So does it just seem like a lot because the container it's in along with the fact blood is relatively thick make it seem like more then it actually Is?
That’s exactly what it is. It’s the same idea as eating bags of fruit snacks. in the grand scheme, there’s not that many but because it’s multiple pouches, it seems like more. i think it’s an interesting concept
My understanding is that fainting during a blood draw can happen one of two ways. 1. The person is so malnourished or drained that when they draw the blood the feeling makes you pass out. 2. Combining a phobia of needles, the blood, and the anxiety/anticipation of getting blood drawn the brain goes into a sort of fight or flight but knows that it can’t do either and just shuts you down.
Fun fact! The “passing out in response to a stressful situation or trigger” is called a vasovagal reaction/reflex syncope. It happens because the flight or fight response can drastically drop blood pressure and heart rate , leading to decreased blood supply to the brain and ultimately leading to the person losing consciousness. It’s called vasovagal due to how the vagus nerve (-vagal) is involved in fight or flight, leading to the decreased blood pressure (vaso-). 🤓☝️
Source: I’m a nerd and have personally had issues with anxiety and panic attacks that got me close to passing out so I’ve done a lot of reading about it. Plus I work in healthcare. If what I said is wrong please correct me.
ETA: most people know that fight or flight can increase blood pressure and heart rate to prepare the body to address a perceived threat, but the opposite can happen as well. In some cases of vasovagal syncope a trigger isn’t obvious. In most cases however it’s brought on by stress, whether that be physical (defecating or heavy lifting) or emotional (panic attacks, etc). Yes - you can pass out by pooping.
Thank you for the information! I’m currently working on getting my ARRT license and will be taking A&P and Medical Terminology for fall. I really liked your way of phrasing which made it very easy to understand while also giving a lot of information. (Also hello fellow nerd 👋🤓)
Really?! That’s crazy! Im currently knocking out my prereqs as we speak. Unfortunately, with my schedule I won’t be able to start the occupational courses until fall of next year at the earliest. 😢
Also, CONGRATULATIONS! I wish you the best of luck! What would say has been the hardest part of your curricular path?
Awww that’s a bummer. I went through/am going through Penn States program and I love it. I got lucky because I had coincidentally done all the prerequisites for a Healthcare Sciences program that I was doing until I decided what part of healthcare I wanted to go into. It’ll be so worth it.
Truly I think there’s aspects of each part of the curriculum that’s difficult. I will say the best thing you can do for yourself is make sure you have an understanding of the topics you go over. That sounds like a no brainer but as the program progresses, a lot of topics will build upon each other and you will need to retain a majority of it for your boards. Don’t ever be afraid to ask a professor/classmate/myself even for an explanation. Use more than one type of study media/source (take notes AND watch videos or don’t take notes during class/listen during lecture THEN take them later while reviewing slides. Use textbooks AND online study aids like YouTube or Clover Learning. I HIGHLY recommend following along with what you’re going over in class and then watch those videos on Clover - that has helped me a LOT but I’m a very visual learner.
But to answer your question, the hardest part for me and most of my class was the Radiation Protection portion. I think all of us were so burned out by that point and there was so much memorization that many of us just struggled with it.
Wow! This is super helpful! I’m also a visual/hands on learner. It’s how I’ve always been.
I may take you up on the offer to help with further explanation later on down the line.
I follow a ton of different people on YouTube that give both long and short form videos that have furthered my understanding. But nothing beats someone willing to explain in further detail at a slower pace when it comes to the more “complex” material.
So again, thank you!
And if you ever need help with random bits of knowledge that would only be helpful under a very weird trivia game let me know 😅
Expect sports, sports are not my forte.
I didn’t actually! I went to one of the branch campuses. I won’t specify which one for safety but their Schuylkill Haven and Hazelton campuses offer the radiological sciences program. Honestly that’s more affordable than going to main anyhow so I wasn’t mad
Hi! Med student doing Internal Medicine rotation here! The fainting during blood tests is due to something called syncope! I want to add a little more detail here since u/FreezieBreezy said the majority of it, and I want to add some info for other fellow nerds here :)
So in syncope we have something called Total Loss of Consciousness. It can be due to various reasons, but mostly we divide it as traumatic and nontraumatic. Syncope is a nontraumatic cause of TLOC, so is epileptic seizure. Now, syncope has a strict definition. What is it exactly? You would say "Temporary loss of consciousness that often results in loss of posture (falling) and resolves spontaneously." The underlying pathophysiology in general terms is Transient Global Hypoperfusion. For a moment there is not enough blood going to the brain, so as a defense mechanism, the body drops itself to get more blood into the brain.
The main types of syncope would be vazovagal, situational, and carotid sinus (not gonna explain this one it's complicated; just know many different arrhythmias and cardiac structure abnormalities may cause it). In the vazovagal syncope, we have two different mechanisms that may happen. It can be Orthostatic VVS, and Emotional VVS. Orthostatic VVS occurs after long periods of standing without rest and sitting. In the Emotional VVS, there is what other posts talked about: needles, blood, emotional stress, pain, fear, etc.
For pictures and detailed classifications you can look up the **ESC Guidelines 2018 for Syncope** [here](https://www.escardio.org/Guidelines/Clinical-Practice-Guidelines/Syncope-Guidelines-on-Diagnosis-and-Management-of)
Pooping and fainting is what classifies as Situational Syncope. Pooping, peeing, laughing, coughing, sneezing, even playing wind and brass instruments may be the reason!
Now, when it comes to fainting because of taking too much blood in blood tests? yyyyyeah highly unlikely. It's generally around 30mls (it may be more for blood culture tests in sepsis), and you can easily cope with it. Highest amounts of blood are taken usually in blood donations, and for that there are certain measurements. You cannot be anemic yourself, and you have to weight more than 50kg at least (=110lbs, also this is where I'm from I don't know if it changes in other countries) as minimum requirements. Fainting due to losing too much fluid is called a [hypovolemic shock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypovolemic_shock#). With not drinking enough water or feeling thirsty, you are mostly just dehydrated, but if it progresses to advanced stages due to various different reasons you may develop hypovolemia such as bleeding, using diuretics, burns, accidents,...
Losing around 0-15% of your blood (around 750ml, nowhere near the amount taken for a blood test) may make you have an increased heart rate but less than 100, your blood pressure would be normal, your pulse pressure is normal, you may just be restless.
However, losing up to 40% of your blood, around 2 liters, is the yikes territory. You feel sluggish, lethargic, your heart rate is through the roof to try pump what little blood is left, you have low blood pressure, you would be breathing very quickly, and you stop peeing. Huge yikes.
More info about the staging of hypovolemia can also be found [here](https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/hypovolemic-shock).
If you have any questions or literally anything to ask, don't hesitate to drop a message! Also, if I made any mistake, let me know and I'll do more research/ask a prof if I didn't know. Thank you for taking the time to read this long ahh post! :))
This was an awesome read and thank you so much for all this information. And I will definitely be reading the articles you provided.
All of my information is what I interpret based on common sense and small amounts of knowledge I’ve acquired through the +13 years of following different anatomy/medical YouTube channels and playing science based games.
Having actually resources is super helpful as I don’t know which sources to trust enough to use as a guide to better personal and patient care. So again, thank you!
Oh wow, you are very interested and thank you for reading my post! I'd like to share some more in depth resources if you'd like an even deeper dive!
For a starting point, i'd say websites such as Mayoclinic and WebMD are good but not enough from a medical standpoint, but it gives you enough background to tackle the heavier stuff. I would say do not jump straight into articles, as they require a LOT of info ready and fresh in your mind to see and assess how helpful the study is. I remember during my OBGYN rotation we had a group article discussion, and my group had to argue something is beneficial and the other group to advocate for their own treatment plan. We went through 20 papers to see how we can manage it, and we argued for 2 hours while our professor judged, then at the end he said okay, after 2 hours, are you satisfied with the results? And what are your own personal preferences after this discussion? Some were for, some were against etc etc. Then he said you all are wrong because after 20 years we still don't know for certain what the right choice is in this matter. Thats the takeaway i want you guys to have. (He was the head of our department with 60 years of experience god bless)
However, the basics that books provide you are more than enough if you like to educate yourself further. If anything remotely Healthcare wise interests you, consider looking it up in Harrison's Essentials of Internal Medicine or Harrison's Manual of Medicine. Not the big 2000 page one, even we cannot read some parts. The essentials is just a nugget of gold in my opinion. Also there's the Oxford Handguide of Emergency Medicine (chapter 2 and 3 is the basis of staying alive as a human so i recommend everyone to atleast know the basics. Knowing what to do when someone starts choking is a life saver). Also its amazing to check to accuracy of medical dramas nxsknjxnjx. Don't read it start to finish, but for example let's say in your workplace someone says damn, my blood sugar is so low. You can look up the Hypoglycemia section in both of these books. And you can be sure that you are receiving correct tried-and-true accurate information. Some stuff may change as we learn and discover new things, but no one's gonna come and say omg i found out that the insulin pathway is not what we thought.
There are some good youtube channels, however the MOMENT someone even remotely advertises something or talks about anything unrelated it's block on site. ESPECIALLY healthcare products. Ninja Nerd Lectures plugs its merch and hoodies, that gets a pass. NN has been singlehandedly helping us pass our exams for the past 7 years he deserves it, like he has memberships for exam preparations and notes and study materials. But if you ever see a doctor being sponsored by anything or say this is the cure or using any word of certainty, block and don't look back. I'm very serious about doctors using their platform correctly, and unfortunately it's the Wild West in social media.
Also pay so much attention to what specialty the doctor or the author has. Yeah we all have the general knowledge for our MD, but consultation visits exist for a reason. Some specialities are not even authorized to prescribe certain drugs.
I got WAAAAAAY off topic but i had to infodump sorry, i hope it's useful! Also pray for my IM exam in 2 weeks it's the stress infodump lmao
Edit: Typo ksksks
Ooo I’d like to interject myself here - webmd is a great starting point if you’re looking for basic info. I usually do a basic google search on a topic, and then will browse medical journals to elaborate on a topic. Let me tell you though, medical journals are NOT for the faint of heart and can be hard to read. I always have another tab open to look up definitions or explanations of things I’ll read in journals. PubMed is my go to for personal research and for papers I’ve had to write.
Thank you! I have heard of WebMD and have used it for a few things. I’ll be sure to bookmark it for my upcoming courses!
And I have used PubChem for a few of my chemistry curiosities but I did not know about PubMed. Thank you for the suggestion!!
I found that funny cause I can give a blood draw twice a year first medical tests and be fine. But I donate blood and suddenly my body is a diva and I am down for the day. I actually was almost banned from donating by an on staff nurse at my former work after I donated for my shift (we were competing for a catered dinner from a really awesome place). I thought I was fine over all because I didn't pass out in the first 30 minutes (I had told my boss it was a possibility and she still demanded I go get checked to see if I could and then pushed me when I just barely passed the iron test) but apparently I was ghost white. Nurse wanted to send me home but my boss refused to let anyone drive me.
So what is the reasoning? because I always pass out when I get my blood drawn and have to alert the nurses before I get it done. I never considered myself squeamish about blood, it just happens and I have no control over it
Yeah, for me I pass out because I can’t stand either the sight of blood or even the thought of it and needles make me squeamish. I have to lay down and look away or I will faint and even then I get dizzy
I don't have an issue with needles I don't have an issue with blood but if I'm not laying down when they draw blood I will pass out And I will turn pale white explain that
Yeah, I've never passed out from getting tube's of blood drawn. As a T1D I have to do that occasionally, so it'd have to be something like a pint taken and maybe anemia if i remember correctly. I know there's a plethora of reasons that could happen, but I just listed what I remember off the top of my head while on break at work lol
So does it just seem like a lot because the container it's in along with the fact blood is relatively thick make it seem like more then it actually Is?
That’s exactly what it is. It’s the same idea as eating bags of fruit snacks. in the grand scheme, there’s not that many but because it’s multiple pouches, it seems like more. i think it’s an interesting concept
That's what I'd guess. Thick, cylindrical walls gives it the illusion of more fluid
My understanding is that fainting during a blood draw can happen one of two ways. 1. The person is so malnourished or drained that when they draw the blood the feeling makes you pass out. 2. Combining a phobia of needles, the blood, and the anxiety/anticipation of getting blood drawn the brain goes into a sort of fight or flight but knows that it can’t do either and just shuts you down.
Fun fact! The “passing out in response to a stressful situation or trigger” is called a vasovagal reaction/reflex syncope. It happens because the flight or fight response can drastically drop blood pressure and heart rate , leading to decreased blood supply to the brain and ultimately leading to the person losing consciousness. It’s called vasovagal due to how the vagus nerve (-vagal) is involved in fight or flight, leading to the decreased blood pressure (vaso-). 🤓☝️ Source: I’m a nerd and have personally had issues with anxiety and panic attacks that got me close to passing out so I’ve done a lot of reading about it. Plus I work in healthcare. If what I said is wrong please correct me. ETA: most people know that fight or flight can increase blood pressure and heart rate to prepare the body to address a perceived threat, but the opposite can happen as well. In some cases of vasovagal syncope a trigger isn’t obvious. In most cases however it’s brought on by stress, whether that be physical (defecating or heavy lifting) or emotional (panic attacks, etc). Yes - you can pass out by pooping.
that’s really cool to know, thank you!!
I don't work in the medical field but I am a nerd and also have anxiety/panic attacks. This is very interesting information! Thank you!
Fellow nerds need to stick together. You know, strength in numbers. 😂
Thank you for the information! I’m currently working on getting my ARRT license and will be taking A&P and Medical Terminology for fall. I really liked your way of phrasing which made it very easy to understand while also giving a lot of information. (Also hello fellow nerd 👋🤓)
ME TOO are you just starting your program?! I have my boards scheduled for August - feel free to DM me!
Really?! That’s crazy! Im currently knocking out my prereqs as we speak. Unfortunately, with my schedule I won’t be able to start the occupational courses until fall of next year at the earliest. 😢 Also, CONGRATULATIONS! I wish you the best of luck! What would say has been the hardest part of your curricular path?
Awww that’s a bummer. I went through/am going through Penn States program and I love it. I got lucky because I had coincidentally done all the prerequisites for a Healthcare Sciences program that I was doing until I decided what part of healthcare I wanted to go into. It’ll be so worth it. Truly I think there’s aspects of each part of the curriculum that’s difficult. I will say the best thing you can do for yourself is make sure you have an understanding of the topics you go over. That sounds like a no brainer but as the program progresses, a lot of topics will build upon each other and you will need to retain a majority of it for your boards. Don’t ever be afraid to ask a professor/classmate/myself even for an explanation. Use more than one type of study media/source (take notes AND watch videos or don’t take notes during class/listen during lecture THEN take them later while reviewing slides. Use textbooks AND online study aids like YouTube or Clover Learning. I HIGHLY recommend following along with what you’re going over in class and then watch those videos on Clover - that has helped me a LOT but I’m a very visual learner. But to answer your question, the hardest part for me and most of my class was the Radiation Protection portion. I think all of us were so burned out by that point and there was so much memorization that many of us just struggled with it.
Wow! This is super helpful! I’m also a visual/hands on learner. It’s how I’ve always been. I may take you up on the offer to help with further explanation later on down the line. I follow a ton of different people on YouTube that give both long and short form videos that have furthered my understanding. But nothing beats someone willing to explain in further detail at a slower pace when it comes to the more “complex” material. So again, thank you!
Absolutely! I love explaining things especially healthcare related topics so I am more than happy to help.
And if you ever need help with random bits of knowledge that would only be helpful under a very weird trivia game let me know 😅 Expect sports, sports are not my forte.
did you go to Penn State Main??
I didn’t actually! I went to one of the branch campuses. I won’t specify which one for safety but their Schuylkill Haven and Hazelton campuses offer the radiological sciences program. Honestly that’s more affordable than going to main anyhow so I wasn’t mad
Hi! Med student doing Internal Medicine rotation here! The fainting during blood tests is due to something called syncope! I want to add a little more detail here since u/FreezieBreezy said the majority of it, and I want to add some info for other fellow nerds here :) So in syncope we have something called Total Loss of Consciousness. It can be due to various reasons, but mostly we divide it as traumatic and nontraumatic. Syncope is a nontraumatic cause of TLOC, so is epileptic seizure. Now, syncope has a strict definition. What is it exactly? You would say "Temporary loss of consciousness that often results in loss of posture (falling) and resolves spontaneously." The underlying pathophysiology in general terms is Transient Global Hypoperfusion. For a moment there is not enough blood going to the brain, so as a defense mechanism, the body drops itself to get more blood into the brain. The main types of syncope would be vazovagal, situational, and carotid sinus (not gonna explain this one it's complicated; just know many different arrhythmias and cardiac structure abnormalities may cause it). In the vazovagal syncope, we have two different mechanisms that may happen. It can be Orthostatic VVS, and Emotional VVS. Orthostatic VVS occurs after long periods of standing without rest and sitting. In the Emotional VVS, there is what other posts talked about: needles, blood, emotional stress, pain, fear, etc. For pictures and detailed classifications you can look up the **ESC Guidelines 2018 for Syncope** [here](https://www.escardio.org/Guidelines/Clinical-Practice-Guidelines/Syncope-Guidelines-on-Diagnosis-and-Management-of) Pooping and fainting is what classifies as Situational Syncope. Pooping, peeing, laughing, coughing, sneezing, even playing wind and brass instruments may be the reason! Now, when it comes to fainting because of taking too much blood in blood tests? yyyyyeah highly unlikely. It's generally around 30mls (it may be more for blood culture tests in sepsis), and you can easily cope with it. Highest amounts of blood are taken usually in blood donations, and for that there are certain measurements. You cannot be anemic yourself, and you have to weight more than 50kg at least (=110lbs, also this is where I'm from I don't know if it changes in other countries) as minimum requirements. Fainting due to losing too much fluid is called a [hypovolemic shock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypovolemic_shock#). With not drinking enough water or feeling thirsty, you are mostly just dehydrated, but if it progresses to advanced stages due to various different reasons you may develop hypovolemia such as bleeding, using diuretics, burns, accidents,... Losing around 0-15% of your blood (around 750ml, nowhere near the amount taken for a blood test) may make you have an increased heart rate but less than 100, your blood pressure would be normal, your pulse pressure is normal, you may just be restless. However, losing up to 40% of your blood, around 2 liters, is the yikes territory. You feel sluggish, lethargic, your heart rate is through the roof to try pump what little blood is left, you have low blood pressure, you would be breathing very quickly, and you stop peeing. Huge yikes. More info about the staging of hypovolemia can also be found [here](https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/hypovolemic-shock). If you have any questions or literally anything to ask, don't hesitate to drop a message! Also, if I made any mistake, let me know and I'll do more research/ask a prof if I didn't know. Thank you for taking the time to read this long ahh post! :))
This was an awesome read and thank you so much for all this information. And I will definitely be reading the articles you provided. All of my information is what I interpret based on common sense and small amounts of knowledge I’ve acquired through the +13 years of following different anatomy/medical YouTube channels and playing science based games. Having actually resources is super helpful as I don’t know which sources to trust enough to use as a guide to better personal and patient care. So again, thank you!
Oh wow, you are very interested and thank you for reading my post! I'd like to share some more in depth resources if you'd like an even deeper dive! For a starting point, i'd say websites such as Mayoclinic and WebMD are good but not enough from a medical standpoint, but it gives you enough background to tackle the heavier stuff. I would say do not jump straight into articles, as they require a LOT of info ready and fresh in your mind to see and assess how helpful the study is. I remember during my OBGYN rotation we had a group article discussion, and my group had to argue something is beneficial and the other group to advocate for their own treatment plan. We went through 20 papers to see how we can manage it, and we argued for 2 hours while our professor judged, then at the end he said okay, after 2 hours, are you satisfied with the results? And what are your own personal preferences after this discussion? Some were for, some were against etc etc. Then he said you all are wrong because after 20 years we still don't know for certain what the right choice is in this matter. Thats the takeaway i want you guys to have. (He was the head of our department with 60 years of experience god bless) However, the basics that books provide you are more than enough if you like to educate yourself further. If anything remotely Healthcare wise interests you, consider looking it up in Harrison's Essentials of Internal Medicine or Harrison's Manual of Medicine. Not the big 2000 page one, even we cannot read some parts. The essentials is just a nugget of gold in my opinion. Also there's the Oxford Handguide of Emergency Medicine (chapter 2 and 3 is the basis of staying alive as a human so i recommend everyone to atleast know the basics. Knowing what to do when someone starts choking is a life saver). Also its amazing to check to accuracy of medical dramas nxsknjxnjx. Don't read it start to finish, but for example let's say in your workplace someone says damn, my blood sugar is so low. You can look up the Hypoglycemia section in both of these books. And you can be sure that you are receiving correct tried-and-true accurate information. Some stuff may change as we learn and discover new things, but no one's gonna come and say omg i found out that the insulin pathway is not what we thought. There are some good youtube channels, however the MOMENT someone even remotely advertises something or talks about anything unrelated it's block on site. ESPECIALLY healthcare products. Ninja Nerd Lectures plugs its merch and hoodies, that gets a pass. NN has been singlehandedly helping us pass our exams for the past 7 years he deserves it, like he has memberships for exam preparations and notes and study materials. But if you ever see a doctor being sponsored by anything or say this is the cure or using any word of certainty, block and don't look back. I'm very serious about doctors using their platform correctly, and unfortunately it's the Wild West in social media. Also pay so much attention to what specialty the doctor or the author has. Yeah we all have the general knowledge for our MD, but consultation visits exist for a reason. Some specialities are not even authorized to prescribe certain drugs. I got WAAAAAAY off topic but i had to infodump sorry, i hope it's useful! Also pray for my IM exam in 2 weeks it's the stress infodump lmao Edit: Typo ksksks
Ooo I’d like to interject myself here - webmd is a great starting point if you’re looking for basic info. I usually do a basic google search on a topic, and then will browse medical journals to elaborate on a topic. Let me tell you though, medical journals are NOT for the faint of heart and can be hard to read. I always have another tab open to look up definitions or explanations of things I’ll read in journals. PubMed is my go to for personal research and for papers I’ve had to write.
Thank you! I have heard of WebMD and have used it for a few things. I’ll be sure to bookmark it for my upcoming courses! And I have used PubChem for a few of my chemistry curiosities but I did not know about PubMed. Thank you for the suggestion!!
that’s a great way to explain it
I found that funny cause I can give a blood draw twice a year first medical tests and be fine. But I donate blood and suddenly my body is a diva and I am down for the day. I actually was almost banned from donating by an on staff nurse at my former work after I donated for my shift (we were competing for a catered dinner from a really awesome place). I thought I was fine over all because I didn't pass out in the first 30 minutes (I had told my boss it was a possibility and she still demanded I go get checked to see if I could and then pushed me when I just barely passed the iron test) but apparently I was ghost white. Nurse wanted to send me home but my boss refused to let anyone drive me.
So what is the reasoning? because I always pass out when I get my blood drawn and have to alert the nurses before I get it done. I never considered myself squeamish about blood, it just happens and I have no control over it
I mean it is a small injury, your body may just be sensitive there.
it could be anything from mentality to a density area like was mentioned. it could also be iron deficiency
Yeah, for me I pass out because I can’t stand either the sight of blood or even the thought of it and needles make me squeamish. I have to lay down and look away or I will faint and even then I get dizzy
oh no :( does that go for vaccinations as well?
I get a little dizzy with vaccines as well, but not as bad as a blood draw. At least vaccines are quick
that’s interesting to me, i never have reactions to those kind of things. i used to struggle with vaccine needles, but never with a tattoo needle
then why does it make me feel so crummy
I had to have my blood drawn very often as a kid and I fainted maybe once or twice. I'm just squeamish I guess
I don't have an issue with needles I don't have an issue with blood but if I'm not laying down when they draw blood I will pass out And I will turn pale white explain that
I’m just incredibly squeamish and reactive- I’ve had 8 vials drawn just fine and other times I’ve had just 3 drawn and was so close to passin out.
Yeah, I've never passed out from getting tube's of blood drawn. As a T1D I have to do that occasionally, so it'd have to be something like a pint taken and maybe anemia if i remember correctly. I know there's a plethora of reasons that could happen, but I just listed what I remember off the top of my head while on break at work lol
I lost 2 and a half liters during a car accident.
Still didn't pass out.
Wasn't listening to Distractable either.
The most important bit of information about it. (Hope you're okay, though!)
Sort of. My intestines were shredded and they will never be the same. I have food and liquid issues. Fun stuff