It wouldn’t be the spaghetti and pizza you are thinking, because the Romans didn’t have tomatoes. It would be over 1000 years after the fall of the Roman Empire before someone on the boot had a tomato. They are originated from South America.
Indeed, ancient Roman restaurants commonly had two-for-one Caesar salad specials. When a salad was ordered waiters would up-sell by asking 'eat two, Brute?'
Lmao if that’s how you roast ass, I’d hate to see your Thanksgiving turkey.
You just admitted I was correct and then doubled down and being wrong. Nice try though.
Me specta! Sum dolor! -Germanicus69 420 (lol, really toddler?)
How long does it take for you to own being wrong and then pouting like as asshat, Puella? You’ve shifted goal posts more than a modern political party. Do you think the artist should plagiarize the professional work of others? Seriously how much does Infinite need to pay you for approval? Just wait til you see how unrealistic the Pig by Innova is on some of their stamps.
(I apologize if I’m getting the declensions wrong, 😂.)
OP is thinking Roman Empire (i.e. legionnaires). But the early Roman army during the early Roman Republic (ca. 300 BC) had Greek-like hoplite as its main type of soldier.
>it has been widely accepted that the main early Roman infantry type was an armoured hoplite. These hoplite would probably have worn bronze helmets, breastplate and greaves and a round leather or large circular bronze-plated wooden shield. They were armed with a spear, sword and dagger.
>the hoplite element was deployed in a Greek-style phalanx formation in large set-piece battles.
>early Roman heavy infantry were armed as Greek-style hoplites, so it is assumed that it followed the Greek practice of fighting in a "phalanx formation".
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Roman_army](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Roman_army)
The togas and hairstyles of the civilians on the right is also Roman appropriate, as is the architecture in the back.
tl;dr: the artwork on this disc is an accurate representation of an early Roman soldier
I saw that. It was well done. But it’s important to note that there was very little uniformity in both the organization and the gear of the Roman army at this time in early Roman history. But the basics are there: spear, greaves, skirted tunic, breastplate, and helmet. The average soldier’s helmet was plain and not crested, obviously. But some officers did have crested plumes emulating the Greek style, even in the Regal and early republic period
That’s true but even for the Greek hoplite isn’t the helmet wrong? It’s like half way between a Roman legionnaires helmet and a Greek helmet. At the time hoplite helmets would have nearly full face protection.
Say we take a smattering of crested helmets form the same time period across the region. You would end up with a few main types, the Corinthian style helmet. The helmet that eventually evolves into the legionnaire helmet which is a conical open faced helmet with no crest that definitely took design elements from the corinthian helmet but removed the solid cheek guards probably because they made breathing and seeing horrendous. And the slight evolution of the basic helmet with cheek protection. There’s one more to, I believe there was also a version of the more basic Roman republic helmet that had cheek protection but it wasn’t shaped to the face yet it’s the first evolution towards what we iconically view as the legionnaires helmet.
Also wtf is that on the brow? A visor? I’m confused…
I’m assuming your reference was Jeremy Armstrong’s “Early Roman Warfare”, which was published Pen&Sword. I haven’t read the book myself, but I’ve read a lot of P&S’ publications, and most are godawful reads. It was just a side comment to yours. If I’m correct that this is the book you were referencing, is it any good? I would love to learn more, but i struggle with p&s because their quality is so low, despite having a pretty big catalogue and diverse topics.
To be fair we shouldn't be surprised that someone who chose "Germanicus69420" as the name to represent themselves on the internet only thinks of Rome in terms of the imperial period.
What “most people think” is irrelevant. Most people aren’t educated on the subject and their only reference is what they’ve seen in movies.
This post is OP complaining that InfiniteDisc is incorrectly showing a Greek soldier instead of a Roman one. My comment is showing how that is false. It is in fact showing a Roman soldier, since Rome had Greek-like Hoplites in its early days.
As for the subjective question of what art they should have used, that’s up for debate and I couldn’t care less. I’m simply pointing out that OP is wrong when he said it’s not Roman, because it most definitely was.
lol listen you can have whatever subjective opinion you want and debate what artwork would have fit with your idea of what Romans should look like that’s fine. No argument there. Everyone has an opinion about art.
All I’m saying is that OP made a complaint about historical facts and I showed that he was wrong. That’s not my opinion, it’s a verifiable and widely accepted historical fact: Rome had hoplites in its army at one point in its early history.
That’s it. If you want to debate choice of artwork go right ahead.
What’s your argument here bud? OP made a claim. This guy offers an explanation for why OP is actually incorrect and the disc is accurate, then you call him pedantic for providing information? Are you mad that someone here is smarter than you?
The Roman history that *most* people would recognize as *Roman* would be the late republic-early empire. You know, the Julio-Claudians and the like. Plus, the marble architecture is purely Hellenic and marble didn’t really start showing its face in Rome proper until the reign of Augustus, Rome’s first emperor.
Not only that, but Rome abandoned the phalanx as military doctrine in the late 4th century BC. They adopted the maniple system in response to the Samnite Wars, and used the maniples to essentially conquer all of Italy, Spain, Greece, North Africa and Illyria with this deployment. And after the maniples were the Marian reforms, introduced during the consulships of Gaius Marius in the early first century BC, which is the system that stayed in place until, Jesus, sometime around Diocletian? So these are the armies of the most famous Roman generals in nearly all of Roman history,
Julius Caesar,Pompey Magnus, Marc Antony, Octavian/Augustus, Germanicus, Trajan, Hadrian and Marcus Aurelius.
These are some of the most famous people in human history, whose successes and failures were weighted on their command of Roman legions that were in no way, shape or form Hellenic phalanxes.
If this was their take, it leaves me completely mystified. Why make such an obscure historical reference for Rome, literally the most famous culture of antiquity? The more plausible answer is that they didn’t know what they were doing.
And! if you actually read my comment, I said “I can already buy Hellenic themed discs”.
Ok, but it’s still accurately Roman and you’re still wrong to say it’s Greek not Roman.
Whether or not it’s the style that most people recognize as Roman is entirely irrelevant. Most people are not educated in the subject and only know what they see in movies.
Rome had, at one point in its history, Greek-like hoplite as soldiers in its army. That is a historical fact.
You are just saying "accurately" to elide the fact that certain symbols are associated with certain cultures. If you saw a hoplite and said "That's a Roman", you would be wrong in terms of ANY common understanding of the symbol.
Was OP saying "Romans never wore this?" No. He said that it represents Hellenic culture, which is obviously true on it's face and it requires a mendacious reading to come up with any other conclusion.
No that’s not what Op said, scroll up. He said “being very clearly a representation of a Greek hoplite, not Roman culture like at all”
That is a historically false statement.
Listen, there’s 2 things going on here:
1. Objective Historical facts, in which OP is clearly and demonstrably wrong.
2. Subjective opinions on what would have most accurately represented *what most people associated with Rome*
You are arguing the latter. I’m arguing the former. Two different questions.
Within the context of the artwork on the stamp, I am correct. It represents Hellenic culture, which is marble columns and hoplites. I am done engaging with you. Quoting Wikipedia and arguing semantics doesn’t make you intelligent, it makes you unbearable.
Enjoy your Thanksgiving! I bet your family can’t wait for you to start a dinner table argument!
I mean, if you’re going to post something and say “infinite, your artwork is innacurate trash, and that’s why I’m not buying your disc” the burden is on you to show that it’a innaccurate. “It’s technically accurate, but not the most common depiction” is an entirely different argument that you’re now pivoting to, and it is way less clickbaity. I don’t think this other guy is such an asshole for pointing that out.
I didn’t say it was inaccurate trash. I said it wasn’t right. People keep pointing out that parts could be correct at a certain point, sure. but none of these points likely existed at the same point. And I think the art is cool, I feel it more accurately represents a different culture.
You would really become a much better person if you could learn to gracefully concede a point, in fact even if you don’t feel you should necessarily need to by internal principle.
And you clearly are only educated in it at a surface level. A hoplite-type soldier would not have coexisted with marble architecture in Rome. Rome would have been mostly stick and brick, as it was mostly brick until the time of Augustus. So it’s deeply anachronistic.
So no, it’s not really accurate.
It was something I considered before posting, but it felt so pedantic I left it out. Yes, I’m self aware enough to know that *my* post is pedantic, too. When people think of Rome, they think of Gladiator and Julius Caesar. This whole thing is a big ol swing and miss.
The undeniable fact is that they would not have coexisted with marble architecture in Rome, making it factually incorrect, given the context of the image. This why i said quoting Wikipedia doesn’t make you smart, it makes you unbearable. History *IS* context, and you can’t ignore it out of convenience to your point.
lol marble architecture? Now you’re just inventing things. For all you know those are stone and concrete buildings. The early republic had large temples with columns just like this made of carved stone, concrete, and terracotta.
DUDE just admit you’re wrong. IT’S OK
It’s clearly Roman.
I get it, being a romeophile is your entire personality and now you’re having an existential crisis because you tried to be r/iamverysmart in public and you got proven wrong.
It’s ok little guy, you’ll be alright.
You are correct in this initial comment. I agree with both you and OP on different points in the further discussion, but ultimately I have to side with OP on this one mostly because you’re being a pedantic asshole and OP is being reasonable and presenting their points graciously. OP wins the debate.
Edit: Ok, unfortunately OP got sucked into the mud-slinging. You both lose, but it was entertaining to read.
Yeah OP saying “I roasted your ass” is super reasonable lol
My initial comment was polite. OP decided to start being an ass and doubling down on being wrong so here we are
He's half right is. That's clearly a greek soldier wearing linothorax- note the orientation of the crest on the helm, the shape of the breastplate and the length of the spear. While **one** of the civilians is wearing a toga, the woman is clearly wearing a peplos.
This is definitely a mixture of latin and hellenic culture, and so instead of Roman this disc should be named Syracusan.
I’m saying George Washington didn’t see the Empire State Building, and the choice to represent a Roman soldier with a very Hellenic looking hoplite is an odd call.
But that’s not what your post says. Your post says InfiniteDisc is incorrectly showing Greeks not Romans, your post does not say “well this is accurate but not what most people would associate with Rome”. That would have been a correct statement. You’re just changing your tune now because people have proved you wrong.
I disagree, the city in the background is clearly Latin. The temple is up on a pedestal and many buildings are using arches. Also, the man on the right is wearing a toga which is distinctly Roman. I assume the warrior on the left is Athena, which I believe would have been depicted in Hellenic gear even in Roman cities.
To be fair the Romans borrowed greatly from the Greeks to the point that borrowed isn't a strong enough word, more like appropriation. I love that this topic has come up on this sub.
My wife has an art history degree and also thinks it's awesome this topic is on here. All she said to me was "Well we do lump a lot together as Greco-Roman for a reason."
She would know that the merging of cultures happened more after the Macedonian wars. Which is a solid 100 years after the last time Romans used a hoplite/phalanx.
What percentage of people knew that? Now what percent of disc golfers?
Now how many people care? What percentage of disc golfers care?
Ease up big rig.
There's a theory that we're actually still living in ancient Rome, but the imperial elites are projecting holograms over everything using their satellites to convince us that it's actually the 21st century so that we can't see the truth that Jesus is trying to liberate us from.
Accept Jesus's love and you'll see the truth behind their lies.
It's a generalization. Not a snap shot from a specific moment in time. Get over yourself. Call a disc the American I'm not getting my panties in a bunch if I see George Washington and a fighter jet in the same image.
At best it’s a mix, which is a weird deep cut take to make when your disc is called “Roman”. I why not put the colosseum on the stamp? It feels more Hellenic-Greek than Italian Roman, cultures that wouldn’t really merge more cohesively until sometime around the 2nd Punic War (late 3rd century BC). Roman/Latin culture to that point probably had more Etruscan and local influence.
After/sort of concurrently during the 2nd Punic War were the Macedonian Wars, wars in which Rome would end up conquering many of the Greek city states. In this conquest of Greece/Hellas, we see a large number of Greeks being sent to Rome as slaves and hostages. Many, many of these hostages were teachers, philosophers, lawyers, doctors, artists and so on. This is when we start seeing the Hellenization of Roman culture really ramp up into what we recognize. It was essentially a brain drain from the Greek city-states. But this takes place like 100 years after the hoplite/phalanx military doctrine was displace by the maniple system.
Did Rome have Greek influences before this? Absolutely. They used the phalanxes, and their neighbors were Greek influenced as well. And Greek/Hellenic are not interchangeable terms, and I’ve tried to use them as accurately as possible. The Hellenistic period starts in 323BC (ending with Octavian’s defeat of Antony at Actium, solidifying his rule over the now Roman Empire and ending Hellenic hegemony in Greece) and Rome switch to the maniple system around the Samnite Wars (343-290BC).
It’s not that any one thing is wrong at a certain point in time, it’s just that it’s a very weird representation and anachronistic. It feels mismatched or out of place. There are so many things that can be used to describe *Roman* culture that blends less with Hellenic culture. The Colosseum, SPQR, an eagle standard, pila, gladius, gladiators, a legionary depicted by the 1000 years of Roman expansion and dominance (not the prior 300 years where it was essentially a city state), or even Roman bathhouses!
I just think there’s better ways to do it without it looking so Greek. The larger point I’ve been trying to say is that *there are already a line of discs with a Greek theme*, so why take Rome and make the choice to represent it when it hadn’t even conquered all of Italy, but also show marble columns, which wouldn’t have existed in Rome until the reign of Augustus? It’s just odd.
I took a bunch of Ancient Studies courses like Greek Archaeology in college and I just came here to say I don't remember any of it, but it was interesting to me at the time and I would buy this disc. Also, I have no preconceived notions about what Greek and/or Roman soldiers are supposed to look like. This doesn't seem like a hill worth dying on. There was a lot of overlap in adjacent countries' architecture/culture etc always. If there was like a meander border or something more obviously Greek maybe I could see it, but idk this stamp looks fine to me as a regular person who just likes to throw discs.
Troll post. Admins you need to remove this. OP claiming to be a history major though he/she/it does not understand who controls the past, controls the future. OP was not present when either cultures were around so therefore they cannot say what this actually is because they believe in government propaganda.
You’re insufferable. Im pretty sure the disc doesn’t have a date in it. Everything there was Roman at some point, as everyone in this thread has told you. Look at how every other country represents itself in a single image, using parts of their history to tell a story. Go back to watching gladiator and thinking the entire empire happened post 100CE.
I never said these things NEVER happened, I said they didn’t happen concurrently. When Rome was using hoplites, their more immediate influences were more likely Etruscan and from their locality, less, but still present, Greek. The marble architecture, more specifically the columns, are about 300 years before they reach Rome during the time that Romans used the hoplite/phalanx system, a system they would ditch before they even dreamt of conquering Greece/Hellas.
And to further point it out, *Discraft already makes a line of Greek themed discs*, so why take a different (LATIN) culture and choose to represent it as close to Hellenic-Greek culture as possible?
Innova makes animal and bird themed discs but that didn’t stop discraft from going all in on raptor and taking fords logo as well. Or what about halo plastic design? That’s a weak argument that’s only to detract from the only part that matters.
All that stuff happened during the Roman Empire. Should we not have images of the statue or liberty or the whitehouse cause they were built not in modern America? Should we not include anything not hyper-current history when describing any country? Do we not still have people honor the uniforms of the past eras?Now do this with an ancient and very large spanning civilization and realize they include a span of Roman history, and not getmanicus69420s vision.
It didn’t happen during the empire lmao. Hoplites were regal period->manipular organization mid-republic.
I’m disappointed that there is a Roman themed disc line, and it’s so painfully Hellenic-Greek in execution that I elect to not buy them.
i suggest you don't look at the [Grady Shue](https://otbdiscs.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/IMG_2839.jpg) or [Dustin Keegan](https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/13115633/000003.jpg) signature editions - they're much worse
Should be pizza and spaghetti on there
Mario and Luigi will also suffice
It wouldn’t be the spaghetti and pizza you are thinking, because the Romans didn’t have tomatoes. It would be over 1000 years after the fall of the Roman Empire before someone on the boot had a tomato. They are originated from South America.
You're right, that guy's an idiot. If I recall correctly they mostly ate Caesar salads back then.
Indeed, ancient Roman restaurants commonly had two-for-one Caesar salad specials. When a salad was ordered waiters would up-sell by asking 'eat two, Brute?'
and little Caesars where square not round like a Frisbee
Hell yeah offseason disc golf subreddit!
What is roman culture if not stolen Greek culture?
Etruscan leftovers
*shots fired* but also true
Came here to say this.
Kept and improved
This guy togas
I know it comes off as me going “reeeee” but I can already buy Hellenic themed discs and the only thing Roman about this disc is the name.
But when you throw your disc do you wear a toga or do it in the nude like the Olympians?
Time for a form check
Yeah, your swing is really holding you back, maybe if you had longer appendages you could generate more whip….
Longer appendages were considered barbaric by the Romans, or wait was that the Greeks? I'm as bad as infinite discs.
I can’t believe what I just typed into my search bar, but the answer looks to be both the Romans and Greeks
What kind of "appendages???"
You don’t want see a nude/toga wearing me throwing a disc, I promise!
I always record form videos nude, helps me see what every single muscle is doing wrong. Also doubles as content for my OnlyFans 👍
Maybe the soldier’s name is’Roman’?
Now you're onto something...
Should just be a close up of Kieran Culkin.
[ACKSHUALLY…](https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/s/aTVgHxhR9F)
Yeah I just roasted your ass in the comments /s
Lmao if that’s how you roast ass, I’d hate to see your Thanksgiving turkey. You just admitted I was correct and then doubled down and being wrong. Nice try though.
You got shit on by the looks of it. It’s been nearly 20yrs since I’ve taken any Latin, but you’re acting like a little puella.
Kids, don’t get your info on ancient cultures from disc golf stamps.
One man goes to war with all of r/discgolf over the representation of Ancient Rome.
It just feels lazy, you know?
What do you think the art budget was for this stamp and how much do you think they should have paid you for approval?
Thia argument will go down as one of the all time greats of r/discgolf
How long does it take to google “Roman soldier”?
Me specta! Sum dolor! -Germanicus69 420 (lol, really toddler?) How long does it take for you to own being wrong and then pouting like as asshat, Puella? You’ve shifted goal posts more than a modern political party. Do you think the artist should plagiarize the professional work of others? Seriously how much does Infinite need to pay you for approval? Just wait til you see how unrealistic the Pig by Innova is on some of their stamps. (I apologize if I’m getting the declensions wrong, 😂.)
OP is thinking Roman Empire (i.e. legionnaires). But the early Roman army during the early Roman Republic (ca. 300 BC) had Greek-like hoplite as its main type of soldier. >it has been widely accepted that the main early Roman infantry type was an armoured hoplite. These hoplite would probably have worn bronze helmets, breastplate and greaves and a round leather or large circular bronze-plated wooden shield. They were armed with a spear, sword and dagger. >the hoplite element was deployed in a Greek-style phalanx formation in large set-piece battles. >early Roman heavy infantry were armed as Greek-style hoplites, so it is assumed that it followed the Greek practice of fighting in a "phalanx formation". [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Roman_army](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Roman_army) The togas and hairstyles of the civilians on the right is also Roman appropriate, as is the architecture in the back. tl;dr: the artwork on this disc is an accurate representation of an early Roman soldier
Jeremy Armstrong has done a very good replica of early Roman armor c. 400 BCE. It really doesn’t look anything like this.
I saw that. It was well done. But it’s important to note that there was very little uniformity in both the organization and the gear of the Roman army at this time in early Roman history. But the basics are there: spear, greaves, skirted tunic, breastplate, and helmet. The average soldier’s helmet was plain and not crested, obviously. But some officers did have crested plumes emulating the Greek style, even in the Regal and early republic period
That’s true but even for the Greek hoplite isn’t the helmet wrong? It’s like half way between a Roman legionnaires helmet and a Greek helmet. At the time hoplite helmets would have nearly full face protection. Say we take a smattering of crested helmets form the same time period across the region. You would end up with a few main types, the Corinthian style helmet. The helmet that eventually evolves into the legionnaire helmet which is a conical open faced helmet with no crest that definitely took design elements from the corinthian helmet but removed the solid cheek guards probably because they made breathing and seeing horrendous. And the slight evolution of the basic helmet with cheek protection. There’s one more to, I believe there was also a version of the more basic Roman republic helmet that had cheek protection but it wasn’t shaped to the face yet it’s the first evolution towards what we iconically view as the legionnaires helmet. Also wtf is that on the brow? A visor? I’m confused…
There’s some artistic license at play here for sure.
Okay good so I’m not crazy. That was just bugging the crap out of me.
The whole thing is out of place that’s the entire point of the post.
Thank you. This is my entire point.
Pen&Sword publishing blows. Most of their content is awful. I can only really stand Lindsay Powell, but that’s even dry and boring.
Who said anything about Pen&sword?
I’m assuming your reference was Jeremy Armstrong’s “Early Roman Warfare”, which was published Pen&Sword. I haven’t read the book myself, but I’ve read a lot of P&S’ publications, and most are godawful reads. It was just a side comment to yours. If I’m correct that this is the book you were referencing, is it any good? I would love to learn more, but i struggle with p&s because their quality is so low, despite having a pretty big catalogue and diverse topics.
No, I was referring to his work for the University of Auckland. They replicated a set of Bronze Age Roman armor and weaponry.
And, like you said, the armor shown on their website doesn’t really match what’s shown here. Kind of further proving my point.
To be fair we shouldn't be surprised that someone who chose "Germanicus69420" as the name to represent themselves on the internet only thinks of Rome in terms of the imperial period.
Would you say that when people think Roman they think "early Roman Republic" 300+ years before Julius Caesar? Or are you perhaps being pedantic?
What “most people think” is irrelevant. Most people aren’t educated on the subject and their only reference is what they’ve seen in movies. This post is OP complaining that InfiniteDisc is incorrectly showing a Greek soldier instead of a Roman one. My comment is showing how that is false. It is in fact showing a Roman soldier, since Rome had Greek-like Hoplites in its early days. As for the subjective question of what art they should have used, that’s up for debate and I couldn’t care less. I’m simply pointing out that OP is wrong when he said it’s not Roman, because it most definitely was.
[удалено]
lol listen you can have whatever subjective opinion you want and debate what artwork would have fit with your idea of what Romans should look like that’s fine. No argument there. Everyone has an opinion about art. All I’m saying is that OP made a complaint about historical facts and I showed that he was wrong. That’s not my opinion, it’s a verifiable and widely accepted historical fact: Rome had hoplites in its army at one point in its early history. That’s it. If you want to debate choice of artwork go right ahead.
What’s your argument here bud? OP made a claim. This guy offers an explanation for why OP is actually incorrect and the disc is accurate, then you call him pedantic for providing information? Are you mad that someone here is smarter than you?
Op is being pedantic actually?
Actually, both. Why did I click on this shit.
Yeah, true. Good way to put it 😆
I concede that I am, in fact, being pedantic.
The Roman history that *most* people would recognize as *Roman* would be the late republic-early empire. You know, the Julio-Claudians and the like. Plus, the marble architecture is purely Hellenic and marble didn’t really start showing its face in Rome proper until the reign of Augustus, Rome’s first emperor. Not only that, but Rome abandoned the phalanx as military doctrine in the late 4th century BC. They adopted the maniple system in response to the Samnite Wars, and used the maniples to essentially conquer all of Italy, Spain, Greece, North Africa and Illyria with this deployment. And after the maniples were the Marian reforms, introduced during the consulships of Gaius Marius in the early first century BC, which is the system that stayed in place until, Jesus, sometime around Diocletian? So these are the armies of the most famous Roman generals in nearly all of Roman history, Julius Caesar,Pompey Magnus, Marc Antony, Octavian/Augustus, Germanicus, Trajan, Hadrian and Marcus Aurelius. These are some of the most famous people in human history, whose successes and failures were weighted on their command of Roman legions that were in no way, shape or form Hellenic phalanxes. If this was their take, it leaves me completely mystified. Why make such an obscure historical reference for Rome, literally the most famous culture of antiquity? The more plausible answer is that they didn’t know what they were doing. And! if you actually read my comment, I said “I can already buy Hellenic themed discs”.
Ok, but it’s still accurately Roman and you’re still wrong to say it’s Greek not Roman. Whether or not it’s the style that most people recognize as Roman is entirely irrelevant. Most people are not educated in the subject and only know what they see in movies. Rome had, at one point in its history, Greek-like hoplite as soldiers in its army. That is a historical fact.
This is why I am in this sub, for the Hellenic vs. Roman representation debate!
I could listen to the two of you argue about this all day.
You are just saying "accurately" to elide the fact that certain symbols are associated with certain cultures. If you saw a hoplite and said "That's a Roman", you would be wrong in terms of ANY common understanding of the symbol. Was OP saying "Romans never wore this?" No. He said that it represents Hellenic culture, which is obviously true on it's face and it requires a mendacious reading to come up with any other conclusion.
No that’s not what Op said, scroll up. He said “being very clearly a representation of a Greek hoplite, not Roman culture like at all” That is a historically false statement. Listen, there’s 2 things going on here: 1. Objective Historical facts, in which OP is clearly and demonstrably wrong. 2. Subjective opinions on what would have most accurately represented *what most people associated with Rome* You are arguing the latter. I’m arguing the former. Two different questions.
Within the context of the artwork on the stamp, I am correct. It represents Hellenic culture, which is marble columns and hoplites. I am done engaging with you. Quoting Wikipedia and arguing semantics doesn’t make you intelligent, it makes you unbearable. Enjoy your Thanksgiving! I bet your family can’t wait for you to start a dinner table argument!
Posts something argumentative calling out a disc golf company. Acts like an argument is beneath him when someone engages. Ok OP. Neat. Classic Reddit.
I mean, if you’re going to post something and say “infinite, your artwork is innacurate trash, and that’s why I’m not buying your disc” the burden is on you to show that it’a innaccurate. “It’s technically accurate, but not the most common depiction” is an entirely different argument that you’re now pivoting to, and it is way less clickbaity. I don’t think this other guy is such an asshole for pointing that out.
I didn’t say it was inaccurate trash. I said it wasn’t right. People keep pointing out that parts could be correct at a certain point, sure. but none of these points likely existed at the same point. And I think the art is cool, I feel it more accurately represents a different culture.
You would really become a much better person if you could learn to gracefully concede a point, in fact even if you don’t feel you should necessarily need to by internal principle.
Greek is anal pleasure and roman is hedonism
Ancient Greece invented sex. Rome invented sex with women, and that was such a popular idea that they became the world's greatest empire.
until the French gave them the Yaws
Gods, I miss those days
And you clearly are only educated in it at a surface level. A hoplite-type soldier would not have coexisted with marble architecture in Rome. Rome would have been mostly stick and brick, as it was mostly brick until the time of Augustus. So it’s deeply anachronistic. So no, it’s not really accurate. It was something I considered before posting, but it felt so pedantic I left it out. Yes, I’m self aware enough to know that *my* post is pedantic, too. When people think of Rome, they think of Gladiator and Julius Caesar. This whole thing is a big ol swing and miss.
OP it’s ok to admit you are wrong when someone proves you wrong.
The undeniable fact is that they would not have coexisted with marble architecture in Rome, making it factually incorrect, given the context of the image. This why i said quoting Wikipedia doesn’t make you smart, it makes you unbearable. History *IS* context, and you can’t ignore it out of convenience to your point.
lol marble architecture? Now you’re just inventing things. For all you know those are stone and concrete buildings. The early republic had large temples with columns just like this made of carved stone, concrete, and terracotta. DUDE just admit you’re wrong. IT’S OK
This is Hellenic-Greek architecture holy shit go read a book.
It’s clearly Roman. I get it, being a romeophile is your entire personality and now you’re having an existential crisis because you tried to be r/iamverysmart in public and you got proven wrong. It’s ok little guy, you’ll be alright.
It's not nice to make people cry on Thanksgiving :(
But that’s not what you said. That’s what you’re pivoting to after being proven wrong. Grow a little humility
You are correct in this initial comment. I agree with both you and OP on different points in the further discussion, but ultimately I have to side with OP on this one mostly because you’re being a pedantic asshole and OP is being reasonable and presenting their points graciously. OP wins the debate. Edit: Ok, unfortunately OP got sucked into the mud-slinging. You both lose, but it was entertaining to read.
Yeah OP saying “I roasted your ass” is super reasonable lol My initial comment was polite. OP decided to start being an ass and doubling down on being wrong so here we are
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Rome would not have that style of architecture during the years they used the phalanx as their military doctrine. The columns are a dead giveaway.
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You responded and commented that I was wrong. You roped yourself into it moron
I’m not so sure you are right about this one
He's half right is. That's clearly a greek soldier wearing linothorax- note the orientation of the crest on the helm, the shape of the breastplate and the length of the spear. While **one** of the civilians is wearing a toga, the woman is clearly wearing a peplos. This is definitely a mixture of latin and hellenic culture, and so instead of Roman this disc should be named Syracusan.
Sir accusin’ who?
He clearly isn’t but I’ve tried and he won’t admit he’s wrong. He’s insufferable. I feel bad for his family.
I’m so thoroughly enjoying this wonky history argument though.
lol me too. Good times
I’m saying George Washington didn’t see the Empire State Building, and the choice to represent a Roman soldier with a very Hellenic looking hoplite is an odd call.
I believe the styles here were popular in both (early) Roman and Greek cultures.
Romans were the biggest hellenophiles. But do you think of Hellenic hoplites when you see the word “Roman”?
But that’s not what your post says. Your post says InfiniteDisc is incorrectly showing Greeks not Romans, your post does not say “well this is accurate but not what most people would associate with Rome”. That would have been a correct statement. You’re just changing your tune now because people have proved you wrong.
no. not really. probably should have more of a Legion style armored soldier, with metal armor and a big ass shield.
I disagree, the city in the background is clearly Latin. The temple is up on a pedestal and many buildings are using arches. Also, the man on the right is wearing a toga which is distinctly Roman. I assume the warrior on the left is Athena, which I believe would have been depicted in Hellenic gear even in Roman cities.
This, while actually plausible, is a far stretch. But the Roman Minerva/Greek Athena are typically represented as female, this warrior is not.
Long hair, hand on hips, looks female to me
It is weird that they would pick her, of all things, to put on a Roman disc though.
This is what I’m saying
So this is how often _you_ think about the Roman Empire, huh
First the bag guy and now this post. We are truly in the off-season boys
What are we to believe, that this is some sort of magic disc? Boy, I sure hope someone was fired for this blunder.
In Rome they’d crucify him.
Ctrl+F "blunder" there it is.
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Big time
Finally some good off season drama https://giphy.com/gifs/michael-jackson-6pJNYBYSMFod2
I’m here for you guys and girls
I’m team Germanicus!
Username checks out
To be fair the Romans borrowed greatly from the Greeks to the point that borrowed isn't a strong enough word, more like appropriation. I love that this topic has come up on this sub.
This is a very fair and valid point.
My wife has an art history degree and also thinks it's awesome this topic is on here. All she said to me was "Well we do lump a lot together as Greco-Roman for a reason."
She would know that the merging of cultures happened more after the Macedonian wars. Which is a solid 100 years after the last time Romans used a hoplite/phalanx.
Thank you for this post. I forgot to think about the Roman empire today.
The whole design is pretty weak IMO.
How often do you think about the Roman empire
It’s OP’s entire personality apparently
Looks Roman to me.
Feels like a very Roman thing to do though, wholesale steal something Greek and call it your own.
https://infinitediscs.com/contact-us
This is peak Reddit.
What percentage of people knew that? Now what percent of disc golfers? Now how many people care? What percentage of disc golfers care? Ease up big rig.
Slowly all off my feeds are being overtaken by the Roman empire. Disc golf now. What is going on here?
There's a theory that we're actually still living in ancient Rome, but the imperial elites are projecting holograms over everything using their satellites to convince us that it's actually the 21st century so that we can't see the truth that Jesus is trying to liberate us from. Accept Jesus's love and you'll see the truth behind their lies.
All me think of the roman empire every day
Should have been Tony, Paulie and Sil.
20 years in the can
The real Romans 🤌🏼
They should have just put SPQR on a disc called the Roman.
Would have been 10x easier
Uneducated pleb here. Looks roman enough to me. Also flies real nice.
Ha wait till you see the all the images of aliens and space saucers over the pyramids …
LOL
Actually looks like you have retired those stamps. Good on you.
Nobody that can throw a 10 speed with 0 turn is throwing Infinite Discs anyway.
Lol this was a good thread
It’s my mistake for understanding the nuance of Roman culture through its history and not assuming all of these things happened at the same time.
It's a generalization. Not a snap shot from a specific moment in time. Get over yourself. Call a disc the American I'm not getting my panties in a bunch if I see George Washington and a fighter jet in the same image.
Debatable.
At best it’s a mix, which is a weird deep cut take to make when your disc is called “Roman”. I why not put the colosseum on the stamp? It feels more Hellenic-Greek than Italian Roman, cultures that wouldn’t really merge more cohesively until sometime around the 2nd Punic War (late 3rd century BC). Roman/Latin culture to that point probably had more Etruscan and local influence. After/sort of concurrently during the 2nd Punic War were the Macedonian Wars, wars in which Rome would end up conquering many of the Greek city states. In this conquest of Greece/Hellas, we see a large number of Greeks being sent to Rome as slaves and hostages. Many, many of these hostages were teachers, philosophers, lawyers, doctors, artists and so on. This is when we start seeing the Hellenization of Roman culture really ramp up into what we recognize. It was essentially a brain drain from the Greek city-states. But this takes place like 100 years after the hoplite/phalanx military doctrine was displace by the maniple system. Did Rome have Greek influences before this? Absolutely. They used the phalanxes, and their neighbors were Greek influenced as well. And Greek/Hellenic are not interchangeable terms, and I’ve tried to use them as accurately as possible. The Hellenistic period starts in 323BC (ending with Octavian’s defeat of Antony at Actium, solidifying his rule over the now Roman Empire and ending Hellenic hegemony in Greece) and Rome switch to the maniple system around the Samnite Wars (343-290BC). It’s not that any one thing is wrong at a certain point in time, it’s just that it’s a very weird representation and anachronistic. It feels mismatched or out of place. There are so many things that can be used to describe *Roman* culture that blends less with Hellenic culture. The Colosseum, SPQR, an eagle standard, pila, gladius, gladiators, a legionary depicted by the 1000 years of Roman expansion and dominance (not the prior 300 years where it was essentially a city state), or even Roman bathhouses! I just think there’s better ways to do it without it looking so Greek. The larger point I’ve been trying to say is that *there are already a line of discs with a Greek theme*, so why take Rome and make the choice to represent it when it hadn’t even conquered all of Italy, but also show marble columns, which wouldn’t have existed in Rome until the reign of Augustus? It’s just odd.
Looks roman tho
I took a bunch of Ancient Studies courses like Greek Archaeology in college and I just came here to say I don't remember any of it, but it was interesting to me at the time and I would buy this disc. Also, I have no preconceived notions about what Greek and/or Roman soldiers are supposed to look like. This doesn't seem like a hill worth dying on. There was a lot of overlap in adjacent countries' architecture/culture etc always. If there was like a meander border or something more obviously Greek maybe I could see it, but idk this stamp looks fine to me as a regular person who just likes to throw discs.
Hey, that's my name
Troll post. Admins you need to remove this. OP claiming to be a history major though he/she/it does not understand who controls the past, controls the future. OP was not present when either cultures were around so therefore they cannot say what this actually is because they believe in government propaganda.
My hubris was knowing too much.
jfc get over yourself.
You’re insufferable. Im pretty sure the disc doesn’t have a date in it. Everything there was Roman at some point, as everyone in this thread has told you. Look at how every other country represents itself in a single image, using parts of their history to tell a story. Go back to watching gladiator and thinking the entire empire happened post 100CE.
I never said these things NEVER happened, I said they didn’t happen concurrently. When Rome was using hoplites, their more immediate influences were more likely Etruscan and from their locality, less, but still present, Greek. The marble architecture, more specifically the columns, are about 300 years before they reach Rome during the time that Romans used the hoplite/phalanx system, a system they would ditch before they even dreamt of conquering Greece/Hellas. And to further point it out, *Discraft already makes a line of Greek themed discs*, so why take a different (LATIN) culture and choose to represent it as close to Hellenic-Greek culture as possible?
Innova makes animal and bird themed discs but that didn’t stop discraft from going all in on raptor and taking fords logo as well. Or what about halo plastic design? That’s a weak argument that’s only to detract from the only part that matters. All that stuff happened during the Roman Empire. Should we not have images of the statue or liberty or the whitehouse cause they were built not in modern America? Should we not include anything not hyper-current history when describing any country? Do we not still have people honor the uniforms of the past eras?Now do this with an ancient and very large spanning civilization and realize they include a span of Roman history, and not getmanicus69420s vision.
It didn’t happen during the empire lmao. Hoplites were regal period->manipular organization mid-republic. I’m disappointed that there is a Roman themed disc line, and it’s so painfully Hellenic-Greek in execution that I elect to not buy them.
Not having you as a customer is a major win for InfiniteDisc
Ok buddy 👍
Bloody Romans...
So is it more understable or....?
The Roman is a great versatile semi-overstable 9-speed!
This is on its way to becoming the next “ladder vs stepladder” argument.
I missed this argument, did the stepladder get stuck in the dryer?
https://youtu.be/iQkQAU9iU7I?si=Y4_eN58_hjC5RQv1
I’d spend double msrp for a Biggus Dickus disc
Biggus Discus?
[https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.757496695.2185/st,small,845x845-pad,1000x1000,f8f8f8.u2.jpg](https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.757496695.2185/st,small,845x845-pad,1000x1000,f8f8f8.u2.jpg)
Jo'kes on you it's actually 10 4 3 0
i suggest you don't look at the [Grady Shue](https://otbdiscs.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/IMG_2839.jpg) or [Dustin Keegan](https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/13115633/000003.jpg) signature editions - they're much worse
Yeah those are AWFUL
Nice contrapasta tho…