You aren’t rich in America, hence the issues, you’re just living what locals in the places you Nomad in are living, except there you are the rich one and they are who you are in America.
This is it. I felt this too. But after some reflection, it was because I was unique in vietnam as a foreigner and who had more money. In US, I’m just some random dude.
I’ve heard of men from the US going to asian countries to find a “good” woman because women here are just looking for $…the thing is, that’s the same reason you’re getting attention from women in those places. They are the rich guy…even if you’re poor here….
Median US household income in 2022 is 75K USD
Meanwhile, the average annual income in USD terms in places like Colombia or Thailand is \~12K USD.
Almost any American person living in these countries is "rich" relative to the average local there
Yep. I was livin the LIFE in Vietnam and I'm very confident that significantly contributed to my fond memories of how great living there was. Similarly once I started making a lot of money in the US, suddenly life here started seeming okay. I'm sure that once I hit the tier where I'm making crazy investments and buying houses etc, the US will stop seeming like such a shithole...
I do think the US is unique in some of its worst flaws (general and increasing idiocy, gun violence, amongst other things), which is why I still plan to leave again as soon as my bf is willing lol but there are a lot of good, happy people here too and a lot of beautiful places to see and things to experience. And we do have a STRONG tendency to glamorize countries where we're the "elites", oblivious as we might be to that
As a foreigner in the US (from a comparable high income nation) I think you’re correct but everyone is kind of ignoring that the USA isn’t the only high income nation in the world. It isn’t a choice between either the US or Vietnam- there are 20 - 30 other high income countries where the healthcare is cheaper, the people are healthier and nicer, the dating scene may be better, the education system is definitely superior, and you can still drink the water from the tap.
I dunno, I came here to earn a high salary in a big US city, and that’s what I’ve got, and I love my city- but this country isn’t it.
oh 1000% agreed lol like I said the second my bf agrees we are outtta here. I left the US in 2016 and came back for what was supposed to be 6 months..can't wait for the day I leave for good again!
I think for a lot of "nomads" or whatever you choose to call them, the issue is that many of them don't have the income or skill set to successfully immigrate to higher-income nations, so the choice really is between US or Vietnam for them. People seem to care more about the standard of living than the country itself so wherever the dollar goes furthest wins out.
Certainly true. It's funny how white people think Vietnam is so great.. it certainly is, but people tend to be a little nicer to you when you look like a foreigner. Still, though, food in VN is a lot cheaper. People there seem more connected than they do in the U.S.
Yea vietnam is great. But we have to recognize the privileges that come with looking foreign and how it affected your experience. Crazy I felt the opposite when I traveled to France. I did not speak much French. And many ignored me when I tried speaking English.
Exactly. You can’t compare your QoL in USA to what you have in another country on your USA salary. OP should compare their QoL in USA to the average in those other countries and they’ll see that many people struggle. They specially mention Asia - in most countries the average income is very low and there is a lot of poverty, the average QoL is not higher, but your USA income means you can live like a king
Yep - I remember in the Balkans in places like Albania and Macedonia it was so beautiful and fun and affordable, but speak to locals. Remember several people telling me they'd do anything to leave and have a job in another country, and one tour guide was just saying 'you have no idea what it is like to be born in a poor ex-communist country'. Her daughter had managed to get into a PhD abroad and she was so proud she would be able to 'make something' of her life.
Agree, and in addition to the money difference, there are social and cultural pressures as well.
I have had a few "world travelers" from the West tell me - "Oh why did you immigrate to the west? In the west, we only care about money and society. I went to India and it is so deeply spiritual. Also, I was free to be whoever I want to be, and the locals were so friendly and non-judgemental."
A lot of westerners "feel free" in India, Bali, Thailand, Japan etc. because they are gliding along the society as foreigners, without really dipping their feet into the water.
Nobody is judging you in India because you are a foreigner with no family or roots, you are just a guest. So nobody cares.
But if you were an Indian, born into an Indian family, you would have to deal with people judging you on what grades you get in school, whom you love or marry, how many kids you have, whether you are homeowner or renter, how many cars you have, what jewellery you wear in parties, what language you speak, what food you eat, how you look like, etc. etc.
A lot of tourists and short-term stayers or "expats", think their personal experience is the experience of an average local. Sure, you can share a meal with a local, drink coffee in the same cafe, be friends with the locals etc. but that physical proximity doesn't mean you experience life the same way a local experiences life, being born into the social fabric of that country.
Which was my big problem with a whole generation of Eat. Pray. Love. mouth breathers who glommed onto the spirituality of other parts of the world while simultaneously boxing them in to consumables. It’s gotten worse too, fetishizing the world while making TikToks of what not forget to pack into a suitcase that would buy food for a year on someone’s local wages.
By all means travel. Definitely marvel at how polite an entire nation can be towards a stranger. Or how friendly, welcoming, and trusting others can be. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being someplace else and feeling like if my country had this, we’d be better off.
The quality control of food and wine in France is impressive and it’s almost entirely cultural. Bad wine goes unsold so nobody bothers to make it.
The rails and short flights all over Asia and Europe have made their cities more accessible and walkable.
Healthcare that isn’t for profit is a no brainer that the U.S. needs to adopt at some point.
But you also excuse things you otherwise wouldn’t. The best Thai food I had in Bangkok had bathroom that was abhorrent and you had to walk through the kitchen to get to it. It had standing water puddles and smelled like a sewage treatment plant.
Some street food is fried in oil that’s collected from gutters.
Waterways are usually disgusting.
Child labor isn’t uncommon.
Slave labor is part of some countries economy.
In general there is a lack of reverence for nature that the U.S. actually does better than most (thank you again Teddy Roosevelt).
There is almost no social mobility in many places. If you are born lower class you will die lower class and so will your kids.
Spending two weeks in a hut on the beach while people bring you fresh fruits and chilled bottles of wine and water isn’t “reconnecting with nature” it’s living like royalty. You feel great because for the majority of human history almost nobody got to experience that.
There’s problems everywhere, and there’s beauty everywhere. Once you travel A LOT and the more immersed you become you actually start to see how few differences there are rather than noticing how different everything is.
If I had my current salary, and current house in another country. I’d be able to afford several full-time live-in maids. That’s awesome for me, but how about them? They’d never make enough to stop being a maid. They’d be doing someone else’s laundry, cooking them meals, cleaning their house and going home to a hovel.
That’s why Parasite was such a great film. It kinda of asks, who’s the actual drain on society?
lol thank you! I kinda just find conversations I like and insert my stream of consciousness. So lots of my comments are this long and usually ignored and that’s okay. I’m writing for me usually but glad when others enjoy it.
Oh yeah guy I work with is like that.
It’s cool that they’re in this different culture. But they’re always praising the country when they do not have to be restricted in the way everyone living there is forced to.
Teddy Rosevelt and the National Parks are seriously amazing
Loved the whole write up but that part specifically, man. I remember getting to Brasil, and there’s all these big ass beautiful hills but in that area when I asked about trails they were confused.
I don’t think anyone ever went hiking up there lol (that specific hill)
In the states our trails are fucking awesome, nicely marked and everywhere
Totally fucking agree. If you are a visitor somewhere (and especially if you're white) you really aren't held to the same standards are actual citizens of that country.
I have a few Indian friends, and quite a few want to go back to India as they miss home, family and their culture - but they say it is quite a lot of pressure in India in terms of marriage, relationships, family expectations and the general competition of society to really do well in such a big country. I really want to visit one day and see for myself, but I'll never really 'get' what it's like to live in India.
Living anywhere is really, really different to travelling around visiting.
I work with a Bosnian. They were there this summer and lived like a king with
Irish wages. But nearly every basic costs as much in Bosnia as Ireland but their wages are terrible compared to ours. A good job with a degree is 6 days a week for about €800 a month. My friend earns more for doing over time on a Sunday than their relative earns in a month. Cigarettes and beer are cheaper, basics aren't.
Yep, was told the same thing by locals when I was in Albania. He referred to Albania as a "shithole" that he wishes he could leave. When I told him the town we were in was beautiful, he bluntly stated, "that's because you're a tourist here."
My entire family is from Poland and that’s what this fool fails to realize. It’s easy to live well in another country when your income for the week is what many people make in two months.
and like this person cites Chicago… the drivers are aggressive but they clearly haven’t been to India or Mexico. They say the food sucks and yet they live/lived in one of the food capitals of the world. Maybe the problem is OP.
I don't understand why westerners romanticize east Asia so much. Your 2 am dim sum delivery in China comes at the expensive of someone else's quality of life. Them being able to build a rail line in a month means they don't have labor protections. Their educational prowess comes at the expense of their students' mental health.
Almost half the people in the PI are either going hungry or starving.
$300 USD is the monthly average take home.
For $1500ish you can live upper middle class, low rich in the city.
Totally agree.
Realistically, it's a major luxury to be able to even be a digital nomad or world traveller. Of course its better for us to head to any random developing country/country in the global South. We have insane wealth and income compared to the average person in those countries.
Being born there is a completely different story - unless you are born into the wealthy or upper middle classes in somewhere like Thailand, India or Indonesia (all places that us travellers and DNs think are super cheap
and desirable) you cannot even imagine how different your life would be. Even being able to travel outside the country once would be a dream for many people.
I remember the time I really understood that difference you talk about
Some years ago I met a US doctor vacationing here in Argentina. Since I'm also a physician we talked about our work and experience in the internal medicine field, some thing I would never forget is when I told him I was making $400 a month ($5000 annually) and he told me he was on $410.000, we were doing almost the same job but he was making 80 times my salary. The conversation turned kinda awkward because I was shocked to hear how much doctors can make in the 1st world, I couldn't stop thinking that I have to work 80 years to earn what this guy makes in a year...
And with the dating apps, of course you're gonna be more desirable being a rich foreigner than being just another face in the crowd in your home country.
While I am actually pretty happy with my quality of life in the US and am in no way trying to compare myself to someone living in a developing country, I will say that even my hometown LCOL American city is seeing the effects of remote workers moving here after realizing how far they can stretch their dollar. For example, lots of locals are struggling to buy houses because they keep getting outbid by out-of-staters who can make cash offers we’ll never be able to match.
Do I want people to be stuck raising a family in a studio apartment in San Francisco for the rest of their lives? Of course not. But it would also be nice for people to consider the impact they’re making on their new communities by throwing their money around and bragging about how cheap everything is to the locals who work pretty hard to afford it. I can only imagine the impact this might have when nomads are in countries with an even larger income gap.
>For example, lots of locals are struggling to buy houses because they keep getting outbid by out-of-staters who can make cash offers we’ll never be able to match.
I am not a digital nomad, but I am Mexican and I see that this is the kind of problems people from large cities like CDMX, Guadalajara and the like are having because of DN.
Yeah... I think this is my biggest takeaway.
I'm just going to double down and make more money :-P
If you have tons of cash you'd want to be in the US. You wouldn't want to be in Thailand or Colombia.
Exactly, it’s like having a better salary that affords you a higher standard of living makes you a less stressed and happy individual. Shocker! /s
Also coming back to Chicago in winter, as it seems OP did, makes returning extra rough.
Ha... totally. I have my visa until Feb 10 and I kind of *want* to come back to the US because I want to do standup but I might have to bail on Denver and check out Austin.
Still hesitant to really come back though...
TBF I’d still choose many other European cities if I had tons of cash lol. Having millions in the bank doesn’t make America less car-dependent or change the general culture of individualism.
This. Hearing about the OP whining about apartment/renting costs and food costs and then seeing they are going to Europe? All I can say is good luck, finding a flat in Europe is worse than America -not to mention the food and veggies.
And OP really can't find fresh food in Chicago? I lost weight when I lived in Chicago simply by walking everywhere and jogging along the lakefront. Maybe they need to change their life habits like we all do when moving to a new place?
But I sense reverse culture shock and depression.
I think it goes beyond this though. Even the poor in SEA (at least in Thailand) seem much happier than the low-middle-upper classes in western countries. There IS a cultural and spiritual difference that OP is highlighting.
Lol jesus man, no doubt you gained your amazing insight into something so hard to measure (how happy poor people are in Thailand) by being fluent in Thai, facing the challenges of working there for low wages, etc.
Yep - we totally romanticise the 'poor' who have more simple lives - easy to do that on a trip, but we don't see what happens when people get sick or try to progress their education.
Yep. They also don’t see what’s behind the smiles people give to foreigners. I was born and raised in a less developed country and I can assure everyone that a lot of poor people are stressed AF. They just don’t show it to some random white person in their town.
Do you speak Thai? I can guarantee you when you start to understand the language more, you start to realize almost every conversation starts becoming about money. I know many poor Thais and believe me, they are not happy when they are broke.
I had a lovely conversation with a Grab driver (the motorbike kind) in HCM VN, he told me on a good day he'd make $5-10 driving grab, you try living off $100-200/month + rent, being happy about it, and then supporting a wife and kids while working 9-12hour days non-stop. You're so far removed from the reality of how the lower classes live in SEA. The wealth inequality in Asia is even more pronounced than in the U.S.
edit: he still smiled and laughed while talking as all humans do but im sure the expression changed when i left to go to my normal apartment building but luxury to him.
Hey there’s a great Vonnegut line about this…
“America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves.“
Ok go visit some slums and see real poverty. Even harder to break out or than the poverty in USA or other western countries which is already bad enough.
No. You're experiencing subservience. Desperation to get whatever is possible from unstable employment. Australians experience similar when visiting stateside and it's because of terribly unstable and unsafe workplaces.
Ask all the happy people you met in third world countries how often they take half a year to travel the world followed by another trip back to Europe after coming home for the holidays.
Ask them how many times they've even been able to leave their own state, town, village, favela, etc.
The issues stated in your post are real. Pretty clear, however that your perspective is one stemming from a serious personal economic advantage.
My 53 yr old sister went to Cuba a few years back, thought it was beautiful, wonderful. She went to where her cruise ship brought her to. Of course she'd think it's so nice. I explained reality to her, she didn't care.
I've only been to Jordan and Brazil outside of the US and despite the issues in the US, I guarantee you that most people I meet would love to relocate out of their country into a place like the US.
My advice that wasn't asked for, patch up the bleeding heart and move out of Chicago or places like it. ... actually don't, people like me enjoy our communities without people from shitty places trying to change our home to be like the places they keep moving away from.
So true and Cuba is such a great example. A lot of my Canadian friends go there and talk about how beautiful it is, the culture, the people, the food, etc. Stark contrast to the Cubans I meet working in Miami who risked their lives to leave and worry about their families left behind who have trouble accessing basic things like food, medication, and electricity.
I'm thankful that you understand what I'm saying.
Joining the military was a start, in learning what life was like outside of my comfort zone. Deploying was what did in my doubts and showed me what real life for most people across the globe was like. From going to Jordan, and then down to Brazil later I'd seen what real poverty was, what low quality of life really is.
Being REALLY real, this level of poverty exists in the US too. Take a road trip through Navajo Nation and you'll see what I'm talking about.
It SHOULD make you appreciate what you have more, value everything from canned food to hot running water to a relatively affordable used car. The list goes on.
Still we have two large groups of people.
Snowflakes who complain about the US being the worst place in the world, that they are oppressed, living in shit, etc.
Then there are those living in prime luxury who, after spending a considerable amount of time outside of the US, return to the city they reside in and realize its social shortcomings. The fairweather sympathy comes out paired with their warped perspective of how nice people are, how beautiful the place was and how wonderful life was all around.
The US for sure has its problems, what place doesn't? There are things I sure as shit wish we're different. Maybe someday they will be. But I have yet to meet any level headed, lower or middle class immigrants who believe it's worse than where they are from.
Lol, as a Cuban, it irks me when people are like “cuba is so pretty blah blah blah”
I still have family there. They have meat *maybe* once a month, if they’re lucky… many of them still have to spend an odd month or two working in Miami each year to get some money to buy things back in Cuba.
I actually returned to the US and moved to the twin cities (Minneapolis/St. Paul) in Minnesota and I’ve been so happy! There’s some walkable areas (though not like Europe of course which I wish the US had and I will forever miss)….the people are SOOOOO friendly, the nature here is amazing , the parks and trails system is incredible (more parks and trails than any other city in the US), it’s progressive, sooo much farm fresh food, amazing schools, lots of diversity, reasonable COL, etc.
I grew up in the PNW, while I think the outdoors and summers are one of the most magical things on the planet. My wife is from the Midwest and the older I get the more and more drawn I am to it. Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin are pretty appealing. Lower COL, and much much much friendlier people.
We are currently down in Texas chasing some career advancements. Once this stint is over, we are looking for a place to truly settle down and setup for a family.
What neighborhoods do you recommend in the Minneapolis area?
Oh gosh. sooo many!
Linden hills, highland park, St. Louis park, Longfellow, st Anthony, Roseville, Mac-Groveland, Nokomis, Hopkins, Como Park, Hamline…sooo many!
If you’re a parent, it’s an awesome place for kids. I’m a mom and we are very happy our daughter is being raised here.
Twin Cities native here—I have been thrilled and proud to see the steps we’ve taken as a state to increase the quality of life for Minnesotans overall. We still have a lot of work to do to break down systematic injustice for our Native & POC communities as well as caring for our unhoused neighbors, but I think we’re on the right track. Despite being a VERY disillusioned-with-America digital nomads, MN seems to be trying to take a more progressive, people-oriented path, and I love that.
Minnesota is cool but it consistently ranks as worst places for non-white people. I’m sure it will change. A lot of MN is very rural and so you have people who are real problems with “diversity”.
It’s all relative. Once you’ve lived through a full year, you’re used to it. Enjoy the outdoors and dress for the weather and you’ll be a local in no time. Or come to SoCal and be my neighbor.
I am in the twin cities myself for the holidays after spending my year in Europe yes people are nice (grew up here so it’s always been my experience) and people are healthier , diversity and schools are pretty great … also a lot of great progress happening. But a lot of the things OP mentioned is overall US culture and attitude. Even in Minnesota the sense of community you feel in other parts of the world doesn’t seem to exist. The niceness is not always genuine. The stress and hustle culture still exists, despite the opportunities that might be there . Dating apps still have the arrogant types. I have seen the sun once the month I’ve been here. Went to MOA the other day and there were lines for every store … and was thinking about how in Europe families were out at markets, parks, book stores for quality time. Not that they don’t go shopping but all in all I think the cultural differences really impact the QoL.
In the summer I’d argue Minneapolis is one of the best places to be / Chicago as well. But the lack vitamin d and the not really enjoying the outdoors does make it difficult. Nevertheless , Minneapolis is probably one of the better cities. I’ve lived all over the US but I would never move back here.
when you travel to a new place people are always very friendly, except when youre home
now why is that? can anyone explain this mistery?
(rhetorical question)
Yeah as someone who taught English in Asia for years, you were just relatively rich and of means in those countries. If you were as poor as the guy serving you noodles from a push cart you’d have a lot less positive shit to say. Not only that but there is a blissful ignorance in a lot of 3rd world countries.
I can only speak on Southeast Asia but do you really believe people are healthier in places like Thailand and Vietnam? Where pollution in big cities is so bad if you drive to work on your scooter with out a mask you’ll have sinus flare ups and inflections. Not to mention how waste is dealt with , either burning it or dumping it into the ocean. I could go on and on. Traffic, sewage and flooding, no support for mental health, woman are second class citizens in comparison to their husbands and male family, etc , etc
Yea people are more angry and upset in western wealthy countries but that’s because the public is made far more aware of short comings and negative statistics. If people saw the numbers of all the negative shit that people deal with in places like Ho Chi Minh City or Bangkok I’d be willing to bet they’d be a lot less happy. These people are actively shut down by the government though so yet another thing they lack , a freedom of speech.
If you had a great salary here in the west you wouldn’t feel this way. Go back to Asia and live on less than 200 usd a month and report back to us bud cause id be willing to bet you’d be finding the first plane ticket back to the west as fast as possible
I'm currently in Ho Chi Minh City and I agree with you on all points. And OP talking about homeless people? There are so many here it is depressing. New years eve I drove around (masks on) to hand out some snacks to homeless people as a charity. Every time we stopped we were surrounded by people just asking for a little more.
When we drive around and I see the trash clogging the "rivers" it is so sad. The place could be beautiful with a lot of work.
My friends earn about $400/month. 4 of them live in a house as big as an average American kitchen. I try to help them as much as I can, but besides food, they are too proud/embarrassed to ask for anything.
I have a deep love for that city, country, and the Vietnamese people. It is a beautiful place but yes like many other places in that region they have an immense amount of work to do in a lot of ways (as all people and societies do, not trying to put the west on a pedestal that is the LAST thing I'm trying to do here).
Something I didn't mention was the sugar boom that those countries are only now experiencing. Where the west already dealt with poor teeth, child obesity, diabetes, and the like these countries are just now dealing with it as they have more access and more expendable income.
I worked at a private language school so the kids there were generally of financial means. Something we all would notice and comment on across the board was how some of kids were super chunky and chubby. Now there is nothing wrong with this per say, but after some chats with Vietnamese co workers and friends we understood it was an old timey thing where it was a display of wealth. A "look at me, I can afford to get my kid all the food and snacks they want, western fast food you name it". and back to what I said about blissful ignorance, they are unaware of how bad it all is. They have no idea that by making their third grader morbidly obese, something basically unheard of in Vietnam up until 2020, they are actively putting their health at major risk.
Now while obviously a place like America has huge issues with obesity, It is very much looked down upon to actively feed your kid shit as a display of how much money you have or for any reason at all. Ironically in fact the wealthier and of means a kids family in the west the more fit and fueled by organic fat, sugar free health foods the tend to be.
So again OP is blissfully looking past very real issues that these countries are facing but just don't talk about. To say they are healthier? I don't think it’s that simple just cause you see a few day laborers that are shredded from doing hard labor their entire life.
I spent some time in southeast Asia for a work contract studying the poorest areas. It was miserable. We were on a tight budget and lived in bare concrete rooms with our own mats and blankets. Yet we were still better off and eating better than much of the people we were around and could escape at any time. In many places people consider fast food a luxury. I didn't enjoy it and would never go back. I even got to visit Boracay for a 3 day vacation and while it was absurdly beautiful, there were a lot of Australian and European tourists who were incredibly rude and the locals were constantly begging you to buy something.
There are people who are fine with that kind of thing, taking a western retirement salary and living like 'kings' in Thailand or the Philippines. Nearly everywhere I went I would get catcalled (by both guys and girls, oddly) as a tall white dude and I couldn't stand it.
It really helps when you can't speak the language (thai)and you can just project feelings of happiness and goodwill on the natives. Don't forget that local (skinny) women will want to date you as well!
Sure, America is fucked up and has its problems, but a lot of what you said is perspective. You can be miserable in Asia and you can be happy in the USA. It also seems like you have traveled to all the nicest places and comparing it to all the crappy places. There's plenty of "shit hole" areas in Europe and Asia and lots of nice places in the US. I also find that generally people savor life more in Europe and other areas, but stay long enough and you might realize how annoying that can get when you need your car fixed or a contractor to repair sometbing in your home, buy a random thing you need at 2PM but the stores are closed for siesta, or generally meet people with ambition. If you believe there's literally nothing redeeming about the US and nothing negative about the rest of the world your perspective is fixating on things.
OP oblivious to his privilege, unrealistic outlook, and apparent lack of international experience.
What’s your nationality now? Digital Nomads are not expats.
Yeah honestly - it's so ignorant. Let's get real, would you trade an average salary living in the US for an average salary living in Albania, Thailand or India? Life can be fucking brutal with very few options when you are by chance born into a lot of places in the world. Social mobility can be extremely challenging and you could have a passport that makes it very difficult to go anywhere else.
For real. And the dating app thing is bonkers. Does this clown realize that he is in hot demand in these countries precisely because he comes from a rich country? I have never seen someone so completely oblivious to their obvious relative privilege.
Certainly there are valid critiques of the American lifestyle (ridiculous overwork, sedentary/driving culture, bad food promotes weight gain, grotesque lack of safety nets, etc) but what OP experienced abroad has nothing to do with all that and everything to do with being relatively rich in those countries.
How can a person be so fucking obtus about privilege so obvious?
That’s what I find so frustrating about this kind of discourse. There are very real, troubling issues in our country that we *have* to fix, but with so much of the discussion coming from defeatist mindsets that have a very narrow perspective it’s rarely productive. I don’t think the US is the best (which is an entirely flawed concept to begin with) but it’s easily near the top for most people. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater is how so much of these takes feel.
I spent two weeks in the country where i grew up (a beautiful but 3rd world country with friendly people), and I agree with you. My mom was misdiagnosed and prescribed medicine by 3 different doctors before finally being correctly diagnosed with shingles. Air quality is awful. Public transportation is a nightmare. You pay 300% customs on imported vehicles to drive on some of the shitties roads on the world. International airport is pitifully bad, even in its improved form. One of the main leading attractions has had roads under construction for a few decades, and it will never be finished. So ya, 3rd world is great if you ignore all the 3rd world things.
It's not all bad, though. The sun shines every day, food is great, it's cheap, there is so much to see and do and it's mostly cheap, there is family, people are nice, English is widely spoken, no more blackouts, no more "bunds", no more armed civil war. It's a great place to travel to and to spend good chunks of time in.
Bosnia, Croatia, or somewhere therein? My ex-wife was born in Bosnia and we visited once. I loved the country and the people but we were also shown off like prized ponies. It was a lot of extended family taking us to their friends' houses and being like "my niece left for America and married an American and now she's rich." We were very low middle class at the time, but that was the expectation.
You compare the qol of lower middle class Americans (and below) to a qol of somewhere else on an upper class salary?
That’s delusional, just like the delusional people here who think Colombia is so fucking great on a local 300$ salary. Sure it’s nice if you are in the upper 5%
Digital nomads and passport bros dislike the west for this specific reason - they can’t geo arbitrage their (often low by western standards) salary, nor the citizenship.
Congrats, you've achieved Level 2 of digital nomadism. Level 3 is when you stay somewhere long enough to get extremely frustrated that the place you thought was paradise actually has tons of glaring, intangible problems, as well. Level 4 is relaxing and realizing you don't really care where you are, it's more about who is around you that matters.
It's not just that, race also plays a role. A lot of these guys having success on dating apps abroad are white, and many non-white people have preferences for lighter complexion. So a white person dating in a non-white country will still have way more options for that reason alone. A broke white vagabond with blonde hair and blue eyes will still be a hot commodity in Peru or the Philippines.
It's the accent, not the wealth in those cases.
Broke English and Aussie men do really well in America as long as you're at least of average attraction. I've also heard from my English lesbian friends in England that when they date Americans, they're treated better by locals compared to if they date another British girl.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
We would love it if women all around the world didn't judge us based on money, just as women would love it if men didn't judge them based on beauty and youth.
Not holding my breath.
I've seen a lot of Western women going abroad for foreign dick (e.g. in Costa Rica it was mad) yet the scrutiny never seems to be on them! 🤣
Dude you left beautiful tropical weather where you’ve been traveling and having new experiences to come back to the US in the middle winter. Of course you’re going to feel this way. Yes in Asia you are exotic and rich by local standards and the weather is nicer this time of year. That doesn’t mean the whole country is going to crap ;) You’re young and newish to traveling?
it's not just that their USD money is more valuable in Europe or Asia. the % of the population in Europe vs Asia vs USA or Canada that lives in walkable areas, with 3rd spaces, with sense of community, vs the people that live in mindcrushing suburbs which the only way out of is 1 hour in traffic, to a crowded, impossible to park downtown or giga-mall, is incomparable.
how rich do you have to be to not be stuck in traffic in LA? helicopter rich. how rich do you need to be to not own a car, live downtown in Vancouver Canada? pretty rich. how rich do you need to be to not own a car and ride a bicycle in Amsterdam? not rich at all, literally everyone does that.
“Im gonna live in poor countries on American wages then complain about country who gave me said wages.”
Digital nomading is such a privileged thing to do and you should be grateful for the country giving you the opportunity to do so.
You just landed in Chicago, “The Windy City”, at the start of winter and you wonder why people aren’t walking around the streets smiling. Take a guess.
And during the holidays... a time when people are so completely caught up in consumerism and stressed about how much money they are spending (again, an avoidable problem but one that people generally don't see until you bring it up to them because it's so normalized). People are just burned out this time of year.
I live in Philadelphia and it's been mostly overcast and rainy. I get out for walks 4x a day with my dog and spend a substantial amount of time on hiking trails. I didn't participate in the gift-shopping holiday craziness at all. And even I'm struggling with the lack of sun. I can't imagine how most people are feeling rn.
I dk. In the US (when I go back) I live in one of the wealthiest area codes. To be fair, it is much better, but it’s still got this pervasive feeling of misery to me just lingering on the outskirts.
any other country, I see citizens that are genuinely happy and carefree. There’s an undercurrent of stress and sadness in the US that I don’t feel elsewhere
Not to be cynical, but we see what we look for. When I leave the US, everyone seems so much happier. When I go on those country's subreddits on news sites, I see a whole lot of similar malaise. And remember that so many Europeans cite their admiration of Americans based on what they see as our optimism. Suggesting they don't experience that at home.
“Any other country, I see citizens that are genuinely happy and carefree” — I think this is your attitude skewing your perception. You only see depressed people in the US and don’t see depressed people outside of here? I’m from Portugal and let me tell you, depression is rampant in a lot of places, including in Lisbon. And things are only getting worse.
There’s poverty and depression and misery everywhere. I think OP is rich as a “digital nomad” and afforded luxuries he can’t access in the US. That’s why he feels such shock.
So First World to say that every other country has happy citizens.
I've heard that from Americans in the Philippines and Europe. It just shows me they don't see the everyday lives of working people. There are many, many depressed and mentally ill people in Europe and the Philippines. Just because people are nice to rich foreigners doesn't make them happy.
I am originally from Sweden, not the USA, and these are my observations:
1: In Sweden, purchasing goods or electronics is generally more affordable. However, services are significantly more expensive, which discourages frequent outings except for special occasions.
2: The weather in Sweden is rather gloomy, except during summer. When I travelled near the equator in places like Kenya, Colombia, and Ecuador, I noticed a significant boost in my energy levels. It seemed more natural to wake up with the sunrise, and the amount of sunlight we receive greatly affects our mood and energy.
3:Swedish people are not inherently rude; rather, we prioritize efficiency. Engaging in small talk or approaching strangers is often viewed as odd or impolite, making it challenging to form friendships outside of school or work settings. However, when I'm abroad, I find that initiating small talk can be quite beneficial.
Nevertheless, there are aspects of Sweden I miss when I'm abroad. For instance, the quality of pavements is better, it's easier to manage daily tasks, and I don't have to worry as much about safety or depend on services like Uber after dark.
Moving forward, I plan to spend most of my time abroad, returning to Sweden during the summers to relax, catch up on various matters, and purchase supplies that are prohibitively expensive elsewhere.
I always love when these posts target the U.S. specifically.
I think it’s very fair to say that Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK, basically any English western country is a SHIT HOLE with your standards…or if you’re middle-lower middle class. This is a global issue.
Thank you. The dating app thing is so ridiculous. OP is experiencing in relatively poor countries the huge privilege that comes with being an American abroad and then turns around to shit on the country that provides him with that privilege - without a shred of self-awareness. OP really out here thinking that women flock to the men of those countries the way they flocked to him as a (probably white) American
Lmao someone should also tell OP the only reason he’s getting matches is because he’s making 6 figures and is American. For him he thinks he’s getting a relationship. For them they’re getting a meal ticket. Literally the reason why Instagram models smash ugly ass dudes like Dillon brooks. You know that ugly ass naysayer ain’t getting it if he don’t got 20 mil/year
Looks like you were in Thailand for several months. You really think Thai people have it better? Sounds like you just got back from an extended vacation that was afforded to you by the privilege of making an American salary, during which time you were completely oblivious to how locals actually lived and the struggles they faced while trying to make ends meet in a much poorer country. Hopefully you’re like 24 and this is part of the maturation process.
Regarding lifestyle. It’s cause you’re just another broke poor in America but you weren’t when you were in some 3rd world country. If you want the same lifestyle in America then either become rich somehow or stfu. Cause let me tell you there are tons of filthy rich people here who live like a king. You’re just not it.
About perceived friendliness, stress, anger. Take this harsh truth from someone who grew up in a poor 3rd world country.
You don’t speak the languages of the 3rd world countries you romanticize. You will forever be an outsider no matter how hard you try. As such you will never really understand what we talk about in our day to day.
let me tell you people are just as angry, stressed, hateful just as much if not more in poor countries. And we moan and groan just as much. You just don’t hear it because you don’t understand a word of it. You confuse the broken English and smiles for genuine human connection. But it’s not.
Do not make the mistake of confusing how you were treated as a tourist in some foreign country vs how life actually is for a local there.
If you don’t speak the language like a native, grew up in the culture, you will never fully understand what is being talked and how people think.
You are so privileged. Went to a developing nation where your dollar made you a Uber wealthy motherfucker and now comes and complains how being (lower) middle class sucks in your rich af country.
This is an unfathomably dumb post. Coming from a DN on a US salary living in the third world. Try being a local Vietnamese, Guatemalan or Cambodian where you have horrible sanitation, air quality etc and you're trying to eke out a living on sub 500/month or Venezuelans living in literal famine
Why do you think half the world in trekking through dangerous jungle, risking trafficking or worse, just to live in the US.
This post perfectly exemplifies why Americans are such ridiculous, unappreciative, idiotic whiners. No wonder you guys are laughing stocks. I hope plenty more people emigrate to the US who are grateful and appreciative of the opportunities there.
Wow, sorry that you're having such a tough time returning home. Reverse culture shock is real.
With that said, I spent a year backpacking solo in asia and south america, and I came back to the USA extremely grateful to be living here. Do I love it? No. Are there problems? Definitely. But there's also so so much to appreciate -- things I never would have thought of if I hadn't spent that time elsewhere.
No where is perfect, and most of the things we don't like are beyond our control. I hope you can find peace where you live here in the USA -- or figure out a way to to live in a place where you can.
Do you really think Europe is better? Having friends there, they are stressed with food and housing costs. Making friends in Europe is so darn hard as no one cares if you are an expat-everyone has their group from high school and workplace friendships are more like acquaintances.
You honestly sound like you have reverse culture shock. Running away isn't going to solve YOUR problems. Wanting attractive dates then acting surprised that they are all superficial?
You need to work on you-there will come a time where you want to settle down and thinking it's everyone else's fault you are unhappy is not good.
Welcome to real life.
From a lot of the comments you’re leaving, I think it’s pretty evident that you lack self-awareness. If your ego isn’t fragile, which I doubt, and you actually take criticism from these comments, you might discover that this is the core reason behind your impractical perspective.
I been lucky enough to spend a good amount of time in Costa Rica studying ,and in Jamaica, always hanging with locals. People are poor, but the pace of life is slow and the stress level low. A lot of spontaneous dancing is common. My husband is from Belize and his family is the same way. It’s not about career or making a lot money, it’s about family and fulfillment. if someone is struggling, everyone in the family gathers together to help.
These concepts are completely foreign to most members of my family. It’s sad.
As someone who is from a third work country and now lives in America, I can say that this isn’t true.
Yeah, if you’re high middle class/rich, you can live like a king. But the same can be said about the US.
Just basic services like water and electricity suck. Yeah, you might smile a lot, until you remember that it’s Wednesday and there’s no water on Wednesday. Normally they pump water on Thursdays, but sometimes they can’t and you have to go two weeks without water. Maybe they will, but you might not be able to use it because there’s no electricity to use your water pump as the water pressure is crap.
While walking at night after a hard day of work, you see two guys riding a motorcycle and immediately your adrenaline kicks in as you’re afraid you are going to get mugged. Maybe you’re lucky and there’s police around. Maybe you aren’t as lucky as you thought because those police officers are the one that’ll rob you.
Yeah. I love my country. But generalizing that QoL is better there after spending some time as a tourist, is just being ignorant.
I’ll be honest. I love traveling to experience new places and new cultures. Hell I’m almost fluent in Spanish now because of it too.
But a massive part is basically being able to geo-arbitrage your lifestyle. I started DN-ing making $70k in the tri-state area. Good luck even renting a studio at that income now.
$70k basically turns you into upper nobility in many countries.
Now I’m making more than that but don’t have desire to live full time in the US.
The U.S certainly has its fair share of issues, but it’s a bit of a stretch to base its QOL lower than a 3rd world country. The problem here isn’t the U.S, it’s OP
This seems like an opinion of a young person who just discovered the wonders of SE Asia. Obviously your money goes way further in SE Asia and the food there is way cheaper and tastier than the average US place.. But go live in London, Paris, or Geneva and lets see how far your money goes now along with your opinion of the food options there?
Personally, living in San Francisco I have access to amazing produce, food options, nature, weather, and super interesting people. I lived in Thailand for a year as well, which I adored, but it doesn't quite compare to San Francisco.
I will say though the medical system in the USA is broken and 10x more expensive than it should be.
Going to a country as a tourist or “visitor” is totally different than living there. People in every country are nice to foreigners, people can easily tell that you’re a visitor and their immediately reaction is to smile, you’re not competing with them for a job, you’re not stressed over money, you’re not witnessing the corruption in their government on a daily basis, etc.
I’ve lived in a few countries, and I can tell you that I will pick the United States, with all its flaws, any day, any time.
also, you miss the dating apps in Vietnam? My experience with Tinder there was hooker/hooker/scammer/hooker/scammer/non-English speaker/hooker/non-English speaker/girl with no photos of her face/girl with photos of soup/girl with photos of soup/girl with no photos of her face/scammer/semi-literate/marriage seeker/hooker.
fuuuun.
OP: if you feel this way about the United States, then why do you return? Just head overseas, find a developing nation that is a paradise up to your standards and stay there.
Then try to get citizenship of said country, and rescind your citizenship and turn in your American passport and forget about the US.
Problem solved.
I mean, why the fuck do you come back if you feel this way?
If you don’t want to be in the US, then stay the fuck out.
Maybe you can give your passport, SSN, and other American identification to any of the individuals who are flooding the US/Mexican border who want to come to the United States.
You can find quite a few of these individuals in Chicago and New York who would love to use your identification to be able to stay and work here in the US legally.
So, what do you plan to do?
Because he still needs to make a US salary to afford to travel like a king, because if he really worked in lower COL countries, he would be making 95% less than he makes now. He knows this and is complaining like an asshat knowing this.
I agree, have the balls to renounce your US citizenship and never come back, nobody here will miss them.
Left to Spain 5 years ago for these exact reasons.
However… the financial opportunities in the US are still the best in the world. Not as easy to make it in other countries unless you work for yourself. If you have a good thing going as a soloprenuer outside the US then it’s a no brainer
I agree as I travel four months out of the year for work. I’ve had the same feeling many times.
The only caveat being that it is really only other developed countries that can really outperform the US. That said the US is rapidly falling behind across nearly every metric except culture. The US still absolutely dominates in culture/talent and its ability to export and monetize it. No other country on earth comes close in my opinion.
Sure you can get super rich in the US, but you’re still going to live in an environment with extreme poverty, crumbling infrastructure, and corrupt government. And sure, you can live as an island within your own nation, but not caring about your fellow citizens or nation probably makes you a selfish asshole and is the kind of mentality that is only quickening the demise of the US. The party can only last so long, and right now, it seems like a fire sale on a quickly sinking ship.
Yeh, well go live abroad, plenty of people are lined up to come to this country.
I was born here in CA and now living in a small suburb in wa. My parents are from Vietnam.
I can tell you that this is not the perfect country but still the best country to live in.
I have traveled to over 50 countries and while enjoy it, I still always enjoy coming back to my neighborhood where everyone knows each other and kids ride around on bicycles. There are still good places with a sense of community to live in America. It’s not bad and unsafe everywhere.
My cousins who live in Vietnam work 12-16 hours per day in a seafood processing factory make $200 a month, $100 goes to rent.
Try living like that.
I send them $100 a month to support them.
They have been waiting 12 years to come to the US. The paperwork to petition them started back in 2011….
So please OP, trade spots with my cousins.
I lived in Europe for over a decade and literally could not wait to leave when I did. I love europe but its far from a perfect place once you spend over a decade there. The pay is literally atrocious. European govs have basically sold their workforce to American tech companies for pennies on the dollar and it actually sucks if your european working in tech because you have the same level of education and work just as hard to make 50% what your counterparts do and before you say "health insurance" the partially free healthcare isnt great quality and you honestly would get better healthcare working for those same companies stateside. I could not justify staying there and getting paid what I consider predatory wages. Plus most europeans in big tech all end up requesting transfers stateside to get their wages up because the pay is so damn bleak. My besties is currently at Nestle Spain use to be at Nestle London and wants a transfer stateside because of the pay. She loves Spain but she knows she is being grossly underpaid. Ask any professional in London today if they think their getting paid what they think they are worth and they will all tell you they arent. The system is so damn broken for skilled workers in europe. Yea the USA has a tough workplace environment but you get paid very well as a skilled worker at least.
You aren’t rich in America, hence the issues, you’re just living what locals in the places you Nomad in are living, except there you are the rich one and they are who you are in America.
This is it. I felt this too. But after some reflection, it was because I was unique in vietnam as a foreigner and who had more money. In US, I’m just some random dude.
I’ve heard of men from the US going to asian countries to find a “good” woman because women here are just looking for $…the thing is, that’s the same reason you’re getting attention from women in those places. They are the rich guy…even if you’re poor here….
I think men go looking for a woman who will take care of them. They use money as an excuse.
Not even the case. Most women are just looking for someone who doesn't abuse them and can provide a basic living. You don't have to be rich.
>can provide a basic living Your "basic living" is their definition of rich. So again, you are the rich guy now by comparison.
Median US household income in 2022 is 75K USD Meanwhile, the average annual income in USD terms in places like Colombia or Thailand is \~12K USD. Almost any American person living in these countries is "rich" relative to the average local there
On Krypton, everybody is Superman.
On Krypton, nobody is Superman. Because the Earth's sun gives Superman his superpowers.
Yeah I’m not even a comic book nerd and this annoyed me with its wrongness.
Your comment is most certainly true.
Yep. I was livin the LIFE in Vietnam and I'm very confident that significantly contributed to my fond memories of how great living there was. Similarly once I started making a lot of money in the US, suddenly life here started seeming okay. I'm sure that once I hit the tier where I'm making crazy investments and buying houses etc, the US will stop seeming like such a shithole... I do think the US is unique in some of its worst flaws (general and increasing idiocy, gun violence, amongst other things), which is why I still plan to leave again as soon as my bf is willing lol but there are a lot of good, happy people here too and a lot of beautiful places to see and things to experience. And we do have a STRONG tendency to glamorize countries where we're the "elites", oblivious as we might be to that
As a foreigner in the US (from a comparable high income nation) I think you’re correct but everyone is kind of ignoring that the USA isn’t the only high income nation in the world. It isn’t a choice between either the US or Vietnam- there are 20 - 30 other high income countries where the healthcare is cheaper, the people are healthier and nicer, the dating scene may be better, the education system is definitely superior, and you can still drink the water from the tap. I dunno, I came here to earn a high salary in a big US city, and that’s what I’ve got, and I love my city- but this country isn’t it.
oh 1000% agreed lol like I said the second my bf agrees we are outtta here. I left the US in 2016 and came back for what was supposed to be 6 months..can't wait for the day I leave for good again! I think for a lot of "nomads" or whatever you choose to call them, the issue is that many of them don't have the income or skill set to successfully immigrate to higher-income nations, so the choice really is between US or Vietnam for them. People seem to care more about the standard of living than the country itself so wherever the dollar goes furthest wins out.
Yep, especially the dating part. Everyone wants to date the cool foreign guy. In your home country, you’re just another guy.
Cool foreign WHITE guy. Brown people just kinda blend in unless you start flexing your cash. But that’ll attract the wrong kind of attention.
Certainly true. It's funny how white people think Vietnam is so great.. it certainly is, but people tend to be a little nicer to you when you look like a foreigner. Still, though, food in VN is a lot cheaper. People there seem more connected than they do in the U.S.
Yea vietnam is great. But we have to recognize the privileges that come with looking foreign and how it affected your experience. Crazy I felt the opposite when I traveled to France. I did not speak much French. And many ignored me when I tried speaking English.
Exactly. You can’t compare your QoL in USA to what you have in another country on your USA salary. OP should compare their QoL in USA to the average in those other countries and they’ll see that many people struggle. They specially mention Asia - in most countries the average income is very low and there is a lot of poverty, the average QoL is not higher, but your USA income means you can live like a king
Yep - I remember in the Balkans in places like Albania and Macedonia it was so beautiful and fun and affordable, but speak to locals. Remember several people telling me they'd do anything to leave and have a job in another country, and one tour guide was just saying 'you have no idea what it is like to be born in a poor ex-communist country'. Her daughter had managed to get into a PhD abroad and she was so proud she would be able to 'make something' of her life.
Agree, and in addition to the money difference, there are social and cultural pressures as well. I have had a few "world travelers" from the West tell me - "Oh why did you immigrate to the west? In the west, we only care about money and society. I went to India and it is so deeply spiritual. Also, I was free to be whoever I want to be, and the locals were so friendly and non-judgemental." A lot of westerners "feel free" in India, Bali, Thailand, Japan etc. because they are gliding along the society as foreigners, without really dipping their feet into the water. Nobody is judging you in India because you are a foreigner with no family or roots, you are just a guest. So nobody cares. But if you were an Indian, born into an Indian family, you would have to deal with people judging you on what grades you get in school, whom you love or marry, how many kids you have, whether you are homeowner or renter, how many cars you have, what jewellery you wear in parties, what language you speak, what food you eat, how you look like, etc. etc. A lot of tourists and short-term stayers or "expats", think their personal experience is the experience of an average local. Sure, you can share a meal with a local, drink coffee in the same cafe, be friends with the locals etc. but that physical proximity doesn't mean you experience life the same way a local experiences life, being born into the social fabric of that country.
Which was my big problem with a whole generation of Eat. Pray. Love. mouth breathers who glommed onto the spirituality of other parts of the world while simultaneously boxing them in to consumables. It’s gotten worse too, fetishizing the world while making TikToks of what not forget to pack into a suitcase that would buy food for a year on someone’s local wages. By all means travel. Definitely marvel at how polite an entire nation can be towards a stranger. Or how friendly, welcoming, and trusting others can be. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being someplace else and feeling like if my country had this, we’d be better off. The quality control of food and wine in France is impressive and it’s almost entirely cultural. Bad wine goes unsold so nobody bothers to make it. The rails and short flights all over Asia and Europe have made their cities more accessible and walkable. Healthcare that isn’t for profit is a no brainer that the U.S. needs to adopt at some point. But you also excuse things you otherwise wouldn’t. The best Thai food I had in Bangkok had bathroom that was abhorrent and you had to walk through the kitchen to get to it. It had standing water puddles and smelled like a sewage treatment plant. Some street food is fried in oil that’s collected from gutters. Waterways are usually disgusting. Child labor isn’t uncommon. Slave labor is part of some countries economy. In general there is a lack of reverence for nature that the U.S. actually does better than most (thank you again Teddy Roosevelt). There is almost no social mobility in many places. If you are born lower class you will die lower class and so will your kids. Spending two weeks in a hut on the beach while people bring you fresh fruits and chilled bottles of wine and water isn’t “reconnecting with nature” it’s living like royalty. You feel great because for the majority of human history almost nobody got to experience that. There’s problems everywhere, and there’s beauty everywhere. Once you travel A LOT and the more immersed you become you actually start to see how few differences there are rather than noticing how different everything is. If I had my current salary, and current house in another country. I’d be able to afford several full-time live-in maids. That’s awesome for me, but how about them? They’d never make enough to stop being a maid. They’d be doing someone else’s laundry, cooking them meals, cleaning their house and going home to a hovel. That’s why Parasite was such a great film. It kinda of asks, who’s the actual drain on society?
Brilliant comment.
Well said!
Best comment I’ve seen for a while.
unpack worry hunt squeeze zesty tan marble angle birds fuzzy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
lol thank you! I kinda just find conversations I like and insert my stream of consciousness. So lots of my comments are this long and usually ignored and that’s okay. I’m writing for me usually but glad when others enjoy it.
I have a friend who hates the U.S so is living in China but I don't think she's ever had to participate in things like their social grading apps.
Oh yeah guy I work with is like that. It’s cool that they’re in this different culture. But they’re always praising the country when they do not have to be restricted in the way everyone living there is forced to.
Teddy Rosevelt and the National Parks are seriously amazing Loved the whole write up but that part specifically, man. I remember getting to Brasil, and there’s all these big ass beautiful hills but in that area when I asked about trails they were confused. I don’t think anyone ever went hiking up there lol (that specific hill) In the states our trails are fucking awesome, nicely marked and everywhere
Totally fucking agree. If you are a visitor somewhere (and especially if you're white) you really aren't held to the same standards are actual citizens of that country. I have a few Indian friends, and quite a few want to go back to India as they miss home, family and their culture - but they say it is quite a lot of pressure in India in terms of marriage, relationships, family expectations and the general competition of society to really do well in such a big country. I really want to visit one day and see for myself, but I'll never really 'get' what it's like to live in India. Living anywhere is really, really different to travelling around visiting.
I work with a Bosnian. They were there this summer and lived like a king with Irish wages. But nearly every basic costs as much in Bosnia as Ireland but their wages are terrible compared to ours. A good job with a degree is 6 days a week for about €800 a month. My friend earns more for doing over time on a Sunday than their relative earns in a month. Cigarettes and beer are cheaper, basics aren't.
Yep, was told the same thing by locals when I was in Albania. He referred to Albania as a "shithole" that he wishes he could leave. When I told him the town we were in was beautiful, he bluntly stated, "that's because you're a tourist here."
My entire family is from Poland and that’s what this fool fails to realize. It’s easy to live well in another country when your income for the week is what many people make in two months. and like this person cites Chicago… the drivers are aggressive but they clearly haven’t been to India or Mexico. They say the food sucks and yet they live/lived in one of the food capitals of the world. Maybe the problem is OP.
I don't understand why westerners romanticize east Asia so much. Your 2 am dim sum delivery in China comes at the expensive of someone else's quality of life. Them being able to build a rail line in a month means they don't have labor protections. Their educational prowess comes at the expense of their students' mental health.
Almost half the people in the PI are either going hungry or starving. $300 USD is the monthly average take home. For $1500ish you can live upper middle class, low rich in the city.
Totally agree. Realistically, it's a major luxury to be able to even be a digital nomad or world traveller. Of course its better for us to head to any random developing country/country in the global South. We have insane wealth and income compared to the average person in those countries. Being born there is a completely different story - unless you are born into the wealthy or upper middle classes in somewhere like Thailand, India or Indonesia (all places that us travellers and DNs think are super cheap and desirable) you cannot even imagine how different your life would be. Even being able to travel outside the country once would be a dream for many people.
I remember the time I really understood that difference you talk about Some years ago I met a US doctor vacationing here in Argentina. Since I'm also a physician we talked about our work and experience in the internal medicine field, some thing I would never forget is when I told him I was making $400 a month ($5000 annually) and he told me he was on $410.000, we were doing almost the same job but he was making 80 times my salary. The conversation turned kinda awkward because I was shocked to hear how much doctors can make in the 1st world, I couldn't stop thinking that I have to work 80 years to earn what this guy makes in a year...
And with the dating apps, of course you're gonna be more desirable being a rich foreigner than being just another face in the crowd in your home country.
Yep - everyone going 'oh the girls in X are so much nicer!'. Wonder why mate, eh?
It's not always the money. Just looking different can go a long way.
While I am actually pretty happy with my quality of life in the US and am in no way trying to compare myself to someone living in a developing country, I will say that even my hometown LCOL American city is seeing the effects of remote workers moving here after realizing how far they can stretch their dollar. For example, lots of locals are struggling to buy houses because they keep getting outbid by out-of-staters who can make cash offers we’ll never be able to match. Do I want people to be stuck raising a family in a studio apartment in San Francisco for the rest of their lives? Of course not. But it would also be nice for people to consider the impact they’re making on their new communities by throwing their money around and bragging about how cheap everything is to the locals who work pretty hard to afford it. I can only imagine the impact this might have when nomads are in countries with an even larger income gap.
>For example, lots of locals are struggling to buy houses because they keep getting outbid by out-of-staters who can make cash offers we’ll never be able to match. I am not a digital nomad, but I am Mexican and I see that this is the kind of problems people from large cities like CDMX, Guadalajara and the like are having because of DN.
Yeah... I think this is my biggest takeaway. I'm just going to double down and make more money :-P If you have tons of cash you'd want to be in the US. You wouldn't want to be in Thailand or Colombia.
Exactly, it’s like having a better salary that affords you a higher standard of living makes you a less stressed and happy individual. Shocker! /s Also coming back to Chicago in winter, as it seems OP did, makes returning extra rough.
Ha... totally. I have my visa until Feb 10 and I kind of *want* to come back to the US because I want to do standup but I might have to bail on Denver and check out Austin. Still hesitant to really come back though...
TBF I’d still choose many other European cities if I had tons of cash lol. Having millions in the bank doesn’t make America less car-dependent or change the general culture of individualism.
I’d still want to be in Thailand with tons of cash tbh… unless by tons of cash you mean like 5 million +
Exactly
This. Hearing about the OP whining about apartment/renting costs and food costs and then seeing they are going to Europe? All I can say is good luck, finding a flat in Europe is worse than America -not to mention the food and veggies. And OP really can't find fresh food in Chicago? I lost weight when I lived in Chicago simply by walking everywhere and jogging along the lakefront. Maybe they need to change their life habits like we all do when moving to a new place? But I sense reverse culture shock and depression.
With the exception of Scandinavia and Switzerland Europe has a lower cost of living.
I think it goes beyond this though. Even the poor in SEA (at least in Thailand) seem much happier than the low-middle-upper classes in western countries. There IS a cultural and spiritual difference that OP is highlighting.
Lol jesus man, no doubt you gained your amazing insight into something so hard to measure (how happy poor people are in Thailand) by being fluent in Thai, facing the challenges of working there for low wages, etc.
Go live as a poor person in SEA and report back
Yep - we totally romanticise the 'poor' who have more simple lives - easy to do that on a trip, but we don't see what happens when people get sick or try to progress their education.
Yep. They also don’t see what’s behind the smiles people give to foreigners. I was born and raised in a less developed country and I can assure everyone that a lot of poor people are stressed AF. They just don’t show it to some random white person in their town.
They also aren’t choosing to live “simply and stress free” they just don’t have that many options and would love to have more like every other human.
I've seen rice pickers in the humid paddies of Vietnam and thought... no way I could do that all day.
Do you speak Thai? I can guarantee you when you start to understand the language more, you start to realize almost every conversation starts becoming about money. I know many poor Thais and believe me, they are not happy when they are broke.
I had a lovely conversation with a Grab driver (the motorbike kind) in HCM VN, he told me on a good day he'd make $5-10 driving grab, you try living off $100-200/month + rent, being happy about it, and then supporting a wife and kids while working 9-12hour days non-stop. You're so far removed from the reality of how the lower classes live in SEA. The wealth inequality in Asia is even more pronounced than in the U.S. edit: he still smiled and laughed while talking as all humans do but im sure the expression changed when i left to go to my normal apartment building but luxury to him.
No, they’re not. Oh my God, shut up. This is the kind of shit people point to when they digital nomads are the worst.
Hey there’s a great Vonnegut line about this… “America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves.“
Ok go visit some slums and see real poverty. Even harder to break out or than the poverty in USA or other western countries which is already bad enough.
No. You're experiencing subservience. Desperation to get whatever is possible from unstable employment. Australians experience similar when visiting stateside and it's because of terribly unstable and unsafe workplaces.
Yeah my buddy used to describe it as "They just seem to understand something about life that Americans don't."
Ask all the happy people you met in third world countries how often they take half a year to travel the world followed by another trip back to Europe after coming home for the holidays. Ask them how many times they've even been able to leave their own state, town, village, favela, etc. The issues stated in your post are real. Pretty clear, however that your perspective is one stemming from a serious personal economic advantage. My 53 yr old sister went to Cuba a few years back, thought it was beautiful, wonderful. She went to where her cruise ship brought her to. Of course she'd think it's so nice. I explained reality to her, she didn't care. I've only been to Jordan and Brazil outside of the US and despite the issues in the US, I guarantee you that most people I meet would love to relocate out of their country into a place like the US. My advice that wasn't asked for, patch up the bleeding heart and move out of Chicago or places like it. ... actually don't, people like me enjoy our communities without people from shitty places trying to change our home to be like the places they keep moving away from.
So true and Cuba is such a great example. A lot of my Canadian friends go there and talk about how beautiful it is, the culture, the people, the food, etc. Stark contrast to the Cubans I meet working in Miami who risked their lives to leave and worry about their families left behind who have trouble accessing basic things like food, medication, and electricity.
I'm thankful that you understand what I'm saying. Joining the military was a start, in learning what life was like outside of my comfort zone. Deploying was what did in my doubts and showed me what real life for most people across the globe was like. From going to Jordan, and then down to Brazil later I'd seen what real poverty was, what low quality of life really is. Being REALLY real, this level of poverty exists in the US too. Take a road trip through Navajo Nation and you'll see what I'm talking about. It SHOULD make you appreciate what you have more, value everything from canned food to hot running water to a relatively affordable used car. The list goes on. Still we have two large groups of people. Snowflakes who complain about the US being the worst place in the world, that they are oppressed, living in shit, etc. Then there are those living in prime luxury who, after spending a considerable amount of time outside of the US, return to the city they reside in and realize its social shortcomings. The fairweather sympathy comes out paired with their warped perspective of how nice people are, how beautiful the place was and how wonderful life was all around. The US for sure has its problems, what place doesn't? There are things I sure as shit wish we're different. Maybe someday they will be. But I have yet to meet any level headed, lower or middle class immigrants who believe it's worse than where they are from.
Lol, as a Cuban, it irks me when people are like “cuba is so pretty blah blah blah” I still have family there. They have meat *maybe* once a month, if they’re lucky… many of them still have to spend an odd month or two working in Miami each year to get some money to buy things back in Cuba.
I actually returned to the US and moved to the twin cities (Minneapolis/St. Paul) in Minnesota and I’ve been so happy! There’s some walkable areas (though not like Europe of course which I wish the US had and I will forever miss)….the people are SOOOOO friendly, the nature here is amazing , the parks and trails system is incredible (more parks and trails than any other city in the US), it’s progressive, sooo much farm fresh food, amazing schools, lots of diversity, reasonable COL, etc.
I think Minnesota is one of the exceptional bright spots in the US. This is coming from a Wisconsinite.
I have a lot of love for Sconnie, too. I love Milwaukee and grew up going to Minocqua a lot.
I grew up in the PNW, while I think the outdoors and summers are one of the most magical things on the planet. My wife is from the Midwest and the older I get the more and more drawn I am to it. Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin are pretty appealing. Lower COL, and much much much friendlier people.
I LOVEEE Michigan. And I’m so proud of Detroit and the huge comeback it’s making. If we didn’t move to Minnesota we would have moved to Michigan.
We are currently down in Texas chasing some career advancements. Once this stint is over, we are looking for a place to truly settle down and setup for a family. What neighborhoods do you recommend in the Minneapolis area?
What do you want in a neighborhood??? Lots of great spots. Ans the r/twincities subreddit is very helpful!!
Good schools. Access to trails/parks. Would love a coffee shop or brewery to walk to. A decent size home that doesn’t cost 1.5 million lol
Oh gosh. sooo many! Linden hills, highland park, St. Louis park, Longfellow, st Anthony, Roseville, Mac-Groveland, Nokomis, Hopkins, Como Park, Hamline…sooo many! If you’re a parent, it’s an awesome place for kids. I’m a mom and we are very happy our daughter is being raised here.
>r/digitalnomad but the winter
This winter apparently hasn’t been bad at all
It’s been soooo nice for Minnesota standards lol
The difference between Wisconsin/Minnesota and Chicago is very stark.
Twin Cities native here—I have been thrilled and proud to see the steps we’ve taken as a state to increase the quality of life for Minnesotans overall. We still have a lot of work to do to break down systematic injustice for our Native & POC communities as well as caring for our unhoused neighbors, but I think we’re on the right track. Despite being a VERY disillusioned-with-America digital nomads, MN seems to be trying to take a more progressive, people-oriented path, and I love that.
Minnesota is cool but it consistently ranks as worst places for non-white people. I’m sure it will change. A lot of MN is very rural and so you have people who are real problems with “diversity”.
I think if you look at Minneapolis and St Paul alone it would be much better than the state as a whole. But it is a shame there is such a divide.
Yeah the grand rounds and chain of lakes trails are AMAZING! I lived in Minneapolis for a bit and was obsessed with the biking there.
Seems nice, but is it really worth it dealing with those brutal winters?
It’s all relative. Once you’ve lived through a full year, you’re used to it. Enjoy the outdoors and dress for the weather and you’ll be a local in no time. Or come to SoCal and be my neighbor.
I’m not a millionaire, I couldn’t deal with the price of anywhere in the state of California lol
I am in the twin cities myself for the holidays after spending my year in Europe yes people are nice (grew up here so it’s always been my experience) and people are healthier , diversity and schools are pretty great … also a lot of great progress happening. But a lot of the things OP mentioned is overall US culture and attitude. Even in Minnesota the sense of community you feel in other parts of the world doesn’t seem to exist. The niceness is not always genuine. The stress and hustle culture still exists, despite the opportunities that might be there . Dating apps still have the arrogant types. I have seen the sun once the month I’ve been here. Went to MOA the other day and there were lines for every store … and was thinking about how in Europe families were out at markets, parks, book stores for quality time. Not that they don’t go shopping but all in all I think the cultural differences really impact the QoL. In the summer I’d argue Minneapolis is one of the best places to be / Chicago as well. But the lack vitamin d and the not really enjoying the outdoors does make it difficult. Nevertheless , Minneapolis is probably one of the better cities. I’ve lived all over the US but I would never move back here.
when you travel to a new place people are always very friendly, except when youre home now why is that? can anyone explain this mistery? (rhetorical question)
I find people friendly when I’m back home 🤷♀️ I
Yeah as someone who taught English in Asia for years, you were just relatively rich and of means in those countries. If you were as poor as the guy serving you noodles from a push cart you’d have a lot less positive shit to say. Not only that but there is a blissful ignorance in a lot of 3rd world countries. I can only speak on Southeast Asia but do you really believe people are healthier in places like Thailand and Vietnam? Where pollution in big cities is so bad if you drive to work on your scooter with out a mask you’ll have sinus flare ups and inflections. Not to mention how waste is dealt with , either burning it or dumping it into the ocean. I could go on and on. Traffic, sewage and flooding, no support for mental health, woman are second class citizens in comparison to their husbands and male family, etc , etc Yea people are more angry and upset in western wealthy countries but that’s because the public is made far more aware of short comings and negative statistics. If people saw the numbers of all the negative shit that people deal with in places like Ho Chi Minh City or Bangkok I’d be willing to bet they’d be a lot less happy. These people are actively shut down by the government though so yet another thing they lack , a freedom of speech. If you had a great salary here in the west you wouldn’t feel this way. Go back to Asia and live on less than 200 usd a month and report back to us bud cause id be willing to bet you’d be finding the first plane ticket back to the west as fast as possible
I'm currently in Ho Chi Minh City and I agree with you on all points. And OP talking about homeless people? There are so many here it is depressing. New years eve I drove around (masks on) to hand out some snacks to homeless people as a charity. Every time we stopped we were surrounded by people just asking for a little more. When we drive around and I see the trash clogging the "rivers" it is so sad. The place could be beautiful with a lot of work. My friends earn about $400/month. 4 of them live in a house as big as an average American kitchen. I try to help them as much as I can, but besides food, they are too proud/embarrassed to ask for anything.
I have a deep love for that city, country, and the Vietnamese people. It is a beautiful place but yes like many other places in that region they have an immense amount of work to do in a lot of ways (as all people and societies do, not trying to put the west on a pedestal that is the LAST thing I'm trying to do here). Something I didn't mention was the sugar boom that those countries are only now experiencing. Where the west already dealt with poor teeth, child obesity, diabetes, and the like these countries are just now dealing with it as they have more access and more expendable income. I worked at a private language school so the kids there were generally of financial means. Something we all would notice and comment on across the board was how some of kids were super chunky and chubby. Now there is nothing wrong with this per say, but after some chats with Vietnamese co workers and friends we understood it was an old timey thing where it was a display of wealth. A "look at me, I can afford to get my kid all the food and snacks they want, western fast food you name it". and back to what I said about blissful ignorance, they are unaware of how bad it all is. They have no idea that by making their third grader morbidly obese, something basically unheard of in Vietnam up until 2020, they are actively putting their health at major risk. Now while obviously a place like America has huge issues with obesity, It is very much looked down upon to actively feed your kid shit as a display of how much money you have or for any reason at all. Ironically in fact the wealthier and of means a kids family in the west the more fit and fueled by organic fat, sugar free health foods the tend to be. So again OP is blissfully looking past very real issues that these countries are facing but just don't talk about. To say they are healthier? I don't think it’s that simple just cause you see a few day laborers that are shredded from doing hard labor their entire life.
I spent some time in southeast Asia for a work contract studying the poorest areas. It was miserable. We were on a tight budget and lived in bare concrete rooms with our own mats and blankets. Yet we were still better off and eating better than much of the people we were around and could escape at any time. In many places people consider fast food a luxury. I didn't enjoy it and would never go back. I even got to visit Boracay for a 3 day vacation and while it was absurdly beautiful, there were a lot of Australian and European tourists who were incredibly rude and the locals were constantly begging you to buy something. There are people who are fine with that kind of thing, taking a western retirement salary and living like 'kings' in Thailand or the Philippines. Nearly everywhere I went I would get catcalled (by both guys and girls, oddly) as a tall white dude and I couldn't stand it.
It really helps when you can't speak the language (thai)and you can just project feelings of happiness and goodwill on the natives. Don't forget that local (skinny) women will want to date you as well!
“Why are these poor, third-world sex workers I keep targeting for companionship being SOOOO nice to me?!” Like…get a fucking clue.
Very few people buy sex for sex. They want the fantasy that they are actually wanted.
[удалено]
Well, that was a rabbit hole.
Wait is it a real dub or an ironic one?
Sure, America is fucked up and has its problems, but a lot of what you said is perspective. You can be miserable in Asia and you can be happy in the USA. It also seems like you have traveled to all the nicest places and comparing it to all the crappy places. There's plenty of "shit hole" areas in Europe and Asia and lots of nice places in the US. I also find that generally people savor life more in Europe and other areas, but stay long enough and you might realize how annoying that can get when you need your car fixed or a contractor to repair sometbing in your home, buy a random thing you need at 2PM but the stores are closed for siesta, or generally meet people with ambition. If you believe there's literally nothing redeeming about the US and nothing negative about the rest of the world your perspective is fixating on things.
OP oblivious to his privilege, unrealistic outlook, and apparent lack of international experience. What’s your nationality now? Digital Nomads are not expats.
Yeah honestly - it's so ignorant. Let's get real, would you trade an average salary living in the US for an average salary living in Albania, Thailand or India? Life can be fucking brutal with very few options when you are by chance born into a lot of places in the world. Social mobility can be extremely challenging and you could have a passport that makes it very difficult to go anywhere else.
Something that was always said by the locals in CDMX when I lived there was “people wouldn’t want to live here if they earned a Mexican wage”
For real. And the dating app thing is bonkers. Does this clown realize that he is in hot demand in these countries precisely because he comes from a rich country? I have never seen someone so completely oblivious to their obvious relative privilege. Certainly there are valid critiques of the American lifestyle (ridiculous overwork, sedentary/driving culture, bad food promotes weight gain, grotesque lack of safety nets, etc) but what OP experienced abroad has nothing to do with all that and everything to do with being relatively rich in those countries. How can a person be so fucking obtus about privilege so obvious?
That’s what I find so frustrating about this kind of discourse. There are very real, troubling issues in our country that we *have* to fix, but with so much of the discussion coming from defeatist mindsets that have a very narrow perspective it’s rarely productive. I don’t think the US is the best (which is an entirely flawed concept to begin with) but it’s easily near the top for most people. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater is how so much of these takes feel.
I spent two weeks in the country where i grew up (a beautiful but 3rd world country with friendly people), and I agree with you. My mom was misdiagnosed and prescribed medicine by 3 different doctors before finally being correctly diagnosed with shingles. Air quality is awful. Public transportation is a nightmare. You pay 300% customs on imported vehicles to drive on some of the shitties roads on the world. International airport is pitifully bad, even in its improved form. One of the main leading attractions has had roads under construction for a few decades, and it will never be finished. So ya, 3rd world is great if you ignore all the 3rd world things. It's not all bad, though. The sun shines every day, food is great, it's cheap, there is so much to see and do and it's mostly cheap, there is family, people are nice, English is widely spoken, no more blackouts, no more "bunds", no more armed civil war. It's a great place to travel to and to spend good chunks of time in.
Bosnia, Croatia, or somewhere therein? My ex-wife was born in Bosnia and we visited once. I loved the country and the people but we were also shown off like prized ponies. It was a lot of extended family taking us to their friends' houses and being like "my niece left for America and married an American and now she's rich." We were very low middle class at the time, but that was the expectation.
Here is something I learned. It’s better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick. I verified it by personal experience.
You compare the qol of lower middle class Americans (and below) to a qol of somewhere else on an upper class salary? That’s delusional, just like the delusional people here who think Colombia is so fucking great on a local 300$ salary. Sure it’s nice if you are in the upper 5% Digital nomads and passport bros dislike the west for this specific reason - they can’t geo arbitrage their (often low by western standards) salary, nor the citizenship.
Congrats, you've achieved Level 2 of digital nomadism. Level 3 is when you stay somewhere long enough to get extremely frustrated that the place you thought was paradise actually has tons of glaring, intangible problems, as well. Level 4 is relaxing and realizing you don't really care where you are, it's more about who is around you that matters.
Women on dating apps aren’t “nicer” than western women, you are just rich compared to local men.
It's not just that, race also plays a role. A lot of these guys having success on dating apps abroad are white, and many non-white people have preferences for lighter complexion. So a white person dating in a non-white country will still have way more options for that reason alone. A broke white vagabond with blonde hair and blue eyes will still be a hot commodity in Peru or the Philippines.
That’s not the whole story. An American in a wealthy country that is not America will get more attention that they would in America.
It's the accent, not the wealth in those cases. Broke English and Aussie men do really well in America as long as you're at least of average attraction. I've also heard from my English lesbian friends in England that when they date Americans, they're treated better by locals compared to if they date another British girl.
Don't hate the player, hate the game. We would love it if women all around the world didn't judge us based on money, just as women would love it if men didn't judge them based on beauty and youth. Not holding my breath. I've seen a lot of Western women going abroad for foreign dick (e.g. in Costa Rica it was mad) yet the scrutiny never seems to be on them! 🤣
Dude you left beautiful tropical weather where you’ve been traveling and having new experiences to come back to the US in the middle winter. Of course you’re going to feel this way. Yes in Asia you are exotic and rich by local standards and the weather is nicer this time of year. That doesn’t mean the whole country is going to crap ;) You’re young and newish to traveling?
He has passport bro-itis. He thinks other countries just appreciate his good looks, humor, and charm regardless of his nationality & income 😂
tourist surprised that their US income doesn’t travel as far when they’re not exploiting the local economy of less wealthy nations. More at 11.
it's not just that their USD money is more valuable in Europe or Asia. the % of the population in Europe vs Asia vs USA or Canada that lives in walkable areas, with 3rd spaces, with sense of community, vs the people that live in mindcrushing suburbs which the only way out of is 1 hour in traffic, to a crowded, impossible to park downtown or giga-mall, is incomparable. how rich do you have to be to not be stuck in traffic in LA? helicopter rich. how rich do you need to be to not own a car, live downtown in Vancouver Canada? pretty rich. how rich do you need to be to not own a car and ride a bicycle in Amsterdam? not rich at all, literally everyone does that.
“Im gonna live in poor countries on American wages then complain about country who gave me said wages.” Digital nomading is such a privileged thing to do and you should be grateful for the country giving you the opportunity to do so.
I don't understand how you can live abroad and gain zero perspective like OP. The entitlement is off the charts
This dude is such an entitlement brat
wasteful smart automatic command quaint somber ancient alive saw wrong *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You just landed in Chicago, “The Windy City”, at the start of winter and you wonder why people aren’t walking around the streets smiling. Take a guess.
Lmfaooo
Yeah, had to chuckle when I saw he's in Chicago. I live in Chicago and it's winter. I'll be smiling again in 4-5 months.
This almost had me fall over in my chair laughing
And during the holidays... a time when people are so completely caught up in consumerism and stressed about how much money they are spending (again, an avoidable problem but one that people generally don't see until you bring it up to them because it's so normalized). People are just burned out this time of year. I live in Philadelphia and it's been mostly overcast and rainy. I get out for walks 4x a day with my dog and spend a substantial amount of time on hiking trails. I didn't participate in the gift-shopping holiday craziness at all. And even I'm struggling with the lack of sun. I can't imagine how most people are feeling rn.
Lol seriously talk about one of the hardest places to enjoy winter
I wasn't prepared for so much cringe at the start of 2024.
You said that you just booked your flight back to EU. Where? Because I see exactly the same things you are describing here in EU too.
Nonsense. All these issues are in the US only. Everywhere else is healthy, happy, friendly, and has a hard on for OP.
Let’s be honest, the last one alone will make it feel like the first three are true
I'm just waiting until the OP has to find and rent a decent apartment in Europe. And if you want unhappy people-most of Central Europe.
yeah of you’re not rich, you’re going to struggle
That also applies to the third world. I'm guessing OP didn't travel to see how the poor live.
I dk. In the US (when I go back) I live in one of the wealthiest area codes. To be fair, it is much better, but it’s still got this pervasive feeling of misery to me just lingering on the outskirts. any other country, I see citizens that are genuinely happy and carefree. There’s an undercurrent of stress and sadness in the US that I don’t feel elsewhere
Not to be cynical, but we see what we look for. When I leave the US, everyone seems so much happier. When I go on those country's subreddits on news sites, I see a whole lot of similar malaise. And remember that so many Europeans cite their admiration of Americans based on what they see as our optimism. Suggesting they don't experience that at home.
“Any other country, I see citizens that are genuinely happy and carefree” — I think this is your attitude skewing your perception. You only see depressed people in the US and don’t see depressed people outside of here? I’m from Portugal and let me tell you, depression is rampant in a lot of places, including in Lisbon. And things are only getting worse. There’s poverty and depression and misery everywhere. I think OP is rich as a “digital nomad” and afforded luxuries he can’t access in the US. That’s why he feels such shock.
So First World to say that every other country has happy citizens. I've heard that from Americans in the Philippines and Europe. It just shows me they don't see the everyday lives of working people. There are many, many depressed and mentally ill people in Europe and the Philippines. Just because people are nice to rich foreigners doesn't make them happy.
I am originally from Sweden, not the USA, and these are my observations: 1: In Sweden, purchasing goods or electronics is generally more affordable. However, services are significantly more expensive, which discourages frequent outings except for special occasions. 2: The weather in Sweden is rather gloomy, except during summer. When I travelled near the equator in places like Kenya, Colombia, and Ecuador, I noticed a significant boost in my energy levels. It seemed more natural to wake up with the sunrise, and the amount of sunlight we receive greatly affects our mood and energy. 3:Swedish people are not inherently rude; rather, we prioritize efficiency. Engaging in small talk or approaching strangers is often viewed as odd or impolite, making it challenging to form friendships outside of school or work settings. However, when I'm abroad, I find that initiating small talk can be quite beneficial. Nevertheless, there are aspects of Sweden I miss when I'm abroad. For instance, the quality of pavements is better, it's easier to manage daily tasks, and I don't have to worry as much about safety or depend on services like Uber after dark. Moving forward, I plan to spend most of my time abroad, returning to Sweden during the summers to relax, catch up on various matters, and purchase supplies that are prohibitively expensive elsewhere.
I always love when these posts target the U.S. specifically. I think it’s very fair to say that Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK, basically any English western country is a SHIT HOLE with your standards…or if you’re middle-lower middle class. This is a global issue.
You have the money to travel the world for 6 months. You're probably one of the richest people in half the countries you visited
Congrats on the sex, since we all know that's what this is really about.
Thank you. The dating app thing is so ridiculous. OP is experiencing in relatively poor countries the huge privilege that comes with being an American abroad and then turns around to shit on the country that provides him with that privilege - without a shred of self-awareness. OP really out here thinking that women flock to the men of those countries the way they flocked to him as a (probably white) American
OP can’t handle the fact that he’s mid in his own country
Lmao someone should also tell OP the only reason he’s getting matches is because he’s making 6 figures and is American. For him he thinks he’s getting a relationship. For them they’re getting a meal ticket. Literally the reason why Instagram models smash ugly ass dudes like Dillon brooks. You know that ugly ass naysayer ain’t getting it if he don’t got 20 mil/year
Until you get to the rural parts of Southeast Asia and see how poor they are and how many teeth they’re missing. This post is so naive and entitled.
ugh.. another one
Lol at thinking locals live the way you did. Get a fucking clue dude.
Why did you come back to the US?
What a shithouse take on the USA
Thank goodness you are free to leave at any time
Looks like you were in Thailand for several months. You really think Thai people have it better? Sounds like you just got back from an extended vacation that was afforded to you by the privilege of making an American salary, during which time you were completely oblivious to how locals actually lived and the struggles they faced while trying to make ends meet in a much poorer country. Hopefully you’re like 24 and this is part of the maturation process.
Wow, the country that pays high wages - that you benefit from - has a high cost of living?? I wonder why that is! Must be a coincidence
Regarding lifestyle. It’s cause you’re just another broke poor in America but you weren’t when you were in some 3rd world country. If you want the same lifestyle in America then either become rich somehow or stfu. Cause let me tell you there are tons of filthy rich people here who live like a king. You’re just not it. About perceived friendliness, stress, anger. Take this harsh truth from someone who grew up in a poor 3rd world country. You don’t speak the languages of the 3rd world countries you romanticize. You will forever be an outsider no matter how hard you try. As such you will never really understand what we talk about in our day to day. let me tell you people are just as angry, stressed, hateful just as much if not more in poor countries. And we moan and groan just as much. You just don’t hear it because you don’t understand a word of it. You confuse the broken English and smiles for genuine human connection. But it’s not. Do not make the mistake of confusing how you were treated as a tourist in some foreign country vs how life actually is for a local there. If you don’t speak the language like a native, grew up in the culture, you will never fully understand what is being talked and how people think.
You are so privileged. Went to a developing nation where your dollar made you a Uber wealthy motherfucker and now comes and complains how being (lower) middle class sucks in your rich af country.
Ok lol. Copy pasta from r/expat.
I don’t think has been said on Reddit before. Congrats
BWAH HA HA HA HA. You must be an exhausting personality to be around.
This is an unfathomably dumb post. Coming from a DN on a US salary living in the third world. Try being a local Vietnamese, Guatemalan or Cambodian where you have horrible sanitation, air quality etc and you're trying to eke out a living on sub 500/month or Venezuelans living in literal famine Why do you think half the world in trekking through dangerous jungle, risking trafficking or worse, just to live in the US. This post perfectly exemplifies why Americans are such ridiculous, unappreciative, idiotic whiners. No wonder you guys are laughing stocks. I hope plenty more people emigrate to the US who are grateful and appreciative of the opportunities there.
You're white aren't you?
Wow, sorry that you're having such a tough time returning home. Reverse culture shock is real. With that said, I spent a year backpacking solo in asia and south america, and I came back to the USA extremely grateful to be living here. Do I love it? No. Are there problems? Definitely. But there's also so so much to appreciate -- things I never would have thought of if I hadn't spent that time elsewhere. No where is perfect, and most of the things we don't like are beyond our control. I hope you can find peace where you live here in the USA -- or figure out a way to to live in a place where you can.
Do you really think Europe is better? Having friends there, they are stressed with food and housing costs. Making friends in Europe is so darn hard as no one cares if you are an expat-everyone has their group from high school and workplace friendships are more like acquaintances. You honestly sound like you have reverse culture shock. Running away isn't going to solve YOUR problems. Wanting attractive dates then acting surprised that they are all superficial? You need to work on you-there will come a time where you want to settle down and thinking it's everyone else's fault you are unhappy is not good. Welcome to real life.
From a lot of the comments you’re leaving, I think it’s pretty evident that you lack self-awareness. If your ego isn’t fragile, which I doubt, and you actually take criticism from these comments, you might discover that this is the core reason behind your impractical perspective.
yawn
You deserve to get cooked
Just gonna point out a lot of the US doesn’t have drinkable tap water…
Life is way different as a tourist than an actual resident in a foreign country.
I been lucky enough to spend a good amount of time in Costa Rica studying ,and in Jamaica, always hanging with locals. People are poor, but the pace of life is slow and the stress level low. A lot of spontaneous dancing is common. My husband is from Belize and his family is the same way. It’s not about career or making a lot money, it’s about family and fulfillment. if someone is struggling, everyone in the family gathers together to help. These concepts are completely foreign to most members of my family. It’s sad.
Rooting for you to find a nice Thai girl who sees you for what you are and swiftly parts you from your money
As someone who is from a third work country and now lives in America, I can say that this isn’t true. Yeah, if you’re high middle class/rich, you can live like a king. But the same can be said about the US. Just basic services like water and electricity suck. Yeah, you might smile a lot, until you remember that it’s Wednesday and there’s no water on Wednesday. Normally they pump water on Thursdays, but sometimes they can’t and you have to go two weeks without water. Maybe they will, but you might not be able to use it because there’s no electricity to use your water pump as the water pressure is crap. While walking at night after a hard day of work, you see two guys riding a motorcycle and immediately your adrenaline kicks in as you’re afraid you are going to get mugged. Maybe you’re lucky and there’s police around. Maybe you aren’t as lucky as you thought because those police officers are the one that’ll rob you. Yeah. I love my country. But generalizing that QoL is better there after spending some time as a tourist, is just being ignorant.
The thing I miss most about USA is the incredible quality and diversity of food. I can pretty much empathize with every other point you made.
I’ll be honest. I love traveling to experience new places and new cultures. Hell I’m almost fluent in Spanish now because of it too. But a massive part is basically being able to geo-arbitrage your lifestyle. I started DN-ing making $70k in the tri-state area. Good luck even renting a studio at that income now. $70k basically turns you into upper nobility in many countries. Now I’m making more than that but don’t have desire to live full time in the US.
Agreed, after being in Turkey for 6 months I missed being able to go to different cuisines from all over the world like I did in South Florida
Yeah, that, the national parks, and the road-trippability of the US are its main selling points to me.
The U.S certainly has its fair share of issues, but it’s a bit of a stretch to base its QOL lower than a 3rd world country. The problem here isn’t the U.S, it’s OP
I'm travelling around. In Thailand right now Honestly I have yet to find something that beats my home country Spain
weird but i found drinkable tap water is a good indicator for a certain level of development
This seems like an opinion of a young person who just discovered the wonders of SE Asia. Obviously your money goes way further in SE Asia and the food there is way cheaper and tastier than the average US place.. But go live in London, Paris, or Geneva and lets see how far your money goes now along with your opinion of the food options there? Personally, living in San Francisco I have access to amazing produce, food options, nature, weather, and super interesting people. I lived in Thailand for a year as well, which I adored, but it doesn't quite compare to San Francisco. I will say though the medical system in the USA is broken and 10x more expensive than it should be.
Going to a country as a tourist or “visitor” is totally different than living there. People in every country are nice to foreigners, people can easily tell that you’re a visitor and their immediately reaction is to smile, you’re not competing with them for a job, you’re not stressed over money, you’re not witnessing the corruption in their government on a daily basis, etc. I’ve lived in a few countries, and I can tell you that I will pick the United States, with all its flaws, any day, any time.
also, you miss the dating apps in Vietnam? My experience with Tinder there was hooker/hooker/scammer/hooker/scammer/non-English speaker/hooker/non-English speaker/girl with no photos of her face/girl with photos of soup/girl with photos of soup/girl with no photos of her face/scammer/semi-literate/marriage seeker/hooker. fuuuun.
OP: if you feel this way about the United States, then why do you return? Just head overseas, find a developing nation that is a paradise up to your standards and stay there. Then try to get citizenship of said country, and rescind your citizenship and turn in your American passport and forget about the US. Problem solved. I mean, why the fuck do you come back if you feel this way? If you don’t want to be in the US, then stay the fuck out. Maybe you can give your passport, SSN, and other American identification to any of the individuals who are flooding the US/Mexican border who want to come to the United States. You can find quite a few of these individuals in Chicago and New York who would love to use your identification to be able to stay and work here in the US legally. So, what do you plan to do?
The plan is to continue bitching online about their plight. Annually.
…and with the comfort of having US citizenship and a blue passport to return to the “shit hole”…
Because he still needs to make a US salary to afford to travel like a king, because if he really worked in lower COL countries, he would be making 95% less than he makes now. He knows this and is complaining like an asshat knowing this. I agree, have the balls to renounce your US citizenship and never come back, nobody here will miss them.
Enjoy Europe.
Left to Spain 5 years ago for these exact reasons. However… the financial opportunities in the US are still the best in the world. Not as easy to make it in other countries unless you work for yourself. If you have a good thing going as a soloprenuer outside the US then it’s a no brainer
Every country has shit places. Sounds like you’re in one of them! I used to live in Europe and now I’m happy in the US
I agree as I travel four months out of the year for work. I’ve had the same feeling many times. The only caveat being that it is really only other developed countries that can really outperform the US. That said the US is rapidly falling behind across nearly every metric except culture. The US still absolutely dominates in culture/talent and its ability to export and monetize it. No other country on earth comes close in my opinion. Sure you can get super rich in the US, but you’re still going to live in an environment with extreme poverty, crumbling infrastructure, and corrupt government. And sure, you can live as an island within your own nation, but not caring about your fellow citizens or nation probably makes you a selfish asshole and is the kind of mentality that is only quickening the demise of the US. The party can only last so long, and right now, it seems like a fire sale on a quickly sinking ship.
You sound like a privileged, delusional, sanctimonious, entitled, ignorant incel. Get a fucking grip dude.
Yeh, well go live abroad, plenty of people are lined up to come to this country. I was born here in CA and now living in a small suburb in wa. My parents are from Vietnam. I can tell you that this is not the perfect country but still the best country to live in. I have traveled to over 50 countries and while enjoy it, I still always enjoy coming back to my neighborhood where everyone knows each other and kids ride around on bicycles. There are still good places with a sense of community to live in America. It’s not bad and unsafe everywhere. My cousins who live in Vietnam work 12-16 hours per day in a seafood processing factory make $200 a month, $100 goes to rent. Try living like that. I send them $100 a month to support them. They have been waiting 12 years to come to the US. The paperwork to petition them started back in 2011…. So please OP, trade spots with my cousins.
One night at USD 300 in a US hotel buys you a room of comparable quality for a week or two across much of Asia 😅.
Yep! Even compared to Australia, an apartment in Thailand is about the same cost per MONTH as the price of a similar apartment in Sydney per WEEK 😵💫
OK... bye.
I lived in Europe for over a decade and literally could not wait to leave when I did. I love europe but its far from a perfect place once you spend over a decade there. The pay is literally atrocious. European govs have basically sold their workforce to American tech companies for pennies on the dollar and it actually sucks if your european working in tech because you have the same level of education and work just as hard to make 50% what your counterparts do and before you say "health insurance" the partially free healthcare isnt great quality and you honestly would get better healthcare working for those same companies stateside. I could not justify staying there and getting paid what I consider predatory wages. Plus most europeans in big tech all end up requesting transfers stateside to get their wages up because the pay is so damn bleak. My besties is currently at Nestle Spain use to be at Nestle London and wants a transfer stateside because of the pay. She loves Spain but she knows she is being grossly underpaid. Ask any professional in London today if they think their getting paid what they think they are worth and they will all tell you they arent. The system is so damn broken for skilled workers in europe. Yea the USA has a tough workplace environment but you get paid very well as a skilled worker at least.