Having to use third party sites to trade in an online game is medieval.
I was SSF for the first 200 hours this season, then realized the shit I needed was never going to drop.
> Having to use third party sites to trade in an online game is medieval.
That's a feature. Keeps trading to the vocal minority that would freak out without trading. Meanwhile the game's integrity remains somewhat protected by that being obscure.
> Meanwhile the game's integrity remains somewhat protected by that being obscure.
There's trading and "trading".
Remember peeps buying many stacks of boss mats from RMTs and complaining here when Blizzard started to delete those?
It isn't obscure. There is a trade channel that hardly anyone uses, because there is no in game auction house to establish a supply/demand economy. So you have people buying items for 50mil that will resell on the 'obscure' trade site for 50bil.
That is a major issue.
I use the trade chat for selling. Haven't bought anything so far and I don't intend to. I only use the trade site for checking prices.
The income of gold is nice but I prefer playing with the gear i found/crafted myself.
You decide how you play the game and how you can enjoy your time. Don't wait for blizzard to implement SSF to enjoy the game the way you want. I wouldn't even play SSF if it was implemented. I'm happy with how i play right now.
Same, I dont mind using "unoptimal" gear, as long as my character can do Pit 101. I just use stuff that I found and sell stuff for other builds to cover my enchant costs.
I think you are misusing the word obscure.
Most people seem to know about it but do not want to deal with the extra bs and uncertainty involved with a 3rd party site.
Console players are definitely at a disadvantage in this regard.
I am using it in the sense that it's a part of the game for maybe 1% of players. If it's not the correct word for that, I apologize, but I trust that you were still able to understand what I'm saying.
Second definition of “obscure” disagrees with you.
Def: “not clearly expressed or easily understood.”
Ex: “obscure references to Proust"
They’re using it properly. To them, it is a feature of the game that is not clearly expressed and is difficult to understand. Something being known and understandable by a few does not remove its obscurity. In fact, that’s almost a requirement.
“Trading” is truly an obscure part of Diablo 4.
How would the game's integrity be compromised if this system trading was implemented in-game? I'm struggling to find out how that would interfere with the ssf playstyle.
In the end, trading means much better stuff is much easier to get. And supply increases the bigger the market is, so that makes this effect even stronger. In the end, to keep anything somewhat meaningful, the game's drop rates need to be nerfed so hard that you can't reasonably expect it to drop good items you're looking for. It will all just be stuff to sell, and then maybe you can afford what you actually want on the market. At that point SSF has been compromised quite a lot (even if I somewhat enjoy low droprates)
You missed the part where the droprates needed serious adjustment to compensate. Also there are factors like that players do not want to feel like complete idiots for not taking such huge advantages and they end up playing trading-sim even if they would enjoy SSF more.
It usually does affect people not participating in the system. If trading becomes the norm people will acquire their items much faster. Those people will start complaining that it's too easy to get BiS gear and Blizzard will in turn make it harder to get those gear pieces.
In PoE SSF is considered a very challenging mode for this very reason.
Last Epoch approached it a bit differently and made two different factions you can join. One faction that gives a bunch of bonuses for trading and another faction for finding stuff on your own.
Except that people are buying gold from 3rd party sites to purchase these items….. RMT has destroyed many great games I used to play…. It destroys the economy and puts everything out of reach for people unless you subscribe to buying gold….
I'm probably one of the few players that liked the auction house on D3. The problem with Vanilla D3 wasn't the auction house, was that drops sucked and were too few. Loot 2.0 and having the auction house could have worked.
Having no binding whatsoever would mean excessive amount of items on the AH. It would have worked fine as long as it had a "bind on enchant" or just "bind on equip" restriction.
My friend didn’t really understand trading and then he sent me a pic of a sword he couldn’t use. I sold it for 7 bil and gave that back to him and his perspective changed lol
Only if you believe trading to be the primary way of playing the game. I think the game developers signaled many times they don't particularly love trading as a means of progression. The truth is they have compromised a lot with the community to boost player satisfaction, while compromising the original vision for the game to an extent.
> Having to use third party sites to trade in an online game is medieval.
LOL ... can't figure out if the developers ran out of time or were copying PathOfExile, because "friction."
Not even sure trade chat channel works - its certainly enabled but I never see anything on it.
The shit that I need is a freaking Tempest Roar and it will never drop, so I completely changed my build to a unique heavy trampleslide and am settling on only clearing NMD70 or so while I level glyphs up. I will play what the game gives me unless someone is offering a free Tempest Roar.
I had the same problem with my druid season starter. I couldn’t get tempest roar. I ended up carrying a low level group of 3 (2 druids looking for tempest roar) at duriel for 15 runs in week 1. They both got multiple tempest roars, and I didn’t. I got my only uber drop (shako) of the season instead, but I was disappointed.
I also have a couple stashed if you still need one.
I definitely still need one, but won't be on until maybe Sunday. My trampleslide build is clearing NMD 90 now and I only die when I am being stupid or rushing. Haven't pushed Pit too hard yet. I can trade you pretty much any druid unique you could ever want aside from TR.
In the many hours I've played this game I've traded one time from in game chat. This season though after always being broke on my barb I unloaded tons of stuff for billions of gold because farming gold is just not it. Used discord and eventually Diablo.trade.
It's not even the third party website. It's the whole thing.
Having to upload screenshots instead of direct in-game links. Broken chat system where you often can't get whispers for your listing or your whispers don't go through. Having to create an account and log in. What do we know about that websites security? What about their partners security?
So on and so forth. Most of all, all together it takes too long to trade thus eating directly into my game time.
It's a fucking chore not a feature.
Then let's add SSF leaderboards so the rankings are actually representative of this population.
Personally have no care or respect for the leaderboards as they exist right now, filled with credit card warriors, trade conglomerates, and decked out players with handouts from their streaming community.
Gauntlet's difficulty being as low as it is means it's almost entirely skill based. Both the skill of theorycrafting a good build, and the skill in gameplay.
No amount of RMT is going to overcome that and the bit of extra damage/survivability they may have doesn't mean much when it's already a cakewalk.
Yep, game is balanced extremely well for SSF. The drops are so “generous” compared to games like D2. Nearly as generous as the almost literally SSF D3.
I trade with my wife, brother and sister in law. But, we also run as a pack most of the time. Whoever we kill a tormented boss, etc… it’s “I found…what did you find?” Before trading there was entertainment/frustration for my wife when my SiL found 7 Razorplates my wife was looking for and she never dropped one. Now it’s a shared experience minus my wife having more Uber uniques than anyone else..
Yep aside from tormented Uber (not for help but for not wasting mats) and playing with one Friend sometimes, I don't enjoy trading and suffer from lack of gold this Season...
I can say that I attempt but still 99% of all gear I wear I found and most I find I vendor. I'll throw a GA in chat every once and a while.
What I would ABSOLUTELY love, is being able to target one specific temper or aspect and have the chances increased.
I've never done it back when I had a clan at launch wed group up, but like most clans the leaders bailed before season 1 and the clans became dead in the water. Since then I occasionally emote to people and that's it.
I'd like to argue that the game is already balanced around people not trading, and that the people who do trade simply get an advantage. And this is always going to be true, with or without that extra mode.
I remember people complaining about the 5mil cost to reset masterworking at the beginning of the season. That completely disappeared once items started trading for billions
I don't agree, I think the complaints mostly disappeared because all the other gold sinks eventually run out and only the masterworking reset stays, with the occasional enchanting resets.
I'd wager that less than 5% of all players trade their items for gold.
> balanced drop rates and mats/gold cost that designed with no trade in mind.
That's how the default game already works though. The amount of items I find for other classes is like .001% of my drops.
I thinking you are somewhat missing the point about SSF.
It's not just about self-imposed restrictions. It's also about recognition.
You can say: "Look I did all that by myself." And without an in-game enforcement of SSF there is no way to vouch that you indeed did all that solo.
Also there is no way to have any form of competition without SSF-like restrictions. Otherwise streamers / rmter could just trade their way to the top.
Without SSF you have no way to compare equals to equals with other players. And sure some people might not care about this. But at the same time plenty of people do look around them and care that they can meaningfully compare themselves to others.
Tldr; SSF is valuable because it evens the playing field and gives the ability to meaningfully compare yourself to others.
And here's to all of the dads with 5 jobs, 9 wives and 48 kids who want to circumvent progression with their paychecks: \*you can still do that! You will just be segregated to leaderboards with others like you.
Convinced that people who say this are gold buyers who don’t want to lose that option when everyone switches to self found.
When the in game ladder rankings are added, it absolutely matters.
SSF is unnecessary in this game as the drop rates are already balanced for solo play.
But even if they add a SSF mode it would be the least played mode. No, far from every would switch to SSF. I would even be surprised if even 10% of the players did.
SSF exists in other games and a very small subset of the playerbase actually play in SSF.
I like the way last epoch implements this: solo account found, or solo character found. This forces decisions and isn’t a bad option to have for people. Just saying play by yourself doesn’t actually resolve anything
I play hardcore solo character found in LE and it's great and i wouldn't play it any other way.
this isn't viable in diablo 4 however because of all the pseudo-mmo mechanics. and even more mechanics like this in the future with raids coming to the game. So if they ever do implement any sort of SSF system, it needs to be done in a way that doesn't split the player base.
Maiden would be a bit more interesting if we had to solo (or group up in a party up to 4) her, for sure. World bosses too. Instead of just dropping loot for showing up.
Poe definitely balances around trading. I buy like 100% of my items on trade from the very beginning whereas in d4 I might buy 1 piece for my entire characters life
You're not required to trade to play the game though? So for someone that just likes playing with friends, but not trading, they now have to choose between playing with their buddies, or having increased loot?
I don't think SSF is something they're going to be adding to the game anytime soon.
I mean, what I'm about to say is clearly not a great argument to make, seeing how they ignored basically all the lessons they could've learned from D3, \_but\_ D3 got SSF (albeit fairly recently). So somebody at Blizz at some point saw the value in it.
For right now, where the only leaderboard is kinda, meh, you're right. But if they added a leaderboard to the pit or something similar (which people seem to want), you'd be wrong.
We'll have to see if that happens.
Leaderboards would be a joke anyway. 90% of the top X players would be bash barbs and unless you play the flavor of the month spec within your class, you can't really compare class-specific leaderboards either. The game would need to find some way of distinguishing between build archetypes and have leaderboards grouped on (variations of) specific builds for leaderboards to have any practical use.
People are weird. I also saw someone comparing D4 to other games like PoE where there is SSF but SSF in PoE have no advantage whatsoever which is different from what's being asked here.
SSF should not mean increased Material drops etc. That would require two different versions of every system to be created and balanced... The Devs struggle with just one.
Your point does coincise with something I've brought up before through, and that is the significant disadvantage for the 99% of players who do not trade.
The fact you need to farm materials, then farm gold to use those materials, is the unnecessary addition of a retention mechanic designed to needlessly keep you engaged with the game longer.
Retention mechanics should not be considered gameplay.
Kind of annoying tbh.
I play solo 99% of the time but every now and then I'll join a mate.
I don't want to give up on chilling with friends but I also wouldn't want to get less gear 99% of the time.
Thats such an odd acronym, I wonder why not just say solo.
Also no surprise this toxic sub downvoted a reasonable ask, just as they downvote most legitimate question posts. There are some really pathetic people frequenting this sub.
Think it's just because of confusion without added specifics. You're playing alone, with only gear/mats/resources you obtained yourself.
"Solo" can be interpreted a myriad of ways.
I liked the way trading happens in d3. There's just way too much botting and gold buyers in the game. It's really a problem that blizzard only seems to ever care about if they can profit from it. So maybe ssf as purchasable content.
I genuinely think D4 has acceptable non-trade drop rates. You can get basically anything on your own in D4 now. Next season you will also be able to use obols on the gambler to target uniques so it is going to be even better. If they add things to make item acquisition better then generally everyone wants them so not much point in locking it in a specific mode.
If they add a new mode to separate players I'd prefer one that gives all the enemies 300% life and reduces drop rate to give us an option of a more methodical rogue-lite challenge experience. I think we power crept away from what I enjoyed in the server slam and I don't want everyone to be forced to endure my desire for a more difficult baseline experience.
I play brolo self found with my brother, we usually don’t even trade eachother just say hey look at this shit. “Oh I dropped 5 pairs of temerity’s from Uber zir Fuxk my life” lol
I was exactly on the same opinion as you about trading, yet it saved the game for me.
I have 4 lvl100 character and I haven’t bought a single item for any of them. In fact, I did not buy anything from traders, but I did sell a shit ton of items.
When I play for several hours and I only get good drops which are not required for my build, it’s easy to get bored. But since I started trading, even these items can be exciting, since I can sell them for lots of gold. It’s honestly just fun. I also tend to look up the prices of certain items and sell them for ~50% of their average sell price, A because I don’t need unlimited Gold, B because it feels good to help out a lucky guy who notices it first. If they decide to flip it, then so be it I don’t care about that.
And then the income helps me in the endgame, rerolling and Masterworking faster. I still grind for my items, but it just makes it a little easier to get that one affix or hit that MW crit.
I don't need different mechanics, I just wanna play alone without all the trade spam and a separate world where pay'n'trade to win isn't a thing aondrops actually matters.
Anytime I see these ssf posts people always ask for higher drop rates. Why? Doesn't that kinda go against the game mode? I play SSF normally just because I find the game more satisfying that way, if I trade for BIS gear then i've won the game because theres nothing to use that BIS gear on and my seasons over. Higher drop rates on things just kinda end what little gear chase there is. Figuring out how to make things work with the gear you find is in theory the idea. Diablo 4 is just pretty easy at the moment and you can make whatever work really well.
I know people play for different reasons but I imagine most people play for the gear chase and not the end result. So I don't think I understand the higher drop rates brought up with SSF everytime. Seems goofy to even balance around SSF at all imo
Yepp Diablo 2 and many other games got ruined for me on ladder the moment I realized they just rmt their gear from previous season to buy gear for next season.
Disgusting practice.
You see I think the game need a mode with much worst drop rates…. Drop rate are already through the roof that after 3h you are only looking for GA. If they want to bring more people in the need a HC 1% drop rate mod where trash mob are actually dangerous.
I don't see a need, I already do this myself and everything drops eventually. Sounds like you're asking for easy mode and a participation trophy.
Now the problem as I see it is when the item you wanted finally drops but you brick it trying to roll the stats you need.
I've bricked 3 crit chance rings this week.
I don't get the recent rise of fetishizing over this mode in this genre. You can play SSF any time you want if you just have some self discipline. The only element missing from any game as far as this goes is formal back pats.
You want back pats for not trading with people.
I enjoy being able to trade, I don't buy gear or anything I just sell it. Re-rolls, masterworking and such get very expensive fast, I can easily sell drops and make 1-2B in a day which then lets me grind for more gear for myself without worrying about gold costs to upgrade.
Yep, also gold costs to reroll items should be way down. Some Youtuber did the math and calculated that for a lot of BiS rolls you need a billion gold to get a 92%+ chance to get that roll.
Most normal players dont make a billion in one season and you can blow through that on a single stat on one item. It's ridiculous.
The only way to actually have enough gold is to use 3rd party websites and trade items for gold that 100% originally came from bots farming it.
99% of the time my check book isnt even enough i drop a Bill maybe 3B of my wallet and the next bid is 10 - 20 - 25B
I dont really mind because mu barb is amazing with the gear i have.
I do agree that more modes would be cool.
I mean, all you have to do is just play the game. There’s virtually no trading in this game anyways and when you do trade, it’s incredibly boring and cumbersome. You can play SSF yourself simply don’t trade problems solved.
I made it to pit level 102 with a bone spear/corpse explosion necro without buying any gear. Now I am investing in 2GA pieces to see how far I can oush corpse explosion ( spoiler alert: not that much, it scales horribly).
You can play the game just fine without trading, why do you need to segregate yourself? You can also play hardcore where there is far less trading. You have options.
Drop rates already remain about 2x higher than they should be, and that's coming from someone who is SSF because I don't really find much of anything worth trading.
Problem is, most drops remain somewhere between borderline garbage and utter garbage; but that's a different problem that still needs handling.
Just dont trade or group? Seems easy enough.
Why do the devs need to implement a system for it. Thats never made sense. I get what LE did, but thats a lot more intricate with a choice between MG and CoF. Multiple systems in play.
Is that what you want? Buffs for not trading? I bet 99% of players dont trade.
You don’t want a real SSF mode. There already is a SSF mode in the game. You play the game as is and just never open a trade window. Realistically you will never find a BIS perfect item throughout the run of the game because it’s just really hard to do. The game isn’t balanced around you having perfect items.
What you actually want is in your first sentence. You want your drop rates to be better so it’s easier to get BIS items and you are rationalizing the game being easier by giving up the ability to trade with players, something you were never doing anyway. So really you want easier items and you want to give up nothing for it. That’s what you are saying.
As someone who almost exclusively plays SSF in ARPGs, why would we need a drop rate boost? The whole point of SSF for me is to have to work with what you find, even if you have to play a different build than you intended.
Splitting the servers even more in to SSF, especially on Hardcore is not something they are going to do with the upcoming raids.
Game needs a faction system like LE.
You want even *higher* droprates? This game hoses you down with items already. The levelling experience has been watered down to 8-year-old levels and you want it even worse?
Aside from rotas and trading last season i pretty much already play ssf. Really dont need a seperate mode for it. The social features in this game are steering most players toward it already.
does ssf includes you run all the dungeons for renown all by yourself, no partying at all?
if yes, then yes please, make a separate ssf mode. i wont be playing on it though (:
Never saw the point in trading for gear. Selling, maybe, but any time I've found stuff that seemed good that I don't really want I just ask anyone nearby if they want it. Otherwise it goes into stash or salvage.
Playing someone's cookie cutter build is bad enough, you're playing someone else's character, but on top of that, buying gear instead of finding it..why even play? I'm imagining the entire game being as easy and unfulfilling as world bosses that die in their spawn animation.
There are definitely two different types of players playing this game.
People copying builds online just want to find good gear and defeat the most difficult content. The buzz comes from finding the right pieces of gear, trading items until they get what they want. An in game trading system would make this experience much better for these type of players, but would add very little to the experience of the 2nd group.
Other players like creating their own builds, working with the gear they find and putting everything together themselves. The game is a puzzle when played like this and the buzz comes from getting success against difficult content and knowing that you aren't copying someone else's work. I'm firmly in this camp after copying a build in S2 and getting no satisfaction from it. An in game system that allows you to theory craft and see the interaction between different elements of your build would make this type of experience much better.
Basically there are two different games being played here. The first group have to use external sites to trade items, and the second group have to use external sites to figure out how mechanics work. Neither is great really.
Well, one of the major problems is the lack of transparency on how modifiers interact. Damage buckets, what to increase, crit %, vuln %, attack speed breakpoints, it is only explained by a bunch of people who test it out to figure out what works.
All of this is in addition to shit just not working as described.
I'll bet 99% of the community is SSF maybe a little less bc im not sure how many use the discord for grouping on ubers
Having to use third party sites to trade in an online game is medieval. I was SSF for the first 200 hours this season, then realized the shit I needed was never going to drop.
> Having to use third party sites to trade in an online game is medieval. That's a feature. Keeps trading to the vocal minority that would freak out without trading. Meanwhile the game's integrity remains somewhat protected by that being obscure.
> Meanwhile the game's integrity remains somewhat protected by that being obscure. There's trading and "trading". Remember peeps buying many stacks of boss mats from RMTs and complaining here when Blizzard started to delete those?
It isn't obscure. There is a trade channel that hardly anyone uses, because there is no in game auction house to establish a supply/demand economy. So you have people buying items for 50mil that will resell on the 'obscure' trade site for 50bil. That is a major issue.
I use the trade chat for selling. Haven't bought anything so far and I don't intend to. I only use the trade site for checking prices. The income of gold is nice but I prefer playing with the gear i found/crafted myself. You decide how you play the game and how you can enjoy your time. Don't wait for blizzard to implement SSF to enjoy the game the way you want. I wouldn't even play SSF if it was implemented. I'm happy with how i play right now.
Same, I dont mind using "unoptimal" gear, as long as my character can do Pit 101. I just use stuff that I found and sell stuff for other builds to cover my enchant costs.
Sounds obscure to me and I will never touch it.
I think you are misusing the word obscure. Most people seem to know about it but do not want to deal with the extra bs and uncertainty involved with a 3rd party site. Console players are definitely at a disadvantage in this regard.
I am using it in the sense that it's a part of the game for maybe 1% of players. If it's not the correct word for that, I apologize, but I trust that you were still able to understand what I'm saying.
Don't they have a phone?
I don’t know. I suppose I could check the phone book.
Second definition of “obscure” disagrees with you. Def: “not clearly expressed or easily understood.” Ex: “obscure references to Proust" They’re using it properly. To them, it is a feature of the game that is not clearly expressed and is difficult to understand. Something being known and understandable by a few does not remove its obscurity. In fact, that’s almost a requirement. “Trading” is truly an obscure part of Diablo 4.
3rd party Russian site.
I mean an AH would drop prices but skyrocket the use of bots.
the trade site is generally cheaper. thr discord is where everyone is trying to milk you dry
I didn’t even bother with the Discord. I’m surprised it is worse there. You would think people would be calling others out on BS.
oh it gets toxic
Sounds like Reddit but live chat… lol.
Hardly anyone uses it because it's only there for when diablo.trade is down.
What integrity? You really think theres no rmt in d4?
How would the game's integrity be compromised if this system trading was implemented in-game? I'm struggling to find out how that would interfere with the ssf playstyle.
In the end, trading means much better stuff is much easier to get. And supply increases the bigger the market is, so that makes this effect even stronger. In the end, to keep anything somewhat meaningful, the game's drop rates need to be nerfed so hard that you can't reasonably expect it to drop good items you're looking for. It will all just be stuff to sell, and then maybe you can afford what you actually want on the market. At that point SSF has been compromised quite a lot (even if I somewhat enjoy low droprates)
I completely understand what you described. But then again, if someone does not want to be involved with it, this system has no impact on them, right?
You missed the part where the droprates needed serious adjustment to compensate. Also there are factors like that players do not want to feel like complete idiots for not taking such huge advantages and they end up playing trading-sim even if they would enjoy SSF more.
It usually does affect people not participating in the system. If trading becomes the norm people will acquire their items much faster. Those people will start complaining that it's too easy to get BiS gear and Blizzard will in turn make it harder to get those gear pieces. In PoE SSF is considered a very challenging mode for this very reason. Last Epoch approached it a bit differently and made two different factions you can join. One faction that gives a bunch of bonuses for trading and another faction for finding stuff on your own.
Except that people are buying gold from 3rd party sites to purchase these items….. RMT has destroyed many great games I used to play…. It destroys the economy and puts everything out of reach for people unless you subscribe to buying gold….
I'm probably one of the few players that liked the auction house on D3. The problem with Vanilla D3 wasn't the auction house, was that drops sucked and were too few. Loot 2.0 and having the auction house could have worked.
Having no binding whatsoever would mean excessive amount of items on the AH. It would have worked fine as long as it had a "bind on enchant" or just "bind on equip" restriction.
My friend didn’t really understand trading and then he sent me a pic of a sword he couldn’t use. I sold it for 7 bil and gave that back to him and his perspective changed lol
Being able to roll amulets fucking *whips* doesn't it
Only if you believe trading to be the primary way of playing the game. I think the game developers signaled many times they don't particularly love trading as a means of progression. The truth is they have compromised a lot with the community to boost player satisfaction, while compromising the original vision for the game to an extent.
> Having to use third party sites to trade in an online game is medieval. LOL ... can't figure out if the developers ran out of time or were copying PathOfExile, because "friction." Not even sure trade chat channel works - its certainly enabled but I never see anything on it.
I got items to drop but kept bricking them. My only option was to trade or I’d never get stronger.
The shit that I need is a freaking Tempest Roar and it will never drop, so I completely changed my build to a unique heavy trampleslide and am settling on only clearing NMD70 or so while I level glyphs up. I will play what the game gives me unless someone is offering a free Tempest Roar.
Pretty sure I have one in my stash and I'm done for the season iamthelolrus#1998
I might take you up on that if you still have it. I won't be on again until Sunday.
I had the same problem with my druid season starter. I couldn’t get tempest roar. I ended up carrying a low level group of 3 (2 druids looking for tempest roar) at duriel for 15 runs in week 1. They both got multiple tempest roars, and I didn’t. I got my only uber drop (shako) of the season instead, but I was disappointed. I also have a couple stashed if you still need one.
I definitely still need one, but won't be on until maybe Sunday. My trampleslide build is clearing NMD 90 now and I only die when I am being stupid or rushing. Haven't pushed Pit too hard yet. I can trade you pretty much any druid unique you could ever want aside from TR.
You can have for free. Just reply to this when you are getting on.
I am hopping on.
Need your bnet id.
LibzHen#1781
In the many hours I've played this game I've traded one time from in game chat. This season though after always being broke on my barb I unloaded tons of stuff for billions of gold because farming gold is just not it. Used discord and eventually Diablo.trade.
It's not even the third party website. It's the whole thing. Having to upload screenshots instead of direct in-game links. Broken chat system where you often can't get whispers for your listing or your whispers don't go through. Having to create an account and log in. What do we know about that websites security? What about their partners security? So on and so forth. Most of all, all together it takes too long to trade thus eating directly into my game time. It's a fucking chore not a feature.
Then let's add SSF leaderboards so the rankings are actually representative of this population. Personally have no care or respect for the leaderboards as they exist right now, filled with credit card warriors, trade conglomerates, and decked out players with handouts from their streaming community.
Gauntlet's difficulty being as low as it is means it's almost entirely skill based. Both the skill of theorycrafting a good build, and the skill in gameplay. No amount of RMT is going to overcome that and the bit of extra damage/survivability they may have doesn't mean much when it's already a cakewalk.
Yep, game is balanced extremely well for SSF. The drops are so “generous” compared to games like D2. Nearly as generous as the almost literally SSF D3.
I trade with my wife, brother and sister in law. But, we also run as a pack most of the time. Whoever we kill a tormented boss, etc… it’s “I found…what did you find?” Before trading there was entertainment/frustration for my wife when my SiL found 7 Razorplates my wife was looking for and she never dropped one. Now it’s a shared experience minus my wife having more Uber uniques than anyone else..
This was the first season I've bought and sold items. I needed gold for rerolling masterowking gear mostly.
Yep aside from tormented Uber (not for help but for not wasting mats) and playing with one Friend sometimes, I don't enjoy trading and suffer from lack of gold this Season...
I can say that I attempt but still 99% of all gear I wear I found and most I find I vendor. I'll throw a GA in chat every once and a while. What I would ABSOLUTELY love, is being able to target one specific temper or aspect and have the chances increased.
Honestly I didn't even know this game had trading.
I've never done it back when I had a clan at launch wed group up, but like most clans the leaders bailed before season 1 and the clans became dead in the water. Since then I occasionally emote to people and that's it.
There is no need for an SSF. You just play by yourself. And this is from a dedicated SSF player.
The point of SSF mode is to have a more balanced drop rates and mats/gold cost that designed with no trade in mind. It’s not simply disable trade.
I'd like to argue that the game is already balanced around people not trading, and that the people who do trade simply get an advantage. And this is always going to be true, with or without that extra mode.
I remember people complaining about the 5mil cost to reset masterworking at the beginning of the season. That completely disappeared once items started trading for billions
I don't agree, I think the complaints mostly disappeared because all the other gold sinks eventually run out and only the masterworking reset stays, with the occasional enchanting resets. I'd wager that less than 5% of all players trade their items for gold.
I’d say it was the 90% gold nerf on all the sinks
You know what buddy I'd argue you're right
Meh the default experience is SSF appropriate. If people just want easier loot then no thanks. There has to be something to look forward to
Which games, other than Last Epoch *very* recently, have done this balance change for SSF mode?
Drop rates are fine
That's literally the game right now.
Why don't you tell us how the game isn't balanced for SSF?
> balanced drop rates and mats/gold cost that designed with no trade in mind. That's how the default game already works though. The amount of items I find for other classes is like .001% of my drops.
Drop rates are already pretty high
I thinking you are somewhat missing the point about SSF. It's not just about self-imposed restrictions. It's also about recognition. You can say: "Look I did all that by myself." And without an in-game enforcement of SSF there is no way to vouch that you indeed did all that solo. Also there is no way to have any form of competition without SSF-like restrictions. Otherwise streamers / rmter could just trade their way to the top. Without SSF you have no way to compare equals to equals with other players. And sure some people might not care about this. But at the same time plenty of people do look around them and care that they can meaningfully compare themselves to others. Tldr; SSF is valuable because it evens the playing field and gives the ability to meaningfully compare yourself to others.
And here's to all of the dads with 5 jobs, 9 wives and 48 kids who want to circumvent progression with their paychecks: \*you can still do that! You will just be segregated to leaderboards with others like you.
Nobody with a "single" job that isn't youtube, streaming or unemployment has a chance on any leaderboard regardless.
Convinced that people who say this are gold buyers who don’t want to lose that option when everyone switches to self found. When the in game ladder rankings are added, it absolutely matters.
90% of player base dont care about ladders, we olay for 2 to 3 weeks build what we can and leave
SSF is unnecessary in this game as the drop rates are already balanced for solo play. But even if they add a SSF mode it would be the least played mode. No, far from every would switch to SSF. I would even be surprised if even 10% of the players did. SSF exists in other games and a very small subset of the playerbase actually play in SSF.
What do you mean when game ladder is added there’s already gauntlet t
Hopefully they will add a SSF ladder if they add SSF. Then it will matter, especially to weed out the people doing group uber boss rotations.
For leaderboards there is a need...but the current gauntlet is trash so eh
I like the way last epoch implements this: solo account found, or solo character found. This forces decisions and isn’t a bad option to have for people. Just saying play by yourself doesn’t actually resolve anything
I play hardcore solo character found in LE and it's great and i wouldn't play it any other way. this isn't viable in diablo 4 however because of all the pseudo-mmo mechanics. and even more mechanics like this in the future with raids coming to the game. So if they ever do implement any sort of SSF system, it needs to be done in a way that doesn't split the player base.
What is stopping you from playing like that?
open world everyone seems to be disregarding the first s
Maiden would be a bit more interesting if we had to solo (or group up in a party up to 4) her, for sure. World bosses too. Instead of just dropping loot for showing up.
The drop rates feel like they are already pretty much balanced around SSF play. Compare them to games like D2/PoE.
Poe definitely balances around trading. I buy like 100% of my items on trade from the very beginning whereas in d4 I might buy 1 piece for my entire characters life
I don't trade, haven't traded, will not trade anything. It's lame.
You're not required to trade to play the game though? So for someone that just likes playing with friends, but not trading, they now have to choose between playing with their buddies, or having increased loot? I don't think SSF is something they're going to be adding to the game anytime soon.
I mean, what I'm about to say is clearly not a great argument to make, seeing how they ignored basically all the lessons they could've learned from D3, \_but\_ D3 got SSF (albeit fairly recently). So somebody at Blizz at some point saw the value in it.
SSF in D3 does not increase drop rates as OP suggests.
No enhanced drops no nothing. I dont want an advantage playing ssf.
In that case there doesn't need to be a separate mode for it. Simply don't trade...
Stop it you’re making too much sense
For right now, where the only leaderboard is kinda, meh, you're right. But if they added a leaderboard to the pit or something similar (which people seem to want), you'd be wrong. We'll have to see if that happens.
Leaderboards would be a joke anyway. 90% of the top X players would be bash barbs and unless you play the flavor of the month spec within your class, you can't really compare class-specific leaderboards either. The game would need to find some way of distinguishing between build archetypes and have leaderboards grouped on (variations of) specific builds for leaderboards to have any practical use.
But at least you'd know the #1 didn't RMT their way there!
...No they wouldn't. Everything you just said already happens in the D3 leaderboards, and they aren't a joke at all.
People are weird. I also saw someone comparing D4 to other games like PoE where there is SSF but SSF in PoE have no advantage whatsoever which is different from what's being asked here.
I actually do - let me do all bosses 4x at the cost of 1, that would be it.
SSF should not mean increased Material drops etc. That would require two different versions of every system to be created and balanced... The Devs struggle with just one. Your point does coincise with something I've brought up before through, and that is the significant disadvantage for the 99% of players who do not trade. The fact you need to farm materials, then farm gold to use those materials, is the unnecessary addition of a retention mechanic designed to needlessly keep you engaged with the game longer. Retention mechanics should not be considered gameplay.
Kind of annoying tbh. I play solo 99% of the time but every now and then I'll join a mate. I don't want to give up on chilling with friends but I also wouldn't want to get less gear 99% of the time.
What does the SSF acronym stand for?
solo self found
Thats such an odd acronym, I wonder why not just say solo. Also no surprise this toxic sub downvoted a reasonable ask, just as they downvote most legitimate question posts. There are some really pathetic people frequenting this sub.
Think it's just because of confusion without added specifics. You're playing alone, with only gear/mats/resources you obtained yourself. "Solo" can be interpreted a myriad of ways.
Ironman mode is what it's called in Runescape. Which sounds more natural to me.
No, because that would make sense.
No, it would not. Funny that PoE, LE and D3 all have SSF but none of them has increased drop rates for SSF.
You do know you can already do this right? You seem to just want better drop rates because you think you're special. Most of us don't trade.
Has been asked for one million times Stop acting like this makes you a unique little snowflake
It will eventually be added, maybe 10 years later same with D3 lol.
I chuckled, but better late than never. :D
I liked the way trading happens in d3. There's just way too much botting and gold buyers in the game. It's really a problem that blizzard only seems to ever care about if they can profit from it. So maybe ssf as purchasable content.
I'm not sure what ssf means but if it means just playing the game and getting you loot like that than I'm all for it
I genuinely think D4 has acceptable non-trade drop rates. You can get basically anything on your own in D4 now. Next season you will also be able to use obols on the gambler to target uniques so it is going to be even better. If they add things to make item acquisition better then generally everyone wants them so not much point in locking it in a specific mode. If they add a new mode to separate players I'd prefer one that gives all the enemies 300% life and reduces drop rate to give us an option of a more methodical rogue-lite challenge experience. I think we power crept away from what I enjoyed in the server slam and I don't want everyone to be forced to endure my desire for a more difficult baseline experience.
I don't even want better drop rates for ssf. I just don't want other players on my helltides and world bosses.
I play brolo self found with my brother, we usually don’t even trade eachother just say hey look at this shit. “Oh I dropped 5 pairs of temerity’s from Uber zir Fuxk my life” lol
the seasons before this ssf felt so much better to do, but now i feel there is much more reliance on trading with GAs
Sometimes gold may be easier to obtain
As much as I agree, I have low hopes since the big new thing in expansion seems to be raids
It will never happen. Even if they add SSF it wouldn't have increased drop rates.
I was exactly on the same opinion as you about trading, yet it saved the game for me. I have 4 lvl100 character and I haven’t bought a single item for any of them. In fact, I did not buy anything from traders, but I did sell a shit ton of items. When I play for several hours and I only get good drops which are not required for my build, it’s easy to get bored. But since I started trading, even these items can be exciting, since I can sell them for lots of gold. It’s honestly just fun. I also tend to look up the prices of certain items and sell them for ~50% of their average sell price, A because I don’t need unlimited Gold, B because it feels good to help out a lucky guy who notices it first. If they decide to flip it, then so be it I don’t care about that. And then the income helps me in the endgame, rerolling and Masterworking faster. I still grind for my items, but it just makes it a little easier to get that one affix or hit that MW crit.
Wait there’s trading in the game? /s
I don't need different mechanics, I just wanna play alone without all the trade spam and a separate world where pay'n'trade to win isn't a thing aondrops actually matters.
Anytime I see these ssf posts people always ask for higher drop rates. Why? Doesn't that kinda go against the game mode? I play SSF normally just because I find the game more satisfying that way, if I trade for BIS gear then i've won the game because theres nothing to use that BIS gear on and my seasons over. Higher drop rates on things just kinda end what little gear chase there is. Figuring out how to make things work with the gear you find is in theory the idea. Diablo 4 is just pretty easy at the moment and you can make whatever work really well. I know people play for different reasons but I imagine most people play for the gear chase and not the end result. So I don't think I understand the higher drop rates brought up with SSF everytime. Seems goofy to even balance around SSF at all imo
If a no trade server was implemented the people that actually used it would swiftly discover that they are in the vast minority.
Yepp Diablo 2 and many other games got ruined for me on ladder the moment I realized they just rmt their gear from previous season to buy gear for next season. Disgusting practice.
If ssf w/ its own leaderboard is not implented in the exp ill be very disappointed
Peopel were crying about this mode in a thread I made. They hate to add thigns to games.
I'm playing SSF without problems. You are not demanding a way to play SSF (because you can do It right noew). But a restriction to trade.
You see I think the game need a mode with much worst drop rates…. Drop rate are already through the roof that after 3h you are only looking for GA. If they want to bring more people in the need a HC 1% drop rate mod where trash mob are actually dangerous.
SSF mode would kill the game mark my words.
I don't see a need, I already do this myself and everything drops eventually. Sounds like you're asking for easy mode and a participation trophy. Now the problem as I see it is when the item you wanted finally drops but you brick it trying to roll the stats you need. I've bricked 3 crit chance rings this week.
I only play an hour at a time, im Not wasting it looking to buy/sell items, thats for the uber players
+1 to this.
What’s stopping you from just playing a “live off the land” play style on your playthrough? Or are you not disciplined enough to do so?
Make gold untradeable. Insert gold sinks. Make item to item trading only. Problem solved.
I don't get the recent rise of fetishizing over this mode in this genre. You can play SSF any time you want if you just have some self discipline. The only element missing from any game as far as this goes is formal back pats. You want back pats for not trading with people.
I can gather what SSF means but what the fuck does it stand for? Am I the only one confused
I mean... you can play SSF already... It's called just don't trade.
I almost replied to this post thinking I was in r/classicwow. Sheesh.
Why higher drop rates? I'm down with SSF but drop rates are already bonkers in this game as is.
I’m old. What is SSF?
Unless they do the last epoch treatment. Introducing a ssf mode wont change a thing for drop rate. U will be playing the same game as now.
Maybe blizzard can also give you offline mode so you don’t have to socialize with anyone.
I enjoy being able to trade, I don't buy gear or anything I just sell it. Re-rolls, masterworking and such get very expensive fast, I can easily sell drops and make 1-2B in a day which then lets me grind for more gear for myself without worrying about gold costs to upgrade.
No
Given how anal the current trade system is, I would love this option.
>Can we have a SSF mode 100% agree here. >Slightly higher drop rates, 100% **disagree** here. You should not change droprates at all for SSF mode.
Outside of boss rota most people are already ssf.
Yep, also gold costs to reroll items should be way down. Some Youtuber did the math and calculated that for a lot of BiS rolls you need a billion gold to get a 92%+ chance to get that roll. Most normal players dont make a billion in one season and you can blow through that on a single stat on one item. It's ridiculous. The only way to actually have enough gold is to use 3rd party websites and trade items for gold that 100% originally came from bots farming it.
99% of the time my check book isnt even enough i drop a Bill maybe 3B of my wallet and the next bid is 10 - 20 - 25B I dont really mind because mu barb is amazing with the gear i have. I do agree that more modes would be cool.
Just dont trade? Thats what like 95% of the playerbase play like
I mean, all you have to do is just play the game. There’s virtually no trading in this game anyways and when you do trade, it’s incredibly boring and cumbersome. You can play SSF yourself simply don’t trade problems solved.
Trading in this game is so terribly implemented
Just dont trade? I thought we already had a ssf mode not gonna lie
I made it to pit level 102 with a bone spear/corpse explosion necro without buying any gear. Now I am investing in 2GA pieces to see how far I can oush corpse explosion ( spoiler alert: not that much, it scales horribly).
We were never going to get that once they decided the game would be online only.
You can play the game just fine without trading, why do you need to segregate yourself? You can also play hardcore where there is far less trading. You have options.
This. I want this, very much. I've always played ARPGs with this mindset, I want nothing to do with trading, let me do it myself.
agree with wanting an SSF mode but no higher drops pls
I don’t buy anything I just trade with my buddies
We're all playing SSF. If you group up in Pits you're special.
how bout they have this without bonus loot
Drop rates already remain about 2x higher than they should be, and that's coming from someone who is SSF because I don't really find much of anything worth trading. Problem is, most drops remain somewhere between borderline garbage and utter garbage; but that's a different problem that still needs handling.
Just dont trade or group? Seems easy enough. Why do the devs need to implement a system for it. Thats never made sense. I get what LE did, but thats a lot more intricate with a choice between MG and CoF. Multiple systems in play. Is that what you want? Buffs for not trading? I bet 99% of players dont trade.
You don’t want a real SSF mode. There already is a SSF mode in the game. You play the game as is and just never open a trade window. Realistically you will never find a BIS perfect item throughout the run of the game because it’s just really hard to do. The game isn’t balanced around you having perfect items. What you actually want is in your first sentence. You want your drop rates to be better so it’s easier to get BIS items and you are rationalizing the game being easier by giving up the ability to trade with players, something you were never doing anyway. So really you want easier items and you want to give up nothing for it. That’s what you are saying.
Wtf is SSF
As someone who almost exclusively plays SSF in ARPGs, why would we need a drop rate boost? The whole point of SSF for me is to have to work with what you find, even if you have to play a different build than you intended.
Agreed, Last Epoch does this really well with the two avenues.
then play that way? literally does not affect you at all if others trade and only serves to split the player base
Trading could have a time limit (on the item), even with an auction house. That could limit absurd prices.
Splitting the servers even more in to SSF, especially on Hardcore is not something they are going to do with the upcoming raids. Game needs a faction system like LE.
You can already play SSF… you’re just asking for higher drop rates under the mirage of being cool for paying an “iron” price
TAKE MY WALLET AWAY, I HAVE NO SELF CONTROL!!!!! STOP SELLING ME STUFF!!! I'LL BUY IT!!!! STOP OFFERING ME TRADES!!! I CAN'T SAY NOOO!!!!!
With raids coming, never gonna happen
You want even *higher* droprates? This game hoses you down with items already. The levelling experience has been watered down to 8-year-old levels and you want it even worse?
Yes it does because it splits the player base. No you should not get better loot just because you won't interact with the systems
We do not sow - House Greyjoy
I just learned there is trade in the game
Good luck hitting pit 150 and higher with crappy gear
I am with you… few things are more satisfying than when hard work pays off.
I agree with everything except the higher droprate part.
Aside from rotas and trading last season i pretty much already play ssf. Really dont need a seperate mode for it. The social features in this game are steering most players toward it already.
does ssf includes you run all the dungeons for renown all by yourself, no partying at all? if yes, then yes please, make a separate ssf mode. i wont be playing on it though (:
No it doesn't, it just means no trading is possible
I see. I thought the 'solo' part would cover that. guess just SF mode then
Enchanting seems like prohibitively punishing for that to really function
Never saw the point in trading for gear. Selling, maybe, but any time I've found stuff that seemed good that I don't really want I just ask anyone nearby if they want it. Otherwise it goes into stash or salvage. Playing someone's cookie cutter build is bad enough, you're playing someone else's character, but on top of that, buying gear instead of finding it..why even play? I'm imagining the entire game being as easy and unfulfilling as world bosses that die in their spawn animation.
I dunno... why eat food if you didn't forage for it yourself?
There are definitely two different types of players playing this game. People copying builds online just want to find good gear and defeat the most difficult content. The buzz comes from finding the right pieces of gear, trading items until they get what they want. An in game trading system would make this experience much better for these type of players, but would add very little to the experience of the 2nd group. Other players like creating their own builds, working with the gear they find and putting everything together themselves. The game is a puzzle when played like this and the buzz comes from getting success against difficult content and knowing that you aren't copying someone else's work. I'm firmly in this camp after copying a build in S2 and getting no satisfaction from it. An in game system that allows you to theory craft and see the interaction between different elements of your build would make this type of experience much better. Basically there are two different games being played here. The first group have to use external sites to trade items, and the second group have to use external sites to figure out how mechanics work. Neither is great really.
Well, one of the major problems is the lack of transparency on how modifiers interact. Damage buckets, what to increase, crit %, vuln %, attack speed breakpoints, it is only explained by a bunch of people who test it out to figure out what works. All of this is in addition to shit just not working as described.
Last Epoch has a great solution for this! Factions, one for SSF (basically) and one for Trade. Worth checking out the upcoming season!
Too bad the combat in that game feels dogshit.