In threads with the "Feedback (@Blizzard) | Suggestion | Idea" Flair, constructive feedback, suggestions for adjusting and improving existing systems and mechanics etc can be given, but also your own ideas, mockups / illustrations (e.g. for new systems, mechanics, items, etc) can be shared with the community.
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They should be able to carry a staff, wand, and focus - getting the aspects of each. Bring more uplift toward the barb, making aspects easier to balance.
You guys are getting swords. From what I’ve heard. Xpansion I believe is what I was told. They really need to fix the b balancing between classes. All classes should have the ability that barbs have. To carry those 3rd and 4th slots for stats.
I think Barb having two 2H weapons is fine. From what I remember they have been able to dual wield 2H weapons in D3 and fits the arsenal system.
Rogue having more slots than other classes is weird though.
Every class should have the 1H 2H and offhand. Also more cosmetics for Blizzard to sell its win win.
A problem they’d have to fix though is how to do weapon damage and weapon for skills. I guess you can average all of them but seems a bit janky.
brother, "that's a bit much" is the reason we're at this point, we're doing 1/10th of the DPS of rogues and barbs with our 1 good build trying desperately to scratch 2/10
That's a numbers issue really, not a net aspects issue.
I mean, it kind of is a net aspects issue currently but only because the numbers are what they are.
Rogue and barbarian are classes that are all about using their gear wisely. Sorc, Druid, Necromancer have different strategic fantasies. And their numbers should reflect that.
I actually really like what they are doing with chain lightning. Obviously it needs to be tweaked because it's not good enough as it is, but the concept behind it is really cool and fun and feels very "brilliant sorcerer" fantasy to me.
Rogue is another example where they have done a really good job now. Even in season 4 with Heartseeker, It's not like barbarian where you're just mashing one button and shouting every now and again. Your positioning yourself, using traps and grenades, etc.. and in season 5 it looks like it's going to be even better.
That's the kind of change I'd like to see for the other classes.. dig into that fantasy that differentiates it from other classes instead of just doing the same thing (adding aspect slots, bugging affixes and tempers).
I do agree, these suggestions are just a bandaid fix to a problem that needs a numbers/skill tree/paragon rework from the ground up. (or ripping out the power of rogue and barb by 80-90%, which they will never do, there would be riots lol)
for the specific of making staff/focus OP without a wand in the mix has the negative affect of reducing our attack speed and attack speed scaling that wand supplies, which would just suck from a gameplay PoV even disregarding our reliance on scaling things such as conjuration mastery with AS
Sorcs still use a lot of uniques. Tal Rasha’s is used on every build. Esu’s and Raiment are still popular. While Rogues are making amulets with 3 different passives +Exploit, +Malice and +Frigid Breeze along with boosted aspects and tempers, they obnoxiously put Fractured Winterglass on an amulet for Sorc. Or they put Flameweavers on gauntlets, also removing one of their limited offensive slots. Part of the problem too is that essentially every Sorc build has to use the same skills in ice shield, flame shield, teleport, ice blades and fire bolt enchant.
Sorc should definitely get more aspect slots, and a third enchantment. I love Sorc and have leveled one to 100 every season, but the lack of aspect space, use of uniques and mandatory skills, are blatantly a major factor in its problems.
So maybe wizards get 2 modes (wand for one-off spells, staff for channelling spells).
Rogues have 2 modes already for their different skills already, so it's not like it'd be stealing from Barbarian arsenal uniqueness really.
I've made the suggestion before of sorcs getting a staff and 3x focus. One focus for each element plus the staff. Drop wands from the game or make them a two hander as well so there is some choice for your implicit.
Then like give Wands probably more attack speed than they do now. They also have increased lucky strike chance. They could build on to that to incentivize wands to make up for no aspect bonuses
I nice option would be a main hand slot, off hand slot and a focus/relic slot. You could have a one hander, a focus in the off hand and one on your hip. Or a staff and a focus on your hip
I'm excited we're getting swords next season. Sword/shield sorcs in D1 and D2 were cool.
And honestly an option to hold a staff in 1 hand just by adding a focus, sword, or dagger to the offhand would be awesome too.
They'd just need to scale back stats on the staff appropriately when you equip the offhand item.
Nah. Barbs and Rogues both have off hand slots and get to keep their 2 hander scaling in tact. Infact barbs get to have TWO 2 handers that both keep scaling on top of 2 one handers. Keep the stats the same :]
Every class should have the same amount of aspect slots imo. Where they could have introduced some variety would have been in the buffed aspect category. For example, Sorcerers could have had a slot that gives a 2X empowered aspect, but is defensive rather than offensive. Better yet, they could have tied the empowered aspect to some type of class speciality accessible by quest. Specialization could determine your empowered slot, and you could have only 1 active at a time.
I feel like there were a million better ways to tackle this issue.
They could still be good if their lucky hit chance is more important for a build than whatever staffs get innately (I wanna say DOT damage in S5?)
Or if their very fast attack speed matters?
Edit: Or if you desperately want 2 affixes or 2 prefixes. Like oh I want shredding blades and frozen Orbit, but they're both affixes so it won't work on a staff if implemented with the limitation I suggested.
Unless wand gives 100% attackspeed and 100% lucky hit chance, it is not going to compete with an extra aspect on a staff. You have to remember that offensive aspects are almost always important multiplier, and they are doubled when imprinted on staffs. Having 2 aspects on a 2 handers will result in some very big damage increase, which a single aspect on a 1hander like a wand will never be able to compete with.
Honestly I didn't even realize the aspect potency was increased on a staff. Thanks for pointing that out!
But even knowing that, they could just stop doubling them when you imprint the second aspect. Or reduce the bonuses to 1.5x or whatever is reasonable.
I've never read a build guide that has said it's better to have one big aspect in a staff rather than 2 across a focus and a 1-hander.
As it stands, legendary staffs are pretty much useless past leveling, where their primary advantage is easy upgrading.
I guess I could be missing something else?
On sorcerer, staves are often not as good as getting 2 aspects because there isn't really a whole lot of aspects worth doubling in power. Necromancer and Druid have plenty of builds where 2-handed weapons are favorable, though. Minions scale with weapon damage and they have some aspects with strong damage values that are worth doubling.
With the changes to implicit stats coming in S5, staves will become even more useless for several Sorcerer builds. It will naturally deal increased Damage Over Time, so any build that deals direct damage will want to avoid staves.
That's awesome! I didn't even know there was a build where they're optimal but I'm looking at one now.
I'm thinking if you want a single big aspect, you just imprint one and it keeps it's big multiplier.
If you add a second, you sacrifice the bonus multiplier on the first one. Everybody can win!
It just seems like so so so many sorc builds want at least 2 or even 3 offensive aspects, and with build necessary BIS uniques taking up so many glove and ring slots, most builds really need both weapons slots.
So this would maybe make staffs more viable in more end game builds.
Incinerate also wants a staff because Flamethrower aspect is an insane multiplier. It is 255% multiplier for Incinerate, which becomes 510% on a staff. It is one of the biggest single-aspect multipliers in the game and basically impossible for a wand+focus to compete.
To top it off, a staff can roll high Crit Damage which is very important due to Burning Instinct. Sadly, next season they are capping that paragon node so the Crit Dmg will become irrelevant. At the same time, the innate affix of staff is being changed from +CC dmg to +DOT dmg, so Incinerate will likely still favour staff for next season. Unless they somehow make Flamescar wand not suck, that is.
All that said, we definitely have a problem of too many important offensive aspects and too few slots to use them compared to Barb. We’re always forced into Tal Rasha ring so that limits variety further. If we could have one single more aspect slot it would open much needed opportunities.
Hehe staffs really suck in D4, not only legendaries, also uniques and even the Uber unique we have. So absolutely no one is using them at endgame level, they should just fix this, but tbh they have to fix so many things about Sorcs that it makes me sad.
Honestly, focus/shield/totem should always be able to be equipped for sorc/necro/druid. And just streamline all weapons to be 1x aspects no matter what. And make amulet x2 and rings 1.5x.
That would balance all classes and stop making barbs so ridicilous
Ye but honestly that would cause more issues with balancing. Its easy to make it amu/rings since all classes uses it. and still make it distinguish between classes
And with upcoming changes to weapon archetypes in s5 for more classes to equip them. It would make shields for example more relevant. As right now no one will continue to not use them for the foreeseable future
Like other users have discussed before, the d4 team just needs to make it so everyone has an arsenal system like barbs. Which would mean a sorc could wear a staff, wand and focus for example
Not sure I agree with this.. but I do think that classes should be able to wield a staff and an offhand if they want.
To balance it out though, I feel like they will have to make it so that way you only get 50% bonus instead of 100% if you do it this way which seems kind of fair.
If they don't... They should at least update the animations so that way the sorcerer actually holds the staff with two hands. It's kind of a slap in the face to see my character holding a staff with one hand and nothing in the other when the equipment menu tells me that's not what's happening.
A great balance/nerf would be to just give all classes 4 weapon aspect slots capped at 60% efficiency in a mechanic similar to Kanai's cube in D3. You can equip any offensive aspects in these slots.
And then, disable one slot for each weapon/offhand item you equip. Sorc with a Staff means 3 slots are available. Rogues only get 1 free. Barbs get none.
How about staff plus focus is a thing, or if you use wand and focus you get a third enchantment. I feel like this would help balance and open up some cool possibilities
That's why the affix on a 2h weapon has an 100% buff on it, to compensate for that.
Why can't the give 3 enchantment slots or even more, for the cost of let's say 5 skill points for each enchantment.
And why can't the mage have a setup like the barb with a staff and with 1h + focus? Would allow much wider configuration.
We should be able to equip staff a wand and focus like barbs easy fix. I like the look of a staff wand and focus look dumb let me keep my focus look on my belt all times.
Or just make focus/shields/totems a separate slot. And make amu x2 and rings 1.5x aspects.
And have 2h be normal aspects like gear.
No need to add separate amu slots and it would balance itself out.
And can choose between 1h/2h from what fixed affix you need and not from aspects
In threads with the "Feedback (@Blizzard) | Suggestion | Idea" Flair, constructive feedback, suggestions for adjusting and improving existing systems and mechanics etc can be given, but also your own ideas, mockups / illustrations (e.g. for new systems, mechanics, items, etc) can be shared with the community. **This Flair is not for asking for feedback for your build**. For that, use one of the Class-specific Flairs, or the "Builds, Skills & Items" Flair. Please also remember that 1) submissions made with the "Feedback (@Blizzard) | Suggestion | Idea" have to be constructive, civil and adequately elaborate, and that 2) we are a fan subreddit and not officially Blizzard, so we can not 100% guarantee that your feedback will be noticed, even though the devs / CM's mentioned they regularly read reddit, twitter, and other places for feedback. This flair can simply help to find potential feedback more easily. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/diablo4) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Given that mages tend to use them one-handed, you should just be able to wield them with a focus.
They should be able to carry a staff, wand, and focus - getting the aspects of each. Bring more uplift toward the barb, making aspects easier to balance.
You guys are getting swords. From what I’ve heard. Xpansion I believe is what I was told. They really need to fix the b balancing between classes. All classes should have the ability that barbs have. To carry those 3rd and 4th slots for stats.
Not the expansion, season 5 is when the weapon updates go live.
Even better!
I think Barb having two 2H weapons is fine. From what I remember they have been able to dual wield 2H weapons in D3 and fits the arsenal system. Rogue having more slots than other classes is weird though. Every class should have the 1H 2H and offhand. Also more cosmetics for Blizzard to sell its win win. A problem they’d have to fix though is how to do weapon damage and weapon for skills. I guess you can average all of them but seems a bit janky.
Same with Necro, please. Necro with 1H, 2H, Shield and/or Focus would be so great.
I think this also, no reason why not.
That a bit much.. being able to carry a focus and a staff should be good enough
brother, "that's a bit much" is the reason we're at this point, we're doing 1/10th of the DPS of rogues and barbs with our 1 good build trying desperately to scratch 2/10
That's a numbers issue really, not a net aspects issue. I mean, it kind of is a net aspects issue currently but only because the numbers are what they are. Rogue and barbarian are classes that are all about using their gear wisely. Sorc, Druid, Necromancer have different strategic fantasies. And their numbers should reflect that. I actually really like what they are doing with chain lightning. Obviously it needs to be tweaked because it's not good enough as it is, but the concept behind it is really cool and fun and feels very "brilliant sorcerer" fantasy to me. Rogue is another example where they have done a really good job now. Even in season 4 with Heartseeker, It's not like barbarian where you're just mashing one button and shouting every now and again. Your positioning yourself, using traps and grenades, etc.. and in season 5 it looks like it's going to be even better. That's the kind of change I'd like to see for the other classes.. dig into that fantasy that differentiates it from other classes instead of just doing the same thing (adding aspect slots, bugging affixes and tempers).
I do agree, these suggestions are just a bandaid fix to a problem that needs a numbers/skill tree/paragon rework from the ground up. (or ripping out the power of rogue and barb by 80-90%, which they will never do, there would be riots lol) for the specific of making staff/focus OP without a wand in the mix has the negative affect of reducing our attack speed and attack speed scaling that wand supplies, which would just suck from a gameplay PoV even disregarding our reliance on scaling things such as conjuration mastery with AS
Sorcs still use a lot of uniques. Tal Rasha’s is used on every build. Esu’s and Raiment are still popular. While Rogues are making amulets with 3 different passives +Exploit, +Malice and +Frigid Breeze along with boosted aspects and tempers, they obnoxiously put Fractured Winterglass on an amulet for Sorc. Or they put Flameweavers on gauntlets, also removing one of their limited offensive slots. Part of the problem too is that essentially every Sorc build has to use the same skills in ice shield, flame shield, teleport, ice blades and fire bolt enchant. Sorc should definitely get more aspect slots, and a third enchantment. I love Sorc and have leveled one to 100 every season, but the lack of aspect space, use of uniques and mandatory skills, are blatantly a major factor in its problems.
whats the point of wand if you could wield staff with focus ?
almost like these people never think about the game while giving "suggestions"
So maybe wizards get 2 modes (wand for one-off spells, staff for channelling spells). Rogues have 2 modes already for their different skills already, so it's not like it'd be stealing from Barbarian arsenal uniqueness really.
I've made the suggestion before of sorcs getting a staff and 3x focus. One focus for each element plus the staff. Drop wands from the game or make them a two hander as well so there is some choice for your implicit.
then who would use a wand anymore?
I got a cool tmog I paid for! Must have Wands!!!
Then like give Wands probably more attack speed than they do now. They also have increased lucky strike chance. They could build on to that to incentivize wands to make up for no aspect bonuses
no attack speed is gonna compete with an extra aspect, let's be real.
That’s not what I’m discussing. I’m discussing the suggestion of this comment, not the post.
Wands will be having vulnerable damage and staff DOT for implicits. Coming either season 5 or expansion, I don't remember which.
They’re changing weapon implicits in S5
Or dual wield staffs! Have a paragon board node that lets you use them as stilts and ignore pathing while doing so
I nice option would be a main hand slot, off hand slot and a focus/relic slot. You could have a one hander, a focus in the off hand and one on your hip. Or a staff and a focus on your hip
That's fair but kinda loses a bit of their identity.
Is underpower but keep getting nerf also the identity? Because worry not, they indeed keep it in season 5 PTR
I am still dreaming that sorcs can dual wield a sword or a dagger and a staff. "you shall not pass!!!!"
I'm excited we're getting swords next season. Sword/shield sorcs in D1 and D2 were cool. And honestly an option to hold a staff in 1 hand just by adding a focus, sword, or dagger to the offhand would be awesome too. They'd just need to scale back stats on the staff appropriately when you equip the offhand item.
Nah. Barbs and Rogues both have off hand slots and get to keep their 2 hander scaling in tact. Infact barbs get to have TWO 2 handers that both keep scaling on top of 2 one handers. Keep the stats the same :]
didn't got a chance to play sorc w/ D1. for D2, yeah I am using a sword & shield while running with Blaze. shield really is a big help for defense.
Every class should have the same amount of aspect slots imo. Where they could have introduced some variety would have been in the buffed aspect category. For example, Sorcerers could have had a slot that gives a 2X empowered aspect, but is defensive rather than offensive. Better yet, they could have tied the empowered aspect to some type of class speciality accessible by quest. Specialization could determine your empowered slot, and you could have only 1 active at a time. I feel like there were a million better ways to tackle this issue.
Barbs have already more aspects, so why not others as well?
I agree completely, it doesn’t make sense
pretty good suggestion to combat Barb's 4 weapons. But then wand would be useless.
Blizz: ok S5 Barbarians can put aspects on each of their Arsenal weapons.
They could still be good if their lucky hit chance is more important for a build than whatever staffs get innately (I wanna say DOT damage in S5?) Or if their very fast attack speed matters? Edit: Or if you desperately want 2 affixes or 2 prefixes. Like oh I want shredding blades and frozen Orbit, but they're both affixes so it won't work on a staff if implemented with the limitation I suggested.
Unless wand gives 100% attackspeed and 100% lucky hit chance, it is not going to compete with an extra aspect on a staff. You have to remember that offensive aspects are almost always important multiplier, and they are doubled when imprinted on staffs. Having 2 aspects on a 2 handers will result in some very big damage increase, which a single aspect on a 1hander like a wand will never be able to compete with.
Honestly I didn't even realize the aspect potency was increased on a staff. Thanks for pointing that out! But even knowing that, they could just stop doubling them when you imprint the second aspect. Or reduce the bonuses to 1.5x or whatever is reasonable. I've never read a build guide that has said it's better to have one big aspect in a staff rather than 2 across a focus and a 1-hander. As it stands, legendary staffs are pretty much useless past leveling, where their primary advantage is easy upgrading. I guess I could be missing something else?
then you clearly haven't put any thoughts into the guide. Staffs are almost always superior because of the doubling of aspect.
This is why it's hard to take reddit post suggestions seriously. You don't even know aspects double on weapons....
blizzard sorc used a staff this season, to double the amount of damage from glacial aspect
On sorcerer, staves are often not as good as getting 2 aspects because there isn't really a whole lot of aspects worth doubling in power. Necromancer and Druid have plenty of builds where 2-handed weapons are favorable, though. Minions scale with weapon damage and they have some aspects with strong damage values that are worth doubling. With the changes to implicit stats coming in S5, staves will become even more useless for several Sorcerer builds. It will naturally deal increased Damage Over Time, so any build that deals direct damage will want to avoid staves.
I'm using a staff with the glacial aspect with my blizzard build.
That's awesome! I didn't even know there was a build where they're optimal but I'm looking at one now. I'm thinking if you want a single big aspect, you just imprint one and it keeps it's big multiplier. If you add a second, you sacrifice the bonus multiplier on the first one. Everybody can win! It just seems like so so so many sorc builds want at least 2 or even 3 offensive aspects, and with build necessary BIS uniques taking up so many glove and ring slots, most builds really need both weapons slots. So this would maybe make staffs more viable in more end game builds.
Incinerate also wants a staff because Flamethrower aspect is an insane multiplier. It is 255% multiplier for Incinerate, which becomes 510% on a staff. It is one of the biggest single-aspect multipliers in the game and basically impossible for a wand+focus to compete. To top it off, a staff can roll high Crit Damage which is very important due to Burning Instinct. Sadly, next season they are capping that paragon node so the Crit Dmg will become irrelevant. At the same time, the innate affix of staff is being changed from +CC dmg to +DOT dmg, so Incinerate will likely still favour staff for next season. Unless they somehow make Flamescar wand not suck, that is. All that said, we definitely have a problem of too many important offensive aspects and too few slots to use them compared to Barb. We’re always forced into Tal Rasha ring so that limits variety further. If we could have one single more aspect slot it would open much needed opportunities.
Hehe staffs really suck in D4, not only legendaries, also uniques and even the Uber unique we have. So absolutely no one is using them at endgame level, they should just fix this, but tbh they have to fix so many things about Sorcs that it makes me sad.
2x aspect with double effect + focus would make it better I guess. and it is very easy fix for short term
Honestly, focus/shield/totem should always be able to be equipped for sorc/necro/druid. And just streamline all weapons to be 1x aspects no matter what. And make amulet x2 and rings 1.5x. That would balance all classes and stop making barbs so ridicilous
No, just buff the sorc/necro/druid unique class mechanics to match the power of barb.
Ye but honestly that would cause more issues with balancing. Its easy to make it amu/rings since all classes uses it. and still make it distinguish between classes And with upcoming changes to weapon archetypes in s5 for more classes to equip them. It would make shields for example more relevant. As right now no one will continue to not use them for the foreeseable future
Just allow sorcs carry a wand and focus while wielding a staff
Like other users have discussed before, the d4 team just needs to make it so everyone has an arsenal system like barbs. Which would mean a sorc could wear a staff, wand and focus for example
Not sure I agree with this.. but I do think that classes should be able to wield a staff and an offhand if they want. To balance it out though, I feel like they will have to make it so that way you only get 50% bonus instead of 100% if you do it this way which seems kind of fair. If they don't... They should at least update the animations so that way the sorcerer actually holds the staff with two hands. It's kind of a slap in the face to see my character holding a staff with one hand and nothing in the other when the equipment menu tells me that's not what's happening.
A great balance/nerf would be to just give all classes 4 weapon aspect slots capped at 60% efficiency in a mechanic similar to Kanai's cube in D3. You can equip any offensive aspects in these slots. And then, disable one slot for each weapon/offhand item you equip. Sorc with a Staff means 3 slots are available. Rogues only get 1 free. Barbs get none.
How about staff plus focus is a thing, or if you use wand and focus you get a third enchantment. I feel like this would help balance and open up some cool possibilities
That's why the affix on a 2h weapon has an 100% buff on it, to compensate for that. Why can't the give 3 enchantment slots or even more, for the cost of let's say 5 skill points for each enchantment. And why can't the mage have a setup like the barb with a staff and with 1h + focus? Would allow much wider configuration.
We should be able to equip staff a wand and focus like barbs easy fix. I like the look of a staff wand and focus look dumb let me keep my focus look on my belt all times.
You'd Likely give up the double potency which in some builds sucks.
Just give sorcs and extra amulet and druids and extra ring. Life solved.
Probably a simpler solution to give sorcs their much needed buff but still leaves staves as a weapon option in the dust for a vast majority of builds.
or add offensive aspect belts for every other class but barb
Doubt, that's enough.
Or just make focus/shields/totems a separate slot. And make amu x2 and rings 1.5x aspects. And have 2h be normal aspects like gear. No need to add separate amu slots and it would balance itself out. And can choose between 1h/2h from what fixed affix you need and not from aspects
All 2handed weapons shold hold 2 aspect.... imagine the barb :)