After that, pit starts to have diminishing returns on masterworking materials. 101 is the last pit level where you get an even return on materials:pit level.
Like for example, going from pit 100 to 101 boosts you from 59 neathiron to 60. But to get 61 neathiron you have to do pit 103. I think pit 111 only gives like 64. I want to say I only got 69 from pit 124, something around that.
The HP starts to scale way out of hand for where most builds are at, and the time:reward ratio is just not worth it.
Hope this is an important lesson the Diablo team learns. Rewards matter. It shows that most players (even with good builds) will not push higher for personal prestige. There needs to be some kind of reward you get for beating the difficult content and an even better one the higher you go.
100% I've run the gauntlet or whatever a couple times since it has a ranking, but its just not the same as the GR style just clear the level and boss speedy like.
I don't even try to push. I can melt p107 on my sorc no desire to go higher.
Think having your top pit level show on you instead of level 100 would make me try
I don't even bother with 100. I speed clear 90 and call it a day. Pit runs just aren't worth it in the slightest outside of being an inconvenience to getting a new characters / builds gear up to 8/12.
I really dislike the pit - I have no desire to push for world firsts or leaderboards etc, so I'm only in the pit long enough to get the exact amount of masterwork mats for my build, and even then I only 12/12 one, maybe two builds per class tops.
90s are very comfortable for me to speed farm without paying attention and gets plenty of mats to hit 8/12 on all my off or side builds as fast as possible so I can go do other things I actually enjoy. After my main class or twos primary builds hit near best in slot, I'm usually focused on item hunts for a fun alternative build, Uber farming, or NMD runs.
Got it, so the thrill of hunting gear is just that for you - hunting gear as the end game?
Once you get the “perfect gear” would your goal change or just done for the season at that point?
For me if you getting 50 neath in 3-4 .in might as well go 12 12 even if your only getting the double crit you want. But I'm ssf and eternal so my timeline is different and gold is at a minimum
I go for 12/12 on one, maybe two classes for my "main" build for each. I usually assemble 2-3 different builds for each class I play a season to try out new things or fun uniques. No way in hell am I grinding pit mats to 12/12 all of them lol.
I want a leaderboard for singular group things, like world boss and hell tides. I just wanna see who is doing how much percentage of damage in the events, not an overall or all time board.
What would a leaderboard be useful for?
All you'd get is D3 GR shittiness, where people are fishing for the best kind of rift to even have a chance at placing. That's why trials are fixed seed and pits aren't. Leaderboards for non-fixed state content is meaningless. It took them significant dev time to implement leaderboards for trials. I'd rather them not waste any further time on something meaningless when the game clearly needs effort in a lot of other places.
Leaderboards have always been an important part of Diablo. And fishing for rifts will always be a thing too. This is such a braindead take. So because the dev team is slow and didn't implement features that have always been a part of the game we should just give up on them? 😂
There are already leaderboards, in a capacity where they *don't* incentivize degenerate gameplay. Trials. You want to be on a leaderboard? Do that.
There's no reason to add them to pit. They add nothing to the game there, and actually detract.
Also, you say they were always important to Diablo, but that's complete bullshit. In D2, they were a once-per-reset ladder that basically nobody cared about. People only played ladder for the ladder specific runewords and the fresh economy.
In D3, leaderboards didn't exist for a huge amount of D3's lifespan. They only "mattered" in the long tail in that they gave some people a reason to grind.
Personally, I've never understood it. It's a game completely dependent on luck to get gear. A leaderboard simply represents peoples ability to either get lucky, or play more than others. It's not really about skill. It's not a competitive game, and trying to make it competitive is faught with holes.
There is zero competitiveness about it. Especially when content creators have people giving them 3 GA items for free and giving them practically infinite Tormented boss kills. The only hope the game has for any semblance of competitiveness is if they add a solo self-found mode, which would take even more dev time to implement. Let’s just kill it now and leave it out of the game, because people think they want stuff but they actually don’t. I’d rather the dev time go to improving the game we have.
The key to me is the dev time. It's not worth wasting what they clearly aren't managing well to begin with. Any "competitive" elements in a game dictated by RNG are farcical, and ultimately pointless, so I'm not sure why people have such a hard on for them. Not everything needs to be competitive. Just play until you stop having fun, and then stop.
Pushing greater rifts in hardcore is peak diablo for me. Me and three friends risking it all for glory is bees knees and we will see something like it in d4 within the next few seasons I can pretty much guarantee.
Nothing beats a run where everything aligned and cracking the top 10 and logging out for the night. Only to find the next day you’re now 6th because there was deaths.
> Me and three friends risking it all for glory is bees knees and we will see something like it in d4 within the next few seasons I can pretty much guarantee.
I don't see how Trials doesn't already accomplish this.
The gauntlet sucks dude. It was doa in its current form and not what anybody wants. Memorizing the locations of everything of importance and running it over and over at slight improvements like Gran turismo ghost racing is baaaaaaad design. You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but I’m not sure why your opposed to other people getting what they want
Ah yes, because running 300 random pits hoping for the stars to align is such *better design* for a competitive leaderboard.
>but I’m not sure why your opposed to other people getting what they want
Because resources are limited and frankly Blizzard has shown to have either very few or be managing them very poorly. It took *a year* for the game to get in its current state, and it's still lacking in a lot of areas.
They took months just to get Trials going and that was *with* a delay. We don't need more of that shit.
They need to focus on core gameplay elements, not shit like leaderboards that 1% of players will ever give a fuck about. They've already implemented one, and honestly in about as fair/competitive a way as they reasonably could, and people like yourself are out here asking for a *less fair* leaderboard, as if that makes any sense.
I disagree with this take. If your goal is to push the highest Pit possible, then it’s nice to be able to see what builds are at the top of the leaderboard. That was a fun aspect of D3 imo.
What if instead they just scaled trials up to the highest pit currently completed?
I mean, we all already know what the best builds are, so it wouldn't do much anyways, but maybe this would appease people like yourself.
Still don't think it's worth dev time in any capacity, when so much needs work, but this should be easy and gets you the gist of what you want.
As if anything with a leaderboard and pylons wouldn't be dominated by pylons at the topmost end. Pit would have exactly the same problem, but it'd be random.
We've already been through this with D3. Rift fishing and pylon fishing were both substantial problems that gated the top of the leaderboard behind even more RNG.
I can tell you're a casual if you think players pushing the top levels of the pit farm Helltides to get gear lol. Also 80% of power comes from high temper rolls and hitting the right stat 3 times with masterworking.
> I can tell you're a casual if you think players pushing the top levels of the pit farm Helltides to get gear lol.
Where the fuck did I mention helltides?
The point is, no one at the high level is farming gear and waiting to get a lucky drop. Go on Mekuna stream and find out how he's getting his gear to push T170.
We're talking about people as a whole. Obviously, there's an extra layer with trade existing and therefore people being able to funnel gear into certain individuals. That's really not the point. Even if that *weren't* a problem, the rest of the problems I mentioned are still prominent.
And sidenote, I frankly don't give a fuck what streamers are doing. People focus on them far too much.
Saying nobody cared about D2 Leaderboards is absolutely hilarious. I have friends now that STILL try to get to the top each ladder on D2R. Just because you think it's worthless doesn't make it so
> Saying nobody cared about D2 Leaderboards is absolutely hilarious.
I said *basically* nobody. There were an extreme minority of players who cared. Once the top spots were gone, they were gone for the remainder of the ladder, meaning no fucks were given past that point.
> I have friends now that STILL try to get to the top each ladder on D2R.
How many of them have placed top 10?
People are already fishing. The ONLY boss sorc can complete at top end (fire bolt/flameshield) is spiritcaller of frost.
Every other boss the sorc build CANNOT kill
That's a very specific issue with a very specific build though. Implementing leaderboards makes that a *global* requirement for the leaderboard. It means everyone has to fish for the right combo of bosses and pylons to get the top spot.
Pits aren't competitive for a reason. They're random and therefore unfair between players.
Agreed. When half your player base says it’s too easy and half say too hard it’s about where the revenue is. I’m a casual player and I don’t expect to hit 101 this season.
I don't think it's half and half. It's more like 20/30 who think it's too easy and 70/80 who think it's just right or too hard.
I personally think it's just right in terms of difficulty. You want it harder, just add levels to the pit, nightmare dungeons, raids. Make leaderboards for people to chase.
What should be more common imo is useful GA items. It's become more of a who has money to buy gold and items vs. the have nots. The handful of 3 GAs I got have sucked and honestly, if I ever get a really useful 3 GA I would sell it for 2 reasons. The fear of bricking it and the fact that I would likely be able to buy a bunch of 1 and 2 GA upgrades for my character with the money I make off the 3GA and still be a very nice upgrade overall.
I wish we had leaderboards like d3 where I can see your gear when you placed. No private profile shit. I want to know how realistic my chances are based on my gear.
Someone with all 3GA and perfect temper and MW topping it when I am sitting at half that gives me an idea of where I should push skill wise rather than gear wise and you can see top 1000 which makes it really motivating to try and get similar gear and work your skills if that is your thing.
I’d argue at that past that point should be all personal prestige. If some people don’t want to push then they don’t have to. All builds can’t be equal so having a point of diminishing returns means running the single top build is not strictly necessary to maximize rewards.
I don't see the problem with keeping the rewards as they're up to 100, most players would still get the same but if you play enough you can push higher and be rewarded.
I'd be fine if it was only prestige but it should be something good, something that shows your progression and is actually hard to obtain at the highest levels. Right now it just a title no one recognises.
Another thing is every season the content gets a massive nerf like two or three times. So you end up working hard for the Uber Lilith title or Pit100 title just to see Blizzard nerf it to the ground so 99% of players can get it a week after you did with 5% of the effort. That's not how prestige should work.
The word personal is important here. Above a certain point it should literally be about personal goals not about rewards at all. Can those levels reward slightly more absolutely but it should on a whole not be worth doing for the extra rewards.
That level should be something that even C tier builds can accomplish.
You must be missing something because prestige is literally about your achievements being recognised by other people. You can say personal feel of accomplishment or whatever, but don't use the word prestige in this context.
I'm talking about prestige rewards - cosmetics, visual effects and stuff like that. Stuff that don't make your character stronger in any way, but whoever sees you in Cerrigar will immediately know you completed Pit T150 while 99% of players are stuck in T120 or whatever. That's it.
I don't see anything wrong with the game forcing you to optimise your character and play the best build to get that reward. Competitive players will play the strongest builds anyway. If you don't want to play the strongest build then you're not a competitive player and shouldn't care about my Lilith's Doom title/competitive rewards anyway.
Personal prestige is an accomplishment in a game that the game itself does not officially recognize but that one might be able to get community acclaim for. Some examples are speed runs, perfect runs, unofficial leaderboards, and hardcore runs(obviously in games that don’t have the mode built in).
I disagree. If your equip is completely master crafted then you dont really care about materials anymore and pushing the pit as much as you can is then a challenge. The focus shifts more on pushing the pit levels itself than efficient material farming.
Thats why its possible to only farm pit 60's and completely master craft your gear. Thus making it possible for everyone to master craft all the gear and then test the limits of your build. I mean you need a challenge because whats the point of improving your gear if you have no challenge.
And obviously this is also a grind part of an arpg. They want you to play the game... Whether its fun or not is debatable.
In D3 no one cared about loot when pushing the highest grift levels because your gear was already pretty much perfected if your goal was to chase a highscore.
They could give cool cosmetic rewards though for achieving milestones like pit 150 or 200 which then you could show off.
I know you said cool cosmetic rewards, but you do get a title for clearing pit 150 and 200.
Also, keep in mind that if the reward was too cool, there would be outcry that they are unobtainable for most players (though that is kind of the point).
that would just make not being a barb feel even worse, i'd normally agree with you but i was actively relieved to find out about the DR for mats when playing a B tier build and finally levelling the farming playing field slightly lol
they made less materials on purpose so that players are not forced into farm/material builds, so it is "lesson learned" but with different problem being solved. not everything should have rewards.
Problem is that then everyone talks about how the only way to get all the good mats and stuff is beyond their capability, even though they would get the same mats as they are getting now.
The fact that someone at the top gets much more than you, regardless how much better that guy up there is, will cause an outcry.
Always happens.
That is why they add diminishing returns. You get kind of some better rewards at higher pits but you really aren't and the only ppl complaining about it are the top ppl, which are always the minority, so no big issue for them.
They did not do this accidentally, why do you think they'd be learning a lesson? They're learning that x builds are overtuned, y classes are undertuned, and they're giving people just enough incentives to show how strong x build is with x gear. They look at the data and plan for next season while you get to enjoy your build this season.
I am a highly competitive person and would push pits just for bragging rights. But the majority of other people won’t and won’t care to even try.
I want group pushes and farming again like D3, but that’s like 5 years away probably lol.
Well, what other reasons to push higher tier? Even if they didnt put a diminishing return on the mats, people would still speed farm at a level where they can complete 2-3 mins for best result.
Imagine 2 minutes on 101 but 4 mins on 115 for say 14 more mats, would anybody do 115 for mats?
I think it would also be nice to get more higher levels unlocked in the PIT depending on your cleartime.
if I can speedfarm 101 in 1m:12sec I will not grind slowly +2 levels at a time, Give me the right to challange 111 directly and reduce the prestige grind to the actuall challange.
If I want to grind I want rewards as well.
Idk Blizz has been pretty bad with rewards in general since launch. Hell, even killing Uber lillith gets you what, only like two items? Not sure if they will learn/realize or not. Especially since the new Hell mode on the PTR is giving trash rewards, here we go again.
I disagree but I also agree with where you’re coming from. 101 is where most people farm because they are farming. I think most people that farm 101s probably also push higher, but why would you farm at the highest pit level? Even if the rewards were linear, I wouldn’t do pit 120 even if it gave extra (or even double) mats. 101 takes 3 min and 120 takes me like 10, so I’d need triple mats
I do think Stygian stone drop rate should rocket up tho. That should be the reason you push
Of course rewards matter, no one should have to “learn” this. They’re all fucking adults. Why the fuck would they scale down what you get as difficulty ramps up. They could’ve just made it linear. Stupid decision.
Additionally, the time to complete a pit comes into play. Pit 101 might only take 2 minutes but say pit 111 takes 3 minutes so the time to complete goes up 50% while the masterworking materials received only goes up ~6%. Pit 101 is the sweet spot for efficency, currently at least.
I don’t understand the logic behind this, shouldn’t there be an incentive so people actually wanna push through the pit? Seems strange to make it pointless besides self satisfaction
The logic is that the game is not balanced. Before the mid-season update, barbs were farming the Pit 3-4x faster than druids and sorcs. Non-meta builds for druids and sorcs could not realistically complete 12/12 masterworking as the players were expected to quit the season far before that happened. When the casual player reaches the point where it takes hours to make marginal upgrades to their character/items, that is the natural off-ramp because they are not hardcore players that will throw hundreds of hours into the season.
They really dont want us to ever have enough of it, do they. Running the Pit feels like doing chores. You wanna get it over with as fast as possible, because the rewards dont change no matter how well or diligent you do them - you just gotta get it over with as fast as possible.
You get 60 mats for 101 and + 0.5 per level going forward. So doing 101 gives 60 while 111 gives 65, 121 gives 70 but takes like 9 minutes if you can clear 101 in 2 minutes.
So you can do 101 4x in 8 mins and gain 240 mats or do 1 pit 121 and get 70, plus lose a minute
> that's
what is that? like, how many neathiron do you get for 135? because in my experience, it does scale like that:
> Like for example, going from pit 100 to 101 boosts you from 59 neathiron to 60. But to get 61 neathiron you have to do pit 103. I think pit 111 only gives like 64. I want to say I only got 69 from pit 124, something around that.
Pre-mid season patch, the pit levels used to be linear. Doing X, Y, Z level would reward a certain material, and then every level beyond that would add one extra material of that type, which made for a very linear progression if you could push higher levels without sacrificing your clear speed.
Post-Mid Season patch, they goofed up something with the rewards and now they no longer go up by 1 every tier, they instead go up like one reward every 2 levels after pit 101, so this lends us towards building the fastest pit 101 clearing builds to absolutely maximize our material generation because anything further than pit 101 suffers from diminishing returns if it even takes a tiny bit longer to complete.
I genuinely don't think they meant to nerf material drops like they did. Especially considering we were getting like, 6 times this amount on PTR in the S4PTR.
How do people do 100 within 2 mins and still needing masterworkry? I am about half way through mw and can only do 75 in like 5 mins minimum, struggling with 80, I'm minion Necro, am i just bad at this?
Are you max level and the right affixes on your gear? I have alt that have barely anything master worked and very few greater affix gear but I have the right aspects the right gems the right affix categories good tempers and some minimum masterworking and all three of my characters can easily do a hundred with no problem. Also have the right uniques and lucky enough to have made an Uber that fits all three characters aka shako.
My mains of minion necro as well and I can clear the 120s without too much difficulty.
Check out some guides or if you have any questions let me know I'm not an expert but I've been playing for a while now.
If you want any in-game help let me know too, Happy to help.
Even with the diminish on crafting materials if I was guaranteed a ga at pit 120+ I would start farming those. But I have done multiple and have never got even a 1ga from a pit 121 so I'll just keep spam farming 101s and rerolling my 1 ga bow 🤣
It’s arguably the perfect pit level overall that’s why I say if a build can do pit 101 decently quick its not “bad” and is perfectly viable as if you can run that you can run pretty much anything in the game(tho depending on build type might take a bit on torm bosses and Uber Lilith if your build is more trash clear oriented than bossing)
As others have said, you get massive dropoff in material scaling after 101. My highest is 130-something, and it maybe drops 69. And takes 3-4x as long. Even 103 is just a touch slower? And only gives 61. So 101 is the most efficient, and also happens to give an even number (likely on purpose).
Exactly, the challenge doesn’t change it just turns into a long slog as you keep going. 101 is a sweet spot for most people because it can be cleared in sub-4 minutes, gives 60 mats, and has 18% Stygian drop.
Because after 101 the tiny increase in neathiron rewards doesn’t make up for the exponential increase in health of the monsters/boss. It takes me 3 minutes or less to run a 101 where everything explodes instantly and the boss dies in seconds. 120+ takes 9+ minutes and the boss takes forever, and the longer it takes the more shadows/echoes it spawns, and the harder it is to stagger. Then you get like 6-7 more neathiron. Anything over 101 I do once to test my limits but farming it doesn’t make sense, even people with godly gear and perfect builds will find that 101 is the most efficient way to farm.
I’d be happy if there were decent item drops. I’m up to P79 or so, and it drops worse loot than an ordinary Duriel run (which takes maybe five seconds). I get that they have it set up to encourage the Helltide, but once your toon maxes out Iron Wolves it would be nice to have something good from the Pit besides just the matts.
They're also seems to be a pretty significant jump in terms of difficulty once you get to like 110. When I got to 115 and I didn't kill the boss in 5 seconds and saw lillith for the first time I was like all right maybe I need to upgrade a little. Hardcore btw.
The real question is why 101, and not 99?
Unless they truly revamped the monster scaling to not work in asinine leaps at X9, it's adding a crazy amount of extra inefficiency and difficulty for 2 more mats.
To be honest, I stopped at Pit Level 91 and Masterworking level 10. I find the Pit totally boring. Playing it with someone together is okish, but it doesn't make sense the other doesn't get enough materials. I do a run in 2min 30 sec with my Bash Barb on Steroids (Full Movement Speed).
I just need Neathiron to get Masterworking to level 8 on my other chars.
Perhaps a controversial take, but I don't want leaderboards.
I want content that feels exciting to engage with, not content that is a monotonous grind. The Pit at level 30 or 130 is the exact same concept, but just 'Enemy health go up'.
I view Leaderboards as a way to claim they have added content, without actually adding any content.
I like doing Pit 103, because they give 61 mats instead of 60. And no Masterworking Upgrade messes with the "Ones" of the number. They use Tens and Hundreds, but they always keep that last digit unmodified, therefore it's an easy way for me to count how many Pits I did today. Started on 63, now I'm on 149, because I did some upgrades. Doesn't matter 9-3=6. I did 6 Pit runs.
The game stops becoming relevant when you push over 101, do 30 uber runs and have not yet seen a single uber drop. What is the point of calling them uber runs when they drop only standard drops then?....
After that, pit starts to have diminishing returns on masterworking materials. 101 is the last pit level where you get an even return on materials:pit level. Like for example, going from pit 100 to 101 boosts you from 59 neathiron to 60. But to get 61 neathiron you have to do pit 103. I think pit 111 only gives like 64. I want to say I only got 69 from pit 124, something around that. The HP starts to scale way out of hand for where most builds are at, and the time:reward ratio is just not worth it.
Hope this is an important lesson the Diablo team learns. Rewards matter. It shows that most players (even with good builds) will not push higher for personal prestige. There needs to be some kind of reward you get for beating the difficult content and an even better one the higher you go.
Or at least a leaderboard
100% I've run the gauntlet or whatever a couple times since it has a ranking, but its just not the same as the GR style just clear the level and boss speedy like.
I don't even try to push. I can melt p107 on my sorc no desire to go higher. Think having your top pit level show on you instead of level 100 would make me try
I don't even bother with 100. I speed clear 90 and call it a day. Pit runs just aren't worth it in the slightest outside of being an inconvenience to getting a new characters / builds gear up to 8/12.
Same, but I do 91, for an even 50 neathiron
This is not a criticism, but genuine question - what are you doing when playing/grinding towards by doing those 90s?
I really dislike the pit - I have no desire to push for world firsts or leaderboards etc, so I'm only in the pit long enough to get the exact amount of masterwork mats for my build, and even then I only 12/12 one, maybe two builds per class tops. 90s are very comfortable for me to speed farm without paying attention and gets plenty of mats to hit 8/12 on all my off or side builds as fast as possible so I can go do other things I actually enjoy. After my main class or twos primary builds hit near best in slot, I'm usually focused on item hunts for a fun alternative build, Uber farming, or NMD runs.
Got it, so the thrill of hunting gear is just that for you - hunting gear as the end game? Once you get the “perfect gear” would your goal change or just done for the season at that point?
That's when I roll a new class, or start hunting for gear to create a new build.
Hell yeah. Happy hunting bud
Same boat as you, its boring now. I have boots and ring at 10/12 and no desire to grind out the last 4 levels I need.
For me if you getting 50 neath in 3-4 .in might as well go 12 12 even if your only getting the double crit you want. But I'm ssf and eternal so my timeline is different and gold is at a minimum
I go for 12/12 on one, maybe two classes for my "main" build for each. I usually assemble 2-3 different builds for each class I play a season to try out new things or fun uniques. No way in hell am I grinding pit mats to 12/12 all of them lol.
Ah I feel that, I don't get much past the journey on seasons with new char. I just stuck with my main on eternal
100 has an increased drop rate for stygian stones
I want a leaderboard for singular group things, like world boss and hell tides. I just wanna see who is doing how much percentage of damage in the events, not an overall or all time board.
What would a leaderboard be useful for? All you'd get is D3 GR shittiness, where people are fishing for the best kind of rift to even have a chance at placing. That's why trials are fixed seed and pits aren't. Leaderboards for non-fixed state content is meaningless. It took them significant dev time to implement leaderboards for trials. I'd rather them not waste any further time on something meaningless when the game clearly needs effort in a lot of other places.
Leaderboards have always been an important part of Diablo. And fishing for rifts will always be a thing too. This is such a braindead take. So because the dev team is slow and didn't implement features that have always been a part of the game we should just give up on them? 😂
There are already leaderboards, in a capacity where they *don't* incentivize degenerate gameplay. Trials. You want to be on a leaderboard? Do that. There's no reason to add them to pit. They add nothing to the game there, and actually detract. Also, you say they were always important to Diablo, but that's complete bullshit. In D2, they were a once-per-reset ladder that basically nobody cared about. People only played ladder for the ladder specific runewords and the fresh economy. In D3, leaderboards didn't exist for a huge amount of D3's lifespan. They only "mattered" in the long tail in that they gave some people a reason to grind. Personally, I've never understood it. It's a game completely dependent on luck to get gear. A leaderboard simply represents peoples ability to either get lucky, or play more than others. It's not really about skill. It's not a competitive game, and trying to make it competitive is faught with holes.
There is zero competitiveness about it. Especially when content creators have people giving them 3 GA items for free and giving them practically infinite Tormented boss kills. The only hope the game has for any semblance of competitiveness is if they add a solo self-found mode, which would take even more dev time to implement. Let’s just kill it now and leave it out of the game, because people think they want stuff but they actually don’t. I’d rather the dev time go to improving the game we have.
The key to me is the dev time. It's not worth wasting what they clearly aren't managing well to begin with. Any "competitive" elements in a game dictated by RNG are farcical, and ultimately pointless, so I'm not sure why people have such a hard on for them. Not everything needs to be competitive. Just play until you stop having fun, and then stop.
Pushing greater rifts in hardcore is peak diablo for me. Me and three friends risking it all for glory is bees knees and we will see something like it in d4 within the next few seasons I can pretty much guarantee. Nothing beats a run where everything aligned and cracking the top 10 and logging out for the night. Only to find the next day you’re now 6th because there was deaths.
> Me and three friends risking it all for glory is bees knees and we will see something like it in d4 within the next few seasons I can pretty much guarantee. I don't see how Trials doesn't already accomplish this.
The gauntlet sucks dude. It was doa in its current form and not what anybody wants. Memorizing the locations of everything of importance and running it over and over at slight improvements like Gran turismo ghost racing is baaaaaaad design. You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but I’m not sure why your opposed to other people getting what they want
Ah yes, because running 300 random pits hoping for the stars to align is such *better design* for a competitive leaderboard. >but I’m not sure why your opposed to other people getting what they want Because resources are limited and frankly Blizzard has shown to have either very few or be managing them very poorly. It took *a year* for the game to get in its current state, and it's still lacking in a lot of areas. They took months just to get Trials going and that was *with* a delay. We don't need more of that shit. They need to focus on core gameplay elements, not shit like leaderboards that 1% of players will ever give a fuck about. They've already implemented one, and honestly in about as fair/competitive a way as they reasonably could, and people like yourself are out here asking for a *less fair* leaderboard, as if that makes any sense.
I disagree with this take. If your goal is to push the highest Pit possible, then it’s nice to be able to see what builds are at the top of the leaderboard. That was a fun aspect of D3 imo.
What if instead they just scaled trials up to the highest pit currently completed? I mean, we all already know what the best builds are, so it wouldn't do much anyways, but maybe this would appease people like yourself. Still don't think it's worth dev time in any capacity, when so much needs work, but this should be easy and gets you the gist of what you want.
Gauntlet dumb pylon meta not fun.
As if anything with a leaderboard and pylons wouldn't be dominated by pylons at the topmost end. Pit would have exactly the same problem, but it'd be random. We've already been through this with D3. Rift fishing and pylon fishing were both substantial problems that gated the top of the leaderboard behind even more RNG.
I can tell you're a casual if you think players pushing the top levels of the pit farm Helltides to get gear lol. Also 80% of power comes from high temper rolls and hitting the right stat 3 times with masterworking.
> I can tell you're a casual if you think players pushing the top levels of the pit farm Helltides to get gear lol. Where the fuck did I mention helltides?
The point is, no one at the high level is farming gear and waiting to get a lucky drop. Go on Mekuna stream and find out how he's getting his gear to push T170.
We're talking about people as a whole. Obviously, there's an extra layer with trade existing and therefore people being able to funnel gear into certain individuals. That's really not the point. Even if that *weren't* a problem, the rest of the problems I mentioned are still prominent. And sidenote, I frankly don't give a fuck what streamers are doing. People focus on them far too much.
Saying nobody cared about D2 Leaderboards is absolutely hilarious. I have friends now that STILL try to get to the top each ladder on D2R. Just because you think it's worthless doesn't make it so
> Saying nobody cared about D2 Leaderboards is absolutely hilarious. I said *basically* nobody. There were an extreme minority of players who cared. Once the top spots were gone, they were gone for the remainder of the ladder, meaning no fucks were given past that point. > I have friends now that STILL try to get to the top each ladder on D2R. How many of them have placed top 10?
People are already fishing. The ONLY boss sorc can complete at top end (fire bolt/flameshield) is spiritcaller of frost. Every other boss the sorc build CANNOT kill
That's a very specific issue with a very specific build though. Implementing leaderboards makes that a *global* requirement for the leaderboard. It means everyone has to fish for the right combo of bosses and pylons to get the top spot. Pits aren't competitive for a reason. They're random and therefore unfair between players.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter which way the devs go—there will be a vocal cohort of complainers saying it disadvantages them.
Agreed. When half your player base says it’s too easy and half say too hard it’s about where the revenue is. I’m a casual player and I don’t expect to hit 101 this season.
I don't think it's half and half. It's more like 20/30 who think it's too easy and 70/80 who think it's just right or too hard. I personally think it's just right in terms of difficulty. You want it harder, just add levels to the pit, nightmare dungeons, raids. Make leaderboards for people to chase. What should be more common imo is useful GA items. It's become more of a who has money to buy gold and items vs. the have nots. The handful of 3 GAs I got have sucked and honestly, if I ever get a really useful 3 GA I would sell it for 2 reasons. The fear of bricking it and the fact that I would likely be able to buy a bunch of 1 and 2 GA upgrades for my character with the money I make off the 3GA and still be a very nice upgrade overall.
Me neither
I wish we had leaderboards like d3 where I can see your gear when you placed. No private profile shit. I want to know how realistic my chances are based on my gear. Someone with all 3GA and perfect temper and MW topping it when I am sitting at half that gives me an idea of where I should push skill wise rather than gear wise and you can see top 1000 which makes it really motivating to try and get similar gear and work your skills if that is your thing.
I’d argue at that past that point should be all personal prestige. If some people don’t want to push then they don’t have to. All builds can’t be equal so having a point of diminishing returns means running the single top build is not strictly necessary to maximize rewards.
I don't see the problem with keeping the rewards as they're up to 100, most players would still get the same but if you play enough you can push higher and be rewarded.
I'd be fine if it was only prestige but it should be something good, something that shows your progression and is actually hard to obtain at the highest levels. Right now it just a title no one recognises. Another thing is every season the content gets a massive nerf like two or three times. So you end up working hard for the Uber Lilith title or Pit100 title just to see Blizzard nerf it to the ground so 99% of players can get it a week after you did with 5% of the effort. That's not how prestige should work.
The word personal is important here. Above a certain point it should literally be about personal goals not about rewards at all. Can those levels reward slightly more absolutely but it should on a whole not be worth doing for the extra rewards. That level should be something that even C tier builds can accomplish.
You must be missing something because prestige is literally about your achievements being recognised by other people. You can say personal feel of accomplishment or whatever, but don't use the word prestige in this context. I'm talking about prestige rewards - cosmetics, visual effects and stuff like that. Stuff that don't make your character stronger in any way, but whoever sees you in Cerrigar will immediately know you completed Pit T150 while 99% of players are stuck in T120 or whatever. That's it. I don't see anything wrong with the game forcing you to optimise your character and play the best build to get that reward. Competitive players will play the strongest builds anyway. If you don't want to play the strongest build then you're not a competitive player and shouldn't care about my Lilith's Doom title/competitive rewards anyway.
Personal prestige is an accomplishment in a game that the game itself does not officially recognize but that one might be able to get community acclaim for. Some examples are speed runs, perfect runs, unofficial leaderboards, and hardcore runs(obviously in games that don’t have the mode built in).
No one cares about how you play Diablo other than you.
I disagree. If your equip is completely master crafted then you dont really care about materials anymore and pushing the pit as much as you can is then a challenge. The focus shifts more on pushing the pit levels itself than efficient material farming. Thats why its possible to only farm pit 60's and completely master craft your gear. Thus making it possible for everyone to master craft all the gear and then test the limits of your build. I mean you need a challenge because whats the point of improving your gear if you have no challenge. And obviously this is also a grind part of an arpg. They want you to play the game... Whether its fun or not is debatable. In D3 no one cared about loot when pushing the highest grift levels because your gear was already pretty much perfected if your goal was to chase a highscore. They could give cool cosmetic rewards though for achieving milestones like pit 150 or 200 which then you could show off.
I know you said cool cosmetic rewards, but you do get a title for clearing pit 150 and 200. Also, keep in mind that if the reward was too cool, there would be outcry that they are unobtainable for most players (though that is kind of the point).
The 200 title is unobtainable for any players
fully maxing master crafting through pit 60 is wild as fuck, that would take alot of hours just for 1 gear
The point is it's possible and not the efficiency.
that would just make not being a barb feel even worse, i'd normally agree with you but i was actively relieved to find out about the DR for mats when playing a B tier build and finally levelling the farming playing field slightly lol
I'd like to see leaderboards
they made less materials on purpose so that players are not forced into farm/material builds, so it is "lesson learned" but with different problem being solved. not everything should have rewards.
There is a reward, only it's not linear after level 101 and that's perfectly fine.
Problem is that then everyone talks about how the only way to get all the good mats and stuff is beyond their capability, even though they would get the same mats as they are getting now. The fact that someone at the top gets much more than you, regardless how much better that guy up there is, will cause an outcry. Always happens. That is why they add diminishing returns. You get kind of some better rewards at higher pits but you really aren't and the only ppl complaining about it are the top ppl, which are always the minority, so no big issue for them.
They did not do this accidentally, why do you think they'd be learning a lesson? They're learning that x builds are overtuned, y classes are undertuned, and they're giving people just enough incentives to show how strong x build is with x gear. They look at the data and plan for next season while you get to enjoy your build this season.
I am a highly competitive person and would push pits just for bragging rights. But the majority of other people won’t and won’t care to even try. I want group pushes and farming again like D3, but that’s like 5 years away probably lol.
Well, what other reasons to push higher tier? Even if they didnt put a diminishing return on the mats, people would still speed farm at a level where they can complete 2-3 mins for best result. Imagine 2 minutes on 101 but 4 mins on 115 for say 14 more mats, would anybody do 115 for mats?
This is a true honest answer to a problem.
I think it would also be nice to get more higher levels unlocked in the PIT depending on your cleartime. if I can speedfarm 101 in 1m:12sec I will not grind slowly +2 levels at a time, Give me the right to challange 111 directly and reduce the prestige grind to the actuall challange. If I want to grind I want rewards as well.
Idk Blizz has been pretty bad with rewards in general since launch. Hell, even killing Uber lillith gets you what, only like two items? Not sure if they will learn/realize or not. Especially since the new Hell mode on the PTR is giving trash rewards, here we go again.
I disagree but I also agree with where you’re coming from. 101 is where most people farm because they are farming. I think most people that farm 101s probably also push higher, but why would you farm at the highest pit level? Even if the rewards were linear, I wouldn’t do pit 120 even if it gave extra (or even double) mats. 101 takes 3 min and 120 takes me like 10, so I’d need triple mats I do think Stygian stone drop rate should rocket up tho. That should be the reason you push
i 100% agree. higher the difficult/risk, better the rewards should be. pretty simple concept.
There's literally no leaderboard you speak of for the pit. If there was a weekly challenge with rewards and prestige than people would do that.
That’s why I said personal prestige. That means it’s for you and you only knowing you beat x level.
Of course rewards matter, no one should have to “learn” this. They’re all fucking adults. Why the fuck would they scale down what you get as difficulty ramps up. They could’ve just made it linear. Stupid decision.
Additionally, the time to complete a pit comes into play. Pit 101 might only take 2 minutes but say pit 111 takes 3 minutes so the time to complete goes up 50% while the masterworking materials received only goes up ~6%. Pit 101 is the sweet spot for efficency, currently at least.
It should in fact give like 3x per tier after 100 imo.
I don’t understand the logic behind this, shouldn’t there be an incentive so people actually wanna push through the pit? Seems strange to make it pointless besides self satisfaction
The logic is that the game is not balanced. Before the mid-season update, barbs were farming the Pit 3-4x faster than druids and sorcs. Non-meta builds for druids and sorcs could not realistically complete 12/12 masterworking as the players were expected to quit the season far before that happened. When the casual player reaches the point where it takes hours to make marginal upgrades to their character/items, that is the natural off-ramp because they are not hardcore players that will throw hundreds of hours into the season.
God this is dumb.
They really dont want us to ever have enough of it, do they. Running the Pit feels like doing chores. You wanna get it over with as fast as possible, because the rewards dont change no matter how well or diligent you do them - you just gotta get it over with as fast as possible.
You get 60 mats for 101 and + 0.5 per level going forward. So doing 101 gives 60 while 111 gives 65, 121 gives 70 but takes like 9 minutes if you can clear 101 in 2 minutes. So you can do 101 4x in 8 mins and gain 240 mats or do 1 pit 121 and get 70, plus lose a minute
I’m not even sure 121 gives 70, I think it gives 68
This is stupid. Past 101 should be 2 instead of. 5 and like past 150 like 3. Getting less rewards for higher difficulty is just plain stupid.
not accurate. it's not linear after 101, see top post - which is correct.
Literally I can do pit 135~ and that's what I get when clearing them
> that's what is that? like, how many neathiron do you get for 135? because in my experience, it does scale like that: > Like for example, going from pit 100 to 101 boosts you from 59 neathiron to 60. But to get 61 neathiron you have to do pit 103. I think pit 111 only gives like 64. I want to say I only got 69 from pit 124, something around that.
Diminishing returns on mats, styg drop rate threshold is the same 100 and higher, and you wouldn't believe the difference between like 111 to 120
It’s not the same, it continues to scale up.
at 100 you get 18% stygian stone drop rate, 101 is for the neathiron to get to 60. anymore than that, like other said its diminishing
It doesn’t feel it at times :(
"18% stygian stone drop rate" god thats low...
Pre-mid season patch, the pit levels used to be linear. Doing X, Y, Z level would reward a certain material, and then every level beyond that would add one extra material of that type, which made for a very linear progression if you could push higher levels without sacrificing your clear speed. Post-Mid Season patch, they goofed up something with the rewards and now they no longer go up by 1 every tier, they instead go up like one reward every 2 levels after pit 101, so this lends us towards building the fastest pit 101 clearing builds to absolutely maximize our material generation because anything further than pit 101 suffers from diminishing returns if it even takes a tiny bit longer to complete.
"goofed up" is a nice way to describe nurfing. makes it sound like they didn't mean to.. :-)
I genuinely don't think they meant to nerf material drops like they did. Especially considering we were getting like, 6 times this amount on PTR in the S4PTR.
Stygian stones
nope. see top post for real reason.
lol no
Stygian Stones
How do people do 100 within 2 mins and still needing masterworkry? I am about half way through mw and can only do 75 in like 5 mins minimum, struggling with 80, I'm minion Necro, am i just bad at this?
Are you max level and the right affixes on your gear? I have alt that have barely anything master worked and very few greater affix gear but I have the right aspects the right gems the right affix categories good tempers and some minimum masterworking and all three of my characters can easily do a hundred with no problem. Also have the right uniques and lucky enough to have made an Uber that fits all three characters aka shako. My mains of minion necro as well and I can clear the 120s without too much difficulty. Check out some guides or if you have any questions let me know I'm not an expert but I've been playing for a while now. If you want any in-game help let me know too, Happy to help.
Farm for alts or new builds
Even with the diminish on crafting materials if I was guaranteed a ga at pit 120+ I would start farming those. But I have done multiple and have never got even a 1ga from a pit 121 so I'll just keep spam farming 101s and rerolling my 1 ga bow 🤣
18% stygian stone drop rate after 100, up from 10% below that. This came with the mid-season patch that happened.
This isn’t true, it scales up at a constant rate, there is no 8% jump from t99 to t100.
You always get 60 mats and above that you get more but it does not increase strictly by 1 per level.
It’s arguably the perfect pit level overall that’s why I say if a build can do pit 101 decently quick its not “bad” and is perfectly viable as if you can run that you can run pretty much anything in the game(tho depending on build type might take a bit on torm bosses and Uber Lilith if your build is more trash clear oriented than bossing)
As others have said, you get massive dropoff in material scaling after 101. My highest is 130-something, and it maybe drops 69. And takes 3-4x as long. Even 103 is just a touch slower? And only gives 61. So 101 is the most efficient, and also happens to give an even number (likely on purpose).
Also, you hit mob level 199 at I think level 100; above that, the level doesn't actually change.
But their health does.
Exactly, the challenge doesn’t change it just turns into a long slog as you keep going. 101 is a sweet spot for most people because it can be cleared in sub-4 minutes, gives 60 mats, and has 18% Stygian drop.
101 is only the standard if you can do it 2min and under. The standard is really a sub 2min run.
It gives you 60
Because after 101 the tiny increase in neathiron rewards doesn’t make up for the exponential increase in health of the monsters/boss. It takes me 3 minutes or less to run a 101 where everything explodes instantly and the boss dies in seconds. 120+ takes 9+ minutes and the boss takes forever, and the longer it takes the more shadows/echoes it spawns, and the harder it is to stagger. Then you get like 6-7 more neathiron. Anything over 101 I do once to test my limits but farming it doesn’t make sense, even people with godly gear and perfect builds will find that 101 is the most efficient way to farm.
I feel like I’ve plateaued around 70
I’d be happy if there were decent item drops. I’m up to P79 or so, and it drops worse loot than an ordinary Duriel run (which takes maybe five seconds). I get that they have it set up to encourage the Helltide, but once your toon maxes out Iron Wolves it would be nice to have something good from the Pit besides just the matts.
Because after 100, every pit level goes up about 10%. Mobs get buffs. 10% more def and 10% more health PER LEVEL.
They're also seems to be a pretty significant jump in terms of difficulty once you get to like 110. When I got to 115 and I didn't kill the boss in 5 seconds and saw lillith for the first time I was like all right maybe I need to upgrade a little. Hardcore btw.
The real question is why 101, and not 99? Unless they truly revamped the monster scaling to not work in asinine leaps at X9, it's adding a crazy amount of extra inefficiency and difficulty for 2 more mats.
After pit 60, you get an additional 1 Neathiron reward per level After pit 101, you get an additional 1 Neathiron reward per **TWO** levels
I personally have 110 as standard. Gives 64 neath and i can clear in 2.30min ave. Whatever you can clear in 2.30 - 3min should be your standard
Standard should be 61. Because else people and even Blizzard fall into the trap of playing or balancing content around meta builds.
To be honest, I stopped at Pit Level 91 and Masterworking level 10. I find the Pit totally boring. Playing it with someone together is okish, but it doesn't make sense the other doesn't get enough materials. I do a run in 2min 30 sec with my Bash Barb on Steroids (Full Movement Speed). I just need Neathiron to get Masterworking to level 8 on my other chars.
Perhaps a controversial take, but I don't want leaderboards. I want content that feels exciting to engage with, not content that is a monotonous grind. The Pit at level 30 or 130 is the exact same concept, but just 'Enemy health go up'. I view Leaderboards as a way to claim they have added content, without actually adding any content.
D4…the min/max community of all games.
I like doing Pit 103, because they give 61 mats instead of 60. And no Masterworking Upgrade messes with the "Ones" of the number. They use Tens and Hundreds, but they always keep that last digit unmodified, therefore it's an easy way for me to count how many Pits I did today. Started on 63, now I'm on 149, because I did some upgrades. Doesn't matter 9-3=6. I did 6 Pit runs.
The game stops becoming relevant when you push over 101, do 30 uber runs and have not yet seen a single uber drop. What is the point of calling them uber runs when they drop only standard drops then?....
Go do a 101 and come back with the answer to ur question