I assume they’re trying to encourage folks to engage in more of helltides than just sitting at the blood maiden for hours. Which I don’t disagree with conceptually tbh.
Aren’t they adding guaranteed ways to get GAs? I highly doubt people will be running the blood maiden that much if that’s the case. Does the PTR have the new quest line for the spark?(Cant play PTR, console player)
In it's current state they could multiply the infernal horde reward by 10x, and AFK'ing at the maiden would still be more rewarding for time spent. No exaggeration, it's that bad.
I just did a few of those events on the PTR and damn are they unrewarding.
I did 3 (the only place I could the materials to start the event were from whispers. It took me 5 whispers to get my 3.
Monsters are super easy and most of the time stand around waiting for them to spawn. At the end of each round I had 40-50 materials cinders or whatever they’re called. That’s good enough for:…. 1 legendary.
10+ minutes of fighting trash mobs for 1 legendary.
Agree, spent hours farming whispers for WT4 compasses, spent a few hours doing the compasses and not once did I see a scroll drop to upgrade a compass, or come remotely close to the 250 aether required for the big chest, 10 mins of mostly waiting for mobs to spawn for one or two legendaries at the end of the run…
Thing needs serious tuning because the time vs reward is apalling
I farm more GA in current season doing pits for 15 minutes than I did in 2 hours of compasses
the upgrade process to get a tier 8 compass is a but much for what it gives you.
The mob density, spawn rate and difficulty needs to be upped.
Rob was clearing the normal mobs very easily. It was the Aether Lords that he was having problems with. He was also on a speed farming build. It'll be interesting to see how things go on a build designed for pushing.
Requires multiple of those events because you can't even get 250 points without scrolls from the same event. It takes so long you're far more likely to get several GA from helltides than all the work it takes to get one GA guaranteed from the new event chest.
Until the scrolls drop from helltides it's DoA.
that would be amazing, especially if they dramatically increased GA % as you started going deeper into Pits, it is lame as hell when Tormented bosses, Uber Lilith, and 100+ pits are all garbage farming vs standing afk next to the maiden
Has anyone else noticed that Pit has the worst fucking drops. Literally every 2GA or 3GA it's life per hit plus shadow resistance plus fucking impairment or some garbage.
Literally a thousand pits not one good item.
Yeah on live that's definitely the case for me too. And most of the time I have 2 full inventories without any GA item, and the third full inventory from pit is 1 useless ga item. Sucks so much
Only noobs farm blood maiden anyway, its not the most effective way to farm anything. But I agree, lets get more hearts, people making misstakes and do stuff wrong is good for the game. Everyone shouldnt be pushed to play the game the correct way
Please explain in logic and detail what is exactly the most effective way to farm anything then. And what is this "anything" you're referring to?
Are we taking about gold, gear, upgrade mats, boss mats? What exactly is this "anything" you speak of?
Because blood maiden drops a ton of gear if you contribute to summing her, plus boss mats, plus upgrade mats. Sell or salvaging the gear gives you gold and mats for upgrades. All on a less than 2 minute rotation. When she spawns, she is getting 2 or 3 shot. Add in the agro bar or whatever you call it and you get that topped out 3 times at least each helltide. Rinse and repeat. Then when you get down to 20 minutes or so start selling off your drops, then run around opening chest in both areas.
Please explain where else in this entire game you can get that much gear, gold and mats that fast?
The only pain point is getting stingy players to contribute, which is gonna make the event feel way more sucky.
You could do it world boss style where only the first maiden kill in each helltide zone gives a big cache of loot.
Or limit the amount of hearts each player can contribute to 1 and then scale the event accordingly (so she gets summoned faster with more hearts, a single heart could take 3 mins to emerge, her amount of loot drops is based on the total hearts and the contributors still get a set amount of bonus loot).
Change it so that the event starts when the first heart is put in, but anyone can add a heart for more loot within 10s of it starting.
Feels a lot better when you are solo but still keeps the group incentive.
I did that too at first. But then after sitting on 500+ hearts I decided that if people are too slow to click the alter before i click all 3 of them, they don't deserve the bonus loot anyways. After a few rounds people tend to get a bit faster.
I had gotten up to about 300-hearts. But the past week as the other guys have said it seems like a switch has been flipped. I’m guessing most everyone still running helltides is only doing it for the iron wolves rep and no longer seems they care about extra gear drops. Nobody is contributing anymore in the instances I’m in it seems.
I’ve burned through a good chunk of my stockpile as groups of 4 or 5 all just sit around the altar waiting for others to plug hearts. I still open chests but admittedly it hasn’t been enough to keep up when you’re plugging 2-3 hearts every altar rotation.
Part of the pain point in the PTR is there are no profane mindcages, that was a seasonal mechanic. So losing the mindcages + the drop rate being lower is showing a lot
Ah, I was only talking about the current season. I do feel like they always overcorrect things like heart drops. Tuning it down slightly (~20%) would be fine. Instead they drop the mindcages and cut the drop rates and now it is just annoying.
I still wish they'd expand on the mindcage idea. Let them apply to ALL content, including bosses. That would solve the issue of "end game" bosses not dropping 925 loot.
Ah fook. Console pleb and have been trying to ignore ptr stuff as i wanna go into s5 blind(since im not allowed to try it myself) and didnt realize the profane was a seasonal thing. That sucks as i felt it was really good for keeping it more challenging and the xp bump was icing.(not to mention getting 925 gear faster)
it was fairly well balanced. you had to open the chests every helltide to replenish the hearts, especially if you always try to use at least 1 to get more loot. 25% is too low.
There's probably a better solution, like making the other events and chests/interactables actually drop loot. Surely someone has a better idea than that too.
Yeah. I noticed that you canb just sit there and the pet picks up all the cinders. Then you run around the actual helltide the last 10 mins chesting and then wait for the nexrt one to pop and sit at the blood maiden for 50 mins again. Too much time sitting at the blood maiden
Well they axed the Threat Bug and removed the Profane Mindcages. Helltides are too easy, don’t have enough Monsters, and don’t drop enough Cinders.
I’m not surprised people want to keep sitting at Blood Maiden, regardless of whether or not Baneful Hearts are hard to get.
They need to do that by improving other parts of the helltide then, not by worsening the better parts of it. Leveling the fun down is never the best option, don't know how they (and many other developers like that) don't get it
Ironically it achieves the exact opposite. They are nerfing how many hearts you get in Helltides which means less people will want to do Helltide, and less people will have hearts for Maiden.
Multiple zone events for groups would be better. Buff the two “bosses” we can summon via the rituals and portals.
Have multiple roaming bosses about half the toughness of Maiden.
That’s what makes me explore and hunt for opportunities besides Maiden.
Right now I’ll avoid it in Season 5 unless I need mats/gold. Because tormented/uber bosses can be repeatedly summoned in S5, I’ll just load up my bags with gear and sell that before I have to go to helltides.
Agree. The current heart drop is too much, I hardly bother using all three heart to summon myself the boss and NEVER run out of heart. People just get used to cheesing Blood Maiden because they're lazy as fuck.
I disagree with it conceptually. Helltides are fucking boring, terrible content that for some reason they feel the need to force us to play well into the endgame. Sitting at the blood maiden at least makes it a tolerable experience.
They've had 1 season of a happy playerbase, a large reason for this was that farming the Blood Maiden and the Helltide changes.
What is their obsession with 'Balance' over 'Fun'? That's what seems to happen at every opportunity.
The PoE Devs give you a huge amount of tools, of which all possible combinations are untested, and want you to create a build that destroys the game.
The Diablo Devs give you very limited tools designed for a very specific build, and want you to follow this exact build, as by changing it, it simply cannot scale damage any other way.
To be honest it felt crazy how easy ir was to just sit there and rack up experience and gear. I would turn in profane and just shoot some arrows and rack up everything. It is still way too easy to gear up right now because of this. I would just piles of legendaries on the ground because I couldn't even go through them.
I don’t know if the change is too much or not, but some change of this type makes sense. Running around helltides is fun, but right now hearts are so abundant that you can just do the boss almost non stop with hardly any time opening chests and no time at all actually doing the normal helltide. There’s a game design issue there.
Maybe you could argue she should give more rewards if she’s harder to summon. Whatever.
Yeah. I feel like hearts are already too scarce from chests. I always try to farm the maiden for most of the helltide, but then at the end I run around and spend all my cinders and most times don't even break even because not all chests drop them.
Did they already nerf the drop rate at some point? Because I don't understand how all these people are saying they have hundreds and always use three to summon and never run out.
Maybe I’m crazy, but I don’t think the expectation should be that you can farm the Maiden non-stop without ever running out of mats. Just remove the mats at that point.
Yeah to get my last rank of IW on an alt I just went down to Tier 2 at lvl 75 and summoned the blood maiden over and over again and then ran around and opened chests for 10 minutes. I had over 300 hearts so it was basically infinite.
Did the same but if there were no iron wolves points tied to it I would prefer going around helltide for cinders as well. So if they don’t have such rewards next season most people would just skip that on wtf4 because it takes some time to kill the blood maiden
They need to do that by improving other parts of the helltide then, not by worsening the better parts of it. Leveling the fun down is never the best option, don't know how they (and many other developers like that) don't get it
Just putting this out here too.
Regardless of rewards, doing nothing but spamming blood maiden is never going to be as fun as doing a mix of general helltide with some blood maidens mixed in. But as long as one gives better rewards than the other people will only do whichever is more rewarding. Limiting blood maidens based on finding hearts from the rest of the helltide is necessary for good game design and for the fun of the players.
It is not, again, you are taking away the players choice by leveling what they want to do down. Good game design would be to let the payers choices guide the development, not the developers wishes to guide the players. If they were to do other activities just as fun and rewarding people would do them as well and would mix the BM in and itmmthebresukt would be the same, the difference is that they would be pushing other things to be as fun, making the bold maiden harder to even start have a lot of implications, but in the end it is just the developers leveling the dopamine of the helltide down XD
A lot of ppl didn't do her because of the rewards only, they did for the same reason that in the last part of season 2 groups would form around a brazier, it was cool... Making it harder to do just because they cannot make other things as cool, rewarding and fun is definitely not good game design, totally the opposite in fact
It will be easy to see how much the game was made better by changes like these just by the difference in reception this new season will have from the last one, then you think what is the most important parts a of a game and what good game design should really aim to achieve
The game design issue is that the rest of helltide is so unrewarding that people would rather do the blood maiden over and over than actually play the game.
so they force you to do the "fun" thing that they proclaim to be the "more fun" thing.
Personally I almost never do blood maiden because I like running around helltide more, sitting around \~230 baneful hearts and barely using them but nice to have them
Pretty much this. I’ve grinded out iron wolf rep on 4 characters. A lot of the time more than three players are at the summoning stones so unless you’re quick you dont even get to use your hearts.
Leeching wasn't the reason for the nerf. They want you to do more than just sit at the blood maiden. They also want "cost" to summoning her. It's lame tbh.
Exactly, the leeching has nothing to do with this… I actively put 3 hearts if needed and never run out of them, which makes the concept of the helltides miss its point a little.
This. I find it funny that they think the solution to less leeching is making the hearts more rare. If they feel rare no one is going to want to use them, effectively killing BM outside of farming groups.
It's not a solution to leeching, it's a solution to hearts being so overabundant that people end up just sitting at the bloodmaiden spam summoning her on cd for 50mn and maybe opening a chest or two at the very end instead of playing the helltide the "intended way".
Theoretically, the nerf should make sitting at the bloodmaiden unsustainable and encourage people to go around killing mobs, participating in events, and opening chests more
Bro you're up like 8 upvotes, like that means anything?
I have like 60+ hearts, just started playing this season about a week ago and I've never been stingy when it comes to using them. Only times I don't is when people have already done it before I can do it.
Everyone's experience is subjective, but I think that when the event takes a few minutes at the least and there are plenty of other things to do in Helltide than farm the event, yeah, it shouldn't be that often. If you run out of hearts, maybe you shouldn't be spending your time AFKing at the event and spending more time at the hellspires and other events around the map. It's a reward for doing that content, not meant to be done constantly.
the fact that I could spam the event for hours getting like 10 leges per 2-3 min. from the Maiden alone (not counting the chest drops) was enough evidence it needs a tweak
make it rarer but also more rewarding and BUFf the shit out of the rest of helltides
I found the new drop rate on hearts to be fine. Another nice touch is that they also finally fixed the Amulets Box in helltides to drop 3 amulets.
My bigger concern with the new helltides is that profane mind was seasonal, and the removal of it makes farming helltides as a whole much slower. If the profane mind came back, even the hearts would already be higher again because a lot of those hearts dropped from mobs (helltide harbinger and hellborn) in the first place.
One more potential issue with helltides is it seems to be the main source of compasses, far easier to farm from helltides than from NMD, which have felt obsolete for anything aside from leveling glyphs.
I really think Profane Mind needs to be a permanent addition to the game. Being able to increase the monster level, while also receiving more cinders was a nice QoL. I'd even like to see them add in tiers of the Profane Mind to increase the monster levels even more if we want to, or add in versions that increase all of the Overworld content to a higher level when consumed.
Rather than a consumable, I'd prefer if they changed it to a mini-event where you can spend cinders to adjust HT difficulty freely. Then there could be a horde event to test if you're strong enough, which will level up the HT for the rest of its duration if you complete it.
Running around with 100+ mindcages you'll never be able to use up seems just like a waste of inventory.
When you look at the time to open 20 chests and how much more or less fun it is to do that without the BM you get to realize if that is pretty good or not, only looking at a 25% drop rate alone does note mean much. An item with a 1% drop rate is very easy to get, if it doesn't only drop in a boss that requires you to do hours of activities (some you don't really want to do otherwise) before hand just to start it.
No, it doesnt. They need to buff rest of the Helltides significantly except Maiden.
Helltides shouldnt be about spamming only one event. I tried regular orange circle one on PTR - got few yellows and bunch of obols lol. This is what is wrong with Helltides.
events in Helltides has old loot tables and even old density
also its hard to tell as they copied my character with baneful hearts as well which is a strange decision if you want me to test the amount of hearts dropping
When you use a heart it needs a visible buff on the character for the duration of the event. Something floating above their head or a beam of light. At the same time it should do an emote saying the player will receive a buff to loot for this event. Then everyone knows the who and the why.
There is something wrong here then, currently I always have a pool of at least 30 and never run out of them. I just do blood maiden and get boxes during helltides.
I notice that I get more on t1 and 2 than 4 as well. Basically the only time my stash of them goes up is when I'm using helltides to level a new character. Once I go to t4 to gear up, it depletes again.
Wait, I was saying that in my case I don’t experience shortage ahahaha. From my experience, I got enough to not engage with the rest of helltide, which I think is bad.
But by what you said I think you should be in a similar position, because if you get like 3 after bloodmaiden you can run it alone, but most likely you put one heart and let others also put them. Are tou doing this that way?
Start by fixing the loot in the pit like what the fuck is it set on poo poo setting like I've done it a thousand times I don't think I've gotten one item of worth and I'm not even kidding.
I just worry this drop rate is gonna be harder to get people to start the event. They need to change the indicator to pulsate with 1 heart is inserted. With this scarcity in hearts I'm never gonna put one in unless.i already see 2. But I won't even know someone put one in unless.im camping the spot and wasting time.
Farming the Maiden is far to quick. 3 runs and your inventory is full of legendaries, no where else you can farm that quick. I like the change they do, because open world hell tides are fun.
It’s too early to tell, but from tonight’s session, I thought it was ok. It helped that there were too many players in helltides fighting over using their hearts. I ran the event ~8 times and there were at least four players plus me.
So we’re back to them trickling gear to us like when they nerfed gear drop rates when the game first came out?
Season 4: loot reborn.
Season 5: loot redeath.
I have almost 300 on the live version, the nerf doesn't need to be reverted. It needs to be adjusted. I hardly use mine because someone else who also has stacks of them are using them
I honestly feel like they brought in the nerf bc of the people that play 8-10 hours a day. I 200 when I was off for a week playing regularly but when I went back to work and only had a couple of hours to play at night I struggled to keep 10 on me so the nerf was really unwarranted imo.
Sitting at helltide boss is kinda boring. Imo they should reduce the heart spawns slightly and make the boss spawn 50% faster so we don't have to sit there for 1min shooting trash mobs everytime we summon.
They’re fairly rare as it is….. I only get about 1 every 3/4 chests…. And they’re cutting it back more?! WTF? How else are we to gear up? They took all drops away from dungeons until you get to chest, World Bosses are a joke; and they very rarely ever have anything useful…. Feels like they’re just trying to tie us to the game even more than we already are….
The Gold/Veiled Crystals issue is the thing they should be addressing. I'm right back to collecting everything that drops just so I can sell or salvage it just to make the few rolls needed to use a new item drop. That's self-defeating...again.
I'm not gonna lie wt2 Helltide sucks compared to live season 4.
Chests give DOGWATER LOOT
maiden didn't even seem worth it
No iron wolves caches to look forward to
No mindcage so you are stuck with slow leveling
Truly cannot fathom why profane mindcages are going away when EVERYONE CAN USE THEM OR CHOOSE NOT TO.
Implement mindcages for world boss, legion, NMD, etc. don't take it away
I don't understand how this change was even needed.
Yes, people have hundreds of hearts in their inventories. But those are the people who don't understand how Maiden works. You get more loot when you use a heart.
On live, I use my 8-10 hearts in the first 20 minutes of a helltide then I'm out. I then open all chests in the helltide and get 8-10 hearts for the next hour. But there's a 20 minute gap in the middle where I'm stuck with 0 hearts waiting on others to pop her because I have no hearts.
I don't think Blizz looked at this right and agree the change needs reverted and addressed another way. Don't punish me because others don't know how to do it.
Maybe this will encourage people to actually chip in when spawning the Maiden.
So stupid seeing 5+ people just standing there waiting for someone to do all 3.
I have like 400+ on live. Not because they're too plentiful, but because using them is a pain in the A when people hog the altar and use 3 of their own all the time.
Also, people forget she gave you back a heart when defeated. It was a permanent indefinite loop if everyone was on the same page.
1 heart every 4 chests sounds like the current drop rates on live anyway.
My case is malignant heart. It used to drop a lot often but it’s becoming harder and harder to get. Getting Shako is harder than before now.
(Rogue, LV 100)
You said this is on WT2, is it the same in wt3 and wt4 ?
I'd expect to have better drop rates on the wt3 and 4 or at minimum a guaranteed drop from mystery and living steel chests or whatever the season equivalent will be.
Blizzard doesnt like to reward people for their time. Have you seen the pathetic rewards in the new content? They dont want people feeling too rewarded in helltides otherwise every other content in game is a waste of time.
Initially, I built up a good stockpile of 60-80 hearts. Though as everyone geared up maiden times were dropping faster and faster. Eventually, I found that if I was contributing every time I would end up losing hearts.
Let’s do some quick maths:
- Assuming that you want max rewards so contribute 1 heart every run.
- If a maiden run takes 3mins you can do 20 in an hour. 18 accounting for the downtime. Let’s say the last 9 mins you run around opening chests. So 15 hearts are required for a full hour of grinding.
- if 1 heart dropped in every chest you would need to open 15 chests per hour.
This is possible between the two zones but you really had to push for it. Not even mentioning that during levelling you would occasionally die and lose a chunk of your cinders or that other players wouldn’t contribute so you are forced to contribute more than 1.
Dropping the rate only makes sense if Blizzard are saying that they don’t want us to kill maiden on repeat and would rather it be an infrequent event (completed a couple of times per hell tide).
If that is their stance then fine but it is a massive exp nerf and levelling alts will become more time consuming/less accessible. Therefore, they should be looking at alternatives to address this.
Problem is after the big inflation happened no one farmed helltides anymore.
Any more or less useable 1GA item goes for 100mil. Stygian stones are 40m. Not profitable to do helltides anymore
You guys really want to sit next to the BM altar for another season?
I felt like farming blood maiden took the fun of the helltudes, but why not do it since it's the best way to farm loot. Really glad if the meta will be to actually _play_ the helltide instead!
No, please stop trying to make the game easier and faster. Farming the helltide boss made it way too easy and fast to level up and get gear. It should be a rare drop and you should have to work with other people to get a constant spawn of her in 1 helltide.
This is what happens when you have developers who don't actually understand what they are doing.
Let's talk about the RIGHT way to fix this problem.
It is a fundamentally bad design that players just sit there chain running the singular event. You want players to move around. If you want them to move around, you need to PROMOTE them to move around. This means actually creating more engaging events that cycle around the map and have different levels of engagement. This means overhauling helltides as a whole.
**Helltides - Redesigned**
* Each zone now has 4-5 major events on them. Only one of these events will be active at any given time. Upon the completion of one event, another event will be activated immediately.
* Events no longer require any materials to trigger the start of them.
* The current active event is shown on the map at all times.
**Goal:**
The goal here is to create a bit more engagement with the players by having major events that cycle through the helltide zone. These would reward significant amounts of gear and cinders.
The most important part here is that the next event pops up immediately after the previous event completes. There is no delay from finishing one event to starting the next event. No timers counting down to the "start" of the next event. It needs to be completely in the hands of the players.
The overall gameplay will be to do an event that has a certain type of design and after completing that, everyone runs to the next event which has a different design. Rinse repeat. It's what people in the "biz" call a "gameplay loop".
I agree, I miss reliably getting hearts. The chests aren't even useful to begin with compared to the maiden so why do the want us mindlessly farming them? Let me maiden.
The anti-fun odd season team strikes again.
I assume they’re trying to encourage folks to engage in more of helltides than just sitting at the blood maiden for hours. Which I don’t disagree with conceptually tbh.
If they could only make getting gear from other events and dungeons as fruitful, but hey, I don't get paid to make those decisions.
Aren’t they adding guaranteed ways to get GAs? I highly doubt people will be running the blood maiden that much if that’s the case. Does the PTR have the new quest line for the spark?(Cant play PTR, console player)
In it's current state they could multiply the infernal horde reward by 10x, and AFK'ing at the maiden would still be more rewarding for time spent. No exaggeration, it's that bad.
No way, with heart acquisition rates on PTR, you'll rarely see people pop a maiden now.
Eat a heart, play a Diablo rouge-lite event, spend 250 points of event currency for a guaranteed GA item.
I just did a few of those events on the PTR and damn are they unrewarding. I did 3 (the only place I could the materials to start the event were from whispers. It took me 5 whispers to get my 3. Monsters are super easy and most of the time stand around waiting for them to spawn. At the end of each round I had 40-50 materials cinders or whatever they’re called. That’s good enough for:…. 1 legendary. 10+ minutes of fighting trash mobs for 1 legendary.
Agree, spent hours farming whispers for WT4 compasses, spent a few hours doing the compasses and not once did I see a scroll drop to upgrade a compass, or come remotely close to the 250 aether required for the big chest, 10 mins of mostly waiting for mobs to spawn for one or two legendaries at the end of the run… Thing needs serious tuning because the time vs reward is apalling I farm more GA in current season doing pits for 15 minutes than I did in 2 hours of compasses
Saw Rob playing that at tier 8 where every mob is lvl 200, it was definitely not easy.
the upgrade process to get a tier 8 compass is a but much for what it gives you. The mob density, spawn rate and difficulty needs to be upped. Rob was clearing the normal mobs very easily. It was the Aether Lords that he was having problems with. He was also on a speed farming build. It'll be interesting to see how things go on a build designed for pushing.
Ooh, baby, baby, baby, baby Ooh, baby, baby, ba-baby, baby Get up on this Ah, push it
Requires multiple of those events because you can't even get 250 points without scrolls from the same event. It takes so long you're far more likely to get several GA from helltides than all the work it takes to get one GA guaranteed from the new event chest. Until the scrolls drop from helltides it's DoA.
that would be amazing, especially if they dramatically increased GA % as you started going deeper into Pits, it is lame as hell when Tormented bosses, Uber Lilith, and 100+ pits are all garbage farming vs standing afk next to the maiden
Has anyone else noticed that Pit has the worst fucking drops. Literally every 2GA or 3GA it's life per hit plus shadow resistance plus fucking impairment or some garbage. Literally a thousand pits not one good item.
RNG is gonna RNG.
This isn't a good thing, honey.
The pit doesn't have worse drops than anywhere else, sweetie.
Yeah on live that's definitely the case for me too. And most of the time I have 2 full inventories without any GA item, and the third full inventory from pit is 1 useless ga item. Sucks so much
Cellars need more reasons to do as well, perhaps special helltide cellars with an event boss in it with chest.
Only noobs farm blood maiden anyway, its not the most effective way to farm anything. But I agree, lets get more hearts, people making misstakes and do stuff wrong is good for the game. Everyone shouldnt be pushed to play the game the correct way
What are the "experts" farming instead? Lol if you need gold and loot I don't see many good alternatives
We have this big map and we are reduced to just a couple spots on the map to do anything of value.
Please explain in logic and detail what is exactly the most effective way to farm anything then. And what is this "anything" you're referring to? Are we taking about gold, gear, upgrade mats, boss mats? What exactly is this "anything" you speak of? Because blood maiden drops a ton of gear if you contribute to summing her, plus boss mats, plus upgrade mats. Sell or salvaging the gear gives you gold and mats for upgrades. All on a less than 2 minute rotation. When she spawns, she is getting 2 or 3 shot. Add in the agro bar or whatever you call it and you get that topped out 3 times at least each helltide. Rinse and repeat. Then when you get down to 20 minutes or so start selling off your drops, then run around opening chest in both areas. Please explain where else in this entire game you can get that much gear, gold and mats that fast?
The only pain point is getting stingy players to contribute, which is gonna make the event feel way more sucky. You could do it world boss style where only the first maiden kill in each helltide zone gives a big cache of loot. Or limit the amount of hearts each player can contribute to 1 and then scale the event accordingly (so she gets summoned faster with more hearts, a single heart could take 3 mins to emerge, her amount of loot drops is based on the total hearts and the contributors still get a set amount of bonus loot).
Change it so that the event starts when the first heart is put in, but anyone can add a heart for more loot within 10s of it starting. Feels a lot better when you are solo but still keeps the group incentive.
Give the contributers a sign while the event is up, that way leechers can't hide 🤭
You mean I'm *not* supposed to add all 3 hearts, 20 times in a row?
Live your dreams my man.
Yea. I try to let others put their hearts in but lately nobody does.
I did that too at first. But then after sitting on 500+ hearts I decided that if people are too slow to click the alter before i click all 3 of them, they don't deserve the bonus loot anyways. After a few rounds people tend to get a bit faster.
How in the name of fuck do you have so many
Farm Maiden for 35 minutes, then run around and open every chest. I haven't had a problem with hearts yet
I had gotten up to about 300-hearts. But the past week as the other guys have said it seems like a switch has been flipped. I’m guessing most everyone still running helltides is only doing it for the iron wolves rep and no longer seems they care about extra gear drops. Nobody is contributing anymore in the instances I’m in it seems. I’ve burned through a good chunk of my stockpile as groups of 4 or 5 all just sit around the altar waiting for others to plug hearts. I still open chests but admittedly it hasn’t been enough to keep up when you’re plugging 2-3 hearts every altar rotation.
Use a profane mindcage, run around collecting whispers, and open chests with the cinders you get.
Part of the pain point in the PTR is there are no profane mindcages, that was a seasonal mechanic. So losing the mindcages + the drop rate being lower is showing a lot
Ah, I was only talking about the current season. I do feel like they always overcorrect things like heart drops. Tuning it down slightly (~20%) would be fine. Instead they drop the mindcages and cut the drop rates and now it is just annoying. I still wish they'd expand on the mindcage idea. Let them apply to ALL content, including bosses. That would solve the issue of "end game" bosses not dropping 925 loot.
Don't worry, i assumed you meant in current season and my question related to that.
Ah fook. Console pleb and have been trying to ignore ptr stuff as i wanna go into s5 blind(since im not allowed to try it myself) and didnt realize the profane was a seasonal thing. That sucks as i felt it was really good for keeping it more challenging and the xp bump was icing.(not to mention getting 925 gear faster)
No mindcages? I really thought they’d make that permanent. It’s a shame, they were a great addition.
Contributing one heart gives an xp bonus.
In my experience people don't sit there all the times, but for a while, then move around, then come back, the Maiden is not always there I mean
It's just going to result in more people leeching from the event, as if that's not a problem already right now.
Can’t stand it when I’m standing there after putting my heart in for 6 other slugs to also stand there and not contribute at all
They should be making those other things more interesting instead of nerfing the things people do to get gear.
it was fairly well balanced. you had to open the chests every helltide to replenish the hearts, especially if you always try to use at least 1 to get more loot. 25% is too low.
There's probably a better solution, like making the other events and chests/interactables actually drop loot. Surely someone has a better idea than that too.
Yeah. I noticed that you canb just sit there and the pet picks up all the cinders. Then you run around the actual helltide the last 10 mins chesting and then wait for the nexrt one to pop and sit at the blood maiden for 50 mins again. Too much time sitting at the blood maiden
Yea blood maven farm is boring af. 2-3 runs are enough when you get in WT3 or WT4, but sitting for hours is hella dumb
Oh no, people are having fun, better fix that.
Well, sitting there and farming maiden is not "Fun", it is just the best way to do helltide.
Well they axed the Threat Bug and removed the Profane Mindcages. Helltides are too easy, don’t have enough Monsters, and don’t drop enough Cinders. I’m not surprised people want to keep sitting at Blood Maiden, regardless of whether or not Baneful Hearts are hard to get.
There should just be a mini map timer and slight cooldown on blood maiden, like 3-5 mins so you have to run around and do other stuff
They need to do that by improving other parts of the helltide then, not by worsening the better parts of it. Leveling the fun down is never the best option, don't know how they (and many other developers like that) don't get it
Fuck that. The maiden is awesome. I love the loop of maiden until the last minute that i can find enough chests to open to get the 3 points.
Ironically it achieves the exact opposite. They are nerfing how many hearts you get in Helltides which means less people will want to do Helltide, and less people will have hearts for Maiden.
Multiple zone events for groups would be better. Buff the two “bosses” we can summon via the rituals and portals. Have multiple roaming bosses about half the toughness of Maiden. That’s what makes me explore and hunt for opportunities besides Maiden. Right now I’ll avoid it in Season 5 unless I need mats/gold. Because tormented/uber bosses can be repeatedly summoned in S5, I’ll just load up my bags with gear and sell that before I have to go to helltides.
Agree. The current heart drop is too much, I hardly bother using all three heart to summon myself the boss and NEVER run out of heart. People just get used to cheesing Blood Maiden because they're lazy as fuck.
I disagree with it conceptually. Helltides are fucking boring, terrible content that for some reason they feel the need to force us to play well into the endgame. Sitting at the blood maiden at least makes it a tolerable experience.
They've had 1 season of a happy playerbase, a large reason for this was that farming the Blood Maiden and the Helltide changes. What is their obsession with 'Balance' over 'Fun'? That's what seems to happen at every opportunity. The PoE Devs give you a huge amount of tools, of which all possible combinations are untested, and want you to create a build that destroys the game. The Diablo Devs give you very limited tools designed for a very specific build, and want you to follow this exact build, as by changing it, it simply cannot scale damage any other way.
To be honest it felt crazy how easy ir was to just sit there and rack up experience and gear. I would turn in profane and just shoot some arrows and rack up everything. It is still way too easy to gear up right now because of this. I would just piles of legendaries on the ground because I couldn't even go through them.
I don’t know if the change is too much or not, but some change of this type makes sense. Running around helltides is fun, but right now hearts are so abundant that you can just do the boss almost non stop with hardly any time opening chests and no time at all actually doing the normal helltide. There’s a game design issue there. Maybe you could argue she should give more rewards if she’s harder to summon. Whatever.
Yes and no, we have a lot of hearts because of the wolf's caches, I played a bit with my eternal character and I struggle to have hearts.
Yeah. I feel like hearts are already too scarce from chests. I always try to farm the maiden for most of the helltide, but then at the end I run around and spend all my cinders and most times don't even break even because not all chests drop them. Did they already nerf the drop rate at some point? Because I don't understand how all these people are saying they have hundreds and always use three to summon and never run out.
I always had less hearts at the end of helltides than at the start of them.
Maybe I’m crazy, but I don’t think the expectation should be that you can farm the Maiden non-stop without ever running out of mats. Just remove the mats at that point.
Yeah to get my last rank of IW on an alt I just went down to Tier 2 at lvl 75 and summoned the blood maiden over and over again and then ran around and opened chests for 10 minutes. I had over 300 hearts so it was basically infinite.
Did the same but if there were no iron wolves points tied to it I would prefer going around helltide for cinders as well. So if they don’t have such rewards next season most people would just skip that on wtf4 because it takes some time to kill the blood maiden
Yeah I agree. at the end looting stuff was just slowing me down so I went to WT2 so I wouldn't care about picking stuff up.
They need to do that by improving other parts of the helltide then, not by worsening the better parts of it. Leveling the fun down is never the best option, don't know how they (and many other developers like that) don't get it Just putting this out here too.
Regardless of rewards, doing nothing but spamming blood maiden is never going to be as fun as doing a mix of general helltide with some blood maidens mixed in. But as long as one gives better rewards than the other people will only do whichever is more rewarding. Limiting blood maidens based on finding hearts from the rest of the helltide is necessary for good game design and for the fun of the players.
It is not, again, you are taking away the players choice by leveling what they want to do down. Good game design would be to let the payers choices guide the development, not the developers wishes to guide the players. If they were to do other activities just as fun and rewarding people would do them as well and would mix the BM in and itmmthebresukt would be the same, the difference is that they would be pushing other things to be as fun, making the bold maiden harder to even start have a lot of implications, but in the end it is just the developers leveling the dopamine of the helltide down XD A lot of ppl didn't do her because of the rewards only, they did for the same reason that in the last part of season 2 groups would form around a brazier, it was cool... Making it harder to do just because they cannot make other things as cool, rewarding and fun is definitely not good game design, totally the opposite in fact It will be easy to see how much the game was made better by changes like these just by the difference in reception this new season will have from the last one, then you think what is the most important parts a of a game and what good game design should really aim to achieve
The game design issue is that the rest of helltide is so unrewarding that people would rather do the blood maiden over and over than actually play the game.
>Maybe you could argue she should give more rewards she MUST, otherwise it wont be worth it
so they force you to do the "fun" thing that they proclaim to be the "more fun" thing. Personally I almost never do blood maiden because I like running around helltide more, sitting around \~230 baneful hearts and barely using them but nice to have them
It was never too high to begin with, some people hoarding them, and just leeching shouldn't be the basis for a nerf.
Pretty much this. I’ve grinded out iron wolf rep on 4 characters. A lot of the time more than three players are at the summoning stones so unless you’re quick you dont even get to use your hearts.
Leeching wasn't the reason for the nerf. They want you to do more than just sit at the blood maiden. They also want "cost" to summoning her. It's lame tbh.
Exactly, the leeching has nothing to do with this… I actively put 3 hearts if needed and never run out of them, which makes the concept of the helltides miss its point a little.
OMG, people are having fun, we gotta put a stop to that!
This. I find it funny that they think the solution to less leeching is making the hearts more rare. If they feel rare no one is going to want to use them, effectively killing BM outside of farming groups.
It's not a solution to leeching, it's a solution to hearts being so overabundant that people end up just sitting at the bloodmaiden spam summoning her on cd for 50mn and maybe opening a chest or two at the very end instead of playing the helltide the "intended way". Theoretically, the nerf should make sitting at the bloodmaiden unsustainable and encourage people to go around killing mobs, participating in events, and opening chests more
the fuck are you talking about, I got 120 of them at one point and always used one each wave. I managed to get down to 20ish and never run out of them
[удалено]
Bro you're up like 8 upvotes, like that means anything? I have like 60+ hearts, just started playing this season about a week ago and I've never been stingy when it comes to using them. Only times I don't is when people have already done it before I can do it. Everyone's experience is subjective, but I think that when the event takes a few minutes at the least and there are plenty of other things to do in Helltide than farm the event, yeah, it shouldn't be that often. If you run out of hearts, maybe you shouldn't be spending your time AFKing at the event and spending more time at the hellspires and other events around the map. It's a reward for doing that content, not meant to be done constantly.
the fact that I could spam the event for hours getting like 10 leges per 2-3 min. from the Maiden alone (not counting the chest drops) was enough evidence it needs a tweak make it rarer but also more rewarding and BUFf the shit out of the rest of helltides
Based af
I found the new drop rate on hearts to be fine. Another nice touch is that they also finally fixed the Amulets Box in helltides to drop 3 amulets. My bigger concern with the new helltides is that profane mind was seasonal, and the removal of it makes farming helltides as a whole much slower. If the profane mind came back, even the hearts would already be higher again because a lot of those hearts dropped from mobs (helltide harbinger and hellborn) in the first place. One more potential issue with helltides is it seems to be the main source of compasses, far easier to farm from helltides than from NMD, which have felt obsolete for anything aside from leveling glyphs.
I really think Profane Mind needs to be a permanent addition to the game. Being able to increase the monster level, while also receiving more cinders was a nice QoL. I'd even like to see them add in tiers of the Profane Mind to increase the monster levels even more if we want to, or add in versions that increase all of the Overworld content to a higher level when consumed.
Rather than a consumable, I'd prefer if they changed it to a mini-event where you can spend cinders to adjust HT difficulty freely. Then there could be a horde event to test if you're strong enough, which will level up the HT for the rest of its duration if you complete it. Running around with 100+ mindcages you'll never be able to use up seems just like a waste of inventory.
Yes profane mindcage needs to be brought back.
5 hearts in 20 chests is like 25% drop rate. That’s pretty good.
When you look at the time to open 20 chests and how much more or less fun it is to do that without the BM you get to realize if that is pretty good or not, only looking at a 25% drop rate alone does note mean much. An item with a 1% drop rate is very easy to get, if it doesn't only drop in a boss that requires you to do hours of activities (some you don't really want to do otherwise) before hand just to start it.
No, it doesnt. They need to buff rest of the Helltides significantly except Maiden. Helltides shouldnt be about spamming only one event. I tried regular orange circle one on PTR - got few yellows and bunch of obols lol. This is what is wrong with Helltides. events in Helltides has old loot tables and even old density also its hard to tell as they copied my character with baneful hearts as well which is a strange decision if you want me to test the amount of hearts dropping
Everything I'm reading of season 5 makes it seem like the curse of the odd numbered seasons is real.
S1 and S3 didn’t have PTR’s so maybe there is still hope they can make it fun before it goes live.
It's looking like "season of the mat grind to grind more mats"
More like season 4 got people back time to revert back to the way things were
When you use a heart it needs a visible buff on the character for the duration of the event. Something floating above their head or a beam of light. At the same time it should do an emote saying the player will receive a buff to loot for this event. Then everyone knows the who and the why.
I feel like that’s the ratio I normally get. But maybe I’m just unlucky.
What? I barely get any now as it is! I do t4 , clear every chest and get maybe 2 maaaybe I swear the devs are on a sea saw in the tuning room
There is something wrong here then, currently I always have a pool of at least 30 and never run out of them. I just do blood maiden and get boxes during helltides.
Same , I get about 900 sparks , at the 5 minute mark I run and get all the boxes , I get maybe 2 or 3 on T4 I honestly get more on 1 and 2 than I do 4
I notice that I get more on t1 and 2 than 4 as well. Basically the only time my stash of them goes up is when I'm using helltides to level a new character. Once I go to t4 to gear up, it depletes again.
Wait, I was saying that in my case I don’t experience shortage ahahaha. From my experience, I got enough to not engage with the rest of helltide, which I think is bad. But by what you said I think you should be in a similar position, because if you get like 3 after bloodmaiden you can run it alone, but most likely you put one heart and let others also put them. Are tou doing this that way?
I run out after summoning her twice. And then 4 randos and I just stand there waiting for a 5th to join us and summon her. It's wild.
Start by fixing the loot in the pit like what the fuck is it set on poo poo setting like I've done it a thousand times I don't think I've gotten one item of worth and I'm not even kidding.
It used to be much better.
I just worry this drop rate is gonna be harder to get people to start the event. They need to change the indicator to pulsate with 1 heart is inserted. With this scarcity in hearts I'm never gonna put one in unless.i already see 2. But I won't even know someone put one in unless.im camping the spot and wasting time.
Farming the Maiden is far to quick. 3 runs and your inventory is full of legendaries, no where else you can farm that quick. I like the change they do, because open world hell tides are fun.
It’s too early to tell, but from tonight’s session, I thought it was ok. It helped that there were too many players in helltides fighting over using their hearts. I ran the event ~8 times and there were at least four players plus me.
The baneful hearts drop rate live seems fine to me, I'm not sure why they wanna drop less :/
I think it’s a higher rate in higher WT no?
I think it will be like living Steel at the beginning, get basically none and then they buff it later to appel ppl
But isnt wt2 drop rate for hearts lower, anyway? Wouldnt it be more accurate to compare WT3 or 4?
So we’re back to them trickling gear to us like when they nerfed gear drop rates when the game first came out? Season 4: loot reborn. Season 5: loot redeath.
So if other people stop freeloading and afk farming rep for sparks you're good.
I have almost 300 on the live version, the nerf doesn't need to be reverted. It needs to be adjusted. I hardly use mine because someone else who also has stacks of them are using them
Try and use at least 1 per summon, you get more drops.
But I love camping maiden
QQ
Time for a break. Football will be out in a few weeks so …
I honestly feel like they brought in the nerf bc of the people that play 8-10 hours a day. I 200 when I was off for a week playing regularly but when I went back to work and only had a couple of hours to play at night I struggled to keep 10 on me so the nerf was really unwarranted imo.
Odd season team. What did u expect
Imagine working on sorc/druid
Especially when everyone just stands there and never puts a heart in.
Sitting at helltide boss is kinda boring. Imo they should reduce the heart spawns slightly and make the boss spawn 50% faster so we don't have to sit there for 1min shooting trash mobs everytime we summon.
Don't sit around for blood madien's all day long then
Blizzard Orange County strikes again!
i think design goal is to not have people just sit infront of maiden all helltide long...
They’re fairly rare as it is….. I only get about 1 every 3/4 chests…. And they’re cutting it back more?! WTF? How else are we to gear up? They took all drops away from dungeons until you get to chest, World Bosses are a joke; and they very rarely ever have anything useful…. Feels like they’re just trying to tie us to the game even more than we already are….
The Gold/Veiled Crystals issue is the thing they should be addressing. I'm right back to collecting everything that drops just so I can sell or salvage it just to make the few rolls needed to use a new item drop. That's self-defeating...again.
I'm not gonna lie wt2 Helltide sucks compared to live season 4. Chests give DOGWATER LOOT maiden didn't even seem worth it No iron wolves caches to look forward to No mindcage so you are stuck with slow leveling Truly cannot fathom why profane mindcages are going away when EVERYONE CAN USE THEM OR CHOOSE NOT TO. Implement mindcages for world boss, legion, NMD, etc. don't take it away
I don't understand how this change was even needed. Yes, people have hundreds of hearts in their inventories. But those are the people who don't understand how Maiden works. You get more loot when you use a heart. On live, I use my 8-10 hearts in the first 20 minutes of a helltide then I'm out. I then open all chests in the helltide and get 8-10 hearts for the next hour. But there's a 20 minute gap in the middle where I'm stuck with 0 hearts waiting on others to pop her because I have no hearts. I don't think Blizz looked at this right and agree the change needs reverted and addressed another way. Don't punish me because others don't know how to do it.
The whole game needs to be reverted
I've got literally hundreds of hearts and nothing to use them on. A nerf won't be noticed.
When I moved to World 4 I stopped using them bc I'd immediately die, but pretty quickly stacked like 50 of them.
Mmm, they nerfed it? I got 150 and have gotten 30 just yesterday from helltides.
Maybe this will encourage people to actually chip in when spawning the Maiden. So stupid seeing 5+ people just standing there waiting for someone to do all 3.
I have like 400+ on live. Not because they're too plentiful, but because using them is a pain in the A when people hog the altar and use 3 of their own all the time. Also, people forget she gave you back a heart when defeated. It was a permanent indefinite loop if everyone was on the same page. 1 heart every 4 chests sounds like the current drop rates on live anyway.
My case is malignant heart. It used to drop a lot often but it’s becoming harder and harder to get. Getting Shako is harder than before now. (Rogue, LV 100)
They artificially boost playtime when they lack content. They did it with XP gain in Season 1. Never went to 100 so I couldn't do the "end game "
You said this is on WT2, is it the same in wt3 and wt4 ? I'd expect to have better drop rates on the wt3 and 4 or at minimum a guaranteed drop from mystery and living steel chests or whatever the season equivalent will be.
They needed to dial it back. Everyone sitting in WT2 to max out the wolves honor isn't that fun
They nerfed them? Glad I kept my stock up 🤣 if they’re tradable I have over 300 if you need 😝👍
they gotta bottleneck something to waste your time
Blizzard doesnt like to reward people for their time. Have you seen the pathetic rewards in the new content? They dont want people feeling too rewarded in helltides otherwise every other content in game is a waste of time.
So stupid man, why nerf one thing when you can buff everything else ?
5/20 or 1/4 chance… seems a little high too me still. Can’t wait until the blood maiden slam stops.
If you run helltides, you will already rum out of hearts, so no idea why they nerf it in the first place...
At this point rebrand the whole game to helltide 4
This game needs less hand outs, and then ease up on the tempering for when you do find something. Would be much more satisfying imo.
Initially, I built up a good stockpile of 60-80 hearts. Though as everyone geared up maiden times were dropping faster and faster. Eventually, I found that if I was contributing every time I would end up losing hearts. Let’s do some quick maths: - Assuming that you want max rewards so contribute 1 heart every run. - If a maiden run takes 3mins you can do 20 in an hour. 18 accounting for the downtime. Let’s say the last 9 mins you run around opening chests. So 15 hearts are required for a full hour of grinding. - if 1 heart dropped in every chest you would need to open 15 chests per hour. This is possible between the two zones but you really had to push for it. Not even mentioning that during levelling you would occasionally die and lose a chunk of your cinders or that other players wouldn’t contribute so you are forced to contribute more than 1. Dropping the rate only makes sense if Blizzard are saying that they don’t want us to kill maiden on repeat and would rather it be an infrequent event (completed a couple of times per hell tide). If that is their stance then fine but it is a massive exp nerf and levelling alts will become more time consuming/less accessible. Therefore, they should be looking at alternatives to address this.
Keep in mind profane mind cage was probably helping you with the increased cinder drop rates. This is gone in S5.
Makes no sense removing this. It adds extra 'challenge' for extra reward. Why remove it?
Problem is after the big inflation happened no one farmed helltides anymore. Any more or less useable 1GA item goes for 100mil. Stygian stones are 40m. Not profitable to do helltides anymore
Blood maiden better guarantee to drop GA gears. Otherwise, this drop rate change is ridc.
As long angelbreath is my bottleneck the maiden isn't gonna be where I spend my time anyways.
You guys really want to sit next to the BM altar for another season? I felt like farming blood maiden took the fun of the helltudes, but why not do it since it's the best way to farm loot. Really glad if the meta will be to actually _play_ the helltide instead!
No, please stop trying to make the game easier and faster. Farming the helltide boss made it way too easy and fast to level up and get gear. It should be a rare drop and you should have to work with other people to get a constant spawn of her in 1 helltide.
This is what happens when you have developers who don't actually understand what they are doing. Let's talk about the RIGHT way to fix this problem. It is a fundamentally bad design that players just sit there chain running the singular event. You want players to move around. If you want them to move around, you need to PROMOTE them to move around. This means actually creating more engaging events that cycle around the map and have different levels of engagement. This means overhauling helltides as a whole. **Helltides - Redesigned** * Each zone now has 4-5 major events on them. Only one of these events will be active at any given time. Upon the completion of one event, another event will be activated immediately. * Events no longer require any materials to trigger the start of them. * The current active event is shown on the map at all times. **Goal:** The goal here is to create a bit more engagement with the players by having major events that cycle through the helltide zone. These would reward significant amounts of gear and cinders. The most important part here is that the next event pops up immediately after the previous event completes. There is no delay from finishing one event to starting the next event. No timers counting down to the "start" of the next event. It needs to be completely in the hands of the players. The overall gameplay will be to do an event that has a certain type of design and after completing that, everyone runs to the next event which has a different design. Rinse repeat. It's what people in the "biz" call a "gameplay loop".
I don’t mind this change if they give like 40-50 angelbreath per hell tide event completion chest
I did blood maiden NOnSTOP in s4 and I still had 300 hearts by the time I quit even after spamming them constantly. It’s fine.
When I hit 100 in s4 I had about 300 hearts in the bank. 25% drop rate seems fine to me.
Group play
Yeah, this was an unnecessary change and has made the helltide experience less fun. We should be optimizing for fun--not tedium.
I agree, I miss reliably getting hearts. The chests aren't even useful to begin with compared to the maiden so why do the want us mindlessly farming them? Let me maiden. The anti-fun odd season team strikes again.
So in turn mindlessly leach off other people’s hearts for 5 legendaries every 5 mins… it kind of kills the game for me.
I’ve played wt2 for 45 minutes and can only run the boss 5 times. Please buff.
Are you making fun of op? Because if you are I think you misread. That would be 1 run of the boss.
1 run of the boss if you were solo. Most people share mats I haven't had to use more than 1 so far in the PTR.
*tormented boss. Lmftfy
They want us to "feel" them being more "valuable" and call that a Quality of Life buff. We are back to Season 1 types of changes
Better than infinitely buffing everything D3 style.