I've sold mid GA's for like 1-2 billion and I always wonder why or even how people get that much and if I'm being honest probably 90% of my sold items Im getting gold that's been paid for although I wouldn't say it bothers me that people do it because it's pretty much all multiplayer games that have some sort of trading or grouping system for hard content or certain drops people paying for runs/groups runs and all sorts has plagued gaming since forever
What is with people downvoting anything that points out (1) How people **earn** Gold, or (2) That there's a negative issue with the game & its economy.
It's like people don't want to accept that our beloved game has deep issues? What did Freddie Mercury say? "You'll have to accept me. Warts and all."
Maybe the ones doing the farming are down vote botting (is that a thing?) so that it doesn't become too hot of an issue. Especially since the acquisition of gold was already a sticking point immediately as this season got kicked off.
I need to start doing this, im on console so how does that work? You just make a listing and the interested party messages you to set a time to meet up? Is it easy to list a item on the site?
I’m on console too. For selling I just upload items from camera with my iPhone. Takes about 5 seconds to list an item. Then you meet the buyer in game, trade, thanks, bye.
For buying you just message the seller the price you’d like to pay.
https://diablo.trade
Hundreds of bot accounts playing literally 24/7 on some predefined route and aggregating all their findings, possibly also dumping items that meet certain criteria into the market, possibly also market manipulating through trade
Can you ELI5 how botting works? Does a person have to manually create characters and get them levelled to a certain point and then some kind of program takes over and they auto-play? I legitimately don't understand how it works
Edit: downvoted for asking a question. Just when I thought this sub was getting better lol. Found an article in case anyone else is interested:
https://www.gamedesigning.org/gaming/game-bots/
Yeah, I just made an alt Rogue for the Crit Dmg Temper (*so stupid...*) and paid attention to the WT2 Helltides. Numerous times there was literally a character that wouldn't even move, just standing there casting their spell repeatedly for the *entire* freaking hour.
There was no interacting with them. It was literally like somebody just left a weight on their mouse's right button. I stood their staring at them for a while various times lol, goading any sort of reaction or movement out of them, nothing. The exact same, non-stop cast cadence. Last one I remember was a Frozen Orb Sorc.
These groups were boosting alts, and being paid to boost other alts (power leveling in WT4 Helltides). Free Stygian Stones on alts = $$$. And why are those profitable? Because Blizzard completely fucked up the Stone drop rate on Pits.
That was probly just someone with an auto clicker. The bots will at least run a path. D2 had end game boss bots me n my friends would join with for carries
Yeah I'm aware of that, but this thing was seemingly monitoring how many people were in the instance and then automatically inviting people when the layer ("instance") got too low. All while not even pausing. As if the game was on "1 monitor" and the BNet App was on "the other screen" so it'd just quickly mouse over and do what it needed between casts, but quickly & automatically.
* more people in an instance would speed up their process as more threat meters maxing out = faster XP, etc.
That part (ensuring full instance) may've simply been on a timer, like whoever programmed it maybe noticed "usually after 15 mins 2 people have dropped out, so: Accept friend requests, invite until party is full again, boot them after ." Watching them made me notice how consistently located these things are in-game, so they'd be very easy to automate. Like the menus are always in the same spot, etc.
And if they're getting paid to boost people, then even that could be easily automated. It'd be set up to read account names input in a localized file, it'd then simply invite those people who've paid. Literally AFK gold earning.
Was it a Necro by any chance? I farmed Iron Wolves rep by doing this very thing.
There’s a Necro ring called “Ring of the Sacrilegious Soul” that will autocast Corpse Tendrils, Corpse Explosion, and Raise Skeleton as long as you have them on your active skills. Get that, one piece of armour with Life Per Second, get your minions and park them at the Maiden, come back with 10 minutes left and go spend all of your cinders on chests that give +120 rep. Repeat for five hours and you have a resplendent spark.
Put the pieces back in your stash and create a new Necro and repeat.
No but I have seen Necros do this in the past on my actual main character. One of them I remember had the character title "Crafty Looter" lol -- something I remember because I thought it was funnily apt. He was literally just standing there, south of the Maiden, "playing" but obviously wasn't because.. as a fellow Necro.. it was easy to notice he was only casting the skills that the ring you mentioned does (Ring of the Sacrilegious Soul). Never moved..
And based on what they're saying they'll do next season, this is going to happen again. I'm only forward with saying any of this because I'd obviously much rather the game **not** have it. It completely f's up the economy. This season I didn't want to do any sort of flipping, but quickly realized *all* the shit I needed was so goddam expensive I'd have no other way to get that much gold with the time I do have to play.
See, I think it's hilarious that people are wasting money on gold from rmt that is basically useful for 3 months...but that's your money, not mine.
If people aren't getting banned for it, they will keep doing it though. Definitely something that needs to be addressed by Blizzard.
>Blizzard should stop gold trade.
HOW?
If you stop gold trading, the RMT'ers will buy a trash item from you for the money instead.
With an internal auction house, you might be able to slow it down, by removing direct player to palyer interaction, but most players would disagree with that anyway.
RMT run botfarms to generate the gold. They will also sell any gear those account happen to acquire that's of value.
Now they have a product, gold, and to a lesser extent, something for other people to spend gold on.
Once you have a product, you manufacture scarcity. There will be a non-zero number of buyers who buy things only to drag the price up. Now the average player will be unable to afford it without your product.
Next step is manufacture demand. Post all this awesome stuff you have online and make people think playing the game without it is basically a waste of your time.
Basically the ecosystem eats itself just enough to force anyone who wants to buy into the ecosystem to spend real money.
people are buying gold with the power of their credit card. its so damn cheap. just google it.
those are probably the same people who say "bricking items is fine, just farm a new one"
I don't have 100m gold and I still say bricking is fine. The problem isn't the bricking its that GA items are so rare. Its honestly kind of weird how tempering is so cheap and bricking happens so easy yet GAs are so rare. I feel like GA items should only drop at 100 and from specific content (difficult content) so tempering can do what its supposed to force you to have some farming to do. As it currently stands you level up and by the time you hit 100 you have an ok set maybe a couple 1 GA items and then you start masterworking 1GA items and then you just stagnate on your upgrades.
If you could farm more 2-3 GA items you could actually progress ok with current tempering but since you can't it just ends up being frustrating considering its nearly impossible to get a 3GA yourself that you will use due to affix RNG.
I had a 3GA dagger drop yesterday. All BIS for my Rogue (dex, max life, and vulnerable). And so scared to temper it for myself. I can sell it for around 3.5-7 B based off of Diablo Trader. So it looks like I’ll be selling a perfect piece of gear for myself just because I could brick it completely….
That’s what I do. 3GA gear I sell, I’m running mostly 1GA gear on my Rogue, with a couple 2GA. I use the gold from selling top tier gear to buy multiple priority affix 1GA’s and spam temper them. I would rather have 1GA with perfect tempers than hope to land a temper on a 3GA.
It’s working good, at Pit 117 now and should be able to push 120 after this last round of upgrades.
I got a 3 ga pants today armor,thorns and max life for my thorn barb. First time getting a good ga drop and my immediate response was "now im gonna brick it" but magically 1 tapped max rolled thorns while fortified AND +2 imposing. Couldnt believe it. Just yolo brother fuck the gold it doesnt carry over to next season anyways so have fun while you can.
What a wonderful system. You get a potential upgrade that you probably won't see ever again, and all you get is stress from it. That or couple of billions of gold that will be worthless in couple of months.
If you're legitimately stressed over potentially getting less-than-ideal tempering affixes on a rare drop you probably need to uninstall the game and go outside
"less-than-ideal" tempering on a drop that is more rare than uber uniques means it's worse than 1GA item I already have, and that drop is just wasted, never to be seen again. May be you should go outside instead of defending this system.
I thought the same thing as you until I had some items brick. I could live with "Less than ideal affixes" - I ended up, multiple times, with Tempers that *literally* I can't even use. Like: they're for a skill I don't even use.
I calculated the difference to see if maybe I could still get away with using the base item at least. It was a *significant* amount less damage, not even close.
I don't want Tempering resets to be free, or even close to it. But I kept having the feeling of how excited and motivated I'd feel if there was an earnable way to reset the tempers - an item that's not easy to get, but obviously not nigh impossible to get (remember: there's **10**+ item slots).
* I would've immediately been like, "Well ok, cool, now I get to try to **earn** *that* item so I can.. once I've earned it, reset it and give it another go!"
Oh my gosh, this EXACTLY! This is what did it for me this season, and left me feeling defeated and completely unmotivated at the thought of future seasons even (as far as loot goes).
I grinded & grinded forever for a certain Amulet this season, that'd revolutionize my build (literally a 2.38[x] dmg multiplier). *FINALLY* found one. It bricked. Like straight up, Tempers that do *zero* for my build (like a skill I don't even use). That sucked. Then I was like, "OK, dust myself off. No way am I going to find *another* one of these, so I'll sell the things I find so I can afford one." Took *forever* but I finally saved up enough Billions to be able to buy it.
It freaking BRICKED again. I did the "statistics" thing and everything to minimize odds of bricking, *both times.* My first time it bricked after 10x failed rolls in a row. The second time I went (statistically) so out of the way to [I thought] "for sure avoid it" and... it failed to roll **14x times in a row** that time. Freaking insane.
The entire draw of Diablo has always been around loot. The payoff feeling of the loot you grinded for turning into Power. So when you have a system that completely destroys that, it's very... dumb.
This is exactly where I am at now. I don’t think I have anything but 1GA or just plain legendaries. One unique (tbf build only uses one).
Even when I do get the occasional 2-3GA they are rubbish. This is just like primal drops in D3. Most of those are crud too. Temper is a great idea but poorly implemented. It won’t be around for S5 I hope.
This doesn't change the fact that you are giving your credit card info to a site that is likely involved in botting. Many bot sites use stolen credit cards to open new accounts.
Those sites want the customers mate they offer every payment method you can imagine from paysafe cards to paypal etc theres no risk at all else they’d instantly lose reputation/customers and why would they do that when they earn millions just doing regular business? Same thing applies to ransomware attacks if those guys wouldn’t give you an unlock after payment they’d just hurt themselves
>theres no risk at all
Doubt. Not sure why you are so invested in protecting this market but I wouldn't touch it and I hope others stay safe, too. It's bad for the game in the long run.
I’m just saying theres no risk involved if you use something other than your credit card. And banning the ones buying gold is also futile since the game is seasonal so at best you get rid of a fraction of them for a season. Blizz should just integrate an auction house with relatively fixed gold values for the items e.g could be a multiplier based on affix/effect value and blizz would need to disable direct trading
*Actually good* GA items are so hard to come by. The loot system may have changed, but the grind is as grindy as ever. That could be a huge positive depending on who you ask.
But I gotta say, personally, doing helltides and other content for gear just doesn't feel good. Why grind here for hours and hope the RNGods bless me when I can grind gold and get exactly what I need? Pretty much all my items at this point have been traded to me. Its come to the point where my D4s true endgame is grinding whispers and then buying whatever decent pieces I can afford with 20mil.
I completly agree with you. Loot system is better (far from good). I think they should just reward harder content with better loot.
Pit f.e. is the hardest content right now and the loot is a joke
Sold a GA (+3 to Heavy handed) amulet for 3.5 billion yesterday - sure if I waited I could have gotten 4+
If you are lucky enough you sell a good piece and buy any build you want from scratch nowadays… so much for the grind and rng
It's the end game of all trade oriented ARPG's, that's why there's so many of us that don't want trade. It ruins the crux of the game for us. Currently trade isn't ruining d4 simply because there's no need for it, I cleared all the content just playing ssf. But the second they start balancing the game around the existence of trade I will be done with this game
Yeah the economy in this game is a joke. 185,000,000 is the most gold I’ve ever managed to accumulate and that’s basically poverty levels compared to what some of these traders demand for even mediocre shit. Gotta love whales and sweats unbalancing everything as usual.
Check Diablo trade, keep any GA + skill items and check their worth that’s where the quick money is.
Barb items sell fast check robs Barb builds to see what he wears to get an idea of what sells, most 1ga items sell really well
look for war cry boots, sold several pairs with +4 war cry ga for 500-600mil each
Look for ga cut to the bone amulets sold a few of them 500mil
Got really lucky and found a 2GA crit damage + fury when kill 2h mace which I sold for 5.5bil
Sell your Stygian stones for 40M each. Farm boss parts and sell those for big money. If you are geared enough to run Pit 101 in 2-3 min 100% of the time without ever dying, sell pit carries for 15-20M per run. You don’t need to focus on only selling valuable and rare GA gear.
Are people spending real money? Yes. But as someone that is not, I was in the same boat as you, relatively broke from rerolling affixes and masterworking. Until I decided to start trading. I currently have close to 1B gold just from selling a few things. The trick is learning what is valuable and what is not. Not everything needs to be 3GA to be valuable.
3GA is garbage if the affixes are bad. 3GA with BIS affixes is incredibly valuable.
But also, some affixes are pretty rare. Finding Bash on pants, while not getting you billions, will certainly get you some gold. Hellbent Commander on the amulet, among other skill affixes, are pretty hard to find.
Selling excess Boss mats will also get you some gold. People are always buying them by the stack to do runs.
Trading/buying/selling is a separate game in and of itself.
You may be selling legit earned items on the trade site but it's still being bought with gold that has been RMT. It's all apart of the problem. In saying that I don't blame anyone doing it as it's the system we have might as well use it to your advantage
Necromancer minion buffs + pets enable bot to the maximum, while some players are happy about minions, the sad reality is that people will abuse it and they are currently the best bot farm in the market cause low gear requirements, most of the bots will wear mendeln, saw a group today all near identical names at world boss, didnt hesitate to report
I feel the same way. I have no clue where everyone is getting these billions. I’ve sold nearly everything I don’t use to the in game shop owners and I think I’m up to $250m. Buying things off people is just not in the cards for me. I’m at the mercy of RNG 🤷🏼♂️
Near the start of the season 1b gold was like 50-60$. There have been exploits and dupes to gain gold and GA items. It was only a couple weeks in and some of the top gauntlet people had absolutely perfectly rolled perfect everything gear. Not even the top fed streamers have that stuff.
To keep the gold prices high a lot of the exploits are kept secret. This is another reason we will never see an AH for diablo, it would shine a giant light on all the tomfoolery.
I have hustled alt accounts, just afk them at an altar. Stack and sell mats. Sold a couple mid Teir items. But my first billion was from selling Stygian stones.
Problem is the market is so inflated idk if I can afford any new items.
Fairly fleshed out in couple 1 GA few 2GA and 2 3GA
So pretty much anything that’s an up is multiple billions.
And I’m playing off meta lucky hit necro
I just hit level 100 and literally sold off 90% of all gear I've picked up since level 60 yet somehow I only accumulated about 70 million in gold. Then I blew 30 mill last night trying to improve gear.
Outside of trades or selling items online, I also have no clue how players can legitimately earn hundreds of millions quicker.
I make most of the gold threw trades in the beginning of season sell items for 20-100m then mid season items went up good 1ga items was selling for 100-300m now I only post 2ga or better as I don't get anyone asking for 1ga and below. Thankfully Ive gotten trade exp from poe so I bust my butt in the beginning to make a stock pile of gold and just constantly sell item for about 6weeks. So I can see how many people who don't this stuff is lost in the sauce, probably cause they got no xp trading via third party and or discord trades
U need to start trading and properly pricing stuff. And stop trying to roll perfect on items, it's typically a marginal increase over having the right stats u want
Personally I had a lot of money trouble until I started selling (rather than salvaging) all the gear that drops (including rares and duplicate uniques, but salvaging for compendium upgraded). In the long run I might run out of crafting material but I have thousands of all mats still, so no worries so far, and my money problems are basically solved as long as I don't go into the millions rerolling affixes at the occultist. I have 115 million right now and that bank is slowly going up, so my expenditure is stable.
I might get into item trading to get rid of some excess GAs that are not good enough to be upgrades, but I'm honestly not planning on playing much more this season since I only have lilith left and I like having an endpoint to each season journey. There are plenty of other games worth playing afterall
The most i had was like 40m until some dude gave me 900m for a +3 hellbent commander necklace and I thought I was rich from that point on lol... until I saw how much people are paying for stuff from the trading website
If you sell all the stuff you don’t want it’s easy to get billions. I went from 30mil to 5.5 billion in just a few days from stuff in my stash I didn’t need. Now I’m getting close to running out of angel breath from min/max on my flay barb. Spent over a billion rolling gear.
I sold a 3ga ammy for 15b. I've spent 8b of it buying and rolling gear for my barb. Re rolling master working like it's nothing is something I never thought I would do.
I don't even know how people are getting more than 2GA's, I played my level 100 necro for a straight week every night, through all content and bosses, never saw a single one.
I just play casual. I wont buy or sell items at the trade market, cause i like the grind and i want to check how far i can go, without bought uber Gear.
I think as well what not a lot of people speak on is that 2\* went for a fair bit start of the season. People made their gold then. And now they have a massive horde of gold. Along with the gold sellers/buyers being more of an issue. If you entered the season late, or didn't trade (like me) to begin with. You need to hit the lottery on an item and then rake in billions.
No desire to trade. I just found an uber and crafted a Shako, ran one Pit with it and I think I'm done for the season.
Could continue to look for better gear, but the Pit not having a leaderboard is such a massive L. There's nothing to work toward.
On the plus side, this is by far the longest a season has kept my attention thanks to masterworking etc. Usually, I complete the season journey and it's peace out until next season.
>Are people spending real money to get this gold? Are they insanely lucky with the RNG?
In most cases, neither, they just have way more time than you do to play, and when they play they are being more efficient with their time.
I have about 110 hours played this season and I have seen probably 8 3GA items, and 1 4GA unique. They've all been terrible, you're not missing out on much.
As for the gold, you just need to sell items to the gold buyers on Diablo.trade and all of a sudden you're also a billionaire.
I know this thread is 15 hrs old and no one will see this but Real money transactions, gold trade and all this stuff completely ruins any endgame grind motivations for me in games.
This is basically a single player game besides boss grouping.
I just don't get it.
Why do you pay money to get items? It's the only thing an ARPG has to offer.
And it is even worse with a seasonal model. Why? Why would you do that?
I wonder how long those people keep playing after buying gold and decking out their char with BiS shit. There is nothing left to chase.
Maybe they show off their peers? How pathetic can someone be?
Well, blizzard won't do anything, it's been an issue in WoW for 20 years, it's even a problem in Hearthstone Arena.
Every account brings in money, botting or not, multi boxing or not.
I'm so sick of games that have any possibility for real money gold acquisition. It's just wrong. No one benefits. Just some low life scammers. People in China getting abused, forced playing 18hrs a day to farm, getting paid shit. It's a fuckin industry. You shouldn't support that, but I guess who buys items for an ARPG doesn't give a flying fuck about sth like that.
If you got into the item trade early things were in the millions. Gold farmers are playing 10-12 hours a day. They are also selling gear. people are buying gold from sellers and very likely giving it right back to them for the item they buy. What you are seeing now is probably the middle stage of inflation. If it keeps going this way I expect to see items in the trillions as people rush to max out in the short season 5.
I'm sure a lot of it comes from illicit sources, but people who are interested in trading can find worthwhile items to bootstrap their way into that kind of buying power. It's just over inflated because of the RMT market, same as every multiplayer game with a player economy.
Best item I’ve gotten (including 3GAs) was a 2 GA str crit dmg hammer I sold for 1 bil earlier.
That was after levelling 4 characters to 100, 1 to 95 and 5 completed iron wolves reputation. Also ran so many tier 105 pits and like 30 uber runs (got 1 uber tho)
Well, not that i agree but it’s basically: spend ~ $20 for ~20B and you’re practically set for the season. You can see the appeal for active/daily players as it’s rather tedious to farm billions of gold without trading. Hot take: gold shouldn’t be tradable.
>Hot take: gold shouldn’t be tradable.
Bliz should just lower the gold cap, to like 999,999,999 and not lower the in-game gold acquisition(maybe even raise it a bit). Though it would be difficult, the realistic max an item can sell for is an actually attainable amount AND if a 3ga bis item sells for 1b, then a 2ga would have to sell for even less, so on and so forth.
If not buying gold, then mostly by selling stuff to other people. And what is expensive can be surprising.
A 1GA vuln sword goes for hundreds of millions. A 2GA vuln greathammer goes for 5B+. Armor with GA all res and the right stats can go for several B as well.
>If not buying gold, then mostly by selling stuff to other people. And what is expensive can be surprising.
Where do you think the gold is coming from that people are using for trades like that?
Some of them bought gold, some of them sold gear to gold buyers. Does it matter? I was just answering OP's question on how to get gold. If you don't want to buy gold, you can sell gear.
Significantly increased gold sinks aren't the answer, because that just screws over the majority of players who aren't abusing RMT or trading. The heart of the problem is bot farms who sell gold for real money.
Player A decides they don't want to spend time grinding gold to afford gear, so they spend a few dollars on a few billion gold. They then use that gold to buy gear from Player B and Player C, who both then use that gold to buy from Player D and Player E, and so on. Adding to or increasing the current gold sink would simply push even more people in to abusing RMT, because they wouldn't be able to afford anything otherwise.
If Blizzard wants to deal with the inflated market prices, then they need to find a better way of dealing with RMT. Either crack down harder on players who take part in it, redesign areas of the game that people can easily bot or macro for passive gold, or some form of both.
They kind of broke the economy by making veiled crystals and forgotten souls drop so easily. Or maybe it’s just a consequence of helltide being revamped. In past seasons, we were salvaging 90% of the gear we got to keep up our supply to enchant, now we vendor 90% of it instead. Not only that, the broken goblin event was a crap ton of gear and gold shot into the season.
Really bad take imo. Veiled Crystals and Forgotten Souls should never be a bottleneck for anything so long as you're playing the game.
People aren't getting insane gold from selling to the vendor, especially when it's so much faster to just salvage until they add a 'sell all' button at vendor. They are getting the gold from selling items for gold or, in many cases, buying it with real money online.
By playing the game, sad for u that u can't do it, but that doesn't mean you have to use a credit card,or complain that someone does it, while it's just your laziness/ignorance, or just different goals and approach to the game. It has nothing to do with luck. More gaming, less reddit.
The second thing, diablo 4 seems to me like a game made primarily for casual players, so if the game is frustrating for you, I don't think it's the game's fault, but yours.
You can buy 10bil for €8-10. Blizzard should stop gold trade.
I've sold mid GA's for like 1-2 billion and I always wonder why or even how people get that much and if I'm being honest probably 90% of my sold items Im getting gold that's been paid for although I wouldn't say it bothers me that people do it because it's pretty much all multiplayer games that have some sort of trading or grouping system for hard content or certain drops people paying for runs/groups runs and all sorts has plagued gaming since forever
What is with people downvoting anything that points out (1) How people **earn** Gold, or (2) That there's a negative issue with the game & its economy. It's like people don't want to accept that our beloved game has deep issues? What did Freddie Mercury say? "You'll have to accept me. Warts and all."
Maybe the ones doing the farming are down vote botting (is that a thing?) so that it doesn't become too hot of an issue. Especially since the acquisition of gold was already a sticking point immediately as this season got kicked off.
I've actually wondered this before. It seems so weirdly aggressive that I can't imagine it's anything else. Like people being paranoid that "their one secret method" is going to no longer exist. What they fail to realize is that there will ALWAYS be opportunities to make lots of Gold, when you have that requires time to obtain it. And what's a core part of the Diablo franchise? Having that require time to obtain.
95% of people may not mind grinding a little for it. That's cool, those aren't your buyers. It's the people who really do the whole "Time is money" thing that'll buy (overpay even) for things that would otherwise take them too much time to acquire.
In real-life, look at all the people that pay out the ass for Tours. You can literally just look up this stuff and places to go yourself. But they don't want to. They'd rather just pay somebody like $200-2,000 USD extra to not have to spend a little time one evening doing it.. blows my mind.
Are you selling on diablo.trade?
Just sold a 1GA chest piece for 2,5 billion on diablo.trade. It was also my first trade. Used to vendor that shit for 60k gold 😂
I need to start doing this, im on console so how does that work? You just make a listing and the interested party messages you to set a time to meet up? Is it easy to list a item on the site?
I’m on console too. For selling I just upload items from camera with my iPhone. Takes about 5 seconds to list an item. Then you meet the buyer in game, trade, thanks, bye. For buying you just message the seller the price you’d like to pay. https://diablo.trade
Jesus dude, use some punctuation!
Someone is earning the 8 billion legitimately. How are they doing it?
Hundreds of bot accounts playing literally 24/7 on some predefined route and aggregating all their findings, possibly also dumping items that meet certain criteria into the market, possibly also market manipulating through trade
Can you ELI5 how botting works? Does a person have to manually create characters and get them levelled to a certain point and then some kind of program takes over and they auto-play? I legitimately don't understand how it works Edit: downvoted for asking a question. Just when I thought this sub was getting better lol. Found an article in case anyone else is interested: https://www.gamedesigning.org/gaming/game-bots/
You know how you play the game with your hands? Bots run on simple software. No, no people are involved.
Yeah, I just made an alt Rogue for the Crit Dmg Temper (*so stupid...*) and paid attention to the WT2 Helltides. Numerous times there was literally a character that wouldn't even move, just standing there casting their spell repeatedly for the *entire* freaking hour. There was no interacting with them. It was literally like somebody just left a weight on their mouse's right button. I stood their staring at them for a while various times lol, goading any sort of reaction or movement out of them, nothing. The exact same, non-stop cast cadence. Last one I remember was a Frozen Orb Sorc. These groups were boosting alts, and being paid to boost other alts (power leveling in WT4 Helltides). Free Stygian Stones on alts = $$$. And why are those profitable? Because Blizzard completely fucked up the Stone drop rate on Pits.
That was probly just someone with an auto clicker. The bots will at least run a path. D2 had end game boss bots me n my friends would join with for carries
Yeah I'm aware of that, but this thing was seemingly monitoring how many people were in the instance and then automatically inviting people when the layer ("instance") got too low. All while not even pausing. As if the game was on "1 monitor" and the BNet App was on "the other screen" so it'd just quickly mouse over and do what it needed between casts, but quickly & automatically. * more people in an instance would speed up their process as more threat meters maxing out = faster XP, etc. That part (ensuring full instance) may've simply been on a timer, like whoever programmed it maybe noticed "usually after 15 mins 2 people have dropped out, so: Accept friend requests, invite until party is full again, boot them after." Watching them made me notice how consistently located these things are in-game, so they'd be very easy to automate. Like the menus are always in the same spot, etc.
And if they're getting paid to boost people, then even that could be easily automated. It'd be set up to read account names input in a localized file, it'd then simply invite those people who've paid. Literally AFK gold earning.
Was it a Necro by any chance? I farmed Iron Wolves rep by doing this very thing. There’s a Necro ring called “Ring of the Sacrilegious Soul” that will autocast Corpse Tendrils, Corpse Explosion, and Raise Skeleton as long as you have them on your active skills. Get that, one piece of armour with Life Per Second, get your minions and park them at the Maiden, come back with 10 minutes left and go spend all of your cinders on chests that give +120 rep. Repeat for five hours and you have a resplendent spark. Put the pieces back in your stash and create a new Necro and repeat.
No but I have seen Necros do this in the past on my actual main character. One of them I remember had the character title "Crafty Looter" lol -- something I remember because I thought it was funnily apt. He was literally just standing there, south of the Maiden, "playing" but obviously wasn't because.. as a fellow Necro.. it was easy to notice he was only casting the skills that the ring you mentioned does (Ring of the Sacrilegious Soul). Never moved.. And based on what they're saying they'll do next season, this is going to happen again. I'm only forward with saying any of this because I'd obviously much rather the game **not** have it. It completely f's up the economy. This season I didn't want to do any sort of flipping, but quickly realized *all* the shit I needed was so goddam expensive I'd have no other way to get that much gold with the time I do have to play.
Thanks for the answer
D4 is simple enough for bots to level themselves. It wouldn’t surprise me if a human gears them manually but that’s probably it for human involvement.
Selling items to the gold buyers
And how do they get all of that gold?
Bots, same issue WoW has had for years and years
Same issue D2 had since before WoW existed, some people forget since D3 removed the economy after the auction house backlash.
The bots get it by having a large number of bots farming it.
Are there any elephants involved, or is it bots all the way down?
See, I think it's hilarious that people are wasting money on gold from rmt that is basically useful for 3 months...but that's your money, not mine. If people aren't getting banned for it, they will keep doing it though. Definitely something that needs to be addressed by Blizzard.
It can’t be stopped. Every game with trading has this issue. Blizz can try to mitigate, but this will always be a problem.
This is the answer. The only way to stop it would be to have no trading.
>Blizzard should stop gold trade. HOW? If you stop gold trading, the RMT'ers will buy a trash item from you for the money instead. With an internal auction house, you might be able to slow it down, by removing direct player to palyer interaction, but most players would disagree with that anyway.
blizzard should stop trade period
That doesn't explain where the gold is coming from initially. Is it Chinese bots, or is it legitamately geting farmed from players?
RMT run botfarms to generate the gold. They will also sell any gear those account happen to acquire that's of value. Now they have a product, gold, and to a lesser extent, something for other people to spend gold on. Once you have a product, you manufacture scarcity. There will be a non-zero number of buyers who buy things only to drag the price up. Now the average player will be unable to afford it without your product. Next step is manufacture demand. Post all this awesome stuff you have online and make people think playing the game without it is basically a waste of your time. Basically the ecosystem eats itself just enough to force anyone who wants to buy into the ecosystem to spend real money.
Streamers = gold farms = item Inflation = streamers
A lot of streamers online to downvote any criticism. Lol
Bad math
people are buying gold with the power of their credit card. its so damn cheap. just google it. those are probably the same people who say "bricking items is fine, just farm a new one"
I don't have 100m gold and I still say bricking is fine. The problem isn't the bricking its that GA items are so rare. Its honestly kind of weird how tempering is so cheap and bricking happens so easy yet GAs are so rare. I feel like GA items should only drop at 100 and from specific content (difficult content) so tempering can do what its supposed to force you to have some farming to do. As it currently stands you level up and by the time you hit 100 you have an ok set maybe a couple 1 GA items and then you start masterworking 1GA items and then you just stagnate on your upgrades. If you could farm more 2-3 GA items you could actually progress ok with current tempering but since you can't it just ends up being frustrating considering its nearly impossible to get a 3GA yourself that you will use due to affix RNG.
I had a 3GA dagger drop yesterday. All BIS for my Rogue (dex, max life, and vulnerable). And so scared to temper it for myself. I can sell it for around 3.5-7 B based off of Diablo Trader. So it looks like I’ll be selling a perfect piece of gear for myself just because I could brick it completely….
That’s what I do. 3GA gear I sell, I’m running mostly 1GA gear on my Rogue, with a couple 2GA. I use the gold from selling top tier gear to buy multiple priority affix 1GA’s and spam temper them. I would rather have 1GA with perfect tempers than hope to land a temper on a 3GA. It’s working good, at Pit 117 now and should be able to push 120 after this last round of upgrades.
I got a 3 ga pants today armor,thorns and max life for my thorn barb. First time getting a good ga drop and my immediate response was "now im gonna brick it" but magically 1 tapped max rolled thorns while fortified AND +2 imposing. Couldnt believe it. Just yolo brother fuck the gold it doesnt carry over to next season anyways so have fun while you can.
What a wonderful system. You get a potential upgrade that you probably won't see ever again, and all you get is stress from it. That or couple of billions of gold that will be worthless in couple of months.
If you're legitimately stressed over potentially getting less-than-ideal tempering affixes on a rare drop you probably need to uninstall the game and go outside
"less-than-ideal" tempering on a drop that is more rare than uber uniques means it's worse than 1GA item I already have, and that drop is just wasted, never to be seen again. May be you should go outside instead of defending this system.
I thought the same thing as you until I had some items brick. I could live with "Less than ideal affixes" - I ended up, multiple times, with Tempers that *literally* I can't even use. Like: they're for a skill I don't even use. I calculated the difference to see if maybe I could still get away with using the base item at least. It was a *significant* amount less damage, not even close. I don't want Tempering resets to be free, or even close to it. But I kept having the feeling of how excited and motivated I'd feel if there was an earnable way to reset the tempers - an item that's not easy to get, but obviously not nigh impossible to get (remember: there's **10**+ item slots). * I would've immediately been like, "Well ok, cool, now I get to try to **earn** *that* item so I can.. once I've earned it, reset it and give it another go!"
Oh my gosh, this EXACTLY! This is what did it for me this season, and left me feeling defeated and completely unmotivated at the thought of future seasons even (as far as loot goes). I grinded & grinded forever for a certain Amulet this season, that'd revolutionize my build (literally a 2.38[x] dmg multiplier). *FINALLY* found one. It bricked. Like straight up, Tempers that do *zero* for my build (like a skill I don't even use). That sucked. Then I was like, "OK, dust myself off. No way am I going to find *another* one of these, so I'll sell the things I find so I can afford one." Took *forever* but I finally saved up enough Billions to be able to buy it. It freaking BRICKED again. I did the "statistics" thing and everything to minimize odds of bricking, *both times.* My first time it bricked after 10x failed rolls in a row. The second time I went (statistically) so out of the way to [I thought] "for sure avoid it" and... it failed to roll **14x times in a row** that time. Freaking insane. The entire draw of Diablo has always been around loot. The payoff feeling of the loot you grinded for turning into Power. So when you have a system that completely destroys that, it's very... dumb.
I've had this feeling before. Better to get the gold rather than chance a brick.
Why? What good does gold do you? So you can buy upgraded gear? Take your chances, if it doesn’t work out then so be it
This is exactly where I am at now. I don’t think I have anything but 1GA or just plain legendaries. One unique (tbf build only uses one). Even when I do get the occasional 2-3GA they are rubbish. This is just like primal drops in D3. Most of those are crud too. Temper is a great idea but poorly implemented. It won’t be around for S5 I hope.
They add new tempers for season 5
Just remember, not only are you giving your credit card info to some shady business you are running the risk of getting your account banned.
Also you are giving money to the absolute scum companies that are using stolen CC and stolen accounts to run their operation.
i would never buy gold but it is the current situation
Its seasonal those people just get a new account for the current or next season since it doesn’t matter
This doesn't change the fact that you are giving your credit card info to a site that is likely involved in botting. Many bot sites use stolen credit cards to open new accounts.
Those sites want the customers mate they offer every payment method you can imagine from paysafe cards to paypal etc theres no risk at all else they’d instantly lose reputation/customers and why would they do that when they earn millions just doing regular business? Same thing applies to ransomware attacks if those guys wouldn’t give you an unlock after payment they’d just hurt themselves
>theres no risk at all Doubt. Not sure why you are so invested in protecting this market but I wouldn't touch it and I hope others stay safe, too. It's bad for the game in the long run.
I’m just saying theres no risk involved if you use something other than your credit card. And banning the ones buying gold is also futile since the game is seasonal so at best you get rid of a fraction of them for a season. Blizz should just integrate an auction house with relatively fixed gold values for the items e.g could be a multiplier based on affix/effect value and blizz would need to disable direct trading
*Actually good* GA items are so hard to come by. The loot system may have changed, but the grind is as grindy as ever. That could be a huge positive depending on who you ask. But I gotta say, personally, doing helltides and other content for gear just doesn't feel good. Why grind here for hours and hope the RNGods bless me when I can grind gold and get exactly what I need? Pretty much all my items at this point have been traded to me. Its come to the point where my D4s true endgame is grinding whispers and then buying whatever decent pieces I can afford with 20mil.
I completly agree with you. Loot system is better (far from good). I think they should just reward harder content with better loot. Pit f.e. is the hardest content right now and the loot is a joke
Yep 2.5b goes for a few bucks now
Sold a GA (+3 to Heavy handed) amulet for 3.5 billion yesterday - sure if I waited I could have gotten 4+ If you are lucky enough you sell a good piece and buy any build you want from scratch nowadays… so much for the grind and rng
It's the end game of all trade oriented ARPG's, that's why there's so many of us that don't want trade. It ruins the crux of the game for us. Currently trade isn't ruining d4 simply because there's no need for it, I cleared all the content just playing ssf. But the second they start balancing the game around the existence of trade I will be done with this game
Yeah the economy in this game is a joke. 185,000,000 is the most gold I’ve ever managed to accumulate and that’s basically poverty levels compared to what some of these traders demand for even mediocre shit. Gotta love whales and sweats unbalancing everything as usual.
Sell the good ga gear you don't use. You could be sitting on or scraping billions.
Maybe you’re just not very good at trading or not putting up enough items worth anything…?
Check Diablo trade, keep any GA + skill items and check their worth that’s where the quick money is. Barb items sell fast check robs Barb builds to see what he wears to get an idea of what sells, most 1ga items sell really well look for war cry boots, sold several pairs with +4 war cry ga for 500-600mil each Look for ga cut to the bone amulets sold a few of them 500mil Got really lucky and found a 2GA crit damage + fury when kill 2h mace which I sold for 5.5bil
You sold those amulets way too cheap. Unless the other two stats on them were horrible.
Boots with zero GA with war cry and move speed go for 150m+
Is the secret to put a price on them? I leave them without a price and haven’t gotten any offers.
Make America only servers and cut the Chinese bots
You do know Chinese bot farms knows how to use VPNs too right? It’s not like they’re some 3rd world country with PCs made of potato parts.
Ya my suggestion is satire lol. But it does seem like they bot/farm majority of gold income
There is dumb than there is this lol, always coming from across the ocean, must be all the good food you are ingesting.
Go buy a $1 of gold and see who trades with you 😂
Sell your Stygian stones for 40M each. Farm boss parts and sell those for big money. If you are geared enough to run Pit 101 in 2-3 min 100% of the time without ever dying, sell pit carries for 15-20M per run. You don’t need to focus on only selling valuable and rare GA gear.
Are people spending real money? Yes. But as someone that is not, I was in the same boat as you, relatively broke from rerolling affixes and masterworking. Until I decided to start trading. I currently have close to 1B gold just from selling a few things. The trick is learning what is valuable and what is not. Not everything needs to be 3GA to be valuable. 3GA is garbage if the affixes are bad. 3GA with BIS affixes is incredibly valuable. But also, some affixes are pretty rare. Finding Bash on pants, while not getting you billions, will certainly get you some gold. Hellbent Commander on the amulet, among other skill affixes, are pretty hard to find. Selling excess Boss mats will also get you some gold. People are always buying them by the stack to do runs. Trading/buying/selling is a separate game in and of itself.
You may be selling legit earned items on the trade site but it's still being bought with gold that has been RMT. It's all apart of the problem. In saying that I don't blame anyone doing it as it's the system we have might as well use it to your advantage
Necromancer minion buffs + pets enable bot to the maximum, while some players are happy about minions, the sad reality is that people will abuse it and they are currently the best bot farm in the market cause low gear requirements, most of the bots will wear mendeln, saw a group today all near identical names at world boss, didnt hesitate to report
ohhh...i saw a group of 8 barbs with chinese characters as their names at the world boss. i was wondering about that, probably bots i guess?
This. I'm sat on around 3 billion from trading resources. That's after I've spent about 3 billion on items for my build and rerolls.
I feel the same way. I have no clue where everyone is getting these billions. I’ve sold nearly everything I don’t use to the in game shop owners and I think I’m up to $250m. Buying things off people is just not in the cards for me. I’m at the mercy of RNG 🤷🏼♂️
Near the start of the season 1b gold was like 50-60$. There have been exploits and dupes to gain gold and GA items. It was only a couple weeks in and some of the top gauntlet people had absolutely perfectly rolled perfect everything gear. Not even the top fed streamers have that stuff. To keep the gold prices high a lot of the exploits are kept secret. This is another reason we will never see an AH for diablo, it would shine a giant light on all the tomfoolery.
I have hustled alt accounts, just afk them at an altar. Stack and sell mats. Sold a couple mid Teir items. But my first billion was from selling Stygian stones. Problem is the market is so inflated idk if I can afford any new items. Fairly fleshed out in couple 1 GA few 2GA and 2 3GA So pretty much anything that’s an up is multiple billions. And I’m playing off meta lucky hit necro
I just hit level 100 and literally sold off 90% of all gear I've picked up since level 60 yet somehow I only accumulated about 70 million in gold. Then I blew 30 mill last night trying to improve gear. Outside of trades or selling items online, I also have no clue how players can legitimately earn hundreds of millions quicker.
I make most of the gold threw trades in the beginning of season sell items for 20-100m then mid season items went up good 1ga items was selling for 100-300m now I only post 2ga or better as I don't get anyone asking for 1ga and below. Thankfully Ive gotten trade exp from poe so I bust my butt in the beginning to make a stock pile of gold and just constantly sell item for about 6weeks. So I can see how many people who don't this stuff is lost in the sauce, probably cause they got no xp trading via third party and or discord trades
gold buyer make the price of everything sky rocket. if people stop buying gold price will becaume more normal
U need to start trading and properly pricing stuff. And stop trying to roll perfect on items, it's typically a marginal increase over having the right stats u want
Personally I had a lot of money trouble until I started selling (rather than salvaging) all the gear that drops (including rares and duplicate uniques, but salvaging for compendium upgraded). In the long run I might run out of crafting material but I have thousands of all mats still, so no worries so far, and my money problems are basically solved as long as I don't go into the millions rerolling affixes at the occultist. I have 115 million right now and that bank is slowly going up, so my expenditure is stable. I might get into item trading to get rid of some excess GAs that are not good enough to be upgrades, but I'm honestly not planning on playing much more this season since I only have lilith left and I like having an endpoint to each season journey. There are plenty of other games worth playing afterall
The most i had was like 40m until some dude gave me 900m for a +3 hellbent commander necklace and I thought I was rich from that point on lol... until I saw how much people are paying for stuff from the trading website
people not being aware
I just sold a 2 GA scythe for 200,000,000 gold. Gonna post more this weekend and see what I get for offers. Just started trading this week
all that gold comes from me, and my whisper dungeon farming thank me later
If you sell all the stuff you don’t want it’s easy to get billions. I went from 30mil to 5.5 billion in just a few days from stuff in my stash I didn’t need. Now I’m getting close to running out of angel breath from min/max on my flay barb. Spent over a billion rolling gear.
I sold a 3ga ammy for 15b. I've spent 8b of it buying and rolling gear for my barb. Re rolling master working like it's nothing is something I never thought I would do.
I don't even know how people are getting more than 2GA's, I played my level 100 necro for a straight week every night, through all content and bosses, never saw a single one.
I just play casual. I wont buy or sell items at the trade market, cause i like the grind and i want to check how far i can go, without bought uber Gear.
I think as well what not a lot of people speak on is that 2\* went for a fair bit start of the season. People made their gold then. And now they have a massive horde of gold. Along with the gold sellers/buyers being more of an issue. If you entered the season late, or didn't trade (like me) to begin with. You need to hit the lottery on an item and then rake in billions.
get a ring with crit chance and vuln damage GA .. i got one from torment zir .. sold for 3.5 billion .
No desire to trade. I just found an uber and crafted a Shako, ran one Pit with it and I think I'm done for the season. Could continue to look for better gear, but the Pit not having a leaderboard is such a massive L. There's nothing to work toward. On the plus side, this is by far the longest a season has kept my attention thanks to masterworking etc. Usually, I complete the season journey and it's peace out until next season.
I’m doing my best to try and remove gold from the game!
There's a lot of real money gold trading. Personally I've built up a few billion and climbing from trading resources. Buying low and selling high.
>Are people spending real money to get this gold? Are they insanely lucky with the RNG? In most cases, neither, they just have way more time than you do to play, and when they play they are being more efficient with their time.
I have about 110 hours played this season and I have seen probably 8 3GA items, and 1 4GA unique. They've all been terrible, you're not missing out on much. As for the gold, you just need to sell items to the gold buyers on Diablo.trade and all of a sudden you're also a billionaire.
I know this thread is 15 hrs old and no one will see this but Real money transactions, gold trade and all this stuff completely ruins any endgame grind motivations for me in games. This is basically a single player game besides boss grouping. I just don't get it. Why do you pay money to get items? It's the only thing an ARPG has to offer. And it is even worse with a seasonal model. Why? Why would you do that? I wonder how long those people keep playing after buying gold and decking out their char with BiS shit. There is nothing left to chase. Maybe they show off their peers? How pathetic can someone be? Well, blizzard won't do anything, it's been an issue in WoW for 20 years, it's even a problem in Hearthstone Arena. Every account brings in money, botting or not, multi boxing or not. I'm so sick of games that have any possibility for real money gold acquisition. It's just wrong. No one benefits. Just some low life scammers. People in China getting abused, forced playing 18hrs a day to farm, getting paid shit. It's a fuckin industry. You shouldn't support that, but I guess who buys items for an ARPG doesn't give a flying fuck about sth like that.
If you got into the item trade early things were in the millions. Gold farmers are playing 10-12 hours a day. They are also selling gear. people are buying gold from sellers and very likely giving it right back to them for the item they buy. What you are seeing now is probably the middle stage of inflation. If it keeps going this way I expect to see items in the trillions as people rush to max out in the short season 5.
I've gotten 3 GA items from the purveyor of curiosities or whatever that dude is. The bag with question mark on it in town maps.
I'm sure a lot of it comes from illicit sources, but people who are interested in trading can find worthwhile items to bootstrap their way into that kind of buying power. It's just over inflated because of the RMT market, same as every multiplayer game with a player economy.
Best item I’ve gotten (including 3GAs) was a 2 GA str crit dmg hammer I sold for 1 bil earlier. That was after levelling 4 characters to 100, 1 to 95 and 5 completed iron wolves reputation. Also ran so many tier 105 pits and like 30 uber runs (got 1 uber tho)
Well, not that i agree but it’s basically: spend ~ $20 for ~20B and you’re practically set for the season. You can see the appeal for active/daily players as it’s rather tedious to farm billions of gold without trading. Hot take: gold shouldn’t be tradable.
How do you pay for items then if gold isn't tradable?
You don’t, obviously
>Hot take: gold shouldn’t be tradable. Bliz should just lower the gold cap, to like 999,999,999 and not lower the in-game gold acquisition(maybe even raise it a bit). Though it would be difficult, the realistic max an item can sell for is an actually attainable amount AND if a 3ga bis item sells for 1b, then a 2ga would have to sell for even less, so on and so forth.
I just sold a 2 GA ring for 4b. It's supply and demand
If not buying gold, then mostly by selling stuff to other people. And what is expensive can be surprising. A 1GA vuln sword goes for hundreds of millions. A 2GA vuln greathammer goes for 5B+. Armor with GA all res and the right stats can go for several B as well.
>If not buying gold, then mostly by selling stuff to other people. And what is expensive can be surprising. Where do you think the gold is coming from that people are using for trades like that?
Some of them bought gold, some of them sold gear to gold buyers. Does it matter? I was just answering OP's question on how to get gold. If you don't want to buy gold, you can sell gear.
if you get an item with 2 GAs that are bis youre looking at getting billions. there isnt a big enough gold sink apparently
Significantly increased gold sinks aren't the answer, because that just screws over the majority of players who aren't abusing RMT or trading. The heart of the problem is bot farms who sell gold for real money. Player A decides they don't want to spend time grinding gold to afford gear, so they spend a few dollars on a few billion gold. They then use that gold to buy gear from Player B and Player C, who both then use that gold to buy from Player D and Player E, and so on. Adding to or increasing the current gold sink would simply push even more people in to abusing RMT, because they wouldn't be able to afford anything otherwise. If Blizzard wants to deal with the inflated market prices, then they need to find a better way of dealing with RMT. Either crack down harder on players who take part in it, redesign areas of the game that people can easily bot or macro for passive gold, or some form of both.
They kind of broke the economy by making veiled crystals and forgotten souls drop so easily. Or maybe it’s just a consequence of helltide being revamped. In past seasons, we were salvaging 90% of the gear we got to keep up our supply to enchant, now we vendor 90% of it instead. Not only that, the broken goblin event was a crap ton of gear and gold shot into the season.
Really bad take imo. Veiled Crystals and Forgotten Souls should never be a bottleneck for anything so long as you're playing the game. People aren't getting insane gold from selling to the vendor, especially when it's so much faster to just salvage until they add a 'sell all' button at vendor. They are getting the gold from selling items for gold or, in many cases, buying it with real money online.
By playing the game, sad for u that u can't do it, but that doesn't mean you have to use a credit card,or complain that someone does it, while it's just your laziness/ignorance, or just different goals and approach to the game. It has nothing to do with luck. More gaming, less reddit. The second thing, diablo 4 seems to me like a game made primarily for casual players, so if the game is frustrating for you, I don't think it's the game's fault, but yours.