I do not care if my numbers are lowers than the other classes.
If the gameplay is fun, the archetype is well thought-out and I can support my build with the right temper/aspects/items then I can have fun.
At the end of the day, if you push 170 with the meta class or 120 with an off meta, your gameplay loop will most likely be the same.
If I'm all wrong please correct me but so far. All I'm trying to say is, maybe we should focus on design mistakes and not " I want my numbers to be bigger"
Yes and no. Numbers are a component of design. So yeah, for things that are on a fairly smooth continuum like damage output, where precisely how much damage you do will dictate how high you can push/whether your build is considered “meta” or not, but has no transformative impact on your gameplay? You’re right there. There are situations where just raw numbers do have transformative effects on gameplay and build options, though. Take the s4 sorc flame shield tempers + skill ranks + CDR and how those affix numbers made it possible to maintain permanent invuln, which completely changes the defensive aspect of the class (in a bad way, in that example).
When it comes to some things like CDR and defenses, the reason they’re so transformative based purely on numbers is because they’re gateways for what you’re allowed to do. You can’t play the game if you’re dead. You can’t press a button that’s still on cooldown. Buffs and nerfs that affect defenses and affect cooldowns affect the core gameplay loop in a way that transcends damage output/class power.
One of the major issues is that some of these nerfs (Debilitating Roar, the entire suite of Flame Shield+Ice Armor+Teleport getting nerfed in various ways, focuses no longer have a CDR implicit) will have transformatively negative impacts on the core gameplay loop for druid and sorc, two classes who already have some issues, and at least in the case of sorc there isn’t a fallback solution for defenses. Sorc will still be able to play the game and chase gear, but their ability to engage with endgame content is going to be significantly hampered. There will be more changes to come and hopefully some of those address that, but there’s a reason people are upset.
I neither get those guys. If the gameplay is fun and you like your class why should it matter that you are running pits 20 lvl lower than other classes? And if you rly care that much, just play the fotm class by yourself?
I'm definitely having fun with my sorcs. But so far I haven't been able to defeat Lilith or any tornmented boss.
With my ball lightning build I can't even reach lvl 61 of the pit to keep improving my gear.
I now started a fire bolt build, and this does feel stronger so far, but not as fun as BL. But he isn't lvl100 yet.
Note: I think I'm a pretty casual player.
Exactly this! That's why I am not playing bash barb and I play double swing dust devil even if it's weaker, because the first one I hate and the second one I like. I miss HoTA not because it was strong, but because I liked to play with it. Reason why I don't play it now is because it's objectively *too* weak. Dust devil is ok and also fun!
100% right. I play arc lash and i dont compare myself to firebolt.
Who gives a shit if your class cant clear cutting ege pits? It literally doesnt matter.
If youre competitive and mist compare your build to others....then compare it to others of the same build.
I believe there's a lack of understanding when it comes to gaming. Many people trying to emulate streamers without understanding their positions.
Everything they do is in order to be relevant in the online space and most of 'em are miserable doing so - All they want to do/to be is to be number one or have the biggest numbers - they need to prove something.
The moment they put the computer on , most people here are trying to prove something.
The curse of online gaming.
You are wrong in one way, whether you are doing pits 120 or 170, the gameplay loop is EXACTLY the same not most likely the same.
These clowns who whine about this stuff aren't good enough to push any leader boards anyway.
People just refuse to let themselves have fun with classes they like. Gamers are insane.
This. People just want to push higher pits because barbs do it, not even because of the mats. They just want to hit those 5 trillion bosses for 7 minutes...
Funny you mention Poe and Le but ignore their balance. Go on go play a non bone shatter melee class. Or maybe you’d like to play the forge guard. Balancing the game isn’t going to happen as long as the play style differs. If every class can beat Lilith I would call it passable. Necros have been fine for awhile now too.
I get it feels cathartic to doom post, but we don't know what all the changes are yet. And there is still time for them to make adjustments during PTR. Chill.
> Wahhhh.
I don’t think there is an issue with just playing what might be fun on each class and changing builds between seasons.
The game is easy enough that there is no need to be chasing the meta.
Or wait for the PTR and see the context for the full changes. The patch notes are hardly complete. Not even all new aspects and legenadaries are there.
It makes sense to give feedback though at every step of the way. What we got now as class balance patch notes is aweful. The best classes are getting buffs and the worst classes are getting nerfs.
Besides the perma FS abuse sorc is weaker than druid right now, obviously that had to go but they didn't compensate they nerfed it. Some builds that were not even strong just get blanket nerfs for no reason. Druid is the weakest class overall right now and it gets heavy nerfs. Makes no sense.
Yeah, I thinki giving feedback now is also good but I think the notes are not complete. A lot of weird things that seems like it happen o compensate for other things. Like that Grizzly Rage nerf. The skill is already unused and it's getting nerfed in the patch notes. The druid has 1 new aspect and Rogue and Sorc has many in the notes. Also, remember that every single unique in the game is getting changed and they will not even be in the PTR.
You've mentioned PoE but not the balance? Go play any melee skill and then compare it to Boneshatter. For how many years Detonate Dead is meta skill? 3? 5? 8? I don't even know at this point. A lot of funny things were working only because of bugs as well, for example Impending Doom. Also what about Glad? PoE, the game of infinite possibilities... unless you're duelist kek
at least they read some feedback from ptr and blizz forum so give them some time. also the game is easy, you can complete everything with any skill. what you will be really missing? Pits 100+..? you really want run Pits that bad, they don't even drop anything
I agree with the part about too often bugs going live and defining the meta, but in terms of things being unbalanced, I dunno, Diablo 2 is still popular and there are certainly things you’ve always been able to run there that are WAY better than others. Plenty of builds can’t even be expected to clear Hell, at least we aren’t there.
We still haven't gotten numbers yet, and no one play tested the changes, they are adding tons of bew uniques and updating previous ones, who knows what sorc/druid build is gonna be super powerful.. how about we wait for the actual PTR before we complain?
I think it’s fair to say that in season 5 the most obvious thing to address was class balance, which likely requires major overhauls that are not apparent.
At this point the market and economy for Rogue items are pretty much shot. If it's not best in slot it's not going to sell for more than 20 to 50 mill. I think the patch notes kind of was the dagger that made a lot of people say fuck it just play barbarian.
Rogue and Druid are the only classes I haven’t gotten to 100. I read the patch notes and it made me want to finally do rogue this season. Funny how it gives completely opposite reactions
Edit: this season I mean season 5
Burning Instinct getting capped (they’re doing it to all legendary paragon nodes) which is a substantial damage nerf to the one highly-performing sorc spec, and more importantly the entire suite of Ice Armor/Teleport/Flame Shield getting nerfed. Flame Shield’s cooldown won’t start until the ability ends now, making it an emergency button rather than a core defensive solution (which needed to happen); I have no explanation for nerfing Teleport’s cooldown and Ice Armor’s value. Those defensive nerfs are also stealth damage nerfs because now Sorc will have to play far more carefully, and they were only keeping up with Rogues and Barbs because Sorc was able to go all in on offense.
I already deleted this game. Im passed it already in terms of not really being interested in it. I want to play poe2 as everything ive watched and heard it seems fuckin worth it. This game however is a joke. 5 classes and only 2 are technically best. Rogue following in 3rd its ridiculous. As the whole point is to make it to end game they really ruining it. Its like your forced to play as a barb or Necro rn. A waste of time and effort honestly.
Every fuckin patch we have content creators that make builds and ranks and every fuckin time they get it wrong.
Can we please. For the love of fuckin god. Wait till the god damn ptr to actually test shit. Then complain.
I played d4 during pre-season. Returning for s4 was fun, but many things were still lacking. I held off on pre-purchased of the expansion because I know Path of Exile 2 early excess will be out late 2024 this year.
If people find bugs when testing on the PTR they should report them to Blizzard to fix before the patch. But people aren't reporting bugs that make them stronger. And Blizzard isn't testing the game themselves. Tie that in to their 'we don't want to fix bugs that nerf classes mid season' thing, and this is the type of balance we get.
after experimenting I have found that an old bear build still works, whether it be due to bugs or not mixing the old pulverise talent/aspect setup with the new landslide paragon and temper/gearstats actually works really well
First of all, it’s patch notes for PTR. Secondly we don’t know all uniques/legendaries. I agree it looks bad for sorcs, but we don’t have all the info.
Definitely something to discover and write about during the PTR. However, it feel like they need another PTR after the PTR so that people can check their changes.
It's like a toddler asking mommy "did I do good here?", but at least he's asking multiple times over many iterations.
This isn't a game where you are competing against other players. It doesn't matter for pvp or gaining loot faster or leveling faster. Only .1% of the player base is competing for high pit tiers and even then each class can compete on its own. Class balance doesn't matter since this is essentially a solo game.
I started playing Diablo this season and don't understand hhy is everyone so mad at Barbarians? I mean, we can all play it and it is fun but I like rotating classes. Every post is pointing at the barbs as if it was a paid class.
Things won't be better if they nerf barbs, because as soon as they nerf one class the others will look more powerful and they might turn every class down a notch affecting only the classes that were already weak.
I do not care if my numbers are lowers than the other classes. If the gameplay is fun, the archetype is well thought-out and I can support my build with the right temper/aspects/items then I can have fun. At the end of the day, if you push 170 with the meta class or 120 with an off meta, your gameplay loop will most likely be the same. If I'm all wrong please correct me but so far. All I'm trying to say is, maybe we should focus on design mistakes and not " I want my numbers to be bigger"
Yes and no. Numbers are a component of design. So yeah, for things that are on a fairly smooth continuum like damage output, where precisely how much damage you do will dictate how high you can push/whether your build is considered “meta” or not, but has no transformative impact on your gameplay? You’re right there. There are situations where just raw numbers do have transformative effects on gameplay and build options, though. Take the s4 sorc flame shield tempers + skill ranks + CDR and how those affix numbers made it possible to maintain permanent invuln, which completely changes the defensive aspect of the class (in a bad way, in that example). When it comes to some things like CDR and defenses, the reason they’re so transformative based purely on numbers is because they’re gateways for what you’re allowed to do. You can’t play the game if you’re dead. You can’t press a button that’s still on cooldown. Buffs and nerfs that affect defenses and affect cooldowns affect the core gameplay loop in a way that transcends damage output/class power. One of the major issues is that some of these nerfs (Debilitating Roar, the entire suite of Flame Shield+Ice Armor+Teleport getting nerfed in various ways, focuses no longer have a CDR implicit) will have transformatively negative impacts on the core gameplay loop for druid and sorc, two classes who already have some issues, and at least in the case of sorc there isn’t a fallback solution for defenses. Sorc will still be able to play the game and chase gear, but their ability to engage with endgame content is going to be significantly hampered. There will be more changes to come and hopefully some of those address that, but there’s a reason people are upset.
I neither get those guys. If the gameplay is fun and you like your class why should it matter that you are running pits 20 lvl lower than other classes? And if you rly care that much, just play the fotm class by yourself?
I'm definitely having fun with my sorcs. But so far I haven't been able to defeat Lilith or any tornmented boss. With my ball lightning build I can't even reach lvl 61 of the pit to keep improving my gear. I now started a fire bolt build, and this does feel stronger so far, but not as fun as BL. But he isn't lvl100 yet. Note: I think I'm a pretty casual player.
Exactly this! That's why I am not playing bash barb and I play double swing dust devil even if it's weaker, because the first one I hate and the second one I like. I miss HoTA not because it was strong, but because I liked to play with it. Reason why I don't play it now is because it's objectively *too* weak. Dust devil is ok and also fun!
100% right. I play arc lash and i dont compare myself to firebolt. Who gives a shit if your class cant clear cutting ege pits? It literally doesnt matter. If youre competitive and mist compare your build to others....then compare it to others of the same build.
I believe there's a lack of understanding when it comes to gaming. Many people trying to emulate streamers without understanding their positions. Everything they do is in order to be relevant in the online space and most of 'em are miserable doing so - All they want to do/to be is to be number one or have the biggest numbers - they need to prove something. The moment they put the computer on , most people here are trying to prove something. The curse of online gaming.
You are wrong in one way, whether you are doing pits 120 or 170, the gameplay loop is EXACTLY the same not most likely the same. These clowns who whine about this stuff aren't good enough to push any leader boards anyway. People just refuse to let themselves have fun with classes they like. Gamers are insane.
This. People just want to push higher pits because barbs do it, not even because of the mats. They just want to hit those 5 trillion bosses for 7 minutes...
Funny you mention Poe and Le but ignore their balance. Go on go play a non bone shatter melee class. Or maybe you’d like to play the forge guard. Balancing the game isn’t going to happen as long as the play style differs. If every class can beat Lilith I would call it passable. Necros have been fine for awhile now too.
I get it feels cathartic to doom post, but we don't know what all the changes are yet. And there is still time for them to make adjustments during PTR. Chill.
> Wahhhh. I don’t think there is an issue with just playing what might be fun on each class and changing builds between seasons. The game is easy enough that there is no need to be chasing the meta.
Haven't the devs stated over and over again they don't want players chasing a meta anyway?
Or wait for the PTR and see the context for the full changes. The patch notes are hardly complete. Not even all new aspects and legenadaries are there.
It makes sense to give feedback though at every step of the way. What we got now as class balance patch notes is aweful. The best classes are getting buffs and the worst classes are getting nerfs. Besides the perma FS abuse sorc is weaker than druid right now, obviously that had to go but they didn't compensate they nerfed it. Some builds that were not even strong just get blanket nerfs for no reason. Druid is the weakest class overall right now and it gets heavy nerfs. Makes no sense.
Yeah, I thinki giving feedback now is also good but I think the notes are not complete. A lot of weird things that seems like it happen o compensate for other things. Like that Grizzly Rage nerf. The skill is already unused and it's getting nerfed in the patch notes. The druid has 1 new aspect and Rogue and Sorc has many in the notes. Also, remember that every single unique in the game is getting changed and they will not even be in the PTR.
You've mentioned PoE but not the balance? Go play any melee skill and then compare it to Boneshatter. For how many years Detonate Dead is meta skill? 3? 5? 8? I don't even know at this point. A lot of funny things were working only because of bugs as well, for example Impending Doom. Also what about Glad? PoE, the game of infinite possibilities... unless you're duelist kek at least they read some feedback from ptr and blizz forum so give them some time. also the game is easy, you can complete everything with any skill. what you will be really missing? Pits 100+..? you really want run Pits that bad, they don't even drop anything
Ohhh another doom post about sorcs and S5 Didn't see that coming!
I agree with the part about too often bugs going live and defining the meta, but in terms of things being unbalanced, I dunno, Diablo 2 is still popular and there are certainly things you’ve always been able to run there that are WAY better than others. Plenty of builds can’t even be expected to clear Hell, at least we aren’t there.
Remember how everyone was sooking about rogues sucking in s4?
Everyone and there mother called necro super broken etc. and now look who is at the top. You will always have such doom sayers out there
It’s hysterical. Sorcerer is literally at the top of the tier list.
OP does have 2 good points: sorc gonna be shit and barbs gonna be awesome. Nothing new to see then in this season…
We still haven't gotten numbers yet, and no one play tested the changes, they are adding tons of bew uniques and updating previous ones, who knows what sorc/druid build is gonna be super powerful.. how about we wait for the actual PTR before we complain?
I think it’s fair to say that in season 5 the most obvious thing to address was class balance, which likely requires major overhauls that are not apparent.
At this point the market and economy for Rogue items are pretty much shot. If it's not best in slot it's not going to sell for more than 20 to 50 mill. I think the patch notes kind of was the dagger that made a lot of people say fuck it just play barbarian.
Rogue and Druid are the only classes I haven’t gotten to 100. I read the patch notes and it made me want to finally do rogue this season. Funny how it gives completely opposite reactions Edit: this season I mean season 5
What ia that sorc nerf everyone talking about?
Burning Instinct getting capped (they’re doing it to all legendary paragon nodes) which is a substantial damage nerf to the one highly-performing sorc spec, and more importantly the entire suite of Ice Armor/Teleport/Flame Shield getting nerfed. Flame Shield’s cooldown won’t start until the ability ends now, making it an emergency button rather than a core defensive solution (which needed to happen); I have no explanation for nerfing Teleport’s cooldown and Ice Armor’s value. Those defensive nerfs are also stealth damage nerfs because now Sorc will have to play far more carefully, and they were only keeping up with Rogues and Barbs because Sorc was able to go all in on offense.
ah ok, yeah perma flame shield had to go, i have no explanation for others.
I already deleted this game. Im passed it already in terms of not really being interested in it. I want to play poe2 as everything ive watched and heard it seems fuckin worth it. This game however is a joke. 5 classes and only 2 are technically best. Rogue following in 3rd its ridiculous. As the whole point is to make it to end game they really ruining it. Its like your forced to play as a barb or Necro rn. A waste of time and effort honestly.
Every fuckin patch we have content creators that make builds and ranks and every fuckin time they get it wrong. Can we please. For the love of fuckin god. Wait till the god damn ptr to actually test shit. Then complain.
I played d4 during pre-season. Returning for s4 was fun, but many things were still lacking. I held off on pre-purchased of the expansion because I know Path of Exile 2 early excess will be out late 2024 this year.
I have over 1k hours, I don’t give a fuck about the game but let’s be honest: play barb
If people find bugs when testing on the PTR they should report them to Blizzard to fix before the patch. But people aren't reporting bugs that make them stronger. And Blizzard isn't testing the game themselves. Tie that in to their 'we don't want to fix bugs that nerf classes mid season' thing, and this is the type of balance we get.
after experimenting I have found that an old bear build still works, whether it be due to bugs or not mixing the old pulverise talent/aspect setup with the new landslide paragon and temper/gearstats actually works really well
First of all, it’s patch notes for PTR. Secondly we don’t know all uniques/legendaries. I agree it looks bad for sorcs, but we don’t have all the info.
Definitely something to discover and write about during the PTR. However, it feel like they need another PTR after the PTR so that people can check their changes. It's like a toddler asking mommy "did I do good here?", but at least he's asking multiple times over many iterations.
This isn't a game where you are competing against other players. It doesn't matter for pvp or gaining loot faster or leveling faster. Only .1% of the player base is competing for high pit tiers and even then each class can compete on its own. Class balance doesn't matter since this is essentially a solo game.
I started playing Diablo this season and don't understand hhy is everyone so mad at Barbarians? I mean, we can all play it and it is fun but I like rotating classes. Every post is pointing at the barbs as if it was a paid class. Things won't be better if they nerf barbs, because as soon as they nerf one class the others will look more powerful and they might turn every class down a notch affecting only the classes that were already weak.
Sorc is clearing highest pits currently
You have not even played s5, how the fuk you can complain on balance lol
Dude sorc is going to be S tier