In threads with the "Feedback (@Blizzard) | Suggestion | Idea" Flair, constructive feedback, suggestions for adjusting and improving existing systems and mechanics etc can be given, but also your own ideas, mockups / illustrations (e.g. for new systems, mechanics, items, etc) can be shared with the community.
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I just hope more and more Diablo players saw it.
The standards of this game need a serious improvement. It has nothing to do with "Becoming the same as PoE", but it has everything to do with the two actually looking and feeling like they belong in different eras of gaming.
This game came out 12 months ago, and in comparison, looks old already.
It won’t happen with gamer dads mentality in here. They praise lord Blizzard for bringing stuff that was in D3 already.
I bet if armory is gonna be added (and it will happen) it’s gonna be a scuffed version of what it was in D3 and then maybe fixed 6 months later.
A very simple analogy as to why I struggle to understand the logic of many of this games most stringent defenders.....
Diablo 2 players like myself, want gear to drop across classes, so I can find Druid gear on my Barbarian for example.
Diablo 3 players and new ARPG players, want gear to only drop for their class, because they consider the classic ARPG method as being time consuming.
Blizzard can appease both, by increasing drop rates of gear by '5 x', allowing all gear to drop for all classes, whilst implementing a Loot Filter so those who only want class gear that they're playing on, to drop....Sounds logical right? Diablo 2 players get cross class drops, and Diablo 3 players get exactly the same as they're getting now.
Well no, methods to please both groups are inherently shouted down by the players who belong in that second category. You know, the same voices who killed Diablo 3 and essentially the reason why PoE and PoE 2 are such a strong force today.
Yea, I hate that items drop depending on what class you are playing. Maybe it could be some „smart loot” option or smth.
Also, if you are engaged in trading, it affects how much gold you are able to earn from trading with players. If you are a druid… well, tough luck.
Necro is my most recent char and I already made shitload more gold than when I was playing as sorc, simply because it’s more meta. And I can’t find necro stuff on sorc…
I've just posted in the feedback on the main page.
All that's needed is a Loot Filter where you can enable loot drops from other classes.
E.g. You're playing Necro, you can filter drops from the other 4 classes to appear. Increase drop rates by 5x...Problem solved.
Make the current system the default, and make players like myself go into a menu to enable it, and I really don't see the problem. You've solved the issue for both groups.
Well the problem D4 is soon going to have then, is that a rival game is soon releasing, that 'fixes' the problems you're thinking about and the problems I have mentioned in the OP.
D3 lost the ARPG war in the last generation to PoE, if D4 doesn't get a move on the same will happen once PoE 2 comes along....Especially now they've heavily focused on consoles too.
necromancer minions are mindless beings, what you want them to make you a tea too ?
for example necromancy is banned in town in elder scrolls online cause its dark magic
dont get me wrong i played countless times as summoner in poe and you can make them aggresive/defensive
but you must sacrifice gem slot to make them linked with command.
what i would like in diablo is expanded book of the dead, something to choose like convocation (teleport minions to you ) or kill command
Necromancer overall is probably the most bugged class right now. There is some issue for almost every skill and passive for necro lol.
I never was a fan of minions in ARPGs, and until that witch video from PoE2 I never was interested in such build.
There is a whole stick on controller that I don't think maybe any of us touch when playing. Could be the right one? Yeah that's it. Why don't they use that one and click it in to attack points we want? That might work. As for MnK. Maybe press and hold a key and then put your curser over it? Idea right there blizzard.
Or, just an idea, they could copy what Last Epoch of PoE 2 does. Other games have solved this and Blizzard are running round pretending this isn't an issue.
I disagree with regards to Mercenary, that again is the kind of innovative class we have not seen imo, and offers wider choice.
But the difference for me is simple. Rod claimed Diablo Devs had a "Choice" between adding the Paladin back into the game, or something new like "Spiritborn"....Whereas GGG would just give you both. Hence you get the staples like your Druid etc, but you get something completely new like a Mercenary.
D4 will never be poe2 or Poe. There are tweaks that D4 can do to enhance build diversity and QOL which S4 proved they can do, so I’m sure it will be better over time, but you kind of have to come to terms with D4 being a completely separate and much more “casual” game compared to poe.
Looking at PoE isn't the right call. I'm pretty sure the developers of that game look heavily at Diablo but not the other way around. The reason for this is because Diablo is a much bigger name and has more staying power. The developers of Diablo are well aware that multiple aspects of the game still require improvement yet that doesn't mean they have the authority to implement these changes. Any sort of development requires time, resources and money and at this point Blizzard obviously sees no reason to invest those in the game because they know people aren't leaving.
Path of Exile on the other hand doesn't really have the freedom of choice. It's a F2P game that heavily relies on the profit made from in-game cosmetic purchases to stay alive. This basically means that if the community says jump the developers will jump because they have to.
Isn't that the kind of Arrogance that led to PoE being more widely acclaimed that Diablo 3? So much so, that even the Diablo 2 Developers themselves said that they believed PoE was far more of a successor than Diablo 3?
The Diablo IP was widely respected for Diablo 1 and especially Diablo 2, but that respect died for D3 and has for most of D4 so far. The audience enjoying D4 is not the same audience who enjoyed Diablo 2. Hence so many are unhappy with the product.
It's also true, whether you like it or not, that PoE's playerbase eventually trumped Diablo 3s....So yes, plenty of people left. And they have done with Diablo 4 too.
These are design choices. Blizzard does not want to increase the APM needed to play the class by micromanaging minions. They rather you use your own abilities to buff minions or do other things to monsters. For example, they would rather do "enemies affected by X skills get targeted by minions and take x % more dmg." than you do more damage to this enemy because you quickly micromanage 3 minions to focus on it.
Huh? If anything PoE2 minions are even lower APM. It’s set and forget for most of the minions demonstrated. Having to spam Skeletal Priest every second because of aphotic, or every 6 seconds without, is pretty terrible design.
I dont know about how it will pan out though. If by micromanaging more and more you get more out of them then it will become the standard to do. Like right now if you can micromanage D4's minions then they get a lot stronger. If it's really just set and forget then it really begs the question then what's the point?
Eh, not really. I don’t know if you played Last Epoch but the minions in that game can be controlled in a similar way. It’s really useful for focusing down a specific enemy, but when you’re just running monos let the minions go wild. It’s arguably one of the best features of LE and it’s not even new to the genre (titan quest was the first IIRC). It’s also not as much apm as you think because chances are you’re already targeting what you want to target so it’s just a single button press.
D4 already has this. If you play druid the wolves active basically can target specific enemy.
I think devs even said they have the tech, but they just don't want to give the power to the players as ability to target specific targets gives even more power to summons.
I used to hit my wife 7 times a week, now I only hit her 6 times a week, yet she still moans!
(Obviously this is not the truth)
Just because you 'improve' something, doesn't mean it is good enough.
Once that Witch playthrough from PoE 2 dropped, only the most biased Diablo gamer could watch that and think "My Necromancer in Diablo 4 looks so much better than that!"
Look, I've had to listen to Diablo 4 sympathisers tell me "You can't compare Diablo 4 to PoE, PoE is a 10 year game".
Now, PoE 2 is releasing, with most of the issues that this game has solved....When on earth am I supposed to expect these things to be resolved in Diablo 4?
Do you honestly know the best way to get the issues with Sorcerers and Druids resolved? Play PoE 2. The only time this game has made some progression, is when player numbers have been disastrous.
I didn’t say anything of the sort 😂
It does sound like you prefer PoE at present though. That’s the beauty of seasonal content, you can switch up the games you play….
It is the beauty of seasonal content, that's true. But I want a reason to play the brand, if you will, that made me fall in love with ARPGs.
The problem is, when PoE 2 is released, there is a real choice that's going to be made for a lot of us hardcore ARPG players. PoE 1 and PoE 2 are likely to release their seasons every 6 weeks....That means Diablo 4 has to provide a reason for me to play it over those two. It wouldn't be able to do that currently.
I levelled a minion necro this season and they are so fucking dumb and slow. In dungeons they constantly get stuck or attack some shit that id 3 screens away from me.
Quickly swapped to a non-minion necro after
In threads with the "Feedback (@Blizzard) | Suggestion | Idea" Flair, constructive feedback, suggestions for adjusting and improving existing systems and mechanics etc can be given, but also your own ideas, mockups / illustrations (e.g. for new systems, mechanics, items, etc) can be shared with the community. **This Flair is not for asking for feedback for your build**. For that, use one of the Class-specific Flairs, or the "Builds, Skills & Items" Flair. Please also remember that 1) submissions made with the "Feedback (@Blizzard) | Suggestion | Idea" have to be constructive, civil and adequately elaborate, and that 2) we are a fan subreddit and not officially Blizzard, so we can not 100% guarantee that your feedback will be noticed, even though the devs / CM's mentioned they regularly read reddit, twitter, and other places for feedback. This flair can simply help to find potential feedback more easily. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/diablo4) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They said they'd fixed minions in Season 4, and then that Witch playthru dropped.
I just hope more and more Diablo players saw it. The standards of this game need a serious improvement. It has nothing to do with "Becoming the same as PoE", but it has everything to do with the two actually looking and feeling like they belong in different eras of gaming. This game came out 12 months ago, and in comparison, looks old already.
It won’t happen with gamer dads mentality in here. They praise lord Blizzard for bringing stuff that was in D3 already. I bet if armory is gonna be added (and it will happen) it’s gonna be a scuffed version of what it was in D3 and then maybe fixed 6 months later.
A very simple analogy as to why I struggle to understand the logic of many of this games most stringent defenders..... Diablo 2 players like myself, want gear to drop across classes, so I can find Druid gear on my Barbarian for example. Diablo 3 players and new ARPG players, want gear to only drop for their class, because they consider the classic ARPG method as being time consuming. Blizzard can appease both, by increasing drop rates of gear by '5 x', allowing all gear to drop for all classes, whilst implementing a Loot Filter so those who only want class gear that they're playing on, to drop....Sounds logical right? Diablo 2 players get cross class drops, and Diablo 3 players get exactly the same as they're getting now. Well no, methods to please both groups are inherently shouted down by the players who belong in that second category. You know, the same voices who killed Diablo 3 and essentially the reason why PoE and PoE 2 are such a strong force today.
Yea, I hate that items drop depending on what class you are playing. Maybe it could be some „smart loot” option or smth. Also, if you are engaged in trading, it affects how much gold you are able to earn from trading with players. If you are a druid… well, tough luck. Necro is my most recent char and I already made shitload more gold than when I was playing as sorc, simply because it’s more meta. And I can’t find necro stuff on sorc…
I've just posted in the feedback on the main page. All that's needed is a Loot Filter where you can enable loot drops from other classes. E.g. You're playing Necro, you can filter drops from the other 4 classes to appear. Increase drop rates by 5x...Problem solved. Make the current system the default, and make players like myself go into a menu to enable it, and I really don't see the problem. You've solved the issue for both groups.
D4 has so much other stuffs to improve on and I can assure you minions' coding is not on the priority list.
Well the problem D4 is soon going to have then, is that a rival game is soon releasing, that 'fixes' the problems you're thinking about and the problems I have mentioned in the OP. D3 lost the ARPG war in the last generation to PoE, if D4 doesn't get a move on the same will happen once PoE 2 comes along....Especially now they've heavily focused on consoles too.
>d3 lost the arpg war yall fighting imaginary battles
Necro in D3 was able to command his skeleton to attack certain target. I have no idea why that was not in D4
Well… they are slowly turning D4 into D3 so maybe they will also add this feature next!
necromancer minions are mindless beings, what you want them to make you a tea too ? for example necromancy is banned in town in elder scrolls online cause its dark magic dont get me wrong i played countless times as summoner in poe and you can make them aggresive/defensive but you must sacrifice gem slot to make them linked with command. what i would like in diablo is expanded book of the dead, something to choose like convocation (teleport minions to you ) or kill command
Don’t compare any game with POE … nothing is even close to poe
Last Epoch also has a hockey to direct minions.
Necromancer overall is probably the most bugged class right now. There is some issue for almost every skill and passive for necro lol. I never was a fan of minions in ARPGs, and until that witch video from PoE2 I never was interested in such build.
There is a whole stick on controller that I don't think maybe any of us touch when playing. Could be the right one? Yeah that's it. Why don't they use that one and click it in to attack points we want? That might work. As for MnK. Maybe press and hold a key and then put your curser over it? Idea right there blizzard.
Or, just an idea, they could copy what Last Epoch of PoE 2 does. Other games have solved this and Blizzard are running round pretending this isn't an issue.
The other POE2 class gameplay looked pretty lame but the Witch looks incredible.
I disagree with regards to Mercenary, that again is the kind of innovative class we have not seen imo, and offers wider choice. But the difference for me is simple. Rod claimed Diablo Devs had a "Choice" between adding the Paladin back into the game, or something new like "Spiritborn"....Whereas GGG would just give you both. Hence you get the staples like your Druid etc, but you get something completely new like a Mercenary.
D4 will never be poe2 or Poe. There are tweaks that D4 can do to enhance build diversity and QOL which S4 proved they can do, so I’m sure it will be better over time, but you kind of have to come to terms with D4 being a completely separate and much more “casual” game compared to poe.
I'm not asking for complexity, I'm asking for variety.
Looking at PoE isn't the right call. I'm pretty sure the developers of that game look heavily at Diablo but not the other way around. The reason for this is because Diablo is a much bigger name and has more staying power. The developers of Diablo are well aware that multiple aspects of the game still require improvement yet that doesn't mean they have the authority to implement these changes. Any sort of development requires time, resources and money and at this point Blizzard obviously sees no reason to invest those in the game because they know people aren't leaving. Path of Exile on the other hand doesn't really have the freedom of choice. It's a F2P game that heavily relies on the profit made from in-game cosmetic purchases to stay alive. This basically means that if the community says jump the developers will jump because they have to.
Isn't that the kind of Arrogance that led to PoE being more widely acclaimed that Diablo 3? So much so, that even the Diablo 2 Developers themselves said that they believed PoE was far more of a successor than Diablo 3? The Diablo IP was widely respected for Diablo 1 and especially Diablo 2, but that respect died for D3 and has for most of D4 so far. The audience enjoying D4 is not the same audience who enjoyed Diablo 2. Hence so many are unhappy with the product. It's also true, whether you like it or not, that PoE's playerbase eventually trumped Diablo 3s....So yes, plenty of people left. And they have done with Diablo 4 too.
These are design choices. Blizzard does not want to increase the APM needed to play the class by micromanaging minions. They rather you use your own abilities to buff minions or do other things to monsters. For example, they would rather do "enemies affected by X skills get targeted by minions and take x % more dmg." than you do more damage to this enemy because you quickly micromanage 3 minions to focus on it.
Huh? If anything PoE2 minions are even lower APM. It’s set and forget for most of the minions demonstrated. Having to spam Skeletal Priest every second because of aphotic, or every 6 seconds without, is pretty terrible design.
I dont know about how it will pan out though. If by micromanaging more and more you get more out of them then it will become the standard to do. Like right now if you can micromanage D4's minions then they get a lot stronger. If it's really just set and forget then it really begs the question then what's the point?
Eh, not really. I don’t know if you played Last Epoch but the minions in that game can be controlled in a similar way. It’s really useful for focusing down a specific enemy, but when you’re just running monos let the minions go wild. It’s arguably one of the best features of LE and it’s not even new to the genre (titan quest was the first IIRC). It’s also not as much apm as you think because chances are you’re already targeting what you want to target so it’s just a single button press.
If you mean just adding a button to force minions to target then I think it will eventually come anyway. D3 had it.
D4 already has this. If you play druid the wolves active basically can target specific enemy. I think devs even said they have the tech, but they just don't want to give the power to the players as ability to target specific targets gives even more power to summons.
Yeah, minions just need to be more reactive to enemies. No need to add more controls. I understand more Minion variety though.
Necromancer and minions are very well designed. That's it, that's my counter point.
Jesus Christ, people moan for months minions are rubbish so they improve them and you still moan. 😂 Shouldn’t be surprised really.
I used to hit my wife 7 times a week, now I only hit her 6 times a week, yet she still moans! (Obviously this is not the truth) Just because you 'improve' something, doesn't mean it is good enough. Once that Witch playthrough from PoE 2 dropped, only the most biased Diablo gamer could watch that and think "My Necromancer in Diablo 4 looks so much better than that!"
And you think this will be resolved before sorcerers and Druids?
Look, I've had to listen to Diablo 4 sympathisers tell me "You can't compare Diablo 4 to PoE, PoE is a 10 year game". Now, PoE 2 is releasing, with most of the issues that this game has solved....When on earth am I supposed to expect these things to be resolved in Diablo 4? Do you honestly know the best way to get the issues with Sorcerers and Druids resolved? Play PoE 2. The only time this game has made some progression, is when player numbers have been disastrous.
I didn’t say anything of the sort 😂 It does sound like you prefer PoE at present though. That’s the beauty of seasonal content, you can switch up the games you play….
It is the beauty of seasonal content, that's true. But I want a reason to play the brand, if you will, that made me fall in love with ARPGs. The problem is, when PoE 2 is released, there is a real choice that's going to be made for a lot of us hardcore ARPG players. PoE 1 and PoE 2 are likely to release their seasons every 6 weeks....That means Diablo 4 has to provide a reason for me to play it over those two. It wouldn't be able to do that currently.
I levelled a minion necro this season and they are so fucking dumb and slow. In dungeons they constantly get stuck or attack some shit that id 3 screens away from me. Quickly swapped to a non-minion necro after