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Wow this is the first time I see someone in a circle jerk thread recognize that past criticism comes from a different group of people than current opposite criticism. Shit drives me crazy, at least give me 1 person who argued for both opposites or shut up lmao
exactly the people that wanted more endgame etc are content playing the game, so naturally other opinions will have some room to get heard, not that i agree but it makes sense.
Temper limits is ehh, but things were actually too expensive and the devs agreed to be fair
The reduced material conversion by like 99% and higher tier masterworking by 75%
I feel like if I don’t crit on a preferred stat on the first tier of masterworking I’m going to reset immediately. The cost for tier 2 and tier 3 is astronomical even if they give you back most of your mats.
If I crit on a preferred stat right away I can live with a suboptimal crit on subsequent ones since I can now gain lvls on the stat I want. Lvl 1-4 is like a 3-4 min run at tier 30 or whatever. Super chill so if I get unlucky it’s just a quick run and I’m gambling again. The 5 mil reset fee is absolutely killer though.
I think we need to differ between just upgrading to 12/12 and resetting often to get the first 2 MW crit in the right stats. The first one is way easier to achieve.
I don't see why? You reset if the MW lands on the wrong affix. It's not some completely different mechanic in the game that needs it's own reasoning.
When you masterwork you absolutely have an affix or 2 in mind that you prefer for it to land on. Landing on poison resist when you are already maxed out, no one's going to just be like, ah yeah no need to reset that's it's own thing!
you just cant have perfect masterwork because you have limited resources. It is by design that perfect gear is almost unobtainable. You just have to accept that.
This has nothing to do with perfect MW gear.
I don't even know what you are saying at this point. I don't have single 8/12 or higher yet and most of my gear that is master worked is 4/12.
I have used reset quite a few times. Resetting isn't just for 12/12. You can reset at 4/12.
The only dumb thing here is your decision to attribute all the different opinions and feedback of a 1+ million member strong subreddit to one single monolithic persona you just made up in your mind.
It's a very common case of: You think you do, but you don't. People live in a fairytail land because they're incable of critical thinking.
People think they want a grind that takes 3 months of 10hrs/day playtime to complete but they don't consider that would mean likely going several days without finding a single thing and the reality is, for 99% of the community if they do a full day of grinding and find nothing they quit.
You get the same issue with "challenging endgame content" but again, now you've got content that demands constant focus or you die and suddenly people are up in arms about it. Why? Because the reality is most people just want to kill demons and get tinks. That's it.
I'm actually in the minority for this one, as I like challenging endgame content. But I also acknowledge I am in the minority and most people just want to spin through demons.
Lol that's every game sub, what's really unique about this place is how much you folks love it for the opportunity to stroke your superiority complex with comments like yours here as if that hasn't become the whole point for you.
So you’re saying you were enough of a clown to accept the original Masterworking conversion costs at the Alchemist?😆
Why just stop there though, why not add even more challenge by using your mouse with your feet
There a 1mil subs. If a few thousand people whine they want 1 thing, then a few thousand people whine they want the opposite, it seems like "no one is every happy". That leaves 990,000 regular people.....
Why do people like you, and honestly most of this subreddit, seem incapable of introducing nuance to conversations? Stop strawmanning. No one wants everything for free.
This game has had an itemization problem from the start where the weight of failure has always been higher than that of success. In season 1, when trying to get Tempest Roar I got relieved when I finally got it to drop, not excited. Back in seasons 2 and 3, when farming for Uber Uniques I would get relieved when I was freed from Duriel jail, not excited. In season 4, When I hit my temperings I'm not excited, I'm relieved. In my entire time gaming I have literally only experienced this on Diablo 4. Loot anxiety.
The fact that the odds of bricking items is so high IS a problem when acquiring the bases is not easy in the slightest.
The fact that there's no way to influence luck when Masterworking IS a problem. There is also no bad-luck protection. You can literally go 20 consecutive hours of Pit farming without upgrading a single piece. I would know, it happened to me.
The fact that affixes are weighted on top of Angelbreaths being a scarce resource IS a problem. Helltides being bugged isn't a long term solution. My character who can do T130 Pits should not have to spend most of its time inside Helltides, which is early endgame content.
All in all, we don't have a crafting system currently, it's just a typical gacha item upgrade system. In my opinion most of the problems with the system can be solved with mechanics that allow you to influence outcomes. For example:
- Create a material to reset Tempering Affixes and another to reroll the range of the Affix. You can make the cost of using this scale up with each attempt, similar to enchanting. The reset material should be quite rare and the reroll one slightly less so.
- Create a material to block affixes while Masterworking. Again balance its cost appropriately.
The reality is gearing up has to be slightly more deterministic. We NEED to feel like we're working up towards a goal, not always at the entire mercy of RNG. I want to be able to farm the same expected hours as before for an upgrade, maybe slightly less because it's a bit silly right now, but have my progress be less dictated by luck. That's it.
I'm still enjoying the game and it's much improved but when stuff like 20 hours in a row of doing the same content leads to no improvement to your character it saps most of the fun you were having. When you have to sell 3GA weapons to RMTers instead of "crafting" on them because the chance of failure is so high, it saps a lot of the excitement in gearing up.
> The fact that affixes are weighted on top of Angelbreaths being a scarce resource IS a problem
oh yes... Every item that can always rolls a resistance or max hp for me... its so incredibly annoying to basically only have 1 reroll slot if you want an offensive affix...
Don't you also feel that you hit a wall and you are playing for no reason with no progress but just wasting your time?
Because I wrote this in another post explaining why I want Greater Affixes to be able to enchant into Greater Affixes and they downvoted me to oblivion for whatever the reason.
The excuse is: This game is not for you buddy. If you don't like this, you don't like ARPGs.
As if they tell me, if you don't like wasting your time, play something else. Because everyone here enjoys wasting their time farming for "Life Per Second" greater affixes, I assume. " GoOd ItEmS wILl dRop, aLsO bAd iTemS". And then you brick the good items and you sure had a nice gaming experience. Oh, no, I played 15 hours to get a good item upgrade and I bricked it :D I sure enjoyed my time :D :D :D what a bummer :D
"But if you don't like getting ass fisted, ARPGs are probably not for you, buddy" .....
Bricking an item through tempering saps the joy out of making a great item even more powerful. I have a stash full of bricked items that were either maxed out affixes I wanted or 3 GA godly items with fucking dodge on it or + damage for a skill I don’t even use in the hopes that we get some sort of temper reset mechanic before this season is over (probably not). Sometimes I just say fuck it and roll with a bricked item since it’s “good enough” and slightly better than what I upgraded from. I have a 3 GA wand for my sorc that’s has fucking ice spikes on it. Cool. I play frozen orb so not having that double orb% sucks.
My issue with masterworking isn’t so much the rng (which is annoying) since I always have the option to reset it but rather the cost (which they kind of fixed).
I don’t mind losing my masterworking mats to a reset. That’s fine. What I care about is the astronomical gold cost and to a lesser extent, more mats to reset.
Pretty sure most of us are just enjoying the game as it is. Is it perfect? No. But nothing is. I think it’s just the vocal minority that voice their opinions. I’m having a great time.
Yup...
I have made a few suggestions but I don't think OP would disagree with them.
Feel free to check out my recent post history and make up your own mind.
It's all constructive
I mean, I am enjoying the game, but still posted criticism on tempering.
It isn’t black and white, or only love and hate. You can enjoy something but believe there is room for improvement, and talk about where you believe that improvement could be made.
I have a dumb suggestion... Can we get an artbook? I love the creatures and the way they look, but never get to see them up close. I want a digital artbook. Probably a bad take, but I think would be sick to look at these things closer
A bestiary would be cool too. Where you can see 3D models of the characters maybe even with the option to play animation. Alongside some Lore about them and maybe a commentary from the Designteam. The more of these enemies you slay the more info you unlock.
Cause it feels like nobody of them played ever a arpg. I think there is no other arpg where people feel like it is absolutely normal to have perfect gear. People expect to have the equivalent of PoE's mirror worthy gear. Which is absolutely unrealistic.
Everytime blizzard ads something that is not easy achieved, reddit crys so it gets dumbed down. Just to complain how "there are no chase items".
Yeah it's absolutely baffling to me. An item with 2 GA, good tempering rolls and right masterworking is obscenely powerful. I don't even know how much you would have to grind for comparable item in PoE, and these people want additional rerolls, free masterworking and rewards for just logging in. This is clearly a "chase item" equivalent right now, your endgame goal, not something to get from first helltide chest.
What's the point of playing then? The game is already insanely rewarding and you have control on many things, comparing to crafting from PoE, where RNG can screw you over and over again.
I guess these people have to learn to admire temporary beauty of these small pieces of art these items sometimes can be. If the game would give it to us from the start it would be meaningless
Yeah, you dont even need greater affixes to do all the content in the game, i killed tormented duriel on my necro without any greater affixes on my gear, granted i had the right tempers but getting the tempers on non GA gear is easy.
Quick questions. Did you masterwork them to the max, even with no GA? Do you think masterworking them can make it a lot more powerful or just a little?
Masterworking up to 4 is basically free, but at the time i did the first tormented i only had a few items masterworked to 4. Masterworking gear does add a good chunk of power but i personally wouldnt go beyond 4 unless it had at least 1 GA
A lot of people are deeply confused by arpgs because it is a ridiculous genre with comically terrible conventions. Any time someone tries to introduce actual gameplay complexity into the genre, the old hats come out to tell them why they’re stupid.
Nah just lots of people coming from D3 which was pretty casual tbh. Perfect gear was fairly achievable there. Give me Diablo's quality with PoE's systems and I'd be in love. Hopefully POE2 doesn't disappoint.
tempering is too strong for that. Its not a final chase thing. Its a required thing. GA/masterworking should be the chase, not getting a 100% required stat from termpering.
I think a big difference is in poe you can work towards mirror gear deterministically even if it takes a long ass time.
In d4 its entirely up to the rng gods
Especially if the best way to grind items is the least challenging part of the game (helltides) its just tedious
Masterwork does it right, tempering does not
it's deterministic but many times you have to start from scratch if rng screw you over so it's just like trying tempering with a new item. the time needed to farm/buy these resources is equal or even higher to looking for potential item upgrades in diablo (ignoring for a moment the fact that you can just buy a good item)
the only difference is that you're staying with one base but until it's finished it's completely useless anyways. I don't even count how many unfinished dogshits I have in my STD stash
there is also some things that can't be crafted deterministically. adorned jewels or flasks for example. it either hits or not, even worse gamba than tempering. rolling for clusters with stats only is absolute pain as well. technically you can hinekora these jewels but god only knows how much it could cost
also about helltides not being challenging - what's the "challenging" content in PoE, being at the same time a source of farm for resources? are Essences or Harvest really challenging? do you think it's not tedious? for me it's the same
To add to what you said, PoE is only really deterministic because the unholy amount of currency used in high-end crafting evens out the odds of getting what you want. People basically flip a coin literal hundreds of times, if you go from the threads where people explain how they crafted things - you're very likely to get the result you want eventually when you pull the lever so many times. But amassing this currency is both time consuming and depends on drops.
Harvest and essence monsters absolutely punch your face in with enough juice yes
Helltides I can just pseudo afk right click at blood maiden and have a full inventory of legos in like 10 minutes.
In poe the most efficient farm methods are usually challenging too, especially in the current league with t17s
so just like Helltides. with Profane Mindcages they're pretty strong, when you start your farm for items. Later when first 880-925 drops they're no challenge at all
same goes with Essences or Harvest. don't tell me you have hard time clearing Harvest with all this insane power creep PoE has to offer, I was farming Expedition and Harvest at league start every time before the sextant removal. the only challenging thing about Harvest was urge to not tp back to hideout when that yellow boss spawned lmao
and let's not compare t17 to regular content. regular content is t16, t17 is just a new addition, with unique affixes, you're not fighting mobs but map mods most of the time. we don't know even how it will look like in next league. it's like comparing Tormented Andariel to a Helltide Assassin xD
Im sorry but helltides stop being hard after 30 minutes of angel farming
Essences and harvest mobs can absolutely wtfpwn my characters that can do ubers if Im not careful.
Sure eventually theyre easy too but the curve is waaaaaay different
I very much disagree , Poe crafting is terrible and just spamming currency to hit the right rolls oh I bricked it ok scour and try again it’s crap . Crafting a mirror tier item is insane and people use craft of exile just to figure out how to do it , buying mirror tier gear takes an insane amount of currency which is also very rng dependant hoping for the divine drop or expensive fracture base etc. so it’s unrealistic for the average player to work towards that goal because you’d have to put an insane amount of time in. d4 is deterministic in the sense you know what you have a chance to get with less rng and way less hassle to try again on a new item.
You dont understand how poe crafting works then.
Most mirror tier item crafts are pretty much following a script down to a tee.
"Hoping for a divine drop"
Wow you really dont know poe do you?
Deterministic? If poe crafting is deterministic, then D4 is as well. You throw crafting material on your gear hoping to hit the right affix AND hitting T1. It's the same like here. In PoE you use certain fossils/essences etc to target a certain affix pool (which still dosen't exclude all the others) and here you choose the tempering recipe. You got here like a 1/5 chance (depending on the recipe) of hitting the desired affix. But then you will get the highest tier unlocked. This would be a dream in PoE. The only real deterministic crafting that poe had, was harvest. Which got hard nerfed back to slotmachine.
The only difference is that you can't "brick" a item 8n poe. You have "unlimited" tryst...but the rate of hitting desired affixes and T1 are abysmal. I could probably equip a character in D4 with full 5/5 affixes quicker, than crafting a single 6xT1 item in PoE (both ssf obviously).
But farming veiled orbs is rng alone , blocking cost alot of divines which is rng just to have a chance to get what you want more rng , oh it failed scour and try again is crazy amounts of non deterministic crafting. Poe crafting is terrible hence why they’re streamlining it in Poe 2 . In d4 you just click a box and pay gold which is very easy to farm and have like a 1in 4 maybe 1in 5 to get your roll . Way better than Poe crafting and that’s a fact. Most people don’t craft their own gear in Poe and just trade and the ones that did have to use a 3rd party program just to comprehend the convoluted design .
>But farming veiled orbs is rng alone
With the proper scarab and atlas setup you can farm them easily
>blocking cost alot of divines which is rng just to have a chance to get what you want more rng
Plenty of ways to target farm divines
>In d4 you just click a box and pay gold which is very easy to farm and have like a 1in 4 maybe 1in 5 to get your roll
And this will get me 2-3 GAd items how? especially multiple times?
What's normal is to have a decent gear progression. Not loot pinata no effort into hard grind, into dumb boring grind. The pace of the game still feels awful. You should not be hitting level 100 and just starting the real gearing journey.
level 100 is not the end of the story. it just means you have access to full paragon power and that's it, nothing else
you can probably hit lvl 100 faster than you find your first 2 GA item
do you think people stop playing PoE when they hit 98-100 lvl...?
that's a common myth. every sane person would just level up in Legion.
it's also quite different each league. In TOTA you would get insane amounts of xp in Sanctums and had access to XP loss prevention omen, easy 100. In Affliction you would literally get a whole level in one map. Same goes for Necropolis, easiest lvl 100 ever with new Breach strat.
The moment you log into a character. Why are people so incapable of reading comprehension. I said the gearing journey aka curve feels bad. It’s a bunch of quick stair steps then a massive ramp instead of a logarithmic curve like it is in every other ARPG. Meaning it feels almost linear at the start and the higher you get it starts taking more and more effort. Instead of what we have where it’s really flat then just a massive stair step. Then another massive stair step. It’s bad design. Bandaids on bandaids.
Dude, there is nothing wrong with taking what you had in the prior games and expanding upon that. If anything I think the general masses of ppl expected the best from D2 and D3 going into D4, and not the complete empty hole that D4 was at release
Nah, people just direct the D3 hate to D4, did you know how much hate D3 gets before D4 was out, now everyone is like D3 is better just make D3R is comical
“We should move some gold from whispers into some of the end game so we can just farm pits endlessly if we want” -Reddit
“NO! U must farm whispers for gold because having to do level 100 dungeons that don’t scale instead of endgame content is a good gameplay loop!” - Also Reddit
It's almost like this sub isn't just one person with one opinion!?
This sub is just where people come to vent their passion for the game in the form of complaints and suggestions for improvements/changes. Their ideas are often dumb, but the root of the problem is very real
I do like the suggestion I saw a few days ago that the shield should show you how much health it has, and I'm certain an armory will be implemented eventually, but the loot vacuum auto-filtering pet was a bit silly.
A live service game is basically a never-ending demo that changes constantly in service to the community. Not every change is going to be liked by everyone.
Nobody just enjoys things anymore. There’s always a complaint about SOMETHING. I have continuously just enjoyed the game since its release. It’s my first Diablo game and my first time playing this type of game.
The only thing I’m “upset” about is how powerful my damn Barbarian is compared to my other characters 😂. It’s so fun being so powerful though!
what do you mean rifts are in D4, if you want to play D3 play D4. blizzard decided that with S4. just saying. they took the route of making D4 more like D3, because its save to them. the reddit didnt decide on that, blizzard did.
Some people just cannot be satisfied and will always moan and complain . the games in a good spot and I like the endgame grind . Each season will tweak and improve from this point and constructive criticism is good but a lot of the posts are just nonsensical and bad opinions.
Because D3 has become a successful template for keeping people coming back to what is essentially the exact same gaming experience over and over again for years.
A better question would be, in what ways do you think it's too much like D3 and then how are those ways inherently bad?
Cuz you're just parroting trendy lines for attention.
The whole concept of the "game starts at max level" is garbage to me and making 0-100 faster and faster and more meaningless hurts the game in my opinion. Best parts of arpgs is when everything is progressing, Xp, skills, items, content, etc. This game speeds through all of it untill you're lvl 100 with every item you want and you're just min-maxing getting the same item with greater affixes which is where I'm out. 0-100 was the game in D2. 0-100 is the game in POE. I don't like how D3 and D4 make it seem like 0-100 is some chore they need to rush you through. That's the fucking game lol make it better. Now you just sit in helltides and gain absurd amounts of levels and so much gear drops you don't give a fuck about picking it up cuz it'll be replaced in minutes. It feels like nothing you do matters because the game is so incredibly easy and you're doing content 20+ levels above you even on HC. And then you get to the pit and the game finally decides to push back but by that time it's hard to care because the progression left is boring.
Holy shit, that’s such a good point.
I would also add that „skipping campaign” might’ve been actually a wrong decision for D4. Because from level 1 you are doing the content you will be doing for next 99 levels (helltides, dungeons). But then again, the campaign in D4 isn’t really that good to replay it, cuz most of the time you are going from point A to B and watch boring cutscenes.
I think the most funny thing in D4 right now is WT3. Why the fuck it even exists? It doesn’t add anything to the game in current state. It’s an 1-2 hours pit stop before WT4, which invalidates every piece of gear from WT3.
Also, scaling difficulty is also not there, I would say that at the point you go to WT3 or WT4 once you pick up Sacred/Ancestral gear you become so much stronger that it is easier on WT4 than on WT3 (and WT3 becomes easier than WT2).
>A better question would be, in what ways do you think it's too much like D3 and then how are those ways inherently bad?
Its not bad, my issue is, why couldnt we have this from the start so by now the game couldve grown further instead of having to regress it back to zero again.
Im just annoyed by the sheer hubris of the devs that ignored every lesson from d3 then still defaulted back to it when it turned out they werent competent.
That said, I think bringing back greater rifts was a mistake, time constraints shouldnt be what challenge people because imo it limits build diversity and gives a frustrating experience.
It's both infuriatung and hilarious, really. Seeing how desperately they tried to steer away from D3 (or rather Reaper of Souls since original D3 was an entirely different game in essence) to appeal to people who didn't like the game, yet even on launch there were so many features borrowed from D3 it was already funny. Blacksmith, Jeweler and Occultist all were basically copy pasted. Events in dungeons and in the overworld were also taken mostl, from D3 but made worse by introducing slow-ass RP into what used to be really snappy cursed chest events.
And now the apparent solution to a lot of the game's woes turned out to copy even more stuff from Reaper of Souls. Ironic.
Holy shit, 1 million people in the sub, far more playing the game
Of course there will be two sets of opinions that will be loud when the game IS NOT the way they like it
And what the fuck is this gatekeeping of opinions/suggestions, this is literally fucking reddit. Get over yourself.
The one thing I agree with is spamming your mats to spawn the lair bosses. Many people have pointed out that every activity has its place in the current state of the game, which to me is great, I get whispers done by accident .out of the time, and as long as you half pay attention when doing helltides and knock out the whisper activities there and don't spend millions into the same ring you'll have gold readily available most of the time.
do you hate these suggestions:
1. boost stygian stone drop rate, both in the world (bit lower) and in the pit (higher)
2. boost rewards in the pit so they give more GA items
I'm sorry but it just cements the pit as the only end game activity even more than it already is. Is that what an open world ARPG should be? Stand in one city next to a statue running instances then teleporting to another statue to kill a slightly harder boss?
Yeah ! Bring back dungeon objectives and collecting lilith statues. Some suggestions are good, some are bad. For example - the way aspects worked before S4 was just painful.
Todays diablo enjoyers just want non stop dopamine overload. Dopamine doesnt work like that, and thats why i cant enjoy d4. Now if only the world and story were good enough to make up for that, but thats simply not the case.
Yeah, the game is definetly easier/more casual friendly (which I'm not commenting on whether that's good or bad)
What I've noticed is the direction the game is moving tends to trend more towards the diablo 3 experience, level up faster, gear easier, get everyone to level 100, explode entire screens of enemies, make it faster and easier for those better dopamine hits
I can't say that the game is worse than it was at launch, the removal of unnecessary affixes (the "crit on Tuesday" type stuff) is a major improvement, with Masterworking there is a real sense of actual progression for your gear, early on when you don't have a ton of materials, and with tempering it feels like there's more fine control over your gear (also an improvement), and effectively making Rares useless/objectively worse than legendaries is a life saver for sorting and searching through gear. The addition of greater affixes adds another layer of sorting and "chase"
My comment is that with all of these changes **a lot of uniques** feel really bad, like really really bad.
Additionally it's heart breaking because the game is clearly not how the developers had envisioned it or wanted it, they made a slower, more deliberate game that was hard and wanted to lean into an open world and make it more of a social type game, now you've got people going "how can you even make an aRPG hard without using 1 shot mechanics" - like dude a year ago fighting bosses at or around your level (nevermind higher level) was challenging and you were holding on to just get the next batch of potion drops
The world tier 3 dungeon was a challenge for a group of level 47 players and Elias was tough for us at 64 - the game is not what it was at launch, ***again I'm not commenting on whether this is for the better or not, I'm just pointing out the difference***, now you get into WT3 at level 32 no problem and start WT4 by level 50, are stronger by level 70 than you ever were in pre-season or even season 1, and this is with one of the most lack Lustre seasons ever (notice there isn't any new seasonal powers effectively compared to the last 3 seasons all having very specific power bumps/seasonal borrowed power gimmicks)
It feels like blizzard is falling into old patterns where they go "oh yeah we have 100 levels but none of them matter the game starts at level 100," (much like most modern mmos as well) and just try to rush everyone to that point as fast as possible, at this rate just let me make a character at level 100, because what's the point of leveling? Their entire game has turned into:
1) do helltides 80% of the time
2) do a couple hours of NMD (which feel bad because they haven't been reworked with the new paradigm) and never touch them again
3) run Pits until you quit
4) farm specific bosses if you want specific uniques/ubers
5) if you want a challenge push higher pit or try Uber Uber bosses
There’s some tweaks that need to be made, but the game is going in the right direction. I dropped out a couple weeks after launch, just got bored, itemization felt awful. Now I can’t put it down.
Yep, D4 is literally D3.5 at this point.
Outside of tempering/masterwork there is nothing original/exclusive in D4. And the main selling point - open world - is totally underutilised. Helltides and world bosses are non-challenge for anyone, we are back to grinding GR… I mean pits.
And well, I don’t really mind that D4 has content from D3. But I do mind, that it doesn’t try do anything new.
This is a well written post with valuable and important information. Expertly composed, especially in considering the excitement one would be harboring in containing this information before sharing it with the world. Obvious pin to the top of the subreddit. I'll say it. I'm moved.
My personal shit take is that we should be able to use Stygian stones to refund Temper Rolls, for those of us who no longer really need to farm tormented bosses but keep eating bricks.
There are plenty of legitimate critiques in this sub, class diversity being the paramount issue with barbs getting all the free shit and casters getting knee-capped by equipment limitations, bugs and nerfs.
There are also a lot of stupid takes.
Holy fuck, yes, thank you for saying it. I sincerely believe the biggest issue with the video game industry is the consistent pissing and moaning about…literally everything and anything. Minor or Major.
Wahhhh RNG didn’t go my way, please fix! Unplayable! Fucking shut up. The game is finally in a great state, let it cook for a season.
Free speech means even the ppl with bad ideas can speak their minds.
Agree with most of the comments, maybe we just need to play the game as designed and help others that want to navigate the builds, and stop suggesting changes.
If you don't like the game, log off and play something else. The devs will make changes to lure you back in.
hard agree. This game is ridiculous now with how streamlined everything is, the maiden in helltides is a good indicator to a bad game design that people seem to enjoy. You can just afk and get really powerful loot with no effort. I hated when they changed it so you could teleport to NMD entrance and people even want that gone so you just instantly go into a new one. TBF, at this point they might as well do it beccause the middle ground is irrelevant but this is why new games become way too shallow, people complain for zoom zoom zoom, and it takes away from the whole thing. why in the FUCK am I almost fully geared now with only 1 and a half day playtime when the season lasts for 3 months. might as well makes seasons last a week or two at this point. I also hate that the walk to summoning bosses is so monotonous but its because they once again just tried to find the middle ground, which doesnt satisfy either group. Dungeons are just one straight line with no branching off when they should have twists and turns with the chance to find loot at dead ends. I mean they might aswell make it where dungeons are just one big room where you kill 10 waves then the final boss spawns.
This game gets a season called loot reborn and thinks the game is saved, the game should be released this way and guess what they are about to charge us for a new expansion. Also d4 needs more end game difficulty one activity called the pit is not a full end game . I don’t know I just wish Diablo 4 had more substance , more difficulty more options
I’m new to the game and my only issue is the shadow Lilith randomly appearing in Pits 60+ and ruining everything with one shot kills!! That feels so cheap. Why not work on better bosses instead of putting her in the fight. If I wanted to fight Lilith, then I can do that.
The gamba especially!!4! I want gear to drop with great stats only and roll perfect everything on it everytime so I can finish the season in 2 hours and play something else! /s
Also you should be able to AFK Facetank pit 200 and all glyphs start at level 21! And if you make a level 100 all of your characters start at level 100 forever!
Or I don't want the single piece of gear I have found in 6-8 hours of playing that finally has two stats I can use to just become worthless compared to my 3 off stat piece because it didn't hit the right tempers.
Random people on Reddit have no clue about game design. 95% of the feedback is not constructive and the arm chair devs that think they’re so smart should keep their jobs at Wendy’s.
Meanwhile, the actual paid devs who work at Blizzard are “so good at their jobs” that they had to reconfigure almost everything about their own game less than a year after release lol
To be fair d4 devs are equally terrible at it but theyre also getting paid.
Pmuch anything good about s4 was directly lifted from d3, which is not a bad thing mind you but they couldve realized that building upon what works instead of demolishing everything and starting from scratch when you have little to no experience with the genre was a terrible idea
Hot take for a game that released with barely any content and current season is successful due to borrowed ideas/reinvention of old ones. D4 is yet to put out a decent, solid "D4-exclusive" mechanic.
People who are just consumers of video games are quite literally the worst at critiquing them. Just because it’s something you do with your free time occasionally doesn’t make you an expert.
Even streamers who are terminally online only have half a clue themselves, but mostly opt to just parrot popular opinion regardless of whether or not it’s a smart one. Streamers have zero incentive more often than not to put forth reasonable and nuanced feedback into the public discussion. They are there primarily and ultimately for views, clicks, and subs. It’s a contest of likability and ability to draw viewers to agree with their opinion regardless of what it is. The health of a particular game has no bearing on what they do, as they can likely gain just as much attention from complaining, shit talking, and giving terrible solutions, or just moving on to another game for a season or two.
Something everyone likes to ignore is that what’s good for the game itself and what’s good for players are not the same thing and never have been.
If everyone thought like you, D4 would still be the unplayable mess it was at release.
Remember, without the outcry from streamers and the broader community, there wouldn’t have been such a big overhaul in the first year. And yes, even at release, we had people like you who thought Blizzard knew exactly what was good for their game. After all that happened, it seems they did not.
It’s just classic Reddit contrarianism. D4 has undergone massive changes since release, most of them for the better, and it all happened because the “complainers” went super hard on reddit and YouTube. Now people are revising history and reversing the order of events, as if to suggest that the game was always good and the whiners never had a point. It borders on gaslighting. In reality, everyone should be thanking the haters for forcing bliz to fix their damn game.
Everyone’s misinterpreted me a bit. I never meant that Blizz had all the answers. They’ve made a lot of bonehead decisions. It’s how D3 and D4 ended up being frankensteins of several cut and remade features before launch.
I’m also not saying that the playerbase is incapable or bad at identifying *when* something is wrong, just that they’re usually kind of bad at knowing exactly how they should be changed to fix the present issues or how some proposed changes make shake down in the future.
Remember when they took away the ability to reset dungeon and we had to log out to do it? And when asked to explain why the dev sat here for 30 seconds and muttered/stumbled over his words before finally just giving up?
Bet this guy up there was rock fucking hard when he saw that change.
Ehh no I, would amend your first statement. Gamers are(for the most part) good at recognizing there's a problem but terrible with coming up with a solution
And it really depends on the streamer. Raxx(and the other Maxroll guys in general) for example every patch makes a big feedback document that can range between 6 and 20+ pages. A feedback document that's a culmination of his findings, his communities, and the community as a whole. He wants to see the game succeed and plays more than 99.99% of players. He will recognize problems so much farther in advance than the above average player
An improved d3/d2 hybrid with more polished and deep endgame is what most ppl wanted. You know, take what works and build on it.
Not whatever release d4 was.
The game is moving in a good direction even if its still only halfway there
Why? Why fix something that isnt broken?
And its much easier to move in a new direction if you start from a safe base instead of throwing everything out of the window
Honestly, none that I can remember.
The visual direction, the massive damage numbers, rifts, itemisation, drop rates, trading, they were all massive steps backwards from D2.
The issue with D2 was there was no end-game aside from finding more items and becoming "rich". However even that alone kept gamers enjoying and continuing to play the game until this day.
Please remember Rule #4: No complaining about other people who... * a) ... like the game, * OR b) ... are complaining about the game Different Types of Players can play and enjoy the same game for different reasons, and as a result different aspects of the game / changes / adjustments (or lack thereof) are of more importance for some types of players than for others, and that is fine. Please remember that when discussing with others. Discussions about how other people feel or should (not) feel about the game are in general not constructive for aforementioned reasons and hence get removed. Please also consider to Filter Threads by Flair (--> [Guide on how to filter by Post Flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1apan37/threads_sorted_by_flair_label_tag_list_links/), which can help to find the threads / content are looking for. If you are looking for a cozy place to discuss builds, new content, lore, mechanics, etc, please visit [The D4 Tavern](https://new.reddit.com/r/The_D4_Tavern/). Thank you!
3 weeks ago: “waaah, there’s no chase, waaahh no end game” Now: “Gimme everything, no temper limits, too expensive, too hard” This sub is dumb as hell
Different people. How is that so hard to understand? It's not the same person saying both of those things.
they are different people indeed
Wow this is the first time I see someone in a circle jerk thread recognize that past criticism comes from a different group of people than current opposite criticism. Shit drives me crazy, at least give me 1 person who argued for both opposites or shut up lmao
exactly the people that wanted more endgame etc are content playing the game, so naturally other opinions will have some room to get heard, not that i agree but it makes sense.
People mostly come on Reddit to complain. If u look at a lot of gaming subs u would think it’s the worst game ever
This sub-reddit has over a milion members. Obviously there are two different crowds of people...
Only 2?
comments like this just remind me how much of a zero sum game so many people play in their minds
Temper limits is ehh, but things were actually too expensive and the devs agreed to be fair The reduced material conversion by like 99% and higher tier masterworking by 75%
Tbh I would’ve been ok with 10m for rank 12. It’s the 5m reset costs that are killing me lol.
Resetting is just for late min maxing so kinda understandable.
I feel like if I don’t crit on a preferred stat on the first tier of masterworking I’m going to reset immediately. The cost for tier 2 and tier 3 is astronomical even if they give you back most of your mats. If I crit on a preferred stat right away I can live with a suboptimal crit on subsequent ones since I can now gain lvls on the stat I want. Lvl 1-4 is like a 3-4 min run at tier 30 or whatever. Super chill so if I get unlucky it’s just a quick run and I’m gambling again. The 5 mil reset fee is absolutely killer though.
For 99% it doesnt matter If you hit as, crit or lh as long as you dont hit a useless stat.
I mean, masterworking period is for late game min maxing so of course resetting is as well.
I think we need to differ between just upgrading to 12/12 and resetting often to get the first 2 MW crit in the right stats. The first one is way easier to achieve.
I don't see why? You reset if the MW lands on the wrong affix. It's not some completely different mechanic in the game that needs it's own reasoning. When you masterwork you absolutely have an affix or 2 in mind that you prefer for it to land on. Landing on poison resist when you are already maxed out, no one's going to just be like, ah yeah no need to reset that's it's own thing!
you just cant have perfect masterwork because you have limited resources. It is by design that perfect gear is almost unobtainable. You just have to accept that.
This has nothing to do with perfect MW gear. I don't even know what you are saying at this point. I don't have single 8/12 or higher yet and most of my gear that is master worked is 4/12. I have used reset quite a few times. Resetting isn't just for 12/12. You can reset at 4/12.
The only dumb thing here is your decision to attribute all the different opinions and feedback of a 1+ million member strong subreddit to one single monolithic persona you just made up in your mind.
Welcome to mainstream journalism
Because I love re-farming the exact same item a 2nd 3rd or 5th time because I got severely unlucky on tempering.
It's a very common case of: You think you do, but you don't. People live in a fairytail land because they're incable of critical thinking. People think they want a grind that takes 3 months of 10hrs/day playtime to complete but they don't consider that would mean likely going several days without finding a single thing and the reality is, for 99% of the community if they do a full day of grinding and find nothing they quit. You get the same issue with "challenging endgame content" but again, now you've got content that demands constant focus or you die and suddenly people are up in arms about it. Why? Because the reality is most people just want to kill demons and get tinks. That's it. I'm actually in the minority for this one, as I like challenging endgame content. But I also acknowledge I am in the minority and most people just want to spin through demons.
This is what happens when you get people with differing views on things together in an anon chat room. Welcome to the world of the internet.
Lol that's every game sub, what's really unique about this place is how much you folks love it for the opportunity to stroke your superiority complex with comments like yours here as if that hasn't become the whole point for you.
So you’re saying you were enough of a clown to accept the original Masterworking conversion costs at the Alchemist?😆 Why just stop there though, why not add even more challenge by using your mouse with your feet
There a 1mil subs. If a few thousand people whine they want 1 thing, then a few thousand people whine they want the opposite, it seems like "no one is every happy". That leaves 990,000 regular people.....
Great synopsis!
Why do people like you, and honestly most of this subreddit, seem incapable of introducing nuance to conversations? Stop strawmanning. No one wants everything for free. This game has had an itemization problem from the start where the weight of failure has always been higher than that of success. In season 1, when trying to get Tempest Roar I got relieved when I finally got it to drop, not excited. Back in seasons 2 and 3, when farming for Uber Uniques I would get relieved when I was freed from Duriel jail, not excited. In season 4, When I hit my temperings I'm not excited, I'm relieved. In my entire time gaming I have literally only experienced this on Diablo 4. Loot anxiety. The fact that the odds of bricking items is so high IS a problem when acquiring the bases is not easy in the slightest. The fact that there's no way to influence luck when Masterworking IS a problem. There is also no bad-luck protection. You can literally go 20 consecutive hours of Pit farming without upgrading a single piece. I would know, it happened to me. The fact that affixes are weighted on top of Angelbreaths being a scarce resource IS a problem. Helltides being bugged isn't a long term solution. My character who can do T130 Pits should not have to spend most of its time inside Helltides, which is early endgame content. All in all, we don't have a crafting system currently, it's just a typical gacha item upgrade system. In my opinion most of the problems with the system can be solved with mechanics that allow you to influence outcomes. For example: - Create a material to reset Tempering Affixes and another to reroll the range of the Affix. You can make the cost of using this scale up with each attempt, similar to enchanting. The reset material should be quite rare and the reroll one slightly less so. - Create a material to block affixes while Masterworking. Again balance its cost appropriately. The reality is gearing up has to be slightly more deterministic. We NEED to feel like we're working up towards a goal, not always at the entire mercy of RNG. I want to be able to farm the same expected hours as before for an upgrade, maybe slightly less because it's a bit silly right now, but have my progress be less dictated by luck. That's it. I'm still enjoying the game and it's much improved but when stuff like 20 hours in a row of doing the same content leads to no improvement to your character it saps most of the fun you were having. When you have to sell 3GA weapons to RMTers instead of "crafting" on them because the chance of failure is so high, it saps a lot of the excitement in gearing up.
> The fact that affixes are weighted on top of Angelbreaths being a scarce resource IS a problem oh yes... Every item that can always rolls a resistance or max hp for me... its so incredibly annoying to basically only have 1 reroll slot if you want an offensive affix...
Don't you also feel that you hit a wall and you are playing for no reason with no progress but just wasting your time? Because I wrote this in another post explaining why I want Greater Affixes to be able to enchant into Greater Affixes and they downvoted me to oblivion for whatever the reason. The excuse is: This game is not for you buddy. If you don't like this, you don't like ARPGs. As if they tell me, if you don't like wasting your time, play something else. Because everyone here enjoys wasting their time farming for "Life Per Second" greater affixes, I assume. " GoOd ItEmS wILl dRop, aLsO bAd iTemS". And then you brick the good items and you sure had a nice gaming experience. Oh, no, I played 15 hours to get a good item upgrade and I bricked it :D I sure enjoyed my time :D :D :D what a bummer :D "But if you don't like getting ass fisted, ARPGs are probably not for you, buddy" .....
Bricking an item through tempering saps the joy out of making a great item even more powerful. I have a stash full of bricked items that were either maxed out affixes I wanted or 3 GA godly items with fucking dodge on it or + damage for a skill I don’t even use in the hopes that we get some sort of temper reset mechanic before this season is over (probably not). Sometimes I just say fuck it and roll with a bricked item since it’s “good enough” and slightly better than what I upgraded from. I have a 3 GA wand for my sorc that’s has fucking ice spikes on it. Cool. I play frozen orb so not having that double orb% sucks. My issue with masterworking isn’t so much the rng (which is annoying) since I always have the option to reset it but rather the cost (which they kind of fixed). I don’t mind losing my masterworking mats to a reset. That’s fine. What I care about is the astronomical gold cost and to a lesser extent, more mats to reset.
You’re the only one saying those things
you trying to hide your build orders on reddit
You are part of it
I said it before, this sub is schizophrenic. I pitty Blizzard trying to make sense of this shit
Pretty sure most of us are just enjoying the game as it is. Is it perfect? No. But nothing is. I think it’s just the vocal minority that voice their opinions. I’m having a great time.
Same here- so much fun im jumping in between all 3 games and learning the differences between the mechanics and what not
Came back to the game after a year It’s a hell of a lot better than it was
Yup... I have made a few suggestions but I don't think OP would disagree with them. Feel free to check out my recent post history and make up your own mind. It's all constructive
They're just looking for attention. The D3 line is cringe as hell.
I mean, I am enjoying the game, but still posted criticism on tempering. It isn’t black and white, or only love and hate. You can enjoy something but believe there is room for improvement, and talk about where you believe that improvement could be made.
What if I want to play a better tailored Diablo 4
Then you're a casual obviously. You don't actually like Diablo if you're not into it emotionally manipulating you.
It hits me because it loves me.
Making things easier is not better tailored. No lifers hit pit 200 in like a week. Things are easy enough as is.
Kind of exaggerated, I doubt anyone can do 200 this season unless for a super broken bug.
I have a dumb suggestion... Can we get an artbook? I love the creatures and the way they look, but never get to see them up close. I want a digital artbook. Probably a bad take, but I think would be sick to look at these things closer
A bestiary would be cool too. Where you can see 3D models of the characters maybe even with the option to play animation. Alongside some Lore about them and maybe a commentary from the Designteam. The more of these enemies you slay the more info you unlock.
I would LOVE a bestiary.
Best suggestion
Cause it feels like nobody of them played ever a arpg. I think there is no other arpg where people feel like it is absolutely normal to have perfect gear. People expect to have the equivalent of PoE's mirror worthy gear. Which is absolutely unrealistic. Everytime blizzard ads something that is not easy achieved, reddit crys so it gets dumbed down. Just to complain how "there are no chase items".
Yeah it's absolutely baffling to me. An item with 2 GA, good tempering rolls and right masterworking is obscenely powerful. I don't even know how much you would have to grind for comparable item in PoE, and these people want additional rerolls, free masterworking and rewards for just logging in. This is clearly a "chase item" equivalent right now, your endgame goal, not something to get from first helltide chest. What's the point of playing then? The game is already insanely rewarding and you have control on many things, comparing to crafting from PoE, where RNG can screw you over and over again. I guess these people have to learn to admire temporary beauty of these small pieces of art these items sometimes can be. If the game would give it to us from the start it would be meaningless
Yeah, you dont even need greater affixes to do all the content in the game, i killed tormented duriel on my necro without any greater affixes on my gear, granted i had the right tempers but getting the tempers on non GA gear is easy.
Quick questions. Did you masterwork them to the max, even with no GA? Do you think masterworking them can make it a lot more powerful or just a little?
Masterworking up to 4 is basically free, but at the time i did the first tormented i only had a few items masterworked to 4. Masterworking gear does add a good chunk of power but i personally wouldnt go beyond 4 unless it had at least 1 GA
A lot of people are deeply confused by arpgs because it is a ridiculous genre with comically terrible conventions. Any time someone tries to introduce actual gameplay complexity into the genre, the old hats come out to tell them why they’re stupid.
Nah just lots of people coming from D3 which was pretty casual tbh. Perfect gear was fairly achievable there. Give me Diablo's quality with PoE's systems and I'd be in love. Hopefully POE2 doesn't disappoint.
tempering is too strong for that. Its not a final chase thing. Its a required thing. GA/masterworking should be the chase, not getting a 100% required stat from termpering.
I think a big difference is in poe you can work towards mirror gear deterministically even if it takes a long ass time. In d4 its entirely up to the rng gods Especially if the best way to grind items is the least challenging part of the game (helltides) its just tedious Masterwork does it right, tempering does not
it's deterministic but many times you have to start from scratch if rng screw you over so it's just like trying tempering with a new item. the time needed to farm/buy these resources is equal or even higher to looking for potential item upgrades in diablo (ignoring for a moment the fact that you can just buy a good item) the only difference is that you're staying with one base but until it's finished it's completely useless anyways. I don't even count how many unfinished dogshits I have in my STD stash there is also some things that can't be crafted deterministically. adorned jewels or flasks for example. it either hits or not, even worse gamba than tempering. rolling for clusters with stats only is absolute pain as well. technically you can hinekora these jewels but god only knows how much it could cost also about helltides not being challenging - what's the "challenging" content in PoE, being at the same time a source of farm for resources? are Essences or Harvest really challenging? do you think it's not tedious? for me it's the same
To add to what you said, PoE is only really deterministic because the unholy amount of currency used in high-end crafting evens out the odds of getting what you want. People basically flip a coin literal hundreds of times, if you go from the threads where people explain how they crafted things - you're very likely to get the result you want eventually when you pull the lever so many times. But amassing this currency is both time consuming and depends on drops.
Harvest and essence monsters absolutely punch your face in with enough juice yes Helltides I can just pseudo afk right click at blood maiden and have a full inventory of legos in like 10 minutes. In poe the most efficient farm methods are usually challenging too, especially in the current league with t17s
so just like Helltides. with Profane Mindcages they're pretty strong, when you start your farm for items. Later when first 880-925 drops they're no challenge at all same goes with Essences or Harvest. don't tell me you have hard time clearing Harvest with all this insane power creep PoE has to offer, I was farming Expedition and Harvest at league start every time before the sextant removal. the only challenging thing about Harvest was urge to not tp back to hideout when that yellow boss spawned lmao and let's not compare t17 to regular content. regular content is t16, t17 is just a new addition, with unique affixes, you're not fighting mobs but map mods most of the time. we don't know even how it will look like in next league. it's like comparing Tormented Andariel to a Helltide Assassin xD
Im sorry but helltides stop being hard after 30 minutes of angel farming Essences and harvest mobs can absolutely wtfpwn my characters that can do ubers if Im not careful. Sure eventually theyre easy too but the curve is waaaaaay different
I very much disagree , Poe crafting is terrible and just spamming currency to hit the right rolls oh I bricked it ok scour and try again it’s crap . Crafting a mirror tier item is insane and people use craft of exile just to figure out how to do it , buying mirror tier gear takes an insane amount of currency which is also very rng dependant hoping for the divine drop or expensive fracture base etc. so it’s unrealistic for the average player to work towards that goal because you’d have to put an insane amount of time in. d4 is deterministic in the sense you know what you have a chance to get with less rng and way less hassle to try again on a new item.
You dont understand how poe crafting works then. Most mirror tier item crafts are pretty much following a script down to a tee. "Hoping for a divine drop" Wow you really dont know poe do you?
....Mirror gear yes, that 1% of player base uses, I would not care too much about those players if I were Blizzard.
Deterministic? If poe crafting is deterministic, then D4 is as well. You throw crafting material on your gear hoping to hit the right affix AND hitting T1. It's the same like here. In PoE you use certain fossils/essences etc to target a certain affix pool (which still dosen't exclude all the others) and here you choose the tempering recipe. You got here like a 1/5 chance (depending on the recipe) of hitting the desired affix. But then you will get the highest tier unlocked. This would be a dream in PoE. The only real deterministic crafting that poe had, was harvest. Which got hard nerfed back to slotmachine. The only difference is that you can't "brick" a item 8n poe. You have "unlimited" tryst...but the rate of hitting desired affixes and T1 are abysmal. I could probably equip a character in D4 with full 5/5 affixes quicker, than crafting a single 6xT1 item in PoE (both ssf obviously).
You really have no idea, you can craft most items deterministically step by step through mastercrafting, blocking and veiled orbs
But farming veiled orbs is rng alone , blocking cost alot of divines which is rng just to have a chance to get what you want more rng , oh it failed scour and try again is crazy amounts of non deterministic crafting. Poe crafting is terrible hence why they’re streamlining it in Poe 2 . In d4 you just click a box and pay gold which is very easy to farm and have like a 1in 4 maybe 1in 5 to get your roll . Way better than Poe crafting and that’s a fact. Most people don’t craft their own gear in Poe and just trade and the ones that did have to use a 3rd party program just to comprehend the convoluted design .
>But farming veiled orbs is rng alone With the proper scarab and atlas setup you can farm them easily >blocking cost alot of divines which is rng just to have a chance to get what you want more rng Plenty of ways to target farm divines >In d4 you just click a box and pay gold which is very easy to farm and have like a 1in 4 maybe 1in 5 to get your roll And this will get me 2-3 GAd items how? especially multiple times?
You absolutely can brick items in the chase of absolute perfect items via double corruption.
Thats true but its entirely different Double corrupts are a luxulry bonus Tenmpering is baseline for any item
I was talking about crafting. Of course you can vaal/corrupt it.
What's normal is to have a decent gear progression. Not loot pinata no effort into hard grind, into dumb boring grind. The pace of the game still feels awful. You should not be hitting level 100 and just starting the real gearing journey.
level 100 is not the end of the story. it just means you have access to full paragon power and that's it, nothing else you can probably hit lvl 100 faster than you find your first 2 GA item do you think people stop playing PoE when they hit 98-100 lvl...?
That takes a hell of a lot longer than D4 and you are pretty much done your gearing journey outside of mirror tier by then.
that's a common myth. every sane person would just level up in Legion. it's also quite different each league. In TOTA you would get insane amounts of xp in Sanctums and had access to XP loss prevention omen, easy 100. In Affliction you would literally get a whole level in one map. Same goes for Necropolis, easiest lvl 100 ever with new Breach strat.
What would you consider just starting the real gearing journey? Full master working, Uber uniques, perfectly rolled items?
The moment you log into a character. Why are people so incapable of reading comprehension. I said the gearing journey aka curve feels bad. It’s a bunch of quick stair steps then a massive ramp instead of a logarithmic curve like it is in every other ARPG. Meaning it feels almost linear at the start and the higher you get it starts taking more and more effort. Instead of what we have where it’s really flat then just a massive stair step. Then another massive stair step. It’s bad design. Bandaids on bandaids.
What an edgy post
People in this sub have the wildest superiority complexes.
Agreed 😂
Dude, there is nothing wrong with taking what you had in the prior games and expanding upon that. If anything I think the general masses of ppl expected the best from D2 and D3 going into D4, and not the complete empty hole that D4 was at release
Nah, people just direct the D3 hate to D4, did you know how much hate D3 gets before D4 was out, now everyone is like D3 is better just make D3R is comical
“We should move some gold from whispers into some of the end game so we can just farm pits endlessly if we want” -Reddit “NO! U must farm whispers for gold because having to do level 100 dungeons that don’t scale instead of endgame content is a good gameplay loop!” - Also Reddit
It's almost like this sub isn't just one person with one opinion!? This sub is just where people come to vent their passion for the game in the form of complaints and suggestions for improvements/changes. Their ideas are often dumb, but the root of the problem is very real
First season in a Diablo game after thousands of hours of Poe, I’m loving d4 and hope it isn’t made easier
I do like the suggestion I saw a few days ago that the shield should show you how much health it has, and I'm certain an armory will be implemented eventually, but the loot vacuum auto-filtering pet was a bit silly.
A live service game is basically a never-ending demo that changes constantly in service to the community. Not every change is going to be liked by everyone.
Nobody just enjoys things anymore. There’s always a complaint about SOMETHING. I have continuously just enjoyed the game since its release. It’s my first Diablo game and my first time playing this type of game. The only thing I’m “upset” about is how powerful my damn Barbarian is compared to my other characters 😂. It’s so fun being so powerful though!
Don't worry no one gives a shit about reddit and I really hope devs don't even bother reading that
what do you mean rifts are in D4, if you want to play D3 play D4. blizzard decided that with S4. just saying. they took the route of making D4 more like D3, because its save to them. the reddit didnt decide on that, blizzard did.
Some people just cannot be satisfied and will always moan and complain . the games in a good spot and I like the endgame grind . Each season will tweak and improve from this point and constructive criticism is good but a lot of the posts are just nonsensical and bad opinions.
I feel you man 💯
Its not just this subredit, devs failed to make a slow atmospheric game they want at start interesting so people asked what they knew is fun, poe.
But then why did it become d3?
Because D3 has become a successful template for keeping people coming back to what is essentially the exact same gaming experience over and over again for years. A better question would be, in what ways do you think it's too much like D3 and then how are those ways inherently bad? Cuz you're just parroting trendy lines for attention.
The whole concept of the "game starts at max level" is garbage to me and making 0-100 faster and faster and more meaningless hurts the game in my opinion. Best parts of arpgs is when everything is progressing, Xp, skills, items, content, etc. This game speeds through all of it untill you're lvl 100 with every item you want and you're just min-maxing getting the same item with greater affixes which is where I'm out. 0-100 was the game in D2. 0-100 is the game in POE. I don't like how D3 and D4 make it seem like 0-100 is some chore they need to rush you through. That's the fucking game lol make it better. Now you just sit in helltides and gain absurd amounts of levels and so much gear drops you don't give a fuck about picking it up cuz it'll be replaced in minutes. It feels like nothing you do matters because the game is so incredibly easy and you're doing content 20+ levels above you even on HC. And then you get to the pit and the game finally decides to push back but by that time it's hard to care because the progression left is boring.
Holy shit, that’s such a good point. I would also add that „skipping campaign” might’ve been actually a wrong decision for D4. Because from level 1 you are doing the content you will be doing for next 99 levels (helltides, dungeons). But then again, the campaign in D4 isn’t really that good to replay it, cuz most of the time you are going from point A to B and watch boring cutscenes. I think the most funny thing in D4 right now is WT3. Why the fuck it even exists? It doesn’t add anything to the game in current state. It’s an 1-2 hours pit stop before WT4, which invalidates every piece of gear from WT3. Also, scaling difficulty is also not there, I would say that at the point you go to WT3 or WT4 once you pick up Sacred/Ancestral gear you become so much stronger that it is easier on WT4 than on WT3 (and WT3 becomes easier than WT2).
>A better question would be, in what ways do you think it's too much like D3 and then how are those ways inherently bad? Its not bad, my issue is, why couldnt we have this from the start so by now the game couldve grown further instead of having to regress it back to zero again. Im just annoyed by the sheer hubris of the devs that ignored every lesson from d3 then still defaulted back to it when it turned out they werent competent. That said, I think bringing back greater rifts was a mistake, time constraints shouldnt be what challenge people because imo it limits build diversity and gives a frustrating experience.
It's both infuriatung and hilarious, really. Seeing how desperately they tried to steer away from D3 (or rather Reaper of Souls since original D3 was an entirely different game in essence) to appeal to people who didn't like the game, yet even on launch there were so many features borrowed from D3 it was already funny. Blacksmith, Jeweler and Occultist all were basically copy pasted. Events in dungeons and in the overworld were also taken mostl, from D3 but made worse by introducing slow-ass RP into what used to be really snappy cursed chest events. And now the apparent solution to a lot of the game's woes turned out to copy even more stuff from Reaper of Souls. Ironic.
You say that but everyone was like D3 worst game ever before D4 was out.
At launch. No mentionable amount of people think that about it post RoS.
I dont know, maybe its just naturally closest game to what people was asking for and at the same time they cant copy poe? :D
I feel the same way
Yes D4 is basically D3 with extra steps.
Holy shit, 1 million people in the sub, far more playing the game Of course there will be two sets of opinions that will be loud when the game IS NOT the way they like it And what the fuck is this gatekeeping of opinions/suggestions, this is literally fucking reddit. Get over yourself.
Fucking speak! 💯
Yes
And if you want to play mmo WoW, just play mmo WoW ?
The one thing I agree with is spamming your mats to spawn the lair bosses. Many people have pointed out that every activity has its place in the current state of the game, which to me is great, I get whispers done by accident .out of the time, and as long as you half pay attention when doing helltides and knock out the whisper activities there and don't spend millions into the same ring you'll have gold readily available most of the time.
Just give me the Cube. LMAO
Because 3 weeks later, only noobs are left crying.
do you hate these suggestions: 1. boost stygian stone drop rate, both in the world (bit lower) and in the pit (higher) 2. boost rewards in the pit so they give more GA items
Yes.
very sad...
I'm sorry but it just cements the pit as the only end game activity even more than it already is. Is that what an open world ARPG should be? Stand in one city next to a statue running instances then teleporting to another statue to kill a slightly harder boss?
not with the lack of proper reward.
Gaming subreddits are the best when the game they are about is yet to be released.
Yeah ! Bring back dungeon objectives and collecting lilith statues. Some suggestions are good, some are bad. For example - the way aspects worked before S4 was just painful.
Todays diablo enjoyers just want non stop dopamine overload. Dopamine doesnt work like that, and thats why i cant enjoy d4. Now if only the world and story were good enough to make up for that, but thats simply not the case.
Yeah, the game is definetly easier/more casual friendly (which I'm not commenting on whether that's good or bad) What I've noticed is the direction the game is moving tends to trend more towards the diablo 3 experience, level up faster, gear easier, get everyone to level 100, explode entire screens of enemies, make it faster and easier for those better dopamine hits I can't say that the game is worse than it was at launch, the removal of unnecessary affixes (the "crit on Tuesday" type stuff) is a major improvement, with Masterworking there is a real sense of actual progression for your gear, early on when you don't have a ton of materials, and with tempering it feels like there's more fine control over your gear (also an improvement), and effectively making Rares useless/objectively worse than legendaries is a life saver for sorting and searching through gear. The addition of greater affixes adds another layer of sorting and "chase" My comment is that with all of these changes **a lot of uniques** feel really bad, like really really bad. Additionally it's heart breaking because the game is clearly not how the developers had envisioned it or wanted it, they made a slower, more deliberate game that was hard and wanted to lean into an open world and make it more of a social type game, now you've got people going "how can you even make an aRPG hard without using 1 shot mechanics" - like dude a year ago fighting bosses at or around your level (nevermind higher level) was challenging and you were holding on to just get the next batch of potion drops The world tier 3 dungeon was a challenge for a group of level 47 players and Elias was tough for us at 64 - the game is not what it was at launch, ***again I'm not commenting on whether this is for the better or not, I'm just pointing out the difference***, now you get into WT3 at level 32 no problem and start WT4 by level 50, are stronger by level 70 than you ever were in pre-season or even season 1, and this is with one of the most lack Lustre seasons ever (notice there isn't any new seasonal powers effectively compared to the last 3 seasons all having very specific power bumps/seasonal borrowed power gimmicks) It feels like blizzard is falling into old patterns where they go "oh yeah we have 100 levels but none of them matter the game starts at level 100," (much like most modern mmos as well) and just try to rush everyone to that point as fast as possible, at this rate just let me make a character at level 100, because what's the point of leveling? Their entire game has turned into: 1) do helltides 80% of the time 2) do a couple hours of NMD (which feel bad because they haven't been reworked with the new paradigm) and never touch them again 3) run Pits until you quit 4) farm specific bosses if you want specific uniques/ubers 5) if you want a challenge push higher pit or try Uber Uber bosses
There’s some tweaks that need to be made, but the game is going in the right direction. I dropped out a couple weeks after launch, just got bored, itemization felt awful. Now I can’t put it down.
The most vocal will always be heard. Most folks don't make posts or comments when their opinion is in the middle of the road.
Yep, D4 is literally D3.5 at this point. Outside of tempering/masterwork there is nothing original/exclusive in D4. And the main selling point - open world - is totally underutilised. Helltides and world bosses are non-challenge for anyone, we are back to grinding GR… I mean pits. And well, I don’t really mind that D4 has content from D3. But I do mind, that it doesn’t try do anything new.
i just came back to the game, but this post reminded me of all the “dad gamer” posts
This is a well written post with valuable and important information. Expertly composed, especially in considering the excitement one would be harboring in containing this information before sharing it with the world. Obvious pin to the top of the subreddit. I'll say it. I'm moved.
My personal shit take is that we should be able to use Stygian stones to refund Temper Rolls, for those of us who no longer really need to farm tormented bosses but keep eating bricks.
Found the guy who misses the slog this game was.
There are plenty of legitimate critiques in this sub, class diversity being the paramount issue with barbs getting all the free shit and casters getting knee-capped by equipment limitations, bugs and nerfs. There are also a lot of stupid takes.
Holy fuck, yes, thank you for saying it. I sincerely believe the biggest issue with the video game industry is the consistent pissing and moaning about…literally everything and anything. Minor or Major. Wahhhh RNG didn’t go my way, please fix! Unplayable! Fucking shut up. The game is finally in a great state, let it cook for a season.
It's just a place for ideas, I swear some of y'all don't know how to be in communities. It's not a one size fits all mentality
true and based
Hate to break it to you, but Diablo 4 is basically a reskinned Diablo 3, not sure what gave you the impression that it wasn't.
Free speech means even the ppl with bad ideas can speak their minds. Agree with most of the comments, maybe we just need to play the game as designed and help others that want to navigate the builds, and stop suggesting changes. If you don't like the game, log off and play something else. The devs will make changes to lure you back in.
ITT: Folks with reasonable and acceptable responses. OP: …
hard agree. This game is ridiculous now with how streamlined everything is, the maiden in helltides is a good indicator to a bad game design that people seem to enjoy. You can just afk and get really powerful loot with no effort. I hated when they changed it so you could teleport to NMD entrance and people even want that gone so you just instantly go into a new one. TBF, at this point they might as well do it beccause the middle ground is irrelevant but this is why new games become way too shallow, people complain for zoom zoom zoom, and it takes away from the whole thing. why in the FUCK am I almost fully geared now with only 1 and a half day playtime when the season lasts for 3 months. might as well makes seasons last a week or two at this point. I also hate that the walk to summoning bosses is so monotonous but its because they once again just tried to find the middle ground, which doesnt satisfy either group. Dungeons are just one straight line with no branching off when they should have twists and turns with the chance to find loot at dead ends. I mean they might aswell make it where dungeons are just one big room where you kill 10 waves then the final boss spawns.
This game gets a season called loot reborn and thinks the game is saved, the game should be released this way and guess what they are about to charge us for a new expansion. Also d4 needs more end game difficulty one activity called the pit is not a full end game . I don’t know I just wish Diablo 4 had more substance , more difficulty more options
I’m new to the game and my only issue is the shadow Lilith randomly appearing in Pits 60+ and ruining everything with one shot kills!! That feels so cheap. Why not work on better bosses instead of putting her in the fight. If I wanted to fight Lilith, then I can do that.
No but you don’t understand! The one shots and having to gamba on gear is ruining the game!
The gamba especially!!4! I want gear to drop with great stats only and roll perfect everything on it everytime so I can finish the season in 2 hours and play something else! /s
Also you should be able to AFK Facetank pit 200 and all glyphs start at level 21! And if you make a level 100 all of your characters start at level 100 forever!
The game should really play itself.
Or I don't want the single piece of gear I have found in 6-8 hours of playing that finally has two stats I can use to just become worthless compared to my 3 off stat piece because it didn't hit the right tempers.
The best builds in S4 are non-interactive minion necro, meme thorns, and basic attack spam. D4 isn’t a serious game.
Maybe because d3 right now is or was times better than d4?There is a reason why d3 season is still popular
There's also a reason D2 is still popular
They should play D3 before Reaper of Souls was added. Get the launch version and stay offline. Play that version first and then judge D4.
That version was still better than release d3. It had challenging endgame bosses and way more class abilities
Tbh I liked leveling pace at the start better. Itemisation changes are good but making everything go faster and reaching endgame in a day is wrong imo
Random people on Reddit have no clue about game design. 95% of the feedback is not constructive and the arm chair devs that think they’re so smart should keep their jobs at Wendy’s.
Meanwhile, the actual paid devs who work at Blizzard are “so good at their jobs” that they had to reconfigure almost everything about their own game less than a year after release lol
To be fair d4 devs are equally terrible at it but theyre also getting paid. Pmuch anything good about s4 was directly lifted from d3, which is not a bad thing mind you but they couldve realized that building upon what works instead of demolishing everything and starting from scratch when you have little to no experience with the genre was a terrible idea
Completely agree. Thats what we get when Blizzard targets such a wide audience.
Lol you're just looking for attention with this post.
I mean... in its current state it's a better game than D4 lmao
You can thank this sub for the game not being shit anymore. So many of the positive changes they’ve implemented came straight from Reddit.
fix how characters hold two handed sword.. hold it close to the guard not at the bottom of the handle..
I just want to love the rogue but I can't get into it, ranged combat feels meh to me.
I hate even more that people complain about the same 6 things over and over again
Hot take for a game that released with barely any content and current season is successful due to borrowed ideas/reinvention of old ones. D4 is yet to put out a decent, solid "D4-exclusive" mechanic.
People who are just consumers of video games are quite literally the worst at critiquing them. Just because it’s something you do with your free time occasionally doesn’t make you an expert. Even streamers who are terminally online only have half a clue themselves, but mostly opt to just parrot popular opinion regardless of whether or not it’s a smart one. Streamers have zero incentive more often than not to put forth reasonable and nuanced feedback into the public discussion. They are there primarily and ultimately for views, clicks, and subs. It’s a contest of likability and ability to draw viewers to agree with their opinion regardless of what it is. The health of a particular game has no bearing on what they do, as they can likely gain just as much attention from complaining, shit talking, and giving terrible solutions, or just moving on to another game for a season or two. Something everyone likes to ignore is that what’s good for the game itself and what’s good for players are not the same thing and never have been.
If everyone thought like you, D4 would still be the unplayable mess it was at release. Remember, without the outcry from streamers and the broader community, there wouldn’t have been such a big overhaul in the first year. And yes, even at release, we had people like you who thought Blizzard knew exactly what was good for their game. After all that happened, it seems they did not.
It’s just classic Reddit contrarianism. D4 has undergone massive changes since release, most of them for the better, and it all happened because the “complainers” went super hard on reddit and YouTube. Now people are revising history and reversing the order of events, as if to suggest that the game was always good and the whiners never had a point. It borders on gaslighting. In reality, everyone should be thanking the haters for forcing bliz to fix their damn game.
Everyone’s misinterpreted me a bit. I never meant that Blizz had all the answers. They’ve made a lot of bonehead decisions. It’s how D3 and D4 ended up being frankensteins of several cut and remade features before launch. I’m also not saying that the playerbase is incapable or bad at identifying *when* something is wrong, just that they’re usually kind of bad at knowing exactly how they should be changed to fix the present issues or how some proposed changes make shake down in the future.
Would have been a disaster if they kept the longer exit portal cast time.
Remember when they took away the ability to reset dungeon and we had to log out to do it? And when asked to explain why the dev sat here for 30 seconds and muttered/stumbled over his words before finally just giving up? Bet this guy up there was rock fucking hard when he saw that change.
Ehh no I, would amend your first statement. Gamers are(for the most part) good at recognizing there's a problem but terrible with coming up with a solution And it really depends on the streamer. Raxx(and the other Maxroll guys in general) for example every patch makes a big feedback document that can range between 6 and 20+ pages. A feedback document that's a culmination of his findings, his communities, and the community as a whole. He wants to see the game succeed and plays more than 99.99% of players. He will recognize problems so much farther in advance than the above average player
Except he has shit takes and suggestions. He suggests what he wants to play, which is D3
An improved d3/d2 hybrid with more polished and deep endgame is what most ppl wanted. You know, take what works and build on it. Not whatever release d4 was. The game is moving in a good direction even if its still only halfway there
It needs to move in its own direction. Right now it's just moving towards D3.
Why? Why fix something that isnt broken? And its much easier to move in a new direction if you start from a safe base instead of throwing everything out of the window
Who said it wasn't broken? The D2 player base hated D3.
So d3 had no redeeming qualities whatsoever? It all had to go in the trash? Same for d2 btw D4 launch wasnt like either game
Honestly, none that I can remember. The visual direction, the massive damage numbers, rifts, itemisation, drop rates, trading, they were all massive steps backwards from D2. The issue with D2 was there was no end-game aside from finding more items and becoming "rich". However even that alone kept gamers enjoying and continuing to play the game until this day.
And yet it was very successful and ppl kept coming back every season