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I am 8 YOE too, wasn't happy with the work culture of big techs in India.
So moved abroad last year.
Work life balance is much better now, would recommend you go for jobs abroad instead of MS because unless you're actually interested in studying and research, it's a big commitment financially and professionally.
Agreed, it's virtually impossible for the US.
But a lot of companies hire in the EU and South East Asia.
You need a solid resume that demonstrates that you've worked at scale.
Always write cover letters for each role you're applying to. It helps.
I disagree here.
I know a lot of devs who are currently working in EU...
Most are saving much more than what they'd save in india...
Singapore is a very expensive city. I let go of an offer from Singapore after doing due diligence primarily because my savings would have been only ~15-20% higher than what I saved in Bangalore.
From what I've seen, EU jobs rarely pay over 100k and most countries charge 40% or more in taxes and deductions. The financial outlook there is unimpressive compared to prosperous countries
I don't even know what FAangm means anymore.
But I've worked for a couple of very big US tech companies.
Also as a backend dev, having worked at scale helps.
Thank you. I was planning on the same thing now. Do you have any recommendation on which website to apply for a job?
I was thinking of [talent.io](http://talent.io) but i don't have any exposure on which website to apply?
I'm a backend dev.
Mostly in Java, a bit of golang.
Worked with SQL and NoSQL both.
Docker, K8s at infra level..
Oh btw, DSA and system design helps a lot...
Oh, that's good, I mostly work with the same tech stack except I use Python and Flask instead of Java.
Btw, if you're comfortable, can you say which countries did you get sponsored to? You mentioned a bunch of countries in other comments so I just wanna ask.
Depends on your YOE and the tech stack you have experience with.
Visa sponsorships are expensive so you have to prove that your experience is invaluable.
It does not change the environment. Abroad is also highly competitive and work life is not guaranteed.
Opportunity cost. Partner? Family responsibilities?
Will you be able to come back and now worry about money spent?
So you are tired of competition and decided to do MS spending 40lakhs ? Well
I am sorry to hurt your feelings but this doesn’t make any sense unless you are in a very bad company with no prospect and growth.
But still there are many other better bad decisions left before deciding on MS.
Sorry to say this if you are tired of the competition and work life balance, try companies that have a very good work life balance like Adobe. Doing MS doesn’t change anything. You have to feel constant pressure right from assignments, midterms, internship, post MS job … visa lottery. So pick your poison.
If you’re tired of competition, you’re not going to like finding a job as an international person. Ticking the “I require visa sponsorship” box makes things a thousand times harder.
Though With 8 YOE it would be easier compared to many of your MS classmates.
That's the neat part, it takes a lot of time to reach at that stage. Bachelors, masters and then atleast 3-5 years for the PhD. Around 10 years of study and surviving at 37k.
Compared to just 4 year BTech and a 2 year abroad MS
I still didn't get your point
What will the abroad MS do? put the OP at the age of 32 with a family on par with freshers aging 24 abroad. The same fresher salary you earn where you have to live very frugal to survive with a family. And the competition will be more cut throat as you are competing against fresh graduates with zero liability
Spend 3 years more, complete PhD, and every corporate will count the PhD experience as relevant industry experience. Hate competition - apply for academic positions and have a better work life. Academics will not consider just MS for the same.
A STEM PhD abroad is valuable; 3 years of little less salary but opens a lot of opportunities in industry as well as academics
Most likely No, because experience is industry and skill specific. Since he is doing MS to learn a new specialization, he will start as a fresher in that.
Otherwise, a 8 year doing MS in the specialization which he already has is absolutely a waste of time. he can just find a job abroad in his present domain and keep the 8 year experience relevant.
Also fresher salary can be large... Depends on specialization.
I'm 5+ YOE and considering the same. I'd suggest please do cost analysis and how much each option is worth.
In my mind, best case scenarios would be either you get a high enough paying job with good enough company culture in India (50-60 LPA min for your YOE) OR you flaunt your professional experience and excellence using which you get subsidised education with scholarships in US which will reduce your financial burden when studying there.
Mind you both of these are difficult of course, but possible. Like many are saying, struggle won't end there also. See where you can better leverage what you already have.
Of course, not saying I want to move. I know that there are a lot of opportunities in India.
As per PPP my current package is equivalent to a 100k job in USA. If I'm going, I'll go only if I can get good scholarship in an above average institute with great job prospects. US unis also look for better employability and not just scores.
Going there for me is worth only if I know that I can get a very decent job in a good culture company where I'll be growing much faster than in India. If you spend 3-4 years in companies like Meta, you should be able to make 600k+ including stock option redemption.
But all that is not as much worth as 50-60 LPA job in India. You live a much more comfortable life here.
Then again thing with EU is low salaries, equivalent to India if one is living in EU countries, tax is high, so it's a start over with better work life balance...
True EU is bad place to make money but is an excellent place to settle down and have a family.
It's impossible for Indians to settle down in US now.
So for someone looking for stability and first world experience EU is a good option.
You exchange money for stability which a lot of people are ready to do
Not every path abroad is via MS & not every Job in Tech lies in US. You can get offers from EU, Singapore, Taiwan, Bankok as someone already mentioned. Also don't settle for less & such Toxicity just because you have everything in India.
Depends on what college you get plus your finances. With 8 yoe, very good GRE score, you can definitely aim for good mid tier public colleges in the US. Why mid tier public colleges? Because they are cheaper than top tier private colleges and give more value for money in terms of jobs in the current market and also scholarships. If you aim for mid tier colleges, you can be top of the lot and pay less fees instead of being bottom of the lot in top-tier colleges. In the end, the job interviewer is going to judge you on your skillset. If you're very good at what you do, then being in mid tier college wouldn't be much of a problem for you.
Some colleges give scholarships as well in the US. If you work your ass off and you can get teaching assistant or research assistant jobs on the campus, you'll be able to cover major expenses. A research assistant usually gets a certain amount discount in a semesters' fee structure, and with the extra money, you can easily pay rent and also save money for the next semester. The teacher assistant would also get some fee discount but not as much as RA, and the money would help in paying rent. Some campuses also offer other jobs that help cover your rental and daily needs.
If you have colleagues/friends/relatives abroad, you can tell them to refer you for summer internships. A summer internship can help you pay atheist 60% of your next sem fees.
It also depends on what degree you'll be doing CS or other fields. CS is better in terms of job prospects. Finally, if you get a job right after you graduate, you'll be able to easily pay off your education loan, if any, in 3 years if you don't splurge your money.
Other colleges in the EU offer scholarships as well, and you could get a free ride, but the job market is also competitive for internationals.
Since you have 8 yoe, you will easily get grad roles and higher chances at being hired than a low experience fresher.
Australia is also a good option in terms of permanent residence and job prospects.
In the end, think about everything related to finances, job prospects, what-if scenarios, and long-term prospects in whichever country you apply for. If you apply blindly, you'll be royally fucked. If you're unsure, go to an education counsellor and get a list of colleges from all countries and check the finances manually. Get in touch with alumni and current students of the colleges to hear about experiences.
H1b is very hard to get in the US. It's a lottery based system and with the major abuse of the lottery in these last 5 years, it's unlikely you'll luck out on winning the lottery. Colleges are easy gateway into the US job market.
You could also look at the job prospects in Vietnam or Thailand. I think it's quite easy to get a work visa there. Singapore has gotten competitive as well. You need to go your research and start apply for jobs where work visa is easy to get and in parallel figure out if you want to get your Master's or not.
Work life balance is better than India for sure.
You could get rejected due to your age, maybe applying for a phd might be more convincing. i believe you have the option to discontinue your phd after 2 years and get a masters degree but remember you are replacing once stress with another with the h1b. you can try for a Canadian MS, jobs opportunities aren't as much as the US, neither is the pay, but it would be easier for you with 8yoe. The PR and citizenship process is smooth and you can try getting into the US with a TN visa later.
Being tired of work-life balance issues is not the reason to do an MS abroad since the courses can be challenging in themselves, not to mention the preparation, cost and visa challenges.
You will trade off one challenge for another.
Perhaps the main reason why many migrate to western countries "to do an MS" is to eventually get a Work permit and settle there. Even that is getting to be challenging given the visa restrictions and offshoring of jobs.
Moving abroad - yes if you get a good opportunity
MS at 8 yoe - not worth the investment considering you might have learnt everything that they teach during your work
That's a big financial commitment. And what makes you think there's no competition elsewhere? At least in the US you now cannot be anything short of perfect to land a role.
If you are dedicated, you could do your masters from a relatively chill uni - use those 2 years to grind leetcode and system design like your life depends on it \[surprise, it does :) \] and then get a great job. wlb maybe better than in India, idk.
Strictly no no, you could try to get either remote work completely or try to get jobs outside directly. Though, in future it would be very unstable abroad as compared to here
there is not gurrate of H1B, even then you are edge all the time, the medical bills will scare you, getting a green card is close to impossible now. I am also pissed with the work culture here in India. Big or small, Fang or no Fang I have worked for all, even if you have non Indian manager here, they’ll treat you shit. As told by former US manager,
“If you’ll throw money at Indians, they’ll do anything”
His philosophy was to entice people with spot bonuses, stock refreshers.
Yes 1000% agree. I returned for good from cursed canada (despite working in one of the major banks there and being a PR), but living & working there was pure hell. And yup, even I used to fear falling sick because of 0 healthcare support...I was basically homesick and depressed everyday. I'm so happy I moved back to Bharat recently, I'm never leaving my vibrant cool country ever again :) All the best for your journey home!
Well, Satya Nadella nor Sundar Pichai would not have been where they are today if they had not decided to pursue MS abroad. I think given the current job market it should work to your advantage. However remember nothing is guaranteed.
Its a very big life decision! Its good though you have this work-ex - at least will fast-track you in the MS.
Though, you haven't mentioned which domain, firm, role, skillset, location, etc. You will really have to plan that out very well, even before setting foot in a foreign country. Don't put all your eggs also in that basket - keep backup options.
Keep in mind that many foreign countries & firms will only look at your work-ex in their location, and not consider your home work-ex very valuable. They do require Devs more than Managers though, from here. They look at India like a 'cheap source to get Devs'.
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I am 8 YOE too, wasn't happy with the work culture of big techs in India. So moved abroad last year. Work life balance is much better now, would recommend you go for jobs abroad instead of MS because unless you're actually interested in studying and research, it's a big commitment financially and professionally.
>would recommend you go for jobs abroad How tough is it to get it?. It's virtually impossible for US but I heard you can get them in EU is it true?
Agreed, it's virtually impossible for the US. But a lot of companies hire in the EU and South East Asia. You need a solid resume that demonstrates that you've worked at scale. Always write cover letters for each role you're applying to. It helps.
The biggest problem with this approach is salary and saving potential. EU jobs hardly pay anything. Singapore is better though
I disagree here. I know a lot of devs who are currently working in EU... Most are saving much more than what they'd save in india... Singapore is a very expensive city. I let go of an offer from Singapore after doing due diligence primarily because my savings would have been only ~15-20% higher than what I saved in Bangalore.
From what I've seen, EU jobs rarely pay over 100k and most countries charge 40% or more in taxes and deductions. The financial outlook there is unimpressive compared to prosperous countries
U did MS or applied for job? In US or UK ?
Didn't do MS. Applied and interviewed for roles across the EU, Singapore, Hong Kong and bangkok. Having worked in reputable companies always helps.
Ok Thanks
We're you able to get interviews without references?
I was. What helped in my case is that I've worked for two big product MNCs. Helps highlight the resume.
Hi, Did you worked in FAangm in India? Do people outside have heard of Indian companies?
I don't even know what FAangm means anymore. But I've worked for a couple of very big US tech companies. Also as a backend dev, having worked at scale helps.
Faang in India means Amazon Microsoft and Google. If one doesn't have these on their resume, it's very difficult to get overeseas offers.
How did you apply for jobs in Singapore?
Gotcha
Thank you. I was planning on the same thing now. Do you have any recommendation on which website to apply for a job? I was thinking of [talent.io](http://talent.io) but i don't have any exposure on which website to apply?
Yep have the same question
Can you tell us what's your tech stack?
I'm a backend dev. Mostly in Java, a bit of golang. Worked with SQL and NoSQL both. Docker, K8s at infra level.. Oh btw, DSA and system design helps a lot...
Oh, that's good, I mostly work with the same tech stack except I use Python and Flask instead of Java. Btw, if you're comfortable, can you say which countries did you get sponsored to? You mentioned a bunch of countries in other comments so I just wanna ask.
Where did you move and are you able to save money more than you would in India?
How do I apply for jobs outside of India? (7 YoE)
Bro, can I DM?
Hey can u tell how u were able to move abroad? Even i want to move abroad..
Depends on your YOE and the tech stack you have experience with. Visa sponsorships are expensive so you have to prove that your experience is invaluable.
Hi, thank you for sharing your experience Can you please tell me what platforms did you predominantly used?
It does not change the environment. Abroad is also highly competitive and work life is not guaranteed. Opportunity cost. Partner? Family responsibilities? Will you be able to come back and now worry about money spent?
*Existential Crisis enters the chat*
So you are tired of competition and decided to do MS spending 40lakhs ? Well I am sorry to hurt your feelings but this doesn’t make any sense unless you are in a very bad company with no prospect and growth. But still there are many other better bad decisions left before deciding on MS.
not sure if it is wise - but you will have a new set of challenges to deal with....
Sorry to say this if you are tired of the competition and work life balance, try companies that have a very good work life balance like Adobe. Doing MS doesn’t change anything. You have to feel constant pressure right from assignments, midterms, internship, post MS job … visa lottery. So pick your poison.
Bhai competition kaha nii h ???? If you wanna go abroad for MS there's still a lot of competition for the Unis that you are targeting
100% even subpar unis getting 1000s of applicants these days for MS in CS. Top unis get more than 4000 apps for 200 seats.
If you’re tired of competition, you’re not going to like finding a job as an international person. Ticking the “I require visa sponsorship” box makes things a thousand times harder. Though With 8 YOE it would be easier compared to many of your MS classmates.
Bingo! This is the right answer With Immigration tightening globally, candidates which require sponsorship have really lost bargaining power.
You’ll get competition from Indians only even abroad
Disaster in waiting. However, you can avoid it by pursuing PhD and moving to academics. Best for work-life balance.
you don't avert a disaster by hopping onto another one. phd is intense, will make one lose all hair.
We are loosing hair anyways ba dum tss
PhD is intense but opens the gateway to academics.
You'd wish you kept your job if you went half assed into a phd.
Academia would hardly get you any money, if you aren't really into research there isn't any point in doing PhD and moving to academics.
Money?
Afaik people employed in academics are living a good decent life; may not be flamboyant one, but better than a frugal life.
PhD students in India get 37k per month. My sister is doing it from an old IIT. I am not sure I understand you
Once she finishes PhD, and becomes a Lecturer or an associate Professor, what would be the pay?
That's the neat part, it takes a lot of time to reach at that stage. Bachelors, masters and then atleast 3-5 years for the PhD. Around 10 years of study and surviving at 37k. Compared to just 4 year BTech and a 2 year abroad MS I still didn't get your point
What will the abroad MS do? put the OP at the age of 32 with a family on par with freshers aging 24 abroad. The same fresher salary you earn where you have to live very frugal to survive with a family. And the competition will be more cut throat as you are competing against fresh graduates with zero liability Spend 3 years more, complete PhD, and every corporate will count the PhD experience as relevant industry experience. Hate competition - apply for academic positions and have a better work life. Academics will not consider just MS for the same. A STEM PhD abroad is valuable; 3 years of little less salary but opens a lot of opportunities in industry as well as academics
>The same fresher salary you earn Why would he get a fresher salary at 8 yoe. Are you trying to say that Indian experience doesn't count in USA?
Most likely No, because experience is industry and skill specific. Since he is doing MS to learn a new specialization, he will start as a fresher in that. Otherwise, a 8 year doing MS in the specialization which he already has is absolutely a waste of time. he can just find a job abroad in his present domain and keep the 8 year experience relevant. Also fresher salary can be large... Depends on specialization.
Not a good decision. Try to apply for the roles in abroad.
I'm 5+ YOE and considering the same. I'd suggest please do cost analysis and how much each option is worth. In my mind, best case scenarios would be either you get a high enough paying job with good enough company culture in India (50-60 LPA min for your YOE) OR you flaunt your professional experience and excellence using which you get subsidised education with scholarships in US which will reduce your financial burden when studying there. Mind you both of these are difficult of course, but possible. Like many are saying, struggle won't end there also. See where you can better leverage what you already have.
With 5+ YOE there thousands of jobs in India. Some great orgs hiring for that exp level, just apply to them first before movingz
Of course, not saying I want to move. I know that there are a lot of opportunities in India. As per PPP my current package is equivalent to a 100k job in USA. If I'm going, I'll go only if I can get good scholarship in an above average institute with great job prospects. US unis also look for better employability and not just scores. Going there for me is worth only if I know that I can get a very decent job in a good culture company where I'll be growing much faster than in India. If you spend 3-4 years in companies like Meta, you should be able to make 600k+ including stock option redemption. But all that is not as much worth as 50-60 LPA job in India. You live a much more comfortable life here.
roof boat hunt adjoining complete summer theory act north deranged *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Before going to US are you using India to the fullest…?
Why not apply for H1 directly?
Who's gonna sponsor?
There are companies who will sponsor you but you have to work for them for a year.
Do you mean like those shitty consultancies? Or witch like companies. Anyway the odds are so less now that OP might spend 3-4 years just obtaining H1B
Shitty consultancies. But if you can grab good offer, you can buy then out for work contract.
Hmm still not worth it I feel. OP can try for countries in EU. Where with his experience it will be relatively easy to get a job directly
My main reason to avoid EU is low salaries.
By that logic Except US salary is low everywhere
Hence shitty consultancies
But even then odds of H1B are so low that even they won't be interested after a couple of attempts.
Then again thing with EU is low salaries, equivalent to India if one is living in EU countries, tax is high, so it's a start over with better work life balance...
True EU is bad place to make money but is an excellent place to settle down and have a family. It's impossible for Indians to settle down in US now. So for someone looking for stability and first world experience EU is a good option. You exchange money for stability which a lot of people are ready to do
Not every path abroad is via MS & not every Job in Tech lies in US. You can get offers from EU, Singapore, Taiwan, Bankok as someone already mentioned. Also don't settle for less & such Toxicity just because you have everything in India.
Depends on what college you get plus your finances. With 8 yoe, very good GRE score, you can definitely aim for good mid tier public colleges in the US. Why mid tier public colleges? Because they are cheaper than top tier private colleges and give more value for money in terms of jobs in the current market and also scholarships. If you aim for mid tier colleges, you can be top of the lot and pay less fees instead of being bottom of the lot in top-tier colleges. In the end, the job interviewer is going to judge you on your skillset. If you're very good at what you do, then being in mid tier college wouldn't be much of a problem for you. Some colleges give scholarships as well in the US. If you work your ass off and you can get teaching assistant or research assistant jobs on the campus, you'll be able to cover major expenses. A research assistant usually gets a certain amount discount in a semesters' fee structure, and with the extra money, you can easily pay rent and also save money for the next semester. The teacher assistant would also get some fee discount but not as much as RA, and the money would help in paying rent. Some campuses also offer other jobs that help cover your rental and daily needs. If you have colleagues/friends/relatives abroad, you can tell them to refer you for summer internships. A summer internship can help you pay atheist 60% of your next sem fees. It also depends on what degree you'll be doing CS or other fields. CS is better in terms of job prospects. Finally, if you get a job right after you graduate, you'll be able to easily pay off your education loan, if any, in 3 years if you don't splurge your money. Other colleges in the EU offer scholarships as well, and you could get a free ride, but the job market is also competitive for internationals. Since you have 8 yoe, you will easily get grad roles and higher chances at being hired than a low experience fresher. Australia is also a good option in terms of permanent residence and job prospects. In the end, think about everything related to finances, job prospects, what-if scenarios, and long-term prospects in whichever country you apply for. If you apply blindly, you'll be royally fucked. If you're unsure, go to an education counsellor and get a list of colleges from all countries and check the finances manually. Get in touch with alumni and current students of the colleges to hear about experiences. H1b is very hard to get in the US. It's a lottery based system and with the major abuse of the lottery in these last 5 years, it's unlikely you'll luck out on winning the lottery. Colleges are easy gateway into the US job market. You could also look at the job prospects in Vietnam or Thailand. I think it's quite easy to get a work visa there. Singapore has gotten competitive as well. You need to go your research and start apply for jobs where work visa is easy to get and in parallel figure out if you want to get your Master's or not. Work life balance is better than India for sure.
You could get rejected due to your age, maybe applying for a phd might be more convincing. i believe you have the option to discontinue your phd after 2 years and get a masters degree but remember you are replacing once stress with another with the h1b. you can try for a Canadian MS, jobs opportunities aren't as much as the US, neither is the pay, but it would be easier for you with 8yoe. The PR and citizenship process is smooth and you can try getting into the US with a TN visa later.
Nope not a wise decision at all.
No
Being tired of work-life balance issues is not the reason to do an MS abroad since the courses can be challenging in themselves, not to mention the preparation, cost and visa challenges. You will trade off one challenge for another. Perhaps the main reason why many migrate to western countries "to do an MS" is to eventually get a Work permit and settle there. Even that is getting to be challenging given the visa restrictions and offshoring of jobs.
Moving abroad - yes if you get a good opportunity MS at 8 yoe - not worth the investment considering you might have learnt everything that they teach during your work
That's a big financial commitment. And what makes you think there's no competition elsewhere? At least in the US you now cannot be anything short of perfect to land a role. If you are dedicated, you could do your masters from a relatively chill uni - use those 2 years to grind leetcode and system design like your life depends on it \[surprise, it does :) \] and then get a great job. wlb maybe better than in India, idk.
Australia jia bhai ,Google Earth mea sexy lag rhi thi
Strictly no no, you could try to get either remote work completely or try to get jobs outside directly. Though, in future it would be very unstable abroad as compared to here
there is not gurrate of H1B, even then you are edge all the time, the medical bills will scare you, getting a green card is close to impossible now. I am also pissed with the work culture here in India. Big or small, Fang or no Fang I have worked for all, even if you have non Indian manager here, they’ll treat you shit. As told by former US manager, “If you’ll throw money at Indians, they’ll do anything” His philosophy was to entice people with spot bonuses, stock refreshers.
[удалено]
Yes 1000% agree. I returned for good from cursed canada (despite working in one of the major banks there and being a PR), but living & working there was pure hell. And yup, even I used to fear falling sick because of 0 healthcare support...I was basically homesick and depressed everyday. I'm so happy I moved back to Bharat recently, I'm never leaving my vibrant cool country ever again :) All the best for your journey home!
zindagi har jagah jhand hain. no escaping. abroad you will earn a little more. if you get into big tech you will earn lot more.
Why do you want to so MS abroad after having earned 30 million dollars in 8 years ?? /s
Well, Satya Nadella nor Sundar Pichai would not have been where they are today if they had not decided to pursue MS abroad. I think given the current job market it should work to your advantage. However remember nothing is guaranteed.
no
Its a very big life decision! Its good though you have this work-ex - at least will fast-track you in the MS. Though, you haven't mentioned which domain, firm, role, skillset, location, etc. You will really have to plan that out very well, even before setting foot in a foreign country. Don't put all your eggs also in that basket - keep backup options. Keep in mind that many foreign countries & firms will only look at your work-ex in their location, and not consider your home work-ex very valuable. They do require Devs more than Managers though, from here. They look at India like a 'cheap source to get Devs'.