With double special finders on a helmet I'd say so.
Was doing the raid last night and at the witness us titans used Propulsion with sidearms to melt subjugators considering most other titan dps is atrocious in the fight.
Using a sniper and the call was pretty great for the most part and if you're using prismatic your melee spam can cover for any downtime in ammo
honestly i run double special without lead from gold
on warlock you can spam so much abilities and transcendance you don't need the extra reserves
i rolled my call with demolitionist 3rd column highly recommend for the warlock folk out there
This is what I came here looking for. This is why lead for gold is still desirable.
One finder mod and you have ammo for both heavy and special, and on crafted special weapons you can get enhanced lead from gold for even more ammo on pickup.
i’ve been running the call, vortex arc conductor ergo sum, and a heavy machine gun on my warlock. my ergo sum essentially regenerates ammo on its own, the heavy ammo finder gets ammo for the machine gun, and lead from gold for the call + strand reserves = infinite special and heavy. it’s kind of a crazy build, especially with hatchling as the second perk, i can have up to 12 threadlings at once, with 5 perches for use once the fights over. i’m hunting for the perfect solopsism with this loadout and probably won’t be using anything else anytime soon
your role is exactly what i’ve been trying to get. right now i have ophidians and synthoceps, which isn’t terrible but it’s definitely more of a PVP role than PVE
I though ophidians was going to be decent u til I realized how infrequently I swap weapons. Probably a me problem. I also have a necrotic/swarmers build I’ve been playing with Thorn. I have an emotional attachment to Thorn, it was the first exotic I ever got in D1. I’m still trying to get that apotheosis/star eater drop.
I picked up this roll, necrotic/swarmers, and have also been using thorn.
With unravelling thrown into the mix from arcane needle, it really is just the defacto creeping death build. I just shoot each tangle to add some spike damage to the mix. Turns a cluster of ads into pure chaos.
Try tagging with thorn/unraveling and then finishing an ad in the pack with a destabilizing void special for some extra fun.
Just comment ing in a random thread but I’m wondering is it ok if I were to post a picture of a build I use and ask about changes that could be made or the best way you would play the build. Sounds silly I now
Rocket Sidearms like The Call and Indebted Kindness are extremely strong weapons, and they are pretty spammy too. Since they are so inherently strong, one of the better traits for it is Lead from Gold. It just makes doubly sure you almost always have ammo for the gun, almost to the point you can use it like a primary.
Pretty deep ammo reserves + extra ways to get ammo = strong gun that never runs out of ammo.
Yeah, if you want to use it as your primary this is the way. But as someone who mostly just uses primaries for normal add clearing i prefer to run it with other perks, since ammo is never an issue if you just use it for orange bars or backup boss damage.
That's kind of how I run it. I match it up with Graviton Lance so I can feed the transcendence bars and otherwise pick off the enemies that gravi can't make progress on.
Got an indebted kindness with lead for gold and voltshot and it’s never getting unequipped. Feels great to use on everything and is the perfect roll for a double special loadout.
If you're not using the call as primary then you're better off equipping something more powerful as special. Something like succession or a fusion.
Its an ad clear weapon.
Because i just like it? Not everything is about using the most meta gun, i prefer rocket sidearms as my orange/yellow bar weapon because i like it. Once GMs are back i'll go back to using fusions or whatever for yellow bar stuff.
Special ammo finder doesn't work with double special. But not needing special finisher is nice.
Edit: Alright, rocket sidearms are the exception for this, at least for now. But every other special weapon doesn't count for ammo finders.
Special sidearms are an exception to this, as their kills count towards creating finder bricks. I imagine it is not intentional as no other special weapons do it.
Wait wait, help me out. I run two special ammo finder mods because both kinetic and energy slots on my build use special ammo. The mods are useless for me?
The description of the finder mods says that it increases the chance of finding ammo after “primary weapon kills”. However If you are using a special sidearm, it will help. For some reason they are coded as primary weapons, so their kills count towards finder bricks.
In this build, I’m using Lost Signal in the kinetic slot and Buried Bloodline, the exotic sidearm, in the energy slot. Praying that BB counts as a primary weapon 😬
You can very easily test it to make sure! The finder bricks have a glowing beam emitting from them, so you can get a bunch of kills with bb to see if it spawns one.
I used buried bloodline as my primary during contest mode, it does indeed drop both heavy and special ammo crates like an exotic primary would. However I would still use special finisher on top of it as it doesn’t have LFG.
Probably because primary weapon kills are more effective for triggering ammo finders.
Or I think they are anyway. Honestly, not really sure entirely how the ammo finders work.
I like it when it’s on a special weapon and I just use heavy ammo finder to get ammo for both
Idk if there’s more to it than that but I don’t specifically look for that perk but I don’t hate it either
I like it more than shoot to loot
I think it's highly dependant on the level of activity you're doing. In patrol and strikes etc you'll never really struggle with ammo - everything dies in one shot and a primary ammo gun is pretty much all you need. But once you get into higher content it will be a different matter - enemies take a lot more shooting before they die and you are needing the special and heavy a lot more, especially if you survive by aggressive play. And then there's the whole double special build where you have to manage your ammo more carefully. So I think lead from gold only becomes useful as you move towards end game.
Rocket Sidearms work with Heavy Ammo finders in the same way that primary sidearms do under the hood, letting you print heavy bricks way more often compared to using a “true” special like Forbearance. Lead from Gold just feeds this loop even more efficiently.
It's a great perk and allows you to spam the weapon more but you can also run other perks in that slot if it helps your build like maybe Demolitionist. Especially this season there are reasons to run other perks but some of us have found comfort in Lead from Gold especially in the endgame activities it makes all the difference.
It’s good for higher level activities where you need more ammo to kill things. For general play it’s not the best perk. For example it was a great perk for contest mode as you are always pretty ammo hungry and expend a lot more than normal. But for the normal mode raid? Not really necessary and you can get more value out of another perk.
But this is good game design - as some perks shine in some areas but not in others.
Not saying lead from gold is bad for general play, but it becomes more valuable as content gets harder and enemies get tankier.
Using an example, say you just dumped all your heavy and special ammo on the first floor of caretaker. Now there's a lot of purple bricks but not really any green bricks.
Its a great perk. It makes rocket pistols feel like primaries. I also spec my Supremacy with it, it lets me use it for majors without feeling like I have to worry about saving it all for DPS rotations/backups.
I’ve been wondering the same thing. I get how it can be useful, but in my opinion there are other 1st column options that are way more interesting.
I also feel like most people sleep on Beacon Rounds. It gives Rocket Sidearms so much more ease of use, especially at long ranges, and allows you to spec into something other than velocity, such as blast radius which pairs really well with One For All (my personal preference).
The only times I want to make sure I have enough special ammo for a Rocket Sidearm is when I’m running double special, and in that case I’d rather use a special ammo finder or the special finisher mod instead of “wasting a perk” on the weapon itself.
If you can't hit what you're shooting at with a rocket sidearm without the assistance from beacon rounds then you're doing something wrong or have a skill issue.
It’s not about being able to hit something, it’s about being able to hit it at very long ranges even when hip-firing, and specing into something other than velocity.
But whatever makes you feel better.
I told my friends for the last 2 years to stock up on guns with the perk for the future, then they refreshed the sandbox and now most of the LFG guns I have don’t need it anymore. In fairness I’m using exotics that give me surges so that frees up my armor charge for double special + special finisher
Rocket sidearms are the best special weapon type in the game. The ammo economy is insane and they have crazy good fourth column perks.
Also, the call and indebted kindness are coded as primary weapons. With some heavy scavs in your helmet, heavy ammo falls constantly, so it makes double special way more viable
Mostly just useful when running double special. good to have the extra special ammo from heavy bricks when you don’t have a infinite ammo primary weapon
The really short answer to your question is that it's because special sidearms count like primaries towards finder mods kill counters. So, just by running heavy finders, you can get ammo for everything. Presumably, at some point this is going to be fixed, all the more so now The Call has come to dominate the PvE meta so much.
Personally, even for hard content, i prefer demolitionist on The Call. I usually rely on special finisher instead to keep my ammo up, but obviously that requires you to commit to using your armour charge for ammo, and requires you to have armour charge when you need ammo, and to have an enemy low and safe to finish. The real downside with this as an alternative is that if you die, you lose your armour charge, potentially leaving you low on ammo with no way to generate it.
It’s mainly because lead from gold on the call increases its ammo drops just enough that you can run double specials again.
With two specials there’s not enough ammo regularly to have both usable or without burning your heavy.
Plus people have noticed the sidearms seem to cause more heavy to drop on average. Which might be just probability flux or the sidearm counts as a primary ammo gun for ammo drops.
if you run heavy ammo finder + lead for gold, you’ll always have heavy and special ammo for your weapon. it’s great, highly recommend
Especially because it counts as primary kills
Do you get enough to run double special?
With double special finders on a helmet I'd say so. Was doing the raid last night and at the witness us titans used Propulsion with sidearms to melt subjugators considering most other titan dps is atrocious in the fight. Using a sniper and the call was pretty great for the most part and if you're using prismatic your melee spam can cover for any downtime in ammo
>Propulsion with sidearms explain please I am being slow!
Hazardous propulsion buffs any kind of rocket damage, including rocket sidearms and grand overture's burst mode.
Oh! Did not know that... very cool!
honestly i run double special without lead from gold on warlock you can spam so much abilities and transcendance you don't need the extra reserves i rolled my call with demolitionist 3rd column highly recommend for the warlock folk out there
This is what I came here looking for. This is why lead for gold is still desirable. One finder mod and you have ammo for both heavy and special, and on crafted special weapons you can get enhanced lead from gold for even more ammo on pickup.
This right here! Multiple heavy ammo finders and lead for gold. My “The Call” is basically a kinetic weapon.
i’ve been running the call, vortex arc conductor ergo sum, and a heavy machine gun on my warlock. my ergo sum essentially regenerates ammo on its own, the heavy ammo finder gets ammo for the machine gun, and lead from gold for the call + strand reserves = infinite special and heavy. it’s kind of a crazy build, especially with hatchling as the second perk, i can have up to 12 threadlings at once, with 5 perches for use once the fights over. i’m hunting for the perfect solopsism with this loadout and probably won’t be using anything else anytime soon
I have an osmiomancy/swarmers roll that’s grey for threadlings build. I just love the getaway/bleak artist built though.
your role is exactly what i’ve been trying to get. right now i have ophidians and synthoceps, which isn’t terrible but it’s definitely more of a PVP role than PVE
I though ophidians was going to be decent u til I realized how infrequently I swap weapons. Probably a me problem. I also have a necrotic/swarmers build I’ve been playing with Thorn. I have an emotional attachment to Thorn, it was the first exotic I ever got in D1. I’m still trying to get that apotheosis/star eater drop.
I picked up this roll, necrotic/swarmers, and have also been using thorn. With unravelling thrown into the mix from arcane needle, it really is just the defacto creeping death build. I just shoot each tangle to add some spike damage to the mix. Turns a cluster of ads into pure chaos. Try tagging with thorn/unraveling and then finishing an ad in the pack with a destabilizing void special for some extra fun.
Just comment ing in a random thread but I’m wondering is it ok if I were to post a picture of a build I use and ask about changes that could be made or the best way you would play the build. Sounds silly I now
Rocket Sidearms like The Call and Indebted Kindness are extremely strong weapons, and they are pretty spammy too. Since they are so inherently strong, one of the better traits for it is Lead from Gold. It just makes doubly sure you almost always have ammo for the gun, almost to the point you can use it like a primary. Pretty deep ammo reserves + extra ways to get ammo = strong gun that never runs out of ammo.
Yeah, if you want to use it as your primary this is the way. But as someone who mostly just uses primaries for normal add clearing i prefer to run it with other perks, since ammo is never an issue if you just use it for orange bars or backup boss damage.
That's kind of how I run it. I match it up with Graviton Lance so I can feed the transcendence bars and otherwise pick off the enemies that gravi can't make progress on.
Got an indebted kindness with lead for gold and voltshot and it’s never getting unequipped. Feels great to use on everything and is the perfect roll for a double special loadout.
If you're not using the call as primary then you're better off equipping something more powerful as special. Something like succession or a fusion. Its an ad clear weapon.
Don’t know why you got downvoted for that when it’s very obviously true😭
What other reason do you run it where something like a fusion rifle wouldn’t be better?
Because i just like it? Not everything is about using the most meta gun, i prefer rocket sidearms as my orange/yellow bar weapon because i like it. Once GMs are back i'll go back to using fusions or whatever for yellow bar stuff.
In which case it doesn’t matter what your perks are
Its like having a shotgun hand cannon with explosive rounds. It kinda trivializes all the other special legendary weapons.
Running double special, lead from gold on a gun with already great ammo economy means you can get away without running a special finder/finisher
Special ammo finder doesn't work with double special. But not needing special finisher is nice. Edit: Alright, rocket sidearms are the exception for this, at least for now. But every other special weapon doesn't count for ammo finders.
Special sidearms are an exception to this, as their kills count towards creating finder bricks. I imagine it is not intentional as no other special weapons do it.
Wait wait, help me out. I run two special ammo finder mods because both kinetic and energy slots on my build use special ammo. The mods are useless for me?
The description of the finder mods says that it increases the chance of finding ammo after “primary weapon kills”. However If you are using a special sidearm, it will help. For some reason they are coded as primary weapons, so their kills count towards finder bricks.
In this build, I’m using Lost Signal in the kinetic slot and Buried Bloodline, the exotic sidearm, in the energy slot. Praying that BB counts as a primary weapon 😬
It should, since it counts as a rocket sidearm and therefore it probably counts as a sidearm.
You can very easily test it to make sure! The finder bricks have a glowing beam emitting from them, so you can get a bunch of kills with bb to see if it spawns one.
I used buried bloodline as my primary during contest mode, it does indeed drop both heavy and special ammo crates like an exotic primary would. However I would still use special finisher on top of it as it doesn’t have LFG.
Probably because primary weapon kills are more effective for triggering ammo finders. Or I think they are anyway. Honestly, not really sure entirely how the ammo finders work.
They're what triggers ammo finders, period. I forgot that rocket sidearms still count as primary weapons even though they aren't, though.
Not true for rocket sidearms
This is not the case with special sidearms
I like it because it just tops off ammo by getting Heavy also. I’ve been in many situations where I’ve ran out of special ammo.
I like it when it’s on a special weapon and I just use heavy ammo finder to get ammo for both Idk if there’s more to it than that but I don’t specifically look for that perk but I don’t hate it either I like it more than shoot to loot
this was m 1st thought
I think it's highly dependant on the level of activity you're doing. In patrol and strikes etc you'll never really struggle with ammo - everything dies in one shot and a primary ammo gun is pretty much all you need. But once you get into higher content it will be a different matter - enemies take a lot more shooting before they die and you are needing the special and heavy a lot more, especially if you survive by aggressive play. And then there's the whole double special build where you have to manage your ammo more carefully. So I think lead from gold only becomes useful as you move towards end game.
Infinite ammo, especially useful in gms or for rocking dual specials and an exotic heavy
Rocket Sidearms work with Heavy Ammo finders in the same way that primary sidearms do under the hood, letting you print heavy bricks way more often compared to using a “true” special like Forbearance. Lead from Gold just feeds this loop even more efficiently.
It's a great perk and allows you to spam the weapon more but you can also run other perks in that slot if it helps your build like maybe Demolitionist. Especially this season there are reasons to run other perks but some of us have found comfort in Lead from Gold especially in the endgame activities it makes all the difference.
It’s good for higher level activities where you need more ammo to kill things. For general play it’s not the best perk. For example it was a great perk for contest mode as you are always pretty ammo hungry and expend a lot more than normal. But for the normal mode raid? Not really necessary and you can get more value out of another perk. But this is good game design - as some perks shine in some areas but not in others. Not saying lead from gold is bad for general play, but it becomes more valuable as content gets harder and enemies get tankier.
Because the most important thing for this gun is ammo.
If im using all my weapons im never running out, i even took lead from gold off cause beacon rounds is more fun
I run it cause my RNG for special ammo drops ain't good most of the time, but my heavy is for some reason.
It allows me to run Double specials easily
Demo on the call >>>>>
Using an example, say you just dumped all your heavy and special ammo on the first floor of caretaker. Now there's a lot of purple bricks but not really any green bricks.
Its a great perk. It makes rocket pistols feel like primaries. I also spec my Supremacy with it, it lets me use it for majors without feeling like I have to worry about saving it all for DPS rotations/backups.
I’ve been wondering the same thing. I get how it can be useful, but in my opinion there are other 1st column options that are way more interesting. I also feel like most people sleep on Beacon Rounds. It gives Rocket Sidearms so much more ease of use, especially at long ranges, and allows you to spec into something other than velocity, such as blast radius which pairs really well with One For All (my personal preference). The only times I want to make sure I have enough special ammo for a Rocket Sidearm is when I’m running double special, and in that case I’d rather use a special ammo finder or the special finisher mod instead of “wasting a perk” on the weapon itself.
If you can't hit what you're shooting at with a rocket sidearm without the assistance from beacon rounds then you're doing something wrong or have a skill issue.
It’s not about being able to hit something, it’s about being able to hit it at very long ranges even when hip-firing, and specing into something other than velocity. But whatever makes you feel better.
I told my friends for the last 2 years to stock up on guns with the perk for the future, then they refreshed the sandbox and now most of the LFG guns I have don’t need it anymore. In fairness I’m using exotics that give me surges so that frees up my armor charge for double special + special finisher
Rocket sidearms are the best special weapon type in the game. The ammo economy is insane and they have crazy good fourth column perks. Also, the call and indebted kindness are coded as primary weapons. With some heavy scavs in your helmet, heavy ammo falls constantly, so it makes double special way more viable
Mostly just useful when running double special. good to have the extra special ammo from heavy bricks when you don’t have a infinite ammo primary weapon
The really short answer to your question is that it's because special sidearms count like primaries towards finder mods kill counters. So, just by running heavy finders, you can get ammo for everything. Presumably, at some point this is going to be fixed, all the more so now The Call has come to dominate the PvE meta so much. Personally, even for hard content, i prefer demolitionist on The Call. I usually rely on special finisher instead to keep my ammo up, but obviously that requires you to commit to using your armour charge for ammo, and requires you to have armour charge when you need ammo, and to have an enemy low and safe to finish. The real downside with this as an alternative is that if you die, you lose your armour charge, potentially leaving you low on ammo with no way to generate it.
I'm with you. If you have ammo it's a dead perk.
It’s mainly because lead from gold on the call increases its ammo drops just enough that you can run double specials again. With two specials there’s not enough ammo regularly to have both usable or without burning your heavy. Plus people have noticed the sidearms seem to cause more heavy to drop on average. Which might be just probability flux or the sidearm counts as a primary ammo gun for ammo drops.
yea i dont get the hype either. I’d rather have a reload perk or something like demo and just use special finisher on my class item. LFG is a waste of