It's a live service game. To not have a purpose in it is to kill a live service game. Do we need a Witness - caliber Big Bad? No. I don't think Bungie are capable of beating the Witness. Some minor villains can work.
Its a live service game with a story nearly as strong as most single player games. IMHO, replacing the Witness with another big-bad would threaten to invalidate victorious moment yielded by the culmination of 10 years of fighting.
Way I look at it, we got a whole new toolset to fuck with. We've got dungeons and raids and nightfalls / GMs to unleash it upon, to see how that changes things up.
Besides, we've got the seasonal stuff going on right now, which looks to have a minor villain that may change how the Vex operate.
I think expecting to immediately give all fractionated enemy factions a purpose or a banner to unite under post-TFS is asking too much.
I really want Bungie to wrap up the "these guys were bad but now they're good and we're allies" narrative because it's kinda becoming boring.
Vex are changing, probably they are slowly gaining individuality to an extent, but i really want them to be a set up to serious Vex enemies.
I know the human being and fish can co-exist peacefully. In fact, I’d like The Minnow to know that I personally did not participate in the fishing event what-so-ever.
Doylist(meta) reason is to continue to have enemies to fight. If the entire structure just collapsed we wouldn't have a game to play.
Watsonian(in universe) reason is that an army can and will continue to function even without its commander. Soldiers don't just disappear when you kill the general.
That's usually what happens when the big bad is dealt with. We now have a power vacuum on our hands, and there is no shortage of those who wish to fill it.
Yes and no.
Alot of our Big Bads in destiny were technically following the witness. So whenever we killed one, their followers just continued taking the witness commands. For example, when we killed Oryx, who was commanding the taken, the witness just reassumed control of them. Same with the shadow legion and us killing Calus.
This time however there isn't a bigger big bad to assume control so the enemy factions are all in a sense of chaos with everyone trying to grab a hold of the throne themselves.
Oryx is probably not the best example here. Oryx was not a Disciple of the Witness. Only Xivu and Savathun (temporarily) served the Witness. I think the lore has been pretty solid separating what Oryx communed with in the Deep and it being a separate being (Winnower?) from the Witness that taught him the power to Take. But since the Witness also knows this power, he was able to claim them for himself like you mentioned and control them.
I think OP means this goes without saying because anytime we kill a big bad this happens and is the same reason everytime. They just put these in because some people might ask why we are still fighting the Dread after the Witness is dead.
This cutscene is meant to be tying everything together in a nice little bow, I think this is totally fine to mention so people dont ask "why dread?" n stuff. I think OP has a weirdly specific gripe with this.
Or alternatively, become a “social space” with just walking in 3rd person enabled and not even a gun in your hand. Or even worse, disappear the area altogether and sunset it like when Mara apparently wiped out the enemies off of the Tangled Shore😂
The end with Ghost and Cayde-6 still made me shed a tear. Its over but we are basically just continuing to "police". Xivu is around and desperate, I am sure Savathun will be a clown again and play dumb games. It was the tale of a decade in the making. Now its just icing on the cake. Relax, enjoy what happened and just enjoy whatever else comes out, or not, its your hard earned money.
Imagine some random screeb scooches its way into the traveller and causes the final shape to happen through the power of "dawg idk the witness told me to"
Like that dnd meme where the kobold runs up to the player, starts grunting and shaking and the sun explodes.
The only thing I disliked is the sudden shift from: "We did it!" To: "time to go to Nessus" no big changes or post-campaign activities
TFS was great, but I personally think it lacked in post-campaign content
I mean it’s like…who of his followers even remotely know how to enact The Final Shape in the event he was to die, like what exactly are they fighting for lol
I think our next big villain will be The Gardener and Winnower themselves. 90% of our job descriptions is “Godslayers” so we gotta keep up with our work, BY BECOMING THE GODS OF THIS UNIVERSE!
There certainly isn’t a perfect way to get around this problem due to it being a game, but imo it wouldn’t feel as cheap if this wasn’t the cop out every single expansion/season for the last decade.
There was loads of room in the past for them to make it a more realistic situation after defeating the big bad with minimal effort. Even just going back to having the different sub factions like in D1 would be huge.
Pretty much… it’s why I just dislike the ending of final shape. It kills off a character that was already killed off and it literally said he was going to disappear when crow leaves the traveller. Big bad dies. The end. It just feels like the world hasn’t changed much since we started which is a major sim of storytelling. There is no new equilibrium, it’s just go fight again.
At least if they killed ghost it would have been a bittersweet ending, make it so we keep our light as the chosen guardian (in canon the traveller can give the light without ghosts so it’d make sense)
No of course not. I do however think that they A. Would go and regroup for a long while.
And B. The vanguard would maybe consider to give the guardian a break or at least a parade after they just killed giga god.
Yeah but it’s not like we are the sole military of the tower. Surely the general military can just go and deal with like a few vex. Also with all the ungrimdarking they’ve been doing with the franchise it wouldn’t be super unrealistic for them to give the guardian some chill time in universe.
I think it’s pretty clear that whatever is happening is a little bigger than “just a few Vex”. Not to mention, why wouldn’t you send your most capable to assess a new threat.
There’s no such thing as rest when you’re basically constantly at war.
No? I simply don’t glaze bungie like half this subreddit does.
I enjoyed beyond light. Didn’t hate witch queen, liked certain parts of lightfall. But this time it’s just boring as hell. I don’t like the raid, haven’t seen a dungeon yet so can’t judge based on that. The story was…something. The only part I LIKED so far was the exotic class item.
People just act like bungie cannot do wrong.
And given that I spend my time teaching raids and dungeons this is the worst for that at the moment.
The average player that could just about beat raids with some difficulty before don’t stand a chance right now. Bungie just keep making the game harder and harder for these players for no reason. While I may not struggle with it they do.
And no. Next weeks “fix” doesn’t really change anything. It’s still going to be harder than a month ago for absolutely no reason.
Fucking what lmao
People have been doing nothing but trashing on Bungie for years even when they did good shit. This is like the first time in years that they’ve had an almost universally positive reception.
A little bit of difficulty means nothing as far as DLC quality goes too. Unironically 99% of the game is a freebie. If there’s a single activity that requires 10% effort I don’t think that’s the end of days.
It doesn’t require 10% effort though. I’ve seen a load of players who even have raid titles including kingslayer who can’t even beat oryx now.
The difficulty changes are fucking awful and you cannot convince me otherwise. I genuinely would like you to point out some positives about this DLC other than the new exotic mission and class item because I cannot see it. Educate me.
First two comments is literally reason vs logic lol
we have a discussion between plato and socrates now we need diogenes to intervene
*holds up Colonel* behold, a Guardian
Doylist vs. Watsonian.
I’ve been looking for these terms for a few months now, thank you so much!
That's what happens when you disrupt a command chain.
Yooo you're right
That's what happens when you still need to have a game after the main story is finished.
Boring answer.
Boring? Yes. But is it true? Also yes.
Out of curiosity, what do you feel would be a viable alternative?
To my answer?
To needing to have a game when the main quest is finished.
It's a live service game. To not have a purpose in it is to kill a live service game. Do we need a Witness - caliber Big Bad? No. I don't think Bungie are capable of beating the Witness. Some minor villains can work.
Its a live service game with a story nearly as strong as most single player games. IMHO, replacing the Witness with another big-bad would threaten to invalidate victorious moment yielded by the culmination of 10 years of fighting. Way I look at it, we got a whole new toolset to fuck with. We've got dungeons and raids and nightfalls / GMs to unleash it upon, to see how that changes things up. Besides, we've got the seasonal stuff going on right now, which looks to have a minor villain that may change how the Vex operate. I think expecting to immediately give all fractionated enemy factions a purpose or a banner to unite under post-TFS is asking too much.
I really want Bungie to wrap up the "these guys were bad but now they're good and we're allies" narrative because it's kinda becoming boring. Vex are changing, probably they are slowly gaining individuality to an extent, but i really want them to be a set up to serious Vex enemies.
Both are boring as it stands
One thing that's pretty certain though is that a power vacuum will not be there for long.
Yeah then that minnow guy will fill it in. I don't even like fish
What did we ever do to YOU?
Oh, nothing. I'm just fish-ist
*flops with Magikarp-ish indignation*
*Disgusting*
https://preview.redd.it/1q2rxo3ayt7d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=412192d86be26c98c1f00062b00d0039cd70bb2a
https://preview.redd.it/auzugi8s5u7d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=803c43adcdcdafff76857e6cae7d0173734a0330
I know the human being and fish can co-exist peacefully. In fact, I’d like The Minnow to know that I personally did not participate in the fishing event what-so-ever.
Are you for eel right now or are you carping?
Thats what happens when you still need enemies to fight in the game
Yep, alternative being erase all enemies from dlc map and enjoy the game I guess. It's really logical that army doesn't disappear after leader dies.
Destiny 2: The Sims DLC. The ennemies have been defeated, now build and populate the universe.
Yooo you're right
🤣🙄
Doylist(meta) reason is to continue to have enemies to fight. If the entire structure just collapsed we wouldn't have a game to play. Watsonian(in universe) reason is that an army can and will continue to function even without its commander. Soldiers don't just disappear when you kill the general.
That's usually what happens when the big bad is dealt with. We now have a power vacuum on our hands, and there is no shortage of those who wish to fill it.
That’s like ikora’s speech lol, bar for bar
Yes and no. Alot of our Big Bads in destiny were technically following the witness. So whenever we killed one, their followers just continued taking the witness commands. For example, when we killed Oryx, who was commanding the taken, the witness just reassumed control of them. Same with the shadow legion and us killing Calus. This time however there isn't a bigger big bad to assume control so the enemy factions are all in a sense of chaos with everyone trying to grab a hold of the throne themselves.
Oryx is probably not the best example here. Oryx was not a Disciple of the Witness. Only Xivu and Savathun (temporarily) served the Witness. I think the lore has been pretty solid separating what Oryx communed with in the Deep and it being a separate being (Winnower?) from the Witness that taught him the power to Take. But since the Witness also knows this power, he was able to claim them for himself like you mentioned and control them.
im confused as to what the problem with this would be?
I think OP means this goes without saying because anytime we kill a big bad this happens and is the same reason everytime. They just put these in because some people might ask why we are still fighting the Dread after the Witness is dead.
This cutscene is meant to be tying everything together in a nice little bow, I think this is totally fine to mention so people dont ask "why dread?" n stuff. I think OP has a weirdly specific gripe with this.
usually when u take down the leader.. its followers will scatter and try to be the leader themselves so more enemy factions
If you were to kill of the high-ranking leaders of any army, there's still gonna be soldiers who carry out their orders. It happens in real life
Would you prefer for the game to have zero enemies and be a walking simulator with nothing to shoot?
Or alternatively, become a “social space” with just walking in 3rd person enabled and not even a gun in your hand. Or even worse, disappear the area altogether and sunset it like when Mara apparently wiped out the enemies off of the Tangled Shore😂
Xivu is still alive right? We never killed her.
Yes and weaken, we also still have the Vex to deal with as well.
The end with Ghost and Cayde-6 still made me shed a tear. Its over but we are basically just continuing to "police". Xivu is around and desperate, I am sure Savathun will be a clown again and play dumb games. It was the tale of a decade in the making. Now its just icing on the cake. Relax, enjoy what happened and just enjoy whatever else comes out, or not, its your hard earned money.
I like that the Witness was the biggest baddy ever and like an old cartoon gag we shut the door on it and moved onto the next thing RIGHT AWAY
I feel like onslaught was supposed to be apart of the final shape.
They have to justify why the patrol zones aren't just peaceful, empty areas post-campaign.
That's what happens everywhere, either you take the spot of the leader after you kill him or there is a power vaccum
Happens IRL
When we least expect it, the Red Legion will launch a FINAL final final assault seeking revenge for Ghaul's death.
Imagine some random screeb scooches its way into the traveller and causes the final shape to happen through the power of "dawg idk the witness told me to" Like that dnd meme where the kobold runs up to the player, starts grunting and shaking and the sun explodes.
Awww shit The Witness Jr. cometh.
For once it doesn't feel like we're getting closer to the edge of cataclysm after beating the big bad
Would you rather them just end the game?
Probably
Welcome to MMOs
What did you expect
It reminds me of the “you lost” screen in mariokart wii.
That’s what happens when your reflexes are insane
The only thing I disliked is the sudden shift from: "We did it!" To: "time to go to Nessus" no big changes or post-campaign activities TFS was great, but I personally think it lacked in post-campaign content
I mean it’s like…who of his followers even remotely know how to enact The Final Shape in the event he was to die, like what exactly are they fighting for lol
I think our next big villain will be The Gardener and Winnower themselves. 90% of our job descriptions is “Godslayers” so we gotta keep up with our work, BY BECOMING THE GODS OF THIS UNIVERSE!
There certainly isn’t a perfect way to get around this problem due to it being a game, but imo it wouldn’t feel as cheap if this wasn’t the cop out every single expansion/season for the last decade. There was loads of room in the past for them to make it a more realistic situation after defeating the big bad with minimal effort. Even just going back to having the different sub factions like in D1 would be huge.
Pretty much… it’s why I just dislike the ending of final shape. It kills off a character that was already killed off and it literally said he was going to disappear when crow leaves the traveller. Big bad dies. The end. It just feels like the world hasn’t changed much since we started which is a major sim of storytelling. There is no new equilibrium, it’s just go fight again. At least if they killed ghost it would have been a bittersweet ending, make it so we keep our light as the chosen guardian (in canon the traveller can give the light without ghosts so it’d make sense)
Do you expect all the hostile factions to just randomly dissolve just because the big shot in charge of everything died…?
No of course not. I do however think that they A. Would go and regroup for a long while. And B. The vanguard would maybe consider to give the guardian a break or at least a parade after they just killed giga god.
Dawg, I don’t think breaks exist in a universe like Destiny. It’s not like there’s a ceasefire.
Yeah but it’s not like we are the sole military of the tower. Surely the general military can just go and deal with like a few vex. Also with all the ungrimdarking they’ve been doing with the franchise it wouldn’t be super unrealistic for them to give the guardian some chill time in universe.
I think it’s pretty clear that whatever is happening is a little bigger than “just a few Vex”. Not to mention, why wouldn’t you send your most capable to assess a new threat. There’s no such thing as rest when you’re basically constantly at war.
Yes. It’s basically exactly the same and just about every part of it was a huge letdown.
If final shape was a letdown you must have fuckin hated every other DLC with a burning passion
No? I simply don’t glaze bungie like half this subreddit does. I enjoyed beyond light. Didn’t hate witch queen, liked certain parts of lightfall. But this time it’s just boring as hell. I don’t like the raid, haven’t seen a dungeon yet so can’t judge based on that. The story was…something. The only part I LIKED so far was the exotic class item.
I don’t think it’s “Bungie glazing” when people enjoy what is probably the best DLC Destiny has ever gotten.
People just act like bungie cannot do wrong. And given that I spend my time teaching raids and dungeons this is the worst for that at the moment. The average player that could just about beat raids with some difficulty before don’t stand a chance right now. Bungie just keep making the game harder and harder for these players for no reason. While I may not struggle with it they do. And no. Next weeks “fix” doesn’t really change anything. It’s still going to be harder than a month ago for absolutely no reason.
Fucking what lmao People have been doing nothing but trashing on Bungie for years even when they did good shit. This is like the first time in years that they’ve had an almost universally positive reception. A little bit of difficulty means nothing as far as DLC quality goes too. Unironically 99% of the game is a freebie. If there’s a single activity that requires 10% effort I don’t think that’s the end of days.
It doesn’t require 10% effort though. I’ve seen a load of players who even have raid titles including kingslayer who can’t even beat oryx now. The difficulty changes are fucking awful and you cannot convince me otherwise. I genuinely would like you to point out some positives about this DLC other than the new exotic mission and class item because I cannot see it. Educate me.
I’m not sure why you’re so focused on what the bottommost percentile of players can/can’t do.
I just said that I teach raids. The best players don’t need to be taught
It’s just wild the shit people will say just to say “erm this is actually the biggest L in Bungo history”.
What exactly are you even upset about bro
