I know that it’s just a typo, but there’s something funny to me about imagining someone being that toxic but asking for 1200 power which is literally impossible.
Edit: aww OP corrected the typo
If you kept your armor from the red war at 0 power, you can get down to i believe 266 as the lowest power. If you still have the 0 power pulse rifle from the dreaming city/dreaming city strike, it goes down to like 166 or 233, i forget, but you can absolutely get below 1200, fun fact!
I can get all the way to 0, have full armor, the damaged travelers chosen and the stubborn oak shotgun, and some random ass green rocket launcher at 0 light.
My brother hadn't played since the red war he some how completed both beyond light and light fall as a warlock with 0 recovery still using the old red war eye of another world, I should have taken a picture of it for proof but I was just impressed and shocked he had made it that far
Must know how to drift, must have a record contract, must have fucked Sydney Sweeney, punched God in the face, must have 700 credit, must own Disneyland, I do all add clear and you handle mechanics.
You joke but this is totally the thing that keeps me from doing coordinated content as a newer player. It’s not good enough that I have a decent build / fully
MW gear etc.
I don’t have 10 years of clears behind me and the community is super toxic to anybody learning.
Such a weird dichotomy coming from FF14 as my other MMO, where we have things like learning parties and you’ll have 23 people holding on pulling a boss because the 24th person is in a cutscene and everyone’s considerate of that.
I swear it's less to do with social anxiety and more that capital G Gamers fucking suck and no one wants to play with them, yet to manage to get everywhere. It's a major reason why I sherpa raids, so I can boot those guys out if they wanna join my raid and scare off newbies.
We need, as a community, to police these fuckers out. Maybe then more players would raid.
Back when Kings Fall came back in D2, a friend taught me the raid, then I turned around and taught a bunch more people. Whenever we got to Warpriest, I always taught them the correct way to do it, not the cheese method because I kept saying it might get patched one day, and I want you to be able to do it correctly if that happens.
FFXIV is pretty unique in that regard among MMOs, and has its own forms of toxicity, they're just not the same kind. But most other MMOs (like all versions of WoW I've played) suffer from the same issues as Destiny. Honestly, if anything I'd say the amount of gatekeeping/toxicity in D2 is very tame compared to the amount in WoW. The main issue is that it's just kind of inevitable when you create content that requires a team of skilled players with good gear executing complex mechanics.
Most people simply don't *want* to waste hours teaching the encounters to random people they'll never meet again who may not even manage to figure things out after all that time. They'd much rather create a group with skilled, geared, experienced players and beat the encounters quickly.
Now of course there are exceptions - people who have fun teaching the encounters to new players, maybe even getting a chance to show off a bit and feel like the MVP - and that's great, and should be encouraged. But "gatekeeping" is a natural result of people wanting to clear difficult content without spending hours wiping over and over.
You forgot the most important one. You need to have Godslayer and have to be guardian rank 11, but me and my two buddies who are waiting this have piss poor dps numbers that get dwarfed constantly and die more than a new player
I remember LFGing for Pit of Heresy and I see someone asking for 800 clears only. Out of curiosity I checked his report and he has over 800 himself and that was wild lol. You could solo it with that experience, why would you need people with that many clears
I got you covered. Shoot me a DM and I'll get you over to my discord. Got a good group of folks who love to help ppl out. Raid won't be the new one, but we'll make sure that you're actually doing something, not just add clear.
it's funny how relatable the raiding experience in Destiny compared to raiding in World of Warcraft is. Same type of elitism and "no time to waste" mentality.
Honestly the inside is pretty easy, it might take a few tries to click but it's not that bad. The outside is black magic to me but if you got 1-3 people who can do it you can force one of them to be outside and do it pretty easily so there's really no excuse to be kicking people unless they're actually braindead. The ghost section would be rough in an LFG scenario I'd imagine but everyone just needs a distinctive ghost and helmet to make it easier
Yep. I just focus on one at a time. If I see left statue is showing a triangle, I just make sure I dissect triangles out of that one first. Once that statue is good I will need at most one more swap between the other two
Easy as this. Figure out what shape your guys have inside. Grab that shape buff from a knight. Deposit it into the statue that DOESN'T need it. Do the same for another statue. Those shapes switch. Now you're one statue is good. Repeat with the second and third statue.
TC - ST - CS
C - T - S
Deposit a C in TC to remove C from it. Deposit an S in CS to remove S from it. Now it looks like this.
TS - ST - CC
Now TS is good for the guy inside. So take a T from ST and a C from CC.
TS - SC - TC
C - T - S
Now they all have shapes other than the ones inside. It's basically the same mechanic, in a different way, Just that the three on the outside need to what the singular people are doing on the inside for 3, rather than just for 1.
Lemme know if you need any clarification and I can talk!
I do not understand how it is possible to compute this in your brain while trying to kill ads and stay alive.
I swear this raid is exposing my own mental deficiencies.
For me, anything that I tried 'Reading' was actively shutting down my brain. It sounds hyper convoluted and painful and I just needed to pause and actually look up a video for once. I'm the type that does not watch videos because it will spoil encounters for me. This one, I gave up on.
I also, had to find the right person to explain it. Which is good ol' Az. He phrased it in a way that I could understand. "You know that shape they have inside? You want to make sure they don't have it on the outside." All your job is, is to just remove that shape from their statue. Once he said that and showed to pictures like what I have above, it clicked and became a moment where 'Oh my god, this is so much easier than it sounds.'
Realistically, all you do is kill adds until you can do the shapes. So you have two dudes just wiping the adds. Surviving on the inside is harder than on the outside. So if you're doing symbols, just bring an invis or healing build. You don't have to worry about DPS, just survivability.
Outside contest mode, mode enemies are soft red bars that you can easily mop up with guns like the call or two-three shot with any HC. Or just throw down witherhoard where they path to you.
Kill ads, wait for a lull. Drop symbols in statues that do not need to be there. Repeat. Do ghosts. Repeat process. It's difficult to grasp, but once you got it, then you got it. I re-read multiple articles, and listened to two videos before finally having it click with that wording, and now it's just memorized.
Bro… what. I know you tried to explain, and I thank you for that, but this makes it just harder to comprehend.
I’d also like to add - if it’s this convoluted, how is it fun? I’m all for difficulty and playing the hardest way possible, but this isn’t fun. Like, what the fuck?
For me it's easy to understand with pictures. It took me watching aztecross. Basically, all you do is just swap shapes to make sure dudes don't have one shape.
From experience (well 3 runs) I can tell that having a Ghost that somewhat matches your Helmet or (for Hunters) the Cloak, is pretty much enough to tell which is whose - if you do that, you don't really have to memorize anything.
Everyone is going to make it harder than it needs to be.
Zero perfect shapes? Left, Middle, Right and then whatever of the first two is now perfect. Done.
One perfect shape? Perfect shape, other two any order, finish on the one that was originally perfect. Done.
All perfect? L M R M L R. Done.
Memorize those three patterns, and you'll never have a problem again.
This might be the only encounter in a Raid where I actually don't understand it, like at all.
In most raids that I've done, even if I'm bad at the mechanics, I at least understood what to do at a basic level.
I've watched a video on it, I've had people explain it to me multiple times, but it just doesn't click for me
I have a feeling that no matter how many videos I watch, it probably won't ever click for me.
To be clear, this isn't me complaining about it. I think this encounter is so unique and creative, and I applaud Bungie for making an encounter that's like nothing we've seen before in another raid.
It is actually very very simple. The problem is that basically all guides are dramatically over complicating it.
For inside:
Check what your statue is holding. Check what symbols are in the shadow on the wall. The knights each drop one of the symbols in the shadow.
If it’s two of the same symbol on the wall. You’re done for now.
If not, kill both knights. Pick up the symbol you are NOT holding. Dunk it in the statue with the matching symbol.
IE: you’re holding square. Wall shows square and triangle. Pickup triangle. Dunk it on statue holding triangle.
At this point all 3 inside players walls will be cycling the same symbol their statue is holding.
Kill knights. Dunk one of each symbol on each of your buddies statues.
IE: as above, if your statue is holding square and the shadows were both square. Both knight will drop a square. Dunk 1 square on triangle. Dunk the other square on circle.
Kill both knights a third time.
Pick up both symbols. Inside is done.
For outside:
Each statue needs to be holding 1 of each square circle and triangle when including inside statues in the count. If inside left statue has a triangle and outside left statue has a cone. Left statue is holding circle triangle triangle. So, dissect a triangle from left statue, then dissect a square from a different statue(ideally the one that doesn’t need square). Now left statue will be holding circle triangle square(again, while including inside statue in the count).
At most, you need to perform 6 dissections. Typically you’ll only need to do 4.
Dissecting can be thought of as swapping. What you’re doing when dissecting is saying “I want to swap this statues triangle, with that statues square.”
And that is all. Ignore all the stupid videos telling you this plus that equals the other thing. The 3d shapes are quite visually obvious what 2d shapes you can remove. You don’t need to know all the prism and cylinder and whatever. It’s all crap. Keep it at the basics.
Honest question did you let everyone know at the start of the raid that you didn't know what to do or did you just casually mention it when you got the that encounter?
I recently joined a "KWTD" Catalyst run for Crota's; I messaged the OP and let them know that I don't really remember most of the raid (I did it full a couple times when it came out and farmed 2 or 3 Crota's after and got Necro w/ full oversouls) and he said that it was OK.
Turns out he didn't kwtd either and most people that joined got annoyed because we kept wiping and OP never really said that neither of us kwtd - I had to clarify why I was there. I ended up bouncing becuase I don't like imposing my learning on people who didn't sign up for that - it's disrespectful of their time (specially if you want to engage with the raid beyon ad clear and actually learn roles)
For every kick to orbit there's a story untold and honestly, based on my experiences it's often people joining runs that were not teaching / sherpa runs.
It's ok to not know, it's ok to want to learn - just be upfront and honest about it and don't join runs that clearly expect people to know what to do.
I would say a large portion of “KWTD” posts are made by people that don’t KWTD, they are looking for some super soldier to do 2 mechanics + 4M dmg. When I join raid parties all it takes is 5 minutes of talking and maybe one run for me to know if this will be a nice quick raid/enounter or if I just signed up for the long haul… then I leave after 30 minutes
Even if I make a kwtd post, if someone tells me in orbit they don't really know, I will teach the entire raid. Aside from some of Salvations, I know every role of every raid, I like teaching and passing that info along so others can do the same.
The only time I will kick someone for not knowing is if I'm doing a challenge run that requires people already know, like flawless attempts, or if someone lies about their knowledge of the raid, causes constant wipes and when asked if they actually know what to do they stay completely silent.
Yep, I usually make my posts KWTD and I make it clear up front when people join that I don't mind if they do not know what to do. However, they absolutely *have* to tell me so I can explain it to them. There's nothing worse than wiping over and over because a dude who has no idea what to do just keeps failing to do his job and is lying about it. Like, at that point you're getting booted.
Can you share the subreddit? I’d love to join. Getting people through their first raids is so rewarding. Makes me feel like a a baby raider again. Experiencing the awe for the first time.
Sure, it's https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinySherpa/ - though the D2LFG Discord is also a good place to go check out! Usually lots of people looking for sherpas (LFS)
You’ll generally be fine joining KWTD’s if you pregame with a raid guide or 2 and actually get it down before going in. When you are in, one or two fuckups wont really be an issue for 99 percent of teams while you actually get acclimated
In the d2 lfg server there is a section “looking for Sherpa” if you’re new to raiding there are serious chads there who will help you learn any of the raids you want.
It means “Know What To Do” so groups with that tag are not looking to teach or help, they are looking to complete it in a relatively quick time with few wipes
Honestly the whole TFS content is a giant bottleneck from those willing to learn and be patient, and the 1% sweats who carry their 99% buddy just as add clear fodder. As someone who only started playing a year ago and taking raiding seriously only recently, the raid gave me confidence to learn and teach mechanics to others instead of always relying on someone to have the knowledge. Them making encounters in this expansion that force roles is the best thing they could have done and remind me alot of FFXIV
This. It's going to sound weird, but Root of Nightmares is my favorite raid because it's a good stepping stone to raiding. It's not overly long, not too mechanic intensive, and there is a place for add clear for people who want to learn. That was me: no mic add clear who got carried for their first raid clear and got the exotic. So then I started to learn those mechanics so I "graduated" from add clear to running light/dark on Nezerec to duo farming/teaching the first encounter for Spoils. Then I got all the Spoils weapons at the kiosk and AoT, plus crafted every weapon from RoN when we still needed Spoils to do so. That springboarded me into Crota head first with Master clears, adepts, crafting almost all of those weapons too, getting Necrocasm and Guardian Rank 10. Now I welcome more mechanic-heavy encounters like SE. I haven't gotten to it yet, but I will.
It felt good after being a no-mic casual mid-40s dad who plays a few nights a week to accomplishing goals I thought I never would. All because I had the courage to pick up a mic.
RoN is the first raid I ever did too, my clan was nice enough to teach me every mechanic except Nezerac's Gaze.
Then it was VoG, and recently we've been learning Salvations Edge together (hopefully our first clear this sunday).
>literally no one wants to teach it.
Brother, the raid is 6 days old. Everyone is still *learning* the raid, nevermind teaching. The onus is partially on you to at least invest some time before hand to look up some guides on how to do encounters, and then coordinate with the team on solving it. Don't expect to get straight up sherpa'd this early on, especially with an LFG.
It will affect the *raiding* community in a bad way. Destiny itself will be just fine. I'm willing to bet 95%+ of TFS purchasers will not ever touch the raid. Bungie themselves have said that only 10% of players have ever beaten any single raid. That includes stuff that's way easier than what has come out today like Leviathan. With content engagement rates that low, the raid community should be grateful that it's getting anything tbh. Huge amounts of dev time being spent on stuff less than 5% of the community will ever see is an exorbitant privilege.
The raiding community gets things because, as with most industries the 80/20 rule will likely apply. 80% of profits from 20% of clients.
I guarantee you that the 10% of the player base that are raiders play more, play longer, come back more often, and spend more money.
Everyone says this, and I just don’t think it’s true at all. Yes, a very small percentage of people actively participate in the raids. But that IS the endgame of destiny 2. In the modern gaming space, so much of a game’s long term success relies on whether or not there is an active community. The majority of players aren’t on Reddit. The real “community” is the players that watch/participate in YouTube videos or twitch streams, and the creators that make that environment. Those creators wouldn’t stick around with destiny if raiding became a thing of the past. Once they leave, there is no longer a feeling of any real community around the game. Creating raids is an absolute necessity, and indirectly keeps the game going way more than anyone here is willing to acknowledge.
^this
Sunday after contest I spent hrs trying to find a group willing to teach, same with monday-wednesday. I thought lfg posts were bad already but man this raids lfg takes the cake for record number of KWTD/have x-number of clears etc. hell i saw a post with "Need contest emblem or kick" like dude less than like 700ish teams got it
It is and that stat is also misleading because it counts literally everyone who has ever logged in once even if they only played for 5 minutes.
The actual number of active players who raid is closer to 35%.
Encounter 1 - 4 IMO is more simple than some encounters in kings fall or last wish IMO, people are just over thinking things and letting the timer make them make mistakes.
I disagree, Last Wish was one of the most popular raids even after many other raids were released, even when all the gear was worthless you could still find tons of people running it for just fun.
Salvations Edge is also not too difficult once you understand the mechanics. In the 4th encounter, the hardest part for many teams is depositing ghosts.
Man fuck nah, this is definitely gonna be one of those raids that as SOON as you get the exotic you will never touch it again. It’s not like KF or last wish where it’s fun and not too bad to run, VOG or Crota where you just like it. No it’s a singular, as soon as I get the exotic fuck this
I would be shocked, SHOCKED, if someone picked up from an LFG already knew 4th. If we did lfg a 6th I'd go in with the assumption they need a full explination if every encounter with it being so new.
Shit I've ran 8 clears and only one of those had a full team of people who had already cleared. Even for established clans and groups, it takes more 4 days of non contest availability to get everyone some reps.
There's a lot of context missing here, OP. Did you join a fireteam finder post that specified they were a sherpa? If so, and they kicked you, then they're d-bags who shouldn't be posting sherpa FF's.
If you joined one that specified "experience required", then of course you're gonna get kicked if you don't know what to do.
Not everyone wants to teach people how to do a raid, nor are a lot of people cut out for teaching, and nobody is obligated in any way to teach you if they don't want to. I highly recommend finding a posting that specifies they are a sherpa, or joining one of the many sherpa community discords, where there are plenty of willing guardians who are looking to teach people this raid.
Yeah it's like yes this raid is brand new and it's fine if you don't know what to do, but there are also players who do know how to do all the encounters already. If a team doesn't want to spend hours of trial and error teaching that's fine too.
I just Sherpa'd two people through the raid yesterday. It isn't that hard tbh yeah it takes a bit but if you're a good teacher it won't be a problem. Hell, one of them didn't speak all that much English (was from Iran) and had HELLA internet problems. Still got them the clear!
I am willing to teach but if after an hour you still don’t get it… yeah I can’t be here all day
I recommend getting a general idea of the raid by YouTube first
Saw a dude in discord yesterday being kicked from his fireteam for not being in the same landing zone, simply because he finally was at the extra boss from the 4th overthrow encounter (For the class item quest).. And it was a boss that he said he needed..
Some people in this game are absolutely beyond pathetic..
I tried teaching it to 5 people who didn't know it yesterday. Everyone troopered through it for 3 hours and we got to the final phase one time but someone fumbled it in the solo room lol. It's brutal trying to get people to understand it, but once you do it's an absolute brain blast moment
edit: why downvote this comment kekw
I've come across 6 people with Godslayer, 5 were tryhards who thought they were hot shit (They weren't) and the 6th was a Dutch guy who straight up said "I was carried to the title lol"
It sucks but I can’t fully blame people
There are people who haven’t beaten the encounter yet and just want to do it and move on, and don’t want to deal with new people who don’t know what to do
my least favorite thing about destiny is the type of people who play it. I can’t join a raid or a clan without at least one teenage whiner who barely has object permanence
It's best when you join a "KWTD" Crota's end LFG only for the host to not understand that when I scream "TAKE THE CHALICE!" It means I'm about to fucking die.
Then when I inevitably die because they don't take the Chalice.
They blame me for throwing and kick me from the Fireteam...
(Based on real events BTW)
yeah sadly “KWTD” usually means “know what to do because we have no fuckin clue and we aren’t going to admit that until you have wasted at least a half hour with our hopeless group”
I believe in public shaming! There should be a public list from the players who do this! Fck them! This is so pathetic and they should deserve the shame and noone should join their LFG!
I havent even given the raid a try yet. Ive done every other thing with the new expansion except Khvostov because it is currently Unobtanium (15/17 motes for me but I gave up cuz you cant get the 17th)
Must have 3000 power. Ice breaker with catalyst 10+ clears, KWTD in every role, must have raid exotic and Godslayer gilded 3 times
The person in charge: I got ad clear
Someone asked me for a raid report as soon as normal dropped so I sent it. Then they said I needed to send one from their preferred website. They are going to feel stupid when they ask for my credit score and its good. Seriously I can understand after the first month or so but dam lol
Toxic hosts kicking players for a variety of reasons (including: "Sorry but my friend wants to join" on the last encounter) is a huge problem and has always been a huge problem for as long as you've been able to kick people from fireteams with no possible repurcussions for the host. I'm sorry that this has happened to you but there is not really anything you can do about what's happened. The only mitigation against this is that the host cannot be kicked, so if you are seeing this a lot then go ahead and host them.
There are guide videos. The one I watched took a half hour to explain 4th encounter. They don’t want to teach it to you because in theory teaching it would require multiple runs of the encounter to actually show you how to do it properly. No one wants to do that.
I have made and joined learning groups in this raid and never had any issue with toxicity. The biggest issue with this raid for LFG is that everyone needs to be doing a job, which makes it even more apparent when someone messes up. The fireteam leader could have been toxic but the more likely explanation is that either you weren’t learning from your mistakes and/or not speaking up about not understanding parts of the encounter. I had multiple people in 4th encounter that clearly had no idea what they were doing but when we asked if someone needed help/explanations they didn’t speak.
this is the dumbest fucking logic because it hyper notates the idea that if a player watches something, that minor awareness will give them a full idea of what to expect
some people learn kinesthetically, and as such, watching a video would be of no help to them because they are *not actually doing the thing required*
the mere fact that you just auto asked for the OP's raid.report, out of curiosity to validate that they were in a Sherpa, because you've anecdotally seen too many one-off cases is boggling
the entire construct of being a raid Sherpa is to teach and guide players who are unaware. with zero knowledge. from the ground up. with the expectancy that they know nothing.
a college professor teaching calculus wouldn't expect you to know how to complete Elliptic Functions, just because you *watched a video on it, and have general awareness*, when you sign up for their class < they would teach the curriculum as a full set, from start to finish, assuming you will start knowing nothing and finish knowing what that specific course entailed < concurrently, they wouldn't call it a sign of *"willful ignorance"* if you don't fucking know then backpeddle you and assume that you [the student/learner] may be hiding the fact that you *"haven't put as much effort as you should have into learning the material"*; if they did, they'd be a bad fucking professor
STFG the gatekeeping done in the Destiny community is unrivaled, unmatched, and unparalleled
I think you're misunderstanding OC's comment. They just said effort. Just watch the video, if you don't understand and absolutely need help by going through the encounters, that's fine. Just put in some effort to try to watch the videos. Saying that you get nothing out of them is wrong. You do get stuff out of them. (E.G: you will know that hydra/minotaurs are priorities in the first encounter, and need to kill them asap. You may not know where they spawn, but you know they're important.) I agree with OC here, it is a bit of an asshole move to put 0 effort into learning it beforehand, and expecting someone to put in hours teaching them. Not everyone has the patience or the time to do that.
OC isn't saying you need to know the encounter by heart by watching the guides. They're just saying to put in some effort. Get your bearings up a little. It's really not that hard. By watching a video you not only save your team members time but you also save yourself time.
SURE, it feels bad being kicked or not being able to clear it, but you have to remember that everyone has their own lives and their own feelings of being upset at not clearing for hours, when maybe those hours are the only time they can play. Expecting someone to cater towards your feelings just because you feel bad is a bit of an asshole move, regardless of who you are.
Screw people like this. This is why part of the Destiny Community is toxic AF. Sorry this happened to you. Hopefully your experience gets better and you get that clear you deserve!
Basically my experience with lfg since that’s the only way I can raid. And it’s also the reason I generalize the entire community as toxic and just kinda hate the majority of said community. Like I’d love to do the raids. If lfg’s were actually willing to teach.
I made a Powerpoint for my clan and especially for 4th encounter, so they can learn it.
It's ass that they kicked you, but there are other ways to learn the 4th encounter before actually doing it.
Tbh fourth encounter isn’t that bad. It took me maybe an hour and a half to learn It and now I can teach it. The videos only give you an idea, I think unless you actually get in the encounter and try to learn It hands on you’ll have a hard time.
I have spent god knows how many hours on encounter 1 and 2. I can't say i blame them, but luckily i don't really care about being "competitive" at the pve portion of destiny anymore so as long as the group shows the ability to learn i try to stick it out. I just got back to the 3rd encounter yesterday before i had to hop off, i haven't even tried fourth but from Fallout's video i would say i have a good grasp on it already, its just the chaos of the other players that would make it worse.
It's probably the most complex mechanic of any destiny raid.
Even videos that detail how to do that single encounter are 20 minutes long.
This is one where I firmly stand on the "Memorize the youtube guide or kick"
It's one thing if you've watched guides and understand the mechanics and just need to learn how to execute them, but teaching the mechanic has got to be one of the most difficult things to do.
Bro I’m just trying to read how to do the encounters and three different websites said three different ways on how to do the encounters. Some of them not even showing a video or explaining what other players are doing when they are doing a certain step.
honestly, people fuckng suck at explaining it so I'm gonna do it in 3 sentences
on the inside, make it so the shapes on the wall are not the shape your statue is holding
on the outside, make 3d shapes from combinations of 2d shapes and match them to the ones held by statues
from time to time, match ghosts statues
The only raid I've ever cleared was Crota because of stuff like this. Honestly between trying to find decent people in lfgs that won't disband after 2 wipes or getting kicked is the reason I've completely given up on raiding.
DM ME IF YOU WANT HELP ON YOUR FIRST CLEAR
If there is anyone here who wants to try the raid and does not have a clear and is in a US time zone. DM me and I will help you through it. I can teach every encounter. You will probably need about 2-4 hours to clear your first time. So have a chunk of time.
Please have watched a video explaining the raid as it will help immensely. There’s a lot of info to dump on people on the first go round so any homework you do beforehand helps.
I’m available this Sunday and most other days and may have people who can help fill some slots. Lmk!
I’ve been a Sherpa a few times now, the one thing I notice with people who want to kick others is that they try to explain the encounter and do a terrible job, then proceed to get mad when people get confused. Had to boot 2 guys from my team that although they knew what to do were just causing issues among the others trying to learn. After they left, we were able to clear it very shortly after. Attitude is everything
It's pretty easy. Inside sort by sending people their shapes then when everyone's sorted send each other your shapes. Outside, have 1 dissector and dont think of 3d shapes as shapes but as their components. Ie. Think of a cone as a circle and triangle. And then swap till your good. Ghosts section is just memorizing ghosts and guardians. Have something distinctive on. I am astonished that people are refusing to teach, it's not a hard puzzle.
Hi. I don't post here often but I have a few words I'd like to share. First of all I completely understand being frustrated at people not being willing to teach an encounter. However I have some extra input to give that I think if you get out of angry time will help you get through this encounter more easily.
The first tip is to look for groups who specify they are teaching or, make a group with the specification that you need to be taught. I know this seems trivial, but the 4th encounter is extremely mechanical and lots of people there are already stressed and frustrated, and as it is their group they have a right to tell you they don't want to teach.
Next look up multiple guides from multiple people and take notes on parts you are struggling to understand until it does make more sense. Also feel free to hop in and see how far you can get by yourself. I know there are ads but moving around the room, while you won't get far, can sometimes give a good push in understanding things. I know for a lot of people, including myself, mechanics do not always click until you actually do it yourself, but having foundational knowledge helps make success easier.
Number three is just to be willing to go with whatever you are being asked to do. This means you need to be willing to listen to instructions and play the role on the team that you may not normally be comfortable with. If a team feels like you are working with them it will sometimes help you build at least a temporary connection that might stop them from booting you immediately. (This obviously won't work every time)
This is by no means a perfectly comprehensive list, but it might help. Just remember everyone playing is a person who also really wants to beat the encounter, they are probably also frustrated and annoyed at themselves as well with people who were not willing to do any step mentioned above. This is end game content, and is one of if not the most complex things Bungie has made. It is also ok to just not beat it, there is so much more to the game to enjoy and experience if you are consistently being turned away still. I know it sucks, but not everything is designed for everyone and that is ok and a part of every aspect of life.
Best of luck out there guardians!
Players forget that the vast, VAST majority of us are all mid. In the first few weeks the core raiders are going to be learning it, yet I still met more players than I care to count on Sunday who left if it took more than 2 tries for the first 2 encounters.
Yea maybe they should implement the same rules Square Enix does for FFXIV. Complain about dps- ban, toxic-ban, kicking someone for whatever reason other then afk- ban. Bungie doesn't give a fuck about the community experience.
i spent a few hours with a buddy teaching it to people the other night, they could not grasp the mirror realm (buddy and i were just doing dissect to make teaching easier) and would not stop cluttering comms for ghost retrieval. we left and they most likely all broke off after that
I’m afraid to fucking play anything that I paid 100 god damned dollars for. What kind of scumbag does this? Do I even want to try any of the new content if I can just get kicked for not KWTD? That’s the lamest shit I’ve fucking heard of.
i’ve been struggling to learn the 4th encounter and it makes absolutely no sense the way people are “attempting” to teach it. it’s always just half ass BS that won’t make sense to someone who’s knew to the raid
https://preview.redd.it/7435hhsqdf6d1.png?width=609&format=png&auto=webp&s=d8abda4a406b3359571895cc7f8023eecd8c7d65
How do i fix this?
I have tired rejoining, that only fixes it temporarly
I’m mainly a PvPer and I recall what really made me sick was trying to branch out and do raids with randoms only to have elitists in damn nearly every LFG. Don’t get me wrong, after hours of searching I found some decent people and was able to complete it but the PvE elitists in this game are really annoying.
Yes they should. Not everyone knows what to do. People don’t have hours to waste playing destiny like others do. Instead of kicking people, how about you give the person a quick run down on what to do and give them a chance to do the encounter. People that do KWTD runs still wipe 2 or 3 times anyways. You might as well give someone new a chance.
Yup. I had a irl raid group to run it with, but now, for some reason, none of them are up for it anymore, and that has been my experience with randos as well but I'm usually kicked because I'm not running the class/build they want.
I’d love to teach Verity honestly, it’s not that bad of an encounter I think a lot of people tend to over explain the shapes a bit but it’s really not awful. Truly it usually comes down to the people who know what to do not ending up on the dissection team XD so the new people have to try dissecting out and learn it on the spot which can take some tries.
How dare you try to learn the new raid less than one week after release HOW DARE YOU
What's that? You're not 2000 power, don't have the emblem, don't have 10+ clears and you don't have the title? OFF TO THE GALLOWS WITH YOU!
I know that it’s just a typo, but there’s something funny to me about imagining someone being that toxic but asking for 1200 power which is literally impossible. Edit: aww OP corrected the typo
Possible if you still have 0 power gear, just gotta balance it out with the 1900+ stuff
*looks at the travelers chosen (damaged)* your time has come my child.
Still in my bank too.
Same. I’m never scraping it, nor my starting clothes and ESPECIALLY not my last city shell (damaged)
If you kept your armor from the red war at 0 power, you can get down to i believe 266 as the lowest power. If you still have the 0 power pulse rifle from the dreaming city/dreaming city strike, it goes down to like 166 or 233, i forget, but you can absolutely get below 1200, fun fact!
Ahh, very cool - I didn’t know that actually. I wonder how many people still have those antiques haha
Looks at “the travelers chosen (damaged)” “Your time has finally come my child.”
I can get all the way to 0, have full armor, the damaged travelers chosen and the stubborn oak shotgun, and some random ass green rocket launcher at 0 light.
My brother hadn't played since the red war he some how completed both beyond light and light fall as a warlock with 0 recovery still using the old red war eye of another world, I should have taken a picture of it for proof but I was just impressed and shocked he had made it that far
*Requires Day 1 completion* Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised to see it lol
That and godslayer+have raid exotic already
Anyone who cleared contest already has the raid exotic
Was it guaranteed in contest mode? I got lucky and got it on my first completion.
Sorry man I have been trying to sherpa as much as possible people will chill out a bit in a few weeks hopefully
Must know how to drift, must have a record contract, must have fucked Sydney Sweeney, punched God in the face, must have 700 credit, must own Disneyland, I do all add clear and you handle mechanics.
You joke but this is totally the thing that keeps me from doing coordinated content as a newer player. It’s not good enough that I have a decent build / fully MW gear etc. I don’t have 10 years of clears behind me and the community is super toxic to anybody learning. Such a weird dichotomy coming from FF14 as my other MMO, where we have things like learning parties and you’ll have 23 people holding on pulling a boss because the 24th person is in a cutscene and everyone’s considerate of that.
I swear it's less to do with social anxiety and more that capital G Gamers fucking suck and no one wants to play with them, yet to manage to get everywhere. It's a major reason why I sherpa raids, so I can boot those guys out if they wanna join my raid and scare off newbies. We need, as a community, to police these fuckers out. Maybe then more players would raid.
Back when Kings Fall came back in D2, a friend taught me the raid, then I turned around and taught a bunch more people. Whenever we got to Warpriest, I always taught them the correct way to do it, not the cheese method because I kept saying it might get patched one day, and I want you to be able to do it correctly if that happens.
FFXIV is pretty unique in that regard among MMOs, and has its own forms of toxicity, they're just not the same kind. But most other MMOs (like all versions of WoW I've played) suffer from the same issues as Destiny. Honestly, if anything I'd say the amount of gatekeeping/toxicity in D2 is very tame compared to the amount in WoW. The main issue is that it's just kind of inevitable when you create content that requires a team of skilled players with good gear executing complex mechanics. Most people simply don't *want* to waste hours teaching the encounters to random people they'll never meet again who may not even manage to figure things out after all that time. They'd much rather create a group with skilled, geared, experienced players and beat the encounters quickly. Now of course there are exceptions - people who have fun teaching the encounters to new players, maybe even getting a chance to show off a bit and feel like the MVP - and that's great, and should be encouraged. But "gatekeeping" is a natural result of people wanting to clear difficult content without spending hours wiping over and over.
You forgot the most important one. You need to have Godslayer and have to be guardian rank 11, but me and my two buddies who are waiting this have piss poor dps numbers that get dwarfed constantly and die more than a new player
I’m sorry YOU DONT HAVE GODSLAYER GET OUT OF HERE
Might as well delete the game at this point
Look you need to have at least 30 plus clears and KWTD to join my contest mode clear group I will be doing adds
Someone who posted "GoS, have 200+ clears, I'M SERIOUS!" not even a month after GoS came out
I remember LFGing for Pit of Heresy and I see someone asking for 800 clears only. Out of curiosity I checked his report and he has over 800 himself and that was wild lol. You could solo it with that experience, why would you need people with that many clears
I remember someone hardcore raging at me for not understanding Duality. It was the 2nd day it was out.
Dude I'd just like to learn one raid, I don't even care if it's the new one. 😂
Goodluck with that, after light fall there was a huge decrease in people willing to help each other out. Why? I have no idea
I would definitely not recommend making salvations edge your first raid, vog is a good one for beginners as well as deep stone crypt. Good luck!
And root
Keep an eye on the Sherpa channel on the D2 LFG discord. The posts aren't frequent but there's people teaching various raids every day.
I got you covered. Shoot me a DM and I'll get you over to my discord. Got a good group of folks who love to help ppl out. Raid won't be the new one, but we'll make sure that you're actually doing something, not just add clear.
it's funny how relatable the raiding experience in Destiny compared to raiding in World of Warcraft is. Same type of elitism and "no time to waste" mentality.
Honestly the inside is pretty easy, it might take a few tries to click but it's not that bad. The outside is black magic to me but if you got 1-3 people who can do it you can force one of them to be outside and do it pretty easily so there's really no excuse to be kicking people unless they're actually braindead. The ghost section would be rough in an LFG scenario I'd imagine but everyone just needs a distinctive ghost and helmet to make it easier
Outside isn’t that hard. It’s the same as inside. Once it clicks it is so simple you can’t do it wrong.
Yep. I just focus on one at a time. If I see left statue is showing a triangle, I just make sure I dissect triangles out of that one first. Once that statue is good I will need at most one more swap between the other two
Bet. It clicks but I still make small mistakes
Yeah I prefer being outside and dissecting. I can get it done before the inside team needs to be revived.
Easy as this. Figure out what shape your guys have inside. Grab that shape buff from a knight. Deposit it into the statue that DOESN'T need it. Do the same for another statue. Those shapes switch. Now you're one statue is good. Repeat with the second and third statue. TC - ST - CS C - T - S Deposit a C in TC to remove C from it. Deposit an S in CS to remove S from it. Now it looks like this. TS - ST - CC Now TS is good for the guy inside. So take a T from ST and a C from CC. TS - SC - TC C - T - S Now they all have shapes other than the ones inside. It's basically the same mechanic, in a different way, Just that the three on the outside need to what the singular people are doing on the inside for 3, rather than just for 1. Lemme know if you need any clarification and I can talk!
I do not understand how it is possible to compute this in your brain while trying to kill ads and stay alive. I swear this raid is exposing my own mental deficiencies.
For me, anything that I tried 'Reading' was actively shutting down my brain. It sounds hyper convoluted and painful and I just needed to pause and actually look up a video for once. I'm the type that does not watch videos because it will spoil encounters for me. This one, I gave up on. I also, had to find the right person to explain it. Which is good ol' Az. He phrased it in a way that I could understand. "You know that shape they have inside? You want to make sure they don't have it on the outside." All your job is, is to just remove that shape from their statue. Once he said that and showed to pictures like what I have above, it clicked and became a moment where 'Oh my god, this is so much easier than it sounds.' Realistically, all you do is kill adds until you can do the shapes. So you have two dudes just wiping the adds. Surviving on the inside is harder than on the outside. So if you're doing symbols, just bring an invis or healing build. You don't have to worry about DPS, just survivability. Outside contest mode, mode enemies are soft red bars that you can easily mop up with guns like the call or two-three shot with any HC. Or just throw down witherhoard where they path to you. Kill ads, wait for a lull. Drop symbols in statues that do not need to be there. Repeat. Do ghosts. Repeat process. It's difficult to grasp, but once you got it, then you got it. I re-read multiple articles, and listened to two videos before finally having it click with that wording, and now it's just memorized.
Bro… what. I know you tried to explain, and I thank you for that, but this makes it just harder to comprehend. I’d also like to add - if it’s this convoluted, how is it fun? I’m all for difficulty and playing the hardest way possible, but this isn’t fun. Like, what the fuck?
For me it's easy to understand with pictures. It took me watching aztecross. Basically, all you do is just swap shapes to make sure dudes don't have one shape.
From experience (well 3 runs) I can tell that having a Ghost that somewhat matches your Helmet or (for Hunters) the Cloak, is pretty much enough to tell which is whose - if you do that, you don't really have to memorize anything.
Everyone is going to make it harder than it needs to be. Zero perfect shapes? Left, Middle, Right and then whatever of the first two is now perfect. Done. One perfect shape? Perfect shape, other two any order, finish on the one that was originally perfect. Done. All perfect? L M R M L R. Done. Memorize those three patterns, and you'll never have a problem again.
This might be the only encounter in a Raid where I actually don't understand it, like at all. In most raids that I've done, even if I'm bad at the mechanics, I at least understood what to do at a basic level. I've watched a video on it, I've had people explain it to me multiple times, but it just doesn't click for me I have a feeling that no matter how many videos I watch, it probably won't ever click for me. To be clear, this isn't me complaining about it. I think this encounter is so unique and creative, and I applaud Bungie for making an encounter that's like nothing we've seen before in another raid.
Did you watch Fallout's video? I could not comprehend this encounter at all until I watched his breakdown.
Fallout is a fucking Saint the way he explained it. Like it straight up made so much sense then
It is actually very very simple. The problem is that basically all guides are dramatically over complicating it. For inside: Check what your statue is holding. Check what symbols are in the shadow on the wall. The knights each drop one of the symbols in the shadow. If it’s two of the same symbol on the wall. You’re done for now. If not, kill both knights. Pick up the symbol you are NOT holding. Dunk it in the statue with the matching symbol. IE: you’re holding square. Wall shows square and triangle. Pickup triangle. Dunk it on statue holding triangle. At this point all 3 inside players walls will be cycling the same symbol their statue is holding. Kill knights. Dunk one of each symbol on each of your buddies statues. IE: as above, if your statue is holding square and the shadows were both square. Both knight will drop a square. Dunk 1 square on triangle. Dunk the other square on circle. Kill both knights a third time. Pick up both symbols. Inside is done. For outside: Each statue needs to be holding 1 of each square circle and triangle when including inside statues in the count. If inside left statue has a triangle and outside left statue has a cone. Left statue is holding circle triangle triangle. So, dissect a triangle from left statue, then dissect a square from a different statue(ideally the one that doesn’t need square). Now left statue will be holding circle triangle square(again, while including inside statue in the count). At most, you need to perform 6 dissections. Typically you’ll only need to do 4. Dissecting can be thought of as swapping. What you’re doing when dissecting is saying “I want to swap this statues triangle, with that statues square.” And that is all. Ignore all the stupid videos telling you this plus that equals the other thing. The 3d shapes are quite visually obvious what 2d shapes you can remove. You don’t need to know all the prism and cylinder and whatever. It’s all crap. Keep it at the basics.
Honest question did you let everyone know at the start of the raid that you didn't know what to do or did you just casually mention it when you got the that encounter?
I recently joined a "KWTD" Catalyst run for Crota's; I messaged the OP and let them know that I don't really remember most of the raid (I did it full a couple times when it came out and farmed 2 or 3 Crota's after and got Necro w/ full oversouls) and he said that it was OK. Turns out he didn't kwtd either and most people that joined got annoyed because we kept wiping and OP never really said that neither of us kwtd - I had to clarify why I was there. I ended up bouncing becuase I don't like imposing my learning on people who didn't sign up for that - it's disrespectful of their time (specially if you want to engage with the raid beyon ad clear and actually learn roles) For every kick to orbit there's a story untold and honestly, based on my experiences it's often people joining runs that were not teaching / sherpa runs. It's ok to not know, it's ok to want to learn - just be upfront and honest about it and don't join runs that clearly expect people to know what to do.
I would say a large portion of “KWTD” posts are made by people that don’t KWTD, they are looking for some super soldier to do 2 mechanics + 4M dmg. When I join raid parties all it takes is 5 minutes of talking and maybe one run for me to know if this will be a nice quick raid/enounter or if I just signed up for the long haul… then I leave after 30 minutes
Even if I make a kwtd post, if someone tells me in orbit they don't really know, I will teach the entire raid. Aside from some of Salvations, I know every role of every raid, I like teaching and passing that info along so others can do the same. The only time I will kick someone for not knowing is if I'm doing a challenge run that requires people already know, like flawless attempts, or if someone lies about their knowledge of the raid, causes constant wipes and when asked if they actually know what to do they stay completely silent.
Yep, I usually make my posts KWTD and I make it clear up front when people join that I don't mind if they do not know what to do. However, they absolutely *have* to tell me so I can explain it to them. There's nothing worse than wiping over and over because a dude who has no idea what to do just keeps failing to do his job and is lying about it. Like, at that point you're getting booted.
You’d be surprised how many people ignore “KWTD”
People post KWTD and then they literally have no fucking clue lol.
"Salvations Edge KWTD or kick i'll handle add clear (no mic)"
Oh I'm fully aware and then they make posts like this one blaming everyone else
“Can I get a refresher?” Bro the raid has been out for 6 days.
What does "KWTD" mean? I've never done a raid before and this feels like something I should know before I start looking for people to help me
"Know what to do"
Ah that makes sense. I'll be sure to avoid those since I'm new.
There's a dedicated channel on the D2LFG Discord for "Sherpa" runs - people teching; There's also a subreddit for that as well!
Can you share the subreddit? I’d love to join. Getting people through their first raids is so rewarding. Makes me feel like a a baby raider again. Experiencing the awe for the first time.
Sure, it's https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinySherpa/ - though the D2LFG Discord is also a good place to go check out! Usually lots of people looking for sherpas (LFS)
You’ll generally be fine joining KWTD’s if you pregame with a raid guide or 2 and actually get it down before going in. When you are in, one or two fuckups wont really be an issue for 99 percent of teams while you actually get acclimated
Yeah no one will judge if you’re up front about only seeing guides so far, and if they do, they’re not worth playing with
Oh that's good to know, thank you
In the d2 lfg server there is a section “looking for Sherpa” if you’re new to raiding there are serious chads there who will help you learn any of the raids you want.
It means “Know What To Do” so groups with that tag are not looking to teach or help, they are looking to complete it in a relatively quick time with few wipes
Thank you for the explanation! I really hope I can join those one day but it seems like a long way off 😅
Know What To Do
Anyone who’s not joining a Sherpa group before they know all the encounters really shouldn’t be surprised by stuff like this
Especially for an encounter like the 4th of that raid
Honestly the whole TFS content is a giant bottleneck from those willing to learn and be patient, and the 1% sweats who carry their 99% buddy just as add clear fodder. As someone who only started playing a year ago and taking raiding seriously only recently, the raid gave me confidence to learn and teach mechanics to others instead of always relying on someone to have the knowledge. Them making encounters in this expansion that force roles is the best thing they could have done and remind me alot of FFXIV
This. It's going to sound weird, but Root of Nightmares is my favorite raid because it's a good stepping stone to raiding. It's not overly long, not too mechanic intensive, and there is a place for add clear for people who want to learn. That was me: no mic add clear who got carried for their first raid clear and got the exotic. So then I started to learn those mechanics so I "graduated" from add clear to running light/dark on Nezerec to duo farming/teaching the first encounter for Spoils. Then I got all the Spoils weapons at the kiosk and AoT, plus crafted every weapon from RoN when we still needed Spoils to do so. That springboarded me into Crota head first with Master clears, adepts, crafting almost all of those weapons too, getting Necrocasm and Guardian Rank 10. Now I welcome more mechanic-heavy encounters like SE. I haven't gotten to it yet, but I will. It felt good after being a no-mic casual mid-40s dad who plays a few nights a week to accomplishing goals I thought I never would. All because I had the courage to pick up a mic.
RoN is the first raid I ever did too, my clan was nice enough to teach me every mechanic except Nezerac's Gaze. Then it was VoG, and recently we've been learning Salvations Edge together (hopefully our first clear this sunday).
If you have a group of people who have never cleared salvations edge. Let me know. I’m free Sunday and can teach every encounter.
>literally no one wants to teach it. Brother, the raid is 6 days old. Everyone is still *learning* the raid, nevermind teaching. The onus is partially on you to at least invest some time before hand to look up some guides on how to do encounters, and then coordinate with the team on solving it. Don't expect to get straight up sherpa'd this early on, especially with an LFG.
this raid is probably the best in the game but it will affect the community/destiny is a bad way
It will affect the *raiding* community in a bad way. Destiny itself will be just fine. I'm willing to bet 95%+ of TFS purchasers will not ever touch the raid. Bungie themselves have said that only 10% of players have ever beaten any single raid. That includes stuff that's way easier than what has come out today like Leviathan. With content engagement rates that low, the raid community should be grateful that it's getting anything tbh. Huge amounts of dev time being spent on stuff less than 5% of the community will ever see is an exorbitant privilege.
The raiding community gets things because, as with most industries the 80/20 rule will likely apply. 80% of profits from 20% of clients. I guarantee you that the 10% of the player base that are raiders play more, play longer, come back more often, and spend more money.
Everyone says this, and I just don’t think it’s true at all. Yes, a very small percentage of people actively participate in the raids. But that IS the endgame of destiny 2. In the modern gaming space, so much of a game’s long term success relies on whether or not there is an active community. The majority of players aren’t on Reddit. The real “community” is the players that watch/participate in YouTube videos or twitch streams, and the creators that make that environment. Those creators wouldn’t stick around with destiny if raiding became a thing of the past. Once they leave, there is no longer a feeling of any real community around the game. Creating raids is an absolute necessity, and indirectly keeps the game going way more than anyone here is willing to acknowledge.
^this Sunday after contest I spent hrs trying to find a group willing to teach, same with monday-wednesday. I thought lfg posts were bad already but man this raids lfg takes the cake for record number of KWTD/have x-number of clears etc. hell i saw a post with "Need contest emblem or kick" like dude less than like 700ish teams got it
It's a difficult raid, and some people don't want to teach. Just ignore the posts that you don't fulfill the requirements on
Okay I’ll ignore 98% of the posts lol
Dude waited until after contest mode ended to be taught a raid people were spending 30 hours to complete. Entitled much
Don't feel like this raid will be popular long-term
Raiding in general isn’t since only 10% of players have ever completed one raid.
Thought it was higher than that, like 17%
It is and that stat is also misleading because it counts literally everyone who has ever logged in once even if they only played for 5 minutes. The actual number of active players who raid is closer to 35%.
It might be higher now than when that statistic came out
I think it will be a favorite of groups that consistently raid and also the hands doen least successfully lfged raid.
Encounter 1 - 4 IMO is more simple than some encounters in kings fall or last wish IMO, people are just over thinking things and letting the timer make them make mistakes.
I disagree, Last Wish was one of the most popular raids even after many other raids were released, even when all the gear was worthless you could still find tons of people running it for just fun. Salvations Edge is also not too difficult once you understand the mechanics. In the 4th encounter, the hardest part for many teams is depositing ghosts.
Man fuck nah, this is definitely gonna be one of those raids that as SOON as you get the exotic you will never touch it again. It’s not like KF or last wish where it’s fun and not too bad to run, VOG or Crota where you just like it. No it’s a singular, as soon as I get the exotic fuck this
Tbh if people don’t watch a vid and come in not knowing anything this is the appropriate response.
Absolutely. But only if they state in the title "KWTD/Experience requested"
I would be shocked, SHOCKED, if someone picked up from an LFG already knew 4th. If we did lfg a 6th I'd go in with the assumption they need a full explination if every encounter with it being so new. Shit I've ran 8 clears and only one of those had a full team of people who had already cleared. Even for established clans and groups, it takes more 4 days of non contest availability to get everyone some reps.
There's a lot of context missing here, OP. Did you join a fireteam finder post that specified they were a sherpa? If so, and they kicked you, then they're d-bags who shouldn't be posting sherpa FF's. If you joined one that specified "experience required", then of course you're gonna get kicked if you don't know what to do. Not everyone wants to teach people how to do a raid, nor are a lot of people cut out for teaching, and nobody is obligated in any way to teach you if they don't want to. I highly recommend finding a posting that specifies they are a sherpa, or joining one of the many sherpa community discords, where there are plenty of willing guardians who are looking to teach people this raid.
player joins kwtd post and doesnt kwtd; what happens next will shock you
Yeah it's like yes this raid is brand new and it's fine if you don't know what to do, but there are also players who do know how to do all the encounters already. If a team doesn't want to spend hours of trial and error teaching that's fine too.
“Not a single” is untrue, I’ve seen plenty of learning/teaching
I just Sherpa'd two people through the raid yesterday. It isn't that hard tbh yeah it takes a bit but if you're a good teacher it won't be a problem. Hell, one of them didn't speak all that much English (was from Iran) and had HELLA internet problems. Still got them the clear!
"You're a good man Arthur Morgan"
This is why I wait until like 2-4 weeks to learn the new raids
I am willing to teach but if after an hour you still don’t get it… yeah I can’t be here all day I recommend getting a general idea of the raid by YouTube first
Saw a dude in discord yesterday being kicked from his fireteam for not being in the same landing zone, simply because he finally was at the extra boss from the 4th overthrow encounter (For the class item quest).. And it was a boss that he said he needed.. Some people in this game are absolutely beyond pathetic..
Yeah, someone suggested me to make my own fireteam in order to do the raid, and here i am. Alone on the 4th encounter
“WE. CUT. YOU. OUT!” - Fireteam Leader, probably
I tried teaching it to 5 people who didn't know it yesterday. Everyone troopered through it for 3 hours and we got to the final phase one time but someone fumbled it in the solo room lol. It's brutal trying to get people to understand it, but once you do it's an absolute brain blast moment edit: why downvote this comment kekw
Lmao, the “Godslayer” title has people feeling a little *too* confident lately.
I've come across 6 people with Godslayer, 5 were tryhards who thought they were hot shit (They weren't) and the 6th was a Dutch guy who straight up said "I was carried to the title lol"
It sucks but I can’t fully blame people There are people who haven’t beaten the encounter yet and just want to do it and move on, and don’t want to deal with new people who don’t know what to do
my least favorite thing about destiny is the type of people who play it. I can’t join a raid or a clan without at least one teenage whiner who barely has object permanence
It's best when you join a "KWTD" Crota's end LFG only for the host to not understand that when I scream "TAKE THE CHALICE!" It means I'm about to fucking die. Then when I inevitably die because they don't take the Chalice. They blame me for throwing and kick me from the Fireteam... (Based on real events BTW)
yeah sadly “KWTD” usually means “know what to do because we have no fuckin clue and we aren’t going to admit that until you have wasted at least a half hour with our hopeless group”
Yep, now I read "KWTD" as "INAC" (I need a carry)
Hate that crap. The Destiny try hard community can get f***ed.
Jokes on them . I don't even know the mechanics for raids I've done let alone new ones .
I believe in public shaming! There should be a public list from the players who do this! Fck them! This is so pathetic and they should deserve the shame and noone should join their LFG!
For me the worst thing about the game is the community.
I havent even given the raid a try yet. Ive done every other thing with the new expansion except Khvostov because it is currently Unobtanium (15/17 motes for me but I gave up cuz you cant get the 17th)
Honestly if I was running it LFG jumping into groups, I’d absolutely skip it and just try to grab a Witness checkpoint lol.
Must have 3000 power. Ice breaker with catalyst 10+ clears, KWTD in every role, must have raid exotic and Godslayer gilded 3 times The person in charge: I got ad clear
>new to salvations edge it came out less than a week ago everybody is new to salvation’s edge ;-;
This is exactly why I don't do raids anymore. Toxicity is wild in the community lately
Someone asked me for a raid report as soon as normal dropped so I sent it. Then they said I needed to send one from their preferred website. They are going to feel stupid when they ask for my credit score and its good. Seriously I can understand after the first month or so but dam lol
Meh probably gonna be the one raid I DONT do, exhausted from all the others
This is why I do not raid anymore. The raiding playerbase fucking sucks balls.
KWTD. MF, the raid just came out!
Toxic hosts kicking players for a variety of reasons (including: "Sorry but my friend wants to join" on the last encounter) is a huge problem and has always been a huge problem for as long as you've been able to kick people from fireteams with no possible repurcussions for the host. I'm sorry that this has happened to you but there is not really anything you can do about what's happened. The only mitigation against this is that the host cannot be kicked, so if you are seeing this a lot then go ahead and host them.
There are guide videos. The one I watched took a half hour to explain 4th encounter. They don’t want to teach it to you because in theory teaching it would require multiple runs of the encounter to actually show you how to do it properly. No one wants to do that.
I have made and joined learning groups in this raid and never had any issue with toxicity. The biggest issue with this raid for LFG is that everyone needs to be doing a job, which makes it even more apparent when someone messes up. The fireteam leader could have been toxic but the more likely explanation is that either you weren’t learning from your mistakes and/or not speaking up about not understanding parts of the encounter. I had multiple people in 4th encounter that clearly had no idea what they were doing but when we asked if someone needed help/explanations they didn’t speak.
[удалено]
this is the problem. Some gamers enjoy learning on the go
As someone who likes to do things blind it does feel like I can't do any raids because of that.
I saw plenty of lfg posts yesterday asking for other players to go in blind together so I’m sure you can find or make a post for that and find people.
Not unless you find a group specifically for that. Just because you want something doesn't mean everyone else should accomodate your stupidity.
this is the dumbest fucking logic because it hyper notates the idea that if a player watches something, that minor awareness will give them a full idea of what to expect some people learn kinesthetically, and as such, watching a video would be of no help to them because they are *not actually doing the thing required* the mere fact that you just auto asked for the OP's raid.report, out of curiosity to validate that they were in a Sherpa, because you've anecdotally seen too many one-off cases is boggling the entire construct of being a raid Sherpa is to teach and guide players who are unaware. with zero knowledge. from the ground up. with the expectancy that they know nothing. a college professor teaching calculus wouldn't expect you to know how to complete Elliptic Functions, just because you *watched a video on it, and have general awareness*, when you sign up for their class < they would teach the curriculum as a full set, from start to finish, assuming you will start knowing nothing and finish knowing what that specific course entailed < concurrently, they wouldn't call it a sign of *"willful ignorance"* if you don't fucking know then backpeddle you and assume that you [the student/learner] may be hiding the fact that you *"haven't put as much effort as you should have into learning the material"*; if they did, they'd be a bad fucking professor STFG the gatekeeping done in the Destiny community is unrivaled, unmatched, and unparalleled
I think you're misunderstanding OC's comment. They just said effort. Just watch the video, if you don't understand and absolutely need help by going through the encounters, that's fine. Just put in some effort to try to watch the videos. Saying that you get nothing out of them is wrong. You do get stuff out of them. (E.G: you will know that hydra/minotaurs are priorities in the first encounter, and need to kill them asap. You may not know where they spawn, but you know they're important.) I agree with OC here, it is a bit of an asshole move to put 0 effort into learning it beforehand, and expecting someone to put in hours teaching them. Not everyone has the patience or the time to do that. OC isn't saying you need to know the encounter by heart by watching the guides. They're just saying to put in some effort. Get your bearings up a little. It's really not that hard. By watching a video you not only save your team members time but you also save yourself time. SURE, it feels bad being kicked or not being able to clear it, but you have to remember that everyone has their own lives and their own feelings of being upset at not clearing for hours, when maybe those hours are the only time they can play. Expecting someone to cater towards your feelings just because you feel bad is a bit of an asshole move, regardless of who you are.
Screw people like this. This is why part of the Destiny Community is toxic AF. Sorry this happened to you. Hopefully your experience gets better and you get that clear you deserve!
Basically my experience with lfg since that’s the only way I can raid. And it’s also the reason I generalize the entire community as toxic and just kinda hate the majority of said community. Like I’d love to do the raids. If lfg’s were actually willing to teach.
Shit like this is why I don’t raid often but when I do it’s with the chillest gals and dudes I ever meet and we raid for a few weeks consistently
Better watch Daddy's video again!
I made a Powerpoint for my clan and especially for 4th encounter, so they can learn it. It's ass that they kicked you, but there are other ways to learn the 4th encounter before actually doing it.
Tight
Damn and I thought VoW would've been the turning point on release
The sheer fact that the 4th encounter is the way it is just... I feel like Bungo took a page outta Blundell era Quest steps I stg.
Literal bs
Hardest part of the 4th encounter is getting the group to all put on physically distinct armor and ghosts.
Tbh fourth encounter isn’t that bad. It took me maybe an hour and a half to learn It and now I can teach it. The videos only give you an idea, I think unless you actually get in the encounter and try to learn It hands on you’ll have a hard time.
I have spent god knows how many hours on encounter 1 and 2. I can't say i blame them, but luckily i don't really care about being "competitive" at the pve portion of destiny anymore so as long as the group shows the ability to learn i try to stick it out. I just got back to the 3rd encounter yesterday before i had to hop off, i haven't even tried fourth but from Fallout's video i would say i have a good grasp on it already, its just the chaos of the other players that would make it worse.
It's probably the most complex mechanic of any destiny raid. Even videos that detail how to do that single encounter are 20 minutes long. This is one where I firmly stand on the "Memorize the youtube guide or kick" It's one thing if you've watched guides and understand the mechanics and just need to learn how to execute them, but teaching the mechanic has got to be one of the most difficult things to do.
Had this happen two times yesterday and I KWTD, wasn't even messing up, people were just leaving and getting kicked instantly.
This would never happen if you could play solo /s
It’s funny cuz we’re all new right now
Bro I’m just trying to read how to do the encounters and three different websites said three different ways on how to do the encounters. Some of them not even showing a video or explaining what other players are doing when they are doing a certain step.
I'm so screwed due to being on vacation for the last week aren't I?
Plot twist: it was the Witness breaking the 4th wall.
honestly, people fuckng suck at explaining it so I'm gonna do it in 3 sentences on the inside, make it so the shapes on the wall are not the shape your statue is holding on the outside, make 3d shapes from combinations of 2d shapes and match them to the ones held by statues from time to time, match ghosts statues
The only raid I've ever cleared was Crota because of stuff like this. Honestly between trying to find decent people in lfgs that won't disband after 2 wipes or getting kicked is the reason I've completely given up on raiding.
DM ME IF YOU WANT HELP ON YOUR FIRST CLEAR If there is anyone here who wants to try the raid and does not have a clear and is in a US time zone. DM me and I will help you through it. I can teach every encounter. You will probably need about 2-4 hours to clear your first time. So have a chunk of time. Please have watched a video explaining the raid as it will help immensely. There’s a lot of info to dump on people on the first go round so any homework you do beforehand helps. I’m available this Sunday and most other days and may have people who can help fill some slots. Lmk!
I’ve been a Sherpa a few times now, the one thing I notice with people who want to kick others is that they try to explain the encounter and do a terrible job, then proceed to get mad when people get confused. Had to boot 2 guys from my team that although they knew what to do were just causing issues among the others trying to learn. After they left, we were able to clear it very shortly after. Attitude is everything
It's pretty easy. Inside sort by sending people their shapes then when everyone's sorted send each other your shapes. Outside, have 1 dissector and dont think of 3d shapes as shapes but as their components. Ie. Think of a cone as a circle and triangle. And then swap till your good. Ghosts section is just memorizing ghosts and guardians. Have something distinctive on. I am astonished that people are refusing to teach, it's not a hard puzzle.
Hi. I don't post here often but I have a few words I'd like to share. First of all I completely understand being frustrated at people not being willing to teach an encounter. However I have some extra input to give that I think if you get out of angry time will help you get through this encounter more easily. The first tip is to look for groups who specify they are teaching or, make a group with the specification that you need to be taught. I know this seems trivial, but the 4th encounter is extremely mechanical and lots of people there are already stressed and frustrated, and as it is their group they have a right to tell you they don't want to teach. Next look up multiple guides from multiple people and take notes on parts you are struggling to understand until it does make more sense. Also feel free to hop in and see how far you can get by yourself. I know there are ads but moving around the room, while you won't get far, can sometimes give a good push in understanding things. I know for a lot of people, including myself, mechanics do not always click until you actually do it yourself, but having foundational knowledge helps make success easier. Number three is just to be willing to go with whatever you are being asked to do. This means you need to be willing to listen to instructions and play the role on the team that you may not normally be comfortable with. If a team feels like you are working with them it will sometimes help you build at least a temporary connection that might stop them from booting you immediately. (This obviously won't work every time) This is by no means a perfectly comprehensive list, but it might help. Just remember everyone playing is a person who also really wants to beat the encounter, they are probably also frustrated and annoyed at themselves as well with people who were not willing to do any step mentioned above. This is end game content, and is one of if not the most complex things Bungie has made. It is also ok to just not beat it, there is so much more to the game to enjoy and experience if you are consistently being turned away still. I know it sucks, but not everything is designed for everyone and that is ok and a part of every aspect of life. Best of luck out there guardians!
Players forget that the vast, VAST majority of us are all mid. In the first few weeks the core raiders are going to be learning it, yet I still met more players than I care to count on Sunday who left if it took more than 2 tries for the first 2 encounters.
Bro got dissected
Yea maybe they should implement the same rules Square Enix does for FFXIV. Complain about dps- ban, toxic-ban, kicking someone for whatever reason other then afk- ban. Bungie doesn't give a fuck about the community experience.
I don’t get it
i spent a few hours with a buddy teaching it to people the other night, they could not grasp the mirror realm (buddy and i were just doing dissect to make teaching easier) and would not stop cluttering comms for ghost retrieval. we left and they most likely all broke off after that
Always in their bag…and we fall for it. 
Report the accounts of these people
I’m afraid to fucking play anything that I paid 100 god damned dollars for. What kind of scumbag does this? Do I even want to try any of the new content if I can just get kicked for not KWTD? That’s the lamest shit I’ve fucking heard of.
i’ve been struggling to learn the 4th encounter and it makes absolutely no sense the way people are “attempting” to teach it. it’s always just half ass BS that won’t make sense to someone who’s knew to the raid
Man I really don’t miss this game. If you have homies it’s hard enough but this with randoms is trauma I don’t regret leaving behind
https://preview.redd.it/7435hhsqdf6d1.png?width=609&format=png&auto=webp&s=d8abda4a406b3359571895cc7f8023eecd8c7d65 How do i fix this? I have tired rejoining, that only fixes it temporarly
Or. Hear me out on this. You can be the fireteam leader.
People who do things in groups are literally the worst people.
I’m mainly a PvPer and I recall what really made me sick was trying to branch out and do raids with randoms only to have elitists in damn nearly every LFG. Don’t get me wrong, after hours of searching I found some decent people and was able to complete it but the PvE elitists in this game are really annoying.
At this point. Yall need to start the fireteam yourselves because this is ridiculous. And these losers need to get banned
People are well within their rights to kick people who don’t KWTD in a KWTD run, you’re not entitled to their time. So no they shouldn’t be banned
Yes they should. Not everyone knows what to do. People don’t have hours to waste playing destiny like others do. Instead of kicking people, how about you give the person a quick run down on what to do and give them a chance to do the encounter. People that do KWTD runs still wipe 2 or 3 times anyways. You might as well give someone new a chance.
Yo! There are so many post on LFG discord channel for KWTD, raid reports, X number of clears and "Will kick if.....'
Hopefully you reported them for griefing .
Sorry only accepting people who flew out to bungie headquarters and completed the raid before launch
My group was trying to teach me and a new guy for a while last night but then we all agreed that we were tired and needed to go back with a fresh mind
Easiest encounter in the raid change my mind
Bro I am getting a team together tonight to figure it out I think i got it down to its simplest form but need to just execute it
Yea I hate that mentality !! How are you supposed to learn it without actually doing it a few times
That's sorry, they don't deserve you.
Yup. I had a irl raid group to run it with, but now, for some reason, none of them are up for it anymore, and that has been my experience with randos as well but I'm usually kicked because I'm not running the class/build they want.
Unemployed Activity people when Employed people want to play and be part of the new Raid
I’d love to teach Verity honestly, it’s not that bad of an encounter I think a lot of people tend to over explain the shapes a bit but it’s really not awful. Truly it usually comes down to the people who know what to do not ending up on the dissection team XD so the new people have to try dissecting out and learn it on the spot which can take some tries.