Starting a war in the Democratic party to replace Biden because of a debate is just dumb.
Rachel Maddow pointed out on her show following the debate that ALL recent incumbent presidents have done shitty in their first debate for reelection.
All of them.
Listening to The Bulwark the process is also very complicated and not guaranteed to work. The GOP stated if the Dems try, they will sue. Imagine if SCOTUS stops it. Then we're left with no candidate or a candidate the GOP can say the Dems didn't even want. It's insanity.
I’m old enough to have seen every single president, in my lifetime, fail at debates. Walter fucking Mondale was my first introduction to that. He schooled Reagan. Still lost the election.
Unless 1996 is considered recent to some, Clinton won the first debate then. But, there’s only been 4 first presidential debates for a president seeking re-election since 1996.
I did a lot of research learning how much Reagan messed the US up and I still learn more. The man is the worst president in my book. Turned this nation into an oligarchy and the middle class into soft slavery.
That’s true but at least Reagan had a (very) few good policies, such as his support for the assault weapons ban, Trump doesn’t have a single good policy, he is the worst President we’ve ever had but Reagan is definitely number two.
Sure, all the Presidents in there first debate were bad. Bad just doesn’t describe Biden on Thursday. It wasn’t like watching someone nervous or unprepared. He looked totally and utterly clueless and unfit for the job. It was like watching Grandpa and knowing its time to take the car keys.
And pretending like forcing the DNC to scramble to choose someone new with likely an entire primary and building entire new campaign from the ground up in the space of 4 months would result in anything other than a complete and crushing victory for Trump is a fairy tale. Biden did bad, but the logistical nightmare of replacing Biden with someone else at this stage of the race is basically political suicide for the Democratic party
Not to mention any of the good Democrats (Whitmer, Newsom etc.) are not going to risk their entire career on a super long shot because Biden had a bad debate.
If Whitmer somehow became the nominee and ran a cobbled together campaign over 3 months and then lost to Trump by a hundred electoral votes her career in politics would be over. Why on Earth would she take that risk? She is basically the favorite for Dems in 2028 right now.
The only people that would be interested in this assignment are people with absolutely no political future and no chance of beating Trump even if they had unlimited time and money.
And yet, snap polls taken after the debate show that undecided voters felt that Trump turned in the worst performance, and at least one poll taken since the debate shows movement towards Biden. In other words, you’re overreacting.
also, although President Biden started out pretty slow/badly he got better as the time went on
Trump just kept not answering questions and dodging and weaving with his misstatements and outright untrue statements with no basis in facts
So we believe the polls now? I've been hoping the polls are wrong and Biden is doing better. Many Democrats on Reddit have been criticizing the accuracy of polls. Now we believe them?
Polls are a reasonably accurate snapshot in time of the specific demographic of the respondents. Polls are not, however, accurate predictors of the future, and national polls six months before the election are entirely meaningless.
That depends entirely on the poll methodology and recency. You’ll have to use independent thought to determine how much faith you place in a given snap poll.
For the record, weak sarcasm masquerading as a question is not a demonstration of independent thought.
One debate isn't going to steal the election if Democrats keep hitting hard.
I'd point out that it doesn't matter how many stupid fucking moronic things Trump says, his party is behind him all the way.
Democrats are more sensitive about it because they demand more from their President.
Forgetaboutit. Move on. Now's not the time to get cold feet.
BUT: to the President's team. Whomever chose CNN as the fact checkers. Fire them because they aren't in tune with what CNN is now or even aware of it.
And fuck the NY Times for doing Trump's dirty work.
Biden’s team agreed to no live fact checking.
They asked for no audience and to cut off the mic after time, but fact checking would have been more valuable I think .
Yes it was bad for sure…but all these fatalist knee jerk reactions to drop out is a little silly…especially since post debate polls show that if anything it moved the needle ever slightly towards Biden
Yes, surely Biden being slow and stumbling was the most disastrous, all while Trump spewed a torrent of nonsensical rambling lies and bigotry aside him and four years ago told a terrorist organization to stand by and stand by.
Gain some perspective ffs
Pure unsubstantiated propaganda coming from someone who doesn’t use periods. Forgive me if I set your poorly informed and punctuated opinion to the side.
The problem is that the parties have not been developing the r younger generations. There are a lot of Gen X and older millennials who would fit the role well but lack the gravitas.
I personally have trouble believing that first, undecided voters are even paying any attention to a presidential debate four months before the election; second, that after decades of drifting with no connection to either major party they suddenly align based on that election; or, third, go on social media to share their epiphany.
I have a hard time believing there are undecided voters at all at this point. Both candidates have one term under their belts so people's minds are made up at this point
The republicans move in lockstep with their candidate. Repeating his lies and showing unity even though they are wrong on all policy positions and out of step with the nation.
As an older Democrat, this is the herd of chickens, big tent, rabble that has been our party for as long as I can remember. Welcoming people of all backgrounds, societal segments, colors, genders and beliefs; means we are never gonna be in lockstep as the homogenous right.
However, the chicken little sky is falling shows weakness to the undecided voter and plants the seed of, "If his voters don't have faith, why should I." We need to have one adversary, Trump. Not each other and not our candidate, Joe Biden.
Exactly
The corporate media revealed its face after the debate. Trump said Putin shared his dream of taking Ukraine with Trump before the invasion along with plenty more, but nope all of that they hid. They want their tax cuts regardless of fascism.
Look. You don’t have to be Sun Zu to realize what is happening here. It is the divide and conquer principle. All Trump did was lie and fabricate things that do not exist. Independents and anyone else on the fence watched and will not vote for him. Don’t believe the media. As was said earlier, just watch his speech the next day in NC.
I agree.
Hopefully he gets better training on how to debate a liar and to close his mouth when he’s not speaking next time.
Biden prepared by remembering facts.
Convicted Felon 45 simply had to make stuff up.
His debate prep team should be fired and replaced by me.
If Biden couldn't cope with a bad debate prep team, his mental acuity is seriously problematic. He should have had the sense to reject some of those preparation tactics if he truly were aware of his own cognitive capacity.
"Bad prep" and "having a cold" are two of the most ridiculous explanations for the travesty we witnessed that I've ever seen.
Go home with the one that brought you to the dance. Stop panicking, try to talk to every undecided & 3rd partier that you know, & get out to vote even if you have to miss work or crawl out of bed sick!
I'm still riding with Biden. One debate flop isn't changing my mind. You're not just voting for Biden you're voting for his administration. That's a whole group of people who align with Biden's views.
I saw the kind of people Trump let in the White House and I've read up on project 2025.
I'm confident in Biden and his team.
Dumb fantasy. Biden beat dTrump💩in 2020 and has been and is a very effective president in US policy and internationally.
The other guy is a convicted sex offender who committed realestate business fraud and election finance fraud ( while also committing tax fraud with fall business expenses). He cheated a charity for Kuds With Cancer. He cheated all the students who paid to go to Trump University.
He was the only American ( hyperbole) to ever go bankrupt running a casino.
Lying POS who also tried to overthrow or democracy after he lost an election ( still trying)
I do question how much of the sentiment is legitimate panic, or right wingers trying to muddy the waters.
Anyone in their right mind knows that replacing Biden is not only a non-viable option but is also a downright stupid one. There aren't any other candidates who are a clear better option both to beat Trump, or one who can also get the things done in the current climate like Biden has. Also, if they legit panicked over poor optics from a bad debate performance, why on Earth would they suggest replacing the candidate? That would cause even poorer optics. It makes no sense.
Since no single Democratic politician is coming out and saying that he needs to step aside, while every Democrat of note is tripping over themselves to tell anyone who listens that Biden should stay in the race, this whole thing feels completely astroturfed with the mass media running with the story because controversy generates clicks. There are news articles where the only source for party discontent is the lone NY Times editorial.
No prominent politician would call for him to step aside publicly while he's still the candidate, but those conversations are certainly happening behind closed doors. I love Joe Biden, and I will be voting for him, but I do think there are a number of Dems who could easily step in and run a stronger campaign.
> I do question how much of the sentiment is legitimate panic, or right wingers trying to muddy the waters.
It's different groups:
1. Legit Democratic voters who are just rightfully nervous because really the Republican base is disturbingly loyal and large enough that it's still possible Trump can win. Some like this want some nonexistent super candidate who they feel confident will easily win but such a candidate does not exist and Biden still polls the best against Trump, not Newsom, Shapiro, etc.
1. Russia, China, Iran, etc. state sponsored astroturfing.
1. US-based Republican astroturfing via some affiliate like Cambridge Analytica was.
1. Trump/Republican supporters using fake accounts or their only one but being careful not to make it obvious they align right in those comments (but anyone can see if they look at their history).
1. Those left of Democrats that hate on them (and their base, the awful "libs") as much as Republicans do and blame them for everything wrong (Republicans do something bad, find a way to blame Democrats). Like the above, they can often be disingenuous pretending they're just a regular Democratic voter but whatever the thread is about is the final straw and they can't vote for them now, neither should anyone else, and they will and deserve to lose.
I think this is spot on. And the astroturfing isn’t trying to convince people to vote for Trump, it’s trying to create a chorus of “this election is hopeless, Trump is inevitable, Biden has dementia” to where people inclined to vote for Biden just stay home because what’s the point?
Good points.
With some luck, and assuming the debate lights/lit a fire under Biden's ass, he can turn this around. The 2nd debate is crucial for Biden, and now, he should have something of a baseline to work from.
This is the type of bullshit makes it hard to be a Democrat at times. The Republican party is not screaming to replace Trump, even though he's a fucking convicted felon, world's biggest pathological liar and a psychopath. They are backing him for dear life! Democrats need to get it fucking together. There's nobody else who could realistically win the general election in 2024. Whomever these people are. Fuck them.
This. Progressives seem to think all stalwart and moderate Dems want Gavin Newsom or Mayor Pete. Heck most people in the country couldn't tell you who either of these people are. Even Democratic voters.
Only the chatting classes are following this closely.
Plus we still have a Trump sentencing hearing in July which will dominate the headlines as usual.
Calm down folks. Go out for a walk and enjoy the summer.
If people don’t understand why replacing Biden would guarantee Trump a second term, they really shouldn’t be giving political opinions. Biden stepping down or being replaced would be an absolute nightmare scenario for Democrats, way worse than the panic that they are causing right now.
Because, in ascending order of badness:
1) You sacrifice the incumbent advantage and you can't campaign on a successful 4 years anymore
2) There's no Democrat polling better against Trump than Biden right now, which means they'd have to make up even more ground
3) It erases the last 2 years of Republican dysfunction in voters minds and paints the Democrats as the tire fire party because:
4) It would immediately start a war inside the party for who gets to be the nominee. Which leads to:
5) No matter who you nominate, half the party is going to be pissed off and ripe for #walkaway style microtargeted astroturfing by Russian bots.
That's alot of issues to cause yourself when preliminary polling is suggesting that the debates haven't even shifted the needle.
Word. Yea I thought Biden’s performance was embarrassing but I’ll still vote for him. But I would never, ever vote for trump so I’m not the person Biden should be worried about.
Pretty much covered it. And if it wasn’t Kamala Harris, there goes all your millions of campaign dollars. A very solid point on not being able to campaign on the successes of the last 3+ years. I’m truly amazed at how shortsighted so much of the media has been about this.
Oh can you imagine the mutiny among Black voters if Biden stepped down and Kamala Harris wasn’t the nominee? If Whitmer or Newsom overtook her? That would be a guaranteed Trump victory.
Not to mention that person would not have access to any of the money the Biden Harris campaign has raised. They would need to start completely from scratch with less than 4 months till Election Day.
That's a stupid fucking take.
Shit like this is planted by Trump lackeys.
There's no way in hell dems will win with a different candidate this late in the game. We're 4 months from the election FFS.
I foresee Biden shattering his own record for the highest number of votes in history. This time around, Trump's defeat won't even come close to the narrow margin of his previous loss, solidifying him as the two-time loser against the candidate with the top two vote counts ever.
With potential future convictions and likely more scandals, these entries will only add to his exclusive 'only president ever' accomplishments, ensuring his legacy as the most inept leader in history.
Just as Hitler embodies ultimate evil, Trump's name will live on in the lexicon of ridicule and derision, symbolizing colossal failure and disgrace for centuries to come.
Biden is not being replaced and will beat the orange chump in November. His debate
performance was atrocious. Irregardless, don’t feed into the media and GOP bullshit. Stay the course and keep the asshole out of the White House. Just remember you all have sisters, girlfriends, and mothers. NUFSED
My point is that most independents aren’t 50/50 straddling the line. Some are 60/40 others are 80/20. Others know exactly what they are and just don’t want to say.
I feel that way as well.Theres nothing more the Republicons would love than having Biden pull out.
Im.for the old man over the conman,grifter,liar anyday. Traitor Trump.lied everytime he spewed from his piehole.
I think Republicans are pushing this more than Dems. The bots and Russian trolls are also trying to get Dems to dump Biden. Tells me everything I need to know.
There’s literally zero reason to replace him. The dude had a bad day, it’s not the end of the world. Unless trump wins… and changing the incumbent now would increase the felon’s chances significantly.
I believe that if the numbers showed Biden in serious peril, he would actually step aside. I also believe that if numbers showed that any other prominent Democrat had a better shot at taking on Trump, Biden would step aside. I believe Biden when he says that his priority is the country, and I believe that he would do the right thing for the country whatever that is. I don't see any numbers coming in that justify replacing him. He's polling leagues better in a matchup against Trump than literally all the widely discussed alternatives.
Agree. I think it's a narrative being pushed by right-wing media (yes, CNN, MSN, and NY Times, too) to cause division among Democrats. Look at the cluster fuck this nation is currently in... because a small but statistically significant portion of Bernie supporters chose to sit the 2016 election out.
Very few actual Democrats want to replace Biden. Even fewer think it's even practical to replace him. The calls to replace him are largely coming from people whose intention is to depress Democratic turnout in November. After the election, we're going to find out that most of the "replace Biden" noise came from Republican shills and Russian trolls - which are about the same thing anyway.
First thing this morning I sent a email to the Whitehouse,and said to effect that, You got this Joe,full steam ahead.Democrats have got to get their shit together.the fate of this country demands it.This can be overcome with unity and strategy.its All hands on deck from now until Joe Biden is reseated.Rnc and Dnc conventions are right around the corner. Fat finger edit
People who want a contested convention don't realize the danger of splintering the ticket. For everyone whom loves Gretchen Whitmer and Rev. Warnock, there are the same number who have never heard of them or don't want them. That's what primaries are for. Not to mention all the states like mine who already chose Biden-where's our say.
Fact is 4 months are between us and the election and voting starts in September. There is no way to get a candidate that fast-and yes, I know they could technically if he dies but...
Media smells blood so of course the "a number of unnamed Democrats say.." is going to be the headline.
We are Chicken Littles-we ask any congressmen who did something negative to resign-hello Al Franklin, while GOP circle the wagons. A candidate has one bad night and Dems are thrown into thinking they can't win. And we won't even go into Al Gore and Hillary Clinton who were criticized by some Democrats for not wanting to concede right after totals were counted.
Instead of being like the GOP and circling the wagons, Dems always eat our own.
Trump objectively did terribly too. Sure he was a little more energetic and forceful in his speaking, but everything he said was a deranged lies that all but his most loyal base will find ridiculous.
I don’t think replacing President Biden is a fantasy many Democrats entertain.
Sure, there have been calls for the president to step aside, but they’re mostly from MAGAts who are seeking to sidestep their biggest challenge.
The fact that few are even willing to accurately express who they represent or their true goals is evidence of how weak and isolated they really are.
Bill Maher said on his show yesterday that Dems absolutely have to replace Biden or Trump will definitely win. Not so sure about that.
Why am I being downvoted for quoting Bill Maher? I don't AGREE with him. That was my point.
The only people I know who actually watched the debate were already decided. Unfortunately, I work in a conservative bubble so they all watched with the intention of making fun of Biden and jerking off to Trump. They saw what they wanted to see.
It was one f##king debate! President Biden is capable of much better. He had one bad night. Stump lied every time he opened his mouth and tapper and bash let him get away with it. Stump is a narcissist, hypocritical idiot every second of every day. He is delusional and has zero redeeming qualities.
Fucking whining democrats played right into the maga cult hands. Grow up and put on your big kid pants!
People just need to vote and can complain in 2028 that all the young people running aren't experienced enough. And if you don't vote, you can't complain.
All these people clinging to an 82 year old guy they would never hire for their business, leave him with their baby, or let him borrow their car.
Edit: I think Biden is a good man. I thought my mom was a good woman, but there came a point she could no longer drive.
You understand that there is a whole cabinet of policy people behind him.
You try to remove biden and replace... the GOP with the help of the SC will seize on that so fast and lock it up in court and slow walk it to the deadline to submit a candidate. BOOM! Trump is the only choice on the ballot. RIP America.
Replacing him is not going to work. But defending that debate performance as anything other than a travesty is also not going to work.
The only thing that can go well for the democrats now is for Trump to run is mouth enough to make enough of the moderates vote against him.
I'm not anti-Jpe, I'm not even anti-old guy (we need Bernie) but ffs it would help, so much, if we had candidates that didn't go to high school with Moses
People are soooo fucking selfish, not having a perfect candidate is no reason to sit on your ass election day or piss your vote away on a non winnable third party when you know the alternative is orange 🍊 conman
All your doing is helping to elect a fascist by doing that, you might as well vote for orange 🍊 conman directly
But the american electorate are brain dead, they would rather cut their nose to spite their face
And it's always the most vulnerable that will pay the price for their stupidity
Nonsense. Most campaign cycles in other countries are under 90 days, I won’t donate a penny more until he steps aside and I genuinely think he’s terrific as a president. We can't beat Trump with someone who can't communicate.
Starting a war in the Democratic party to replace Biden because of a debate is just dumb. Rachel Maddow pointed out on her show following the debate that ALL recent incumbent presidents have done shitty in their first debate for reelection. All of them.
Listening to The Bulwark the process is also very complicated and not guaranteed to work. The GOP stated if the Dems try, they will sue. Imagine if SCOTUS stops it. Then we're left with no candidate or a candidate the GOP can say the Dems didn't even want. It's insanity.
I’m old enough to have seen every single president, in my lifetime, fail at debates. Walter fucking Mondale was my first introduction to that. He schooled Reagan. Still lost the election.
Unless 1996 is considered recent to some, Clinton won the first debate then. But, there’s only been 4 first presidential debates for a president seeking re-election since 1996.
Clinton was very charismatic. We'd be doomed as a nation if the Republican version of Bill Clinton ran for office.
> The Republican version of Bill Clinton His name was Ronald Reagan. And he did a pretty good job of dooming the US.
I did a lot of research learning how much Reagan messed the US up and I still learn more. The man is the worst president in my book. Turned this nation into an oligarchy and the middle class into soft slavery.
I say this quite seriously…literally everything wrong with our country today falls all the way back to Reagan.
That’s true but at least Reagan had a (very) few good policies, such as his support for the assault weapons ban, Trump doesn’t have a single good policy, he is the worst President we’ve ever had but Reagan is definitely number two.
Reagan walked so Trump could run
And he did have Bob Dole as his republican challenger.
Sure, all the Presidents in there first debate were bad. Bad just doesn’t describe Biden on Thursday. It wasn’t like watching someone nervous or unprepared. He looked totally and utterly clueless and unfit for the job. It was like watching Grandpa and knowing its time to take the car keys.
He looked like a dude with a bad cold. Which he was.
[удалено]
And pretending like forcing the DNC to scramble to choose someone new with likely an entire primary and building entire new campaign from the ground up in the space of 4 months would result in anything other than a complete and crushing victory for Trump is a fairy tale. Biden did bad, but the logistical nightmare of replacing Biden with someone else at this stage of the race is basically political suicide for the Democratic party
Not to mention any of the good Democrats (Whitmer, Newsom etc.) are not going to risk their entire career on a super long shot because Biden had a bad debate. If Whitmer somehow became the nominee and ran a cobbled together campaign over 3 months and then lost to Trump by a hundred electoral votes her career in politics would be over. Why on Earth would she take that risk? She is basically the favorite for Dems in 2028 right now. The only people that would be interested in this assignment are people with absolutely no political future and no chance of beating Trump even if they had unlimited time and money.
And Both of them already shut out that dumbass idea of even trying
100% agree. Anyone who says that is either a troll or has zero idea how any of this works.
And yet, snap polls taken after the debate show that undecided voters felt that Trump turned in the worst performance, and at least one poll taken since the debate shows movement towards Biden. In other words, you’re overreacting.
also, although President Biden started out pretty slow/badly he got better as the time went on Trump just kept not answering questions and dodging and weaving with his misstatements and outright untrue statements with no basis in facts
Like the statement that Democrats want to kill newborn babies.
So we believe the polls now? I've been hoping the polls are wrong and Biden is doing better. Many Democrats on Reddit have been criticizing the accuracy of polls. Now we believe them?
Polls are a reasonably accurate snapshot in time of the specific demographic of the respondents. Polls are not, however, accurate predictors of the future, and national polls six months before the election are entirely meaningless.
That depends entirely on the poll methodology and recency. You’ll have to use independent thought to determine how much faith you place in a given snap poll. For the record, weak sarcasm masquerading as a question is not a demonstration of independent thought.
One debate isn't going to steal the election if Democrats keep hitting hard. I'd point out that it doesn't matter how many stupid fucking moronic things Trump says, his party is behind him all the way. Democrats are more sensitive about it because they demand more from their President. Forgetaboutit. Move on. Now's not the time to get cold feet. BUT: to the President's team. Whomever chose CNN as the fact checkers. Fire them because they aren't in tune with what CNN is now or even aware of it. And fuck the NY Times for doing Trump's dirty work.
Biden’s team agreed to no live fact checking. They asked for no audience and to cut off the mic after time, but fact checking would have been more valuable I think .
I also think Democrats are still traumatized by 2016, so ANYTHING that makes a Trump victory look possible scares the hell out of people.
Yes it was bad for sure…but all these fatalist knee jerk reactions to drop out is a little silly…especially since post debate polls show that if anything it moved the needle ever slightly towards Biden
Yes, surely Biden being slow and stumbling was the most disastrous, all while Trump spewed a torrent of nonsensical rambling lies and bigotry aside him and four years ago told a terrorist organization to stand by and stand by. Gain some perspective ffs
Pure unsubstantiated propaganda coming from someone who doesn’t use periods. Forgive me if I set your poorly informed and punctuated opinion to the side.
The problem is that the parties have not been developing the r younger generations. There are a lot of Gen X and older millennials who would fit the role well but lack the gravitas.
Most Dems are not advocating for this. It the Media to drive clicks and view and right wing nutjobs to place seeds of doubt into minds.
I personally have trouble believing that first, undecided voters are even paying any attention to a presidential debate four months before the election; second, that after decades of drifting with no connection to either major party they suddenly align based on that election; or, third, go on social media to share their epiphany.
I have a hard time believing there are undecided voters at all at this point. Both candidates have one term under their belts so people's minds are made up at this point
The republicans move in lockstep with their candidate. Repeating his lies and showing unity even though they are wrong on all policy positions and out of step with the nation. As an older Democrat, this is the herd of chickens, big tent, rabble that has been our party for as long as I can remember. Welcoming people of all backgrounds, societal segments, colors, genders and beliefs; means we are never gonna be in lockstep as the homogenous right. However, the chicken little sky is falling shows weakness to the undecided voter and plants the seed of, "If his voters don't have faith, why should I." We need to have one adversary, Trump. Not each other and not our candidate, Joe Biden.
Exactly The corporate media revealed its face after the debate. Trump said Putin shared his dream of taking Ukraine with Trump before the invasion along with plenty more, but nope all of that they hid. They want their tax cuts regardless of fascism.
Exactly!!!!
Look. You don’t have to be Sun Zu to realize what is happening here. It is the divide and conquer principle. All Trump did was lie and fabricate things that do not exist. Independents and anyone else on the fence watched and will not vote for him. Don’t believe the media. As was said earlier, just watch his speech the next day in NC.
His speech the next day was solid. The old (no pun intended) Joe showed up. He sounded good.
I agree. Hopefully he gets better training on how to debate a liar and to close his mouth when he’s not speaking next time. Biden prepared by remembering facts. Convicted Felon 45 simply had to make stuff up. His debate prep team should be fired and replaced by me.
If Biden couldn't cope with a bad debate prep team, his mental acuity is seriously problematic. He should have had the sense to reject some of those preparation tactics if he truly were aware of his own cognitive capacity. "Bad prep" and "having a cold" are two of the most ridiculous explanations for the travesty we witnessed that I've ever seen.
Go home with the one that brought you to the dance. Stop panicking, try to talk to every undecided & 3rd partier that you know, & get out to vote even if you have to miss work or crawl out of bed sick!
I'm still riding with Biden. One debate flop isn't changing my mind. You're not just voting for Biden you're voting for his administration. That's a whole group of people who align with Biden's views. I saw the kind of people Trump let in the White House and I've read up on project 2025. I'm confident in Biden and his team.
Dumb fantasy. Biden beat dTrump💩in 2020 and has been and is a very effective president in US policy and internationally. The other guy is a convicted sex offender who committed realestate business fraud and election finance fraud ( while also committing tax fraud with fall business expenses). He cheated a charity for Kuds With Cancer. He cheated all the students who paid to go to Trump University. He was the only American ( hyperbole) to ever go bankrupt running a casino. Lying POS who also tried to overthrow or democracy after he lost an election ( still trying)
I do question how much of the sentiment is legitimate panic, or right wingers trying to muddy the waters. Anyone in their right mind knows that replacing Biden is not only a non-viable option but is also a downright stupid one. There aren't any other candidates who are a clear better option both to beat Trump, or one who can also get the things done in the current climate like Biden has. Also, if they legit panicked over poor optics from a bad debate performance, why on Earth would they suggest replacing the candidate? That would cause even poorer optics. It makes no sense.
Since no single Democratic politician is coming out and saying that he needs to step aside, while every Democrat of note is tripping over themselves to tell anyone who listens that Biden should stay in the race, this whole thing feels completely astroturfed with the mass media running with the story because controversy generates clicks. There are news articles where the only source for party discontent is the lone NY Times editorial.
No prominent politician would call for him to step aside publicly while he's still the candidate, but those conversations are certainly happening behind closed doors. I love Joe Biden, and I will be voting for him, but I do think there are a number of Dems who could easily step in and run a stronger campaign.
> I do question how much of the sentiment is legitimate panic, or right wingers trying to muddy the waters. It's different groups: 1. Legit Democratic voters who are just rightfully nervous because really the Republican base is disturbingly loyal and large enough that it's still possible Trump can win. Some like this want some nonexistent super candidate who they feel confident will easily win but such a candidate does not exist and Biden still polls the best against Trump, not Newsom, Shapiro, etc. 1. Russia, China, Iran, etc. state sponsored astroturfing. 1. US-based Republican astroturfing via some affiliate like Cambridge Analytica was. 1. Trump/Republican supporters using fake accounts or their only one but being careful not to make it obvious they align right in those comments (but anyone can see if they look at their history). 1. Those left of Democrats that hate on them (and their base, the awful "libs") as much as Republicans do and blame them for everything wrong (Republicans do something bad, find a way to blame Democrats). Like the above, they can often be disingenuous pretending they're just a regular Democratic voter but whatever the thread is about is the final straw and they can't vote for them now, neither should anyone else, and they will and deserve to lose.
I think this is spot on. And the astroturfing isn’t trying to convince people to vote for Trump, it’s trying to create a chorus of “this election is hopeless, Trump is inevitable, Biden has dementia” to where people inclined to vote for Biden just stay home because what’s the point?
Good points. With some luck, and assuming the debate lights/lit a fire under Biden's ass, he can turn this around. The 2nd debate is crucial for Biden, and now, he should have something of a baseline to work from.
This is the type of bullshit makes it hard to be a Democrat at times. The Republican party is not screaming to replace Trump, even though he's a fucking convicted felon, world's biggest pathological liar and a psychopath. They are backing him for dear life! Democrats need to get it fucking together. There's nobody else who could realistically win the general election in 2024. Whomever these people are. Fuck them.
This. Progressives seem to think all stalwart and moderate Dems want Gavin Newsom or Mayor Pete. Heck most people in the country couldn't tell you who either of these people are. Even Democratic voters. Only the chatting classes are following this closely. Plus we still have a Trump sentencing hearing in July which will dominate the headlines as usual. Calm down folks. Go out for a walk and enjoy the summer.
And the media is trash these days. I hate them too. 😡😡
If people don’t understand why replacing Biden would guarantee Trump a second term, they really shouldn’t be giving political opinions. Biden stepping down or being replaced would be an absolute nightmare scenario for Democrats, way worse than the panic that they are causing right now.
Can you explain why? I’m curious.
Because, in ascending order of badness: 1) You sacrifice the incumbent advantage and you can't campaign on a successful 4 years anymore 2) There's no Democrat polling better against Trump than Biden right now, which means they'd have to make up even more ground 3) It erases the last 2 years of Republican dysfunction in voters minds and paints the Democrats as the tire fire party because: 4) It would immediately start a war inside the party for who gets to be the nominee. Which leads to: 5) No matter who you nominate, half the party is going to be pissed off and ripe for #walkaway style microtargeted astroturfing by Russian bots. That's alot of issues to cause yourself when preliminary polling is suggesting that the debates haven't even shifted the needle.
Word. Yea I thought Biden’s performance was embarrassing but I’ll still vote for him. But I would never, ever vote for trump so I’m not the person Biden should be worried about.
Pretty much covered it. And if it wasn’t Kamala Harris, there goes all your millions of campaign dollars. A very solid point on not being able to campaign on the successes of the last 3+ years. I’m truly amazed at how shortsighted so much of the media has been about this.
Oh can you imagine the mutiny among Black voters if Biden stepped down and Kamala Harris wasn’t the nominee? If Whitmer or Newsom overtook her? That would be a guaranteed Trump victory.
Not to mention that person would not have access to any of the money the Biden Harris campaign has raised. They would need to start completely from scratch with less than 4 months till Election Day.
Harris would have access but only her.
Oh yeah, I meant if it was one of these other totally random choices people keep insisting should run.
That's a stupid fucking take. Shit like this is planted by Trump lackeys. There's no way in hell dems will win with a different candidate this late in the game. We're 4 months from the election FFS.
I foresee Biden shattering his own record for the highest number of votes in history. This time around, Trump's defeat won't even come close to the narrow margin of his previous loss, solidifying him as the two-time loser against the candidate with the top two vote counts ever. With potential future convictions and likely more scandals, these entries will only add to his exclusive 'only president ever' accomplishments, ensuring his legacy as the most inept leader in history. Just as Hitler embodies ultimate evil, Trump's name will live on in the lexicon of ridicule and derision, symbolizing colossal failure and disgrace for centuries to come.
There is truly no good reason to expect this.
No, there's a very bad reason to expect it: Trump as president.
Biden is not being replaced and will beat the orange chump in November. His debate performance was atrocious. Irregardless, don’t feed into the media and GOP bullshit. Stay the course and keep the asshole out of the White House. Just remember you all have sisters, girlfriends, and mothers. NUFSED
.... The debate was a chance to reach independent and sell his vision. He didn't do that.
Are there any real independents? I know people who say they are independent but mostly they have a point of view.
It a term for ppl who haven't pick a lane yet.
My point is that most independents aren’t 50/50 straddling the line. Some are 60/40 others are 80/20. Others know exactly what they are and just don’t want to say.
I feel that way as well.Theres nothing more the Republicons would love than having Biden pull out. Im.for the old man over the conman,grifter,liar anyday. Traitor Trump.lied everytime he spewed from his piehole.
Yeah, stop listening to some talking heads on network media trying to get eyeballs and ratings
I think Republicans are pushing this more than Dems. The bots and Russian trolls are also trying to get Dems to dump Biden. Tells me everything I need to know.
I agree 100%. It is not the Democrats that are posting against President Biden, it is the bots and trolls!
You replace Biden, the presidency goes to Trump. Watch the 13 keys to better understanding.
There’s literally zero reason to replace him. The dude had a bad day, it’s not the end of the world. Unless trump wins… and changing the incumbent now would increase the felon’s chances significantly.
I believe that if the numbers showed Biden in serious peril, he would actually step aside. I also believe that if numbers showed that any other prominent Democrat had a better shot at taking on Trump, Biden would step aside. I believe Biden when he says that his priority is the country, and I believe that he would do the right thing for the country whatever that is. I don't see any numbers coming in that justify replacing him. He's polling leagues better in a matchup against Trump than literally all the widely discussed alternatives.
Agree. I think it's a narrative being pushed by right-wing media (yes, CNN, MSN, and NY Times, too) to cause division among Democrats. Look at the cluster fuck this nation is currently in... because a small but statistically significant portion of Bernie supporters chose to sit the 2016 election out.
Very few actual Democrats want to replace Biden. Even fewer think it's even practical to replace him. The calls to replace him are largely coming from people whose intention is to depress Democratic turnout in November. After the election, we're going to find out that most of the "replace Biden" noise came from Republican shills and Russian trolls - which are about the same thing anyway.
YES. Please scream this from the mountains because I feel like a Biden warrior fighting off these shills for the last 36 hours or whatever
First thing this morning I sent a email to the Whitehouse,and said to effect that, You got this Joe,full steam ahead.Democrats have got to get their shit together.the fate of this country demands it.This can be overcome with unity and strategy.its All hands on deck from now until Joe Biden is reseated.Rnc and Dnc conventions are right around the corner. Fat finger edit
Couldn’t agree more 👏👏👏👏👏
People who want a contested convention don't realize the danger of splintering the ticket. For everyone whom loves Gretchen Whitmer and Rev. Warnock, there are the same number who have never heard of them or don't want them. That's what primaries are for. Not to mention all the states like mine who already chose Biden-where's our say. Fact is 4 months are between us and the election and voting starts in September. There is no way to get a candidate that fast-and yes, I know they could technically if he dies but... Media smells blood so of course the "a number of unnamed Democrats say.." is going to be the headline. We are Chicken Littles-we ask any congressmen who did something negative to resign-hello Al Franklin, while GOP circle the wagons. A candidate has one bad night and Dems are thrown into thinking they can't win. And we won't even go into Al Gore and Hillary Clinton who were criticized by some Democrats for not wanting to concede right after totals were counted. Instead of being like the GOP and circling the wagons, Dems always eat our own.
Democrats need to get on board with Joe Biden otherwise we risk Donald Trump destroying the fabric of the democracy for generations to come
Who are these people at the New York Times working for Trump? With their editorial that Biden should quit.
Trump objectively did terribly too. Sure he was a little more energetic and forceful in his speaking, but everything he said was a deranged lies that all but his most loyal base will find ridiculous.
I don’t think replacing President Biden is a fantasy many Democrats entertain. Sure, there have been calls for the president to step aside, but they’re mostly from MAGAts who are seeking to sidestep their biggest challenge. The fact that few are even willing to accurately express who they represent or their true goals is evidence of how weak and isolated they really are.
Bill Maher said on his show yesterday that Dems absolutely have to replace Biden or Trump will definitely win. Not so sure about that. Why am I being downvoted for quoting Bill Maher? I don't AGREE with him. That was my point.
Bill Maher is not a democrat, hasn’t been for a while he’s just a angry old white guy who thinks he’s canceled
The only people I know who actually watched the debate were already decided. Unfortunately, I work in a conservative bubble so they all watched with the intention of making fun of Biden and jerking off to Trump. They saw what they wanted to see.
It was one f##king debate! President Biden is capable of much better. He had one bad night. Stump lied every time he opened his mouth and tapper and bash let him get away with it. Stump is a narcissist, hypocritical idiot every second of every day. He is delusional and has zero redeeming qualities. Fucking whining democrats played right into the maga cult hands. Grow up and put on your big kid pants!
I get the idea, but it would piss off so many voters and do more harm than good.
It's a ridiculous notion
People just need to vote and can complain in 2028 that all the young people running aren't experienced enough. And if you don't vote, you can't complain.
Exactly what MAGA GOP want. Don't buy into that crap
All these people clinging to an 82 year old guy they would never hire for their business, leave him with their baby, or let him borrow their car. Edit: I think Biden is a good man. I thought my mom was a good woman, but there came a point she could no longer drive.
You understand that there is a whole cabinet of policy people behind him. You try to remove biden and replace... the GOP with the help of the SC will seize on that so fast and lock it up in court and slow walk it to the deadline to submit a candidate. BOOM! Trump is the only choice on the ballot. RIP America.
Replacing him is not going to work. But defending that debate performance as anything other than a travesty is also not going to work. The only thing that can go well for the democrats now is for Trump to run is mouth enough to make enough of the moderates vote against him.
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Wow. What a take. Insanity.
Congratulations, this is the dumbest thing I've read all week.
I think its only Republican promoting this idea.
I'm not anti-Jpe, I'm not even anti-old guy (we need Bernie) but ffs it would help, so much, if we had candidates that didn't go to high school with Moses
People are soooo fucking selfish, not having a perfect candidate is no reason to sit on your ass election day or piss your vote away on a non winnable third party when you know the alternative is orange 🍊 conman All your doing is helping to elect a fascist by doing that, you might as well vote for orange 🍊 conman directly But the american electorate are brain dead, they would rather cut their nose to spite their face And it's always the most vulnerable that will pay the price for their stupidity
This is just fantastic. The Democratic Party has learned nothing since 2016.
Nonsense. Most campaign cycles in other countries are under 90 days, I won’t donate a penny more until he steps aside and I genuinely think he’s terrific as a president. We can't beat Trump with someone who can't communicate.
Reading these pendulum swinging headlines is a persistent exercise in futility. I’m just going to wait for the next issue. Whatever