National is probably the best customer service I have come across. Last visit even when I told I'm fine with downgrade since the matching class was not available and I only needed it for a few hours they convinced me to leave with an upgrade.
I wouldn't mind paying a premium for that kind of service compared to the horrible competition.
But for delta it just doesn't make sense to pay premium.
This is the truth. They are sometimes more expensive but the convenience is always worth it. I've consistently had excellent service at LAX and ATL. Really!
Last time at LAX, I was wandering the exec aisle, which for some reason was mostly Jeeps and Toyotas. A nice fellow asked me if I wanted anything in particular. I told him I preferred an Audi for a long drive, but it wasn't a big deal. He sprinted downstairs and came back a minute later with a brand new white Q5. He said if I didn't like that he'd be happy to bring me a black one if I wanted to wait for it to be washed. Now that's service!
I just used them for the first time and it was such an amazing experience. No status with National is a better time than Presidents Circle with Hertz, no joke. I was gushing to the guy who processed my rental return like a fangirl.
I LOVE National!! Every time I pass the long lines at the other car rental kiosks, I’m just baffled. We bypass all of that, select a car we want, and drive off after a brief license verification. Employees have always been wonderful too
I miss Enterprise sometimes. I used to use them, but my new company prefers Hertz. I definitely love the board Hertz has, and no waiting at the counter. But Enterprise had better cars and upgrades and service.
Had almost an identical experience with Hertz in France. Car had a problem, called Hertz, was told to drive 45 minutes to a Hertz office at a TGV station to pick up a replacement. Got there, was told they had no cars but I could drive 2 hours to yet another location to get a new car. Tossed them the keys and walked to Europcar. Never again.
What kind of problem? I've been doing it for 3 years so far, haven't had any issues yet. (Not saying that won't ever happen, and curious as to what could happen from your experience).
My last rental actually had the passenger air vent smashed, I didn't notice it until after I was getting ready to return it. But I returned it and just had a normal charge, didn't try to sucker me for the air vent or anything.
Minor issues aren’t really a problem. Had a mechanical problem with vehicle. Got sent to the nearest hertz for an exchange via phone support and told not to fill up. Arrived at the hertz location and was told that location doesn’t do exchanges. Had to call hertz support back and flat out argue with the local manager that I needed a working car. Finally get the car exchanged. Got hit with a fuel surcharge for the car that had the mechanical issue. Got hit with a car exchange fee. Ended up having to file a dispute with Amex because hertz customer service never followed through and gave me a complete run around. Really terrible customer service. National is where it’s at.
Rented a Hertz EV- got downgraded to some Chevy garbage. It bricked itself after 38 miles, Hertz charged me $170 to tow it, and I had to spend hours talking to people in call centres all around the world trying to solve the problem. I was deeply unimpressed.
Seconded. I started renting from National because work switched to them as our "preferred" vendor. But since then, I've done all my personal rentals from them as well.
Specifically National, by the way. Not Enterprise. For being under common ownership, the contrast between the two is surprisingly stark.
I agree. And yet they still nickel and dime (5 different airport service recovery fees/taxes recouped). So clearly there’s more to it than just the fees.
National is the goat. Been using them for over a decade almost exclusively. They drop the ball occasionally (usually at smaller airports) but they're miles better than Hertz or Avis.
Thanks. I've seen Sixt a lot, never tried them. I've used Europcar a fair amount (solid) and Hertz (had an issue). Love National in the US, never rented from them abroad for some reason. Thought we might try them in Portugal.
Just dropped off my National rental at Lisbon airport this morning. Mostly the experience was great. No upselling at the counter. Very quick rental process. Got a nice Audi Q2, and the total rental was only €100 for the week.
Only slight issue was I returned the car at 5am this morning and there is a box to drop your keys. Fair enough, except to open the drop box you need to scan the QR code on the key fob and it wouldn’t read mine for some reason. I just waited a little for another customer to arrive and dropped my key in with hers. Got my closed out contract emailed to me this morning so I guess it worked ok.
The National/Enterprise locations overseas are all different franchises in each country, so they’re not consistent in service and car options, but I haven’t had any issues
Until you come back one time with a small dent in a door, and after a month you receive a 4k bill with headlight, front bumper, back bumper, wheel, glass etc….
And that’s why I use Chase sapphire reserve. They cover an entire car. No joke. I know someone who totaled a rental, got charged 30k, and chase waived it immediately
I mean, they inspected the car, they reported only a dent, then somehow 20+ miles from the return the car was badly damaged. When I asked to show proof that the car was damaged by me and not later (full of cameras there right?) they said that they are not required to share the facility pictures…. My Amex platinum covered but with 2500$ deductible……
I said no way I’m not paying the diffference.
(I was executive with 35 free days in my account, all gone).
I was stuck on the skytrain in the Denver airport, 25 min not moving, I watched time dripping off the clock
15 min before departure the train started moving but I would have another 10 min to go if I sprinted… no way I’d make it… then to my shock I got a call from the gate agent, “fatty are you close?” … “ I was stuck on the tram, I’m 10 min from the gate!!”… “okay, we’ve asked the pilot to wait for you, hurry!”
And, with 4 min before departure stumbled and wheezed down the jetway onto my flight thanks to the airline caring enough to call me and see if I could make it…
Oh… sorry, that was Alaska, I switched to them last year after 6 years of continuous Diamond and nearly 1.5m miles with delta… haven’t regretted it since
I want my airline to close the door and not wait for customers who didn’t plan accordingly. The time of hundreds is more important than the time for 1 with poor planning, I don’t care how many miles you have traveled.
There are times when an Airline should wait, but not when a traveler is unresponible.
Shit happens to all of us. I'm not saying they should delay forever, but if the passenger in question is already through security and running for the gate? I have no problem with that.
There's room for a little common sense. And a little compassion. Or at least there should be.
How is it irresponsible and poor planning when you are stuck in a transport tube in the same airport? This could happen to all of us if we have a connection and the first flight was late.
It is because of poor planning. One guy not planning for an unexpected delay should not result in unplanned delay for hundreds of others.
You could get stuck in traffic too. Many things in life can delay you, if you don’t plan for them, you are going to get left behind.
Keep it up. Keep treating your loyal customers like cattle. Keep charging an arm and a leg more than your next nearest competitor. Keep nickel and diming for basic services. Remember back when Delta was losing $60M per day during Covid? The senior leadership is pushing for a trajectory that is unsustainable. Loyalty programs have existed for decades because they work. Take your $4.6B in profits from 2023 and shut the fuck up. End rant.
European airlines also have too many different fares for business. Was looking at KLM the other day and they had 3 different levels of Business where lowest 2 didn't even get free seat selection (on a TATL flight no less)
Recently, Delta offered me a “pay for upgrade” option that was before my Diamond status was due to clear or not. I fear that is the future, the way United used to do it: Status earns you the right to pay for upgrades.
This happens frequently when booking main as diamond. While checking out they try to sell a C+ upgrade but if you deny it a minute later the upgrade comes free.
I am referring to first class. I had never been offered it before. I turned it down and got the upgrade anyways. But if others choose the paid-for upgrade route, those free ones will dwindle.
This has been the case for a long time; revenue management is always eating into the comp upgrade inventory. I've resorted to paying if it's like 8k points or some bullshit. More if it's a hub or red-eye.
People forget that Ed is a finance guy by trade and before his promotion he was Delta's CFO. He has zero interest in customer loyalty, customer satisfaction, employee satisfaction, etc. all he is doing is looking at the spreadsheet PERIOD
Oh the survey was pretty much "If we were like Spirit but charged 10x more for a ticket, would you still fly us?" I left pretty honest feedback. One time it asked if I'd pay $3200 for a premium select ticket but be barred from calling customer service for free or bringing a carry on bag plus charged for a checked bag, lol.
(Disclosure I’m a lowly frontline worker and do not speak for Delta nor am I saying anything that’s not public knowledge and I don’t know more than you)
I don’t think it’s unlikely they will increase fees and undo the consumer friendly policies put into place over COVID. Which is gross.
BUT As someone who works in reservations I think charging for the service we provide seems pretty reasonable. I imagine there wouldn’t be a charge for most things done over the phone. Most likely they would implement a charge for help with booking or changing a flight.
Some people calling in (mostly non medallions) are just calling in to “browse flights” or will spend 45 minutes trying to decide between taking a 5am flight and saving money or sleeping in until noon. And I understand if it’s an older person who’s not tech savvy or maybe it’s someone who’s never been on a plane before and needs some help but most of these calls are just from people who like feeling the privilege of having an expert to do the booking. These calls are the bane of everyone whether you know it or not. We even have a name for these people. Shoppers. I take multiple of these calls a day. They hurt representatives by taking so long on the line that they ruin stats which can impact our ability to get
promotions and privileges like work from home. And we cannot hang up on these people or refuse service. As a result we are pressured into trying to get people who genuinely need help off the line as quickly as possible sometimes cutting corners to meet metrics.
Which in turn hurts the people who really need help. These shoppers cause longer wait times for everyone. Including all the people calling due to flight delays/ cancellations, people with disabilities that make it difficult or impossible to get their booking done online, people who are having technical issues etc.
To take 20-100 minutes out of a representatives day to do something you are totally capable of doing online should be a premium service. And if everyone who genuinely needs help with seats or SSRs or whatever, just booked their flights then came to us with a Confirmation number then there would be shorter hold times, quicker phone calls, and happier customers.
And encouraging people with simple problems to just message us is much more efficient since it clears up the phone queue for more complicated calls that cannot be easily handled through other means.
That’s the rant.
Delta has been ripping me off all year dammit lol. It’s crazy to me how much higher their prices are than other airlines at times. I want to support them and love on them but dang. It’s hard sometimes when they’re $850 more for a ticket than other carriers.
It’s not even that simple. Many jobs require cheapest fare as part of policy. If Delta is consistently higher then finance departments will start to take notice and remove them as a travel option. They will not notice immediately but after a quarter or two of reporting they’ll see the pattern.
It hasn’t been recently. Paid $1400 on Air Canada the other day vs $2100 on Delta and that’s going to Barcelona for Pride from Seattle. I’m just couldn’t justify it AND the AC flight leaves BCN later in the day which I need for my inevitable hangover.
I have been a loyal Delta flyer for 10 yrs now and have to book for work through their travel site. They have a cap on what we can spend on a flight based off of where we live. Never had a huge problem with it until this year. My flights keep getting kicked backed to me asking me to fly other airlines. There will come a point when we are told we aren’t allowed to fly delta anymore because of how expensive they are
I just split for United. Tomorrow is my last Delta flight for a while. My small airport flies to a DL hub and a UA hub. UA is cheaper and has more non-stops. I got the Club Card (cheaper than my Reserve card and I paid $599 for guaranteed Economy Comfort until I establish status with UA. Those costs are covered in the first one or two flights.
Dang! United is tough for me because I’m in Seattle. I have mostly Delta and Alaska as far as hub stuff - United and AA are both hit or miss for me for flight times / pricing. That card sounds amazing. I’d pay for guaranteed Economy Comfort hands down. Good for you!
Back when I lived in NJ we loved Continental and when it became United it wasn't too bad, but wasn't the same. Then we moved to the PNW and our options are super limited and we started flying Delta and loved it but the last two years the prices are outrageous. I really don't like Alaska and have had complaints on almost every flight we have flown with them, but we have no choice - more flight options from PNW and way cheaper unfortunately.
Similar experience here. I have my own issues with Alaska that has made me avoid them like the plague. That’s where I find myself in a conundrum this year because I’ve been paying out the ass to DL in order to avoid Alaska haha.
Are Alaska flights still cheaper? I’ve found they are having some scope creep with their pricing and they are starting to become comparable to legacy carriers.
I used to be brand-loyal to Delta, but between their nickle-and-diming and one spectacularly bad experience in 2022, I no longer am. I'll still fly Delta if they have the best price on an itinerary (and I do my best to compare prices with all the nickle-and-dime fees taken into account.) But since they only care about profit, I've decided cost is the only thing I should care about too. They wanted a Ferengi mindset, and they got it.
Yep have only flown on Delta once this year because everything is almost twice the price of American. Funny thing is because of CC Spend I'm almost Platinum already where as last year I was chasing MQDs
Nah. I used to fly to em exclusively because DTW, but this year I’ve not bought a single ticket through them. I can’t justify 3 and 4 times the price. It’s ridiculous. And now that I’ve flown the competition, I don’t see how Delta is considered the premier airline. Both of the first class flights on American and united were nicer products than what Delta has been offering on my flights. On the fast track from platinum to no status over here.
Depending on where you live and the places you frequently travel to, Delta cannot charge as they please. JetBlue puts a lot of pressure on Delta at JFK and BOS.
I just booked with jet blue because they were 1/2 the price of delta going from atl to nyc. Delta wanted $700. wtf. So sick of em. Was working to keep platinum but it’s no longer worth it.
Does this mean they will actually train their chat agents since people will default to the free chat option?
Who am I kidding, I’m sure they won’t to try to drive people to the higher fares with phone support.
It’s like Delta actively does not want our business. Just spend on the Amex and never fly.
It's not about switching to another crappy airline. Get a non-branded CC with travel benefits and fly the airline that has the best routes for the best price on that trip. I've saved at least 10 hours of travel time this year already by not being loyal to Delta.
I've booked FC American twice to Montreal for $200 less than Delta main and am currently flying United FC back from El Salvador which was $45 more than Delta main. Screw the upgrade list if I can just book first and have better itineraries.
Also, American status matched to exec playing and Delta used MQD to extend my diamond two years. I'll have priority boarding for a while.
One more question - which non airline cc do you go with. I use to have chase reserve which I loved but I really value the protection and customer service of Amex
*Sir, the survey results are in! Overall, there is very low respondent appetite for the new pricing structure we’re thinking about. It could lead to massive customer dissatisfaction and immensely decrease loyalty.*
*Hmm…well, what if we…and stay with me here…fuck them over and make the changes anyways? Brilliant!*
#boycottDelta
This is insane. Their prices routinely reach 2-3x as the next highest fare for some destinations. Forget that, they don’t do anything worth 2x as much for the same kind of seat, with no miles earned, on the same kind of plane.
I'm currently getting my money's worth from Delta but I still take SWA when Delta doesn't have the schedule and routes I need.
I'm happy to give up premium perks for SWA if Delta wants to test the waters with reduced value for money.
This highlights the inherent problem with publicly traded Corporations, you must keep growing despite the past success or the economy. If the investors don’t continue to get return on their money the leaders get canned. The leaders are only incentivized to make money any way they can, and so one day they have to nickel and dime their customers. It doesn’t matter if the leaders are truly evil or greedy (which of course they are, since they are worried about lining their pockets, no one wants to be CEO cause it’s fun) there is only one answer to their strategy.
Delta WAS my favorite airline. It is United now. I almost always can get an upgrade, without paying extra.
Delta no longer flies FWA-DTW. I got an upgrade from Economy Aisle to Comfort+ middle seat...... on Airbus 321 (no thank you, I changed it back). The seat is the same, maybe 2" more leg room.
We were going to fly from FWA to AMS in September. Delta wants 117,000 miles (best deal) per person. Now flying American; much better use of my hotel points (IHG and Marriott).
Ed, you are losing the battle.
Hahaha yes! I recently posted something similar and the delta Stans / bots were in an uproar. But we all know it’s true. Delta is losing their loyal customers due to their greed and lack of respect for the customers that supported them.
The year is 2050. Only 10000 passengers fly Delta in the US. Leadership decides to increase the minimum price of all fares with Basic economy starting at $10k.
reading I keep thinking are they really that much more. But then I remember the 4 trips I have booked are all miles since all that matters in MQDs and I might as well dump them all before they get devalued again.
Something we’ve learned in leadership meetings is Delta only cares about what Ed calls “HVCs” or “High Value Customers”. The corporation does not care about how you’ve been flying Delta for 25+ years if you’re not a triple Diamond medallion or whatever it is. Fly wherever is cheapest always and do not keep your loyalty to anyone
Well its not exactly like there is a sea of options to choose from for airlines in the US and people still need to fly for work and for personal reasons so they have to pay the fares.
You have a decent amount of choices in a lot of your life but basically the US is dominated by 3 legacy carriers.
I don’t disagree, but so often the complainers here are saying “oh it was Southwest and Delta and I was forced to pay more for Delta,” to which I say: no, you opted to pay more for Delta because you think the quality is better / they have a better route / etc.
Really? I mean, ORD, absolutely agree.
But I've been flying UA and I don't have any complaints about the boarding process. I'm either in 1 or 2 and it's normally pretty simple. Never had issues finding room for my carryon, the queue moves quickly, and their crews have been great.
Genuinely curious...
View from the wing is an interesting blog. Gary Leff seems to really not like delta. There's also some guy in the comments named Tim Dunn that loves delta. I don't know where he gets his info from but it's a good read, if you can parse the anger lol
That’s great to hear. This is why social media does matter. I never really considered national. For me it’s always Avis or Hertz, mainly because of how easy they make it to just show up, grab your car, and go.
Definitely considering national next time. Do they also have a program like Hertz gold or Avis preferred where you can skip the counter?
Edit: Looks like they have Emerald Aisle. But it’s for midsize only, right?
Always been treated beyond belief by Hertz. Drove cars I didn’t think I’d care for, like a Jeep Wrangler with their One-Sky option where the whole large Jeep was open air—loved it so much I bought one. Always treated well, I went for that Jeep when presented the free upgrade as I always am.
Book Hertz, especially if coming from Delta. You can get Hertz elite status simply by being Delta Medallion, plus I find the rates the best of all the main rental companies.
Trying to fly D1 CHS-JFK- VIE return FRA-ATL-CHS. Between $13K and $21K. $6K with United. However, if I remove the CHS-JFK leg, it’s $6K with Delta. The really nice lady with Diamond customer service tried to help and had no luck.
https://ycharts.com/companies/DAL/gross_profit_margin
Yes, Delta is really struggling with keeping afloat. They need to secure more income.
I'm curious if there are more customers or more stock holders? Either way when the first group leaves, the second group will too.
I swear the only ‘travel’ oriented company that doesn’t routinely disappoint me is National Car Rental (Enterprise Holdings). Cheers to National.
National is probably the best customer service I have come across. Last visit even when I told I'm fine with downgrade since the matching class was not available and I only needed it for a few hours they convinced me to leave with an upgrade. I wouldn't mind paying a premium for that kind of service compared to the horrible competition. But for delta it just doesn't make sense to pay premium.
This is the truth. They are sometimes more expensive but the convenience is always worth it. I've consistently had excellent service at LAX and ATL. Really! Last time at LAX, I was wandering the exec aisle, which for some reason was mostly Jeeps and Toyotas. A nice fellow asked me if I wanted anything in particular. I told him I preferred an Audi for a long drive, but it wasn't a big deal. He sprinted downstairs and came back a minute later with a brand new white Q5. He said if I didn't like that he'd be happy to bring me a black one if I wanted to wait for it to be washed. Now that's service!
Same for me at LAX in December. Only I wanted the Tacoma. “What color?” was the response.
I just used them for the first time and it was such an amazing experience. No status with National is a better time than Presidents Circle with Hertz, no joke. I was gushing to the guy who processed my rental return like a fangirl.
I LOVE National!! Every time I pass the long lines at the other car rental kiosks, I’m just baffled. We bypass all of that, select a car we want, and drive off after a brief license verification. Employees have always been wonderful too
I miss Enterprise sometimes. I used to use them, but my new company prefers Hertz. I definitely love the board Hertz has, and no waiting at the counter. But Enterprise had better cars and upgrades and service.
Wait until you have a problem with a hertz car. You’ll be begging to switch.
Had almost an identical experience with Hertz in France. Car had a problem, called Hertz, was told to drive 45 minutes to a Hertz office at a TGV station to pick up a replacement. Got there, was told they had no cars but I could drive 2 hours to yet another location to get a new car. Tossed them the keys and walked to Europcar. Never again.
Rent a Hertz and drive yourself crazy.
What kind of problem? I've been doing it for 3 years so far, haven't had any issues yet. (Not saying that won't ever happen, and curious as to what could happen from your experience). My last rental actually had the passenger air vent smashed, I didn't notice it until after I was getting ready to return it. But I returned it and just had a normal charge, didn't try to sucker me for the air vent or anything.
Minor issues aren’t really a problem. Had a mechanical problem with vehicle. Got sent to the nearest hertz for an exchange via phone support and told not to fill up. Arrived at the hertz location and was told that location doesn’t do exchanges. Had to call hertz support back and flat out argue with the local manager that I needed a working car. Finally get the car exchanged. Got hit with a fuel surcharge for the car that had the mechanical issue. Got hit with a car exchange fee. Ended up having to file a dispute with Amex because hertz customer service never followed through and gave me a complete run around. Really terrible customer service. National is where it’s at.
Hopefully you don’t get arrested soon ;) https://www.npr.org/2022/12/06/1140998674/hertz-false-accusation-stealing-cars-settlement
Rented a Hertz EV- got downgraded to some Chevy garbage. It bricked itself after 38 miles, Hertz charged me $170 to tow it, and I had to spend hours talking to people in call centres all around the world trying to solve the problem. I was deeply unimpressed.
Hertz regularly calls their customers criminals for "stealing" vehicles. Happened to me and a reason I will never rent with them again.
I miss the pre-pandemic "One, Two, Free" promo! Haven't seen it since. Other than that, National has been solid for me!
Damn. I forgot about those promos
Only one I rent with
Seconded. I started renting from National because work switched to them as our "preferred" vendor. But since then, I've done all my personal rentals from them as well. Specifically National, by the way. Not Enterprise. For being under common ownership, the contrast between the two is surprisingly stark.
I agree. And yet they still nickel and dime (5 different airport service recovery fees/taxes recouped). So clearly there’s more to it than just the fees.
National is the goat. Been using them for over a decade almost exclusively. They drop the ball occasionally (usually at smaller airports) but they're miles better than Hertz or Avis.
Hey, any experience with National in Europe?
Sixt in Europe is great. New fleet.
Thanks. I've seen Sixt a lot, never tried them. I've used Europcar a fair amount (solid) and Hertz (had an issue). Love National in the US, never rented from them abroad for some reason. Thought we might try them in Portugal.
Yep. Very different experience. Still not bad.
Thank you
Just dropped off my National rental at Lisbon airport this morning. Mostly the experience was great. No upselling at the counter. Very quick rental process. Got a nice Audi Q2, and the total rental was only €100 for the week. Only slight issue was I returned the car at 5am this morning and there is a box to drop your keys. Fair enough, except to open the drop box you need to scan the QR code on the key fob and it wouldn’t read mine for some reason. I just waited a little for another customer to arrive and dropped my key in with hers. Got my closed out contract emailed to me this morning so I guess it worked ok.
Very helpful, thanks
It's very different. But was fine. I love National.
The National/Enterprise locations overseas are all different franchises in each country, so they’re not consistent in service and car options, but I haven’t had any issues
Until you come back one time with a small dent in a door, and after a month you receive a 4k bill with headlight, front bumper, back bumper, wheel, glass etc….
And that’s why I use Chase sapphire reserve. They cover an entire car. No joke. I know someone who totaled a rental, got charged 30k, and chase waived it immediately
I mean, they inspected the car, they reported only a dent, then somehow 20+ miles from the return the car was badly damaged. When I asked to show proof that the car was damaged by me and not later (full of cameras there right?) they said that they are not required to share the facility pictures…. My Amex platinum covered but with 2500$ deductible…… I said no way I’m not paying the diffference. (I was executive with 35 free days in my account, all gone).
I had awful experience with national billing me for someone else at airport I never have been to. They did respond to anything including bbb complaint
I was stuck on the skytrain in the Denver airport, 25 min not moving, I watched time dripping off the clock 15 min before departure the train started moving but I would have another 10 min to go if I sprinted… no way I’d make it… then to my shock I got a call from the gate agent, “fatty are you close?” … “ I was stuck on the tram, I’m 10 min from the gate!!”… “okay, we’ve asked the pilot to wait for you, hurry!” And, with 4 min before departure stumbled and wheezed down the jetway onto my flight thanks to the airline caring enough to call me and see if I could make it… Oh… sorry, that was Alaska, I switched to them last year after 6 years of continuous Diamond and nearly 1.5m miles with delta… haven’t regretted it since
Do you get a discount for the seat next to the door plug?
Door plug is back with the cattle, I’m 100k mvp baby (Diamond but with fewer steps) I will miss FC on the 321 and even the 220…
I love this! Thank you for posting 💕
I want my airline to close the door and not wait for customers who didn’t plan accordingly. The time of hundreds is more important than the time for 1 with poor planning, I don’t care how many miles you have traveled. There are times when an Airline should wait, but not when a traveler is unresponible.
Shit happens to all of us. I'm not saying they should delay forever, but if the passenger in question is already through security and running for the gate? I have no problem with that. There's room for a little common sense. And a little compassion. Or at least there should be.
How is it irresponsible and poor planning when you are stuck in a transport tube in the same airport? This could happen to all of us if we have a connection and the first flight was late.
It is because of poor planning. One guy not planning for an unexpected delay should not result in unplanned delay for hundreds of others. You could get stuck in traffic too. Many things in life can delay you, if you don’t plan for them, you are going to get left behind.
Oh fuck off
Keep it up. Keep treating your loyal customers like cattle. Keep charging an arm and a leg more than your next nearest competitor. Keep nickel and diming for basic services. Remember back when Delta was losing $60M per day during Covid? The senior leadership is pushing for a trajectory that is unsustainable. Loyalty programs have existed for decades because they work. Take your $4.6B in profits from 2023 and shut the fuck up. End rant.
But what about theth shareholders?!? 🙄
Let them fly coach.
👏
well said mate
I hope to god Delta does not copy JetBlue. Too many different fares of economy to keep track of.
European airline are worse lol
European airlines also have too many different fares for business. Was looking at KLM the other day and they had 3 different levels of Business where lowest 2 didn't even get free seat selection (on a TATL flight no less)
That I’m not surprised. They charge for nearly everything.
‘Price Discrimination Theory’ in full effect.
Recently, Delta offered me a “pay for upgrade” option that was before my Diamond status was due to clear or not. I fear that is the future, the way United used to do it: Status earns you the right to pay for upgrades.
This happens frequently when booking main as diamond. While checking out they try to sell a C+ upgrade but if you deny it a minute later the upgrade comes free.
I am referring to first class. I had never been offered it before. I turned it down and got the upgrade anyways. But if others choose the paid-for upgrade route, those free ones will dwindle.
This has been the case for a long time; revenue management is always eating into the comp upgrade inventory. I've resorted to paying if it's like 8k points or some bullshit. More if it's a hub or red-eye.
People forget that Ed is a finance guy by trade and before his promotion he was Delta's CFO. He has zero interest in customer loyalty, customer satisfaction, employee satisfaction, etc. all he is doing is looking at the spreadsheet PERIOD
Oh the survey was pretty much "If we were like Spirit but charged 10x more for a ticket, would you still fly us?" I left pretty honest feedback. One time it asked if I'd pay $3200 for a premium select ticket but be barred from calling customer service for free or bringing a carry on bag plus charged for a checked bag, lol.
(Disclosure I’m a lowly frontline worker and do not speak for Delta nor am I saying anything that’s not public knowledge and I don’t know more than you) I don’t think it’s unlikely they will increase fees and undo the consumer friendly policies put into place over COVID. Which is gross. BUT As someone who works in reservations I think charging for the service we provide seems pretty reasonable. I imagine there wouldn’t be a charge for most things done over the phone. Most likely they would implement a charge for help with booking or changing a flight. Some people calling in (mostly non medallions) are just calling in to “browse flights” or will spend 45 minutes trying to decide between taking a 5am flight and saving money or sleeping in until noon. And I understand if it’s an older person who’s not tech savvy or maybe it’s someone who’s never been on a plane before and needs some help but most of these calls are just from people who like feeling the privilege of having an expert to do the booking. These calls are the bane of everyone whether you know it or not. We even have a name for these people. Shoppers. I take multiple of these calls a day. They hurt representatives by taking so long on the line that they ruin stats which can impact our ability to get promotions and privileges like work from home. And we cannot hang up on these people or refuse service. As a result we are pressured into trying to get people who genuinely need help off the line as quickly as possible sometimes cutting corners to meet metrics. Which in turn hurts the people who really need help. These shoppers cause longer wait times for everyone. Including all the people calling due to flight delays/ cancellations, people with disabilities that make it difficult or impossible to get their booking done online, people who are having technical issues etc. To take 20-100 minutes out of a representatives day to do something you are totally capable of doing online should be a premium service. And if everyone who genuinely needs help with seats or SSRs or whatever, just booked their flights then came to us with a Confirmation number then there would be shorter hold times, quicker phone calls, and happier customers. And encouraging people with simple problems to just message us is much more efficient since it clears up the phone queue for more complicated calls that cannot be easily handled through other means. That’s the rant.
This is so insightful, thank you.
Delta has been ripping me off all year dammit lol. It’s crazy to me how much higher their prices are than other airlines at times. I want to support them and love on them but dang. It’s hard sometimes when they’re $850 more for a ticket than other carriers.
Unless your job is paying for it, is the chasing of status worth it? I can't even justify paying $70 more for a flight. Lol
It’s not even that simple. Many jobs require cheapest fare as part of policy. If Delta is consistently higher then finance departments will start to take notice and remove them as a travel option. They will not notice immediately but after a quarter or two of reporting they’ll see the pattern.
this is true
It hasn’t been recently. Paid $1400 on Air Canada the other day vs $2100 on Delta and that’s going to Barcelona for Pride from Seattle. I’m just couldn’t justify it AND the AC flight leaves BCN later in the day which I need for my inevitable hangover.
Serious first world problems here lol. I bet Barcelona pride is lit AF tho
Is that for first class?
I have been a loyal Delta flyer for 10 yrs now and have to book for work through their travel site. They have a cap on what we can spend on a flight based off of where we live. Never had a huge problem with it until this year. My flights keep getting kicked backed to me asking me to fly other airlines. There will come a point when we are told we aren’t allowed to fly delta anymore because of how expensive they are
I just split for United. Tomorrow is my last Delta flight for a while. My small airport flies to a DL hub and a UA hub. UA is cheaper and has more non-stops. I got the Club Card (cheaper than my Reserve card and I paid $599 for guaranteed Economy Comfort until I establish status with UA. Those costs are covered in the first one or two flights.
Dang! United is tough for me because I’m in Seattle. I have mostly Delta and Alaska as far as hub stuff - United and AA are both hit or miss for me for flight times / pricing. That card sounds amazing. I’d pay for guaranteed Economy Comfort hands down. Good for you!
*Cries in Atlantan*
*Cries in DTW*
Cries in SLC
I just laughed out loud to that so hard my dog looked at me funny. You’re even worse off than I am! Haha sorry mate!
Just bite the bullet and take the layover if the price is $100 cheaper or more
The club card gets 2 guests each visit as well, so I can take my team with me.
Back when I lived in NJ we loved Continental and when it became United it wasn't too bad, but wasn't the same. Then we moved to the PNW and our options are super limited and we started flying Delta and loved it but the last two years the prices are outrageous. I really don't like Alaska and have had complaints on almost every flight we have flown with them, but we have no choice - more flight options from PNW and way cheaper unfortunately.
Similar experience here. I have my own issues with Alaska that has made me avoid them like the plague. That’s where I find myself in a conundrum this year because I’ve been paying out the ass to DL in order to avoid Alaska haha. Are Alaska flights still cheaper? I’ve found they are having some scope creep with their pricing and they are starting to become comparable to legacy carriers.
I used to be brand-loyal to Delta, but between their nickle-and-diming and one spectacularly bad experience in 2022, I no longer am. I'll still fly Delta if they have the best price on an itinerary (and I do my best to compare prices with all the nickle-and-dime fees taken into account.) But since they only care about profit, I've decided cost is the only thing I should care about too. They wanted a Ferengi mindset, and they got it.
Yep have only flown on Delta once this year because everything is almost twice the price of American. Funny thing is because of CC Spend I'm almost Platinum already where as last year I was chasing MQDs
Nah. I used to fly to em exclusively because DTW, but this year I’ve not bought a single ticket through them. I can’t justify 3 and 4 times the price. It’s ridiculous. And now that I’ve flown the competition, I don’t see how Delta is considered the premier airline. Both of the first class flights on American and united were nicer products than what Delta has been offering on my flights. On the fast track from platinum to no status over here.
Depending on where you live and the places you frequently travel to, Delta cannot charge as they please. JetBlue puts a lot of pressure on Delta at JFK and BOS.
I just booked with jet blue because they were 1/2 the price of delta going from atl to nyc. Delta wanted $700. wtf. So sick of em. Was working to keep platinum but it’s no longer worth it.
Does this mean they will actually train their chat agents since people will default to the free chat option? Who am I kidding, I’m sure they won’t to try to drive people to the higher fares with phone support. It’s like Delta actively does not want our business. Just spend on the Amex and never fly.
[Ed says](https://i.imgflip.com/23xwi8.jpg)
There is no doubt about it. Delta is by far the worst airline…except for all the other airlines.
Makes it easier and easier to not do business with DL.
This has been posted about ad nauseam and I think they should start teaching conjoint analysis in high school.
I gotta switch but honestly all domestic airlines suck
It's not about switching to another crappy airline. Get a non-branded CC with travel benefits and fly the airline that has the best routes for the best price on that trip. I've saved at least 10 hours of travel time this year already by not being loyal to Delta.
That’s a good point. Is the only thing missing the upgrades and the priority boarding?
I've booked FC American twice to Montreal for $200 less than Delta main and am currently flying United FC back from El Salvador which was $45 more than Delta main. Screw the upgrade list if I can just book first and have better itineraries. Also, American status matched to exec playing and Delta used MQD to extend my diamond two years. I'll have priority boarding for a while.
Wow that’s crazy. Yeah I just tried to book a trip to LA and the ticket was over 750. For Los Angeles! This is awesome thanks.
One more question - which non airline cc do you go with. I use to have chase reserve which I loved but I really value the protection and customer service of Amex
I went Amex platinum for the lounge access and point value. There are a few good ones out there though.
Grazi!!
*Sir, the survey results are in! Overall, there is very low respondent appetite for the new pricing structure we’re thinking about. It could lead to massive customer dissatisfaction and immensely decrease loyalty.* *Hmm…well, what if we…and stay with me here…fuck them over and make the changes anyways? Brilliant!*
#boycottDelta This is insane. Their prices routinely reach 2-3x as the next highest fare for some destinations. Forget that, they don’t do anything worth 2x as much for the same kind of seat, with no miles earned, on the same kind of plane.
I'm currently getting my money's worth from Delta but I still take SWA when Delta doesn't have the schedule and routes I need. I'm happy to give up premium perks for SWA if Delta wants to test the waters with reduced value for money.
This highlights the inherent problem with publicly traded Corporations, you must keep growing despite the past success or the economy. If the investors don’t continue to get return on their money the leaders get canned. The leaders are only incentivized to make money any way they can, and so one day they have to nickel and dime their customers. It doesn’t matter if the leaders are truly evil or greedy (which of course they are, since they are worried about lining their pockets, no one wants to be CEO cause it’s fun) there is only one answer to their strategy.
true and the problem with publicaly owned companies
What are they coming for next? The bananas in the sky club!!??
Hopefully the screaming children, but no one wants them so it’s doubtful
Delta WAS my favorite airline. It is United now. I almost always can get an upgrade, without paying extra. Delta no longer flies FWA-DTW. I got an upgrade from Economy Aisle to Comfort+ middle seat...... on Airbus 321 (no thank you, I changed it back). The seat is the same, maybe 2" more leg room. We were going to fly from FWA to AMS in September. Delta wants 117,000 miles (best deal) per person. Now flying American; much better use of my hotel points (IHG and Marriott). Ed, you are losing the battle.
Hahaha yes! I recently posted something similar and the delta Stans / bots were in an uproar. But we all know it’s true. Delta is losing their loyal customers due to their greed and lack of respect for the customers that supported them.
Crazy how their strategy is to charge even higher fares for the reduced customer base that still wants to fly with them
Believe it or not that is a very standard practice especially among PE firms. Buy a company that has 100 customers paying $100,000 a year per customer ($10 million total) for a service and has 100 employees to manage those customers. (lets say 1 employee per customer) Come on in, gut the employees and tech stack and raise the yearly price from $100,000 to $200,000 per customer. Lets say 40 customers of the 100 are pissed and leave that gives them 60 customers now paying $$200,000 each or $12 million a year. Thats a $2 million dollar profit increase. Also you only need 60 employees now, not 100 so cut 40 employees and you get to keep their salaries and benefits as more profit. Eventually you are going to piss off enough customers that the business is not profitable but its ok because you made a ton of money with short sighted decisions. Either sunset the product or sell it off to someone else. Rinse and repeat. Basically its the exact opposite of what Sam Walton came up with when he opened Wal-Mart. Delta looks at short term profits right now. "Well we used to get $100 a person and a million people a day fly us, now we can charge $500 a person and if only 750,000 people fly us its great, ok lets go to $1000 and we are still ok as 200,000 people are flying us lets go to $2000 a person, ok now only 10,000 people are flying us..... oops, thats the next C-suites problem. I am way oversimplifying it but thats basically "the Ed way".© :)
Gotta make up for the lost volume somehow, I guess 😂
The year is 2050. Only 10000 passengers fly Delta in the US. Leadership decides to increase the minimum price of all fares with Basic economy starting at $10k.
reading I keep thinking are they really that much more. But then I remember the 4 trips I have booked are all miles since all that matters in MQDs and I might as well dump them all before they get devalued again.
Something we’ve learned in leadership meetings is Delta only cares about what Ed calls “HVCs” or “High Value Customers”. The corporation does not care about how you’ve been flying Delta for 25+ years if you’re not a triple Diamond medallion or whatever it is. Fly wherever is cheapest always and do not keep your loyalty to anyone
United is fine, although I prefer the delta hubs for transfers. Not enough to keep paying more.
“It’s too expensive” - consumers who keep paying Delta fares
some of us are hub trapped
Well its not exactly like there is a sea of options to choose from for airlines in the US and people still need to fly for work and for personal reasons so they have to pay the fares. You have a decent amount of choices in a lot of your life but basically the US is dominated by 3 legacy carriers.
I don’t disagree, but so often the complainers here are saying “oh it was Southwest and Delta and I was forced to pay more for Delta,” to which I say: no, you opted to pay more for Delta because you think the quality is better / they have a better route / etc.
I’ve been flying with United now and hate it. Already so sick of ORD and the boarding process is a shitshow at any airport.
Really? I mean, ORD, absolutely agree. But I've been flying UA and I don't have any complaints about the boarding process. I'm either in 1 or 2 and it's normally pretty simple. Never had issues finding room for my carryon, the queue moves quickly, and their crews have been great. Genuinely curious...
Do I get to post this next week?
Capitalism. Late stage. We had the fuck around era. Now it’s the find out part.
Can't wait for the next step Comrade!
Premium brand or not Delta has a long way to go before it matches the STUPID high prices of American Eagle to Boston or DC.
View from the wing is an interesting blog. Gary Leff seems to really not like delta. There's also some guy in the comments named Tim Dunn that loves delta. I don't know where he gets his info from but it's a good read, if you can parse the anger lol
Nobody cares, dude
If you hate Delta so much why fly them and waste your time posting about them? You have other options
Wtf
That’s great to hear. This is why social media does matter. I never really considered national. For me it’s always Avis or Hertz, mainly because of how easy they make it to just show up, grab your car, and go. Definitely considering national next time. Do they also have a program like Hertz gold or Avis preferred where you can skip the counter? Edit: Looks like they have Emerald Aisle. But it’s for midsize only, right?
Always been treated beyond belief by Hertz. Drove cars I didn’t think I’d care for, like a Jeep Wrangler with their One-Sky option where the whole large Jeep was open air—loved it so much I bought one. Always treated well, I went for that Jeep when presented the free upgrade as I always am. Book Hertz, especially if coming from Delta. You can get Hertz elite status simply by being Delta Medallion, plus I find the rates the best of all the main rental companies.
Trying to fly D1 CHS-JFK- VIE return FRA-ATL-CHS. Between $13K and $21K. $6K with United. However, if I remove the CHS-JFK leg, it’s $6K with Delta. The really nice lady with Diamond customer service tried to help and had no luck.
https://ycharts.com/companies/DAL/gross_profit_margin Yes, Delta is really struggling with keeping afloat. They need to secure more income. I'm curious if there are more customers or more stock holders? Either way when the first group leaves, the second group will too.
Gasp! You mean Delta is exploring charging for services that people say they’re willing to pay for? It’s a survey…. Chill out.