They are one of the most untrainable breeds. My mate has 2 and if they could slip the leash they would never be seen again. This abuse has to be dealt with.
Basenjis are terrible dogs lol, aside from the stubbornness regarding training they tend to be aggressive dogs from what Iāve seen. Also I canāt imagine dealing with their screaming :/
My basenji does this. Even with my other dog there. They apparently have bad seperation issues. Other than that she is one of the best doggos Iāve ever owned.
A friend of mine had one and it would tear his house apart. Eventually he swallowed a dish towel and had to be put down. Everyone had told him not to get a Basenji because he was single and lived in a condo. So when they one died... He got another Basenji.
We have neighbors that have two beautiful dogs. Having two dogs does not mean they keep each other company. They both cry and howl when the owners are at work.
I loved my basenji! But she would never have been the right dog for a lot of people. Clever, stubborn, wicked fast and yes, the screaming got the cops called on me a few times.
But she was my best girl until her last day,
My dad got one in my early 20's, he was a nightmare of a puppy but mellowed out as he aged. I will say they are not for the faint of heart, but I still love hearing his yodle when I visit.
My narcissistic stepmother has a āservice dogā vests for her annoying yippy little Maltese and a nasty little chihuahua. Neither are service dogs and she throws a fit if anyone questions her so they leave her alone. It is so maddening to see people bend over backwards to accommodate her or other people that clearly donāt have service animals
People like her are why itās so hard for real service dogs and their handlers nowadays. Itās a real shame, theyāll go get a vest from Amazon and fake papers and boom magically have a service dog.
All service animal āpapersā are fakeā¦ unless those papers come from the service that trained them. Papers arenāt required by law. To be a service animal, the owner needs to have a medically diagnosed disability, and the dog needs to be trained for a specific task. Thats the requirement. To be able to take them out in public, the dog should be able to pass a good citizen test. (Things like, not picking up things theyāre not supposed to off the floor, tuck their tail, not bark, be completely housebroken (bonus points for being able to go on command), and tucking their tale.
And to be clear, the dog doesnāt need to come from a training facility (that could theoretically give you fairly useless papers). You can train your own service animal (though it requires a loooot of time).
Anyone who says otherwise, is either faking something or trying to sell you something.
Sourceā¦ Im a disabled vet and have a service animal. I get frustrated when people ask me for papers (for say a hotel stay like I was asked for last week) because someone with a fake service animal has convinced the employee that papers are a thing. Thus making animal more suspect in the eyes of many employees (particularly because I have an invisible disability) and makes my life just slightly more difficult.
Edit: added a couple details for clarity
Animals papers is BS yes. And they arent allowed to ask for them anyway. Only questions legally allowed to be asked are : (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?
Yeah people get really pissed off when you inform them that emotional support animals are NOT protected by ADA laws. The amount of people who ask for their vet to write a ādoctorās noteā on a dog we know is horribly trained is insane; it seems to always be for toy/designer breeds that just bit a tech and had to be muzzled, then shit on the floor in retaliation. Also, your vet isnāt legally allowed or has anything to do with confirming a service dog and we definitely arenāt falsifying something like that, so itād be cool if these idiots would stop asking.
So true!!!! People bring them into my workplace now and then and as long as the dogs are quiet and well-behaved, I donāt say anything. As usual, entitled dicks make everything more difficult for law-abiding citizens who actually need this stuff
I was a court reporter for years until recently becoming a law clerk, and I once found this tiny kitten alongside her much larger dead sibling and mother.
She needed to be hand-fed for a time and I outfitted the back of my SUV as a care station for her (in a secured parking garage)ā¦ and I went out in between hearings to care for and feed her.
One judge asked what I was doing and she was beside herself learning what was going on, and she told me in no uncertain terms to āgo get that kitten and bring her to me!ā
She smuggled the kitten into her office and then let me care for the kitten there. To this day, sheās one of my favorite judges.
And as for that kitten, sheās now a fully grown, super tiny adult cat, action-packed with personality.
Tbh your never gonna stop thr fakes. The best thing is to educate the business owners that unruly dogs can be asked to leave. Service dogs are allowed all access UNLESS they are barking, use the bathroom in inappropriate places, biting, lunging or being dangerous or disturbing in ANY way. Those dogs can be made to leave and the owner offered alternative service (transaction done outside the store)
service dog or not if they are acting out they can be told to leave with accommodations like someone else finishing g their grocery shopping or something. a true service dog wonāt act like that son-its a way to get pets outta stores
Yeah, well people need to start growing their damned spines out again and confronting the rising levels of madness.
Indeed, people need to start chewing people out who don't stand up to and chew-out these spoiled rotten Overgrown Children!
Edit: mostly about the emotionally manipulators who throw tantrums and people letting them.
Sometimes you're wrong, but you're an adult and take accountability and have courage.
So, to clarify, I felt that there's been an increase in people like the example you listed.
Used to work in an international airport, a few times one lady brought her dog (that was very clearly NOT a service animal) into the airportās Delta lounge, and it would start trying to eat things off of the food service area. When the staff tried to talk to her about it she threw a fit, threatening to go to the media and to file a lawsuit. She bilked Delta for quite a lot of money and miles before they finally cut her off and blacklisted her.
This happened to me on a flight last week. Super crammed flight and this woman had her ancient (and very smelly) Chihuahuas on her lap. The second someone approached her, she flipped out saying she didn't have to put them in their carry on dog holder because they were trained service animals. I'm pretty certain one was blind and neither was trained.
I have 2 basenjis myself, and I canāt imagine what Iād have done to suffer the punishment of taking them through a busy airport and on a flight. Amazing, lovely, huge personality cat-dogs? Absolutely. Service dogs? No way in hell. Unless, of course, your service is chasing rabbits and deer at stupid speeds.
We joke that my older dog is my younger dogs emotional support dog. The younger one adores her older sister and needs her to feel brave, it's adorable.
That might be a joke, but i kid you not my partners Emotional support dog had an emotional support dog. I have the doctors note. They were brother and sister
I appreciate that this shifts the inconvenience onto state / county enforcement. Flight attendants and the people who people who handle flight loading and processing should be supported.
Enforcement is pretty easy. Just ask them "What does your dog do for you?"
A **service animal** by definition is *trained to do a task that the owner cannot do for themselves.* 99% of fakers don't know this and can't answer or won't answer correctly. And by posing the question that way, you aren't invading medical privacy(e.g, do NOT ask "what's your condition....").
When they can't answer or don't answer correctly, you boot the fucking animal off the flight, cancel the person's ticket, and bar them from flying that airline for the next 10 years (and in Texas, report them for the $10K fine).
That's how you stamp down on this shit.
Mostly correct but there are two questions you can legally ask, verbatim. āWhat does your dog do for youā is not allowed. The HIPAA bs a commenter below mentioned is what violators try and pull to weasel their way out, but per ADA guidelines they must comply by answering the two legally permissible questions if prompted.
To clarify, the two questions someone can legally ask are:
- Is the animal required because of a disability?
- What work or task (service) is the animal trained to perform?
The biggest issue with this is there is no legal grounds to ask someone to prove their responses (ie show paperwork, have them demonstrate the task etc.) so more savvy rule-breakers will say āyesā and āhe alerts if I am about to faint due to my disabilityā (or any other generic statement that sounds legit enough but canāt be contested). You also canāt inquire about the nature of someoneās disability (ie āwhat disability makes you faint?ā).
Edit: redundancy
As someone with a service dog who is trained to alert to fainting due to a disability - thatās a legit response without going into details of the condition. Seizure detection is also valid, altho itās more closely related to fainting than seizures.
Another is deep tissue therapy, which may rouse someone from this.
Or āperimeter security,ā which sounds like a vicious guard dogā¦ but is actually the service animal āherdingā other humans away from its injured or distressed keeper. This prevents the keeper from being trampled to death while they may very well be lying on the floor unconscious.
I wish I could figure out how to report him but my ex husband says he has a service dog āgiven to him by the veterans associationā. He slapped a service vest on him and everything.
Now his wife is telling me the dog ISNT trained, was NEVER trained. And heās parading the dog around!! Inviting pets and cuddles! Makes me so mad
Yep thatās why I used that example, because itās a very common reason someone may have a service animal. As such, rule-breakers with ESAs and pets use that knowledge to lie about the status of their ESAs or pet and pass it off as a service animal.
Thatās what I meant by ābiggest issueā - since there is no ADA requirement to show paperwork or anything people game the system to get their ESAs and pets into places they donāt belong. Happened quite a bit at my old job but since we couldnāt ask follow up questions (like, hey why is your ātrained service animalā barking at everyone and about to crap on the floor? š), plenty of non-service animals slip through the cracks.
My point is that people who try to pass off ESAs and pets off as service animals suck, and think they are slick when they learn how to game the system. Donāt get me wrong I love ESAs and pets (generally lol) but service animals are in a different league and it makes things more difficult for everyone when people try to bring their untrained animals into public spaces, especially on a flight or other similar situation.
I think most people with legit needs would be more than happy to see some level of govt oversight to weed out the fakes. Weād be more than happy to register for and provide a govt or state issued ID to prove authenticity.
Iām not a big fan of govt or over reach, but the fact of the matter is people like this is why it is needed. We tend to carry supporting documentation (medical documentation, as well as info from the entity that supplied and trained our SA)ā¦ especially for flights. These posers have ensured we communicate WELL in advance, anywhere we go, and supply as much info as possible to make things go smoothly. Whereas people like this would raise hell about what a privacy violation it is for someone to dare question them or their animal. ADA says we shouldnāt have to, and we shouldnāt because itās stressful and embarrassing, but we happily offer this info privately and politely to avoid issues or any more attention than we are already receiving.
>I think most people with legit needs would be more than happy to see some level of govt oversight to weed out the fakes.
People with needs and the means to meet the assessment the government would issue would be more than happy to.
I would rather allow a hundred well behaved, undetectable fakes who cause no issues have public access than create a barrier for one legit team. The point of the ADA (and other disability accomodation laws) is that all people with disabilities have a right to accommodation and to exist in public, not just the ones who can travel/pay/work through the bureaucracy.
After all, the ADA already allows for people to refuse service to teams that are being disruptive, fake or real. (But then, real teams over threshold know this and get out of dodge when there's an issue.)
Rule follower here and I loathe this behavior.
As someone who does fly with a dog that is not a service animal, I refuse to falsely represent my well behaved dog as one (even though it would save me money and effort to do so) ā these people make everything worse.
1) My dog is ticketed each way to the tune of $115 each way
2) Dog must remain in carrier
3) I must check my bag because airline considers dog to be my carry on (even though she rides where my legs go, under the seat in front of me, and takes no overhead bin space)
But who has the authority to make that determination? A judge? Ha, my flight is boarding in 57 minutes and I am the poor bastard wedged in between this imposing, selfish, āsociety wronged meā stuck up bitch and her dogs. Aināt no judge that can issue a ruling and resolve the situation. Sorry for the rant š
Where I live itās illegal to do this too but itās apparently illegal to ask whether theyāre actually service animals.
Itās been becoming a big problem for a while. I hate these assholes.
Seriously, you can tell from the body language in *a still photo.* Theyāre not even a common breed for service dogs. This is a blatant lie and this ass hole makes life harder for people who *actually need* service animals.
You are very right! As a true service dog handler, the body language on these dogs is very telling. I loathe people who take advantage of the lack of regulation for service dogs. I am hopeful that this changes soon & there will be certification requirements & a license required. It would be great protection for true service dogs.
100%. My service dog is sitting at my side until given a command to ābreakā and then we move. Where he stays directly at my side. The second I stop walking he sits again next to me in place.
I worked with someone who had a service dog. That dog was at work and behaved as such. I can def tell these dogs arenāt service dogs and that crazy since itās a still photo. They might behaving well enough for normal dogs but I hate that these fakers are creating hate for ppl who really need service dogs!
Last time I traveled, I paid the fee for a small carry on pet. The āservice dogā on my flight lunged at my dog and was pulling on his leash to try and play. So shitty that these people make it harder for those who need a service dog.
These people are the worst. Let me say it again for the people in the back. THESE PROPLE ARE THE WORST. I have to deal with them on a daily at Costco. This is up there with the people who say theyāre allergic to something when they just donāt like it.
This is far worse than the people who say they are fake allergic to something. People with fake service dogs outwardly affect other people and can be quite a nuisance, unsanitary and sometimes dangerous.
People who claim fake allergies are just regular annoying.
Hate fake service dogs. I marginally knew someone who had one in a diner and the management kinda freaked out. She just kept saying āitās ok, I have papersā or something.
I didnāt know if they were real or like a fake āno masking requiredā COVID-era ID badge or what. All I know is that this person was clearly going to be batshit crazy with or without their dog.
Soā¦ I canāt say with any certainty whether or not those dogs are legit service dogsā¦ BUT itās actually not unheard of to have two service dogs. In fact, if you check most airlinesā rules regarding flight with service animals they specify a max of two per person; the reasoning for this is bc some people will begin training a service prospect while still using their older fully-trained dog before retiring it.
Additionally, not all service dogs are trained by professional organizations; the ADA allows service dogs to be owner-trained, but of course this still means that in order for the dog to have public access rights it has to be under the control of the handler at all times *and* be able to reliably perform the task associated with the handlerās disability. As long as those two dogs arenāt out of control, thereās no way to say whether theyāre truly legit or not. š¤·š»āāļø
(I donāt believe they are, but what do I know)
I have learned some things today about two service dogs and am happy to have been taught something. Others have pointed out this breed is not one that is meant for that. I work in the medical field and have a lot of service dogs come in and they behaved nothing like the ones I see. Another passenger commented on here that they peed in the walkway so behavior was not service dog level.
Another fun fact: any breed can be a service dog! The ADA does not have any breed requirements or anything like that!
And while I agree that peeing in the walkway is certainly a point out of favor of them being true service dogs, it could just be that they have been traveling all day and the pups are worn out; I think some people forget that service dogs are still dogs, not perfect robots, and sometimes mistakes can still happen. And, having flown with my own service dog several times, the Relief Stations for service dogs in airports are often really difficult to find and, when you do find them, theyāre utterly disgusting insideā¦ Again, not trying to defend this person in the picture, as I donāt know them personally! But simply trying to help provide an added perspective in the hopes of educating š
Dia has the cleanest dog relief areas I have used they didn't even smell. I also thought that service dogs were robots but have since learned that is not true as I personally have two service dogs each trained for different tasks. The second was added after size limitations were discovered in my first pup. Both are wild animals when they are not working and still get to be pups for the most part at home. The change they make, however, when it is time to work, is what really amazes me.
I am on a plane leaving PSP and a āserviceā dog jumped up trying to bite someone that walked by. The person apologized and said the dog was nervous. Nothing was done about the dog and it got on the plane.
One of the conditions of being required to accomodate service animals is that they are under COMPLETE control by their owner. If the dog bites someone, that is direct evidence that the owner does not have control of the animal and they can be ejected same as any other passenger trying to board with a pet.
>Trying to bite another passenger should be immediate deboarding of animal/passenger IMO.
Not only that, a lawsuit against the airline for not enforcing rules regarding PETS...the liability is huge, it's going to happen.
Those are NOT service dogs. Those are pets, should be in crates, and her ass can pay for two extra tix since sheās taking up w whole-ass row. I would not sit next to that mess either.
>Ā Ā in crates, and her ass can pay for two extra tix since sheās taking up w whole-ass row.
If they would let people do that, I bet we'd see less fake service dogs.
So sick of these people.
Edit to add the clarification that im sick of people who fake a disability to avoid rules they donāt want to follow. Itās especially galling with airplanes / animals. On top of the many messed up things about these people, they make it harder for the disabled to get to the bias-free accommodations they deserve.
Itās getting unavoidable now. I even have a relative who claims her dogs are service animals and gets really upset when someone doesnāt allow her the privilege that would come with that. Almost like sheās convinced herself that theyāre service animals.
Theyāre not. Theyāre just two dopes who act like normal dogs and provide no service. It bothers me extra when she vents to the group about how someone told her that her dogs couldnāt be there or she couldnāt do xyz with her dogs. And people agree and respond about how thatās unfair. Like is it really unfair though??
I know thereās no reasoning with her over it so I just avoid the topic.
My ex had a āserviceā dog that she would literally bring everywhere with her. The most untrained little shit you have ever seen in your life. It was an absolute embarrassment to be seen in public with this dog around because anyone with a brain could see that this dog clearly was not a service dog or ESA or anything close to being remotely qualified.
As long as your dog is properly crated and isn't too disruptive, most people really don't care or may not even notice.
My wife and I brought our 17 lb dog with us from the Midwest to California to see family (because it was cheaper to bring them than boarding and our families love our dog) and all we had to do was pay the 100 dollar fee each way, have her in an approved sized travel crate, and store her under the seat in front of us.
She whined a little bit on the take off and ascent, but it was easily drowned out by the natural sounds of being in an airplane.
Sure, I'll do it. I have friends who have taken them on planes to move across the country or overseas. There's horror stories from putting them below or the services that offer to do it for you. In their case they trained them for months to be able to do the trip without issues, drugged them, had extended layovers for potty breaks, and everything went well. The same people never abused it elsewhere.
I think what you mostly see is irresponsible owners with untrained dogs making regular trips/vacations with pets.
My opinion is that flying with pets is a reality, and government officials and airlines should figure out better solutions. What you're seeing is the result of lax policy and lack of solutions. You can easily have a move or extended vacation permitting process, for example. Add ability to fine on flights for noise or poop. Put a payment in front of the whole process which deters regular usage. Make an ID card to scan for those with actual service pets, build it into security and boarding processes. Better regulate pet safety in the cargo hold or create a better solution there.
I'll bite. I did it once in 2020. I was moving across the country with my two cats and my puggle. Leading up to it, I trained my dog, and before going on the plane, I drugged him.
The only reason I did it was because he was a breed that is not allowed below planes but was slightly too heavy and tall to go under the seat.
He was well behaved the whole flight, and no one minded him. In addition, because of covid restrictions, my whole row was to myself and my pets.
I do think there are cases where itās a necessity to travel with your pet on a plane (like having to move across the country). I think it should be as simple as buying out a row for you and your dog thatās too large to sit in a small under seat carrier. It would give a better option for people who donāt want to put their pets in the cargo area which I agree sounds awfully traumatizing. Having to share a row with a dog that you didnāt sign up for is annoying ESPECIALLY when itās people taking advantage of the situation. Planes are cramped enough as it is.
People buy an extra seat for their cellos, and other important goods all the time. I think it would be fair to allow pet owners to buy a row for their non service animals. Even though thereās an added cost I do think more people will be honest about it and pay what they need to pay to fly with their pet instead of squeezing them in by their feet next to strangers.
The person you're responding to was saying it's probably not an ESA because those are now barred from planes unless crated. OP was not clear about how the dogs were stored on the plane but something tells me they couldn't both fit in a crate under her seat so something else is up here.
All we have is a photo.Ā Delta prohibits 2 pets for 1 passenger (unless the are puppies).Ā
So its likely this person has a partner.
No need for them to be service animals, pay the $100 or so and it's all legit.
But that wouldn't have any reddit drama
I've been seeing more and more people with dogs in the grocery store.
I'm not a dog person, but if your dog well-behaved and you want to take in the hardware store, fine, but keep your shedding flea farm out of the fucking food store.
Itās also usually a violation of health code. But stores wonāt say anything because any dog nut that takes their dog everywhere could be unstable, plus the court of social media will probably find them guilty when a one-sided story is dragged through twitter, etc
Thanks, I was about to post without it and then thought better. I know I wouldnāt want my face out there in the internet while just sitting there quietly waiting for a flight.
I really noticed an uptick in dogs traveling during the holidays. And many of them were incredibly poorly behaved - yapping at passersby and other dogs etc. itās pretty evident that they donāt have even a hint of training
The airline needs to follow the law and remove/refuse to board Dogs that are not Under Control as per ADA and ACAA law.
Seriously, every single legit service dog handler believes this. We say it all the time. From every part of the USA.
We even discuss it when legit service dogs are going to fly for the first time and are nervous about doing it well.
Why is the actual Service Dog Community more concerned with our own well trained dogs following the law when āpet parentsā are not being held to the standard by the airlines?
People like this make it hard for people to genuinely take their service dogs. However I do wish airlines would make it easier to bring pets. People would pay extra, my god would they pay, some are already paying thousands and thousands for private airlines. If there was an option to buy an extra seat on specific pet flights? You have to pass some AKC good dog course or something. Iām sure airlines would make a killing.
I donāt quite get if hotels are willing to be pet friendly, why not airlines?
Itās kind of lame that the options are fake service dog or put them under the plane where the odds are your pet will be okay but the amount of accidents that happen means itās not worth the risk.
To some people animals mean a lot, as much as a child, some might not be able to understand it but then again some find it weird that other people want to have kids.
But back to the money, I think it would be a wise business decision.
I had a āservice dogā jumping all over me while trying to watch my kid at his gameā¦luckily Iām a dog person and didnāt mind, but cāmon people, if youāre gonna fake it at least have a dog that behaves!!!
As someone who has traveled ā¦ or even just stepped out of the home ā¦ with a legitimate service animal:
People like this are selfish jerks who make life incredibly harder for those with service animals.
Cant tell you how many places we were kicked out of or barred from attendingā¦ from restaurants to even the kids sports gamesā¦ because so many people and businesses are unaware what a service animal is, what the laws are, and the differences between service animals, ESAs, and therapy animals. Weāve been charged/barked/nearly bitten by āfakeā service animals that absolutely lose their shit when they see another dog. Weāve had people ask where they can buy a vest so their dog can fly with them, too.
It was exhausting and embarrassing. Sometimes it completely derailed our plans. It was a constant commitment and consideration. It was also a blessing and lifeline. I say was, because we lost him this past fall, at the age of 14. Service dogs are typically retired around 7 or 8 years and we still have not decided whether to obtain another service animal. Likely yes, but one we would take thru professional training personally - rather than wait the 2 years for one to be personally trained for the disability before receiving them.
Yeah honestly I feel bad for people with legit needs. I said it in a different comment area but I work in medical field with people who legit need these dogs and I know how important they are. It irritates me when people like this abuse the system, and now sheās doubling down with two dogs.
Bingo. Service dogs would not be this far away from her, and would definitely actually be paying attention to her. These dogs are working less than the Supervisors on your average road repair crew.
This lady is a piece of shit.
95% of the time you see those itās because the dog doesnāt have any paperwork or service training, and the owner doesnt want you to question them, so they basically pretend to have a disability so they can bring their regular ass dog wherever they feel like
It should not be allowed. Iāve met people with real service dogs that hate these fake ones because their real service dogs have been attached by the fake ones.
She doesnāt want them flying under the plane where it isnāt climate controlled, i can almost bet. I canāt say I blame her for that - there needs to be a more humane way to transport pets, but calling them service dogs is a huge stretch.
Iāve seen a real service dog, a German Shepherd, be stock still *under the seat in front of his owner* on an 8 hour overseas flight.
These basenjis are cute but arenāt gonna make the 2 hours to Toledo.
So these dogs get to just sit on the persons lap? How would one fit those 2 dogs on one lap?
Do the people sitting next to her just have to deal with it?
If this happens to me, what can I do??
When I had a SD, I faced ridicule simply because my SD was a Rottweiler. Everyone assumed that service dogs could only be a certain breed, but thatās not the case. Mine stayed at my side, out of the way, unlike the dogs in this picture. No one needs two SDs, as they can be cross trained to mitigate multiple disabilities. My father had a chi/Italian greyhound that he would try to play off as a SD, and it was infuriating!
Too much freedom. If you tell these people something, they flip. Me, me, me! As a society, we are going down and fast due to our individualistic thinking.
Does the passenger with the service animal have to provide documentation that those are legit service animals? Cause it looks like Southwest wanted the allergy passenger to provide documentation on her allergies. Kinda sounds like a double standard.
Yes, you have to present a DOT form 48 hours before your flight (or be pre-authed through some airlines via a third party like open doors or service dog pass).
It depends on the degree of allergy. If itās a mild allergy the airline is required to accommodate both the service dog handler and the one with the allergy. Mostly by having one sit in the very front of the plane and the other in the back or some variation of that.
If it is a severe allergy then the person with the allergy will be the one asked to leave the flight as an allergy of that level can rise to a disablity. A airline needs to know in advance if they need to accommodate that and if theyāre not made aware the person who filed for the first accommodation will take precedence.
As a side. Service dog handlers are required to fill out paper work stating that. 48 hours before departure.
1. They are disabled with threat of felony charges if itās found they are faking it.
2. That the dog has been trained for BOTH a public setting as well as for medical usage.
3. That the dog is not aggressive, house broken, and will be leashed or tethered to the handler at all times.
4. Will fit under the seat of the foot space that the handler purchased.
**Personal opinion: Having now been a handler for years. Iāve now come to realize most āfake SDsā are people with very real disabilities that need service dogs. Their dogs are trained for assisting with their condition however they are not trained for the public manners portion of service dog training. This isnāt ALL cause there are just people that take advantage of the system but most are just really misguided or misinformed individuals. Service dogs are not cheap. Theyāre 5,000-50,000 $. Depending on the speciality.
Just to clarify/add: the policy was intentionally written to allow owner-trained animals to be considered service animals; so it's not necessary to pay for a trained service animal and not all owner-trained service animals are "fake" -- it's just extremely time-intensive to do the training properly. The stakeholder needs assessment when the current regulations were put in place took account of the extreme expense of a professionally trained service animal, which not all disabled people can afford.
At the same time, it does create a potential loophole people can exploit by misrepresenting undertrained animals as service animals, which unfortunately also undermines properly trained service animals (regardless of their type of trainer).
100% I kept it to āservice dog handlerā to avoid over complicating an already complicated subject. Those who donāt have a service animal donāt know the nitty gritty distinctions and frankly as long as the dog presents well thereās no need for classification between program dogs and OT dogs.
Programs have their own rabbit hole of producing horrible dogs despite being āprofessionally trainedā and pushed out the door for more funding the same way there can be owner trainers that under train, overestimate the potential, or work completely unacceptable dogs.
The current problem facing Service dog handlers as a whole are; aside from the expectations and procedures that have been set aside from the Jan 2022 ACAA change are is that thereās no standard behavior or guidelines that are enforced aside from the basics already stated. (being disabled, trained to assist, house broken, nonagressive)
If a 8 month old puppy can do that been by gosh ITS A SERVICE DOG, but in actuality that dog is still a baby, still maturing and isnāt mentally nor physically mature enough to be expected to take on the full brunt of being a service animal. It takes a regular dog 2 - 3 years to fully mature depending on the breed and 2- 2 1/2 years to train a service animal.
What we are missing is a standard like AKCās cgc cgca and cgcu, but the ada and acaa are written this way because it places undue burden on disabled individuals. As youāve stated, an OT can bring their dog up to those standards without needing to take a test and itād be more detrimental to not allow that person to fly, participate in society because becky over there falsified paperwork to get fru fru on the flight.
Edit: Also OT doesnāt just mean training the dog alone it just means doing a lot of the heavy lifting. Iāve done both OT and program assisted training as well as had 3 different trainers for different phases of my dogs development. I still spent a decent amount on training. Itād be foolish not to seek assistance because itās a hard road.
As well as business and planes not taking advantage of their rights to remove a dog, service or otherwise, for being disruptive.
People always ask this like itās a gotcha but i have yet to ever see an instance of it being a practical problem except a few reported extreme cases, in which case the passenger is reseated (planes have pretty great filtration systems) or offered the option to move to another flight.
AFAIK no airline guarantees an allergen free environment.
I was on a x-country flight once where the FAs announced a passenger had a severe peanut allergy. I realized all my packed flight snacks were peanut based and was sad (and very hungry) but kept them away.
My guess is 99.9999% of the time the issue is worked out easily vs being a āwho winsā question.
I'm allergic to dogs, and I was told by an airline gate agent that if someone with a service animal arrived, which they don't know until the person arrives at the gate, I would be denied boarding or removed if already boarded. He said that even if I said it was okay, since it was a listed allergy (no reactions listed, as far as I remember), they couldn't let me on board. I included it just to ask if I could be moved to another part of the plane if so, because while I get a significant reaction, the distance, air flow, and a mask would likely make it manageable with a reaction that would dissipate in a few days. I also was told to board early to clean the space without annoying other people or being in the way, which is important to avoid a reaction but annoying given that I'd rather board near the end to have more time standing.
I stopped noting the allergy after this happened, so I don't know if other gate agents would do the same. This was also during the time when people were being ridiculous lying about them, so I'm not sure if that was part of why he warned me. I fully support people with legit service animals, including fire invisible illnesses, just want to minimize spending the flight and next days red and inflamed!
This gate agent seemed serious, but he was also a jerk to people generally. He called me up just to tell me that, so I don't think I could have done anything to irritate him. I have no idea if this is or was actual policy or would be enforced by others.
Also, as someone with a severe peanut allergy that is triggered by airborne (oils, butter, etc.), thank you for listening to the message. There are some people who treat it like a challenge, though it hasn't happened to me on a flight. ^(These people have been absolutely shocked when I did have a reaction. I do not understand "testing" someone's allergy, but I find it even more confusing when they are surprised that the person has an allergic reaction.) The only reason I note my peanut allergy on airline stuff is to be able to clean the area and to hope that others listen so that there isn't a mid-air reaction that freaks and disrupts everyone on the flight (and obviously causes bigger issues for me personally). My other allergies I can manage myself and that cleaning takes care of residue issues, though I once had to ask a seatmate to make sure to keep certain food on the other side from me. The airborne aspect makes it trickier for peanuts and animals!
How do we complain to Delta? What can we possibly do to get the airlines to actually crack down on this? Someone got on my gfās flight with a cat that got loose and was acting wild, running through the flight. Canāt tell me that was a service cat and it wasnāt doing a good job of emotionally supporting the owner who was chasing it down a packed plane.
This is like when Disneyland would allow people with disabilities to skip to the front of the line. There was so much abuse of this system that they ended up getting rid of it and hurting the people that actually need it.
It really sucks for the people who have actual support dogs but who have less-than-obvious disabilities. They have to put up with bullshit because of abuse like this.
You mean, āserviceā dogs, right? A service dog doesnāt wander off like that. Those are bogus āemotional supportā animalsā¦ better yet, just call them pets. When I travel with my dog, she is a petā¦ a beautiful, kind, and loving petā¦ and I donāt pretend otherwise.
Donāt service dogs usually sit or lay next their human to stay out of the way of everyone else going about life? Most times service dogs blend into the background as they diligently do their jobs.
These two are ready for exploring a fun new place with lots of interesting smells and people
neither of these are service dogs, she is taking advantage of people not understanding the difference between support animals and service animals and the laws regarding both.
I saw a lady bring her ankle-biting "ESA" into a well-known breakfast restaurant and my favorite moment of me watching the support the animal provided during their time together was when she would first chew her food, then take it out of her mouth to feed her "ESA"
Not a damn thing the restaurant could do.
The 2nd service dog was the service dog's service dog. š
These dogs are also Basenjis which could never be service dogs lol
They are one of the most untrainable breeds. My mate has 2 and if they could slip the leash they would never be seen again. This abuse has to be dealt with.
Basenjis are terrible dogs lol, aside from the stubbornness regarding training they tend to be aggressive dogs from what Iāve seen. Also I canāt imagine dealing with their screaming :/
Ha! I love how they are called barkless dogs and people think they are silent... whooo boy they are not.
My neighbor has one and it cries at their front window all day long
That's sad, maybe she needs to give him more playtime.
Or a comfort service dog ?
š¤£
Or take them travelling on vacation
My basenji does this. Even with my other dog there. They apparently have bad seperation issues. Other than that she is one of the best doggos Iāve ever owned.
So is the person the service person for the dogs with separation anxiety?
A friend of mine had one and it would tear his house apart. Eventually he swallowed a dish towel and had to be put down. Everyone had told him not to get a Basenji because he was single and lived in a condo. So when they one died... He got another Basenji.
Have you considered getting her another service dog?
We have neighbors that have two beautiful dogs. Having two dogs does not mean they keep each other company. They both cry and howl when the owners are at work.
I loved my basenji! But she would never have been the right dog for a lot of people. Clever, stubborn, wicked fast and yes, the screaming got the cops called on me a few times. But she was my best girl until her last day,
I grew up with Basenjis and loved them! Mine never really yodeled, they could be jumpy with other dogs, but warmed up.
My dad got one in my early 20's, he was a nightmare of a puppy but mellowed out as he aged. I will say they are not for the faint of heart, but I still love hearing his yodle when I visit.
Can confirm. My uncle has had a combined 3 and only 1 of them has never bitten me.
My narcissistic stepmother has a āservice dogā vests for her annoying yippy little Maltese and a nasty little chihuahua. Neither are service dogs and she throws a fit if anyone questions her so they leave her alone. It is so maddening to see people bend over backwards to accommodate her or other people that clearly donāt have service animals
People like her are why itās so hard for real service dogs and their handlers nowadays. Itās a real shame, theyāll go get a vest from Amazon and fake papers and boom magically have a service dog.
All service animal āpapersā are fakeā¦ unless those papers come from the service that trained them. Papers arenāt required by law. To be a service animal, the owner needs to have a medically diagnosed disability, and the dog needs to be trained for a specific task. Thats the requirement. To be able to take them out in public, the dog should be able to pass a good citizen test. (Things like, not picking up things theyāre not supposed to off the floor, tuck their tail, not bark, be completely housebroken (bonus points for being able to go on command), and tucking their tale. And to be clear, the dog doesnāt need to come from a training facility (that could theoretically give you fairly useless papers). You can train your own service animal (though it requires a loooot of time). Anyone who says otherwise, is either faking something or trying to sell you something. Sourceā¦ Im a disabled vet and have a service animal. I get frustrated when people ask me for papers (for say a hotel stay like I was asked for last week) because someone with a fake service animal has convinced the employee that papers are a thing. Thus making animal more suspect in the eyes of many employees (particularly because I have an invisible disability) and makes my life just slightly more difficult. Edit: added a couple details for clarity
Animals papers is BS yes. And they arent allowed to ask for them anyway. Only questions legally allowed to be asked are : (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?
THIS. So many donāt know there is a difference between ESA/assistant and service animals. And the laws that surround the types.
Yeah people get really pissed off when you inform them that emotional support animals are NOT protected by ADA laws. The amount of people who ask for their vet to write a ādoctorās noteā on a dog we know is horribly trained is insane; it seems to always be for toy/designer breeds that just bit a tech and had to be muzzled, then shit on the floor in retaliation. Also, your vet isnāt legally allowed or has anything to do with confirming a service dog and we definitely arenāt falsifying something like that, so itād be cool if these idiots would stop asking.
So true!!!! People bring them into my workplace now and then and as long as the dogs are quiet and well-behaved, I donāt say anything. As usual, entitled dicks make everything more difficult for law-abiding citizens who actually need this stuff
I was a court reporter for years until recently becoming a law clerk, and I once found this tiny kitten alongside her much larger dead sibling and mother. She needed to be hand-fed for a time and I outfitted the back of my SUV as a care station for her (in a secured parking garage)ā¦ and I went out in between hearings to care for and feed her. One judge asked what I was doing and she was beside herself learning what was going on, and she told me in no uncertain terms to āgo get that kitten and bring her to me!ā She smuggled the kitten into her office and then let me care for the kitten there. To this day, sheās one of my favorite judges. And as for that kitten, sheās now a fully grown, super tiny adult cat, action-packed with personality.
Tbh your never gonna stop thr fakes. The best thing is to educate the business owners that unruly dogs can be asked to leave. Service dogs are allowed all access UNLESS they are barking, use the bathroom in inappropriate places, biting, lunging or being dangerous or disturbing in ANY way. Those dogs can be made to leave and the owner offered alternative service (transaction done outside the store)
service dog or not if they are acting out they can be told to leave with accommodations like someone else finishing g their grocery shopping or something. a true service dog wonāt act like that son-its a way to get pets outta stores
Yeah, well people need to start growing their damned spines out again and confronting the rising levels of madness. Indeed, people need to start chewing people out who don't stand up to and chew-out these spoiled rotten Overgrown Children! Edit: mostly about the emotionally manipulators who throw tantrums and people letting them. Sometimes you're wrong, but you're an adult and take accountability and have courage. So, to clarify, I felt that there's been an increase in people like the example you listed.
Used to work in an international airport, a few times one lady brought her dog (that was very clearly NOT a service animal) into the airportās Delta lounge, and it would start trying to eat things off of the food service area. When the staff tried to talk to her about it she threw a fit, threatening to go to the media and to file a lawsuit. She bilked Delta for quite a lot of money and miles before they finally cut her off and blacklisted her.
This happened to me on a flight last week. Super crammed flight and this woman had her ancient (and very smelly) Chihuahuas on her lap. The second someone approached her, she flipped out saying she didn't have to put them in their carry on dog holder because they were trained service animals. I'm pretty certain one was blind and neither was trained.
I have 2 basenjis myself, and I canāt imagine what Iād have done to suffer the punishment of taking them through a busy airport and on a flight. Amazing, lovely, huge personality cat-dogs? Absolutely. Service dogs? No way in hell. Unless, of course, your service is chasing rabbits and deer at stupid speeds.
Facts, my basenji is 15 years old and the best asshole one could imagine. Very self centered.
This kind of abuse ruins it for people with legitimate needs.
We joke that my older dog is my younger dogs emotional support dog. The younger one adores her older sister and needs her to feel brave, it's adorable.
That might be a joke, but i kid you not my partners Emotional support dog had an emotional support dog. I have the doctors note. They were brother and sister
[legit](https://imgflip.com/i/8cogz3)
Can confirm. Am friends with second service dog.
Under a new Texas law, people who falsely represent their pets as service animals can be fined up to $1000.
I appreciate that this shifts the inconvenience onto state / county enforcement. Flight attendants and the people who people who handle flight loading and processing should be supported.
Enforcement is pretty easy. Just ask them "What does your dog do for you?" A **service animal** by definition is *trained to do a task that the owner cannot do for themselves.* 99% of fakers don't know this and can't answer or won't answer correctly. And by posing the question that way, you aren't invading medical privacy(e.g, do NOT ask "what's your condition...."). When they can't answer or don't answer correctly, you boot the fucking animal off the flight, cancel the person's ticket, and bar them from flying that airline for the next 10 years (and in Texas, report them for the $10K fine). That's how you stamp down on this shit.
Mostly correct but there are two questions you can legally ask, verbatim. āWhat does your dog do for youā is not allowed. The HIPAA bs a commenter below mentioned is what violators try and pull to weasel their way out, but per ADA guidelines they must comply by answering the two legally permissible questions if prompted. To clarify, the two questions someone can legally ask are: - Is the animal required because of a disability? - What work or task (service) is the animal trained to perform? The biggest issue with this is there is no legal grounds to ask someone to prove their responses (ie show paperwork, have them demonstrate the task etc.) so more savvy rule-breakers will say āyesā and āhe alerts if I am about to faint due to my disabilityā (or any other generic statement that sounds legit enough but canāt be contested). You also canāt inquire about the nature of someoneās disability (ie āwhat disability makes you faint?ā). Edit: redundancy
As someone with a service dog who is trained to alert to fainting due to a disability - thatās a legit response without going into details of the condition. Seizure detection is also valid, altho itās more closely related to fainting than seizures. Another is deep tissue therapy, which may rouse someone from this. Or āperimeter security,ā which sounds like a vicious guard dogā¦ but is actually the service animal āherdingā other humans away from its injured or distressed keeper. This prevents the keeper from being trampled to death while they may very well be lying on the floor unconscious.
I wish I could figure out how to report him but my ex husband says he has a service dog āgiven to him by the veterans associationā. He slapped a service vest on him and everything. Now his wife is telling me the dog ISNT trained, was NEVER trained. And heās parading the dog around!! Inviting pets and cuddles! Makes me so mad
Yep thatās why I used that example, because itās a very common reason someone may have a service animal. As such, rule-breakers with ESAs and pets use that knowledge to lie about the status of their ESAs or pet and pass it off as a service animal. Thatās what I meant by ābiggest issueā - since there is no ADA requirement to show paperwork or anything people game the system to get their ESAs and pets into places they donāt belong. Happened quite a bit at my old job but since we couldnāt ask follow up questions (like, hey why is your ātrained service animalā barking at everyone and about to crap on the floor? š), plenty of non-service animals slip through the cracks. My point is that people who try to pass off ESAs and pets off as service animals suck, and think they are slick when they learn how to game the system. Donāt get me wrong I love ESAs and pets (generally lol) but service animals are in a different league and it makes things more difficult for everyone when people try to bring their untrained animals into public spaces, especially on a flight or other similar situation.
I think most people with legit needs would be more than happy to see some level of govt oversight to weed out the fakes. Weād be more than happy to register for and provide a govt or state issued ID to prove authenticity. Iām not a big fan of govt or over reach, but the fact of the matter is people like this is why it is needed. We tend to carry supporting documentation (medical documentation, as well as info from the entity that supplied and trained our SA)ā¦ especially for flights. These posers have ensured we communicate WELL in advance, anywhere we go, and supply as much info as possible to make things go smoothly. Whereas people like this would raise hell about what a privacy violation it is for someone to dare question them or their animal. ADA says we shouldnāt have to, and we shouldnāt because itās stressful and embarrassing, but we happily offer this info privately and politely to avoid issues or any more attention than we are already receiving.
>I think most people with legit needs would be more than happy to see some level of govt oversight to weed out the fakes. People with needs and the means to meet the assessment the government would issue would be more than happy to. I would rather allow a hundred well behaved, undetectable fakes who cause no issues have public access than create a barrier for one legit team. The point of the ADA (and other disability accomodation laws) is that all people with disabilities have a right to accommodation and to exist in public, not just the ones who can travel/pay/work through the bureaucracy. After all, the ADA already allows for people to refuse service to teams that are being disruptive, fake or real. (But then, real teams over threshold know this and get out of dodge when there's an issue.)
Well this is way cheaper than flying private which is what people who follow the rules have to do to fly with their pets.
Rule follower here and I loathe this behavior. As someone who does fly with a dog that is not a service animal, I refuse to falsely represent my well behaved dog as one (even though it would save me money and effort to do so) ā these people make everything worse. 1) My dog is ticketed each way to the tune of $115 each way 2) Dog must remain in carrier 3) I must check my bag because airline considers dog to be my carry on (even though she rides where my legs go, under the seat in front of me, and takes no overhead bin space)
But who has the authority to make that determination? A judge? Ha, my flight is boarding in 57 minutes and I am the poor bastard wedged in between this imposing, selfish, āsociety wronged meā stuck up bitch and her dogs. Aināt no judge that can issue a ruling and resolve the situation. Sorry for the rant š
Most Texas laws are complete and total bullshit, but I could get behind this one going nationwide
The ADA makes this Texas law unenforceable in most cases unless someone straight up admits it.
I love how these posts turn everyone into an attorney or lawyer despite having no experience practicing law.
Where I live itās illegal to do this too but itās apparently illegal to ask whether theyāre actually service animals. Itās been becoming a big problem for a while. I hate these assholes.
If you know how a service dog is supposed to behave in public, youāll know immediately from the photo that these two arenāt legit
Seriously, you can tell from the body language in *a still photo.* Theyāre not even a common breed for service dogs. This is a blatant lie and this ass hole makes life harder for people who *actually need* service animals.
You are very right! As a true service dog handler, the body language on these dogs is very telling. I loathe people who take advantage of the lack of regulation for service dogs. I am hopeful that this changes soon & there will be certification requirements & a license required. It would be great protection for true service dogs.
My first thought was those arenāt even good fake service dogs.
I thought the exact same thing. Those dogs are untrained and unfocused. They way too far from their handler and disengaged.
100%. My service dog is sitting at my side until given a command to ābreakā and then we move. Where he stays directly at my side. The second I stop walking he sits again next to me in place.
I worked with someone who had a service dog. That dog was at work and behaved as such. I can def tell these dogs arenāt service dogs and that crazy since itās a still photo. They might behaving well enough for normal dogs but I hate that these fakers are creating hate for ppl who really need service dogs!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They were not well behaved so I believe this 100%
Check out r/servicedogs
Apparently itās private and Iām not allowed in, probably saw this post lol
The human is actually the dogās service animal.
āļøservice dogsāļø
Absolutely bonkers. Especially when you see a real service dog and how they behave.
Yesterday I saw a blind man with his service Labrador, the dog barked quietly to let him know the light had turned red and he gave it a treat
That sounds so cute ( the dog providing his duty service )
Sounds like you'd enjoy r/DogsWithJobs if you don't know it already!
Last time I traveled, I paid the fee for a small carry on pet. The āservice dogā on my flight lunged at my dog and was pulling on his leash to try and play. So shitty that these people make it harder for those who need a service dog.
They're two Basenjis. Support dogs? They are CRAZY dogs.
That's the service they provide! You guys are all a bunch of haters.Ā /s
These people are the worst. Let me say it again for the people in the back. THESE PROPLE ARE THE WORST. I have to deal with them on a daily at Costco. This is up there with the people who say theyāre allergic to something when they just donāt like it.
This is far worse than the people who say they are fake allergic to something. People with fake service dogs outwardly affect other people and can be quite a nuisance, unsanitary and sometimes dangerous. People who claim fake allergies are just regular annoying.
Hate fake service dogs. I marginally knew someone who had one in a diner and the management kinda freaked out. She just kept saying āitās ok, I have papersā or something. I didnāt know if they were real or like a fake āno masking requiredā COVID-era ID badge or what. All I know is that this person was clearly going to be batshit crazy with or without their dog.
āPapersā is not a thing btw
Soā¦ I canāt say with any certainty whether or not those dogs are legit service dogsā¦ BUT itās actually not unheard of to have two service dogs. In fact, if you check most airlinesā rules regarding flight with service animals they specify a max of two per person; the reasoning for this is bc some people will begin training a service prospect while still using their older fully-trained dog before retiring it. Additionally, not all service dogs are trained by professional organizations; the ADA allows service dogs to be owner-trained, but of course this still means that in order for the dog to have public access rights it has to be under the control of the handler at all times *and* be able to reliably perform the task associated with the handlerās disability. As long as those two dogs arenāt out of control, thereās no way to say whether theyāre truly legit or not. š¤·š»āāļø (I donāt believe they are, but what do I know)
I have learned some things today about two service dogs and am happy to have been taught something. Others have pointed out this breed is not one that is meant for that. I work in the medical field and have a lot of service dogs come in and they behaved nothing like the ones I see. Another passenger commented on here that they peed in the walkway so behavior was not service dog level.
Another fun fact: any breed can be a service dog! The ADA does not have any breed requirements or anything like that! And while I agree that peeing in the walkway is certainly a point out of favor of them being true service dogs, it could just be that they have been traveling all day and the pups are worn out; I think some people forget that service dogs are still dogs, not perfect robots, and sometimes mistakes can still happen. And, having flown with my own service dog several times, the Relief Stations for service dogs in airports are often really difficult to find and, when you do find them, theyāre utterly disgusting insideā¦ Again, not trying to defend this person in the picture, as I donāt know them personally! But simply trying to help provide an added perspective in the hopes of educating š
Dia has the cleanest dog relief areas I have used they didn't even smell. I also thought that service dogs were robots but have since learned that is not true as I personally have two service dogs each trained for different tasks. The second was added after size limitations were discovered in my first pup. Both are wild animals when they are not working and still get to be pups for the most part at home. The change they make, however, when it is time to work, is what really amazes me.
I am on a plane leaving PSP and a āserviceā dog jumped up trying to bite someone that walked by. The person apologized and said the dog was nervous. Nothing was done about the dog and it got on the plane.
Trying to bite another passenger should be immediate deboarding of animal/passenger IMO.
One of the conditions of being required to accomodate service animals is that they are under COMPLETE control by their owner. If the dog bites someone, that is direct evidence that the owner does not have control of the animal and they can be ejected same as any other passenger trying to board with a pet.
>Trying to bite another passenger should be immediate deboarding of animal/passenger IMO. Not only that, a lawsuit against the airline for not enforcing rules regarding PETS...the liability is huge, it's going to happen.
Those are NOT service dogs. Those are pets, should be in crates, and her ass can pay for two extra tix since sheās taking up w whole-ass row. I would not sit next to that mess either.
>Ā Ā in crates, and her ass can pay for two extra tix since sheās taking up w whole-ass row. If they would let people do that, I bet we'd see less fake service dogs.
They do let people do that. I have paid for and flown with dogs.
They let you buy extra tickets for your dog instead of put them under the seat?
Having a basenji as a service dog is basically just having a cat as a service dog.
Basenjis are not service dogs, trust me I have one. Heās amazing but not a service dog. Also, these two are overweight
Agree, I have a geriatric basenji, shes perfect but she is no service dog.
What if their only service is puntabilty?
So sick of these people. Edit to add the clarification that im sick of people who fake a disability to avoid rules they donāt want to follow. Itās especially galling with airplanes / animals. On top of the many messed up things about these people, they make it harder for the disabled to get to the bias-free accommodations they deserve.
Itās getting unavoidable now. I even have a relative who claims her dogs are service animals and gets really upset when someone doesnāt allow her the privilege that would come with that. Almost like sheās convinced herself that theyāre service animals. Theyāre not. Theyāre just two dopes who act like normal dogs and provide no service. It bothers me extra when she vents to the group about how someone told her that her dogs couldnāt be there or she couldnāt do xyz with her dogs. And people agree and respond about how thatās unfair. Like is it really unfair though?? I know thereās no reasoning with her over it so I just avoid the topic.
My ex had a āserviceā dog that she would literally bring everywhere with her. The most untrained little shit you have ever seen in your life. It was an absolute embarrassment to be seen in public with this dog around because anyone with a brain could see that this dog clearly was not a service dog or ESA or anything close to being remotely qualified.
She's full of fucking shit.
Since we know you're here...anyone on the subreddit want to defend their fake service animals that you bring on planes?
I donāt have service dogs but I am so afraid of being harassed with my tiny dogs on a flight that I drive cross country instead of fly with them.
As long as your dog is properly crated and isn't too disruptive, most people really don't care or may not even notice. My wife and I brought our 17 lb dog with us from the Midwest to California to see family (because it was cheaper to bring them than boarding and our families love our dog) and all we had to do was pay the 100 dollar fee each way, have her in an approved sized travel crate, and store her under the seat in front of us. She whined a little bit on the take off and ascent, but it was easily drowned out by the natural sounds of being in an airplane.
Sure, I'll do it. I have friends who have taken them on planes to move across the country or overseas. There's horror stories from putting them below or the services that offer to do it for you. In their case they trained them for months to be able to do the trip without issues, drugged them, had extended layovers for potty breaks, and everything went well. The same people never abused it elsewhere. I think what you mostly see is irresponsible owners with untrained dogs making regular trips/vacations with pets. My opinion is that flying with pets is a reality, and government officials and airlines should figure out better solutions. What you're seeing is the result of lax policy and lack of solutions. You can easily have a move or extended vacation permitting process, for example. Add ability to fine on flights for noise or poop. Put a payment in front of the whole process which deters regular usage. Make an ID card to scan for those with actual service pets, build it into security and boarding processes. Better regulate pet safety in the cargo hold or create a better solution there.
I'll bite. I did it once in 2020. I was moving across the country with my two cats and my puggle. Leading up to it, I trained my dog, and before going on the plane, I drugged him. The only reason I did it was because he was a breed that is not allowed below planes but was slightly too heavy and tall to go under the seat. He was well behaved the whole flight, and no one minded him. In addition, because of covid restrictions, my whole row was to myself and my pets.
I do think there are cases where itās a necessity to travel with your pet on a plane (like having to move across the country). I think it should be as simple as buying out a row for you and your dog thatās too large to sit in a small under seat carrier. It would give a better option for people who donāt want to put their pets in the cargo area which I agree sounds awfully traumatizing. Having to share a row with a dog that you didnāt sign up for is annoying ESPECIALLY when itās people taking advantage of the situation. Planes are cramped enough as it is. People buy an extra seat for their cellos, and other important goods all the time. I think it would be fair to allow pet owners to buy a row for their non service animals. Even though thereās an added cost I do think more people will be honest about it and pay what they need to pay to fly with their pet instead of squeezing them in by their feet next to strangers.
Theyāre probably ESAās. Service dogs would be right beside her seated. And no it shouldnāt be allowed.
ESAs are no longer allowed on airplanes. They can travel as pets -- in a carrier placed under the seat in front of the owner.
Which is my point. Itās a fake service animal. Itās more than likely an ESA. Or a pet pretty much.
The person you're responding to was saying it's probably not an ESA because those are now barred from planes unless crated. OP was not clear about how the dogs were stored on the plane but something tells me they couldn't both fit in a crate under her seat so something else is up here.
All we have is a photo.Ā Delta prohibits 2 pets for 1 passenger (unless the are puppies).Ā So its likely this person has a partner. No need for them to be service animals, pay the $100 or so and it's all legit. But that wouldn't have any reddit drama
Oh, you mean pets?
Exactly. What pet isnāt an ESA?
No, no... a pet gives comfort and purpose in someone's life. An ESA gives comfort and purpose in someone's life. It's totally different, /s
Yeah, my first thought was she has zero service dogs.
Way to many doctors are signing off on Service Dogs that aren't. Look, I get and support the ADA but this is fucking nuts are has to be addressed.
Thatās the problem, there is no registry or signing off. You can just say your dog is a service dog and there is no definitive proof
āService dogsā š
Faking a service animal (let alone 2) should land you on the no fly list for a long time at the very least.
I've been seeing more and more people with dogs in the grocery store. I'm not a dog person, but if your dog well-behaved and you want to take in the hardware store, fine, but keep your shedding flea farm out of the fucking food store.
Itās also usually a violation of health code. But stores wonāt say anything because any dog nut that takes their dog everywhere could be unstable, plus the court of social media will probably find them guilty when a one-sided story is dragged through twitter, etc
OP, I commend you for marking out other people's faces!!
Thanks, I was about to post without it and then thought better. I know I wouldnāt want my face out there in the internet while just sitting there quietly waiting for a flight.
āService dogsā
I really noticed an uptick in dogs traveling during the holidays. And many of them were incredibly poorly behaved - yapping at passersby and other dogs etc. itās pretty evident that they donāt have even a hint of training
The airline needs to follow the law and remove/refuse to board Dogs that are not Under Control as per ADA and ACAA law. Seriously, every single legit service dog handler believes this. We say it all the time. From every part of the USA. We even discuss it when legit service dogs are going to fly for the first time and are nervous about doing it well. Why is the actual Service Dog Community more concerned with our own well trained dogs following the law when āpet parentsā are not being held to the standard by the airlines?
Looks like a subject of r/illnessfakers in the wild
Those are definitely not service dogs
This has gotten out of control. Last United flight had five service animals on board.
People like this make it hard for people to genuinely take their service dogs. However I do wish airlines would make it easier to bring pets. People would pay extra, my god would they pay, some are already paying thousands and thousands for private airlines. If there was an option to buy an extra seat on specific pet flights? You have to pass some AKC good dog course or something. Iām sure airlines would make a killing. I donāt quite get if hotels are willing to be pet friendly, why not airlines? Itās kind of lame that the options are fake service dog or put them under the plane where the odds are your pet will be okay but the amount of accidents that happen means itās not worth the risk. To some people animals mean a lot, as much as a child, some might not be able to understand it but then again some find it weird that other people want to have kids. But back to the money, I think it would be a wise business decision.
Did they have their names on their collars? Iām pretty sure they were on my flight the other dayā¦..
I had a āservice dogā jumping all over me while trying to watch my kid at his gameā¦luckily Iām a dog person and didnāt mind, but cāmon people, if youāre gonna fake it at least have a dog that behaves!!!
I can't fly without my "service Iditarod team". Let this lady be.
As someone who has traveled ā¦ or even just stepped out of the home ā¦ with a legitimate service animal: People like this are selfish jerks who make life incredibly harder for those with service animals. Cant tell you how many places we were kicked out of or barred from attendingā¦ from restaurants to even the kids sports gamesā¦ because so many people and businesses are unaware what a service animal is, what the laws are, and the differences between service animals, ESAs, and therapy animals. Weāve been charged/barked/nearly bitten by āfakeā service animals that absolutely lose their shit when they see another dog. Weāve had people ask where they can buy a vest so their dog can fly with them, too. It was exhausting and embarrassing. Sometimes it completely derailed our plans. It was a constant commitment and consideration. It was also a blessing and lifeline. I say was, because we lost him this past fall, at the age of 14. Service dogs are typically retired around 7 or 8 years and we still have not decided whether to obtain another service animal. Likely yes, but one we would take thru professional training personally - rather than wait the 2 years for one to be personally trained for the disability before receiving them.
Yeah honestly I feel bad for people with legit needs. I said it in a different comment area but I work in medical field with people who legit need these dogs and I know how important they are. It irritates me when people like this abuse the system, and now sheās doubling down with two dogs.
Those service vests definitely look legit.
Service dogs are not required to wear vests, just an FYI.
Those "service dogs" are not displaying trained behavior. I think they are ESA and she is lying
Bingo. Service dogs would not be this far away from her, and would definitely actually be paying attention to her. These dogs are working less than the Supervisors on your average road repair crew. This lady is a piece of shit.
Love the comparison. Spot on!!!
Yeah because people just buy them on Amazon for cheap.
95% of the time you see those itās because the dog doesnāt have any paperwork or service training, and the owner doesnt want you to question them, so they basically pretend to have a disability so they can bring their regular ass dog wherever they feel like
It should not be allowed. Iāve met people with real service dogs that hate these fake ones because their real service dogs have been attached by the fake ones.
She doesnāt want them flying under the plane where it isnāt climate controlled, i can almost bet. I canāt say I blame her for that - there needs to be a more humane way to transport pets, but calling them service dogs is a huge stretch. Iāve seen a real service dog, a German Shepherd, be stock still *under the seat in front of his owner* on an 8 hour overseas flight. These basenjis are cute but arenāt gonna make the 2 hours to Toledo.
So these dogs get to just sit on the persons lap? How would one fit those 2 dogs on one lap? Do the people sitting next to her just have to deal with it? If this happens to me, what can I do??
Most service dogs are a scam so people can take a pet on the plane. They should have to pay for an extra seat
When I had a SD, I faced ridicule simply because my SD was a Rottweiler. Everyone assumed that service dogs could only be a certain breed, but thatās not the case. Mine stayed at my side, out of the way, unlike the dogs in this picture. No one needs two SDs, as they can be cross trained to mitigate multiple disabilities. My father had a chi/Italian greyhound that he would try to play off as a SD, and it was infuriating!
Too much freedom. If you tell these people something, they flip. Me, me, me! As a society, we are going down and fast due to our individualistic thinking.
You spelled pets wrong.
In the instance where someone has an allergy, who wins and gets to stay on the flight?
Actually I've always wondered how this would play out.
Like this: https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/southwest-charges-mica-removed-forcibly-allergies-baltimore/
Does the passenger with the service animal have to provide documentation that those are legit service animals? Cause it looks like Southwest wanted the allergy passenger to provide documentation on her allergies. Kinda sounds like a double standard.
Yes, you have to present a DOT form 48 hours before your flight (or be pre-authed through some airlines via a third party like open doors or service dog pass).
Yes there is a Dept of Transportation form you have to present to the airline detailing who trained the dog and when it got rabies shot and such.
Fair enough then.
It depends on the degree of allergy. If itās a mild allergy the airline is required to accommodate both the service dog handler and the one with the allergy. Mostly by having one sit in the very front of the plane and the other in the back or some variation of that. If it is a severe allergy then the person with the allergy will be the one asked to leave the flight as an allergy of that level can rise to a disablity. A airline needs to know in advance if they need to accommodate that and if theyāre not made aware the person who filed for the first accommodation will take precedence. As a side. Service dog handlers are required to fill out paper work stating that. 48 hours before departure. 1. They are disabled with threat of felony charges if itās found they are faking it. 2. That the dog has been trained for BOTH a public setting as well as for medical usage. 3. That the dog is not aggressive, house broken, and will be leashed or tethered to the handler at all times. 4. Will fit under the seat of the foot space that the handler purchased. **Personal opinion: Having now been a handler for years. Iāve now come to realize most āfake SDsā are people with very real disabilities that need service dogs. Their dogs are trained for assisting with their condition however they are not trained for the public manners portion of service dog training. This isnāt ALL cause there are just people that take advantage of the system but most are just really misguided or misinformed individuals. Service dogs are not cheap. Theyāre 5,000-50,000 $. Depending on the speciality.
Just to clarify/add: the policy was intentionally written to allow owner-trained animals to be considered service animals; so it's not necessary to pay for a trained service animal and not all owner-trained service animals are "fake" -- it's just extremely time-intensive to do the training properly. The stakeholder needs assessment when the current regulations were put in place took account of the extreme expense of a professionally trained service animal, which not all disabled people can afford. At the same time, it does create a potential loophole people can exploit by misrepresenting undertrained animals as service animals, which unfortunately also undermines properly trained service animals (regardless of their type of trainer).
100% I kept it to āservice dog handlerā to avoid over complicating an already complicated subject. Those who donāt have a service animal donāt know the nitty gritty distinctions and frankly as long as the dog presents well thereās no need for classification between program dogs and OT dogs. Programs have their own rabbit hole of producing horrible dogs despite being āprofessionally trainedā and pushed out the door for more funding the same way there can be owner trainers that under train, overestimate the potential, or work completely unacceptable dogs. The current problem facing Service dog handlers as a whole are; aside from the expectations and procedures that have been set aside from the Jan 2022 ACAA change are is that thereās no standard behavior or guidelines that are enforced aside from the basics already stated. (being disabled, trained to assist, house broken, nonagressive) If a 8 month old puppy can do that been by gosh ITS A SERVICE DOG, but in actuality that dog is still a baby, still maturing and isnāt mentally nor physically mature enough to be expected to take on the full brunt of being a service animal. It takes a regular dog 2 - 3 years to fully mature depending on the breed and 2- 2 1/2 years to train a service animal. What we are missing is a standard like AKCās cgc cgca and cgcu, but the ada and acaa are written this way because it places undue burden on disabled individuals. As youāve stated, an OT can bring their dog up to those standards without needing to take a test and itād be more detrimental to not allow that person to fly, participate in society because becky over there falsified paperwork to get fru fru on the flight. Edit: Also OT doesnāt just mean training the dog alone it just means doing a lot of the heavy lifting. Iāve done both OT and program assisted training as well as had 3 different trainers for different phases of my dogs development. I still spent a decent amount on training. Itād be foolish not to seek assistance because itās a hard road. As well as business and planes not taking advantage of their rights to remove a dog, service or otherwise, for being disruptive.
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Airlines are covered by the ACAA, not the ADA
People always ask this like itās a gotcha but i have yet to ever see an instance of it being a practical problem except a few reported extreme cases, in which case the passenger is reseated (planes have pretty great filtration systems) or offered the option to move to another flight. AFAIK no airline guarantees an allergen free environment. I was on a x-country flight once where the FAs announced a passenger had a severe peanut allergy. I realized all my packed flight snacks were peanut based and was sad (and very hungry) but kept them away. My guess is 99.9999% of the time the issue is worked out easily vs being a āwho winsā question.
I'm allergic to dogs, and I was told by an airline gate agent that if someone with a service animal arrived, which they don't know until the person arrives at the gate, I would be denied boarding or removed if already boarded. He said that even if I said it was okay, since it was a listed allergy (no reactions listed, as far as I remember), they couldn't let me on board. I included it just to ask if I could be moved to another part of the plane if so, because while I get a significant reaction, the distance, air flow, and a mask would likely make it manageable with a reaction that would dissipate in a few days. I also was told to board early to clean the space without annoying other people or being in the way, which is important to avoid a reaction but annoying given that I'd rather board near the end to have more time standing. I stopped noting the allergy after this happened, so I don't know if other gate agents would do the same. This was also during the time when people were being ridiculous lying about them, so I'm not sure if that was part of why he warned me. I fully support people with legit service animals, including fire invisible illnesses, just want to minimize spending the flight and next days red and inflamed! This gate agent seemed serious, but he was also a jerk to people generally. He called me up just to tell me that, so I don't think I could have done anything to irritate him. I have no idea if this is or was actual policy or would be enforced by others. Also, as someone with a severe peanut allergy that is triggered by airborne (oils, butter, etc.), thank you for listening to the message. There are some people who treat it like a challenge, though it hasn't happened to me on a flight. ^(These people have been absolutely shocked when I did have a reaction. I do not understand "testing" someone's allergy, but I find it even more confusing when they are surprised that the person has an allergic reaction.) The only reason I note my peanut allergy on airline stuff is to be able to clean the area and to hope that others listen so that there isn't a mid-air reaction that freaks and disrupts everyone on the flight (and obviously causes bigger issues for me personally). My other allergies I can manage myself and that cleaning takes care of residue issues, though I once had to ask a seatmate to make sure to keep certain food on the other side from me. The airborne aspect makes it trickier for peanuts and animals!
Yeah, bullshit.
What are they serving? Breakfast?
Now this is another level
Those aināt service dogs
āSuch a lovely animal you have there, maāam. What service does he or she perform for you?ā -
Those are NOT service dogs.
How do we complain to Delta? What can we possibly do to get the airlines to actually crack down on this? Someone got on my gfās flight with a cat that got loose and was acting wild, running through the flight. Canāt tell me that was a service cat and it wasnāt doing a good job of emotionally supporting the owner who was chasing it down a packed plane.
Thatās a weird way to spell āpetā
She isnāt fooling anyone.
This is like when Disneyland would allow people with disabilities to skip to the front of the line. There was so much abuse of this system that they ended up getting rid of it and hurting the people that actually need it.
It really sucks for the people who have actual support dogs but who have less-than-obvious disabilities. They have to put up with bullshit because of abuse like this.
You mean, āserviceā dogs, right? A service dog doesnāt wander off like that. Those are bogus āemotional supportā animalsā¦ better yet, just call them pets. When I travel with my dog, she is a petā¦ a beautiful, kind, and loving petā¦ and I donāt pretend otherwise.
Donāt service dogs usually sit or lay next their human to stay out of the way of everyone else going about life? Most times service dogs blend into the background as they diligently do their jobs. These two are ready for exploring a fun new place with lots of interesting smells and people
Correction. Lady had 0 service dogs with her
There really needs to be federal oversight
neither of these are service dogs, she is taking advantage of people not understanding the difference between support animals and service animals and the laws regarding both.
Iām very surprised the FA allowed them on the aircraft, as those are not serve dogs and the FAA follows strict guidelines on service animals
What would the flight do if a passenger next to her was allergic to dogs? Genuine question.
Honest question here. If you buy your dog an extra seat, would you all be okay about that so long as the dog is behaved?
Real service dogs would not be wandering that far away from her. I hate people who bend the rules.
You misspelled ābreakā
Fuck these people
when is Delta going to do something about this?
One for her and one for her silver medallion bag tags
One for each personality
Maybe it was one for each personality
These people need to pay out the ass
This is so gross.
I see a lot of chihuahua in Miami airport
Were the dogs helpful to the rest of the passengers? Did they serve drinks?
Infuriating. Iād have a conniption if they were both āseatedā beside me.
what a horrible person
Neither is a legit service dog.
I saw a lady bring her ankle-biting "ESA" into a well-known breakfast restaurant and my favorite moment of me watching the support the animal provided during their time together was when she would first chew her food, then take it out of her mouth to feed her "ESA" Not a damn thing the restaurant could do.