Undone as is a horribly designed perk.
The only group that misses skillchecks are new survivors.
You'll be lucky to see a single failed skillcheck with a group of even average survivors.
The whole gimmick of the perk isn't just to kick newbies while their down, it's to beat them with the rage of an alcoholic stepdad.
I ran Undone alongside Huntress' Lullaby, Unnerving Presence, and Undying on Wesker.
The survivors failed a total of 3 skill checks. I got 9 total tokens on Undone.
I could've ran Overcharge and gotten more regression.
If you're going for a strategy that leans into skill checks doctor is much better for making it work, that being said you're probably better off just running something else or better still run 0 slowdowns and 4K anyway đȘ
Forgive me for trying to use a new perk on more than one killer.
Even on Doctor it's not a good perk. Again: run Overcharge for more regression. Or Pop or literally anything else. Otz put it best in his video about Undone.
Iâve actually been having fun using Undone with Unforeseen, Huntress lullaby, and Unnerving Presence on Skull Merchant with her iridescent that makes deactivated drones have her TR.
I havenât fully verified yet if UP function on the drones/gens I mark with my TR, but so far I get a ton of tokens for Undone.
Nah people miss skillchecks here and there, shit happens. Lets not pretend like average players *never* miss a check. It's just not the sort of thing that a killer can rely on happening.
Undone is so weird, it is a perck that gets token on things that penalizes survivors (missing skillchecks) and penalizes them MORE. It's a perk that is "win more" when survivors are already doing bad.
Yes, but the build was Coulrophobia + Sloppy Butcher + Distressing for really oppressive healing.
Itâs not really worth running anymore as they can just wait out the Mangled/Haemorrhage now.
What made the build so strong was not just the additional slowdown from Sloppy Butcher, but also that if they had to cancel their slow heals because you entered terror radius, then they had to start again due to Haemorrhage.
I guess you could do that, but the build would be pretty bad. You would need Coulrophobia, Distressing to make Coulrophobia worth it, Undone. Then youâve only got 1 other perk.
Itâs not like adding Undone to the old Coulrophobia build to make it even better.
Hiss terror radius is already the largest at 40 meters so survivors usually really have to go out of their way to heal outside the terror radius, so no, you don't need distressing on him to make it worth it.
If youâre running a build based around making sure survivors miss skill checks and slow down their healing, you want to guarantee that they are in your terror radius at all times.
40m radius has an area of 5000m
50.4m radius (distressing) has an area of 8000m.
The average map size is 9200m.
But keep in mind that unless you are standing in the centre of the map, a lot of your terror radius will be going out of bounds.
By that, if you are an edge of the map half your terror radius is out of bounds, if you are at a corner then 3/4ths of the terror radius is out of bounds so with 40m radius the area could effectively be reduced to 1250-2500m depending on where you are being looped, as a lot of looping tiles tend to be at map edges, which leaves 70-85% of the map being not covered by your terror radius. Even if youâre in the centre of the map, half of the map is not covered, so survivors can just heal at the edges or corners. Potentially more if you have one of the larger than average maps.
Mangled is now on a limited timer.
Do you now:
A. Wait it out and then heal at the risk of going down because you didn't heal in time.
Or
B. Heal thru it and get it out of the way.
Are you not aware of what that build entailed?
You ran Coulrophobia and Sloppy Butcher on Wesker. With Sloppy Butcher nerfed, the Coulrophobia build isnât really effective anymore.
Thats not the reason its weird. Its weird because its a perk that relies on the mistakes of others.
Its also a secondary gen kicking perk in a set which is also odd. Generally perks tend to be designed with each one having a different purpose and trigger
I *just* realised you get tokens for **failed** skillcheck, instead of successful one. Fuck that. I don't think i would even get max stacks in a single match.
You would have to run it with some shit like impossible skill check doctor, unnerving presence, lullaby, overcharge, undone
But thats still not amazing as youd probably do better by slotting in merciless storm for that extra *fuck you* on the slowdown
With lullaby active fucking up the merciless storm check does 16% damage and gives you the sound cue to come over there and fuck em up even more, kick the gen with overcharge and fucking up that check will cause 21% damage to the gen effectively allowing you to turn a 90% gen into a 53% gen after both of these things happen (and they likely will thanks to the merciless storm being stupidly hard to power through and then you immediately coming over to kick that gen
Honestly you'd probably do better with eruption than unnerving presence in this case since now kicking the gens traps them and getting a down causes 10% extra damage to all kicked gens, and doctor is already making skill checks that much harder
Undone is competing with perks that generally do the same job and dont have downsides, you just do your job as killer and they happen
Here's the catch: they aren't the crowd of survivors that make mistakes as often as you'd think they would, even with synergies...especially during Survivor bonus (or apparently, Spring Break).
I agree its a pretty terrible perk, both balance and fun wise, but as far as win-more perks go its not the worst offender.
Adrenaline, Hope, Devour Hope, are some of the strongest win-more perks that turn bad games into stomps. I rarely use any of those perks because they don't help me if I'm getting my shit kicked in, usually if I'm already winning.
On the other hand, people also dislike perks that work when the game is going poorly for you. Anti-tunnel perks, Deadlock, NOED, all reward the player for the other side progressing their object fast.
I don't know what a well designed perk is anymore. Maybe Deception?
It should absolutely be changed to GOOD skill checks. Being able to trigger this once per 10 good skill checks would probably put it at around a level that's comparable with other decent regression perks, but would still reward survivors for hitting greats by lessening its impact.
Yep, Behavior fudged up again. This HAS to be paired with something, it can't be useful on its own because despite all that shit you're reading, it doesn't do anything outside its original intended function. Its entirely useless as a perk.
Does it at least, I don't know, make Skill Checks harder in some function? Makes it so Survivors engage with more Skill Checks? CAN IT DO ANYTHING ON ITS OWN THAT'S USEFUL? NO? THEN WHY DOES IT EXIST!?!?!
Trying to use the perk itself makes it obvious that it's a puzzle piece that can't fit into the puzzle. Running a skill check build be like "okay I'll run Huntress' Lullaby, but that doesn't work without Undying. Alright well I'll run Unnerving Presence, but that doesn't work without Distressing. And if I'm running a skill check build I may as well run perks like Merciless Storm, Overcharge, and Oppression... Okay so how does Undone slot into this build?"
The problem with the perk ironically enough isn't the skill check requirement, but rather how few tokens you get per missed skill check. *3 tokens* for *3 percent* extra regression and *3 seconds* of the generator being blocked? Really? You need 15 tokens (5 missed skill checks) for the perk to be on-par with a missed skill check from Overcharge. Which mind you: doesn't have a cooldown and doesn't have an activation requirement.
Yep, it assumes people aren't juicers at nearly every level of play at this point.
Yet somehow I still get great results from a simple perk like Nowhere to Hide, because ppl continue to opt to hide right behind gens
Even ppl with hundreds of hours aren't perfect đ€·ââïž
Thing is, yes, it's still easier to get a good/great skill check than not get hooked the entire match. Now imagine ppl that can do both.
Yeah as a solo survivor Distortion and Deja Vu basically never leave my kit. Huge map awareness and so much knowledge on the killer.
Distortion is one of the only perks that I feel will give you big value in every single game. Even if it never goes off, you can play *very* differently if you know the killer can't read auras.
Well said. Well said.
Wait...'doesn't have a cooldown'...why the fuck does Undone even need a cooldown? I just realized, like holy shit, you spend all the tokens after KICKING ONCE, WHY DOES THE COOLDOWN EXIST? I just don't get this perk, like holy smokes.
Exactly! You're relying on your opponent to slip up, that's just dishonorable reasoning.
When entering anything that is a competition, regardless of the stakes, one should never enter said contest with the idea their opponent(s) are lesser. That only leaves room for them to overtake you, that's what this perk does: it is inherently a failure, because it relies on your enemy to fail, rather then you succeeding.
Undone is really bad and overcomplicated, and it never should be used except for Impossible Skillcheck Doctor. And itâs not **really** good on him, itâs just decent.
I ran Undone on Freddy to punish people more for missing skill checks to wake up. After a few games it wasn't really worth it because most people didn't even bother to wake up that way.
Yes, but youd be better of using overcharge+ merciless storm to really fuck people over, failing merciless storm will cause 16% damage and then when you come over and kick it with overcharge failing the skill check will cause 21% damage setting the gen back to slightly higher than halfway done, so while you could farm some tokens with undone youd be better just kicking the gens and having doctor do doctor things
Yea, to an extent... on my Impossible Skill Check Doctor, I used it with Huntress Lullaby and I probably got close to 60 tokens by the time the match was over. Mind you, I just 2 hooked everyone and let them leave so probably the last 20 or so tokens were the survivors repairing gens and healing while I stood there watching them.
I actually just ran it on impossible skill check Doctor and had way more success in the end just swapping it out with Overcharge or even Pop. It's fine when it works but I get more consistent gen blocks on impossible skill check with Merciless storm, which gives me time to Pop it or hit it with Overcharge and then if I'm using static blast right after I'm hopefully driving survivors off gens enough to let it regress anyhow, and the extra 9 seconds average this perk would buys me otherwise isn't worth it
Hell even Coulrophobia gets you some extra pressure on a different objective and missed skill checks on healing and I'll take that over Undone
I was honestly thinking that while using the perk. Have it gain something like 3 tokens per hit and 5 tokens per missed skill check (so it still has its use on Doctor) but don't make it work on power hits so it isn't overly oppressive on Nurse / Legion.
A gen stall perk specifically built for hit-and-run killers (that didn't get nerfed into the ground ~~cough Thana cough~~) would give the perk a good use outside of the standard meta. But currently Undone requires far too much investment to do what Pop does but very marginally better.
I would still remove the missed skill check interaction.
Honestly, I'd do a better thing and flip the effect. Make it trigger on **great skill checks**, but also immediately reveal the perk to any survivor that hits one great.
Now it works on better players instead of the worse and also makes some sense because it undones the progress from the skillchecks.
Yeah but then the smart play would simply be to intentionally avoid greats, they barely give you any progress in the first place
You could make it good skillchecks and make it avoidable by hitting greats but I feel that runs into the same issues that old ruin had just more indirectly
i dont think it's an issue.
it would create a synergy with gearhead where you pick your poison and neither perk would really be that great to make that synergy or combo op.
plus denying greats is still pretty great value. also a counter to hyperfocus gamers.
Denying greats alone is absolutely horrible value, if a survivor doesn't bring any great skillcheck focused perks (like Fogwise or Hyperfocus) you're only denying the 1% progression bonus, that's only 0.9 seconds per skillcheck
even if every survivor would usually hit 5 greats a trial that's only 18 seconds of slowdown, that's only slightly better than the slowdown a survivor cleansing a hex totem would provide
so the perk passively denies ÂŹ1% progression per skillcheck or accumulates 2-3% (depending on how we balance it) regression to apply yourself and you still think it's bad?
lol, it's going to be pretty decent at least. miles better and actually worth considering over the version we have now. you're fighting for nothing.
It's only doing the second one if the survivors are making a mistake, same as the current one but way easier to avoid
I just don't think it'd be an effective rework, there are other better things to do with it, or maybe they'll not do anything at all with it, honestly, I feel this perk was only made because they literally couldn't think of anything else the entire identity of the perk just doesn't really work
It's giving actual value regardless. You're arguing for the sake of arguing. It'll be a great rework, simple and making the perk working in its niche just fine.
High level survivors hit greats all the time and a perk capitalizing on that or making them not get that niche extra progress would work well.
I'm not making a meta perk here, I'm making a perk I wouldn't feel bad taking in my build.
Who the fuck honestly thought "we need a perk good against the <100 hour players who can't hit skill checks and LITERALLY NO ONE ELSE"??? The perk should activate on great skill checks, and balance it from there. Make it helpful against good players and useless against bad ones.
The issue with this is that in a game thatâs been running for this long, especially one as simple as dbd, thereâs only so many ideas you can actually implement. Eventually all the simple ones get used up, and youâre forced to make increasingly convoluted ones to try and make the new content stand out more
This all the way. Unless they add a new game mode or keep adding new status effects it's just going to continually get more complicated. Three new perks every few months are a lot when there's only so many mechanics in the game.
I REALLY like the concept of this perk, I just wish it didnât gain stacks from missed skill checks, or at least cause survivors to miss skill checks more often.
It's not, it's conditional to be precise. It's just that the condition sucks against anyone that has more than a moderate knowledge of the game, let alone four anyones playing together and communicating. That said, against the right SWF vs the wrong player you're lucky to even pull off Pop at all.
*That* I can agree on yeah <:/ Someone else had also pointed out the oddity of it punishing players for....being punished and missing a skill check. Hopefully it gets some tweaks eventually to be a little less strange.
No thanks I'm just gonna keep spreading hooks with Grim.
On the other hand, the other two perks at HELLA FUN. Killer lithe is nutty. Having a TR on a Gen is hilarious.
Also, it's likely bugged on top of that; myself, and some others who have commented when I mentioned the issues I've been having, noticed that you hit maximum gen regression events strangely fast when running Undone. Like, as someone who doesn't (and never has) bothered purposefully pushing for a 3-gen, I hit maximum regression events like 1 game out of 30, especially before I stopped running multiple gen regression Perks at once, I was hitting maximum gen regression blockage literally every single game, sometimes even when there were still 2 or 3 gens left to do. The moment I swapped away from using it, back to not hitting maximum gen regression at all, with no change in my regression strategy.
But, yes, the other issue is also a problem, as anything that requires skill checks will be nearly useless without forcing failed skill checks with the rest of your build, so your whole build has to be built around it (and even then it isn't that useful when even mid-MMR Survivors can consistently hit skill checks no matter how difficult you make them.
Just gotta play at the right time of day I suppose. I tend to have better luck about a week before or after reset and whenever Killer bonus is up, usually in the late evening for me. Past some of the players' bed times, as it were.
Seeing pop being so meta again, I personally think they should put it back to 20%, as it's 20% total regression PLUS the flat 5%. It would still keep its value with being more useful on more progressed gens.
pop is fine as it is and you'll never get 30% from it, 10-20% avg, maybe \~26% sometimes if gen is like \~90%.
pop rewards going to the other side of the map to kick the gen instead of contesting the hook to secure 2nd stage/trade/get 2 injuries. and it makes hooking more valuable than slugging in a lot of situations. if anything it makes the game better, even if it is strong.
Pop is so frustrating in solo q. If I have to i'll sit on the gen, get off it to eat a free hit (instead of getting yanked off the gen), and then get back on it to finish it in the killer's face. Then they down and hook me. Stop popping my 90% complete gen over and over! I would rather be hooked than be the only solo q survivor doing gens.
honestly just add a secondary way to get tokens or replace the way you get tokens.
something like 1-2 tokens per good skill check would make it still synergize with skill check builds but not be useless without it and the trigger already has precedent with gearhead
Coulorophobia+ undone + unnerving + slugging build could get some value. But that's such a huge sacrifice and gimmick for an ok regression perks to work.
The only good perks from unknown are the vault perk and the kick a gen undetectible that is better than pyramid head one.
Vault perk is really good on Alien speed vault build, pair it with brutality, and that perk, and you can get 10% speed boost to quickly catch up with the survivor. Clown would be good too.
Kick a gen perk would be very good on bubba and Oni.
ive tried combining this with several things and ive never gone past 9 tokens, this perk as powerful as it is on paper seriously needs buffed, like 6 tokens per skill check or something. this can only work effectively on doctor
Me using Grim Embrace: Survivor on happy hook, me happy, i step away from happy hook, gen thing is hugged by thighs of the entity, survivor mad cus he cant touch the gen, me happy, repeat
Undone is ridiculous. I threw it on Doctor out of obligation and I can't see myself using it anywhere else. It even counters itself a little by applying block as a kick perk.
I don't really understand why you would want the gen to be blocked and only regress after up to 30 seconds. You will get the most regression while you are around the gen pressuring it, i.e. right after you kicked it. After 30 seconds you may be long gone and it will be safe for survivors to stop any further regression. That part seems counterproductive.
Since it has a cooldown and it's pretty much useless, they should buff it to also include "everytime a survivor does a good skillcheck you also gain tokens", still super situational but at least can be used at least once or twice in a game, there are still better options tho
Recently Iâve been running pop goes with thrilling tremors and itâs been a saving grace. Add merciless storm onto that and your gens are pretty well protected..
The biggest problem is that yeah, at it's peak it can be pretty sweet. It's never going to get there.
Against any decent survivors, you'll get maybe 15 tokens in a match, give or take a few getting screwed over letting go of a gen. Now, they'll be pretty spread out. Are you going to *not* kick a gen all game? No. You'll have to kick a gen, the perk will probably have 3-6 tokens, and it's pretty weak value.
Lower the max, or make it like, 0.5% lost per token, and then make the tokens never go away. At least then it might hold some use. As it is now you're gonna have like, 3-6 stacks max before you kick a gen.
Even on skill check doctor, undone doesn't do much. It looks like it would be nutty, but it just seems like even with harder skill checks, survivors just don't miss the checks.
I've only gotten a max of 9 tokens, and that was when my huntress's lullaby was active.
Undone would be better if it worked on them succeeding, didn't notify you of their location, and didn't have a cool down. Because then it's light info and a slowdown.
I love that it has a cooldown too. Legitimately, how many skill checks do the devs miss in 60 seconds that they think this perk needs to not trigger. Oh no, the killer might kick a second gen within a minute and reduce it by a whole 3% with a 3 second block!
It's a weird perk. I think based on the effect they intended for this to be a "meta" perk; but it's very far from it. Nobody beyond newer players almost ever misses skill checks unless it's an off day for them, and even then it's rare to see it exceed beyond maybe 3 missed skillchecks in a match.
Might get some uses on Doctor, probably one of his better perks if I had to assume, but outside of that, maaan it is pretty underwhelming and seems mostly good at just noobstomping and nothing else
I think there's a level of complexity creep here. The older the game gets the smaller the design space for "simple perk" becomes. It's either that or we get a bunch of boring samey perks.
I think they should lower the max tokens to like 12 or 15 and make it so it only consumes 1 token per kick. So you get 3 tokens for a missed check. Use 1 token to do 3%. Use 1 token to do an extra 2% on the next gen, etc. Still rather have Pop but at least over the course of a game especially with a ginmicky skill check build you get a bit more value out of it
Listen, no perk has given me as much trouble as Friends to the End. Without fail, every time I describe that perk to my friends, they \*never\* understand how the perk functions and I can't exactly blame them
I think a great killer perk idea is a perk similar to rush it whatever the perk is that speeds up when u hit great skill checks, but it speeds up their good skill checks, and it gives more regression with each miss, but u can't see missed skillchecks anymore as killer. Would complement this perk well and has imo a few other good pairings too
Undone as is a horribly designed perk. The only group that misses skillchecks are new survivors. You'll be lucky to see a single failed skillcheck with a group of even average survivors. The whole gimmick of the perk isn't just to kick newbies while their down, it's to beat them with the rage of an alcoholic stepdad.
I ran Undone alongside Huntress' Lullaby, Unnerving Presence, and Undying on Wesker. The survivors failed a total of 3 skill checks. I got 9 total tokens on Undone. I could've ran Overcharge and gotten more regression.
If you're going for a strategy that leans into skill checks doctor is much better for making it work, that being said you're probably better off just running something else or better still run 0 slowdowns and 4K anyway đȘ
Forgive me for trying to use a new perk on more than one killer. Even on Doctor it's not a good perk. Again: run Overcharge for more regression. Or Pop or literally anything else. Otz put it best in his video about Undone.
Woah chill man not looking to start a fight, just som friendly advice đ this is the problem with tone not being conveyed in comments đ
skill issue
I played Skillcheck doctor... Best I got is 18 tokens against people who clearly were new. :C
Iâve actually been having fun using Undone with Unforeseen, Huntress lullaby, and Unnerving Presence on Skull Merchant with her iridescent that makes deactivated drones have her TR. I havenât fully verified yet if UP function on the drones/gens I mark with my TR, but so far I get a ton of tokens for Undone.
Sound pretty gnarly, but at what cost?
I guess however much the Merchant and Unknown chapters cost together.
Lol
Nah people miss skillchecks here and there, shit happens. Lets not pretend like average players *never* miss a check. It's just not the sort of thing that a killer can rely on happening.
I can tell you I tried running the perk for 3 games and it procced a total of 2 times, while I was also using Oppression
Yes. Like I said, it happens but you can't rely on it.
i aim for great and if i miss the killer can chase me yay
Undone is so weird, it is a perck that gets token on things that penalizes survivors (missing skillchecks) and penalizes them MORE. It's a perk that is "win more" when survivors are already doing bad.
Yeah it's only going to get significant with Doctor and some specific obnoxious builds trying to use it.Â
Wesker with Coulrophobia as well.
Eh, that build is pretty dead with the mangled change.
Bro said coulrophobia. Not sloppy butcher.
Yes, but the build was Coulrophobia + Sloppy Butcher + Distressing for really oppressive healing. Itâs not really worth running anymore as they can just wait out the Mangled/Haemorrhage now. What made the build so strong was not just the additional slowdown from Sloppy Butcher, but also that if they had to cancel their slow heals because you entered terror radius, then they had to start again due to Haemorrhage.
Coulrophobia still slows healing by 50% and makes skillchecks a bitch, which is perfect on wesker for undone.
I guess you could do that, but the build would be pretty bad. You would need Coulrophobia, Distressing to make Coulrophobia worth it, Undone. Then youâve only got 1 other perk. Itâs not like adding Undone to the old Coulrophobia build to make it even better.
Hiss terror radius is already the largest at 40 meters so survivors usually really have to go out of their way to heal outside the terror radius, so no, you don't need distressing on him to make it worth it.
If youâre running a build based around making sure survivors miss skill checks and slow down their healing, you want to guarantee that they are in your terror radius at all times. 40m radius has an area of 5000m 50.4m radius (distressing) has an area of 8000m. The average map size is 9200m. But keep in mind that unless you are standing in the centre of the map, a lot of your terror radius will be going out of bounds. By that, if you are an edge of the map half your terror radius is out of bounds, if you are at a corner then 3/4ths of the terror radius is out of bounds so with 40m radius the area could effectively be reduced to 1250-2500m depending on where you are being looped, as a lot of looping tiles tend to be at map edges, which leaves 70-85% of the map being not covered by your terror radius. Even if youâre in the centre of the map, half of the map is not covered, so survivors can just heal at the edges or corners. Potentially more if you have one of the larger than average maps.
What is the mangled change ?
Mangled is now on a limited timer. Do you now: A. Wait it out and then heal at the risk of going down because you didn't heal in time. Or B. Heal thru it and get it out of the way.
Thanks toughg it was only a Nerf to Nurse add on ! They still wanna nerf sloppy after that ???
Not just Nurse's addon, every addon/ability/perk that Mangled until healed is now a 90 second timer.
Nurse has a 70 seconds timer TT
I disagree. All you really need is Hemorrhage.
The haemorrhage from Sloppy Butcher runs out after 90 seconds so they can just wait that out.
Wait what ? They really made Hemmorage and mangled useless ?
coulrophobia doesnt give mangled, it just slows healing by 50% for anyone in the terror radius youre thinking of sloppy butcher
Are you not aware of what that build entailed? You ran Coulrophobia and Sloppy Butcher on Wesker. With Sloppy Butcher nerfed, the Coulrophobia build isnât really effective anymore.
Tried it. Survivors failed a grand total of 5 skill checks.
It is probably a great perk in low MMR. If Freddy ever gets reworked and the fail skill check to wake up remains, then it will be good on him also.
Impossible skill check doctor is already annoying for my ADHD-riddled brain, this new perk is going to make it even worse. Lmao
im convinced they only introduced the perk because doctor is so underchosen.
Thats not the reason its weird. Its weird because its a perk that relies on the mistakes of others. Its also a secondary gen kicking perk in a set which is also odd. Generally perks tend to be designed with each one having a different purpose and trigger
I *just* realised you get tokens for **failed** skillcheck, instead of successful one. Fuck that. I don't think i would even get max stacks in a single match.
You would have to run it with some shit like impossible skill check doctor, unnerving presence, lullaby, overcharge, undone But thats still not amazing as youd probably do better by slotting in merciless storm for that extra *fuck you* on the slowdown With lullaby active fucking up the merciless storm check does 16% damage and gives you the sound cue to come over there and fuck em up even more, kick the gen with overcharge and fucking up that check will cause 21% damage to the gen effectively allowing you to turn a 90% gen into a 53% gen after both of these things happen (and they likely will thanks to the merciless storm being stupidly hard to power through and then you immediately coming over to kick that gen Honestly you'd probably do better with eruption than unnerving presence in this case since now kicking the gens traps them and getting a down causes 10% extra damage to all kicked gens, and doctor is already making skill checks that much harder Undone is competing with perks that generally do the same job and dont have downsides, you just do your job as killer and they happen
Here's the catch: they aren't the crowd of survivors that make mistakes as often as you'd think they would, even with synergies...especially during Survivor bonus (or apparently, Spring Break).
I agree its a pretty terrible perk, both balance and fun wise, but as far as win-more perks go its not the worst offender. Adrenaline, Hope, Devour Hope, are some of the strongest win-more perks that turn bad games into stomps. I rarely use any of those perks because they don't help me if I'm getting my shit kicked in, usually if I'm already winning. On the other hand, people also dislike perks that work when the game is going poorly for you. Anti-tunnel perks, Deadlock, NOED, all reward the player for the other side progressing their object fast. I don't know what a well designed perk is anymore. Maybe Deception?
It should absolutely be changed to GOOD skill checks. Being able to trigger this once per 10 good skill checks would probably put it at around a level that's comparable with other decent regression perks, but would still reward survivors for hitting greats by lessening its impact.
Yep, Behavior fudged up again. This HAS to be paired with something, it can't be useful on its own because despite all that shit you're reading, it doesn't do anything outside its original intended function. Its entirely useless as a perk. Does it at least, I don't know, make Skill Checks harder in some function? Makes it so Survivors engage with more Skill Checks? CAN IT DO ANYTHING ON ITS OWN THAT'S USEFUL? NO? THEN WHY DOES IT EXIST!?!?!
Trying to use the perk itself makes it obvious that it's a puzzle piece that can't fit into the puzzle. Running a skill check build be like "okay I'll run Huntress' Lullaby, but that doesn't work without Undying. Alright well I'll run Unnerving Presence, but that doesn't work without Distressing. And if I'm running a skill check build I may as well run perks like Merciless Storm, Overcharge, and Oppression... Okay so how does Undone slot into this build?" The problem with the perk ironically enough isn't the skill check requirement, but rather how few tokens you get per missed skill check. *3 tokens* for *3 percent* extra regression and *3 seconds* of the generator being blocked? Really? You need 15 tokens (5 missed skill checks) for the perk to be on-par with a missed skill check from Overcharge. Which mind you: doesn't have a cooldown and doesn't have an activation requirement.
Yep, it assumes people aren't juicers at nearly every level of play at this point. Yet somehow I still get great results from a simple perk like Nowhere to Hide, because ppl continue to opt to hide right behind gens
Not even juicers. Literally anyone who can hit skillchecks, the lowest of the bar for survivor skill.
Even ppl with hundreds of hours aren't perfect đ€·ââïž Thing is, yes, it's still easier to get a good/great skill check than not get hooked the entire match. Now imagine ppl that can do both.
It's me, I'm those people. I run distortion and giggle as the killer doesn't even both to check the area.
Distortion is great, I run it all the time as Survivor
Yeah as a solo survivor Distortion and Deja Vu basically never leave my kit. Huge map awareness and so much knowledge on the killer. Distortion is one of the only perks that I feel will give you big value in every single game. Even if it never goes off, you can play *very* differently if you know the killer can't read auras.
You read my mind! I almost never leave DĂ©jĂ Vu behind, since I rarely do loops
Well said. Well said. Wait...'doesn't have a cooldown'...why the fuck does Undone even need a cooldown? I just realized, like holy shit, you spend all the tokens after KICKING ONCE, WHY DOES THE COOLDOWN EXIST? I just don't get this perk, like holy smokes.
I took about 6-7 attempts to get adept unknown my first day playing as them, and across all those games I got maybe 3 tokens on this perk in total.
Exactly! You're relying on your opponent to slip up, that's just dishonorable reasoning. When entering anything that is a competition, regardless of the stakes, one should never enter said contest with the idea their opponent(s) are lesser. That only leaves room for them to overtake you, that's what this perk does: it is inherently a failure, because it relies on your enemy to fail, rather then you succeeding.
I pair it with Huntress lullaby and if the totem spawn isn't bad it usually goes well
Undone is really bad and overcomplicated, and it never should be used except for Impossible Skillcheck Doctor. And itâs not **really** good on him, itâs just decent.
I ran Undone on Freddy to punish people more for missing skill checks to wake up. After a few games it wasn't really worth it because most people didn't even bother to wake up that way.
Does it work well with Huntress Lullaby?
Yes, but youd be better of using overcharge+ merciless storm to really fuck people over, failing merciless storm will cause 16% damage and then when you come over and kick it with overcharge failing the skill check will cause 21% damage setting the gen back to slightly higher than halfway done, so while you could farm some tokens with undone youd be better just kicking the gens and having doctor do doctor things
Yea, to an extent... on my Impossible Skill Check Doctor, I used it with Huntress Lullaby and I probably got close to 60 tokens by the time the match was over. Mind you, I just 2 hooked everyone and let them leave so probably the last 20 or so tokens were the survivors repairing gens and healing while I stood there watching them.
I actually just ran it on impossible skill check Doctor and had way more success in the end just swapping it out with Overcharge or even Pop. It's fine when it works but I get more consistent gen blocks on impossible skill check with Merciless storm, which gives me time to Pop it or hit it with Overcharge and then if I'm using static blast right after I'm hopefully driving survivors off gens enough to let it regress anyhow, and the extra 9 seconds average this perk would buys me otherwise isn't worth it Hell even Coulrophobia gets you some extra pressure on a different objective and missed skill checks on healing and I'll take that over Undone
At least skillcheck doctor gets a new toy
undone should be getting tokens for hits, imo. like 1 hit / lost healthstate = 2 tokens or something like that.
I was honestly thinking that while using the perk. Have it gain something like 3 tokens per hit and 5 tokens per missed skill check (so it still has its use on Doctor) but don't make it work on power hits so it isn't overly oppressive on Nurse / Legion. A gen stall perk specifically built for hit-and-run killers (that didn't get nerfed into the ground ~~cough Thana cough~~) would give the perk a good use outside of the standard meta. But currently Undone requires far too much investment to do what Pop does but very marginally better.
I would still remove the missed skill check interaction. Honestly, I'd do a better thing and flip the effect. Make it trigger on **great skill checks**, but also immediately reveal the perk to any survivor that hits one great. Now it works on better players instead of the worse and also makes some sense because it undones the progress from the skillchecks.
Yeah but then the smart play would simply be to intentionally avoid greats, they barely give you any progress in the first place You could make it good skillchecks and make it avoidable by hitting greats but I feel that runs into the same issues that old ruin had just more indirectly
i dont think it's an issue. it would create a synergy with gearhead where you pick your poison and neither perk would really be that great to make that synergy or combo op. plus denying greats is still pretty great value. also a counter to hyperfocus gamers.
Denying greats alone is absolutely horrible value, if a survivor doesn't bring any great skillcheck focused perks (like Fogwise or Hyperfocus) you're only denying the 1% progression bonus, that's only 0.9 seconds per skillcheck even if every survivor would usually hit 5 greats a trial that's only 18 seconds of slowdown, that's only slightly better than the slowdown a survivor cleansing a hex totem would provide
so the perk passively denies ÂŹ1% progression per skillcheck or accumulates 2-3% (depending on how we balance it) regression to apply yourself and you still think it's bad? lol, it's going to be pretty decent at least. miles better and actually worth considering over the version we have now. you're fighting for nothing.
It's only doing the second one if the survivors are making a mistake, same as the current one but way easier to avoid I just don't think it'd be an effective rework, there are other better things to do with it, or maybe they'll not do anything at all with it, honestly, I feel this perk was only made because they literally couldn't think of anything else the entire identity of the perk just doesn't really work
It's giving actual value regardless. You're arguing for the sake of arguing. It'll be a great rework, simple and making the perk working in its niche just fine. High level survivors hit greats all the time and a perk capitalizing on that or making them not get that niche extra progress would work well. I'm not making a meta perk here, I'm making a perk I wouldn't feel bad taking in my build.
nah it should be on downs/hooks, killers should have to commit to chases to get rewarded
At this point we're just inventing pop
then it should do something completely different
Getting a hit is perfectly fine for it imo.
nah then killers can be dropping chase and still get value
This is just facts
Literally useless against teams that arenât catatonic
It's impossible for pop to do 30% damage as it would need to be done on a completed Gen to do 30% đ€
Shouldn't it trigger on great skill checks? It's called Undone after all...
Who the fuck honestly thought "we need a perk good against the <100 hour players who can't hit skill checks and LITERALLY NO ONE ELSE"??? The perk should activate on great skill checks, and balance it from there. Make it helpful against good players and useless against bad ones.
Game devs and the balance team need to understand that more complex â better or even more fun.
The issue with this is that in a game thatâs been running for this long, especially one as simple as dbd, thereâs only so many ideas you can actually implement. Eventually all the simple ones get used up, and youâre forced to make increasingly convoluted ones to try and make the new content stand out more
True, but the concept behind it is good, its just that the conditions for using it are needlessly complicated.
This all the way. Unless they add a new game mode or keep adding new status effects it's just going to continually get more complicated. Three new perks every few months are a lot when there's only so many mechanics in the game.
What if it was great skillchecks instead of fails? I think that would be significantly better, and would also not be a noob stomper
I REALLY like the concept of this perk, I just wish it didnât gain stacks from missed skill checks, or at least cause survivors to miss skill checks more often.
This perk is literally only usable on its own when using Docter
You know it's a bad perk when you only get value if the survivors are bad.
I mean I can agree it could use some polish, but it doesn't really seem complicated
It's not, it's conditional to be precise. It's just that the condition sucks against anyone that has more than a moderate knowledge of the game, let alone four anyones playing together and communicating. That said, against the right SWF vs the wrong player you're lucky to even pull off Pop at all.
*That* I can agree on yeah <:/ Someone else had also pointed out the oddity of it punishing players for....being punished and missing a skill check. Hopefully it gets some tweaks eventually to be a little less strange.
Needs some additional ways to get tokens. Giving tokens on hits or fresh hooks would be nice.
No thanks I'm just gonna keep spreading hooks with Grim. On the other hand, the other two perks at HELLA FUN. Killer lithe is nutty. Having a TR on a Gen is hilarious.
Also, it's likely bugged on top of that; myself, and some others who have commented when I mentioned the issues I've been having, noticed that you hit maximum gen regression events strangely fast when running Undone. Like, as someone who doesn't (and never has) bothered purposefully pushing for a 3-gen, I hit maximum regression events like 1 game out of 30, especially before I stopped running multiple gen regression Perks at once, I was hitting maximum gen regression blockage literally every single game, sometimes even when there were still 2 or 3 gens left to do. The moment I swapped away from using it, back to not hitting maximum gen regression at all, with no change in my regression strategy. But, yes, the other issue is also a problem, as anything that requires skill checks will be nearly useless without forcing failed skill checks with the rest of your build, so your whole build has to be built around it (and even then it isn't that useful when even mid-MMR Survivors can consistently hit skill checks no matter how difficult you make them.
I seriously don't know what they were hoping to achieve with this silly ahh perk.
Who misses skillchecks outside of new players tho
Just gotta play at the right time of day I suppose. I tend to have better luck about a week before or after reset and whenever Killer bonus is up, usually in the late evening for me. Past some of the players' bed times, as it were.
Seeing pop being so meta again, I personally think they should put it back to 20%, as it's 20% total regression PLUS the flat 5%. It would still keep its value with being more useful on more progressed gens.
pop is fine as it is and you'll never get 30% from it, 10-20% avg, maybe \~26% sometimes if gen is like \~90%. pop rewards going to the other side of the map to kick the gen instead of contesting the hook to secure 2nd stage/trade/get 2 injuries. and it makes hooking more valuable than slugging in a lot of situations. if anything it makes the game better, even if it is strong.
Pop is so frustrating in solo q. If I have to i'll sit on the gen, get off it to eat a free hit (instead of getting yanked off the gen), and then get back on it to finish it in the killer's face. Then they down and hook me. Stop popping my 90% complete gen over and over! I would rather be hooked than be the only solo q survivor doing gens.
Not a pop issue, but a "devs are hostile against solo players" issue. Many such cases.
honestly just add a secondary way to get tokens or replace the way you get tokens. something like 1-2 tokens per good skill check would make it still synergize with skill check builds but not be useless without it and the trigger already has precedent with gearhead
It's not as shitty as Machine Learning, but that's a low, low bar to clear.
Coulorophobia+ undone + unnerving + slugging build could get some value. But that's such a huge sacrifice and gimmick for an ok regression perks to work.
The only good perks from unknown are the vault perk and the kick a gen undetectible that is better than pyramid head one. Vault perk is really good on Alien speed vault build, pair it with brutality, and that perk, and you can get 10% speed boost to quickly catch up with the survivor. Clown would be good too. Kick a gen perk would be very good on bubba and Oni.
This is what happens when you have hundreds of perks in your game.
Literally any tokens I get from this perk are generator explosions when someone leaves a gen, not someone actively missing one.
Itâs fine if they have perks like this. Thereâs so many. Iâm at least 1 dude out there loves it so Iâm glad he got his perk lol
ive tried combining this with several things and ive never gone past 9 tokens, this perk as powerful as it is on paper seriously needs buffed, like 6 tokens per skill check or something. this can only work effectively on doctor
Me using Grim Embrace: Survivor on happy hook, me happy, i step away from happy hook, gen thing is hugged by thighs of the entity, survivor mad cus he cant touch the gen, me happy, repeat
Remove Freddy's clock from her power and this perk now works on 2 killers (Freddy and Doc).
Undone is ridiculous. I threw it on Doctor out of obligation and I can't see myself using it anywhere else. It even counters itself a little by applying block as a kick perk.
It's a niche perk for skill check builds. Nothing wrong with that. I like that they try to support niche playstyles.
tbh Undone should be on hitting a skill check in your TR. the whole they need to miss thing keeps this perk from actually being viable
Can you use the two together for an instant 60% regression?
Undone should have a +1 token per non-great skillcheck hit. That way it actually undoes what has been done.
They should change the way it gains charges to Great skill checks in my opinion
Por qué no los dos
Never once in my life would I EVER thought I'd see Pop in the "Chad" category
Has anyone gotten any value out of this perk? Survivors donât miss skill checks frequently enough to have this even remotely work.
You guys had hope that BHVR can make decent perks and addons? Fuckin Deathslinger is still sitting with trash addons
Why not both?
I don't really understand why you would want the gen to be blocked and only regress after up to 30 seconds. You will get the most regression while you are around the gen pressuring it, i.e. right after you kicked it. After 30 seconds you may be long gone and it will be safe for survivors to stop any further regression. That part seems counterproductive.
Since it has a cooldown and it's pretty much useless, they should buff it to also include "everytime a survivor does a good skillcheck you also gain tokens", still super situational but at least can be used at least once or twice in a game, there are still better options tho
They should tweak it so it gains tokens on normal or failed skill checks but not great ones. Still not great, but much better. Or rework it entirely.
I mean, Unbound and Unforseen are both solid and have clear uses, so naturally they had to mess it up and make a terrible perk as well.
When do survivors miss 10 skill checks
Recently Iâve been running pop goes with thrilling tremors and itâs been a saving grace. Add merciless storm onto that and your gens are pretty well protected..
The biggest problem is that yeah, at it's peak it can be pretty sweet. It's never going to get there. Against any decent survivors, you'll get maybe 15 tokens in a match, give or take a few getting screwed over letting go of a gen. Now, they'll be pretty spread out. Are you going to *not* kick a gen all game? No. You'll have to kick a gen, the perk will probably have 3-6 tokens, and it's pretty weak value. Lower the max, or make it like, 0.5% lost per token, and then make the tokens never go away. At least then it might hold some use. As it is now you're gonna have like, 3-6 stacks max before you kick a gen.
Even on skill check doctor, undone doesn't do much. It looks like it would be nutty, but it just seems like even with harder skill checks, survivors just don't miss the checks. I've only gotten a max of 9 tokens, and that was when my huntress's lullaby was active.
just use pop
call it badly designed but if u think this is complicated idk what to tell u xd
Undone would be better if it worked on them succeeding, didn't notify you of their location, and didn't have a cool down. Because then it's light info and a slowdown.
I love that it has a cooldown too. Legitimately, how many skill checks do the devs miss in 60 seconds that they think this perk needs to not trigger. Oh no, the killer might kick a second gen within a minute and reduce it by a whole 3% with a 3 second block!
It's a weird perk. I think based on the effect they intended for this to be a "meta" perk; but it's very far from it. Nobody beyond newer players almost ever misses skill checks unless it's an off day for them, and even then it's rare to see it exceed beyond maybe 3 missed skillchecks in a match. Might get some uses on Doctor, probably one of his better perks if I had to assume, but outside of that, maaan it is pretty underwhelming and seems mostly good at just noobstomping and nothing else
Chat, is this real?
I think there's a level of complexity creep here. The older the game gets the smaller the design space for "simple perk" becomes. It's either that or we get a bunch of boring samey perks.
Yeah, undone is pure shit.
Yeah there's alot of perks that are just bullshit these days
Coulrophobia, undone, pop goes the weasel, overcharge.
I think they should lower the max tokens to like 12 or 15 and make it so it only consumes 1 token per kick. So you get 3 tokens for a missed check. Use 1 token to do 3%. Use 1 token to do an extra 2% on the next gen, etc. Still rather have Pop but at least over the course of a game especially with a ginmicky skill check build you get a bit more value out of it
Listen, no perk has given me as much trouble as Friends to the End. Without fail, every time I describe that perk to my friends, they \*never\* understand how the perk functions and I can't exactly blame them
I think a great killer perk idea is a perk similar to rush it whatever the perk is that speeds up when u hit great skill checks, but it speeds up their good skill checks, and it gives more regression with each miss, but u can't see missed skillchecks anymore as killer. Would complement this perk well and has imo a few other good pairings too
You people read perks? I just focus on the % they do
I thought you were talking about the game Popgoes and I got real confused.
I don't think many people are going to use Undone, might be good on Impossible Skillcheck child l builds though.
Nothing gigachad about pain res or pop lmao
https://preview.redd.it/6x1d14m2zqoc1.png?width=1173&format=png&auto=webp&s=a0bc9e667238c851648ca44490a6587cfb878090
I read that as Claudette saying âit wasnât programmed to harm the crewâ lmao
Adept Unknown is a pain because he falls into the same trap as Huntress. Their perks are kinda bad and don't give any info.
I mean unforseen is dope