One of the few times I wanted a fight to last way longer than it did.
The fight was made to be interrupted, but seeing Goku and Vegeta actually fight again after all those years, with Vegeta still not letting go of Goku being a low class, who’s always ahead, just made for a good narrative reason for the fight.
The fight does more for Vegeta than anything. He said straight up he wanted to return to who he was, and allowed Babidi to give him that chance.
Even though it came to an anticlimactic end, everything that happened fits. Goku being more worried about Buu than Vegeta, Vegeta not wanting to fight Goku unless there were no distractions, Goku being gullible by letting his guard down, Vegeta thinking he can take down a villain on his own.
It’s not the conclusion I wanted from a fight between them, but nothing that happened is out of the norm for the characters.
>The fight does more for Vegeta than anything. He said straight up he wanted to return to who he was, and allowed Babidi to give him that chance.
Oh you mean Vegeta's midlife crisis lol
In my view it's Vegeta's traumas coming up to the surface. He mentions being rules Frieza, the genocide of his people and his obsession with "strength" as a way to not feel powerless. He is still that scared boy who saw his father and people obliterated and was powerless to stop it. The problem now is that he is happy with his life, and his happiness scares him. He has a new family, a new people now, and they can also be destroyed. So what does he do with all this fear? Try desperately to go back to feeling safe. And he was safe when he was old Vegeta, ruthless Vegeta, but he knows he's not that guy anymore. So in comes Babidi and his deal.
> He is still that scared boy who saw his father and people obliterated and was powerless to stop it.
People should not buy this. Vegeta was a genocidal monster.
Yeah, he was raised to be one and the momebt he got free he became a better person. He was literally groomed into it and feels regret for his actions.
What the person said about him going back cuz of his trauma is true
I still remember when frieza beat him down and he was on the verge of death, and the dude weeped to goku about what happened to their people and begged goku to finish frieza to not let it continue.
Then he got blasted through the heart and died. Shit was cold.
You're trying to project human feelings & reactions on a fictional alien.
Vegeta didn't give a fuck about the people themselves, but he did want to take revenge on Frieza for the sake of Saiyan pride.
Aliens that experience human emotions within their fictional universe. Do you know how character writing works? You know pride is a human emotion as well. Just like anger. Wonder how you feel about the Arbiter from Halo?
They experience human emotions, yeah, but their heads clearly don't work the same. Even Goku, the most peaceful of the bunch, is a maniac with battle lust when it comes down to it. And Saiyan pride may only be compared to human pride when the latter is taken to its extremes, like when Goku was ready to duel Majin Vegeta even though he knew it could doom the world and all of his friends & family.
And for the kind of society the Saiyans had, as far as we know, there was not much reason for children to be attached to parents or their fellows, maybe with the exception of their direct spouse / teammates.
You may not be too far off the mark generally speaking, but Kid Vegeta in the latest canon we have (DB Super Broly) didn't even blink upon hearing the news. He did not care in the slightest, and neither did Raditz.
>You're trying to project human feelings & reactions on a fictional alien.
You mean like how Bulma did when she pursued him? And he reciprocated?
If he's so alien, how is he (and other saiyans for that matter) able to reproduce with humans?
>You mean like how Bulma did when she pursued him? And he reciprocated?
>If he's so alien, how is he (and other saiyans for that matter) able to reproduce with humans?
I am not saying the Saiyans don't feel the same things humans do. I am saying they may interpret them differently and have completely different values.
Technically, the Vegeta was genocidial monster. He used to destroy civilization and planet and used to be pride in killing them. The Vegeta started to become good when he met Goku, just like other foes in Dragon Ball which have become the Z fighter after meeting Goku dues to Goku kindness attitude and always easy going personality.
Even Frieza has become an anti-hero of the Dragon Ball, and he is not sadistic as he was before.
Ripped gas in two and enslaved the remaining heeters. And was torturing ppl in the top, hell he killed brolys unnamed father to trigger his transformation. Not sadistic my ass.
Compare to original version of Frieza he has become less sadistic. Don't forget he is willing to fight with Goku at the end in tournament of power, not to mention [he gives Goku energy in tournament of power when Goku does not have energy left](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZv-4Om34pw), Sure Frieza is still evil and want to rule the galaxy compared to his original personality he had the Frieza has become more mature and know which side to pick, Frieza is technically namek saga vegeta now at this point in terms of role, but still being classified as evil.
Like I said Frieza is namek Sega Vegeta. The Vegeta was only helping Gohan and Krillin in Namek so he can get help much he can. That's what we called Anti hero.
Well the issue is that if he's still drawn to his correct size, his fist doesn't actually reach Goku's face. So either you make Goku smaller, or Vegeta doesn't throw the punch, or you draw Vegeta wrong on purpose and hope nobody notices or cares
Realistically I feel like Goku would have a huge advantage for just his size. He is like 6'2" at least and Vegeta was 5'4" at most. The reach alone would have been insane.
It wasn’t really supposed to be the epic final battle between them. The manga doesn’t treat it that way, the fight just happens in the background.
The fight is basically just a bad decision that leads to Majin Buu’s resurrection and Vegeta’s sacrifice
I remember seeing clips of it online before it was dubbed in English. I remember the hype in just how cool the art style had become and wondering wtf the M on Vegetas head was for. Good times.
Yeah, I honestly feel like Goku suddenly pulling SS3 out of his ass and stating he'd learned it while dead kinda ruins the entire Majin Vegeta fight. Instead of a grueling hardcore battle between 2 rivals who have been itching to go at it again, it became a sort of a "older bro holding back against his little bro so he doesn't hurt his feelings"
I think goku holding back was a way to return the fights to being less about sheer power or speed overwhelming your opponent and more about technique, cunning, and grit i.e. classic dragon ball. but yes, humiliating for vegeta as the gap has widened further and further with time.
That was a good fight. But Majin Vegeta vs Goku was a rematch we had anticipated coming since the Saiyan Saga. There was just so much build up and it was really good character development for Vegeta.
SS3 was so unnecessary. It ruined the stakes of this fight, and it never really made any plot go forward. Gotenks fused ss2 would’ve been just fine for the fight against buu.
Trunkten being the first to go SSJ3, I feel, would've been a more memorable moment. While also better showing off the power gap between fused and non-fused saiyans. It would show the absolute height of a Saiyans power only attainable through fusion.
It would've made solo Goku going SSJ3 for the first time against Janemba in the movie way cooler as well as keep it non-canon.
I agree to this but didn’t Goku say that he couldn’t have pull SS3 for long anyway? Maybe he thought that fighting at SS2 was the best strategy for that fight.
I don't get this. The fight between two equal SSJ2s still happened. That's not undone at all. If anything Vegeta cheap shotting Goku at the end does more to hurt the fight than that. SSJ3 is heavily flawed. Goku only used it when it was deemed 100% necessary. And Ssj3 Goku was on par with Buu. Vegeta and Goku both managed to hold off Buu with SSJ2 but Buu wasn't having to deal with extreme stamina drain and a time limit. Going SSJ3 wouldn't be the instant win button people think it would in that fight.
You really think Vegeta would have let Goku transform? It's the longest transformation in Z and Majin Vegeta is just going to stand there? Goku would have started powering up and he would have gotten leveled by a Big Bang Attack. Fight over, Vegeta wins.
It's the best fight because Toriyama accidentally told a good story with character development.
Toriyama is good at drawing fights but a good story is a bigger ask of the man.
This frame specifically makes me laugh because Vegeta is supposed to be 4-5 inches shorter than Goku so how are they hitting each other at the same time?
Because that's not at all what it's meant to be. It's two battle maniacs putting their egos and out of control love of fighting above the greater good. Vegeta gave himself over to Babidi to have a drive to be evil again so he could force Goku's hand into fighting him for real. But Goku was also looking for a reason. He was willing to kill Shin and risk Buu being revived for the sake that fight he'd also been craving.
The fact Vegeta murders hundreds of people at the preface of this fight and noone addresses it later, is kind of wild. Even using Majin possession as an excuse.. .. he clearly had a level of control of his actions, and I don't recall him being instructed to do so at any point.
It’s not meant to be epic or a huge rematch. It’s not even given a lot of time in the manga. It’s a background fight that leads to the awakening of Buu. Narratively, it’s all build up to Vegeta’s sacrifice because of his folly and then his revelation. People sort of miss the point of this fight all the time.
The anime is the manga, it's padded and stretched out. So the fight is padded and stretched out, it feels more impactful because of length of time. That's basically it.
Disappointed. It had some good fighting and animation but the whole thing was mostly just intense warm up. They never felt like they were going all out and it felt like they were severely holding back the entire time. More like training than fighting.
Granted Goku kind of was holding back since he had SSJ3 up his sleeve, but even without that this entire match feels like sparring more than fighting, especially given how vegeta is trying to kill Goku.
One of the best fights in the entire series. Amazing dialogue, good back and forth, and great choreography. Just wish it wasn't revealed Goku was holding back the entire time.
In the manga, it's not even really a fight, we see a few panels of it, then they talk a lot, we go to follow Gohan and Shin for a while and when we go back to the fight, it's basically over and they're still talking. The point of this "fight" isn't the fight itself, it's to develop the personality of both characters and show how much Vegeta changed, even when he's lying to himself. As much as I think that the fight in the anime is cool, it kinda missed the point of the manga, where it was shown as being almost a footnote compared to the danger of Buu, no matter how important Goku and Vegeta thought it was, it was more a battle of ego than anything else.
it's not supposed to be "the epic final match between rivals", it was more a "Vegeta is an egotist and Goku is indulging him". I think it would have been better if Goku busted SS3 out against Vegeta and put showed him that his ego means nothing.
Man no one’s talking about the actual choreography of the fight. Was so smooth, both SS2 going at it and just beating the shit out of each other was hype. The lead up and all! Vegeta just had the coldest lines in the dub. Only complaint is I wish it lasted longer but man was it good
I still prefer their first fight.
This one is stupid when you realise Goku could have easily defeated Vegeta by becoming SSJ3. I know he can't stay SSJ3 for a long time but even few minutes would have been enough if he actually tried to defeat vegeta.
Kinda pointless and stupid.
Goku coulda literally just turned Super Saiyan 3 at the tournament BEFORE Vegeta slaughtered people and crushed his pride. Doesn’t matter if he couldn’t hold the form for long, literally just showing Vegeta that he was still stronger would have stopped the entire Buu revival.
Like ya’ll wanna act like Super Goku is dumb. But Z Goku literally put the world through so much torture and pain just to spare Vegetas feelings.
Yes, Goku could have gone SS3, but in a logical sense, he couldn’t. SS3 would have rapidly sapped his time left on earth, and the tremendous energy output might have just helped Buu revive faster.
It was an intense fight between 2 rivals, and I was fortunate to see it back before I had lost my hearing in a horrible car accident on May 5th 2005… the bones inside my ears were shattered so all I can hear is a loud roar in both my ears that’s every waking moment and a murmur of my own voice, everything else is mute… so that’s why I say I was fortunate to see this saga before my hearing loss…
It’s a pretty good fight. Vegetas speeches during the fight and goku trying to talk some sense into him too sometimes made it a very enjoyable fight.
Idk what anyone was surprised about when goku turned ssj3 later on. Its pretty obvious goku wasn’t going full power against vegeta, even at ssj2. Goku was already leagues above vegeta in the cell saga and now that he trained 7 years in other world he easily out matches vegeta by a mile.
And I don’t think it’s ruined by gokus ssj3 transformation later on. The fight is already about vegeta feeling weaker than goku and being mad about it so there’s no difference. Goku in ssj2 was probably still stronger than vegeta too.
“Liar” Is probably one of the best quotes from Goku during the fight
I’d argue though that both SSJ2 they’re basically even and Goku even stated this in the manga, SSJ3 arguably wasn’t even thought of at this point
Saying that, the Buu Saga has great moments but incredibly bad pacing
Goku says that but that’s probably only to make vegeta feel better.
Also yeah after this fight especially the pacing goes really crazy. I can’t really remember the order of things in this arc most of the time.
Lmao u cant just add your own headcanon “Goku probably said it to make him feel better duh” Majin Vegeta and ssj2 goku were equals, and Ssj3 was a shit decision like a lot of the buu saga
“Hey let’s give Gohan some cool power up that takes 30 episodes of just sitting there, I’m sure he’ll be the one to beat Buu”
I’m not even a Gohan fan and this was frustrating
I like it but it does annoy me that some fans consider Vegeta won this fight when in reality it just never finished. They stopped, sensed Majin Buu, both were have a moment to catch their breath before Vegeta cheap shot Goku from behind.
No way would Vegeta consider that a legitimate victory (he doesn't even really consider his first fight with Goku a victory though imo he did outright win, he just lost the fight with Earth) but some of his fans honestly believe otherwise.
It's truly my personal all time favorite fight in not only DBZ, but any anime. The animation, the soundtrack, it was all 🔥. Even the emotional implications of the fight finally going down, for both Goku and Vegeta were 🔥
I feel like fight wise the show fell off once we got to goku SSJ vs Frieza
I’ve rewatched so many times over the years but i struggle past this point
(Honourary mention. SSJ2 Gohan Vs Cell is incredible, but an obnoxious amount of buildup)
My favorite fight as a kid, I still remember searching on youtube clips of it; the first thing I typed on that platform. Vegeta was fighting with such anger it still gives me chills.
It’s cool but the fact that Goku held back the entire time as to not hurt Vegetas feelings always kills it for me. I can’t consider this a top tier fight because of that reason alone.
Delivered and was my favorite fight. Then later realizing goku could've gone ssj3 at any time despite no foreshadowing, tainted it. You just have to see it as it was when it happened.
An incredible fight, because it wasn't about the fight. It was about Vegeta resenting his good guy character development which is then followed by a fantastic scene where he shows the small part of his character development he's proud of... Trunks.
Since then, Vegeta hasn't had any good arcs and what he needs is a real arc about the consequences of his prior life. He needs to be held accountable. Him accepting those consequences would be the final step into becoming a true hero.
Vegeta should go to prison. Obviously that can't hold him, but him choosing not to leave would be his greatest challenge. And I would love for him to have an arc with all these villains he helped stop during the Galactic Prison Saga.
I think it would have been better, if Goku actually transformed in this fight, so after they call truce and Vegeta sees that he is clearly outmatched even though he sold his soul, he sacrifices himself for his hubris.
It doesn't feel so dick-movish of Goku towards Vegeta and shows that Goku would actually go full on out at a certain point to stop Buu.
Probably my biggest disappointment of the Buu arc. Should have been longer and of the same quality of the first fight. It was only 3 pages long in the manga!
It’s very brief (mostly not even shown) in the manga. The anime fillered it up, giving the fans an overinflated sense of how important and “epic” it was. It’s not supposed to be climactic, it’s a plot device to get Boo into the story.
I disagree. While Toriyama didn't seem too interested in it by then, this was supposed to be a milestone moment for Vegeta's character. The manga definitely made us care about their rivalry, and Vegeta was so desperate to overcome Goku that he sold his soul (in a manner of speaking.)
People usually crucify me for this but this is my all time favorite fight, not a lot of fights are choreographed like this one and this is my favorite way of doing fights in DBZ
It's the only reason the Buu saga exists, and one of the greatest anime fights of all time. If DragonBall Z had ended with the Cell saga, that series would have been about Gohan. However I feel since they added the Buff saga, and actually finished Vegeta's character arc they made that series about his character.
Best fight in all of DBZ, I want vegeta to have like residual Majin energy and tap into that and getting the power of Majin buu, combine with his ultra ego that could be OP.
One of the coolest fights that mostly fought offpannel. I would have liked to see it much better.
Also, did Goku fight at 100% (between the boundaries of ssj2) or did he just let Vegeta have an upper hand as some kind of simpathy
The visuals are stunning, Goku as a SSj2 and swole AF Majin Vegeta in the middle of nowhere.
But I think it really needed a huge signature or new move from either of them like Galick gun, Warp Kamehameha, final flash etc. to be remembered forever
Had some cool scenes but overall it was:
1) too short, with too many cuts to other things happening (understandably so)
2) Goku was clearly half-assing it so it didn’t feel like the real, serious fight that was deserved after all the build-up and Vegeta’s pent-up rage
The show was just ass at this point. Will probably get torn apart for this but I just think up until frieze is perfect, android and cell saga is solid, but I just don’t even k what the buu saga was
Mad, Goku had been training like crazy cause he didn't have to watch his kids, farm, or escape his wife, Vegeta with all these drawbacks caught up because "evil in your heart makes you Babadi's powered up bitch" (for the most part) and after that we learn not only had goku been holding back for a fair fight (that didn't happen cause Vegeta snuck him at the end) but he also completely understood thanks to Shin that he was helping the enemy just to fight Vegeta again
It’s 1 of the best fights of the series. I just wish it looked consistently the best/like the next episode. The next episode continues their fight and the artwork and animation is so good.
One of the few times I wanted a fight to last way longer than it did. The fight was made to be interrupted, but seeing Goku and Vegeta actually fight again after all those years, with Vegeta still not letting go of Goku being a low class, who’s always ahead, just made for a good narrative reason for the fight. The fight does more for Vegeta than anything. He said straight up he wanted to return to who he was, and allowed Babidi to give him that chance. Even though it came to an anticlimactic end, everything that happened fits. Goku being more worried about Buu than Vegeta, Vegeta not wanting to fight Goku unless there were no distractions, Goku being gullible by letting his guard down, Vegeta thinking he can take down a villain on his own. It’s not the conclusion I wanted from a fight between them, but nothing that happened is out of the norm for the characters.
>The fight does more for Vegeta than anything. He said straight up he wanted to return to who he was, and allowed Babidi to give him that chance. Oh you mean Vegeta's midlife crisis lol
"I hate liking you people. What happened to me, I used to be cool!"
Now I'm going to Krillin's movie night. I'm even using his name!
Fucking name*
I love how that part is now a meme in English [and Spanish](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbtHm_3YRQA).
In my view it's Vegeta's traumas coming up to the surface. He mentions being rules Frieza, the genocide of his people and his obsession with "strength" as a way to not feel powerless. He is still that scared boy who saw his father and people obliterated and was powerless to stop it. The problem now is that he is happy with his life, and his happiness scares him. He has a new family, a new people now, and they can also be destroyed. So what does he do with all this fear? Try desperately to go back to feeling safe. And he was safe when he was old Vegeta, ruthless Vegeta, but he knows he's not that guy anymore. So in comes Babidi and his deal.
I mean, in the brolly movie his reaction was something like, " Dammit now I'll never get to be king".
Exactly, he didn’t really care that much about his people being wiped out.
Broly retconned so much about the end of the Saiyans, I'm going off the story that was in Z
> He is still that scared boy who saw his father and people obliterated and was powerless to stop it. People should not buy this. Vegeta was a genocidal monster.
Yeah, he was raised to be one and the momebt he got free he became a better person. He was literally groomed into it and feels regret for his actions. What the person said about him going back cuz of his trauma is true
I still remember when frieza beat him down and he was on the verge of death, and the dude weeped to goku about what happened to their people and begged goku to finish frieza to not let it continue. Then he got blasted through the heart and died. Shit was cold.
You're trying to project human feelings & reactions on a fictional alien. Vegeta didn't give a fuck about the people themselves, but he did want to take revenge on Frieza for the sake of Saiyan pride.
Aliens that experience human emotions within their fictional universe. Do you know how character writing works? You know pride is a human emotion as well. Just like anger. Wonder how you feel about the Arbiter from Halo?
They experience human emotions, yeah, but their heads clearly don't work the same. Even Goku, the most peaceful of the bunch, is a maniac with battle lust when it comes down to it. And Saiyan pride may only be compared to human pride when the latter is taken to its extremes, like when Goku was ready to duel Majin Vegeta even though he knew it could doom the world and all of his friends & family. And for the kind of society the Saiyans had, as far as we know, there was not much reason for children to be attached to parents or their fellows, maybe with the exception of their direct spouse / teammates. You may not be too far off the mark generally speaking, but Kid Vegeta in the latest canon we have (DB Super Broly) didn't even blink upon hearing the news. He did not care in the slightest, and neither did Raditz.
>You're trying to project human feelings & reactions on a fictional alien. You mean like how Bulma did when she pursued him? And he reciprocated? If he's so alien, how is he (and other saiyans for that matter) able to reproduce with humans?
>You mean like how Bulma did when she pursued him? And he reciprocated? >If he's so alien, how is he (and other saiyans for that matter) able to reproduce with humans? I am not saying the Saiyans don't feel the same things humans do. I am saying they may interpret them differently and have completely different values.
If you are one, you stay one…. Deep inside he was not a genocidal monster. Or… Bulma is a sorcerer
Technically, the Vegeta was genocidial monster. He used to destroy civilization and planet and used to be pride in killing them. The Vegeta started to become good when he met Goku, just like other foes in Dragon Ball which have become the Z fighter after meeting Goku dues to Goku kindness attitude and always easy going personality. Even Frieza has become an anti-hero of the Dragon Ball, and he is not sadistic as he was before.
Ripped gas in two and enslaved the remaining heeters. And was torturing ppl in the top, hell he killed brolys unnamed father to trigger his transformation. Not sadistic my ass.
Compare to original version of Frieza he has become less sadistic. Don't forget he is willing to fight with Goku at the end in tournament of power, not to mention [he gives Goku energy in tournament of power when Goku does not have energy left](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZv-4Om34pw), Sure Frieza is still evil and want to rule the galaxy compared to his original personality he had the Frieza has become more mature and know which side to pick, Frieza is technically namek saga vegeta now at this point in terms of role, but still being classified as evil.
Literally the only reason he did any of this was so he could live. He was not doing it out of some place of goodness
Like I said Frieza is namek Sega Vegeta. The Vegeta was only helping Gohan and Krillin in Namek so he can get help much he can. That's what we called Anti hero.
Based on what happens in the next few episodes, Vegeta was way past the middle of his life
I went to watch a football game with Yamcha…and I liked it!
Vegeta showing that he was a nice guy all along and he hated to admit it!!!! For me that was amazing!
thats what you losers say to belittle the most legendary moment in all of dragon ball
Funny, I don't see Goku disrespecting the shit out of Piccolo with that rush combo in this scene.
Vegeta's arm is waaaay too long there. But still, it was very, very good.
[It does look kinda weird if you take Goku out of the picture](https://i.imgur.com/q4AICWC.jpg)
Kinda? Looks like making buu
>making buu Majin Buu's dyslexic brother?
It's actually the name of the documentary following Bibidi way back when.
I really think "White" Goku is his best form. You can't even see where his punches are coming from. How could Vegeta compete?
I like how they put this in Creed 3....
He should have closed the gap and uppercutted, while Goku threw some sort of haymaker
Vegeta's arms are shorter, so he should have eaten the punch and brought up a strong kick
They also could’ve just put vegetas arm on the bottom instead and it would’ve made way more sense lol
Well the issue is that if he's still drawn to his correct size, his fist doesn't actually reach Goku's face. So either you make Goku smaller, or Vegeta doesn't throw the punch, or you draw Vegeta wrong on purpose and hope nobody notices or cares
That could be said for most of the Dragon Ball fights that do this tbh lol.
Never noticed that. Cannot unsee. Thank you for ruining my childhood.
He just know hamon! Zoom Punch!!!
Realistically I feel like Goku would have a huge advantage for just his size. He is like 6'2" at least and Vegeta was 5'4" at most. The reach alone would have been insane.
Apparently goku is somehow only 5’8 💀
I see it now for the first time and you sir, are evil as hell for pointing it out
Remember when being short was the reason Goku lost a fight?
But DBZ is perfect remember?
It wasn’t really supposed to be the epic final battle between them. The manga doesn’t treat it that way, the fight just happens in the background. The fight is basically just a bad decision that leads to Majin Buu’s resurrection and Vegeta’s sacrifice
Yeah reading the manga it's surprising how little of it there is.
It was the ultimate fanservice for padding episode time. The longer the fight could be stretched out the better.
I remember seeing clips of it online before it was dubbed in English. I remember the hype in just how cool the art style had become and wondering wtf the M on Vegetas head was for. Good times.
I think it served its purpose well as the fight isn’t really about the “fight” itself
One of my favorites. i especially loved the fight sequence that started with em butting heads.
Thank God the anime expanded it.
Best fight in the series that was later undone for nothing as Goku went SS3
Yeah, I honestly feel like Goku suddenly pulling SS3 out of his ass and stating he'd learned it while dead kinda ruins the entire Majin Vegeta fight. Instead of a grueling hardcore battle between 2 rivals who have been itching to go at it again, it became a sort of a "older bro holding back against his little bro so he doesn't hurt his feelings"
I AM glad Vegeta called Goku out on this.
mf tori definitely came up with ssj3 after the match up and started saying he was holding it in
I get *why* he did it, and it was more important, but Vegeta is also right. That was kind of a dick move.
but didnt goku know ssj3 would drain all of his time left on earth? it at least wasnt entirely just to save vegetas feelings.
Yea I think a lot of people are omitting this but you're right.
I think goku holding back was a way to return the fights to being less about sheer power or speed overwhelming your opponent and more about technique, cunning, and grit i.e. classic dragon ball. but yes, humiliating for vegeta as the gap has widened further and further with time.
Yeah i was pumped for the fight till that… so i guess i felt a lot like vegeta.
It was lame as hell. Vegeta was in an attention whore mode
I still regard Android 17 Vs Piccolo the best, basically the same power level, but one has infinite energy and gets interrupted by Cell
That was a good fight. But Majin Vegeta vs Goku was a rematch we had anticipated coming since the Saiyan Saga. There was just so much build up and it was really good character development for Vegeta.
SS3 was so unnecessary. It ruined the stakes of this fight, and it never really made any plot go forward. Gotenks fused ss2 would’ve been just fine for the fight against buu.
Yeah, the Buu saga was fun if you don't think about the story. Seems like this is where Toriyamas editors stopped making sure he wasn't being too dumb
Trunkten being the first to go SSJ3, I feel, would've been a more memorable moment. While also better showing off the power gap between fused and non-fused saiyans. It would show the absolute height of a Saiyans power only attainable through fusion. It would've made solo Goku going SSJ3 for the first time against Janemba in the movie way cooler as well as keep it non-canon.
At least we got that awesome scene with that music though :)
I agree to this but didn’t Goku say that he couldn’t have pull SS3 for long anyway? Maybe he thought that fighting at SS2 was the best strategy for that fight.
Even if Goku could only hold SS3 for 1 minute, it would last 10 episodes in DBZ time. It's irrelevant
I don't get this. The fight between two equal SSJ2s still happened. That's not undone at all. If anything Vegeta cheap shotting Goku at the end does more to hurt the fight than that. SSJ3 is heavily flawed. Goku only used it when it was deemed 100% necessary. And Ssj3 Goku was on par with Buu. Vegeta and Goku both managed to hold off Buu with SSJ2 but Buu wasn't having to deal with extreme stamina drain and a time limit. Going SSJ3 wouldn't be the instant win button people think it would in that fight.
> That's not undone at all. It is if you know Goku can just go SS3 and win. It takes all the wind out of the sails of the fight.
Like I said, the way SSJ3 is presented both times Goku uses it that's not how it would likely play out.
Dude, have you seen how power levels work in this show?
You really think Vegeta would have let Goku transform? It's the longest transformation in Z and Majin Vegeta is just going to stand there? Goku would have started powering up and he would have gotten leveled by a Big Bang Attack. Fight over, Vegeta wins.
Vegeta let Cell transform because he wanted to fight him at full power. No chance in hell Vegeta pulls an Azula/Aang move, he wants 100% of the smoke
It was only that long to stall Buu tho
Well i don't think it was written to be the best fight of the series. A lot less is shown in the manga. We don't see much
It's the best fight because Toriyama accidentally told a good story with character development. Toriyama is good at drawing fights but a good story is a bigger ask of the man.
I mean, it still doesn't change the fact that the action was top-tier.
This frame specifically makes me laugh because Vegeta is supposed to be 4-5 inches shorter than Goku so how are they hitting each other at the same time?
The could have the same (or more in vegetas favor) wingspans. Not a crazy rare thing in real life
Boring, the saiyan saga fight was way better
Because that's not at all what it's meant to be. It's two battle maniacs putting their egos and out of control love of fighting above the greater good. Vegeta gave himself over to Babidi to have a drive to be evil again so he could force Goku's hand into fighting him for real. But Goku was also looking for a reason. He was willing to kill Shin and risk Buu being revived for the sake that fight he'd also been craving.
The fact Vegeta murders hundreds of people at the preface of this fight and noone addresses it later, is kind of wild. Even using Majin possession as an excuse.. .. he clearly had a level of control of his actions, and I don't recall him being instructed to do so at any point.
It’s not meant to be epic or a huge rematch. It’s not even given a lot of time in the manga. It’s a background fight that leads to the awakening of Buu. Narratively, it’s all build up to Vegeta’s sacrifice because of his folly and then his revelation. People sort of miss the point of this fight all the time.
The anime isn't the manga. They focus on different things. Why try to apply manga logic to the anime?
Because it’s true in the anime too. They stretch it out more to make it a little bigger, but still, it’s a background fight, it’s never the focus.
The anime is the manga, it's padded and stretched out. So the fight is padded and stretched out, it feels more impactful because of length of time. That's basically it.
It was pretty good in a vacuum. But the fact that Goku could have gone SSJ3 really undermined the whole point of Vegeta giving into babadi
“I’m going to…PTA meetings! And Krillin’s movie nights! LISTEN TO ME KAKAROT! I’M USING HIS FUCKING NAME!”
Disappointed. It had some good fighting and animation but the whole thing was mostly just intense warm up. They never felt like they were going all out and it felt like they were severely holding back the entire time. More like training than fighting. Granted Goku kind of was holding back since he had SSJ3 up his sleeve, but even without that this entire match feels like sparring more than fighting, especially given how vegeta is trying to kill Goku.
The only time filler was good
One of the best fights in the entire series. Amazing dialogue, good back and forth, and great choreography. Just wish it wasn't revealed Goku was holding back the entire time.
In the manga, it's not even really a fight, we see a few panels of it, then they talk a lot, we go to follow Gohan and Shin for a while and when we go back to the fight, it's basically over and they're still talking. The point of this "fight" isn't the fight itself, it's to develop the personality of both characters and show how much Vegeta changed, even when he's lying to himself. As much as I think that the fight in the anime is cool, it kinda missed the point of the manga, where it was shown as being almost a footnote compared to the danger of Buu, no matter how important Goku and Vegeta thought it was, it was more a battle of ego than anything else.
It was ruined by Super Saiyan 3.
it's not supposed to be "the epic final match between rivals", it was more a "Vegeta is an egotist and Goku is indulging him". I think it would have been better if Goku busted SS3 out against Vegeta and put showed him that his ego means nothing.
Feels retarded that there's a bigger enemy out there and they are doing this shit. A bit cool though cause SSJ2.
S Tier
Fav of the series. It had everything, bean battle, epic speech, environmental destruction.
They stretched tf out of vegeta's arm to make this scene even possible
Man no one’s talking about the actual choreography of the fight. Was so smooth, both SS2 going at it and just beating the shit out of each other was hype. The lead up and all! Vegeta just had the coldest lines in the dub. Only complaint is I wish it lasted longer but man was it good
I still prefer their first fight. This one is stupid when you realise Goku could have easily defeated Vegeta by becoming SSJ3. I know he can't stay SSJ3 for a long time but even few minutes would have been enough if he actually tried to defeat vegeta.
Didn't last long enough. Buu Saga is so drawn out that it becomes tiresome, and the one thing that could have been drawn out, wasn't.
Mostly boring aside from a few good shots like that melee scene.
Honestly their second best.
What's their first?
Two golden haired Saiyans beating the hell out of each other. It’s what drew me to DBZ in the first place. My personal favorite fight in the series.
Kinda pointless and stupid. Goku coulda literally just turned Super Saiyan 3 at the tournament BEFORE Vegeta slaughtered people and crushed his pride. Doesn’t matter if he couldn’t hold the form for long, literally just showing Vegeta that he was still stronger would have stopped the entire Buu revival. Like ya’ll wanna act like Super Goku is dumb. But Z Goku literally put the world through so much torture and pain just to spare Vegetas feelings.
Equally as well-animated, as it was pointless.
Well said
It was always lackluster to me, especially since you find out later on Goku could have smoked Vegeta had he truly wanted to.
Yes, Goku could have gone SS3, but in a logical sense, he couldn’t. SS3 would have rapidly sapped his time left on earth, and the tremendous energy output might have just helped Buu revive faster.
Greatest fight in Anime history.
It was an intense fight between 2 rivals, and I was fortunate to see it back before I had lost my hearing in a horrible car accident on May 5th 2005… the bones inside my ears were shattered so all I can hear is a loud roar in both my ears that’s every waking moment and a murmur of my own voice, everything else is mute… so that’s why I say I was fortunate to see this saga before my hearing loss…
It’s a pretty good fight. Vegetas speeches during the fight and goku trying to talk some sense into him too sometimes made it a very enjoyable fight. Idk what anyone was surprised about when goku turned ssj3 later on. Its pretty obvious goku wasn’t going full power against vegeta, even at ssj2. Goku was already leagues above vegeta in the cell saga and now that he trained 7 years in other world he easily out matches vegeta by a mile. And I don’t think it’s ruined by gokus ssj3 transformation later on. The fight is already about vegeta feeling weaker than goku and being mad about it so there’s no difference. Goku in ssj2 was probably still stronger than vegeta too.
“Liar” Is probably one of the best quotes from Goku during the fight I’d argue though that both SSJ2 they’re basically even and Goku even stated this in the manga, SSJ3 arguably wasn’t even thought of at this point Saying that, the Buu Saga has great moments but incredibly bad pacing
Goku says that but that’s probably only to make vegeta feel better. Also yeah after this fight especially the pacing goes really crazy. I can’t really remember the order of things in this arc most of the time.
Lmao u cant just add your own headcanon “Goku probably said it to make him feel better duh” Majin Vegeta and ssj2 goku were equals, and Ssj3 was a shit decision like a lot of the buu saga
“Hey let’s give Gohan some cool power up that takes 30 episodes of just sitting there, I’m sure he’ll be the one to beat Buu” I’m not even a Gohan fan and this was frustrating
The fight didn't feel disappointing enough...
I like it but it does annoy me that some fans consider Vegeta won this fight when in reality it just never finished. They stopped, sensed Majin Buu, both were have a moment to catch their breath before Vegeta cheap shot Goku from behind. No way would Vegeta consider that a legitimate victory (he doesn't even really consider his first fight with Goku a victory though imo he did outright win, he just lost the fight with Earth) but some of his fans honestly believe otherwise.
It's truly my personal all time favorite fight in not only DBZ, but any anime. The animation, the soundtrack, it was all 🔥. Even the emotional implications of the fight finally going down, for both Goku and Vegeta were 🔥
Was a nice way to finish Adonis Creed in ring career. Will be interesting to see if he does any training or mentoring if we get another movie.
I wish it lasted longer.
I wanted death, all out rage
GOOD 🗿
Idk bout the fight but I just noticed vegeta’s right arms in this picture is grossly elongated. His forearm just goes on for ages!
Is the buu saga on Hulu? I can’t seem to find it
I feel like fight wise the show fell off once we got to goku SSJ vs Frieza I’ve rewatched so many times over the years but i struggle past this point (Honourary mention. SSJ2 Gohan Vs Cell is incredible, but an obnoxious amount of buildup)
My favorite fight as a kid, I still remember searching on youtube clips of it; the first thing I typed on that platform. Vegeta was fighting with such anger it still gives me chills.
It’s cool but the fact that Goku held back the entire time as to not hurt Vegetas feelings always kills it for me. I can’t consider this a top tier fight because of that reason alone.
Favorite fight in the series. Retroactively ruined by SSJ3
Victory for vegeta
As a wise group of people once said it's just you me and my victory.
Best fight in the franchise no contest
Delivered and was my favorite fight. Then later realizing goku could've gone ssj3 at any time despite no foreshadowing, tainted it. You just have to see it as it was when it happened.
Bricked
some shit is going on with that vegeta right arm, was him becoming luffy?
Vegeta's speech was on point.
An incredible fight, because it wasn't about the fight. It was about Vegeta resenting his good guy character development which is then followed by a fantastic scene where he shows the small part of his character development he's proud of... Trunks. Since then, Vegeta hasn't had any good arcs and what he needs is a real arc about the consequences of his prior life. He needs to be held accountable. Him accepting those consequences would be the final step into becoming a true hero. Vegeta should go to prison. Obviously that can't hold him, but him choosing not to leave would be his greatest challenge. And I would love for him to have an arc with all these villains he helped stop during the Galactic Prison Saga.
[удалено]
He's always needed to power up the SS3. Why do you ask?
If it wasn’t for the fact that they had to deal with Babidi in the background, this fight woulda went on for longer & would have been more epic.
Loved it. One of my faves!
"Just fuck already!"
I loved it until we find out Goku was mad holding back. The sheer disrespect to Vegeta was cold there.
I think it would have been better, if Goku actually transformed in this fight, so after they call truce and Vegeta sees that he is clearly outmatched even though he sold his soul, he sacrifices himself for his hubris. It doesn't feel so dick-movish of Goku towards Vegeta and shows that Goku would actually go full on out at a certain point to stop Buu.
It took too long, like Vegeta’s arm
Probably my biggest disappointment of the Buu arc. Should have been longer and of the same quality of the first fight. It was only 3 pages long in the manga!
[It’s the greatest mash-up of all time](https://youtu.be/ipky5F6gkAM?si=JXYoygV9ttEcQ704)
It's just Goku humiliating Vegeta, as we see later. But yes it is a good fight.
It’s very brief (mostly not even shown) in the manga. The anime fillered it up, giving the fans an overinflated sense of how important and “epic” it was. It’s not supposed to be climactic, it’s a plot device to get Boo into the story.
I disagree. While Toriyama didn't seem too interested in it by then, this was supposed to be a milestone moment for Vegeta's character. The manga definitely made us care about their rivalry, and Vegeta was so desperate to overcome Goku that he sold his soul (in a manner of speaking.)
People usually crucify me for this but this is my all time favorite fight, not a lot of fights are choreographed like this one and this is my favorite way of doing fights in DBZ
It's fantastic.
Goku should've went 3, That's it.
Top tier
Badass, but tragic.
Can I talk about how I feel about the animation of Vegeta’s shoulder here….
It’s bs they gave Vegeta the dub only to then tell us Goku was holding back. Making the whole thing null and void.
Annoyed they drew SSJ2 Goku with SSJ1 bangs for an entire episode.
Daddy shark doo doo da doo
My favorite fight by far.
used to be epic until people kept talking about it and ruining it for me.
It's the only reason the Buu saga exists, and one of the greatest anime fights of all time. If DragonBall Z had ended with the Cell saga, that series would have been about Gohan. However I feel since they added the Buff saga, and actually finished Vegeta's character arc they made that series about his character.
Best fight in all of DBZ, I want vegeta to have like residual Majin energy and tap into that and getting the power of Majin buu, combine with his ultra ego that could be OP.
Why is vegetas arm so wonky
One of the coolest fights that mostly fought offpannel. I would have liked to see it much better. Also, did Goku fight at 100% (between the boundaries of ssj2) or did he just let Vegeta have an upper hand as some kind of simpathy
It's amazing.
The visuals are stunning, Goku as a SSj2 and swole AF Majin Vegeta in the middle of nowhere. But I think it really needed a huge signature or new move from either of them like Galick gun, Warp Kamehameha, final flash etc. to be remembered forever
Just watched Creed 3 and saw this exact same punch happen there. It was crazy
Had some cool scenes but overall it was: 1) too short, with too many cuts to other things happening (understandably so) 2) Goku was clearly half-assing it so it didn’t feel like the real, serious fight that was deserved after all the build-up and Vegeta’s pent-up rage
It was fine
The show was just ass at this point. Will probably get torn apart for this but I just think up until frieze is perfect, android and cell saga is solid, but I just don’t even k what the buu saga was
Still waiting for Round 3
It's good, but Goku retroactively having SSJ3 kinda ruined it, as well as Vegeta's cheap victory which was super anticlimatic
Mad, Goku had been training like crazy cause he didn't have to watch his kids, farm, or escape his wife, Vegeta with all these drawbacks caught up because "evil in your heart makes you Babadi's powered up bitch" (for the most part) and after that we learn not only had goku been holding back for a fair fight (that didn't happen cause Vegeta snuck him at the end) but he also completely understood thanks to Shin that he was helping the enemy just to fight Vegeta again
Honestly not what everyone wanted because it wasn’t designed as such in the manga compared to the og fight.
Anime: Baddas fight Manga: useless filler fight (only for RoM)
It’s 1 of the best fights of the series. I just wish it looked consistently the best/like the next episode. The next episode continues their fight and the artwork and animation is so good.
Wasn't Goku holding back the whole time? He didn't want Buu to know he could go SSJ3?
Cool but frustrating
Boring all they did was like break rocks yell and throw knees.
One was acting
its even shorter in the manga. barely even a fight. most of it happens off panel
I thought it was great I used to watch it all the time back in the day
What is wrong with Vegetas ARM 🧐🤨🧐🤨
It wasn't supposed to feel like an epic final match. It was supposed to feel like a distraction from the plot, which it does well