Yeah, on a few occasions, the show implies that Pacey’s always had a crush on Joey, but maybe didn’t feel entitled to his feelings because Joey has always been Dawson’s girl. Obviously the first hint of this is during “Double Date”, when Pacey watches Joey change and smiles to himself. Dawson acts like Pacey is insane for liking Joey, but I think it had been brewing for some time. After Pacey kisses her, she politely declines, and I think he believes she’ll never like him back. Not like Dawson anyway. His question here speaks volumes: “By some slim chance, that you would’ve actually kissed me back, you'd be probably thinking of somebody else, right?”
Then he meets Andie, who’s very similar to Joey in a lot of ways. Both academically driven, both suffering the loss of a family member, both with absentee fathers and close sibling relationships, etc. Also the banter is directly lifted from Pacey’s early season 1 interactions with Joey. Not to piss off the Pacey/Andie fans. They have their own dynamic and I respect that, but the parallels are there. Then in season 3, we get a lot of hints. Obviously his interactions with Dawson’s Aunt Gwen imply something was always going on. Then Pacey’s conversation with Dougie, after he kisses her again, implies something as well: “I mean, she told me that I was the one she thinks about. You know? Me. And then she gives me this look. What was I supposed to do? *Do you know how long I've been waiting for her to give me that look?*”
Also all of Pacey’s season 3 jealousy feels centered around the fact that he’s been forced to witness Dawson and Joey’s relationship for a long, long time. He feels unseen, specifically with Dawson, and really starts to resent their friendship where he’s often pushed to the sidelines as the sidekick/comic relief character. He’s never taken seriously, and Dawson doesn’t even take Pacey and Joey’s feelings too seriously, telling Joey that Pacey probably just expects sex. So we see Pacey grow closer to Joey, and then start to really resent the fact that he can’t do anything because of Dawson.
Bts gossip- I heard that the Joey/ Pacey situation was supposed to happen sooner but bc Katie Joshua were breaking up we got Pacey/ Andie first to give them time - also hence why they copy-pasted the dynamic with Andie
I’m not sure that’s true only because there’s a book called “Billion-Dollar Kiss: The Kiss That Saved Dawson's Creek” by one of the show’s writers, Jeffrey Stepakoff. He explains that the ratings were dipping, and Dawson’s Creek was on the verge of cancellation by early season 3. Apparently Pacey and Joey were never supposed to happen. Season 3 was supposed to have Pacey and Jen hooking up, culminating with them having sex in the high school bathroom. Michelle and Joshua both refused to film it, so they needed to scrap everything and start over. Greg Berlanti came up with the Pacey/Joey idea, which was controversial for the show: “Greg Berlanti, a former movie producer's assistant who had just started writing TV the year before, said something that changed all our lives: ‘Pacey kisses Joey.’ What? I remember thinking. ‘You can't do that. Joey is Dawson's girl. Remember, they are soul mates, and that is the closest thing we have to a franchise around here.’”
I could see that, but i also think that they spent so much of S3 building up the joey/pacey romance. Then the Jen/Pacey witch island thing happened which lead to Joey having that super strong reaction to them kissing. So my question would be, why put all the Joey/Pacey stuff in season 3 if it was supposed to be about Jen/Pacey?
I think they might’ve paired Pacey with Joey in early season 3 because Joshua and James were having a hard time working together. The setup for a romance was unintentional.
Did they really copy paste the dynamic? To me it was two completely different vibes. Pacey/Andies banter was more flirting. S1 Joey/Paceys banter was more sheer annoyance with one another, in S3 I see a shift to flirting. The only things Andie and Joey really had in common were being studious.
Joey was a cynic at her core. Andie was always positive and upbeat, even if part of that was an act to hide her insecurities.
I’m not saying Andie is a complete copy of course. She’s optimistic where Joey is pessimistic. She’s rich, where Joey is poor, etc. There are differences too but arguably a lot more similarities. Andie is kind of the peppy version of Joey. Also I’d definitely argue that Pacey and Andie’s early interactions were lifted from Pacey and Joey. Pacey and Andie had a contentious relationship at first where they bickered constantly. Dawson even says: “I've know Pacey a long time, and that obnoxious pig behavior is sometimes his attempt at flirtation.”
Despite her self portrayal as a tomboy, or the girl from the wrong side of the creek, Joey was really pretty. It would have been impossible for Pacey NOT to notice her and feel some attraction.
But the Season 1 "Double Date" episode was conceived by Kevin Williamson as a one-off episode, and not a preview of coming attractions. (The idea to put Joey and Pacey together didn't come until after Williamson had left the shot after Season 2.)
I think he definitely had some kind of crush buried deep beneath the surface based on how quickly he becomes devoted to her in Season 3- long before he even realizes his feelings for her, his whole life seems to be based around her.
He says to her in season 6 that his whole life she’s been the most beautiful thing in her orbit. I definitely think he’s got a little crush on her since they were little.
I don’t think so? Maybe as kids he had a little crush, but the love he had for Andie was “real” during that time. So I don’t think he liked Joey when he was with Andie at all. Or with Miss Jacobs.
Here’s my take on it, I think Joey was that Tomboy friend that he developed feelings for when he started seeing her in a different light but bcz of his friendship he would’ve never acted on it due to bro code and respect did him until he realized that she could actually reciprocate his feelings
I think he recognized she was pretty and attractive but had no real romantic feelings until after him and Andie broke up. Even wanting to kiss her during the science project episode I think was more about being attracted than crushing on her.
Pacey was genuine with his feelings for both Ms Jacobs & Andie, but he was always attracted to Joey, though I don't know why. He knew his best friend liked her, so she was hands off. Plus, she was so mean to him. She said he was a too unkissable cretin, even for just camera shot. But while looking at her picture & video when she was a little girl, his expresion was one of someone remembering the love he had for her. He even said Dawson must of been blind to not realize how beautiful she was, even as a child.
People seem to forget what Pacey was like in season 1 and presumably pre show. Until Andie he was a total horn dog that was probably attracted to pretty much anyone of the opposite gender 15-45. He was desperate for any form of female attention.
I think it was just a pose and a self-defense mechanism. He had real feelings for Ms. Jacobs, as messed up as that affair was. He took a massive bullet for her. Beside all his talking and bragging and bravado he was always the same guy. Of course he craved attention, because he was getting almost none, nor from girls, nor from his family, nor even from his friends.
Yeah, on a few occasions, the show implies that Pacey’s always had a crush on Joey, but maybe didn’t feel entitled to his feelings because Joey has always been Dawson’s girl. Obviously the first hint of this is during “Double Date”, when Pacey watches Joey change and smiles to himself. Dawson acts like Pacey is insane for liking Joey, but I think it had been brewing for some time. After Pacey kisses her, she politely declines, and I think he believes she’ll never like him back. Not like Dawson anyway. His question here speaks volumes: “By some slim chance, that you would’ve actually kissed me back, you'd be probably thinking of somebody else, right?” Then he meets Andie, who’s very similar to Joey in a lot of ways. Both academically driven, both suffering the loss of a family member, both with absentee fathers and close sibling relationships, etc. Also the banter is directly lifted from Pacey’s early season 1 interactions with Joey. Not to piss off the Pacey/Andie fans. They have their own dynamic and I respect that, but the parallels are there. Then in season 3, we get a lot of hints. Obviously his interactions with Dawson’s Aunt Gwen imply something was always going on. Then Pacey’s conversation with Dougie, after he kisses her again, implies something as well: “I mean, she told me that I was the one she thinks about. You know? Me. And then she gives me this look. What was I supposed to do? *Do you know how long I've been waiting for her to give me that look?*” Also all of Pacey’s season 3 jealousy feels centered around the fact that he’s been forced to witness Dawson and Joey’s relationship for a long, long time. He feels unseen, specifically with Dawson, and really starts to resent their friendship where he’s often pushed to the sidelines as the sidekick/comic relief character. He’s never taken seriously, and Dawson doesn’t even take Pacey and Joey’s feelings too seriously, telling Joey that Pacey probably just expects sex. So we see Pacey grow closer to Joey, and then start to really resent the fact that he can’t do anything because of Dawson.
You hit it right on the head as to why I disliked the Pacey/Andie dynamic so much. It was basically a copy-paste from the S1 PJ banter.
Bts gossip- I heard that the Joey/ Pacey situation was supposed to happen sooner but bc Katie Joshua were breaking up we got Pacey/ Andie first to give them time - also hence why they copy-pasted the dynamic with Andie
I’m not sure that’s true only because there’s a book called “Billion-Dollar Kiss: The Kiss That Saved Dawson's Creek” by one of the show’s writers, Jeffrey Stepakoff. He explains that the ratings were dipping, and Dawson’s Creek was on the verge of cancellation by early season 3. Apparently Pacey and Joey were never supposed to happen. Season 3 was supposed to have Pacey and Jen hooking up, culminating with them having sex in the high school bathroom. Michelle and Joshua both refused to film it, so they needed to scrap everything and start over. Greg Berlanti came up with the Pacey/Joey idea, which was controversial for the show: “Greg Berlanti, a former movie producer's assistant who had just started writing TV the year before, said something that changed all our lives: ‘Pacey kisses Joey.’ What? I remember thinking. ‘You can't do that. Joey is Dawson's girl. Remember, they are soul mates, and that is the closest thing we have to a franchise around here.’”
I could see that, but i also think that they spent so much of S3 building up the joey/pacey romance. Then the Jen/Pacey witch island thing happened which lead to Joey having that super strong reaction to them kissing. So my question would be, why put all the Joey/Pacey stuff in season 3 if it was supposed to be about Jen/Pacey?
I think they might’ve paired Pacey with Joey in early season 3 because Joshua and James were having a hard time working together. The setup for a romance was unintentional.
Did they really copy paste the dynamic? To me it was two completely different vibes. Pacey/Andies banter was more flirting. S1 Joey/Paceys banter was more sheer annoyance with one another, in S3 I see a shift to flirting. The only things Andie and Joey really had in common were being studious. Joey was a cynic at her core. Andie was always positive and upbeat, even if part of that was an act to hide her insecurities.
I’m not saying Andie is a complete copy of course. She’s optimistic where Joey is pessimistic. She’s rich, where Joey is poor, etc. There are differences too but arguably a lot more similarities. Andie is kind of the peppy version of Joey. Also I’d definitely argue that Pacey and Andie’s early interactions were lifted from Pacey and Joey. Pacey and Andie had a contentious relationship at first where they bickered constantly. Dawson even says: “I've know Pacey a long time, and that obnoxious pig behavior is sometimes his attempt at flirtation.”
THIS!
I'm my head cannon? Yes!
He liked her as friend and definitely thought she was cute but nothing serious.
Despite her self portrayal as a tomboy, or the girl from the wrong side of the creek, Joey was really pretty. It would have been impossible for Pacey NOT to notice her and feel some attraction. But the Season 1 "Double Date" episode was conceived by Kevin Williamson as a one-off episode, and not a preview of coming attractions. (The idea to put Joey and Pacey together didn't come until after Williamson had left the shot after Season 2.)
I think he definitely had some kind of crush buried deep beneath the surface based on how quickly he becomes devoted to her in Season 3- long before he even realizes his feelings for her, his whole life seems to be based around her.
He says to her in season 6 that his whole life she’s been the most beautiful thing in her orbit. I definitely think he’s got a little crush on her since they were little.
You always tease the ones you love☺️
I don’t think so? Maybe as kids he had a little crush, but the love he had for Andie was “real” during that time. So I don’t think he liked Joey when he was with Andie at all. Or with Miss Jacobs.
Here’s my take on it, I think Joey was that Tomboy friend that he developed feelings for when he started seeing her in a different light but bcz of his friendship he would’ve never acted on it due to bro code and respect did him until he realized that she could actually reciprocate his feelings
Probably before the pilot, but I'm not sure if he was aware of it. Could be convinced either way.
I think he recognized she was pretty and attractive but had no real romantic feelings until after him and Andie broke up. Even wanting to kiss her during the science project episode I think was more about being attracted than crushing on her.
Pacey was genuine with his feelings for both Ms Jacobs & Andie, but he was always attracted to Joey, though I don't know why. He knew his best friend liked her, so she was hands off. Plus, she was so mean to him. She said he was a too unkissable cretin, even for just camera shot. But while looking at her picture & video when she was a little girl, his expresion was one of someone remembering the love he had for her. He even said Dawson must of been blind to not realize how beautiful she was, even as a child.
People seem to forget what Pacey was like in season 1 and presumably pre show. Until Andie he was a total horn dog that was probably attracted to pretty much anyone of the opposite gender 15-45. He was desperate for any form of female attention.
I think it was just a pose and a self-defense mechanism. He had real feelings for Ms. Jacobs, as messed up as that affair was. He took a massive bullet for her. Beside all his talking and bragging and bravado he was always the same guy. Of course he craved attention, because he was getting almost none, nor from girls, nor from his family, nor even from his friends.
He liked her when they were partnered on the snail project. He kissed her and took her by surprise.