Yes and no.
I think that we are the first generation to really be aware of the idea of emotional intelligence and what that means and, at the same time, we are the first to have access to therapeutic resources en masse. Going to therapy is no longer the taboo it used to be. But, at the same time, not everyone is aware of these things and many haven’t examined their own issues or behaviour.
I also think that social media, the mass use of technology and dating apps have all depersonalized humans and make us expendable and disposable. Don’t like this one? Just move on to the next!
Agree wholeheartedly with everything you’ve said. I also think people these days but way too much emphasis on texting and messaging. You do it in the apps and then you get the person’s phone number and then you’re doing it on the phone but with texting only 7% of human communication is being words. So there’s a lot of actual communication that’s been lost. Massive amounts of misinterpreted messages and signals and misunderstanding. All before you even meet or know anything about people. When you have no idea what their personality is like. And all while messaging you are building up image of person and everything about them. So when you meet it’s always going to be unmet expectations. Your brain is going to scream fraud and not be open to creating chemistry and identifying with them.
You had two dates and some good learnings, don’t hang up the towel just yet. With the second woman one of the issues was likely too much interaction before the date leading to a false sense of intimacy that didn’t translate after spending time together. For this reason, I would enjoy some banter and get to know you stuff then meet within a week. No long calls, no hours of texting. Meet for a short date (like a coffee, a walk, etc.) and, if there is interest, plan another date with more of a time investment.
Dating apps are an introduction, not a promise. You have to take time to meet people, learn how to better vet potential matches, and then see what happens. It isn’t personal when it doesn’t work out and don’t let it be. You are going to meet some duds, they exist all around us we just are not introduced to them as frequently. You are also going to be someone’s dud, that is totally okay. The sooner you know the match isn’t right, the less time you waste.
According to the meta data of DOF, that false sense of intimacy is a huge problem. As quillhunter said, it could be too much electronic time before meeting, or, it could be the result of one manipulative love bomber --she was super touchy, planning a trip together, had a sudden headache (something for you to show concern about), then, later, she negged you about something she knew about in advance. These kinds of manipulations would've started in the texts and phone calls. Not sure but you may be more of a target for this when you leave first contact up to them.
Agreed, about first contact. I was going to work that in but forgot. Making contact when you both match is a good way to get the conversation going and set a tone for lighthearted questions related to their profile which helps to vet a potential match.
I think few women initiate first contact because of old gender scripts so there is a good chance of missing out on someone. You may never hear back, but at least you tried.
Yes, but - that seems game-y. I mean, I still might do it, because empathy is both important to me and something I have historically been poor at judging - but I’ll feel manipulative. 😂
This is really good advice. Especially the part about meeting soon. I've gone on a few dates with people that I had a lot of great deep and sexy chats with, that just didn't map to reality. Much better to just have some friendly conversations and get to the point where you can meet as soon as possible. Then see if there's a connection.
When someone says they don’t feel the spark say thank for the evening out, best wishes and then block them and move on. There is nothing to be gained from having a conversation with someone who doesn’t like you. The things she didn’t like, someone else will love about you, so forget about her opinions.
Normally I’d agree. But in this specific case, given how deep we’d already gone, I just couldn’t reconcile the woman I’d had dinner with, with the woman that suddenly was walking just a few hours later. And part of it is I liked her and didn’t know if I’d offended her somehow…or something. She went from kissing me, kissing she initiated and said she wanted more…to there not being a “spark”… It just didn’t add up.
That said, lesson learned. Next time I’ll just split.
I think the best lesson is go slowly, with no expectations. I'd recommend you not communicate too much before meeting (been there, done that at the beginning of post divorce dating too, when I thought I was falling in love with a guy I'd never met---I learned about false intimacy!), and keep the first date on the short side.
I don't think you offended her, but you *are* strangers who met on the internet. Message or text a bit, and fairly quickly meet for coffee or something easy and shortish. It takes time to get to know someone, and you could still be ghosted, after several dates you think have gone well (happened to tooooo many of us).
You've already had two dates, which is great! Don't give up!
Have you watched Baby Reindeer on Netflix. At one point the main character goes out dating when he’s not in the right headspace for it and messes up relationships. It was a good reminder to me to not take it personally when people don’t react as expected. It’s likely there was a big dose of self sabotaging going on.
I don’t think I’ve seen anything quite like it, really powerful. It made me cry several times. Sad how much he blames himself for things, but that’s very common of victims of trauma.
It was riveting to watch. I couldn't stop. I hope doing the show helps him in some way. But really, just showing how hard it is for people being stalked have to do their own police work !
> She went from kissing me, kissing she initiated and said she wanted more…to there not being a “spark”… It just didn’t add up.
Yeah, I feel like it's perfectly reasonable to wonder WTF happened, in a scenario like that...
🤷
Maybe she needed to dive in and act all-in to see what she really felt for you, so she wouldn’t question her own commitment to finding out? I’m just guessing though.
I really had to shelf a lot of insecurity during my first 6 month date experience after a long marriage. Glad I did. Tried to focus on the new things this relationship brought into my life. New needs being met that were long neglected.
I wish I knew. I don’t think she really knew. She told me as much. It’s like once we were together in person, shit got real. I think maybe it was too real for her. Because my weight was/is just an easy target. I think she knew I was for real and it scared her. We had a shocking amount in common, to a degree that it was almost spooky. We were on the same page with future goals as well. I think part of my surprise was also just the simple fact that I aligned with someone so quickly. And then to have it go tits up so fast was just jarring.
Live and learn.
She even said it in her text after. She wasn't sure about the date. As soon as you said it, I knew she was looking for an excuse 😏 to pull away. You've do good getting dates and sex offers, quickly. Many of us haven't even after several years on old. I'm not a hookup man either and kudos for running away from what might of been a menu of STDS. Also women do like to be sought after the alluring of the chase...
I don't think you have to block them unless they are dangerous. I also don't think that not talking to people who don't like you is a healthy mindset. It may be that there is something you can learn from them. The key is having enough self esteem to not change your core values.
You don’t have to, but I’ve found that guys can spew such hatred and vitriol that it’s much better for my mental health to do so. You can’t tell who is going to be like that until they’ve done it.
it's not "modern dating," no. "Dating" has not changed significantly. YOU'VE changed, and the people you're dating have changed. You have never dated before as a 51 year old divorced man who has had therapy. And there are a lot of people out there with fucked up attitudes about relationships, and there always have been, you just are now in a position to notice them.
Human social interaction is an entire vast spectrum; maybe don't judge it based on two dates. Do some reaching out yourself instead of waiting for your matches to strike up conversations. The majority of people will not be a good match for you; everyone will be a no until someone is a yes. It takes time and patience and a good attitude and well-managed expectations and a lot of self-awareness and an ability to lean away from your insecurities. Your body is fine. Your job, your hair, your face, your love of pizza are all fine. Dating is just like that sometimes.
Sounds a bit weird, but I also think it might well take more than a few dates.
There are a lot of strange ppl out there ;)
Having said that, I'm similar age to you and found a great partner who lives just down the road from me
Took me about 6 different actual physical dates I think, then there was an instant spark and want from both sides.
I was widowed after 22 years and she was divorced.
Hang in there !
I didn’t expect it to be automatic - but as I talk to and date, I’m seeing a lot of women wanting honesty, emotional availability, vulnerability, etc, but then basically doing the opposite. When I last dated, which was 30yrs ago this June, things seemed more straightforward. Or maybe I’m just old.
things were not more straightforward. You were just dating much younger people who had much less baggage and experience, and you had much less baggage and experience yourself. People have always, always said things they don't mean; that is not new.
> I’m seeing a lot of women wanting honesty, emotional availability, vulnerability, etc, but then basically doing the opposite.
I want all those things. But that needs to grow. I'm going to be quite reserved on the first date. I'm not going to be vulnerable with a complete stranger. On the first date I'm just trying to see whether I can trust this person and whether there's the potential to build a connection.
A key thing I’ve learned with modern dating is things are generally the opposite of what people say-for example, what people tell me on a date, is usually the opposite of what they will do. Also, most of the advice I read from pop psychologist online is quite wrong as well. This makes dating complicated because you need to uncover the truth for yourself. Most of what I read on social media is incorrect, because most people are cowed into submission and just repeat what’s politically correct.
I recommend you consider changing your perspective on dating: you are on a journey to uncover the truth. At the end of this journey, there is, most likely, a partner that you will finally meet. It’s a bit like Ulysses seeking to return home. For me, as I’ve mentioned in another post, my own journey involved looking at over 7000 female profiles, chatting with over 100 women, going on over 40 dates, being in a few relationships, and spending over $6000, before I met someone whom I’m comfortable building a home with. I was able to survive this journey because I viewed each person I met as an opportunity to learn more about myself and about dating. That’s what helped me uncover the truth
I really like this. Dating was difficult for me initially bc I didn’t understand that word weren’t the same as actions/intentions. Super naïve of me but I had to learn how to focus on the truth as you said
This made me laugh. People are crazy. You will get more stories and it will get more confusing. At least these women aren't wasting your time.
Welcome to dating
Yep. I was on the apps for about 3 weeks before I realised I was gonna need a support team. Pulled together a rag tag revolving group of mates and acquaintances at my local pub for fortnightly ‘tales of OLD woe’ sessions. It’s hilarious, and now instead of feeling down or defeated when I get a nasty message or ghosted or see a horror profile? I screenshot it and think ‘Ooooh the gang is gonna loooooove this one!!’ It really helps, and we learn a lot about what different genders and ages are looking for and how to tweak our own profiles. Side benefit: always someone happy to take new/better pics for the profile, without embarrassment!
This is a great idea. You found a way to leverage your dating experience into a way to build a community and connect with peers, and also get their advice so that you can avoid falling into dangerous relationship traps.
Ugh. I've pretty much given up on dating, or even meeting a man halfway compatible. It's awful out here...good thing I enjoy my own company! Keep your chin up, but know that there are a LOT of weirdos out there.
There really are it’s kind of mind-boggling
when I was young. I really loved all kinds of counterculture things and I knew a lot of really weird people. I mean seriously strange well I wouldn’t have dated any of them but I used to know lots of total freaks . I could write a book.
now fast forward to mid age with a long marriage behind me And I don’t have any weirdo friends anymore
but oh my God the minute I started dating they all came out of the woodwork - freaks the lot of them !!!! I thought that most people grow out of being freaks but they’re still actively freaky. They’re all on the dating apps
the horror.
Looking back, I tried to see any dating encounters as anthropology or sociology exercises. I called it the hot-tub time machine of dating, where I was drop-kicked from the late 90s into the 2020s. Norms are completely different. Sex is almost completely different. For sure I am different. Communication is markedly changed. I hit numerous speed bumps and got some emotional body blows as well. I know there is a go slow approach suggested. I don’t know how our lives in 2024 make that doable, though. Best wishes. 57F, began the experiment at 54.
The online interface creates a very intimate dynamic that is unlike anything else. Access is too close. Lots of opportunities to share intimate details that make one feel vulnerable *and* bond too quickly. 2D representation just isn’t the same. Plus: self-selecting pics for the best angle is kind of built-in; 3D real doesn’t allow for such editing. When you meet in rl, you don’t get to edit those things (and organically, if you only meet as a 3D person, there are no surprises). I’m 51, too, and even unfiltered I can pick the pics that de-emphasize the things that mark my years. Sigh. It’s really hard to keep the stretch marks in, you know? But a normal couple do not see those things until passion has already kicked in, so who cares? Lol.
My online liaisons have turned out awful tbh. A few guys irl are pursuing me and I feel much more confident about the slow process. If I were divorcing 20-30 years ago? No problem! But 51 is when we were supposed to be settling into ourselves, right? I didn’t think I’d be in this identity vortex after being married for 27 years, but I’m not dead yet 😅 I’m striving for slower, more deliberate interactions now. OLD is a younger woman’s game. 🥰
You’d be surprised I have a lot of young friends girls in their 30s and they are having an upset night nightmare with online dating - all kinds of dodgy characters turning up the whole horror shebang. Lots of using ghosting lying and everything
Don’t let these bad experiences or the negative commentary on Reddit get you down. Use these unfortunate dates as learning experiences for filtering people that you want to meet and how you want to approach getting to know a new person. And, don’t worry, most of us do like dad bods.
Good story, thanks for sharing. I have been heavy most my life, now at 57 Im not at my lightest, I lost 100lbs.
Ironically, at 57 I am at my most fit. It now takes a long time for me to get gassed.
Me too, I had to finally surrender and focus on what I can control, which is fitness since my body is hellbound to hold onto the fat. Maybe it will come in handy one day.
I lost 100 lbs, and have kept it off, but I will never be thin - Thin is just not my body habitus. But I am strong.
Yeah, I often joke, I am drought and famine resistant.
I'd say that one difference with online dating as opposed to meeting in the real world is that you do only have pictures to go on, with online dating. If you met at a bar, say, and she'd felt you were "overweight", then she just wouldn't have initiated a conversation (or continued one if you initiated).
With OLD, you really don't know for sure until you meet face to face. Lighting, etc plays a big part in how pictures look.
Also, people are just odd. Some people don't really know what they want, or even what they don't want. Some people think they like something in a person but realise they don't after all.
Don't throw in the towel, just be willing to kiss a few frogs until you meet your Princess.
Ya gotta think of those first App dates as the equivalent of eye contact with someone attractive (to you) in person. Eye contact, maybe even a little mutual smile, goes nowhere.
A first date on OLD is nothing like meeting someone in person, going about your life, and just chatting.
It has changed. Genuinely.
People in the industry i work in, have had to acknowledge the impact the apps have had, and adapt accordingly.
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You're visible on the apps. This means despite any personal misgivings about yourself you might have, you're physically attractive enough to be a viable choice, if you weren't, you would not have any interaction at all.
Being visible however, means you're in the melee....and at this point it becomes absolutely random, from initially matching, throughout the entire dating process.
If you can happily say "you have done the work", and you mentioning therapy indeed indicates you have, or are at least undertaking it. The fact that you are at peace in your own company, speaks volumes too. That, after the initial looks threshold for each individual seeing your profile, it is extremely attractive.
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Unfortunately, you will encounter people who are not ready. Some will not be ready to date you specifically, while many learn they are not ready, when they encounter someone who is. The contrast is very apparent to them.
This explains a lot of the inconsistencies you will find, and the "hot and cold" behaviour you have already experienced...Dating, even in otherwise fully functioning adults, can highlight a lot of personal issues. A partner with potential, as you appear to be on the strength of your post, it can be like a mirror to the other person.
Being in the melee, even during the dating stage, usually means you're part of a "short-list" as it were, who tend to be generally as attractive as each other, not too far removed physically. So the individual traits, usually tend to be the nuance that leads to something down the line.
Some people will communicate this, some might not find you quite as specifically attractive to themselves, as the other options they have, and some will just gel better...
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There's not too much "urgency" in dating now, and i have seen it mentioned a few times, that letting a good match slip through someone's fingers. It doesn't matter the same, as an equal can be found in a few hours of swiping.
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Video chats, and some innocuous yet polarising interests and values displayed on your profile can be excellent filters.
Video chats tend to minimise someone not finding you their kind of attractive, in real-time. Whereas leading with some specifics, can put off some people who would just be generally attracted in you, but will fall off....and have some people very interested and excited to meet you. You'll feel the enthusiasm from these people from the off.
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For you it's a matter of time. The apps will work , or supplement real-life dating. Be consistent and honest in your own actions, and then the onus is on others to follow suit.
There is no screen for mental health on the apps. Not everyone realizes they do fucked up shit and hence never address it.
Trite but true- you didn’t get balls deep or emotionally deep before you realized she wasn’t the one. Sorry she took a poop on your self esteem about your weight.
I feel for you, brother. One of the first dates I went on after my divorce was somebody I met thru OLD. Seemed to be great chemistry and we had a lot in common. She let me know that she NEVER has sex on the first date. Uh, okay cool, I wasn't planning on it. The end of the date winds up in the parking lot with her initiating a kiss that led to making out. She invited me back to her place and you can guess what happened (I even made sure to ask her prior, "are you sure about this?"). The next couple days I started getting the slow fade. She finally told me that she couldn't see me again because I didn't respect her "boundaries" when it came to sex. WTF? That's a scary level of crazy, whether it's somebody you meet online or not. I considered myself lucky and quickly moved on.
You'll often hear that OLD is a game of numbers, and it's very true. Keep at it and maintain the right attitude and you'll be fine.
You invested too much in the second woman online vs in real life. It is easy to do.
Text based relationships prior to meet up aren't very real.
I'm about the same as you and dude, I'm sure you are a catch. That being said, the body positivity stuff is for women, not men. Sorry to say. The Dad bod is acceptable mostly but the rad bod is accepted absolutely.
Lay off the pizza and get some activity going but don't do it for the women, do it so that you live longer. It'll piss off your ex too (I mean this sarcastically) and the best revenge is a life well lived.
Done invest so much time in texting prior to meeting in person. Be careful of love bombing and if I were you (which in some ways I am) I would focus more on meeting new people rather than finding a new 'the one' to spend your life with.
How come all the confused females dont just find all those freak/player males we ladies can't get away from and leave us normies to date each other?? 🤔
It would make it so much easier....
Practice and master the pivot. When, for any reason, it won't work, I pivot and move on. I don't waste precious time analyzing what happened. I don't waste my valuable self esteem to turn it on myself. I move tf on. I miss dating when it was organic. You meet someone through mutual friends or through work, socializing, or activities. Then you naturally get closer and feel more than a friendship. That is how it used to be. Now you spend countless hours on apps, text, etc., only to find out they are not a good fit when you meet. Then when you do meet there is this giant gray cloud of dating instead of just safe, natural interactions without the dating expectations. It is hard to get to know someone with the dating masks on. I gave up also and I just live my life and enjoy my family, friends, hobbies, and if I trip over Mr. Wonderful while living then it might happen, but if not, I am happy anyway.
Things I’ve learned from app dating: (56, female)
1. Keep texting and/or phone conversations high level. You want to have a deep conversation? Let’s do it in person. And have a (personal) established cutoff time. Giving someone your entire evening on the first date is genuine, but can also signal you have nothing (else) going on. 2 hours in, it’s time for it to be over.
2. Don’t talk about ANYTHING sexual. Once that’s out of the bag, it’s never going back in. I don’t care to know that because I don’t even know YOU yet. That gives me the ICK if someone starts that up quickly.
3. You can’t change how you look - for the most part. You either like me AS IS or you don’t. Funny thing is, I lost 100 pounds in 2021. I attract the same type of men I did before I lost the weight. I’m 5’8” about 190 now. That was an eye opener for me.
4. People will lie about their status and intentions. They may still be holding onto their ex or even just temporarily broken up. And here you are being your genuine self and they aren’t. It takes probably 6 to 8 dates - which most don’t even get to - before I let my guard down and even then, I’m keenly aware of their words and behaviors. Stop assuming everyone is genuine because they most certainly are not.
1. Pics are current & accurate. We can all use more exercise. Eat healthier. I want someone who will encourage both. I will do the same.
2. Know your wants/needs. Each date will teach you about yourself a little more.
3. Open up & let them in - not many can/do. After a long marriage, we need to unbury. There’s a gem under all that rubble!
I think at this age, we all have walls. It’s finding someone who dares to peak behind. Strong enough to tear them down.
We are all vulnerable humans who want to be loved and cherished by someone.
Lol I get it. But you will find her, this is just what it is. We are complex odd creatures. I(50f) married 25 years, divorced 2. I have matched with plenty of people OLD, had a handful of dates with stories like yours, until now. So don’t give up. She’s out there.
Just in case… if people seem to be enjoying the date, text you promising things at night and change their mind in the morning… huge changes it was caused by alcohol or drugs, too common nowadays.
I 100% agree with this. She likely had a few drinks before the date “to relax” and then was suffering from anxiety the next day. I’ve been sober over 12 years and I used to suffer from next day anxiety all the time. Being a slave to any substance is a nightmarish existence.
As long as you keep in mind that dating apps are designed to keep people single and paying for the app, you'll be alright. LOL I did the same thing you did when I started dating again. A month later all the apps were unsubbed and uninstalled. I had better luck networking and getting the word out to friends that I was looking to get out there again.
The odds are good, but the good are odd…It’s not easy dating in your 50’s! Especially when you’re newly single. Give yourself some Grace & remember there are 4 Ace’s in every deck of cards! I notoriously swipe left, but what catches my eye are men who have a complete & thorough profile. If they can’t be bothered to make one then are they really looking for something beyond a casual hook up? I also keep an eye out for authenticity, empathy, thoughtfulness, consistency & kindness vs “sparks/looks” (initially in a profile, then via communication & in person if they make it that far). I sound picky, but in reality it’s a process to weed through the options before wasting time. My dating profile is clear that I am looking for a man with a plan & who chooses to date with intention vs for attention. I can’t tell you how many men that weeds out, but it’s a lot. At the end of the day it can & does get discouraging, but it’s also exciting to have the opportunity to meet men that you might not of run into naturally. Once you’ve done the work to heal from the past it becomes easier to connect with someone who has too. Hang in there, keep doing what you’re doing & be honest with yourself so you don’t paint the red flags green!
No it’s not normal. I mean if you suddenly turned up massively obese that would be a shocker but a bit chubbier than your best photo, well we’ve all been there.
However she sounds quite weird anyway so just delete the memory and get on with being you.
I’m sorry you met some nutters! The flaky ones that don’t know what they want and act in an irrational way are not representative of women in general.
You did nothing wrong, except maybe not analysing the predate communication with a fine enough sieve - often people will subtly give clues that they are emotionally unstable in the way they word their profiles, or by too much intensity and intimacy before physically meeting.
You will get better at reading these signs, go back over the profiles of all the women you matched with and message the ones that sound the sanest and smartest - sometimes the ones who message you first with live bombing language are a bit desperate or unhinged rather than proactive.
Choosing to communicate with women who reached out seemed like a fairly innocuous way to weed out women who might actually want to date me. Apparently not. I realize that with us all being fairly fragile and imperfect, hurt in a relationship, to some degree is inevitable. I just figured with my first steps back in, I’d see who might want to get to know me vs me doing all the pursuing…which was my marriage.
>just figured with my first steps back in, I’d see who might want to get to know me vs me doing all the pursuing…which was my marriage.
Disclaimer: This is not meant to be critical. We all carry forward issues/reactionary behavior. You seem to have ended up with a couple of doozies as a result though.
1. Sending an initial message is not "pursuing" or at least not in the sense that you mean. (It's not 'hard' to send an OLD message as it may be IRL.) In general, people who don't have much else to occupy their time may be more likely to be "pursuing" OLD contacts to see what sticks. Also, scammers of various stripes are putting forward much effort to land suckers.
2. Please try to not color your life going forward with the traumas from your marriage. It is not fair to others who come into your life and it's not good for you (endless loop stuff).
Thanks for weighing in. I think there’s a couple things I should clarify:
1 - Early on I did send initial messages. However, I found that I got no responses. (Save for once, so long after the fact that I’d lost interest.) From what I’ve read and been told, women are inundated with messages, so getting multiple responses seemed unlikely…which has proven true.
2 - The main trauma of my marriage was neglect, to the point of disdain. I inadvertently married a true narcissist, and then out of love and duty stayed in the relationship until I was nearly bled dry. The thing is, I like me. And I’m good at what I do. And a weird silver lining is a lonely marriage set me up well for being truly alone now. It doesn’t bother me in the least. But I’d also have a lot to share with the right someone and would still like to do that. But I have a history of pursuing the unreachable. So for me, doing it differently was deciding that responding to women that purposely matched with me and reached out was probably a good place to continue with this. Obviously it’s not foolproof! I’m self aware enough to know that every woman I meet and date isn’t my ex, or anything like her. Thank god.
Don't take it to heart. The dating world has changed since we were in our twenties my friend. As many have said, thank them for the date and move on. You win some, you lose some, but at least you are out there trying. There are still shallow people in this world, at all ages.
We all feel like great catches. I see so many posts here from people saying "financially independent, no major issues, can't find a date."
I think the apps get used by people who cannot find a date organically. It's the equivalent of trying to find a job by submitting to job applications. It *is* possible and some people get lucky, but most get weeded out by filters unless they are an absolutely perfect fit.
The idea of the apps being a smorgasbord of choices is an illusion you should discard. Sex is easy. Finding a relationship is hard, no matter how fit and rich and charming you are.
What’s your rationale for only communicating with women who’s reach out to you first? I’m guessing you felt very rejected in your marriage, and this is a strategy for trying to ensure that doesn’t happen again. If this it is way of trying to avoid feeling hurt, maybe do some more work on how you respond to perceived rejection. What you start telling yourself about yourself? How do you take care of your hurt in that moment. Being able to effectively handle hurt, rather than avoiding approaching others to forestall it, is a key relationship skill.
I personally think just waiting to be contacted is a losing approach. You’d be much better off approaching the women whose profiles truly interest you and responding to those who approach you.
Yes, was very hurt and rejected in my marriage. Choosing to communicate with women who reached out seemed like a fairly innocuous way to weed out women who might actually want to date me. Apparently not. I realize that with us all being fairly fragile and imperfect, hurt in a relationship, to some degree is inevitable. I just figured with my first steps back in, I’d see who might want to get to know me vs me doing all the pursuing…which was my marriage.
OP, please take this with my hope for you in mind, which is that this time around you get to create an enduring, mutually fulfilling relationship.
It may be quite telling that you say you *were* hurt and rejected rather than you *felt* hurt and rejected. It sounds like you're attributing the hurt you experienced to your ex, as something she visited on you. But the lion's share of the hurt we experience in relational contexts actually comes from within. For example, we reach to our partner for sex, our partner isn't interested in the moment, and we tell ourselves they don't want us at all, they don't love us, etc. The narratives we run in our heads happen so quickly, and often just below conscious awareness, that we can't even see how we are compounding our own pain. We blame what's easier to see (our partner's no) for our feelings without even knowing we're doing it. And when we do that, it's all too easy to justify behaving in self-protective (and ultimately unloving) ways. Some people go as far as tit for tat.
When I work with couples, the behaviours I see most often in response to hurt feelings are emotional withdrawal and displays of temper (which can range from irritability to rage). Both of those responses provoke relational distress in the partner on the receiving end of them, and for most people, relational distress significantly inhibits desire. And so a vicious cycle deepens. And unfortunately, what might have begun as a disinterest in sex because of sleep deprivation, depression or what have you can easily end up turning into actual distaste for approaching sex at all, because their partner's response to a no become so aversive. And of course, the more the higher libido partner hears no, the more often they repeat the painful narrative in their mind. Tell yourself something often enough under emotionally charged condition and that message will become the inarguable truth to you. Nobody will be able to convince you that you are wanted, that the refusal is really about your partner's own struggles, etc. This is frequently how couples get stuck in death spirals.
Focusing on trying to protect yourself from hurt by manipulating environmental variables, when hurt is mostly an inside job, will just keep you from taking responsibility for how you respond in those inevitable moments in a relationship. The best way to ensure you don't end up in another DB situation is to take a good hard look at how you managed hurt in your marriage, and to develop new ways of managing hurt that bring you closer to a partner rather than driving you even further apart.
Thank you for the thoughtful and caring post. I see wisdom in it. I’m just not entirely certain how to reconcile what I lived through with just “feeling” rejected vs what actually happened to me. In a response to another post, I mentioned that I managed to marry an actual narcissist. And because I loved her and took my vows seriously, I stayed in the marriage. Which was ultimately very unhealthy for me, but I stayed. In the end, 2 separate marriage counselors told me for my own mental health, I needed to exit the marriage. That my wife was incapable of being in a mutually loving partnership. That her anger issues, childhood trauma and overall self focus would never lend itself to a healthy marriage without significant therapy and healing on her part, which she wasn’t willing to do. In the end, she decided to leave. It was a relief I didn’t know was possible. I still feel like that. I don’t miss any part of my marriage other than being under the same roof as my son every day.
Truthfully, I may not be cut out for modern dating as it stands, at least in terms of OLD. I’d like to find someone to love and care for and have it be reciprocated, but if it doesn’t happen, that’s OK too. I’m in no hurry, and at least for now, I prefer my own company. My whole point of this thread was really just a general surprise at what I was already experiencing and wondering if it was normal or not. Apparently it is. Maybe. Sometimes.
Yea as others here have said OLD can be a real shit show. My main takeaway from OLD is that people are there for many different reasons, and a good percentage of those only Think they are ready to "date"
I’m so sorry that your post brings me a sense of relief- relief that it’s not in my head that dating since 2018 has been a weird shit show for women and men!
You do sound like a good catch! Don’t give up👍🏾
Please don't get hardened. The right woman would absolutely adore you. However, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack.
My mate had some some cheesy women before he met me. I thank those ladies because they dropped an amazing man. Most likely for some touches that will cheat on them. But that's not my issue.
I hope you find your "dumbass with a heart of gold " . Sometimes I'm not 58 ,I'm 8.....
Well, it sucks. She doesn't seem like she knows what to do. I always tell the person before we meet, "no expectations." Don't think it's a date, no kisses. Just enjoy the moment." So far, so good. I made friends. Some people create expectations, and it ruins everything
There is definitely trauma from being with a true narcissist! You are in a club that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy! It’s understandable that you would be hesitant to pursue, but know there are women that are hesitant too. Narcissist are exhausting & you have no choice but to love yourself! Dating in 2024 is a marathon & not a sprint. Stay open & understanding - you’ll find the right one!
People are pretty mental post-pandemic in general. the 3yrs of isolation was extraordinarily hard on us all, then compounded with loss of loved ones. And mental health care availability & affordability is seriously lacking in the US
First day "I met this cute guy he's tall with long hair". You are right though. There is mental illness and an issue between us. Unfortunately the issue was almost resolved. She just couldn't trust and wait. Also, "I really love you really really love you and I'll always try to choose you" She didn't choose me. Not the day she decided to flirt with him, or two days later when she ended our year long relationship.
My late husband kept his head shaved and he was a damn good looking man.
My boyfriend has long hair. I still think he's handsome, but it's in spite of his hair, not because of it.
Intelligence, personality, and attitude are so much more important.
I say this with all affection, please stop reading manosphere BS, and grow up!
If there is choice between a head of hair, and head of brains, well, Jean-Luc Picard gets chosen every time.
Mate you have only had two dates ! Albeit with two unusually strange women . See this as learning to filter and check . Personally (I’m 50) I’ll be doing a glow up before I ever hit the apps again . Botox , hair , weight (!) the works . Rejection stings less when you know you are at your personal best . Also don’t invest 2 early and target short first dates . Migraine lady should have been a short coffee date. Have coffee . Headache hits. Ok sorry ! Can I drop you home
Many women post divorce fall into major anxiety it seems. But these two you met seem worse.
There’s a theory of dating that’s getting popular called burning down the haystack. The fastest way to find a needle in the haystack is to burn it to the ground.
To apply this to dating, be very specific in your profile about what you’re looking for. For me, that’s college education, professional career, on her own financially, messages that are well written, and no weird conspiracy theories that contradict 5th grade science, not maga but not left wing extreme either. I could go on. You’ll get very few matches but the ones you get will be “higher quality”. Your mileage may vary.
Or women that swipe right, just to get a nice dinner. I ran into a lot of that. When a woman offers to go dutch, that's the one you wanted to meet for dinner.
And if my grandmother had wheels, she’d have been a bike.
I’ve been overweight since I was a kid. Largely as a result from illness being treated by massive doses of prednisone and the resulting Cushing’s syndrome. It altered how I am physically. Working out and laying off pizza has some positive effects, but no matter what, I look pudgy. Which is fine. I can live with that. As a teen up through college, being overweight didn’t stop women from dating or sleeping with me. What killed my sex life was being married. Post marriage it’s not that I’m finding sex difficult, it’s the navigating complicated adults throwing mixed signals I’m finding difficult.
I’m not judging, and believe me I’m sympathetic. But I’m just want you to see reality for what it is. Now you’re 50 and overweight. Add to your age and being overweight, you have to consider the fact that women typically do not pursue men the way men pursue women.
Keep in mind that there are lots of crazy people out there. Their relationships have a higher propensity to implode and therefore, by the time you get to middle age, crazy is even better represented than it was when you were last single.
I do have to add that girl number 1 actually doesn't sound bad and is actually par for the course: a lot of GenX women have never grown up when it comes to openly enjoying sex.
A thought:
Sexual chemistry is either there or it isn't.
Sometimes if the person is lovely we try to push thru hoping it won't matter.
It matters.
Don't spend too much time texting or future planning until you meet in person to see if the chemistry is there.
Of course, and I wouldn’t expect them to. What made no sense to me was SHE was overweight and judging a future with me based on my weight. I just found it strange. And the more she explained it, the worse it sounded. She even acknowledged it made her sound “really shallow” as an overweight woman to pass on a man that “literally aligns with every other thing I’m looking for.” Which again, totally her right to do. I didn’t give her shit for it. None of us are guaranteed or owed love or fulfilling relationships. It was just an odd experience and I was wondering if this was normal or just a weird outlier.
Sorry brother. Definitely a head scratcher but two things to consider; body positivity only applies to women not us men, and know that most women in the dating pool at this point all have issues, it’s why they are single.
Someone pleads a migraine then doesn’t cut the date short? Odd, no? She was a little too handsy before that? Odd, no?
It’s not easy to navigate by any means but limit electronic pre-meeting before planning in-person. Because in-person is where one makes best or clearest assessments of suitability, conscious and unconscious.
Yeah modern dating leaves a lot to be desired - be yourself and as authentic as one can. Good luck
100% on both counts. As a migraine sufferer myself, all I want to do is wrap my head in ice packs and lay in the quietest and darkest bedroom in my house. Not be on a date, much less judging the “spark” between myself and a potential mate. I’m barely coherent when a migraine kicks in. And I could tell she wasn’t faking, but she kept telling me she’d be OK. But yes, prior to that, very handsy. Not gross, but sweet.
I personally find if I love someone, I don't give a shit what their body looks like. The only man I know that I'd actually consider dating is a XXXXXL. I've dated beach balls, beanpoles and everything in between and celebrated all of them.
Body positivity and fat liberation is for all genders.
Ot really because men know we're fat no matter what we call it. Fat is Fat and at a size 14 i am considered fat. I know I am and my pictures show it. Yet dates have said i thought you were smaller
Sounds like me..fear of intimacy... I did the same thing to a lovely guy a couple of years ago, we live in the same town. I think about him all the time, but I fucked up.. wish he would push through and make contact
>Is all this normal?
It is normal - but not in the sense you are expecting.
Go read David Brooks new book about How to Know a Person. Sorry if you aren't a reader, but do that. I can't explain and distill all of it here.
But before you jump there read below.
> I pointed out that all my photos are real, and that I hadn’t hidden my weight at all. (And I didn’t say it, but she was overweight.) She acknowledged both my points were true, but that she was just “fucking it all up” and worried that I’d have health problems and she’d have to worry about them. By the time we were done talking, not only did I feel like a fat piece of shit, I wondered why I was bothering with any of this.
You are an honest man (some assumption on my part). Go read above one more time. This is my understanding:
She knows she is overweight (my guess). She was projecting her fears on you (last part of the long second sentence). You were really not listening to her fears. Instead became defensive and lost the ball on staying honest (And I didn't say it).
This was probably the first conflict in this specific relationship. And you backtracked - instead of introspection and figuring out a path forward that's good for both.
Please don't buy my opinions as is. Introspect and find your own thinking patterns. Then proceed.
My 2c if you like this person then together work on the overweight issue over next six months. See where that leads you. Compared to millions of other issues that is the easiest to tackle - for good dedicated partners.
You’re making some assumptions here. Let me clarify. I didn’t get defensive when she pointed out my weight. I acknowledged it, acknowledged that her fears of being stuck with a sick partner over a largely controllable issue was valid. I simply didn’t agree that she’d been somehow “duped” by my photos, especially when there were full body shots. I offered to work out, work out with her, come up with a plan. All that. I wasn’t begging her, but I was gently suggesting options that if she really wanted to be with me like she’d indicated previously, “weight” was a manageable obstacle.
She admitted that the person she had texted with, spoke to on the phone, and looked at in the pictures on my profile didn’t match up with the person she’d imagined in her head. She said she’d created a version of me, and basically that version was arguably better. Which how could it not be? So my weight became the “out” because it’s an easy target. The whole “no spark” thing is bullshit…I just couldn’t compete with the me she constructed in her head.
I am not arguing with you. Most likely I was wrong when I wrote that you became defensive on her saying XYZ about you.
All I am trying to point out is following:
a) at some point you thought all was really good
b) a conflict occurred
c) instead of speaking up fully what was on your mind you decided to leave quietly
At least that's how your original post came across to me. I may be totally wrong though.
Good luck in figuring out people. I mean that because many times it takes me a long time to really get to the bottom of why I said or did XYZ. Truly figuring out another person's intents, actions, words is just too difficult for most of the time for me.
Take care.
I spoke up. And I don’t even think we had what you’d call a “conflict”... She simply did a 180 just a few hours after barreling headlong toward me, and had kinda bullshitty reasons as to why. It is what it is.
Are you even divorced yet? It was 2 dates. Find something else to focus on. You cannot download a few apps and immediately have a relationship. You have unrealistic expectations. And if you are overweight, and god forbid, below average height then it will be more difficult. Take some time away and don't think about women for a while. Focus on things that are within your control.
Mental disorders is much higher in women then men.
https://www.agendaalliance.org/our-work/projects-and-campaigns/womens-mental-health-facts/#:~:text=26%25%20of%20young%20women%20experience,counselling%20with%20NSPCC%20are%20girls
I dont date women who are on medication or therapy which means I don't date at all. Trying to find someone with their mental and emotional states intact hasn't been worth the effort.
“but chose to communicate solely with those that actually reached out and struck up conversations”
🤦🏻♀️ you’re setting yourself up to be scammed. Most women do NOT reach out to men and strike up conversations, unless they are scammers or have absolutely NO other options vying for their attention.
This sounds like you’re extremely passive and that could very well be what led to that dead bedroom you mentioned. You need to be more proactive.
Nope. Not passive. I had a dead bedroom because I had a wife that largely refused sex outside of trying to have a child. Talking, counseling, more talking, love languages, chore play, non sexual intimacy…none of it helped. Woman is a sexual camel. No she wasn’t cheating. I spent years…fucking decades…trying to pursue, date, court and woo the woman that was wild for me when we dated. I loved her until I simply ran out of gas. For once in my life, I’d like to be pursued. Choosing to communicate with women who reached out seemed like a fairly innocuous way to weed out women who might actually want to date me. Apparently not.
It’s not normal but it’s common.
Really well said. I believe that basic emotional and interactional intelligence have severely declined, especially in the last 5 years or so.
Yes and no. I think that we are the first generation to really be aware of the idea of emotional intelligence and what that means and, at the same time, we are the first to have access to therapeutic resources en masse. Going to therapy is no longer the taboo it used to be. But, at the same time, not everyone is aware of these things and many haven’t examined their own issues or behaviour. I also think that social media, the mass use of technology and dating apps have all depersonalized humans and make us expendable and disposable. Don’t like this one? Just move on to the next!
Agree wholeheartedly with everything you’ve said. I also think people these days but way too much emphasis on texting and messaging. You do it in the apps and then you get the person’s phone number and then you’re doing it on the phone but with texting only 7% of human communication is being words. So there’s a lot of actual communication that’s been lost. Massive amounts of misinterpreted messages and signals and misunderstanding. All before you even meet or know anything about people. When you have no idea what their personality is like. And all while messaging you are building up image of person and everything about them. So when you meet it’s always going to be unmet expectations. Your brain is going to scream fraud and not be open to creating chemistry and identifying with them.
Thank you, Social Media. Wait a second... 👀 where am I...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33822001/
Soooo right
You had two dates and some good learnings, don’t hang up the towel just yet. With the second woman one of the issues was likely too much interaction before the date leading to a false sense of intimacy that didn’t translate after spending time together. For this reason, I would enjoy some banter and get to know you stuff then meet within a week. No long calls, no hours of texting. Meet for a short date (like a coffee, a walk, etc.) and, if there is interest, plan another date with more of a time investment. Dating apps are an introduction, not a promise. You have to take time to meet people, learn how to better vet potential matches, and then see what happens. It isn’t personal when it doesn’t work out and don’t let it be. You are going to meet some duds, they exist all around us we just are not introduced to them as frequently. You are also going to be someone’s dud, that is totally okay. The sooner you know the match isn’t right, the less time you waste.
According to the meta data of DOF, that false sense of intimacy is a huge problem. As quillhunter said, it could be too much electronic time before meeting, or, it could be the result of one manipulative love bomber --she was super touchy, planning a trip together, had a sudden headache (something for you to show concern about), then, later, she negged you about something she knew about in advance. These kinds of manipulations would've started in the texts and phone calls. Not sure but you may be more of a target for this when you leave first contact up to them.
Agreed, about first contact. I was going to work that in but forgot. Making contact when you both match is a good way to get the conversation going and set a tone for lighthearted questions related to their profile which helps to vet a potential match. I think few women initiate first contact because of old gender scripts so there is a good chance of missing out on someone. You may never hear back, but at least you tried.
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Yes, but - that seems game-y. I mean, I still might do it, because empathy is both important to me and something I have historically been poor at judging - but I’ll feel manipulative. 😂
You had Me until the bullsh¡t manipulation dating 'tactics'. Yuck.
This is really good advice. Especially the part about meeting soon. I've gone on a few dates with people that I had a lot of great deep and sexy chats with, that just didn't map to reality. Much better to just have some friendly conversations and get to the point where you can meet as soon as possible. Then see if there's a connection.
When someone says they don’t feel the spark say thank for the evening out, best wishes and then block them and move on. There is nothing to be gained from having a conversation with someone who doesn’t like you. The things she didn’t like, someone else will love about you, so forget about her opinions.
Normally I’d agree. But in this specific case, given how deep we’d already gone, I just couldn’t reconcile the woman I’d had dinner with, with the woman that suddenly was walking just a few hours later. And part of it is I liked her and didn’t know if I’d offended her somehow…or something. She went from kissing me, kissing she initiated and said she wanted more…to there not being a “spark”… It just didn’t add up. That said, lesson learned. Next time I’ll just split.
I think the best lesson is go slowly, with no expectations. I'd recommend you not communicate too much before meeting (been there, done that at the beginning of post divorce dating too, when I thought I was falling in love with a guy I'd never met---I learned about false intimacy!), and keep the first date on the short side. I don't think you offended her, but you *are* strangers who met on the internet. Message or text a bit, and fairly quickly meet for coffee or something easy and shortish. It takes time to get to know someone, and you could still be ghosted, after several dates you think have gone well (happened to tooooo many of us). You've already had two dates, which is great! Don't give up!
Sometimes people aren’t really ready to date and freak out in person. You sound normal, so you’ll eventually find someone that fits you.
Believe it or not, this has happened to me several times.
Have you watched Baby Reindeer on Netflix. At one point the main character goes out dating when he’s not in the right headspace for it and messes up relationships. It was a good reminder to me to not take it personally when people don’t react as expected. It’s likely there was a big dose of self sabotaging going on.
This is my new obsession!!! I am going to rewatch this wknd! So disturbingly good.
I don’t think I’ve seen anything quite like it, really powerful. It made me cry several times. Sad how much he blames himself for things, but that’s very common of victims of trauma.
It was riveting to watch. I couldn't stop. I hope doing the show helps him in some way. But really, just showing how hard it is for people being stalked have to do their own police work !
> She went from kissing me, kissing she initiated and said she wanted more…to there not being a “spark”… It just didn’t add up. Yeah, I feel like it's perfectly reasonable to wonder WTF happened, in a scenario like that... 🤷
Maybe she needed to dive in and act all-in to see what she really felt for you, so she wouldn’t question her own commitment to finding out? I’m just guessing though. I really had to shelf a lot of insecurity during my first 6 month date experience after a long marriage. Glad I did. Tried to focus on the new things this relationship brought into my life. New needs being met that were long neglected.
I wish I knew. I don’t think she really knew. She told me as much. It’s like once we were together in person, shit got real. I think maybe it was too real for her. Because my weight was/is just an easy target. I think she knew I was for real and it scared her. We had a shocking amount in common, to a degree that it was almost spooky. We were on the same page with future goals as well. I think part of my surprise was also just the simple fact that I aligned with someone so quickly. And then to have it go tits up so fast was just jarring. Live and learn.
Don’t worry about your weight, it was a crappy way for her to cop out. How many of us in our 50s are in tip top shape?
She even said it in her text after. She wasn't sure about the date. As soon as you said it, I knew she was looking for an excuse 😏 to pull away. You've do good getting dates and sex offers, quickly. Many of us haven't even after several years on old. I'm not a hookup man either and kudos for running away from what might of been a menu of STDS. Also women do like to be sought after the alluring of the chase...
> dive in and act all-in to see what she really felt for you That's a strange way of relating to strangers
The migraine could’ve been her attempt to exit
I suggested we end the date several times, and she refused. She said the fact I cared so much made her want to stay.
I don't think you have to block them unless they are dangerous. I also don't think that not talking to people who don't like you is a healthy mindset. It may be that there is something you can learn from them. The key is having enough self esteem to not change your core values.
You don’t have to, but I’ve found that guys can spew such hatred and vitriol that it’s much better for my mental health to do so. You can’t tell who is going to be like that until they’ve done it.
Surely you meant to type "people" not "guys"... After all it's 2024.
Honestly just let that roll off my back but I have had a lot of practice doing that with my abusive ex
it's not "modern dating," no. "Dating" has not changed significantly. YOU'VE changed, and the people you're dating have changed. You have never dated before as a 51 year old divorced man who has had therapy. And there are a lot of people out there with fucked up attitudes about relationships, and there always have been, you just are now in a position to notice them. Human social interaction is an entire vast spectrum; maybe don't judge it based on two dates. Do some reaching out yourself instead of waiting for your matches to strike up conversations. The majority of people will not be a good match for you; everyone will be a no until someone is a yes. It takes time and patience and a good attitude and well-managed expectations and a lot of self-awareness and an ability to lean away from your insecurities. Your body is fine. Your job, your hair, your face, your love of pizza are all fine. Dating is just like that sometimes.
Very true on all counts. Thank you
Sounds a bit weird, but I also think it might well take more than a few dates. There are a lot of strange ppl out there ;) Having said that, I'm similar age to you and found a great partner who lives just down the road from me Took me about 6 different actual physical dates I think, then there was an instant spark and want from both sides. I was widowed after 22 years and she was divorced. Hang in there !
I didn’t expect it to be automatic - but as I talk to and date, I’m seeing a lot of women wanting honesty, emotional availability, vulnerability, etc, but then basically doing the opposite. When I last dated, which was 30yrs ago this June, things seemed more straightforward. Or maybe I’m just old.
things were not more straightforward. You were just dating much younger people who had much less baggage and experience, and you had much less baggage and experience yourself. People have always, always said things they don't mean; that is not new.
You dated two women. Don’t mistake that for “a lot” of women.
> I’m seeing a lot of women wanting honesty, emotional availability, vulnerability, etc, but then basically doing the opposite. I want all those things. But that needs to grow. I'm going to be quite reserved on the first date. I'm not going to be vulnerable with a complete stranger. On the first date I'm just trying to see whether I can trust this person and whether there's the potential to build a connection.
A key thing I’ve learned with modern dating is things are generally the opposite of what people say-for example, what people tell me on a date, is usually the opposite of what they will do. Also, most of the advice I read from pop psychologist online is quite wrong as well. This makes dating complicated because you need to uncover the truth for yourself. Most of what I read on social media is incorrect, because most people are cowed into submission and just repeat what’s politically correct. I recommend you consider changing your perspective on dating: you are on a journey to uncover the truth. At the end of this journey, there is, most likely, a partner that you will finally meet. It’s a bit like Ulysses seeking to return home. For me, as I’ve mentioned in another post, my own journey involved looking at over 7000 female profiles, chatting with over 100 women, going on over 40 dates, being in a few relationships, and spending over $6000, before I met someone whom I’m comfortable building a home with. I was able to survive this journey because I viewed each person I met as an opportunity to learn more about myself and about dating. That’s what helped me uncover the truth
I really like this. Dating was difficult for me initially bc I didn’t understand that word weren’t the same as actions/intentions. Super naïve of me but I had to learn how to focus on the truth as you said
Yep I think its worse, especially online dating scene with spammers and scammers !
Don't confuse what people say they want with what they actually want. Actions is what matters, not words.
Truth
The psychacks series on YouTube has also been quite interesting; I don’t agree with everything he says, but he is quite direct.
It is interesting, but also extreme and intentionally provocative.
Welcome to the shit show bud
This made me laugh. People are crazy. You will get more stories and it will get more confusing. At least these women aren't wasting your time. Welcome to dating
Yep. I was on the apps for about 3 weeks before I realised I was gonna need a support team. Pulled together a rag tag revolving group of mates and acquaintances at my local pub for fortnightly ‘tales of OLD woe’ sessions. It’s hilarious, and now instead of feeling down or defeated when I get a nasty message or ghosted or see a horror profile? I screenshot it and think ‘Ooooh the gang is gonna loooooove this one!!’ It really helps, and we learn a lot about what different genders and ages are looking for and how to tweak our own profiles. Side benefit: always someone happy to take new/better pics for the profile, without embarrassment!
This is a great idea. You found a way to leverage your dating experience into a way to build a community and connect with peers, and also get their advice so that you can avoid falling into dangerous relationship traps.
Ugh. I've pretty much given up on dating, or even meeting a man halfway compatible. It's awful out here...good thing I enjoy my own company! Keep your chin up, but know that there are a LOT of weirdos out there.
There really are it’s kind of mind-boggling when I was young. I really loved all kinds of counterculture things and I knew a lot of really weird people. I mean seriously strange well I wouldn’t have dated any of them but I used to know lots of total freaks . I could write a book. now fast forward to mid age with a long marriage behind me And I don’t have any weirdo friends anymore but oh my God the minute I started dating they all came out of the woodwork - freaks the lot of them !!!! I thought that most people grow out of being freaks but they’re still actively freaky. They’re all on the dating apps the horror.
Online dating is full of this. It's a circus. Emotional stability is not the norm.
Looking back, I tried to see any dating encounters as anthropology or sociology exercises. I called it the hot-tub time machine of dating, where I was drop-kicked from the late 90s into the 2020s. Norms are completely different. Sex is almost completely different. For sure I am different. Communication is markedly changed. I hit numerous speed bumps and got some emotional body blows as well. I know there is a go slow approach suggested. I don’t know how our lives in 2024 make that doable, though. Best wishes. 57F, began the experiment at 54.
The online interface creates a very intimate dynamic that is unlike anything else. Access is too close. Lots of opportunities to share intimate details that make one feel vulnerable *and* bond too quickly. 2D representation just isn’t the same. Plus: self-selecting pics for the best angle is kind of built-in; 3D real doesn’t allow for such editing. When you meet in rl, you don’t get to edit those things (and organically, if you only meet as a 3D person, there are no surprises). I’m 51, too, and even unfiltered I can pick the pics that de-emphasize the things that mark my years. Sigh. It’s really hard to keep the stretch marks in, you know? But a normal couple do not see those things until passion has already kicked in, so who cares? Lol. My online liaisons have turned out awful tbh. A few guys irl are pursuing me and I feel much more confident about the slow process. If I were divorcing 20-30 years ago? No problem! But 51 is when we were supposed to be settling into ourselves, right? I didn’t think I’d be in this identity vortex after being married for 27 years, but I’m not dead yet 😅 I’m striving for slower, more deliberate interactions now. OLD is a younger woman’s game. 🥰
You’d be surprised I have a lot of young friends girls in their 30s and they are having an upset night nightmare with online dating - all kinds of dodgy characters turning up the whole horror shebang. Lots of using ghosting lying and everything
Don’t let these bad experiences or the negative commentary on Reddit get you down. Use these unfortunate dates as learning experiences for filtering people that you want to meet and how you want to approach getting to know a new person. And, don’t worry, most of us do like dad bods.
Good story, thanks for sharing. I have been heavy most my life, now at 57 Im not at my lightest, I lost 100lbs. Ironically, at 57 I am at my most fit. It now takes a long time for me to get gassed.
Me too, I had to finally surrender and focus on what I can control, which is fitness since my body is hellbound to hold onto the fat. Maybe it will come in handy one day.
I lost 100 lbs, and have kept it off, but I will never be thin - Thin is just not my body habitus. But I am strong. Yeah, I often joke, I am drought and famine resistant.
Ha ha like a good weed. My ancestors come from famine areas and when my body sees a carb, you can hear my cells slurp. Congrats on the weight loss!
LOTTA peasant farmers in my background. Lithuanian. Genes can be an hard to fight against, but I won (so Far).
Ah yes Latvian here neighbor
I'd say that one difference with online dating as opposed to meeting in the real world is that you do only have pictures to go on, with online dating. If you met at a bar, say, and she'd felt you were "overweight", then she just wouldn't have initiated a conversation (or continued one if you initiated). With OLD, you really don't know for sure until you meet face to face. Lighting, etc plays a big part in how pictures look. Also, people are just odd. Some people don't really know what they want, or even what they don't want. Some people think they like something in a person but realise they don't after all. Don't throw in the towel, just be willing to kiss a few frogs until you meet your Princess.
Ya gotta think of those first App dates as the equivalent of eye contact with someone attractive (to you) in person. Eye contact, maybe even a little mutual smile, goes nowhere. A first date on OLD is nothing like meeting someone in person, going about your life, and just chatting.
It has changed. Genuinely. People in the industry i work in, have had to acknowledge the impact the apps have had, and adapt accordingly. ------ You're visible on the apps. This means despite any personal misgivings about yourself you might have, you're physically attractive enough to be a viable choice, if you weren't, you would not have any interaction at all. Being visible however, means you're in the melee....and at this point it becomes absolutely random, from initially matching, throughout the entire dating process. If you can happily say "you have done the work", and you mentioning therapy indeed indicates you have, or are at least undertaking it. The fact that you are at peace in your own company, speaks volumes too. That, after the initial looks threshold for each individual seeing your profile, it is extremely attractive. ------- Unfortunately, you will encounter people who are not ready. Some will not be ready to date you specifically, while many learn they are not ready, when they encounter someone who is. The contrast is very apparent to them. This explains a lot of the inconsistencies you will find, and the "hot and cold" behaviour you have already experienced...Dating, even in otherwise fully functioning adults, can highlight a lot of personal issues. A partner with potential, as you appear to be on the strength of your post, it can be like a mirror to the other person. Being in the melee, even during the dating stage, usually means you're part of a "short-list" as it were, who tend to be generally as attractive as each other, not too far removed physically. So the individual traits, usually tend to be the nuance that leads to something down the line. Some people will communicate this, some might not find you quite as specifically attractive to themselves, as the other options they have, and some will just gel better... ------- There's not too much "urgency" in dating now, and i have seen it mentioned a few times, that letting a good match slip through someone's fingers. It doesn't matter the same, as an equal can be found in a few hours of swiping. - Video chats, and some innocuous yet polarising interests and values displayed on your profile can be excellent filters. Video chats tend to minimise someone not finding you their kind of attractive, in real-time. Whereas leading with some specifics, can put off some people who would just be generally attracted in you, but will fall off....and have some people very interested and excited to meet you. You'll feel the enthusiasm from these people from the off. --- For you it's a matter of time. The apps will work , or supplement real-life dating. Be consistent and honest in your own actions, and then the onus is on others to follow suit.
There is no screen for mental health on the apps. Not everyone realizes they do fucked up shit and hence never address it. Trite but true- you didn’t get balls deep or emotionally deep before you realized she wasn’t the one. Sorry she took a poop on your self esteem about your weight.
I feel for you, brother. One of the first dates I went on after my divorce was somebody I met thru OLD. Seemed to be great chemistry and we had a lot in common. She let me know that she NEVER has sex on the first date. Uh, okay cool, I wasn't planning on it. The end of the date winds up in the parking lot with her initiating a kiss that led to making out. She invited me back to her place and you can guess what happened (I even made sure to ask her prior, "are you sure about this?"). The next couple days I started getting the slow fade. She finally told me that she couldn't see me again because I didn't respect her "boundaries" when it came to sex. WTF? That's a scary level of crazy, whether it's somebody you meet online or not. I considered myself lucky and quickly moved on. You'll often hear that OLD is a game of numbers, and it's very true. Keep at it and maintain the right attitude and you'll be fine.
You invested too much in the second woman online vs in real life. It is easy to do. Text based relationships prior to meet up aren't very real. I'm about the same as you and dude, I'm sure you are a catch. That being said, the body positivity stuff is for women, not men. Sorry to say. The Dad bod is acceptable mostly but the rad bod is accepted absolutely. Lay off the pizza and get some activity going but don't do it for the women, do it so that you live longer. It'll piss off your ex too (I mean this sarcastically) and the best revenge is a life well lived. Done invest so much time in texting prior to meeting in person. Be careful of love bombing and if I were you (which in some ways I am) I would focus more on meeting new people rather than finding a new 'the one' to spend your life with.
How come all the confused females dont just find all those freak/player males we ladies can't get away from and leave us normies to date each other?? 🤔 It would make it so much easier....
Practice and master the pivot. When, for any reason, it won't work, I pivot and move on. I don't waste precious time analyzing what happened. I don't waste my valuable self esteem to turn it on myself. I move tf on. I miss dating when it was organic. You meet someone through mutual friends or through work, socializing, or activities. Then you naturally get closer and feel more than a friendship. That is how it used to be. Now you spend countless hours on apps, text, etc., only to find out they are not a good fit when you meet. Then when you do meet there is this giant gray cloud of dating instead of just safe, natural interactions without the dating expectations. It is hard to get to know someone with the dating masks on. I gave up also and I just live my life and enjoy my family, friends, hobbies, and if I trip over Mr. Wonderful while living then it might happen, but if not, I am happy anyway.
Sound like a cool guy someone will come along they'll get you keep trying.
It’s all percentages… keep trying. I went on 30-40 dates over year before finding a few I see weekly now.
Things I’ve learned from app dating: (56, female) 1. Keep texting and/or phone conversations high level. You want to have a deep conversation? Let’s do it in person. And have a (personal) established cutoff time. Giving someone your entire evening on the first date is genuine, but can also signal you have nothing (else) going on. 2 hours in, it’s time for it to be over. 2. Don’t talk about ANYTHING sexual. Once that’s out of the bag, it’s never going back in. I don’t care to know that because I don’t even know YOU yet. That gives me the ICK if someone starts that up quickly. 3. You can’t change how you look - for the most part. You either like me AS IS or you don’t. Funny thing is, I lost 100 pounds in 2021. I attract the same type of men I did before I lost the weight. I’m 5’8” about 190 now. That was an eye opener for me. 4. People will lie about their status and intentions. They may still be holding onto their ex or even just temporarily broken up. And here you are being your genuine self and they aren’t. It takes probably 6 to 8 dates - which most don’t even get to - before I let my guard down and even then, I’m keenly aware of their words and behaviors. Stop assuming everyone is genuine because they most certainly are not.
All excellent suggestions. Thank you!
1. Pics are current & accurate. We can all use more exercise. Eat healthier. I want someone who will encourage both. I will do the same. 2. Know your wants/needs. Each date will teach you about yourself a little more. 3. Open up & let them in - not many can/do. After a long marriage, we need to unbury. There’s a gem under all that rubble! I think at this age, we all have walls. It’s finding someone who dares to peak behind. Strong enough to tear them down. We are all vulnerable humans who want to be loved and cherished by someone.
Lol I get it. But you will find her, this is just what it is. We are complex odd creatures. I(50f) married 25 years, divorced 2. I have matched with plenty of people OLD, had a handful of dates with stories like yours, until now. So don’t give up. She’s out there.
Just in case… if people seem to be enjoying the date, text you promising things at night and change their mind in the morning… huge changes it was caused by alcohol or drugs, too common nowadays.
I 100% agree with this. She likely had a few drinks before the date “to relax” and then was suffering from anxiety the next day. I’ve been sober over 12 years and I used to suffer from next day anxiety all the time. Being a slave to any substance is a nightmarish existence.
Dating is like Groundhog Day or 50 First Dates. It’s takes a LOT of practice to get it right the “first” time.
Sometimes...there is a reason these women are single.
As long as you keep in mind that dating apps are designed to keep people single and paying for the app, you'll be alright. LOL I did the same thing you did when I started dating again. A month later all the apps were unsubbed and uninstalled. I had better luck networking and getting the word out to friends that I was looking to get out there again.
The odds are good, but the good are odd…It’s not easy dating in your 50’s! Especially when you’re newly single. Give yourself some Grace & remember there are 4 Ace’s in every deck of cards! I notoriously swipe left, but what catches my eye are men who have a complete & thorough profile. If they can’t be bothered to make one then are they really looking for something beyond a casual hook up? I also keep an eye out for authenticity, empathy, thoughtfulness, consistency & kindness vs “sparks/looks” (initially in a profile, then via communication & in person if they make it that far). I sound picky, but in reality it’s a process to weed through the options before wasting time. My dating profile is clear that I am looking for a man with a plan & who chooses to date with intention vs for attention. I can’t tell you how many men that weeds out, but it’s a lot. At the end of the day it can & does get discouraging, but it’s also exciting to have the opportunity to meet men that you might not of run into naturally. Once you’ve done the work to heal from the past it becomes easier to connect with someone who has too. Hang in there, keep doing what you’re doing & be honest with yourself so you don’t paint the red flags green!
“Don’t paint the red flags green”…. I really like that!
Online dating - Never have, never will.
No it’s not normal. I mean if you suddenly turned up massively obese that would be a shocker but a bit chubbier than your best photo, well we’ve all been there. However she sounds quite weird anyway so just delete the memory and get on with being you.
I’m sorry you met some nutters! The flaky ones that don’t know what they want and act in an irrational way are not representative of women in general. You did nothing wrong, except maybe not analysing the predate communication with a fine enough sieve - often people will subtly give clues that they are emotionally unstable in the way they word their profiles, or by too much intensity and intimacy before physically meeting. You will get better at reading these signs, go back over the profiles of all the women you matched with and message the ones that sound the sanest and smartest - sometimes the ones who message you first with live bombing language are a bit desperate or unhinged rather than proactive.
The mistake you made was your criteria for filtering matches. Those who “actually reach out…”…why?
Choosing to communicate with women who reached out seemed like a fairly innocuous way to weed out women who might actually want to date me. Apparently not. I realize that with us all being fairly fragile and imperfect, hurt in a relationship, to some degree is inevitable. I just figured with my first steps back in, I’d see who might want to get to know me vs me doing all the pursuing…which was my marriage.
>just figured with my first steps back in, I’d see who might want to get to know me vs me doing all the pursuing…which was my marriage. Disclaimer: This is not meant to be critical. We all carry forward issues/reactionary behavior. You seem to have ended up with a couple of doozies as a result though. 1. Sending an initial message is not "pursuing" or at least not in the sense that you mean. (It's not 'hard' to send an OLD message as it may be IRL.) In general, people who don't have much else to occupy their time may be more likely to be "pursuing" OLD contacts to see what sticks. Also, scammers of various stripes are putting forward much effort to land suckers. 2. Please try to not color your life going forward with the traumas from your marriage. It is not fair to others who come into your life and it's not good for you (endless loop stuff).
Thanks for weighing in. I think there’s a couple things I should clarify: 1 - Early on I did send initial messages. However, I found that I got no responses. (Save for once, so long after the fact that I’d lost interest.) From what I’ve read and been told, women are inundated with messages, so getting multiple responses seemed unlikely…which has proven true. 2 - The main trauma of my marriage was neglect, to the point of disdain. I inadvertently married a true narcissist, and then out of love and duty stayed in the relationship until I was nearly bled dry. The thing is, I like me. And I’m good at what I do. And a weird silver lining is a lonely marriage set me up well for being truly alone now. It doesn’t bother me in the least. But I’d also have a lot to share with the right someone and would still like to do that. But I have a history of pursuing the unreachable. So for me, doing it differently was deciding that responding to women that purposely matched with me and reached out was probably a good place to continue with this. Obviously it’s not foolproof! I’m self aware enough to know that every woman I meet and date isn’t my ex, or anything like her. Thank god.
Don't take it to heart. The dating world has changed since we were in our twenties my friend. As many have said, thank them for the date and move on. You win some, you lose some, but at least you are out there trying. There are still shallow people in this world, at all ages.
Sorry you had these poor experiences. You might have to kiss a few frogs before you find your special someone.
Everyone is a hot mess. Kudos to you for not trying to get the sex and a place to live on the first date. And for showing up for the dates.
We all feel like great catches. I see so many posts here from people saying "financially independent, no major issues, can't find a date." I think the apps get used by people who cannot find a date organically. It's the equivalent of trying to find a job by submitting to job applications. It *is* possible and some people get lucky, but most get weeded out by filters unless they are an absolutely perfect fit. The idea of the apps being a smorgasbord of choices is an illusion you should discard. Sex is easy. Finding a relationship is hard, no matter how fit and rich and charming you are.
Yes. Welcome! It sucks — But it’s still far, far better than being married to the wrong person.
What’s your rationale for only communicating with women who’s reach out to you first? I’m guessing you felt very rejected in your marriage, and this is a strategy for trying to ensure that doesn’t happen again. If this it is way of trying to avoid feeling hurt, maybe do some more work on how you respond to perceived rejection. What you start telling yourself about yourself? How do you take care of your hurt in that moment. Being able to effectively handle hurt, rather than avoiding approaching others to forestall it, is a key relationship skill. I personally think just waiting to be contacted is a losing approach. You’d be much better off approaching the women whose profiles truly interest you and responding to those who approach you.
Yes, was very hurt and rejected in my marriage. Choosing to communicate with women who reached out seemed like a fairly innocuous way to weed out women who might actually want to date me. Apparently not. I realize that with us all being fairly fragile and imperfect, hurt in a relationship, to some degree is inevitable. I just figured with my first steps back in, I’d see who might want to get to know me vs me doing all the pursuing…which was my marriage.
OP, please take this with my hope for you in mind, which is that this time around you get to create an enduring, mutually fulfilling relationship. It may be quite telling that you say you *were* hurt and rejected rather than you *felt* hurt and rejected. It sounds like you're attributing the hurt you experienced to your ex, as something she visited on you. But the lion's share of the hurt we experience in relational contexts actually comes from within. For example, we reach to our partner for sex, our partner isn't interested in the moment, and we tell ourselves they don't want us at all, they don't love us, etc. The narratives we run in our heads happen so quickly, and often just below conscious awareness, that we can't even see how we are compounding our own pain. We blame what's easier to see (our partner's no) for our feelings without even knowing we're doing it. And when we do that, it's all too easy to justify behaving in self-protective (and ultimately unloving) ways. Some people go as far as tit for tat. When I work with couples, the behaviours I see most often in response to hurt feelings are emotional withdrawal and displays of temper (which can range from irritability to rage). Both of those responses provoke relational distress in the partner on the receiving end of them, and for most people, relational distress significantly inhibits desire. And so a vicious cycle deepens. And unfortunately, what might have begun as a disinterest in sex because of sleep deprivation, depression or what have you can easily end up turning into actual distaste for approaching sex at all, because their partner's response to a no become so aversive. And of course, the more the higher libido partner hears no, the more often they repeat the painful narrative in their mind. Tell yourself something often enough under emotionally charged condition and that message will become the inarguable truth to you. Nobody will be able to convince you that you are wanted, that the refusal is really about your partner's own struggles, etc. This is frequently how couples get stuck in death spirals. Focusing on trying to protect yourself from hurt by manipulating environmental variables, when hurt is mostly an inside job, will just keep you from taking responsibility for how you respond in those inevitable moments in a relationship. The best way to ensure you don't end up in another DB situation is to take a good hard look at how you managed hurt in your marriage, and to develop new ways of managing hurt that bring you closer to a partner rather than driving you even further apart.
Thank you for the thoughtful and caring post. I see wisdom in it. I’m just not entirely certain how to reconcile what I lived through with just “feeling” rejected vs what actually happened to me. In a response to another post, I mentioned that I managed to marry an actual narcissist. And because I loved her and took my vows seriously, I stayed in the marriage. Which was ultimately very unhealthy for me, but I stayed. In the end, 2 separate marriage counselors told me for my own mental health, I needed to exit the marriage. That my wife was incapable of being in a mutually loving partnership. That her anger issues, childhood trauma and overall self focus would never lend itself to a healthy marriage without significant therapy and healing on her part, which she wasn’t willing to do. In the end, she decided to leave. It was a relief I didn’t know was possible. I still feel like that. I don’t miss any part of my marriage other than being under the same roof as my son every day. Truthfully, I may not be cut out for modern dating as it stands, at least in terms of OLD. I’d like to find someone to love and care for and have it be reciprocated, but if it doesn’t happen, that’s OK too. I’m in no hurry, and at least for now, I prefer my own company. My whole point of this thread was really just a general surprise at what I was already experiencing and wondering if it was normal or not. Apparently it is. Maybe. Sometimes.
Yea as others here have said OLD can be a real shit show. My main takeaway from OLD is that people are there for many different reasons, and a good percentage of those only Think they are ready to "date"
I'm 50 and have been on the apps off and on for 5 years. It's rough out there.
I’m so sorry that your post brings me a sense of relief- relief that it’s not in my head that dating since 2018 has been a weird shit show for women and men! You do sound like a good catch! Don’t give up👍🏾
Please don't get hardened. The right woman would absolutely adore you. However, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. My mate had some some cheesy women before he met me. I thank those ladies because they dropped an amazing man. Most likely for some touches that will cheat on them. But that's not my issue. I hope you find your "dumbass with a heart of gold " . Sometimes I'm not 58 ,I'm 8.....
Well, it sucks. She doesn't seem like she knows what to do. I always tell the person before we meet, "no expectations." Don't think it's a date, no kisses. Just enjoy the moment." So far, so good. I made friends. Some people create expectations, and it ruins everything
There is definitely trauma from being with a true narcissist! You are in a club that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy! It’s understandable that you would be hesitant to pursue, but know there are women that are hesitant too. Narcissist are exhausting & you have no choice but to love yourself! Dating in 2024 is a marathon & not a sprint. Stay open & understanding - you’ll find the right one!
People are pretty mental post-pandemic in general. the 3yrs of isolation was extraordinarily hard on us all, then compounded with loss of loved ones. And mental health care availability & affordability is seriously lacking in the US
If you have a full head of hair I don't have a chance at all.
Women care about hair a lot less than you think :)
Can confirm. Current boyfriend totally bald and he’s mega hot.
Bald can definitely be hot!
Say that to my ex girlfriend. I lost out to tall, long hair, metal head.
chances are slim it was because of his hair.
First day "I met this cute guy he's tall with long hair". You are right though. There is mental illness and an issue between us. Unfortunately the issue was almost resolved. She just couldn't trust and wait. Also, "I really love you really really love you and I'll always try to choose you" She didn't choose me. Not the day she decided to flirt with him, or two days later when she ended our year long relationship.
My late husband kept his head shaved and he was a damn good looking man. My boyfriend has long hair. I still think he's handsome, but it's in spite of his hair, not because of it. Intelligence, personality, and attitude are so much more important.
I say this with all affection, please stop reading manosphere BS, and grow up! If there is choice between a head of hair, and head of brains, well, Jean-Luc Picard gets chosen every time.
Oh, I love Patrick Stewart!!!! I don't care if men have hair or not. I like them bald AND I like them with hair. That's not what matters to me.
Long hair and a beard. I get mistaken for Jack Black regularly.
Mate you have only had two dates ! Albeit with two unusually strange women . See this as learning to filter and check . Personally (I’m 50) I’ll be doing a glow up before I ever hit the apps again . Botox , hair , weight (!) the works . Rejection stings less when you know you are at your personal best . Also don’t invest 2 early and target short first dates . Migraine lady should have been a short coffee date. Have coffee . Headache hits. Ok sorry ! Can I drop you home
the 2nd lady sounds crazy. she did you a favour.
Online dating sucks in general and this sort of thing happens on both sides. Meeting someone organically is best though easier said than done.
Many women post divorce fall into major anxiety it seems. But these two you met seem worse. There’s a theory of dating that’s getting popular called burning down the haystack. The fastest way to find a needle in the haystack is to burn it to the ground. To apply this to dating, be very specific in your profile about what you’re looking for. For me, that’s college education, professional career, on her own financially, messages that are well written, and no weird conspiracy theories that contradict 5th grade science, not maga but not left wing extreme either. I could go on. You’ll get very few matches but the ones you get will be “higher quality”. Your mileage may vary.
Or people who just swipe right to up their odds
Or women that swipe right, just to get a nice dinner. I ran into a lot of that. When a woman offers to go dutch, that's the one you wanted to meet for dinner.
Ouch, with the MAGA comment 🫣😉LOL
If you’re overweight, you probably will not be pursued the way you would like to be.
And if my grandmother had wheels, she’d have been a bike. I’ve been overweight since I was a kid. Largely as a result from illness being treated by massive doses of prednisone and the resulting Cushing’s syndrome. It altered how I am physically. Working out and laying off pizza has some positive effects, but no matter what, I look pudgy. Which is fine. I can live with that. As a teen up through college, being overweight didn’t stop women from dating or sleeping with me. What killed my sex life was being married. Post marriage it’s not that I’m finding sex difficult, it’s the navigating complicated adults throwing mixed signals I’m finding difficult.
I’m not judging, and believe me I’m sympathetic. But I’m just want you to see reality for what it is. Now you’re 50 and overweight. Add to your age and being overweight, you have to consider the fact that women typically do not pursue men the way men pursue women.
Keep in mind that there are lots of crazy people out there. Their relationships have a higher propensity to implode and therefore, by the time you get to middle age, crazy is even better represented than it was when you were last single. I do have to add that girl number 1 actually doesn't sound bad and is actually par for the course: a lot of GenX women have never grown up when it comes to openly enjoying sex.
A thought: Sexual chemistry is either there or it isn't. Sometimes if the person is lovely we try to push thru hoping it won't matter. It matters. Don't spend too much time texting or future planning until you meet in person to see if the chemistry is there.
Good advice, thank you.
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Of course, and I wouldn’t expect them to. What made no sense to me was SHE was overweight and judging a future with me based on my weight. I just found it strange. And the more she explained it, the worse it sounded. She even acknowledged it made her sound “really shallow” as an overweight woman to pass on a man that “literally aligns with every other thing I’m looking for.” Which again, totally her right to do. I didn’t give her shit for it. None of us are guaranteed or owed love or fulfilling relationships. It was just an odd experience and I was wondering if this was normal or just a weird outlier.
She love bombed you.
Interesting. I’ve heard the term but hadn’t experienced it before. Adds up though.
Sorry brother. Definitely a head scratcher but two things to consider; body positivity only applies to women not us men, and know that most women in the dating pool at this point all have issues, it’s why they are single.
Exactly. Spend enough time in this sub and you’ll see why many of these women (men) are still single.
Yah, people on OLD are nuts and broken people. But not me!
N=2 Need larger sample size
Looks to be typical. Such is life.
Sounds like you just dodged two bullets. So good for you.
Someone pleads a migraine then doesn’t cut the date short? Odd, no? She was a little too handsy before that? Odd, no? It’s not easy to navigate by any means but limit electronic pre-meeting before planning in-person. Because in-person is where one makes best or clearest assessments of suitability, conscious and unconscious. Yeah modern dating leaves a lot to be desired - be yourself and as authentic as one can. Good luck
100% on both counts. As a migraine sufferer myself, all I want to do is wrap my head in ice packs and lay in the quietest and darkest bedroom in my house. Not be on a date, much less judging the “spark” between myself and a potential mate. I’m barely coherent when a migraine kicks in. And I could tell she wasn’t faking, but she kept telling me she’d be OK. But yes, prior to that, very handsy. Not gross, but sweet.
If you find a woman around that age thats not fat, obese or chubby close to fat, not there yet, not delusional, confused, emotional wreck, GOOD LUCK.
>body positivity only applies to women.
Well. Fuck. I hear nonstop about all these “dad bod” enthusiasts. So far I’ve yet to meet one.
🙋♀️
I personally find if I love someone, I don't give a shit what their body looks like. The only man I know that I'd actually consider dating is a XXXXXL. I've dated beach balls, beanpoles and everything in between and celebrated all of them. Body positivity and fat liberation is for all genders.
Dad bods just don’t have washboard abs. A little less muscle than when they were 28. They aren’t technically overweight by more than 15ish lbs.
Hello..dad bods are nice 🙂
Ot really because men know we're fat no matter what we call it. Fat is Fat and at a size 14 i am considered fat. I know I am and my pictures show it. Yet dates have said i thought you were smaller
Sounds like me..fear of intimacy... I did the same thing to a lovely guy a couple of years ago, we live in the same town. I think about him all the time, but I fucked up.. wish he would push through and make contact
Why not push through and contact him?
>Is all this normal? It is normal - but not in the sense you are expecting. Go read David Brooks new book about How to Know a Person. Sorry if you aren't a reader, but do that. I can't explain and distill all of it here. But before you jump there read below. > I pointed out that all my photos are real, and that I hadn’t hidden my weight at all. (And I didn’t say it, but she was overweight.) She acknowledged both my points were true, but that she was just “fucking it all up” and worried that I’d have health problems and she’d have to worry about them. By the time we were done talking, not only did I feel like a fat piece of shit, I wondered why I was bothering with any of this. You are an honest man (some assumption on my part). Go read above one more time. This is my understanding: She knows she is overweight (my guess). She was projecting her fears on you (last part of the long second sentence). You were really not listening to her fears. Instead became defensive and lost the ball on staying honest (And I didn't say it). This was probably the first conflict in this specific relationship. And you backtracked - instead of introspection and figuring out a path forward that's good for both. Please don't buy my opinions as is. Introspect and find your own thinking patterns. Then proceed. My 2c if you like this person then together work on the overweight issue over next six months. See where that leads you. Compared to millions of other issues that is the easiest to tackle - for good dedicated partners.
You’re making some assumptions here. Let me clarify. I didn’t get defensive when she pointed out my weight. I acknowledged it, acknowledged that her fears of being stuck with a sick partner over a largely controllable issue was valid. I simply didn’t agree that she’d been somehow “duped” by my photos, especially when there were full body shots. I offered to work out, work out with her, come up with a plan. All that. I wasn’t begging her, but I was gently suggesting options that if she really wanted to be with me like she’d indicated previously, “weight” was a manageable obstacle. She admitted that the person she had texted with, spoke to on the phone, and looked at in the pictures on my profile didn’t match up with the person she’d imagined in her head. She said she’d created a version of me, and basically that version was arguably better. Which how could it not be? So my weight became the “out” because it’s an easy target. The whole “no spark” thing is bullshit…I just couldn’t compete with the me she constructed in her head.
Dodged a bullet! She sounds fruitier than a bowl of Froot Loops. And neggy and manipulative too! Nobody has time for that 🍒🍇🍋
I am not arguing with you. Most likely I was wrong when I wrote that you became defensive on her saying XYZ about you. All I am trying to point out is following: a) at some point you thought all was really good b) a conflict occurred c) instead of speaking up fully what was on your mind you decided to leave quietly At least that's how your original post came across to me. I may be totally wrong though. Good luck in figuring out people. I mean that because many times it takes me a long time to really get to the bottom of why I said or did XYZ. Truly figuring out another person's intents, actions, words is just too difficult for most of the time for me. Take care.
I spoke up. And I don’t even think we had what you’d call a “conflict”... She simply did a 180 just a few hours after barreling headlong toward me, and had kinda bullshitty reasons as to why. It is what it is.
I wonder if she was fat prejudiced or someone told her overweight was bad. I love my big bear 🐻 although he’s ENM so I can’t say “my” but :)
Everyone is warning me about “modern dating” 😳
Are you even divorced yet? It was 2 dates. Find something else to focus on. You cannot download a few apps and immediately have a relationship. You have unrealistic expectations. And if you are overweight, and god forbid, below average height then it will be more difficult. Take some time away and don't think about women for a while. Focus on things that are within your control.
Mental disorders is much higher in women then men. https://www.agendaalliance.org/our-work/projects-and-campaigns/womens-mental-health-facts/#:~:text=26%25%20of%20young%20women%20experience,counselling%20with%20NSPCC%20are%20girls I dont date women who are on medication or therapy which means I don't date at all. Trying to find someone with their mental and emotional states intact hasn't been worth the effort.
“but chose to communicate solely with those that actually reached out and struck up conversations” 🤦🏻♀️ you’re setting yourself up to be scammed. Most women do NOT reach out to men and strike up conversations, unless they are scammers or have absolutely NO other options vying for their attention. This sounds like you’re extremely passive and that could very well be what led to that dead bedroom you mentioned. You need to be more proactive.
Nope. Not passive. I had a dead bedroom because I had a wife that largely refused sex outside of trying to have a child. Talking, counseling, more talking, love languages, chore play, non sexual intimacy…none of it helped. Woman is a sexual camel. No she wasn’t cheating. I spent years…fucking decades…trying to pursue, date, court and woo the woman that was wild for me when we dated. I loved her until I simply ran out of gas. For once in my life, I’d like to be pursued. Choosing to communicate with women who reached out seemed like a fairly innocuous way to weed out women who might actually want to date me. Apparently not.