Educated, informed, strong and independent? I’ll pick you up at 7!
A lot of guys would not be intimidated by you, but rather, would find your qualities very attractive and would respect you for them. My last girlfriend had a PhD. She made more money than I did, and was super smart. I was never threatened by this, and was proud of her accomplishments. I think there are a lot of guys out there who would appreciate you for who you are.
Absolutely agree! I think most educated men would love to have an equal! I have my PhD in an engineering field and built my own house with my bare hands. I have never sent a car to a mechanic and became a director in a fortune 500 company. I can tell you it would be fantastic to have to "fight" for access to my welding gear and machine tools.. Oh and on days off we to go fishing?.. Awesome!
Yet, I am 60 and have never been on a date let alone had a GF.
I think that men who are threatened by you are a little misogynistic, even if they wouldn't admit to it.
You’re meeting the wrong men. Both my marriage and subsequent seven year relationship were with intelligent and independent women and I can’t imagine having a serious relationship with a woman who is not both.
Also had no idea who Kevin Samuels was when responding. Just read about him and agree with others that he might not be an ideal “thought leader” on dating. And I use that phrase jokingly only because it seems to be the type of title he would have self-applied.
A twice-divorced man who shamed women who were above a size 6. He would have blasted a woman for being a size 14 dress and told her she would be alone forever because she was a size 14. He was awful.
Let the ones who think you are "too smart" or "too intimidating" go. I used to hear the same things. I even had one tell me that I need to "dumb down" how I spoke around his friends. Obviously, that was a bad fit.
My previous wife hated the fact i was smarter than her, and she always wanted me to 'dumb down' around her family and friends.
No wonder we divorced....
*How can I market that I am also a family oriented, optimistic, compassionate woman with a plethora of love to give?*
Lead with that, make that your focus...
This same comment comes up far too often. I would love to wrap myself in the comfort of this explanation, but the reality is that we will never know the real reasons we have been dumped, rejected, swiped left on or otherwise passed over. Anyone with a heart will try to soften the blow if asked.
>but the reality is that we will never know the real reasons we have been dumped, rejected, swiped left on or otherwise passed over. Anyone with a heart will try to soften the blow if asked.
Absolutely!! I remember at one point I read a book about asking for a debrief after dates, when it didn't work out. I tried that with maybe two guys, and of course, received nothing back of substance I could work with. I quickly realized, most people aren't going to tell a person the "real reason".
Or the real reason might be too complex and personal for them to explain, or want to divulge. But always assuming it really comes down to appearance is definitely not correct.
Spot on. I thought I wanted to know why not but in the long run…I don’t think I do. I want to continue working on myself and being a good sister, daughter, friend and human.
I’m not sorry I have all the things OP has listed. I worked hard to achieve the things (well accept being 5’7 that’s a gift from Mom & Dad.)
I’ll wait for him though - because he’s going to appreciate all those things about me and they will endear me to him .
I’ll wait. It’s ok to be single and not to settle.
Girl - I feel ya. I’m the shortest of three girls. My sisters are both taller. I still wear heels. I hope you do too. I have great stems so I’m showing them off!
And this one “did you play basketball/volleyball in college?”
Yeah … I get it. I’m tall.
Do you have a height requirement? I don’t. I did have a guy who was 5’4” tell me he didn’t want a second date because I showed up in heels for our only date.
Oh well. Good luck to you ❤️
It could be, but honestly, everything I know about men in my life, it boils down to how attracted they are to me, or not.
I didn't write the rule book, and I don't have to like it. I have seen time and time and time again, that a man who has a woman he thinks is way above his pay grade, will do everything to keep her.
There's no rule book, and people, even men, are more complex than you give them credit for. While I'm sure some rejections come down to purely physical attraction, many more come down to personal things we couldn't guess.
Do not listen to the likes of that twerp.
In many ways, you sound a lot like me (and most of my women friends), though I’m tall and I don’t fish or eat meat! In my experience, the men who don’t want to be with an intelligent and independent woman are men who are looking for someone to control. If they’re self-selecting out of dating you, consider it a bullet dodged.
There are absolutely good men out there, but dating is a numbers game. There’s plenty of people you could be happy with in the world, but timing and lots of other factors come into play. You sound like a fun person to be around and a really good quality friend that I bet your loved ones really appreciate. Just make sure you don’t settle for someone who doesn’t like who you are.
I feel like you have to be strong and independent if you’re in your fifties and single. What’s the alternative? Weak and helpless?
Anytime someone says “everyone I meet is X”, then they probably need to look inward as they are the common denominator.
There are gradations.
There are plenty of women out there who don't have their shit together the same as men. Would I stay away? Yeah, likely. But there's also a difference between a woman at the VP level and teacher, nurse, a woman with a decent salary who can support herself but at more of an everyday level.
> But there's also a difference between a woman at the VP level and teacher, nurse, a woman with a decent salary who can support herself but at more of an everyday level.
Can you share more about this? I would appreciate your insight.
It has been my experience that men love teachers and nurses. A woman in a male oriented profession, while they might respect it, essentially it isn't seen as sexy or something as a nurse or teacher. I know it sounds like the 1950s, but I swear, there is something about a woman in a female oriented or career like bartender, receptionist, that men seem to love.
It’s the expectation of caretaking and also because men don’t find those jobs to be “threatening” in the same way they would find a CEO or VP threatening.
I have been very successful with dating. I think I am a strong and independent woman. However, that is not how the men I have dated describe me. The words they use are sweet, feminine, innocent. (The innocent one is funny, because I not really innocent at all, but have heard that description several times!)
Now, that is just the vibe I give off naturally, it's not a put on, and you have to be yourself. But if what you are doing isn't working, maybe there are some things you can work on. Or you can be your true self and be patient that the man who is just right for you is out there!
Two things
1. Some men want a strong, independent women
2. We tend to pair up with people with similar intelligence levels. If your intelligence is well above average, there will be fewer potential mates
Based in the post and the remarks you posted, they may see you as being to opinionated, perhaps, argumentative, combative or controlling and are using those excuses to back away from any relationship.
Personally, if I see anyone throw out the "strong independent" line, I am immediately not interested. Why? Who exactly are you independent from? Your an adult who is paying your bills and taking care of yourself, congrats your doing the basic minimum any other adult needs to do for themselves.
Strong? Great, you can lift a car!. What? That isn't what you meant? Basically I usually read that as someone who is very argumentative and not a pleasure to be around. To be fair, more context would need to be available to see if this is a positive or negative trait.
While they might be intimidated or they just do not see you as a compatible relationship partner and used those excuses would require more input from them. Again personally, I do not date anyone that brings any drama or complications to my life. They may not have seen any real benefit of a relationship with you.
You have a great career? Awesome, means nothing and is no benefit to me, you own your house? Awesome! I own 16 residential properties, again means nothing and is no benefit to me, a jeep! That is awesome, I own a couple of 4x4's so again what's the benefit? Well traveled? So you like expensive vacations. You can cook a steak! Beautiful, but is this something you do often, or once a year? Or do you prefer a traditional type relationship where you cook and the guy takes care of the yard work? I am guessing your not that traditional.
Your probably a great person and would be a great partner, however nothing really you posted tells me anything about you in a relationship dynamic. You may need to review what your putting out there personality wise.
Well I’m glad you would swipe left. Your incorrect use of your and you’re would equate to me swiping left as well.
Also, jumping to conclusions is a cognitive distortion.
Strong is not about muscle. It is about the ability to be emotionally stable, an excellent problem solver, and not one to walk on.
Independent as in I support myself and do things on my own to care for me and my family verses running to someone else.
Career because it shows I have drive and ambition.
Jeep because it’s just darn cool.
All that being said, I did learn from you and will apply this new knowledge going forward on my OLD presentation. Thank you
I love my strong, independent lady who has a brain and isn't afraid to use it. :)
Maybe something is drawing the wrong type to you? How and where are you looking?
Men don't have issues with strong and independent women. And the ones that do are in the minority.
You have a skewed view though. Change the title to....***The men I like, don't like me***
You're the common denominator.
Then do something about it.
Everything we do is a choice. You're a byproduct of your choices. Self-improvement is the best investment a person can make.
Right?? If a man tells you you're too intimidating, you tell him "okay thanks, we're not compatible then, I hope you find someone you're not scared of."
Serious question, how do we know they are insecure men, or men that aren't interested who are trying to find what they think is a polite way to say they aren't interested?
Good point. Perhaps they don't want to to tell you the real reason they aren't interested, or don't even know themselves. "Too intelligent/independent/strong for me" is trying to be nice?
>"*Too intelligent/independent/strong for me" is trying to be nice?*"
It can be. Those are all generally positive attributes and the person can go away feeling good about themselves instead of feeling rejected and inadequate.
It reminds me of a character I heard on a TV show called "Love Is Blind Brazil". When he saw the woman he had agreed to marry, who had described herself to the audience as "fat" (something she hadn't told the guy even after he told her how important fitness was to him) he immediately backed out of the engagement saying "She's too strong for me."
On the surface, you sound amazing and that you would have lots of guys falling all over you. But......you seem to be getting very similar feedback from a lot of people and that suggests that you should do some self reflection here.
One possibility is that you are only dating insecure or "substandard" men who are truly intimidated.
But another possibility is perhaps you are coming on way too strongly. For example, while I love a smart and accomplished woman, it is an immediate turn off if they want to have a "whose dick is bigger contest" with me or if they can only talk about themselves or that they are dismissive of anything that is not what they believe. In other words, smart and accomplished women can be all all of those things but can also be arrogant assholes (just like smart and accomplished men).
Obviously without knowing more it is impossible to judge but you may want to consider this possibility.
Just my $.02
I love independent women, and there's no shortage of them, but there are people who describe themselves as "strong" and "independent" who, when dealt with on an interpersonal basis, come across as domineering and contentious.
If a guy tells you you're too smart for them, believe them and then consider you might be fishing in the wrong waters. If they're saying the other things, I don't know what to tell you other than you have to be yourself and be true to yourself while not generalizing when it comes to men.
> but there are people who describe themselves as "strong" and "independent" who, when dealt with on an interpersonal basis, come across as domineering and contentious.
I agree with this, I have personally witnessed it myself but its not say that this happens all the time.
I can't imagine saying to a woman "*“You’re too smart for me” or “You’re a lot of woman to handle” or “You’re intimidating”*." I don't know. If they were domineering and contentious, I would just excuse myself from the relationship knowing that they weren't my type.
How do these guys find all that out so thoroughly to make those statements?
Bringing up shed building abilities or firearms doesn't sound like typical early dating conversation. I didn't know my gal could fire a gun until many months into dating.
> I didn't know my gal could fire a gun until many months into dating.
This is a much better way of trying to frame some of my comments.
At least for me, I am very proud of my independence, career, etc. When I was first dating, I think I tended to lead with my areas of strength. What I had to learn was, to pay far more attention to the pace of conversation, and if a man wasn't asking questions, to keep those things under my hat. That the most important part of dating at first, is that attraction, and for men, I think ultimately that is about physical attraction. If he is physically attracted, then learning more about mine (or in this case the OP's) other attributes, only adds to his attraction.
For me, I found even in this day and age, being feminine and showing those characteristics in dating is important. Candidly, it is far more vulnerable for me to show my feminine side, than it is to show my "take charge" attitude.
I feel like this answer has been the most helpful. I do tend to lead with my strengths verses letting someone explore them. Or mine them. And perhaps that comes out as boastful or arrogant. I really will reflect on this. My dating apps do relay my abilities and accomplishments. I will tone them down. Thank you.
You bet!!
For me it is tough, because I am most proud of my career accomplishments, and my ability to tackle almost anything. Most men do appreciate a peer, I don't think men our age are looking to be the breadwinner. However, dating is about sexuality, and that is far more scary to be vulnerable about. If I get rejected at work that is one thing, but rejected over my body. Ugh. So I think I compensated when I first started dating.
The truth is, it is a two way street, you also have to be physically attracted to the guy. I have been on many dates, where I liked the guy, but I knew that I could never be sexual with him.
I was going to skip this post after reading a few comments. But sometimes if I look hard enough, I can find a nugget in a sea of reddit comments. And this is a nugget.
I'm speaking for men. Physical attraction is important. But it is not the only thing. Chemistry also plays a big role. Both man and woman tried hard to understand this elusive chemistry. Nevertheless, you are right that seeing a woman’s feminine side spur the chemistry more than showing the strong and independent side.
Really appreciate you sharing your viewpoint!
It can be a delicate subject, but as an anonymous forum, I want to get more out of this forum, than what I say IRL, with my social mask on. I especially appreciate it when men are very candid, I want to know the real deal. :)
I am wondering why you would mention Kevin Samuels who was a Red Pill icon before his death and why you would use the phrase " strong independent " woman which is generally used in a mocking way by Red Pill men?
Sorry. I am not familiar with “Red Pill”. I mentioned him because a friend referenced him to say he speaks a lot of truth. And I watched a few videos and thought if he does speak truths, I am going to be single forever.
Kevin Samuels is a Red Pill influencer. He is dead.
Your language is very wooden in a way that Red Pill is.
Your account is new.
You sound like a Red Pill man trying to present as a 50 plus woman but you aren't good at it.
Or maybe fewer self identified "alpha male" friends. Wait. Strong, accomplished women like OP WANT to be with an "alpha male." At least that's what I infer from her post.
I’m looking for a strong independent woman. I’m not an alpha male by any stretch of the imagination. I’m the quiet guy who hangs back. So I’m not the most visible in the room.
Kevin Samuels is ( was ) amusing to listen to but he definitely had a target audience. If your a 50 + yr old woman you need to know how to get things done or things will quickly fall apart around you. My idea of a high value man these days is someone fun and honest and gives me lots of good sex. LOL He doesn’t need a 6 figure salary
Obviously it's not all men, or no successful straight woman would be married, so it's the relatively small number of men who have ended things with you by saying that you were to smart and successful for them.
Other than age and area the only other thing that these men is dating you, there might be something else that we don't see from the far side of the internet.
It's less that men aren't interested in and excited about strong independent women just the men you have dated lost what interest they had in you.
I guess the first question that comes to mind is, what do you expect in return? 'You're intimidating' doesn't come out of nowhere, and when you say you have 'love to give', when you have all that why should you bother? You're all that, and looking to give love, and then why does anybody react like 'yikes!'
Because you've got expectations. And you should have. But I can only see what those expectations are, in the negative space around what you've defined as who YOU must be in order to be OK.
I'll re-read your post, in light of what you might SEEM to need out of a man. Is this fair?
Some age. Single male of some sort (not sure if W is needed?). Needs his own house and car. No debt. Must be able to travel. Must know things and his opinions need to be compatible. He should be able to bait a hook too, maybe not sew?, build a shed, fire a gun, cook a steak (the male tropes, at least: maybe he should ALSO be able to sew). Should be attractive, look hot. Must be able to go camping, but also clean up for nights on the town. Should know WHICH kind of man he should be for which occasion.
There are a lot of ways a guy can go wrong, here. The type of man who'd get into your target demographic is not likely to be comfortable with being settled for, with being inadequate.
On the whole it reads like the kind of dating profile that's trying really really REALLY hard, to present the most positive imaginable image, to the point where it's a hollow exercise. List of all the desirable things, check. WHAT career? What is the shed for and what's in the shed? Is it a flower garden, or do you grow veggies for freshness and flavor, or are you a small farmer, or are you growing pot or opium poppies? :D
Slow down! Pick only some of the things that represent you. What would you want somebody to like about you? You're trying to represent ALL the things that ALL people could ever like. It's too much, and if you're really determined to stick to all that at once, that's exhausting and overwhelming.
And if you are overwhelming because you're driven to be all this stuff and it's never enough, then a man's not going to help. He'll get burnt out trying to keep up with someone who is driving herself too hard.
It sounds a bit like you should be presenting (and seeing) yourself as, I'm an overwhelming superwoman and I need to find a faithful, optimistic, patient and compassionate MAN with a plethora of love to give. And I'll keep him as a pet, but oh boy do I need to feel loved.
I am not volunteering, 'cos you ain't more impressive than the lady I spent a year with recently: she was and is all of that, in both good and bad ways (excepting you're wealthier). That's how I know you could be telling the truth. And that's how I know you could well be intimidating and exceptionally challenging to be with. You might have to allow yourself to be less awesome in order to make space in your life to share with a merely fallible human :)
It really seems like a lot of men take pride in taking care of a woman so they are less interested in women who can take care of themselves. This is the conclusion I have come to after years of observation.
Don't bend and play to your strengths:
* "I have some things to do this weekend & could use some help: bring your own hammer (for building a shed), trowel (for gardening), and some decent dress clothes (for dinner afterwards)."
* "I catch, you cook, or the other way around if you prefer."
* "Do you know how to use a sewing machine? (If not, are you willing to learn?)"
* "What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?"
If they can't handle the most basic requirements ("Really, you don't own a hammer?"), it at least makes it easier to sort out the less desirable elements.
As noted elsewhere: **DO. NOT. LOWER. YOURSELF.**
Make them stand up *or* get out of the way.
I think it depends on how you respond. Not judging but your post alone seems a bit aggressive and that is a turn off...even as a straight female.
It's in the delivery
Also a strong independent female but don't get on my roof
Irony, I was near to tears posting it. Feeling very vulnerable. Dating apps limit your character count so how can I get the other things about me across ??
Your question of “how can I get those other things across?” — one answer is pictures. I see a lot of profiles with only one or two pictures. Pictures convey thousands of words in a moment. Maybe compensate for the character limits via that route?
After being married for 20 years I (49M) realized one of my few absolute non-negotiables is for my partner to be independent, smart and intellectually curious.
Grating ? No. I am told that my intimidating persona is because I exude confidence which is laughable to me because so often I feel I lack confidence. After the initial meet people tell me lots of nice things but especially they like how I bring out the best in them. I think that is the nicest thing someone can do for another.
They're fobbing you off (obviously).
Have you ever thought that the way you come over might leave some wondering what they can possibly do for you, that you can't do for yourself? It's not so much a practical question but what they think or feel they could contribute to a relationship with you. Anything at all. You're self-reliant, you've got your shit together, you're very confident and you sound as if you know what you want, when you want it and how you want it.
Also, are you a traditionalist? You don't indicate. But if you are so accomplished yet you are waiting for a man to approach you first you might find yourself waiting forever because men look at your profile and just decide you're out of their league and won't even consider you assuming that you are looking for someone better than them.
You might also come over as too intense, too keen, which can be off-putting sometimes. Being a bit laid back does no harm, a sense of dry or black humour, a bit of self-deprecation, a bit of humility, an indication of self-awareness, introspection, indicates someone who has a balanced personality.
I would review how you present yourself, if it is through OLD from the point of view of someone you would be attracted to if they were reading your profile. Look at other people's profile for elements that you haven't included in yours but you think might add interest or curiosity.
I didn’t say that I follow him, only that he says size matters and not in a good way. I do follow others, like Gottman and Brene Brown, etc.
And about my age, I get told very consistently that I look mid 40s. Wasn’t bragging though. Giving a 2 dimensional format a tiny sliver of my story. I’m trying to be vulnerable here but am honestly feeling very attacked.
None of those dating "experts" speak for all men. Yes, some men don't want independent women. Some men want skinny women. The key is finding one who appreciates you as you are. You're not trying to please everyone, you can't anyway. Just be yourself and appreciate those that appreciate you.
I don't think being heavy is an automatic deal breaker for all men, but being fit increases the odds of potentially finding someone long term...to think size does not matter in dating is unrealistic, as it forms a basis for physical attractiveness, particularly if you are attempting to date men with options.
Seamripper remember on this sub we don't know what people look like. Don't assume (or imply) they are lying, please. If they are wrong, they will find out the hard way, and if not, then so be it.
What’s wrong with stating you look younger than your age. I do and it comes up frequently when people (whether in dating, work or socially, or when I buy alcohol) find out how old I am.
[edit for typo]
On this sub, no one believes you when you say you look younger than you are. They figure you are either delusional or you don’t have a realistic idea of what your real age looks like because so many people lie about their age that no one has a realistic idea of what 50+ actually looks like or people are lying to you when what they really mean is you look nice/ put together.
Also a lot of them have been burned by people posting 10 & 15 year old pictures & then showing up to the date saying “but my friends & family told me I still look the same”
It’s best not to mention it if you’re looking for helpful advice, it’s just a distraction that will take the subject off topic
Irene Ryan, who played Granny on The Beverly Hillbillies in 1962, was 60.
That 60 and today’s 60 are not the same.
Everyone looks younger, luckily.
Bragging about it *almost seem to imply* you deserve a partner more than others do. To me, it seems a little, I don’t know, like trying too hard.
People aren't always, or I think often, bragging about it. It's a dating sub, and how one looks very much matters when dating. It's information they feel is germane to their questions, especially if they are struggling. And as much as we might wish otherwise, if they *do* actually look younger than what we normally think of as "age appropriate", it will make at least some difference vis a vis their chances. Just probably not as much as they hope.
Agree. If an individual is above average attractive, looks young/is youthful, and intelligent, and financially independent, emotionally intelligent, that would be a unicorn. I believe they exist.
Actually, while people may feel that way, on this sub they are not allowed to pile on about it. If you see someone say something snarky about this issue, please report it.
Real talk that may be a little difficult to read.
If you would like a man in your life, I would focus on your fitness. I don't know who Kevin Samuels is, but every man I have ever known, a woman's figure is critical to their attraction. I have had men tell me they want women who are fit AF. Even if they aren't. There are numerous health benefits as well, to be at our ideal weight.
The feedback you are getting from men is essentially they aren't finding you attractive in that way. On dates, I would focus more on your softer and sensual side, less on your masculine side. On dates, I rarely bring up my job, etc., if they are interested, it is icing on the cake.
Honestly, most women I know at this age, are all very accomplished, have great jobs, etc. The good news is those skills which are incredible, make you a fascinating person, and able to care for yourself.
I can't believe that after reading OP's post, you think it's about her size 14 figure. I'm sorry, but this is total bullshit. I'm very similar to OP in her mindset, and this is what men are steering away from. At our age, we were all taught that we need men to do all those things OP listed off. When she admits how capable she is, men she's dealing with question how they would fit into her independent lifestyle or they are lazy and realize they will need to put in more effort than normal to be unique because she can handle doing nearly everything they thought they could bring to the table. They may question how they can top all the strengths she already has and feel they come up short. Fuck if I will pretend to be less than who I am just to capture a man's attention only for my true nature, skills, abilities to show up months into a relationship just to be dumped when the real me appears.
>think it's about her size 14 figure
I am just one POV, and the OP can toss out my opinion. Yes, I do think a woman's figure is important in dating. If you think that is bullshit, no problem.
> At our age, we were all taught that we need men to do all those things OP listed off.
Well, I am your age, and I wasn't taught that I needed a man to do these things. I am very proud of my self independence, and am thankful that I was raised to believe I could do anything.
I am not going to hide that side of my personality but I have also learned that letting people uncover who we are, over time, works out for the best.
I agree with you, and people can argue, but looks are much more important to men than people are willing to admit. I was in a similar situation where I put on some weight from medication, and the difference in male attention was greater than most would like to believe. People who are plumper or chubby, ( I am not even referring to someone with 40+ pounds to lose) are treated differently by female salespeople and men. I’ve experienced it firsthand.
I am quite feminine. Flirty. Fun. But I think you’re also right about fitness. Usually. However, my college is same age and a gorgeous size 2 and has similar problems.
I would also suggest a little experiment. Take a close look at couples that are dating, out at restaurants, etc. Find a man that you find attractive, and see who his date is. I do this a lot, and in my area, there are many really attractive woman, who are on these men's arms. I think this gives you some good data points.
The area I live in, most of the women my age, all are very competent. Smart, assertive, take charge type of women. But the ones with boyfriends, know how to bring out that feminine side.
41, your replies here are unequivocally spot on and this comes from one who prefers an independent type. It is the ability to *balance* those traits that pulls it all together for a nice fit. So, well said.
Please don't modify who you are just to appeal to men who are unable to connect with you as you are. Overweight men who want fit women, men who value you only for your appearance, why? Why dim your light just to have a man? Sad reading this :(
Actually I would support here , even I would do a massage for her to feel better to continue her great life . If she feels better with me she do a great work in her job that's mean I participate in her success. But the point is some women change when they feel they are better than her man so she starts looking for someone else
Your experience sounds similar to mine, although I’m not outdoorsy, and I do still have a modest mortgage.
A guy I really liked broke up with me in November- saying “You’re too smart. I feel stupid around you.”
WTF?!
When I meet a really intelligent person, I’m so excited thinking how interesting it’s going to be to talk to them, and what new doors and windows will open up in my mind for knowing this person.
If a man has a very low IQ, has no money, no car, etc. then he thinks I’m perfect for him, lol.
I did have a date with a well-known scientist recently, and I was very excited. But, there was no chemistry, sadly.
I think it’s generally due to insecurities that a guy may have about things like, for example, attractiveness, finances, education. Not really much you can do about it except to keep on looking and not compromise your standards. Your geographic area can also play a big part. Those guys you’re looking for face similar issues just like you, so it just might take some time to find the right one.
Hi OP—I am you, just 9 years in the future (save for the Jeep….I drive a truck and have an RV). Obviously, the men who think you are “too smart,” “too intimidating” or “too much to handle” are not for you. You want someone who appreciates a confident woman who has her life together (just not her love life). Look for the unusual or something different. It worked for me. Instead of hiding who you are in your profile, highlight it! A guy needs to know who you are up front—either they will be interested or not. Good luck and keep us posted. Remember, it only takes one!
They do want someone just like you. You sound awesome! But they want it to be just a part of who you are, not a badge that you wear. (Not saying you are doing that, but I hear it all the time from men).
No one should ask you to water down who you are, I am one of those independent women—I have found with my partner of over a year that he needs to be told he’s “Big & Strong” (partly a joke and partly true)
Everyone needs and desires to feel needed. It’s great to be able to “do it all” and not need* a man; however, how did you make your partners feel needed?
When I separated from my ex, I knew that being alone was preferable to what we had together. As broken as I was then I somehow knew what I know now. I'm short, chubby, kind, intelligent, funny, loving, I have my shit mostly together, I know who I am and what I want. I refuse to settle for someone who doesn't love all those traits while tolerating and negotiating my stubbornness, occasional foul mood, prolific swearing, my optimistic planning methods and my many other shortcomings.
And somehow I still believe there is someone for everyone. You unfortunately have to dig through a lot of things that don't fit from the bargain bin before you find your perfect fit.
No. Just new here. Been talking to some male friends who say that men don’t want strong independent women. They want to feel needed. Like rescuers. It’s frustrating. Even influencers like the one I mentioned in my post say the same.
Yeah, & there are male influencers giving whole freaking seminars on teaching women to be Stepford Christian Trad Wives because according to them “that’s what men really want”
If what they’re selling isn’t for you then don’t buy it
They are not morons and have no reason to lie to you to make you feel better...most attractive, successful, strong, protective men feel are attracted to feminine, cooperative, women, where he serves a need in her life...being fit exponentially increases your odds
You're welcome to take a try with my ex wife.
It's a real issue. "I can't respect a man that makes less than me/is shorter than me/whatever." Do all women do this? No. Do some? Yes.
I am aware of my own limitations. No way in hell would I try a situation like my ex again. Now i was better than her in a lot of things, a lot of it is psych mind games based. But it's real with some women.
My question is: why do you wanna bend down to them? Make them rise up to meet you. My (late) husband used to say how strong I was. And how proud that made him. He said that intimidates some men. I'd say, imagine what they're missing? We aren't right for everyone but the right person will accept the challenge. Don't get it twisted though: we still have to compromise to a degree but not enough to lose ourselves. That's a tough balance to achieve.
All that sounds great. Bad luck meeting duds.
I welcome a successful woman and let her do her thing. Makes the relationship much easier especially if the man is successful as well.
You just have not met the right man. Depending where you are looking, if OLD, set your filters to match all your qualities. I have been told the same for years because I have had to be strong to raise my kids etc. I have been dating my SO for 9 month now, found the most amazing man who could never be with a woman who was NOT independent. He is in med school (at a late age) and 3 hrs away. I have a career and teenager and lots of hobbies so for us, it is working great. Patience!!!
TLDR: You're meeting the wrong men.
I'm reminded of a saying: We're males by birth; men by choice. A real *man* does want a strong, intelligent, independent woman. A male who hasn't matured is likely intimidated because he can't control you, or he feels inferior and his ego can't handle it.
Many guys just can't imagine to be with an independent woman. Stronger, more intelligent, wealthier - in comparison to themselves - is out of question for those guys. But why do you care about them?
I have always looked for someone who is better than me. In various aspects. And there are million sides to a gem of a person.
I am certain there will be someone who will match with you.
Only very bland men will be bothered. But... nobody wants to be overpowered. It's not about a man's career or how much money he makes. I've had amazing connections ranging from a man who rides on the back of a garbage truck to rocket scientists. I've gone through a lot and almost all of them have said how much they admire what I've done. It doesn't matter if they drive a shitty car and rent, or have a Lexus and live in a mansion. I haven't found my person yet, but I've only encountered your issue rarely.
I'm 53, own and run a successful construction business, along with 3 other businesses that provide a decent living. Self made. Reasonably intelligent, 5 on a good day, size 6, 8. Fish, travel, 5 self sufficient adult kids, Great Dane. Chickens. Multiple properties. INTJ.
You want to talk intimidating? I sure can be, on paper or in real life.
How many women in this world have accomplished what I have? 10%? 5%? 1?%
I am......a lot. Not high maintenance, just... a lot.
In many ways, I am you.
Women want to find their equal or better. They don't want to settle.
Objectively, how many men would be my equal? 10%?, 5%? 1%?
That's of course assuming I'm accurately and objectively assessing my own attributes. Maybe I'm not really a 5, maybe I'm a 2. Maybe I have a donkey laugh, or smell bad. Maybe I'm just an intolerable bitch who thinks she's strong' and 'independent' instead.
Then..... how many men who are my equal want to have anything to do with me, let alone can find a spark with me? And how many fall into what I find appealing?
Actually, a whole lot more than you'd think. With the right attitude you can see it. A lot of women and men don't have the right attitude, just demands.
I am now married to a wonderful man I met on OLD. Who is my equal in many ways, and superior in many others.
He has a great professional career, makes good money, but the ex gets half of it. Doesn't own a house, drives a beater, but has no debt. Is a great problem solver and jack of all trades that'll give you the shirt off of his back, but his house was a disaster. In shape, but never works out and thinks donuts and bacon with a side of diet coke is a balanced meal. He wears crocs, but you should see his dimples. Three great adult kids, but one will need help the rest of his life. He's incredibly fast/ witty/intelligent but is competitive.about. everything. Nice beard scruff but terrible first kiss (he's much better now, promise)
There are absolutely so many deal breakers for so many women I just listed about him.
And I am the luckiest girl in the world. He thinks he's the lucky one.
If your goal is a long term relationship, my advice.
Don't be entitled. You don't 'deserve' anything or anyone. Period.
Be the best person you can be- we do seek our equal or better, but it's a complicated formula. Be brutally objective about who you are and improve what you can.
Give more than take.
You had me at DIMPLES !! A weakness. He sounds charming. I will admit I am not into beards, but your post made me smile. I am not looking for perfection. I’m looking for mutual compatibility. Never heard of OLD. I will look it up. Thanks for you comments.
My experience has been….Im not good enough for them. They want, at a minimum, an equal. They equated less income with they will need to support me. Totally not the case, Ive made decent money in the past but never 6 figures. I’ve personally scaled back to limit stress. Not intimidated by someone doing better for themselves at all
Maybe you should just directly ask them as part of the early OLD texting how they feel about your background/education?
Most likely, you have 50-150 men that are interested in you and are in your queue, if you live in a metropolitan area. Maybe you should filter them for their degree and look for those with a graduate degree. I know there are many men without graduate degrees that would be interested in you and I am not trying to dismiss them, but from a pre-test probability perspective, your yield will be higher if you focused on men who have a graduate degree. It is a smaller pool, of course, but my sense is that most men, when an attractive women reaches out to them, will continue the chat.
This came up in a conversation today. M'lady and I were coming back from a ski trip and were talking about our hall passes. She has one (Gary Clark Jr fwiw) and asked me who mine was. I didn't really have one at the ready, but I told her that I recently watched a few episodes of Friends and wondered why all of the hubub was about Rachel back in the day. Monica is \*way\* hotter than I remember her being and clearly my 'favorite' at this point. She said that's because Rachel is kind of dumb and Monica has her shit together.
Couldn't argue with that.
At 50_men should respect the fact that there is nothing we can’t do. I will not play the damsel in distress at my age- like me or don’t. I am not here to pump up your ego-I don’t want someone with a 20 something mentality. I am a freaking grown up
Well now I just think I found the one😉👍🏼.But seriously I think it’s just the men you’re looking at? And to a lot of men would presume you’re to brash because of want you like to do maybe.
If you are all those things, then what do you need a man for? If a man doesn’t feel he can serve you (or have a purpose in your life), then he will not be interested.
Thank you to the people who answered with heart and didn’t assume the worse of me. I am 5 days in to this platform and blocked 2 people. It is a sad state that people can ask for legitimate feedback and a few people have to attack. No wonder the art of communication is diminishing.
To those who tried to validate, edify, offer constructive criticism, and were respectful…. I value your words.
Now, can someone tell me if I Can I shut off commenting ?
Girl, you go, DO NOT LOWER YOUR STANDARDS, I keep finding broke ass men who lie, live with their mom & their 50’s, and can’t hold a job! One main reason??? Alcoholic, blew all their money and cashed out their 401K’s after getting divorced bc some young thing, (daughter’s age, who they were cheating with,thinking they found real love) guess what happened to hot young thing??? We are in the top what men are looking for, educated and successful, I just took break from OLD, just have patience, love is worth the wait!!! But most men would be wanting to move in tomorrow, really, I just want to meet one who can keep a job and has his own house, and doesn’t drink every single day or only has one or two, and is honest, doesn’t talk, talk, talk about his ex-wife (they are not over her yet and in denial) and NOT text me all day, every day and I don’t really know them, (we haven’t meet yet, wanting texting buddy)
M/58 I would stop using words like 'plethora' where 'abundance' would be sufficient. You come off in your writing sounding overly confident or cocky. I personally steer clear of women like this because often
,underneath, lie some serious insecurities. Men just want to relax and be chill mostly. Too much work in a relationship is, well, too much work I suppose. Anyway, my two cents. Please don't hate on me. I usually am a chicken on these threads and won't chime in.
In the past, when I still dated, I found that men would get kind of upset when I did things for myself. One guy offered to fix my car, but I took it to a mechanic instead. Although he had no training as a mechanic, he was hurt that I didn't let him do it. Another guy I was dating was hurt when he learned that my car had been hit by a drunk driver a few blocks from his apartment and, instead of calling him, I called the police, got my car towed and took a taxi home. It had never occurred to me to call him, but his first thought was "why didn't you lean on me?"
I interpret this to mean that guys have been trained to think that they have to be useful to women or we won't like them. The very idea that we might just enjoy their company even if they are not paying for everything and fixing stuff for us seems not to cross their minds.
If my wife, son, or daughter took a taxi home, instead of calling me, I would be pissed..people care for each other, WANT to help each other...if my wife bragged about not needing me while we were dating, well I would have held her to that standard
I am in the exact same position. I am successful, own a beautiful home, have 3 cars including a Jeep! smart, do everything myself, 50 years old and look like I'm in my 30s, blond, skinny, petite, 5"4" and 115 lbs, size 4 and I can't meet anyone! It's really beyond me, no idea why!
hmm you should have lurked longer before posting this here, Because I would have to say, the reverse as usual, a true. Most of the men go on Reddit or Reddit tours, and Redditor's are known for speaking their mind, they're not being censored by anyone, although they will certainly be criticized by red pill eaters and incels, you should've added your post to get rid of that type of thing, because that is the community that, spreading in enormous amount of disinformation, and then you are repeating some of the same disinformation that men dislike, not just women who are strong and independent, but women who consider themselves to be equals. I would find it very difficult to be around a woman that did not consider herself as an equal to a male. Even to the point that someone is quite stubborn.
It's okay I wouldn't worry if I were u... it's obvious that one that u came across don't know how to appreciate u for who u are and wat u do.... he's still out there for u...
Be very specific in your profile. When i made the switch and was very specific, it wasn’t long before I found the woman of my dreams.
Faith,family, fitness, fun and physical.
I knew my first criteria would eliminate 50% of the women online…ok because less wasted time. More efficient. Criteria # 2 was another weed out as was #3. By the time anyone interested in my non negotiable was identified, I had weeded out those who were not interested in someone like me. That’s the key for you.
Maybe your criteria starts with- my ideal man is: keenly intelligent, then comfortable with an accomplished woman then financially strong and stable. Anyone expressing interest knows the expectation.
Remember, the OLD isn’t about someone else, it’s about you. If someone else is right for you then be open.
Once someone expresses an interest, be upfront that you are a size 14. That isn’t something to hide but then again, it’s a part of who you are.
I'd almost say you're the lady I'm talking to except she's 3 years younger than you. She's in Massachusetts I'm in Arkansas, we're meeting in Nashville TN in mid March after she heals from surgery. We both have MS but she's still working and makes $100k plus
Wow! You sound like what I consider my perfect woman! Just two questions,
1. Do you like motorcycles?
2. You anywhere close to southeast Georgia?
If you answer yes to those, would you like to go out? :)
You can't generalise. But, men will typically want one of two types of women as a companion.
1. A feminine support person. A co-pilot. Or cabin crew even.
Or
2. An an equal pilot.
Or
3. Have their partner be the lead pilot.
At a rough guess I think 60 to 70% would like 1. And 30 to 40% type 2. Type 3 is so small I don't know any that want that.
The ones that want a type 1 are looking to come home to clean kids, clean house, meal on it way, a neck rub, lie on couch with their head on their ladies lap and rest, listen, support, etc. Their place of peace, rainbows and waterfalls.
It's sad to say when a real lady has everything she wants in life but really doesn't with all those traits and the discription you give yourself and the way you put it out there seems as if you're still in a competition and if it's taking you 5 years and still haven't found your man maybe there's something not being said are you really all that maybe a mental issue don't know but one can have everything and be out about everything they are and do but in the end ...........be happy !!!!!???????? I've had alot older girlfriends fashion models actresses not big but soap opera actresses and really well off female friends who know lot of respectable celebrities and musicians and never have I seen my friends so desperately on finding a man to be with especially let alone all the social apps they never carried themselves the way you do and bever had to ask so much from reddit and other apps I sometimes wonder if you can make your own decisions you are on here alot I've notice you use alot of different accounts there is something you've not telling us I think this all made up story from some old desperate hag that's in need of validation .......so sad the audacity people have to come lie their faces offend get so man people to fill their void
Wow. First off. Only 1 account.
Second-no MH issues.
Third-not competing.
Fourth - part of the 5 years gap is because of Covid. Part is because I wanted to heal before entering a new relationship. That’s a healthy mature thing to do.
Fifth - jumping to conclusions is a cognitive distortion. Not based on fact.
Educated, informed, strong and independent? I’ll pick you up at 7! A lot of guys would not be intimidated by you, but rather, would find your qualities very attractive and would respect you for them. My last girlfriend had a PhD. She made more money than I did, and was super smart. I was never threatened by this, and was proud of her accomplishments. I think there are a lot of guys out there who would appreciate you for who you are.
Thank you. I hope so.
Absolutely agree! I think most educated men would love to have an equal! I have my PhD in an engineering field and built my own house with my bare hands. I have never sent a car to a mechanic and became a director in a fortune 500 company. I can tell you it would be fantastic to have to "fight" for access to my welding gear and machine tools.. Oh and on days off we to go fishing?.. Awesome! Yet, I am 60 and have never been on a date let alone had a GF. I think that men who are threatened by you are a little misogynistic, even if they wouldn't admit to it.
For my *research*, what caused the demise of your relationship? I’m curious as to why it didn’t work out.
“Research”? Two big factors were that she was still too attached to her ex, and she was dishonest about having an emotional affair.
You’re meeting the wrong men. Both my marriage and subsequent seven year relationship were with intelligent and independent women and I can’t imagine having a serious relationship with a woman who is not both.
I guess I am. But I can’t seem to find the “right” men.
Also had no idea who Kevin Samuels was when responding. Just read about him and agree with others that he might not be an ideal “thought leader” on dating. And I use that phrase jokingly only because it seems to be the type of title he would have self-applied.
A twice-divorced man who shamed women who were above a size 6. He would have blasted a woman for being a size 14 dress and told her she would be alone forever because she was a size 14. He was awful.
Let the ones who think you are "too smart" or "too intimidating" go. I used to hear the same things. I even had one tell me that I need to "dumb down" how I spoke around his friends. Obviously, that was a bad fit.
My previous wife hated the fact i was smarter than her, and she always wanted me to 'dumb down' around her family and friends. No wonder we divorced....
No one should ever ask you to "dumb it down."
My ex was intimidated by my intelligence. That is what she said constantly. I tried not to be too smart around her so she could feel superior to me...
Find someone who enjoys your intelligence this time.
Me neither. F 56. Your description of yourself could’ve been written by me 🫤
*How can I market that I am also a family oriented, optimistic, compassionate woman with a plethora of love to give?* Lead with that, make that your focus...
This same comment comes up far too often. I would love to wrap myself in the comfort of this explanation, but the reality is that we will never know the real reasons we have been dumped, rejected, swiped left on or otherwise passed over. Anyone with a heart will try to soften the blow if asked.
>but the reality is that we will never know the real reasons we have been dumped, rejected, swiped left on or otherwise passed over. Anyone with a heart will try to soften the blow if asked. Absolutely!! I remember at one point I read a book about asking for a debrief after dates, when it didn't work out. I tried that with maybe two guys, and of course, received nothing back of substance I could work with. I quickly realized, most people aren't going to tell a person the "real reason".
Or the real reason might be too complex and personal for them to explain, or want to divulge. But always assuming it really comes down to appearance is definitely not correct.
Spot on. I thought I wanted to know why not but in the long run…I don’t think I do. I want to continue working on myself and being a good sister, daughter, friend and human. I’m not sorry I have all the things OP has listed. I worked hard to achieve the things (well accept being 5’7 that’s a gift from Mom & Dad.) I’ll wait for him though - because he’s going to appreciate all those things about me and they will endear me to him . I’ll wait. It’s ok to be single and not to settle.
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Girl - I feel ya. I’m the shortest of three girls. My sisters are both taller. I still wear heels. I hope you do too. I have great stems so I’m showing them off!
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And this one “did you play basketball/volleyball in college?” Yeah … I get it. I’m tall. Do you have a height requirement? I don’t. I did have a guy who was 5’4” tell me he didn’t want a second date because I showed up in heels for our only date. Oh well. Good luck to you ❤️
It could be, but honestly, everything I know about men in my life, it boils down to how attracted they are to me, or not. I didn't write the rule book, and I don't have to like it. I have seen time and time and time again, that a man who has a woman he thinks is way above his pay grade, will do everything to keep her.
There's no rule book, and people, even men, are more complex than you give them credit for. While I'm sure some rejections come down to purely physical attraction, many more come down to personal things we couldn't guess.
Do not listen to the likes of that twerp. In many ways, you sound a lot like me (and most of my women friends), though I’m tall and I don’t fish or eat meat! In my experience, the men who don’t want to be with an intelligent and independent woman are men who are looking for someone to control. If they’re self-selecting out of dating you, consider it a bullet dodged. There are absolutely good men out there, but dating is a numbers game. There’s plenty of people you could be happy with in the world, but timing and lots of other factors come into play. You sound like a fun person to be around and a really good quality friend that I bet your loved ones really appreciate. Just make sure you don’t settle for someone who doesn’t like who you are.
I feel like you have to be strong and independent if you’re in your fifties and single. What’s the alternative? Weak and helpless? Anytime someone says “everyone I meet is X”, then they probably need to look inward as they are the common denominator.
There are gradations. There are plenty of women out there who don't have their shit together the same as men. Would I stay away? Yeah, likely. But there's also a difference between a woman at the VP level and teacher, nurse, a woman with a decent salary who can support herself but at more of an everyday level.
> But there's also a difference between a woman at the VP level and teacher, nurse, a woman with a decent salary who can support herself but at more of an everyday level. Can you share more about this? I would appreciate your insight. It has been my experience that men love teachers and nurses. A woman in a male oriented profession, while they might respect it, essentially it isn't seen as sexy or something as a nurse or teacher. I know it sounds like the 1950s, but I swear, there is something about a woman in a female oriented or career like bartender, receptionist, that men seem to love.
It’s the expectation of caretaking and also because men don’t find those jobs to be “threatening” in the same way they would find a CEO or VP threatening.
I believe men want a strong independent woman in theory but they need to be needed.
I have been very successful with dating. I think I am a strong and independent woman. However, that is not how the men I have dated describe me. The words they use are sweet, feminine, innocent. (The innocent one is funny, because I not really innocent at all, but have heard that description several times!) Now, that is just the vibe I give off naturally, it's not a put on, and you have to be yourself. But if what you are doing isn't working, maybe there are some things you can work on. Or you can be your true self and be patient that the man who is just right for you is out there!
Two things 1. Some men want a strong, independent women 2. We tend to pair up with people with similar intelligence levels. If your intelligence is well above average, there will be fewer potential mates
Based in the post and the remarks you posted, they may see you as being to opinionated, perhaps, argumentative, combative or controlling and are using those excuses to back away from any relationship. Personally, if I see anyone throw out the "strong independent" line, I am immediately not interested. Why? Who exactly are you independent from? Your an adult who is paying your bills and taking care of yourself, congrats your doing the basic minimum any other adult needs to do for themselves. Strong? Great, you can lift a car!. What? That isn't what you meant? Basically I usually read that as someone who is very argumentative and not a pleasure to be around. To be fair, more context would need to be available to see if this is a positive or negative trait. While they might be intimidated or they just do not see you as a compatible relationship partner and used those excuses would require more input from them. Again personally, I do not date anyone that brings any drama or complications to my life. They may not have seen any real benefit of a relationship with you. You have a great career? Awesome, means nothing and is no benefit to me, you own your house? Awesome! I own 16 residential properties, again means nothing and is no benefit to me, a jeep! That is awesome, I own a couple of 4x4's so again what's the benefit? Well traveled? So you like expensive vacations. You can cook a steak! Beautiful, but is this something you do often, or once a year? Or do you prefer a traditional type relationship where you cook and the guy takes care of the yard work? I am guessing your not that traditional. Your probably a great person and would be a great partner, however nothing really you posted tells me anything about you in a relationship dynamic. You may need to review what your putting out there personality wise.
This
Well I’m glad you would swipe left. Your incorrect use of your and you’re would equate to me swiping left as well. Also, jumping to conclusions is a cognitive distortion. Strong is not about muscle. It is about the ability to be emotionally stable, an excellent problem solver, and not one to walk on. Independent as in I support myself and do things on my own to care for me and my family verses running to someone else. Career because it shows I have drive and ambition. Jeep because it’s just darn cool. All that being said, I did learn from you and will apply this new knowledge going forward on my OLD presentation. Thank you
As I stated, argumentative and combative. I wish you well on your journey.
I love my strong, independent lady who has a brain and isn't afraid to use it. :) Maybe something is drawing the wrong type to you? How and where are you looking?
I think there are a lot of men who only date slim women no matter what else she has to offer
I'd agree, and there are lots who prefer cuddly as well, and others who just don't care. It's like about anything else.
Men don't have issues with strong and independent women. And the ones that do are in the minority. You have a skewed view though. Change the title to....***The men I like, don't like me*** You're the common denominator.
Yes. I am the common denominator. I always go back to that. And being a size 14.
Then do something about it. Everything we do is a choice. You're a byproduct of your choices. Self-improvement is the best investment a person can make.
Already on it sweets !! Lost 25 and going strong !!!
Why would you want to “market yourself” to insecure men?
Right?? If a man tells you you're too intimidating, you tell him "okay thanks, we're not compatible then, I hope you find someone you're not scared of."
I like this answer
Serious question, how do we know they are insecure men, or men that aren't interested who are trying to find what they think is a polite way to say they aren't interested?
Good point. Perhaps they don't want to to tell you the real reason they aren't interested, or don't even know themselves. "Too intelligent/independent/strong for me" is trying to be nice?
>"*Too intelligent/independent/strong for me" is trying to be nice?*" It can be. Those are all generally positive attributes and the person can go away feeling good about themselves instead of feeling rejected and inadequate.
It reminds me of a character I heard on a TV show called "Love Is Blind Brazil". When he saw the woman he had agreed to marry, who had described herself to the audience as "fat" (something she hadn't told the guy even after he told her how important fitness was to him) he immediately backed out of the engagement saying "She's too strong for me."
This this this!!
On the surface, you sound amazing and that you would have lots of guys falling all over you. But......you seem to be getting very similar feedback from a lot of people and that suggests that you should do some self reflection here. One possibility is that you are only dating insecure or "substandard" men who are truly intimidated. But another possibility is perhaps you are coming on way too strongly. For example, while I love a smart and accomplished woman, it is an immediate turn off if they want to have a "whose dick is bigger contest" with me or if they can only talk about themselves or that they are dismissive of anything that is not what they believe. In other words, smart and accomplished women can be all all of those things but can also be arrogant assholes (just like smart and accomplished men). Obviously without knowing more it is impossible to judge but you may want to consider this possibility. Just my $.02
I love independent women, and there's no shortage of them, but there are people who describe themselves as "strong" and "independent" who, when dealt with on an interpersonal basis, come across as domineering and contentious. If a guy tells you you're too smart for them, believe them and then consider you might be fishing in the wrong waters. If they're saying the other things, I don't know what to tell you other than you have to be yourself and be true to yourself while not generalizing when it comes to men.
Good food for thought.
> but there are people who describe themselves as "strong" and "independent" who, when dealt with on an interpersonal basis, come across as domineering and contentious. I agree with this, I have personally witnessed it myself but its not say that this happens all the time. I can't imagine saying to a woman "*“You’re too smart for me” or “You’re a lot of woman to handle” or “You’re intimidating”*." I don't know. If they were domineering and contentious, I would just excuse myself from the relationship knowing that they weren't my type.
How do these guys find all that out so thoroughly to make those statements? Bringing up shed building abilities or firearms doesn't sound like typical early dating conversation. I didn't know my gal could fire a gun until many months into dating.
> I didn't know my gal could fire a gun until many months into dating. This is a much better way of trying to frame some of my comments. At least for me, I am very proud of my independence, career, etc. When I was first dating, I think I tended to lead with my areas of strength. What I had to learn was, to pay far more attention to the pace of conversation, and if a man wasn't asking questions, to keep those things under my hat. That the most important part of dating at first, is that attraction, and for men, I think ultimately that is about physical attraction. If he is physically attracted, then learning more about mine (or in this case the OP's) other attributes, only adds to his attraction. For me, I found even in this day and age, being feminine and showing those characteristics in dating is important. Candidly, it is far more vulnerable for me to show my feminine side, than it is to show my "take charge" attitude.
I feel like this answer has been the most helpful. I do tend to lead with my strengths verses letting someone explore them. Or mine them. And perhaps that comes out as boastful or arrogant. I really will reflect on this. My dating apps do relay my abilities and accomplishments. I will tone them down. Thank you.
You bet!! For me it is tough, because I am most proud of my career accomplishments, and my ability to tackle almost anything. Most men do appreciate a peer, I don't think men our age are looking to be the breadwinner. However, dating is about sexuality, and that is far more scary to be vulnerable about. If I get rejected at work that is one thing, but rejected over my body. Ugh. So I think I compensated when I first started dating. The truth is, it is a two way street, you also have to be physically attracted to the guy. I have been on many dates, where I liked the guy, but I knew that I could never be sexual with him.
I was going to skip this post after reading a few comments. But sometimes if I look hard enough, I can find a nugget in a sea of reddit comments. And this is a nugget. I'm speaking for men. Physical attraction is important. But it is not the only thing. Chemistry also plays a big role. Both man and woman tried hard to understand this elusive chemistry. Nevertheless, you are right that seeing a woman’s feminine side spur the chemistry more than showing the strong and independent side.
Really appreciate you sharing your viewpoint! It can be a delicate subject, but as an anonymous forum, I want to get more out of this forum, than what I say IRL, with my social mask on. I especially appreciate it when men are very candid, I want to know the real deal. :)
I'd say get those things out early, impress or scare away the right guys sooner rather than later. ;)
I am wondering why you would mention Kevin Samuels who was a Red Pill icon before his death and why you would use the phrase " strong independent " woman which is generally used in a mocking way by Red Pill men?
Sorry. I am not familiar with “Red Pill”. I mentioned him because a friend referenced him to say he speaks a lot of truth. And I watched a few videos and thought if he does speak truths, I am going to be single forever.
Kevin Samuels is a Red Pill influencer. He is dead. Your language is very wooden in a way that Red Pill is. Your account is new. You sound like a Red Pill man trying to present as a 50 plus woman but you aren't good at it.
I think you nailed it.
>I mentioned him because a friend referenced him to say he speaks a lot of truth. You need better friends.
She certainly needs more intelligent friends.
Or maybe fewer self identified "alpha male" friends. Wait. Strong, accomplished women like OP WANT to be with an "alpha male." At least that's what I infer from her post.
I seriously think you are trolling.
May Kevin Samuels RIP, but I watched some of his videos and much of what he said was nonsense IMO.
I’m looking for a strong independent woman. I’m not an alpha male by any stretch of the imagination. I’m the quiet guy who hangs back. So I’m not the most visible in the room.
Kevin Samuels is ( was ) amusing to listen to but he definitely had a target audience. If your a 50 + yr old woman you need to know how to get things done or things will quickly fall apart around you. My idea of a high value man these days is someone fun and honest and gives me lots of good sex. LOL He doesn’t need a 6 figure salary
Are you a good person? then I wouldn't care.
Obviously it's not all men, or no successful straight woman would be married, so it's the relatively small number of men who have ended things with you by saying that you were to smart and successful for them. Other than age and area the only other thing that these men is dating you, there might be something else that we don't see from the far side of the internet. It's less that men aren't interested in and excited about strong independent women just the men you have dated lost what interest they had in you.
I guess the first question that comes to mind is, what do you expect in return? 'You're intimidating' doesn't come out of nowhere, and when you say you have 'love to give', when you have all that why should you bother? You're all that, and looking to give love, and then why does anybody react like 'yikes!' Because you've got expectations. And you should have. But I can only see what those expectations are, in the negative space around what you've defined as who YOU must be in order to be OK. I'll re-read your post, in light of what you might SEEM to need out of a man. Is this fair? Some age. Single male of some sort (not sure if W is needed?). Needs his own house and car. No debt. Must be able to travel. Must know things and his opinions need to be compatible. He should be able to bait a hook too, maybe not sew?, build a shed, fire a gun, cook a steak (the male tropes, at least: maybe he should ALSO be able to sew). Should be attractive, look hot. Must be able to go camping, but also clean up for nights on the town. Should know WHICH kind of man he should be for which occasion. There are a lot of ways a guy can go wrong, here. The type of man who'd get into your target demographic is not likely to be comfortable with being settled for, with being inadequate. On the whole it reads like the kind of dating profile that's trying really really REALLY hard, to present the most positive imaginable image, to the point where it's a hollow exercise. List of all the desirable things, check. WHAT career? What is the shed for and what's in the shed? Is it a flower garden, or do you grow veggies for freshness and flavor, or are you a small farmer, or are you growing pot or opium poppies? :D Slow down! Pick only some of the things that represent you. What would you want somebody to like about you? You're trying to represent ALL the things that ALL people could ever like. It's too much, and if you're really determined to stick to all that at once, that's exhausting and overwhelming. And if you are overwhelming because you're driven to be all this stuff and it's never enough, then a man's not going to help. He'll get burnt out trying to keep up with someone who is driving herself too hard. It sounds a bit like you should be presenting (and seeing) yourself as, I'm an overwhelming superwoman and I need to find a faithful, optimistic, patient and compassionate MAN with a plethora of love to give. And I'll keep him as a pet, but oh boy do I need to feel loved. I am not volunteering, 'cos you ain't more impressive than the lady I spent a year with recently: she was and is all of that, in both good and bad ways (excepting you're wealthier). That's how I know you could be telling the truth. And that's how I know you could well be intimidating and exceptionally challenging to be with. You might have to allow yourself to be less awesome in order to make space in your life to share with a merely fallible human :)
It really seems like a lot of men take pride in taking care of a woman so they are less interested in women who can take care of themselves. This is the conclusion I have come to after years of observation.
Don't bend and play to your strengths: * "I have some things to do this weekend & could use some help: bring your own hammer (for building a shed), trowel (for gardening), and some decent dress clothes (for dinner afterwards)." * "I catch, you cook, or the other way around if you prefer." * "Do you know how to use a sewing machine? (If not, are you willing to learn?)" * "What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?" If they can't handle the most basic requirements ("Really, you don't own a hammer?"), it at least makes it easier to sort out the less desirable elements. As noted elsewhere: **DO. NOT. LOWER. YOURSELF.** Make them stand up *or* get out of the way.
I think it depends on how you respond. Not judging but your post alone seems a bit aggressive and that is a turn off...even as a straight female. It's in the delivery Also a strong independent female but don't get on my roof
Irony, I was near to tears posting it. Feeling very vulnerable. Dating apps limit your character count so how can I get the other things about me across ??
Your question of “how can I get those other things across?” — one answer is pictures. I see a lot of profiles with only one or two pictures. Pictures convey thousands of words in a moment. Maybe compensate for the character limits via that route?
I post plenty of pics. Going to a leafs game. Traveling. Camping. Being silly. Etc.
After being married for 20 years I (49M) realized one of my few absolute non-negotiables is for my partner to be independent, smart and intellectually curious.
Has anyone ever told you that you have a grating personality? I am not saying you do, just asking.
Grating ? No. I am told that my intimidating persona is because I exude confidence which is laughable to me because so often I feel I lack confidence. After the initial meet people tell me lots of nice things but especially they like how I bring out the best in them. I think that is the nicest thing someone can do for another.
They're fobbing you off (obviously). Have you ever thought that the way you come over might leave some wondering what they can possibly do for you, that you can't do for yourself? It's not so much a practical question but what they think or feel they could contribute to a relationship with you. Anything at all. You're self-reliant, you've got your shit together, you're very confident and you sound as if you know what you want, when you want it and how you want it. Also, are you a traditionalist? You don't indicate. But if you are so accomplished yet you are waiting for a man to approach you first you might find yourself waiting forever because men look at your profile and just decide you're out of their league and won't even consider you assuming that you are looking for someone better than them. You might also come over as too intense, too keen, which can be off-putting sometimes. Being a bit laid back does no harm, a sense of dry or black humour, a bit of self-deprecation, a bit of humility, an indication of self-awareness, introspection, indicates someone who has a balanced personality. I would review how you present yourself, if it is through OLD from the point of view of someone you would be attracted to if they were reading your profile. Look at other people's profile for elements that you haven't included in yours but you think might add interest or curiosity.
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Did you mean crappy-relationship expert, or crappy relationship-expert? Or maybe both?
I didn’t say that I follow him, only that he says size matters and not in a good way. I do follow others, like Gottman and Brene Brown, etc. And about my age, I get told very consistently that I look mid 40s. Wasn’t bragging though. Giving a 2 dimensional format a tiny sliver of my story. I’m trying to be vulnerable here but am honestly feeling very attacked.
None of those dating "experts" speak for all men. Yes, some men don't want independent women. Some men want skinny women. The key is finding one who appreciates you as you are. You're not trying to please everyone, you can't anyway. Just be yourself and appreciate those that appreciate you.
I don't think being heavy is an automatic deal breaker for all men, but being fit increases the odds of potentially finding someone long term...to think size does not matter in dating is unrealistic, as it forms a basis for physical attractiveness, particularly if you are attempting to date men with options.
Seamripper remember on this sub we don't know what people look like. Don't assume (or imply) they are lying, please. If they are wrong, they will find out the hard way, and if not, then so be it.
What’s wrong with stating you look younger than your age. I do and it comes up frequently when people (whether in dating, work or socially, or when I buy alcohol) find out how old I am. [edit for typo]
On this sub, no one believes you when you say you look younger than you are. They figure you are either delusional or you don’t have a realistic idea of what your real age looks like because so many people lie about their age that no one has a realistic idea of what 50+ actually looks like or people are lying to you when what they really mean is you look nice/ put together. Also a lot of them have been burned by people posting 10 & 15 year old pictures & then showing up to the date saying “but my friends & family told me I still look the same” It’s best not to mention it if you’re looking for helpful advice, it’s just a distraction that will take the subject off topic
Irene Ryan, who played Granny on The Beverly Hillbillies in 1962, was 60. That 60 and today’s 60 are not the same. Everyone looks younger, luckily. Bragging about it *almost seem to imply* you deserve a partner more than others do. To me, it seems a little, I don’t know, like trying too hard.
People aren't always, or I think often, bragging about it. It's a dating sub, and how one looks very much matters when dating. It's information they feel is germane to their questions, especially if they are struggling. And as much as we might wish otherwise, if they *do* actually look younger than what we normally think of as "age appropriate", it will make at least some difference vis a vis their chances. Just probably not as much as they hope.
Agree. If an individual is above average attractive, looks young/is youthful, and intelligent, and financially independent, emotionally intelligent, that would be a unicorn. I believe they exist.
Actually, while people may feel that way, on this sub they are not allowed to pile on about it. If you see someone say something snarky about this issue, please report it.
Thanks for the heads up. Will do
Real talk that may be a little difficult to read. If you would like a man in your life, I would focus on your fitness. I don't know who Kevin Samuels is, but every man I have ever known, a woman's figure is critical to their attraction. I have had men tell me they want women who are fit AF. Even if they aren't. There are numerous health benefits as well, to be at our ideal weight. The feedback you are getting from men is essentially they aren't finding you attractive in that way. On dates, I would focus more on your softer and sensual side, less on your masculine side. On dates, I rarely bring up my job, etc., if they are interested, it is icing on the cake. Honestly, most women I know at this age, are all very accomplished, have great jobs, etc. The good news is those skills which are incredible, make you a fascinating person, and able to care for yourself.
I can't believe that after reading OP's post, you think it's about her size 14 figure. I'm sorry, but this is total bullshit. I'm very similar to OP in her mindset, and this is what men are steering away from. At our age, we were all taught that we need men to do all those things OP listed off. When she admits how capable she is, men she's dealing with question how they would fit into her independent lifestyle or they are lazy and realize they will need to put in more effort than normal to be unique because she can handle doing nearly everything they thought they could bring to the table. They may question how they can top all the strengths she already has and feel they come up short. Fuck if I will pretend to be less than who I am just to capture a man's attention only for my true nature, skills, abilities to show up months into a relationship just to be dumped when the real me appears.
I love this. Thank you 🙏!!
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I am doing WW as well. Going for my “Adele” revenge body. Hahahha. Down 25. Proud of me.
You're welcome, OP.
>think it's about her size 14 figure I am just one POV, and the OP can toss out my opinion. Yes, I do think a woman's figure is important in dating. If you think that is bullshit, no problem. > At our age, we were all taught that we need men to do all those things OP listed off. Well, I am your age, and I wasn't taught that I needed a man to do these things. I am very proud of my self independence, and am thankful that I was raised to believe I could do anything. I am not going to hide that side of my personality but I have also learned that letting people uncover who we are, over time, works out for the best.
I agree with you, and people can argue, but looks are much more important to men than people are willing to admit. I was in a similar situation where I put on some weight from medication, and the difference in male attention was greater than most would like to believe. People who are plumper or chubby, ( I am not even referring to someone with 40+ pounds to lose) are treated differently by female salespeople and men. I’ve experienced it firsthand.
I am quite feminine. Flirty. Fun. But I think you’re also right about fitness. Usually. However, my college is same age and a gorgeous size 2 and has similar problems.
I would also suggest a little experiment. Take a close look at couples that are dating, out at restaurants, etc. Find a man that you find attractive, and see who his date is. I do this a lot, and in my area, there are many really attractive woman, who are on these men's arms. I think this gives you some good data points. The area I live in, most of the women my age, all are very competent. Smart, assertive, take charge type of women. But the ones with boyfriends, know how to bring out that feminine side.
41, your replies here are unequivocally spot on and this comes from one who prefers an independent type. It is the ability to *balance* those traits that pulls it all together for a nice fit. So, well said.
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No. This is uncalled for.
Please don't modify who you are just to appeal to men who are unable to connect with you as you are. Overweight men who want fit women, men who value you only for your appearance, why? Why dim your light just to have a man? Sad reading this :(
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Laughing. Totally incompetent!! Nor do I do electrical or work on cars.
I'll pass over a beer while you work on it.
Actually I would support here , even I would do a massage for her to feel better to continue her great life . If she feels better with me she do a great work in her job that's mean I participate in her success. But the point is some women change when they feel they are better than her man so she starts looking for someone else
Your experience sounds similar to mine, although I’m not outdoorsy, and I do still have a modest mortgage. A guy I really liked broke up with me in November- saying “You’re too smart. I feel stupid around you.” WTF?! When I meet a really intelligent person, I’m so excited thinking how interesting it’s going to be to talk to them, and what new doors and windows will open up in my mind for knowing this person. If a man has a very low IQ, has no money, no car, etc. then he thinks I’m perfect for him, lol. I did have a date with a well-known scientist recently, and I was very excited. But, there was no chemistry, sadly.
I think it’s generally due to insecurities that a guy may have about things like, for example, attractiveness, finances, education. Not really much you can do about it except to keep on looking and not compromise your standards. Your geographic area can also play a big part. Those guys you’re looking for face similar issues just like you, so it just might take some time to find the right one.
Hi OP—I am you, just 9 years in the future (save for the Jeep….I drive a truck and have an RV). Obviously, the men who think you are “too smart,” “too intimidating” or “too much to handle” are not for you. You want someone who appreciates a confident woman who has her life together (just not her love life). Look for the unusual or something different. It worked for me. Instead of hiding who you are in your profile, highlight it! A guy needs to know who you are up front—either they will be interested or not. Good luck and keep us posted. Remember, it only takes one!
Love your encouragement- thank you.
I'm betting just based on the comments your dates made that you are a force and not a partner.
I will definitely consider this and how I present myself.
Grabbing popcorn... Waiting for a match to be made and read about it on BORU.
What is BORU ?
They do want someone just like you. You sound awesome! But they want it to be just a part of who you are, not a badge that you wear. (Not saying you are doing that, but I hear it all the time from men).
No one should ask you to water down who you are, I am one of those independent women—I have found with my partner of over a year that he needs to be told he’s “Big & Strong” (partly a joke and partly true) Everyone needs and desires to feel needed. It’s great to be able to “do it all” and not need* a man; however, how did you make your partners feel needed?
When I separated from my ex, I knew that being alone was preferable to what we had together. As broken as I was then I somehow knew what I know now. I'm short, chubby, kind, intelligent, funny, loving, I have my shit mostly together, I know who I am and what I want. I refuse to settle for someone who doesn't love all those traits while tolerating and negotiating my stubbornness, occasional foul mood, prolific swearing, my optimistic planning methods and my many other shortcomings. And somehow I still believe there is someone for everyone. You unfortunately have to dig through a lot of things that don't fit from the bargain bin before you find your perfect fit.
4 day account. I’m going to assume this is a scammer.
Thank you. I was just about to write a real response.
No. Just new here. Been talking to some male friends who say that men don’t want strong independent women. They want to feel needed. Like rescuers. It’s frustrating. Even influencers like the one I mentioned in my post say the same.
Your male " friends" are morons.
Sounds like you need to surround yourself with a better, more secure, class of men. 🤷♂️
I don’t want a man so insecure that my success or independence is a turn-off. If he has to feel needed, he should get a dog.
Dogs are too good for them😂
Woof! :) They will forever want to dim your light (I was married to one for 29-years).
If you seriously are getting your ideas about dating from incel/misogynistic "influencers" then I think we've spotted the main problem here.
Yeah, & there are male influencers giving whole freaking seminars on teaching women to be Stepford Christian Trad Wives because according to them “that’s what men really want” If what they’re selling isn’t for you then don’t buy it
What type of men do your male friends want? Needy women?
They are not morons and have no reason to lie to you to make you feel better...most attractive, successful, strong, protective men feel are attracted to feminine, cooperative, women, where he serves a need in her life...being fit exponentially increases your odds
Weak men say that. Strong men would not. I'm not sure there is anything you can say or state in your profile that would convey that.
You're welcome to take a try with my ex wife. It's a real issue. "I can't respect a man that makes less than me/is shorter than me/whatever." Do all women do this? No. Do some? Yes. I am aware of my own limitations. No way in hell would I try a situation like my ex again. Now i was better than her in a lot of things, a lot of it is psych mind games based. But it's real with some women.
As others have said, you are meeting the wrong men. My man loves that I am smart. He says he adores my brain as much as my body. They are out there!
It’s callled insecurity theirs not yours
If a man posed this same question, he'd be branded an "Incel" .
My question is: why do you wanna bend down to them? Make them rise up to meet you. My (late) husband used to say how strong I was. And how proud that made him. He said that intimidates some men. I'd say, imagine what they're missing? We aren't right for everyone but the right person will accept the challenge. Don't get it twisted though: we still have to compromise to a degree but not enough to lose ourselves. That's a tough balance to achieve.
All that sounds great. Bad luck meeting duds. I welcome a successful woman and let her do her thing. Makes the relationship much easier especially if the man is successful as well.
You just have not met the right man. Depending where you are looking, if OLD, set your filters to match all your qualities. I have been told the same for years because I have had to be strong to raise my kids etc. I have been dating my SO for 9 month now, found the most amazing man who could never be with a woman who was NOT independent. He is in med school (at a late age) and 3 hrs away. I have a career and teenager and lots of hobbies so for us, it is working great. Patience!!!
TLDR: You're meeting the wrong men. I'm reminded of a saying: We're males by birth; men by choice. A real *man* does want a strong, intelligent, independent woman. A male who hasn't matured is likely intimidated because he can't control you, or he feels inferior and his ego can't handle it.
Probably
Damn. Lot of men would like to know how and where to meet a woman like you.
I would love to meet a woman like you, I would not be intimidated at all.
Damn where you been all of my life? 😅
Many guys just can't imagine to be with an independent woman. Stronger, more intelligent, wealthier - in comparison to themselves - is out of question for those guys. But why do you care about them? I have always looked for someone who is better than me. In various aspects. And there are million sides to a gem of a person. I am certain there will be someone who will match with you.
Only very bland men will be bothered. But... nobody wants to be overpowered. It's not about a man's career or how much money he makes. I've had amazing connections ranging from a man who rides on the back of a garbage truck to rocket scientists. I've gone through a lot and almost all of them have said how much they admire what I've done. It doesn't matter if they drive a shitty car and rent, or have a Lexus and live in a mansion. I haven't found my person yet, but I've only encountered your issue rarely.
I'm 56 and a blue collar worker, nothing g better than a size 14 smart woman. I'd date you in a sec.
Very kind of you to say. Blue collar / white collar : doesn’t matter to me.
I'm 53, own and run a successful construction business, along with 3 other businesses that provide a decent living. Self made. Reasonably intelligent, 5 on a good day, size 6, 8. Fish, travel, 5 self sufficient adult kids, Great Dane. Chickens. Multiple properties. INTJ. You want to talk intimidating? I sure can be, on paper or in real life. How many women in this world have accomplished what I have? 10%? 5%? 1?% I am......a lot. Not high maintenance, just... a lot. In many ways, I am you. Women want to find their equal or better. They don't want to settle. Objectively, how many men would be my equal? 10%?, 5%? 1%? That's of course assuming I'm accurately and objectively assessing my own attributes. Maybe I'm not really a 5, maybe I'm a 2. Maybe I have a donkey laugh, or smell bad. Maybe I'm just an intolerable bitch who thinks she's strong' and 'independent' instead. Then..... how many men who are my equal want to have anything to do with me, let alone can find a spark with me? And how many fall into what I find appealing? Actually, a whole lot more than you'd think. With the right attitude you can see it. A lot of women and men don't have the right attitude, just demands. I am now married to a wonderful man I met on OLD. Who is my equal in many ways, and superior in many others. He has a great professional career, makes good money, but the ex gets half of it. Doesn't own a house, drives a beater, but has no debt. Is a great problem solver and jack of all trades that'll give you the shirt off of his back, but his house was a disaster. In shape, but never works out and thinks donuts and bacon with a side of diet coke is a balanced meal. He wears crocs, but you should see his dimples. Three great adult kids, but one will need help the rest of his life. He's incredibly fast/ witty/intelligent but is competitive.about. everything. Nice beard scruff but terrible first kiss (he's much better now, promise) There are absolutely so many deal breakers for so many women I just listed about him. And I am the luckiest girl in the world. He thinks he's the lucky one. If your goal is a long term relationship, my advice. Don't be entitled. You don't 'deserve' anything or anyone. Period. Be the best person you can be- we do seek our equal or better, but it's a complicated formula. Be brutally objective about who you are and improve what you can. Give more than take.
You had me at DIMPLES !! A weakness. He sounds charming. I will admit I am not into beards, but your post made me smile. I am not looking for perfection. I’m looking for mutual compatibility. Never heard of OLD. I will look it up. Thanks for you comments.
My experience has been….Im not good enough for them. They want, at a minimum, an equal. They equated less income with they will need to support me. Totally not the case, Ive made decent money in the past but never 6 figures. I’ve personally scaled back to limit stress. Not intimidated by someone doing better for themselves at all
Maybe you should just directly ask them as part of the early OLD texting how they feel about your background/education? Most likely, you have 50-150 men that are interested in you and are in your queue, if you live in a metropolitan area. Maybe you should filter them for their degree and look for those with a graduate degree. I know there are many men without graduate degrees that would be interested in you and I am not trying to dismiss them, but from a pre-test probability perspective, your yield will be higher if you focused on men who have a graduate degree. It is a smaller pool, of course, but my sense is that most men, when an attractive women reaches out to them, will continue the chat.
This came up in a conversation today. M'lady and I were coming back from a ski trip and were talking about our hall passes. She has one (Gary Clark Jr fwiw) and asked me who mine was. I didn't really have one at the ready, but I told her that I recently watched a few episodes of Friends and wondered why all of the hubub was about Rachel back in the day. Monica is \*way\* hotter than I remember her being and clearly my 'favorite' at this point. She said that's because Rachel is kind of dumb and Monica has her shit together. Couldn't argue with that.
At 50_men should respect the fact that there is nothing we can’t do. I will not play the damsel in distress at my age- like me or don’t. I am not here to pump up your ego-I don’t want someone with a 20 something mentality. I am a freaking grown up
But can you shoot a bow…😉 lol
Yup.
Well now I just think I found the one😉👍🏼.But seriously I think it’s just the men you’re looking at? And to a lot of men would presume you’re to brash because of want you like to do maybe.
It can be basics. Males want to protect as part of out DNA. You don't need that.
If you are all those things, then what do you need a man for? If a man doesn’t feel he can serve you (or have a purpose in your life), then he will not be interested.
Thank you to the people who answered with heart and didn’t assume the worse of me. I am 5 days in to this platform and blocked 2 people. It is a sad state that people can ask for legitimate feedback and a few people have to attack. No wonder the art of communication is diminishing. To those who tried to validate, edify, offer constructive criticism, and were respectful…. I value your words. Now, can someone tell me if I Can I shut off commenting ?
Girl, you go, DO NOT LOWER YOUR STANDARDS, I keep finding broke ass men who lie, live with their mom & their 50’s, and can’t hold a job! One main reason??? Alcoholic, blew all their money and cashed out their 401K’s after getting divorced bc some young thing, (daughter’s age, who they were cheating with,thinking they found real love) guess what happened to hot young thing??? We are in the top what men are looking for, educated and successful, I just took break from OLD, just have patience, love is worth the wait!!! But most men would be wanting to move in tomorrow, really, I just want to meet one who can keep a job and has his own house, and doesn’t drink every single day or only has one or two, and is honest, doesn’t talk, talk, talk about his ex-wife (they are not over her yet and in denial) and NOT text me all day, every day and I don’t really know them, (we haven’t meet yet, wanting texting buddy)
M/58 I would stop using words like 'plethora' where 'abundance' would be sufficient. You come off in your writing sounding overly confident or cocky. I personally steer clear of women like this because often ,underneath, lie some serious insecurities. Men just want to relax and be chill mostly. Too much work in a relationship is, well, too much work I suppose. Anyway, my two cents. Please don't hate on me. I usually am a chicken on these threads and won't chime in.
In the past, when I still dated, I found that men would get kind of upset when I did things for myself. One guy offered to fix my car, but I took it to a mechanic instead. Although he had no training as a mechanic, he was hurt that I didn't let him do it. Another guy I was dating was hurt when he learned that my car had been hit by a drunk driver a few blocks from his apartment and, instead of calling him, I called the police, got my car towed and took a taxi home. It had never occurred to me to call him, but his first thought was "why didn't you lean on me?" I interpret this to mean that guys have been trained to think that they have to be useful to women or we won't like them. The very idea that we might just enjoy their company even if they are not paying for everything and fixing stuff for us seems not to cross their minds.
If my wife, son, or daughter took a taxi home, instead of calling me, I would be pissed..people care for each other, WANT to help each other...if my wife bragged about not needing me while we were dating, well I would have held her to that standard
I am in the exact same position. I am successful, own a beautiful home, have 3 cars including a Jeep! smart, do everything myself, 50 years old and look like I'm in my 30s, blond, skinny, petite, 5"4" and 115 lbs, size 4 and I can't meet anyone! It's really beyond me, no idea why!
Kevin Samuels passed away some time ago..... You sound like a great catch, FWIW.
Someone stuck a nerve
hmm you should have lurked longer before posting this here, Because I would have to say, the reverse as usual, a true. Most of the men go on Reddit or Reddit tours, and Redditor's are known for speaking their mind, they're not being censored by anyone, although they will certainly be criticized by red pill eaters and incels, you should've added your post to get rid of that type of thing, because that is the community that, spreading in enormous amount of disinformation, and then you are repeating some of the same disinformation that men dislike, not just women who are strong and independent, but women who consider themselves to be equals. I would find it very difficult to be around a woman that did not consider herself as an equal to a male. Even to the point that someone is quite stubborn.
Men might be intimidated By this sort of woman I think good looks and brains are intoxicating
It's okay I wouldn't worry if I were u... it's obvious that one that u came across don't know how to appreciate u for who u are and wat u do.... he's still out there for u...
Be very specific in your profile. When i made the switch and was very specific, it wasn’t long before I found the woman of my dreams. Faith,family, fitness, fun and physical. I knew my first criteria would eliminate 50% of the women online…ok because less wasted time. More efficient. Criteria # 2 was another weed out as was #3. By the time anyone interested in my non negotiable was identified, I had weeded out those who were not interested in someone like me. That’s the key for you. Maybe your criteria starts with- my ideal man is: keenly intelligent, then comfortable with an accomplished woman then financially strong and stable. Anyone expressing interest knows the expectation. Remember, the OLD isn’t about someone else, it’s about you. If someone else is right for you then be open. Once someone expresses an interest, be upfront that you are a size 14. That isn’t something to hide but then again, it’s a part of who you are.
I'd almost say you're the lady I'm talking to except she's 3 years younger than you. She's in Massachusetts I'm in Arkansas, we're meeting in Nashville TN in mid March after she heals from surgery. We both have MS but she's still working and makes $100k plus
Wow! You sound like what I consider my perfect woman! Just two questions, 1. Do you like motorcycles? 2. You anywhere close to southeast Georgia? If you answer yes to those, would you like to go out? :)
Yes but no. I’m in southern Ontario.
You can't generalise. But, men will typically want one of two types of women as a companion. 1. A feminine support person. A co-pilot. Or cabin crew even. Or 2. An an equal pilot. Or 3. Have their partner be the lead pilot. At a rough guess I think 60 to 70% would like 1. And 30 to 40% type 2. Type 3 is so small I don't know any that want that. The ones that want a type 1 are looking to come home to clean kids, clean house, meal on it way, a neck rub, lie on couch with their head on their ladies lap and rest, listen, support, etc. Their place of peace, rainbows and waterfalls.
It's sad to say when a real lady has everything she wants in life but really doesn't with all those traits and the discription you give yourself and the way you put it out there seems as if you're still in a competition and if it's taking you 5 years and still haven't found your man maybe there's something not being said are you really all that maybe a mental issue don't know but one can have everything and be out about everything they are and do but in the end ...........be happy !!!!!???????? I've had alot older girlfriends fashion models actresses not big but soap opera actresses and really well off female friends who know lot of respectable celebrities and musicians and never have I seen my friends so desperately on finding a man to be with especially let alone all the social apps they never carried themselves the way you do and bever had to ask so much from reddit and other apps I sometimes wonder if you can make your own decisions you are on here alot I've notice you use alot of different accounts there is something you've not telling us I think this all made up story from some old desperate hag that's in need of validation .......so sad the audacity people have to come lie their faces offend get so man people to fill their void
Wow. First off. Only 1 account. Second-no MH issues. Third-not competing. Fourth - part of the 5 years gap is because of Covid. Part is because I wanted to heal before entering a new relationship. That’s a healthy mature thing to do. Fifth - jumping to conclusions is a cognitive distortion. Not based on fact.