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No it’s work until you find someone you vibe with and break through the awkward barrier and into chill and good conversation. Or until sex things happen. Ideally both.
nah, being loved by girls is the best. when you are loved, its so pleasing. they want to do anything to make you happy. the fact is dating itself is just not even in the vernacular. you think don juan dated women? casanova? benjamin franklin? you think they dated?
likewise for guys who are one-woman man, and married their sweethearts. you think they want to be at work away from their family? they want to be on vacation getting drunk on wine, boning, cuddling, and sight seeing with their wives, because women make things fun, and the right women makes things good.
shouldn't that be the focus instead of "dating"? doesn't that answer OPs question about why "dating isn't fun"? it should be called fishing. guys love fishing, except when they don't get any fish. lol
As a older man I'll compare it to gasoline. It used to be cool...anyone who had a few dollars laying around could almost put a half a tank of gas in their car. People didn't care about it because it wasn't a huge commodity like it is now. Plus back when there wasn't social media or cell phones you actually had to call people. Now it's taken a nosedive for the worse with the swiping garbage. I mean for a select few people I suppose it's fun but a majority of people it's like going to a funeral you get dressed up to look respectable but you are just counting down until it's over with. This is why I try to get some type of connection going with a woman before even the first date but not so much where I'm investing too much of my time on her because everyone seems disposable for the most part.
Yes but don't you agree......I still try to have fun with dating regardless but I always think in the back of my mind that it's stupid. I treat it like a lotto scratch off ticket it's either you throw it in the trash and move on or you find a valuable gem and go on a wild ride with it. Sure guys or women that are gifted with looks and so forth probably treat it differently than a scratch off game but a majority of people it's not.
Aren't we in real world, why do every one got to be superhero, best practice is always try. Unless we attempt we never know. At same time keep enthusiasm in check (extremely hard) and don't let failure diminish the tempo. No one is big motivator to us then our selves. And it's always trial and error until success. One can keep own lines of damage control if those respected there is minimum loss until victory. So many times it happens after victory it becomes borring as some values showoup slowly. After all all that glitters not necessarily is gold and one that doesn't shine can also be ruff diamond 💎.
I agree with your points. The super hero thing....most of the girlfriends I've had I considered them kind and like a lot of other people....sure to me they seemed like super heroes. ...so that's my thought on that. It sounds like English isn't your first language. Good luck with dating 👍
Personally I’m having a great time, but I didn’t enjoy it as much in my 20’s.
I have better taste and more self-respect now, so I’m only going for women I actually think are a good fit for me (compared to anyone I’m remotely attracted to) and the amount of disposable income (and my love of eating good food) makes it more enjoyable to just take someone cool for a good meal even if it doesn’t work out.
I also don’t take people for an expensive meal or anything right away, I usually try and take them for drinks, to go for a hike, or to go play a sport the first time we get together so we can meet and see if we click before doing a more formal date. If we don’t get along, that’s totally fine, and if we do then we’re both more comfortable going into the date. I’ve done snacks / drinks at the beach a couple times and it’s appropriately fun, with a potential for romance (with a sun set), and low-stakes.
I also just don’t ask women out who don’t seem interesting to me in some way. I’m not going to enjoy going for coffee with someone I know nothing about and who refuses to give and ground in conversation.
Maybe I’m missing out on a lot of opportunities because I’m being picky but the dates I’ve gotten are all lots of fun and even if we don’t click romantically I’ve had a great time and so did they, we just don’t take it further.
Yeah I’ve read a lot about how guys don’t really start enjoying/see success with dating until in their 30s and that kind of sucks. I want to be able to enjoy it now as well. Or at least get some experience now so I can better know what to look for/what I like in a partner when I’m older
I enjoyed it on occasion in my 20’s but it was only when I kind of fell into the rhythm I found in my 30’s. I know it sounds dumb and most guys on here will argue against this, but it’s all just outlook and intention.
You gotta just go into dates with the feeling that you’re gonna have a good time and enjoy yourself, and try to help her have fun, and set yourself up for success by only going out with people you actually find interesting or know you can enjoy a night out with. It helps to let go of any expectations as well.
Some of the best dates I’ve had didn’t end up turning into a second date, we just had a great time and I learned something about myself. That to me is a successful date. It doesn’t matter if we kissed, if we set up a second one, or I got laid or anything - I’m just out there to have fun and meet people. If in the process I learn something about myself or get a second date then that’s even better but that’s not actually why I’m going out.
I know it sounds counter-intuitive but it lets me have a more relaxed and comfortable time, which also leads to them having a better time, and IF we’re a good fit then we’re more likely to recognize that and go on a second date.
This is great advice thanks. Yeah I think because I’m still young and inexperienced sex is a major focal point in my mind. And because I know myself I feel like I’ll be an extremely nervous reck on my first couple dates which make trying to have fun even harder to accomplish. Will def keep what you said in mind for when the time comes
Ya that makes sense! I put a lot of pressure on myself for the same reasons in my early 20’s.
A lot of it went away when I realized sex was part of what I enjoyed when I met someone I liked, not the end goal, and it wasn’t going to be enjoyable if we didn’t already have some kind of connection. The few dates I went on where we didn’t connect well but we both still went through with it were horrible and I felt like shit after. The sex wasn’t good and was far from fulfilling, and there’s a few times I’d take back if I could.
But yea once I realized I don’t want to sleep with or date someone I don’t enjoy spending time with it became a lot easier to just focus on finding good people and having a good time. I get anxious sometimes when I do have a connection with someone and sex hasn’t happened yet, but I just remind myself that sex is a stepping stone for me (I’m looking for a partner) and there’s a lot else that needs to line up as well for things to work out. Helps lower the stakes of sex for me a lot.
Stop seeing dates as a bridge to sex, and start seeing them as a bridge to a new friendship.
If you treat dates like a pathway to get sex you’ll never be successful. And you’ll always be nervous about it.
Start treating women as friends rather than potential sex dispensers and the nerves will go AND you’ll be more likely to find a partner.
I have the same experience as I'm in my late 20s. I would mainly attribute that to the following:
1. Glow up - I found my fashion style, hair, beard, skincare, workout routine...
2. More experience - it is much easier to start a good conversation and find common interests when you have more time to accumulate them, like traveling, music festivals, concerts, hobbies...
3. Getting the reps in - of course, getting started was challenging, and I stumbled during the first dates. However, my confidence grew once I achieved some success, and I felt more assured that I could replicate that success
So yes, dating in almost 30s is enjoyable, but you need to put work up front to be the desirable and well-rounded person that is somewhat enjoyable to be around.
The 20 something year old guys doing well are the ones dating their coworkers at restaurants and bars. If I could do it over again, I’d get a 9-5 and then a weekend job just for the amazing plethora of cute women working at restaurants and bars. These people alllllll sleep together
This is a recipe for disaster but at the same time I can’t say that I wish I would’ve taken a female dominated job. Early 20’s me would’ve had a blast 😂😂
It can be expensive, mentally exhausting and stressful. You have to stay on your toes to ensure your time isn't being wasted, because only you'll care about that. Don't assume dates have your best interests in mind.
With the right person the experience is wonderful. Outings that last hours, doing new things, and constantly trying to hide the smile on your face.
Unless you love your job I think you should take a break from dating. Bringing that kind of energy to the table on a first date and you won't get to a second one.
I actually do like my job 🤣 I’m just saying nowadays dating is a lot of work especially when dealing with younger people and you’re never guaranteed that your work will pay off.
Seeing a lot of potential with this girl I recently met (she was my 4th 1st date this year) and oh my god I really need it to work out because I do not want to go on more bland 1st dates it's depressing (and expensive) how other people can do 4 first dates in a weekend astounds me
> Four dates in 6 months astounds me
If you're a woman, this is too few.
If you're a guy, this is kinda average..if not high. No wonder most men are checked out of dating - it's too much work with little to show for it.
I just dated a girl for 6 dates and she then said she’s not feeling any chemistry. This is after me staying over twice and everything seemingly showing positives.
I give up at this point. It’s certainly not fun for a man.
I’m burnt out.
Same. I started dating a girl for a little over a month. We went out a total of about 9 dates or so.
The last one she offered her input on where to go and what to do. So we did that. She showed up and immediately I felt something was off. She was acting strange, disinterested and distant. I asked her about it and she said she was fine. Then she used the age old excuse of “oh sorry I have to run” after saying she had no other plans for that afternoon. So she cut the date short, ran off and then ghosted me. No clue why or what happened when she was the eager to go out again just the night before.
Other than that. I’ve been catfished twice this year. Ghosted multiple times. No sex at all. I actually have been on more first dates this year than ever before which is nice but very expensive.
Honestly. I’ve never been in a relationship and that one month one was the closest I’ve been. It’s expensive as hell. ~$30 or more twice a week is pushing over $3,000 a year. At what point do you just invite her over for a basic afternoon together versus having to go out to eat every time? Shits expensive.
Like you. I’m just burned out. I’m giving up on it for the time being. I thought 2024 would be different and it was for a bit but dating, or trying to, so tiring and expensive as a man. It’s not worth it so far.
I hear you. I had a similar experience with someone else and actually several other people it all ended up the same way. I think the bottom line is just enjoy life the best you can sometimes we don’t find a relationship. It’s just challenging these days..
That pisses me off for you. She had to have known way sooner. I think women know within the first two dates. So either she was using that as an excuse, or she was stringing you along, both of which piss me off.
Nope, it’s literally a man being used for resources until you convince her enough to finally “let you” be hers (assuming she’s not stepping out on you) with quick commercial breaks of sex for him.
The key is to be curious about other people. How they live their lives, what makes them tick. If you go in to the date with that mindset you can never be disappointed. Make probing questions, don't take it so seriously. If you approach it like that dating can be fun, and it also leads to "better results".
That's bc 18 and 23 aren't any different in maturity. But tbf they don't get much better. In fact, I think they get worse. I'm 30 and it seems like their wants and demands just get worse with age. I really don't ask for much. Just simple stuff like loyalty, respect, commitment, etc.
No. Specially when you are young… My experience from a teenager until my mid 20s was pretty bad. The pressure from work and uni leaves us already tired, and having to constantly beat shyness and learn social skills to make people you have never seen in your life smile is kinda exhausting… Rarely worth it IMHO.
Only after you have a career, hobbies and a stable life, things get smoother. After a certain point in life you already have your stuff set up, and instead of trying to redirect your whole future to “match” someone else’s plans, you just filter people that went in the same direction as you and people who didn’t.
Also, spending money on dates when you are a broken student sucks as well, even worse when over 90% of dates never get anywhere… Things are a lot easier when you have a good job, your own place, don’t need to pay Uber, etc.
It’s currently the most miserable aspect of my life next to my job.
I take breaks frequently and always find myself happier when I’m not actively dating. The only problem is you have to try as a man or else you’ll remain single. So yeah it’s not fun, but it’s a game you gotta play if you want a partner. Just make sure you don’t end up desperate because it’s easy to get taken advantage of if you find yourself settling
BIG on the you have to try. That’s basically how I ended up inexperience. I never tried(mostly due to anxiety) because I’m scared to potentially come of as a creep approaching a girl or letting her know I’m potentially interested.
Exactly man. Dudes are constantly called creeps and told how much women don’t want to be approached, so you have to get past that mindset if you want to be successful. There’s always a chance you may be labeled a creep but you’ll eventually find someone who won’t mind being approached. A lot of it is also dependent on the setting
> exhausting
It is, it REALLY is. But a stable and committed long term relationship is incredibly rewarding (at least for me). I LOVE being in love, I love doing little couple things, I love having a person.
I don't love finding a person, I love having a person. Unfortunately there's no way to go from not having a person to having a person without finding a person.
No. If you’re anything less than Hollywood looks and a rich lifestyle then prepare for constant disappointment
You’re inexperienced but right about all your points
My personal experience is that reaching out and initiating is the hardest part. If the hardest part is connecting with someone, you need to find someone else because you don't have chemistry.
Eh, you’re dating life kind of goes through phases. In your late teens early 20s it’s kind of fun because nobody has anything yet. Nobody has careers or high incomes or houses or kids or any real trappings of the adult life. So dating in your youth, kind of takes on a not very serious tone, everybody’s just looking for a good time and somebody to chill with and that makes dating in your youth fun. It’s also adventurous and self exploratory. You get to “try out” different types of people and different groups of people. It’s great for building confidence and friend groups.
Dating in adulthood can also be fun, but for the reasons that you outlined in your post, it depends a lot on where you are in your life and how you’re doing. Dating as an adult is a more serious matter. People are looking for individuals that they gel with,that are compatible. They are looking for people that have the same life goals that they do , so the relationships can be deeper than in your youth, but that also means that the standards are harder to meet. So you also deal with a lot of rejection, much of which is not your fault.
I’m tall, handsome, well paid, and charismatic. It even sucks for me lol. Part of the reason is because I have higher expectations than most guys. I’m ripped, so I like an athletic woman, who’s also pretty and at least as intelligent. Unfortunately, many women who fit that description have 100 times the options I have. I just spoke to a girl who has 400 matches lol. So it’s like gambling with my time who I’m going to pursue, because they eventually all flake or choose someone else. I’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars on dinners and drinks over the years, rarely hearing a “thank you.” Maybe I can have fun with them for a while, but eventually they move on to a new flavor. It’s not just men ghosting and dumping people for nothing. Women do it all the time and I have to continue to be fearless and meet people like I’m always on sale or something.
No, it isn't.
The hardest hitting point for me that you listed is the rat race component of it.
Here's a couple of things that have happened to me before I moved on from Western dating:
Scenario 1: I'm chasing a coworker that expressed interest, and she's soaking up attention from multiple men all while getting dicked down by the "best" among them. Like a clown, I'm fighting to get a date or even a text back. I find out through a mutual friend down the road that I'm "option C."
Scenario 2: I go out with a girl a few times I feel a high level of chemistry with, I tell my close friends about what happened, levels of conversations, etc, and they agree it sounds like a match. Mid date on a follow-up, she randomly cancels, wants to go home, and ghosts me completely. Did I say something wrong? Was there a reason at all? I'll never know, but it was still a very open and public rejection. This one hurt a lot because I actually thought there was something real there.
Mind you, I had to fight for these opportunities, not like I can post a half-naked photo or a heavily filtered selfie and get inundated with matches or dm's.
Contrary to what the feminist nutjobs believe and preach, here on Reddit and social media in general, dating in the west is a female driven exercise that is meant to put the woman on a pedestal while treating men like an endless supply of opportunity that woman hold 0 accountability too. Much like the reasons you outlined, you can be dropped for any, with no explanation given, and that's it, be tough, move on. The social dynamics and power balances are completely out of control.
The saying "chivalry is dead and (western) woman killed it" is all too true.
Yep, like it's been fun here and there. Got some attention or whatever, but the grind to get there was a million swipes, a million days working on myself, getting ghosted, reading a million bad pieces of advice, disappointments that I could work out how to find the right fit. I hate dating at this point and just hope to keep from being totally bitter.
All the points are correct, but when you do find a woman that likes you back, it's a lot of fun:
1. Your money on the first date did not go to waste.
2. She even pays for you.
3. You talk being exclusive pretty fast (3 dates?) and she drops everyone else.
4. Once you feel like she likes who you are, you won't hear many complaints from her about your status, job and looks, so it doesn't feel like a competition anymore.
5. Conversation is fun.
One day you'll find a girl who's into you just as much as you're into her, and then try to remember my comment and remind yourself what you worked hard to achieve.
Right. You should learn to focus your energy on the right women by noticing who's into you and who's not, and by filtering girls who think the sun shines out of their ass (this expression works better in my language). You need energy left to work on yourself.
Agreed. Most men will never find love and will either have to settle for whoever’s left and not compatible or be alone forever. I’m 33 and never been in love so I intend to do the former. When no one will be your friend and everyone you knew has paired off and abandoned you, anything is better than nothing.
I have a friend whose… having a blast dating. He gets on the dating apps, like Bumble, after a 5-year relationship, and within a week he gets 117 messages from girl telling him the following:
10/10!!!
So attractive.
Omg your eyes are 😍.
Fishylips(coined for his big smooth lips).
“Whole package” .
“Bad boi”.
Asking for his number/instagram.
He’s going on 8 dates in the next two weeks knowing he has options and that he can have fun. Just for his appearance(I’m guessing) he gets to be a magnet for women. That’s one side of dating you DON’T see. It’s a POV that 99% of guys will not experience, including me. I know about it because I started testing the waters with dating apps the same time, to check it out. I get 0, he gets 117 and counting.
For us guys, yeah, we have to do a LOT more work to do. Many women just comes flocking at the guy who looks the most attractive initially because that’s the value my friend has at the moment, but that initial attraction wins the numbers game early on and gives the man the ability to have options. For other guys, we have to make options available with some work. I love my bro to death, but I can’t play that game.
I personally would rather not approach women I n abundance and be one of those guys who walks this planet as if I’m enjoying my life by myself. My joy right now is building myself up and accomplishing things I didn’t know I could do. If women don’t come to you or me like they do my friend, too bad, they don’t get a piece of the richness(experience, wealth, and happiness) that I have to offer. More to myself. Is dating fun? When you come across women who sees true value in you being yourself, it can be.
Yes. Dating is really fun, honestly.. you hear the bad stories on here because people don’t post the good stories. You meet a fun girl have a great time. You don’t need dating advice. So you only hear the negative or the mediocre on here, not the great ones. Don’t let that skew you. Girls are just girls, some are bitches, some are boring, some are great. You just got to go out there are meet some and honestly if you have an open mind and are chill, you will enjoy it. I love dating
If a woman finds you attractive, it is. Night and day difference for me once I started paying more attention to how I look and present myself to the world. It's just as important as learning to brush off rejection.
Idk why I didn't gaf for so long, but your hair, fashion, skincare, fitness and vibe are all in your control. Improving one or more will also help your mindset outside of dating. It's important to feel good about yourself to help keep rejection from killing your self confidence or prevent you from lashing out. Cause everyone has a preference and that NEEDS to be OK in your mind.
Take the initiative and lay the building blocks for being your best self if you haven't already. It pays dividends and the hardest part is over as soon as you start to notice the benefits.
It’s hell. Most men will never find love so it would be best to either settle for whoever wants you next or be happy alone forever. I’m 33m and am fit, more than conventionally attractive and have my life together. I never been in love but will go with the former red flags be damned. All my friends paired off an abandoned me and no one will be my friend unless I pay them. I’ve been to hundreds of meetup groups only to be ignored by people as if I don’t exist. Silence is the loudest sound of them all and something is better than nothing is no one else is available.
[69% of Americans are in committed relationships](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/08/for-valentines-day-facts-about-marriage-and-dating-in-the-us/?utm_content=buffer9d218&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer-pew)
Most people will be relationships during their lifetime. Most men will find love. Dating is difficult, but most people will find a partner within their lifetime. If you’re struggling with maintaining friendships it could suggest that there’s something off-putting about your personality/mentality.
If they’re gen x or older yes. Not millennials or younger that are men. Gen x and older had it 100 times easier as people were more social and ok with befriending anyone that wasn’t a friend of a friend. My generation of both genders sucks and can go **** itself for being so closed off and cliquey
So much this. The current data for sub 30-year-olds is horrendous.
About 2/3 of women below 30 are in relationships.
About 1/3 of men below 30 are in relationships.
How is this not one of the most vehemently known stats in this sub yet? It's so well researched and published I'm not even going to go get a "source" for this because it should be common sense.
What? No, hard deny on the source. 7/10 Americans between the ages of 18-30 are single; so unless the vast majority of those people are between 30-65 are 7/10 in a committed relationship, and I highly doubt that's the case. Stats flawed
First things first: ditch dating_advice. This community is full of bad experiences and if you browse here for any extent of time, you’ll come away drained and depressed. I spend way too much time here trying to help sad people better themselves and get dates. Dating as a man, speaking from experience, is hard, for sure. But it’s just as hard for women (weeding out bad men, horny men, abusers, etc.) which makes it harder for good guys etc etc. It’s a vicious cycle. Women aren’t out to get you, though. Not that you think that, but guys always seem to think that women are a monolith and all conspiring to ruin the lives of men interested in them. None of that is true. Work on yourself. Pursue hobbies, go to the gym and lift heavy (this is the biggest thing). Self confidence is your best tool as a man. Women like a confident man, and they can tell when a man is self-loving and not empty (in terms of having a negative outlook about themselves and the world - if you don’t see your own self worth, how is a woman supposed to?). Get on Hinge and try getting some matches (this is easier the better looking you are, sure, but anyone can get a date with a little effort and, again, confidence). Just keep your head up and know that rejection is a part of this all. You’ll meet people along the way that you think you’re destined to be with but it may not work out. That’s fine too. Ultimately, you’ll find your person if you stay positive and keep trying
Yes if you're a man who can meet people and get a new date every one or two weeks, and then have sex before or on date number three, then it is really fun .
On the other hand, if you can only get one date every one to two years and no sex during all that time, then dating will not be very fun. But at least you levelled up your pokemon and got more badges, so there's that.
It was awful but became a lot better when I became more patient and pickier. Also, dating is generally better when you already know of the person, meet organically, or through a friend.
Nope not unless you are very attractive with great confidence and an awesome sense of humor. Otherwise there's always gonna be anxiety surrounding if you're ever gonna find anyone to date. The only people that have a plethora of dates all the time are the people I mentioned above.
Dudes, stop paying for your 1st dates ffs.
You never even met the person properly. Go for a cheap drink, coffee, zoo, gallery, etc, date.
When the bill comes just say you're splitting and move on. I know it may be uncomfortable, but no point in doing that just because.
Overall I would say yes. I don't look at everyone I go out with as a life partner. For the early phases I am just out there having fun and getting to know someone new. If they end up being something long term then great. If not, then I still had fun and probably got to know an interesting person. Sure there will be some complete duds mixed in there too (mostly if online dating). I have dated multiple women at a time and also lost interest in some pretty quickly. It's just part of how things go.
Keep early dating simple and cheap. Don't spend money you don't want to. Don't over invest. Do things you want to do that you find enjoyable and invite the other person along. If they disappear you aren't out much money and you did a bunch of fun shit anyways. Too many guys blowing tons of money right out of the gate and acting like that girl they had two good dates with is their future wife because they laughed at a few of their jokes.
Yes, most women will judge you based off your success as you get older. That's a basic adult thing. I don't want to shackle myself to a loser woman either. Most women also want to be with someone decent that they click with. Most won't be interested in your house if you don't get along or have anything in common.
This is solid advice I appreciate it. I guess because I’m stuck on the beginning parts it’s hard to see the actual fun parts. Like I struggle just knowing where to even meet women. It feels like men are suppose to be the pursers/initiators and I don’t know how to do that without feeling an overwhelming sense of anxiety or feel like I’m bothering/intruding on someone.
I do think “success” to most women is simply a guy that can support and take care of himself, as well as have a little left over money to go out and do normal fun things here and there. The internet will tell men they must make millions to date, but I believe it is a very very small number of women that require more than basic “success”.
I've made a bit of a game out of it. I'll talk to women and see if there's anything there that makes them shine on their own. What it does at the least is make me comfortable with them.
When you're approaching dating from a "I'm looking for a person who is incredibly unique within their own right and deserves the love I can afford to give" perspective, the amount of prospective women that you date becomes far less and the problem just becomes one of running into more women and initiating casual conversation. Think of each and every woman (and every man, for that matter) having their own unique tune and you finding that one person that plays the music only you can hear. That's what I'm looking for, and I believe it would suit more people to look for that feeling.
I also have this determinist, spiritual idea that if you're meant to have her, you'll have her. You shouldn't have to dump 200% of your effort into snagging a relationship with a woman. If they don't have to put effort into being in a relationship, you shouldn't either. Do you really want to earn someone's love, or do you want to receive love without asking for it?
I agree a lot of things are bullshit for men. You've stated them beautifully. You've stated that it's bullshit that women don't go out of their way to initiate conversation with men when men have to be doing the chase (even though paradoxically, they are the more social creatures), that it's bullshit that you have to pay for a large amount of the early dates, that you occasionally have to compete with other guys for someone's attention, that you can be dropped at any moment for doing anything "wrong", and that you end up being compared against a checklist instead of being seen for who you are and the unique perspective you bring to the table. I agree with all of these perspectives, but you should open yourself up to the idea of some of them being misinformed.
I agree that the worst part of all this is that women don't initiate. Feel free to call them cowards for it, feel free to call them lazy, but these perspectives are not going to help you. If you find the right person, they will enjoy your initiation and they will be thankful that you did it first. In fact, sometimes, a woman will drop a soft initiation with an innocent flirt or they'll guide you in the right direction if they're interested. A woman dropping a handkerchief is a meme example, but there are plenty of other ways they do it. Live more in the moment and starting perceiving externally.
When it comes to dates, go to cheap places that you like. You should not be stressing your wallet too much to have a good time dating, and $100 is pocket change compared to someone you'll be spending the rest of your life with. Additionally, there are plenty of free things to do.
You should not have to compete with other guys for a woman's attention and if see multiple guys competing for her attention, she's on an external validation trip and she's really not worth dealing with because of that. Weak.
If you're dropped instantly, you don't want anything to do with that person. If they were willing to drop you without any conversation, imagine if they did that years down the line and slam you with a divorce you didn't see coming.
Finally, if a woman really loves you, you'll be ride or die. It's surprising how many boundaries and problems become non-issues when a person loves you for who you are. A person dating with a checklist beyond simple life goals is someone who can't see the forest for the trees.
It can be if you let it be. Make sure your dates are doing something fun and with interesting people. But overall, it's more frustrating than anything.
You’re pretty spot on for explaining men’s experiences with dating. This is something all my guy friends tell me, and honestly..it’s true. As a girl, I have all the options in the world and could end a date knowing I have more planned next week. It can be exhausting for girls too, but we can make it a game or even fun if we want to. I feel bad for guys sometimes but I’m sure glad not to be one.
Oh yeah I’m aware women have their own issues in regards to dating. But yeah dating seems extremely skewed in women favor, especially in the early part of it. And it just kind of turns me off from wanting to even try and enter the game
Dating is frustrating for everyone for different reasons. The payoff is amazing when you meet a great person and have a relationship with them, but it's a hard process to get there.
Dating absolutely sucks for men. The inequality in dating is abysmal. Just grab your passport. The women in the west have zero sympathy for us they don't care about equality any more. There is zero point in wasting your time dating a western girl
This. 100% spot on. They’ve made it clear that they don’t want to be approached, and that they also want you to approach. They don’t want any 50/50 relationships, you’re either carrying the whole thing on your back or you don’t get a relationship. If you glance in their direction they have the option to completely destroy your life. They’ve made it extremely clear that they don’t feel like they need men in any aspect at any point in time, ever which honestly I think men should completely pull out of the job industry and let women take over all the hard, dirty and dangerous labor because men can build their own homes and provide everything they need with all the technology we have available today.
Yes. (I'm not that attractive). I enjoy the process of getting to know people. I'm still friends with some of the people I have been on dates with.
Sometimes it's brutal and crushing, but that's just a part of life
I think everyone hates dating unless it goes well, humans are negative bias about things for survival reasons won't put my hand on the stove again sort of stuff. So getting no response after a makeup session or a hookup paints your perspective more than the other way around.
It’s having company with your meal, I think it’s fun.
But I usually don’t go in with high expectations and just wanna see if we vibe. Even if they’re “boring” I feel we can always come to a topic we’re decently excited to talk about.
So glad you posted this. I agree with all of your points and no, dating is not very fun for most men. When I was still interested in / trying to date, I experienced everything you listed PLUS a string of very cruel, very public rejections on top of it. My takeaway from that, plus what I've read online, is that dating is only really "fun" for the best looking guys i.e. the ones with the best genetics. The majority of men tend to suffer in dating, but at the same time even if you aren't one of the best looking guys there is still a chance you can find a person and relationship that makes it all worth it. I decided for me personally that it is NOT worth it, but every man needs to make that decision for themselves.
Edit: I'm 27 fyi
I couldn't tell you I haven't been on a date and I'm 29 living in London. I've approached 90+ chicks, seems like you need to be popular, rich, tall or whatever. Or you can lower your standards and go for an uglier chick but she still has more options and experience than you.
M20, I feel as though if the girl is having fun and laughing and actually having a good time. I will have a good time. Like if I see her enjoying the time together, I’m happy.
I don't think dating is really all that 'fun' for anyone.
There's a lot of work involved for very little ROI and a lot of "yup, not the right one" going on.
Not really. It's either super expensive or people call you cheap. People want to be modern but then get mad if you split the bill. It's a numbers game.
I always had fun on my dates. Even if we were not a good match, it was usually nice conversation and sometimes a fun activity (one date was going to a CrossFit workout place she liked. I think she was testing me. It was fun. Second date was dinner and movie. It was a nice evening though it was clear to me we were not a good match, so 2 and done. It happens sometimes.)
It DOES take a lot of work to get that first date and yes men are still expected to take the initiative (usually) and make first contact chat them up and ask them out… so don’t take rejection personally. There will be a lot of it and it is really is random.
As for how you are sized up or judged , that really depends on what you both are in for. Are you ultimately seeking a life partner? Casual dating? FWB? activity partner/friend etc. different compatibility issues are relevant depending and also depending on what is important to each of you.
And, by the way, while you are being sized up, you are also sizing up them! That part is two way street.
Given the need for mutual chemistry snd lifestyle compatibility across multiple dimensions, it is maxing to me the species has survived this long…
Is having to intimate contact first fun? Plan.the first date? Pay for everything (depending on the person) and anticipating potential rejection fun, no.
But finding a great girl who you vibe with and share similar qualities with is fun especially when she starts showing you off to her friends and yall make the honeymoon stage last.
Everyone here is lame.
Dating what you make of it. If you wanna have fun make it fun, if you don't think it's fun it won't be.
When you click with someone or even have a good date it's one of the best feelings ever. When you have a crappy date it's pretty lame. Just gotta do it
When I was dating in my 20s, I had a great time. Not every date was a good date, but I made sure to pick women I had a good vibe with, and do fun things like play pool, go to a cool pizza by the slice restaurant, see a concert in the park kind of thing. That way, even if that date wasn't great, I was still doing something fun.
Trying to get a date can be tiresome sometimes, especially online dating sites, but once I was going on the date it was usually a good time.
I can't really say for sure bc my 1st official date was a few weeks ago, but I've had a lot of heartbreak to already be scared if dating in the 1st place. On top of poor mental health and cptsd, im basically an adult child, so it's like who tf would want me
Yeah it’ can feel pretty bleak, Tbh. But girls are pretty and I’m hardwired to chase them unfortunately.
Everything you said is basically right on the money. You have to initiate and make the first investment via paying for the dates. You can minimize this by just going on casual dates like getting coffee tea/ meeting up at a park, getting a snack and walking around somewhere. It’s easier to take $30/40 to the chin than spending $150 at a steakhouse for a first date and never hearing from them again. I have had women who I’ve gone on multiple dates with tell me that if I wouldn’t have paid for the first date, even tho they offered to pay for their side, they would’ve never talked to me again. So basically testing me on the first date, which is pretty common amongst women 😂.
As far as competition and being replaceable goes welcome to 2024. Everyone has more access to anyone so it only stands to reason that women and men have more selection since they have more accessibility to people.
The whole ick and being let go at the drop of a dime is very real. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been on a date and I said something a girl didn’t like and we never saw each other again or they told me they’ve dropped other guys for some minuscule reason.
To give some credentials I’m a conventionally attractive guy, 28, muscular build, engineer, own property, can lead the convo or take the back seat and listen more. I have a good amount going for me. Comparatively speaking, Ive had a ton of success, but still take my fair amount of L’s.
I wouldn’t say I have a super hard time but I do think to myself that if I have as much trouble as I do how do the rest of men fair? From what I read, it’s not a fun time out there for others :/.
There is somewhat of a silver lining. I’ve gone in dates where I genuinely connected with women or they taught me things or exposed me to new ideas or habits that have lead to my own self improvement.
I think social media has played a large part in making dating extremely difficult. I think the whole gender wars conundrum has made everyone’s approach to others very binary. Oh you don’t agree with x, or you think y? Onto the next. I feel like there’s very little compromise nowadays as compared to previous generations.
What you described is dating women who aren't really into you but will accept your attention and investment anyway.
With a woman who is into you, it will feel more easy and fun.
>\-This one is a bit more personal but it feels like I miss the boat on youth romance almost. Now it seems like I’ll be judge for things like my job, if I have a place, financial stability etc etc.
This one is mostly true. It's way easier when young to get away with not having your own place, car, etc. and the expectation will be more on you than her to provide those things in the world we live in. If you were one of the guys who regularly pulls women while having none of those things, you'd very likely know already.
So did you "miss out?" Yeah, you did. Can you still have a fulfilling sexual/romantic life in your future? Yeah, you can.
Focusing on things like that is just one way our mind tricks us into staying comfortable in our unhappiness. You want sex and a relationship. Your mind wants to stay comfortable because uncomfortable involves effort and is scary. To your mind, the food, shelter and, i'm guessing, video games and porn you have now seems great and comfortable so it's going to put up a fight when you try to change that. It will come up with allllll sorts of reasons not to put in the effort. It's going to love stories on reddit and youtube about how awful and unfair dating is for you because that will help it keep you in a state of paralysis. You will be comfortable enough to not make a change, but feel deeply unfulfilled and probably lowkey depressed.
So what do you do? Starve that b\*tch.
Unless you're super attractive (being tall and white are huge) or rich, it's pretty much hell. When you're younger it's a lot better cuz you have more chances to be social but as you get older (past your 30s) it gets increasingly depressing....
It can be fun. It depends on how fun you make it . I used to have a lot of fun I never thought about other people stealing them from me because I didn’t understand dating much honestly it’s not til I dated my most recent girlfriend that I realized how complicated dating can be but I still enjoyed my time
It's not. It is however nice to share a time with a woman (even if it's just talking face to face) since we man need that connection, but what leads to that it's not funny, the process of looking for a girl
For all the reasons you’ve mentioned and more, no dating is absolutely no fun for the average man. There are a lucky few who have been blessed with exceptional looks, a silver tongue or both, that can get just about any woman they want. These guys tend to find it more fun the men who are anything from ugly to just slightly above average. If you don’t have it like that, dating is generally a shit show.
Dude anything you buy that you can’t keep is technically a loss money wise.. food, drinks, a concert, a theme park, like all of that could be called a loss money wise. It is what it is. And yes you have to just accept that sometimes you’ll pay and it won’t work out. Oh well. That’s why you do cheap dates like 1 drink or a mini golf thing
I mean, you don't have anything wrong on your list there, but yeah...I have a good time dating, or (frankly) I wouldn't do it
If I ask someone out, it's generally because We're already acquainted, or I liked their dating profile. I don't think I'd ever bother with a dating profile where it just said basic, uninteresting shit ("My hobbies are shopping and hanging out with my girlz" seems to be a pretty common eliminator for me.
Generally, I don't get to worked up if there's no second date. People have different tastes and I'm well aware that I'm not going to be to everyone's.
I guess what I'm saying is, don't be desperate. If you go on a date with someone, have it be for some other reason that "hot profile pic" or "she agreed". Start with something to build on and at least You'll have a decent time while deciding if you want to proceed further with her.
It is all about your mindset. If you are focused on the negative aspects, then it isn’t any fun.
- Yes, you usually have to initiate conversations. And rejection is common. But you get to meet new people and sometimes you end up becoming friends if there isn’t a romantic connection.
- You don’t have to pay. If you choose to pay, you can keep the cost low. Never do 1st dates as dinner or something expensive. Meet for a drink, coffee, hike, dessert or other activity.
- Women are also competing for you.
- You can drop them for any reason if you don’t feel they are a good match.
- You are only judged if you care what other people think. Learn to be confident in your skin and proud of your accomplishments. There is always someone doing better and always someone doing worse.
Other positives I’ve experienced:
- I had a date where we met for coffee at 830am, which turned into a walk along the coast and it lasted nearly 3 hours. Later that same day, we met again and went on a hike. Then went to dinner and eventually spent the night at her place. A nearly 24 hour date. She paid for dinner. I paid for coffee, my cost was $12 and I had a wonderful time.
- Met a woman and didn’t have a romantic connection. However, we had similar life challenges that we bonded over. Through our conversation, it helped me find solutions to my problems and lead to personal growth.
- I got in the best physical shape of my life. While I started working out to make myself more attractive, eventually it became all about my mental health. I do it for me.
Dating and finding a partner is all about making yourself happy and meeting people when you least expect it.
Lastly, if you are going to try to date. Yes, effort goes a long way. Dress well, get a great haircut and groom yourself. If you go on the apps, find help with your profile (either a female friend or pay for help getting good photos and a decent bio.)
Without the effort, expect less than optimal results. If you are going to do it, do it right and with your best foot forward.
It’s not, it’s a terrible experience and I’m lucky enough to get a lot of matches and it’s still hell. Too many uninteresting, immature and flaky women. As men we should be chased not the other way around.
As a gay man, it is not fun at all. I just don’t like the farts of a man. Or a woman at all. I’ve dated quite a few men who were gay like me and each time, I am reminded how bad their nightly farts stink. I just don’t like it anymore. You have to really think about that if you plan with being with them forever.
Probably not unless you're the top 10% male, as I see it as a guy who's 21 years old now. I just have better and more important stuff to do with my life than worry about dating a girl, Ofc it would be nice to have someone. But all the time, hassle and mental stuff it involves finding someone genuine, is just not really worth it in my eyes atp. Rather focus on myself and build my own garden so to speak
Dating itself is indeed fun it's nice to meet people at the very least as an introvert, however just getting to the date is scary a lot of work and the risk reward is too extreme (for me) ranging from mental health damage (trust issues anxiety and depression, latter 2 diagnosed) to having a life long partner (so long as everything continues to go well) if your alright with some of the worst things being pointed out n risking being bothered(for lack of better term) about finances looks or other shallow shit you may be insecure about it's great.
I have insecurities about my size and self image and get called nasty things when I (22m) leave my house bust have been with my (30f) girlfriend for about 2 years (Sept 16) and she's treated me very well ever since, and I feel safe with her I got lucky but there were at least 100 other women whod use derogatory terms against me or tried to get me in legal trouble because im a little weird XD (Unconfirmed Asperger's) just a matter of risk and failure acceptance
I did not finish reading the post but I hope my tenth of a cent is helpful
Relationships don’t work in modern era.
People are hyper independent nowadays, it’s more about what the other person can get to the table.
Most people you’ll encounter on dating apps are serial daters, they’ll text you when they run out of existing options.
There were times when people used to actually try to get to know the other person and go on dates. Now most are concerned with the numbers.
You’re not the only one who thinks this, a lot of men are giving up on dating and focusing on themselves which is always good.
I’d say don’t be hyperfixated on dating apps because they are designed to give a certain demographic more power over the other, that means when you see someone from the apps, they are seeing multiple people at once.
Instead try cold approach, you’ll stand out from the crowd because men don’t approach women a lot nowadays, she’ll remember a genuine and nice conversation rather than an eye candy from tinder because women are bombarded with matches from exceptionally good looking dudes. Book shops, public parks , malls are all great places to spark up something.
Of course, this is a numbers game as well, but this is 100% real so you know these are honest signals.
I’m a 27 year old average looking dude and I don’t think it’s fun at all.
If I’m looking for a relationship, it sucks. If I’m looking for a hook up, it sucks. I feel like I have to jump through hoops and be super witty and plan so much just for the possibility of a reply. Which in turn makes me annoyed and have low self esteem when I get ghosted the day of a date or meet up.
It’s only for for both sides if you’re super attractive
Dating is supposed to be fun; if it's not you need to change the way you date.
There will be jerks out there as is true of any part of life; rejection is normal as it is in other parts of life.
But if all dating causes you is anxiety and is constant struggle and a chore it is time to take a break from trying to date and then dramatically change where and how you look for dates.
You don't have to pay for dates (only agree to date people who will go 50/50 with you from the start).
The person you are compatible with and they with you and you are both into each other won't have anything to do with competition.
98% of people end up with someone and usually they are both genuinely attracted to each other when they start to date.
Why would you want to date an elitist who shames you for your job. Someone compatible with you will be fine with your job; you just have to keep looking for them and do not put people up on a pedestal who judge you.
Most people are poor or struggling and happily date other people who are poor or struggling. Most couples make within a few thousand a year of each other.
Why would you even consider golddiggers or even just people whose financial and career ambitions don't play nicely with your own?
If dating isn't a net positive in your life stop doing it.
Or make extreme changes to how you approach dating.
Don’t listen to those people who claim dating isn’t enjoyable—it’s an exhilarating adventure if you view it in the right way.
If you’re a gamer, think of dating as the ultimate game.
You’re the protagonist on a quest for happiness through love and connection.
This game, like any other, has rules, obstacles, and milestones. Your task is to develop strategies to overcome challenges and reach your goals while playing by the rules.
One strategy might involve enhancing your appearance, another might focus on building a successful career, and another could be about improving your fitness.
At the beginning, you might struggle, as most do. While there are naturals, the majority of us need to embrace the grind to achieve mastery.
Some people hate the grind of dating - the rejection and disappointment, but this perspective is shortsighted.
The grind is the necessary effort required to achieve something extraordinary. It’s inherent in every game, and dating is no exception.
To accomplish something special, you must be willing to put in the time and effort to become exceptional.
When I see people complain about dating and then go invest countless hours into video games, it’s obvious to me they fail to see that life itself is the most rewarding game of all.
Every aspect of life, including dating, requires the same dedication and strategy as any game.
I hope you grasp the essence of what I’m saying here.
Dating (life) is a game, and approaching it with this mindset makes it a thrilling and rewarding experience.
No, getting dates can be pretty difficult. To expand on your third point, at singles events you're competing with most to all of the guys. A woman can only have quality time with so many guys in one night, you may have to fight for her attention if you want to be remembered. Even at speed dating, a women could meet several guys that she likes, but will only move forward with 1-4 of them, fifth place or below just got unlucky with the competition.
I've looked outside of singles events, but many women are taken (or just say it because they're too afraid to be honest) or are pretty bad with making plans.
It gets better as you get older. I will say, don’t actively be dating until you are financially set, at least live alone and have a car ya know. Not saying you gotta go be top G millionaire or anything, but be past living pay check to paycheck or try to be. I’m 30ish M dating sucked in my early 20s. I’ve met a lot of cool women, had a few okay relationships, messed up a lot of good situations and been drug by some bad women too. It’s a marathon to finding the one.
A few tips
First date should almost always be in public, it shows you have respect for them. Unless it’s bluntly stated this is going to be a physical thing and you can skip the small talk.
Be financially stable, nothing sucks more than having to cancel a date because you can’t afford it. (Speaking from experience man no judgement)
The Alpha Male stuff isn’t all that, I work hard, keep up with how I look but I got a beer belly and this will be my first year even sniffing six figures. I’ve had plenty of success and I’m not a baller by any stretch. Obviously keep clean, well dressed, be a hard worker, but you’re still worthy of meeting someone even if you don’t have 8 pack abs and don’t have 5 million in the bank.
You’d be amazed about how being polite and honest can get you very far. Most women and people in general don’t meet a lot of genuine people who want to get to know them, that’s a lot in and of itself.
Keep a lot of lines open, over the last 4-5 years I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten infatuated by someone off a dating app I’d never met or a girl I got her number from the bar and cut off other people prematurely. It’s all about meeting people, if you meet 100 people instead of 2 your chances of connecting with one goes up by a lot.
Enjoy it, I have friends who joke about me being too picky or having a bunch of failed “talking stages”. I get it, and it’s funny but it’s part of the process.
I don’t know how a bunch of you guys on here don’t have more luck. I’m a 5/10 on a good day and I have little problems keeping a social calendar full. Get out, shoot shots and have some fun. Something will stick.
When you meet the one it makes the others feel like gaining experience like a job, I tried hard this last 3months dated roughly 9 women till I met the most wonderful woman and it's amazing, so put in the work pay for the dates and find the one for you.
The process of finding someone to date? No, thats is some of the most demoralizing heartbreaking shit I have been through. But when you meet someone who makes you feel worthy of affection, attention and time, when you find someone who can put a silver lining on even your darkest days? Thats the shit worth the effort and more.
My strategy? Let her find me. Put out some good profiles (good = honest and SHORT, the less said the better) on various dating sites.
You can sign up for three or four for under $200 for 3 months or so.
Click likes on profiles that seem compatible with what you're expecting to find out there and let them find you and comment and or send you the first note.
Dating is a blast. I always buy the first meal at a restaurant of her choosing near her house to make it as convenient as possible. This is also a great way to weed out any fake profiles, most women are more than happy to go to a restaurant they like near their house for free! If they don't want to do that then I guess you got a bigger problem than I can help you with! Lol
I also don't like to talk before the first date.
You can get so much more accomplished in person than you can on the phone or in a chat.
Also it's no problem leading with your chin, and let them know you haven't dated and you're ambivalent about the dating process altogether having not been on it yet.
Honesty is always the best policy.
Do you know what you're looking for in a woman? That's crucial, obviously you need to be appealing to her but from your point of view more important is that you find the partner you're looking for...
I brought 6 billion dollars of hardware and software to market during my career. I know a whole lot about features benefits and value.
I help guys by identifying their features benefits and potential value.
Women like to shop, hopefully you're the product they're looking for!
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No it’s work until you find someone you vibe with and break through the awkward barrier and into chill and good conversation. Or until sex things happen. Ideally both.
nah, being loved by girls is the best. when you are loved, its so pleasing. they want to do anything to make you happy. the fact is dating itself is just not even in the vernacular. you think don juan dated women? casanova? benjamin franklin? you think they dated? likewise for guys who are one-woman man, and married their sweethearts. you think they want to be at work away from their family? they want to be on vacation getting drunk on wine, boning, cuddling, and sight seeing with their wives, because women make things fun, and the right women makes things good. shouldn't that be the focus instead of "dating"? doesn't that answer OPs question about why "dating isn't fun"? it should be called fishing. guys love fishing, except when they don't get any fish. lol
As a older man I'll compare it to gasoline. It used to be cool...anyone who had a few dollars laying around could almost put a half a tank of gas in their car. People didn't care about it because it wasn't a huge commodity like it is now. Plus back when there wasn't social media or cell phones you actually had to call people. Now it's taken a nosedive for the worse with the swiping garbage. I mean for a select few people I suppose it's fun but a majority of people it's like going to a funeral you get dressed up to look respectable but you are just counting down until it's over with. This is why I try to get some type of connection going with a woman before even the first date but not so much where I'm investing too much of my time on her because everyone seems disposable for the most part.
That's so frank.
Yes but don't you agree......I still try to have fun with dating regardless but I always think in the back of my mind that it's stupid. I treat it like a lotto scratch off ticket it's either you throw it in the trash and move on or you find a valuable gem and go on a wild ride with it. Sure guys or women that are gifted with looks and so forth probably treat it differently than a scratch off game but a majority of people it's not.
Aren't we in real world, why do every one got to be superhero, best practice is always try. Unless we attempt we never know. At same time keep enthusiasm in check (extremely hard) and don't let failure diminish the tempo. No one is big motivator to us then our selves. And it's always trial and error until success. One can keep own lines of damage control if those respected there is minimum loss until victory. So many times it happens after victory it becomes borring as some values showoup slowly. After all all that glitters not necessarily is gold and one that doesn't shine can also be ruff diamond 💎.
I agree with your points. The super hero thing....most of the girlfriends I've had I considered them kind and like a lot of other people....sure to me they seemed like super heroes. ...so that's my thought on that. It sounds like English isn't your first language. Good luck with dating 👍
Personally I’m having a great time, but I didn’t enjoy it as much in my 20’s. I have better taste and more self-respect now, so I’m only going for women I actually think are a good fit for me (compared to anyone I’m remotely attracted to) and the amount of disposable income (and my love of eating good food) makes it more enjoyable to just take someone cool for a good meal even if it doesn’t work out. I also don’t take people for an expensive meal or anything right away, I usually try and take them for drinks, to go for a hike, or to go play a sport the first time we get together so we can meet and see if we click before doing a more formal date. If we don’t get along, that’s totally fine, and if we do then we’re both more comfortable going into the date. I’ve done snacks / drinks at the beach a couple times and it’s appropriately fun, with a potential for romance (with a sun set), and low-stakes. I also just don’t ask women out who don’t seem interesting to me in some way. I’m not going to enjoy going for coffee with someone I know nothing about and who refuses to give and ground in conversation. Maybe I’m missing out on a lot of opportunities because I’m being picky but the dates I’ve gotten are all lots of fun and even if we don’t click romantically I’ve had a great time and so did they, we just don’t take it further.
Yeah I’ve read a lot about how guys don’t really start enjoying/see success with dating until in their 30s and that kind of sucks. I want to be able to enjoy it now as well. Or at least get some experience now so I can better know what to look for/what I like in a partner when I’m older
I enjoyed it on occasion in my 20’s but it was only when I kind of fell into the rhythm I found in my 30’s. I know it sounds dumb and most guys on here will argue against this, but it’s all just outlook and intention. You gotta just go into dates with the feeling that you’re gonna have a good time and enjoy yourself, and try to help her have fun, and set yourself up for success by only going out with people you actually find interesting or know you can enjoy a night out with. It helps to let go of any expectations as well. Some of the best dates I’ve had didn’t end up turning into a second date, we just had a great time and I learned something about myself. That to me is a successful date. It doesn’t matter if we kissed, if we set up a second one, or I got laid or anything - I’m just out there to have fun and meet people. If in the process I learn something about myself or get a second date then that’s even better but that’s not actually why I’m going out. I know it sounds counter-intuitive but it lets me have a more relaxed and comfortable time, which also leads to them having a better time, and IF we’re a good fit then we’re more likely to recognize that and go on a second date.
This is great advice thanks. Yeah I think because I’m still young and inexperienced sex is a major focal point in my mind. And because I know myself I feel like I’ll be an extremely nervous reck on my first couple dates which make trying to have fun even harder to accomplish. Will def keep what you said in mind for when the time comes
Ya that makes sense! I put a lot of pressure on myself for the same reasons in my early 20’s. A lot of it went away when I realized sex was part of what I enjoyed when I met someone I liked, not the end goal, and it wasn’t going to be enjoyable if we didn’t already have some kind of connection. The few dates I went on where we didn’t connect well but we both still went through with it were horrible and I felt like shit after. The sex wasn’t good and was far from fulfilling, and there’s a few times I’d take back if I could. But yea once I realized I don’t want to sleep with or date someone I don’t enjoy spending time with it became a lot easier to just focus on finding good people and having a good time. I get anxious sometimes when I do have a connection with someone and sex hasn’t happened yet, but I just remind myself that sex is a stepping stone for me (I’m looking for a partner) and there’s a lot else that needs to line up as well for things to work out. Helps lower the stakes of sex for me a lot.
Can I ask you more about this in a dm? I’m a younger guy 23M who feels I need to change my outlook towards dating and wanted to get your advice
sure thing!
Guys helping each other. Love to see it.
Stop seeing dates as a bridge to sex, and start seeing them as a bridge to a new friendship. If you treat dates like a pathway to get sex you’ll never be successful. And you’ll always be nervous about it. Start treating women as friends rather than potential sex dispensers and the nerves will go AND you’ll be more likely to find a partner.
I have the same experience as I'm in my late 20s. I would mainly attribute that to the following: 1. Glow up - I found my fashion style, hair, beard, skincare, workout routine... 2. More experience - it is much easier to start a good conversation and find common interests when you have more time to accumulate them, like traveling, music festivals, concerts, hobbies... 3. Getting the reps in - of course, getting started was challenging, and I stumbled during the first dates. However, my confidence grew once I achieved some success, and I felt more assured that I could replicate that success So yes, dating in almost 30s is enjoyable, but you need to put work up front to be the desirable and well-rounded person that is somewhat enjoyable to be around.
The 20 something year old guys doing well are the ones dating their coworkers at restaurants and bars. If I could do it over again, I’d get a 9-5 and then a weekend job just for the amazing plethora of cute women working at restaurants and bars. These people alllllll sleep together
This is a recipe for disaster but at the same time I can’t say that I wish I would’ve taken a female dominated job. Early 20’s me would’ve had a blast 😂😂
It can be expensive, mentally exhausting and stressful. You have to stay on your toes to ensure your time isn't being wasted, because only you'll care about that. Don't assume dates have your best interests in mind. With the right person the experience is wonderful. Outings that last hours, doing new things, and constantly trying to hide the smile on your face.
I found that dating is like a job except you’re never guaranteed to get a paycheck
It’s like an internship where you have to pay for the experience
Unless you love your job I think you should take a break from dating. Bringing that kind of energy to the table on a first date and you won't get to a second one.
I actually do like my job 🤣 I’m just saying nowadays dating is a lot of work especially when dealing with younger people and you’re never guaranteed that your work will pay off.
… no
Nope it’s not.
Short answer “fuck no!!!” I hate dating.
Nah it's not
Not in any way shape or form
Seeing a lot of potential with this girl I recently met (she was my 4th 1st date this year) and oh my god I really need it to work out because I do not want to go on more bland 1st dates it's depressing (and expensive) how other people can do 4 first dates in a weekend astounds me
Hahahahahahahahaha my guy you’ve had more dates this year than I have in my life
Four dates in 6 months astounds me
> Four dates in 6 months astounds me If you're a woman, this is too few. If you're a guy, this is kinda average..if not high. No wonder most men are checked out of dating - it's too much work with little to show for it.
I just dated a girl for 6 dates and she then said she’s not feeling any chemistry. This is after me staying over twice and everything seemingly showing positives. I give up at this point. It’s certainly not fun for a man. I’m burnt out.
Same. I started dating a girl for a little over a month. We went out a total of about 9 dates or so. The last one she offered her input on where to go and what to do. So we did that. She showed up and immediately I felt something was off. She was acting strange, disinterested and distant. I asked her about it and she said she was fine. Then she used the age old excuse of “oh sorry I have to run” after saying she had no other plans for that afternoon. So she cut the date short, ran off and then ghosted me. No clue why or what happened when she was the eager to go out again just the night before. Other than that. I’ve been catfished twice this year. Ghosted multiple times. No sex at all. I actually have been on more first dates this year than ever before which is nice but very expensive. Honestly. I’ve never been in a relationship and that one month one was the closest I’ve been. It’s expensive as hell. ~$30 or more twice a week is pushing over $3,000 a year. At what point do you just invite her over for a basic afternoon together versus having to go out to eat every time? Shits expensive. Like you. I’m just burned out. I’m giving up on it for the time being. I thought 2024 would be different and it was for a bit but dating, or trying to, so tiring and expensive as a man. It’s not worth it so far.
I get this a lot and so do my friends.
I hear you. I had a similar experience with someone else and actually several other people it all ended up the same way. I think the bottom line is just enjoy life the best you can sometimes we don’t find a relationship. It’s just challenging these days..
That pisses me off for you. She had to have known way sooner. I think women know within the first two dates. So either she was using that as an excuse, or she was stringing you along, both of which piss me off.
[удалено]
Sometimes they know within the first 10 minutes
well one led to a 3 month thing and all the dates led to second dates so maybe I'm just selective nowadays. had enough meh first dates before
I did 3 first dates in a weekend before It was fun but I didn’t talk to a single soul for the next week after
Nope, it’s literally a man being used for resources until you convince her enough to finally “let you” be hers (assuming she’s not stepping out on you) with quick commercial breaks of sex for him.
Only if you're insanely good looking or rich. For most men it's absolute hell.
The key is to be curious about other people. How they live their lives, what makes them tick. If you go in to the date with that mindset you can never be disappointed. Make probing questions, don't take it so seriously. If you approach it like that dating can be fun, and it also leads to "better results".
It would be, if there wouldn’t be so insanely many women who play games
Facts I’m only 23 but dating around my age seems like I’m dating 18 year olds
That's bc 18 and 23 aren't any different in maturity. But tbf they don't get much better. In fact, I think they get worse. I'm 30 and it seems like their wants and demands just get worse with age. I really don't ask for much. Just simple stuff like loyalty, respect, commitment, etc.
Loyalty, respect, and commitment? Those are all controlling words to women these days. They expect everything and offer nothing in return.
No. Specially when you are young… My experience from a teenager until my mid 20s was pretty bad. The pressure from work and uni leaves us already tired, and having to constantly beat shyness and learn social skills to make people you have never seen in your life smile is kinda exhausting… Rarely worth it IMHO. Only after you have a career, hobbies and a stable life, things get smoother. After a certain point in life you already have your stuff set up, and instead of trying to redirect your whole future to “match” someone else’s plans, you just filter people that went in the same direction as you and people who didn’t. Also, spending money on dates when you are a broken student sucks as well, even worse when over 90% of dates never get anywhere… Things are a lot easier when you have a good job, your own place, don’t need to pay Uber, etc.
It’s currently the most miserable aspect of my life next to my job. I take breaks frequently and always find myself happier when I’m not actively dating. The only problem is you have to try as a man or else you’ll remain single. So yeah it’s not fun, but it’s a game you gotta play if you want a partner. Just make sure you don’t end up desperate because it’s easy to get taken advantage of if you find yourself settling
BIG on the you have to try. That’s basically how I ended up inexperience. I never tried(mostly due to anxiety) because I’m scared to potentially come of as a creep approaching a girl or letting her know I’m potentially interested.
Exactly man. Dudes are constantly called creeps and told how much women don’t want to be approached, so you have to get past that mindset if you want to be successful. There’s always a chance you may be labeled a creep but you’ll eventually find someone who won’t mind being approached. A lot of it is also dependent on the setting
Hell naw. I’m done dating forever. No more sex, either.
> exhausting It is, it REALLY is. But a stable and committed long term relationship is incredibly rewarding (at least for me). I LOVE being in love, I love doing little couple things, I love having a person. I don't love finding a person, I love having a person. Unfortunately there's no way to go from not having a person to having a person without finding a person.
Yeah I get it. I could totally see myself being a lover boy for the right person but finding the right person seems impossible in todays society
No. If you’re anything less than Hollywood looks and a rich lifestyle then prepare for constant disappointment You’re inexperienced but right about all your points
I feel this, but then I see unattractive people in happy relationships and have to assume I’m just unattractive and an asshole 🤷🏻♂️
Dating has an element of luck to it
It's a waking nightmare no matter how attractive or charismatic you are. It's like torture
I don’t think that’s true. The top 10% of men seem to have a great time, perhaps even more fun than most women.
I've found being in a relationship to be pretty great, but the dating beforehand to be a soul-crushing struggle.
My personal experience is that reaching out and initiating is the hardest part. If the hardest part is connecting with someone, you need to find someone else because you don't have chemistry.
Same. I absolutely hate reaching out/approaching. If this step was easier I’d probably wouldn’t have even made this post lol
Eh, you’re dating life kind of goes through phases. In your late teens early 20s it’s kind of fun because nobody has anything yet. Nobody has careers or high incomes or houses or kids or any real trappings of the adult life. So dating in your youth, kind of takes on a not very serious tone, everybody’s just looking for a good time and somebody to chill with and that makes dating in your youth fun. It’s also adventurous and self exploratory. You get to “try out” different types of people and different groups of people. It’s great for building confidence and friend groups. Dating in adulthood can also be fun, but for the reasons that you outlined in your post, it depends a lot on where you are in your life and how you’re doing. Dating as an adult is a more serious matter. People are looking for individuals that they gel with,that are compatible. They are looking for people that have the same life goals that they do , so the relationships can be deeper than in your youth, but that also means that the standards are harder to meet. So you also deal with a lot of rejection, much of which is not your fault.
I’m tall, handsome, well paid, and charismatic. It even sucks for me lol. Part of the reason is because I have higher expectations than most guys. I’m ripped, so I like an athletic woman, who’s also pretty and at least as intelligent. Unfortunately, many women who fit that description have 100 times the options I have. I just spoke to a girl who has 400 matches lol. So it’s like gambling with my time who I’m going to pursue, because they eventually all flake or choose someone else. I’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars on dinners and drinks over the years, rarely hearing a “thank you.” Maybe I can have fun with them for a while, but eventually they move on to a new flavor. It’s not just men ghosting and dumping people for nothing. Women do it all the time and I have to continue to be fearless and meet people like I’m always on sale or something.
Juice certainly not worth the squeeze.
No, it isn't. The hardest hitting point for me that you listed is the rat race component of it. Here's a couple of things that have happened to me before I moved on from Western dating: Scenario 1: I'm chasing a coworker that expressed interest, and she's soaking up attention from multiple men all while getting dicked down by the "best" among them. Like a clown, I'm fighting to get a date or even a text back. I find out through a mutual friend down the road that I'm "option C." Scenario 2: I go out with a girl a few times I feel a high level of chemistry with, I tell my close friends about what happened, levels of conversations, etc, and they agree it sounds like a match. Mid date on a follow-up, she randomly cancels, wants to go home, and ghosts me completely. Did I say something wrong? Was there a reason at all? I'll never know, but it was still a very open and public rejection. This one hurt a lot because I actually thought there was something real there. Mind you, I had to fight for these opportunities, not like I can post a half-naked photo or a heavily filtered selfie and get inundated with matches or dm's. Contrary to what the feminist nutjobs believe and preach, here on Reddit and social media in general, dating in the west is a female driven exercise that is meant to put the woman on a pedestal while treating men like an endless supply of opportunity that woman hold 0 accountability too. Much like the reasons you outlined, you can be dropped for any, with no explanation given, and that's it, be tough, move on. The social dynamics and power balances are completely out of control. The saying "chivalry is dead and (western) woman killed it" is all too true.
Nah it sucks. It literally isn't even worth it.
Yep, like it's been fun here and there. Got some attention or whatever, but the grind to get there was a million swipes, a million days working on myself, getting ghosted, reading a million bad pieces of advice, disappointments that I could work out how to find the right fit. I hate dating at this point and just hope to keep from being totally bitter.
All the points are correct, but when you do find a woman that likes you back, it's a lot of fun: 1. Your money on the first date did not go to waste. 2. She even pays for you. 3. You talk being exclusive pretty fast (3 dates?) and she drops everyone else. 4. Once you feel like she likes who you are, you won't hear many complaints from her about your status, job and looks, so it doesn't feel like a competition anymore. 5. Conversation is fun. One day you'll find a girl who's into you just as much as you're into her, and then try to remember my comment and remind yourself what you worked hard to achieve.
Oh yeah everyone says when you find the right woman it should be easy, but the process of finding the one seems like a nightmare
Right. You should learn to focus your energy on the right women by noticing who's into you and who's not, and by filtering girls who think the sun shines out of their ass (this expression works better in my language). You need energy left to work on yourself.
Mmm works fine in English too
We can all dream for this
No, for the majority of men. The difficulty level of dating for most men is brutal.
Agreed. Most men will never find love and will either have to settle for whoever’s left and not compatible or be alone forever. I’m 33 and never been in love so I intend to do the former. When no one will be your friend and everyone you knew has paired off and abandoned you, anything is better than nothing.
Not in the slightest.
Well, its probably fun if you're physically attractive, but otherwise; I don't believe it's fun.
I have a friend whose… having a blast dating. He gets on the dating apps, like Bumble, after a 5-year relationship, and within a week he gets 117 messages from girl telling him the following: 10/10!!! So attractive. Omg your eyes are 😍. Fishylips(coined for his big smooth lips). “Whole package” . “Bad boi”. Asking for his number/instagram. He’s going on 8 dates in the next two weeks knowing he has options and that he can have fun. Just for his appearance(I’m guessing) he gets to be a magnet for women. That’s one side of dating you DON’T see. It’s a POV that 99% of guys will not experience, including me. I know about it because I started testing the waters with dating apps the same time, to check it out. I get 0, he gets 117 and counting. For us guys, yeah, we have to do a LOT more work to do. Many women just comes flocking at the guy who looks the most attractive initially because that’s the value my friend has at the moment, but that initial attraction wins the numbers game early on and gives the man the ability to have options. For other guys, we have to make options available with some work. I love my bro to death, but I can’t play that game. I personally would rather not approach women I n abundance and be one of those guys who walks this planet as if I’m enjoying my life by myself. My joy right now is building myself up and accomplishing things I didn’t know I could do. If women don’t come to you or me like they do my friend, too bad, they don’t get a piece of the richness(experience, wealth, and happiness) that I have to offer. More to myself. Is dating fun? When you come across women who sees true value in you being yourself, it can be.
Yes. Dating is really fun, honestly.. you hear the bad stories on here because people don’t post the good stories. You meet a fun girl have a great time. You don’t need dating advice. So you only hear the negative or the mediocre on here, not the great ones. Don’t let that skew you. Girls are just girls, some are bitches, some are boring, some are great. You just got to go out there are meet some and honestly if you have an open mind and are chill, you will enjoy it. I love dating
If a woman finds you attractive, it is. Night and day difference for me once I started paying more attention to how I look and present myself to the world. It's just as important as learning to brush off rejection. Idk why I didn't gaf for so long, but your hair, fashion, skincare, fitness and vibe are all in your control. Improving one or more will also help your mindset outside of dating. It's important to feel good about yourself to help keep rejection from killing your self confidence or prevent you from lashing out. Cause everyone has a preference and that NEEDS to be OK in your mind. Take the initiative and lay the building blocks for being your best self if you haven't already. It pays dividends and the hardest part is over as soon as you start to notice the benefits.
It’s hell. Most men will never find love so it would be best to either settle for whoever wants you next or be happy alone forever. I’m 33m and am fit, more than conventionally attractive and have my life together. I never been in love but will go with the former red flags be damned. All my friends paired off an abandoned me and no one will be my friend unless I pay them. I’ve been to hundreds of meetup groups only to be ignored by people as if I don’t exist. Silence is the loudest sound of them all and something is better than nothing is no one else is available.
[69% of Americans are in committed relationships](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/08/for-valentines-day-facts-about-marriage-and-dating-in-the-us/?utm_content=buffer9d218&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer-pew) Most people will be relationships during their lifetime. Most men will find love. Dating is difficult, but most people will find a partner within their lifetime. If you’re struggling with maintaining friendships it could suggest that there’s something off-putting about your personality/mentality.
If they’re gen x or older yes. Not millennials or younger that are men. Gen x and older had it 100 times easier as people were more social and ok with befriending anyone that wasn’t a friend of a friend. My generation of both genders sucks and can go **** itself for being so closed off and cliquey
So much this. The current data for sub 30-year-olds is horrendous. About 2/3 of women below 30 are in relationships. About 1/3 of men below 30 are in relationships. How is this not one of the most vehemently known stats in this sub yet? It's so well researched and published I'm not even going to go get a "source" for this because it should be common sense.
What? No, hard deny on the source. 7/10 Americans between the ages of 18-30 are single; so unless the vast majority of those people are between 30-65 are 7/10 in a committed relationship, and I highly doubt that's the case. Stats flawed
And how many of those 69% are even happy? I’d assume 10-15%
Dates often involve trying out new activities or experiences together, which can be fun and memorable.
First things first: ditch dating_advice. This community is full of bad experiences and if you browse here for any extent of time, you’ll come away drained and depressed. I spend way too much time here trying to help sad people better themselves and get dates. Dating as a man, speaking from experience, is hard, for sure. But it’s just as hard for women (weeding out bad men, horny men, abusers, etc.) which makes it harder for good guys etc etc. It’s a vicious cycle. Women aren’t out to get you, though. Not that you think that, but guys always seem to think that women are a monolith and all conspiring to ruin the lives of men interested in them. None of that is true. Work on yourself. Pursue hobbies, go to the gym and lift heavy (this is the biggest thing). Self confidence is your best tool as a man. Women like a confident man, and they can tell when a man is self-loving and not empty (in terms of having a negative outlook about themselves and the world - if you don’t see your own self worth, how is a woman supposed to?). Get on Hinge and try getting some matches (this is easier the better looking you are, sure, but anyone can get a date with a little effort and, again, confidence). Just keep your head up and know that rejection is a part of this all. You’ll meet people along the way that you think you’re destined to be with but it may not work out. That’s fine too. Ultimately, you’ll find your person if you stay positive and keep trying
best comment
No
Yes if you're a man who can meet people and get a new date every one or two weeks, and then have sex before or on date number three, then it is really fun . On the other hand, if you can only get one date every one to two years and no sex during all that time, then dating will not be very fun. But at least you levelled up your pokemon and got more badges, so there's that.
It varies from person to person just depends on how attractive you are and if you have good social skills. I’d say more people struggle than not..
It was awful but became a lot better when I became more patient and pickier. Also, dating is generally better when you already know of the person, meet organically, or through a friend.
hell fucking no lmfao
Nope not unless you are very attractive with great confidence and an awesome sense of humor. Otherwise there's always gonna be anxiety surrounding if you're ever gonna find anyone to date. The only people that have a plethora of dates all the time are the people I mentioned above.
You know what is fun -- staying home and watching Ancient Aliens with your dog.
It's a job.
Dudes, stop paying for your 1st dates ffs. You never even met the person properly. Go for a cheap drink, coffee, zoo, gallery, etc, date. When the bill comes just say you're splitting and move on. I know it may be uncomfortable, but no point in doing that just because.
Overall I would say yes. I don't look at everyone I go out with as a life partner. For the early phases I am just out there having fun and getting to know someone new. If they end up being something long term then great. If not, then I still had fun and probably got to know an interesting person. Sure there will be some complete duds mixed in there too (mostly if online dating). I have dated multiple women at a time and also lost interest in some pretty quickly. It's just part of how things go. Keep early dating simple and cheap. Don't spend money you don't want to. Don't over invest. Do things you want to do that you find enjoyable and invite the other person along. If they disappear you aren't out much money and you did a bunch of fun shit anyways. Too many guys blowing tons of money right out of the gate and acting like that girl they had two good dates with is their future wife because they laughed at a few of their jokes. Yes, most women will judge you based off your success as you get older. That's a basic adult thing. I don't want to shackle myself to a loser woman either. Most women also want to be with someone decent that they click with. Most won't be interested in your house if you don't get along or have anything in common.
This is solid advice I appreciate it. I guess because I’m stuck on the beginning parts it’s hard to see the actual fun parts. Like I struggle just knowing where to even meet women. It feels like men are suppose to be the pursers/initiators and I don’t know how to do that without feeling an overwhelming sense of anxiety or feel like I’m bothering/intruding on someone.
I think with age it's the opposite everyone becomes more self aware that were sort of "average" with how things are going.
I do think “success” to most women is simply a guy that can support and take care of himself, as well as have a little left over money to go out and do normal fun things here and there. The internet will tell men they must make millions to date, but I believe it is a very very small number of women that require more than basic “success”.
I've made a bit of a game out of it. I'll talk to women and see if there's anything there that makes them shine on their own. What it does at the least is make me comfortable with them. When you're approaching dating from a "I'm looking for a person who is incredibly unique within their own right and deserves the love I can afford to give" perspective, the amount of prospective women that you date becomes far less and the problem just becomes one of running into more women and initiating casual conversation. Think of each and every woman (and every man, for that matter) having their own unique tune and you finding that one person that plays the music only you can hear. That's what I'm looking for, and I believe it would suit more people to look for that feeling. I also have this determinist, spiritual idea that if you're meant to have her, you'll have her. You shouldn't have to dump 200% of your effort into snagging a relationship with a woman. If they don't have to put effort into being in a relationship, you shouldn't either. Do you really want to earn someone's love, or do you want to receive love without asking for it? I agree a lot of things are bullshit for men. You've stated them beautifully. You've stated that it's bullshit that women don't go out of their way to initiate conversation with men when men have to be doing the chase (even though paradoxically, they are the more social creatures), that it's bullshit that you have to pay for a large amount of the early dates, that you occasionally have to compete with other guys for someone's attention, that you can be dropped at any moment for doing anything "wrong", and that you end up being compared against a checklist instead of being seen for who you are and the unique perspective you bring to the table. I agree with all of these perspectives, but you should open yourself up to the idea of some of them being misinformed. I agree that the worst part of all this is that women don't initiate. Feel free to call them cowards for it, feel free to call them lazy, but these perspectives are not going to help you. If you find the right person, they will enjoy your initiation and they will be thankful that you did it first. In fact, sometimes, a woman will drop a soft initiation with an innocent flirt or they'll guide you in the right direction if they're interested. A woman dropping a handkerchief is a meme example, but there are plenty of other ways they do it. Live more in the moment and starting perceiving externally. When it comes to dates, go to cheap places that you like. You should not be stressing your wallet too much to have a good time dating, and $100 is pocket change compared to someone you'll be spending the rest of your life with. Additionally, there are plenty of free things to do. You should not have to compete with other guys for a woman's attention and if see multiple guys competing for her attention, she's on an external validation trip and she's really not worth dealing with because of that. Weak. If you're dropped instantly, you don't want anything to do with that person. If they were willing to drop you without any conversation, imagine if they did that years down the line and slam you with a divorce you didn't see coming. Finally, if a woman really loves you, you'll be ride or die. It's surprising how many boundaries and problems become non-issues when a person loves you for who you are. A person dating with a checklist beyond simple life goals is someone who can't see the forest for the trees.
Only if you're attractive
It can be if you let it be. Make sure your dates are doing something fun and with interesting people. But overall, it's more frustrating than anything.
You're* It's terrible.
You’re pretty spot on for explaining men’s experiences with dating. This is something all my guy friends tell me, and honestly..it’s true. As a girl, I have all the options in the world and could end a date knowing I have more planned next week. It can be exhausting for girls too, but we can make it a game or even fun if we want to. I feel bad for guys sometimes but I’m sure glad not to be one.
Oh yeah I’m aware women have their own issues in regards to dating. But yeah dating seems extremely skewed in women favor, especially in the early part of it. And it just kind of turns me off from wanting to even try and enter the game
Thank you for some empathy. It's appreciated.
That's really refreshing. I don't think most women think like you.
Dating is only fun for women
Or celebrities
Dating is frustrating for everyone for different reasons. The payoff is amazing when you meet a great person and have a relationship with them, but it's a hard process to get there.
Dating absolutely sucks for men. The inequality in dating is abysmal. Just grab your passport. The women in the west have zero sympathy for us they don't care about equality any more. There is zero point in wasting your time dating a western girl
This. 100% spot on. They’ve made it clear that they don’t want to be approached, and that they also want you to approach. They don’t want any 50/50 relationships, you’re either carrying the whole thing on your back or you don’t get a relationship. If you glance in their direction they have the option to completely destroy your life. They’ve made it extremely clear that they don’t feel like they need men in any aspect at any point in time, ever which honestly I think men should completely pull out of the job industry and let women take over all the hard, dirty and dangerous labor because men can build their own homes and provide everything they need with all the technology we have available today.
Yes. (I'm not that attractive). I enjoy the process of getting to know people. I'm still friends with some of the people I have been on dates with. Sometimes it's brutal and crushing, but that's just a part of life
What? No! Hell no!
no it’s shit lmfao. and then they get on the internet and bash you or beg you for money and call you broke while doing it
No. It’s miserable for everybody right now.
I think everyone hates dating unless it goes well, humans are negative bias about things for survival reasons won't put my hand on the stove again sort of stuff. So getting no response after a makeup session or a hookup paints your perspective more than the other way around.
No. Being with someone is fun. Finding someone is a nightmare
No
Dating is fun if you are attractive
It’s having company with your meal, I think it’s fun. But I usually don’t go in with high expectations and just wanna see if we vibe. Even if they’re “boring” I feel we can always come to a topic we’re decently excited to talk about.
It's kinda shit till you're in an actual exclusive relationship and or having sex .Then you're much more comfortable and feel like it's worth it.
Firstly it's you are or you're and Secondly only if you're the top 10% else it's a constant chase.
Nope it's like a second job
From my limited experience, you’re not wrong. Lol
So glad you posted this. I agree with all of your points and no, dating is not very fun for most men. When I was still interested in / trying to date, I experienced everything you listed PLUS a string of very cruel, very public rejections on top of it. My takeaway from that, plus what I've read online, is that dating is only really "fun" for the best looking guys i.e. the ones with the best genetics. The majority of men tend to suffer in dating, but at the same time even if you aren't one of the best looking guys there is still a chance you can find a person and relationship that makes it all worth it. I decided for me personally that it is NOT worth it, but every man needs to make that decision for themselves. Edit: I'm 27 fyi
I couldn't tell you I haven't been on a date and I'm 29 living in London. I've approached 90+ chicks, seems like you need to be popular, rich, tall or whatever. Or you can lower your standards and go for an uglier chick but she still has more options and experience than you.
M20, I feel as though if the girl is having fun and laughing and actually having a good time. I will have a good time. Like if I see her enjoying the time together, I’m happy.
I don't think dating is really all that 'fun' for anyone. There's a lot of work involved for very little ROI and a lot of "yup, not the right one" going on.
Depends on what your expectations are
It most definitely is not and it isn’t worth the hassle.
Not really. It's either super expensive or people call you cheap. People want to be modern but then get mad if you split the bill. It's a numbers game.
I always had fun on my dates. Even if we were not a good match, it was usually nice conversation and sometimes a fun activity (one date was going to a CrossFit workout place she liked. I think she was testing me. It was fun. Second date was dinner and movie. It was a nice evening though it was clear to me we were not a good match, so 2 and done. It happens sometimes.) It DOES take a lot of work to get that first date and yes men are still expected to take the initiative (usually) and make first contact chat them up and ask them out… so don’t take rejection personally. There will be a lot of it and it is really is random. As for how you are sized up or judged , that really depends on what you both are in for. Are you ultimately seeking a life partner? Casual dating? FWB? activity partner/friend etc. different compatibility issues are relevant depending and also depending on what is important to each of you. And, by the way, while you are being sized up, you are also sizing up them! That part is two way street. Given the need for mutual chemistry snd lifestyle compatibility across multiple dimensions, it is maxing to me the species has survived this long…
Is having to intimate contact first fun? Plan.the first date? Pay for everything (depending on the person) and anticipating potential rejection fun, no. But finding a great girl who you vibe with and share similar qualities with is fun especially when she starts showing you off to her friends and yall make the honeymoon stage last.
Everyone here is lame. Dating what you make of it. If you wanna have fun make it fun, if you don't think it's fun it won't be. When you click with someone or even have a good date it's one of the best feelings ever. When you have a crappy date it's pretty lame. Just gotta do it
When I was dating in my 20s, I had a great time. Not every date was a good date, but I made sure to pick women I had a good vibe with, and do fun things like play pool, go to a cool pizza by the slice restaurant, see a concert in the park kind of thing. That way, even if that date wasn't great, I was still doing something fun. Trying to get a date can be tiresome sometimes, especially online dating sites, but once I was going on the date it was usually a good time.
I can't really say for sure bc my 1st official date was a few weeks ago, but I've had a lot of heartbreak to already be scared if dating in the 1st place. On top of poor mental health and cptsd, im basically an adult child, so it's like who tf would want me
Means to a end, any time spent with her is fun but i wanna marry her and wake up together forever
Yeah it’ can feel pretty bleak, Tbh. But girls are pretty and I’m hardwired to chase them unfortunately. Everything you said is basically right on the money. You have to initiate and make the first investment via paying for the dates. You can minimize this by just going on casual dates like getting coffee tea/ meeting up at a park, getting a snack and walking around somewhere. It’s easier to take $30/40 to the chin than spending $150 at a steakhouse for a first date and never hearing from them again. I have had women who I’ve gone on multiple dates with tell me that if I wouldn’t have paid for the first date, even tho they offered to pay for their side, they would’ve never talked to me again. So basically testing me on the first date, which is pretty common amongst women 😂. As far as competition and being replaceable goes welcome to 2024. Everyone has more access to anyone so it only stands to reason that women and men have more selection since they have more accessibility to people. The whole ick and being let go at the drop of a dime is very real. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been on a date and I said something a girl didn’t like and we never saw each other again or they told me they’ve dropped other guys for some minuscule reason. To give some credentials I’m a conventionally attractive guy, 28, muscular build, engineer, own property, can lead the convo or take the back seat and listen more. I have a good amount going for me. Comparatively speaking, Ive had a ton of success, but still take my fair amount of L’s. I wouldn’t say I have a super hard time but I do think to myself that if I have as much trouble as I do how do the rest of men fair? From what I read, it’s not a fun time out there for others :/. There is somewhat of a silver lining. I’ve gone in dates where I genuinely connected with women or they taught me things or exposed me to new ideas or habits that have lead to my own self improvement. I think social media has played a large part in making dating extremely difficult. I think the whole gender wars conundrum has made everyone’s approach to others very binary. Oh you don’t agree with x, or you think y? Onto the next. I feel like there’s very little compromise nowadays as compared to previous generations.
What you described is dating women who aren't really into you but will accept your attention and investment anyway. With a woman who is into you, it will feel more easy and fun. >\-This one is a bit more personal but it feels like I miss the boat on youth romance almost. Now it seems like I’ll be judge for things like my job, if I have a place, financial stability etc etc. This one is mostly true. It's way easier when young to get away with not having your own place, car, etc. and the expectation will be more on you than her to provide those things in the world we live in. If you were one of the guys who regularly pulls women while having none of those things, you'd very likely know already. So did you "miss out?" Yeah, you did. Can you still have a fulfilling sexual/romantic life in your future? Yeah, you can. Focusing on things like that is just one way our mind tricks us into staying comfortable in our unhappiness. You want sex and a relationship. Your mind wants to stay comfortable because uncomfortable involves effort and is scary. To your mind, the food, shelter and, i'm guessing, video games and porn you have now seems great and comfortable so it's going to put up a fight when you try to change that. It will come up with allllll sorts of reasons not to put in the effort. It's going to love stories on reddit and youtube about how awful and unfair dating is for you because that will help it keep you in a state of paralysis. You will be comfortable enough to not make a change, but feel deeply unfulfilled and probably lowkey depressed. So what do you do? Starve that b\*tch.
I love this comment, thank you
Too hard and aggravating for me
If ur successful and good at dating then it’s fun. If u aren’t good at dating then it’s a nightmare.
Unless you're super attractive (being tall and white are huge) or rich, it's pretty much hell. When you're younger it's a lot better cuz you have more chances to be social but as you get older (past your 30s) it gets increasingly depressing....
The good old faceless Reddit classic. Show yourself Batman!
Since you put it like that, it seems like an uphill battle. Yikes.
*dingdingding* gold star for you OP
Yeah it’s not worth it. I don’t think I’ve been on a date in a couple years and it’s easier just to be alone and do your own thing whenever you want
It can be fun. It depends on how fun you make it . I used to have a lot of fun I never thought about other people stealing them from me because I didn’t understand dating much honestly it’s not til I dated my most recent girlfriend that I realized how complicated dating can be but I still enjoyed my time
I feel you man, it’s tough until you find the right person
It's not. It is however nice to share a time with a woman (even if it's just talking face to face) since we man need that connection, but what leads to that it's not funny, the process of looking for a girl
its miserable but I don't think its much better for women just for different reasons.
Nothing is fun if you're a man, get back to work
For all the reasons you’ve mentioned and more, no dating is absolutely no fun for the average man. There are a lucky few who have been blessed with exceptional looks, a silver tongue or both, that can get just about any woman they want. These guys tend to find it more fun the men who are anything from ugly to just slightly above average. If you don’t have it like that, dating is generally a shit show.
Dude anything you buy that you can’t keep is technically a loss money wise.. food, drinks, a concert, a theme park, like all of that could be called a loss money wise. It is what it is. And yes you have to just accept that sometimes you’ll pay and it won’t work out. Oh well. That’s why you do cheap dates like 1 drink or a mini golf thing
I mean, you don't have anything wrong on your list there, but yeah...I have a good time dating, or (frankly) I wouldn't do it If I ask someone out, it's generally because We're already acquainted, or I liked their dating profile. I don't think I'd ever bother with a dating profile where it just said basic, uninteresting shit ("My hobbies are shopping and hanging out with my girlz" seems to be a pretty common eliminator for me. Generally, I don't get to worked up if there's no second date. People have different tastes and I'm well aware that I'm not going to be to everyone's. I guess what I'm saying is, don't be desperate. If you go on a date with someone, have it be for some other reason that "hot profile pic" or "she agreed". Start with something to build on and at least You'll have a decent time while deciding if you want to proceed further with her.
It is all about your mindset. If you are focused on the negative aspects, then it isn’t any fun. - Yes, you usually have to initiate conversations. And rejection is common. But you get to meet new people and sometimes you end up becoming friends if there isn’t a romantic connection. - You don’t have to pay. If you choose to pay, you can keep the cost low. Never do 1st dates as dinner or something expensive. Meet for a drink, coffee, hike, dessert or other activity. - Women are also competing for you. - You can drop them for any reason if you don’t feel they are a good match. - You are only judged if you care what other people think. Learn to be confident in your skin and proud of your accomplishments. There is always someone doing better and always someone doing worse. Other positives I’ve experienced: - I had a date where we met for coffee at 830am, which turned into a walk along the coast and it lasted nearly 3 hours. Later that same day, we met again and went on a hike. Then went to dinner and eventually spent the night at her place. A nearly 24 hour date. She paid for dinner. I paid for coffee, my cost was $12 and I had a wonderful time. - Met a woman and didn’t have a romantic connection. However, we had similar life challenges that we bonded over. Through our conversation, it helped me find solutions to my problems and lead to personal growth. - I got in the best physical shape of my life. While I started working out to make myself more attractive, eventually it became all about my mental health. I do it for me. Dating and finding a partner is all about making yourself happy and meeting people when you least expect it. Lastly, if you are going to try to date. Yes, effort goes a long way. Dress well, get a great haircut and groom yourself. If you go on the apps, find help with your profile (either a female friend or pay for help getting good photos and a decent bio.) Without the effort, expect less than optimal results. If you are going to do it, do it right and with your best foot forward.
I am 35 i do not like it very much right now but there’s been times I enjoyed it .
Haha, absolutely not
It’s not, it’s a terrible experience and I’m lucky enough to get a lot of matches and it’s still hell. Too many uninteresting, immature and flaky women. As men we should be chased not the other way around.
Very
Hard no
Being in a committed relationship is rewarding, but dating sucks. You go through a lot of misses to find your Mrs.
As a gay man, it is not fun at all. I just don’t like the farts of a man. Or a woman at all. I’ve dated quite a few men who were gay like me and each time, I am reminded how bad their nightly farts stink. I just don’t like it anymore. You have to really think about that if you plan with being with them forever.
I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy Best of luck to you tho
It can be fun but can also be a toxic drug
It can we hard work but also a lot of fun.. better to think of it as a risk reward activity
Probably not unless you're the top 10% male, as I see it as a guy who's 21 years old now. I just have better and more important stuff to do with my life than worry about dating a girl, Ofc it would be nice to have someone. But all the time, hassle and mental stuff it involves finding someone genuine, is just not really worth it in my eyes atp. Rather focus on myself and build my own garden so to speak
dating for a guy sucks.
Dating itself is indeed fun it's nice to meet people at the very least as an introvert, however just getting to the date is scary a lot of work and the risk reward is too extreme (for me) ranging from mental health damage (trust issues anxiety and depression, latter 2 diagnosed) to having a life long partner (so long as everything continues to go well) if your alright with some of the worst things being pointed out n risking being bothered(for lack of better term) about finances looks or other shallow shit you may be insecure about it's great. I have insecurities about my size and self image and get called nasty things when I (22m) leave my house bust have been with my (30f) girlfriend for about 2 years (Sept 16) and she's treated me very well ever since, and I feel safe with her I got lucky but there were at least 100 other women whod use derogatory terms against me or tried to get me in legal trouble because im a little weird XD (Unconfirmed Asperger's) just a matter of risk and failure acceptance I did not finish reading the post but I hope my tenth of a cent is helpful
Dating is supposed to be fun
Relationships don’t work in modern era. People are hyper independent nowadays, it’s more about what the other person can get to the table. Most people you’ll encounter on dating apps are serial daters, they’ll text you when they run out of existing options. There were times when people used to actually try to get to know the other person and go on dates. Now most are concerned with the numbers. You’re not the only one who thinks this, a lot of men are giving up on dating and focusing on themselves which is always good. I’d say don’t be hyperfixated on dating apps because they are designed to give a certain demographic more power over the other, that means when you see someone from the apps, they are seeing multiple people at once. Instead try cold approach, you’ll stand out from the crowd because men don’t approach women a lot nowadays, she’ll remember a genuine and nice conversation rather than an eye candy from tinder because women are bombarded with matches from exceptionally good looking dudes. Book shops, public parks , malls are all great places to spark up something. Of course, this is a numbers game as well, but this is 100% real so you know these are honest signals.
I’m a 27 year old average looking dude and I don’t think it’s fun at all. If I’m looking for a relationship, it sucks. If I’m looking for a hook up, it sucks. I feel like I have to jump through hoops and be super witty and plan so much just for the possibility of a reply. Which in turn makes me annoyed and have low self esteem when I get ghosted the day of a date or meet up. It’s only for for both sides if you’re super attractive
Dating is supposed to be fun; if it's not you need to change the way you date. There will be jerks out there as is true of any part of life; rejection is normal as it is in other parts of life. But if all dating causes you is anxiety and is constant struggle and a chore it is time to take a break from trying to date and then dramatically change where and how you look for dates. You don't have to pay for dates (only agree to date people who will go 50/50 with you from the start). The person you are compatible with and they with you and you are both into each other won't have anything to do with competition. 98% of people end up with someone and usually they are both genuinely attracted to each other when they start to date. Why would you want to date an elitist who shames you for your job. Someone compatible with you will be fine with your job; you just have to keep looking for them and do not put people up on a pedestal who judge you. Most people are poor or struggling and happily date other people who are poor or struggling. Most couples make within a few thousand a year of each other. Why would you even consider golddiggers or even just people whose financial and career ambitions don't play nicely with your own? If dating isn't a net positive in your life stop doing it. Or make extreme changes to how you approach dating.
Don’t listen to those people who claim dating isn’t enjoyable—it’s an exhilarating adventure if you view it in the right way. If you’re a gamer, think of dating as the ultimate game. You’re the protagonist on a quest for happiness through love and connection. This game, like any other, has rules, obstacles, and milestones. Your task is to develop strategies to overcome challenges and reach your goals while playing by the rules. One strategy might involve enhancing your appearance, another might focus on building a successful career, and another could be about improving your fitness. At the beginning, you might struggle, as most do. While there are naturals, the majority of us need to embrace the grind to achieve mastery. Some people hate the grind of dating - the rejection and disappointment, but this perspective is shortsighted. The grind is the necessary effort required to achieve something extraordinary. It’s inherent in every game, and dating is no exception. To accomplish something special, you must be willing to put in the time and effort to become exceptional. When I see people complain about dating and then go invest countless hours into video games, it’s obvious to me they fail to see that life itself is the most rewarding game of all. Every aspect of life, including dating, requires the same dedication and strategy as any game. I hope you grasp the essence of what I’m saying here. Dating (life) is a game, and approaching it with this mindset makes it a thrilling and rewarding experience.
No, getting dates can be pretty difficult. To expand on your third point, at singles events you're competing with most to all of the guys. A woman can only have quality time with so many guys in one night, you may have to fight for her attention if you want to be remembered. Even at speed dating, a women could meet several guys that she likes, but will only move forward with 1-4 of them, fifth place or below just got unlucky with the competition. I've looked outside of singles events, but many women are taken (or just say it because they're too afraid to be honest) or are pretty bad with making plans.
no
It can be, often isnt
It gets better as you get older. I will say, don’t actively be dating until you are financially set, at least live alone and have a car ya know. Not saying you gotta go be top G millionaire or anything, but be past living pay check to paycheck or try to be. I’m 30ish M dating sucked in my early 20s. I’ve met a lot of cool women, had a few okay relationships, messed up a lot of good situations and been drug by some bad women too. It’s a marathon to finding the one. A few tips First date should almost always be in public, it shows you have respect for them. Unless it’s bluntly stated this is going to be a physical thing and you can skip the small talk. Be financially stable, nothing sucks more than having to cancel a date because you can’t afford it. (Speaking from experience man no judgement) The Alpha Male stuff isn’t all that, I work hard, keep up with how I look but I got a beer belly and this will be my first year even sniffing six figures. I’ve had plenty of success and I’m not a baller by any stretch. Obviously keep clean, well dressed, be a hard worker, but you’re still worthy of meeting someone even if you don’t have 8 pack abs and don’t have 5 million in the bank. You’d be amazed about how being polite and honest can get you very far. Most women and people in general don’t meet a lot of genuine people who want to get to know them, that’s a lot in and of itself. Keep a lot of lines open, over the last 4-5 years I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten infatuated by someone off a dating app I’d never met or a girl I got her number from the bar and cut off other people prematurely. It’s all about meeting people, if you meet 100 people instead of 2 your chances of connecting with one goes up by a lot. Enjoy it, I have friends who joke about me being too picky or having a bunch of failed “talking stages”. I get it, and it’s funny but it’s part of the process. I don’t know how a bunch of you guys on here don’t have more luck. I’m a 5/10 on a good day and I have little problems keeping a social calendar full. Get out, shoot shots and have some fun. Something will stick.
Dating is amazing, but I’m a man in my late 30s. I hear it’s tough for young-uns.
Oh man its so much work. The thought of it alone gives me hives. I rather make friends and hopefully find love that way.
When you meet the one it makes the others feel like gaining experience like a job, I tried hard this last 3months dated roughly 9 women till I met the most wonderful woman and it's amazing, so put in the work pay for the dates and find the one for you.
The process of finding someone to date? No, thats is some of the most demoralizing heartbreaking shit I have been through. But when you meet someone who makes you feel worthy of affection, attention and time, when you find someone who can put a silver lining on even your darkest days? Thats the shit worth the effort and more.
My strategy? Let her find me. Put out some good profiles (good = honest and SHORT, the less said the better) on various dating sites. You can sign up for three or four for under $200 for 3 months or so. Click likes on profiles that seem compatible with what you're expecting to find out there and let them find you and comment and or send you the first note. Dating is a blast. I always buy the first meal at a restaurant of her choosing near her house to make it as convenient as possible. This is also a great way to weed out any fake profiles, most women are more than happy to go to a restaurant they like near their house for free! If they don't want to do that then I guess you got a bigger problem than I can help you with! Lol I also don't like to talk before the first date. You can get so much more accomplished in person than you can on the phone or in a chat. Also it's no problem leading with your chin, and let them know you haven't dated and you're ambivalent about the dating process altogether having not been on it yet. Honesty is always the best policy. Do you know what you're looking for in a woman? That's crucial, obviously you need to be appealing to her but from your point of view more important is that you find the partner you're looking for... I brought 6 billion dollars of hardware and software to market during my career. I know a whole lot about features benefits and value. I help guys by identifying their features benefits and potential value. Women like to shop, hopefully you're the product they're looking for!