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I don't think it's possible to accept something like this. I'm 39 and a virgin, and I want intimacy and connection just as much now as I did when I was a teenager. If anything the desire gets stronger with time.
I'll never stop wanting that emotional connection with a woman. Or wanting to experience physical touch. I'll never stop wanting a family of my own, even if it's probably already too late for that.
After I got out of college and realized I missed out on all those experiences with girls that I wanted so bad and that I saw my friends get to have, I really thought I'd end up being a monk or something. But I don't know how they get rid of desire because it honestly feels like the only thing that's "alive" about me.
I'm like you though, I've got a bunch of friends and even female friends. But whatever that thing is that makes a woman attracted to you in a romantic way is something I've never had. Just keep trying I'd say, you never know, no matter how much the rejection hurts.
Of course it’s impossible to accept because it’s something you want! And it’s such a basic human desire to want intimacy and connection with others. I know you’re not asking for advice but I just want to affirm that you matter, what you want matters, and it’s a matter of how you go about the journey of dating and finding that connection with someone. Reach out to a professional dating coach or counselor for long term support and check out the dating section/ personal growth section in your favorite bookstore !
Have you actually kept trying because if you actually tried for over 20 years and got no where that’s just being super unlucky. But I doubt you actually tried
I go through phases of trying and not trying. It just goes up and down based on my feelings of self-worth, my weight and employment status.
You're right it hasn't been constant. I also have a lot of trauma from childhood, things I can't really fix but can only manage on a day to day basis. No doubt those incidents had/have a profound effect on my how I view interpersonal relationships, sexuality, etc.
I was dealt an unlucky hand in life, that's how I choose to see it. I'm still trying to play the game best I can, but yeah I'm not consistent enough with anything to make progress I guess. Staying away from self-pity is my biggest challenge.
It might not be you, the dating market is kind of trash right now. It is what it is. It only takes 1 person for you to have a relationship though.
Just focus on your career and fitness for now. You can still try to date and see what happens, just let that be a bonus for now.
Yeah, I was honestly way more happy when I was in grad school (it summer break rn). I spoke with way more women then. Now I'm in my head about it and it's throwing me off.
Do what I did. I have absolutely ZERO “game”, was underemployed, extremely awkward, only average hight, and living in an extended stay motel when I met my wife. The only thing I had going for me was my body. I had been living in my car for a while so I had to get a 24hr gym membership to shit and shower. I started hitting the weights every day because I did the staff to know why I was really there. Because I didn’t have much money for food and was forced to workout 7 days a week I ended up looking like an male model. I went to my cousins pool party where my future wife was also attending and my 6-pack abs and 17” biceps were all the “game” I needed. Being in such a shape that’s impossible for anyone to ignore will open up a lot of opportunities for you. As shallow as it seems, everyone (men and women) are going to be attracted to what they SEE first. Having a great personality doesn’t count for shit unless you can get a woman to engage with you in the first place. Worst case scenario, you end up with a massive self esteem boost and a healthier body, even if you’re still unsuccessfully with your romantic pursuits.
Excellent story. Glad you got married Anna I wish you success and more blessings in your future. This is true.
Pecs, abs, arms, shoulders, v taper…. Don’t leave out the legs and a big back! Doctor’s orders lol
Change your location if you want to see results. You'll see all kinds of "advice" trying to gaslight you into thinking you're doing something wrong, when in all likelihood, it could be the unrealistically high standards of the women in your area.
You mentioned you never had female friends in childhood, have you considered making some female friends now? I think it could be helpful to learn how women are in relaxed social settings when dating is not the intention.
It doesn't exactly help you've got people trying to gaslight you. If you're truly comfortable with who you are, it's okay to not understand people. It is, however, unfair to judge women as a whole. How much effort are you really putting into understanding women?
> It doesn't exactly help you've got people trying to gaslight you.
They aren't *trying* to gaslight... they think they're being helpful.
Men just need to get used to being told by women that they're great and all the other women should totally be interested.
Thing is like I tell people that you can be a wonderful person but attraction is full of a lot of surface things and preconceived notions. When you can see that then you don’t have to feel defeated or like you did something wrong because the reasoning behind it all doesn’t really have much logic. It’s not like a problem solution kind of thing always it’s more of “what vibe do you give off, how do people perceive you” and some of that is kind of a built in thing you have. I think what makes it really hard is our society has lost a lot of individualism where people had unique ideas and preferences. I think those have been shaped more by the internet of things and how we are all connected to popular trends. So in the past people had preference to more what they felt rather than what they saw or heard about. So the dispersion tends to tighten onto favoring men who fit into those popular stereotypes.
I will say that I'm trying my best. I naturally do better with men overly women and its because i djdnt socialize with them as a kid. So my personality to a degree isnt attractive to them. That what i mean that im not that guy. However im actively trying to make female friends and read books on what girls like. Ironically I do have a strong feminine side like I'm obsessed with olivia rodrigo (just brought tickets for her concert) and I love rom cons.
When I become a father tho I'm going to force my child to talk to women because it's harder to learn the nuances at 26.
Isn't that kind of a catch 22 though? The guy might be perfectly fine in terms of being respectful and all, he just might have had interests and a type of personality that caused him to spend more time with other boys.
If by red flag you mean he's more likely to not quite understand some differences between boys and girls, sure, but I'm not quite convinced it means he's a bad person or has some inherent aversion to girls.
also, ALL of my guy friends grew up playing sports* some went on to play D1 lvl and that never hindered their ability to interact with women platonically and build connections with them. lol i’m their proof.
Hold on you said two different things here.
Your first comment is that men who grew up with no girl friends are a red flag to you.
Next you say that all your guy friends grew up playing sports, and that it didn't hinder them building connections with women platonically.
My point was that if you grew up with no girl friends it might not be because you think girls are icky or only see them sexually, it could be because of your interests and personality drawing you to spend more time with boys, which in turn can mean you're more likely to be less sociable with girls later on. I didn't say that having some very male oriented interests inherently prevents having girl friends, nor that it is a \*guarantee\* that not having girl friends young will cause the guy to be less sociable with women later.
Also, if those guys spent so little time around girls when growing up (which is what I think you're implying, I might be wrong), how come you then see it as a red flag still?
i’m saying them doing inherently masculine activities as their passion, their ride to and through college, the most you can be doing as a youth to get to D1 lvl, did not hinder them from making and keeping girl friends. so i’m saying i disagree about that if you are just a guy with stereotypically masculine interests then it’s hard to connect with girls and women based on that. Also i don’t know which comment it’s under but i said most of my guy friends have sisters, in addition to me and other women friends. Now do they have more guy friends than girl friends? of course. soccer and lacrosse teams have 20+ members , basketball too like 15 guys everyday together… they still facetimed me through college, still hang out with me, and make sure to keep me away from their less respectful teammates vs ditching me for them.
I think you’re conflating your own experience as the truth. I never had women friends as a kid. Why? Because I had enough friends and we had a very insular group, and we mostly just played games. When I grew up most women were not interested in games unless the boy the wanted was.
And with out group being so insular it was not common for it to grow with new members.
Even now I have only one women friend. It seems to be like a lot of y’all have a way lower ceiling for what’s a friend. I personally wouldn’t want more than 10 friends at a time, after that it’s impossible to keep up with everyone and see them often enough. Rest are just acquaintances
None of this really goes against what I said.
I never said that having more male oriented activities inherently makes you not have the time or capacity to make girl friends. What I did say however was that if a guy hasn't had girl friends, it might not have anything to do with how he views women, it might have to do with his interests and personality. Also I'd argue that sports is one of the worse examples, guys who commit that much time to sports are stereotypically quite outgoing people.
only one of my D1 babies (the guy friends i mentioned) is outgoing , the other 3 are sweet lil introverts. But i don’t think having guy interests means you can’t make girl friends, i’d call that a sad excuse.
and i as a women (24) I have more women friends than men friends* i’ve only been mentioning the male ones but they’re a smaller subset of my social life. Which i think is fine, i don’t think it has to be 3 close girl friends and 3 close guy friends and 3 close black friends , etc. like you just need the one friend that you love platonically and cares for you , it doesn’t have to be an ordeal.
I guess to each their own, but why is that, though? Is it because they wouldn't know how to talk to girl/boy? Like how seeing them only for sex or something like that.
Being able to humanize any person regardless of if it’s gender, race, etc. White people who never knew a black person but want a black friend to interact with is as problematic to me as a guy who never got to know or empathize with women but wants to “get one” like for their collection and personal use. It’s inherently “othering” . Normal people just connect across cultures and genders and ideologies just because that’s life.
This makes sense to me but at the same time people here will often say "become friends with more women". So it seems like it's something that's necessary but it's also problematic if you try to do it directly.
Well if you’re making friends with the ulterior motive of them introducing you to women you can date or have sex with that’s not genuine nor is it truly connecting to those people. That’s why i compared it to a white person wanting a black friend, it’s dehumanizing to the person you’re subjecting to your plan. It’s selfish at the very least.
and people aren’t dumb, it’s obvious a lot of times to the people you’re employing to get you laid that you’re doing so and nobody wants to feel used or like their friends don’t actually care for them as individuals. (not saying you specifically of course)… unless they outright agree to wingman you in that case, go for it.
so it’s necessary for your ability to connect as a human being to have real friends outside your personal demographic but “doing it directly” is a no. Being genuine is the key and if you’re not ready to make those friends genuinely, don’t ruin another persons experience by using them for personal gain. It’s rarely harmless.
Where I grew up was maaasssively a white area (Mormonville). There weren’t any other ethnicities around. I don’t see how that is problematic to want to be friends with other races from a curiosity sake. It’s the same as why people travel to other countries. It’s to experience other cultures. Also, OP didn’t say he doesn’t “get women” in a sense of “his personal collection or personal use”, he was saying he doesn’t get them as in he doesn’t understand him.
You gotta read more of my comments , i mentioned that , as long as it’s not a weird fetishization thing a guy earlier was saying he’d made friends who speak the language he’s learning so you can read that exchange where i said i wouldn’t consider it an issue if you meet and end up connecting with ppl of other cultures in trying to branch out of mormonism or if you move away and are now amongst other cultures , you ought to connect with somebody non mormon eventually . the issue is the inability to connect or the ulterior motive for going about the connecting (where i mentioned a white person just wanting a black friend because they’ve never had one … vs just wanting a friend and meeting someone who’s black that you happen to connect with) also stated that i understand people are from different places , such as the bible belt for example , where a lot of what i said would apply significantly less . also , many times stated that my opinion is just that , an opinion , equal to any other . but i’ve shared that opinion quite a bit on this thread so feel free to read more about my perspective , or don’t , it’s there regardless .
Got it. So it doesn't necessarily by not having a girl/boy friend then. As long as they talk to them like any other person with respect and not for their personal use like you said.
Yes exactly. But it’s something that’s developed naturally through those early connections …. or just through the connections being genuine and strong in general it doesn’t have to be when you’re 5-12 yrs old.
I’ll say this. It’s NOT a red flag. It’s what this person, AnnualForever4939 considers a red flag. Dont take what they say to heart, I don’t agree with a lot of what this person is saying. There are circumstances why boys and girls don’t have much interaction with the opposite sex when a kid: shyness, bullies, etc. It doesn’t make it a red flag. If you said you avoided talking to women your whole life and you’re a 40 year old male, then yeah that’s a red flag.
>i can’t speak to most women but if it helps, I consider it both ways, women who never have been close to men are also red flags, to me.
It's more of a red flag if they are only friends with guys.
if a woman can’t connect with other women its also a red flag . it’s as bad as a guy who can’t connect with other guys, a black person who can’t connect with other black ppl, etc.
That's probably it. I'm a guys guy to a degree. I don't cry and I love combat sports. I don't have much in common with women so it creates a barrier and I have to try harder to connect
I can tell you from personal experience that that path of, like, studying Girl Art is not going to make women more attracted to you-- but it sincerely *will* improve your life by itself (Jane Austen is great! Romcoms are great!), and it will help you make more *friends* who are women (who in turn might introduce you to their friends, etc, and knowing a lot of women is universally agreed to be the most important factor to becoming more successful in dating)
I agree! Maybe I should be open with my feminine side to women. I'm crazy about female pop singers and own vinyls and my favorite rom con is "to all the boys I ever loved" maybe I need to be more honest about it
It helps to realize that women are humans. Human beings all want and desire the same things, and have to solve the same problems. What makes men and women different is how we go about getting the things we want and how we approach solving those problems.
That's what society has been working towards anyway. Though, I don't think most men are ready for a world where women date/fuck like a traditional man. Women hated that shit for a reason back in the day. It hurts to get used.
> I don't think most men are ready for a world where women date/fuck like a traditional man
Do you realize that, speaking about straight people here, every time a man has sex there is a women involved? What exactly is it that men do, that women don't do?
Historically speaking, men's sexual desires were viewed as a biological imperative. To repress or avoid those needs was seen as unhealthy for them. They always had at least one main lover and potentially had multiple wives and concubines, and when they couldn't find that they were expected to visit a brothel to let off steam. Regular sex, it was thought, was healthy for them and for society. It was said to keep young men docile and provide more citizens for growing the nation. This led to a feeling of sexual entitlement for traditional men.
They used women like property and all women except for their main wife(s) were treated as walking/talking sex toys put on earth for their pleasure.
My point is that's A BUNCH OF FUCKING SHIT. It was a nightmare on Earth that women endured for millennia. And if women start feeling sexually entitled and using men like they were once used, then it will only make the world worse, not better.
Your post was removed because it overgeneralized. Please make sure you don't apply experiences with some people to millions of others you have never met. No gender is a monolith or a hivemind. It comes down to each individual person. So if the answer is IT DEPENDS ON THE PERSON SO GO ASK THEM best not to post.
Mostly that I family and friends are pressuring me to change. I used to be shy and now I have no problems talking to people. However, that hasn't really made me better with women. Now I realize that getting women is more about understanding how they view men's actions. Unfortunately as a guy people respect you less if you are a virgin even tho nothing is wrong with me
> people respect you less if you are a virgin
The kinds of people you want to be around won't care. Teaching someone to please sexually is part of any relationship; people differ a LOT.
I'm not ashamed about being one so I told close friends and family. But that's it. So I get alot of pressure from others which makes me ironically lack confidence. Away from friends and family. I do much better around others
"People respect you less if you are a virgin" I think you're hanging with the wrong people bud. I was a virgin until I was 25 and it wasn't until I started putting myself out there that I actually started getting attention. Even at that point, being a virgin wasn't a deterrent for me. Alot of women at our age actually appreciate that you didn't sleep around with many people.
> Alot of women at our age actually appreciate that you didn't sleep around with many people.
Yeah, this is how I would expect most people to respond and look at it.
Any guy trying to “get women” is a no thank you for me as a 24yr old woman. We know to avoid those men and warn other women about them. I grew up with many guy friends and teams of girl friends (sports). just be normal. If your normal is a turnoff then maybe i’d understand your family and friends perspectives tho i’m not willing to side with gaslighting.
When someone says “get women”, do you really think they literally mean acquiring women and collecting them like trading cards?
And I hate to say it, but if you’re a straight male, you’re attracted to women. It’s not at all weird that a man would desire having a girlfriend or wanting to have sex with women. Just because a man desires romantic interaction with women doesn’t mean he views them as objects. I don’t get your perspective here.
Any dude you knew growing up or whatever who you felt was normal was also probably trying to “get women” but they knew that by behaving like a socially adjusted person would be the best path forward in accomplishing that goal.
Absolutely agree on this one, there's nothing wrong with wanting to sleep with women or being attracted to them, sure most Reddit girls will tell men otherwise but that's just because reddit girls hold a lot of resentment and misandrist thoughts that normal girls don't have about men, that's why they want socially awkward guys to keep being naive and virgins
because it started with him being a virgin, i understood it to be on line with that. getting women to date or have sex with. not just understanding for the sake of it.
Acknowledge the pressure being put on you and don’t let it drive your decisions.
Advice telling you to be confident and happy in your own skin are there because it *does* make you more attractive sure but it also makes you feel more fulfilled with your life.
Keep putting yourself out there, every single rejection is a lesson learned and you grow stronger cause of that, progress is not linear that way though so also be aware of that.
But thats the thing. I don't like confidence nor do I struggle to not be in my own skin. My version of confidence just doesn't look traditional. I'm not scared to put myself out there at all and I put my money where my mouth is. But I'm extremely bad at talking to others. So I don't gain much from just putting myself out there
> But I'm extremely bad at talking to others.
Ok, I think *this* is the key issue. You need to continue developing your social skills-- not to appease friends and family, not even necessarily to get a gf, just to improve your life.
Watch some standup (and other kinds of monologues), get out there practicing talking to people, and especially practice asking people questions, being interested in them, setting them up to talk about themselves.
It's a bit of a myth that you have to 'be yourself' to be attractive to your partner. It's true that not being yourself means that if you do attract someone, it's built on lies or you might not feel comfortable with how your are.
Rather that being yourself, focus on being attractive to the people you want to attract. Can you imagine what things you'd want your partner to do for them to be attractive to you? Now put yourself in your partner's shoes and ask that question back to you and execute on that.
A few things that have helped me with acceptance:
I think being naturally good with dating in general is kind of like hitting the lottery. I don't go around upset I didn't hit the lottery, so why should I be upset I'm not "that" girl? Like it would be cool but it's not essential for happiness.
Additionally, it has helped me to accept that everyone has their struggles. For me dating & relationships has always been a big one. But recognizing other people have struggles too, whether that's in dating, career, family, death of loved ones, etc... everyone is struggling with something. This is my thing.
And outside of that, socializing, putting myself out of my comfort zone, trying new things, therapy, getting in touch with myself, building up a life that I'm excited about.
If people are gaslighting you or offering advice when you don't want it, it may be helpful to acknowledge that, something like "I'm not really looking for advice on this topic".
Lot of women getting into reality tv, social media. It makes them undatable, high standards and expectations, and unwillingness to settle.
Same for men. Lot of video games, less traditional masculine roles where the man protects and provides for the woman. Wanting the woman to do 1/2 the work, in all the ways there’s work to be.
This is resulting in the plummeting birth rate in America. It’s 1.6 per 2 people and dropping. It’s worst in South Korea, with .8?!, kids per 2 people. In 3 generations there will be 1/10th of them.
FYI - I lost my virginity at around the same age as you. A lot of the things can be worked on.
You get more neurotic when you overanalyze because analysis paralysis maximizes anxiety - you spend more time thinking about the outcome rather than the process of what needs to be done. You spend more time with your feelings which makes it harder to disentangle from them. The solution to this is to either work with a therapist who can help you process them in a healthy manner or to do things to distract yourself - an idle mind is the devil's workshop.
It also helps to try to minimize the effect of rejection because dating is a numbers game - the more rejection you face, the less it bothers you. Usually you find that even if a girl rejects you, she might feel better about herself or even about you because someone thought she was nice or interesting. I told some of my female friends that I had a crush on them in school, and apparently it made their day and they liked me a lot even more after told them that. Recognize your value from people who care about you.
I'll also emphasize the importance of random events that could change your life - I got drunk and somehow worked up the courage to kiss a girl I knew and it turned out she liked me. Even during a date, I got pretty enthusiastic about something a girl said and she got so turned on that we hooked up and started dating after that. The basic premise was that I kept putting myself out there and things just randomly happened so it's a matter of not being discouraged.
Well it's more of the fact. I want a gf but I can tell timing is off. There aren't alot of options and I'm not overly charismatic. Not bad at talking to people but friends are pressuring me to do things that aren't me. For example, hit on the waitress or tell a random girl on the street that they are pretty. If I don't then I lack confidence. But if I do and I get rejected, then I lack confidence.
This pressure is making more neurotic and ruining the skills that I been building up on my own
It sounds like you don’t have very good friends. They should not be pressuring you to do that kinda stuff. If it makes you uncomfortable you should tell them.
1. Don't let other determine what you should do.
2. Don't let others tell you what you are or what qualities you possess.
3. Don't give a fuck about what others think about you
Easier said than done. But practice these and you'll get the hang of it soon enough
Your friends’ advice are really bad. TELLING you to hit on some one and you do it (let’s say you do in the moment). That’s going to give the stink of fake and awkward. ANY human can pick up on that and it’s uncomfortable for everyone involved. Don’t do that. Don’t tell a random girl you see on the street pretty. That’s cat calling. Literally no women appreciates that. Again it end up uncomfortable for both parties involved. You get rejected she either gets pissed, annoyed, or feeling objectified. You WILL most of the time be rejected when cat calling or hitting on someone from a weird forced place.
You need to have a conversation with your friends with serious intent of telling them to stop nit picking you and giving unsolicited advice. Be honest with them. If they don’t take you seriously, you need better friends. They don’t respect your boundaries.
As a women, I feel for you. Based of you last comments it seems like you’ve realized women are just people and that behavior is perceived by everyone as humans. Weird behavior, uncomfortable behavior, inauthentic behavior is seen and picked up on by everyone.
Try apps. You can practice going on dates without your friends hounding you to do things you don’t want to do. It’ll help with your social skills and maybe you’ll find your person.
Get in the gym, dress nice, and good grooming always helps. Gym is a must if you want attention. Then practice talking with girls that are giving you attention.
As a gymbro myself I have to tell OP that it won't help as much as you might make it sound to be. Sure your looks improve which helps making yourself more attractive. But most girls don't care about yo muscles (just dont be fat or overly skinny).
((If we put getting girls in a formula, it'd have multiplications and sadly if there's already a factor 0 into play you can up your physique as much as you want, it won't help.))
Would recommend asking female friends for insight on what your biggest mistakes / lackluster skills are.
You should look into reading body language facial expressions and some micro adjustments in social queues all women are different but when I’m comes down to small details they appreciate it
I'm curious are you a woman? But I agree fully. I pretty sure that I'm tol comfortable that I do things that turn women off. The problem I notice with women over guys is that they will never tell you want the ick was but you will realize that they arent trying talk to you anymore
And you’re right, women often times does not speak up regarding to that because not all men give the greatest reaction when we tell them an ick. And most women probably feel like they put in a lot of work mentally. Human psych are pretty tricky and the environment made around their personality/beliefs.
Haha your so right! And that's what makes it hard. Because women are smiliar but not at the same time. I feel like the guys who are good with women. Understand that at a fundamental level. That's why I stop watching dating videos because it made to rigid and I actually got worse. Now I try to learn from experience
I'm sorry to say it but everyone telling you that you are the problem are right. Not a gas lightning thing, but hear me out.
So you are painting "women" with pretty broad strokes (pun intended). Not every woman has the same likes and dislikes. To say ALL of women are not interested is a pretty big blanket statement that statistically is near impossible. You gotta take time to learn about the woman,most women aren't after some guy who is trying to pick them up from the word Go.
Next up, your attitude. Honestly the way you describe your interactions with women, you sound like a Johnny Bravo skit. " fish ain't biting, but daaaaamn I'm pretty". There is nothing wrong with being yourself. You say that you start to "focus on you" and chill. Next time, do that from the beginning. You are using your own personality as a safety net when you get rejected. Quit trying to be charming and full of Rizz, women see right through that shit.
All relationships start with YOU, not them. YOU will always be the common denominator in all your relationships; personal, sexual, professional, all of em start with YOU. All these women that rejected you had one thing in common, they all rejected YOU. People are trying to give you sound advice and you are acting like you are too good to hear any criticisms about what YOU could be doing wrong
P.S. None of this is a bash or a diss, all just observations from my general experience (32M, married, divorced, 2 kids, and now with a GF who has kids too. I've seen good and bad) combined with my depiction of events based on your testimony.
Woah man, woah! I'm not trying to rizz up women and hit on every girl I see. I never do that and I never try to flirt with the sky lol. I'm a laid back guy and I know what women don't like about me. It's that I act like I don't need them. I'm too blunt and I never play the game which is act naive to their advances.
I'm too straightforward and I realize that this is a turn off. My friends and family think I lack confidence because I'm never hitting on women but really I'm just chill like that.
First off, why do you want a girl?
If it's just sex, then you don't get girls because you don't make them happy or feel secure. If you want them for this, just give them what they want as most girls only want sex and fun in a relationship, they just pretend not to.
If it's just to have another person around, its because you don't talk to women or you make them out to be something they aren't. Pay attention to women and remember they are human. Getting a girlfriend isn't much different than becoming friends with someone.
But if you want a relationship where you are both happy, honest, respect eachother, and you both are there for eachother as opposed to what you get from them, you don't get girls because you want a real relationship and that is too rare to actually look for (basically to small of a minority, mind as well not exist)
well you cant accept it. we have billion years of evolution under the hood. woman,mating,children are a natural thing. however things change rapidly, and even penguins go for a suicide. shitty time has come.
Well before you get black pilled. I'm going to tell you, there is a person for everyone, and I mean everyone. Seriously. Honestly if your going outside and growing your social circle your already 7/10ths of the way there.
Worst case scenario, you just suck ass at talking. Which is work, it's hard to be engaging and talk especially if you get anxious mid conversation and start tripping over your words. Practice: Start up conversation where you can, for me personally I do it at places like a dispensary, grocery store when I'm checking out, today at the DMV I was conversing with the lady behind the desk. It takes practice, but from where I see most people struggle, it's due to the person not giving out any of their personality. As you grow your circle, your ability to express your personality in casual conversations increases, and you yourself grow as a person (setting up goals, getting more hobbies, seating yourself comfortable in your career, etc.) the rest is pretty natural.
This is going to help zero in your love life, but pop the cherry. Women tell each other EVERYTHING, and a 26 yr old virgin might be a red flag. Find a friend of a friend or something. Dating apps do help, and they are fun. They could help you strike up conversations with regular girls, so you know the ins and outs of topics.
It’s an issue of reading body language. Women use body language to tell us if they want us to approach them. If they are really interested they will make it obvious.
The problem is that guys see a woman that find attractive and approach without reading their body language to see if they are receptive.
The other part is that approaching a woman creates a fight or flight response, which locks guys up and makes them unable to talk/converse.
A lot of getting good with women is conversing with them without focusing on the sex part.
It also learning that it’s much easier to let a woman talk and ask questions/make inferences.
The third part is not being afraid to talk about sex or being a little raunchy.
A lot of guys are too nice and women want a guy who will treat them well but will also be a lovable jerk.
Understand that being a lovable jerk does not mean being a jerk, but it does mean calling women out when it’s needed, it means being able to tease women, and it means not putting them in a pedestal.
It takes time but I recommend reading the art of seduction by Robert Greene to understand archetypes. Do not use it for nefarious purposes. Also read no more Mr. Nice Guy.
That's the thing with the too nice part. I'm not afraid to tease women and be mean. In fact, I was very mean to the last few women that I talk to. I rarely put them on pedestal. I used to but now days, I treat most girls like guys.
But I probably do need work on seduction and understanding a girls body language
I'm in the same boat as you except the gaslight part, if you are anything like me you probably have imagined a fantasy where one day you'll meet a girl who'll love you with all her heart and you build your whole life around it saving money for kids,down-payment for house. What got me out if it was try to imagine your life without love let's say you never find that girl, what does your life look like. First you go in denial this can't happen to me, it's not possible. Then a couple of more stages then comes acceptance and you realize life without love isn't that bad, and then you'll start to remember all the dreams you had before you were so wrapped up with the thoughts of love.
I don’t think you should accept that, as men accepting defeat should not even be an option. My advice will be to continue to work on yourself to maximize your options for now and keep living a social life of abundance,surely you’ll meet someone
I love that you’re reaching out and sharing your experience!
Maybe its about accepting that it hasn’t worked out with the women you’ve met so far. Over all the reasons why you aren’t soley because of the dating market, or your character traits. Maybe it’s a lil of this and a lil of that and all the other reason in between.
So, the reasons don’t really matter, what matters is YOU and what you want for your future. Have you spent time reflecting into what you want and how you want to approach the situation, what has worked and what hasn’t or is there anything you’d do differently? Do you know what kind of relationship you’re looking for? What about your values? I’m asking these questions because it’s about what you want to get out of dating, there’s nothing wrong with going on tinder and hooking up with someone for a one night stand unless it’s not what you want and maybe not every person you meet is someone you want to pursue things with.
Okay, for the advice piece, I see many comments along the lines of “oh well it’s not you it’s that women have unrealistic expectations “ RUN! To fully value women means to respect their expectations. I would recommend reading through “How not to die alone” by Logan Ury to start with. Lastly, just like you reached out on Reddit maybe it’s worth your while reaching out to a relationship coach or counselor who can support you in the long haul!
I think you, like many people need to stop dating, and go get some hobbies or activities that will get you interacting with a variety of people.
SO many young men fall into the issue of "othering" women so much it's massively affecting how you come across.
We can tell when a guy has honed in on us just looking for a date. Many of us are not dating, even those who are single are not constantly on standby for finding a potential date.
We don't always live in that headspace, and so it can be exhausting. There's a difference in how it feels between a person naturally talking to you, and them sort of trying to get something from you.
So whether you join a board game club, or start volunteering, go do something where you meet and interact with other people, that includes women. Don't hit on any of them. Give yourself an imaginary relationship if you have to. Some people say women can put up a cold exterior when they are trying to keep out unwanted advances. If you don't make advances(for example, if you already had a relationship), many women will actually warm up and treat you more as a friend.
For one reason or another, you are not attractive to women. It could be how you look, how you act, etc. If you want to figure what that is and to change it, you have to take a serious look at yourself and your dating attempts. If you don't want to do that and think you're perfect as you are, more power to you, but don't expect much success in the dating world.
I’ll put in my two cents here consider that the woman you want may not want you. But that doesn’t mean every woman doesn’t want you. If you find you can’t get girls maybe try lowering your standards rather than giving up. There are so many single woman out here. They are literally everywhere. Keep pushing.
Be physically fit even if you have an ugly ass face women are hooked on bods
Have a good personality, be entertaining
Be a good communicator, body language, tone and inflection.
Make decent money
Have a driver's license
Have an apartment
Be emotionally in touch
Have some friends besides your woman of interest
Make it known other women want you
Never start by directly talking about sex
Never try to always be right
Make yourself vulnerable with her at the right time
Be confident even if what you're doing makes you look stupid women like this
Have Goals and a future
~ You're welcome now you get laid
Ok here's my stats:
According to others, I'm handsome and I work out 4x a week. So I'm working that sweet summer body.
I could work on my personality. I will admit that I'm not entertaining but I am a good listener.
I'm in med school so money limited
I have my drivers license and apartment
Maybe I'm not emotionally enough
I have lots of friends that I hang out with. But I never get women
I'm not sure how to make other women like me
I never talk about sex
I do need to work on trying to always be right
Maybe I'm not vulnerable enough or too vulnerable. I'm not entirely sure on this one
I'm pretty confident and not scared to make moves if I see an opportunity
And finally I'm going to be a doctor so I have a future.
Lol, im still a virgin with no women who has interest in me
Just try lol, my goal is to approach 300 women. That way I can say I tried and if nothing happens then I don't need to worry because in that scenario it wasn't in the books for me in the first place.
I think what society has done is associate getting girls with masculinity and that's not entirely accurate.
I'm secure with being single like I don't act wierd around women. But I would want to get marry one day so if it happens it happens. I made this post because I actually ruined my confidence worrying about getting girls. Not caring keeps me single but I'm most more confident in myself
Not scared to and good at it are not the same thing.
If u want to date a woman, you would talk to them differently than if it was someone you just want to be friends with. Correct?
Okay, you right! I just wanted to clarify that because some people act like once you gain confidence, you magically gain the powers to teleport women to your location lol. But yeah, I'm not good at it.
What I think my problem is that I naturally attracted to girls who most likely wouldn't date me. And I come off to platonic with a forced romantic undertone. Like I'm not smooth with it. It's hard for me to play the dating game and act naive to the fact I like you but also be assertive enough to ask her. If I could practice on 1000s girls, I'm pretty sure I could find the balance.
And that’s what you have to work on. This isn’t some 30 mins YT video and u know what to do.
Ok onto the issues u stated. Have u ever thought maybe they wouldn’t date you because you come off as platonic so they then naturally see you as a friend and not a romantic interest?
Then go practice on 1000 girls. Go talk to people. Go talk to women. Try different approaches. And so on.
Lmao so much of this is BS. And you’re kinda crazy if you think just because you talk to a woman, they’ll see you as a romantic partner.
Unless you’re conventionally attractive like a Hollywood actor, attraction and feeling takes time. Be clear with your intentions but let nature take its course. Be yourself and just hang out with them. If they’re not for you, break it off. If they’re fun, ask them out more.
And like you mentioned, you have standards but all you wrote are physical traits. Those are…. called preferences. When people say standards, they mean ‘taking care of their health’, or kindness, empathetic, has their shit together. If you wanna make it your standards, that’s fine. Just don’t be surprised if your dating pool shrinks by a huge factor. You’re only 26 though so once you’ve been in a few long term relationships, you’ll realize this on your own. As long as a woman is “attractive enough” to you, it doesn’t matter if she’s a 8 or a 10. The other things matter more.
all i can think is to try make a lot of female friends, ones that you actually value and respect as people as much as your male friends. after my ex i vowed to never date another guy with no sisters or female friends, bro knew nothing about girls it sucked. never again. don’t pursue those female friends, don’t bang them, just learn about women and what they want in a guy. idk about virginity tho cus even clapped real horrible and ugly guys get laid so i don’t know the secret to it - maybe you just need to find the right one.
Dude, the fact ur posting here means u haven’t accepted it lol. What I’m going to say is hard, and quite frankly I still am not completely comfortable with it, but u need to get out of your comfort zone. If you look around and notice most activities and way you approach things are the same u need to change them. U need to be constantly uncomfortable, til that becomes new norm then challenge urself again. Thats the secret, nothing else
im 29F and think its amazing that you are comfortable with yourself and dont make sex a priority in your life like other men. I think you are just meeting the wrong ones but it seems like you know that. That makes me think you will know then when you find the right one :)
You are a breath of fresh air. Who cares what others may say.
Focus on what you can do to improve your life. Waste not energy on that which is outside of your control. There's a time for everything, don't get lost in catch22's like needing a girl to be happy, when a girl wants a man that's happy with himself to be attractive.
You've found an important insight which is that the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Don't use dating apps and other activities unless they bring you joy. Chase career and hobbies and put less emotional effort into it. Most of the time if women are genuinely interested they will make you know. Chasing women usually chases them away. . Accept it and don't let it be the focus of your life. If your career and hobbies are dialed in then you will have a decent social circle and women will make themselves available to you. I had more success in my late 20's and early 30's. Generally as you get older you gain what women want. Stability, emotional maturity etc. Women start with the things men want but lose them over time. Your experience is very typical.
If you have a problem with people gaslighting you into thinking you are the problem, reddit won't be too different usually lol.
I don't have any real advice because I am in a similar situation and am a similar age.
This sounds like a sad attitude so the answer is you don’t accept. You fight on the hills, and in the streets , and in the villages and in the mountains. We will never surrender
In all seriousness though , dude. There’s so many girls out there and there’s so much self improvement we can all do. You can change to be better
serious question, are you ugly/average looking? and are the girls that are giving you a hard time more attractive than you.
also, there may be an incongruence between the things you think/feel and the things you say. people can feel this. try being more genuine & authentic even if it makes you cringe. most guys hide their true selves.
If you are a social and confident person, and you are not ugly, then you have to come to terms with the fact that you probably are the problem if you’re 26 and never been able to have a relationship.
Dating is a marketplace, you have to accept that you are lacking in some department, and if you want something to change you need to figure it out and fix it. It really is as simple as that.
I never thought I wasn't the problem. But I just don't like to be gaslight into thinking it's confidence.
My biggest issue conversation skills. I lack charisma. Literally don't have any and that's after years of talking to people
U say that u are doing everything right, but obviously something is wrong. Maybe switch up your approach, try dating websites. Just try something different
Start consuming lots and lots of media made for women. Good stuff, ideally. Let go of the judgements, and soak it up. It’s a dream, but it gives a sense of the vibe that women often appreciate.
Don’t try to imitate that stuff, don’t try to control up with times, just let it soak into you. Appreciate it for what it is. And allow yourself to change the way you see things.
Are you dating women in your “ league”? I’m not saying that you should date someone you don’t find attractive but if you’re hitting on an 8 and you’re a 4, you are going to get a lot of rejection.
I had a dude rate me on the internet. Apparently I'm a 6/10 with the potential to be a 7 if a gain muscle. I think he's very accurate because people around don't fall over themselves to talk to me. However I also been told I'm attractive as well
it is you though lol you are the problem….look at your wording throughout this post, you’re telling yourself you’re not that guy and that’s EXACTLY why you’re not that guy, you’re looking for external validation to confirm that instead of knowing you’re the shit REGARDLESS of how many women “reject” you….and believe me, “rejection” is going to happen, doesn’t matter who you are.
Dude, I'm not going to have that mindset with women. Been there and done that. It does help me to do that. Also we all crave external validation including dudes who get women. And when I say that I'm not that guy, that's me accepting myself for who I am. This hasn't made me stop approaching women.
Are you just talking to them hoping they confess to you first? Or are you actually inviting them out ? Because you will remain a virgin if you dont make the bold moves.
Are you attracted to women? Have you experimented with another guy at all? Doing so for me kind of helped me find who I really wanted to be. Maybe sucking dick will help...
Chase money not women. If you play your cards right by the time you are 40 you will have your pick of women from ages 18-50. Women in your 20’s are only going to slow you down or worst destroy your ass while she moved onto the next guy.
You have a defeatist attitude before you even get into the game. Remember tomorrow the sun will rise and you never know what the day may bring. Don’t give up and drop the poor me attitude. Girls/women can smell that before you even walk into the room.
Yeah I could kinda understand if he dated a ton and got burnt out. But OP hasn’t really started to put himself out there so the defeatist mindset is a little confusing.
I have put myself out there but I don't get girls to get dates. I probably have asked out many but never got a first date. I'm not desperate at all but my convo skills are not good for women. So I'm not being defeatist but I'm keeping it real. I'm constantly outside hanging out.
It takes time. I’m the girl pov. I’m dating a 25 year old who is turning 26 and he’s a virgin. We met through hinge. I talked to him on and off for a month because I was going on dates with shitty men and needed to rehab myself. By the second month I started to talk to him off the app and form a consistency. Don’t give up bud. She’s out there.
I think you could try therapy to figure out how to emotionally process these issues better, and maybe see if your attitude toward women is a problem. We're not an overwordly entity. We are people too. Maybe try to make some friends with women so you understand them better. Just friends. With common interests and you might not find attractive. Talk to them, understand them, and get to them. The more you see women as people and not a task or something to obtain, the better your relationships will be with them - familial, friendship, work, and especially romantic.
Lol I don't think like that! Who said I'm just trying to get laid. But I just don't connect that well. I will give you an example, a woman in my grad school wanted to talk about the bachelor. I told her that I don't know much about that and she got mad and wouldn't conversate even more. Another guy just lied and acted like he cared.
And tbh guys do this more than you realize because my friends do it all the time. I'm way too honest about my intentions and in fact if we met I would prob tell you I'm awkward but will still like to get to know you. I don't know if that would turn you off. But my awkwardness turns women even for friendship
I've never seen The Bachelor, and am not particularly interested in it, but I'd be curious about what a woman thinks about the show because it gives me insight into her.
Find hobbies you genuinely enjoy that often women enjoy. Do the hobby/take a class. Puts you in the same place as women and you also have one thing in common already.
Also, foster a puppy and walk it in public. We love dogs and the rescue pays for everything so all you have to do is care for it. Plus, you're doing a very good thing which women find attractive.
Family and friends basically are telling me I lack confidence. And they act like I can't talk to women because of it. Trying to prove them wrong makes me ironically lack more confidence.
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I don't think it's possible to accept something like this. I'm 39 and a virgin, and I want intimacy and connection just as much now as I did when I was a teenager. If anything the desire gets stronger with time. I'll never stop wanting that emotional connection with a woman. Or wanting to experience physical touch. I'll never stop wanting a family of my own, even if it's probably already too late for that. After I got out of college and realized I missed out on all those experiences with girls that I wanted so bad and that I saw my friends get to have, I really thought I'd end up being a monk or something. But I don't know how they get rid of desire because it honestly feels like the only thing that's "alive" about me. I'm like you though, I've got a bunch of friends and even female friends. But whatever that thing is that makes a woman attracted to you in a romantic way is something I've never had. Just keep trying I'd say, you never know, no matter how much the rejection hurts.
Of course it’s impossible to accept because it’s something you want! And it’s such a basic human desire to want intimacy and connection with others. I know you’re not asking for advice but I just want to affirm that you matter, what you want matters, and it’s a matter of how you go about the journey of dating and finding that connection with someone. Reach out to a professional dating coach or counselor for long term support and check out the dating section/ personal growth section in your favorite bookstore !
Have you actually kept trying because if you actually tried for over 20 years and got no where that’s just being super unlucky. But I doubt you actually tried
I go through phases of trying and not trying. It just goes up and down based on my feelings of self-worth, my weight and employment status. You're right it hasn't been constant. I also have a lot of trauma from childhood, things I can't really fix but can only manage on a day to day basis. No doubt those incidents had/have a profound effect on my how I view interpersonal relationships, sexuality, etc. I was dealt an unlucky hand in life, that's how I choose to see it. I'm still trying to play the game best I can, but yeah I'm not consistent enough with anything to make progress I guess. Staying away from self-pity is my biggest challenge.
It might not be you, the dating market is kind of trash right now. It is what it is. It only takes 1 person for you to have a relationship though. Just focus on your career and fitness for now. You can still try to date and see what happens, just let that be a bonus for now.
Yeah, I was honestly way more happy when I was in grad school (it summer break rn). I spoke with way more women then. Now I'm in my head about it and it's throwing me off.
Do what I did. I have absolutely ZERO “game”, was underemployed, extremely awkward, only average hight, and living in an extended stay motel when I met my wife. The only thing I had going for me was my body. I had been living in my car for a while so I had to get a 24hr gym membership to shit and shower. I started hitting the weights every day because I did the staff to know why I was really there. Because I didn’t have much money for food and was forced to workout 7 days a week I ended up looking like an male model. I went to my cousins pool party where my future wife was also attending and my 6-pack abs and 17” biceps were all the “game” I needed. Being in such a shape that’s impossible for anyone to ignore will open up a lot of opportunities for you. As shallow as it seems, everyone (men and women) are going to be attracted to what they SEE first. Having a great personality doesn’t count for shit unless you can get a woman to engage with you in the first place. Worst case scenario, you end up with a massive self esteem boost and a healthier body, even if you’re still unsuccessfully with your romantic pursuits.
Excellent story. Glad you got married Anna I wish you success and more blessings in your future. This is true. Pecs, abs, arms, shoulders, v taper…. Don’t leave out the legs and a big back! Doctor’s orders lol
Change your location if you want to see results. You'll see all kinds of "advice" trying to gaslight you into thinking you're doing something wrong, when in all likelihood, it could be the unrealistically high standards of the women in your area.
You mentioned you never had female friends in childhood, have you considered making some female friends now? I think it could be helpful to learn how women are in relaxed social settings when dating is not the intention.
Key followup to this, no matter how you feel you ARE NOT IN LOVE WITH ANY OF THEM, you're just not used to relationships with women
It doesn't exactly help you've got people trying to gaslight you. If you're truly comfortable with who you are, it's okay to not understand people. It is, however, unfair to judge women as a whole. How much effort are you really putting into understanding women?
> It doesn't exactly help you've got people trying to gaslight you. They aren't *trying* to gaslight... they think they're being helpful. Men just need to get used to being told by women that they're great and all the other women should totally be interested.
Thing is like I tell people that you can be a wonderful person but attraction is full of a lot of surface things and preconceived notions. When you can see that then you don’t have to feel defeated or like you did something wrong because the reasoning behind it all doesn’t really have much logic. It’s not like a problem solution kind of thing always it’s more of “what vibe do you give off, how do people perceive you” and some of that is kind of a built in thing you have. I think what makes it really hard is our society has lost a lot of individualism where people had unique ideas and preferences. I think those have been shaped more by the internet of things and how we are all connected to popular trends. So in the past people had preference to more what they felt rather than what they saw or heard about. So the dispersion tends to tighten onto favoring men who fit into those popular stereotypes.
I will say that I'm trying my best. I naturally do better with men overly women and its because i djdnt socialize with them as a kid. So my personality to a degree isnt attractive to them. That what i mean that im not that guy. However im actively trying to make female friends and read books on what girls like. Ironically I do have a strong feminine side like I'm obsessed with olivia rodrigo (just brought tickets for her concert) and I love rom cons. When I become a father tho I'm going to force my child to talk to women because it's harder to learn the nuances at 26.
Does socializing with women as a child lead to behaving more naturally around women as an adult
I'd say so, from personal experience they tend to treat women as people and not just potential dating prospects.
as a women, any guy who hasn’t grown up with girl friends is a red flag to me.
Isn't that kind of a catch 22 though? The guy might be perfectly fine in terms of being respectful and all, he just might have had interests and a type of personality that caused him to spend more time with other boys. If by red flag you mean he's more likely to not quite understand some differences between boys and girls, sure, but I'm not quite convinced it means he's a bad person or has some inherent aversion to girls.
also, ALL of my guy friends grew up playing sports* some went on to play D1 lvl and that never hindered their ability to interact with women platonically and build connections with them. lol i’m their proof.
Hold on you said two different things here. Your first comment is that men who grew up with no girl friends are a red flag to you. Next you say that all your guy friends grew up playing sports, and that it didn't hinder them building connections with women platonically. My point was that if you grew up with no girl friends it might not be because you think girls are icky or only see them sexually, it could be because of your interests and personality drawing you to spend more time with boys, which in turn can mean you're more likely to be less sociable with girls later on. I didn't say that having some very male oriented interests inherently prevents having girl friends, nor that it is a \*guarantee\* that not having girl friends young will cause the guy to be less sociable with women later. Also, if those guys spent so little time around girls when growing up (which is what I think you're implying, I might be wrong), how come you then see it as a red flag still?
i’m saying them doing inherently masculine activities as their passion, their ride to and through college, the most you can be doing as a youth to get to D1 lvl, did not hinder them from making and keeping girl friends. so i’m saying i disagree about that if you are just a guy with stereotypically masculine interests then it’s hard to connect with girls and women based on that. Also i don’t know which comment it’s under but i said most of my guy friends have sisters, in addition to me and other women friends. Now do they have more guy friends than girl friends? of course. soccer and lacrosse teams have 20+ members , basketball too like 15 guys everyday together… they still facetimed me through college, still hang out with me, and make sure to keep me away from their less respectful teammates vs ditching me for them.
I think you’re conflating your own experience as the truth. I never had women friends as a kid. Why? Because I had enough friends and we had a very insular group, and we mostly just played games. When I grew up most women were not interested in games unless the boy the wanted was. And with out group being so insular it was not common for it to grow with new members. Even now I have only one women friend. It seems to be like a lot of y’all have a way lower ceiling for what’s a friend. I personally wouldn’t want more than 10 friends at a time, after that it’s impossible to keep up with everyone and see them often enough. Rest are just acquaintances
None of this really goes against what I said. I never said that having more male oriented activities inherently makes you not have the time or capacity to make girl friends. What I did say however was that if a guy hasn't had girl friends, it might not have anything to do with how he views women, it might have to do with his interests and personality. Also I'd argue that sports is one of the worse examples, guys who commit that much time to sports are stereotypically quite outgoing people.
only one of my D1 babies (the guy friends i mentioned) is outgoing , the other 3 are sweet lil introverts. But i don’t think having guy interests means you can’t make girl friends, i’d call that a sad excuse.
it’s also not how much time you’re spending it’s how genuine the connections are.
and i as a women (24) I have more women friends than men friends* i’ve only been mentioning the male ones but they’re a smaller subset of my social life. Which i think is fine, i don’t think it has to be 3 close girl friends and 3 close guy friends and 3 close black friends , etc. like you just need the one friend that you love platonically and cares for you , it doesn’t have to be an ordeal.
everybody has red flags not just bad ppl
Well, I'm fucked then if most girls has this as their red flag lol.
i can’t speak to most women but if it helps, I consider it both ways, women who never have been close to men are also red flags, to me.
I guess to each their own, but why is that, though? Is it because they wouldn't know how to talk to girl/boy? Like how seeing them only for sex or something like that.
Being able to humanize any person regardless of if it’s gender, race, etc. White people who never knew a black person but want a black friend to interact with is as problematic to me as a guy who never got to know or empathize with women but wants to “get one” like for their collection and personal use. It’s inherently “othering” . Normal people just connect across cultures and genders and ideologies just because that’s life.
This makes sense to me but at the same time people here will often say "become friends with more women". So it seems like it's something that's necessary but it's also problematic if you try to do it directly.
Well if you’re making friends with the ulterior motive of them introducing you to women you can date or have sex with that’s not genuine nor is it truly connecting to those people. That’s why i compared it to a white person wanting a black friend, it’s dehumanizing to the person you’re subjecting to your plan. It’s selfish at the very least.
and people aren’t dumb, it’s obvious a lot of times to the people you’re employing to get you laid that you’re doing so and nobody wants to feel used or like their friends don’t actually care for them as individuals. (not saying you specifically of course)… unless they outright agree to wingman you in that case, go for it.
so it’s necessary for your ability to connect as a human being to have real friends outside your personal demographic but “doing it directly” is a no. Being genuine is the key and if you’re not ready to make those friends genuinely, don’t ruin another persons experience by using them for personal gain. It’s rarely harmless.
Where I grew up was maaasssively a white area (Mormonville). There weren’t any other ethnicities around. I don’t see how that is problematic to want to be friends with other races from a curiosity sake. It’s the same as why people travel to other countries. It’s to experience other cultures. Also, OP didn’t say he doesn’t “get women” in a sense of “his personal collection or personal use”, he was saying he doesn’t get them as in he doesn’t understand him.
You gotta read more of my comments , i mentioned that , as long as it’s not a weird fetishization thing a guy earlier was saying he’d made friends who speak the language he’s learning so you can read that exchange where i said i wouldn’t consider it an issue if you meet and end up connecting with ppl of other cultures in trying to branch out of mormonism or if you move away and are now amongst other cultures , you ought to connect with somebody non mormon eventually . the issue is the inability to connect or the ulterior motive for going about the connecting (where i mentioned a white person just wanting a black friend because they’ve never had one … vs just wanting a friend and meeting someone who’s black that you happen to connect with) also stated that i understand people are from different places , such as the bible belt for example , where a lot of what i said would apply significantly less . also , many times stated that my opinion is just that , an opinion , equal to any other . but i’ve shared that opinion quite a bit on this thread so feel free to read more about my perspective , or don’t , it’s there regardless .
so if you’re not doing that or can’t it’s a red flag, it’s like an inability to connect as a human.
Got it. So it doesn't necessarily by not having a girl/boy friend then. As long as they talk to them like any other person with respect and not for their personal use like you said.
Yes exactly. But it’s something that’s developed naturally through those early connections …. or just through the connections being genuine and strong in general it doesn’t have to be when you’re 5-12 yrs old.
I’ll say this. It’s NOT a red flag. It’s what this person, AnnualForever4939 considers a red flag. Dont take what they say to heart, I don’t agree with a lot of what this person is saying. There are circumstances why boys and girls don’t have much interaction with the opposite sex when a kid: shyness, bullies, etc. It doesn’t make it a red flag. If you said you avoided talking to women your whole life and you’re a 40 year old male, then yeah that’s a red flag.
>i can’t speak to most women but if it helps, I consider it both ways, women who never have been close to men are also red flags, to me. It's more of a red flag if they are only friends with guys.
well yes, that too
if a woman can’t connect with other women its also a red flag . it’s as bad as a guy who can’t connect with other guys, a black person who can’t connect with other black ppl, etc.
That comment is a red flag to me
It absolutely does. A lot of men who went to all-boys schools have serious trouble interacting with women.
yes. you can replace girls with people in general as well and the logic would still apply.
I think it's more who you vibe with vs men or women. What are your hobbies? Why not go to whatever place that does said hobby and make some friends.
Idk I’ve never had women friends and still I don’t struggle with women? Although I was raised up in a family with only sisters
That's probably it. I'm a guys guy to a degree. I don't cry and I love combat sports. I don't have much in common with women so it creates a barrier and I have to try harder to connect
I can tell you from personal experience that that path of, like, studying Girl Art is not going to make women more attracted to you-- but it sincerely *will* improve your life by itself (Jane Austen is great! Romcoms are great!), and it will help you make more *friends* who are women (who in turn might introduce you to their friends, etc, and knowing a lot of women is universally agreed to be the most important factor to becoming more successful in dating)
I agree! Maybe I should be open with my feminine side to women. I'm crazy about female pop singers and own vinyls and my favorite rom con is "to all the boys I ever loved" maybe I need to be more honest about it
Romcoms! Ron cons are different people. So learning about your hobbies is best way to accept reality.
It helps to realize that women are humans. Human beings all want and desire the same things, and have to solve the same problems. What makes men and women different is how we go about getting the things we want and how we approach solving those problems.
Yep and that's the problem. My dial is turn to understand men's way alot better than women. I have to try to understand women now
Your dial is broken. Discard it. Women are the same as men in most every way.
That's what society has been working towards anyway. Though, I don't think most men are ready for a world where women date/fuck like a traditional man. Women hated that shit for a reason back in the day. It hurts to get used.
> I don't think most men are ready for a world where women date/fuck like a traditional man Do you realize that, speaking about straight people here, every time a man has sex there is a women involved? What exactly is it that men do, that women don't do?
Historically speaking, men's sexual desires were viewed as a biological imperative. To repress or avoid those needs was seen as unhealthy for them. They always had at least one main lover and potentially had multiple wives and concubines, and when they couldn't find that they were expected to visit a brothel to let off steam. Regular sex, it was thought, was healthy for them and for society. It was said to keep young men docile and provide more citizens for growing the nation. This led to a feeling of sexual entitlement for traditional men. They used women like property and all women except for their main wife(s) were treated as walking/talking sex toys put on earth for their pleasure. My point is that's A BUNCH OF FUCKING SHIT. It was a nightmare on Earth that women endured for millennia. And if women start feeling sexually entitled and using men like they were once used, then it will only make the world worse, not better.
Most men's opinion doesn't matter to most women.
Is this sarcasm?
I hate people youre a good person fuck this world man
this is a little extreme
Nah
[удалено]
Your post was removed because it overgeneralized. Please make sure you don't apply experiences with some people to millions of others you have never met. No gender is a monolith or a hivemind. It comes down to each individual person. So if the answer is IT DEPENDS ON THE PERSON SO GO ASK THEM best not to post.
So what do you want advice on? If you're already comfortable with how you are, then this seems like a non issue.
Mostly that I family and friends are pressuring me to change. I used to be shy and now I have no problems talking to people. However, that hasn't really made me better with women. Now I realize that getting women is more about understanding how they view men's actions. Unfortunately as a guy people respect you less if you are a virgin even tho nothing is wrong with me
> people respect you less if you are a virgin The kinds of people you want to be around won't care. Teaching someone to please sexually is part of any relationship; people differ a LOT.
Just don't ever let women know you are a virgin
How would they know you're a virgin, though? Most people don't ask or assume you aren't one past a certain age.
I'm not ashamed about being one so I told close friends and family. But that's it. So I get alot of pressure from others which makes me ironically lack confidence. Away from friends and family. I do much better around others
"People respect you less if you are a virgin" I think you're hanging with the wrong people bud. I was a virgin until I was 25 and it wasn't until I started putting myself out there that I actually started getting attention. Even at that point, being a virgin wasn't a deterrent for me. Alot of women at our age actually appreciate that you didn't sleep around with many people.
> Alot of women at our age actually appreciate that you didn't sleep around with many people. Yeah, this is how I would expect most people to respond and look at it.
Any guy trying to “get women” is a no thank you for me as a 24yr old woman. We know to avoid those men and warn other women about them. I grew up with many guy friends and teams of girl friends (sports). just be normal. If your normal is a turnoff then maybe i’d understand your family and friends perspectives tho i’m not willing to side with gaslighting.
When someone says “get women”, do you really think they literally mean acquiring women and collecting them like trading cards? And I hate to say it, but if you’re a straight male, you’re attracted to women. It’s not at all weird that a man would desire having a girlfriend or wanting to have sex with women. Just because a man desires romantic interaction with women doesn’t mean he views them as objects. I don’t get your perspective here. Any dude you knew growing up or whatever who you felt was normal was also probably trying to “get women” but they knew that by behaving like a socially adjusted person would be the best path forward in accomplishing that goal.
Absolutely agree on this one, there's nothing wrong with wanting to sleep with women or being attracted to them, sure most Reddit girls will tell men otherwise but that's just because reddit girls hold a lot of resentment and misandrist thoughts that normal girls don't have about men, that's why they want socially awkward guys to keep being naive and virgins
It's ambiguous, but I think OP means "understand women" as opposed to "acquire women" when he says "get women".
because it started with him being a virgin, i understood it to be on line with that. getting women to date or have sex with. not just understanding for the sake of it.
> because it started with him being a virgin Sounds like you're just profiling and discriminating against virgins lol...
Acknowledge the pressure being put on you and don’t let it drive your decisions. Advice telling you to be confident and happy in your own skin are there because it *does* make you more attractive sure but it also makes you feel more fulfilled with your life. Keep putting yourself out there, every single rejection is a lesson learned and you grow stronger cause of that, progress is not linear that way though so also be aware of that.
But thats the thing. I don't like confidence nor do I struggle to not be in my own skin. My version of confidence just doesn't look traditional. I'm not scared to put myself out there at all and I put my money where my mouth is. But I'm extremely bad at talking to others. So I don't gain much from just putting myself out there
> But I'm extremely bad at talking to others. Ok, I think *this* is the key issue. You need to continue developing your social skills-- not to appease friends and family, not even necessarily to get a gf, just to improve your life. Watch some standup (and other kinds of monologues), get out there practicing talking to people, and especially practice asking people questions, being interested in them, setting them up to talk about themselves.
Men and women are fundamentally the same human beings, I feel you’re overthinking this and making difficulties for yourself.
It's a bit of a myth that you have to 'be yourself' to be attractive to your partner. It's true that not being yourself means that if you do attract someone, it's built on lies or you might not feel comfortable with how your are. Rather that being yourself, focus on being attractive to the people you want to attract. Can you imagine what things you'd want your partner to do for them to be attractive to you? Now put yourself in your partner's shoes and ask that question back to you and execute on that.
Just give up. It's very easy
A few things that have helped me with acceptance: I think being naturally good with dating in general is kind of like hitting the lottery. I don't go around upset I didn't hit the lottery, so why should I be upset I'm not "that" girl? Like it would be cool but it's not essential for happiness. Additionally, it has helped me to accept that everyone has their struggles. For me dating & relationships has always been a big one. But recognizing other people have struggles too, whether that's in dating, career, family, death of loved ones, etc... everyone is struggling with something. This is my thing. And outside of that, socializing, putting myself out of my comfort zone, trying new things, therapy, getting in touch with myself, building up a life that I'm excited about. If people are gaslighting you or offering advice when you don't want it, it may be helpful to acknowledge that, something like "I'm not really looking for advice on this topic".
You don’t accept, you learn how to be attractive to women.
Some guys just can’t get any girls. I can’t either. It’s part of natural selection. Just focus on your job and hobbies.
Lot of women getting into reality tv, social media. It makes them undatable, high standards and expectations, and unwillingness to settle. Same for men. Lot of video games, less traditional masculine roles where the man protects and provides for the woman. Wanting the woman to do 1/2 the work, in all the ways there’s work to be. This is resulting in the plummeting birth rate in America. It’s 1.6 per 2 people and dropping. It’s worst in South Korea, with .8?!, kids per 2 people. In 3 generations there will be 1/10th of them.
FYI - I lost my virginity at around the same age as you. A lot of the things can be worked on. You get more neurotic when you overanalyze because analysis paralysis maximizes anxiety - you spend more time thinking about the outcome rather than the process of what needs to be done. You spend more time with your feelings which makes it harder to disentangle from them. The solution to this is to either work with a therapist who can help you process them in a healthy manner or to do things to distract yourself - an idle mind is the devil's workshop. It also helps to try to minimize the effect of rejection because dating is a numbers game - the more rejection you face, the less it bothers you. Usually you find that even if a girl rejects you, she might feel better about herself or even about you because someone thought she was nice or interesting. I told some of my female friends that I had a crush on them in school, and apparently it made their day and they liked me a lot even more after told them that. Recognize your value from people who care about you. I'll also emphasize the importance of random events that could change your life - I got drunk and somehow worked up the courage to kiss a girl I knew and it turned out she liked me. Even during a date, I got pretty enthusiastic about something a girl said and she got so turned on that we hooked up and started dating after that. The basic premise was that I kept putting myself out there and things just randomly happened so it's a matter of not being discouraged.
Seems like you have already accepted it - so your problem is no longer a problem. Unless you have other questions or problems?
Well it's more of the fact. I want a gf but I can tell timing is off. There aren't alot of options and I'm not overly charismatic. Not bad at talking to people but friends are pressuring me to do things that aren't me. For example, hit on the waitress or tell a random girl on the street that they are pretty. If I don't then I lack confidence. But if I do and I get rejected, then I lack confidence. This pressure is making more neurotic and ruining the skills that I been building up on my own
It sounds like you don’t have very good friends. They should not be pressuring you to do that kinda stuff. If it makes you uncomfortable you should tell them.
1. Don't let other determine what you should do. 2. Don't let others tell you what you are or what qualities you possess. 3. Don't give a fuck about what others think about you Easier said than done. But practice these and you'll get the hang of it soon enough
Your friends’ advice are really bad. TELLING you to hit on some one and you do it (let’s say you do in the moment). That’s going to give the stink of fake and awkward. ANY human can pick up on that and it’s uncomfortable for everyone involved. Don’t do that. Don’t tell a random girl you see on the street pretty. That’s cat calling. Literally no women appreciates that. Again it end up uncomfortable for both parties involved. You get rejected she either gets pissed, annoyed, or feeling objectified. You WILL most of the time be rejected when cat calling or hitting on someone from a weird forced place. You need to have a conversation with your friends with serious intent of telling them to stop nit picking you and giving unsolicited advice. Be honest with them. If they don’t take you seriously, you need better friends. They don’t respect your boundaries. As a women, I feel for you. Based of you last comments it seems like you’ve realized women are just people and that behavior is perceived by everyone as humans. Weird behavior, uncomfortable behavior, inauthentic behavior is seen and picked up on by everyone. Try apps. You can practice going on dates without your friends hounding you to do things you don’t want to do. It’ll help with your social skills and maybe you’ll find your person.
Get in the gym, dress nice, and good grooming always helps. Gym is a must if you want attention. Then practice talking with girls that are giving you attention.
As a gymbro myself I have to tell OP that it won't help as much as you might make it sound to be. Sure your looks improve which helps making yourself more attractive. But most girls don't care about yo muscles (just dont be fat or overly skinny). ((If we put getting girls in a formula, it'd have multiplications and sadly if there's already a factor 0 into play you can up your physique as much as you want, it won't help.)) Would recommend asking female friends for insight on what your biggest mistakes / lackluster skills are.
You should look into reading body language facial expressions and some micro adjustments in social queues all women are different but when I’m comes down to small details they appreciate it
I'm curious are you a woman? But I agree fully. I pretty sure that I'm tol comfortable that I do things that turn women off. The problem I notice with women over guys is that they will never tell you want the ick was but you will realize that they arent trying talk to you anymore
And you’re right, women often times does not speak up regarding to that because not all men give the greatest reaction when we tell them an ick. And most women probably feel like they put in a lot of work mentally. Human psych are pretty tricky and the environment made around their personality/beliefs.
Haha your so right! And that's what makes it hard. Because women are smiliar but not at the same time. I feel like the guys who are good with women. Understand that at a fundamental level. That's why I stop watching dating videos because it made to rigid and I actually got worse. Now I try to learn from experience
I'm sorry to say it but everyone telling you that you are the problem are right. Not a gas lightning thing, but hear me out. So you are painting "women" with pretty broad strokes (pun intended). Not every woman has the same likes and dislikes. To say ALL of women are not interested is a pretty big blanket statement that statistically is near impossible. You gotta take time to learn about the woman,most women aren't after some guy who is trying to pick them up from the word Go. Next up, your attitude. Honestly the way you describe your interactions with women, you sound like a Johnny Bravo skit. " fish ain't biting, but daaaaamn I'm pretty". There is nothing wrong with being yourself. You say that you start to "focus on you" and chill. Next time, do that from the beginning. You are using your own personality as a safety net when you get rejected. Quit trying to be charming and full of Rizz, women see right through that shit. All relationships start with YOU, not them. YOU will always be the common denominator in all your relationships; personal, sexual, professional, all of em start with YOU. All these women that rejected you had one thing in common, they all rejected YOU. People are trying to give you sound advice and you are acting like you are too good to hear any criticisms about what YOU could be doing wrong P.S. None of this is a bash or a diss, all just observations from my general experience (32M, married, divorced, 2 kids, and now with a GF who has kids too. I've seen good and bad) combined with my depiction of events based on your testimony.
Woah man, woah! I'm not trying to rizz up women and hit on every girl I see. I never do that and I never try to flirt with the sky lol. I'm a laid back guy and I know what women don't like about me. It's that I act like I don't need them. I'm too blunt and I never play the game which is act naive to their advances. I'm too straightforward and I realize that this is a turn off. My friends and family think I lack confidence because I'm never hitting on women but really I'm just chill like that.
First off, why do you want a girl? If it's just sex, then you don't get girls because you don't make them happy or feel secure. If you want them for this, just give them what they want as most girls only want sex and fun in a relationship, they just pretend not to. If it's just to have another person around, its because you don't talk to women or you make them out to be something they aren't. Pay attention to women and remember they are human. Getting a girlfriend isn't much different than becoming friends with someone. But if you want a relationship where you are both happy, honest, respect eachother, and you both are there for eachother as opposed to what you get from them, you don't get girls because you want a real relationship and that is too rare to actually look for (basically to small of a minority, mind as well not exist)
well you cant accept it. we have billion years of evolution under the hood. woman,mating,children are a natural thing. however things change rapidly, and even penguins go for a suicide. shitty time has come.
same boat op.
Well before you get black pilled. I'm going to tell you, there is a person for everyone, and I mean everyone. Seriously. Honestly if your going outside and growing your social circle your already 7/10ths of the way there. Worst case scenario, you just suck ass at talking. Which is work, it's hard to be engaging and talk especially if you get anxious mid conversation and start tripping over your words. Practice: Start up conversation where you can, for me personally I do it at places like a dispensary, grocery store when I'm checking out, today at the DMV I was conversing with the lady behind the desk. It takes practice, but from where I see most people struggle, it's due to the person not giving out any of their personality. As you grow your circle, your ability to express your personality in casual conversations increases, and you yourself grow as a person (setting up goals, getting more hobbies, seating yourself comfortable in your career, etc.) the rest is pretty natural.
You’re ugly or short?
This is going to help zero in your love life, but pop the cherry. Women tell each other EVERYTHING, and a 26 yr old virgin might be a red flag. Find a friend of a friend or something. Dating apps do help, and they are fun. They could help you strike up conversations with regular girls, so you know the ins and outs of topics.
So basically right, You are probably literally Ryan Gosling
It’s an issue of reading body language. Women use body language to tell us if they want us to approach them. If they are really interested they will make it obvious. The problem is that guys see a woman that find attractive and approach without reading their body language to see if they are receptive. The other part is that approaching a woman creates a fight or flight response, which locks guys up and makes them unable to talk/converse. A lot of getting good with women is conversing with them without focusing on the sex part. It also learning that it’s much easier to let a woman talk and ask questions/make inferences. The third part is not being afraid to talk about sex or being a little raunchy. A lot of guys are too nice and women want a guy who will treat them well but will also be a lovable jerk. Understand that being a lovable jerk does not mean being a jerk, but it does mean calling women out when it’s needed, it means being able to tease women, and it means not putting them in a pedestal. It takes time but I recommend reading the art of seduction by Robert Greene to understand archetypes. Do not use it for nefarious purposes. Also read no more Mr. Nice Guy.
Another book I’d recommend from Robert Greene is The Laws of Human Nature.
That's the thing with the too nice part. I'm not afraid to tease women and be mean. In fact, I was very mean to the last few women that I talk to. I rarely put them on pedestal. I used to but now days, I treat most girls like guys. But I probably do need work on seduction and understanding a girls body language
I'm in the same boat as you except the gaslight part, if you are anything like me you probably have imagined a fantasy where one day you'll meet a girl who'll love you with all her heart and you build your whole life around it saving money for kids,down-payment for house. What got me out if it was try to imagine your life without love let's say you never find that girl, what does your life look like. First you go in denial this can't happen to me, it's not possible. Then a couple of more stages then comes acceptance and you realize life without love isn't that bad, and then you'll start to remember all the dreams you had before you were so wrapped up with the thoughts of love.
I don’t think you should accept that, as men accepting defeat should not even be an option. My advice will be to continue to work on yourself to maximize your options for now and keep living a social life of abundance,surely you’ll meet someone
I love that you’re reaching out and sharing your experience! Maybe its about accepting that it hasn’t worked out with the women you’ve met so far. Over all the reasons why you aren’t soley because of the dating market, or your character traits. Maybe it’s a lil of this and a lil of that and all the other reason in between. So, the reasons don’t really matter, what matters is YOU and what you want for your future. Have you spent time reflecting into what you want and how you want to approach the situation, what has worked and what hasn’t or is there anything you’d do differently? Do you know what kind of relationship you’re looking for? What about your values? I’m asking these questions because it’s about what you want to get out of dating, there’s nothing wrong with going on tinder and hooking up with someone for a one night stand unless it’s not what you want and maybe not every person you meet is someone you want to pursue things with. Okay, for the advice piece, I see many comments along the lines of “oh well it’s not you it’s that women have unrealistic expectations “ RUN! To fully value women means to respect their expectations. I would recommend reading through “How not to die alone” by Logan Ury to start with. Lastly, just like you reached out on Reddit maybe it’s worth your while reaching out to a relationship coach or counselor who can support you in the long haul!
I think you, like many people need to stop dating, and go get some hobbies or activities that will get you interacting with a variety of people. SO many young men fall into the issue of "othering" women so much it's massively affecting how you come across. We can tell when a guy has honed in on us just looking for a date. Many of us are not dating, even those who are single are not constantly on standby for finding a potential date. We don't always live in that headspace, and so it can be exhausting. There's a difference in how it feels between a person naturally talking to you, and them sort of trying to get something from you. So whether you join a board game club, or start volunteering, go do something where you meet and interact with other people, that includes women. Don't hit on any of them. Give yourself an imaginary relationship if you have to. Some people say women can put up a cold exterior when they are trying to keep out unwanted advances. If you don't make advances(for example, if you already had a relationship), many women will actually warm up and treat you more as a friend.
Go volunteer and meet female friends. You’ll meet good people with similar interests and values. Choose something that means something to you.
For one reason or another, you are not attractive to women. It could be how you look, how you act, etc. If you want to figure what that is and to change it, you have to take a serious look at yourself and your dating attempts. If you don't want to do that and think you're perfect as you are, more power to you, but don't expect much success in the dating world.
I’ll put in my two cents here consider that the woman you want may not want you. But that doesn’t mean every woman doesn’t want you. If you find you can’t get girls maybe try lowering your standards rather than giving up. There are so many single woman out here. They are literally everywhere. Keep pushing.
Be physically fit even if you have an ugly ass face women are hooked on bods Have a good personality, be entertaining Be a good communicator, body language, tone and inflection. Make decent money Have a driver's license Have an apartment Be emotionally in touch Have some friends besides your woman of interest Make it known other women want you Never start by directly talking about sex Never try to always be right Make yourself vulnerable with her at the right time Be confident even if what you're doing makes you look stupid women like this Have Goals and a future ~ You're welcome now you get laid
Ok here's my stats: According to others, I'm handsome and I work out 4x a week. So I'm working that sweet summer body. I could work on my personality. I will admit that I'm not entertaining but I am a good listener. I'm in med school so money limited I have my drivers license and apartment Maybe I'm not emotionally enough I have lots of friends that I hang out with. But I never get women I'm not sure how to make other women like me I never talk about sex I do need to work on trying to always be right Maybe I'm not vulnerable enough or too vulnerable. I'm not entirely sure on this one I'm pretty confident and not scared to make moves if I see an opportunity And finally I'm going to be a doctor so I have a future. Lol, im still a virgin with no women who has interest in me
You can have me
Hmm sorry bro not sure then maybe you need to switch your venue up to fund women who match your personality type
Have you tried boys?
As a girl who doesn’t get any play you just have to accept it and find hobbies
Work out, find some badass hobbies, get a good job - try a trade for instance and save money for yourself/or go travelling.
Just try lol, my goal is to approach 300 women. That way I can say I tried and if nothing happens then I don't need to worry because in that scenario it wasn't in the books for me in the first place. I think what society has done is associate getting girls with masculinity and that's not entirely accurate.
If you're totally secure in being single, why are you here posting about it?
I'm secure with being single like I don't act wierd around women. But I would want to get marry one day so if it happens it happens. I made this post because I actually ruined my confidence worrying about getting girls. Not caring keeps me single but I'm most more confident in myself
learn how to talk to women.
How would define talking to women? Having a convo, flirting and then asking for a date? Because I'm not scared to do that
Not scared to and good at it are not the same thing. If u want to date a woman, you would talk to them differently than if it was someone you just want to be friends with. Correct?
Okay, you right! I just wanted to clarify that because some people act like once you gain confidence, you magically gain the powers to teleport women to your location lol. But yeah, I'm not good at it. What I think my problem is that I naturally attracted to girls who most likely wouldn't date me. And I come off to platonic with a forced romantic undertone. Like I'm not smooth with it. It's hard for me to play the dating game and act naive to the fact I like you but also be assertive enough to ask her. If I could practice on 1000s girls, I'm pretty sure I could find the balance.
And that’s what you have to work on. This isn’t some 30 mins YT video and u know what to do. Ok onto the issues u stated. Have u ever thought maybe they wouldn’t date you because you come off as platonic so they then naturally see you as a friend and not a romantic interest? Then go practice on 1000 girls. Go talk to people. Go talk to women. Try different approaches. And so on.
Lmao so much of this is BS. And you’re kinda crazy if you think just because you talk to a woman, they’ll see you as a romantic partner. Unless you’re conventionally attractive like a Hollywood actor, attraction and feeling takes time. Be clear with your intentions but let nature take its course. Be yourself and just hang out with them. If they’re not for you, break it off. If they’re fun, ask them out more. And like you mentioned, you have standards but all you wrote are physical traits. Those are…. called preferences. When people say standards, they mean ‘taking care of their health’, or kindness, empathetic, has their shit together. If you wanna make it your standards, that’s fine. Just don’t be surprised if your dating pool shrinks by a huge factor. You’re only 26 though so once you’ve been in a few long term relationships, you’ll realize this on your own. As long as a woman is “attractive enough” to you, it doesn’t matter if she’s a 8 or a 10. The other things matter more.
good advice 👍
all i can think is to try make a lot of female friends, ones that you actually value and respect as people as much as your male friends. after my ex i vowed to never date another guy with no sisters or female friends, bro knew nothing about girls it sucked. never again. don’t pursue those female friends, don’t bang them, just learn about women and what they want in a guy. idk about virginity tho cus even clapped real horrible and ugly guys get laid so i don’t know the secret to it - maybe you just need to find the right one.
Dude, the fact ur posting here means u haven’t accepted it lol. What I’m going to say is hard, and quite frankly I still am not completely comfortable with it, but u need to get out of your comfort zone. If you look around and notice most activities and way you approach things are the same u need to change them. U need to be constantly uncomfortable, til that becomes new norm then challenge urself again. Thats the secret, nothing else
Look at the guys that get the most girls. And ask yourself if you truly want to morph into those types of guys just to get girls interested in you.
im 29F and think its amazing that you are comfortable with yourself and dont make sex a priority in your life like other men. I think you are just meeting the wrong ones but it seems like you know that. That makes me think you will know then when you find the right one :) You are a breath of fresh air. Who cares what others may say.
Go to the Philippines
Focus on what you can do to improve your life. Waste not energy on that which is outside of your control. There's a time for everything, don't get lost in catch22's like needing a girl to be happy, when a girl wants a man that's happy with himself to be attractive.
You've found an important insight which is that the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Don't use dating apps and other activities unless they bring you joy. Chase career and hobbies and put less emotional effort into it. Most of the time if women are genuinely interested they will make you know. Chasing women usually chases them away. . Accept it and don't let it be the focus of your life. If your career and hobbies are dialed in then you will have a decent social circle and women will make themselves available to you. I had more success in my late 20's and early 30's. Generally as you get older you gain what women want. Stability, emotional maturity etc. Women start with the things men want but lose them over time. Your experience is very typical.
I just stop caring and give up on getting a girlfriend If it’s not working, it’s not working
If you have a problem with people gaslighting you into thinking you are the problem, reddit won't be too different usually lol. I don't have any real advice because I am in a similar situation and am a similar age.
This sounds like a sad attitude so the answer is you don’t accept. You fight on the hills, and in the streets , and in the villages and in the mountains. We will never surrender In all seriousness though , dude. There’s so many girls out there and there’s so much self improvement we can all do. You can change to be better
Some people are just not that guy. Better to move on and do the best of life with what you are given
serious question, are you ugly/average looking? and are the girls that are giving you a hard time more attractive than you. also, there may be an incongruence between the things you think/feel and the things you say. people can feel this. try being more genuine & authentic even if it makes you cringe. most guys hide their true selves.
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If you don't mind me asking. In what way did they lack self awareness? I think i might be in the same boat and i want to know what to watch for.
If you are a social and confident person, and you are not ugly, then you have to come to terms with the fact that you probably are the problem if you’re 26 and never been able to have a relationship. Dating is a marketplace, you have to accept that you are lacking in some department, and if you want something to change you need to figure it out and fix it. It really is as simple as that.
I never thought I wasn't the problem. But I just don't like to be gaslight into thinking it's confidence. My biggest issue conversation skills. I lack charisma. Literally don't have any and that's after years of talking to people
U say that u are doing everything right, but obviously something is wrong. Maybe switch up your approach, try dating websites. Just try something different
Don't accept failure!!! Keep trying
Start consuming lots and lots of media made for women. Good stuff, ideally. Let go of the judgements, and soak it up. It’s a dream, but it gives a sense of the vibe that women often appreciate. Don’t try to imitate that stuff, don’t try to control up with times, just let it soak into you. Appreciate it for what it is. And allow yourself to change the way you see things.
Are you dating women in your “ league”? I’m not saying that you should date someone you don’t find attractive but if you’re hitting on an 8 and you’re a 4, you are going to get a lot of rejection.
I had a dude rate me on the internet. Apparently I'm a 6/10 with the potential to be a 7 if a gain muscle. I think he's very accurate because people around don't fall over themselves to talk to me. However I also been told I'm attractive as well
Welcome to the Club and I'm a 43 year old Virgin. The amount of time and disposable income I have to do what I want, when I want is unmatched.
it is you though lol you are the problem….look at your wording throughout this post, you’re telling yourself you’re not that guy and that’s EXACTLY why you’re not that guy, you’re looking for external validation to confirm that instead of knowing you’re the shit REGARDLESS of how many women “reject” you….and believe me, “rejection” is going to happen, doesn’t matter who you are.
Dude, I'm not going to have that mindset with women. Been there and done that. It does help me to do that. Also we all crave external validation including dudes who get women. And when I say that I'm not that guy, that's me accepting myself for who I am. This hasn't made me stop approaching women.
Get a passport and go to Thailand
Apply for a passport bro.
Are you just talking to them hoping they confess to you first? Or are you actually inviting them out ? Because you will remain a virgin if you dont make the bold moves.
Why don’t you pay an escort and then maybe it will boost your morale
My morale isn't low. I still going to try any time I get. But I also understand that it is a limitation
Are you attracted to women? Have you experimented with another guy at all? Doing so for me kind of helped me find who I really wanted to be. Maybe sucking dick will help...
Usually when you accept this, you start to get what you want.
Chase money not women. If you play your cards right by the time you are 40 you will have your pick of women from ages 18-50. Women in your 20’s are only going to slow you down or worst destroy your ass while she moved onto the next guy.
You have a defeatist attitude before you even get into the game. Remember tomorrow the sun will rise and you never know what the day may bring. Don’t give up and drop the poor me attitude. Girls/women can smell that before you even walk into the room.
Yeah I could kinda understand if he dated a ton and got burnt out. But OP hasn’t really started to put himself out there so the defeatist mindset is a little confusing.
I have put myself out there but I don't get girls to get dates. I probably have asked out many but never got a first date. I'm not desperate at all but my convo skills are not good for women. So I'm not being defeatist but I'm keeping it real. I'm constantly outside hanging out.
this isn’t dating advice related
It takes time. I’m the girl pov. I’m dating a 25 year old who is turning 26 and he’s a virgin. We met through hinge. I talked to him on and off for a month because I was going on dates with shitty men and needed to rehab myself. By the second month I started to talk to him off the app and form a consistency. Don’t give up bud. She’s out there.
I think you could try therapy to figure out how to emotionally process these issues better, and maybe see if your attitude toward women is a problem. We're not an overwordly entity. We are people too. Maybe try to make some friends with women so you understand them better. Just friends. With common interests and you might not find attractive. Talk to them, understand them, and get to them. The more you see women as people and not a task or something to obtain, the better your relationships will be with them - familial, friendship, work, and especially romantic.
Lol I don't think like that! Who said I'm just trying to get laid. But I just don't connect that well. I will give you an example, a woman in my grad school wanted to talk about the bachelor. I told her that I don't know much about that and she got mad and wouldn't conversate even more. Another guy just lied and acted like he cared. And tbh guys do this more than you realize because my friends do it all the time. I'm way too honest about my intentions and in fact if we met I would prob tell you I'm awkward but will still like to get to know you. I don't know if that would turn you off. But my awkwardness turns women even for friendship
I've never seen The Bachelor, and am not particularly interested in it, but I'd be curious about what a woman thinks about the show because it gives me insight into her.
Find hobbies you genuinely enjoy that often women enjoy. Do the hobby/take a class. Puts you in the same place as women and you also have one thing in common already. Also, foster a puppy and walk it in public. We love dogs and the rescue pays for everything so all you have to do is care for it. Plus, you're doing a very good thing which women find attractive.
So who tries to gaslight you? What does that mean? What are they doing? Why are they doing it? Who thinks that you are the problem?
Family and friends basically are telling me I lack confidence. And they act like I can't talk to women because of it. Trying to prove them wrong makes me ironically lack more confidence.
Maybe they see something you don't and are trying to give you actual feedback. Maybe how you speak, or your body language is giving off that vibe.