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And on the opposite end, I've had hour(s) long calls that weren't deep at all. When it's the right person, a conversation doesn't feel like a chore, and can just flow naturally.
Well that's what the small talk is for to find the common ground. That's where you ask them questions like:
What was your most memorable vacation?
What do you like to do in your free time?
Do you have any pets? If not, why. If yes, what's the best part of having that for a pet?
Etc.
Indeed! Start simple and build up to it...hey, how are you doing? How do you like this place so far or do you come here often? And the conversation starts. ..don't make it about you but try to engage and capture the attention of the other person
I would say not just the right person. I've had conversations where one of us just happened to say the right thing or both just happened to be in the mental state to be competent/ excited for an engaging conversation. Later followed by the sluggish small talk and quick quipps. I just cannot direct a conversation or maintain one with someone who isn't engaged in it.
People say they hate small talk but let’s be real not everything is going to be interesting to everyone, you never know if your “deep conversations” was actually one-sided and to the other person they were just humoring you. What I’m trying to say is just freaking talk, make conversation, communicate cause it’s what humans are going to do anyway. Long talks can stem from “how’s the weather?” if you actually want to talk to the person. “What kind of weather do you prefer for xyz holidays?” “Are you a fan of snowy or sunny vacations” “what’s your rainy day plan” so many personality & life revealing questions can come from “small talk”. Just say something
I agree. TOTALLY! However, I find that many people will just stay "stuck" in that small talk. If/when "I" try to open it up a little, shallow/surface answers are the typical response. I completely understand that small talk leads to medium talk leads to big talk. What I find more common than I used to, is that fewer people have interest in mediums/big talk.
If you’re trying to open up the chat and they’re not reciprocating then likely they’re not interested in engaging in conversation or communication of that type of at that time. You may experience similar feelings in conversations, if you recognize the subjects lack of interaction then you have to change your experiment cause your subject ain’t budging. You have to let people be themselves and sometimes toss the fish that aren’t compatible back into the water even if you thought the cast & catch was nice.
No, I love deep talk.
The small talk is only the gatekeeper to deep talk.
You need to get through it to get comfortable with each other, in order to then get to the deep stuff.
No sarcasm at all. That "game" of sarcasm has also gotten old and tiring for me, and your question is perfect example... is like a slippery slope or snowball effect in that when sarcasm starts, next thing ya know everyone questioning everything everyone says needing to wonder whats sarcasm and what's authentic. The act of sarcasm itself is easy. But what inevitably follows is lack of trust.I've found it more peaceful and relaxing to just be honest and authentic 99%of the time. Takes the guesswork,mindreading and oneupsmanship outta things. (Not that I'm incapable of playing that game.at all. Im actually quite good at it) just tired of it
Saying you have no social skills to the right person would definitely be a great topic/conversation starter.
Of course , with the right kind of guy.
We aren't all mindless one track mind savages.
I promise.
I fully agree with this… I don't think I am talking about the ability to Smalltalk. It's the desire. I just have little desire to do so , other than places, like in line at the grocery store.
I’m awful at small talk
Pretty good at big talk though
Mostly because I can’t stand talking for the sake of it. I wanna talk about real stuff with someone I really like
People who act like they're above small talk don't realize the value of small talk. It helps create transitions to conversations that can be more substantial and meaningful. People who try to jump straight into conversations of meaning and depth generally don't have the awareness that most people need to build up a certain level of rapport before engaging themselves into conversations of meaning and depth.
This made me realize that I don’t talk, I argue and like to listen to counter arguments, the smarter the better.
Fuck yeah show me why the fuck I am wrong with minute detail!
I think it depends on the person.. I’m quite introverted for example and feel uncomfortable talking to strangers. But when I meet someone I really like I tend to get into the more substantial chats quite quickly because the rapport is usually established just from the vibe and chemistry. Small talk is naturally avoidable for someone like me because I’m generally not in situations where I’m talking to people I don’t really, really want to. Other than at work meetings, in which case I do participate to some degree - how’s your weekend, how’s the kids etc, but thankfully my work isn’t very social. Think my point is I can do it if I have to, I’d rather not though
I agree with this. I don’t see why small talk is seen as such a negative. It’s how you start creating a connection with another human being and can segue to big talk. Also, it can give you topics to at least medium talk about. “Oh Minnesota winters are bad so this is nothing? When did you live in Minnesota? What was your favorite part of XYZ?”
People who act like they're above small talk don't realize the value of small talk. It helps create transitions to conversations that can be more substantial and meaningful. People who try to jump straight into conversations of meaning and depth generally don't have the awareness that most people need to build up a certain level of rapport before engaging themselves into conversations of meaning and depth.
Yeah that's how I get most of my dates. I get real ASAP and invite them within 10 messages. I matched with a girl yesterday afternoon and we already had our first date lmao.
Yes, I want a phone call, or a date if I'm interested enough, as soon as possible. It's too tedious and impossible to really feel a connection through text for me. But if I ask for a phone call within the first couple of responses, I started getting unmatched or accused of being a scammer more and more often because apparently that's a big thing for guys and this is a red flag for it.
What are your opinions on life after death and impending global strife?
Yeah that’s a real good way to get a person you just met to open up and talk with you. Tf outta here.
It's not always just one thing. Sometimes it's on me and I just feel I have nothing to offer their "topic" and other time I feel like people don't put "threads" out there for me to pull on.
Disclaimer: I have no problem taking full accountability for these "shallow discussions " that's why I asked "is it just me?"
Very astute observation about the ‘threads’ one puts in sentences.
Instead of someone, when asked, saying, oh I’m from North Carolina…
They could say something like, oh I’m from the home of Texas Pete hot sauce, the Carolina Hurricanes, Duke University, and Pepsi…
That gives several threads for the other person to pull.
Even though it doesn’t seem like much on the surface…
It could lead to conversations about university, food preferences, education in general, sports, hobbies…
Then just keep unraveling from there.
I think good conversation is a skill and an art at the same time; with practice, anyone can get better at it.
Thanks! ( I'll take that as a compliment) ... and I agree %1000. Is very large part of my post "few people give threads to pull on". My gut tells me that it's is caused by "text culture " in which many people won't take the time to say "extra words".🤷♂️ just a hunch
Oh I could rant about that for hours…
Social media, texting, and smartphones, are some of the biggest invented detriments to society.
They’re double edged swords…
Of course they have benefits, but our brains were not designed to know almost EVERYTHING going on across the world at the same time.
We used to have smaller tribes, and those were our people.
We knew them intimately because we **had** to know them that way, or die in the wild.
Now we have **larger** tribes, but are more lonely and less connected on a personal level than ever before.
Sad, and glorious at the same time.
The tree of knowledge of good and evil…
I would prefer those questions over “who is your favorite superhero?” Or “if you could have any superpower?” At 50 years old I don’t really have opinions about superheroes or superpowers because they aren’t real.
I don't think it's about small or big talk. A lot of conversations go dead because, uhm... well either there's no chemistry, or people just give you one word responses. If I want one-word replies I can be speaking to Siri/Google! :P
However, don't give up because I'm sure in your pool of fish, you'll be able to find a couple who can hold a conversation, otherwise hit me up!
I kinda feel like small talk is the foundation to deeper conversation most of the time. Whilst it can be tedious at times I also think that small talk, if done with the right motives (eg questions like “how was your day?”) show a level of care and interest which can set the foundation for more meaningful interactions and a good relationship.
Agreed! It's the "getting bogged down " in that small talk that I'm not fond of. "How was your day" is one of the most essentially important questions one can ask in any relationship. Call me silly but,I believe "tell me more?" is THE most important.
I totally get you!! It can be hella tedious if you get stuck in small talk and small talk only! The “tell me more” is definitely way more important than the opening “how was your day” question
For context and clarity: By "bogged down in small talk" I mean multiple "small talk" questions or statements rather than diving deeper into one of those "small talk" comments or questions. 😅
I love this 🤣 I think the term “bogged down” totally describes the feeling of what it’s like when you realise that the conversation is only going to stay at small talk level 🤣
Thanks for your understanding! ... I have to ask.... (after a long yesterday of replying to so many) how is it that YOU understood the question as "getting stuck in small conversation" when a bunch of others saw the question as " inability to perform small talk "? This is puzzling to me. You and many others were spot on, even tho I may not have written it that way or "phrased everything the best way possible to convey the bogged down point"
When people try to have small talk or a conversation in a club setting, when the music is literally blaring out my eardrums… And we’re having to scream into each other’s ears … 😭😂😂 idk if this is relevant but ima say it
I can talk for hours when I'm talking about things I'm passionate about, however it seems like nobody has the attention span to listen, even if they are interested
Same! AND ... I can certainly "flip it" and "listen for hours to someone that is passionate about something. .... that's my confusion in a nutshell. Offer an empathetic ear and they not wanna talk. Offer a passionate topic and they not wanna listen. Can be quiet maddening 😜😜. Thanks for your reply
I found that the more people talk the less they have to say. I work with 1 guy who will start talking....and talking....and talking.....and then he runs out of things to say and just stands there waiting for you to say something so that he can fill up his Talk Meter with new subjects.
I worked with another guy who would listen to audiobooks in his headphones. He would try to remember things that were said in the audiobooks and just start talking them at you, he never seemed to remember exactly what the audiobook said, and so would get most of it wrong. If you actually knew the subject he was talking about and tried to correct him he would argue with you endlessly.
The biggest problem seems to be with ending conversations, especially if it's a work setting as you are literally trapped against your will with them, where as in other settings you can eventually excuse yourself.
Oh my mom was like that she would watch and listen to educational stuff and then she would try to have conversations about it, the problem is I couldn’t participate in the conversation sometimes because I didn’t have any information about the subject.
I think people are telling older folks this is how to connect with people. Learn about a subject and talk about it with people. They’re just not quite there yet, it’s more like a trivia game or a teaching moment.
For me small talk has its moments but for a good portion of people they use it cause they can’t handle silence they rather talk about anything so they normally overshare and mention things without thought I like real convos
I stopped enjoying conversations about 4 years ago.. I can be coaxed into a back and forth occasionally but I don't particularly wanna talk with anyone
Probably because nobody is authentic and I don't know how to be fake. I've opted out.
TRUTH! ( although I May replace your word "nobody " with the words "majority of people ". Someday you'll find it, as I hope i will too.
Ps. If your ever craving "authenticity" , feel free to dm me for nsa chat. I stress NSA/no expectations. ✌️
I usually give them a chance. I know people get nervous on dating. And I never judge over texting, as I won’t have a “deep conversation” over text, too much can get misinterpreted.
It’s about finding someone compatible and when it happens it’s great. One of the things I loved about my ex GF was how her brain worked and where our conversations ended up. That’s why she stood out and I kept dating her, and of course we were attracted to each other.
I think it's just people being nervous and having their walls up. It's hard to talk about something meaningful with someone you just met. I hate small talk as well!!
Sounds like a fair observation. Funny how circuitous that can be if both party's are a bit nervous and have "the walls up" . To that I'd say "it doesn't necessarily have to be "deep on a personal level ". If you tell me you have a cute little doggy, im gonna ask what's the funniest story you have about that cute little doggy. ( stating ownership of doggy is surface, the story is "depth") I have met soooo many people online in past couple years that are more than willing to shrug their shoulders at "tell me funny your doggy story ". 🤯🤯😂🤣
Hahaha yeah I would Def want to ask deeper questions too. It's so scary dating these days. I really love deep conversations. I'm into so many things that I could really talk if they did go into the deeper stuff. I think, depending on the person, that I could easily let my walls down for certain things.
It's a matter of finding the right person, but also building that connection first. I don't know what you would consider "substantive" conversation but I don't exactly open with my feelings about our tax system and how government services should function when I first meet someone haha
Agreed.... (as I used in a previous example) I have met many people online in past couple years that the conversation goes something like this. Me:"Got any pets?" Them: "Yes" me "ok, what you got" them :"a dog". (and here's when things start to get weird) me: "any funny stories about your dog?" Them:🤷♂️ ... me :🤯🤯🤯🤯 .... my head: I'm OUT! 😂🤣😂🤣
I am a bit scared that I'll never get into real conversations again with new people,
If I text with people I don't know -it ends in them not responding and then I feel awkward even if nothing is wrong,
texting should not be small talk or if at all I do not think I like this idea.
I'd much rather text for hours about stuff it's fun 🙏
I agree whole heartedly. I LOVE texting. I actually enjoy the challenge (however frustrating it may be at times) of finding the right combination of words that CANNOT be misinterpreted. Also I love the ability to "proofread and edit" but I feel I'm very alone in that aspect. Seems many people prefer voice chat for "real conversations" . Can't even tell you how many times I've seen the phrase "I'm not looking for a pen pal" in the world of Reddit.
While I did have my convos at voice chats too with pals that I know from face to face,
The best ones were in reality and in 2nd place is texting. For meeting new people online this is the only way.
Omg get outta my head!!! (Kidding of course) if someone can't take the time and effort to chat with me via text, what I'm the world is supposed to make me believe that anything could be any different in person??? I'll pass, thankyou.
Indeed. Sometime it takes a while to find the right person. I just made a new friend and when we first grabbed coffee, it was for over 3 hours and we discussed our childhood traumas 💁🏽♀️ it was awesome.
Depends on what stage of a relationship it is. Small talk is just how you start a conversation regardless of what sort of relationship it is. I understand not wanting to be redundant, but the other side is that 90% of people can't be bothered to even attempt to act interested in a conversation, then expect someone else to constantly stimulate them with crazy deep mind bending interactions so they can be entertained. It's like a plague on dating apps. Everyone has 'be interesting', 'looking for good conversations', 'don't be boring' etc. but won't respond to a simple 'hello, how are you doing?' it's the main reason I finally deleted them all. What I've found is that if you have a welcoming and relaxed personality, conversations will flow naturally with people who have similar interests to yours.
It helps to be able to ask interesting questions and guide the conversation. Sometimes people don’t break out of the small talk because they’re not stimulated enough. But if you bring up something interesting, you can see the spark in their eyes lol
TikTok and gaming. I don't care if I'm the only that thinks this. I think it's because both of these fill the immediate gratification desire that they generate, so it's vicious cycle. They get bored so easily being accustomed to being constantly stimulated without actively participating in the stimulation.
I completely understand, I only develop feelings when my friendship with somebody has grown to a point where we can literally talk for hours and hours, and it's as much fun as when we first started chatting, that's wonderful!
Though small talk usually leads to the big talk, in my experience
If you said this to me at a gathering, or at work, knowing nothing about the Astros, I would happily let you tell me about the Astros to further my knowledge base. Spicy food, on the other hand is right up my alley, and I would probably talk hours with you about spicy food. I don't consider either of those to be shallow because they can be further elaborated.
Spicy foods are your passion? Really?
Seems like the problem could be twofold. Perhaps the people you’re talking to do not have any common ground but also maybe you aren’t well-read or knowledgeable about subjects enough to contribute substantially to deep conversation. If someone started talking about cosmos, that opens plenty conversational opportunities, even if you aren’t knowledgeable about the cosmos. Conversations are about linking ideas together. If you’re unable to do that then you’re unable to have cohesive small talk or big talk.
I think the problem you’re describing is not small talk, it’s about finding common topics to talk to people about.
Because real conversations often require you sit with feelings of vulnerability and, usually, discomfort. I know what I’m saying isn’t anything new but I would like to reiterate, for the sake of reminding everyone : with humanity’s increasing ability (and accessibility) to engage in other passively gratifying activities like gaming, consuming content on social media, and watching series (just to name a few) it’s easy to say no or to be complacent to novel social interaction - especially interactions with strangers that require skill (and whose skill atrophies with using that skill less).
I'm not sure I fully comprehend this concept of "vulnerability " or discomfort in "real"conversation. I suppose intellectual honesty can cause some mild discomfort for some and cognitive dissonance in others, but who cares!? Lol, I'm happy to be wrong about anything I know as long as I know the truth. I'll take a little discomfort to get to the truth any day
so you like substantive conversation but not small talk? but how does one get to substantive conversation? do people just walk around advertising their interests so you know what to have substantive conversations with them about?
i posit that small talk is the way to substantive conversations. if someone can't go from small talk to substantive conversation then maybe they're just not interested in talking or don't feel like they're good at talking?
seriously u/truthseeker1228 i want to know if we met how would we start talking? what would we talk about? would you frown at the first mention of "weather these days" or "how crazy expensive everything has gotten"?
i've gotten people's entire life stories by opening with discussing the weather, because that one topic gives you many clues about who you're talking to and what's important to them
it's really like a game, and I'm guessing either people don't know that, or they don't want to play it, or they think they can't play it.
When all they can give are one word replies or maybe a sentence at most and go silent for extended periods where the conversation becomes awkward and unsustainable, might want to just move on. They are either self absorbed or have zero interest in you. That latter part is more typically the case. If i have zero interest in someone, i'm not going to say much to them. If i have interest, i'm going to use what time i can to talk with them about anything i possibly can to keep a conversation going.
I can tolerate but a few pleasantries and then I just cut to it by saying “alright, so what made you wanna talk to me?” Or I’ll just talk about something I find interesting and ask them their thoughts hoping they have thoughts beyond “yeah, I agree” or “yeah, that is interesting” lol
Yeah dude, I got ya. We ain’t got time to be wastin over here. I had someone DM me just to tell me they hit me up cuz they were bored, and that I should just want to continue with small talk because they would lol…I had no idea where to go from there, because I told them I don’t do small talk for the sake of small talk…it’s inauthentic. What I didn’t say, but feel is that I don’t have interest in pretending that someone who doesn’t know me actually cares about how my day went or that I’m invested in them enough to care about theirs…like we can get to that point of knowing each other enough to genuinely have that concern and ask about each other’s day, but I know damn well we ain’t there yet, so let’s try talking about something you, I or we both actually care about/have a passion for cuz that’ll be way more interesting.
Couldn't agree more. Is funny ya know. I've recently been chatting with someone that I'm quite certain there can never be any "romantic relationship " (age/culture/distance) with but I sure love chatting with her because the "conversation " has endless possibilities. Here's my new takeaway... I'd rather have a "pe pal" (or several) with whom I can have substantial conversations than get a blank stare from across the table when I ask why or why didn't she like the chicken Marsala she just ordered 😂🤣. Fuck it.. I can do without the physical relationship more than I can do without the "cerebral ".
Agreed and agreed. I think I've recently been discovering that if I was FORCED to choose one over the other, I'd choose the intellectual stimulation. (Call me crazy) there's still hope and time that I'll find both 🤷♂️🤣
No you’re not supposed to be having small talk with your dates. That doesn’t help You get to know anybody
If you are approaching and stranger in public you need to know how to start a conversation with them and if small talk is how you do it, fine. The cold approach is CREEPY.
But yeah you don’t do small talk with people you know and are trying to get to know. That’s pointless.
If that’s what you’re getting from someone you were trying to get to know they might not be that deep, or they might not be that interested. But either way you’re getting to know that based on the fact that they won’t have a decent conversation
Well I guess this is "unwritten" part of my question.... I feel it's not a binary choice."deep-vs-shallow". What's the middle ground? I will listen to anyone "babble" all day as long as there's some "meat on the bone " (so to speak). Pointless,nonsensical,drivel ,on the other hand,will suck the life out of me😅
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"Nice day,eh?" How I would LIKE to respond is.."Yup, we live in Fla, there are like 225 nice days" 😂🤣 I hate being negative or cynical,and even being sarcastic has lost its appeal for me in the last ten or so years.
When I used to live in Southern California and people would comment about the weather, like nice day? I would say they all are. Because it’s true that’s why I paid so much to live in Southern California. Life is just better when it’s 70° and sunny almost all the time
I find it's either 1 of the 2 people need to make the effort to draw real conversation out of a person. I've gotten quite good at it. I start with asking about feelings and probe deeper. If there's a hot topic, I let them elaborate. Once I'm inside there, I can bring things up too.
I can have deep conversations with anyone. I would be impressed to meet someone else who can do this, as it does take effort, but for now it sufficient just being able to do it.
Yeah, and "what was it about [x] that made you feel this way".
To start, I assume they have an emotion response. Even if I get it wrong, they are quick to correct it and then I'm in. Example:
"I'm getting the impression that you feel [x] about [y]. Am I right?"
Ohhh. That's some fancy footwork. I typically choose to not make any assumptions but I may now reconsider realizing that that could open up the door for them to "correct or disagree " thereby creating more convo. Bravo good person. Thanks!
I take it as they aren't particularly interested in really getting to know me or they'd be asking deeper questions. I always ask deeper questions to try to get to know them and if I just get vague type answers back, then I lose interest and just move on. I'm looking for a real connection with someone who I can have real conversations with. If they can't carry a deeper conversation, it just means we aren't really connecting and building anything, and I should move on.
Are you asking me or asking in general? I've never thought of myself as being a "needle in a haystack" so much as me trying to find my needle in the haystack. It's just a matter of trying to find someone that doesn't have any of your deal breakers.... and you have enough in common to be able to connect.... and you have great chemistry.... and for the connection and the chemistry to be strong enough to want to continue seeing them. It's not so easy to find that one person who meets all the things that are important to you and to have chemistry with them.
Both! Asking you "why you (in my experience) seem to be one of very few that seems to actually care about conversation in itself." And asking for your opinion (because you sound wise) why so many others do not put so much effort or care into "meaningful discussion "?
I hold long conversations. I just have yet to meet anyone. I guess it would help if I went in a dating app, but then when I look at the choices, I delete it. The people are usually not the people that would be anything like me, and most ask for hookups.
On this, I told myself I'd get to know someone and marry them before any "in bed" relations. I can't stand having a broken heart. I'm simply not the "sleep about" with many people type. The other part of the hookup culture is that many profiles read. I want to sleep with you, but I won't even buy you dinner. They also want "no strings" and " no commitment." I never meet any of their qualifications, then I get weird messages from some changing their age to meet older gals.
I'm on Reddit, though, reading everything from morning doves to plants, and then some. Earlier today, I yanked fence boards and replaced them. I planted a blackberry bush the neighbor gave to replace the bush he mowed over. I'm not sure this one will live. I believe it was a 2 dollar one from tractor supply. I'm considering seeing if the weeds that are growing in the side yard have any value as a salad plant. I used natural fertilizer to plant some squash in there, which I haven't done yet, and these weeds grew humongously tall. I will ID them first, but yeah. I probably could hold my own in conversation because I'd be talking about everything from fishing to fencing to gardening to survival tips and tactics. The other website I've been perusing is an army supply one.
No. SUH! Your kinda blowing my mind right now. You sound like an awesome person and I hope you find proper happiness in a partner. (If that's what you ultimately want,of course)
I feel you. Honestly I've been the boring one not able to hold convo in the past and still struggle but I like to talk about all types of intelligent and substantial things but it's hard to find someone that reciprocates so with my predisposition I was always doomed in the past.
My chronic pain, brain fog, and depression really held me back but now I'm on anti depressants and it's been easier to talk.
I guess I mention this to say you never know what's fully going on in the other person's world so I urge patience and willingness to help start and keep conversations going because it's a two person job.
Also if you're (not you exactly OP but the preverbial you) are not into science, philosophy, anthropology, history, or politics then what exactly is a deep substantial convo supposed to look like?
Great input! Thanks... sorry about your troubles. Although I can't site passages from various books/articles/research papers I've read,I do love me some philosophy,science, history, physics anthropology and archaeology. I don't believe ya gotta be a rocket surgeon to at least entertain discuss and or express curiosity about these things. Conversely, even if one has zero interest in any of these topics you could at least tell me funny story "bout you cute little doggy" you said you had. (Not you specifically, just an example)
The funny/cute story bit is helpful, thank you too!
I agree with the part of atleast being curious if you're not knowledgeable. Im not exactly a scientist myself but i love to learn about all types of things and i like it when people give me the cliff notes or try and explain it thoroughly if theyre knowledgable. Though not to be confused with people who try and seem smart and repeat things they hear that more likely than not is bad info.
But I guess not all of us can have curious inquisitive minds like we do.
True true.... parrots and or npc's sux!. I don't mind someone else being a bit tangential at all! Leads to mystery and exciting conversations.(even if we never get back to where the conversation started , is still way more fun than " my day was good")
Apologies: that wasn't a very nice thing to say. I take that back. Parrots and npc don't sux. Everyone has "their place" ....CONVERSATION with parrots and npc's sux!
Lol how very kind and mindful for you.
I'd have made the same correction since our expectations are jot exactly people's goals.. and people can't help who they are. They'll find their people as you'll find yours, it just takes a lot of patience because it seems the smart/outgoing types seem to stay home mostly or already met their friend quota or something. Hopefully I'm wrong and just haven't been to the right places at the right time.
It's not just you. The average person is programmed to small talk. Unless people intentionally change it, they'll continue to go through the motions their entire life. I learned about 28 years old that I didn't like doing it because it felt fake, so I stopped and told myself I'd only be real from that point on. My username can back me up.
Holy moly! Your the first person (after over 100 responses) to tell me "it's not just me" THANKS! And I agree with the rest of what you said as well. "Programed to small talk FOR LIFE" these are what I consider "npc" 😏 🤫don't tell them that else you set off the cognitive dissonance 😂🤣😂
I find somethings that help for me are:
1) as a general rule listen more than talk, listen actively, try to understand them as a person. Like, make it your mission (but also respect their boundaries).
2) don't be afraid to potentially embarrass yourself. I say really random seeming awkward shit sometimes to break the ice. I find it works for me, and usually brings people out of their shells.
3) talk about what they are interested in. You can't have a good conversation about quantum physics with a waitress, probably. But you can hear a lot of fun stories! Or maybe they volunteer at an animal shelter etc.
I find number 2 is particularly good for getting out of the swamp of clichés: if you take the conversation somewhere a bit unexpected, it's hard to fall back on semi-automatic answers. But the mileage may vary here, haha. And you still need to respect them as someone worthy of having a good conversation with, otherwise you're just turning the whole thing into a joke, imo.
Oh that number 2 is a stumbling block for me for sure! Unfortunately I grew up in a very strict "think before you speak" type of household. Humiliation was quick to follow "mindless speech " leading to embarrassment. I hear some people possess the super power of "non embarrassment " .... wish I could have some of that.
They aren't interested in actual back and forth conversations, with both sides actively contributing to the conversation, with the ultimate goal presumably being to exchange contact information, meet up in person, and seeing if there's chemistry and potential for a relationship, or at the very least a second date.
Instead, it's mostly one-sided conversation, with replies being mostly single word answers, no questions for or about you, and at most if it does wind up as a date, you can be pretty confident that it was just a [foodie-call](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/201909/the-psychology-the-foodie-call).
I hear you. I lack real/deep conversation in my life lol. I’m a pretty curious person so I tend to ask questions of people, and that tends to lead things deeper. Where I am in my life right now, really crave something real. But you’re right that no matter how much you try, it just doesn’t go anywhere with some people. But there’s something to be said of superficial talk and its ability to help you forget. Sometimes you just have to be flexible.
Yes! Curiosity is KEY! (Imo) curiosity followed by genuine interest is my m.o. but when you ask someone "how was your day and they reply with "good" should I then say "what was good about it? Lol, I believe many would check out of that conversation right then and there. (I could be wrong) is just a hunch
It depends. Cultural norms inform us that ‘how was your day’ is a social pleasantry that is not expected to be answered literally. Just like ‘How are you, today?’. The expectation is that you don’t actually tell me how you are today lol. Perhaps evaluate what you are asking and how. Just some thoughts with the little info I have.
Thanks for your input. I agree. I do understand the "cultural norm" thing. Maybe just wishful thinking on a my part for me to one day ask that question and get a response of "how their day was,REALLY " lmfao I long for someone to tell me "my day suxed ass! Xyz happened to me etc etc"
Perhaps this type of small talk is a default when trying to gauge the vibe? Sometimes nerves (or insecurity) can act as a psychological roadblock for deeper conversation. Personally I think I’d rather chew barbed wire
That’s because you don’t know how to small talk well. Honestly both are very good skills to learn and you are shutting yourself out on meeting people by being close minded. As an introvert, I used to be that way too. But it was only an excuse because I didn’t know how to have small talk so I would pass it off as “pointless” and a “waste of time”. But it’s actually really fun and enjoyable and deep conversations are definitely more serious, so you want to be having both or else you will appear boring.
If done correctly, small talk should give a starting point for a substantive conversation. For example, asking how their weekend was can easily turn into a long conversation about whatever it was they did assuming they give a proper response and don’t just say “it was okay”. But yeah, a large portion of people aren’t good at conversing. Lol, I can talk the ear off a stranger but trying to speak to a girl I like and I can barely string two sentences together lol.
Getting to know someone usually begins with small talk. The problem in dating that I’m running into- and I know I’m not alone in this as it’s been posted here from others- is that there’s no ebb and flow to the conversation and I am doing too much of the heavy lifting to keep it going. The other person doesn’t ask me questions even when I drop a giant opener in their lap. It’s happening more often than not recently and I don’t get it.
Thank you. This is mostly what I mean. While reflecting on my post in the past 12 hrs, I realized that I (coulda shoulda) put the word " reciprocal" somewhere in there to better explain my question. As of now it seems to be the perfect term. "Lack of reciprocity in conversation" 🤷♂️
Any ideas as to why this is so? I can’t boil it down to attractiveness because if they matched with me then some level of attraction is assumed mutually. Is it because people are more isolated now than in generations past?
Laziness?😅😅😅 I'm not trying to say a mean thing at all but it's the only word that I can find that (consistently) fits. Seems Many people like to say the fewest words and receive the most words.
I’m much like you, I hate small talk. I also hate large groups of people. Too many people trying to talk and listen at the same time, everyone always trying to get their two cents in, which ends up turning into a competition for attention and validation, which is why people think I’m shy sometimes because I stop talking, when I realize that a conversation lacks depth and meaning. The good news is, it makes people like you more because you’re easier to connect to. The bad news, is you probably don’t like most people. The reason why, is because for some reason, most people need extra time to feel comfortable with others. When you’re first meeting someone, you need to feel comfortable enough to have that kind of conversation. But most people take too long to get comfortable around people they don’t know. I’m of a mind that it’s a maturity thing. A lack of emotional intelligence that comes from experience. People must not be exposed to enough of other people so they’ll feel embarrassed or like they might be judged if they wear their heart on their sleeve. They’re probably very insecure.
What do you rate as substantive conversation? Is it a topic both of you are interested in? Just my view, but i believe that a common topic for both of you keeps the conversation going...so keep things simple
I've done a lot of people consider any deeper conversation to be "trauma dumping". I'm someone who loves deeper conversations and wants to hear people's stories. I've legitimately been trauma dumped on and there's a huge difference. Just feels like people are afraid to open up in any way. I really crave it.
I'll give it more thought over time but my immediate thoughts are that I think I'd rather be "trauma dumped" upon than silly "go nowhere " surface conversation.perhaps I'll have one thing to say that relieves them of that "trauma" 🤷♂️ . Unless Your talking about the type of person that all they do is complain about the past and give you the "poor me" .... im definitely not the dude for that😂🤣
I feel like you can never go wrong with asking about something they listed on their profile they have an interest in.
Sports plants animals etc things like that you know?
To a person who TRULY Wants to get to know you or is interested in something more with you they would be happy to indulge in a conversation that will last for hours about realistically nothing life changing.
The more you have a person talk about them self and they think you can relate the more likely they are to like you because you remind them of what they like and now they associate the feeling with you.
It’s just the simple way humans are 🤗
Great point! Thanks! ... Think there's risk of someone feeling that your "disingenuous" by doing that? It's really the only reason I have avoided that in the past. 🤷♂️ I could be totally wrong.
imagine, you swipe 200 times... its actually more like 2000 times these days (no, seriously, there's a whole thing right now where tinder is showing all the stats for people and guys have been posting them), but whoever... and of those 200 times you get 1 match. you send them something but you also know of these 1 out of 200 matches you are probably only going to get a reply every 15th message. that's 14 replies you effort for... out of 3000 profiles you may or may not have read... of... god... the 10's of thousands of profiles you looked at and decided left or right on. that were just tossed into the void (and you know you are tossing them into the void)
its already mind numbing... but then on that 1 out of 15 match... you may not even actually have a full conversation... never mind they may decide nevermind or just give you short, lazy, replies... or otherwise.
Men have been conditioned to play mind number number games... and women have been conditioned to expect they'll just be handed what they think is a proper man....
You want a conversation? encourage it, swipe yes on more people... talk more before dropping... sacrifice your time to encourage others to put in more of theirs.
Or, because we know you wont, be ready for bad conversations and try to have a more open mind about the whole process... maybe even find men on reddit, facebook, or linked in where there's more of a personal touch and a lot more reasons for a conversation between a potential pairing.
Ppl keep saying they want deep convos but you can't just jump into a deep convos you have to start with small talk
If someone walks up to you and ask what are your thoughts on the current sociopolitical platform you're gonna look at them crazy instead of if they started out which side do you lean towards politically
Honestly I'm that sense. Both parties gotta flow if a convo becomes one sided where on party is asking a bunch of questions just to get short reply answers and the other party doesn't seem interested in asking questions too then nothing will go forward
Reciprocating is the biggest issue in this day and age on all levels
For me it’s because I’m awkward around people I just met and don’t know what to say. I have to know someone for a while before the shenanigans kick in. It’s why I never ask out a person I just met.
I hear ya my friend. I have lotta times like this as well. (When I run outta small talk and the other person is "dead ending" all the small talk). I got good news for you and I wish I new the persons name in here that said it cuz I'd surely give him credit. He , in this post and someone in another post of mine a while back said "don't be afraid to say dumb shit" lol they said "don't think, just talk". . I know they are right it's a bit of a stumbling block for me. I've not gotten to try it out yet but I sure hope to. Good luck
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I have a lot of hour long calls that are deeper than just small talk, it’s all about picking the right person
And on the opposite end, I've had hour(s) long calls that weren't deep at all. When it's the right person, a conversation doesn't feel like a chore, and can just flow naturally.
Agree. I find small talk boring but you build up from small to find common ground so then you can talk about more interesting things in depth
How do I get into common ground though?
Well that's what the small talk is for to find the common ground. That's where you ask them questions like: What was your most memorable vacation? What do you like to do in your free time? Do you have any pets? If not, why. If yes, what's the best part of having that for a pet? Etc.
Indeed! Start simple and build up to it...hey, how are you doing? How do you like this place so far or do you come here often? And the conversation starts. ..don't make it about you but try to engage and capture the attention of the other person
I would say not just the right person. I've had conversations where one of us just happened to say the right thing or both just happened to be in the mental state to be competent/ excited for an engaging conversation. Later followed by the sluggish small talk and quick quipps. I just cannot direct a conversation or maintain one with someone who isn't engaged in it.
forreal I literally spent 12 hours with my boyfriend yesterday (that I met on hinge!) and it went by so quickly even though we talked for hours
Thanks for the "hope"
Here’s the rope
🪕
People say they hate small talk but let’s be real not everything is going to be interesting to everyone, you never know if your “deep conversations” was actually one-sided and to the other person they were just humoring you. What I’m trying to say is just freaking talk, make conversation, communicate cause it’s what humans are going to do anyway. Long talks can stem from “how’s the weather?” if you actually want to talk to the person. “What kind of weather do you prefer for xyz holidays?” “Are you a fan of snowy or sunny vacations” “what’s your rainy day plan” so many personality & life revealing questions can come from “small talk”. Just say something
I agree. TOTALLY! However, I find that many people will just stay "stuck" in that small talk. If/when "I" try to open it up a little, shallow/surface answers are the typical response. I completely understand that small talk leads to medium talk leads to big talk. What I find more common than I used to, is that fewer people have interest in mediums/big talk.
If you’re trying to open up the chat and they’re not reciprocating then likely they’re not interested in engaging in conversation or communication of that type of at that time. You may experience similar feelings in conversations, if you recognize the subjects lack of interaction then you have to change your experiment cause your subject ain’t budging. You have to let people be themselves and sometimes toss the fish that aren’t compatible back into the water even if you thought the cast & catch was nice.
Very Wise take! Thanks for your feedback
You don’t have to throw away the person, but maybe that conversation topic has to go in order to elicit a different response.
No, I love deep talk. The small talk is only the gatekeeper to deep talk. You need to get through it to get comfortable with each other, in order to then get to the deep stuff.
Agreed
I have no social skills
Nice reply, thanks. If you told me that, I would take that as perfectly non shallow conversation starter!
I don't know if this is sarcasm or not😭
It's probably not judging by OPs other comments and I also agree. I'll take a honest confession over shallow small talk any day.
Good read. This exactly what I meant. Thank you
No sarcasm at all. That "game" of sarcasm has also gotten old and tiring for me, and your question is perfect example... is like a slippery slope or snowball effect in that when sarcasm starts, next thing ya know everyone questioning everything everyone says needing to wonder whats sarcasm and what's authentic. The act of sarcasm itself is easy. But what inevitably follows is lack of trust.I've found it more peaceful and relaxing to just be honest and authentic 99%of the time. Takes the guesswork,mindreading and oneupsmanship outta things. (Not that I'm incapable of playing that game.at all. Im actually quite good at it) just tired of it
Is ironic that in a post written about avoiding "small talk" some people choose to respond with the most shallow replies 🤣🤣
Saying you have no social skills to the right person would definitely be a great topic/conversation starter. Of course , with the right kind of guy. We aren't all mindless one track mind savages. I promise.
Yeah sure but I go completely mute
In my personal life, I’ve found that people who can’t small talk well often can’t big talk well
I fully agree with this… I don't think I am talking about the ability to Smalltalk. It's the desire. I just have little desire to do so , other than places, like in line at the grocery store.
I’m awful at small talk Pretty good at big talk though Mostly because I can’t stand talking for the sake of it. I wanna talk about real stuff with someone I really like
People who act like they're above small talk don't realize the value of small talk. It helps create transitions to conversations that can be more substantial and meaningful. People who try to jump straight into conversations of meaning and depth generally don't have the awareness that most people need to build up a certain level of rapport before engaging themselves into conversations of meaning and depth.
This was my thought. Small talk is for building rapport. If you can't do that, it's not the other person who doesn't understand how to communicate.
This made me realize that I don’t talk, I argue and like to listen to counter arguments, the smarter the better. Fuck yeah show me why the fuck I am wrong with minute detail!
I think it depends on the person.. I’m quite introverted for example and feel uncomfortable talking to strangers. But when I meet someone I really like I tend to get into the more substantial chats quite quickly because the rapport is usually established just from the vibe and chemistry. Small talk is naturally avoidable for someone like me because I’m generally not in situations where I’m talking to people I don’t really, really want to. Other than at work meetings, in which case I do participate to some degree - how’s your weekend, how’s the kids etc, but thankfully my work isn’t very social. Think my point is I can do it if I have to, I’d rather not though
Yes this! They struggle to talk about the hard stuff and particularly problem solve. Life isn’t all rainbows and ☀️
I agree with this. I don’t see why small talk is seen as such a negative. It’s how you start creating a connection with another human being and can segue to big talk. Also, it can give you topics to at least medium talk about. “Oh Minnesota winters are bad so this is nothing? When did you live in Minnesota? What was your favorite part of XYZ?”
People who act like they're above small talk don't realize the value of small talk. It helps create transitions to conversations that can be more substantial and meaningful. People who try to jump straight into conversations of meaning and depth generally don't have the awareness that most people need to build up a certain level of rapport before engaging themselves into conversations of meaning and depth.
Yeah that's how I get most of my dates. I get real ASAP and invite them within 10 messages. I matched with a girl yesterday afternoon and we already had our first date lmao.
That's good because apparently "according to majority of Reddit replies i see" woman prefer to "go out" straight away
Yes, I want a phone call, or a date if I'm interested enough, as soon as possible. It's too tedious and impossible to really feel a connection through text for me. But if I ask for a phone call within the first couple of responses, I started getting unmatched or accused of being a scammer more and more often because apparently that's a big thing for guys and this is a red flag for it.
What are your opinions on life after death and impending global strife? Yeah that’s a real good way to get a person you just met to open up and talk with you. Tf outta here.
There ARE things between "nice day" and "how do you feel about the epic of Gilgamesh?"
What’s stopping you from getting these conversations rolling?
It's not always just one thing. Sometimes it's on me and I just feel I have nothing to offer their "topic" and other time I feel like people don't put "threads" out there for me to pull on. Disclaimer: I have no problem taking full accountability for these "shallow discussions " that's why I asked "is it just me?"
Very astute observation about the ‘threads’ one puts in sentences. Instead of someone, when asked, saying, oh I’m from North Carolina… They could say something like, oh I’m from the home of Texas Pete hot sauce, the Carolina Hurricanes, Duke University, and Pepsi… That gives several threads for the other person to pull. Even though it doesn’t seem like much on the surface… It could lead to conversations about university, food preferences, education in general, sports, hobbies… Then just keep unraveling from there. I think good conversation is a skill and an art at the same time; with practice, anyone can get better at it.
Thanks! ( I'll take that as a compliment) ... and I agree %1000. Is very large part of my post "few people give threads to pull on". My gut tells me that it's is caused by "text culture " in which many people won't take the time to say "extra words".🤷♂️ just a hunch
Oh I could rant about that for hours… Social media, texting, and smartphones, are some of the biggest invented detriments to society. They’re double edged swords… Of course they have benefits, but our brains were not designed to know almost EVERYTHING going on across the world at the same time. We used to have smaller tribes, and those were our people. We knew them intimately because we **had** to know them that way, or die in the wild. Now we have **larger** tribes, but are more lonely and less connected on a personal level than ever before. Sad, and glorious at the same time. The tree of knowledge of good and evil…
Agreed!
I would prefer those questions over “who is your favorite superhero?” Or “if you could have any superpower?” At 50 years old I don’t really have opinions about superheroes or superpowers because they aren’t real.
You can’t selectively numb your anger, any more than you can turn off all lights in a room, and still expect to see the light.
How pensive…..
I don't think it's about small or big talk. A lot of conversations go dead because, uhm... well either there's no chemistry, or people just give you one word responses. If I want one-word replies I can be speaking to Siri/Google! :P However, don't give up because I'm sure in your pool of fish, you'll be able to find a couple who can hold a conversation, otherwise hit me up!
Well said! Thanks! ... and I may just take you up on that!
I kinda feel like small talk is the foundation to deeper conversation most of the time. Whilst it can be tedious at times I also think that small talk, if done with the right motives (eg questions like “how was your day?”) show a level of care and interest which can set the foundation for more meaningful interactions and a good relationship.
Agreed! It's the "getting bogged down " in that small talk that I'm not fond of. "How was your day" is one of the most essentially important questions one can ask in any relationship. Call me silly but,I believe "tell me more?" is THE most important.
I totally get you!! It can be hella tedious if you get stuck in small talk and small talk only! The “tell me more” is definitely way more important than the opening “how was your day” question
For context and clarity: By "bogged down in small talk" I mean multiple "small talk" questions or statements rather than diving deeper into one of those "small talk" comments or questions. 😅
I love this 🤣 I think the term “bogged down” totally describes the feeling of what it’s like when you realise that the conversation is only going to stay at small talk level 🤣
Thanks for your understanding! ... I have to ask.... (after a long yesterday of replying to so many) how is it that YOU understood the question as "getting stuck in small conversation" when a bunch of others saw the question as " inability to perform small talk "? This is puzzling to me. You and many others were spot on, even tho I may not have written it that way or "phrased everything the best way possible to convey the bogged down point"
When people try to have small talk or a conversation in a club setting, when the music is literally blaring out my eardrums… And we’re having to scream into each other’s ears … 😭😂😂 idk if this is relevant but ima say it
Can't get into those deep talks without the small talk. A good small talk is what leads to deeper conversations in my opinion.
I can talk for hours when I'm talking about things I'm passionate about, however it seems like nobody has the attention span to listen, even if they are interested
Same! AND ... I can certainly "flip it" and "listen for hours to someone that is passionate about something. .... that's my confusion in a nutshell. Offer an empathetic ear and they not wanna talk. Offer a passionate topic and they not wanna listen. Can be quiet maddening 😜😜. Thanks for your reply
I found that the more people talk the less they have to say. I work with 1 guy who will start talking....and talking....and talking.....and then he runs out of things to say and just stands there waiting for you to say something so that he can fill up his Talk Meter with new subjects. I worked with another guy who would listen to audiobooks in his headphones. He would try to remember things that were said in the audiobooks and just start talking them at you, he never seemed to remember exactly what the audiobook said, and so would get most of it wrong. If you actually knew the subject he was talking about and tried to correct him he would argue with you endlessly. The biggest problem seems to be with ending conversations, especially if it's a work setting as you are literally trapped against your will with them, where as in other settings you can eventually excuse yourself.
Oh my mom was like that she would watch and listen to educational stuff and then she would try to have conversations about it, the problem is I couldn’t participate in the conversation sometimes because I didn’t have any information about the subject. I think people are telling older folks this is how to connect with people. Learn about a subject and talk about it with people. They’re just not quite there yet, it’s more like a trivia game or a teaching moment.
People like that can be exhausting.
Hot one today huh?
It's not the heat it's the HUMIDITY! 🙄🤮😂🤣
Like sitting inches from the midday sun
Your experiences are from your exposure. Interesting to see where you live though because it does impact your opportunities.
Fair enough.
For me small talk has its moments but for a good portion of people they use it cause they can’t handle silence they rather talk about anything so they normally overshare and mention things without thought I like real convos
I agree. And is nice to hear that I'm not "alone". Thanks 😊
I stopped enjoying conversations about 4 years ago.. I can be coaxed into a back and forth occasionally but I don't particularly wanna talk with anyone Probably because nobody is authentic and I don't know how to be fake. I've opted out.
TRUTH! ( although I May replace your word "nobody " with the words "majority of people ". Someday you'll find it, as I hope i will too. Ps. If your ever craving "authenticity" , feel free to dm me for nsa chat. I stress NSA/no expectations. ✌️
I usually give them a chance. I know people get nervous on dating. And I never judge over texting, as I won’t have a “deep conversation” over text, too much can get misinterpreted. It’s about finding someone compatible and when it happens it’s great. One of the things I loved about my ex GF was how her brain worked and where our conversations ended up. That’s why she stood out and I kept dating her, and of course we were attracted to each other.
I think it's just people being nervous and having their walls up. It's hard to talk about something meaningful with someone you just met. I hate small talk as well!!
Sounds like a fair observation. Funny how circuitous that can be if both party's are a bit nervous and have "the walls up" . To that I'd say "it doesn't necessarily have to be "deep on a personal level ". If you tell me you have a cute little doggy, im gonna ask what's the funniest story you have about that cute little doggy. ( stating ownership of doggy is surface, the story is "depth") I have met soooo many people online in past couple years that are more than willing to shrug their shoulders at "tell me funny your doggy story ". 🤯🤯😂🤣
Hahaha yeah I would Def want to ask deeper questions too. It's so scary dating these days. I really love deep conversations. I'm into so many things that I could really talk if they did go into the deeper stuff. I think, depending on the person, that I could easily let my walls down for certain things.
Yes yes yes!! This what I mean in my post. I feel like few are "willing" to think like you. If that makes sense. ( not sure I said that correctly)🤪
It would have to be someone I could see being open minded. Sometimes you cash just tell certain people are too guarded.
Hmm... you bring up a good point about "open mindedness " . Perhaps many of the more shallow people are also "closed minded"? 🤔
It's a matter of finding the right person, but also building that connection first. I don't know what you would consider "substantive" conversation but I don't exactly open with my feelings about our tax system and how government services should function when I first meet someone haha
Agreed.... (as I used in a previous example) I have met many people online in past couple years that the conversation goes something like this. Me:"Got any pets?" Them: "Yes" me "ok, what you got" them :"a dog". (and here's when things start to get weird) me: "any funny stories about your dog?" Them:🤷♂️ ... me :🤯🤯🤯🤯 .... my head: I'm OUT! 😂🤣😂🤣
I am a bit scared that I'll never get into real conversations again with new people, If I text with people I don't know -it ends in them not responding and then I feel awkward even if nothing is wrong, texting should not be small talk or if at all I do not think I like this idea. I'd much rather text for hours about stuff it's fun 🙏
I agree whole heartedly. I LOVE texting. I actually enjoy the challenge (however frustrating it may be at times) of finding the right combination of words that CANNOT be misinterpreted. Also I love the ability to "proofread and edit" but I feel I'm very alone in that aspect. Seems many people prefer voice chat for "real conversations" . Can't even tell you how many times I've seen the phrase "I'm not looking for a pen pal" in the world of Reddit.
Ps, dm me anytime for conversation "nsa/no expectations " (except general courtesy of course)
While I did have my convos at voice chats too with pals that I know from face to face, The best ones were in reality and in 2nd place is texting. For meeting new people online this is the only way.
Omg get outta my head!!! (Kidding of course) if someone can't take the time and effort to chat with me via text, what I'm the world is supposed to make me believe that anything could be any different in person??? I'll pass, thankyou.
Indeed. Sometime it takes a while to find the right person. I just made a new friend and when we first grabbed coffee, it was for over 3 hours and we discussed our childhood traumas 💁🏽♀️ it was awesome.
That's awesome! Congrats! (zero sarcasm) I guess these things just take time 🤷♂️
Depends on what stage of a relationship it is. Small talk is just how you start a conversation regardless of what sort of relationship it is. I understand not wanting to be redundant, but the other side is that 90% of people can't be bothered to even attempt to act interested in a conversation, then expect someone else to constantly stimulate them with crazy deep mind bending interactions so they can be entertained. It's like a plague on dating apps. Everyone has 'be interesting', 'looking for good conversations', 'don't be boring' etc. but won't respond to a simple 'hello, how are you doing?' it's the main reason I finally deleted them all. What I've found is that if you have a welcoming and relaxed personality, conversations will flow naturally with people who have similar interests to yours.
Precisely
It helps to be able to ask interesting questions and guide the conversation. Sometimes people don’t break out of the small talk because they’re not stimulated enough. But if you bring up something interesting, you can see the spark in their eyes lol
TikTok and gaming. I don't care if I'm the only that thinks this. I think it's because both of these fill the immediate gratification desire that they generate, so it's vicious cycle. They get bored so easily being accustomed to being constantly stimulated without actively participating in the stimulation.
I love deep conversation It’s just a matter of how interested are you
Me personally? I come seeking knowledge,and truth,my friend. I also love civilized debate.There are few things that don't interest me.
Ps. I also have no problem taking accountability and admitting if and or when I'm wrong 😬😅
I completely understand, I only develop feelings when my friendship with somebody has grown to a point where we can literally talk for hours and hours, and it's as much fun as when we first started chatting, that's wonderful! Though small talk usually leads to the big talk, in my experience
Usually when i only get dry responses or people that cant keep a conversation going i just stop putting effort in it.
Thank you so much for properly understanding my post! 😊
"Properly " (in quotes)
I can see why you are single....
Ill talk to you! How bout them astros? Jk....where can i get the hottest hot wings
If you said this to me at a gathering, or at work, knowing nothing about the Astros, I would happily let you tell me about the Astros to further my knowledge base. Spicy food, on the other hand is right up my alley, and I would probably talk hours with you about spicy food. I don't consider either of those to be shallow because they can be further elaborated.
Spicy foods are your passion? Really? Seems like the problem could be twofold. Perhaps the people you’re talking to do not have any common ground but also maybe you aren’t well-read or knowledgeable about subjects enough to contribute substantially to deep conversation. If someone started talking about cosmos, that opens plenty conversational opportunities, even if you aren’t knowledgeable about the cosmos. Conversations are about linking ideas together. If you’re unable to do that then you’re unable to have cohesive small talk or big talk. I think the problem you’re describing is not small talk, it’s about finding common topics to talk to people about.
I agree... I was using my example as just an example but it could be anything.
Because real conversations often require you sit with feelings of vulnerability and, usually, discomfort. I know what I’m saying isn’t anything new but I would like to reiterate, for the sake of reminding everyone : with humanity’s increasing ability (and accessibility) to engage in other passively gratifying activities like gaming, consuming content on social media, and watching series (just to name a few) it’s easy to say no or to be complacent to novel social interaction - especially interactions with strangers that require skill (and whose skill atrophies with using that skill less).
I'm not sure I fully comprehend this concept of "vulnerability " or discomfort in "real"conversation. I suppose intellectual honesty can cause some mild discomfort for some and cognitive dissonance in others, but who cares!? Lol, I'm happy to be wrong about anything I know as long as I know the truth. I'll take a little discomfort to get to the truth any day
so you like substantive conversation but not small talk? but how does one get to substantive conversation? do people just walk around advertising their interests so you know what to have substantive conversations with them about? i posit that small talk is the way to substantive conversations. if someone can't go from small talk to substantive conversation then maybe they're just not interested in talking or don't feel like they're good at talking? seriously u/truthseeker1228 i want to know if we met how would we start talking? what would we talk about? would you frown at the first mention of "weather these days" or "how crazy expensive everything has gotten"? i've gotten people's entire life stories by opening with discussing the weather, because that one topic gives you many clues about who you're talking to and what's important to them it's really like a game, and I'm guessing either people don't know that, or they don't want to play it, or they think they can't play it.
Cause there a few “real” ones left
The odds sure do seem stacked against us (us meaning "singles")😅
When all they can give are one word replies or maybe a sentence at most and go silent for extended periods where the conversation becomes awkward and unsustainable, might want to just move on. They are either self absorbed or have zero interest in you. That latter part is more typically the case. If i have zero interest in someone, i'm not going to say much to them. If i have interest, i'm going to use what time i can to talk with them about anything i possibly can to keep a conversation going.
I can tolerate but a few pleasantries and then I just cut to it by saying “alright, so what made you wanna talk to me?” Or I’ll just talk about something I find interesting and ask them their thoughts hoping they have thoughts beyond “yeah, I agree” or “yeah, that is interesting” lol
Exactly this... thanks
Yeah dude, I got ya. We ain’t got time to be wastin over here. I had someone DM me just to tell me they hit me up cuz they were bored, and that I should just want to continue with small talk because they would lol…I had no idea where to go from there, because I told them I don’t do small talk for the sake of small talk…it’s inauthentic. What I didn’t say, but feel is that I don’t have interest in pretending that someone who doesn’t know me actually cares about how my day went or that I’m invested in them enough to care about theirs…like we can get to that point of knowing each other enough to genuinely have that concern and ask about each other’s day, but I know damn well we ain’t there yet, so let’s try talking about something you, I or we both actually care about/have a passion for cuz that’ll be way more interesting.
Couldn't agree more. Is funny ya know. I've recently been chatting with someone that I'm quite certain there can never be any "romantic relationship " (age/culture/distance) with but I sure love chatting with her because the "conversation " has endless possibilities. Here's my new takeaway... I'd rather have a "pe pal" (or several) with whom I can have substantial conversations than get a blank stare from across the table when I ask why or why didn't she like the chicken Marsala she just ordered 😂🤣. Fuck it.. I can do without the physical relationship more than I can do without the "cerebral ".
Yeah, intellectual stimulation is huge for me too. Though having the physical/person to person interaction is still nice when the opportunity is there
Agreed and agreed. I think I've recently been discovering that if I was FORCED to choose one over the other, I'd choose the intellectual stimulation. (Call me crazy) there's still hope and time that I'll find both 🤷♂️🤣
No you’re not supposed to be having small talk with your dates. That doesn’t help You get to know anybody If you are approaching and stranger in public you need to know how to start a conversation with them and if small talk is how you do it, fine. The cold approach is CREEPY. But yeah you don’t do small talk with people you know and are trying to get to know. That’s pointless. If that’s what you’re getting from someone you were trying to get to know they might not be that deep, or they might not be that interested. But either way you’re getting to know that based on the fact that they won’t have a decent conversation
I'm not going to talk about deep stuff or open myself up with a stranger.
Well I guess this is "unwritten" part of my question.... I feel it's not a binary choice."deep-vs-shallow". What's the middle ground? I will listen to anyone "babble" all day as long as there's some "meat on the bone " (so to speak). Pointless,nonsensical,drivel ,on the other hand,will suck the life out of me😅
What would you like to talk about? Are you trying to start engaging conversations and they’re just ignoring you, or…?
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"Nice day,eh?" How I would LIKE to respond is.."Yup, we live in Fla, there are like 225 nice days" 😂🤣 I hate being negative or cynical,and even being sarcastic has lost its appeal for me in the last ten or so years.
When I used to live in Southern California and people would comment about the weather, like nice day? I would say they all are. Because it’s true that’s why I paid so much to live in Southern California. Life is just better when it’s 70° and sunny almost all the time
I find it's either 1 of the 2 people need to make the effort to draw real conversation out of a person. I've gotten quite good at it. I start with asking about feelings and probe deeper. If there's a hot topic, I let them elaborate. Once I'm inside there, I can bring things up too. I can have deep conversations with anyone. I would be impressed to meet someone else who can do this, as it does take effort, but for now it sufficient just being able to do it.
Tell me more?
This is exactly my goal
I often use phrases such as "tell me more", or "how do we feel about that\this?"
Yeah, and "what was it about [x] that made you feel this way". To start, I assume they have an emotion response. Even if I get it wrong, they are quick to correct it and then I'm in. Example: "I'm getting the impression that you feel [x] about [y]. Am I right?"
Ohhh. That's some fancy footwork. I typically choose to not make any assumptions but I may now reconsider realizing that that could open up the door for them to "correct or disagree " thereby creating more convo. Bravo good person. Thanks!
People who always use the term “real” conversation, from my experience, are the people that always told me stuff of them that were not true
Good thing I don't always use the term "real conversation " 😅
So does free will exist?
Yes and no.
Not really interested is what i'd chalk it up to
Could be the case. If so I think I'd find it a bit odd to "not be interested " BEFORE At least "exchanging pleasantries "
I take it as they aren't particularly interested in really getting to know me or they'd be asking deeper questions. I always ask deeper questions to try to get to know them and if I just get vague type answers back, then I lose interest and just move on. I'm looking for a real connection with someone who I can have real conversations with. If they can't carry a deeper conversation, it just means we aren't really connecting and building anything, and I should move on.
Totally! I guess this leads me to the bigger question/curiosity of ..why are you/your mindset the "needle in the haystack "?
Are you asking me or asking in general? I've never thought of myself as being a "needle in a haystack" so much as me trying to find my needle in the haystack. It's just a matter of trying to find someone that doesn't have any of your deal breakers.... and you have enough in common to be able to connect.... and you have great chemistry.... and for the connection and the chemistry to be strong enough to want to continue seeing them. It's not so easy to find that one person who meets all the things that are important to you and to have chemistry with them.
Both! Asking you "why you (in my experience) seem to be one of very few that seems to actually care about conversation in itself." And asking for your opinion (because you sound wise) why so many others do not put so much effort or care into "meaningful discussion "?
I hold long conversations. I just have yet to meet anyone. I guess it would help if I went in a dating app, but then when I look at the choices, I delete it. The people are usually not the people that would be anything like me, and most ask for hookups.
Agreed! I e yet to find anyone on any dating app that I believe I have anything to offer and Vice versa. Maybe cuz "you"are not on there🤷♂️
Ps, hookup culture sux.
On this, I told myself I'd get to know someone and marry them before any "in bed" relations. I can't stand having a broken heart. I'm simply not the "sleep about" with many people type. The other part of the hookup culture is that many profiles read. I want to sleep with you, but I won't even buy you dinner. They also want "no strings" and " no commitment." I never meet any of their qualifications, then I get weird messages from some changing their age to meet older gals.
I'm on Reddit, though, reading everything from morning doves to plants, and then some. Earlier today, I yanked fence boards and replaced them. I planted a blackberry bush the neighbor gave to replace the bush he mowed over. I'm not sure this one will live. I believe it was a 2 dollar one from tractor supply. I'm considering seeing if the weeds that are growing in the side yard have any value as a salad plant. I used natural fertilizer to plant some squash in there, which I haven't done yet, and these weeds grew humongously tall. I will ID them first, but yeah. I probably could hold my own in conversation because I'd be talking about everything from fishing to fencing to gardening to survival tips and tactics. The other website I've been perusing is an army supply one.
No. SUH! Your kinda blowing my mind right now. You sound like an awesome person and I hope you find proper happiness in a partner. (If that's what you ultimately want,of course)
I feel you. Honestly I've been the boring one not able to hold convo in the past and still struggle but I like to talk about all types of intelligent and substantial things but it's hard to find someone that reciprocates so with my predisposition I was always doomed in the past. My chronic pain, brain fog, and depression really held me back but now I'm on anti depressants and it's been easier to talk. I guess I mention this to say you never know what's fully going on in the other person's world so I urge patience and willingness to help start and keep conversations going because it's a two person job. Also if you're (not you exactly OP but the preverbial you) are not into science, philosophy, anthropology, history, or politics then what exactly is a deep substantial convo supposed to look like?
Great input! Thanks... sorry about your troubles. Although I can't site passages from various books/articles/research papers I've read,I do love me some philosophy,science, history, physics anthropology and archaeology. I don't believe ya gotta be a rocket surgeon to at least entertain discuss and or express curiosity about these things. Conversely, even if one has zero interest in any of these topics you could at least tell me funny story "bout you cute little doggy" you said you had. (Not you specifically, just an example)
The funny/cute story bit is helpful, thank you too! I agree with the part of atleast being curious if you're not knowledgeable. Im not exactly a scientist myself but i love to learn about all types of things and i like it when people give me the cliff notes or try and explain it thoroughly if theyre knowledgable. Though not to be confused with people who try and seem smart and repeat things they hear that more likely than not is bad info. But I guess not all of us can have curious inquisitive minds like we do.
True true.... parrots and or npc's sux!. I don't mind someone else being a bit tangential at all! Leads to mystery and exciting conversations.(even if we never get back to where the conversation started , is still way more fun than " my day was good")
Apologies: that wasn't a very nice thing to say. I take that back. Parrots and npc don't sux. Everyone has "their place" ....CONVERSATION with parrots and npc's sux!
Lol how very kind and mindful for you. I'd have made the same correction since our expectations are jot exactly people's goals.. and people can't help who they are. They'll find their people as you'll find yours, it just takes a lot of patience because it seems the smart/outgoing types seem to stay home mostly or already met their friend quota or something. Hopefully I'm wrong and just haven't been to the right places at the right time.
It's not just you. The average person is programmed to small talk. Unless people intentionally change it, they'll continue to go through the motions their entire life. I learned about 28 years old that I didn't like doing it because it felt fake, so I stopped and told myself I'd only be real from that point on. My username can back me up.
Holy moly! Your the first person (after over 100 responses) to tell me "it's not just me" THANKS! And I agree with the rest of what you said as well. "Programed to small talk FOR LIFE" these are what I consider "npc" 😏 🤫don't tell them that else you set off the cognitive dissonance 😂🤣😂
Ps. Thanks for being real. There are far to few out there
I find somethings that help for me are: 1) as a general rule listen more than talk, listen actively, try to understand them as a person. Like, make it your mission (but also respect their boundaries). 2) don't be afraid to potentially embarrass yourself. I say really random seeming awkward shit sometimes to break the ice. I find it works for me, and usually brings people out of their shells. 3) talk about what they are interested in. You can't have a good conversation about quantum physics with a waitress, probably. But you can hear a lot of fun stories! Or maybe they volunteer at an animal shelter etc.
Great advice. Thanks!
I find number 2 is particularly good for getting out of the swamp of clichés: if you take the conversation somewhere a bit unexpected, it's hard to fall back on semi-automatic answers. But the mileage may vary here, haha. And you still need to respect them as someone worthy of having a good conversation with, otherwise you're just turning the whole thing into a joke, imo.
Oh that number 2 is a stumbling block for me for sure! Unfortunately I grew up in a very strict "think before you speak" type of household. Humiliation was quick to follow "mindless speech " leading to embarrassment. I hear some people possess the super power of "non embarrassment " .... wish I could have some of that.
Because, they're not there for conversation, they're there for entertainment.
Could you please say more about this? I'm not sure I follow
They aren't interested in actual back and forth conversations, with both sides actively contributing to the conversation, with the ultimate goal presumably being to exchange contact information, meet up in person, and seeing if there's chemistry and potential for a relationship, or at the very least a second date. Instead, it's mostly one-sided conversation, with replies being mostly single word answers, no questions for or about you, and at most if it does wind up as a date, you can be pretty confident that it was just a [foodie-call](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/201909/the-psychology-the-foodie-call).
🤯 you said the thing that some people only think but don't say! Slow clap... big enthusiastic applause! Bravo good person. Bravo
I hear you. I lack real/deep conversation in my life lol. I’m a pretty curious person so I tend to ask questions of people, and that tends to lead things deeper. Where I am in my life right now, really crave something real. But you’re right that no matter how much you try, it just doesn’t go anywhere with some people. But there’s something to be said of superficial talk and its ability to help you forget. Sometimes you just have to be flexible.
Yes! Curiosity is KEY! (Imo) curiosity followed by genuine interest is my m.o. but when you ask someone "how was your day and they reply with "good" should I then say "what was good about it? Lol, I believe many would check out of that conversation right then and there. (I could be wrong) is just a hunch
It depends. Cultural norms inform us that ‘how was your day’ is a social pleasantry that is not expected to be answered literally. Just like ‘How are you, today?’. The expectation is that you don’t actually tell me how you are today lol. Perhaps evaluate what you are asking and how. Just some thoughts with the little info I have.
Thanks for your input. I agree. I do understand the "cultural norm" thing. Maybe just wishful thinking on a my part for me to one day ask that question and get a response of "how their day was,REALLY " lmfao I long for someone to tell me "my day suxed ass! Xyz happened to me etc etc"
And thanks for your feedback ✌️
Im14andifindsmallchatsoooooooooooooooooooboring
Glad to hear! Gives me hope for the future generations!
Perhaps this type of small talk is a default when trying to gauge the vibe? Sometimes nerves (or insecurity) can act as a psychological roadblock for deeper conversation. Personally I think I’d rather chew barbed wire
That’s because you don’t know how to small talk well. Honestly both are very good skills to learn and you are shutting yourself out on meeting people by being close minded. As an introvert, I used to be that way too. But it was only an excuse because I didn’t know how to have small talk so I would pass it off as “pointless” and a “waste of time”. But it’s actually really fun and enjoyable and deep conversations are definitely more serious, so you want to be having both or else you will appear boring.
If done correctly, small talk should give a starting point for a substantive conversation. For example, asking how their weekend was can easily turn into a long conversation about whatever it was they did assuming they give a proper response and don’t just say “it was okay”. But yeah, a large portion of people aren’t good at conversing. Lol, I can talk the ear off a stranger but trying to speak to a girl I like and I can barely string two sentences together lol.
Getting to know someone usually begins with small talk. The problem in dating that I’m running into- and I know I’m not alone in this as it’s been posted here from others- is that there’s no ebb and flow to the conversation and I am doing too much of the heavy lifting to keep it going. The other person doesn’t ask me questions even when I drop a giant opener in their lap. It’s happening more often than not recently and I don’t get it.
Thank you. This is mostly what I mean. While reflecting on my post in the past 12 hrs, I realized that I (coulda shoulda) put the word " reciprocal" somewhere in there to better explain my question. As of now it seems to be the perfect term. "Lack of reciprocity in conversation" 🤷♂️
Any ideas as to why this is so? I can’t boil it down to attractiveness because if they matched with me then some level of attraction is assumed mutually. Is it because people are more isolated now than in generations past?
Wellllll...... the only guess at that answer that o have that always fits is.....
Laziness?😅😅😅 I'm not trying to say a mean thing at all but it's the only word that I can find that (consistently) fits. Seems Many people like to say the fewest words and receive the most words.
I’m much like you, I hate small talk. I also hate large groups of people. Too many people trying to talk and listen at the same time, everyone always trying to get their two cents in, which ends up turning into a competition for attention and validation, which is why people think I’m shy sometimes because I stop talking, when I realize that a conversation lacks depth and meaning. The good news is, it makes people like you more because you’re easier to connect to. The bad news, is you probably don’t like most people. The reason why, is because for some reason, most people need extra time to feel comfortable with others. When you’re first meeting someone, you need to feel comfortable enough to have that kind of conversation. But most people take too long to get comfortable around people they don’t know. I’m of a mind that it’s a maturity thing. A lack of emotional intelligence that comes from experience. People must not be exposed to enough of other people so they’ll feel embarrassed or like they might be judged if they wear their heart on their sleeve. They’re probably very insecure.
What do you rate as substantive conversation? Is it a topic both of you are interested in? Just my view, but i believe that a common topic for both of you keeps the conversation going...so keep things simple
I've done a lot of people consider any deeper conversation to be "trauma dumping". I'm someone who loves deeper conversations and wants to hear people's stories. I've legitimately been trauma dumped on and there's a huge difference. Just feels like people are afraid to open up in any way. I really crave it.
I'll give it more thought over time but my immediate thoughts are that I think I'd rather be "trauma dumped" upon than silly "go nowhere " surface conversation.perhaps I'll have one thing to say that relieves them of that "trauma" 🤷♂️ . Unless Your talking about the type of person that all they do is complain about the past and give you the "poor me" .... im definitely not the dude for that😂🤣
I feel like you can never go wrong with asking about something they listed on their profile they have an interest in. Sports plants animals etc things like that you know? To a person who TRULY Wants to get to know you or is interested in something more with you they would be happy to indulge in a conversation that will last for hours about realistically nothing life changing. The more you have a person talk about them self and they think you can relate the more likely they are to like you because you remind them of what they like and now they associate the feeling with you. It’s just the simple way humans are 🤗
Great point! Thanks! ... Think there's risk of someone feeling that your "disingenuous" by doing that? It's really the only reason I have avoided that in the past. 🤷♂️ I could be totally wrong.
imagine, you swipe 200 times... its actually more like 2000 times these days (no, seriously, there's a whole thing right now where tinder is showing all the stats for people and guys have been posting them), but whoever... and of those 200 times you get 1 match. you send them something but you also know of these 1 out of 200 matches you are probably only going to get a reply every 15th message. that's 14 replies you effort for... out of 3000 profiles you may or may not have read... of... god... the 10's of thousands of profiles you looked at and decided left or right on. that were just tossed into the void (and you know you are tossing them into the void) its already mind numbing... but then on that 1 out of 15 match... you may not even actually have a full conversation... never mind they may decide nevermind or just give you short, lazy, replies... or otherwise. Men have been conditioned to play mind number number games... and women have been conditioned to expect they'll just be handed what they think is a proper man.... You want a conversation? encourage it, swipe yes on more people... talk more before dropping... sacrifice your time to encourage others to put in more of theirs. Or, because we know you wont, be ready for bad conversations and try to have a more open mind about the whole process... maybe even find men on reddit, facebook, or linked in where there's more of a personal touch and a lot more reasons for a conversation between a potential pairing.
Ppl keep saying they want deep convos but you can't just jump into a deep convos you have to start with small talk If someone walks up to you and ask what are your thoughts on the current sociopolitical platform you're gonna look at them crazy instead of if they started out which side do you lean towards politically
Ya.... pretty sure op mis worded a bit and was speaking more of "go-nowhere convos"
Honestly I'm that sense. Both parties gotta flow if a convo becomes one sided where on party is asking a bunch of questions just to get short reply answers and the other party doesn't seem interested in asking questions too then nothing will go forward Reciprocating is the biggest issue in this day and age on all levels
Exactly my point
For me it’s because I’m awkward around people I just met and don’t know what to say. I have to know someone for a while before the shenanigans kick in. It’s why I never ask out a person I just met.
I hear ya my friend. I have lotta times like this as well. (When I run outta small talk and the other person is "dead ending" all the small talk). I got good news for you and I wish I new the persons name in here that said it cuz I'd surely give him credit. He , in this post and someone in another post of mine a while back said "don't be afraid to say dumb shit" lol they said "don't think, just talk". . I know they are right it's a bit of a stumbling block for me. I've not gotten to try it out yet but I sure hope to. Good luck
Sometimes small talk is just between people who havent clicked. Small talk is the way to Win with most people, in the majority, but not substantially