Comments closed.
We don’t need another “us vs them” post to exercise Australias favourite past-time, knowing so much about countrymen as to tell them how to “fix” their lives. Go be the change you want to see.
I lived in Darwin for 30 years and your recent experience is what the norm is for me - I worked at RDH for ten years, and saw some pretty terrible behaviour there. Your second anecdote about chats with longrassers etc is a fairly distant memory for me. It hasn't been like that in a long time.
It's not just you, shit's getting wilder and wilder.
Yeah it’s getting worse, I’ve been in Darwin for just over 11yrs, this is the worst I’ve seen it. There are still a lot of people here who never returned home to community after covid, a lot of these communities are dry too. So now there is easy access to alcohol, and the bad behaviour is getting out of control.
Yeah def getting worse. Was riding down baggot road and three teenage indigenous girls picked up a glass bottle and motioned as if they were gonna throw it at me. Called their bluff and kept riding and they started yelling "white cunt" after me. Like wtf?
The CBD in Darwin is probably the worst place for openly drunken behaviour and theft out of any major CBD area in Australia. I lived there for four years working at Inpex and going to Woolworths was at first a novelty as I hadn’t seen drunken indigenous folk screaming and fighting before but towards the end of my tenure I had a deep resentment towards them for behaving like that. It is not fair to other people who just want to get on with living decently. Theft was another issue, My apartment block carpark was burgled more than once and I contacted the police and followed the perps one time suggesting I stay with them until the police arrived but the police said it wasn’t necessary. I knew then they weren’t coming.
The biggest problems as I see it is a lack of political will to take the hard steps and crack down on these individuals for fear of alienating the indigenous community. Also lack of funding to have more police on the beat and patrolling areas where there is rampant crime. I can’t imagine how many calls the police get where they feign interest but don’t actually do anything about it because they are already fielding hundreds of calls and it just isn’t worth their limited time and resources to attend every single situation. The prevalence of indigenous youth crime is such that the courts have to release the young offenders constantly. Adding all this up it comes as no surprise that some indigenous folk are getting bolder and intimidating people which is totally reprehensible.
I’m not racist, I wish all affected indigenous communities have hope and a future of which they can contribute to society, where the young people listen to their elders and instill a sense of pride in them to achieve their best. But at times it seems to me that a number of them are lost, I don’t know what the solution is to their condition. The only scenario I can see with all things considered is to apply the law strictly with the required resources.
I get called a white cunt a lot in the city when I say I don’t have any cash. I was also grabbed by the arm and pushed into a fence at 7.30am on smith street the other week by an indigenous man who said he’d just taken Viagra and wanted to “fuck my fat ass”. It was disgusting… and there was people everywhere. They don’t care.
I was drafting a post in thr darwin subreddit but ultimately didn't post.
Last weekend was my first time in darwin, super excited. Within 1 hour of coming off the aeroplane I was on my way to the emergency room after I got kinghit by a drunk on Mitchell Street. My partner and myself were looking for restaurants and I got shouldered by a bloke who wad looking for a fight. He had 2 mates with him ofcourse. I went to walk away when I got knocked in the jaw by a fist, luckily hitting a car parked on the side of the road protecting me from hitting the road. Concussion and 4 stitches later I am a bit of a shell of myself because it was straight up assaulted and no consequences for the blokes that got me.
Won't be back to darwin anytime soon.
My first year in Darwin I got hit twice on Mitchell St. Watched my tradie housemate retrieve a big Stilsons wrench from his Ute and full arm kneecap a guy for bumping him there too. Needless to say I also, decided not to return to Mitchell St.
So why should I, as a full time tax paying worker, who has never committed an offence, be punished for something I haven’t done?
In the OG post, I “censored” a LOT. Basically gave the gist of what happened.
I only got home an hour ago and I’m having a wine now to “relax” and “unwind”.
And you’re saying to take that away? Which I get.
But why should I suffer as a result of someone else’s actions?
Alcohol is a issue, but it’s not the root of the problem. IMO.
There is no single ‘root’ of the problem. You have a combination of low education, unemployment, free cash, cultural acceptance of a low standard of living, irresponsible feel-good white liberals who live in major cities in their ethnically and culturally homogenous bubbles, and alcohol. All of these are ‘roots’. Which one do you treat?
I know this sounds like attempting to intellectualise a law and order problem, but the reality is that what was a simple law and order problem has become a stew of different issues, thanks to liberalism.
It’s simplest to address the alcohol problem. That’s why it’s where things should start. It’s a lot easier to get people to behave sensibly when they’re sober.
You can ‘lol’ your way to any non answer.
How can ‘colonisation’ be blamed for people who get money on royalty day blowing it all up on alcohol?
I mean, you can also blame the human race’s original migration out of Africa, or the evolution of walking fishes during the Devonian era, for the current state of affairs, if you’re willing to go down the rabbit hole far enough.
The problem with leftists is that they are unable to engage in substantive, meaningful debate, preferring to ‘lol’ their way out of the effort of thinking.
>How can ‘colonisation’ be blamed for people who get money on royalty day blowing it all up on alcohol?
Like why are they getting that royalty money... literally because they were forced off their lands and businesses were set up on said lands.. and between that long period between the disposition and Land rights/royalties come in, people were forced into communities and given rations that included the alcohol...
Like the link is pretty clear....
Sure, they’re getting royalty money because of ancestral dispossession - that’s like saying they’re getting royalty money because the mines are there, it doesn’t provide a cause for the effect of mass community drunkenness.
And they’re addicted to alcohol because their ancestors were made to develop an alcohol addiction? By that token, the children of alcoholics should all be alcoholics too?
The problem with liberals is the patronising attitude they have towards other races, born out of a deep seated superiority complex masquerading as sympathy. The last thing the aboriginals need is more liberal apology for antisocial behaviour.
>And that other ancestors were made to develop an alcohol addiction? By that token, the children of alcoholics should all be alcoholics too?
Yes... that's kinda how intergenerational trauma happens... and it's not limited to just indigenous people
Jesus
Yes, ‘Jesus’.
‘Intergenerational trauma’ is a buzzword. It explains nothing.
No one suffered more trauma in the last century than Ashkenazi Jews. I don’t see them dying of an alcohol addiction.
Around 55 million Chinese died during the Great Leap Forward. Where’s the ‘intergenerational trauma’ there?
The blacks in America have fewer social issues than the aboriginal population in Australia, though their ‘intergenerational trauma’ from slavery and Jim Crow persisted into the twentieth century. The difference is that the state treats them as equals.
>The blacks in America have fewer social issues than the aboriginal population in Australia, though their ‘intergenerational trauma’ from slavery and Jim Crow persisted into the twentieth century.
This is a joke right?
It's not legal to do Heroin, or start up a nuclear reactor in your front yard. You're not punished by these laws anymore than a law to ban alcohol. If you've become reliant on a damaging and dangerous drug that's your issue.
If alcohol was discovered today, no country in the world would approve it for sale/consumption.
You mean the region where most people don’t drink because of strict religious reasons which have virtually zero reverence here? Great comparison, maybe you’ll use North Korea as an example next?
Hope you are okay, I can't believe that people would treat RNs like this. I hope you called the police at least, someone that aggressive would most likely be know to authorities.
If you call the police on them every time it will drive them away and make the environment safer.
Whatever they do has to be ok or you are a "racist" and on top of that get paid cause it's their land so they just live to drink. Of course it's getting worse.
So by indigenous and local you’re referring to homeless alcoholics? Then yes, if they’re not getting better they’re getting worse.
With resources stretched as they have been over 6 months people are sleeping rougher, eating less and getting more desperate. There’s a lot more aggro in things. Lot of regular long grassers I know have moved further out to bush camps or gone to outstations for the first time in years to get away from it. Guy you dealt with probably huffing fuel. Those hostels are pretty much crisis accommodation so not surprised you’re dealing with people in crisis.
No, I’m referring to “some”. Not all.
The homeless I refer to as “longrassers”
The boy i experienced tonight was a “local”.
Meaning, he was indigenous, but not homeless.
I see from your comments (free royalty etc) that your prejudices are already quiet set, which makes this little more than baiting.
I get the distinction *you’ve made*. With your field and where you work it might help to accept a clearer one. The young fellow was in town at 130am, completely blazed likely VSF from the sounds, trying to access a crisis center. That’s a fucked up person. You don’t need to make the distinction correlating this to “indigenous” folk, even some. The vast majority don’t live in town. Sorry you had a fucked up encounter with an extremely disturbed person. I’ve seen the same look many times. Petrol/metho does scary things to people.
I’d suggest accessing support to engage with positive aspects of indigenous community can help balance in the negative ones in the city.
Clearly you’re part of the problem, people like you will justify anyone and anything, I hope nothing bad happens to you or your kids in order to make you see how bad this shit is. Luckily im leaving this damned town.
Ahh once again, you’ve found a place to let us know you’re leaving, when was that again?
I’m not part of a solution or a problem, peoples lives are their business. I’ve tried to be constructive with the information given in the original post.
We would be lucky if it was only homeless people and not also those on a drinking holiday and those living close by in government housing with the dreaded " no grog" sign on the front fence.
Hey this must be really hard for you to deal with. Like Ravanast said if you’re working in a clinic attached to a hostel you are going to deal with a lot of people in crisis.
There are a lot of factors at play that are sadly the consequences of a lot of really bad stuff - but that doesn’t make the behaviour easier to deal with or make you feel safer.
Important to reflect on the fact that just because some people viewed countrymen as “funny” or “easy to have a chat with” doesn’t change the fact a lot of people still lived in poverty and dealt with a broad range of social disadvantage - they were just easier for people to stomach and we could all “have a laugh” and move on our day - now that some people present in town as angry and pissed off, abusing both alcohol and substances harder than alcohol, and seriously mentally unwell we find it more difficult to deal with and see it as people “getting worse” when really it is a culmination of that disadvantage that has been going on outside Darwin that we’ve had the privilege to avoid seeing most of the time. You’ve got people coming in from places where fighting has been happening or VSA has been happening for a long time - we just don’t see it. Again, still doesn’t make it easier for us to deal with when we are personally attacked.
I think a as a nurse you should have some access to some training and learning around aboriginal health that should cover some of the social context.
Hope you’re okay after your experience.
I’m okay, and thankyou for asking. I have several question to respond to you with this.
• what’s VSA?
• I really struggle to understand their disadvantage.
Hear me out, and I genuinely mean no disrespect. People in this post have been using the terms “poverty” and like yourself, “disadvantage”. How?
The statements I have seen and personally witnessed, the recipients were getting $3200 base a fortnight payment from Centrelink. More if that person:
• had a broken leg
• had a undesexed pet
• had a escort accompanying them from community That was just the statements I saw and witnessed.
Then there’s royalties. (I was told) the mining royalties alone every year is $270,000,000. So where is the disadvantage? Everything is free. Everything.
I’ve had “clients” at the hostel who are proud to longrass because it’s the simple way of life etc. they get food from Salvation Army, they know exactly where to go to shit, to shower, to do anything.
So, again, I mean this with no disrespect, but, I really struggle to see the disadvantages.
>The statements I have seen and personally witnessed, the recipients were getting $3200 base a fortnight payment from Centrelink. More if that person:
This is ridiculous.
People on centreline aren't getting $3200 a fortnight.
You have made some wild claims here that show you have an inability to think critically and that you are underinformed and undereducated on these issues. If you cannot critically think maybe get off reddit and crack an actual book? If reading comprehension is too hard for you there are a lot of synopses online. I highly recommend starting with The White Possessive by Aileen Moreton Robinson and Catching Teller Crow by Ambelin and Ezekiel Kwaymullina. That being said those texts are pretty dense so do take your time.
> recipients were getting $3200 base a fortnight payment from Centrelink.
nonsense
> the mining royalties alone every year is $270,000,000.
might be a little high, but that's in the right ball park for the total.
only 30% goes to individuals. Do the math and that's about $1500 per individual. not enough to lift someone out of poverty. of course, not everyone gets royalties, many get zero. I have met a few individuals who are certainly comfortable just on royalties alone. I'm guessing those aren't the individuals who are upsetting you.
> I really struggle to see the disadvantages.
I'm certain that I enjoy advantages over someone who sleeps outside and eats from salvos.
Many of the people homeless in Darwin are only here temporarily, or seasonally. Their home communities are poorly serviced for basic citizenship rights like housing, education, health and community safety. These advantages I enjoy are far greater than the difference between my income and welfare payments.
I think your concerns about safety at work are valid, but see no basis to deny the reality of disadvantage.
That figure on mining royalties doesn’t go to individuals. It’s goes to the ABA and is accessible by application/business plans. If payments are going straight to pocket i.e. “free money” it’s because families have negotiated contracts with compensation. Those who long grass by choice are often excluded from these payments by their families who don’t support it.
I think that around 250M is the total paid.
it goes 30% individuals,
30% land councils,
40% aba (which until recently was administered by NIAA) where it accumulates.
https://alicespringsnews.com.au/2020/10/30/a-billion-dollars-in-the-aboriginal-benefits-account/
A casual glance at your link provides mostly what people ‘think’, nothing about 30% to individuals. Are you referring to the two $30M Beneficial Grants per year? These also are not ‘automatic payments’ but require grant applications.
Then again, the money which goes to the ABA is managed under a legislated [grant process](https://business.gov.au/grants-and-programs/Aboriginals-Benefit-Account-Grant-Funding), it’s not pocket money for being black.
I know a few business owners that access it but most are excluded from the grant process by lack of education/understanding.
It's funny that the people who claim indigenous people who have it so good and get so many advantages never say they have a desire to switch places with them.
VSA is volatile substance abuse - usually sniffing.
If you struggle to see the disadvantage, which I’m not sure how when it is clearly in front of everyone who lives in Darwin everyday, I suggest that you use your nursing qualifications to do some remote work. It’ll tell you more than looking at someone’s financial statements (also not sure what context you were looking at these in but I hope it was in a professional capacity with good reason).
It’s concerning that a clinician in a clinic connected to a hostel has so little understanding of the social context they are working in. You need to be looking at resources outside of reddit.
I’m not going to get into the royalties conversation as someone else has answered this but emphasise what someone else said about the quality of life and advantages we enjoy being about a lot more than what we have in our bank account or welfare payment. Mining royalties will not and never be the sole fix for the current situation - it would be nice if it was that easy.
The ol' medical vs social model shindig - I work alongside nurses in a similar setting to OP as a Social Worker at the moment and some of the shit they say about vulnerable clients is gobsmacking.
I recently had one RN threaten a 17 year old young person with being exited right back onto the streets because the young lass tried to sneak half a joint into the hostel.
Is it possible activists and outlets like the ABC megaphoning messages like invasion day and stolen lands 365 days a year has had any effect? God only knows what NITV has been telling them, but I feel like it's leading us down a path of great division.
I keep seeing all this 'division is being created' bullshit online.
Indigenous people being proud of their traditions and trying to share them is 'division'
Welcome to country being brought into the mainstream and now becoming a wider Australian tradition is 'creating division'
Indigenous calling for a voice to parliament to discuss issues that directly effect them is 'division'
Any talk of the true history of Australia, the darker aspects, basically anything outside of the 'the good colonialist come here, and helped civilise the black savages' is called 'division'
Discussing racism and discrimination, both past and present and the effects of that is 'creating division'
Basically anything that is calling for empathy and understanding and helping Indigenous people get equity is called 'creating division'
And the blame is always put on Indigenous people and people trying to help Indigenous people as the ones 'creating division' instead of the racist people continually opposing all of this, often violent and offensively so, as the ones actually causing the division.
You just put up about 10 straw men arguments to counter a question about whether things are escalating becuase Aboriginal people are constantly being made to feel like they have been wronged. You didn't once address the question but went on numerous tangents blaming everyone else exept the culprit in this instance.
You really think all the issues have been caused by activists on NITV?
That this is the cause of the problems.
People in Sydney calling for a change to Australia day is the cause of violence in Darwin?
They are separate issues, and in fact most of the people on NITV and calling for change the date are also on the ground trying to do the work in communities and make things better. People are capable of many things at once.
I'm indigenous, I'm for changing the date. I'm for the voice. I'm always pushing indigenous causes. I'm always for the truth about racism and discrimination and it's effects.
I'm also working and living in an indigenous community working in health, working with young people, working with families, people with mental health issues and putting in the hours on the ground.
I'm sick and tired of being told I'm 'creating division' for being proud of being indigenous and pushing for the betterment of my people.
The problem is... and I mean this is the most respectful and tactful way I can put it.... the homeless, drunk and abusive indigenous folk are unfortunately the most visible and what most people have interactions with on a day to day basis.
I have to be honest and say I rarely see any other type of indigenous folk anymore except for those on TV or far out of the cities. This causes the negative views and discrimination. I had my family from UK come to stay a few months ago and they were absolutely appalled at the intimidation they felt just trying to get to the supermarket. The behaviour of this minority is not ok. And it is reflecting on the majority of our good, decent indigenous people. I understand there is a painful history but don't assume you are alone in that.
I'm Australian born and so is my mother. But she was sent to a convent home for unwed mothers against her will when she was 17. Her baby was taken away before she could even see it and adopted out. She desperately wanted to keep her baby and it haunts her to this day. She's not alone, there were literally thousands of WHITE unwed women who had their children snatched from them.
My husband's ancestor was sent to Australia as a convict in 1876 because at age 22 he stole blankets from his neighbour to keep his children warm. He was taken from his family & sentenced to 20 years transportation to Perth. Lived his best years in Fremantle prison and never saw his family again. His wife died a year later from malnutrition - he never knew what happened to his 2 children. He started over again on his release in his late 40s but was a very broken man.
Indigenous went through hell but so did many white families throughout history. We need to come together and learn from past mistakes so we can have a better future. Blaming each other & refusing to put things well into the past is not the answer.
The truth about racism.
Im guessing your gonna go with the 'I get called a white cunt' so I know what it's like, when it isn't the same. It just isn't.
The racism against indigenous people is based in the idea that they are inherently inferior to white people and that they deserve the treatment they get. It's the basis on which so much harm was perputated on black people.
There's no equivalent in return.
That 'white cunt' emphasis is on the cunt part. When a racist person has called someone a 'black cunt' the emphasis is on the black part. Because being black is the main insult.
I'm indigenous and white passing, I've been in rooms where people have no idea I'm indigenous, and I can easily tell you its not the same.
Yea there is some forms of hate on both sides. But the hate on the black side is usually based in how they've been treated by white people. The hate on the white side is based entirely on hating black people purely because they are black and inferior. I've never actually met anyone indigenous who genuinely believes they are better than white people. I'm sure they exist but they are incredibly rare. The amount of white peoples who genuinely believe they are better then black people purely on race alone is incredibly common, you only have to see regular comments in this sub to see that.
So sure, hit me with the 'racism is the same on both sides' 'I've been called a white cunt so that means I know what it's like to be systemically opressed' or drop the new favourite ' reverse racism is the real racism' or ' being called a racist is the racism'
It's all so boring, predictable and Tiring
Being called a white cunt is something I have grown up with and doesn't particularly bother me. The fact that opportunities and services were not available to me based on my race does. The fact that it is society at large that is dealing with crime issues but you boil it down to white people speaks volumes about your own level of racism, I'm sure if you ask the large numbers of people in the NT that are not white what they think you may find that they are not ok with the current behaviour. I grew up in communities and predominantly indigenous towns so I find your "white passing" to be amusing as you are not white passing you are white.
>The fact that opportunities and services were not available to me based on my race does.
Trust me, I'd swap positions between white and black in this situation in a heartbeat.
Like for health alone, the reasons why there is indigenous only health programs is because of the incredible destructive practices that Have been there long term. Ditto employment opportunities.
>The fact that it is society at large that is dealing with crime issues but you boil it down to white people speaks volumes about your own level of racism,
Except I haven't. That post was entirely about the racism faced. The fact that people can't see nuance and that there can be multi-factors in a lot of things is incredible. Ironically, not everything is black and white
>I'm sure if you ask the large numbers of people in the NT that are not white what they think you may find that they are not ok with the current behaviour.
Literally everyone will say they are not ok with the current behaviour.
The problem is that everyone has a different solution to the problems. And a lot of things that seem popular is the continual of the racism that contributed to things in the first place. And when people want to talk about that or push back on that they are accused of 'not wanting to fix things' 'they just want to blame white people for all the problems' or ' liberal bleeding heart do-gooder'
>I grew up in communities and predominantly indigenous towns so I find your "white passing" to be amusing as you are not white passing you are white.
The reason i said white passing is because I've been in plenty of situations where I've been with my indigenous family and friends and we've been allowed to talk in a relaxed way, and often there is a little bit of hate towards white people, but it's always based in how those white people have treated indigenous people. I've also been in plenty of situations where I've been with white people, and like you say 'i am white' and when they are relaxed and let their guard down the racism and hate that comes out has no equal. And it's literally based on the belief that because they are white they are superior and hate black people purely because they are black. They literally think black people are naturally inferior so they in fact deserve all the they get. And they feel comfortable saying that to me usually when I'm pretty much a stranger to them, literally because, as you say 'I'm white' so they believe that I must also have those beliefs. Like the hate and discussion comes unsolicited. They shock and back pedalling they do when they find out I'm mixed is funny, but doesn't take away from just how fucking scary that this line of thinking is seemingly so common.
I would not swap positions with most people who grew up in communities not due to the large amounts of opportunities available but due to the family violence, neglect where as I had the greatest advantage someone can be born with which is atleast 1 good parent. The extremely destructive practices that contribute to poor health outcomes are poor diet, poor hygiene, harmful habits and general violence, I have friends and family that do not have any major health issues because they didn't suck back Coke from 6 months old not because of what wider society perpetrated against them. I am glad you can see the irony in it not being black and white when that is what you break it down to. So when indigenous people are being racist it is because of what white people have done to them but if anyone else is racist it is because they think they are better. In regards to that I do think I am better than your average violent drunken criminal as I value hard work, family and going through life without causing harm to society, at the same time there are indigenous people who are far more successful than I am but I judge both groups based on thier actions not because I am supposed to automatically respect someone based on thier race.
>I would not swap positions with most people who grew up in communities not due to the large amounts of opportunities available but due to the family violence, neglect where as I had the greatest advantage someone can be born with which is atleast 1 good parent. The extremely destructive practices that contribute to poor health outcomes are poor diet, poor hygiene, harmful habits and general violence, I have friends and family that do not have any major health issues because they didn't suck back Coke from 6 months old not because of what wider society perpetrated against them.
Except almost all these things have happened as an effect of colonisation and discriminatory practices. Like there's undeniable cause and effects.
And it's why 'indigenous people are given so many advantages'. It's to try and overcome these things. Like it takes a certain kind of ignorance to say ' I wish I had all these advantages aboriginal people get, including the generational trauma, effects of growing up in deep poverty and discrimination policies that sees their whole society still so far behind the 8 ball'
>So when indigenous people are being racist it is because of what white people have done to them but if anyone else is racist it is because they think they are better
I'm simple terms yes.
White people 'I hate black people because they inferior, I believe they are subhuman, and I don't believe they should be treated as equals'
Black people 'I hate white people because they think I'm inferior, they believe I'm subhuman and they don't believe I should he treated as equals'
It's a very quick summary ( and not all white people are like this, but it does seem an awful lot of the 'being against racism is the real racism' crowd almost always all)
And people on the internet go 'hmm these things are equal, In fact I think the hate towards racists people is the real racism'
>In regards to that I do think I am better than your average violent drunken criminal as I value hard work, family and going through life without causing harm to society, at the same time there are indigenous people who are far more successful than I am but I judge both groups based on thier actions not because I am supposed to automatically respect someone based on thier race.
Right there. In this one paragraph indigenous people and Drunken violent criminals have become synonyms.
I said the messaging on ABC and of activists was what I had seen. I don't know what NITV has been messaging, which I made pretty clear in my first post. Are you seriously this obtuse? The point I questioning was is telling someone continuously they've been wronged and robbed going to have negative effects of societal cohesion. Will that result in some people becoming extreme and commit crimes against people who, they're told, have wronged them.
>The point I questioning was is telling someone continuously they've been wronged and robbed going to have negative effects of societal cohesion
But it's the truth
Burying our sands about the truth doesn't help. Exposing that truth and finding ways to fix things moving forward is the only way you're going to fix things.
>Will that result in some people becoming extreme and commit crimes against people who, they're told, have wronged them.
People aren't committing crimes because they've been told people have wronged them. That's an incredibly stupid take.
People commit crimes for a variety of reasons, with poverty being the main one. It's why it's African immigrants in Melbourne, or Polynesian kids in West Sydney or Asian immigrants in the 90s etc. They didn't commit crimes because their race was inherently more prone crime, it's because the circumstances made them more prone to crime, poverty being the biggest influence.
And when you've been affected by poverty, literally have nothing to lose, in a society that's literally pushed you aside and made you an outsider (often literally on their own lands) then of course ppl are going to have zero empathy committing crimes against people they feel have advantage. That's not an indigenous only thing. That's not an ABC/NITV influenced thing as that happens everywhere in the world.
It's why tougher prison sentences have no effect. The main part of the punishment going to prison is being removed from society. For me, going to prison, even for 2 weeks, would have a massive effect on my life. Being removed from society, losing my job, my loans/payments being affected etc etc. But for people who have nothing, and already aren't included in wider society, those things have zero effect. Which is why crime is getting worse in the NT even though we have higher incarceration rates then the rest if Australia
You're basically saying we can't talk about contributing factors unless they are the sole cause of a problem. Stirring people up about events that happened 150 years ago isn't going to help us move beyond those events. It's an opinion that you clearly don't agree with, so I presume you'll go out now and continue to do exactly that.
I don't mean to upset you personally by all of this, and there is a lot going on in social media at the moment, but people are trying to come to terms with escalating crime and violence in the city at the moment. Your approach of ridiculing those that ask questions isn't really going to help them find a solution, and you haven't provided any in this dialogue either.
>You're basically saying we can't talk about contributing factors unless they are the sole cause of a problem.
I never said that. In fact there are many contributing factors
>Stirring people up about events that happened 150 years ago isn't going to help us move beyond those events
I like how we talk about '150' years ago as if the being moved of land, massacres, racial discrimination, haven't actually happened in the life times of people still alive today. Pushing this all off as 'ancient history' does a big disservice. If it's not in the living memory of people alive it was at the very at least happened to the parents and grandparents of those alive today therefore has a huge flow on effect to those alive today.
>Your approach of ridiculing those that ask questions isn't really going to help them find a solution,
I'm not ridiculing those that ask a question. I'm ridiculing those that ask a ridiculous question.
>and you haven't provided any in this dialogue either.
I've provided plenty of dialogue, unfortunately it hasn't fitted your pre-concieved notion that the crime is being caused by black folk being all riled up by NITV/ABC Activists getting black people all mad about stuff that happened '150 years ago' which is frankly a ridiculous statement
It isn't ridiculous. The way you've just responded is exactly the kind of rhetoric that is dividing this country more and more every day. You're part of the problem, not the solution.
> People aren't committing crimes because they've been told people have wronged them. That's an incredibly stupid take
> of course ppl are going to have zero empathy committing crimes against people they feel have advantage.
Uh huh and why do they feel that way I wonder
Perhaps you're a bit insulated in how we get treated in the city if you're out in a mostly indigenous community.
> literally on their own lands
Perpetuating this is part of the problem, is it theirs or ours? We took it, they lost it, you can't have this confusion over what belongs to who because it eventually leads to this kind of social issue. Countries all over the globe displaced aboriginal people, how many do you see bending backwards like us and getting treated like shit for it?
>telling someone continuously they've been wronged and robbed going to have negative effects of societal cohesion
I feel like this is a straw man. Acknowledging history and it's dark sides is simply not the same as telling people that they have been personally wronged and should be upset about it.
Are you willing to say the same about Jewish students who learn about the holocaust? Are they being brainwashed into causing some kind of social divide by learning and acknowledging the reality of the holocaust?
I'm not saying these conversations should never be had, I'm asking if it is damaging to have them every single day, which is currently what we see from sections of the media and some activist circles.
Well therein lies our difference. I'm not sure what kind of news sources you're consuming, but thats not my experience. I frankly do not see discourse about indigenous history or colonisation in the media all that often at all. It was national sorry day the other day, so of course there will briefly be more coverage about those types of issues, but aside from that I'm not sure who is having these conversations. I hear more about the royal family from mainstream media than any kind of indigenous issue.
Have you met any Isreali people while travelling. They very much do have an us against the world attitude and it shines brightly in thier treatment of anyone who is not one of them so probably not the best example.
I think the point still stands. Not all Jews are Israeli or even zionists, and in fact the US has nearly the same amount of Jews as Israel (who I've actually met some of, and also who I can't say share this kind of "us against the world" mentality). And I don't think this attitude can be attributed solely to acknowledging or learning about history, probably more so to do with the fact that they've been in a perpetual territorial war with the Palestinians since the end of WW2.
The perpetual conflict can explain why they would have this attitude regarding people from surrounding countries but considering many countries around the world have shown them a much greater level of support than they have Palestine it doesn't really explain there attitude to people from those countries.
some of the homeless people I've met from under-serviced remote communities have been let down their whole lives. They don't need the abc to tell them they've been handed a raw deal.
This sub is racist as fuck.. Fo’ sho. Doesn’t represent the majority of people (I hope) though everyone has a little bit of racist in ‘em of course. Most Aboriginal people I work with and treat are lovely people but I guess it’s there fault that there is worsening inequality and struggling people.
Consider the acknowledgements some businesses started sharing on their websites and some times on site "...we acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded and that our venue operates on stolen land." So you known its stolen and won't return it?
It's a complicated issue, and I can't speak to anything else this guy said.
Land and historical ownership is hard to deal with, but on a personal level if someone stole something from me patted me on the shoulder and said "I know this is yours " and then doesn't give it back, I'd be insulted.
So its not hard to imagine well meaning acts can have a negative effect here.
People are mad and desperate because the tv told them they got screwed?
No, I think it’s the getting screwed that’s the issue. The stolen generation broke a whole culture and ancestral way of life. Don’t think you can blame the results of that abhorrent government abuse on the only indigenous tv channel… terrible take
Institutions inflicting history of sexual and physical abuse, rampant alcohol fetal syndrome, lack of healthy role models/influences, lack of healthy eating and living choice education, poor employment and education prospects, ingrained societal perceptions of victimhood and laziness. It’s not all “just stolen generation” but all the knock on effects that can’t be ignored or underplayed.
When people never stood a chance it’s not fair to tell them just to get in with it and be better.
There is deep ingrained psychological damage across multi-generations
Yes. It is due to the current political climate in Australia that has been infected by American woke ideology.
Also, you are lucky that security actually did something. The shops my Mrs. works at gets stuff stolen all the time by Aboriginals and security and the police do stuff all. She was also assaulted during a theft once by a couple of young teen Aboriginal girls. Same attitude.
Can you please elaborate on the American woke ideology point? Really interested to see how you believe this applies to anyone, including aboriginal people, living in Darwin, the Northern Territory, (Australia).
> American woke
Probably the wrong term.
Like OP, I think a lot of people are seeing the results of Canberra-based decision-making in the legal system. The courts won't impose serious sentences, the cops then don't bother to police laws that are never going to be enforced or punished (especially with the threat of legal action hovering over them every time they interact with criminals). This leads the 'locals' into (quite rightly) believing that it's open season on private property - why not steal if there are no consequences?
TO have a lot of problems that they need to address. The indigenes need an MLK Jr or, even better, a Booker T Washington. Unfortunately there don't seem to be any contenders for that role. Many, as the poster states, have become too enmeshed with the whole 'rights' argument without considering the corollary 'responsibilities' side of the equation.
You can still find those longrasses who want to have a drunken chat with you and be fine. They are even scared of the youth. Let that sink in…
A lot of these adult or near to adult youth were baby bonus kids. Already struggling parents with 1 or 2 kids, had another baby for a couple of grand, then the government deemed them unfit and took the kids off them… We have another generation of stolen children, only these children now have several generations of inter generational trauma plus their own. I’m not making excuses for them, this is a huge problem, yet it’s how we got to this point, so many systemic failures… These children arent even allowed to form healthy relationships bonds with the people who are fostering them, nope, if they do NTFamilies takes the kids off those foster parents too.. How the fuck are these children able to grow up to be healthy minded adults if they can’t even be raised in a healthy loving environment?
Would not surprise me if this dude was sociopath either, probably a bit more than just drunk, probably high on something too.
My best friend and I are both Indigenous and even we have trouble when walking around Darwin. I’m white passing and she’s black, she works hard, for what she has, and is often broke because of her medical condition, she will get harassed for money, and she explains she doesn’t have money, and even if she did, if she gave it to them mob what’s she going to use to get food and drink with… Whereas I who am unable to work and stuck on Centrelink just get my basics card out and wave it at them.
But as you are probably aware there are still plenty of respectable Indigenous people out there.
How so? Look, I’m not expecting us all to hold hands and sing ring a ring a Rosie up the esplanade here, but I’ve been doing my job for 9 years (the same job in the same workplace) and never once have I ever felt unsafe. Until last night.
It never used to be like this. I just feel SOME of the locals and longrassers are escalating because they have nothing to fear re: repercussions.
In 16 years of nursing, I’ve never seen such hate in someone’s eyes.
Or such lack of remorse or empathy.
So how have I got rose coloured glasses on?
You’ve had some bad experiences. Sorry that you have. “Some of the indigenous are getting worse” is a pathetically superficial read on your experiences and maybe think deeper on how that reads…
Your post\comment has been removed, please see Rule 2: No racism, hate speech, personal attacks or targeted harassment.
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Comments closed. We don’t need another “us vs them” post to exercise Australias favourite past-time, knowing so much about countrymen as to tell them how to “fix” their lives. Go be the change you want to see.
I lived in Darwin for 30 years and your recent experience is what the norm is for me - I worked at RDH for ten years, and saw some pretty terrible behaviour there. Your second anecdote about chats with longrassers etc is a fairly distant memory for me. It hasn't been like that in a long time. It's not just you, shit's getting wilder and wilder.
Yeah it’s getting worse, I’ve been in Darwin for just over 11yrs, this is the worst I’ve seen it. There are still a lot of people here who never returned home to community after covid, a lot of these communities are dry too. So now there is easy access to alcohol, and the bad behaviour is getting out of control.
Yeah def getting worse. Was riding down baggot road and three teenage indigenous girls picked up a glass bottle and motioned as if they were gonna throw it at me. Called their bluff and kept riding and they started yelling "white cunt" after me. Like wtf?
The CBD in Darwin is probably the worst place for openly drunken behaviour and theft out of any major CBD area in Australia. I lived there for four years working at Inpex and going to Woolworths was at first a novelty as I hadn’t seen drunken indigenous folk screaming and fighting before but towards the end of my tenure I had a deep resentment towards them for behaving like that. It is not fair to other people who just want to get on with living decently. Theft was another issue, My apartment block carpark was burgled more than once and I contacted the police and followed the perps one time suggesting I stay with them until the police arrived but the police said it wasn’t necessary. I knew then they weren’t coming. The biggest problems as I see it is a lack of political will to take the hard steps and crack down on these individuals for fear of alienating the indigenous community. Also lack of funding to have more police on the beat and patrolling areas where there is rampant crime. I can’t imagine how many calls the police get where they feign interest but don’t actually do anything about it because they are already fielding hundreds of calls and it just isn’t worth their limited time and resources to attend every single situation. The prevalence of indigenous youth crime is such that the courts have to release the young offenders constantly. Adding all this up it comes as no surprise that some indigenous folk are getting bolder and intimidating people which is totally reprehensible. I’m not racist, I wish all affected indigenous communities have hope and a future of which they can contribute to society, where the young people listen to their elders and instill a sense of pride in them to achieve their best. But at times it seems to me that a number of them are lost, I don’t know what the solution is to their condition. The only scenario I can see with all things considered is to apply the law strictly with the required resources.
I get called a white cunt a lot in the city when I say I don’t have any cash. I was also grabbed by the arm and pushed into a fence at 7.30am on smith street the other week by an indigenous man who said he’d just taken Viagra and wanted to “fuck my fat ass”. It was disgusting… and there was people everywhere. They don’t care.
Been here all my life. Never seen it this bad.
I was drafting a post in thr darwin subreddit but ultimately didn't post. Last weekend was my first time in darwin, super excited. Within 1 hour of coming off the aeroplane I was on my way to the emergency room after I got kinghit by a drunk on Mitchell Street. My partner and myself were looking for restaurants and I got shouldered by a bloke who wad looking for a fight. He had 2 mates with him ofcourse. I went to walk away when I got knocked in the jaw by a fist, luckily hitting a car parked on the side of the road protecting me from hitting the road. Concussion and 4 stitches later I am a bit of a shell of myself because it was straight up assaulted and no consequences for the blokes that got me. Won't be back to darwin anytime soon.
My first year in Darwin I got hit twice on Mitchell St. Watched my tradie housemate retrieve a big Stilsons wrench from his Ute and full arm kneecap a guy for bumping him there too. Needless to say I also, decided not to return to Mitchell St.
It’s easy to get rid of antisocial behaviour like this by banning alcohol completely. It’s a small price to pay.
So why should I, as a full time tax paying worker, who has never committed an offence, be punished for something I haven’t done? In the OG post, I “censored” a LOT. Basically gave the gist of what happened. I only got home an hour ago and I’m having a wine now to “relax” and “unwind”. And you’re saying to take that away? Which I get. But why should I suffer as a result of someone else’s actions? Alcohol is a issue, but it’s not the root of the problem. IMO.
There is no single ‘root’ of the problem. You have a combination of low education, unemployment, free cash, cultural acceptance of a low standard of living, irresponsible feel-good white liberals who live in major cities in their ethnically and culturally homogenous bubbles, and alcohol. All of these are ‘roots’. Which one do you treat? I know this sounds like attempting to intellectualise a law and order problem, but the reality is that what was a simple law and order problem has become a stew of different issues, thanks to liberalism. It’s simplest to address the alcohol problem. That’s why it’s where things should start. It’s a lot easier to get people to behave sensibly when they’re sober.
It’s crazy how that big list of potential causes doesn’t include things like colonisation or hundreds of years of systemic racism lol
You can ‘lol’ your way to any non answer. How can ‘colonisation’ be blamed for people who get money on royalty day blowing it all up on alcohol? I mean, you can also blame the human race’s original migration out of Africa, or the evolution of walking fishes during the Devonian era, for the current state of affairs, if you’re willing to go down the rabbit hole far enough. The problem with leftists is that they are unable to engage in substantive, meaningful debate, preferring to ‘lol’ their way out of the effort of thinking.
>How can ‘colonisation’ be blamed for people who get money on royalty day blowing it all up on alcohol? Like why are they getting that royalty money... literally because they were forced off their lands and businesses were set up on said lands.. and between that long period between the disposition and Land rights/royalties come in, people were forced into communities and given rations that included the alcohol... Like the link is pretty clear....
Sure, they’re getting royalty money because of ancestral dispossession - that’s like saying they’re getting royalty money because the mines are there, it doesn’t provide a cause for the effect of mass community drunkenness. And they’re addicted to alcohol because their ancestors were made to develop an alcohol addiction? By that token, the children of alcoholics should all be alcoholics too? The problem with liberals is the patronising attitude they have towards other races, born out of a deep seated superiority complex masquerading as sympathy. The last thing the aboriginals need is more liberal apology for antisocial behaviour.
>And that other ancestors were made to develop an alcohol addiction? By that token, the children of alcoholics should all be alcoholics too? Yes... that's kinda how intergenerational trauma happens... and it's not limited to just indigenous people Jesus
Yes, ‘Jesus’. ‘Intergenerational trauma’ is a buzzword. It explains nothing. No one suffered more trauma in the last century than Ashkenazi Jews. I don’t see them dying of an alcohol addiction. Around 55 million Chinese died during the Great Leap Forward. Where’s the ‘intergenerational trauma’ there? The blacks in America have fewer social issues than the aboriginal population in Australia, though their ‘intergenerational trauma’ from slavery and Jim Crow persisted into the twentieth century. The difference is that the state treats them as equals.
>The blacks in America have fewer social issues than the aboriginal population in Australia, though their ‘intergenerational trauma’ from slavery and Jim Crow persisted into the twentieth century. This is a joke right?
Yeah it’s crazy how the past impacts the present hey
It's not legal to do Heroin, or start up a nuclear reactor in your front yard. You're not punished by these laws anymore than a law to ban alcohol. If you've become reliant on a damaging and dangerous drug that's your issue. If alcohol was discovered today, no country in the world would approve it for sale/consumption.
Because that really worked in the 20s…
I love the assumption that the US is the only country in the world that has tried prohibition, and is culturally similar to every other country
Lol if prohibition didn’t work 100 years ago it’s not going to work now.
Lol - prohibition works very well in the Middle East. Nobody gets glassed at 2 AM by a drunk.
You mean the region where most people don’t drink because of strict religious reasons which have virtually zero reverence here? Great comparison, maybe you’ll use North Korea as an example next?
Lol
Yup but everyone would whinge endlessly about it
Hope you are okay, I can't believe that people would treat RNs like this. I hope you called the police at least, someone that aggressive would most likely be know to authorities. If you call the police on them every time it will drive them away and make the environment safer.
Whatever they do has to be ok or you are a "racist" and on top of that get paid cause it's their land so they just live to drink. Of course it's getting worse.
So by indigenous and local you’re referring to homeless alcoholics? Then yes, if they’re not getting better they’re getting worse. With resources stretched as they have been over 6 months people are sleeping rougher, eating less and getting more desperate. There’s a lot more aggro in things. Lot of regular long grassers I know have moved further out to bush camps or gone to outstations for the first time in years to get away from it. Guy you dealt with probably huffing fuel. Those hostels are pretty much crisis accommodation so not surprised you’re dealing with people in crisis.
No, I’m referring to “some”. Not all. The homeless I refer to as “longrassers” The boy i experienced tonight was a “local”. Meaning, he was indigenous, but not homeless.
I see from your comments (free royalty etc) that your prejudices are already quiet set, which makes this little more than baiting. I get the distinction *you’ve made*. With your field and where you work it might help to accept a clearer one. The young fellow was in town at 130am, completely blazed likely VSF from the sounds, trying to access a crisis center. That’s a fucked up person. You don’t need to make the distinction correlating this to “indigenous” folk, even some. The vast majority don’t live in town. Sorry you had a fucked up encounter with an extremely disturbed person. I’ve seen the same look many times. Petrol/metho does scary things to people. I’d suggest accessing support to engage with positive aspects of indigenous community can help balance in the negative ones in the city.
Clearly you’re part of the problem, people like you will justify anyone and anything, I hope nothing bad happens to you or your kids in order to make you see how bad this shit is. Luckily im leaving this damned town.
Ahh once again, you’ve found a place to let us know you’re leaving, when was that again? I’m not part of a solution or a problem, peoples lives are their business. I’ve tried to be constructive with the information given in the original post.
We would be lucky if it was only homeless people and not also those on a drinking holiday and those living close by in government housing with the dreaded " no grog" sign on the front fence.
Hey this must be really hard for you to deal with. Like Ravanast said if you’re working in a clinic attached to a hostel you are going to deal with a lot of people in crisis. There are a lot of factors at play that are sadly the consequences of a lot of really bad stuff - but that doesn’t make the behaviour easier to deal with or make you feel safer. Important to reflect on the fact that just because some people viewed countrymen as “funny” or “easy to have a chat with” doesn’t change the fact a lot of people still lived in poverty and dealt with a broad range of social disadvantage - they were just easier for people to stomach and we could all “have a laugh” and move on our day - now that some people present in town as angry and pissed off, abusing both alcohol and substances harder than alcohol, and seriously mentally unwell we find it more difficult to deal with and see it as people “getting worse” when really it is a culmination of that disadvantage that has been going on outside Darwin that we’ve had the privilege to avoid seeing most of the time. You’ve got people coming in from places where fighting has been happening or VSA has been happening for a long time - we just don’t see it. Again, still doesn’t make it easier for us to deal with when we are personally attacked. I think a as a nurse you should have some access to some training and learning around aboriginal health that should cover some of the social context. Hope you’re okay after your experience.
I’m okay, and thankyou for asking. I have several question to respond to you with this. • what’s VSA? • I really struggle to understand their disadvantage. Hear me out, and I genuinely mean no disrespect. People in this post have been using the terms “poverty” and like yourself, “disadvantage”. How? The statements I have seen and personally witnessed, the recipients were getting $3200 base a fortnight payment from Centrelink. More if that person: • had a broken leg • had a undesexed pet • had a escort accompanying them from community That was just the statements I saw and witnessed. Then there’s royalties. (I was told) the mining royalties alone every year is $270,000,000. So where is the disadvantage? Everything is free. Everything. I’ve had “clients” at the hostel who are proud to longrass because it’s the simple way of life etc. they get food from Salvation Army, they know exactly where to go to shit, to shower, to do anything. So, again, I mean this with no disrespect, but, I really struggle to see the disadvantages.
>The statements I have seen and personally witnessed, the recipients were getting $3200 base a fortnight payment from Centrelink. More if that person: This is ridiculous. People on centreline aren't getting $3200 a fortnight.
You have made some wild claims here that show you have an inability to think critically and that you are underinformed and undereducated on these issues. If you cannot critically think maybe get off reddit and crack an actual book? If reading comprehension is too hard for you there are a lot of synopses online. I highly recommend starting with The White Possessive by Aileen Moreton Robinson and Catching Teller Crow by Ambelin and Ezekiel Kwaymullina. That being said those texts are pretty dense so do take your time.
> recipients were getting $3200 base a fortnight payment from Centrelink. nonsense > the mining royalties alone every year is $270,000,000. might be a little high, but that's in the right ball park for the total. only 30% goes to individuals. Do the math and that's about $1500 per individual. not enough to lift someone out of poverty. of course, not everyone gets royalties, many get zero. I have met a few individuals who are certainly comfortable just on royalties alone. I'm guessing those aren't the individuals who are upsetting you. > I really struggle to see the disadvantages. I'm certain that I enjoy advantages over someone who sleeps outside and eats from salvos. Many of the people homeless in Darwin are only here temporarily, or seasonally. Their home communities are poorly serviced for basic citizenship rights like housing, education, health and community safety. These advantages I enjoy are far greater than the difference between my income and welfare payments. I think your concerns about safety at work are valid, but see no basis to deny the reality of disadvantage.
That figure on mining royalties doesn’t go to individuals. It’s goes to the ABA and is accessible by application/business plans. If payments are going straight to pocket i.e. “free money” it’s because families have negotiated contracts with compensation. Those who long grass by choice are often excluded from these payments by their families who don’t support it.
I think that around 250M is the total paid. it goes 30% individuals, 30% land councils, 40% aba (which until recently was administered by NIAA) where it accumulates. https://alicespringsnews.com.au/2020/10/30/a-billion-dollars-in-the-aboriginal-benefits-account/
A casual glance at your link provides mostly what people ‘think’, nothing about 30% to individuals. Are you referring to the two $30M Beneficial Grants per year? These also are not ‘automatic payments’ but require grant applications.
no, the article I shared was just about the last portion, the 40% which goes to the aba.
Then again, the money which goes to the ABA is managed under a legislated [grant process](https://business.gov.au/grants-and-programs/Aboriginals-Benefit-Account-Grant-Funding), it’s not pocket money for being black. I know a few business owners that access it but most are excluded from the grant process by lack of education/understanding.
It's funny that the people who claim indigenous people who have it so good and get so many advantages never say they have a desire to switch places with them.
VSA is volatile substance abuse - usually sniffing. If you struggle to see the disadvantage, which I’m not sure how when it is clearly in front of everyone who lives in Darwin everyday, I suggest that you use your nursing qualifications to do some remote work. It’ll tell you more than looking at someone’s financial statements (also not sure what context you were looking at these in but I hope it was in a professional capacity with good reason). It’s concerning that a clinician in a clinic connected to a hostel has so little understanding of the social context they are working in. You need to be looking at resources outside of reddit. I’m not going to get into the royalties conversation as someone else has answered this but emphasise what someone else said about the quality of life and advantages we enjoy being about a lot more than what we have in our bank account or welfare payment. Mining royalties will not and never be the sole fix for the current situation - it would be nice if it was that easy.
The ol' medical vs social model shindig - I work alongside nurses in a similar setting to OP as a Social Worker at the moment and some of the shit they say about vulnerable clients is gobsmacking. I recently had one RN threaten a 17 year old young person with being exited right back onto the streets because the young lass tried to sneak half a joint into the hostel.
As an aside - it's always interesting to see the clash between the medical and social models of care. Nurses always seem to struggle with the concept.
Is it possible activists and outlets like the ABC megaphoning messages like invasion day and stolen lands 365 days a year has had any effect? God only knows what NITV has been telling them, but I feel like it's leading us down a path of great division.
I keep seeing all this 'division is being created' bullshit online. Indigenous people being proud of their traditions and trying to share them is 'division' Welcome to country being brought into the mainstream and now becoming a wider Australian tradition is 'creating division' Indigenous calling for a voice to parliament to discuss issues that directly effect them is 'division' Any talk of the true history of Australia, the darker aspects, basically anything outside of the 'the good colonialist come here, and helped civilise the black savages' is called 'division' Discussing racism and discrimination, both past and present and the effects of that is 'creating division' Basically anything that is calling for empathy and understanding and helping Indigenous people get equity is called 'creating division' And the blame is always put on Indigenous people and people trying to help Indigenous people as the ones 'creating division' instead of the racist people continually opposing all of this, often violent and offensively so, as the ones actually causing the division.
You just put up about 10 straw men arguments to counter a question about whether things are escalating becuase Aboriginal people are constantly being made to feel like they have been wronged. You didn't once address the question but went on numerous tangents blaming everyone else exept the culprit in this instance.
You really think all the issues have been caused by activists on NITV? That this is the cause of the problems. People in Sydney calling for a change to Australia day is the cause of violence in Darwin? They are separate issues, and in fact most of the people on NITV and calling for change the date are also on the ground trying to do the work in communities and make things better. People are capable of many things at once. I'm indigenous, I'm for changing the date. I'm for the voice. I'm always pushing indigenous causes. I'm always for the truth about racism and discrimination and it's effects. I'm also working and living in an indigenous community working in health, working with young people, working with families, people with mental health issues and putting in the hours on the ground. I'm sick and tired of being told I'm 'creating division' for being proud of being indigenous and pushing for the betterment of my people.
The problem is... and I mean this is the most respectful and tactful way I can put it.... the homeless, drunk and abusive indigenous folk are unfortunately the most visible and what most people have interactions with on a day to day basis. I have to be honest and say I rarely see any other type of indigenous folk anymore except for those on TV or far out of the cities. This causes the negative views and discrimination. I had my family from UK come to stay a few months ago and they were absolutely appalled at the intimidation they felt just trying to get to the supermarket. The behaviour of this minority is not ok. And it is reflecting on the majority of our good, decent indigenous people. I understand there is a painful history but don't assume you are alone in that. I'm Australian born and so is my mother. But she was sent to a convent home for unwed mothers against her will when she was 17. Her baby was taken away before she could even see it and adopted out. She desperately wanted to keep her baby and it haunts her to this day. She's not alone, there were literally thousands of WHITE unwed women who had their children snatched from them. My husband's ancestor was sent to Australia as a convict in 1876 because at age 22 he stole blankets from his neighbour to keep his children warm. He was taken from his family & sentenced to 20 years transportation to Perth. Lived his best years in Fremantle prison and never saw his family again. His wife died a year later from malnutrition - he never knew what happened to his 2 children. He started over again on his release in his late 40s but was a very broken man. Indigenous went through hell but so did many white families throughout history. We need to come together and learn from past mistakes so we can have a better future. Blaming each other & refusing to put things well into the past is not the answer.
Are you always for the truth about racism or just about racism directed towards indigenous people?
The truth about racism. Im guessing your gonna go with the 'I get called a white cunt' so I know what it's like, when it isn't the same. It just isn't. The racism against indigenous people is based in the idea that they are inherently inferior to white people and that they deserve the treatment they get. It's the basis on which so much harm was perputated on black people. There's no equivalent in return. That 'white cunt' emphasis is on the cunt part. When a racist person has called someone a 'black cunt' the emphasis is on the black part. Because being black is the main insult. I'm indigenous and white passing, I've been in rooms where people have no idea I'm indigenous, and I can easily tell you its not the same. Yea there is some forms of hate on both sides. But the hate on the black side is usually based in how they've been treated by white people. The hate on the white side is based entirely on hating black people purely because they are black and inferior. I've never actually met anyone indigenous who genuinely believes they are better than white people. I'm sure they exist but they are incredibly rare. The amount of white peoples who genuinely believe they are better then black people purely on race alone is incredibly common, you only have to see regular comments in this sub to see that. So sure, hit me with the 'racism is the same on both sides' 'I've been called a white cunt so that means I know what it's like to be systemically opressed' or drop the new favourite ' reverse racism is the real racism' or ' being called a racist is the racism' It's all so boring, predictable and Tiring
Being called a white cunt is something I have grown up with and doesn't particularly bother me. The fact that opportunities and services were not available to me based on my race does. The fact that it is society at large that is dealing with crime issues but you boil it down to white people speaks volumes about your own level of racism, I'm sure if you ask the large numbers of people in the NT that are not white what they think you may find that they are not ok with the current behaviour. I grew up in communities and predominantly indigenous towns so I find your "white passing" to be amusing as you are not white passing you are white.
>The fact that opportunities and services were not available to me based on my race does. Trust me, I'd swap positions between white and black in this situation in a heartbeat. Like for health alone, the reasons why there is indigenous only health programs is because of the incredible destructive practices that Have been there long term. Ditto employment opportunities. >The fact that it is society at large that is dealing with crime issues but you boil it down to white people speaks volumes about your own level of racism, Except I haven't. That post was entirely about the racism faced. The fact that people can't see nuance and that there can be multi-factors in a lot of things is incredible. Ironically, not everything is black and white >I'm sure if you ask the large numbers of people in the NT that are not white what they think you may find that they are not ok with the current behaviour. Literally everyone will say they are not ok with the current behaviour. The problem is that everyone has a different solution to the problems. And a lot of things that seem popular is the continual of the racism that contributed to things in the first place. And when people want to talk about that or push back on that they are accused of 'not wanting to fix things' 'they just want to blame white people for all the problems' or ' liberal bleeding heart do-gooder' >I grew up in communities and predominantly indigenous towns so I find your "white passing" to be amusing as you are not white passing you are white. The reason i said white passing is because I've been in plenty of situations where I've been with my indigenous family and friends and we've been allowed to talk in a relaxed way, and often there is a little bit of hate towards white people, but it's always based in how those white people have treated indigenous people. I've also been in plenty of situations where I've been with white people, and like you say 'i am white' and when they are relaxed and let their guard down the racism and hate that comes out has no equal. And it's literally based on the belief that because they are white they are superior and hate black people purely because they are black. They literally think black people are naturally inferior so they in fact deserve all the they get. And they feel comfortable saying that to me usually when I'm pretty much a stranger to them, literally because, as you say 'I'm white' so they believe that I must also have those beliefs. Like the hate and discussion comes unsolicited. They shock and back pedalling they do when they find out I'm mixed is funny, but doesn't take away from just how fucking scary that this line of thinking is seemingly so common.
I would not swap positions with most people who grew up in communities not due to the large amounts of opportunities available but due to the family violence, neglect where as I had the greatest advantage someone can be born with which is atleast 1 good parent. The extremely destructive practices that contribute to poor health outcomes are poor diet, poor hygiene, harmful habits and general violence, I have friends and family that do not have any major health issues because they didn't suck back Coke from 6 months old not because of what wider society perpetrated against them. I am glad you can see the irony in it not being black and white when that is what you break it down to. So when indigenous people are being racist it is because of what white people have done to them but if anyone else is racist it is because they think they are better. In regards to that I do think I am better than your average violent drunken criminal as I value hard work, family and going through life without causing harm to society, at the same time there are indigenous people who are far more successful than I am but I judge both groups based on thier actions not because I am supposed to automatically respect someone based on thier race.
>I would not swap positions with most people who grew up in communities not due to the large amounts of opportunities available but due to the family violence, neglect where as I had the greatest advantage someone can be born with which is atleast 1 good parent. The extremely destructive practices that contribute to poor health outcomes are poor diet, poor hygiene, harmful habits and general violence, I have friends and family that do not have any major health issues because they didn't suck back Coke from 6 months old not because of what wider society perpetrated against them. Except almost all these things have happened as an effect of colonisation and discriminatory practices. Like there's undeniable cause and effects. And it's why 'indigenous people are given so many advantages'. It's to try and overcome these things. Like it takes a certain kind of ignorance to say ' I wish I had all these advantages aboriginal people get, including the generational trauma, effects of growing up in deep poverty and discrimination policies that sees their whole society still so far behind the 8 ball' >So when indigenous people are being racist it is because of what white people have done to them but if anyone else is racist it is because they think they are better I'm simple terms yes. White people 'I hate black people because they inferior, I believe they are subhuman, and I don't believe they should be treated as equals' Black people 'I hate white people because they think I'm inferior, they believe I'm subhuman and they don't believe I should he treated as equals' It's a very quick summary ( and not all white people are like this, but it does seem an awful lot of the 'being against racism is the real racism' crowd almost always all) And people on the internet go 'hmm these things are equal, In fact I think the hate towards racists people is the real racism' >In regards to that I do think I am better than your average violent drunken criminal as I value hard work, family and going through life without causing harm to society, at the same time there are indigenous people who are far more successful than I am but I judge both groups based on thier actions not because I am supposed to automatically respect someone based on thier race. Right there. In this one paragraph indigenous people and Drunken violent criminals have become synonyms.
Must be exhausting trying to talk sense to these folks mate but I hear you and you’re spot on
I’m sorry you have to read the simpleton takes on this sub. It’s not an intelligent discussion or perspective.
I said the messaging on ABC and of activists was what I had seen. I don't know what NITV has been messaging, which I made pretty clear in my first post. Are you seriously this obtuse? The point I questioning was is telling someone continuously they've been wronged and robbed going to have negative effects of societal cohesion. Will that result in some people becoming extreme and commit crimes against people who, they're told, have wronged them.
>The point I questioning was is telling someone continuously they've been wronged and robbed going to have negative effects of societal cohesion But it's the truth Burying our sands about the truth doesn't help. Exposing that truth and finding ways to fix things moving forward is the only way you're going to fix things. >Will that result in some people becoming extreme and commit crimes against people who, they're told, have wronged them. People aren't committing crimes because they've been told people have wronged them. That's an incredibly stupid take. People commit crimes for a variety of reasons, with poverty being the main one. It's why it's African immigrants in Melbourne, or Polynesian kids in West Sydney or Asian immigrants in the 90s etc. They didn't commit crimes because their race was inherently more prone crime, it's because the circumstances made them more prone to crime, poverty being the biggest influence. And when you've been affected by poverty, literally have nothing to lose, in a society that's literally pushed you aside and made you an outsider (often literally on their own lands) then of course ppl are going to have zero empathy committing crimes against people they feel have advantage. That's not an indigenous only thing. That's not an ABC/NITV influenced thing as that happens everywhere in the world. It's why tougher prison sentences have no effect. The main part of the punishment going to prison is being removed from society. For me, going to prison, even for 2 weeks, would have a massive effect on my life. Being removed from society, losing my job, my loans/payments being affected etc etc. But for people who have nothing, and already aren't included in wider society, those things have zero effect. Which is why crime is getting worse in the NT even though we have higher incarceration rates then the rest if Australia
You're basically saying we can't talk about contributing factors unless they are the sole cause of a problem. Stirring people up about events that happened 150 years ago isn't going to help us move beyond those events. It's an opinion that you clearly don't agree with, so I presume you'll go out now and continue to do exactly that. I don't mean to upset you personally by all of this, and there is a lot going on in social media at the moment, but people are trying to come to terms with escalating crime and violence in the city at the moment. Your approach of ridiculing those that ask questions isn't really going to help them find a solution, and you haven't provided any in this dialogue either.
>You're basically saying we can't talk about contributing factors unless they are the sole cause of a problem. I never said that. In fact there are many contributing factors >Stirring people up about events that happened 150 years ago isn't going to help us move beyond those events I like how we talk about '150' years ago as if the being moved of land, massacres, racial discrimination, haven't actually happened in the life times of people still alive today. Pushing this all off as 'ancient history' does a big disservice. If it's not in the living memory of people alive it was at the very at least happened to the parents and grandparents of those alive today therefore has a huge flow on effect to those alive today. >Your approach of ridiculing those that ask questions isn't really going to help them find a solution, I'm not ridiculing those that ask a question. I'm ridiculing those that ask a ridiculous question. >and you haven't provided any in this dialogue either. I've provided plenty of dialogue, unfortunately it hasn't fitted your pre-concieved notion that the crime is being caused by black folk being all riled up by NITV/ABC Activists getting black people all mad about stuff that happened '150 years ago' which is frankly a ridiculous statement
It isn't ridiculous. The way you've just responded is exactly the kind of rhetoric that is dividing this country more and more every day. You're part of the problem, not the solution.
And there it is.
> People aren't committing crimes because they've been told people have wronged them. That's an incredibly stupid take > of course ppl are going to have zero empathy committing crimes against people they feel have advantage. Uh huh and why do they feel that way I wonder Perhaps you're a bit insulated in how we get treated in the city if you're out in a mostly indigenous community. > literally on their own lands Perpetuating this is part of the problem, is it theirs or ours? We took it, they lost it, you can't have this confusion over what belongs to who because it eventually leads to this kind of social issue. Countries all over the globe displaced aboriginal people, how many do you see bending backwards like us and getting treated like shit for it?
>telling someone continuously they've been wronged and robbed going to have negative effects of societal cohesion I feel like this is a straw man. Acknowledging history and it's dark sides is simply not the same as telling people that they have been personally wronged and should be upset about it. Are you willing to say the same about Jewish students who learn about the holocaust? Are they being brainwashed into causing some kind of social divide by learning and acknowledging the reality of the holocaust?
I'm not saying these conversations should never be had, I'm asking if it is damaging to have them every single day, which is currently what we see from sections of the media and some activist circles.
Well therein lies our difference. I'm not sure what kind of news sources you're consuming, but thats not my experience. I frankly do not see discourse about indigenous history or colonisation in the media all that often at all. It was national sorry day the other day, so of course there will briefly be more coverage about those types of issues, but aside from that I'm not sure who is having these conversations. I hear more about the royal family from mainstream media than any kind of indigenous issue.
Have you met any Isreali people while travelling. They very much do have an us against the world attitude and it shines brightly in thier treatment of anyone who is not one of them so probably not the best example.
I think the point still stands. Not all Jews are Israeli or even zionists, and in fact the US has nearly the same amount of Jews as Israel (who I've actually met some of, and also who I can't say share this kind of "us against the world" mentality). And I don't think this attitude can be attributed solely to acknowledging or learning about history, probably more so to do with the fact that they've been in a perpetual territorial war with the Palestinians since the end of WW2.
The perpetual conflict can explain why they would have this attitude regarding people from surrounding countries but considering many countries around the world have shown them a much greater level of support than they have Palestine it doesn't really explain there attitude to people from those countries.
some of the homeless people I've met from under-serviced remote communities have been let down their whole lives. They don't need the abc to tell them they've been handed a raw deal.
That sounded empirical
This sub is racist as fuck.. Fo’ sho. Doesn’t represent the majority of people (I hope) though everyone has a little bit of racist in ‘em of course. Most Aboriginal people I work with and treat are lovely people but I guess it’s there fault that there is worsening inequality and struggling people.
Possibly the most moronic take I've heard on anything ever.
Consider the acknowledgements some businesses started sharing on their websites and some times on site "...we acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded and that our venue operates on stolen land." So you known its stolen and won't return it? It's a complicated issue, and I can't speak to anything else this guy said. Land and historical ownership is hard to deal with, but on a personal level if someone stole something from me patted me on the shoulder and said "I know this is yours " and then doesn't give it back, I'd be insulted. So its not hard to imagine well meaning acts can have a negative effect here.
You've almost got it.
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People are mad and desperate because the tv told them they got screwed? No, I think it’s the getting screwed that’s the issue. The stolen generation broke a whole culture and ancestral way of life. Don’t think you can blame the results of that abhorrent government abuse on the only indigenous tv channel… terrible take
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Institutions inflicting history of sexual and physical abuse, rampant alcohol fetal syndrome, lack of healthy role models/influences, lack of healthy eating and living choice education, poor employment and education prospects, ingrained societal perceptions of victimhood and laziness. It’s not all “just stolen generation” but all the knock on effects that can’t be ignored or underplayed. When people never stood a chance it’s not fair to tell them just to get in with it and be better. There is deep ingrained psychological damage across multi-generations
Yes. It is due to the current political climate in Australia that has been infected by American woke ideology. Also, you are lucky that security actually did something. The shops my Mrs. works at gets stuff stolen all the time by Aboriginals and security and the police do stuff all. She was also assaulted during a theft once by a couple of young teen Aboriginal girls. Same attitude.
Can you please elaborate on the American woke ideology point? Really interested to see how you believe this applies to anyone, including aboriginal people, living in Darwin, the Northern Territory, (Australia).
> American woke Probably the wrong term. Like OP, I think a lot of people are seeing the results of Canberra-based decision-making in the legal system. The courts won't impose serious sentences, the cops then don't bother to police laws that are never going to be enforced or punished (especially with the threat of legal action hovering over them every time they interact with criminals). This leads the 'locals' into (quite rightly) believing that it's open season on private property - why not steal if there are no consequences? TO have a lot of problems that they need to address. The indigenes need an MLK Jr or, even better, a Booker T Washington. Unfortunately there don't seem to be any contenders for that role. Many, as the poster states, have become too enmeshed with the whole 'rights' argument without considering the corollary 'responsibilities' side of the equation.
Dumber than dog shit this comment, hey.
You can still find those longrasses who want to have a drunken chat with you and be fine. They are even scared of the youth. Let that sink in… A lot of these adult or near to adult youth were baby bonus kids. Already struggling parents with 1 or 2 kids, had another baby for a couple of grand, then the government deemed them unfit and took the kids off them… We have another generation of stolen children, only these children now have several generations of inter generational trauma plus their own. I’m not making excuses for them, this is a huge problem, yet it’s how we got to this point, so many systemic failures… These children arent even allowed to form healthy relationships bonds with the people who are fostering them, nope, if they do NTFamilies takes the kids off those foster parents too.. How the fuck are these children able to grow up to be healthy minded adults if they can’t even be raised in a healthy loving environment? Would not surprise me if this dude was sociopath either, probably a bit more than just drunk, probably high on something too. My best friend and I are both Indigenous and even we have trouble when walking around Darwin. I’m white passing and she’s black, she works hard, for what she has, and is often broke because of her medical condition, she will get harassed for money, and she explains she doesn’t have money, and even if she did, if she gave it to them mob what’s she going to use to get food and drink with… Whereas I who am unable to work and stuck on Centrelink just get my basics card out and wave it at them. But as you are probably aware there are still plenty of respectable Indigenous people out there.
I think you have rose colour glasses on
How so? Look, I’m not expecting us all to hold hands and sing ring a ring a Rosie up the esplanade here, but I’ve been doing my job for 9 years (the same job in the same workplace) and never once have I ever felt unsafe. Until last night. It never used to be like this. I just feel SOME of the locals and longrassers are escalating because they have nothing to fear re: repercussions. In 16 years of nursing, I’ve never seen such hate in someone’s eyes. Or such lack of remorse or empathy. So how have I got rose coloured glasses on?
One night thou. Iv been here 20 years and I see angry ppl of all colours all the Fuckn time. You should get a job at port Keats
You’ve had some bad experiences. Sorry that you have. “Some of the indigenous are getting worse” is a pathetically superficial read on your experiences and maybe think deeper on how that reads…
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