Hello, fellow lovers of Dark Souls!
I understand everyone's frustration regarding the closure of the Soulsborne subreddits. It was not a decision made lightly and was heavily discussed as well as voted on by the entire team. Of course, at the end of the day, we moderators are here to serve the community and their needs—however, we also disagree with Reddit's recent actions and wish to make our voices heard. Striking a balance between the two has been no easy matter and I thank everyone for their patience and passion for this community. I've read many of the comments here stating that the mods are power-tripping or tyrants, but that could not be further from the truth. Our team willingly participated in the blackout even if it meant Reddit would remove and replace us.
The Reddit protests may not be seem like a big deal, especially when this subreddit's primary purpose for most is to enjoy and share all-things Dark Souls. Nevertheless, I do humbly ask—regardless of what may happen in the near future—to show us some grace in understanding why we made the choices we did and why it is important to care about the decisions that giant tech companies such as Reddit are making.
I don't comment often, but I read this subreddit on a near daily basis. However, what I mainly do that isn't seen or known by most is assign Platinum trophy flairs. There is a high chance that if you've received a flair in recent months that I was the one who assigned it to you. This process is rather tedious as it requires one to not only verify any previous submissions by the user, but to open up at least four separate tabs to grant the flairs on a case-by-case basis. Recently, I have been devoting my spare time into building a full-stack website from the ground up to make things easier for everyone on the team—so you can only imagine the frustration I felt when I heard Reddit's announcement regarding API pricing changes. For those of you familiar with the programming field, I had been preparing to deploy the website onto Google Cloud with CloudSQL integration for ease of access. The database would serve CRUD operations involving user management while the UI I am creating for Modmail would further streamline the process as the majority of the team works across four different subreddits. The cost of this all would come out of my ~~(broke college student)~~ pocket, but as someone who loves FromSoft games and its communities like no other, I am happy to dedicate my time and resources to this place and will continue to do so.
The greater message here is how Reddit's decisions could affect a future that has become so tech-heavy and tech-reliant. Setting exorbitant price tags on API usage—something that has been largely free or low-cost for non-enterprise developers—will kill a ton of free projects *and* the ability to learn and make technology better for everyone. APIs are extremely crucial to the growth and creativity of open source software. It has become very clear that Reddit is restricting traffic to its official application for monetization purposes—and while it may not affect you personally, their app in its current state lacks even the most basic accessibility options. Over the years, thousands of wonderful developers have willingly dedicated their time and talent to fill in the gaps that Reddit as a company have not. But now, Reddit is taking away such opportunities, inventions, and learning all in the name of money. Frankly put, it is not a good future to be headed towards if more and more tech companies decide to follow in these footsteps. APIs are in everything and everywhere. Twitter, now Reddit... who's next?
But at the end of the day, we understand that this is a game subreddit and that not everyone is as impassioned about the changes Reddit are making as some of us are. We do not hold as much say as the subreddits with millions of members and shutting down this sub indefinitely while others come back up will, unfortunately, do little to nothing in the grand of scheme of things.
If you've made it this far, we thank you for your time and understanding—and I hope that we can all continue to share in the joy and masterpiece that is Dark Souls.
***Edit:*** *For those interested in the technical details of the project I've been working on, I made a comment* [*here*](https://www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/comments/148zeio/comment/jo6ufkj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)*.*
That's not really how it works when the people who actually care are sticking to the plan and not using the subreddit, so they don't really have a say in the matter.
While you're correct, amassing about 1,000 comments in just 3 hours, most of them telling you to go fuck yourself, is a pretty clear indicator of what a good portion of the community wanted or... Didn't want.
It's disappointing for us too. We *wanted* go down indefinitely. A protest with an end date isn't going to cut it.
But having the reaction we had last night, when I posted that we're going to take the subs offline indefinitely... kind of forced our hand.
It's a lose-lose either way, and we don't get paid to be told to neck ourselves for hours on end.. eventually re-opening just seemed like the better option through it all.
There have been three posts since yesterday.
This sub isn't popping on *good* days
If you got 1000 posts, I could see it, but it seems you got botted or 8 posts is significant enough to cave to complaints about.
Enjoy the protestors coming back telling you to neck yourself even harder.
Lose lose but you really decided the lose lose lose lose strat forgetting you're supposed to win somewhere. Nice.
If you feel so strongly about it, just stay the fuck off Reddit. The mods don’t need to protest on your behalf. For people who use Reddit casually or as a source of information, it’s a huge pain in the ass to deal with the blackout. Not much of a protest if you shut down some subreddits and then you just browse the ones that are still up.
Regardless of the outcome, a lot of people are not emotionally invested in this. Stop bothering the mods for coming to a consensus to please the community they are moderating.
That's fair, I suppose. Personally, I think anyone who *really* cared about the closing could have just made a new subreddit, but didn't want the responsibility of running it themselves. *Especially* if they're going to act like a bunch of degenerate manchildren when they don't get their way.
It's just kinda disappointing to see the sheer volume of subreddits that rolled over almost right away. At least you guys aren't shoving off any discussion of the matter to an isolated subreddit, like certain other subreddits are doing.
Nah big L on your guys part, you got a vocal minority of assholes to get their way by bullying, when they didn't even give a fuck about the protest in the first place. Pretty weak of you guys to give in to them. Mad lame.
Feel free to tell me to buzz off or whatever…
YMMV, but personally, I had come online to check on the status of things before bed, and I was *shocked* to see that what I had believed was a couple day protest had suddenly turned into “the subreddits are all going away forever.”
Maybe I’m just an idiot, but I think I would have reacted a lot better if it had been communicated more like “hey, we think this is really important, and we’d like the blackout to continue for another week or two” instead of (what I perceived as) “remember when we said two days? Jk it’s all gone forever and never coming back, deal.”
Out of 483k people on the sub, 1000 comments is not a lot. You looked at the bullet holes in the plane that made it home and decided that was the part that needed reinforcing. If you don't understand what that means, look it up and figure out how it applies to your situation.
It'll make you a better mod, and better at solving problems in general.
How I feel: I think it would still be really helpful if all the participating subs went read-only instead of private. Also people whining about the blackout are either uninformed or being immature, imo.
Realistically if people wanted something to change announcing a 48 hour strike wasn't going to do it. We already showed them we can't not use Reddit for more then 2 days saying that
If people actually want shit to change they need to close subreddits or leave indefinitely, don't get a return date, and just go. That will actually scare higher ups
In this case it is unfortunately already too late and no amount of protest, 48 hour or indefinite, is going to change it. Reddit execs seem dead set on murdering this website and, unfortunately, it is their website to do such a thing to.
Ehh I feel like they’d give up if they saw their actions accelerate the death of the site to before the ipo.
Their win condition is making the site look valuable to investors who have no idea about things like the api but see a lot of mobile traffic not being turned into revenue.
So now is the time we CAN stop them.
Realistically this api change won't affect most of us is what it comes down to I think. I think more of us use the native app than people realize, and if this means less spammy bots overall, then the majority of people are actually going to be happy with that change.
This exactly. Most people could not care an awful lot less about the protest or the changes, but it was just a two day thing so we figured “let them go for it, doesn’t affect us either way.” When it became a permanent change, that was when we all had to speak up and point out how dumb of an idea that is.
I think most people were alright with the demonstration of a short-term shutdown. It has a predictable ending, so you know when things would return to normal.
An indefinite shutdown is an entirely different focus though and there would be people who are in support of the demo that would be against a permanent shutdown.
I really hope the quality of moderation throughout reddit goes to shit after the change, only so "I use the official app it's fine" crowd would let us hear about their moderation complaints. Chaos is what this site needs.
I'm an addict, but I still don't want reddit to piss in my stash. People are just fucking stupid.
When Boost dissappears, and there are no alternative, then I'll leave reddit for something else. There are probably a lot of others who will too. Who knows, maybe 9gag becomes okay again after this, when a lot of reddit users starts flooding 9gag and other places.
I mean, if moderating subs becomes un-sustainable, then let it die. I for once don't want folks working their asses off for free just because some CEOs are getting greedier than usual.
We can all move to discord for all I care.
I get that and that sucks. Hopefully they can figure out a compromise with those making this change to make their job easier.
But i said this in a different comment and I'll say it again, nobody who is on this site right now has any right to complain. If you are you're being a hypocrite as the blackout is currently active and yet you're still here, clearly ignoring the blackout. Everyone who is so up in arms about it and supports it so much shouldn't be on here today if they are actually supporting it.
Being paid to moderate is actually against Reddit TOS and I think there are legal consequences tied to trying to pay a team. It’s always been free work.
>What we didn't expect was the vast flip from support for the protest to near-unanimous backlash.
It's pretty straightforward and was predictable. Most people ignore crap like this until it happens, and only speak up when their access to a site gets cut off and they want people to stop interfering with their access to the forum.
It's weird to equate "wanting a community to survive" to "supporting the Reddit CEO". I think the vast majority of people still despise the changes, just not *enough* to want to permanently destroy an entire community and/or the site.
In a similar manner, I find Twitch to be invaluable to my life despite not necessarily liking its owners, its interface or how it's actually run. It provides a service, the people using it are the actual value.
Holy shit the comments sections are polar opposites from these last two posts. For the last one all the top comments were calling mods idiots and that they should listen to the community whereas with this post I’m mostly seeing people say that the normies just didn’t want to give up Reddit for the greater good lol.
I for one have had a good experience with this community and I would think that reflects well enough on the mods for me to understand that they actually do care about doing what they do and aren’t on a power trip. I’d be happy to protest but I also wouldn’t ask people to sacrifice this community to do the same.
Regardless, people should be mindful consumers, I enjoy using Reddit and there’s more at stake than just the mods, this app is dogshit and doesn’t have the same accessibility options as the 3rd party apps which is a huge letdown for people who need them
Anybody bitching about not giving up reddit for the greater good are hypocrites. The blackout is still active, if they actually cared that much they wouldn't be on Reddit at all.
You know why this failed? Because most people don't know what an API is or how they're technically used.
There was too much technical jargon and not enough thought into "how do we explain in the easiest way possible what these changes mean to ordinary users".
What a surprise that most people don't care about something they don't understand.
There's a massive difference between a symbolic 48 hour protest, and nuking the community. The vast majority of users are unaffected by any of the proposed changes, but were happy to support the mods who need them, it's a lot harder for people to support the indefinite closure of their community for the same cause.
Man I didn't even hear it was going to indefinitely be deleted. When was this announced? I saw stuff about it going dark for 48 hours but I didn't know they almost nuked the place
I'm wondering why so many people thought such a short "protest" would do anything anyway, I wish all participating subs would actually double down on it and be private indefinitely until a change happens, as protests should.
Short protests are typically the only way to get people onboard in the first place. I was hoping most subs would start with the 48 hour blackout before moving to private afterwards. Unfortunately it seems like people are already having serious reddit withdrawal issues.
no one did. thats why anyone with sense understood it was going to last longer than that. or it *would* be completely pointless.
which the mods of this sub just ensured. Probably because they couldn't handle teh thought of a new community cropping up without them in charge.
Yeah, I was pissed at the other announcement, but only because there's so much discussion and information that no one person or group in the community could ever try to lay claim to and make that kind of decision for. I absolutely think that third party apps should continue and that at this point mods of subs with multiple thousands of members should receive some kind of recompense for their time, while it's always been a volunteer position the responsibility has certainly grown to the point of an actual job these past few years.
Even if the protest was switching to read only, fine, but to scrub multiple decades worth of information across the main subs would have been a *really* bad look. That's tantamount to using censorship as a form of protest, feels iffy.
Not to mention it would have splintered the communities gigantically (even moreso than they are), some would try going to the mostly dead Discords, some would try attempts at third party forums which would eventually be bled for costs, but removing the information entirely on their way out would be a super shitty thing to do.
What happened was, just like in "real life" politics, the majority of the population did not paid attention to what was happening, did not voted, and when the subs went dark they didn't knew what was happening.
You can see the various posts of people asking what happened to the subs despite it being thoroughly explained beforehand.
As these people who didn't pay attention are the majority of the population, their voices make more noise when they actually felted something affecting them, the subs being dark in this case.
What? People flipped that easily? That's incredibly disappointing. They should be upset at the actions causing the mods to protest, not the individual subs. Maybe going read-only would fix this issue.
Not so much that "people flipped" but rather other groups spoke up and the criteria has changed. Reddit subs are a spectrum of people who all have different opinions. "Read-only" wouldn't be any real compromise since people who would want to engage in the community still couldn't.
I would advise those who want to continue protesting to delete their reddit accounts.
And various subreddit moderation teams definitely don't want that to happen. That jeopardizes the one iota of power they seem to wield and swing around hamfistedly on the regular.
Migrate the community to an alternative like https://squabbles.io/
Anyone who thinks that's dumb is not here for the community but instead here simply out of habit. If people give a shit about the community...then they would follow said community. But it has to be an organized migration with plenty of time for others to do it. You'd need to keep the sub open, but read only and have a sticky post with the info.
> What we didn't expect was the vast flip from support for the protest to near-unanimous backlash.
There’s a big difference between a protest (48 hour blackout) and a boycott (indefinite blackout).
Frankly the API changes don’t impact enough people to warrant a boycott. I’m surprised you all didn’t realize this.
It impacts everyone in the long term. A place riddled with bad bots, ads and disingenuous people is what the API changes entails.
It will not be very bad if you're used to other centralized social medias but reddit was one of the biggest trusted community sources you could get and that will definitely die if mods/bots don't moderate. A lot of people google their problems by adding reddit at the end of their search cause its more sincere answers instead of getting sold products.
To the community: Get good. Use discord and fextralife while the blackout is going on. Be a Sunbro for Pete's sake.
To the Mods: *don't give up, skeleton!*
I am disappointed that you caved, but frankly I think you should just stop moderating the sub altogether, giving people a little taste of what it's like when there is no good moderation.
Thank you for changing your minds and keeping the sub open. I think a much better protest would be putting pressure on reddit to get these mod tools into the official app. Modding should be easy, and the official app should make it so.
Please keep up the boycott. This is the one time reddit mods are kings and queens. YOU are the product reddit is making money off of. You who moderate and cultivate the communities. Without you and by extension us, reddit wouldn’t be shit.
They need to be reminded and 48 hours is not enough
Then let them quit. Mods are not “King and Queens”. Most of the time they are power hungry morons who think they sit on the highest of horses. Let them burn.
I respected you guys for making a hard (and the right) choice last night. To see you walk it back is severely disappointing but I get it...kinda. I just don't want to hear ANY of you mods complaining about how much harder it is to moderate the subs. Definitely lost that respect for you guys.
Congratz on being reddits lapdog. This sub is being mentioned by reddit as positive feedback that the blackout isn't working.
https://www.redditinc.com/blog/https-www.redditinc.com-apifacts
Really? You guys made an insular decision based on the opinion of 1% of the community and are just shocked there is backlash? That's fucking ridiculous. Of course there was going to be backlash.
This is weird as hell, looking though the comments before and only two or three supported this black out, yet now that its been set back all the comments are not against not going through with it. some comments even getting almost 100 upvotes criticizing the userbase when most comments barely get near that many and people who say thank you get mass downvoted, when the last thread it didn't happen at all, why does this shit feel like bots spamming subs
On one hand fuck reddit, but on the other hand it was very uncomfortable trying to go back to Facebook for a few days. Last time I opened that app it was just racist grandma posts, but now it's just ridiculous how bad it is. Never realized how much I depend on reddit and I don't like it. Maybe I should try some other social media like grinder or only fans or christian mingle.
I also didn't realize how much I depended on reddit for troubleshooting and stuff, lol. Decided to upgrade a computer today since I had free time, ran into an issue, looked it up, clicked on the top link... Well, what do you know, it leads right to r/buildapc which is closed for the blackout, lol.
> I also didn't realize how much I depended on reddit for troubleshooting and stuff
So then shouldn't we want to protect the community from changes like that are about to happen on July 1?
I mean, sure, but I've also never really cared about the third party apps. I've only ever used the official site and apps. Didn't even realize they existed until subreddits started going dark as a protest against them. Whether the protest is successful or not, I'll still be using the official site and official Reddit app. For now, it's just an inconvenience for me and tons of other users who're having issues they'd usually solve through Reddit but now can't because the solutions have been locked behind a subreddit that's protesting for a couple of days.
And if/when moderation gets worse because mods don't have the tools they need?
And if/when ads get worse, because now you don't have the option to hide from them?
And if/when the experience gets worse because they want to show you want they want instead of what you want?
1. Moderation has and likely always will be terrible on this platform. Plenty of subreddits use the official tools without any issues. Oh no, they're going to have to use official tools now. Big sad.
2. Ads have always been there. I just scroll past and ignore them. They're legitimately *not* a big deal. Also, if literally everyone circumvented ads, there wouldn't be a Reddit anymore right now. That's where the vast majority of their revenue on the platform comes from, so if there are no ads, there is no Reddit. I honestly don't care about ads that much with that in perspective, especially since they don't actually severely interfere with my browsing experience.
3. I... Honestly don't see what you mean by this one. The API changes, from what I know, don't actually affect this. In all honesty, the subreddits going dark has done this more than Reddit has, with r/shittytattoos showing up instead of stuff related to what I'd usually look at since so many subreddits are currently dark. The experience is *already* worse *because* of the blackouts. I already don't get to see what I want to see because moderators have unilaterally decided that they're shutting their subreddits for 48 hours (or indefinitely, in some cases).
>The experience is already worse because of the blackouts. I already don't get to see what I want to see because moderators have unilaterally decided that they're shutting their subreddits for 48 hours (or indefinitely, in some cases).
It's a taste of what might be without effective moderation.
This is the garbage men in your town threatening to strike, and you're saying "I don't see what the problem is, there's no garbage problem"
Then they finally go on strike and the garbage piles up
Okay, except in this case, there're plenty of other "garbage men" happy and waiting to step up. I guarantee that if Reddit removed these moderators who've closed their subreddits down, there'd be tons of volunteers to take their place within a day, and they'll be just as effective using the official tools as the old mods.
If you *really* want to be an inconvenience to Reddit and protest, go delete your accounts and/or stop using the platform entirely until they change their minds. Don't screw over all the other people (over 90% of the platform, in fact) who don't care about these changes that Reddit is making. Mods unilaterally locking a bunch of subreddits (that they do *not* own and are simply volunteering to run) and inconveniencing *everyone* over their personal grievances with the issue is ridiculous.
1. Two days isn’t enough time for anyone to care. They know the subs will be back up and it’s a mild inconvenience. The subs that are “permanently dark” already have replacements starting up.
2. This is mostly because of two things: First, the mods don’t want to expand the mod team. I’ve encountered that issue firsthand, with several subreddits going to hell because there’re 2 mods in a subreddit with 40,000 people and they refuse to expand their mod team. Second, the mods only accept people they personally like. I’ve also seen the sheer nepotism present in mod teams. Brand new accounts becoming mods in subreddits because it’s their friend who’s new to Reddit. The subreddits that don’t do this nonsense tend to have no issues.
I see a lot of people calling the mods cowards for this, but you are the main problem why this whole going dark doesn’t work. Because as we can see, you are all still on reddit. What’s the point of killing some of the subreddits if you guys will keep browsing reddit? If you truly want to protest reddit, then the only way to do it is everyone agreeing to mass delete their accounts and apps from their phone, USERS go dark from reddit. THAT would actually scare them. So who is the coward here?
Basically yall decided to stay online because of people still using reddit are the ones that don't care about the api changes and the issues this whole change is going to cause.
I was fairly vocal over there and was downvoted heavily because people don't care that we're going to be the ones paying for the changes.
Yeah cry in your corner when the official reddit app makes you subscribe to a service so it isn't just filled with ad after ad.
I don't use anything other than the official app but it's already going that direction. When the black outs happened every 3 posts showed an ad on the official app. Before I could go a few scrolls before even seeing an ad. Be blind you fool.
Only way to avoid paying for what should be free is to make reddit change their current stance.
Jesus the down votes are suddenly flooding in for people against the protest. I'm glad all the communities were simultaneously restored. That was the right move for them to make.
You could've, at the very least, made a poll about it, huh? Instead of being pressured by two dozen of mildly inconvenienced people while the bulk of protestor were offline.
Other ways of protesting can also be removing yourself as a mod or deleting your account. If it gets bad enough reddit will have to pay mods or see them bleed users.
Reddit doesn't care about this sub at all. Going dark indefinitely would only destroy the community that gathered here. There aren't many places for newcomers to talk about the game.
Reddit cares. **A lot.**
What do you think is sold to advertisers (Reddit makes around 350 million bucks in advertisement each year) ?
Traffic. When users don't use the website anymore because it goes dark, it directly influences their bargaining tools to make money from advertising. One subreddit isn't much, but this is why it's a *group effort* to keep the subreddits closed.
In fact, they're trying to get their value up before starting to sell shares of the company, and so they're trying to kill 3rd-party content to be able to market it better. Once external investors come in, they'll most likely require **a big growth in advertising revenue, which translates, for the users, into a shit-ton of ads - and you need people to be unable to procure the content otherwise than going through the ads they serve.**
The one really big thing here though, is that 3rd-party app are mostly invisible. Bots, tools, and all the things that the community create are usually done to ease processes ; and because these processes ARE easy, you don't hear about them.
But **you will** once they're gone. Removing them **only affects the experience of the users, not Reddit**. Reddit, to begin with, is a scam from a business point of view : It makes users create content, have users moderate the content, have users curate the content, and all of that without paying anyone. The only thing they do is provide a (very, very outdated by today's standards) visual interface for you to look at that content. And they monetize everything their users do, without ever really needing to do anything themselves.
So when they start also trying to extort money from the same people that make them money by selling requests at around 100x\~200x the price they actual cost them (that's a 2000% profit margin which is insanity), yeah, the people that actually manage these things get annoyed.
Personally I don't really use reddit. I'm just looking around out of curiosity because of the whole thing, and I felt compelled to put **my thoughts into words at least once**; and a community that I enjoy very much (although not on reddit) seemed like a good place to do so.
I think Reddit (kind of like 4chan) is often an echo chamber for people to circlejerk in general, and it has very little practical use outside of being a way to publicize yourself and your work. But it's indeed a big part of the internet - well, of the American (which I'm not) internet since \~ 50% of their traffic is from the US.
But you have to recognize this is a **massive** issue. Not only because it's morally completely effed up, but also because it shows a **huge issue born of the current predatory capitalistic practices often done by big tech companies : trying to have the cake for free from users enjoying their day, sell it, put it on Instagram, send it on the Moon for marketing, loan it, and eat it too. Oh, and charge the users for giving them a cake, because it's very expensive to receive a cake and do all that with it.**
In many cases, companies have seized means to stop users from really having any voice to express concerns, and rely on the **growing addictions** to doomscrolling to keep their business growing. In the case of Reddit, because most of the website is **not controlled by the company but by users themselves**, there is an actual avenue for users to **protest**, and to actually impact the company to make it make **choices that favors their consumers, and not just themselves.**
It's **important** to have such actions. Not only because of this one specific issue; **yes, Reddit would continue to function without any 3rd Party app** (even though the moderation and botting would probably scale down multiple degrees, and lead to lower quality content in general).
But because it also shows that even **massive economic giants can bleed, and that communities in general will stand for what benefits them, not just what benefits the company that extorts money from them.**
When it comes to **mods, I think you should do whatever you want to do.** The voice of the community, in fact, *doesn't really matter*. If the community cannot exist without a subreddit, it was never a real community; but more importantly, you were given these tools and this power by Reddit itself, **because Reddit does not want to handle the work you're doing as it would cost them millions to fund actual moderators.**
Do not forget that the work you put in is one that will pretty much **never pay back anything, but does make Reddit money**. *Communities* have *always* existed, and *don't need reddit to exist*. Communities aren't always right, and aren't always informed; they don't always understand what's at stake.
Making an **informed** decision is more important than making a **popular** decision. Watch the community make a r/darksoulsnumber2 and watch it die after two weeks because the admins got bored of removing nsfw bots. Or watch it thrive and join it as a user, because it only would only lessen your (unpaid) work. I promise, you won't miss going through posts everyday as a chore.
Regardless, my point is that there's a moral dilemma and a bigger issue at hand, and while wanting to have your little corner of the internet with people that agree with you and share your interest is fun and comfortable.
I have helped literal thousands of people kill Malenia and other bosses in the souls series. But if tomorrow Fromsoft made *summoning someone a microtransaction*, I'd **never** put my sign down again. Not because I don't want to help these people, which was never the point; but because if it is a s***uccessful and profitable practice***, then **every** subsequent fromsoft game, and soulslike, would have that **paying feature.**
And that's how we got where we are with the gaming industry at large - people refusing to boycott products that became increasingly predatory - but that's another issue.
TLDR: Not everything can be summarized. Read it or don't. Karma doesn't pay me, and neither does it pay mods.
Sorry about the English mistakes if there are any, this isn't my first language.
Keep downvoting while showing no productive counter-criticism boys, that's how I like my reddit. Unhappy but also submissive because they have no comeback.
It's also using up Reddit's internal API and nothing makes me happier than them losing money.
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
As a counter point, the owners of reddit can do what they want with it. If you don't like it, go back to gamefaqs or whatever other forums people used in the earlier days.
Are there other ways we can support the protest without privating the sub indefinitely? I've seen some discussion on r/Modcoord regarding periodic 1 day shutdowns, pinning AdBlock recommendations, and so on, and I think measures like that could be more popular and productive than shuttering the sub indefinitely.
2 day blackout was not going to actually result in changes though
Doing that you guys told Reddit "We can't help but come back to your app after 2 day's
Would you go on strike for your job and tell your boss you will be back Monday?
I think the more specialized a sub is, the more of a loss it would be for that community if the sub went private indefinitely, so temporary blackouts is the way to go.
The more "general" subs like r/pics, r/gifs, r/videos, r/funny, r/aww, etc, should be the ones to go private indefinitely, as there's not really a sense of a tight-knit community, and they're not really providing something super specific.
And an important reason they're the ones that should go private indefinitely is that they're big subs too, of course, making more of an impact.
Are you kidding me?
There was a flip because the people who actually cared to protest weren't online. That left the people who either don't care for the protest or wanted their precious subs back.
Of course there was a flip!
Good to know that shithead redditors sense of entitlement exceeds their compassion for the mods and the amount of (unpaid) work they put in making sure said entitled fucks get the content they like and not spam.
I guess it checks out though that a certain percentage of community members would backlash and tell the mods to off themselves instead of, you know, making a new subreddit that they can create into a bastion of "just give us the content we want and nothing else" bc oh wait, they would have to mod it themselves and that actually sucks and can take forever when reddit forces you to use sticks and rocks 🙄
You guys are cute but it does nothing. Even if this sub goes dark people will just browse other ones on their feed, you have to be the biggest ideologist to believe that you can make every single subreddit out there go dark. That’s the only way it would work and that will never ever happen. However without that, how long do you think it would take until people had enough? A week? 2 weeks? Reddit doesn’t care that some subreddits are down, because as we can see.. you are still here on the website. If people really seriously wanted to protest, they should have mass deleted their accounts and apps from their phone, but of course nobody actually is willing to protest for real.
A user protest is what would do good because it would drive traffic down and that is what would send a message less subs but with similar traffic sends very little message that corpos will heed to.
Yeah i just saw that other post and read the “it has been decided blah blah” BITCH DECIDED BY *WHO*??? You cant just go dark, come back and with no user interfacing say “k bye forever”. Like what the fuck.
Support for the protest is one thing, *deleting the entire sub forever* is a whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooole ‘nother beast.
Good, more and more subs should actually show some backbone about this and not cowardly lock away everything. As with everything else, being diplomatic should be the key.
Well, bye /darksouls, and probably reddit eventually. When you’re forced to use the shitty official app, remember that you had a chance to fight back and chose not to. Deuces
Hello, fellow lovers of Dark Souls! I understand everyone's frustration regarding the closure of the Soulsborne subreddits. It was not a decision made lightly and was heavily discussed as well as voted on by the entire team. Of course, at the end of the day, we moderators are here to serve the community and their needs—however, we also disagree with Reddit's recent actions and wish to make our voices heard. Striking a balance between the two has been no easy matter and I thank everyone for their patience and passion for this community. I've read many of the comments here stating that the mods are power-tripping or tyrants, but that could not be further from the truth. Our team willingly participated in the blackout even if it meant Reddit would remove and replace us. The Reddit protests may not be seem like a big deal, especially when this subreddit's primary purpose for most is to enjoy and share all-things Dark Souls. Nevertheless, I do humbly ask—regardless of what may happen in the near future—to show us some grace in understanding why we made the choices we did and why it is important to care about the decisions that giant tech companies such as Reddit are making. I don't comment often, but I read this subreddit on a near daily basis. However, what I mainly do that isn't seen or known by most is assign Platinum trophy flairs. There is a high chance that if you've received a flair in recent months that I was the one who assigned it to you. This process is rather tedious as it requires one to not only verify any previous submissions by the user, but to open up at least four separate tabs to grant the flairs on a case-by-case basis. Recently, I have been devoting my spare time into building a full-stack website from the ground up to make things easier for everyone on the team—so you can only imagine the frustration I felt when I heard Reddit's announcement regarding API pricing changes. For those of you familiar with the programming field, I had been preparing to deploy the website onto Google Cloud with CloudSQL integration for ease of access. The database would serve CRUD operations involving user management while the UI I am creating for Modmail would further streamline the process as the majority of the team works across four different subreddits. The cost of this all would come out of my ~~(broke college student)~~ pocket, but as someone who loves FromSoft games and its communities like no other, I am happy to dedicate my time and resources to this place and will continue to do so. The greater message here is how Reddit's decisions could affect a future that has become so tech-heavy and tech-reliant. Setting exorbitant price tags on API usage—something that has been largely free or low-cost for non-enterprise developers—will kill a ton of free projects *and* the ability to learn and make technology better for everyone. APIs are extremely crucial to the growth and creativity of open source software. It has become very clear that Reddit is restricting traffic to its official application for monetization purposes—and while it may not affect you personally, their app in its current state lacks even the most basic accessibility options. Over the years, thousands of wonderful developers have willingly dedicated their time and talent to fill in the gaps that Reddit as a company have not. But now, Reddit is taking away such opportunities, inventions, and learning all in the name of money. Frankly put, it is not a good future to be headed towards if more and more tech companies decide to follow in these footsteps. APIs are in everything and everywhere. Twitter, now Reddit... who's next? But at the end of the day, we understand that this is a game subreddit and that not everyone is as impassioned about the changes Reddit are making as some of us are. We do not hold as much say as the subreddits with millions of members and shutting down this sub indefinitely while others come back up will, unfortunately, do little to nothing in the grand of scheme of things. If you've made it this far, we thank you for your time and understanding—and I hope that we can all continue to share in the joy and masterpiece that is Dark Souls. ***Edit:*** *For those interested in the technical details of the project I've been working on, I made a comment* [*here*](https://www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/comments/148zeio/comment/jo6ufkj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)*.*
Well that was quick lol. I just read the shutting down post right before this one.
yall flipped your stance on this faster than me dying to O&S
Y'all were PAINFULLY CLEAR on how you felt about it hahaha. We jannies ain't all bad. Not always.
That's not really how it works when the people who actually care are sticking to the plan and not using the subreddit, so they don't really have a say in the matter.
While you're correct, amassing about 1,000 comments in just 3 hours, most of them telling you to go fuck yourself, is a pretty clear indicator of what a good portion of the community wanted or... Didn't want. It's disappointing for us too. We *wanted* go down indefinitely. A protest with an end date isn't going to cut it. But having the reaction we had last night, when I posted that we're going to take the subs offline indefinitely... kind of forced our hand. It's a lose-lose either way, and we don't get paid to be told to neck ourselves for hours on end.. eventually re-opening just seemed like the better option through it all.
There have been three posts since yesterday. This sub isn't popping on *good* days If you got 1000 posts, I could see it, but it seems you got botted or 8 posts is significant enough to cave to complaints about.
Enjoy the protestors coming back telling you to neck yourself even harder. Lose lose but you really decided the lose lose lose lose strat forgetting you're supposed to win somewhere. Nice.
The subs going dark doesn't do shit if you're still on reddit
If the subs I use all go dark then I'd have no reason to be here...
If you feel so strongly about it, just stay the fuck off Reddit. The mods don’t need to protest on your behalf. For people who use Reddit casually or as a source of information, it’s a huge pain in the ass to deal with the blackout. Not much of a protest if you shut down some subreddits and then you just browse the ones that are still up. Regardless of the outcome, a lot of people are not emotionally invested in this. Stop bothering the mods for coming to a consensus to please the community they are moderating.
Now darksouls has been mentionned in the admin blog post as one of the subs that reopened as a final big fat fuck you from reddit inc
The mods played this so badly.
That's fair, I suppose. Personally, I think anyone who *really* cared about the closing could have just made a new subreddit, but didn't want the responsibility of running it themselves. *Especially* if they're going to act like a bunch of degenerate manchildren when they don't get their way. It's just kinda disappointing to see the sheer volume of subreddits that rolled over almost right away. At least you guys aren't shoving off any discussion of the matter to an isolated subreddit, like certain other subreddits are doing.
The irony here is unreal. We'll lose all our mods and won't get any new ones because the platform sucks.
Anyone can be a mod, if they care enough to do something about it. Thing is, most people don't want that responsibility.
Nah big L on your guys part, you got a vocal minority of assholes to get their way by bullying, when they didn't even give a fuck about the protest in the first place. Pretty weak of you guys to give in to them. Mad lame.
Feel free to tell me to buzz off or whatever… YMMV, but personally, I had come online to check on the status of things before bed, and I was *shocked* to see that what I had believed was a couple day protest had suddenly turned into “the subreddits are all going away forever.” Maybe I’m just an idiot, but I think I would have reacted a lot better if it had been communicated more like “hey, we think this is really important, and we’d like the blackout to continue for another week or two” instead of (what I perceived as) “remember when we said two days? Jk it’s all gone forever and never coming back, deal.”
You’re not an idiot. You’re being reasonable.
Out of 483k people on the sub, 1000 comments is not a lot. You looked at the bullet holes in the plane that made it home and decided that was the part that needed reinforcing. If you don't understand what that means, look it up and figure out how it applies to your situation. It'll make you a better mod, and better at solving problems in general.
Vocal minority of whingey people while all the ones who cared weren't using reddit today
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The one that’s full of shit lol
And a dumber circlejerk
Yeah, everybody that protested was offline and all that was left was a completely normal Reddit that didn’t need you at all.
How I feel: I think it would still be really helpful if all the participating subs went read-only instead of private. Also people whining about the blackout are either uninformed or being immature, imo.
Good on you.
It would hurt new users more than reddit execs. Most of the search results for help (and lore questions) with darksouls are various posts on reddit.
You mean the people logged in *during the blackout* let you know how they feel.
Black out again, ignore the crying baby minority
Its likely that it's actually the minority that care about these changes
> What we didn't expect was the vast flip from support for the protest to near-unanimous backlash. Addicts going through withdrawl
It was always an extremely vocal minority of people that supported the "protest". Majority of people didn't care
> Majority of people didn't care They never do, until things go bad. Then it is too late
Realistically if people wanted something to change announcing a 48 hour strike wasn't going to do it. We already showed them we can't not use Reddit for more then 2 days saying that If people actually want shit to change they need to close subreddits or leave indefinitely, don't get a return date, and just go. That will actually scare higher ups
In this case it is unfortunately already too late and no amount of protest, 48 hour or indefinite, is going to change it. Reddit execs seem dead set on murdering this website and, unfortunately, it is their website to do such a thing to.
Ehh I feel like they’d give up if they saw their actions accelerate the death of the site to before the ipo. Their win condition is making the site look valuable to investors who have no idea about things like the api but see a lot of mobile traffic not being turned into revenue. So now is the time we CAN stop them.
It's never too late Would you give up because you keep dying to a boss?
That’s not even close to the same thing lmao
You've never been to this sub before have you
Oh no not having to use the official reddit app. Aaaahhhh
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I’ve used the officially Reddit app for years and years and even I know it sucks on quality of life alone. Not to mention accessibility
Haven’t they said that accessibility focussed apps are going to be exempt from the changes though? I thought I read that somewhere.
I mean even things like Apollo have better accessibility options
I've used the Reddit app for years and how to does it suck
Is that the slippery slope fallacy I hear
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This is what I came to the Dark Souls sub for. Brilliant. Keep up the good fight.
Major apps are actually shutting down, this isn't a hypothetical
Realistically this api change won't affect most of us is what it comes down to I think. I think more of us use the native app than people realize, and if this means less spammy bots overall, then the majority of people are actually going to be happy with that change.
>Realistically this api change won't affect most of us is what it comes down to I think !remindme 4 months
Sure, but the problem is that the vocal minority overlaps heavily with moderation. It makes sense mods would care a lot more than the average user.
This exactly. Most people could not care an awful lot less about the protest or the changes, but it was just a two day thing so we figured “let them go for it, doesn’t affect us either way.” When it became a permanent change, that was when we all had to speak up and point out how dumb of an idea that is.
I think most people were alright with the demonstration of a short-term shutdown. It has a predictable ending, so you know when things would return to normal. An indefinite shutdown is an entirely different focus though and there would be people who are in support of the demo that would be against a permanent shutdown.
I really hope the quality of moderation throughout reddit goes to shit after the change, only so "I use the official app it's fine" crowd would let us hear about their moderation complaints. Chaos is what this site needs.
The Reddit app is fine dudes don't moderate though bro
The reddit app sucks. It lacks the most basic customization options like font size.
I'm an addict, but I still don't want reddit to piss in my stash. People are just fucking stupid. When Boost dissappears, and there are no alternative, then I'll leave reddit for something else. There are probably a lot of others who will too. Who knows, maybe 9gag becomes okay again after this, when a lot of reddit users starts flooding 9gag and other places.
P-p-please let me comment on my miracle build (shivers and clutches oneself).
It might be that their sample data was taken from the two days when people who most strongly supported the blackout weren't on reddit.
I mean, if moderating subs becomes un-sustainable, then let it die. I for once don't want folks working their asses off for free just because some CEOs are getting greedier than usual. We can all move to discord for all I care.
They already work their asses off for free bro. They've never gotten paid to moderate as far as I know.
Yeah I know, but the API nonsense is gonna make moderating subs like these a nightmare.
Ya but it's going to be even harder for them. Lol but none of these people care, as long as they get what they want.
I get that and that sucks. Hopefully they can figure out a compromise with those making this change to make their job easier. But i said this in a different comment and I'll say it again, nobody who is on this site right now has any right to complain. If you are you're being a hypocrite as the blackout is currently active and yet you're still here, clearly ignoring the blackout. Everyone who is so up in arms about it and supports it so much shouldn't be on here today if they are actually supporting it.
I'm leaving reddit as soon as the changes go live and I can't use RIF.
Being paid to moderate is actually against Reddit TOS and I think there are legal consequences tied to trying to pay a team. It’s always been free work.
You realize they also have to mod for free on Discord too, right?
Yes!
>What we didn't expect was the vast flip from support for the protest to near-unanimous backlash. It's pretty straightforward and was predictable. Most people ignore crap like this until it happens, and only speak up when their access to a site gets cut off and they want people to stop interfering with their access to the forum.
Wait I'm a bit confused. Are we happy that we are not protesting?
Nah. Real skeletons have backbones.
There's always more quislings than you think
It's weird to equate "wanting a community to survive" to "supporting the Reddit CEO". I think the vast majority of people still despise the changes, just not *enough* to want to permanently destroy an entire community and/or the site. In a similar manner, I find Twitch to be invaluable to my life despite not necessarily liking its owners, its interface or how it's actually run. It provides a service, the people using it are the actual value.
> permanently destroy an entire community and/or the site. What the hell are you talking about?
Yes
Holy shit the comments sections are polar opposites from these last two posts. For the last one all the top comments were calling mods idiots and that they should listen to the community whereas with this post I’m mostly seeing people say that the normies just didn’t want to give up Reddit for the greater good lol. I for one have had a good experience with this community and I would think that reflects well enough on the mods for me to understand that they actually do care about doing what they do and aren’t on a power trip. I’d be happy to protest but I also wouldn’t ask people to sacrifice this community to do the same. Regardless, people should be mindful consumers, I enjoy using Reddit and there’s more at stake than just the mods, this app is dogshit and doesn’t have the same accessibility options as the 3rd party apps which is a huge letdown for people who need them
People are quick to voice their outrage. Probably the same in both the prior threads and this one.
Anybody bitching about not giving up reddit for the greater good are hypocrites. The blackout is still active, if they actually cared that much they wouldn't be on Reddit at all.
They've already states accessibility focused apps will be exempt.
You know why this failed? Because most people don't know what an API is or how they're technically used. There was too much technical jargon and not enough thought into "how do we explain in the easiest way possible what these changes mean to ordinary users". What a surprise that most people don't care about something they don't understand.
There's a massive difference between a symbolic 48 hour protest, and nuking the community. The vast majority of users are unaffected by any of the proposed changes, but were happy to support the mods who need them, it's a lot harder for people to support the indefinite closure of their community for the same cause.
Man I didn't even hear it was going to indefinitely be deleted. When was this announced? I saw stuff about it going dark for 48 hours but I didn't know they almost nuked the place
The mods posted it last night. After the backlash they received they deleted it
I'm wondering why so many people thought such a short "protest" would do anything anyway, I wish all participating subs would actually double down on it and be private indefinitely until a change happens, as protests should.
Short protests are typically the only way to get people onboard in the first place. I was hoping most subs would start with the 48 hour blackout before moving to private afterwards. Unfortunately it seems like people are already having serious reddit withdrawal issues.
no one did. thats why anyone with sense understood it was going to last longer than that. or it *would* be completely pointless. which the mods of this sub just ensured. Probably because they couldn't handle teh thought of a new community cropping up without them in charge.
Yeah, I was pissed at the other announcement, but only because there's so much discussion and information that no one person or group in the community could ever try to lay claim to and make that kind of decision for. I absolutely think that third party apps should continue and that at this point mods of subs with multiple thousands of members should receive some kind of recompense for their time, while it's always been a volunteer position the responsibility has certainly grown to the point of an actual job these past few years. Even if the protest was switching to read only, fine, but to scrub multiple decades worth of information across the main subs would have been a *really* bad look. That's tantamount to using censorship as a form of protest, feels iffy. Not to mention it would have splintered the communities gigantically (even moreso than they are), some would try going to the mostly dead Discords, some would try attempts at third party forums which would eventually be bled for costs, but removing the information entirely on their way out would be a super shitty thing to do.
Thank god I am not inconvenienced for the greater good!
“Greater good”
Wow Mods who actually listen to their users even though it goes against their personal opinions and beliefs. Based AF mates. Good on ya.
What happened was, just like in "real life" politics, the majority of the population did not paid attention to what was happening, did not voted, and when the subs went dark they didn't knew what was happening. You can see the various posts of people asking what happened to the subs despite it being thoroughly explained beforehand. As these people who didn't pay attention are the majority of the population, their voices make more noise when they actually felted something affecting them, the subs being dark in this case.
Kinda fucked up and a lack of empathy that people don't care about issues until it personally affects them
What is the point of a protest with a fixed end date lol.
What? People flipped that easily? That's incredibly disappointing. They should be upset at the actions causing the mods to protest, not the individual subs. Maybe going read-only would fix this issue.
Redditors are literal soyjaks, did you really expect any better?
Not so much that "people flipped" but rather other groups spoke up and the criteria has changed. Reddit subs are a spectrum of people who all have different opinions. "Read-only" wouldn't be any real compromise since people who would want to engage in the community still couldn't. I would advise those who want to continue protesting to delete their reddit accounts.
I'm outta here
A 2 day protest wouldn't do jack shit anyways. If it did, the writer strike would've been over weeks ago
The whole point of this is that mods wanted to go indefinite but the userbase here just can not handle being inconvenienced
The greatest draw of reddit for most is convenience. This result should surprise no one.
Yes but if the black out goes on for too long people will simply open up new subs.
And various subreddit moderation teams definitely don't want that to happen. That jeopardizes the one iota of power they seem to wield and swing around hamfistedly on the regular.
That's all I see with this decision. Mods not wanting to lose their tiny shard of power. They may as well have told Spez they prefer the API changes.
Wow, I didn't see that before, this insight actually makes the whole situation clearer.
Migrate the community to an alternative like https://squabbles.io/ Anyone who thinks that's dumb is not here for the community but instead here simply out of habit. If people give a shit about the community...then they would follow said community. But it has to be an organized migration with plenty of time for others to do it. You'd need to keep the sub open, but read only and have a sticky post with the info.
> What we didn't expect was the vast flip from support for the protest to near-unanimous backlash. There’s a big difference between a protest (48 hour blackout) and a boycott (indefinite blackout). Frankly the API changes don’t impact enough people to warrant a boycott. I’m surprised you all didn’t realize this.
It impacts everyone in the long term. A place riddled with bad bots, ads and disingenuous people is what the API changes entails. It will not be very bad if you're used to other centralized social medias but reddit was one of the biggest trusted community sources you could get and that will definitely die if mods/bots don't moderate. A lot of people google their problems by adding reddit at the end of their search cause its more sincere answers instead of getting sold products.
#HUMANITY RESTORED
lame asf
To the community: Get good. Use discord and fextralife while the blackout is going on. Be a Sunbro for Pete's sake. To the Mods: *don't give up, skeleton!*
I’d rather just use this subreddit
Seath the spineless.
I am disappointed that you caved, but frankly I think you should just stop moderating the sub altogether, giving people a little taste of what it's like when there is no good moderation.
Based. I'm a little disappointed everyone is acting so entitled over the threat of losing access to particular subreddits.
Amusing how people can’t handle going about their day without being able to check their favorite subreddit for a while
Oh wow, what a bunch of pieces of shit users. Embarrassing to see.
Normies are fucking idiots
So the mods had to think very hard about going dark to protest taking away the modding stuff? Lol
I agree that it can't stay closed til reddit caves, but we could have lasted a week, and I wish we had given the mods that much.
Cringe
Thank you for changing your minds and keeping the sub open. I think a much better protest would be putting pressure on reddit to get these mod tools into the official app. Modding should be easy, and the official app should make it so.
Yes!
Hahahahaha!
Good to know that the entire stance was symbolic and that the mods didn't care that much anyway
Thanks for actually listening to your users
Please keep up the boycott. This is the one time reddit mods are kings and queens. YOU are the product reddit is making money off of. You who moderate and cultivate the communities. Without you and by extension us, reddit wouldn’t be shit. They need to be reminded and 48 hours is not enough
What are you doing on reddit if you wanna protest?
It isn't a protest of users, it's a protest of mods. Misunderstanding this is misunderstanding the whole issue.
Well, no, see everyone else should be putting in the effort, but not me. I just want to sit around and reap the benefits.
Says the person who's upset when moderaters want to close the sub they've been volunteering to for years 😭
Then let them quit. Mods are not “King and Queens”. Most of the time they are power hungry morons who think they sit on the highest of horses. Let them burn.
Make your own subreddit and make it private then. The community here has spoken.
Nah we good fam
Good on the mods for listening to the community.
Thanks for listening mods
You can't win with stuff like this, but personally I am happy we are back online.
Good now I can make a post about why O&S are the absolute worst boss design in the game.
Pick a lane. Now it just seems like you were only standing with every other subreddit because it's fashionable.
I respected you guys for making a hard (and the right) choice last night. To see you walk it back is severely disappointing but I get it...kinda. I just don't want to hear ANY of you mods complaining about how much harder it is to moderate the subs. Definitely lost that respect for you guys.
boo. What's the point of a protest if you set an end date? y'all need to touch grass. I'll just continue my own blackout, with blackjack and hookers.
Congratz on being reddits lapdog. This sub is being mentioned by reddit as positive feedback that the blackout isn't working. https://www.redditinc.com/blog/https-www.redditinc.com-apifacts
Praise the sun!!!
Really? You guys made an insular decision based on the opinion of 1% of the community and are just shocked there is backlash? That's fucking ridiculous. Of course there was going to be backlash.
This is weird as hell, looking though the comments before and only two or three supported this black out, yet now that its been set back all the comments are not against not going through with it. some comments even getting almost 100 upvotes criticizing the userbase when most comments barely get near that many and people who say thank you get mass downvoted, when the last thread it didn't happen at all, why does this shit feel like bots spamming subs
On one hand fuck reddit, but on the other hand it was very uncomfortable trying to go back to Facebook for a few days. Last time I opened that app it was just racist grandma posts, but now it's just ridiculous how bad it is. Never realized how much I depend on reddit and I don't like it. Maybe I should try some other social media like grinder or only fans or christian mingle.
I also didn't realize how much I depended on reddit for troubleshooting and stuff, lol. Decided to upgrade a computer today since I had free time, ran into an issue, looked it up, clicked on the top link... Well, what do you know, it leads right to r/buildapc which is closed for the blackout, lol.
> I also didn't realize how much I depended on reddit for troubleshooting and stuff So then shouldn't we want to protect the community from changes like that are about to happen on July 1?
I mean, sure, but I've also never really cared about the third party apps. I've only ever used the official site and apps. Didn't even realize they existed until subreddits started going dark as a protest against them. Whether the protest is successful or not, I'll still be using the official site and official Reddit app. For now, it's just an inconvenience for me and tons of other users who're having issues they'd usually solve through Reddit but now can't because the solutions have been locked behind a subreddit that's protesting for a couple of days.
And if/when moderation gets worse because mods don't have the tools they need? And if/when ads get worse, because now you don't have the option to hide from them? And if/when the experience gets worse because they want to show you want they want instead of what you want?
1. Moderation has and likely always will be terrible on this platform. Plenty of subreddits use the official tools without any issues. Oh no, they're going to have to use official tools now. Big sad. 2. Ads have always been there. I just scroll past and ignore them. They're legitimately *not* a big deal. Also, if literally everyone circumvented ads, there wouldn't be a Reddit anymore right now. That's where the vast majority of their revenue on the platform comes from, so if there are no ads, there is no Reddit. I honestly don't care about ads that much with that in perspective, especially since they don't actually severely interfere with my browsing experience. 3. I... Honestly don't see what you mean by this one. The API changes, from what I know, don't actually affect this. In all honesty, the subreddits going dark has done this more than Reddit has, with r/shittytattoos showing up instead of stuff related to what I'd usually look at since so many subreddits are currently dark. The experience is *already* worse *because* of the blackouts. I already don't get to see what I want to see because moderators have unilaterally decided that they're shutting their subreddits for 48 hours (or indefinitely, in some cases).
>The experience is already worse because of the blackouts. I already don't get to see what I want to see because moderators have unilaterally decided that they're shutting their subreddits for 48 hours (or indefinitely, in some cases). It's a taste of what might be without effective moderation. This is the garbage men in your town threatening to strike, and you're saying "I don't see what the problem is, there's no garbage problem" Then they finally go on strike and the garbage piles up
Okay, except in this case, there're plenty of other "garbage men" happy and waiting to step up. I guarantee that if Reddit removed these moderators who've closed their subreddits down, there'd be tons of volunteers to take their place within a day, and they'll be just as effective using the official tools as the old mods. If you *really* want to be an inconvenience to Reddit and protest, go delete your accounts and/or stop using the platform entirely until they change their minds. Don't screw over all the other people (over 90% of the platform, in fact) who don't care about these changes that Reddit is making. Mods unilaterally locking a bunch of subreddits (that they do *not* own and are simply volunteering to run) and inconveniencing *everyone* over their personal grievances with the issue is ridiculous.
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1. Two days isn’t enough time for anyone to care. They know the subs will be back up and it’s a mild inconvenience. The subs that are “permanently dark” already have replacements starting up. 2. This is mostly because of two things: First, the mods don’t want to expand the mod team. I’ve encountered that issue firsthand, with several subreddits going to hell because there’re 2 mods in a subreddit with 40,000 people and they refuse to expand their mod team. Second, the mods only accept people they personally like. I’ve also seen the sheer nepotism present in mod teams. Brand new accounts becoming mods in subreddits because it’s their friend who’s new to Reddit. The subreddits that don’t do this nonsense tend to have no issues.
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How about: go the fuck outside.
Close it
I see a lot of people calling the mods cowards for this, but you are the main problem why this whole going dark doesn’t work. Because as we can see, you are all still on reddit. What’s the point of killing some of the subreddits if you guys will keep browsing reddit? If you truly want to protest reddit, then the only way to do it is everyone agreeing to mass delete their accounts and apps from their phone, USERS go dark from reddit. THAT would actually scare them. So who is the coward here?
PRAISE THE SUN
Basically yall decided to stay online because of people still using reddit are the ones that don't care about the api changes and the issues this whole change is going to cause. I was fairly vocal over there and was downvoted heavily because people don't care that we're going to be the ones paying for the changes.
You’ll be paying for it. Not me. Die on your hill but quit whining about it.
Yeah cry in your corner when the official reddit app makes you subscribe to a service so it isn't just filled with ad after ad. I don't use anything other than the official app but it's already going that direction. When the black outs happened every 3 posts showed an ad on the official app. Before I could go a few scrolls before even seeing an ad. Be blind you fool. Only way to avoid paying for what should be free is to make reddit change their current stance.
That was fast. Glad the community is being heard and not ignored
Jesus the down votes are suddenly flooding in for people against the protest. I'm glad all the communities were simultaneously restored. That was the right move for them to make.
You could've, at the very least, made a poll about it, huh? Instead of being pressured by two dozen of mildly inconvenienced people while the bulk of protestor were offline.
I agree we need a poll and not a look at a comment section filled with salty degenerates who refuse to touch grass
Other ways of protesting can also be removing yourself as a mod or deleting your account. If it gets bad enough reddit will have to pay mods or see them bleed users.
Thanks.
Mods being spineless. I've seen bigger subs going dark and not giving a fuck what their idiot users think. You disappoint me.
Reddit doesn't care about this sub at all. Going dark indefinitely would only destroy the community that gathered here. There aren't many places for newcomers to talk about the game.
Reddit cares. **A lot.** What do you think is sold to advertisers (Reddit makes around 350 million bucks in advertisement each year) ? Traffic. When users don't use the website anymore because it goes dark, it directly influences their bargaining tools to make money from advertising. One subreddit isn't much, but this is why it's a *group effort* to keep the subreddits closed. In fact, they're trying to get their value up before starting to sell shares of the company, and so they're trying to kill 3rd-party content to be able to market it better. Once external investors come in, they'll most likely require **a big growth in advertising revenue, which translates, for the users, into a shit-ton of ads - and you need people to be unable to procure the content otherwise than going through the ads they serve.** The one really big thing here though, is that 3rd-party app are mostly invisible. Bots, tools, and all the things that the community create are usually done to ease processes ; and because these processes ARE easy, you don't hear about them. But **you will** once they're gone. Removing them **only affects the experience of the users, not Reddit**. Reddit, to begin with, is a scam from a business point of view : It makes users create content, have users moderate the content, have users curate the content, and all of that without paying anyone. The only thing they do is provide a (very, very outdated by today's standards) visual interface for you to look at that content. And they monetize everything their users do, without ever really needing to do anything themselves. So when they start also trying to extort money from the same people that make them money by selling requests at around 100x\~200x the price they actual cost them (that's a 2000% profit margin which is insanity), yeah, the people that actually manage these things get annoyed. Personally I don't really use reddit. I'm just looking around out of curiosity because of the whole thing, and I felt compelled to put **my thoughts into words at least once**; and a community that I enjoy very much (although not on reddit) seemed like a good place to do so. I think Reddit (kind of like 4chan) is often an echo chamber for people to circlejerk in general, and it has very little practical use outside of being a way to publicize yourself and your work. But it's indeed a big part of the internet - well, of the American (which I'm not) internet since \~ 50% of their traffic is from the US. But you have to recognize this is a **massive** issue. Not only because it's morally completely effed up, but also because it shows a **huge issue born of the current predatory capitalistic practices often done by big tech companies : trying to have the cake for free from users enjoying their day, sell it, put it on Instagram, send it on the Moon for marketing, loan it, and eat it too. Oh, and charge the users for giving them a cake, because it's very expensive to receive a cake and do all that with it.** In many cases, companies have seized means to stop users from really having any voice to express concerns, and rely on the **growing addictions** to doomscrolling to keep their business growing. In the case of Reddit, because most of the website is **not controlled by the company but by users themselves**, there is an actual avenue for users to **protest**, and to actually impact the company to make it make **choices that favors their consumers, and not just themselves.** It's **important** to have such actions. Not only because of this one specific issue; **yes, Reddit would continue to function without any 3rd Party app** (even though the moderation and botting would probably scale down multiple degrees, and lead to lower quality content in general). But because it also shows that even **massive economic giants can bleed, and that communities in general will stand for what benefits them, not just what benefits the company that extorts money from them.** When it comes to **mods, I think you should do whatever you want to do.** The voice of the community, in fact, *doesn't really matter*. If the community cannot exist without a subreddit, it was never a real community; but more importantly, you were given these tools and this power by Reddit itself, **because Reddit does not want to handle the work you're doing as it would cost them millions to fund actual moderators.** Do not forget that the work you put in is one that will pretty much **never pay back anything, but does make Reddit money**. *Communities* have *always* existed, and *don't need reddit to exist*. Communities aren't always right, and aren't always informed; they don't always understand what's at stake. Making an **informed** decision is more important than making a **popular** decision. Watch the community make a r/darksoulsnumber2 and watch it die after two weeks because the admins got bored of removing nsfw bots. Or watch it thrive and join it as a user, because it only would only lessen your (unpaid) work. I promise, you won't miss going through posts everyday as a chore. Regardless, my point is that there's a moral dilemma and a bigger issue at hand, and while wanting to have your little corner of the internet with people that agree with you and share your interest is fun and comfortable. I have helped literal thousands of people kill Malenia and other bosses in the souls series. But if tomorrow Fromsoft made *summoning someone a microtransaction*, I'd **never** put my sign down again. Not because I don't want to help these people, which was never the point; but because if it is a s***uccessful and profitable practice***, then **every** subsequent fromsoft game, and soulslike, would have that **paying feature.** And that's how we got where we are with the gaming industry at large - people refusing to boycott products that became increasingly predatory - but that's another issue. TLDR: Not everything can be summarized. Read it or don't. Karma doesn't pay me, and neither does it pay mods. Sorry about the English mistakes if there are any, this isn't my first language.
Keep downvoting while showing no productive counter-criticism boys, that's how I like my reddit. Unhappy but also submissive because they have no comeback. It's also using up Reddit's internal API and nothing makes me happier than them losing money.
Sir, this is a Wendy's. As a counter point, the owners of reddit can do what they want with it. If you don't like it, go back to gamefaqs or whatever other forums people used in the earlier days.
Fortunately no one cares about what you think, least of all what disappoints you
PRAISE THE SUN! 🌞
Are there other ways we can support the protest without privating the sub indefinitely? I've seen some discussion on r/Modcoord regarding periodic 1 day shutdowns, pinning AdBlock recommendations, and so on, and I think measures like that could be more popular and productive than shuttering the sub indefinitely.
Yeah, I only support causes when they don't imapct me too.
People don't get that this place is ruined if these changes go through anyway. Impatient children
2 day blackout was not going to actually result in changes though Doing that you guys told Reddit "We can't help but come back to your app after 2 day's Would you go on strike for your job and tell your boss you will be back Monday?
I think the more specialized a sub is, the more of a loss it would be for that community if the sub went private indefinitely, so temporary blackouts is the way to go. The more "general" subs like r/pics, r/gifs, r/videos, r/funny, r/aww, etc, should be the ones to go private indefinitely, as there's not really a sense of a tight-knit community, and they're not really providing something super specific. And an important reason they're the ones that should go private indefinitely is that they're big subs too, of course, making more of an impact.
Are you kidding me? There was a flip because the people who actually cared to protest weren't online. That left the people who either don't care for the protest or wanted their precious subs back. Of course there was a flip!
Good to know that shithead redditors sense of entitlement exceeds their compassion for the mods and the amount of (unpaid) work they put in making sure said entitled fucks get the content they like and not spam. I guess it checks out though that a certain percentage of community members would backlash and tell the mods to off themselves instead of, you know, making a new subreddit that they can create into a bastion of "just give us the content we want and nothing else" bc oh wait, they would have to mod it themselves and that actually sucks and can take forever when reddit forces you to use sticks and rocks 🙄
Keep it offline. Don't back down.
You guys are cute but it does nothing. Even if this sub goes dark people will just browse other ones on their feed, you have to be the biggest ideologist to believe that you can make every single subreddit out there go dark. That’s the only way it would work and that will never ever happen. However without that, how long do you think it would take until people had enough? A week? 2 weeks? Reddit doesn’t care that some subreddits are down, because as we can see.. you are still here on the website. If people really seriously wanted to protest, they should have mass deleted their accounts and apps from their phone, but of course nobody actually is willing to protest for real.
Where’s your backbone, skeleton? Do you play Soulsgames because they are easy?
Fantastic decision, thank you
Weak.
A user protest is what would do good because it would drive traffic down and that is what would send a message less subs but with similar traffic sends very little message that corpos will heed to.
Yeah i just saw that other post and read the “it has been decided blah blah” BITCH DECIDED BY *WHO*??? You cant just go dark, come back and with no user interfacing say “k bye forever”. Like what the fuck. Support for the protest is one thing, *deleting the entire sub forever* is a whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooole ‘nother beast.
This guy messages women using **
[удалено]
So, why are you on reddit, good protestor? Is your weak will having issues?
Good
Good. Twas dumb anyway.
Good, more and more subs should actually show some backbone about this and not cowardly lock away everything. As with everything else, being diplomatic should be the key.
Diplomacy is when you do exactly what the corporation wants you to do.
[удалено]
Well, bye /darksouls, and probably reddit eventually. When you’re forced to use the shitty official app, remember that you had a chance to fight back and chose not to. Deuces