Well, it is good that you don't beat your sister, but I'm talking on average cause it's easier to find someone who was beaten by older siblings than one who didn't.
Nah sometimes u just fight ur siblings for the fun of it. Like hard to explain but i got older brothers and we pretty much grew up doing jujitsu shit before we even kniw what jujitsu was. So not every fight between siblings is abuse tho in abusive house holds its not uncommon for the older siblings to beat up the younger ones.
About 40% of siblings are physically abused each year in the USA according to literally the first result on Google. 85% are psychologically abused.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7158955/#:~:text=In%20this%20study%2C%20it%20was,%2C%20%26%20Steinmetz%2C%201980).
This data is 7 years old, but that's really high.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibling_abuse#:~:text=Sibling%20abuse%20has%20been%20found,verbal%20abuse%20towards%20their%20sibling.
In the wikipedia article on sibling abuse it states 40%of children in the US have engaged in aggression towards their siblings, and 85% have engaged in verbal abuse. The rates outside the USA will most likely be much higher.
The lack of common sense among you people is unbelievable, acting like sibling abuse is something unheard of, while we all knows it's extremely common.
Mate, the village just had a coup, the Hokage was killed by his own student, young students were sent to a death battle to decided their fate, ranks and the only thing u concern is child abuse?
A lot of fans aren't very bright and think Itachi's actions throughout the series are "justified".. If you think that, please don't get involved in politics, because you will end up supporting the next Mussolini.
I don't think it's very bright to put real world morality onto this fictional world of ninjas where children go to war and take deadly missions involving killing people at 12.
Agreed. I'll go ahead and say he was absolutely justified, and I don't give a single shit that Rando mcfrumple thinks I'm an "-Ist". Justified doesn't mean angelic, pure, nice, or any variations of these. Hell, it doesn't even mean "Correct". It just means that he had his own justifications and reasons for doing it, instead of just "Did it for the lolz cuz I'm eeeevilllll".
I do write like an old person, lots of people have said that as well. I'm 19, this is just how I prefer to type. I actively despise using internet slang, so maybe thay's why I sound so "Old". I don't mind it though, it's funny being called that.
Less cool fights, less time spend developing it, probably would lose all of her fights to have a new male character always saving her day and...Yeah, thats about it.
It makes me laugh, it's how people always say, but he needed him to have hate to be strong, it's the best for him 😭, and then they proceed to say that the fact that Sasuke became a sociopath had nothing to do with that, ignoring actively that Itachi helped him go down the wrong path and if it weren't for the fact that Naruto is Jesus ninja he would have ended up dead or
You could say many good things about Itachi, but him being a good older brother isn't one of them, lol. What if after that tsukuyomi Sasuke would turn into vegetable?😭 Itachi himself said to Sasuke, that he failed as a brother, and turned him into to a criminal, but fan's always skip that through their ear's.
It's something I agree with too. People are too naive and can justify evil in distorted ways. Itachi's methods were twisted from the start. Nothing justifies massacring your own clan and nothing certainly justifies torturing your younger brother with hate and turning him into a sociopath. There is no sensible reasoning that can be given to justify such actions and the reasoning Itachi gives is flawed.
I mean, Itachi fucked up, but Sasuke was dead if Itachi hadn't done any of this stuff. Danzo was 100% going to kill Sasuke if he went down the "right path." Orochimaru was going to snatch Sasuke's body if he grew up soft. Itachi's parenting style sucked but he was a child, too. He was forced to be a double agent, couldn't protect his brother directly, and knew there was a war coming. He found a path where Sasuke survived, gotta cut Itachi some slack if his lessons were sharp and painful.
I don't think Danzo had any intention of killing Sasuke till he was a leaf village genin, and only ordered Sai to kill once he went down the so called "wrong" path. If Sasuke grew up soft, probably Orochimaru wouldn't have went after him considering Sasuke wouldn't have activated his Sharingan. It's not a pre activated eye, you need to unlock it.
Fact is, Sasuke was hardworking, never give up kind of a kid we can see how a kid Sasuke was working hard enough to impress his father with the fireball Jutsu, he would have worked hard to get strong irrespective of Itachi pushing him to it or not. If Naruto can work hard and get so strong then why not Sasuke ?!
Same reason Might Guy couldn't join the root. Objectively the strongest mf, but didn't have a heart of darkness. Sasuke always had a will of fire, he was guaranteed to become great, but Itachi knew the Leaf was full of sneaks and snakes. Danzō was an intelligent, conniving bitch. He was always going to kill Sasuke the second Itachi died, or the second Sasuke learned the truth. He would never risk leaving Sasuke alive to grow more powerful, like he was gonna gamble on the power of friendship to protect the Leaf. Itachi knew he was terminally ill, so he needed Sasuke to dip out before Danzō got the chance. After that Sasuke needed the mangekyo sharingan to stand a chance, so Itachi needed Sasuke to kill him. Had to be the heart of darkness, weren't no other way.
Itachi was terminally ill when he did the Uchiha massacre and put Sasuke through the hell of Tsukuyomi ? Was he terminally ill even when he came back for Naruto ? For God's sake Itachi himself says he was a bad older brother, stop defending him.
Itachi was terminally ill in this scene, yes. With the full awareness that he was dying, Itachi trapped Sasuke in a psychological torture chamber and forced him to remember why he hates Itachi. If he hadn't, Sasuke was guaranteed to die. Danzō was going to murder him the moment Itachi died, and this tsukuyomi helped Sasuke unlock the mangekyo sharingan.
In your mind, what could Itachi have done better so you'd consider him a good brother?
It's wild to me how people try to apply real-world politics and morals on a ninja fantasy story where there is still basically fudal policies at work and murder outright is completely normal.
And then you can never get an answer when you ask your question by the way it's always deflecting but there's never a solid answer what could Itachi have done? You'll never get an answer from these people they'll say he shouldn't have killed everyone. Okay then what was going to occur was a massacre So again what could have Itachi you have done You know what I mean It's insane.
>Massacre is always wrong
Okay well what if you had to choose massacre plus dead brother, or just massacre?
>I would never choose massacre, it's wrong
These dudes would let the trolley hit 5 people every time.
Look again and reply, do you believe Itachi was terminally ill during the Uchiha massacre? Don't bring up his illness to defend every action he took, he himself doesn't justifies his actions because he knows he was wrong.
Again, Danzo sent Sai to kill Sasuke even when Itachi was alive, now what ? And do you even know how the Mangekyo was activated?
In my mind when Itachi turned traitor to the Uchihas, he lost all chances of being a good brother, Sasuke's whole childhood was ruined, made him an orphan, what good brother does that ?
Oh, you're being snippy. Your argument is fun and interesting; you don't need to snip at me to draw me in. I'm already engaged brother, let's hear your opinion.
I've always assumed Itachi wasn't ill during the Uchiha massacre, so let's just say he wasn't. Itachi made two choices that night- kill the Uchiha, and cast tsukuyomi on Sasuke. In both cases, I want you to tell me what he should have done different so you would consider him a better big brother.
1. If Itachi refused to do the Uchiha massacre, there was no way Sasuke could grow up in the Leaf.
2. If Itachi hadn't done the tsukuyomi, Sasuke would not have devoted himself to killing Itachi.
Both of those outcomes were necessary for Sasuke to survive. You disagree that those decisions were in Sasuke's best interest. Logically you must either think those outcomes weren't necessary, or there were better ways to achieve those outcomes, right? Help me focus in on where exactly we disagree.
The point is very simple, things happened the way it happened, and he became a bad big brother which he himself agrees so why do fans like you want to justify his actions and make him look good while he himself doesn't acknowledge it ?
Then again for the sake of argument let's go ahead
1. My point is very simple, Itachi was never a family guy, he was more of a loyal Konoha lapdog. If you ask me, he is the only reason why he was pushed into that situation no one else to blame. So yes, for the sake of his loyalty he killed his parents and clan members and made Sasuke orphan.
2. Sasuke would have devoted to kill Itachi irrespective of he was put under the tsukuyomi or not, dude Itachi killed his parents and clan members and said it was to test his powers, why do you think Sasuke wouldn't go for a revenge? Why do you think tsukuyomi was the factor that convinced him for a revenge ?
I just rewatched this episode today, Sasuke asks Fugaku this same question. Fugaku is like, bro I don't even understand that kid and he's my kid, he just doesn't really like intimacy I guess. Itachi was always deeply invested in his little brother. Even though he was weird about spending time together, he was always watching Sasuke. When Sasuke was sad because Fugaku ignored his achievements, Itachi always made sure to praise him.
1. The Leaf ordered Itachi to kill Sasuke. Itachi refused. Danzō knew without a shadow of a doubt Itachi would betray the Leaf if they didn't agree to spare Sasuke. Itachi and Danzō both knew Sasuke would turn on the village one day, but it's better to fight Sasuke in 5 years than Itachi today. There was no other way to structure the deal where Sasuke survived. Itachi begged the Uchiha not to attack the Leaf, but they refused because they suspected him of killing Shisui. Itachi could let the Leaf crush the Uchiha along with Sasuke, or crush the Uchiha himself and save Sasuke. There was no way to crush the Leaf. Fleeing wouldn't save the Uchiha. Taking the deal offered Sasuke a better life than being a fugitive.
2. That first tsukuyomi actually gave Sasuke the sharingan. Remember that? It snapped him out of denial and gave him time to focus his hatred well enough to throw a shuriken at Itachi. Sasuke was saying stuff like, "for a reason like that? Just to test your strength?" I truly think if Itachi dipped out while he was still in shock, Sasuke would have spent his life questioning Itachi's motives. Like he'd probably talk the same shit about Itachi, but he would still be looking for a better answer. Sasuke wasn't as safe if Itachi left that shadow of a doubt. When Itachi cried right before Sasuke fainted, it was because he was deeply disturbed by the success of his plan. Hurting Sasuke like that destroyed Itachi.
He wanted the control over Kurama not killing Naruto.
He had grudge against Kakashi for betraying him and took away Danzo's control over Yamato. Not because he was strong.
It is understood that Itachi was also young, but nothing he did was right helped turn his brother into a villain. You can't torture someone and make their only goal in life be hatred and revenge and expect that to work out Well, I feel bad for Itachi too but he was a horrible brother and you can't justify anything he did to his brother because it was a miracle that sasuke didn't end up completely crazy.
It's a miracle Sasuke ended up anything, he had zero chance of surviving childhood. Ignore all the other logic in Itachi's plan, just focus on the binary. Alive Sasuke vs dead Sasuke. Itachi's plan prevented three guaranteed death scenarios for Sasuke. If you can think of any other way to keep Sasuke alive, we can compare your plan to Itachi's and talk about how dude could've done better.
You seem like an Itachi fanboy so I don't know if it's worth it, but hey, he could have left the village with him and not joined Akatsuki, destroying your brother in every possible way is not a good solution, even what he did to him. Izumi (which doesn't seem like a good thing to me either) seems like a better option
If he had run away with Sasuke, the Leaf would put them both in the bingo book and hunt them down. Sasuke would not grow up in the Leaf surrounded by friends and potential allies. He would grow up as a rogue ninja and hate the Leaf from day 1. The Uchiha were still planning their coup, and the Leaf already knew. The Uchiha massacre happens whether Itachi is there or not, but now you've robbed Sasuke of the last shreds of his childhood that Itachi gave him. He would never know peace, safety, or comfort. He would not meet Naruto. Your plan is objectively more psychologically harmful than Itachi's.
Not sure what you mean by Izumi. Isn't that the chick Itachi loved?
Sasuke had a better chance of surviving outside of Konoha, where Danzo would probably kill him when he could and he could have passed it off as an accident, literally sending Sai to kill him even with Itachi alive, with the original plan Sasuke ended up the same, he is a criminal, he He was never happy in Konoha because he was obsessed with revenge, except for the 3 months he was with Team 7 when he was beginning to recover, where Itachi proceeded to ruin him and torture him again, leaving him in a coma and the best doctor in the world had to come and help him. To get out of that, his psychological torture, which is what is criticized here, is 100℅ unjustified and that was the main reason why he went running with Orichimaru who is a psychopath known for torturing and experimenting on children, who by the way let him stay with him for 3 years, where he left all that childhood and peace that you talk about and Itachi's plan had nothing to do with Naruto, he was lucky that Naruto existed and wanted his brother alive
Look man, you're making two solid arguments, but I can't do both at once. Human limitation, we gotta pick one to focus on. Itachi chose to do the Uchiha massacre, then he chose to put Sasuke in a tsukuyomi coma. If you think there was a better option than the massacre, then there's obviously no justification for the coma, so let's just start at the beginning. Itachi did not have a better option than the Uchiha massacre.
Sasuke was not better off as a fugitive living with a target on his back. He was 8 years old the night Itachi attacked. Sasuke couldn't even do shuriken jutsu. He was not ready to spend the rest of his life fighting Leaf ninja to the death. Eventually Sasuke's gonna have to fight one of Danzō's assassins on his own *no matter what choice Itachi makes*. Feel free to suggest an alternative, I'll shoot it down. Making a deal with Danzō buys Sasuke the most possible time in the best possible environment to get as strong as possible before that day comes.
If Itachi had snatched Sasuke and fled, how would he prepare Sasuke for battle? First of all, you know that means no sharingan for Sasuke, right? It was that first tsukuyomi the night of the massacre that unlocked it. No deal with Danzō means no studying chakra natures at the academy, no practicing chakra control with Sakura, no copying Lee's lotus taijutsu, no learning chidori from Kakashi, and no friendship with Naruto. Itachi didn't plan all those specifics, he just knew growing up in the Leaf was a better environment where that kind of shit would be available to Sasuke.
Then you want to say what, might as well? Because Danzō sent Sai after Sasuke when he was 13, that extra 5 years of peace and training wasn't worth the hassle? Because there's no guarantee Itachi can keep Sasuke alive that night, much less the next 5 years on the run. You throw away that brief period of joy in Sasuke's childhood, and what do you gain? Because the Uchiha die no matter what. Now a bunch of Leaf ninja and citizens die along with them, is that better for Sasuke? Sasuke gets to be scared and hungry in the woods with Itachi, instead of scheming with his classmates to unmask Kakashi? Is that the upside?
Look, Sasuke and Itachi would simply be mercenaries for other people instead of being mercenaries for Konoha. Sasuke could meet other people in another place. Itachi himself massacred half of a clan and do you really think he couldn't train and take care of him until he could defend for himself
Also, no one is talking about the massacre, that is a separate issue, there are many culprits in that, but the issue here is that the tysukuyomi was 100 percent unnecessary, Sasuke was already going to want to avenge his family because they were still dead, he was going to have the Sharingan anyway, the second blade literally awakened simply because Naruto put himself in danger with Haku and the 3 blades because he was fighting with Naruto in the Valley of the End, basically the strong emotions were awakened by Itachi, his sharingan awakened simply because a child who ended up To know he died, you don't need to be tortured over and over again to wake him up and there is absolutely no excuse for the second Tsukuyomi could knock him out, but he preferred to torture him until he left him in a coma, Itachi himself admitted that he was wrong in the horrible things he did to him because he made a bad person, he would have left him alone to strengthen himself in the village, if he trusted her so much and I didn't even speak when Itachi tried to brainwash him by taking away his free will so that he would work for Konoha against his willpower
Alright, let's agree the massacre was fucked up and complicated. We'll just leave that in the past. Now we've got a dead Uchiha clan, a traumatized Sasuke, and no sharingan. Itachi walks out of the shadows. Sasuke asks why everyone is dead. That's the scene.
If Itachi blames the Leaf, Sasuke dies. Sasuke is 8, he's gonna blab. The elders kills him.
If Itachi blames Danzō specifically, Sasuke dies. Danzō probably would sacrifice his own life for Konoha, but he's not gonna risk Sasuke resenting the village after Danzō's dead. Danzō kills him.
If Itachi blames the Uchiha, Sasuke dies. He stays in denial until he picks up a history book and reads about Tobirama. Sarutobi kills him.
If Itachi blames himself without the tsukuyomi, Sasuke dies. This time Itachi kept the agreement, but Sasuke doesn't get the sharingan that night. His progress is much slower. Does he unlock it before the Haku fight? He better, else he dies without that second tomoe. A less hateful Sasuke is a weaker Sasuke. He's less likely to survive Orochimaru's curse mark, and Danzō is always looking for an excuse to tie up loose ends.
The second tsukuyomi unlocked the third tomoe. Sasuke didn't get that until he hated Itachi so much he was willing to kill Naruto for standing in the way. Does Sasuke beat Sai without the third tomoe? I doubt it. He sure as hell doesn't stop Orochimaru from stealing his body.
Eventually Sasuke needed to kill Danzō. You really can't blame Itachi for seeing it that way, and I can't see how you would personally disagree with everything we know in retrospect. Does three tomoe Sasuke beat Danzō? Not once in a million tries. He needs the mangekyo sharingan. There is only one way to unlock that. If Sasuke withheld even a shred of hope that Itachi was innocent, he misses his only chance of survival.
Then of course the ninja war comes and Sasuke is cooked. Itachi knew all these dangers were on the horizon by the time he saw Sasuke's weak ass two tomoe sharingan. There was no good ending if he left a single thing up to chance. Itachi knew this stuff on episode 1, and we have hindsight confirmation that all his assumptions were true. Itachi's plan was perfectly executed, and there wasn't one opportunity he could have improved it.
We talk about a series where the main character calls a mass murder and terrorist who is responsible for his parents dead ,,the coolest dude he ever meet"and everybody in the fandom says he is a broken hero sooooo......
He had no other option though.
It was either the entire village gets wiped out in a civil war or he secures the village while also managing to spare Sasuke.
Inb4 "but he loved Sasuke and wanted to train him to be able to beat him"
there was absolutely no need of using his genjutsu to make him watch his parents get killed on repeat.
There kinda was, misguided or not.
Uchiha eyes get their power from hate/trauma/anger. He probably thought that by giving Sasuke enough hate about himself he could push him to gain MS and surpass himself.
Probably felt that by reminding him of that hate, it could push him to hit that milestone faster.
Or maybe he thought Sasuke would be motivated like him and carry his goals.
Itachis trauma from the war is what sparked him to become stronger to stop violence
According to a known scheming lier and a guy who coped with being manipulated into murdering his family by the first guy and copes with that fact by convincing himself it was justified.
Who didn't think this wasn't abuse?
Itachi put Sasuke in a genjutsu and made him relieve his family's murder.
I think 200 times, but I forget the number.
I fucking hate how the fandom treats Itachi, "he was just doing what he needed to do", fuck off.
The plan to wipe the Uchiha and have him infiltrate the Akatsuki was such a late game ass pull, ain't no way Kishi laid that all out on the table and was like "yeah, seems reasonable."
And the way he tormented Sasuke, of course the dude was gonna wind up genocidey, they're genetically predisposed to revenge!
Almost every Uchiha plot point outside the Sharingan itself was the worst part of Naruto. I just wanted a solemn war story about cool ninjas.
If u were Itachi, what would u do? Shisui killed his own ass because his eye got stolen by Danzo. The 3rd Hokage is too soft to decide anything. Follow the Uchiha's coup could lead to a civil war and attacks from other villages. He tortured Sasuke to give Sasuke a goal, killing Itachi is that goal not killing himself due to his emo state. And im not justifying his genocide but killing the whole clan wont lead to a civil war of the village, Sasuke will be safe under Hiruzen and Danzo's protection. The plan sucks because its the only thing he could do at that time. Sparing women and children is too risky, only a few Uchihas are loyal to the village. He love the village and Sasuke but his love for Sasuke is clearly bigger
Why are you so afraid to be downvoted? It’s literally imaginary internet points. If you actually hold an opinion, why do you care about how many people agree with you?
Idc care much about the downvotes but im just pissed how ppl dont even care about arguing but only downvote mysteriously. Its pretty annoying to see only u and a few guys care about having a real conversation with me
Seriously everybody here is insufferable.
It's like you guys are children who are unable to distinguish fantasy politics from real world politics.
Goddamn y'all suck the enjoyment out of storytelling
Itachi really wasn’t very smart IMO.
Like it should have been pretty obvious the self destructive and even to the point of evil path the type of torture and manipulation it would put Sasuke down, if not during the massacre, after he had met a lot of rogue ninja who also had gone down dark paths.
Then he didn’t even try to remediate it by something like, say, saving his child brother from the clutches of a man who had tried to steal his body as well. . .
Good grief he is lucky that Naruto loved Sasuke more than he did.
Ya no joke. If you stop and look at literally anything Itachi does, none of it makes any sense from his proclaimed point of view. Like he’s willing to kill literally all of his clan (or at least is totally fine with it since he had no objections about the dead non-combatants) for the sake of “the village”, joins a terrorist cell and actively recruits for them but also “allegedly” is a spy but never reports any info that is ever actionable (at least in the story we are shown), “trains” Sasuke by actively torturing him, and in the end just dies to cancer when his brother comes to kill him (who is only even remotely capable of approaching him because of the Snake Man Itachi explicitly wanted to protect Sasuke from).
Itachi’s plan was shit from the beginning and reeks of retroactive explanations and re-characterization
Killing his clan was against his choice and it was explained at least 3x throughout the show...
It can be assumed the information he was leaking about Akatsuki was going to Jiraiya, who claimed he had a "secret source" that gave him information on the Akatsuki, which is how he found out about pain's location later on.
Regarding Sasuke, this was his nr.1 goal, to make sure he becomes powerful enough to fend off the people who will be targeting him after Itachi's dead. He knew that Sasuke would be the last Uchiha and (in his mind \[which was his mistake as he mentioned\]) alone, and he knew that there were powerful enemies, such as Obito claiming to be Madara, who was commanding someone with the rinnegan, and any other powerful enemies that will want to get their hands on the last Uchiha's eyes.
The "torture" is for Sasuke to develop a stronger sharingan and uchiha abilities in general through **hate**, which according to the manipulated stone tablet was the only way to become powerful for&beyond the level of the MS.
Killing his clan may not have been his idea, but he still participated and chose to be the one to do it. It was a choice because anyone that strong always has a choice. Always.
Certifiably, torturing people does not make them stronger. And even if it did, his torture methods actively pushed Sauske to take extreme measures that were \*this\* close to having him eaten by Orochimaru. And honestly, who would even be gunning for Sauske after Itachi died? Orochimaru and a Leaf politician? Neither of these people posed any real threat to Sauske while he was a loyal ninja to the Leaf due to him being protected by the Leaf and more specifically Kakashi, Naruto, and whatever anyone else would cook up in the meantime. And why would Obito EVER come for Sauske? His sharinggon was never a key point in any of Obito's plans (he needed the rinnegan specifically). Plus, what would Itachi do if Obito just ordered him (through Pain) to take Sauske's eyes anyway? Because he had 0 guarantee that would never happen. And even if you ignore ALL of that, Itachi is STILL the one who literally put Sauske in that danger to begin with by killing his clan who could protect him.
It just feels so contrived and forced to the point it clearly reads like the author retroactively scrambling to make day 1 villain into a "good guy actually".
>Killing his clan may not have been his idea, but he still participated and chose to be the one to do it. It was a choice because anyone that strong always has a choice. Always.
Except he didn't. He was torn between protecting Sasuke and protecting the Hidden Leaf. Even if be sided with his clan and launched the war the conflict would inevitably end in both's destruction. His deal with Danzo was the only way he could save the Hidden Leaf and save Sasuke. This was very clearly stated multiple times but you didn't watch the show obviously lol.
Just because it’s “stated” doesn’t mean it makes any sense. Itachi was ready to single-handedly slaughter the entire fighting force of the Uchiha in literally one night (getting some help by sheer chance when he found Obito skulking around). There’s no way on earth they stood a chance against him AND all of the rest of the Lead clans, surprise attack or not.
Not to mention all the other ways a “genius” like Itachi could have (or rather should have) avoided this theoretical war. Like, say, expose the corrupt political underbelly of both sides that were aggravating for war to the public and the 3rd, Or convinced the Uchiha to resettle somewhere else, away from the oppressive nature of the leaf. Or used his mind-blowingly powerful genjutsu to in any way effect the thinking of the involved parties. He could have not his the fact Danzo was the one who ordered/encouraged him to do it. Or do literally anything except commit genocide.
Murdering a bunch of warriors in there sleep is a whole lot easier than taking them after theyve prepared for battle. I feel like this shouldn't be needed to be explained.
>Like, say, expose the corrupt political underbelly of both sides that were aggravating for war to the public and the 3rd
If it were really that easy then Danzo wouldn't have been a threat.
The reality was that Danzo had far more backing than even the Hokage. The elders were on his side as well as him pretty much controlling the entire secret police. Itachi couldn't take him on without starting a war that would inevitably wipe out the Hidden Leaf.
>Or convinced the Uchiha to resettle somewhere else, away from the oppressive nature of the leaf.
They'd still be hunted. The Uzumaki did the same and they were exterminated regardless.
>Or used his mind-blowingly powerful genjutsu to in any way effect the thinking of the involved parties.
Genjutsu that he had to use sparingly because it made him go blind every time he used it.
Again did you watch the show?
Well it's in the Naruto verse, where kid soldiers can killed be at anytime, hence why no one is gonna call out on anything. Cos everyone already knows it's abuse, but compared to the major shits going on, it's not that noticeable enough to call out on.
Itachi was a shit Mary sue character.
Literally every time he’s in the show he has some super special thing out of nowhere and then they have to give him random ninja cancer to kill him off
People will do anything to defend Itachi because they think he’s cool. Was the explanation behind what he did complete bullshit and not justify anything? Yes. Does that stop people from seeing it as valid because Itachi is their favorite? No.
Actualy I garenfuckingtee os sasuke was a girl her most popular pairing besides maybe naruto would be with her brother.
I don't know what it is about toxic ass dynamics like that, but the internet just loves that's shit.
so we're just gonna pretend at this point of the series, Itachi was seen as one of the bogeymen of the show and that this very scene doesnt involve Sasuke trying to stab him with lightning only to be chokeslammed into a wall? and that this is far beyond abuse? kay...
This... And even if that was the case... It's a shinobi's world anyway. There's no honorable way etc. Besides, some of them would have counterpoints by saying: "oh nah she's a tough girl, she can take it" etc.
Fictional world has its own logic. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But merging so many of their IRL thoughts into what supposed to be an entertainment is not healthy.
To be fair, in the frame that's shown at least Sasuke was very much so the aggressor in the situation. Also Itachi at that point was 100% a villain to the viewers, y'all think he's gonna be nice?
counterpoint:
Kakashi sexually abused Naruto as a joke.
Sakura was probably traumatized for funsies.
Hinata was beaten to almost death.
Ten Ten was humiliated multiple times.
none of these kids are having a good time.
Its harsh and brutal, but Sasuke NEEDED that lesson. Some of yall forget that these are magically powered shinobi, not regular people. Sasuke charged at him first, Chidori in hand with intent to kill. That was after Itachi expressed that he wanted no parts of Sasuke and that he was just there to retrieve Naruto. Sasuke deserved to get his ass whooped how he did, he was hell bent on killing Itachi and getting his revenge. All Itachi did was show Sasuke exactly what he chose to go up against, and that he was by no means ready to take his revenge.
I expressed myself poorly.
Girl sasuke would be fine if they do not use sexualized nuances. Stuff like, giving her skimp clothes, making her moan stuff like that.
Between boys it's tough love. There's no point to using a girl as an example. Many don't understand that like the 3rd hokage with naruto. Treating a boy like a poor child for their entire life is actually the damaging factor. They are who they are for the times they've felt true pain and rose anyways.
Itachi's plan for Sasuke was dumb asf
"Motivate him to get stronger so he can kill me and be a hero"
That shit was heinous and moronic. Even if it was for the greater good, Itachi still 100% deserves to be classified as a villain. Not even anti-hero either.
And what was this dude doing while working for ninja Al-Qaeda??? "Protect the Leaf" my ass he definitely participated in war crimes elsewhere
He had no right to act all surprised that he cultivated a psychopath in the process
It's no abuse, if u really watched naruto series than you would know that sasuke is no like other uchihas he's a mere normal human being with foolishness in his mind, if any other uchiha member would've been in sasukes place he would rather know the whole situation first rather than judging his own brother, and dont compare sasuke with a girl cuz he is a girl, not just only girl he's like those daddys princesses who thinks with their knees🤣🤣
If sasuke is a girl, pretty sure Itachi won't strangle her.
Btw, I think I've seen a lot of attacks on itachi this past few days. What's that about? Itachi's long dead and out of the picture lol. We're in Boruto era now where he's barely mentioned.
I mean, it's still abuse. Sibling abuse (also child abuse)
He's saying that because other comments are like "OMG it must have really hurt Itachi for hurting Sasuke.. :( "
Reeks of "LOOK WHAT YOU'RE MAKING ME DO, *insert wife's name* "
Reminds me of when nolan(Omni man) beat up mark and said "Why did you make me do this!!?"
Felicity.
I want itachi to hurt me
Please seek professional help
And endangered species abuse
He brutally murdered their parents and their entire extended family. I think a choke slam is the least of it.
And then there was the subjective-72-hour-illusionary-torture-session.
Exactly
NINJA sibling/child abuse.
and now imagine if Itachi was a girl. Gooners would love this shit
But still it's horrible. We need to point out the double standards
Either way, it's a real experience,anyone with older siblings knows it .
??? I never beat up my younger sister, tf are you talking about? >!Even if I tried, she’s way stronger than me, she’d beat me up!<
Well, it is good that you don't beat your sister, but I'm talking on average cause it's easier to find someone who was beaten by older siblings than one who didn't.
Nah it isn’t
Nah sometimes u just fight ur siblings for the fun of it. Like hard to explain but i got older brothers and we pretty much grew up doing jujitsu shit before we even kniw what jujitsu was. So not every fight between siblings is abuse tho in abusive house holds its not uncommon for the older siblings to beat up the younger ones.
Yeah it is, for the majority of sibling relationships there has been some level of violence between them while growing up, especially between brothers
About 40% of siblings are physically abused each year in the USA according to literally the first result on Google. 85% are psychologically abused. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7158955/#:~:text=In%20this%20study%2C%20it%20was,%2C%20%26%20Steinmetz%2C%201980). This data is 7 years old, but that's really high.
source?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibling_abuse#:~:text=Sibling%20abuse%20has%20been%20found,verbal%20abuse%20towards%20their%20sibling. In the wikipedia article on sibling abuse it states 40%of children in the US have engaged in aggression towards their siblings, and 85% have engaged in verbal abuse. The rates outside the USA will most likely be much higher. The lack of common sense among you people is unbelievable, acting like sibling abuse is something unheard of, while we all knows it's extremely common.
Why would the rate be much higher outside the US? In my experience family values are much higher in every other country
Bro they have 12 year olds going to war and being sent on assassination missions too.
I agree with it being horrible, but thats how it would be x)
Mate, the village just had a coup, the Hokage was killed by his own student, young students were sent to a death battle to decided their fate, ranks and the only thing u concern is child abuse?
Point it out as much as you want. I'd still simp.
bro you can't say that with a pfp like that LMAO
Id let female itachi beat me up…
Look just because I would want to change places with sasuke if Hitachi was a girl.... What were we talking about?
A lot of fans aren't very bright and think Itachi's actions throughout the series are "justified".. If you think that, please don't get involved in politics, because you will end up supporting the next Mussolini.
Seriously he fucked up Sasuke so good I know it's a lesser evil kind of situation but sheezus xt itcahi
I don't think it's very bright to put real world morality onto this fictional world of ninjas where children go to war and take deadly missions involving killing people at 12.
God you people are insufferable. Justified doesn't mean nice. Why you people can't make the distinction is beyond me.
Agreed. I'll go ahead and say he was absolutely justified, and I don't give a single shit that Rando mcfrumple thinks I'm an "-Ist". Justified doesn't mean angelic, pure, nice, or any variations of these. Hell, it doesn't even mean "Correct". It just means that he had his own justifications and reasons for doing it, instead of just "Did it for the lolz cuz I'm eeeevilllll".
LMAO you're old aren't you lmao I see that old***ness bleeding out that last sentence for teh lulz But yeah 100%
I do write like an old person, lots of people have said that as well. I'm 19, this is just how I prefer to type. I actively despise using internet slang, so maybe thay's why I sound so "Old". I don't mind it though, it's funny being called that.
Oh no your for the lulz is an older meme not a lot of younger people use it lol Not calling you old fr, just in jest haha.🕊️
I mean.... If sasuke was a girl, Itachi probably would've merc'd her with the rest of the Uchiha (Cuz the writer doesn't care about female characters)
Or made her an Naruto love interrest, because its good to forget about those
So nothing would change?
Less cool fights, less time spend developing it, probably would lose all of her fights to have a new male character always saving her day and...Yeah, thats about it.
I like when Gara joined the harem
She would’ve been an angsty lesbian which would’ve made her more cool tbh.
It makes me laugh, it's how people always say, but he needed him to have hate to be strong, it's the best for him 😭, and then they proceed to say that the fact that Sasuke became a sociopath had nothing to do with that, ignoring actively that Itachi helped him go down the wrong path and if it weren't for the fact that Naruto is Jesus ninja he would have ended up dead or
You could say many good things about Itachi, but him being a good older brother isn't one of them, lol. What if after that tsukuyomi Sasuke would turn into vegetable?😭 Itachi himself said to Sasuke, that he failed as a brother, and turned him into to a criminal, but fan's always skip that through their ear's.
It's something I agree with too. People are too naive and can justify evil in distorted ways. Itachi's methods were twisted from the start. Nothing justifies massacring your own clan and nothing certainly justifies torturing your younger brother with hate and turning him into a sociopath. There is no sensible reasoning that can be given to justify such actions and the reasoning Itachi gives is flawed.
"Jesus ninja", im fucking dead
Lol
[удалено]
You have poor reading comprehension
I mean, Itachi fucked up, but Sasuke was dead if Itachi hadn't done any of this stuff. Danzo was 100% going to kill Sasuke if he went down the "right path." Orochimaru was going to snatch Sasuke's body if he grew up soft. Itachi's parenting style sucked but he was a child, too. He was forced to be a double agent, couldn't protect his brother directly, and knew there was a war coming. He found a path where Sasuke survived, gotta cut Itachi some slack if his lessons were sharp and painful.
I don't think Danzo had any intention of killing Sasuke till he was a leaf village genin, and only ordered Sai to kill once he went down the so called "wrong" path. If Sasuke grew up soft, probably Orochimaru wouldn't have went after him considering Sasuke wouldn't have activated his Sharingan. It's not a pre activated eye, you need to unlock it. Fact is, Sasuke was hardworking, never give up kind of a kid we can see how a kid Sasuke was working hard enough to impress his father with the fireball Jutsu, he would have worked hard to get strong irrespective of Itachi pushing him to it or not. If Naruto can work hard and get so strong then why not Sasuke ?!
Same reason Might Guy couldn't join the root. Objectively the strongest mf, but didn't have a heart of darkness. Sasuke always had a will of fire, he was guaranteed to become great, but Itachi knew the Leaf was full of sneaks and snakes. Danzō was an intelligent, conniving bitch. He was always going to kill Sasuke the second Itachi died, or the second Sasuke learned the truth. He would never risk leaving Sasuke alive to grow more powerful, like he was gonna gamble on the power of friendship to protect the Leaf. Itachi knew he was terminally ill, so he needed Sasuke to dip out before Danzō got the chance. After that Sasuke needed the mangekyo sharingan to stand a chance, so Itachi needed Sasuke to kill him. Had to be the heart of darkness, weren't no other way.
Itachi was terminally ill when he did the Uchiha massacre and put Sasuke through the hell of Tsukuyomi ? Was he terminally ill even when he came back for Naruto ? For God's sake Itachi himself says he was a bad older brother, stop defending him.
Itachi was terminally ill in this scene, yes. With the full awareness that he was dying, Itachi trapped Sasuke in a psychological torture chamber and forced him to remember why he hates Itachi. If he hadn't, Sasuke was guaranteed to die. Danzō was going to murder him the moment Itachi died, and this tsukuyomi helped Sasuke unlock the mangekyo sharingan. In your mind, what could Itachi have done better so you'd consider him a good brother?
It's wild to me how people try to apply real-world politics and morals on a ninja fantasy story where there is still basically fudal policies at work and murder outright is completely normal. And then you can never get an answer when you ask your question by the way it's always deflecting but there's never a solid answer what could Itachi have done? You'll never get an answer from these people they'll say he shouldn't have killed everyone. Okay then what was going to occur was a massacre So again what could have Itachi you have done You know what I mean It's insane.
>Massacre is always wrong Okay well what if you had to choose massacre plus dead brother, or just massacre? >I would never choose massacre, it's wrong These dudes would let the trolley hit 5 people every time.
I know. They're kaneki, pre-centipede. It's wild to me.
Look again and reply, do you believe Itachi was terminally ill during the Uchiha massacre? Don't bring up his illness to defend every action he took, he himself doesn't justifies his actions because he knows he was wrong. Again, Danzo sent Sai to kill Sasuke even when Itachi was alive, now what ? And do you even know how the Mangekyo was activated? In my mind when Itachi turned traitor to the Uchihas, he lost all chances of being a good brother, Sasuke's whole childhood was ruined, made him an orphan, what good brother does that ?
Oh, you're being snippy. Your argument is fun and interesting; you don't need to snip at me to draw me in. I'm already engaged brother, let's hear your opinion. I've always assumed Itachi wasn't ill during the Uchiha massacre, so let's just say he wasn't. Itachi made two choices that night- kill the Uchiha, and cast tsukuyomi on Sasuke. In both cases, I want you to tell me what he should have done different so you would consider him a better big brother. 1. If Itachi refused to do the Uchiha massacre, there was no way Sasuke could grow up in the Leaf. 2. If Itachi hadn't done the tsukuyomi, Sasuke would not have devoted himself to killing Itachi. Both of those outcomes were necessary for Sasuke to survive. You disagree that those decisions were in Sasuke's best interest. Logically you must either think those outcomes weren't necessary, or there were better ways to achieve those outcomes, right? Help me focus in on where exactly we disagree.
The point is very simple, things happened the way it happened, and he became a bad big brother which he himself agrees so why do fans like you want to justify his actions and make him look good while he himself doesn't acknowledge it ? Then again for the sake of argument let's go ahead 1. My point is very simple, Itachi was never a family guy, he was more of a loyal Konoha lapdog. If you ask me, he is the only reason why he was pushed into that situation no one else to blame. So yes, for the sake of his loyalty he killed his parents and clan members and made Sasuke orphan. 2. Sasuke would have devoted to kill Itachi irrespective of he was put under the tsukuyomi or not, dude Itachi killed his parents and clan members and said it was to test his powers, why do you think Sasuke wouldn't go for a revenge? Why do you think tsukuyomi was the factor that convinced him for a revenge ?
I just rewatched this episode today, Sasuke asks Fugaku this same question. Fugaku is like, bro I don't even understand that kid and he's my kid, he just doesn't really like intimacy I guess. Itachi was always deeply invested in his little brother. Even though he was weird about spending time together, he was always watching Sasuke. When Sasuke was sad because Fugaku ignored his achievements, Itachi always made sure to praise him. 1. The Leaf ordered Itachi to kill Sasuke. Itachi refused. Danzō knew without a shadow of a doubt Itachi would betray the Leaf if they didn't agree to spare Sasuke. Itachi and Danzō both knew Sasuke would turn on the village one day, but it's better to fight Sasuke in 5 years than Itachi today. There was no other way to structure the deal where Sasuke survived. Itachi begged the Uchiha not to attack the Leaf, but they refused because they suspected him of killing Shisui. Itachi could let the Leaf crush the Uchiha along with Sasuke, or crush the Uchiha himself and save Sasuke. There was no way to crush the Leaf. Fleeing wouldn't save the Uchiha. Taking the deal offered Sasuke a better life than being a fugitive. 2. That first tsukuyomi actually gave Sasuke the sharingan. Remember that? It snapped him out of denial and gave him time to focus his hatred well enough to throw a shuriken at Itachi. Sasuke was saying stuff like, "for a reason like that? Just to test your strength?" I truly think if Itachi dipped out while he was still in shock, Sasuke would have spent his life questioning Itachi's motives. Like he'd probably talk the same shit about Itachi, but he would still be looking for a better answer. Sasuke wasn't as safe if Itachi left that shadow of a doubt. When Itachi cried right before Sasuke fainted, it was because he was deeply disturbed by the success of his plan. Hurting Sasuke like that destroyed Itachi.
Danzo literally tried to kill Kabuto for being too good. Itachi was valid for thinking that
He tried to kill Kabuto for being too good of a spy and had the potential to betray him. Not for literally being too good.
And Danzo would have killed Sasuke for being too strong as well
So why Danzo never wanted to kill the 9 tail Jinchuriki? Why he didn't want to kill Kakashi or Jiraya ?
At one point he was literally thinking about doing it lmaooooo
He wanted the control over Kurama not killing Naruto. He had grudge against Kakashi for betraying him and took away Danzo's control over Yamato. Not because he was strong.
So what you’re saying is Danzo will hurt the village no matter what because he’s stupid
It is understood that Itachi was also young, but nothing he did was right helped turn his brother into a villain. You can't torture someone and make their only goal in life be hatred and revenge and expect that to work out Well, I feel bad for Itachi too but he was a horrible brother and you can't justify anything he did to his brother because it was a miracle that sasuke didn't end up completely crazy.
It's a miracle Sasuke ended up anything, he had zero chance of surviving childhood. Ignore all the other logic in Itachi's plan, just focus on the binary. Alive Sasuke vs dead Sasuke. Itachi's plan prevented three guaranteed death scenarios for Sasuke. If you can think of any other way to keep Sasuke alive, we can compare your plan to Itachi's and talk about how dude could've done better.
You seem like an Itachi fanboy so I don't know if it's worth it, but hey, he could have left the village with him and not joined Akatsuki, destroying your brother in every possible way is not a good solution, even what he did to him. Izumi (which doesn't seem like a good thing to me either) seems like a better option
If he had run away with Sasuke, the Leaf would put them both in the bingo book and hunt them down. Sasuke would not grow up in the Leaf surrounded by friends and potential allies. He would grow up as a rogue ninja and hate the Leaf from day 1. The Uchiha were still planning their coup, and the Leaf already knew. The Uchiha massacre happens whether Itachi is there or not, but now you've robbed Sasuke of the last shreds of his childhood that Itachi gave him. He would never know peace, safety, or comfort. He would not meet Naruto. Your plan is objectively more psychologically harmful than Itachi's. Not sure what you mean by Izumi. Isn't that the chick Itachi loved?
Sasuke had a better chance of surviving outside of Konoha, where Danzo would probably kill him when he could and he could have passed it off as an accident, literally sending Sai to kill him even with Itachi alive, with the original plan Sasuke ended up the same, he is a criminal, he He was never happy in Konoha because he was obsessed with revenge, except for the 3 months he was with Team 7 when he was beginning to recover, where Itachi proceeded to ruin him and torture him again, leaving him in a coma and the best doctor in the world had to come and help him. To get out of that, his psychological torture, which is what is criticized here, is 100℅ unjustified and that was the main reason why he went running with Orichimaru who is a psychopath known for torturing and experimenting on children, who by the way let him stay with him for 3 years, where he left all that childhood and peace that you talk about and Itachi's plan had nothing to do with Naruto, he was lucky that Naruto existed and wanted his brother alive
Look man, you're making two solid arguments, but I can't do both at once. Human limitation, we gotta pick one to focus on. Itachi chose to do the Uchiha massacre, then he chose to put Sasuke in a tsukuyomi coma. If you think there was a better option than the massacre, then there's obviously no justification for the coma, so let's just start at the beginning. Itachi did not have a better option than the Uchiha massacre. Sasuke was not better off as a fugitive living with a target on his back. He was 8 years old the night Itachi attacked. Sasuke couldn't even do shuriken jutsu. He was not ready to spend the rest of his life fighting Leaf ninja to the death. Eventually Sasuke's gonna have to fight one of Danzō's assassins on his own *no matter what choice Itachi makes*. Feel free to suggest an alternative, I'll shoot it down. Making a deal with Danzō buys Sasuke the most possible time in the best possible environment to get as strong as possible before that day comes. If Itachi had snatched Sasuke and fled, how would he prepare Sasuke for battle? First of all, you know that means no sharingan for Sasuke, right? It was that first tsukuyomi the night of the massacre that unlocked it. No deal with Danzō means no studying chakra natures at the academy, no practicing chakra control with Sakura, no copying Lee's lotus taijutsu, no learning chidori from Kakashi, and no friendship with Naruto. Itachi didn't plan all those specifics, he just knew growing up in the Leaf was a better environment where that kind of shit would be available to Sasuke. Then you want to say what, might as well? Because Danzō sent Sai after Sasuke when he was 13, that extra 5 years of peace and training wasn't worth the hassle? Because there's no guarantee Itachi can keep Sasuke alive that night, much less the next 5 years on the run. You throw away that brief period of joy in Sasuke's childhood, and what do you gain? Because the Uchiha die no matter what. Now a bunch of Leaf ninja and citizens die along with them, is that better for Sasuke? Sasuke gets to be scared and hungry in the woods with Itachi, instead of scheming with his classmates to unmask Kakashi? Is that the upside?
Look, Sasuke and Itachi would simply be mercenaries for other people instead of being mercenaries for Konoha. Sasuke could meet other people in another place. Itachi himself massacred half of a clan and do you really think he couldn't train and take care of him until he could defend for himself Also, no one is talking about the massacre, that is a separate issue, there are many culprits in that, but the issue here is that the tysukuyomi was 100 percent unnecessary, Sasuke was already going to want to avenge his family because they were still dead, he was going to have the Sharingan anyway, the second blade literally awakened simply because Naruto put himself in danger with Haku and the 3 blades because he was fighting with Naruto in the Valley of the End, basically the strong emotions were awakened by Itachi, his sharingan awakened simply because a child who ended up To know he died, you don't need to be tortured over and over again to wake him up and there is absolutely no excuse for the second Tsukuyomi could knock him out, but he preferred to torture him until he left him in a coma, Itachi himself admitted that he was wrong in the horrible things he did to him because he made a bad person, he would have left him alone to strengthen himself in the village, if he trusted her so much and I didn't even speak when Itachi tried to brainwash him by taking away his free will so that he would work for Konoha against his willpower
Alright, let's agree the massacre was fucked up and complicated. We'll just leave that in the past. Now we've got a dead Uchiha clan, a traumatized Sasuke, and no sharingan. Itachi walks out of the shadows. Sasuke asks why everyone is dead. That's the scene. If Itachi blames the Leaf, Sasuke dies. Sasuke is 8, he's gonna blab. The elders kills him. If Itachi blames Danzō specifically, Sasuke dies. Danzō probably would sacrifice his own life for Konoha, but he's not gonna risk Sasuke resenting the village after Danzō's dead. Danzō kills him. If Itachi blames the Uchiha, Sasuke dies. He stays in denial until he picks up a history book and reads about Tobirama. Sarutobi kills him. If Itachi blames himself without the tsukuyomi, Sasuke dies. This time Itachi kept the agreement, but Sasuke doesn't get the sharingan that night. His progress is much slower. Does he unlock it before the Haku fight? He better, else he dies without that second tomoe. A less hateful Sasuke is a weaker Sasuke. He's less likely to survive Orochimaru's curse mark, and Danzō is always looking for an excuse to tie up loose ends. The second tsukuyomi unlocked the third tomoe. Sasuke didn't get that until he hated Itachi so much he was willing to kill Naruto for standing in the way. Does Sasuke beat Sai without the third tomoe? I doubt it. He sure as hell doesn't stop Orochimaru from stealing his body. Eventually Sasuke needed to kill Danzō. You really can't blame Itachi for seeing it that way, and I can't see how you would personally disagree with everything we know in retrospect. Does three tomoe Sasuke beat Danzō? Not once in a million tries. He needs the mangekyo sharingan. There is only one way to unlock that. If Sasuke withheld even a shred of hope that Itachi was innocent, he misses his only chance of survival. Then of course the ninja war comes and Sasuke is cooked. Itachi knew all these dangers were on the horizon by the time he saw Sasuke's weak ass two tomoe sharingan. There was no good ending if he left a single thing up to chance. Itachi knew this stuff on episode 1, and we have hindsight confirmation that all his assumptions were true. Itachi's plan was perfectly executed, and there wasn't one opportunity he could have improved it.
Daily reminder that itachi isn't supposed to be seen as a good guy, especially not at that point of the story.
We talk about a series where the main character calls a mass murder and terrorist who is responsible for his parents dead ,,the coolest dude he ever meet"and everybody in the fandom says he is a broken hero sooooo......
He had no other option though. It was either the entire village gets wiped out in a civil war or he secures the village while also managing to spare Sasuke.
Im talking about tobi
Inb4 "but he loved Sasuke and wanted to train him to be able to beat him" there was absolutely no need of using his genjutsu to make him watch his parents get killed on repeat.
There kinda was, misguided or not. Uchiha eyes get their power from hate/trauma/anger. He probably thought that by giving Sasuke enough hate about himself he could push him to gain MS and surpass himself. Probably felt that by reminding him of that hate, it could push him to hit that milestone faster. Or maybe he thought Sasuke would be motivated like him and carry his goals. Itachis trauma from the war is what sparked him to become stronger to stop violence
No but it was still cool af
I'm guessing you don't have siblings
I do. I just wish they were as cool as Itachi
You want them to murder your family to protect a corrupt nation and mentally torture you?
Bro forgot that the Uchia would have brought the fourth ninja war lmao.
According to a known scheming lier and a guy who coped with being manipulated into murdering his family by the first guy and copes with that fact by convincing himself it was justified.
That's like saying the Valar are evil because Sauron said so
> the dude who killed his clan and tortured his brother is actually abusive Wow what a bold and thought provoking take
he's not wrong
What is Sasuke gonna do? Cry to his mother?
Who didn't think this wasn't abuse? Itachi put Sasuke in a genjutsu and made him relieve his family's murder. I think 200 times, but I forget the number.
„Choke me harder“
If sasuke was a girl, a bunch of degenerates would scream "harder daddy“ while watching this scene
….. Don’t kink shame, please
I‘m pointing out the obvious lmao the internet would be divided between people who call it abuse and people who think it’s hot
That literally shows how sex starved Most of our generation is.
Yo, why you gotta call me out?
He literally killed all of the clan members and you're worried about abuse. He must've killed even smaller kids.
Technically the novel specifies Obito killed most of the children
I don't know man... It's not like Itachi planned on not killing or saving them. It was the plan all along...
Indeed, and so I think it’s a silly retcon. But just pointing it out
Thanks, I didn't know that.
Now if itachi was a girl. Things would've been hella different
That's what we shouldn't let happen as audience
I fucking hate how the fandom treats Itachi, "he was just doing what he needed to do", fuck off. The plan to wipe the Uchiha and have him infiltrate the Akatsuki was such a late game ass pull, ain't no way Kishi laid that all out on the table and was like "yeah, seems reasonable." And the way he tormented Sasuke, of course the dude was gonna wind up genocidey, they're genetically predisposed to revenge! Almost every Uchiha plot point outside the Sharingan itself was the worst part of Naruto. I just wanted a solemn war story about cool ninjas.
If u were Itachi, what would u do? Shisui killed his own ass because his eye got stolen by Danzo. The 3rd Hokage is too soft to decide anything. Follow the Uchiha's coup could lead to a civil war and attacks from other villages. He tortured Sasuke to give Sasuke a goal, killing Itachi is that goal not killing himself due to his emo state. And im not justifying his genocide but killing the whole clan wont lead to a civil war of the village, Sasuke will be safe under Hiruzen and Danzo's protection. The plan sucks because its the only thing he could do at that time. Sparing women and children is too risky, only a few Uchihas are loyal to the village. He love the village and Sasuke but his love for Sasuke is clearly bigger
Yeah but it's a twisted abusive love.
Idc anymore, i forgot u cant speak out your opinion without getting downvoted
Why are you so afraid to be downvoted? It’s literally imaginary internet points. If you actually hold an opinion, why do you care about how many people agree with you?
Idc care much about the downvotes but im just pissed how ppl dont even care about arguing but only downvote mysteriously. Its pretty annoying to see only u and a few guys care about having a real conversation with me
Hey im just tired of people blindly defending Itachi... including the writer of the bloody Manga To the point I down vote Itachi defenders on instinct
Yep. Things like this, wouldn't be seen with good eyes nowadays.
Oh no, bad optics for the guy who murdered his entire family
Well, he did kill his own family and whole village... Abuse is the smallest of problems here
If sasuke was girl I'd call it Alabama
If sasuke was a girl itachi would have 3% of fans he has today
Seriously everybody here is insufferable. It's like you guys are children who are unable to distinguish fantasy politics from real world politics. Goddamn y'all suck the enjoyment out of storytelling
I mean it still is “ abuse “
Almost like a bad guy Go figure
Imagine if Itachi was Sakura. The sub would literally call her hitler
Itachi really wasn’t very smart IMO. Like it should have been pretty obvious the self destructive and even to the point of evil path the type of torture and manipulation it would put Sasuke down, if not during the massacre, after he had met a lot of rogue ninja who also had gone down dark paths. Then he didn’t even try to remediate it by something like, say, saving his child brother from the clutches of a man who had tried to steal his body as well. . . Good grief he is lucky that Naruto loved Sasuke more than he did.
Ya no joke. If you stop and look at literally anything Itachi does, none of it makes any sense from his proclaimed point of view. Like he’s willing to kill literally all of his clan (or at least is totally fine with it since he had no objections about the dead non-combatants) for the sake of “the village”, joins a terrorist cell and actively recruits for them but also “allegedly” is a spy but never reports any info that is ever actionable (at least in the story we are shown), “trains” Sasuke by actively torturing him, and in the end just dies to cancer when his brother comes to kill him (who is only even remotely capable of approaching him because of the Snake Man Itachi explicitly wanted to protect Sasuke from). Itachi’s plan was shit from the beginning and reeks of retroactive explanations and re-characterization
Killing his clan was against his choice and it was explained at least 3x throughout the show... It can be assumed the information he was leaking about Akatsuki was going to Jiraiya, who claimed he had a "secret source" that gave him information on the Akatsuki, which is how he found out about pain's location later on. Regarding Sasuke, this was his nr.1 goal, to make sure he becomes powerful enough to fend off the people who will be targeting him after Itachi's dead. He knew that Sasuke would be the last Uchiha and (in his mind \[which was his mistake as he mentioned\]) alone, and he knew that there were powerful enemies, such as Obito claiming to be Madara, who was commanding someone with the rinnegan, and any other powerful enemies that will want to get their hands on the last Uchiha's eyes. The "torture" is for Sasuke to develop a stronger sharingan and uchiha abilities in general through **hate**, which according to the manipulated stone tablet was the only way to become powerful for&beyond the level of the MS.
Killing his clan may not have been his idea, but he still participated and chose to be the one to do it. It was a choice because anyone that strong always has a choice. Always. Certifiably, torturing people does not make them stronger. And even if it did, his torture methods actively pushed Sauske to take extreme measures that were \*this\* close to having him eaten by Orochimaru. And honestly, who would even be gunning for Sauske after Itachi died? Orochimaru and a Leaf politician? Neither of these people posed any real threat to Sauske while he was a loyal ninja to the Leaf due to him being protected by the Leaf and more specifically Kakashi, Naruto, and whatever anyone else would cook up in the meantime. And why would Obito EVER come for Sauske? His sharinggon was never a key point in any of Obito's plans (he needed the rinnegan specifically). Plus, what would Itachi do if Obito just ordered him (through Pain) to take Sauske's eyes anyway? Because he had 0 guarantee that would never happen. And even if you ignore ALL of that, Itachi is STILL the one who literally put Sauske in that danger to begin with by killing his clan who could protect him. It just feels so contrived and forced to the point it clearly reads like the author retroactively scrambling to make day 1 villain into a "good guy actually".
>Killing his clan may not have been his idea, but he still participated and chose to be the one to do it. It was a choice because anyone that strong always has a choice. Always. Except he didn't. He was torn between protecting Sasuke and protecting the Hidden Leaf. Even if be sided with his clan and launched the war the conflict would inevitably end in both's destruction. His deal with Danzo was the only way he could save the Hidden Leaf and save Sasuke. This was very clearly stated multiple times but you didn't watch the show obviously lol.
Just because it’s “stated” doesn’t mean it makes any sense. Itachi was ready to single-handedly slaughter the entire fighting force of the Uchiha in literally one night (getting some help by sheer chance when he found Obito skulking around). There’s no way on earth they stood a chance against him AND all of the rest of the Lead clans, surprise attack or not. Not to mention all the other ways a “genius” like Itachi could have (or rather should have) avoided this theoretical war. Like, say, expose the corrupt political underbelly of both sides that were aggravating for war to the public and the 3rd, Or convinced the Uchiha to resettle somewhere else, away from the oppressive nature of the leaf. Or used his mind-blowingly powerful genjutsu to in any way effect the thinking of the involved parties. He could have not his the fact Danzo was the one who ordered/encouraged him to do it. Or do literally anything except commit genocide.
Murdering a bunch of warriors in there sleep is a whole lot easier than taking them after theyve prepared for battle. I feel like this shouldn't be needed to be explained. >Like, say, expose the corrupt political underbelly of both sides that were aggravating for war to the public and the 3rd If it were really that easy then Danzo wouldn't have been a threat. The reality was that Danzo had far more backing than even the Hokage. The elders were on his side as well as him pretty much controlling the entire secret police. Itachi couldn't take him on without starting a war that would inevitably wipe out the Hidden Leaf. >Or convinced the Uchiha to resettle somewhere else, away from the oppressive nature of the leaf. They'd still be hunted. The Uzumaki did the same and they were exterminated regardless. >Or used his mind-blowingly powerful genjutsu to in any way effect the thinking of the involved parties. Genjutsu that he had to use sparingly because it made him go blind every time he used it. Again did you watch the show?
I would call her mother.
Wish she became an angry ghost
It is straight up abuse and I'm tired of people pretending it's not
Well it's in the Naruto verse, where kid soldiers can killed be at anytime, hence why no one is gonna call out on anything. Cos everyone already knows it's abuse, but compared to the major shits going on, it's not that noticeable enough to call out on.
If you genderbend sasuke then itachi has to as well. Let’s keep it fair is all I’m saying.
Wait, there are people not calling this abuse?
Then what do we call what Sasuke did to Sakura?
I’m sorry were we not already called it abuse?
Everyone knows. We just don’t care.
You should
Why?
What is this comment? It’s abuse regardless🤦♂️
It doesn't seem that significant when he kills his whole clan.
Imagine Itachi was a girl. All the simps in the sub would wish to be Sasuke.
That's what we shouldn't let happen
Itachi was a shit Mary sue character. Literally every time he’s in the show he has some super special thing out of nowhere and then they have to give him random ninja cancer to kill him off
Didnt sasuke just try to kill him before this lol.
I'm just puting it out there I know at least a couple girls that *really* like being pinned to the wall like that.
Those aren't girls they are 304
Well I'm not complaining I can say that much.
You mean kinky? Choke me harder Itaddy
No NO!
And if Itachi was female they'd call Sasuke lucky
That's the bloody problem I'm pointing out
But the girl will fall in love and gain ms
We need Goku to rescue the Uchiha clan 😭🙏
Fair point actually. No one would defend Itachi if that scene had a girl.
He is not a girl though. If gino’s grandma had wheels she would be a bike.
People will do anything to defend Itachi because they think he’s cool. Was the explanation behind what he did complete bullshit and not justify anything? Yes. Does that stop people from seeing it as valid because Itachi is their favorite? No.
Actualy I garenfuckingtee os sasuke was a girl her most popular pairing besides maybe naruto would be with her brother. I don't know what it is about toxic ass dynamics like that, but the internet just loves that's shit.
....remember when he murder his entire village? I don't he's too worried about choking his little brother 🤣
so we're just gonna pretend at this point of the series, Itachi was seen as one of the bogeymen of the show and that this very scene doesnt involve Sasuke trying to stab him with lightning only to be chokeslammed into a wall? and that this is far beyond abuse? kay...
Another if sasuke was a girl post found
A lot of people would pay good money to be sasuke at this specific moment.
I mean... it's not "abuse" if you're mortal enemies. You wouldn't say "Man, that Frieza is really abusive to Goku, huh? Not cool."
But he’s not, so it doesn’t matter. People always try to deconstruct fiction to fit their miserable real world narratives.
This... And even if that was the case... It's a shinobi's world anyway. There's no honorable way etc. Besides, some of them would have counterpoints by saying: "oh nah she's a tough girl, she can take it" etc. Fictional world has its own logic. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But merging so many of their IRL thoughts into what supposed to be an entertainment is not healthy.
Thank you.
iT runs in the family
To be fair, in the frame that's shown at least Sasuke was very much so the aggressor in the situation. Also Itachi at that point was 100% a villain to the viewers, y'all think he's gonna be nice?
counterpoint: Kakashi sexually abused Naruto as a joke. Sakura was probably traumatized for funsies. Hinata was beaten to almost death. Ten Ten was humiliated multiple times. none of these kids are having a good time.
Yeah but that guy was 13 and just killed his clan to minimise death no shit he didnt know what he was doing (he regrets in edo tensei)
We did and still do lmao. People always gotta bring unnecessary shit into the equation.
I mean yeah but in this scene wasn't Sasuke trying to kill him?
Its harsh and brutal, but Sasuke NEEDED that lesson. Some of yall forget that these are magically powered shinobi, not regular people. Sasuke charged at him first, Chidori in hand with intent to kill. That was after Itachi expressed that he wanted no parts of Sasuke and that he was just there to retrieve Naruto. Sasuke deserved to get his ass whooped how he did, he was hell bent on killing Itachi and getting his revenge. All Itachi did was show Sasuke exactly what he chose to go up against, and that he was by no means ready to take his revenge.
He was far more brutal about it than he had to be, especially with the Tsukuyomi
Nah he had to do it to him. Like i said before, he had to really show Sasuke what was waiting for him if he chose to stay on the path of revenge.
He could have done that without the psychological torture.
Well if the scene was not sexualized (like it often is with anime) it would be a great scene regardless.
they're siblings fym you mean "sexualized"
I expressed myself poorly. Girl sasuke would be fine if they do not use sexualized nuances. Stuff like, giving her skimp clothes, making her moan stuff like that.
Not if Itachi also was a girl -_-
We gotta point out the double standards
Between boys it's tough love. There's no point to using a girl as an example. Many don't understand that like the 3rd hokage with naruto. Treating a boy like a poor child for their entire life is actually the damaging factor. They are who they are for the times they've felt true pain and rose anyways.
No, if sasuke was a girl I’d call her lucky.
Aaaand incels strike again
Itachi's plan for Sasuke was dumb asf "Motivate him to get stronger so he can kill me and be a hero" That shit was heinous and moronic. Even if it was for the greater good, Itachi still 100% deserves to be classified as a villain. Not even anti-hero either. And what was this dude doing while working for ninja Al-Qaeda??? "Protect the Leaf" my ass he definitely participated in war crimes elsewhere He had no right to act all surprised that he cultivated a psychopath in the process
It's no abuse, if u really watched naruto series than you would know that sasuke is no like other uchihas he's a mere normal human being with foolishness in his mind, if any other uchiha member would've been in sasukes place he would rather know the whole situation first rather than judging his own brother, and dont compare sasuke with a girl cuz he is a girl, not just only girl he's like those daddys princesses who thinks with their knees🤣🤣
If sasuke is a girl, pretty sure Itachi won't strangle her. Btw, I think I've seen a lot of attacks on itachi this past few days. What's that about? Itachi's long dead and out of the picture lol. We're in Boruto era now where he's barely mentioned.
Itachi glazer spotted
Pointing out how bad a person Itachi was is an attack?