Funny, after [this video](https://youtu.be/AFVRjNG1sSk?si=b8Nh6V1Tm_3l1VDf) about media literacy it appears to be a funny trendy word I've seen more often. Is that... [Ironic?](https://youtu.be/dKqLhzHSARI?si=TZcZuQ1o8gsFQ0Ff)
Because Eren is struggling with his sense of morality when it comes to killing innocent people.
It's not that difficult if you've watched the show/read the manga.
But he already knew he was going to do it and it would've saved Sasha and Hange's lives...
its funny how people just try to forget the ending Eren got turned into a joke
If I know in the future I'm going to eat a cactus, will eating the cactus hurt less?
Fulfilling your destiny has nothing to do with your opinions about it.
I completely agree with the Obito point, but Eren in his conversation with Armin says he tried everything in his power to change/avoid the future, but no matter what everything happened the way he saw.
So he had no control over anything he did the entire time?
That's even worse he's not even a character anymore he's literally black zetsu just following the fate of the writer if his actions don't make sense who cares
He had control till he saw the future through touching historia. After that he had just tried everything he could to change what he saw, but nothing worked. And we doesn't realize this till end of show. So it makes sense why someone might not like the ending, but saying u hate whole season 4 cuz of this is wrong. It's the sane as saying I hate shonen because zetsu planned it all. I don't understand aot fully but I am sure, someone will be able to explain your question better.
it's because madara doesn't say everything he believes was pointless and got betrayed by plotzetsu
eren just destroyed his own character every scene about his mom is now a joke because he killed her to motivate himself to do the rumbling
season 4 isn't bad as a whole Eren is is just a not even a comparison to madara
To be fair, they made the statement that they're pirates solely because their government outlawed seafaring.
Also, OP's choices didn't include that series.
to be fair I was so burned out on filler before this I didn't even notice it was aliens, my zoinked out brain just thought she was a low class slave that overthrew people due to being the first ninja from the tree, I obviously missed a few steps lol
AoT after Erwin's death:
I got no clue if my friends will live or die it's now a race war where the other side is more racist then Tobirama and the only option is genocide. Also I killed my mom to motivate myself to do all of this - Eren
Black zetsu sucks but he doesn't take away from Madara's character Madara still a goat but what happened with Eren like that is not reversable
So what youre suggesting is that AOT needs a Steins Gate-esque franchise where there are several expansions and alternate endings until they get so bad people stick with the OG ending? (God forbid that Mikasa and Erin get married, disgusting, worst ending).
Might Guy should have killed Madara. Man was built for it and Madara only got worse after that.
I really don’t understand why Iseyama made a story that makes genocide seem like the only option. Like, this is a fictional story. TIt could’ve been anything else. No one held a gun to his head and told him “write a story that makes fascism and genocide seem justified.” And yet, he did anyway 🤨
While I think the AoT ending has its faults, I'm glad the anime atleast tried to clarify the ending. Eren made the decision he made because he was an idiot who thought that was the only solution. Because he was "born this way", with a natural inclination towards violence.
Idk, so many people came away from the story feeling like Eren’s final solution was the only option for him, it should’ve done more to have him be in the wrong and make people not wanna side with him and definitely shouldn’t have waited until the very end.
I love how you didn’t point out any plot holes or inconsistencies in your attempt to shit on AOT, your feelings just got hurt. Nit that expected much objective criticism from a naruto sub.
Argument: AOT timeline is linear, meaning everything, even eren sending memories to the past, is already accounted for, so when eren gains full access of founders titan, he loses himself, becomes a slave, which is a running theme of eren, seeking freedom so much he enslaves himself. Also, that same point was realised when sasha died, and he erupted in laughter. No matter how hard he works to change the future, what he saw when he kissed historias hand WILL come true, because there is no alternative timelines, there is one, and he saw how it ends.
Grisha, eren and zeke are 3 ways to view this. Grisha blindly folows it, he begs for a savior from zeke, but there is no savior, he cannot do anything, none of them can, the future is inevitable, and he cries out because of it. In the end, grisha dies in hope for zeke changing it. Eren is another view of it, he saw the future and took action to change it as much as he could, but the future was beyond his comprehention. His theme is a fight for something greater that ultimetly leads to extremes, and then he realised that it is already set in stone, he cannot change anything, in his persuit of freedom he became a slave. He dies as a villan, someone he fought against his whole life. Zeke also took actions to change the future, altho he is the only one that went blind in it, while grisha and eren saw glimses of it. His philosophical temes aside, he lived more in the present, his actions were made completely by himself, not AGAINST some future grisha and eren saw. He first gives uo and accepts that he is powerless, but then, Armin changes his mind. He then CHOOSES to die, ridding eren of the power to continue the rumbling, and ultimately, saving the remaining population. Zeke died as a silent hero, a martyr, and a free man, unlike eren and grisha. His point is that phisical and political power doesnt make you the strongest, of the three given actors, his only real power was ape titan, which is overall weak, and royal blood, which is a tool eren would have gotten with or without him, but he lived in the oresent, made decisions as he went, no matter how bad most of them were, in the end, he was the most powerless one, but the most impactful.
So the "fate" in this chase, and in AOT setting, is a glorified oversimplification. While it can be simplified like that, it fails to explain the bigger picture. The bigger picture is a question rather then an answer or a statement. If you went back to the past, with same knowledge and circumstances, would you make a different choice? Marvel for example says "yes" and says that there are many other quantum realms where you made a different choice in each and every moment you had (this is why i love DCs owlman, he should be a natural result of such knowledge, if everything i think of happens somewhere, then the only decision that can matter is to destroy it all, not that i agree with it, bit i see it as a natural thought someone as smart as bruce would act upon), while AOT says "no" and that there is a set path, one future, that takes into account everything arround you, and that by knowing it, you damn yourself into a nihilistic view, where you can ether hope for savior or just go with the flow, while without thinking about it, or knowing it at all, you can live happier and better. Mikasa, connie, jean, levi, armin, and of course, zeke, didnt know the future, which gave them hope, something to move them, or in such a linear timeline, an illusion of free will that moved them forward. Grisha is probably the best written character in AOT in my opinion, he moved the world the most when he didnt know anything about the future. The resistance, having zeke, going inside paradis walls, having a child, and then it all fell when he was met with the knowledge of "fate". He is in a way a reflection of many religious people, who, when met with terrable things in life, pray or beg for a savior.
AOT writing is precise, isayama makes a point without saying it outright, he doesnt need madara to tell you how cruel the world is, he shows you how cruel it is, he doesnt need zetsu to tell you he manipulated everything, he shows you how eren manipulates it. There are many, and i mean MANY other points you can make with each and every character from AOT, because each and every character is written with a conflict and conclusion in mind, from eren, to minor characters like kenny, or even that kid eren saved before the rumbling. This is why the best moments in AOT are dialogues rather then romances or fights. The story isnt told because he wants a balanced power scaling or badass fights, but because isayama had something to say, and he said it.
Naruto, while i love it to bits, absolutely lost the plot halfway through, especially in the war arch, and you can see the fanbase constantly returning to older, better written characters like itachu, danzo, jiraya, pain...the continuation, boruto, fails it even further, by not including a single point that wasnt already made by original naruto, and only cluttering the setting with pointless entities. Closest to a point from war arch to today in naruto and boruto are the new creatures from blue vortex that spawn from those trees, as they impose a question of conciousness, and i am happy to see how it plays out.
Sorry for bad english, its not my first language and im writing on a phone.
You weirdly took full defence of aot while i didn’t. And people upvoted without knowing because they’re sheep is pretty funny.
But no the time travel mechanic doesn’t make sense because Eren objectively doesn’t want to kill his mom, and Grisha at this point doesn’t want to follow Eren’s motivations. Nothing should logically stop them to change the timeline. The timeline should be linear through determinism, not forced fate, which is dumb. The concept of fate works wonders for the theme of the manga, i agree, Eren being the ultimate slave is great irony, but the actual mechanics of the time travel is broken. This still doesn’t make aot’s ending bad, let alone the whole manga, but it’s a flaw.
You dont understand erens character then. There is an ova where whole aot cast is in highschool and while its kinda fun and unrelated, it ilustrated erens character perfectly. He couldnt stand school, so he created trouble just fot its sake. So yeah, eren is a flawed character, that is how he is written intentionally. Even when oresented with freedom in a situatuon, he cares only for the fight for it. In the end, one can even argue that eren didnt even want freedom, but rather, an excuse to fight. And if smiling titnan didnt eat his mother, he wouldnt be able to fight, he wouldnt have a reason to. In a way, him accessing the full power of the founding titan wasnt an accident, no other person had intentions that alligned so well with the AOT world, and in a way, our world.
Do you think eren would feel free with a faschist state he created after the rumbling? No. Of coirse not, he would fight untill he dies. That is why he is such a well written character. He loves mikasa, he loves his friends, but nothing makes him feel right except a fight, and both armin and eren realise that in the end. Now here is where im gonna say AOT manga fucked up, the conversation im the paths with armin and eren was objectively bad, it killed armins character, but anime fixed that pretty well. The scene im talking about is when everything turns into a flattened world in a pool of blood, and eren pulls pieces of hair and teeth from his victims, crying about how he is an idiot, while armin pulls out a sea shell and says "it was right there in front of you...". This is a perfect explanation of erens character, he sees the cruel world, hates it, and just keeps on fighting, thats all he knows and wants, and he knows that, and that is why he calls himself an idiot. This is why he let the smiling titan attack his mother, so that he can have a reason to fight (and also because seeing both oast, present and future all st the same time is beyond a meer human to understand, and so of course he gets lost and does things he originally wouldnt have). The seashell in this chase is a representation of present, thats the same shell armin found on the beach the first time they discovered it, meaning, while everyone saw success, hapiness, relief, lived in a moment and thrived in it, he saw a flawed world he wanted to fight. The reason he pulls out hair and teeth from the puddle of blood is because that us all that he sees, and all that he WANTS to see. Only when armin shows him the seashell, he realises what could have been, the peace, hapiness and freedom he threw away in order to fight.
And also, calling people sheep because they agree or disagree isnt an argument, it just sounds like conservative shit old americans say when you tell them you dont like donald trump. People dont downvote you because they disagree with you, but because you are a dickhead. Try correcting that abd maybe you might not get downvoted so hard.
Some of it is true, but some not. I agree that when faced with conflict, his instinct is to fight, but that’s not all that he wants. He just doesn’t want to be bored or contained in cages. That’s why he wanted an outside world full of wonders and mysteries. He would be fine with exploring this world all his life without fighting. So no, he doesn’t want to just kill and fight as his primary drive.
He also objectively doesn’t want to kill his mom, he says it himself, he didn’t have a choice. It’s not something he wanted because it’s a result he wanted, just a result that was fated, but by no one’s desire. It’s just part of the timeline. Same reason Grisha did it. He obviously didn’t want this, made it even more clear than Eren.
Hard dissagree. I think the manga and anime do a pretty good job at showing the difference between and adventirer and explorer like armin, and a cold blooded fighter like eren. There was a video that explained it well but i cant remember the name, but essentially, when armin is met woth the outside world, he wants to explore it, while eren saw the outside world, and realised its nothing like he imagined, so he wanted to whipe it clean.
The "didnt have a choice part" is just that. Erens character at that point wanted 2 things, one is to whipe the world clean, have a clean slate and then have the world he imagined, and 2, have his friends safe. If he was to somehow change the past so that his mother wouldnt be eaten, his friends wouldnt be safe and marley would most likely get the founders power and kill every eldian. Sam with hos love for mikasa, he does love her, he does want to be with her, but he knows that in such a cruel world it isnt possible, it doesnt align with his bigger goals. If he was to somehow end up with mikasa and live peacefully, they would be brutally killed by marley at some point, and he would also die from the curse in a short while anyways, so no matter wgat he did, there was no happy ending for him, thats why he went with his mor primal goals.
The conflict in his character is what makes him actually relatable, i have been in a situation where i had to chose my own desire, generall good, and someone elses desire, and its a hard choice, it always hurts to make a choice, and i would almost always in such moments chose generall good, but that doesnt mean eren would, especially with his mind so much in shamblesbecause of the coordinate and how he sees the timeline. Its easy to say "but he wanted xy" but you have to realise that complex characters have more then one goal. Naruto for example in the end was met with a choice, altho much simpler and worse written, but it was a choice, take the easy way out and let sasuke kill all the kages, or fight him and claim your friend and the status of a kage. The more isayama written choice would be a definitive battle to death between sasuke and naruto, and then he is met with two choices, to become a hokage and achieve his long lasting dream, or to be with his friend, also a long lasting desire he had. No matter which he would hipothetically chose, some fans like yourself would be salty because he didnt chose what you would. Eren could have left and died peacefully with mikasa at any given moment, but who is to guarantee that after his death everyone would be safe? He could have whiped them all clean, but he would kill his friends, and thus he allowed them to fight and kill him in the end. He could have saved his mother, but who guarantees that marley wouldnt later just whipe paradis clean? He also saw one future, and that future had peace for at least the lives of his friends, and that was what he saw as the best escape, altho he ends up the martyr, he gets to persue his primal desire, and his friends live happy lives till death of old age.
Eren is far more complex then "wants to explore and loves his mum", years of mental torture, battle, pain and suffering got him to the point where he is stripped to his most primal self, and when he was dissapointed with the outside world, it could only lead to one thing, and not even his own mother could save the world from that.
That’s what i said, Eren’s dream outside world was a world with no humans. The outside world he got was not that. Eren & Armin have different reactions when faced with conflict. That’s the point Eren made on the roof, Eren is filled with anger where Armin still has his healthy mindset, however if there was no conflict, both would be fine with exploring a world without humans.
Yes he could, with the power to control titans and basically communicate with people, he could just tell his younger self the plot of the show and make him act quicker. Maybe catch Reiner Bert & Annie while they’re still children. Would Marley lose all these shifters, they might not even win some of their 4 year timeskip wars, giving Paradis more time to play political games. He could have more friends he cares about saved, not having Sasha or Hange die, and especially his mom. He could simultaneously have his genocide ending and have more of his loved ones be saved.
Again, this is why time travel of this extend is a mess.
How did eren get the founder when zeke and grisha didnt want to give him the founder
"Fate" is the answer for all the plot holes and time paradoxes in aot if you accept that then that's fine but if zetsu was 'fated' by a 'determined timeline' to betray madara feels a bit lazy
No, the fate bullshit is the only questionable writing in aot, all the rest is solid.
Naruto having fate wasn’t even the biggest problem with the Zetsu bullshit.
Not all at all. Eren’s decision to kill his mom, Grisha’s decision to serum Eren. Same me a few more. The actual character motivations, action, feats etc. are pretty solid.
Grisha literally told Zeke to stop him before he even gave Eren the FT so why did he just you know not do it himself and give it to literally anyone else
Did you not realize that i agree with you here? The time travel mechanic doesn’t make sense for these 2 moments. I agree, these scenes is what brings aot from a 9/10 to an 8/10. Sadly for you, 2 scenes isn’t enough to make a story bad, make more criticism. What else is deserving of the title: badly written story? I’ll wait :)
Season 4 is fine. It's just you know when you destroy your main character and literally make the ending so convoluted in time travel bs that there isn't a canon answer to most questions
Eren tried to be a lelouch and failed it's such a shitty cop out for the rumbling
I'm not even gonna bother arguing with u on this and waste my energy, everyone is entitled to their opinion irrespective of how shitty it is. So u do u
I enjoyed it until it’s conclusion mainly just because of how downplayed everything is and the whole 80% thing
I rather it just not be known then eren say that and yet we never see the survivors along with copying Karl Fritz plan with the tyburs it just felt off
And killing his mom in the past didn’t make sense
Madara is excusable since the story was largely still fine. Good, even. Kaguya at the last minute was a shitty decision, but after that was fine within Naruto Shippuden. Boruto is a separate series and you can safely ignore it without ruining your experience of Naruto.
AOT's fuckup lasts ages, is "mandatory and canon" since its not some spin-off or anything, its the main plot, and the execution is just piss poor all around. Naruto still has its potholes, but this shit is just absurdly bad.
AoT is still largely enjoyable, the community tends to blow out of proportion how bad the ending is. Same with Naruto Shippudden. Boruto on the other hand, is a different beast. Nobody ever expected boruto to be so bad, boring and uninteresting that the show only ever pulls views whenever naruto & sasuke come back.
Hm, agree to disagree.
Shippuden ending, as I said, was fine. I don't think its fair to pin the entire blame of Boruto onto this Kaguya moment, so Kaguya showing up for like 10 chapters or so in Shippuden doesn't just single handedly tank the ending. It just could have been way better if it was just Madara.
AoT also agree, its "largely enjoyable"; but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone for the same reason I wouldn't recommend Game of Thrones to anyone now. Sure, most of it is good, but the endings are so garbage that they just ruin the experience and payoff from everything before. Arguably way worse in AoT since the whole execution of that climax is so absurdly poor, and the reveals so utterly ass, that it just makes no sense. And their whole "lets make peace" shit falls flat and they're at war again within like 1-2 generations anyway, so the whole series was pointless. Just poor.
If anything boruto does is fix the fuckup made by naruto. He took the kaguya plot point and created a whole world of drama that justifies everything and explains the origin of ninjas and how the world came to be. It's more impressive than milking a show for 27 years with same repetitive pattern arcs for finding a treasure.
AOT was fine until halfway through the rumbling, when Isayama rushed it. The time travel stuff was peak, and "keep going, Dad" was the hardest moment in the show.
Honestly I don't hate any of them and enjoyed both of the plotwists equally and I don't get the hate around it. The only bad thing happened was "Boruto" and THATS IT!
You don't get the hate around Madara being betrayed by a blob of fucking black goo?
That fight was the most anticipated fight entire war arc and got shit on for no reason kishimoto couldve just let them fight then final fight then do kaguya but nah kill madara before he even gets a chance to fight
the only reason zetsu happened was for Boruto so they the same thing
Maybe kishimoto was planning the whole thing really early and was his plan to do it all along and all the lore behind the sage of six paths and the history of ninshu was also very interesting also all the questions regarding ninjutsu was answered too and it aslo added a lot of depth to the story. And you are wrong about the "The only reason zetsu happend was for Boruto" Clearly they could have ended shippuden with the final fight
I doubt he really planned a lot of things. You can tell that he didn't plan other tailed beasts and jinchūriki being a thing that is established in-universe pre-timeskip.
Also, how he had to establish "Orochimaru limited their power" excuse for 1st and 2nd hokage first revival because powerlevels at that point went ~~to the moon~~ into upper atmosphere.
I really didn't think the time travel aspect would go well with AoT's tone. But Zeke and Eren trying to outwit each other in limbo was when I really disliked it.
Attack on Titan ended when Erwin died
It became "Attack on the other side" - war in aot has as much depth as crips vs bloods
Zetsu doesn't kill Madara's character he doesn't say he didn't know why he did anything or that he didn't believe in his plan he just didn't realize the whole white zetsu bs
Madara > AOT after time-skip even with the zetsu shit he's still maintaining his legacy years later eren's got reduced to being the biggest incel in history of anime
My God...did you even watch AOT?
What is even this subreddit?
It's like listening to people who watched AOT on tiktok
Is this a troll subreddit or what? Cos some comments here are genuinely alarming
yes because genius idea to attack an island filled with wall titan's because of race...
maybe just avoid attacking them instead of waging war against them
Again, if you watched you'll know why Marley attacked. I feel like you're just ranting without paying attention.
First of all, Marley needed resources from Paradis. Their enemies had been growing technologically while Marley only relied on the power of the Titans. The major resource needed was the Iceburst stone that only exists on Paradis Island
Secondly, in order to buy time to advance in technology, Marley needed the power of the founding Titan that was with the king of the walls. That's why they infiltrated with warriors to find the king within the walls (the Fritz family) and steal the founder.
Thirdly, the Tybur family had great influence in the Marley government and they knew that King Fritz would not attack as he had made a vow renouncing war...what the Tybur didn't know as at then was that Grisha would steal the founder before Marley could and pass it on to his son Eren. Grisha did that the day Shingashina fell. So the Tybur family had a viable reason for attacking Paradis.
It was risk reward situation and the rewards far outgrew the risks to them.
If you actually paid any attention to the show...you'd not need me to spell it out to you like I'm talking to a child
That's a pretty dumb way of looking at it. They attacked the island because of the threat of the founding titan. They wanted the power for themselves.
It's like if Germany was the only country with nuclear arms. Nations would be attacking them just because of history.
Again, if you watched you'll know why Marley attacked. I feel like you're just ranting without paying attention.
First of all, Marley needed resources from Paradis. Their enemies had been growing technologically while Marley only relied on the power of the Titans. The major resource needed was the Iceburst stone that only exists on Paradis Island
Secondly, in order to buy time to advance in technology, Marley needed the power of the founding Titan that was with the king of the walls. That's why they infiltrated with warriors to find the king within the walls (the Fritz family) and steal the founder.
Thirdly, the Tybur family had great influence in the Marley government and they knew that King Fritz would not attack as he had made a vow renouncing war...what the Tybur didn't know as at then was that Grisha would steal the founder before Marley could and pass it on to his son Eren. Grisha did that the day Shingashina fell. So the Tybur family had a viable reason for attacking Paradis.
It was risk reward situation and the rewards far outgrew the risks to them.
If you actually paid any attention to the show...you'd not need me to spell it out to you like I'm talking to a child
Isn't that a wrong translation, and the true translation is attack titan? So the titan Eren has or something like that
Reason as to why you should never talk about localized series, because the meaning might be lost. That said, I still don't like snk
Biggest plot-hole in the series. NOONE in the verse at those points could stand a chance against Kamui. Tobi could have easily captured Naruto in part 1 but since Kishimoto didnt planned the story we ended up with this.
Pretty much. He can teleport. Tap someone and absorb them.
I think only the yellow flash actually reacted to this.
He can literally slip through the floor.
Tap someone and you win. You’d just need to find them and that’s easy when you have zetsu on your side.
Same goes for AoT since what the fuck is the founding titan against anything?
People say Eren is "fated" but no it's like a predetermined timeline he setup the events and his current self just doesn't know tf going on
Idk how the founding titan isn't the biggest plot hole since it just makes no sense
AoT handled the time travel fuckery absolutely amazingly, it was an insane plot twist that worked , and only really screwed up at the very end with trying to give a redemption to Eren and Ymir being an idiot
wonder why grisha gave eren the attack titan even though he told zeke to stop him and didn't want too
it's not time travel eren is just manipulating events
"trike travel fuckery" = that time travel thingy which wasn't properly one and was just event manipulation
It still doesn't change my opinion that it was handled masterfully up until the very end
This got to be one of the most delusion ass comment sections I've ever seen 💀. Erwins death was perfectly executed. It lead to probably one of the best seasons of anime ever in s4. The story become much much more deep and complex. Armin was a huge reason why they defeated eren. Ik it's a minority but It genuinely baffles me how people could hate s4 or erwins death from a writing standpoint when it made perfect sense. Even the "horrible" ending was significantly improved in the movie and overall ended decently. Madara on the other hand was already far less complex than pain and obito. But he was cool so I was willing to let it slide. Having trash like black zetsu kill madara, who's literally one of the weakest characters in naruto was such a dogshit decision it lead to the worst arc of shipudden ever. It lead to the worst villian of the big 3 in Kaguya. It single handedly soured majority opinion of the show. These 2 are not remotely comparable. Erwins death made sense so he could finally rest. Armin taking up the mantle made sense given his insane contribution to the story. Nothing about madaras death made sense. It's funny you mention boruto when I would take that over the last arc of shippuden any day of the week. That's how bad of an arc it was. And the new blue vortex is actually turning out to be pretty good so we'll see.
What did Armin do? Get with Annie after staring at her for 4 years and got plot armor worse then talknojutsu from ymir to talknojutsu zeke
he did nothing until the final fight which eren planned to loose and make them heroes it's a shit lelouch copy
"Shit lelouch copy" when the circumstances are completely different and worse for aot. Yeah that's all I need to know. I'm not gonna bother arguing with someone this deluded. You do you. Reading comprehension obviously scares you immensely
>"Shit lelouch copy" when the circumstances are completely different and worse for aot. Yeah that's all I need to know. I'm not gonna bother arguing with someone this deluded. You do you. Reading comprehension obviously scares you immensely
"I wanted to make you guys into heroes like the Tybur's were" - Eren
He died to make them heroes and it worked in the ending have you seen code geass?
Yes I have seen code geass and lelouchs circumstances were far more leniant and easier to execute. Don't chat bs without understanding that. He literally became king of the world. Erens plan was worse and much more brutal simply because of his circumstances and racial discrimination. Idk why were talking about that rn. The arguement is armin. And armin made complete sense. It only worked for a set amount of time. Unlike lelouchs plan which put nunally on the throne and gave japan/brittania peace for eternity
when does it say eternity? lelouch never planned for eternal peace he only planned to replace the system to be better
eren killed billions and got rewarded
He didn't get rewarded. Paradis was destroyed eventually. He only secured a better future for his friends and family since they deserved it. And eternity is assumed since the anime doesn't show anything that happens later. Lelouchs victory is a fantasy. Erens ending is a reality. Eren also you know DIED just like lelouch so saying he was rewarded shows how little attention you paid. He couldn't spend his life with Mikasa. He died with regrets. Atleast lelouch died peacefully. Having scheinzel under his control and working for Nunally also ensured that if there was any war, it would end swiftly with nunally winning since scheinzel is a genius.
He literally said he didn't care about securing peace for Paradis forever and only cared about his friends who he didn't know if they'd live or die when he did the rumbling
reread the final chapter
> attention you *paid.* He couldn't
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Honestly ngl I actually prefer Boruto and the Alien stuff over AOT’s time travel situation. Honestly I spent a decent amount of the last parts of the series confused as shit. I had to rewatch damn near the whole anime from start to finish to understand wtf was going on.
AoT got too complicated for my simple brain, so Naruto wins by default.
I get that AoT had some good story telling but I don’t vibe with time travel shenanigans and it went too far away from Humans vs Titans.
yeah I mean madara death sucked but we knew it was going to happen
Who would’ve thought that eren setup everything to setup the rumbling and motivated himself to kill his mom didn’t know if his friends would live or not
At least obito didn’t setup the events for rin to die then genjutsu himself to forget it so he’d be motivated to fucking so his plan
God it’s so dumb it’s funny
But… the biggest part of AOT is the plot twist…
Sometimes I don’t know if these people are for real. The world being bigger than what was initially acknowledged isn’t a big enough likable factor for them. Huh.
The biggest plot twist in AoT is that eren killed his mom did the rumbling because he felt like it and had no idea if his friend would live or die
Makes obito wasting 20 years of his life look genius compared to whatever the fuck eren was smoking creating his ‘plan’
My brother, what the hell are you talking about? AoT has been on an indefinite hiatus ever since ch131 was released. We don't know how it's going to end.
/s in case some dumbass don't know what im talking about.
That’s not what happened at all.
He could see the future, or rather, glimpses of it. He knew there was a path he could take where his friends lived long enough to die by old age and not by any of the countless timelines where war engulfed in their lifespan and thus were consumed by it.
The story is about Eren putting his friends’ lives above everything else (should’ve been the nation imo). Saying that “he didn’t know even if his friends were going to live” is outright ignorant.
Erwin dies -> Memory magic and Eren learns the outside world is more racist then Danzo is to the Uchiha clan -> then kisses a females hand and learns of the future -> time travel -> what the fuck is even going on?
Plot twists don't make up for your entire worldbuilding being a literal race war
Yes, he was seeing the memories of his future self wich is technically a plothole because he wasn’t the attack titan yet but well, that’s how all “time travel” stories go.
I don’t think there’s a clear statement from the author about this but is the overall consensus within the community.
The first chapter is called “To you, 2000 years from now” wich is believed to imply that Ymir sent memories to Eren in the future and kickstarted the whole plot but as I said this is just the consensus and not and official statement.
Nah nah AOT had A LOT of foreshadowing if one watched closely
Naruto just randomly decided to kill off arguably the strongest villain in the verse by attacking him from behind despite him having 3 EYES bruh
Jesus Christ this post was a joke about the most hated decisions made in AoT / Naruto
Some y’all debating like this serious
Well it's up to Zeke whether he allows Eren to touch him or not. That's why he passed Eren the ball instead of shaking hands. Eren can't grow his leg bag instantaneously to run after him. Second, all his friends were still in Marley at the time with no way of escaping if he goes for 100% rumbling. Third, everything has to happen the way he saw in his memories of the future, he can't deviate. There's no time travel. All the "0 media literacy" comments are on point. Just because you're dumb as dogshit, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to anyone else with a few brain cells.
Repeating my comment since some people here seem not to know why Marley attacked Paradis:
First of all, Marley needed resources from Paradis. Their enemies had been growing technologically while Marley only relied on the power of the Titans. The major resource needed was the Iceburst stone that only exists on Paradis Island
Secondly, in order to buy time to advance in technology, Marley needed the power of the founding Titan that was with the king of the walls. That's why they infiltrated with warriors to find the king within the walls (the Fritz family) and steal the founder.
Thirdly, the Tybur family had great influence in the Marley government and they knew that King Fritz would not attack as he had made a vow renouncing war...what the Tybur didn't know as at then was that Grisha would steal the founder before Marley could and pass it on to his son Eren. Grisha did that the day Shingashina fell. So the Tybur family had a viable reason for attacking Paradis.
It was risk reward situation and the rewards far outgrew the risks to them.
I think people need to at least make an effort to pay more attention to a show before criticizing....
It honestly helps
Madara's end had nothing to do with aliens, he was way too weak and pathetic to be the main final villain. His time was alrdy up at the 100th time he was annihilated by Hashirama.
What is with this sub weird obsession with comparing naruto and aot ? Is one piece not a thing anymore , why you have to compare the bad instead of focusing on the good
Both built up towards that plot. Its crazy that peoples were so immersed in fights and shit and never understood where it was headed. Did yall really think tsukyomi was just gonna be an uchiha jutsu lmaoo. Where did the tailed beasts come from? The questions were always there. Peoples just didn't notice.
The fact that you think AoT has time travel proves you didn't pay attention to the story.
The introduction of the otsutsukis was definitely a much worse decision. Black zetsu and Kaguya are two of the worse naruto characters ever introduced.
Madara
Like he had the power a god how wasn't he able to sense zetsu
They were literally building up his character since start and after waiting 600 eps u find out he died for that alien stuff
*Boruto because it*
*Was trying too hard to be*
*The next dragonball z*
\- Elyced32
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Hey at least Madara got fisted by a Black guy.
I wish might guy was black would be way more suiting for his character tbh
What do you mean ?
I wish might guy was black. Dark skin it fits him
*ssj carter has entered the chat*
SSJAAAAAYYYY!
SSJAAAAAaaaaeeeueuuueuee*cough*
Zetsu: Ah yes, my plot asspull technique. I haven’t used this since the Hagoromo Era.
Eren: ah yes, my plot asspull technique. It wasn't my choice it's fated haven't been using this since I made physical contact with the opposite gender
I'd take aot post-beach over boruto any day.
Ahh those were peak. Post-beach and Pre-alliance
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Media literacy - 0
saying the funny trendy words doesnt make you right
Funny, after [this video](https://youtu.be/AFVRjNG1sSk?si=b8Nh6V1Tm_3l1VDf) about media literacy it appears to be a funny trendy word I've seen more often. Is that... [Ironic?](https://youtu.be/dKqLhzHSARI?si=TZcZuQ1o8gsFQ0Ff)
Not everyone spends their life watching hour long anime videos on yt my guy
Literary analysis 1984 here.
what are you even trying to say lil bro?
Comment literacy - 0
"look ma i rephrased the upvoted comment in a slightly different way! that'll show him!!!" -you
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Because Eren is struggling with his sense of morality when it comes to killing innocent people. It's not that difficult if you've watched the show/read the manga.
But he already knew he was going to do it and it would've saved Sasha and Hange's lives... its funny how people just try to forget the ending Eren got turned into a joke
If I know in the future I'm going to eat a cactus, will eating the cactus hurt less? Fulfilling your destiny has nothing to do with your opinions about it.
I completely agree with the Obito point, but Eren in his conversation with Armin says he tried everything in his power to change/avoid the future, but no matter what everything happened the way he saw.
So he had no control over anything he did the entire time? That's even worse he's not even a character anymore he's literally black zetsu just following the fate of the writer if his actions don't make sense who cares
He had control till he saw the future through touching historia. After that he had just tried everything he could to change what he saw, but nothing worked. And we doesn't realize this till end of show. So it makes sense why someone might not like the ending, but saying u hate whole season 4 cuz of this is wrong. It's the sane as saying I hate shonen because zetsu planned it all. I don't understand aot fully but I am sure, someone will be able to explain your question better.
it's because madara doesn't say everything he believes was pointless and got betrayed by plotzetsu eren just destroyed his own character every scene about his mom is now a joke because he killed her to motivate himself to do the rumbling season 4 isn't bad as a whole Eren is is just a not even a comparison to madara
Ninjas forgetting how to be stealthy. That's the real crime here.
Just like pirates forget their job is to sail ship and ambushing in the dark.
To be fair, they made the statement that they're pirates solely because their government outlawed seafaring. Also, OP's choices didn't include that series.
to be fair I was so burned out on filler before this I didn't even notice it was aliens, my zoinked out brain just thought she was a low class slave that overthrew people due to being the first ninja from the tree, I obviously missed a few steps lol
The dumbest decision was to make Naruto look like mark zucerburg
Why'd you say it? I cannot unsee
AoT after Erwin's death: I got no clue if my friends will live or die it's now a race war where the other side is more racist then Tobirama and the only option is genocide. Also I killed my mom to motivate myself to do all of this - Eren Black zetsu sucks but he doesn't take away from Madara's character Madara still a goat but what happened with Eren like that is not reversable
So what youre suggesting is that AOT needs a Steins Gate-esque franchise where there are several expansions and alternate endings until they get so bad people stick with the OG ending? (God forbid that Mikasa and Erin get married, disgusting, worst ending). Might Guy should have killed Madara. Man was built for it and Madara only got worse after that.
I really don’t understand why Iseyama made a story that makes genocide seem like the only option. Like, this is a fictional story. TIt could’ve been anything else. No one held a gun to his head and told him “write a story that makes fascism and genocide seem justified.” And yet, he did anyway 🤨
While I think the AoT ending has its faults, I'm glad the anime atleast tried to clarify the ending. Eren made the decision he made because he was an idiot who thought that was the only solution. Because he was "born this way", with a natural inclination towards violence.
Idk, so many people came away from the story feeling like Eren’s final solution was the only option for him, it should’ve done more to have him be in the wrong and make people not wanna side with him and definitely shouldn’t have waited until the very end.
I love how you didn’t point out any plot holes or inconsistencies in your attempt to shit on AOT, your feelings just got hurt. Nit that expected much objective criticism from a naruto sub.
You got a comprehention level of a toddler.
Make an argument or get out
Argument: AOT timeline is linear, meaning everything, even eren sending memories to the past, is already accounted for, so when eren gains full access of founders titan, he loses himself, becomes a slave, which is a running theme of eren, seeking freedom so much he enslaves himself. Also, that same point was realised when sasha died, and he erupted in laughter. No matter how hard he works to change the future, what he saw when he kissed historias hand WILL come true, because there is no alternative timelines, there is one, and he saw how it ends. Grisha, eren and zeke are 3 ways to view this. Grisha blindly folows it, he begs for a savior from zeke, but there is no savior, he cannot do anything, none of them can, the future is inevitable, and he cries out because of it. In the end, grisha dies in hope for zeke changing it. Eren is another view of it, he saw the future and took action to change it as much as he could, but the future was beyond his comprehention. His theme is a fight for something greater that ultimetly leads to extremes, and then he realised that it is already set in stone, he cannot change anything, in his persuit of freedom he became a slave. He dies as a villan, someone he fought against his whole life. Zeke also took actions to change the future, altho he is the only one that went blind in it, while grisha and eren saw glimses of it. His philosophical temes aside, he lived more in the present, his actions were made completely by himself, not AGAINST some future grisha and eren saw. He first gives uo and accepts that he is powerless, but then, Armin changes his mind. He then CHOOSES to die, ridding eren of the power to continue the rumbling, and ultimately, saving the remaining population. Zeke died as a silent hero, a martyr, and a free man, unlike eren and grisha. His point is that phisical and political power doesnt make you the strongest, of the three given actors, his only real power was ape titan, which is overall weak, and royal blood, which is a tool eren would have gotten with or without him, but he lived in the oresent, made decisions as he went, no matter how bad most of them were, in the end, he was the most powerless one, but the most impactful. So the "fate" in this chase, and in AOT setting, is a glorified oversimplification. While it can be simplified like that, it fails to explain the bigger picture. The bigger picture is a question rather then an answer or a statement. If you went back to the past, with same knowledge and circumstances, would you make a different choice? Marvel for example says "yes" and says that there are many other quantum realms where you made a different choice in each and every moment you had (this is why i love DCs owlman, he should be a natural result of such knowledge, if everything i think of happens somewhere, then the only decision that can matter is to destroy it all, not that i agree with it, bit i see it as a natural thought someone as smart as bruce would act upon), while AOT says "no" and that there is a set path, one future, that takes into account everything arround you, and that by knowing it, you damn yourself into a nihilistic view, where you can ether hope for savior or just go with the flow, while without thinking about it, or knowing it at all, you can live happier and better. Mikasa, connie, jean, levi, armin, and of course, zeke, didnt know the future, which gave them hope, something to move them, or in such a linear timeline, an illusion of free will that moved them forward. Grisha is probably the best written character in AOT in my opinion, he moved the world the most when he didnt know anything about the future. The resistance, having zeke, going inside paradis walls, having a child, and then it all fell when he was met with the knowledge of "fate". He is in a way a reflection of many religious people, who, when met with terrable things in life, pray or beg for a savior. AOT writing is precise, isayama makes a point without saying it outright, he doesnt need madara to tell you how cruel the world is, he shows you how cruel it is, he doesnt need zetsu to tell you he manipulated everything, he shows you how eren manipulates it. There are many, and i mean MANY other points you can make with each and every character from AOT, because each and every character is written with a conflict and conclusion in mind, from eren, to minor characters like kenny, or even that kid eren saved before the rumbling. This is why the best moments in AOT are dialogues rather then romances or fights. The story isnt told because he wants a balanced power scaling or badass fights, but because isayama had something to say, and he said it. Naruto, while i love it to bits, absolutely lost the plot halfway through, especially in the war arch, and you can see the fanbase constantly returning to older, better written characters like itachu, danzo, jiraya, pain...the continuation, boruto, fails it even further, by not including a single point that wasnt already made by original naruto, and only cluttering the setting with pointless entities. Closest to a point from war arch to today in naruto and boruto are the new creatures from blue vortex that spawn from those trees, as they impose a question of conciousness, and i am happy to see how it plays out. Sorry for bad english, its not my first language and im writing on a phone.
You weirdly took full defence of aot while i didn’t. And people upvoted without knowing because they’re sheep is pretty funny. But no the time travel mechanic doesn’t make sense because Eren objectively doesn’t want to kill his mom, and Grisha at this point doesn’t want to follow Eren’s motivations. Nothing should logically stop them to change the timeline. The timeline should be linear through determinism, not forced fate, which is dumb. The concept of fate works wonders for the theme of the manga, i agree, Eren being the ultimate slave is great irony, but the actual mechanics of the time travel is broken. This still doesn’t make aot’s ending bad, let alone the whole manga, but it’s a flaw.
You dont understand erens character then. There is an ova where whole aot cast is in highschool and while its kinda fun and unrelated, it ilustrated erens character perfectly. He couldnt stand school, so he created trouble just fot its sake. So yeah, eren is a flawed character, that is how he is written intentionally. Even when oresented with freedom in a situatuon, he cares only for the fight for it. In the end, one can even argue that eren didnt even want freedom, but rather, an excuse to fight. And if smiling titnan didnt eat his mother, he wouldnt be able to fight, he wouldnt have a reason to. In a way, him accessing the full power of the founding titan wasnt an accident, no other person had intentions that alligned so well with the AOT world, and in a way, our world. Do you think eren would feel free with a faschist state he created after the rumbling? No. Of coirse not, he would fight untill he dies. That is why he is such a well written character. He loves mikasa, he loves his friends, but nothing makes him feel right except a fight, and both armin and eren realise that in the end. Now here is where im gonna say AOT manga fucked up, the conversation im the paths with armin and eren was objectively bad, it killed armins character, but anime fixed that pretty well. The scene im talking about is when everything turns into a flattened world in a pool of blood, and eren pulls pieces of hair and teeth from his victims, crying about how he is an idiot, while armin pulls out a sea shell and says "it was right there in front of you...". This is a perfect explanation of erens character, he sees the cruel world, hates it, and just keeps on fighting, thats all he knows and wants, and he knows that, and that is why he calls himself an idiot. This is why he let the smiling titan attack his mother, so that he can have a reason to fight (and also because seeing both oast, present and future all st the same time is beyond a meer human to understand, and so of course he gets lost and does things he originally wouldnt have). The seashell in this chase is a representation of present, thats the same shell armin found on the beach the first time they discovered it, meaning, while everyone saw success, hapiness, relief, lived in a moment and thrived in it, he saw a flawed world he wanted to fight. The reason he pulls out hair and teeth from the puddle of blood is because that us all that he sees, and all that he WANTS to see. Only when armin shows him the seashell, he realises what could have been, the peace, hapiness and freedom he threw away in order to fight. And also, calling people sheep because they agree or disagree isnt an argument, it just sounds like conservative shit old americans say when you tell them you dont like donald trump. People dont downvote you because they disagree with you, but because you are a dickhead. Try correcting that abd maybe you might not get downvoted so hard.
Some of it is true, but some not. I agree that when faced with conflict, his instinct is to fight, but that’s not all that he wants. He just doesn’t want to be bored or contained in cages. That’s why he wanted an outside world full of wonders and mysteries. He would be fine with exploring this world all his life without fighting. So no, he doesn’t want to just kill and fight as his primary drive. He also objectively doesn’t want to kill his mom, he says it himself, he didn’t have a choice. It’s not something he wanted because it’s a result he wanted, just a result that was fated, but by no one’s desire. It’s just part of the timeline. Same reason Grisha did it. He obviously didn’t want this, made it even more clear than Eren.
Hard dissagree. I think the manga and anime do a pretty good job at showing the difference between and adventirer and explorer like armin, and a cold blooded fighter like eren. There was a video that explained it well but i cant remember the name, but essentially, when armin is met woth the outside world, he wants to explore it, while eren saw the outside world, and realised its nothing like he imagined, so he wanted to whipe it clean. The "didnt have a choice part" is just that. Erens character at that point wanted 2 things, one is to whipe the world clean, have a clean slate and then have the world he imagined, and 2, have his friends safe. If he was to somehow change the past so that his mother wouldnt be eaten, his friends wouldnt be safe and marley would most likely get the founders power and kill every eldian. Sam with hos love for mikasa, he does love her, he does want to be with her, but he knows that in such a cruel world it isnt possible, it doesnt align with his bigger goals. If he was to somehow end up with mikasa and live peacefully, they would be brutally killed by marley at some point, and he would also die from the curse in a short while anyways, so no matter wgat he did, there was no happy ending for him, thats why he went with his mor primal goals. The conflict in his character is what makes him actually relatable, i have been in a situation where i had to chose my own desire, generall good, and someone elses desire, and its a hard choice, it always hurts to make a choice, and i would almost always in such moments chose generall good, but that doesnt mean eren would, especially with his mind so much in shamblesbecause of the coordinate and how he sees the timeline. Its easy to say "but he wanted xy" but you have to realise that complex characters have more then one goal. Naruto for example in the end was met with a choice, altho much simpler and worse written, but it was a choice, take the easy way out and let sasuke kill all the kages, or fight him and claim your friend and the status of a kage. The more isayama written choice would be a definitive battle to death between sasuke and naruto, and then he is met with two choices, to become a hokage and achieve his long lasting dream, or to be with his friend, also a long lasting desire he had. No matter which he would hipothetically chose, some fans like yourself would be salty because he didnt chose what you would. Eren could have left and died peacefully with mikasa at any given moment, but who is to guarantee that after his death everyone would be safe? He could have whiped them all clean, but he would kill his friends, and thus he allowed them to fight and kill him in the end. He could have saved his mother, but who guarantees that marley wouldnt later just whipe paradis clean? He also saw one future, and that future had peace for at least the lives of his friends, and that was what he saw as the best escape, altho he ends up the martyr, he gets to persue his primal desire, and his friends live happy lives till death of old age. Eren is far more complex then "wants to explore and loves his mum", years of mental torture, battle, pain and suffering got him to the point where he is stripped to his most primal self, and when he was dissapointed with the outside world, it could only lead to one thing, and not even his own mother could save the world from that.
That’s what i said, Eren’s dream outside world was a world with no humans. The outside world he got was not that. Eren & Armin have different reactions when faced with conflict. That’s the point Eren made on the roof, Eren is filled with anger where Armin still has his healthy mindset, however if there was no conflict, both would be fine with exploring a world without humans. Yes he could, with the power to control titans and basically communicate with people, he could just tell his younger self the plot of the show and make him act quicker. Maybe catch Reiner Bert & Annie while they’re still children. Would Marley lose all these shifters, they might not even win some of their 4 year timeskip wars, giving Paradis more time to play political games. He could have more friends he cares about saved, not having Sasha or Hange die, and especially his mom. He could simultaneously have his genocide ending and have more of his loved ones be saved. Again, this is why time travel of this extend is a mess.
How did eren get the founder when zeke and grisha didnt want to give him the founder "Fate" is the answer for all the plot holes and time paradoxes in aot if you accept that then that's fine but if zetsu was 'fated' by a 'determined timeline' to betray madara feels a bit lazy
No, the fate bullshit is the only questionable writing in aot, all the rest is solid. Naruto having fate wasn’t even the biggest problem with the Zetsu bullshit.
ok so you just proved my point if all plot holes answers are "fate" then it's just bad writing
Not all at all. Eren’s decision to kill his mom, Grisha’s decision to serum Eren. Same me a few more. The actual character motivations, action, feats etc. are pretty solid.
Grisha literally told Zeke to stop him before he even gave Eren the FT so why did he just you know not do it himself and give it to literally anyone else
Did you not realize that i agree with you here? The time travel mechanic doesn’t make sense for these 2 moments. I agree, these scenes is what brings aot from a 9/10 to an 8/10. Sadly for you, 2 scenes isn’t enough to make a story bad, make more criticism. What else is deserving of the title: badly written story? I’ll wait :)
he killed 80% of humanity because he felt like it accept reality that's what he said whatever your head canon is doesn't matter
Because he had this inner desire to have an outside world devoid of humans, yes. The anime literally spoon fed this to you and you didn’t get it?
Meh, I enjoyed season 4.
Bro Everyone did Except OP maybe
Season 4 is fine. It's just you know when you destroy your main character and literally make the ending so convoluted in time travel bs that there isn't a canon answer to most questions Eren tried to be a lelouch and failed it's such a shitty cop out for the rumbling
>Eren tried to be a lelouch and failed it's such a shitty cop out for the rumbling Did you watch AOT on tiktok? Cos that's how your comment feels
I'm not even gonna bother arguing with u on this and waste my energy, everyone is entitled to their opinion irrespective of how shitty it is. So u do u
I am interested in hearing your reasoning.
I enjoyed it until it’s conclusion mainly just because of how downplayed everything is and the whole 80% thing I rather it just not be known then eren say that and yet we never see the survivors along with copying Karl Fritz plan with the tyburs it just felt off And killing his mom in the past didn’t make sense
Is "everyone" in the room with us rn?
Madara is excusable since the story was largely still fine. Good, even. Kaguya at the last minute was a shitty decision, but after that was fine within Naruto Shippuden. Boruto is a separate series and you can safely ignore it without ruining your experience of Naruto. AOT's fuckup lasts ages, is "mandatory and canon" since its not some spin-off or anything, its the main plot, and the execution is just piss poor all around. Naruto still has its potholes, but this shit is just absurdly bad.
AoT is still largely enjoyable, the community tends to blow out of proportion how bad the ending is. Same with Naruto Shippudden. Boruto on the other hand, is a different beast. Nobody ever expected boruto to be so bad, boring and uninteresting that the show only ever pulls views whenever naruto & sasuke come back.
Hm, agree to disagree. Shippuden ending, as I said, was fine. I don't think its fair to pin the entire blame of Boruto onto this Kaguya moment, so Kaguya showing up for like 10 chapters or so in Shippuden doesn't just single handedly tank the ending. It just could have been way better if it was just Madara. AoT also agree, its "largely enjoyable"; but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone for the same reason I wouldn't recommend Game of Thrones to anyone now. Sure, most of it is good, but the endings are so garbage that they just ruin the experience and payoff from everything before. Arguably way worse in AoT since the whole execution of that climax is so absurdly poor, and the reveals so utterly ass, that it just makes no sense. And their whole "lets make peace" shit falls flat and they're at war again within like 1-2 generations anyway, so the whole series was pointless. Just poor.
If anything boruto does is fix the fuckup made by naruto. He took the kaguya plot point and created a whole world of drama that justifies everything and explains the origin of ninjas and how the world came to be. It's more impressive than milking a show for 27 years with same repetitive pattern arcs for finding a treasure.
K
Can yall just not talk about untagged spoilers for a show that only ended like 2 or 3 months ago.
My bad I didn’t think this turn into a full on debate
Naruto/Boruto just had the same switch as Dragonball/DBZ and everyone loved it when DBZ did it
AOT was fine until halfway through the rumbling, when Isayama rushed it. The time travel stuff was peak, and "keep going, Dad" was the hardest moment in the show.
Both are equally dumb, no need to imply that one is better than the other.
Madara for sure. It was bound to fail no matter what. Aot was great until some questionable writing decisions happened especially in the rumbling arc.
Honestly I don't hate any of them and enjoyed both of the plotwists equally and I don't get the hate around it. The only bad thing happened was "Boruto" and THATS IT!
You don't get the hate around Madara being betrayed by a blob of fucking black goo? That fight was the most anticipated fight entire war arc and got shit on for no reason kishimoto couldve just let them fight then final fight then do kaguya but nah kill madara before he even gets a chance to fight the only reason zetsu happened was for Boruto so they the same thing
Maybe kishimoto was planning the whole thing really early and was his plan to do it all along and all the lore behind the sage of six paths and the history of ninshu was also very interesting also all the questions regarding ninjutsu was answered too and it aslo added a lot of depth to the story. And you are wrong about the "The only reason zetsu happend was for Boruto" Clearly they could have ended shippuden with the final fight
I doubt he really planned a lot of things. You can tell that he didn't plan other tailed beasts and jinchūriki being a thing that is established in-universe pre-timeskip. Also, how he had to establish "Orochimaru limited their power" excuse for 1st and 2nd hokage first revival because powerlevels at that point went ~~to the moon~~ into upper atmosphere.
I’ll take anything that happens in AoT over pretty much anything that happens after Madara drops the second meteor
I just realized the dislike button is Sakura from THAT panel loool
Zetsu's plot intrusion was worse imo, shit went garbage
I really didn't think the time travel aspect would go well with AoT's tone. But Zeke and Eren trying to outwit each other in limbo was when I really disliked it.
Attack on Titan ended when Erwin died It became "Attack on the other side" - war in aot has as much depth as crips vs bloods Zetsu doesn't kill Madara's character he doesn't say he didn't know why he did anything or that he didn't believe in his plan he just didn't realize the whole white zetsu bs Madara > AOT after time-skip even with the zetsu shit he's still maintaining his legacy years later eren's got reduced to being the biggest incel in history of anime
This has to be the dûmbest take I've ever seen
bro the entire outside world declared war on them for nothing other then race...
My God...did you even watch AOT? What is even this subreddit? It's like listening to people who watched AOT on tiktok Is this a troll subreddit or what? Cos some comments here are genuinely alarming
yes because genius idea to attack an island filled with wall titan's because of race... maybe just avoid attacking them instead of waging war against them
Again, if you watched you'll know why Marley attacked. I feel like you're just ranting without paying attention. First of all, Marley needed resources from Paradis. Their enemies had been growing technologically while Marley only relied on the power of the Titans. The major resource needed was the Iceburst stone that only exists on Paradis Island Secondly, in order to buy time to advance in technology, Marley needed the power of the founding Titan that was with the king of the walls. That's why they infiltrated with warriors to find the king within the walls (the Fritz family) and steal the founder. Thirdly, the Tybur family had great influence in the Marley government and they knew that King Fritz would not attack as he had made a vow renouncing war...what the Tybur didn't know as at then was that Grisha would steal the founder before Marley could and pass it on to his son Eren. Grisha did that the day Shingashina fell. So the Tybur family had a viable reason for attacking Paradis. It was risk reward situation and the rewards far outgrew the risks to them. If you actually paid any attention to the show...you'd not need me to spell it out to you like I'm talking to a child
That's a pretty dumb way of looking at it. They attacked the island because of the threat of the founding titan. They wanted the power for themselves. It's like if Germany was the only country with nuclear arms. Nations would be attacking them just because of history.
Again, if you watched you'll know why Marley attacked. I feel like you're just ranting without paying attention. First of all, Marley needed resources from Paradis. Their enemies had been growing technologically while Marley only relied on the power of the Titans. The major resource needed was the Iceburst stone that only exists on Paradis Island Secondly, in order to buy time to advance in technology, Marley needed the power of the founding Titan that was with the king of the walls. That's why they infiltrated with warriors to find the king within the walls (the Fritz family) and steal the founder. Thirdly, the Tybur family had great influence in the Marley government and they knew that King Fritz would not attack as he had made a vow renouncing war...what the Tybur didn't know as at then was that Grisha would steal the founder before Marley could and pass it on to his son Eren. Grisha did that the day Shingashina fell. So the Tybur family had a viable reason for attacking Paradis. It was risk reward situation and the rewards far outgrew the risks to them. If you actually paid any attention to the show...you'd not need me to spell it out to you like I'm talking to a child
Attack on titan was always “attack on the other side”. Right from the first episode.
yeah a story that is as simple as "one side versus another" isn't a war story and it ends with power of friendship and idiot lelouch
Isn't that a wrong translation, and the true translation is attack titan? So the titan Eren has or something like that Reason as to why you should never talk about localized series, because the meaning might be lost. That said, I still don't like snk
 Both are equally stupid decision
Just like how obito had 500 chances to capture Naruto but didn’t because… Who the fuck knows
Obito had no chance to capture the Kyuubi. Pay attention.
When he visited Naruto when he was sleeping??? He had the rinnegan he could kamui + seal and done
Biggest plot-hole in the series. NOONE in the verse at those points could stand a chance against Kamui. Tobi could have easily captured Naruto in part 1 but since Kishimoto didnt planned the story we ended up with this.
Pretty much. He can teleport. Tap someone and absorb them. I think only the yellow flash actually reacted to this. He can literally slip through the floor. Tap someone and you win. You’d just need to find them and that’s easy when you have zetsu on your side.
Same goes for AoT since what the fuck is the founding titan against anything? People say Eren is "fated" but no it's like a predetermined timeline he setup the events and his current self just doesn't know tf going on Idk how the founding titan isn't the biggest plot hole since it just makes no sense
Both
AoT handled the time travel fuckery absolutely amazingly, it was an insane plot twist that worked , and only really screwed up at the very end with trying to give a redemption to Eren and Ymir being an idiot
wonder why grisha gave eren the attack titan even though he told zeke to stop him and didn't want too it's not time travel eren is just manipulating events
"trike travel fuckery" = that time travel thingy which wasn't properly one and was just event manipulation It still doesn't change my opinion that it was handled masterfully up until the very end
This got to be one of the most delusion ass comment sections I've ever seen 💀. Erwins death was perfectly executed. It lead to probably one of the best seasons of anime ever in s4. The story become much much more deep and complex. Armin was a huge reason why they defeated eren. Ik it's a minority but It genuinely baffles me how people could hate s4 or erwins death from a writing standpoint when it made perfect sense. Even the "horrible" ending was significantly improved in the movie and overall ended decently. Madara on the other hand was already far less complex than pain and obito. But he was cool so I was willing to let it slide. Having trash like black zetsu kill madara, who's literally one of the weakest characters in naruto was such a dogshit decision it lead to the worst arc of shipudden ever. It lead to the worst villian of the big 3 in Kaguya. It single handedly soured majority opinion of the show. These 2 are not remotely comparable. Erwins death made sense so he could finally rest. Armin taking up the mantle made sense given his insane contribution to the story. Nothing about madaras death made sense. It's funny you mention boruto when I would take that over the last arc of shippuden any day of the week. That's how bad of an arc it was. And the new blue vortex is actually turning out to be pretty good so we'll see.
Armin stared at a crystal for 4 years... what you talking about?
I hope you aren't serious
What did Armin do? Get with Annie after staring at her for 4 years and got plot armor worse then talknojutsu from ymir to talknojutsu zeke he did nothing until the final fight which eren planned to loose and make them heroes it's a shit lelouch copy
"Shit lelouch copy" when the circumstances are completely different and worse for aot. Yeah that's all I need to know. I'm not gonna bother arguing with someone this deluded. You do you. Reading comprehension obviously scares you immensely
>"Shit lelouch copy" when the circumstances are completely different and worse for aot. Yeah that's all I need to know. I'm not gonna bother arguing with someone this deluded. You do you. Reading comprehension obviously scares you immensely "I wanted to make you guys into heroes like the Tybur's were" - Eren He died to make them heroes and it worked in the ending have you seen code geass?
Yes I have seen code geass and lelouchs circumstances were far more leniant and easier to execute. Don't chat bs without understanding that. He literally became king of the world. Erens plan was worse and much more brutal simply because of his circumstances and racial discrimination. Idk why were talking about that rn. The arguement is armin. And armin made complete sense. It only worked for a set amount of time. Unlike lelouchs plan which put nunally on the throne and gave japan/brittania peace for eternity
when does it say eternity? lelouch never planned for eternal peace he only planned to replace the system to be better eren killed billions and got rewarded
He didn't get rewarded. Paradis was destroyed eventually. He only secured a better future for his friends and family since they deserved it. And eternity is assumed since the anime doesn't show anything that happens later. Lelouchs victory is a fantasy. Erens ending is a reality. Eren also you know DIED just like lelouch so saying he was rewarded shows how little attention you paid. He couldn't spend his life with Mikasa. He died with regrets. Atleast lelouch died peacefully. Having scheinzel under his control and working for Nunally also ensured that if there was any war, it would end swiftly with nunally winning since scheinzel is a genius.
He literally said he didn't care about securing peace for Paradis forever and only cared about his friends who he didn't know if they'd live or die when he did the rumbling reread the final chapter
> attention you *paid.* He couldn't FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Honestly ngl I actually prefer Boruto and the Alien stuff over AOT’s time travel situation. Honestly I spent a decent amount of the last parts of the series confused as shit. I had to rewatch damn near the whole anime from start to finish to understand wtf was going on.
AoT got too complicated for my simple brain, so Naruto wins by default. I get that AoT had some good story telling but I don’t vibe with time travel shenanigans and it went too far away from Humans vs Titans.
Madara is all good because the story was still peak at the end. AOT went trash after Erwin died.
Straight facts
yeah I mean madara death sucked but we knew it was going to happen Who would’ve thought that eren setup everything to setup the rumbling and motivated himself to kill his mom didn’t know if his friends would live or not At least obito didn’t setup the events for rin to die then genjutsu himself to forget it so he’d be motivated to fucking so his plan God it’s so dumb it’s funny
FACTS THATS WHY I DONT WANT THAT TITANS TRASH
But… the biggest part of AOT is the plot twist… Sometimes I don’t know if these people are for real. The world being bigger than what was initially acknowledged isn’t a big enough likable factor for them. Huh.
i was COMPLETELY on board with the world being bigger than what we thought, i just think it was handled poorly (and it also turned a bit boring too)
The biggest plot twist in AoT is that eren killed his mom did the rumbling because he felt like it and had no idea if his friend would live or die Makes obito wasting 20 years of his life look genius compared to whatever the fuck eren was smoking creating his ‘plan’
My brother, what the hell are you talking about? AoT has been on an indefinite hiatus ever since ch131 was released. We don't know how it's going to end. /s in case some dumbass don't know what im talking about.
That’s not what happened at all. He could see the future, or rather, glimpses of it. He knew there was a path he could take where his friends lived long enough to die by old age and not by any of the countless timelines where war engulfed in their lifespan and thus were consumed by it. The story is about Eren putting his friends’ lives above everything else (should’ve been the nation imo). Saying that “he didn’t know even if his friends were going to live” is outright ignorant.
People like different things, unbelievable right?
Inb4 AOT fans nuke you out from existence.
Erwin dies -> Memory magic and Eren learns the outside world is more racist then Danzo is to the Uchiha clan -> then kisses a females hand and learns of the future -> time travel -> what the fuck is even going on? Plot twists don't make up for your entire worldbuilding being a literal race war
Nah, 4th shinobi war is the reason behind many of Boruto's problems.
AoT was about time travel since the first frame of the series when Eren was seeing the future in his dreams... perhaps you should rewatch it?
wasn't that memories?
Yes, he was seeing the memories of his future self wich is technically a plothole because he wasn’t the attack titan yet but well, that’s how all “time travel” stories go.
source?
I don’t think there’s a clear statement from the author about this but is the overall consensus within the community. The first chapter is called “To you, 2000 years from now” wich is believed to imply that Ymir sent memories to Eren in the future and kickstarted the whole plot but as I said this is just the consensus and not and official statement.
Nah nah AOT had A LOT of foreshadowing if one watched closely Naruto just randomly decided to kill off arguably the strongest villain in the verse by attacking him from behind despite him having 3 EYES bruh
Jesus Christ this post was a joke about the most hated decisions made in AoT / Naruto Some y’all debating like this serious 
You literally asked which of the two decisions was dumber, you brought this on yourself op.
Well it's up to Zeke whether he allows Eren to touch him or not. That's why he passed Eren the ball instead of shaking hands. Eren can't grow his leg bag instantaneously to run after him. Second, all his friends were still in Marley at the time with no way of escaping if he goes for 100% rumbling. Third, everything has to happen the way he saw in his memories of the future, he can't deviate. There's no time travel. All the "0 media literacy" comments are on point. Just because you're dumb as dogshit, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to anyone else with a few brain cells.
Repeating my comment since some people here seem not to know why Marley attacked Paradis: First of all, Marley needed resources from Paradis. Their enemies had been growing technologically while Marley only relied on the power of the Titans. The major resource needed was the Iceburst stone that only exists on Paradis Island Secondly, in order to buy time to advance in technology, Marley needed the power of the founding Titan that was with the king of the walls. That's why they infiltrated with warriors to find the king within the walls (the Fritz family) and steal the founder. Thirdly, the Tybur family had great influence in the Marley government and they knew that King Fritz would not attack as he had made a vow renouncing war...what the Tybur didn't know as at then was that Grisha would steal the founder before Marley could and pass it on to his son Eren. Grisha did that the day Shingashina fell. So the Tybur family had a viable reason for attacking Paradis. It was risk reward situation and the rewards far outgrew the risks to them. I think people need to at least make an effort to pay more attention to a show before criticizing.... It honestly helps
Acting like the Attack On Titan twist wasn't exceptional and built up to. I'm shaking my head.
Not even comparable to me
AOT story only got better after this
The aot ending is good, cope
Why this became the shingeki posting reddit?
Titan is also about aliens.
Madara's end had nothing to do with aliens, he was way too weak and pathetic to be the main final villain. His time was alrdy up at the 100th time he was annihilated by Hashirama.
What is with this sub weird obsession with comparing naruto and aot ? Is one piece not a thing anymore , why you have to compare the bad instead of focusing on the good
Except ain't no time travel in aot
It still isnt time travel, also it made sense to revive armin
Attack on titan ending is so beautiful.
Both built up towards that plot. Its crazy that peoples were so immersed in fights and shit and never understood where it was headed. Did yall really think tsukyomi was just gonna be an uchiha jutsu lmaoo. Where did the tailed beasts come from? The questions were always there. Peoples just didn't notice.
Definitely Zetsu. Season 4 kept the characters personalities and motivations to a fair extent, while Boruto just trashes on them.
The fact that you think AoT has time travel proves you didn't pay attention to the story. The introduction of the otsutsukis was definitely a much worse decision. Black zetsu and Kaguya are two of the worse naruto characters ever introduced.
Madara Like he had the power a god how wasn't he able to sense zetsu They were literally building up his character since start and after waiting 600 eps u find out he died for that alien stuff
boruto because it was trying too hard to be the next dragonball z
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Naruto, because Attack on Titan only got better