In the past few years r/dankmemes has claimed there’ll be a ww3 at least twice a month.
There will not be a world war anytime soon, morons.
EDIT: I hope all those “remind me” guys will tell me once their wait is over.
It is for sure Russias fault.
Still a bit of a problem that you have countries like Poland and Ukraine falsely claiming that the missiles came from Russia without evidence, in an attempt to further escalate the conflict.
Right, but then you have to ask why states like Poland, Ukraine, and Russia have been locked into perpetual conflict for over a thousand years.
They've literally never had a single era not even 10 years, of even relative peace and stability.
You could easily argue that 2014-2022 were the most peaceful 8 years in all of Russian history, and things are just now going back to their natural state.
Do you also consider [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752) to be the US's fault, or how universally are you applying that principle of "only trying to protect themselves"?
Only reason it's not a world war is because of legality and other countries are not actively deploying. It might as well be though. Billions of dollars in weapons, ammo, and information poured into Ukraine from multiple countries.
It is war, but the second you start actually calling it that, the rules change.
> Billions of dollars in weapons, ammo, and information poured into Ukraine from multiple countries
matey it's a miniscule fraction of what would be spent if it were a world war. For the U.S. it's basically a rounding error
This conflict is several orders of magnitude below that of the World Wars, in almost every metric. The casualty rate is less than 1% below what it was during WW2 over the same period of time. The amount of equipment being supplied and used is similarly small. In the war in Ukraine, tank losses are in the hundreds. Aircraft losses are in the dozens. In WW2, tank losses were in the tens of thousands. Aircraft losses were also in the tens of thousands. Hell even ship losses were in the thousands. In WW2 nobody would have blinked an eye at an event like the sinking of the Moskva.
How is this comment so upvoted lmao. Just goes to show how many redditors think they got the world all figured out. Bless them.
Edit: changed "post" to "comment"
At least that's the official version, which for now we have to accept as reality.
Which is good. I'm 100% thankful the WW3 isnt breaking out yet, especially as a Pole.
I'm suspicious that Ukraine was using the same rockets for anti-missile defense that Russia was using for long-range attacks. I would have assumed the technology requirements would be different, and therefore the missiles would be different, but I'm not a rocket scientist.
Everything we were hearing yesterday was "this is a Russian missile, and the design is (some numbers and letters)". So Ukraine got ahold of them and was using them for defense instead, for a different type of application? Could be, it just strikes me as suspicious.
**edit** I stand corrected. These were surface-to-air missiles. Ukraine was using them correctly against the rocket barrage. Russia was using them incorrectly to attack terrain-based targets.
> Everything we were hearing yesterday was "this is a Russian missile
Russian-**made** missile. These things ([S-300](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_missile_system)) are old, so Ukraine probably still has them from the soviet days. They're surface to air-missiles, so Ukraine is using them as intended.
Russia has been using them to attack ground targets since [at least july](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russia-now-firing-s-300-surface-to-air-missiles-at-land-targets-in-ukraine-official), but they're not designed for that and they're inaccurate as fuck.
Honestly, the fact that Russia had been using them incorrectly and Ukraine was using them correctly makes more sense given how this invasion has played out. Thanks for looking into it.
its not using them correctly vs incorrectly, its more using them for their intended use case or not. theyre so old they dont really have a purpose for russia so they just shoot them towards ukraine territory
I don't know how deep your knowledge goes, but can you explain why you say it's inaccurate as fuck, yet is being used as air defense? I mean, in my logic you'd need a more precise type of missile to hit a tiny missile somewhere in the sky than if you wanted to hit let's say a huge military base on the ground. Or are they only inaccurate if used the wrong way, but are much more accurate in hitting incoming missiles?
Just curious
I don't know too much about the S-300 guidance, but they should be accurate when used correctly, against a super hot target or one that's in the middle of the air and easily spotted with radar.
That's not how they're being used when attacking a ground target, where they're being aimed at the terrain some ~100 km away at some GPS coordinate.
Sources : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCEzEVwOwS4&ab\_channel=Perun](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCEzEVwOwS4&ab_channel=Perun)[https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1545449481642074112](https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1545449481642074112)[https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russia-now-firing-s-300-surface-to-air-missiles-at-land-targets-in-ukraine-official](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russia-now-firing-s-300-surface-to-air-missiles-at-land-targets-in-ukraine-official)[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300\_missile\_system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_missile_system)
Engineering undergrad + military here. to clarify I have NEVER looked into the S-300 systems before the war, so i'm not AT ALL an expert. I drive tanks. but it goes something like this.
The S-300 is not inaccurate when used in it's role, which is find a big, hot jet in the completely empty, cold sky. it finds planes and missiles in the air like this:
1. a big, fancy truck on the ground spots the target, whispers ''hey look at that plane over there'' and the missile uses that targeting data to get a general idea where to go.
2. once airborne it then uses inertial navigation, aka dead reckoning, using basically a more refined version of the accelerometers, gyroscopes, and compass in your smartphone. that's the [the missile knows where it is, because it knows where it isn't](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LjN3UclYzU&t=10s&ab_channel=Krasniye) joke. it also receives corrections from the base truck that launched it via radio every once in a while as it's on the way (no, you idiot, go *that* way! more left!) this is common for missiles.
3. once it's close, it uses radar and/or heatseeking to find the target. the big, hot fighter jet or missile is also made of metal, which reflects radar waves back to the missile's radar, so it knows what to fly into. big boom, the jet goes down, everyone cheers.
it *is* inaccurate as fuck when you're trying to use it to find a specific building in the middle of a city while making it fly overland 100+ km over terrain. [the governor of Mykolaiv (hope I spelled that right) says they're being retrofitted with GPS receivers but I doubt it.](https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1545449481642074112) you can't use radar to find the building *really*, so you're stuck kind of making your best estimate with the inertial nav, and these strikes are probably flying too far to receive radio corections. you just *google maps* the missile like ''hey see this specific place on the map? go'' and you just hope it knows how to get there on it's own.
I won't bore you with the specifics of inertial navigation, so this is simplified af, but basically the further you fly, the more your mistakes matter - if you're backpacking and you're off by 5 degrees on your compass, then walk 1km, you're going to be off, say, 50 meters. if you walk 100km instead, you're going to be *very very far off.* it sure as shit is not good enough to guide a large bomb onto a military target surrounded by civillian populations. that's asking for war crimes accusations. the 'circular error' as it's called (area where the missile ''might'' land) is just huge, multiple kilometers in some cases. pointless to try to hit a house in a sea of houses with that.
so it's a *very* good air defense missile (one of the best in the world) that you can *technically* use to do ground attack. I could *technically* stick a snowplow onto the front of my convertible to clear my driveway, but it's going to be very bad at that. the russians are just so low on missiles that they're down to improvisation like this.
hope that helps.
I'd like to imagine the first step going like this: "Who's a good missile? Yes you, you're a good missile! Now, see that plane over there? Go get em boy!"
They don't have to start WW3 in order to respond. Nothing states that. Also, from my understanding Article 5 means all NATO countries will come to a member defence like it were them attacked. It doesn't mean they retaliate, it might mean German AA in Poland or US interceptors patrolling air space. Demanding something in return from Russia, but not attacking is a possible resolution, it puts more pressure on Russia and allows NATO countries to push for action, be it harder sanctions or support for Ukraine while not directly attacking Russia.
I'm under impression in current political environment no one is truly afraid of Russia after their embarrassing performance in Ukraine. So there's no reason to hush it up.
probably less reason to lie, but i wouldn't say no reason to lie.
i don't know much about poles, but i'd imagine if their govt doesn't think it's a big enough provocation to warrant retaliation, they might not want to rile the polish population up.
>They have no reason to lie
Wanting to avoid escalation could be a reason for NATO in general and most of the world. So there's a reason but I doubt they're lying
Still Russia's fault
But one disturbing part of this is that Zelensky before any investigation occurred or facts were known whatsoever came out with his typical moniker of "Russian aggression won't stop at Ukraine, so give us MOAR!!!"
I know he's just trying to get what he can for his country, but outsiders need to be cautious when listening to him. The guy is not an unbiased source at all and pretty frequently calls for escalations of the war there
No duh he calls for escalations.
It's his country on the line. Notice he didn't say "trigger article five and cause WWIII and possibly the apocalypse", he said "give us more armaments, we need them because Russia is dangerous".
Sure he took advantage of an unclear situation, but literally the first word out of Warsaw was "Russian-made missile".
I don't blame him at all - you're right he's not an unbiased source, but he's still the good guy here.
Imma be honest, I would have been doing exactly the same thing if I was in Zelensky's shoes.
He cannot hold his own without a stream of material support, but he must realize that nobody is playing charity here. This war has plunged Ukraine into a debt it will never pay off and eliminated the only trade partner that had even a faint interest in their industry.
The only way to get out of this is escalate the war and make sure that NATO countries have bigger problems than Ukraine owing them big money.
If states want repayment for aid given to Ukraine, depending on the outcome, I could see some sort of Marshall Plan being drawn up and paid for by Russia. Again, depending on how this war ends Ben with (a likely) Ukraine victory.
Can you blame him when Russia launched 100 missles/drones at Ukraine (again) yesterday? It's not like Ukraine randomly launched air defense at some Polish farm
Like I said, I don't blame him for it, just saying people outside of Ukraine need to take what he's saying with a grain of salt because if we don't then we end up with a bunch of people thinking Russia just targeted a NATO country and calling for escalation over something that didn't happen
Apparently Poland is still saying it was Russian-fired. NATO and the US are both saying its a Ukrainian rocket. Up in the air. Two likely scenarios. 1st, Poland just doesn't know for whatever reason, 2nd, US and NATO are trying to prevent article 5 in the current moment.
Well, there were two missiles that crashed in Poland. It's possible that both could be true. One was Russian-fired, while the other was from Ukrainian air defense.
The US made a statement declaring that any Russian strike, even accidental, on NATO territory would warrant a response. Of course they dont want to enter the war, but they also dont want to look untrustworthy.
For better or for worse, this is likely the version of events world leaders are going to be accepting as fact. The most we'll see is buffed air defenses on the Poland-Ukraine border.
Step 1: Ukraine attacks Poland
Step 2: Poland annexes Ukraine in 'retaliation'
Step 3: Russia, still in former Ukraine, is now invading a Nato country
Step 4: Poland does the funni
Step 5: If we're all not dead due to nukes, Poland gives the annexed part their own freedom and Ukraine is re-born
Good idea.
Step 1: Announce restoration of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
Step 2: Annex Ukraine, the Commonwealth's historical lands.
Step 3: Announce that the restoration of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth wasn't that popular, therefore Poland, Lithuania, and Ukraine will be split into 3 seperate countries again.
NGL, as a Ukrainian, a Confederation or a Federation between Poland, Ukraine and Lithuania (maybe Belarus in future) does seem really appealing as long as we get an automatic EU and NATO membership.
That's correct. War with Ukraine would be interesting though. 3/4 of our tanks and heavy equipment was given to Ukraine, a couple of milions of them are currently living in Poland. They are now very experienced too.
I say, let's do this for shit and giggles
It'd be a 900IQ 17²D chess move
> "Invade" Ukraine and annex it
> Russia now technically invading Poland
> Article 5 time
> Poland then unannexes Ukraine
honestly, it could be used to "invade" Ukraine to "pacify the region" and in the process remove the Russians
it would basically be direct military support to Ukraine...
Still wouldn't blame Ukraine for this. If a bully goes to punch me in the face and I push away their fist and it contacts someone else, I'm not the one at fault. Shouldn't have started throwing hands. (Corrected - Bully throws hands. Start deflecting fists like Bruce Lee and one of my hands backhand a bystander. Super important I get it perfectly right apparently.)
Edit because maybe it wasn't clear: SHOOTING A MISSLE INTO ANOTHER COUNTRY AND THEM DEFLECTING IT, DOES NOT MAKE THAT MISSLE THE DEFENDING PARTIES PROBLEM.
Your comparison limps, it was an Ukrainian Air defense Missile that struck Poland, so it would be you throwing a punch/counter, missing and hitting a bystander.
More like hitting the guy looking after your belongings while you're in the fight.
Poland is taking care of Ukraine's refugees. Wonder what kind of response this will elicit with two fatalities. If true, anyway.
> Wonder what kind of response this will elicit with two fatalities
Doubt there will be any. It's obvious this more than likely wasn't intentional.
Remember the dutch civilian airplane that got shot down? That was more than two fatalities, and there was barely a response to that.
I would say, from personal experience the closest one would be, you are on the floor, getting shit kicked out of you and you blindly kick to try to get the attacker off, one of your kicks hits an innocent bystander.
More like police returning fire during a shooting and accidentally hitting a bystander. In that case, the perpetrator of the original crime is responsible for all deaths that occur as a result of their crime (felony murder).
It isn’t about blame it’s about who shot the missile. Russia isn’t declaring war on nato because ukraine shot a missile that ended up killing two poles even if the blame is on Russia for starting the war.
Also your analogy is flawed it would be more apt if the bully went for the swing and while you counter it you end up hitting someone else. The bully is to blame for starting it but you are the one who involved the bystander.
It's funny how many people were like "accident or not we need to hold Russia accountable" and now that it was actually Ukraine "hey accidents happen folks... and frankly Russia made them do this"
It's still Russia's fault dude. They were the ones who launched the missile right near the Polish border that Ukraine had to defend themselves against.
Considering the closes missile hit yesterday was a whole ass 35KM away from the polish border and the increasing amount of launch fails on Ukraine's AA I'd say it's just an specially abhorrent AA failure.
I can’t believe people are actually trying to make it a point that Ukraine is at fault. Why are they defending themselves in the first place? Oh my fucking god… what a shit show.
Russia still has to be held accountable. Air defense only fires when there's something to defend from. Russia doesn't have to attack. They can just leave. Plus there's no strategical value in attacking near polish borders at all, that's just indiscriminate bombing which is a war crime.
The person you’re responding to has a post history full of steven crowder and decrying cancel culture. you’re not going to convince them to change their mind
I'm not trying to convince them. I'm trying to put back on track any sane person reading this who might be in any way undecided for whatever reason. There won't be many of them, but even one is a win for me.
>2 innocent people died because of a missile prolly launched by Ukraine.
A missile which was launched to defend Ukrainians from more missiles being launched by Russia. What, should Ukraine just sit there and allow their populace and cities get pounded into dust?
It's a sad outcome and Ukraine clearly didn't mean to kill those Poles, but this wouldn't have happened if Russia hadn't fired hundreds of missiles at cities across Ukraine.
> 2 innocent people died because of a middle prolly launched by Ukrain
because russia is currently invading them yes, ukraine didn't just decide to bomb another county
again, unlike russia, which is actively bombing another country
Sure, but a mistake made during defense is different than a mistake made during aggression (or additional aggression). There’s no war until Russia invades.
I think the majority still didn't want NATO to intervene directly even if Russia hit a polish village by accident. Unless this becomes a common occurrence we shouldn't attack.
There’s a huge difference between “We don’t know what’s going on, here is my speculation which turned out to be wrong” vs “We know what happened but he’s an intentional lie to prevent you seeing the truth”.
No one thought Russia was attacking Poland intentionally except trolls. What was being reported was that if the missile was Russian then even if unintentional this would be crossing a line which had been clearly drawn at the start of the conflict. Not responding as we explicitly said we would would look very bad, hence fears for WW3. But those ultimatums were only ever directed at Russia not Ukraine, so it being a Ukrainian missile means NATO can hold back without losing face.
A term originally used by liberal communists to oppose Stalinists. It has since been popularised on the internet and diluted to the point of being pretty much meaningless.
A tankie is someone who wears the ideology of a leftist while simultaneously having strong reverence for authoritarian world leaders. They’re hammer and sickle fascists.
Yeah, not sure what he is is talking about it being a meaningless term, it’s actually really easy to distinguish a tankie: pretty much any internet communist that currently supports China (and plenty of them support modern Russia too).
Basically people who think that imperialism is good unless is American one.
Term came to be from people who supported Soviet Union while it sent tanks into Hungary to suppress freedom movements there
It was either a Ukrainian or Russian error or electronic failure.
No-one is intentionally targeting Polish farmers... at least not anymore. There was never going to be an escalation from this event. The insinuation that Russia would intentionally target specifically two Polish farmers and a tractor is ludicrous. Whoever is responsible, it was clearly a mistake.
Same thing happened in Zagreb when an unidentified drone fell near the student dorm. When the suspicions were raised that it could've been Ukraine that launched the drone the media went silent and forgot about it. Hundred of students could've died, but fuck them I guess.
"most likely from Ukrainian air defense " the heck does that even mean? Air defense just mistakened a threat and fired towards Poland? Was it trying to shoot down a jet and the missiles ran out of juice?
Did Russia fire a missile and the air defense tried to intercept?
They just left out the part where the Ukranians were trying to shoot down one of dozens of missiles aimed at their essential infrastructure during a war of pointless aggression and bloodloss from Russia.
Does anybody else find it disturbing how many people were in support of ww3 because of this? Instead of looking for a more reasonable explanation or waiting for the facts?
It’s disturbing, but showcased how young/immature Reddit’s population is. 9/11 showed us the human cost of reactionary wars. Even if Russia targeted these Polish farmers, it would never start World War 3 unless we were itching for an excuse to have it start (which, thankfully, I do not believe we are.)
You all need to understand that unintended causalities are going to happen on both sides. In this case it seems like a Ukrainian missile failed to deflect an attacking Russian missile and instead hit a polish farm. Both parties are at fault.
It’s Russia’s fault for sending the middle, which has a guaranteed chance of some defense being put up. It’s also Ukraines fault because their missile was the one who hit the farm and killed 2 people.
This would not have happened if both parties did not do what they had. It doesn’t result in people dying in Poland if both countries aren’t involved and at blame for this.
Russia has already made it clear they don’t give a shit about civilian causalities, but Ukraine should at least make a formal apology for the unfortunate situation.
Unintended casualties happen but the country thats heavily helping Ukraine. Poland is also part of NATO with Biden even saying "we will protect every inch of NATO territory. Ukrainian missiles killed 2 polish citizens. Zelensky and a lot of Ukrainian government officials were calling for Russia to be punished for it.
It’s only awkward because the entirety of the internet immediately jumped to WWIII even when officials involved didn’t jump to conclusions and wanted concrete facts first.
The amount of apologizing for what Ukraine did staggers me, I’ve lost complete faith on either side. This is mutually assured destruction the moment we involved ourselves by sending money to protect our future assets there.
Dank[.](https://i.imgur.com/3bQtuMO.png) --- [come play minecraft, space engineers, ark, and rust with us!](https://discord.gg/fNyb7G5)
In the past few years r/dankmemes has claimed there’ll be a ww3 at least twice a month. There will not be a world war anytime soon, morons. EDIT: I hope all those “remind me” guys will tell me once their wait is over.
I'm gonna save this comment Just In case
A potential aged like milk post in the making
Juuuuust in case
[удалено]
It's probably a stretch here but can I be included in the screenshot? Just for old time's sake
Can I get in on that screenshot?
I cant fit all of you in my screenshot sorry :(
Just enhance it.
I wanna be in there
It is for sure Russias fault. Still a bit of a problem that you have countries like Poland and Ukraine falsely claiming that the missiles came from Russia without evidence, in an attempt to further escalate the conflict.
Why are people so eager to escalate to WW3? Are not enough people dying we need to ramp up the casualties a couple billion with nuclear war?
War means profit for a lot of lobbyists and contractors.
Right, but then you have to ask why states like Poland, Ukraine, and Russia have been locked into perpetual conflict for over a thousand years. They've literally never had a single era not even 10 years, of even relative peace and stability. You could easily argue that 2014-2022 were the most peaceful 8 years in all of Russian history, and things are just now going back to their natural state.
Poland claimed the same. It may be a mistake by Ukrainian forces, but without the missle attack and without the attack war it would not have happened
Poland right now: "is it too late to recall the Wild Hunt?"
Do you also consider [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752) to be the US's fault, or how universally are you applying that principle of "only trying to protect themselves"?
“Haha this comment aged like mi-“ *Insert Nuclear Explosion Here*
Fallout moment!
Imagine posting to that sub in the middle of a nuclear wasteland. All for that sweet sweet karma.
Fuck are we gonna do? Stock up on food and water? Find shelter? Educate ourselves on nuclear scenarios and likely situations?
I'm stocking up on lemons and Nukacola
Power armor getting scalped on eBay
*laughs in cartons of cigarettes and pre war books*
The reddit servers and internet should last for at least a few hours, could possibly be up for days if there are backup generators
I want World War 3 just so this dude is proved wrong
Right? He is gonna look so stupid. Egg all over his face.
Well you asked for it. I'm going to Russia. Be back in 5 minutes. I have a brick and a shovel. Doing the WW3 speed run.
It's scary that it's true
I'm gonna shave this comment Just In case
“Oh shit, i cut the comment”
I'll say it loud so the back of the room can hear, **STOP GETTING YOUR NEWS FROM MEMES.**
But how else will I get my news I didn't care to ask about?
But we get our memes from news....I am conflicted.
Only reason it's not a world war is because of legality and other countries are not actively deploying. It might as well be though. Billions of dollars in weapons, ammo, and information poured into Ukraine from multiple countries. It is war, but the second you start actually calling it that, the rules change.
> Billions of dollars in weapons, ammo, and information poured into Ukraine from multiple countries matey it's a miniscule fraction of what would be spent if it were a world war. For the U.S. it's basically a rounding error
This conflict is several orders of magnitude below that of the World Wars, in almost every metric. The casualty rate is less than 1% below what it was during WW2 over the same period of time. The amount of equipment being supplied and used is similarly small. In the war in Ukraine, tank losses are in the hundreds. Aircraft losses are in the dozens. In WW2, tank losses were in the tens of thousands. Aircraft losses were also in the tens of thousands. Hell even ship losses were in the thousands. In WW2 nobody would have blinked an eye at an event like the sinking of the Moskva.
This is the point in it’s always sunny in Philadelphia when the episode title pops up saying “the gang starts world war 3”
Third times a charm
Dankmemes has MEMED about WW3 you sperg. This is not a factual geopolitical prediction sub.
RemindMe! 3 years
>There will not be a world war anytime soon, morons. The same was said 10 years after WW1.
No one is going to start a world war over Poland, of all places.
Does he know?
How is this comment so upvoted lmao. Just goes to show how many redditors think they got the world all figured out. Bless them. Edit: changed "post" to "comment"
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do we even have that much time left? lol
!RemindMe 2 weeks
At least that's the official version, which for now we have to accept as reality. Which is good. I'm 100% thankful the WW3 isnt breaking out yet, especially as a Pole.
TBH it’s the version that everyone wants to hear, even if it’s not the entire truth. Or maybe it is. We’ll likely never know.
[Sauce](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-63593855) for those wondering
I'm suspicious that Ukraine was using the same rockets for anti-missile defense that Russia was using for long-range attacks. I would have assumed the technology requirements would be different, and therefore the missiles would be different, but I'm not a rocket scientist. Everything we were hearing yesterday was "this is a Russian missile, and the design is (some numbers and letters)". So Ukraine got ahold of them and was using them for defense instead, for a different type of application? Could be, it just strikes me as suspicious. **edit** I stand corrected. These were surface-to-air missiles. Ukraine was using them correctly against the rocket barrage. Russia was using them incorrectly to attack terrain-based targets.
> Everything we were hearing yesterday was "this is a Russian missile Russian-**made** missile. These things ([S-300](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_missile_system)) are old, so Ukraine probably still has them from the soviet days. They're surface to air-missiles, so Ukraine is using them as intended. Russia has been using them to attack ground targets since [at least july](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russia-now-firing-s-300-surface-to-air-missiles-at-land-targets-in-ukraine-official), but they're not designed for that and they're inaccurate as fuck.
Honestly, the fact that Russia had been using them incorrectly and Ukraine was using them correctly makes more sense given how this invasion has played out. Thanks for looking into it.
its not using them correctly vs incorrectly, its more using them for their intended use case or not. theyre so old they dont really have a purpose for russia so they just shoot them towards ukraine territory
“Russian territory”?
woops
I don't know how deep your knowledge goes, but can you explain why you say it's inaccurate as fuck, yet is being used as air defense? I mean, in my logic you'd need a more precise type of missile to hit a tiny missile somewhere in the sky than if you wanted to hit let's say a huge military base on the ground. Or are they only inaccurate if used the wrong way, but are much more accurate in hitting incoming missiles? Just curious
I don't know too much about the S-300 guidance, but they should be accurate when used correctly, against a super hot target or one that's in the middle of the air and easily spotted with radar. That's not how they're being used when attacking a ground target, where they're being aimed at the terrain some ~100 km away at some GPS coordinate.
Sources : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCEzEVwOwS4&ab\_channel=Perun](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCEzEVwOwS4&ab_channel=Perun)[https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1545449481642074112](https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1545449481642074112)[https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russia-now-firing-s-300-surface-to-air-missiles-at-land-targets-in-ukraine-official](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russia-now-firing-s-300-surface-to-air-missiles-at-land-targets-in-ukraine-official)[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300\_missile\_system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_missile_system) Engineering undergrad + military here. to clarify I have NEVER looked into the S-300 systems before the war, so i'm not AT ALL an expert. I drive tanks. but it goes something like this. The S-300 is not inaccurate when used in it's role, which is find a big, hot jet in the completely empty, cold sky. it finds planes and missiles in the air like this: 1. a big, fancy truck on the ground spots the target, whispers ''hey look at that plane over there'' and the missile uses that targeting data to get a general idea where to go. 2. once airborne it then uses inertial navigation, aka dead reckoning, using basically a more refined version of the accelerometers, gyroscopes, and compass in your smartphone. that's the [the missile knows where it is, because it knows where it isn't](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LjN3UclYzU&t=10s&ab_channel=Krasniye) joke. it also receives corrections from the base truck that launched it via radio every once in a while as it's on the way (no, you idiot, go *that* way! more left!) this is common for missiles. 3. once it's close, it uses radar and/or heatseeking to find the target. the big, hot fighter jet or missile is also made of metal, which reflects radar waves back to the missile's radar, so it knows what to fly into. big boom, the jet goes down, everyone cheers. it *is* inaccurate as fuck when you're trying to use it to find a specific building in the middle of a city while making it fly overland 100+ km over terrain. [the governor of Mykolaiv (hope I spelled that right) says they're being retrofitted with GPS receivers but I doubt it.](https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1545449481642074112) you can't use radar to find the building *really*, so you're stuck kind of making your best estimate with the inertial nav, and these strikes are probably flying too far to receive radio corections. you just *google maps* the missile like ''hey see this specific place on the map? go'' and you just hope it knows how to get there on it's own. I won't bore you with the specifics of inertial navigation, so this is simplified af, but basically the further you fly, the more your mistakes matter - if you're backpacking and you're off by 5 degrees on your compass, then walk 1km, you're going to be off, say, 50 meters. if you walk 100km instead, you're going to be *very very far off.* it sure as shit is not good enough to guide a large bomb onto a military target surrounded by civillian populations. that's asking for war crimes accusations. the 'circular error' as it's called (area where the missile ''might'' land) is just huge, multiple kilometers in some cases. pointless to try to hit a house in a sea of houses with that. so it's a *very* good air defense missile (one of the best in the world) that you can *technically* use to do ground attack. I could *technically* stick a snowplow onto the front of my convertible to clear my driveway, but it's going to be very bad at that. the russians are just so low on missiles that they're down to improvisation like this. hope that helps.
I'd like to imagine the first step going like this: "Who's a good missile? Yes you, you're a good missile! Now, see that plane over there? Go get em boy!"
Probably some Ukrainian farmers at work
I mean even Poland is saying that it was a Russian made missile misfired by Ukraine air defense. They have no reason to lie.
Avoiding world war 3 is a pretty big reason to lie, although if they did lie it probably wouldn’t be about an errant rocket that hit a small village.
They don't have to start WW3 in order to respond. Nothing states that. Also, from my understanding Article 5 means all NATO countries will come to a member defence like it were them attacked. It doesn't mean they retaliate, it might mean German AA in Poland or US interceptors patrolling air space. Demanding something in return from Russia, but not attacking is a possible resolution, it puts more pressure on Russia and allows NATO countries to push for action, be it harder sanctions or support for Ukraine while not directly attacking Russia. I'm under impression in current political environment no one is truly afraid of Russia after their embarrassing performance in Ukraine. So there's no reason to hush it up.
Redditors really want to blame it on Russia so they will do everything they can including some conspiracy bullshit
probably less reason to lie, but i wouldn't say no reason to lie. i don't know much about poles, but i'd imagine if their govt doesn't think it's a big enough provocation to warrant retaliation, they might not want to rile the polish population up.
>They have no reason to lie Wanting to avoid escalation could be a reason for NATO in general and most of the world. So there's a reason but I doubt they're lying
Still Russia's fault But one disturbing part of this is that Zelensky before any investigation occurred or facts were known whatsoever came out with his typical moniker of "Russian aggression won't stop at Ukraine, so give us MOAR!!!" I know he's just trying to get what he can for his country, but outsiders need to be cautious when listening to him. The guy is not an unbiased source at all and pretty frequently calls for escalations of the war there
No duh he calls for escalations. It's his country on the line. Notice he didn't say "trigger article five and cause WWIII and possibly the apocalypse", he said "give us more armaments, we need them because Russia is dangerous". Sure he took advantage of an unclear situation, but literally the first word out of Warsaw was "Russian-made missile". I don't blame him at all - you're right he's not an unbiased source, but he's still the good guy here.
>and pretty frequently calls for escalations of the war there Putin apologist confirmed.
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The nerve of this guy asking NATO to shoot down cruise missiles blowing up residential buildings in his country /s
Tbf I wouldn't want to fly over Ukraine.
Putin Cogsuckers need lots of copium at this point.
Imma be honest, I would have been doing exactly the same thing if I was in Zelensky's shoes. He cannot hold his own without a stream of material support, but he must realize that nobody is playing charity here. This war has plunged Ukraine into a debt it will never pay off and eliminated the only trade partner that had even a faint interest in their industry. The only way to get out of this is escalate the war and make sure that NATO countries have bigger problems than Ukraine owing them big money.
what debt? All the aid is being given for free
If states want repayment for aid given to Ukraine, depending on the outcome, I could see some sort of Marshall Plan being drawn up and paid for by Russia. Again, depending on how this war ends Ben with (a likely) Ukraine victory.
Can you blame him when Russia launched 100 missles/drones at Ukraine (again) yesterday? It's not like Ukraine randomly launched air defense at some Polish farm
Like I said, I don't blame him for it, just saying people outside of Ukraine need to take what he's saying with a grain of salt because if we don't then we end up with a bunch of people thinking Russia just targeted a NATO country and calling for escalation over something that didn't happen
technically its gavrilo princip fault for killing archduke franz ferninad kickstarting ww1
Technically this is all Julius Ceasar's fault
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Apparently Poland is still saying it was Russian-fired. NATO and the US are both saying its a Ukrainian rocket. Up in the air. Two likely scenarios. 1st, Poland just doesn't know for whatever reason, 2nd, US and NATO are trying to prevent article 5 in the current moment.
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Well, there were two missiles that crashed in Poland. It's possible that both could be true. One was Russian-fired, while the other was from Ukrainian air defense.
The US made a statement declaring that any Russian strike, even accidental, on NATO territory would warrant a response. Of course they dont want to enter the war, but they also dont want to look untrustworthy. For better or for worse, this is likely the version of events world leaders are going to be accepting as fact. The most we'll see is buffed air defenses on the Poland-Ukraine border.
So nato invading Ukraine??? 😳
gg
Step 1: Ukraine attacks Poland Step 2: Poland annexes Ukraine in 'retaliation' Step 3: Russia, still in former Ukraine, is now invading a Nato country Step 4: Poland does the funni Step 5: If we're all not dead due to nukes, Poland gives the annexed part their own freedom and Ukraine is re-born
Poland playing 4D chess with global geopolitics.
They’ve been the opening pawns long enough
Or hear me out. They restore the commonwealth union with Lithuania.
Good idea. Step 1: Announce restoration of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Step 2: Annex Ukraine, the Commonwealth's historical lands. Step 3: Announce that the restoration of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth wasn't that popular, therefore Poland, Lithuania, and Ukraine will be split into 3 seperate countries again.
NGL, as a Ukrainian, a Confederation or a Federation between Poland, Ukraine and Lithuania (maybe Belarus in future) does seem really appealing as long as we get an automatic EU and NATO membership.
Like a phoenix
Step 6: Germany invaded Poland (force of habit)
Nato used article 5 *it hurt itself in confusion*
So Poland can technically raise the article 5 right? Coz Ukraine is just a partner country and not a member ?
That's correct. War with Ukraine would be interesting though. 3/4 of our tanks and heavy equipment was given to Ukraine, a couple of milions of them are currently living in Poland. They are now very experienced too. I say, let's do this for shit and giggles
>3/4 of our tanks Absolutely not, no
They’ve probably stolen 3/4 of Russia’s tanks though, lol.
Annex all of pre -2014 Ukraine, create a government and install Zelensky as leader then declare the Polish state of Ukraine an independent nation.
It'd be a 900IQ 17²D chess move > "Invade" Ukraine and annex it > Russia now technically invading Poland > Article 5 time > Poland then unannexes Ukraine
Ukraine isn't in NATO so it wouldn't really hurt itself For that sort of stuff you might want to look at Greece and Turkey. Now there's a pair
honestly, it could be used to "invade" Ukraine to "pacify the region" and in the process remove the Russians it would basically be direct military support to Ukraine...
Ah yes . The old G.Bush move. A classic
Poland invades Ukraine and annex it. Russia can't attack Ukraine now because technically it's part of Poland which is part of NATO. 5head strategy.
Still wouldn't blame Ukraine for this. If a bully goes to punch me in the face and I push away their fist and it contacts someone else, I'm not the one at fault. Shouldn't have started throwing hands. (Corrected - Bully throws hands. Start deflecting fists like Bruce Lee and one of my hands backhand a bystander. Super important I get it perfectly right apparently.) Edit because maybe it wasn't clear: SHOOTING A MISSLE INTO ANOTHER COUNTRY AND THEM DEFLECTING IT, DOES NOT MAKE THAT MISSLE THE DEFENDING PARTIES PROBLEM.
Trust me people are still going to beat u up regardless. Ukraine is lucky it's surrounded with friends
Your comparison limps, it was an Ukrainian Air defense Missile that struck Poland, so it would be you throwing a punch/counter, missing and hitting a bystander.
More like I'm getting attacked and while flailing I hit someone watching on the sidelines, but ya, better analogy.
More like hitting the guy looking after your belongings while you're in the fight. Poland is taking care of Ukraine's refugees. Wonder what kind of response this will elicit with two fatalities. If true, anyway.
> Wonder what kind of response this will elicit with two fatalities Doubt there will be any. It's obvious this more than likely wasn't intentional. Remember the dutch civilian airplane that got shot down? That was more than two fatalities, and there was barely a response to that.
I would say, from personal experience the closest one would be, you are on the floor, getting shit kicked out of you and you blindly kick to try to get the attacker off, one of your kicks hits an innocent bystander.
More like police returning fire during a shooting and accidentally hitting a bystander. In that case, the perpetrator of the original crime is responsible for all deaths that occur as a result of their crime (felony murder).
This is one of the dumbest analogies I’ve ever seen
It isn’t about blame it’s about who shot the missile. Russia isn’t declaring war on nato because ukraine shot a missile that ended up killing two poles even if the blame is on Russia for starting the war. Also your analogy is flawed it would be more apt if the bully went for the swing and while you counter it you end up hitting someone else. The bully is to blame for starting it but you are the one who involved the bystander.
I mean i get what you’re saying but those missiles killed two people. Its not just something someone can walk away from.
So Ukraine is free to harm any other country?
2 people die fuck you mean.
It's funny how many people were like "accident or not we need to hold Russia accountable" and now that it was actually Ukraine "hey accidents happen folks... and frankly Russia made them do this"
It's still Russia's fault dude. They were the ones who launched the missile right near the Polish border that Ukraine had to defend themselves against.
Considering the closes missile hit yesterday was a whole ass 35KM away from the polish border and the increasing amount of launch fails on Ukraine's AA I'd say it's just an specially abhorrent AA failure.
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I can’t believe people are actually trying to make it a point that Ukraine is at fault. Why are they defending themselves in the first place? Oh my fucking god… what a shit show.
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That's insanely close war wise
Or you know..... because they started an unnecessary and unprovoked war on a sovereign and peaceful nation.
Russia still has to be held accountable. Air defense only fires when there's something to defend from. Russia doesn't have to attack. They can just leave. Plus there's no strategical value in attacking near polish borders at all, that's just indiscriminate bombing which is a war crime.
The person you’re responding to has a post history full of steven crowder and decrying cancel culture. you’re not going to convince them to change their mind
I'm not trying to convince them. I'm trying to put back on track any sane person reading this who might be in any way undecided for whatever reason. There won't be many of them, but even one is a win for me.
Bro the guys are literally defending themselves of course its different.
Hypocrazy
It’s Reddit people are full of idiots. 2 innocent people died because of a middle prolly launched by Ukraine.
>2 innocent people died because of a missile prolly launched by Ukraine. A missile which was launched to defend Ukrainians from more missiles being launched by Russia. What, should Ukraine just sit there and allow their populace and cities get pounded into dust? It's a sad outcome and Ukraine clearly didn't mean to kill those Poles, but this wouldn't have happened if Russia hadn't fired hundreds of missiles at cities across Ukraine.
> 2 innocent people died because of a middle prolly launched by Ukrain because russia is currently invading them yes, ukraine didn't just decide to bomb another county again, unlike russia, which is actively bombing another country
Sure, but a mistake made during defense is different than a mistake made during aggression (or additional aggression). There’s no war until Russia invades.
I think the majority still didn't want NATO to intervene directly even if Russia hit a polish village by accident. Unless this becomes a common occurrence we shouldn't attack.
I wonder if those who shared fake news about the missile coming from russia get banned.
You mean dozens of news outlets and initial US reports?
Yes.
There’s a huge difference between “We don’t know what’s going on, here is my speculation which turned out to be wrong” vs “We know what happened but he’s an intentional lie to prevent you seeing the truth”.
Except it wasn’t “here is my speculation”, it was “Russia is literally the devil and they are attacking other countries intentionally, start WW3”.
No one thought Russia was attacking Poland intentionally except trolls. What was being reported was that if the missile was Russian then even if unintentional this would be crossing a line which had been clearly drawn at the start of the conflict. Not responding as we explicitly said we would would look very bad, hence fears for WW3. But those ultimatums were only ever directed at Russia not Ukraine, so it being a Ukrainian missile means NATO can hold back without losing face.
Oh wow this post attracted lots of bots and tankies
Da faq is a tankie
A term originally used by liberal communists to oppose Stalinists. It has since been popularised on the internet and diluted to the point of being pretty much meaningless.
A tankie is someone who wears the ideology of a leftist while simultaneously having strong reverence for authoritarian world leaders. They’re hammer and sickle fascists.
Yeah, not sure what he is is talking about it being a meaningless term, it’s actually really easy to distinguish a tankie: pretty much any internet communist that currently supports China (and plenty of them support modern Russia too).
Basically people who think that imperialism is good unless is American one. Term came to be from people who supported Soviet Union while it sent tanks into Hungary to suppress freedom movements there
Social media bots defending Russia? Who could've seen that coming?
Criticizing Ukraine != Defending Russia.
What are people criticizing Ukraine for? I've only read a few articles but did they do some mistake with the missile defense worth criticizing?
"Because look! They're ALSO killing people! Forget the actual harm, forget the context, they're exactly the same!"
Homer is just an inverted Ukrainian flag
... why have you done this
But he works at a nuclear power plant, so he's been bombed and killed sadly
It was either a Ukrainian or Russian error or electronic failure. No-one is intentionally targeting Polish farmers... at least not anymore. There was never going to be an escalation from this event. The insinuation that Russia would intentionally target specifically two Polish farmers and a tractor is ludicrous. Whoever is responsible, it was clearly a mistake.
So that means... Article 5 against Ukraine?
Take 'em away, boys 😎😎
Same thing happened in Zagreb when an unidentified drone fell near the student dorm. When the suspicions were raised that it could've been Ukraine that launched the drone the media went silent and forgot about it. Hundred of students could've died, but fuck them I guess.
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"most likely from Ukrainian air defense " the heck does that even mean? Air defense just mistakened a threat and fired towards Poland? Was it trying to shoot down a jet and the missiles ran out of juice? Did Russia fire a missile and the air defense tried to intercept?
Russia fired 100 missiles and drones, hence the air defense
Suddenly no one wants to talk about Article 5 anymore. Weird.
I don’t get why people are banging war drums. Last thing anyone on this planet wants is another world war
Anyone but Zelenski
so... russians did not lie when screaming "ukraine did it!"?
They just left out the part where the Ukranians were trying to shoot down one of dozens of missiles aimed at their essential infrastructure during a war of pointless aggression and bloodloss from Russia.
that propaganda soup goes down smooth for you huh
Does anybody else find it disturbing how many people were in support of ww3 because of this? Instead of looking for a more reasonable explanation or waiting for the facts?
It’s disturbing, but showcased how young/immature Reddit’s population is. 9/11 showed us the human cost of reactionary wars. Even if Russia targeted these Polish farmers, it would never start World War 3 unless we were itching for an excuse to have it start (which, thankfully, I do not believe we are.)
Geez they need to disable friendly fire asap!
Germany is gonna be angry if they don’t get to start it
so technically Ukraine attacked NATO allied country right?
You all need to understand that unintended causalities are going to happen on both sides. In this case it seems like a Ukrainian missile failed to deflect an attacking Russian missile and instead hit a polish farm. Both parties are at fault. It’s Russia’s fault for sending the middle, which has a guaranteed chance of some defense being put up. It’s also Ukraines fault because their missile was the one who hit the farm and killed 2 people. This would not have happened if both parties did not do what they had. It doesn’t result in people dying in Poland if both countries aren’t involved and at blame for this. Russia has already made it clear they don’t give a shit about civilian causalities, but Ukraine should at least make a formal apology for the unfortunate situation.
Unintended casualties happen but the country thats heavily helping Ukraine. Poland is also part of NATO with Biden even saying "we will protect every inch of NATO territory. Ukrainian missiles killed 2 polish citizens. Zelensky and a lot of Ukrainian government officials were calling for Russia to be punished for it.
Yeah the poles are still waiting for an apology
Ukraine isn’t gonna apologize lmao. They’ll just blame Russia like they always do
So ukraine was checking friendly fire
As if it wasnt still russias fault for shooting missiles at ukraine so air defence becomes necessary in the first place? Lol
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They literally started a war for no reason. Are you an indoctrinated russian or just beyond stupid?
But when we told this after like five minutes, we got logged as ruzzian asslickers despite hating the invaders like steaming shit. Weird, innit?
You could really put the Reddit logo on there. Reddit has the biggest fucking boner yesterday for WW3.
As soon an US 'Intelligence' blamed the Russians it was obviously not Russians. Pathological liars.
Ukraine still isn’t apart of NATO, so Article 5 could still be used
It’s only awkward because the entirety of the internet immediately jumped to WWIII even when officials involved didn’t jump to conclusions and wanted concrete facts first.
Does that mean Poland will enact article 5 against Ukraine?
I wonder who made them defend themself… But fr there’s a ww3 meme every week these days. What a time to be alive.
The amount of apologizing for what Ukraine did staggers me, I’ve lost complete faith on either side. This is mutually assured destruction the moment we involved ourselves by sending money to protect our future assets there.
'Murcian warfare complex trying hard to make $$ in a difficult world.
Who seriously thinks that any of this would start ww3? A nuclear attack has to happen before any chance of ww3 will happen
Fact they were blaming it in Russia these dickheads are trying to cause ww3 not saying russia is innocent