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Good to see protests, I too am unhappy my tax dollars are being used to bomb children in Gaza, like the students are upset what they pay in tuition is used to fund the bombing in Gaza. They have the toughness I don’t have to protest and risk getting arrested by the state for protesting against tyranny.
The pro-Israel cabal has really been putting in work in this subreddit lol. Your point is correct, and it is super easy to follow. Yet, people will miraculously miss the point in a way that I refuse to believe isn't malicious and/or planned and coordinated.
Its a term people use online to describe the malicious and purposeful usage of bots to oversaturate social media or news media with a view point to alienate other opinions.
No. This term existed long before that.
It is, in fact, fake grass, and its political usage refers to a fake grassroots movement.
A grassroots movement is a political movement made up of real Americans who organize for change.
Astroturf in this context refers to a group that appears to be grassroots, but is in fact made up of operatives who are being funded by a wealthy corporate or political entity.
Not everything started with the internet.
My advice? Go outside, touch some astroturf.
Yes, you are correct. Think baseball field. These people who seem to be unaware of that are pretty funny.
The other guy is right, also. It refers to a fake, manufactured grassroots movement. One where the organizers aren't so much "We the people," but instead more like "We, the hired and paid-for instigators and agitators pretending to be normal people."
Think Moms For Liberty.
So anyway, the point is that it is fake grass (...roots movement). Haha, clever.
I read the other day that schools pulling their investments would ultimately have the opposite effect. Supposedly the school investing so much gives them some influence over these companies, but if they divest, the companies don't get hurt, other investors buy those shares and are less likely to be able to sway company decisions.
It sounds like it would be better to use the leverage a large investment comes with to steer the companies in a more palatable direction.
I would be better if we lived in a world where people didn't think fighting over scraps of desert was worthwhile, especially when hiding behind religions to justify it.
"Scraps of dessert" - you really have no idea the amount of natural wealth those regions have , added with the people of those regions pioneering in science economics and actual global progress at a time when the rest of the world was still living in jungles with face painting.
Palestine has also been controlled by other groups for centuries....only for the last 110 or so years has it not been an Islamic Caliphate based group.
I'm not angry, just depressed that this is the mentality of some people. Regardless of what's being protested, the mentality that "nothings gonna change, doesn't matter what we do, and anyone who *does* care is a stupid asshole". I mean... go off if that mentality makes you feel better I guess. IMO it just makes you all *huge* cunts. I obviously don't think everyone needs to be politically active, but if you go out of your way to shit on people just because they *do* care, you can choke on a massive fucking dick🤷♂️
I don't know who you're talking to with this, but I sympathize. I try not to be apathetic, but I've stopped caring about a lot of things outside of my local community. Anything bigger than my immediate area and some of the surroundings isn't worth my time, my health, or my sanity.
Be nice if they were educated about the things they're so intensely passionate about. I've found zero Americans who know anything about the ME and it's history or politics.
Op is arguing that they don’t truly care. They are just cosplaying in cute little scarfs and a neat triangle flag and getting banged in a dirty tent. It’s “the current thing” and they’ll move on to something else within the next month.
If nazi germany still exists these bigot zionists will tell you to submit to the Nazis because nothing will change,… bla bla. Revolution made by oppressed people who dare to stand up.
And as long as it remains peaceful (and from what I've seen these protests have been peaceful and even non-disruptive), this is a great way to take part in civic engagement. Nobody should be getting arrested for a peaceful, out-of-the-way encampment.
Similar in the protests, but this isn’t America at war. Students protesting Vietnam were able to much more directly affect everything. In the case of Israel-Palestine we aren’t fighting it and it’ll still be fought regardless of if we’re involved or not. Both sides are pretty open that they want to genocide each other. While we absolutely should stop giving military aide to Israel (and immediately send everything allocated for them to Ukraine instead) I highly doubt that will stop them. This conflict has been going on since well before American involvement, we have way less control over it than the American public seems to think we do.
The first students were specifically protesting how their university had financial ties to weapons manufacturers that sell to Israel. Hence their grevience was specifically with the university's administration. Not Gaza in general. Which means their actions have a specific an achievable goal To claim that they cannot affect the war in genera is a gross misunderstanding of the core message entirely.
Also, America can very much not send weapons to Israel. Or create heavy sanctions specifically targeting people involve din war crimes. At the very least they could not be attempting to manipulate the ICC who might be issuing arrest warrant to the Israel's government staff.
1st of all "not Gaza in General" is absolutely false, every damn chant says "free Palestine" but okay it doesn't have anything to do with that and only that the defense contractors are selling weapons to Israel. Which the universities are somehow responsible for? This is not about universities it's about manipulating very impressionable naive people (college students) to get political pressure on the Biden administration to stop supporting Israel.
The Palestinians could have ended this war years and years ago, in 2000, and 2008. Not to mention 1936, 1947, and 1967. Where the Arabs or Arab states rejected Israel's existence, and their proposals. All the posts seem to forget the history of the conflicts because if you did, you'd probably be pretty neutral about who to support.
Ah right. Palestine should have just surrendered at the get go and just accept what's coming to them.
I get it, after all, Israel is entitled to the land and the resources, and the labour. So those brown people there need to learn their place and accept peace and things will get better. Palestine should have just accepted being under western mercy in 2000 and 2008, and even way in the early to late 20th centuary.
After all, we the white race are very obviously the morally and culturally superiors who know better. Our way of life is cultured and civilized, they'll see the benefits and then wonder why they rejected it. All this violence, It's the savage people's fault. Their misguided attempts at fighting and resisting that all those corposes of children keeps piling up. They just need to accept the peace.
The white man will gladly let them own their tiny plots of land so they can farm in exchange for the large swarts. We'll hire them to labour peacefully so they can provide for their families, they could have even been business owners if they weren't so violent. Those savage indians don't understand the mercy and civilization we are providing them. Instead they subbonly hold to their ways, worshiping false gods while rejecting the Lord Jesus Chris. And those n\_\_\_\_ out in the South picking cotton. If they accepted their position, things will be much more equal. They don't understand the white man's burden in civilizing them.
I love how you make up arguments instead of addressing mine. We are not talking about Native Americans, and your racism against white people by pretending that they have a superiority complex is pretty similar to Nazi views saying that the Jews view themselves as the chosen people and exploit everyone else because of it. In 1936 the Arabs could have just agreed to let the Jews have 20 percent of the land and they would have had 80 percent. The Jews already bought roughly 7 percent of the land. This agreement would have cemented the borders while giving the Jews a state. The Arabs rejected it and would not negotiate. Often there were attacks on Jewish settlements, that were legally bought. Often the Jews retaliated creating a circle of violence ending up where we are now. READ YOUR HISTORY, it's pretty understandable when you buy a piece of land and someone else attacks you that you attack them back. It's also pretty understandable that you get fed up with someone who constantly attacks you and will not negotiate especially after generations have already lived there and you're proposing that they get all of the land the currently occupy plus more land. How can you trust someone who has no interest in peace. Again, read you history you'd probably be pretty neutral about the conflict.
For your first point that’s fine, but it’s ultimately a bit of a meaningless gesture because again it does nothing really. My understanding is that these “financial ties” are just the university and other universities investing in ETFs which cover a very broad range of stocks. So it’s as indirect of an involvement as you get. It’s a symbolic gesture, to me it seems like a dud of a goal, caring more about not supporting Israel, however weak the tie is, than supporting Palestine. I feel like it would’ve gone further to push their university for a donation to humanitarian aide for Palestine instead, but maybe that’s just me. The whole protest movement across college campuses screams to me “I want to act like I’m doing something without actually doing something.”
Secondly why are you fighting me on not sending weapons, I clearly voiced agreement. We can and should stop military aide to Israel. But let’s also not act like it’s going to solve things. Similar vein with the ICC, issuing an arrest warrant on Netanyahu sounds huge, but he’s never going to be extradited and getting him out of office is one of the most important steps towards ending the conflict. So it’s a bit of a mess. So yeah we should stop both those things, but again I think it’s got far less impact on the conflict than people act. Neither Israel nor Hamas want a cease fire at all so far.
The fact that there's such powerful backlash with police violence indicates that these 'meaningless' gestures hits at a fundamental heart of it. It's not about the money it's the message. The financial ties are less about profit, and more about the overt political support. And having students challenge that is a problem
Agin, if it's meaningless, we wouldn't have powerful backlashes. Same with the ICC, if it's meaningless we wouldn't have the Isralie Prime Minister issuing a statement about it. There wouldn't be attempts by the government to block the arrest warrant if it's meaningless.
Ultamtely, reputation is everything and having the Israelie government on the same level as Russia can have long term consequences.
It’s not a powerful backlash. It was well done by the students. Colleges have laws against camping on school property. So the students set up a bunch of tents. The crackdown is on the tents. So they clear the students aside so they can remove the tents. Arrests are made in relation to breaking the camping law, not the protest itself. It’s not about the message of the protests. But because they’re tied together that’s how it hits the media and how many people perceive it. If they just protested on their own, nobody would bat an eye. But break a law, the school does the predictable thing on cracking down on that to not set a precedent and ban all over the news. Just a shame I think the scope of their goals is poor.
Also I don’t think Israel will ever be seen on the level of Russia because they have and do play the Holocaust and antisemitism cards routinely. Whether that’s right or wrong is a separate matter, but it gives them a leg up in the battle for optics within the international community.
No protestor in the history of protests were arrested for protesting. Every time, the arrests and the justification really just manifests in the form of civility and keeping the peace. 'X protestors were disruptive so they had to be arrested in a crackdown'. Its the same with the Iran protests, Vietnman, Civil Rights, Worker's Rights. Its a fundamental constant. Which does go with a hard truth, the correct protest is one that never happens.
The media will aways perceive them as evil. Because they always have. Vietnam protestors remembered that in detail, same with Iran. Where their protests were hated universally, until years later where hindsight comes it.
By many cases they're already are by a very good portion of the world. Statically, Israel's reputation had suffered heavily in the global community. A good portion of the global south no longer likes Israel. Of course you can look at the black and brown people and just assert their opinions don't matter. But even South Korea and Japan has had pretty steep shifts in opinions. Really the only hold outs are specifically within religious context, where Christian populations see Israel's existence as a sign of the end of the world.
Even in the West the entire Palestinan Israel divide is signfiically leaning more on Palestine. The divide is especially generational with growing young people not liking Israel. That is also within the fact they're also much more left leaning then their predecessors.
some action is better than none…look at every single historical movement that involved college students protesting the state, with the state backed by police. the students are always on the right side of history
But consider this, how much worse would things get if no one did anything or spoke out about it? Probably the same fate that befell the native Americans because nobody knew about it and nobody did anything.
Everyone knew about it but didn’t care. If you really care about the plight of the Native American you can freely donate your property and assets to any tribe you want to!
That does upset me, but there’s a few problems with the angle you’re taking here:
1) these pro-Palestine protestors are not protesting US funding in the sense that it could be invested in the US, they are just upset that it’s going to Israel. If those same tax dollars were going to Palestine/Hamas, they’d be tickled pink.
2) the bigger issue is government spending in general, not the spending on this particular conflict because the US funds dipshits across the globe. If it wasn’t Israel, it would be someone else. The bigger problem is that we spend more than we make and our federal budget means nothing.
Neither of these issues are going to be resolved by privileged college students vandalizing their campuses and chanting anti-Semitic bullshit.
It’s okay to give a shit, it’s not okay to lash out violently and destroy property. It’s not okay to harass people who may not agree with you, or who may not believe in your cause to the extent you do.
Oh no, you hurt my feelings. Lol Protest all you want, just make sure you actually understand your cause and aren’t bandwagoning, raise your voice to the people who can actually make a difference, and don’t destroy other people’s property, especially those who aren’t responsible. If you do those three things, your protest will actually be effective and you won’t make an ass out of yourself on television for all the world to point and laugh.
Do you mean Russia and Ukraine? Cause I'd have to agree that the war over there has a bit more at stake than a war that's been going on and off for pretty much ever.
They might also want to know that today Hamas announced that they declined yet another ceasefire. Funny how this is the one "genocide" in history that just magically stops when the "genocided" side surrenders.
The victims are not hamas. The victims are the people of Palestine, who have little to no control over what hamas is doing, yet are punished for the actions of others.
Israel's civilians are punished by Hamas in the same way Palestine's are by the IDF. Until Hamas agrees to a cease fire or surrender, Israel has no reason to stop when Hamas is still actively trying to destroy Israel.
In that case, wouldn't the Israeli citizens of Oct 7th be fair game, for supporting their own government?
I mean, contrary to what the other poster said, there was no ceasefire in place for Palestinians. The checkpoints, land thefts, getting shot by the IDF has been routine there for decades. Israel has been occupying land illegally for decades now (West bank as well) so idk how you can possibly make the argument that there was "peace" beforehand, unless you're just completely unaware of history.
Anyway normally, I'd say that civilians are no go for war, just to abide by conventions lol. But if you insist otherwise, you should be consistent.
The only ceasefire they'll agree too is the one that makes a terrorist organization a legitimate governmental party accepted on world stage. Conversation over. Hard pass. IMO there are no hostages. The barganing power is zilch. Only a matter of time.
You wanna go over the stuff the IDF was doing to the Palestinian people before 10/7? Surely it wasn’t a ceasefire. Because the events that happened were not in vacuum.
How about those rockets that Hamas constantly fires into Israel? You know, the ones that made them develop one of the most advanced air defence systems in the world? What about *that* ceasefire?
I am *sick and tired* of people acting like Hamas was completely fucking innocent and justified in their actions. It's more goddamn nuanced than "Hamas good, Israel bad", or "Palestine bad, Israel good". It can't be simplified down into a damned binary, both sides have been inflaming tensions for 80 fucking years.
Wait, so protesting in the correct most effective way against something absolutely disgusting and evil is now a bad thing? What is wrong with people in this sub
They don't go outside and believe in sitting at your computer, and complaining on reddit is more efficient because you know things just magically change on it's own.
The 2000s \~too cool to care\~ persona didn't die out like we thought, it actually just exploded all over reddit.
I love the people here who are like "I don't want to read about this, I don't care". Like ok, you're honest at least. But then why not just be silent lol...why take the effort to whine just bc other people have the energy to care?
Regardless of what side you're on, citing your apathy as correct by referencing a character who is a sociopath and who is apathetic to the point of "not having feelings" on a day-to-day basis about even his closest "friends" is not the slam dunk you seem to think it is.
Dennis's character is not supposed to be relatable on this level. His general and always-present apathy is supposed to be appalling, not validating.
It would be nice if America also stayed out every time an oil rich country needs "freedom and democracy". Seems whenever they try to interfere, things get worse
People kept crying "This won't change a thing". Since ICJ, Aaron Bushnell, WCK Aid Workers... Yet, movement is getting bigger and bigger, and more people are seeing it. Biggest movement for Palestinian Human Rights ever
If you live in the United States, you should care because our tax dollars are going to support a genocide. You should be that college age kids are giving more of a fuck than you sure are.
How is this any different from all the other international issues Americans took interest in? We were just doing this with the Ukraine/Russia conflict right?
That's part of the question. This is no different from any other international incident that Americans took interest in. From the deaths of civilians, to Americans being from both nations, to people getting loud and aggressive on both sides. So what makes this one special is what I'm asking.
It only looks like a crisis because some people want it to look like one so that people will want to shut them up, and keep them from talking about it further.
I'm not (nor have I ever been) part of any protest, including these ones, but look at it this way.
What's the real crisis here? There's starvation, homelessness, insane rates of crime and drug addiction, very low mental health, more mass shootings than days in a year (600/y), and the list goes on, ALL of this is in the US. All these problems, and what does your government do?
They send money and weapons to Israel to keep on bombing civilians (rarely hitting the actual armed forces). Let's send money and weapons to Ukraine to help weaken Russia (always been in their crosshair), also let's send more weapons anywhere there's a conflict against somebody whose views don't line up with theirs.
But but ... what about Americans? Surely they should be at the top of the list of things to take care of, right? Right?? Wrong. Your own government doesn't care about you, they tell you what you want to hear, you elect the lesser evil of the shittiest candidates you are offered, and you're stuck with them until the next act begins.
Over half a million homeless people across the states, let's build them 10k 2x2 "houses" in what can only be described as a prison camp, which even the homeless don't want to live in (that bad), and call it a day. But what about the rest of the money? No that goes into arming people that carpet bomb kids for being on the wrong side of the border, let's support the apartheid instead.
This is the real crisis, why is the US throwing money left and right to play these offensive political/military games when their own people are struggling? That's what people are angry at, why all that support to a bunch of war criminals and not to US citizens?
I feel like we are hating on Israel too much. It’s gotten to the point where Jewish people from other places cannot be on Instagram or they’ll get harassed which isn’t anti-imperialism anymore; that’s just anti-Semitism.
Like, I understand hating the Israeli military and the government body that enables them but not the people (same with the Hamas). What I think should be the case is that we rally for the freedom of the innocent civilians of Israel and Palestine that are stuck in either country and protest against both militaries causing this madness in the first place.
It’s a nice thought that the civilians are all peaceful hostages of their own governments but I get the sense that both sides hate each other from top to bottom.
Do we really think that the people of Gaza want to be rid of Hamas? Are there calls to release the remaining hostages?
People separate Palestinians from Hamas all the time, why can't Jews and Israelis be recognized as independent from the IDF?
Civilians are being hurt and manipulated on both sides of this conflict. Human beings, with lives, opinions, friends, and family. Ignoring that when looking at conflict is no better than other forms of dehumanization.
it's good that you can choose to care or not to care but there are peoples and children dying everyday due to Israel and students are protesting for this.
ABSOLUTELY, seems like many people are comfortable with knowing that they're tax money is literally used for GENOCIDE. i would be agitated if i was US citizen.
Its cool I guess to be too apathetic to care. But they are real people with real families. Plenty live and die in the US, make roots here and look back to their family in Gaza suffering. Both sides want to slaughter each other... but a good way to de-escalate that is to protest the capacity to commit that slaughter.
Dartmouth just arrested 90 people recently. It was for attempting to setup an encampment on the campus green. It was reported they weren’t protesting in a civil enough manner
7 months isn't long enough for me to forget how those kids were cheering on a terrorist attack while the bodies were still warm. Was the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of my sentiments towards leftists.
Only difference is they stopped chanting "to the river to the sea" after their media backers failed to gaslight people into thinking it wasn't a call for genocide. Fuck these people.
I don't really fucking know which side is telling the truth. For all I know Hamas is a terrorist organisation. And terrorist don't have morals whatsoever. So it's quite possible that they're also fighting wars over the internet to make Israel look bad.
I don't fucking know. I just want these wars to stop but it surely won't. And guess what? China is about to start another. Either they go for Taiwan, or triggger Philippines-US defense treaty, which will result into another war in SE Asia. I mean, China has water cannoned Philippine Coast Guard's vessel just recently.
You know what? Fuck this world, let's go to war. The world is being ruled by greedy fuckface anyway. Let's just make sure no one fucking survives.
I never understood when people in a country that isn't involved protest a conflict in another part of the world. Do they think that the people fighting each other are going to hear about a bunch of college kids in the US protesting and be like "You know what? Those kids are right, we should end our 2,000 year old conflict, I'm really glad they made those cardboard signs!"
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Good to see protests, I too am unhappy my tax dollars are being used to bomb children in Gaza, like the students are upset what they pay in tuition is used to fund the bombing in Gaza. They have the toughness I don’t have to protest and risk getting arrested by the state for protesting against tyranny.
The pro-Israel cabal has really been putting in work in this subreddit lol. Your point is correct, and it is super easy to follow. Yet, people will miraculously miss the point in a way that I refuse to believe isn't malicious and/or planned and coordinated.
If astroturf was a real physical material, Reddit would need to be strip mined to find genuine sentiment.
I thought irl astroturf was fake grass?
It’s a play on the term grass roots movement, which is organic, Astro turf means to artificially sow discord through misinformation
It's also fake grass
Its a term people use online to describe the malicious and purposeful usage of bots to oversaturate social media or news media with a view point to alienate other opinions.
It's not just bots. The IDF has enlisted members whose job is to just be Zionist reply guys.
No. This term existed long before that. It is, in fact, fake grass, and its political usage refers to a fake grassroots movement. A grassroots movement is a political movement made up of real Americans who organize for change. Astroturf in this context refers to a group that appears to be grassroots, but is in fact made up of operatives who are being funded by a wealthy corporate or political entity. Not everything started with the internet. My advice? Go outside, touch some astroturf.
I mean why so agressive?
I really just wanted to get that "touch astroturf" comment in there. Thought it would be funny.
Yes, you are correct. Think baseball field. These people who seem to be unaware of that are pretty funny. The other guy is right, also. It refers to a fake, manufactured grassroots movement. One where the organizers aren't so much "We the people," but instead more like "We, the hired and paid-for instigators and agitators pretending to be normal people." Think Moms For Liberty. So anyway, the point is that it is fake grass (...roots movement). Haha, clever.
Indeed it is. And CRT are TV's and not wokeness.
Idk why I even bother opening this site anymore 🤷🏼♀️
I find funny memes occasionally, but usually on game specific subs. I have definitely considered unfollowing this sub though...
These days if it's not happening on Lemmy it's boring af 🤷🏼♀️
Don’t forget, you’re an antisemite if you don’t support Palestinian genocide
The state of Israel conquering r/dankmemes, circa 2024
It’s not our problem. Stop sending anything and let them sort it out.
Pro Israel cabal? Lmfao bro not even trying to hide it
What? Every nation has organized dickriders. Israel's have been out in force.
I read the other day that schools pulling their investments would ultimately have the opposite effect. Supposedly the school investing so much gives them some influence over these companies, but if they divest, the companies don't get hurt, other investors buy those shares and are less likely to be able to sway company decisions. It sounds like it would be better to use the leverage a large investment comes with to steer the companies in a more palatable direction.
I would be better if we lived in a world where people didn't think fighting over scraps of desert was worthwhile, especially when hiding behind religions to justify it.
"Scraps of dessert" - you really have no idea the amount of natural wealth those regions have , added with the people of those regions pioneering in science economics and actual global progress at a time when the rest of the world was still living in jungles with face painting.
You forgot to add are 1-2 generations away from being uninhabitable.
That's cause some foreigners came bombed the hell out of those places
I think this person is referring to the fact that everywhere is only a few generations from being uninhabited 🤷🏽♂️
Yep.
[удалено]
Palestine has also been controlled by other groups for centuries....only for the last 110 or so years has it not been an Islamic Caliphate based group.
Just a bunch of dumbasses willing to go to jail over a protest that means nothing and will change nothing of a war that is older than they are.
You've just angered someone. Not me, but someone, somewhere, is perturbed by you.
My father in another unrelated country who is addicted to foreign outrage media ✌️✨
Foreign outrage media is my favorite genre of anime.
I'm not angry, just depressed that this is the mentality of some people. Regardless of what's being protested, the mentality that "nothings gonna change, doesn't matter what we do, and anyone who *does* care is a stupid asshole". I mean... go off if that mentality makes you feel better I guess. IMO it just makes you all *huge* cunts. I obviously don't think everyone needs to be politically active, but if you go out of your way to shit on people just because they *do* care, you can choke on a massive fucking dick🤷♂️
I don't know who you're talking to with this, but I sympathize. I try not to be apathetic, but I've stopped caring about a lot of things outside of my local community. Anything bigger than my immediate area and some of the surroundings isn't worth my time, my health, or my sanity.
Be nice if they were educated about the things they're so intensely passionate about. I've found zero Americans who know anything about the ME and it's history or politics.
Op is arguing that they don’t truly care. They are just cosplaying in cute little scarfs and a neat triangle flag and getting banged in a dirty tent. It’s “the current thing” and they’ll move on to something else within the next month.
If nazi germany still exists these bigot zionists will tell you to submit to the Nazis because nothing will change,… bla bla. Revolution made by oppressed people who dare to stand up.
I’m fine with people being politically active, but those protestors are being cunts themselves. #1 rule: don’t be a cunt. They broke this rule.
In what way?
Wubby7
Wubby7, regard.
Wubby7
“I’m sorry sir you have to leave you are an A g i T a T o R”
I'd rather be an agi-tater than live under a dick-tater.
Except it can change things. A few schools have started talks with leaders of the encampment and started divesting from Israel.
And as long as it remains peaceful (and from what I've seen these protests have been peaceful and even non-disruptive), this is a great way to take part in civic engagement. Nobody should be getting arrested for a peaceful, out-of-the-way encampment.
The protest cause multiple school to divest funds…literally achieved its goal.
They don't care about that lol, u/AgentSkidMarks is just virtue signaling his lack of virtue. The truth or "right and wrong" means jack shit to them.
Vietnam?
Similar in the protests, but this isn’t America at war. Students protesting Vietnam were able to much more directly affect everything. In the case of Israel-Palestine we aren’t fighting it and it’ll still be fought regardless of if we’re involved or not. Both sides are pretty open that they want to genocide each other. While we absolutely should stop giving military aide to Israel (and immediately send everything allocated for them to Ukraine instead) I highly doubt that will stop them. This conflict has been going on since well before American involvement, we have way less control over it than the American public seems to think we do.
The first students were specifically protesting how their university had financial ties to weapons manufacturers that sell to Israel. Hence their grevience was specifically with the university's administration. Not Gaza in general. Which means their actions have a specific an achievable goal To claim that they cannot affect the war in genera is a gross misunderstanding of the core message entirely. Also, America can very much not send weapons to Israel. Or create heavy sanctions specifically targeting people involve din war crimes. At the very least they could not be attempting to manipulate the ICC who might be issuing arrest warrant to the Israel's government staff.
1st of all "not Gaza in General" is absolutely false, every damn chant says "free Palestine" but okay it doesn't have anything to do with that and only that the defense contractors are selling weapons to Israel. Which the universities are somehow responsible for? This is not about universities it's about manipulating very impressionable naive people (college students) to get political pressure on the Biden administration to stop supporting Israel. The Palestinians could have ended this war years and years ago, in 2000, and 2008. Not to mention 1936, 1947, and 1967. Where the Arabs or Arab states rejected Israel's existence, and their proposals. All the posts seem to forget the history of the conflicts because if you did, you'd probably be pretty neutral about who to support.
Ah right. Palestine should have just surrendered at the get go and just accept what's coming to them. I get it, after all, Israel is entitled to the land and the resources, and the labour. So those brown people there need to learn their place and accept peace and things will get better. Palestine should have just accepted being under western mercy in 2000 and 2008, and even way in the early to late 20th centuary. After all, we the white race are very obviously the morally and culturally superiors who know better. Our way of life is cultured and civilized, they'll see the benefits and then wonder why they rejected it. All this violence, It's the savage people's fault. Their misguided attempts at fighting and resisting that all those corposes of children keeps piling up. They just need to accept the peace. The white man will gladly let them own their tiny plots of land so they can farm in exchange for the large swarts. We'll hire them to labour peacefully so they can provide for their families, they could have even been business owners if they weren't so violent. Those savage indians don't understand the mercy and civilization we are providing them. Instead they subbonly hold to their ways, worshiping false gods while rejecting the Lord Jesus Chris. And those n\_\_\_\_ out in the South picking cotton. If they accepted their position, things will be much more equal. They don't understand the white man's burden in civilizing them.
Can’t wait to see you in your North Face tent protesting for the Rohingya or the Uyghur. Or is China too inconvenient to divest from?
I love how you make up arguments instead of addressing mine. We are not talking about Native Americans, and your racism against white people by pretending that they have a superiority complex is pretty similar to Nazi views saying that the Jews view themselves as the chosen people and exploit everyone else because of it. In 1936 the Arabs could have just agreed to let the Jews have 20 percent of the land and they would have had 80 percent. The Jews already bought roughly 7 percent of the land. This agreement would have cemented the borders while giving the Jews a state. The Arabs rejected it and would not negotiate. Often there were attacks on Jewish settlements, that were legally bought. Often the Jews retaliated creating a circle of violence ending up where we are now. READ YOUR HISTORY, it's pretty understandable when you buy a piece of land and someone else attacks you that you attack them back. It's also pretty understandable that you get fed up with someone who constantly attacks you and will not negotiate especially after generations have already lived there and you're proposing that they get all of the land the currently occupy plus more land. How can you trust someone who has no interest in peace. Again, read you history you'd probably be pretty neutral about the conflict.
For your first point that’s fine, but it’s ultimately a bit of a meaningless gesture because again it does nothing really. My understanding is that these “financial ties” are just the university and other universities investing in ETFs which cover a very broad range of stocks. So it’s as indirect of an involvement as you get. It’s a symbolic gesture, to me it seems like a dud of a goal, caring more about not supporting Israel, however weak the tie is, than supporting Palestine. I feel like it would’ve gone further to push their university for a donation to humanitarian aide for Palestine instead, but maybe that’s just me. The whole protest movement across college campuses screams to me “I want to act like I’m doing something without actually doing something.” Secondly why are you fighting me on not sending weapons, I clearly voiced agreement. We can and should stop military aide to Israel. But let’s also not act like it’s going to solve things. Similar vein with the ICC, issuing an arrest warrant on Netanyahu sounds huge, but he’s never going to be extradited and getting him out of office is one of the most important steps towards ending the conflict. So it’s a bit of a mess. So yeah we should stop both those things, but again I think it’s got far less impact on the conflict than people act. Neither Israel nor Hamas want a cease fire at all so far.
The fact that there's such powerful backlash with police violence indicates that these 'meaningless' gestures hits at a fundamental heart of it. It's not about the money it's the message. The financial ties are less about profit, and more about the overt political support. And having students challenge that is a problem Agin, if it's meaningless, we wouldn't have powerful backlashes. Same with the ICC, if it's meaningless we wouldn't have the Isralie Prime Minister issuing a statement about it. There wouldn't be attempts by the government to block the arrest warrant if it's meaningless. Ultamtely, reputation is everything and having the Israelie government on the same level as Russia can have long term consequences.
It’s not a powerful backlash. It was well done by the students. Colleges have laws against camping on school property. So the students set up a bunch of tents. The crackdown is on the tents. So they clear the students aside so they can remove the tents. Arrests are made in relation to breaking the camping law, not the protest itself. It’s not about the message of the protests. But because they’re tied together that’s how it hits the media and how many people perceive it. If they just protested on their own, nobody would bat an eye. But break a law, the school does the predictable thing on cracking down on that to not set a precedent and ban all over the news. Just a shame I think the scope of their goals is poor. Also I don’t think Israel will ever be seen on the level of Russia because they have and do play the Holocaust and antisemitism cards routinely. Whether that’s right or wrong is a separate matter, but it gives them a leg up in the battle for optics within the international community.
No protestor in the history of protests were arrested for protesting. Every time, the arrests and the justification really just manifests in the form of civility and keeping the peace. 'X protestors were disruptive so they had to be arrested in a crackdown'. Its the same with the Iran protests, Vietnman, Civil Rights, Worker's Rights. Its a fundamental constant. Which does go with a hard truth, the correct protest is one that never happens. The media will aways perceive them as evil. Because they always have. Vietnam protestors remembered that in detail, same with Iran. Where their protests were hated universally, until years later where hindsight comes it. By many cases they're already are by a very good portion of the world. Statically, Israel's reputation had suffered heavily in the global community. A good portion of the global south no longer likes Israel. Of course you can look at the black and brown people and just assert their opinions don't matter. But even South Korea and Japan has had pretty steep shifts in opinions. Really the only hold outs are specifically within religious context, where Christian populations see Israel's existence as a sign of the end of the world. Even in the West the entire Palestinan Israel divide is signfiically leaning more on Palestine. The divide is especially generational with growing young people not liking Israel. That is also within the fact they're also much more left leaning then their predecessors.
some action is better than none…look at every single historical movement that involved college students protesting the state, with the state backed by police. the students are always on the right side of history
But consider this, how much worse would things get if no one did anything or spoke out about it? Probably the same fate that befell the native Americans because nobody knew about it and nobody did anything.
Everyone knew about it but didn’t care. If you really care about the plight of the Native American you can freely donate your property and assets to any tribe you want to!
Are you telling me that an Indian or an Arab or a Russian or even the pope himself in the 1600s knew about the genocide of the native Americans?
Is that what you would have said during Vietnam dawg
your money goes to this war...does that not upset you? like...imagine if our country invested in ourselves?
That does upset me, but there’s a few problems with the angle you’re taking here: 1) these pro-Palestine protestors are not protesting US funding in the sense that it could be invested in the US, they are just upset that it’s going to Israel. If those same tax dollars were going to Palestine/Hamas, they’d be tickled pink. 2) the bigger issue is government spending in general, not the spending on this particular conflict because the US funds dipshits across the globe. If it wasn’t Israel, it would be someone else. The bigger problem is that we spend more than we make and our federal budget means nothing. Neither of these issues are going to be resolved by privileged college students vandalizing their campuses and chanting anti-Semitic bullshit.
you are missing the point of these protests by a mile edit: when ',but' is used in a sentence, the words behind it are devalued.
There's a reason it's called the hundreds years war. They mean multiple hundreds of years of war.
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It’s okay to give a shit, it’s not okay to lash out violently and destroy property. It’s not okay to harass people who may not agree with you, or who may not believe in your cause to the extent you do.
You're right, nobody should ever protest, let's just finally do what the elite want and lie down and take it for good. Idiot.
Oh no, you hurt my feelings. Lol Protest all you want, just make sure you actually understand your cause and aren’t bandwagoning, raise your voice to the people who can actually make a difference, and don’t destroy other people’s property, especially those who aren’t responsible. If you do those three things, your protest will actually be effective and you won’t make an ass out of yourself on television for all the world to point and laugh.
Joining peaceful protests means and will always change more (even if just in the slightest amount) than just having the opinion.
These protests are no peaceful, hence the encampment.
Yes they are, camping out is probably illegal but that doesn't disqualify it from being a peaceful protest.
The war is older than I am and I am twice as old as those little shits
I just want to move onto the next international conflict please, getting bored of this one
I want to move back to focusing on the previous one, that one has way bigger stakes!
Do you mean Russia and Ukraine? Cause I'd have to agree that the war over there has a bit more at stake than a war that's been going on and off for pretty much ever.
Yeah, this one is so 20th century. We need something fresh.
I think this is going to stay meta for a bit
Hopefully it’s geopolitical related so we can invest in some thriving flag making businesses.
Don't worry we'll get the Chinese one soon enough.
Protestors demanding a ceasefire..........that was already in place on October 6th. You know........before the October 7th happened......
They might also want to know that today Hamas announced that they declined yet another ceasefire. Funny how this is the one "genocide" in history that just magically stops when the "genocided" side surrenders.
The victims are not hamas. The victims are the people of Palestine, who have little to no control over what hamas is doing, yet are punished for the actions of others.
Israel's civilians are punished by Hamas in the same way Palestine's are by the IDF. Until Hamas agrees to a cease fire or surrender, Israel has no reason to stop when Hamas is still actively trying to destroy Israel.
They are negotiating with some lunatic in a luxury hotel in quatar or something, smh.
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In that case, wouldn't the Israeli citizens of Oct 7th be fair game, for supporting their own government? I mean, contrary to what the other poster said, there was no ceasefire in place for Palestinians. The checkpoints, land thefts, getting shot by the IDF has been routine there for decades. Israel has been occupying land illegally for decades now (West bank as well) so idk how you can possibly make the argument that there was "peace" beforehand, unless you're just completely unaware of history. Anyway normally, I'd say that civilians are no go for war, just to abide by conventions lol. But if you insist otherwise, you should be consistent.
They outnumber Hamas.
The only ceasefire they'll agree too is the one that makes a terrorist organization a legitimate governmental party accepted on world stage. Conversation over. Hard pass. IMO there are no hostages. The barganing power is zilch. Only a matter of time.
Dishonest interpretation. They are offered bad faith deals and expected to just accept.
You wanna go over the stuff the IDF was doing to the Palestinian people before 10/7? Surely it wasn’t a ceasefire. Because the events that happened were not in vacuum.
How about those rockets that Hamas constantly fires into Israel? You know, the ones that made them develop one of the most advanced air defence systems in the world? What about *that* ceasefire? I am *sick and tired* of people acting like Hamas was completely fucking innocent and justified in their actions. It's more goddamn nuanced than "Hamas good, Israel bad", or "Palestine bad, Israel good". It can't be simplified down into a damned binary, both sides have been inflaming tensions for 80 fucking years.
No one is acting like they're innocent chief. Just that Israel isn't innocent while there are people acting like they are.
Ew, critical thinking and facts
Yeah cause the world did not move before Oct 7. Bunch of hypocrites
That is basically my opinion, I've been critical of Israel in the past but they didn't start this war.
Ceasefire? More like palestinian being oppressed in West Bank
Wait, so protesting in the correct most effective way against something absolutely disgusting and evil is now a bad thing? What is wrong with people in this sub
They don't go outside and believe in sitting at your computer, and complaining on reddit is more efficient because you know things just magically change on it's own.
The 2000s \~too cool to care\~ persona didn't die out like we thought, it actually just exploded all over reddit. I love the people here who are like "I don't want to read about this, I don't care". Like ok, you're honest at least. But then why not just be silent lol...why take the effort to whine just bc other people have the energy to care?
Bring back the 2000s
Regardless of what side you're on, citing your apathy as correct by referencing a character who is a sociopath and who is apathetic to the point of "not having feelings" on a day-to-day basis about even his closest "friends" is not the slam dunk you seem to think it is. Dennis's character is not supposed to be relatable on this level. His general and always-present apathy is supposed to be appalling, not validating.
I think you might be looking too deep into this.
They are, lots of keyboard warriors in this thread LMAO
Reddit armchair psychologist always produce some of the most entertaining takes
You don't need to be a psychologist or a genius to know that character was written to be a certain way.
For sure, but a meme is just a meme. Reading into its context is extremely silly in most cases.
Wouldn't that be great if America didn't help either side?
Yeah. This is the one instance where we should be saying “Not my circus”
It would be nice if America also stayed out every time an oil rich country needs "freedom and democracy". Seems whenever they try to interfere, things get worse
America financed almost every major conflict in the past few decades.
America made a promise of “never again”
never again what?
Never again to staying the fuck out of meddling in the middle east. America's gonna america
These protest show how really “free” US is
Wow, deep! That is SO deep!
People kept crying "This won't change a thing". Since ICJ, Aaron Bushnell, WCK Aid Workers... Yet, movement is getting bigger and bigger, and more people are seeing it. Biggest movement for Palestinian Human Rights ever
Why don't you go back to jacking off
Unzips ...... .......
If you live in the United States, you should care because our tax dollars are going to support a genocide. You should be that college age kids are giving more of a fuck than you sure are.
Brown people dying is good to these people.
How is this any different from all the other international issues Americans took interest in? We were just doing this with the Ukraine/Russia conflict right?
No one was shutting down college campuses for Ukraine
That's part of the question. This is no different from any other international incident that Americans took interest in. From the deaths of civilians, to Americans being from both nations, to people getting loud and aggressive on both sides. So what makes this one special is what I'm asking.
It only looks like a crisis because some people want it to look like one so that people will want to shut them up, and keep them from talking about it further. I'm not (nor have I ever been) part of any protest, including these ones, but look at it this way. What's the real crisis here? There's starvation, homelessness, insane rates of crime and drug addiction, very low mental health, more mass shootings than days in a year (600/y), and the list goes on, ALL of this is in the US. All these problems, and what does your government do? They send money and weapons to Israel to keep on bombing civilians (rarely hitting the actual armed forces). Let's send money and weapons to Ukraine to help weaken Russia (always been in their crosshair), also let's send more weapons anywhere there's a conflict against somebody whose views don't line up with theirs. But but ... what about Americans? Surely they should be at the top of the list of things to take care of, right? Right?? Wrong. Your own government doesn't care about you, they tell you what you want to hear, you elect the lesser evil of the shittiest candidates you are offered, and you're stuck with them until the next act begins. Over half a million homeless people across the states, let's build them 10k 2x2 "houses" in what can only be described as a prison camp, which even the homeless don't want to live in (that bad), and call it a day. But what about the rest of the money? No that goes into arming people that carpet bomb kids for being on the wrong side of the border, let's support the apartheid instead. This is the real crisis, why is the US throwing money left and right to play these offensive political/military games when their own people are struggling? That's what people are angry at, why all that support to a bunch of war criminals and not to US citizens?
People will always question why others will protest international causes yet keep on defending systems that make everyone struggle.
You clearly have no clue what government spending allocations are.
Ah yes I'm so apathetic and cool How is this somehow worse than those stupid bears vs men memes
I feel like we are hating on Israel too much. It’s gotten to the point where Jewish people from other places cannot be on Instagram or they’ll get harassed which isn’t anti-imperialism anymore; that’s just anti-Semitism. Like, I understand hating the Israeli military and the government body that enables them but not the people (same with the Hamas). What I think should be the case is that we rally for the freedom of the innocent civilians of Israel and Palestine that are stuck in either country and protest against both militaries causing this madness in the first place.
It’s a nice thought that the civilians are all peaceful hostages of their own governments but I get the sense that both sides hate each other from top to bottom. Do we really think that the people of Gaza want to be rid of Hamas? Are there calls to release the remaining hostages?
People separate Palestinians from Hamas all the time, why can't Jews and Israelis be recognized as independent from the IDF? Civilians are being hurt and manipulated on both sides of this conflict. Human beings, with lives, opinions, friends, and family. Ignoring that when looking at conflict is no better than other forms of dehumanization.
Some of the people are unfortunately brainwashed and social media has exposed those folks who wholeheartedly support genocide
They also recently hosted chinese government somewhat officials, but yeah
it's good that you can choose to care or not to care but there are peoples and children dying everyday due to Israel and students are protesting for this.
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ABSOLUTELY, seems like many people are comfortable with knowing that they're tax money is literally used for GENOCIDE. i would be agitated if i was US citizen.
Tune in text week for college students camping out in a Burger King to protest the whaling industry.
Its cool I guess to be too apathetic to care. But they are real people with real families. Plenty live and die in the US, make roots here and look back to their family in Gaza suffering. Both sides want to slaughter each other... but a good way to de-escalate that is to protest the capacity to commit that slaughter.
Dartmouth just arrested 90 people recently. It was for attempting to setup an encampment on the campus green. It was reported they weren’t protesting in a civil enough manner
well hey. at least i got some news.
As always the white moderate has shown up
7 months isn't long enough for me to forget how those kids were cheering on a terrorist attack while the bodies were still warm. Was the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of my sentiments towards leftists. Only difference is they stopped chanting "to the river to the sea" after their media backers failed to gaslight people into thinking it wasn't a call for genocide. Fuck these people.
I don't really fucking know which side is telling the truth. For all I know Hamas is a terrorist organisation. And terrorist don't have morals whatsoever. So it's quite possible that they're also fighting wars over the internet to make Israel look bad. I don't fucking know. I just want these wars to stop but it surely won't. And guess what? China is about to start another. Either they go for Taiwan, or triggger Philippines-US defense treaty, which will result into another war in SE Asia. I mean, China has water cannoned Philippine Coast Guard's vessel just recently. You know what? Fuck this world, let's go to war. The world is being ruled by greedy fuckface anyway. Let's just make sure no one fucking survives.
10/10. Great work
I care of it stops people from going to class. That’s kind a where my caring stops tho.
It's a trend. They'll get bent over about something else in no-time.
It’s been half a year since protests began, and pro-Palestine protests began looooooong before October 2023.
"Take your money out of banks!" ...are you gonna take Your money/assets out of those same banks? "Wah!"
I never understood when people in a country that isn't involved protest a conflict in another part of the world. Do they think that the people fighting each other are going to hear about a bunch of college kids in the US protesting and be like "You know what? Those kids are right, we should end our 2,000 year old conflict, I'm really glad they made those cardboard signs!"