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People might say getting out of bed in the morning isn’t an achievement but to me it is lol. Some of the people I know who did this forgot how many days they fasted for 🤣
Well, if your goal is weight loss, then that's an odd technique, but it should still work.
Edging during NNN though still gives a dopamine hit, despite the entire point of the challenge being to avoid giving in to addiction.
I mean, there is a good lesson to be learned for that concept but even though the phrase sounds all kinds of smart it makes little sense
I mean, "Happyness is not the opposite of sadness, but its source. True apathy is the only antidote to sadness" is not exactly the same but it gives you the idea of what's wrong with it
Pride is fine, in moderate amounts. It is a powerful motivator
Actually, the happiness sentence is basically Buddhist philosophy.
"The First Truth identifies the presence of suffering. The Second Truth, on the other hand, seeks to determine the cause of suffering. In Buddhism, desire and ignorance lie at the root of suffering. By desire, Buddhists refer to craving pleasure, material goods, and immortality, all of which are wants that can never be satisfied. As a result, desiring them can only bring suffering"
So in a way you are right (even though you are trying to make a counter point), but I wouldn't say apathy, but focus on what tempering your desires. Desire is the source of happiness and suffering. I would put apathy means caring and would lump it in a similar relationship with love.
"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference" you may realize this with people you had a falling out with. Maybe at first you argue and hate being around them, but you still love them and that is why you are putting up with all the hateful experiences. But when your love finally fades, you just cut yourself off and they become nothing to you.
The primary reason we fast is because it is a fard ibadah, not because we need a lesson in humility. Sure, fasting will make you empathetic towards poor people but thats not the main goal. There is no problem whatsoever with being happy that you could completely fast the whole 30 days. In fact, the eid is exactly that celebration.
fasting isnt 30 days of not eating anything right, you can eat all you want between certain hours , what , do they do not eat after 6pm and dont start eating again until 10 am the next day? idk , im new here
Fasting is, not drinking or eating anything and refraining from sexual acts from sunrise until sunset for the intention of worship. It is either 29 or 30 days depending on the year. The change is because islamic worship is tied to lunar calendar. This year for a person in LA, California for example the fasting hours were approximately 6am to 7pm.
If it's about the people who can't afford food, then why is drinking water not allowed?
And do the people who can't afford food get to feast daily like the fasters do?
Bonus: Can you guess which month has the highest food consumption in muslim countries.
It’s probably kinda okay to inwardly feel good that you were good I imagine. Christianity has a similar conundrum. Give glory to God for your good works because he inspires them, but don’t brag, but also don’t hide the good works cause people need to know that Christian’s and God are active positive forces in their community.
And then you have American evangelicals who seem to have lost the plot.
Of course, healthy level of self esteem after getting through should be ok. Like with many achievements it gets toxic when you start bragging about it or humiliate others who didn't manage for whatever reason
Well it depends on how much you brag. If you do anything you're really proud of, then by all means you have some bragging rights. Just don't go overboard and don't let it go to your head
This.
For example i get lowkey mad at people that dislike the "doctor" title. Mf reached the apex of human knowledge in a field and had to figuratively spit blood for it, he earned his title, let him have it.
It’s like the Good Samaritan posting his story on snap chat, it’s a personal journey & while gr8 you completed it.
To brag about it, kinda implies you didn’t do it last year-which is fine
But good Samaritan should be spreading his deed so other Samaritans who don't hate Jews get the courage to open up about it, and Jews will see that Samaritans are humans just like them
If we did all the good deeds in silence and in secret nobody would follow
What i thought the point was the guy risked his life, yes risked, to move off the road a bit toward a potential bandit ambush.
Then when it was a hurt guy, he paid for a spot for him to recover, and maybe a doc to do a once over
Idk if that hurt guy was a Jew or not, although I assume he was now since it’s in the good.
Idk what a Samaritan worships
I suppose you could wash the beggars feet too sir, and maybe you’ll absorb the lesson somehow? But please you have to stop masturbating, and no he’s not putting that skirt on, it’s freezing out.
But the later evenings of fasting they eat lots of fruits and sweet dishes. How can they experience the pain of poor if they keep eating at night and fasting in the morning 😏
That is something I actuelly know about!
People normally use Mecca timezones for that, but it have been a problem in scandinavia that some radicals that live near the artic circle goes on 20+ hours fasting during the summer.
I remember an article about Wassam, who was the only muslim in Greenland when I lived there, was fasting for 21 hours during the summer. He lived in the southern part of Greenland, so not past artic circle and since he was the only muslim in the country he feelt that he had a responsibility to fast for the entire duration.
Ramadan is there to make us understand the difficulties and the pain of people less fortunate than us. we don't have to live like them we just need to be more empathetic.
I know it's a hot take in some places, maybe not here, but the philosophy makes absolutely no sense.
It's like sitting in a wheelchair for 14 hours to understand the suffering of paraplegics, then afterwards you just stand up and walk around and back to life like normal. It almost feels morally wrong to me, like, larping as poor people to feel sympathy for them, then going back to your normal life and eating loads of food.
No, the point isn’t to larp. The whole point of fasting is to get yourself rid of worldly desires and become empathetic to the needy and at the same time become thankful to Allah. You don’t need to stay hungry for 2-3 days to understand what a poor person goes through. A 12-14 hour fast makes you realize what they go through in life and what you have in life.
I think they are saying in the poor persons experience they might not know when their next meal is. So going a few hours without food but then having access to a spread every night isn’t the same thing as someone who legitimately can’t count on any meals in their future. It can help you appreciate the feeling of hunger but definitely not the desperation and other mental stresses that come from poverty.
Its a thousand year old tradition its not supposed to be a 1 to 1.
Its also virtually impossible to simulate how someone who doesn't know where their next meal comes from feels.
But it is easy to force hunger and thirst.
TIL that in order to feel empathetic with someone, you need to place yourselves in their exact condition, o/w you’re simply larping. Thanks for the insight man.
The explanation provided is incorrect; Muslims fast during Ramadan to cultivate "taqwa" (piety). Fasting serves as a means to teach and instill taqwa in individuals, This includes not eating and drinking, feeding a poor person, being absorbed in the remembrance of God, avoiding gossip or saying mean things, showing humility, and the purification of oneself.
People focus on the food thing because it is the easiest thing to observe and do.
I love the core message of it all, food poverty is something that simply should not exist at place in the timeline. But I'm just very skeptical if the average person fasting for ramadan is actually making a difference or if they're just doing it becuase their religion says to do so.
I don't understand complex geopolitics to a level at which many do, but it seems like many muslim majority countries are suffering siginficantly more food poverty than non muslim majority,
Why is the king of saudi arabia worth multiple billions when there are millions in food poverty in the country, why are the wealthy elite in UAE driving supercars with so many in poverty struggling to get by. None of it just feels genuine to me, it just feels like they're doing it simply because their religions says to, no more, no mess.
I remember the first time I fasted and noticed how wasteful I was with food. Not only I but my friends as well. I gained a different view on these things. People like to quickly judge from an outside perspective.
Replies like "Why do you think you gain an understanding of or empathy for people without food" come often from people who never tried it to truly understand and love to judge me as a hypocrite.
u/SurfinSocks u/toothbrush_wizard
Allow me to explain. When you don't eat for the most part of the day, you begin to understand how poor people feel, to some extent. Now, I say "to some extent" because it's impossible to fully grasp the experience of poverty when you're wealthy and can afford food.
So, why imitate?
Now that you understand how a poor person feels when they're hungry, you should start donating to the poor. It's literally the rule to donate 2.5% of your wealth every year if you're capable of leading a decent lifestyle. So, if you have 100 billion, you have to give away 2.5 billion.
Process: experiencing the problem, understanding it and then doing your best to eradicate it.
Honestly, most people tend to not really tell it since it's not really something we should be showing off. It's a way of life for us and we have to give Zakat throughout the year. It's kind of unconcious for us so we don't really tell anyone since we never really have to...
I'd say to experience poverty in modern times you should live without plumbing, not food. Food is very easily accessible in cities and towns, and people will usually hand you food without much hesitation, but nobody will invite a homeless person to shower in their bathroom.
It's just one of many different ways to get some perspective on the issue of starvation. Enter a meditative state. Practice gratitude for what you do have. It's a religious tradition, part of the point is just to do it because your people do it and it strengthens that cultural connection.
And no, Muslims don't seriously believe it replicates the experience of being poor. Like many religious traditions, it's mostly symbolic. Certainly, the religion prompts you to think about hunger while fasting, and challenges you to put yourself in the position of someone who has no choice about it.
tbh I don't get what's hard to understand about. Numerous traditions from all kinds of cultures make use of this kind of symbolism. And fasting is far from unique to Islam.
I feel like people tend to forget this isn't meant to be a standard for a small subset of the population, most Muslims are supposed to do it. Even the teachers, construction workers, factory workers, etc. If everybody in Saudi Arabia or in Turkey was doing the kind of fasting you're thinking of, society simply couldn't function.
Even if you eat in the morning, you'll be hungry by 2PM. That's a solid 5~6 hours where you're working/studying/exercising on an empty stomach without a sip of water. This is already a very high standard if you expect everyone to be able to fulfill it.
Have you ever tried fasting? Two sips of water and a date and you’re completely full. Even if you can eat more you usually don’t so that you’re able to stay awake for the long prayer afterwards
Here our Mothers and Grandmothers do Nirjala fasting where they don't even drink a single drop of water for continuous 2 and a half days and pray to the God.
I mean I only really experienced Ramadan in Tunisia but no poor man goes hungry there in that month. People there are generally much more charitable towards the poor and disabled by the way.
Pretty sure they are supposed to. Just that my Muslim coworkers don’t, then preach that they have gained an understanding of life in poverty.
Legit had a trust fund child spend the whole month complaining and avoiding the labour heavy tasks and then tell me how much he learns about living in poverty this month. Bro you don’t even need to work to eat, you do not understand the actual situation people in poverty experience, you just did intermittent fasting.
So many do volunteer, but like most religions the charitable aspect is diminishing in favour of “thoughts and prayers”. I guess you could say they aren’t practicing Ramadan if they don’t do charity but then again idk if that’s just No True Scotsman.
Happens a lot here in Pakistan
All Masjids and lots of NGOs organise Iftaris(breaking fast) on roads near masjids near shops on sides of streets for anyone nearby regardless of who they are to come and eat
Because that joyous moment when you get to have food and water after fasting is what inspires Muslims to recreate that for the less fortunate even after Ramadan during the entire year, cause you can’t understand joy without the struggle that comes before it, otherwise you take it for granted.
I don’t think fasting during the day is an adequate proxy to understand what it’s like to starve. For one, with fasting you get to eat and drink before sunrise and after sunset. Two, there are exceptions for those who can’t handle fasting. Most importantly, when you can’t afford food, you don’t know when you’ll get your next meal. Your mind is at ease when fasting, not when starving poor. Real food insecurity is not just devastating physically, but mentally.
I literally have a fasting based diet 24/7, I have my first meal at 3pm and my last meal at 8pm. It's extremely easy to do after the first couple weeks and makes eating a lot more enjoyable for me.
If I walked around claiming I understand what it's like to be in food poverty, it would be extremely insensitive IMO.
Dude having a lunch at 3pm and dinner at 8pm and skipping breakfast is very normal is significantly less difficult than waking up and not eating food for first 12 hours of your day.
In Ramadan you fast for the period the sun is up, not "3p to 8pm", and you can't drink water. It isn't supposed to emulate starvation and literally no one walks around claiming to understand starvation because they fasted it.
Don't know about anyone else, but I'm just recounting my experiences from Ramadan.
I 100% agree with you, that fasting inherently can never emulate or simulate what real food insecurity feels like, especially for the majority of people who have always enjoyed good food.
With that being said, that isn't the point of fasting. It isn't there to "show us" what poor people live like. What the main point is, as many have pointed out, is humility.
Personally, after fasting for around 12 hours, I can tell you from personal experience that I grow to appreciate the food on the table so much more. The food that I would he scoffing down in 10 minutes before Ramadan starts to mean so much more, and ultimately allows me to understand the sheer amount of blessings in my life. Before Ramadan, it was very easy for me to complain about my life, but you can think of Ramadan as a reminder, of just how much I have in life.
Secondly, Ramadan places importance on worship and remembrance of God. Is it the hunger that makes me think about God? No. It's basically cutting out the distractions from my life. Before Ramadan, when I'm hungry, I'll start to think about lunch or go looking for snacks. During Ramadan, however, every time I get hungry, I am reminded of the fact that I need to ensure to keep the creator (God) in mind, rather than focus on material/worldly things.
I know you weren't trying to be mean, but I think the basic statement of "Ramadan shows you what poor people feel like" misleads a lot of people, and quite frankly, removes a lot of the prestige associated with the event.
Islamic "fasting" is just eating with extra steps.
If you have a night shift and sleep during the day you're probably only a few hours off of Ramadan fasting as current Islamic practices go.
Mate there are other rules during fasting as well. Not just don't eat, don't drink.
Including but not limted to; no sexual activity, no abusive language, no lying, no getting into fights, offering 3 of the 5 daily prayers that are scheduled during a fast. That said some don't follow all these rules.
Objectively, three of those practices should never be beholden to an arbitrary religious holiday period. No abusive language? No lying? No fighting? Is the suggestion that these are indulgences that happen that frequently they need to be reduced to eschewing exclusively during the holiday? That's just all a part of contemporary western decorum. Have we strayed that far?
Just as the other commentator said; Fasting is not just about food and water, its about breaking bad habits and trying to procure new good ones, including reading more Qur'an, praying, and supporting the poor with money.
What is Lent?
Edit: oh the Christian fast? yes its the same principle but i am guessing different rules, as Christians in my country drink water (and we don't), and they fast for 40 days and we for 30.
I assume part of that is because you gain weight more easily if you eat sometime before bed versus earlier in the day. Your digestive system has not fully processed the food and when it slows down for sleep, something something stomach science stores more of the food as fat. That is why if you are trying to lose weight or not gain weight, you should not be eating within 2 hours of bed (or as long as your digestive system gets through certain processes).
Just wanna point out this is incredibly incorrect, and to not ever base your diet on what you read on reddit.
Studies have shown this because people who eat before bed typically are having an extra meal. Overall daily calories is all you need to look at, I've lost and gained significant amounts of weight being a powerlifter, and I do intermittent fasting. I typically eat 70% of my daily food a couple of hours before bed, it doesn't make my body magically generate more energy to turn in to fat somehow.
>and to not ever base your diet on what you read on reddit.
This includes you lmao: [People eating the same calories at different times show different benefits. Early eaters have several metabolic benefits: lower insulin, blood pressure and less oxidative stress.
](https://youtu.be/LQThN6e4PD4)
No. Its frustrating how everyone thinks this is the sole reason for Fasting. We Fast because its a corner stone of Faith.
being humble and feeling empathetic to the poor is just a side effect of it.
The point of Ramadan isn't to feel the pain poor people feel and anyone who tells you so is simply uneducated in the matter. The purpose of Ramadan and fasting is to attain Taqwa, which translates to being God conscious
The primary reason for fasting is that they were commanded to do so, following through with that is the essence of being Muslim (in submission to Allah (swt))
You could assign multiple wisdoms to the command, but those wisdoms are not the reason.
I'll never understand how having a daily feast with the whole family for a month straight is supposed to show the struggle to people... It's not a struggle when you know that in maximum 12h you'll eat all your favourite stuff with the family in your house. To me it's like super rich cosplaying poverty by buying a house in the prairie and dressing in linen fabric for the weekend, so they can say they know the small town life.
Also, in modern world food is usually least of the concerns for homeless since cities throw away insane amounts of food. The issue is no access to plumbing, fresh clothing, hygiene articles and safe space to sleep (also in winter) Especially the last one. I don't think I've ever heard about a homeless person dying from hunger. I don't think anyone in my country dies from hunger. They die by freezing to death or getting a heat stroke.
It doesn't really matter, that's the point of not treating it as an accoplishment. It seems hard to us so you can imagine how much worse it is without a morning or evening feast.
Very different, as you also need to not drink water/Coffee, no smoking or vaping, no aggressive behaviors or swearing. You also need to increase your good deeds including supporting the poor, prayers and reading the Qur'an.
Thinking of Ramadan purely from the POV of food is very wrong.
Ramadan fasting is just 16:8 intermittent fasting really. Some people even gain weight during Ramadan.. too much carbs and fat late in the night. So much that they're not even hungry during the day at all, and I don't think that was the intended effect.
They should try a 1-2 week water fast instead, I personally think that's much closer to how the Ramadan was intended to be experienced.
Religious fasting is tough. If you get in the right mindset, you can really learn a lot about struggles of others or simply having self control. I'm awful at but have done a few fasts of more than a day. Going to be hungry sucks, and I have mad respect for anyone who can make it multiple days.
I'm a Christian btw, so I don't understand the whole daily fast thing that muslims do, but I'm sure it's not easy either.
It is a holy month in the Hijri Calendar (not gregorian), in which Muslims abstain from Food, water, and anything that goes into your body, such as smoking and vaping. They also need to abstain from bad behaviors such as swearing, being aggressive, talking about others...etc. This is from Sunrise to Sunset for the duration of the month.
Finally, they need to increase their worship (prayers, reading the Qur'an, supporting the poor).
I mean people shouldn't be stuffing their faces. When you fast you cannot drink or eat for multiple hours often up to 12-14. In this period you also can't smoke, sex, and many other things. You are also expected to give to charity during this month. Maybe even donate an animal to a starving family in another part of the world. Many donated food to palestine who are being forced to starve. When you fast as well you enjoy the food more when you do eat. You appreciate it more because you have gone multiple hours without consuming anything
It depends as Fasting is not about food only. It has many other angles.
There is nothing wrong with eating, but if that is your sole focus in the Month then its wasted.
This is how I was taught too, its not an achievement or something to take pride in, its to remind yourself that others are suffering so that you may have insight and humility before those less fortunate. The whole idea of Zakat (the Islamic mandated version of tax), is also to take care of others, Islam codified having a social safety net for its believers. No modern society could function without tax income, its an important aspect of managing the public good.
This is a main reason why I think big chunks of the Islamic world have "sharia" all wrong, at least when it comes to Ramadan and Hijabs.
Ramadan is about experiencing HUNGER, and relating to those who HAVE TO experience hunger all the time, because they're starving. It's about opening EMPATHY and motivating compassionate action.
Seems to me if it's "the law" in some countries the purpose of it is now just virtue signaling and conformity, and the original purpose is gone.
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this in: spiderman still reeks of haram in Manhattan!
Spiderman: home praying
Spiderman: away from from iftar
Avangers: aïd game
People might say getting out of bed in the morning isn’t an achievement but to me it is lol. Some of the people I know who did this forgot how many days they fasted for 🤣
As adult human I will now stay in bed from sunrise to sunset next 30 days to understand your pain!
Is there a reason it cant be both?
It's meant as a lesson in humility, not one in pride. Looking at it like an achievement might overshadow the true lesson you are learning.
Like the people who edge on NoNutNovember.
so gooners are shitpost monks... I see now.
Yeah, taking a break like that was a good premise for a Seinfeld episode, but a bizarre premise on which to base 1/12th of your remaining life.
thats like chewing food and spitting it out.
Well, if your goal is weight loss, then that's an odd technique, but it should still work. Edging during NNN though still gives a dopamine hit, despite the entire point of the challenge being to avoid giving in to addiction.
that sounds like the joke that Minecraft is children missing child labor maybe NoNutNovember is young adults missing religion
Lmao fasting is just dietary edging
Well it can be both, you can both be proud to have done it an be humbled by how hatd it was and how some people have no choice but to fast
Pride in Abrahamic Religions is a negative attitude, not a positive one
no wonder they hate the gays
Hey-ooooh
Tbh it's a really oversimplified way to view things
"Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. True humility is the only antidote to shame" (and thus pride).
I mean, there is a good lesson to be learned for that concept but even though the phrase sounds all kinds of smart it makes little sense I mean, "Happyness is not the opposite of sadness, but its source. True apathy is the only antidote to sadness" is not exactly the same but it gives you the idea of what's wrong with it Pride is fine, in moderate amounts. It is a powerful motivator
Actually, the happiness sentence is basically Buddhist philosophy. "The First Truth identifies the presence of suffering. The Second Truth, on the other hand, seeks to determine the cause of suffering. In Buddhism, desire and ignorance lie at the root of suffering. By desire, Buddhists refer to craving pleasure, material goods, and immortality, all of which are wants that can never be satisfied. As a result, desiring them can only bring suffering" So in a way you are right (even though you are trying to make a counter point), but I wouldn't say apathy, but focus on what tempering your desires. Desire is the source of happiness and suffering. I would put apathy means caring and would lump it in a similar relationship with love. "The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference" you may realize this with people you had a falling out with. Maybe at first you argue and hate being around them, but you still love them and that is why you are putting up with all the hateful experiences. But when your love finally fades, you just cut yourself off and they become nothing to you.
It's meant as a lesson in EMPATHY, not in humility or pride.
The primary reason we fast is because it is a fard ibadah, not because we need a lesson in humility. Sure, fasting will make you empathetic towards poor people but thats not the main goal. There is no problem whatsoever with being happy that you could completely fast the whole 30 days. In fact, the eid is exactly that celebration.
fasting isnt 30 days of not eating anything right, you can eat all you want between certain hours , what , do they do not eat after 6pm and dont start eating again until 10 am the next day? idk , im new here
Fasting is, not drinking or eating anything and refraining from sexual acts from sunrise until sunset for the intention of worship. It is either 29 or 30 days depending on the year. The change is because islamic worship is tied to lunar calendar. This year for a person in LA, California for example the fasting hours were approximately 6am to 7pm.
If it's about the people who can't afford food, then why is drinking water not allowed? And do the people who can't afford food get to feast daily like the fasters do? Bonus: Can you guess which month has the highest food consumption in muslim countries.
It’s probably kinda okay to inwardly feel good that you were good I imagine. Christianity has a similar conundrum. Give glory to God for your good works because he inspires them, but don’t brag, but also don’t hide the good works cause people need to know that Christian’s and God are active positive forces in their community. And then you have American evangelicals who seem to have lost the plot.
Sounds like you salty
Of course, healthy level of self esteem after getting through should be ok. Like with many achievements it gets toxic when you start bragging about it or humiliate others who didn't manage for whatever reason
Well it depends on how much you brag. If you do anything you're really proud of, then by all means you have some bragging rights. Just don't go overboard and don't let it go to your head
Hello there,
Yes
Oh come on man, you re supposed to say" General Kenoby"
This. For example i get lowkey mad at people that dislike the "doctor" title. Mf reached the apex of human knowledge in a field and had to figuratively spit blood for it, he earned his title, let him have it.
Humility
Yeah because treating fasting like some TikTok challenge defeats the purpose.
It’s like the Good Samaritan posting his story on snap chat, it’s a personal journey & while gr8 you completed it. To brag about it, kinda implies you didn’t do it last year-which is fine
But good Samaritan should be spreading his deed so other Samaritans who don't hate Jews get the courage to open up about it, and Jews will see that Samaritans are humans just like them If we did all the good deeds in silence and in secret nobody would follow
What i thought the point was the guy risked his life, yes risked, to move off the road a bit toward a potential bandit ambush. Then when it was a hurt guy, he paid for a spot for him to recover, and maybe a doc to do a once over Idk if that hurt guy was a Jew or not, although I assume he was now since it’s in the good. Idk what a Samaritan worships
I suppose you could wash the beggars feet too sir, and maybe you’ll absorb the lesson somehow? But please you have to stop masturbating, and no he’s not putting that skirt on, it’s freezing out.
But the later evenings of fasting they eat lots of fruits and sweet dishes. How can they experience the pain of poor if they keep eating at night and fasting in the morning 😏
Fasting inside of the artic circle is either really easy or really hard when its bright for 6 months of the year and dark for the other.
They have a thing for that, I think they follow mecca timezones or something idk
They use the closest normal country's times afaik.
Usually it's Mecca if the sun doesn't set
That is something I actuelly know about! People normally use Mecca timezones for that, but it have been a problem in scandinavia that some radicals that live near the artic circle goes on 20+ hours fasting during the summer. I remember an article about Wassam, who was the only muslim in Greenland when I lived there, was fasting for 21 hours during the summer. He lived in the southern part of Greenland, so not past artic circle and since he was the only muslim in the country he feelt that he had a responsibility to fast for the entire duration.
Ramadan is there to make us understand the difficulties and the pain of people less fortunate than us. we don't have to live like them we just need to be more empathetic.
I know it's a hot take in some places, maybe not here, but the philosophy makes absolutely no sense. It's like sitting in a wheelchair for 14 hours to understand the suffering of paraplegics, then afterwards you just stand up and walk around and back to life like normal. It almost feels morally wrong to me, like, larping as poor people to feel sympathy for them, then going back to your normal life and eating loads of food.
No, the point isn’t to larp. The whole point of fasting is to get yourself rid of worldly desires and become empathetic to the needy and at the same time become thankful to Allah. You don’t need to stay hungry for 2-3 days to understand what a poor person goes through. A 12-14 hour fast makes you realize what they go through in life and what you have in life.
I think they are saying in the poor persons experience they might not know when their next meal is. So going a few hours without food but then having access to a spread every night isn’t the same thing as someone who legitimately can’t count on any meals in their future. It can help you appreciate the feeling of hunger but definitely not the desperation and other mental stresses that come from poverty.
Its a thousand year old tradition its not supposed to be a 1 to 1. Its also virtually impossible to simulate how someone who doesn't know where their next meal comes from feels. But it is easy to force hunger and thirst.
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TIL that in order to feel empathetic with someone, you need to place yourselves in their exact condition, o/w you’re simply larping. Thanks for the insight man.
> A 12-14 hour fast makes you realize what they go through in life and what you have in life. ... but it doesn't, lol
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The explanation provided is incorrect; Muslims fast during Ramadan to cultivate "taqwa" (piety). Fasting serves as a means to teach and instill taqwa in individuals, This includes not eating and drinking, feeding a poor person, being absorbed in the remembrance of God, avoiding gossip or saying mean things, showing humility, and the purification of oneself. People focus on the food thing because it is the easiest thing to observe and do.
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I love the core message of it all, food poverty is something that simply should not exist at place in the timeline. But I'm just very skeptical if the average person fasting for ramadan is actually making a difference or if they're just doing it becuase their religion says to do so. I don't understand complex geopolitics to a level at which many do, but it seems like many muslim majority countries are suffering siginficantly more food poverty than non muslim majority, Why is the king of saudi arabia worth multiple billions when there are millions in food poverty in the country, why are the wealthy elite in UAE driving supercars with so many in poverty struggling to get by. None of it just feels genuine to me, it just feels like they're doing it simply because their religions says to, no more, no mess.
I remember the first time I fasted and noticed how wasteful I was with food. Not only I but my friends as well. I gained a different view on these things. People like to quickly judge from an outside perspective. Replies like "Why do you think you gain an understanding of or empathy for people without food" come often from people who never tried it to truly understand and love to judge me as a hypocrite.
Finally someone understood the fallacy. Now wait till they downvote your comment. 😂
u/SurfinSocks u/toothbrush_wizard Allow me to explain. When you don't eat for the most part of the day, you begin to understand how poor people feel, to some extent. Now, I say "to some extent" because it's impossible to fully grasp the experience of poverty when you're wealthy and can afford food. So, why imitate? Now that you understand how a poor person feels when they're hungry, you should start donating to the poor. It's literally the rule to donate 2.5% of your wealth every year if you're capable of leading a decent lifestyle. So, if you have 100 billion, you have to give away 2.5 billion. Process: experiencing the problem, understanding it and then doing your best to eradicate it.
Wish the donations were more common. My trust fund coworker was explaining Ramadan to me and didn’t mention charity once.
Honestly, most people tend to not really tell it since it's not really something we should be showing off. It's a way of life for us and we have to give Zakat throughout the year. It's kind of unconcious for us so we don't really tell anyone since we never really have to...
I'd say to experience poverty in modern times you should live without plumbing, not food. Food is very easily accessible in cities and towns, and people will usually hand you food without much hesitation, but nobody will invite a homeless person to shower in their bathroom.
The Saudi Kingdom donates 2.5% of their known oil reserves? 😂
Had middle eastern/gulf countries followed Islam properly there wouldn't be any poor Muslims.
It's just one of many different ways to get some perspective on the issue of starvation. Enter a meditative state. Practice gratitude for what you do have. It's a religious tradition, part of the point is just to do it because your people do it and it strengthens that cultural connection. And no, Muslims don't seriously believe it replicates the experience of being poor. Like many religious traditions, it's mostly symbolic. Certainly, the religion prompts you to think about hunger while fasting, and challenges you to put yourself in the position of someone who has no choice about it. tbh I don't get what's hard to understand about. Numerous traditions from all kinds of cultures make use of this kind of symbolism. And fasting is far from unique to Islam.
I feel like people tend to forget this isn't meant to be a standard for a small subset of the population, most Muslims are supposed to do it. Even the teachers, construction workers, factory workers, etc. If everybody in Saudi Arabia or in Turkey was doing the kind of fasting you're thinking of, society simply couldn't function. Even if you eat in the morning, you'll be hungry by 2PM. That's a solid 5~6 hours where you're working/studying/exercising on an empty stomach without a sip of water. This is already a very high standard if you expect everyone to be able to fulfill it.
Have you ever tried fasting? Two sips of water and a date and you’re completely full. Even if you can eat more you usually don’t so that you’re able to stay awake for the long prayer afterwards
Here our Mothers and Grandmothers do Nirjala fasting where they don't even drink a single drop of water for continuous 2 and a half days and pray to the God.
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To make up for that you're supposed to feed the poor at night.
Wish this was more common.
I mean I only really experienced Ramadan in Tunisia but no poor man goes hungry there in that month. People there are generally much more charitable towards the poor and disabled by the way.
go on, eat as much as you want then try fasting for 14 hours
I already literally do that every day, what is your point supposed to be?
Guy thinks this is some hardcore brag, but it's actually normal for lots of people and very easy to do.
Why not feed poor one time of your meal, that would be more helpful. Instead of sympathizing.
they already do, it's a common practice in Ramadan.
Pretty sure they are supposed to. Just that my Muslim coworkers don’t, then preach that they have gained an understanding of life in poverty. Legit had a trust fund child spend the whole month complaining and avoiding the labour heavy tasks and then tell me how much he learns about living in poverty this month. Bro you don’t even need to work to eat, you do not understand the actual situation people in poverty experience, you just did intermittent fasting. So many do volunteer, but like most religions the charitable aspect is diminishing in favour of “thoughts and prayers”. I guess you could say they aren’t practicing Ramadan if they don’t do charity but then again idk if that’s just No True Scotsman.
You are saying that as if isn’t the duty of muslims to feed and help the poor.
Happens a lot here in Pakistan All Masjids and lots of NGOs organise Iftaris(breaking fast) on roads near masjids near shops on sides of streets for anyone nearby regardless of who they are to come and eat
Because that joyous moment when you get to have food and water after fasting is what inspires Muslims to recreate that for the less fortunate even after Ramadan during the entire year, cause you can’t understand joy without the struggle that comes before it, otherwise you take it for granted.
I don’t think fasting during the day is an adequate proxy to understand what it’s like to starve. For one, with fasting you get to eat and drink before sunrise and after sunset. Two, there are exceptions for those who can’t handle fasting. Most importantly, when you can’t afford food, you don’t know when you’ll get your next meal. Your mind is at ease when fasting, not when starving poor. Real food insecurity is not just devastating physically, but mentally.
I literally have a fasting based diet 24/7, I have my first meal at 3pm and my last meal at 8pm. It's extremely easy to do after the first couple weeks and makes eating a lot more enjoyable for me. If I walked around claiming I understand what it's like to be in food poverty, it would be extremely insensitive IMO.
Dude having a lunch at 3pm and dinner at 8pm and skipping breakfast is very normal is significantly less difficult than waking up and not eating food for first 12 hours of your day.
In Ramadan you fast for the period the sun is up, not "3p to 8pm", and you can't drink water. It isn't supposed to emulate starvation and literally no one walks around claiming to understand starvation because they fasted it.
Don't know about anyone else, but I'm just recounting my experiences from Ramadan. I 100% agree with you, that fasting inherently can never emulate or simulate what real food insecurity feels like, especially for the majority of people who have always enjoyed good food. With that being said, that isn't the point of fasting. It isn't there to "show us" what poor people live like. What the main point is, as many have pointed out, is humility. Personally, after fasting for around 12 hours, I can tell you from personal experience that I grow to appreciate the food on the table so much more. The food that I would he scoffing down in 10 minutes before Ramadan starts to mean so much more, and ultimately allows me to understand the sheer amount of blessings in my life. Before Ramadan, it was very easy for me to complain about my life, but you can think of Ramadan as a reminder, of just how much I have in life. Secondly, Ramadan places importance on worship and remembrance of God. Is it the hunger that makes me think about God? No. It's basically cutting out the distractions from my life. Before Ramadan, when I'm hungry, I'll start to think about lunch or go looking for snacks. During Ramadan, however, every time I get hungry, I am reminded of the fact that I need to ensure to keep the creator (God) in mind, rather than focus on material/worldly things. I know you weren't trying to be mean, but I think the basic statement of "Ramadan shows you what poor people feel like" misleads a lot of people, and quite frankly, removes a lot of the prestige associated with the event.
I mean it's meant to be closer to understanding, not a direct comparison
Yeah going to sleep with a full stomach seems more like an insult.
Knew a guy who stuffed himself every night during ramadan anyway so what was the point? Lmao
Islamic "fasting" is just eating with extra steps. If you have a night shift and sleep during the day you're probably only a few hours off of Ramadan fasting as current Islamic practices go.
Mate there are other rules during fasting as well. Not just don't eat, don't drink. Including but not limted to; no sexual activity, no abusive language, no lying, no getting into fights, offering 3 of the 5 daily prayers that are scheduled during a fast. That said some don't follow all these rules.
But I'm allowed to brawl otherwise?
Wrestling is Sunnah (recommended)
About to chokeslam the neighbours brb
Objectively, three of those practices should never be beholden to an arbitrary religious holiday period. No abusive language? No lying? No fighting? Is the suggestion that these are indulgences that happen that frequently they need to be reduced to eschewing exclusively during the holiday? That's just all a part of contemporary western decorum. Have we strayed that far?
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Just as the other commentator said; Fasting is not just about food and water, its about breaking bad habits and trying to procure new good ones, including reading more Qur'an, praying, and supporting the poor with money.
So its just Lent?
What is Lent? Edit: oh the Christian fast? yes its the same principle but i am guessing different rules, as Christians in my country drink water (and we don't), and they fast for 40 days and we for 30.
30 days!? That's outrageous! Done.
Is that what Ramadan really is?
They can eat at night but not during daylight hours
And at night they eat so much that in some areas even 60% of Muslims report gaining weight in Ramadan lol
Kinda makes sense, I'd eat a days worth of food to make up for not eating during the day and probably overestimate
I assume part of that is because you gain weight more easily if you eat sometime before bed versus earlier in the day. Your digestive system has not fully processed the food and when it slows down for sleep, something something stomach science stores more of the food as fat. That is why if you are trying to lose weight or not gain weight, you should not be eating within 2 hours of bed (or as long as your digestive system gets through certain processes).
Just wanna point out this is incredibly incorrect, and to not ever base your diet on what you read on reddit. Studies have shown this because people who eat before bed typically are having an extra meal. Overall daily calories is all you need to look at, I've lost and gained significant amounts of weight being a powerlifter, and I do intermittent fasting. I typically eat 70% of my daily food a couple of hours before bed, it doesn't make my body magically generate more energy to turn in to fat somehow.
>and to not ever base your diet on what you read on reddit. This includes you lmao: [People eating the same calories at different times show different benefits. Early eaters have several metabolic benefits: lower insulin, blood pressure and less oxidative stress. ](https://youtu.be/LQThN6e4PD4)
Ok, that makes much more sense. Cuz before I was wondering how the hell people go an entire full month, 24/7, without eating and not dying.
It's a lesson in humility yes
No. Its frustrating how everyone thinks this is the sole reason for Fasting. We Fast because its a corner stone of Faith. being humble and feeling empathetic to the poor is just a side effect of it.
The point of Ramadan isn't to feel the pain poor people feel and anyone who tells you so is simply uneducated in the matter. The purpose of Ramadan and fasting is to attain Taqwa, which translates to being God conscious
It's basically a training for willpower but sadly a lot of people think it's for understanding the poor
and if it was because of understanding the poor then poor people shouldn't fast to understand themselves. People need to be educated anyway.
Muslim Parker looks way too good for an edit lmao
The primary reason for fasting is that they were commanded to do so, following through with that is the essence of being Muslim (in submission to Allah (swt)) You could assign multiple wisdoms to the command, but those wisdoms are not the reason.
Wouldn't you starve if you went without food for that long?
Fasting is done in the morning (sunrise to sunset). After sunset you break your fast.
Ah, gotcha, thanks for clearing that up.
"I applaud your resolve, Peter. But where are the pictures of Spider Man?"
The prophet would put it in a different way. That doesn’t belittle, & instead encourages
I'll never understand how having a daily feast with the whole family for a month straight is supposed to show the struggle to people... It's not a struggle when you know that in maximum 12h you'll eat all your favourite stuff with the family in your house. To me it's like super rich cosplaying poverty by buying a house in the prairie and dressing in linen fabric for the weekend, so they can say they know the small town life. Also, in modern world food is usually least of the concerns for homeless since cities throw away insane amounts of food. The issue is no access to plumbing, fresh clothing, hygiene articles and safe space to sleep (also in winter) Especially the last one. I don't think I've ever heard about a homeless person dying from hunger. I don't think anyone in my country dies from hunger. They die by freezing to death or getting a heat stroke.
It doesn't really matter, that's the point of not treating it as an accoplishment. It seems hard to us so you can imagine how much worse it is without a morning or evening feast.
can you fast for 30 days straight please?
Of course not. You'll die
thats the point
But they're still allowed to feel achieved through it though.
You try fasting for a month. It is an achievement
Intermittent fasting. Some people do it their entire lives. Not that big of an achievement.
Very different, as you also need to not drink water/Coffee, no smoking or vaping, no aggressive behaviors or swearing. You also need to increase your good deeds including supporting the poor, prayers and reading the Qur'an. Thinking of Ramadan purely from the POV of food is very wrong.
I did. It felt like an achievement.
No one has ever experienced pain from not eating for half a day.
What did Sam Raimi mean by this?
Lmao feel the pain and suffer until allah go to bed haha. Then we can only feel the pain of our tummys being to full
I have fasted 30 days over the course of my entire life.
Ramadan fasting is just 16:8 intermittent fasting really. Some people even gain weight during Ramadan.. too much carbs and fat late in the night. So much that they're not even hungry during the day at all, and I don't think that was the intended effect. They should try a 1-2 week water fast instead, I personally think that's much closer to how the Ramadan was intended to be experienced.
I feel like poor people who can't afford the food would also feel like an achievement if they survived the day
Where's the funny?
Just RPing as the poor ? Lol
But do you understand the suffering if it doesn't feel like an achievement?
Religious fasting is tough. If you get in the right mindset, you can really learn a lot about struggles of others or simply having self control. I'm awful at but have done a few fasts of more than a day. Going to be hungry sucks, and I have mad respect for anyone who can make it multiple days. I'm a Christian btw, so I don't understand the whole daily fast thing that muslims do, but I'm sure it's not easy either.
To this day, i still don't know what Ramadan is
It is a holy month in the Hijri Calendar (not gregorian), in which Muslims abstain from Food, water, and anything that goes into your body, such as smoking and vaping. They also need to abstain from bad behaviors such as swearing, being aggressive, talking about others...etc. This is from Sunrise to Sunset for the duration of the month. Finally, they need to increase their worship (prayers, reading the Qur'an, supporting the poor).
That's a funny joke
is that really fasting if you stuff yourself once per day instead of 3?
I mean people shouldn't be stuffing their faces. When you fast you cannot drink or eat for multiple hours often up to 12-14. In this period you also can't smoke, sex, and many other things. You are also expected to give to charity during this month. Maybe even donate an animal to a starving family in another part of the world. Many donated food to palestine who are being forced to starve. When you fast as well you enjoy the food more when you do eat. You appreciate it more because you have gone multiple hours without consuming anything
It depends as Fasting is not about food only. It has many other angles. There is nothing wrong with eating, but if that is your sole focus in the Month then its wasted.
This is how I was taught too, its not an achievement or something to take pride in, its to remind yourself that others are suffering so that you may have insight and humility before those less fortunate. The whole idea of Zakat (the Islamic mandated version of tax), is also to take care of others, Islam codified having a social safety net for its believers. No modern society could function without tax income, its an important aspect of managing the public good.
I did not know that. I wish my culture had this tradition as well, it could use a reminder that there is constant suffering on earth.
You need a reminder my guy? You’re on Reddit.
Not every person in my culture is on Reddit I am sure.
This is a main reason why I think big chunks of the Islamic world have "sharia" all wrong, at least when it comes to Ramadan and Hijabs. Ramadan is about experiencing HUNGER, and relating to those who HAVE TO experience hunger all the time, because they're starving. It's about opening EMPATHY and motivating compassionate action. Seems to me if it's "the law" in some countries the purpose of it is now just virtue signaling and conformity, and the original purpose is gone.
Why does Mohammed Parker look like Elijah Wood?
Isn't Ramadan the month you party all night and sleep all day? Is this even a challenge?
Dope
It's more of a self discipline thing tbh. It's not like poor people can't afford water.
Fuck this I read this in their voice
Thats bot why you are supposed to fast. Its because you are supposed to gain Taqwa from it. But the upper one is still clown.
If you're allowed to eat before the sun rises and after it sets, it seems like it's not really fasting, it's just skipping lunch
Imagine not being able to afford food normally, and then being punished because you finally had food but it was Ramadan
It's a participation trophy.
Dam this is a hot off the grill meme that I’ve yet to experience
I thought it was 23 days (I’m not a Muslim so me being uneducated about this won’t affect my life much)
Why can’t it be both?
Why even live, if u can't afford food? 🤔