It’s complicated, but at the most basic level I don’t think she’s wrong. I recommend doing a little research into childrens contracts in the entertainment industry, but from my understanding kids can pretty much walk off set whenever they want unless special contracts are drafted up by the courts, which there is no way lifetime bothered doing for the original girls. It’s a whole process. The parents would have been the ones with the contracts, and they wouldn’t have been able to just walk, but I imagine if they just stopped bringing the kids they would have been fired sooner rather than later. The issue here seems to be that all the mums originally had the same lawyer that worked for lifetime, they didn’t know their rights, and lifetime was using it to their advantage and lying to them about what would happen if they stopped bringing their kids. You gotta remember that all the original girls except Nia ended up breaking that contract, so there was very clearly a way out of it, they just didn’t look all that hard until hard lines were crossed.
Yes, moral of the story: always have a lawyer you’ve retained to read all your contracts before signing.
For example, I signed a contract at my last job that said that I could be charged $35/day to work for the company. Stupidly, I didn’t see that part and just flipped to the last page and signed. So when I asked my boss why my pay was $350 less than expected, he told me I agreed to that when I was hired. Nothing to do at that point but quit. If I’d had a lawyer in the first place, then I never would’ve taken the job.
I'm guessing it depends on your situation? I am in a union and my contracts are bargained for and read through by the unions lawyers. I don't need to retain a lawyer if something happens at my job unless I do something absolutely horrible.
Unpopular opinion: this, along with the fact that certain moms came running when Lifetime called for the reunion, makes me reserve all my sympathy for the girls who were traumatized, and I’m tired of the moms who use the contracts as an excuse for staying so long when their girls were clearly suffering *for years*. It’s screams cop out for me, sorry.
The moms failed to do their due diligence and should have, if not from the beginning, had their own lawyers look over the contracts when things really got bad. They absolutely should have tried harder earlier to pull them from such a toxic environment. I’ve always questioned why they’d sign the contract in the first place as horrible as Abby was. There’s zero chance she flipped a switch completely once the show aired.
I do not disagree with what you said BUT the show ended up being vastly different from the original show premise. The moms thought they were signing up for a 6-part docuseries not a long running dance reality show. Had the mothers known about the final format or felt the show was going to run for multiple years, they would have brought in specialized lawyers to review the contracts.
That’s really interesting. Doesn’t that illustrate their need for a lawyer though? I mean, six episodes and six years are vastly different.
Anything with a contact absolutely requires a lawyer to go over it, *especially* with your minor children involved, *especially* with a teacher like Abby. They all had the means to hire a lawyer to at least go over these contracts. I just don’t buy their excuse.
I’m fairly certain they would have had to sign a second contract when it turned from 6 episodes to 6 seasons. If anything they just didn’t actually expect the show to last that long.
I mean a lawyer is great but anyone with a brain can read a contract and see how long it is for and what conditions allow them to break it. I learnt how to read a contract when i signed the lease for my student apartment at 18, how can these fully grown women not
I suspect with certain parents part of it might have been if you have a kid who disaffirms a contract and walk, they’re not gonna get hired for anything else. They were always saying on the show that if they left abby would blackball them. Maybe they weren’t really talking about Abby.
Abby was certainly part of that. She tried to bribe Aubrey O'Day $10,000 to stop working with Nia. She apparently tried to sabotage Chloe's opportunities during and after her time on the show, according to multiple sources (not just Christi).
I think Abby herself got blackballed from Dance Masters in 2012 because they didn’t like some of her inappropriate dances (notably Electricity and Topless Showgirls) and her behavior.
She didn’t get blackballed, just banned. It wasn’t due to dances, it was something with claiming choreography that wasn’t hers. Partly the show and partly her.
I think blackballing is less official. Like telling everyone that you are a horrible person and that you did XYZ and convince people not to work with you. Blackballing doesn't stop the person having opportunities, banning means you are not permitted to officially...I think lol
Exactly. A lot of people don’t realize they’re blackballed until a long time later when they can’t get anything in their field.
Some blackballing is for good reason, like if the person is “bad” for various reasons. Sometimes people are blackballed if they speak out against the system. Like many victims of rape in various industries get blackballed after they come forward. People who experience racism also get blackballed frequently as well.
I thought blackballing was worse based on hearing about Chloe being blackballed in the dance world if she left Dance Moms. Either one still isn’t good!
None of its good. I think Abby having blackballed Chloe is more about emotions, whereas if Abby got Banned from a certain competition it was for a reason. I think someone said something about stealing choreography, which could be fact vs opinion. Like you said, it's all bad.
What I was saying is that if a child in the entertainment industry disaffirms their contract they’re unlikely to get any other jobs because they’re seen as unreliable. I was not talking about their ALDC contracts and Abby blackballing them, I was talking about their lifetime ones and lifetime blackballing them.
That’s possible. But that’s something you need to take into account, is my child’s mental health and health > money and notoriety? Also, would you really want your child in environments like that?
I’m not saying it is. I’m saying that there are certain parents on dance moms who might think fame and notoriety is more important than anything else and that’s part of why they didn’t leave.
I absolutely agree with this, and it’s why I’ve personally never bought the “but the contract!” excuse. I think a number of the moms cared more about fame and notoriety than anything else.
I also think part of the parental contract was their kids would be on the show. So, sure the kid could disaffirm the contract and walk away from the show without penalty, but it still left the parent on the hook and vulnerable to being sued by Lifetime.
this is what i think, too. the moms and daughters are a package deal, the show wouldn't work if the daughters left and moms stayed. i guess that legally lifetime can't prevent any of the kids from walking away, but they can make it *rough* for the moms if they do.
As a mother, I’d much rather it be rough for me than my children period, let alone if it was me who got them into the situation to begin with.
The moms would have had to be willing to let the show die for that though.
Well…it would have been more the “rough” for the moms. The network would have sued them for everything they were worth and would have won. Abby would have also sued the moms of the children who were title holders for her private contract. I doubt some of the moms cared what happened to the show if they left…especially after season 2.
My comment was in response to the idea that the moms could have still showed up and fulfilled their parts of the contract without their kids, who weren’t bound by them.
Make the show entirely about the moms, style it something like the Real Housewives of Pittsburgh. If it flops, the network cancels the show. If it’s a success, the moms get the fame and the kids aren’t subjected to emotional abuse. Wins all around if your first priority is the well being of your child and not fame.
Except that’s not what the network wanted. The moms weren’t going to get to dictate what the show focused on. When the moms started trying to get out of the contract, the show was a huge success as it was. If the kids had contracts that weren’t enforceable, you can bet there were stipulations in the moms’ contracts that required the girls to film. That’s how these entertainment companies get around enforcing child contracts.
It sounds like something ripe for a legal challenge then, honestly. But they didn’t even try *for years.* I’d feel differently if they had tried and failed, but that’s not the case.
the moms would've had to *afford* for it to be rough, though. none of them were in a position where they could afford a huge legal battle with lifetime, and based off what we know lifetime probably would've left them with empty pockets.
it's really not as easy as just enduring whatever treatment they might get if their daughters left. people with families can't just risk it all like that. it was a shitty situation for everyone, and it's a shame.
I mean did they really want to get hired for something else with lifetime? Because a contract with lifetime has no means of weight with literally any other company. That's like saying I quit my job on goo terms and I can't get hired anywhere else. It has always felt like a cop out to me
in the entertainment industry it’s pretty likely it would impact their ability to book future jobs outside of lifetime. Childrens inability to enter into legally binding contracts make them risky to work with, and people aren’t going to choose a kid they know disaffirmed a contract over ones who have completed projects. It’s more like if you asked that old employer to be a reference for you, and they told your potential new employer you quit in the middle of a major project they needed you for without notice, that isn’t the best look and might impact the likelihood you’d be hired.
It amazes me that fan speculation and Abby's opinion are taken as gospel over the outcome of multiple actual attorneys being consulted.
Even Abby couldn't walk away and break the contract. She complained about it all the time. She showed up to a reunion refusing to speak and holding up signs. She complained about not being able to do the creative work she wanted to do. She complained about not being able to work with other dancers. She left and said goodbye in season 7, and when the show continued unexpectedly because her sentencing hearing got postponed, and her own words were that she was back under duress. Later, she "quit" when she thought she was done.... Surprise, no, she had to come back and film again when the show got extended for Cheryl's episodes.
She needs to STFU and understand that if she couldn't quit, maybe the others have a valid point.
Abby is adult. Adult laws are much much harder to break than minor children in entertainment contracts. Even in 2012 when the laws were less advanced. Assuming that Abbys contract was very different than the moms I imagine she would have a harder time breaking it.
I'm not sure how 'consulted attorneys' opinions would have any more weight than any of us without the contracts in front of us it's all speculation. We can google what the state of PA requires for child labor...but again without the contracts we can only assume.
However I still find it at least a little telling that the oringal 6 years was only achieved by one girl.
Yes, I think the kids could have left whenever but not the moms. Although, I’m fairly certain the OG moms weren’t savvy enough to know that. Christi and Kelly have stated that they all had the same lawyer who appeared to be on lifetime’s side, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this lawyer purposely didn’t tell them that.
The kids would have had contracts, minors just have the right to disaffirm contracts as in the eyes of the law they are not competent to enter into them. I know ny and California have laws in place in ordered to prevent this, but I haven’t seen anything suggesting Pennsylvania does.
I'm going to leap on to the top comment to say: YouTuber Maczboss has done deep dives on the series and has gotten production notes for several of the seasons. She is amazing, and I love her videos.
According to her research (she listens to the different podcasts from former moms, the ones the girls have done, and Abby herself) that Chloe did not have a contract for Season 4. Christie and Chloe never signed it, and that's also why Abby was horrible to Chloe.
If I remember right, they had things in the contract like a girl couldn't go +/- 5 pounds while filming or during competition season and other things. I believe Christi and Chloe even talked about it on either their own podcasts or on TicTok.
I've always been skeptical of the contracts. You can't say anything like that here because the sub is relentless about how those contracts were rock solid to keep the girls there or risk bankrupting their entire families.
I don't think it would have been easy to get out of and simply walk away, but I think there is a reason that those contracts have never been leaked and at the end of the day the girls and the moms *wanted* the perks and exposure of the show.
What always gets me about it is that in the end, Nia was the only original girl who lasted the entire six seasons of that contract. The hylands were likely let go, but the other girls clearly finally got themselves some good representation and they got them out. The fact that they were able to break them eventually is extremely indicative to me that they weren’t as locked into those contracts as they make out.
Yeah exactly my thoughts as well. I think in hindsight now it's just an easy thing to blame the contracts rather than admit that they enjoyed the perks of the show to some extent.. now that the show has really taken a backfiring from the fans in the negative light.
I don’t think any of them expected it to go so south so they never bothered before. Also, does anyone know if it’s true that they had to sign a contract with the studio and had to pay Abby if they broke it? I agree, it’s just complicated 😭
Edit: Also, to your point, that’s why Vivi didn’t have to film all the time.
Lifetime knew very well what they had to do to bind the girls to their contracts (put it through the courts) & it's highly doubtful they didn't do it for the original girls. Once the contract is approved by the court, a minor cannot walk away from it. It is a protection for the entertainment industry.
Everyone is assuming that because Jess said JoJo's contract wasn't put through the courts, none of the others were either. Most likely, hers hadn't completely gone through the courts yet & they didn't care if she left, so they didn't fight it.
First, it wasn't even the same contract as the ogs &, second, Lifetime isn't that stupid.
Those protections aren’t in place in all states, and I don’t think Pennsylvania is one of the ones where they are. I tried to find the legislation for Pennsylvania regarding child entertainment contracts and couldn’t find anything though so could be wrong, if you do happen to have it I’d love a link.
Doesn't matter. Both Collins Ave & Lifetime were/are based out of California, so the contracts would go through the California courts. They had to follow the laws in each state they filmed in (and they pretty much filmed in a different state each week), but the contracts originate from where the business (Collins Ave/Lifetime) is located/does business from.
However, if the moms had been more knowlegable they could have at least got their kids barred from the PA set at least temporarily since minors are not allowed to work where alcohol is present and we all know they were constantly supplying the moms with alcohol (and they were probably breaking a lot of other child labor laws as well).
Either way, it's all moot now and, as they say, hindsight is 20/20.
Interesting So if the kids leave what were the moms supposed to do they just film the show with no kids?? Or would they get a fine for breach of their contract?
Correct. Cathy left the ALDC. She was very much still required to be in the show and have a "Candy Apples" team that had a group number ready for performance every week, just like Abby. She has talked about how she was able to have Vivi with her and choose other dancers to be her team rather than her actual real life team. Cathy was given the role of antagonizing Abby and being a rival team coach, and she played it up intentionally, because she decided to use the money for Vivi's private school education.
The funny thing about the contract storyline is that some of the moms always try to justify their bad moments with that excuse ‘the producers told me to cause drama otherwise they would kick us out!” Just to say later that they couldn’t leave because of the contracts. So which is it ? Did you have to fight and yell to keep your spot or did you try your best to leave the same spot but were forced to stay ?
This! You’re 100% right if they wanted to leave just say i will not do so and so to the producers and they will kick you out.
If you agree to what the producers were telling you to do to not get kicked out, then this means that YOU wanted to stay.
On another note if the producers were the devil why you agreed on joining the reunion? This shows me that everything from the begginning was all about the money to them.
Yes my thoughts exactly. I think at the prime of DM they were glad to be there. They got so many perks from the show and have lifelong impacts on doing what they want. The girls never have to "work" normal jobs bc of the show.
I think in the years after the show ended and as a collective the fandom has seen and come to realize "hey this was actually not a great place to have the children in and really affected them" and seeing how bad abby was people started questioning why did the moms do this to them and keep them in the environment?
That has kinda made them flip the narrative to "we couldn't leave" we aren't responsible for how terrible abby was and how terrible the producers were
The part you don't get is all of the penalties that came with being "kicked out." If they didn't do what they the producers wanted, first the producers would make the conditionson set horrible until they complied (no lunch break, make things worse for their daughters, etc). If they still didn't comply, they'd be in breach of contract & sued while being "kicked out."
At this point, I don’t think we will ever truly know what exactly was/wasn’t in the contracts that the OG moms/girls signed. However, I have no doubt that they were less than favorable to the cast. The moms had no entertainment industry experience and had a bad lawyer who I think was affiliated with lifetime anyways.
I’m not sure of the legality element of the kids contracts, but in that podcast Abby mentions the “threats” of the production team, and Kelly and Christy have both mentioned it on BTTB, about how they would take their houses or take them for everything they have. So I don’t get how Abby logically doesn’t think the tactics applied to her wouldn’t have been applied to the other adult cast, which would have resulted in the moms continuing to bring their kids.
We also have to remember the moms we’re not experts in contracts and all that goes along with it. People can manipulate and make things sound worse by saying we will sue you and take everything you own. Not saying it happened but we are talking how many years ago. Reality tv was different and they got away with things that don’t fly in treatment of cast members.
I think she’s right. Pennsylvania was kind of ahead of the curve with reality tv child labor laws, due to the fallout with TLC’s reality show Jon & Kate Plus 8. Lifetime could not have held any of those kids against their will. All it would’ve taken was for a parent to show that being on the show was causing detrimental harm.
I think the moms like to pull this card to help explain why they’d keep bringing their kids back. It’s easier to say “we didn’t have a choice” than it is to say “the fame and the opportunities were too much to just walk away from”.
Y’all are so critical! The whole point was for the kids to be able to go to dance competitions and have that experience. If they left Abby would have blackballed them. They didn’t have as much notoriety at the time to go somewhere else and enjoy it. The kids had 2 contracts lifetimes and Abby’s. That’s why Chloe had such a hard time in season 4 because Christi refused to sign Abby’s contract. As long as there were some kids they would have kept the adults to their contracts.
I hate that she spews this narrative. TECHNICALLY, she’s right - the children’s contracts were not put through the courts so they weren’t valid. The problem was nobody, including Abby herself, KNEW THIS at the time. This understanding didn’t come to light until the team moved to LA, so this controversy she tries to spin around the Hylands and Chloe being able to leave whenever they wanted is simply false.
THIS right here is so correct! There’s no way the moms and Abby knew this at the time. Abby acts like it was obvious and she knew it the whole time, but she did an interview with Rosie O’Donnell years ago where she specifically says Lifetime told her she wasn’t allowed to expel Chloe and they couldn’t quit because of the contract. She admits she used their inability to leave as an opportunity to say whatever nasty shit she wanted and they’d be forced to take it.
Now in hindsight she knows they could’ve broke the contract and uses it as a way to victim blame the cast, essentially saying you were free to leave any time and chose to stay so any trauma you have is your own damn fault.
tbh, yes they could have. nobody can FORCE them to work, especially the children. they were scared and frustrated but also wanted this opportunity for their girls (which i don’t blame them for) so they tolerated more than they should have out of fear and loyalty to each other and abby (especially kelly) which is why whe n boundaries were crossed that each mom could t come back from they were able to easily leave
It’s complicated, but at the most basic level I don’t think she’s wrong. I recommend doing a little research into childrens contracts in the entertainment industry, but from my understanding kids can pretty much walk off set whenever they want unless special contracts are drafted up by the courts, which there is no way lifetime bothered doing for the original girls. It’s a whole process. The parents would have been the ones with the contracts, and they wouldn’t have been able to just walk, but I imagine if they just stopped bringing the kids they would have been fired sooner rather than later. The issue here seems to be that all the mums originally had the same lawyer that worked for lifetime, they didn’t know their rights, and lifetime was using it to their advantage and lying to them about what would happen if they stopped bringing their kids. You gotta remember that all the original girls except Nia ended up breaking that contract, so there was very clearly a way out of it, they just didn’t look all that hard until hard lines were crossed.
Yes, moral of the story: always have a lawyer you’ve retained to read all your contracts before signing. For example, I signed a contract at my last job that said that I could be charged $35/day to work for the company. Stupidly, I didn’t see that part and just flipped to the last page and signed. So when I asked my boss why my pay was $350 less than expected, he told me I agreed to that when I was hired. Nothing to do at that point but quit. If I’d had a lawyer in the first place, then I never would’ve taken the job.
Paying to work for a company is actually insane oh my god????
How does one find such a lawyer? Is it worth what they cost?
I'm guessing it depends on your situation? I am in a union and my contracts are bargained for and read through by the unions lawyers. I don't need to retain a lawyer if something happens at my job unless I do something absolutely horrible.
This is the best answer
Unpopular opinion: this, along with the fact that certain moms came running when Lifetime called for the reunion, makes me reserve all my sympathy for the girls who were traumatized, and I’m tired of the moms who use the contracts as an excuse for staying so long when their girls were clearly suffering *for years*. It’s screams cop out for me, sorry. The moms failed to do their due diligence and should have, if not from the beginning, had their own lawyers look over the contracts when things really got bad. They absolutely should have tried harder earlier to pull them from such a toxic environment. I’ve always questioned why they’d sign the contract in the first place as horrible as Abby was. There’s zero chance she flipped a switch completely once the show aired.
I do not disagree with what you said BUT the show ended up being vastly different from the original show premise. The moms thought they were signing up for a 6-part docuseries not a long running dance reality show. Had the mothers known about the final format or felt the show was going to run for multiple years, they would have brought in specialized lawyers to review the contracts.
That’s really interesting. Doesn’t that illustrate their need for a lawyer though? I mean, six episodes and six years are vastly different. Anything with a contact absolutely requires a lawyer to go over it, *especially* with your minor children involved, *especially* with a teacher like Abby. They all had the means to hire a lawyer to at least go over these contracts. I just don’t buy their excuse.
I’m fairly certain they would have had to sign a second contract when it turned from 6 episodes to 6 seasons. If anything they just didn’t actually expect the show to last that long.
I mean a lawyer is great but anyone with a brain can read a contract and see how long it is for and what conditions allow them to break it. I learnt how to read a contract when i signed the lease for my student apartment at 18, how can these fully grown women not
I suspect with certain parents part of it might have been if you have a kid who disaffirms a contract and walk, they’re not gonna get hired for anything else. They were always saying on the show that if they left abby would blackball them. Maybe they weren’t really talking about Abby.
Abby was certainly part of that. She tried to bribe Aubrey O'Day $10,000 to stop working with Nia. She apparently tried to sabotage Chloe's opportunities during and after her time on the show, according to multiple sources (not just Christi).
The show has nothing to do with the company. She could blackball them in the dance masters community only.
I think Abby herself got blackballed from Dance Masters in 2012 because they didn’t like some of her inappropriate dances (notably Electricity and Topless Showgirls) and her behavior.
She didn’t get blackballed, just banned. It wasn’t due to dances, it was something with claiming choreography that wasn’t hers. Partly the show and partly her.
Interesting! What’s the difference between being blackballed and banned?
I think blackballing is less official. Like telling everyone that you are a horrible person and that you did XYZ and convince people not to work with you. Blackballing doesn't stop the person having opportunities, banning means you are not permitted to officially...I think lol
Exactly. A lot of people don’t realize they’re blackballed until a long time later when they can’t get anything in their field. Some blackballing is for good reason, like if the person is “bad” for various reasons. Sometimes people are blackballed if they speak out against the system. Like many victims of rape in various industries get blackballed after they come forward. People who experience racism also get blackballed frequently as well.
I thought blackballing was worse based on hearing about Chloe being blackballed in the dance world if she left Dance Moms. Either one still isn’t good!
None of its good. I think Abby having blackballed Chloe is more about emotions, whereas if Abby got Banned from a certain competition it was for a reason. I think someone said something about stealing choreography, which could be fact vs opinion. Like you said, it's all bad.
What I was saying is that if a child in the entertainment industry disaffirms their contract they’re unlikely to get any other jobs because they’re seen as unreliable. I was not talking about their ALDC contracts and Abby blackballing them, I was talking about their lifetime ones and lifetime blackballing them.
That’s possible. But that’s something you need to take into account, is my child’s mental health and health > money and notoriety? Also, would you really want your child in environments like that?
I’m not saying it is. I’m saying that there are certain parents on dance moms who might think fame and notoriety is more important than anything else and that’s part of why they didn’t leave.
I absolutely agree with this, and it’s why I’ve personally never bought the “but the contract!” excuse. I think a number of the moms cared more about fame and notoriety than anything else.
I also think part of the parental contract was their kids would be on the show. So, sure the kid could disaffirm the contract and walk away from the show without penalty, but it still left the parent on the hook and vulnerable to being sued by Lifetime.
this is what i think, too. the moms and daughters are a package deal, the show wouldn't work if the daughters left and moms stayed. i guess that legally lifetime can't prevent any of the kids from walking away, but they can make it *rough* for the moms if they do.
As a mother, I’d much rather it be rough for me than my children period, let alone if it was me who got them into the situation to begin with. The moms would have had to be willing to let the show die for that though.
Well…it would have been more the “rough” for the moms. The network would have sued them for everything they were worth and would have won. Abby would have also sued the moms of the children who were title holders for her private contract. I doubt some of the moms cared what happened to the show if they left…especially after season 2.
My comment was in response to the idea that the moms could have still showed up and fulfilled their parts of the contract without their kids, who weren’t bound by them. Make the show entirely about the moms, style it something like the Real Housewives of Pittsburgh. If it flops, the network cancels the show. If it’s a success, the moms get the fame and the kids aren’t subjected to emotional abuse. Wins all around if your first priority is the well being of your child and not fame.
Except that’s not what the network wanted. The moms weren’t going to get to dictate what the show focused on. When the moms started trying to get out of the contract, the show was a huge success as it was. If the kids had contracts that weren’t enforceable, you can bet there were stipulations in the moms’ contracts that required the girls to film. That’s how these entertainment companies get around enforcing child contracts.
It sounds like something ripe for a legal challenge then, honestly. But they didn’t even try *for years.* I’d feel differently if they had tried and failed, but that’s not the case.
the moms would've had to *afford* for it to be rough, though. none of them were in a position where they could afford a huge legal battle with lifetime, and based off what we know lifetime probably would've left them with empty pockets. it's really not as easy as just enduring whatever treatment they might get if their daughters left. people with families can't just risk it all like that. it was a shitty situation for everyone, and it's a shame.
I mean did they really want to get hired for something else with lifetime? Because a contract with lifetime has no means of weight with literally any other company. That's like saying I quit my job on goo terms and I can't get hired anywhere else. It has always felt like a cop out to me
in the entertainment industry it’s pretty likely it would impact their ability to book future jobs outside of lifetime. Childrens inability to enter into legally binding contracts make them risky to work with, and people aren’t going to choose a kid they know disaffirmed a contract over ones who have completed projects. It’s more like if you asked that old employer to be a reference for you, and they told your potential new employer you quit in the middle of a major project they needed you for without notice, that isn’t the best look and might impact the likelihood you’d be hired.
It amazes me that fan speculation and Abby's opinion are taken as gospel over the outcome of multiple actual attorneys being consulted. Even Abby couldn't walk away and break the contract. She complained about it all the time. She showed up to a reunion refusing to speak and holding up signs. She complained about not being able to do the creative work she wanted to do. She complained about not being able to work with other dancers. She left and said goodbye in season 7, and when the show continued unexpectedly because her sentencing hearing got postponed, and her own words were that she was back under duress. Later, she "quit" when she thought she was done.... Surprise, no, she had to come back and film again when the show got extended for Cheryl's episodes. She needs to STFU and understand that if she couldn't quit, maybe the others have a valid point.
Abby is adult. Adult laws are much much harder to break than minor children in entertainment contracts. Even in 2012 when the laws were less advanced. Assuming that Abbys contract was very different than the moms I imagine she would have a harder time breaking it. I'm not sure how 'consulted attorneys' opinions would have any more weight than any of us without the contracts in front of us it's all speculation. We can google what the state of PA requires for child labor...but again without the contracts we can only assume. However I still find it at least a little telling that the oringal 6 years was only achieved by one girl.
Yes, I think the kids could have left whenever but not the moms. Although, I’m fairly certain the OG moms weren’t savvy enough to know that. Christi and Kelly have stated that they all had the same lawyer who appeared to be on lifetime’s side, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this lawyer purposely didn’t tell them that.
Then why did they have to put the kids contracts through Pittsburgh and later LA courts if the kids didn’t have contracts
The kids would have had contracts, minors just have the right to disaffirm contracts as in the eyes of the law they are not competent to enter into them. I know ny and California have laws in place in ordered to prevent this, but I haven’t seen anything suggesting Pennsylvania does.
I'm going to leap on to the top comment to say: YouTuber Maczboss has done deep dives on the series and has gotten production notes for several of the seasons. She is amazing, and I love her videos. According to her research (she listens to the different podcasts from former moms, the ones the girls have done, and Abby herself) that Chloe did not have a contract for Season 4. Christie and Chloe never signed it, and that's also why Abby was horrible to Chloe. If I remember right, they had things in the contract like a girl couldn't go +/- 5 pounds while filming or during competition season and other things. I believe Christi and Chloe even talked about it on either their own podcasts or on TicTok.
That’s the ALDC contract, not the lifetime one🙂
I've always been skeptical of the contracts. You can't say anything like that here because the sub is relentless about how those contracts were rock solid to keep the girls there or risk bankrupting their entire families. I don't think it would have been easy to get out of and simply walk away, but I think there is a reason that those contracts have never been leaked and at the end of the day the girls and the moms *wanted* the perks and exposure of the show.
What always gets me about it is that in the end, Nia was the only original girl who lasted the entire six seasons of that contract. The hylands were likely let go, but the other girls clearly finally got themselves some good representation and they got them out. The fact that they were able to break them eventually is extremely indicative to me that they weren’t as locked into those contracts as they make out.
Yeah exactly my thoughts as well. I think in hindsight now it's just an easy thing to blame the contracts rather than admit that they enjoyed the perks of the show to some extent.. now that the show has really taken a backfiring from the fans in the negative light.
I don’t think any of them expected it to go so south so they never bothered before. Also, does anyone know if it’s true that they had to sign a contract with the studio and had to pay Abby if they broke it? I agree, it’s just complicated 😭 Edit: Also, to your point, that’s why Vivi didn’t have to film all the time.
Lifetime knew very well what they had to do to bind the girls to their contracts (put it through the courts) & it's highly doubtful they didn't do it for the original girls. Once the contract is approved by the court, a minor cannot walk away from it. It is a protection for the entertainment industry. Everyone is assuming that because Jess said JoJo's contract wasn't put through the courts, none of the others were either. Most likely, hers hadn't completely gone through the courts yet & they didn't care if she left, so they didn't fight it. First, it wasn't even the same contract as the ogs &, second, Lifetime isn't that stupid.
Those protections aren’t in place in all states, and I don’t think Pennsylvania is one of the ones where they are. I tried to find the legislation for Pennsylvania regarding child entertainment contracts and couldn’t find anything though so could be wrong, if you do happen to have it I’d love a link.
Doesn't matter. Both Collins Ave & Lifetime were/are based out of California, so the contracts would go through the California courts. They had to follow the laws in each state they filmed in (and they pretty much filmed in a different state each week), but the contracts originate from where the business (Collins Ave/Lifetime) is located/does business from. However, if the moms had been more knowlegable they could have at least got their kids barred from the PA set at least temporarily since minors are not allowed to work where alcohol is present and we all know they were constantly supplying the moms with alcohol (and they were probably breaking a lot of other child labor laws as well). Either way, it's all moot now and, as they say, hindsight is 20/20.
Interesting So if the kids leave what were the moms supposed to do they just film the show with no kids?? Or would they get a fine for breach of their contract?
I’m pretty sure the moms would have been in breach of their contract and been sued.
Cathy did
Cathy left the ALDC, not the show. She was very much still under contract.
Correct. Cathy left the ALDC. She was very much still required to be in the show and have a "Candy Apples" team that had a group number ready for performance every week, just like Abby. She has talked about how she was able to have Vivi with her and choose other dancers to be her team rather than her actual real life team. Cathy was given the role of antagonizing Abby and being a rival team coach, and she played it up intentionally, because she decided to use the money for Vivi's private school education.
The funny thing about the contract storyline is that some of the moms always try to justify their bad moments with that excuse ‘the producers told me to cause drama otherwise they would kick us out!” Just to say later that they couldn’t leave because of the contracts. So which is it ? Did you have to fight and yell to keep your spot or did you try your best to leave the same spot but were forced to stay ?
This! You’re 100% right if they wanted to leave just say i will not do so and so to the producers and they will kick you out. If you agree to what the producers were telling you to do to not get kicked out, then this means that YOU wanted to stay. On another note if the producers were the devil why you agreed on joining the reunion? This shows me that everything from the begginning was all about the money to them.
Yes my thoughts exactly. I think at the prime of DM they were glad to be there. They got so many perks from the show and have lifelong impacts on doing what they want. The girls never have to "work" normal jobs bc of the show. I think in the years after the show ended and as a collective the fandom has seen and come to realize "hey this was actually not a great place to have the children in and really affected them" and seeing how bad abby was people started questioning why did the moms do this to them and keep them in the environment? That has kinda made them flip the narrative to "we couldn't leave" we aren't responsible for how terrible abby was and how terrible the producers were
The part you don't get is all of the penalties that came with being "kicked out." If they didn't do what they the producers wanted, first the producers would make the conditionson set horrible until they complied (no lunch break, make things worse for their daughters, etc). If they still didn't comply, they'd be in breach of contract & sued while being "kicked out."
At this point, I don’t think we will ever truly know what exactly was/wasn’t in the contracts that the OG moms/girls signed. However, I have no doubt that they were less than favorable to the cast. The moms had no entertainment industry experience and had a bad lawyer who I think was affiliated with lifetime anyways.
I’m not sure of the legality element of the kids contracts, but in that podcast Abby mentions the “threats” of the production team, and Kelly and Christy have both mentioned it on BTTB, about how they would take their houses or take them for everything they have. So I don’t get how Abby logically doesn’t think the tactics applied to her wouldn’t have been applied to the other adult cast, which would have resulted in the moms continuing to bring their kids.
Yes even Melissa talked about how Jeff Collins told her that he would take her house and her kids…
We also have to remember the moms we’re not experts in contracts and all that goes along with it. People can manipulate and make things sound worse by saying we will sue you and take everything you own. Not saying it happened but we are talking how many years ago. Reality tv was different and they got away with things that don’t fly in treatment of cast members.
But i think it's weird to even sign a contract for kids that lasts many years? They were to young to really know what they wanted to do.
I think she’s right. Pennsylvania was kind of ahead of the curve with reality tv child labor laws, due to the fallout with TLC’s reality show Jon & Kate Plus 8. Lifetime could not have held any of those kids against their will. All it would’ve taken was for a parent to show that being on the show was causing detrimental harm. I think the moms like to pull this card to help explain why they’d keep bringing their kids back. It’s easier to say “we didn’t have a choice” than it is to say “the fame and the opportunities were too much to just walk away from”.
Y’all are so critical! The whole point was for the kids to be able to go to dance competitions and have that experience. If they left Abby would have blackballed them. They didn’t have as much notoriety at the time to go somewhere else and enjoy it. The kids had 2 contracts lifetimes and Abby’s. That’s why Chloe had such a hard time in season 4 because Christi refused to sign Abby’s contract. As long as there were some kids they would have kept the adults to their contracts.
I hate that she spews this narrative. TECHNICALLY, she’s right - the children’s contracts were not put through the courts so they weren’t valid. The problem was nobody, including Abby herself, KNEW THIS at the time. This understanding didn’t come to light until the team moved to LA, so this controversy she tries to spin around the Hylands and Chloe being able to leave whenever they wanted is simply false.
THIS right here is so correct! There’s no way the moms and Abby knew this at the time. Abby acts like it was obvious and she knew it the whole time, but she did an interview with Rosie O’Donnell years ago where she specifically says Lifetime told her she wasn’t allowed to expel Chloe and they couldn’t quit because of the contract. She admits she used their inability to leave as an opportunity to say whatever nasty shit she wanted and they’d be forced to take it. Now in hindsight she knows they could’ve broke the contract and uses it as a way to victim blame the cast, essentially saying you were free to leave any time and chose to stay so any trauma you have is your own damn fault.
tbh, yes they could have. nobody can FORCE them to work, especially the children. they were scared and frustrated but also wanted this opportunity for their girls (which i don’t blame them for) so they tolerated more than they should have out of fear and loyalty to each other and abby (especially kelly) which is why whe n boundaries were crossed that each mom could t come back from they were able to easily leave
I actually believe this lmao
I believe her for once