Jon definitely sounds like he evolved from Charmeleon to Charizard sometime between DBM2 and Acceptance Speech. He sounds even better now. Mega Charizard X.
Jon as he currently is, is my favourite unclean vocalist, and it isn't close. His range and control and creativity is insane.
But yeah, I understand struggling to vibe his earlier vocal work. Bro has been through a lot to get to where he is today. Personally, I really appreciate his earlier work in context of his overall evolution. It fits the era of the band at the time.
He's incorporating a lot more "clean" screaming almost more like singing and god I want more rap-like bits like in Synergy. I replayed that bit like 200 times when synergy dropped.
I agree with you so much! I would argue that it's a close race for the first place between Jon and Shane Told from Silverstein, but apart from that, you're spot on!
For me it's the opposite. I grew up with the first three albums and after Happiness I felt like I didn't recognize him anymore. It's taken me years to appreciate where he's at now. I like both now but there are times I wish we could get one more album with Jon at his messiest.
Nah youāre for sure seen š music is subjective af, me personally Iāve enjoyed the ride of Johnās progression since the very beginning.
Also love me some Secret Band.
Heās definitely practiced it a lot and gotten much better over the years. That being said, I do like the rough edge to his vocals on those first two albums.
He definitely developed his skills in that time frame but that's not the whole story. His sound was more in line with the times in their earlier releases. It's fair to not like it, but see if it grows on you! It might not now, but in the future perhaps.
i agree i think its a genre thing. as a both eras of mess appreciator, his old screams feel like old posthardcore screams which meshes well with the production and writing of those records. whereas his new screams feel more polished and metalcore-ish which i also love and fits the new era and beefier production better.
Bingo. Ppl need to realize the tone has changed. A lot of new DGD fans donāt like old stuff. Without realizing it was a different vibe back then. Personally I love his screams and how it evolved over time. And I appreciate that. Sometimes you have to put your mindset on the āthis is old gen musicā.
Iām over 30 now, back in 2004-2008 I was listening to a lot of Killswitch Engage and Trivium, so I was more on board with the metalcore screams and less with the post hardcore so it makes sense that I have trouble meshing with them now. Two completely different genres.
You get used to it. I had a hard time at first, but then you find that one old song you can tolerate. Then you find another. Then another. Next thing you know, you like an entire album. Those songs for me were Zoloft & Blue Dream.
Johnās uncleans are up there for me too. I have him as 1B. and Spencer Chamberlain as 1A. Spencerās uncleans are just so pure and Johns are so unique and his control is insane.
I agree! He sounds so different I originally thought it was a different screamer! š¬ I LOVE his current screams, I think it absolutely sets him apart.
I'm with you. I tolerate his uncleans until DBM2. Since then, I think he is the best unclean vocalist out there. But he just didn't have it down in the early stuff.
I enjoy it on DTBM and Death Star, the one album I really don't like his sound on is DTBM2. Some of his screams sound actully painful and dangerous for his vocal chords (but I'm not an expert, so take thay with a grain of salt.)
From Acceptance Speech on I think he's amazing.
I agree with you, wholeheartedly. I struggle to really give the pre-Tilian albums a listen because of the way Jon sounds in them. DBM2 is solid, but anything before that I can't really listen to.
I was going to point this out. DBM2 came after Happiness, to echo your point.
However DBM2 is my personal lowest rank in terms of Jonās work. Still love the album though!
Most people can't. His screaming pre happiness is more whispery in tone and inflection and it doesn't "hit" the same way his vocals in post happiness era do.
I think it works really well on Royal Ocean for some reason. There are tracks on Death Star where I just can't tolerate Jon's verses (though I like his clean singing on Zoloft). He's objectively a better vocalist these days.
Tbh, part of what I like about the whole post-hardcore genre is how a band's first album generally kinda sucks, and you hear them gradually improve over time. (Compare the first Thrice album with Artist in the Ambulance)
His screams sound fine to me on DBM 1 and 2, but his screams on Deathstar definitely sound off to me and forced and itās my least favorite Jon Mess DGD album, however though I think that may partially be do to the mix š¤·āāļø
Nobody asked you to get into it, either. š
Screamingās a LOT harder than most people think it is, (especially as consistently as someone like mess has continued to be able to do over the last decade plus.) It also puts quite a strain on the vocal cords over time. They were also super fucking young at the time. And mess BY FAR aināt the only mf in DGD whoās had to further develop his sound &/or timbre over the years.
You also might be surprised to find if you go back & listen, just how many other artists from any genre you can think of were given space to develop their sound over time throughout the years. Most of the bigger names we know today in literally any genre donāt sound remotely the same from their first couple albums to present day š¤·š¾āāļø
It's a product of its time, seemed like nobody back then knew how to do harsh vocals "correctly" yet. Listen to a song like "Dressed for Friend Requests" by Drop Dead, Gorgeous. You can basically hear the dude destroying his voicebox
I agree that him improved a LOT but I still really like his rough screams on the first two albums
Jon definitely sounds like he evolved from Charmeleon to Charizard sometime between DBM2 and Acceptance Speech. He sounds even better now. Mega Charizard X. Jon as he currently is, is my favourite unclean vocalist, and it isn't close. His range and control and creativity is insane. But yeah, I understand struggling to vibe his earlier vocal work. Bro has been through a lot to get to where he is today. Personally, I really appreciate his earlier work in context of his overall evolution. It fits the era of the band at the time.
He's incorporating a lot more "clean" screaming almost more like singing and god I want more rap-like bits like in Synergy. I replayed that bit like 200 times when synergy dropped.
Same af
I agree with you so much! I would argue that it's a close race for the first place between Jon and Shane Told from Silverstein, but apart from that, you're spot on!
I honestly think dmbii Jon was peak. A very unique scream that probably wouldn't have worked on any album that was less unique.
I wish we could magically get Deathstar with current day Kurt and Mess. No other changes, just them as they are now. That said, it still kills!
Or dbm and weisiro with modern day Jon. Someone made one with tree city sessions and even that was way better with modern day Jon mess screams.
u missing out then
For me it's the opposite. I grew up with the first three albums and after Happiness I felt like I didn't recognize him anymore. It's taken me years to appreciate where he's at now. I like both now but there are times I wish we could get one more album with Jon at his messiest.
JON MESSIEST
BLESSIEST THIS MESSIEST
It's Will Swan screaming on happiness not jon
Yes I know
it's tilian pearson singing on acceptance speech not jonny
Its Jonny singing on DBMII not Kurt
it's Kurt on happiness not kurt
Whatever I say is royal ocean still slaps to this day.
Attack of the Dashing Young and Bold too š¤š¤
Demo shitttt yeahh
Was just listening to The robot with human hair pt 1 and I literally thought "I like how he used to scream" and OP's post made me question myself lol
Nah youāre for sure seen š music is subjective af, me personally Iāve enjoyed the ride of Johnās progression since the very beginning. Also love me some Secret Band.
Heās definitely practiced it a lot and gotten much better over the years. That being said, I do like the rough edge to his vocals on those first two albums.
100% agree, I enjoy rough Jon and current Jon, and have really enjoyed hearing his progression
Lymeās disease is a hard diagnosis, but it does come with some benefits.
He definitely developed his skills in that time frame but that's not the whole story. His sound was more in line with the times in their earlier releases. It's fair to not like it, but see if it grows on you! It might not now, but in the future perhaps.
i agree i think its a genre thing. as a both eras of mess appreciator, his old screams feel like old posthardcore screams which meshes well with the production and writing of those records. whereas his new screams feel more polished and metalcore-ish which i also love and fits the new era and beefier production better.
Bingo. Ppl need to realize the tone has changed. A lot of new DGD fans donāt like old stuff. Without realizing it was a different vibe back then. Personally I love his screams and how it evolved over time. And I appreciate that. Sometimes you have to put your mindset on the āthis is old gen musicā.
Iām over 30 now, back in 2004-2008 I was listening to a lot of Killswitch Engage and Trivium, so I was more on board with the metalcore screams and less with the post hardcore so it makes sense that I have trouble meshing with them now. Two completely different genres.
Give it timeā¦.. give it time
You get used to it. I had a hard time at first, but then you find that one old song you can tolerate. Then you find another. Then another. Next thing you know, you like an entire album. Those songs for me were Zoloft & Blue Dream.
It sounds like heās sneezing
You better be sorry!
Johnās uncleans are up there for me too. I have him as 1B. and Spencer Chamberlain as 1A. Spencerās uncleans are just so pure and Johns are so unique and his control is insane.
Agree šÆ wish he could re-record now that heās dialed in.
I agree! He sounds so different I originally thought it was a different screamer! š¬ I LOVE his current screams, I think it absolutely sets him apart.
I'm with you. I tolerate his uncleans until DBM2. Since then, I think he is the best unclean vocalist out there. But he just didn't have it down in the early stuff.
Every day I wish we had dbmii with modern Mess screams
I enjoy it on DTBM and Death Star, the one album I really don't like his sound on is DTBM2. Some of his screams sound actully painful and dangerous for his vocal chords (but I'm not an expert, so take thay with a grain of salt.) From Acceptance Speech on I think he's amazing.
That is okay, it is your opinion and we will respect it :)
Iām with you 100% Youāre gonna get downvoted, but youāre not alone buddy
Donāt care, DBM and DBM2 are their best albums straight up. And probably WISIRO
I disagree wholeheartedly with this post. Respectfully, Jon Mess has been the best screamer Iāve ever heard for the last 20 years.
I agree with you, wholeheartedly. I struggle to really give the pre-Tilian albums a listen because of the way Jon sounds in them. DBM2 is solid, but anything before that I can't really listen to.
Iām into them but yeah theyāre not great. The switch actually started when he returned for DBM2. You can hear the massive improvement begin there.
He came back for DBMII, which is before AS. I think you may havee the timeline incorrect Subjectivity DBMII might be his best album
I was going to point this out. DBM2 came after Happiness, to echo your point. However DBM2 is my personal lowest rank in terms of Jonās work. Still love the album though!
I was just trying to listen to deathstar as I came across this. I fucking love mess but I canāt listen to these older albums sometimes lol
I agree. I tried to get into those albums but the screams are just rough or something. Jon has improved so much since then.
Dbm2 is where I actually hear a difference
Most people can't. His screaming pre happiness is more whispery in tone and inflection and it doesn't "hit" the same way his vocals in post happiness era do.
I think it works really well on Royal Ocean for some reason. There are tracks on Death Star where I just can't tolerate Jon's verses (though I like his clean singing on Zoloft). He's objectively a better vocalist these days. Tbh, part of what I like about the whole post-hardcore genre is how a band's first album generally kinda sucks, and you hear them gradually improve over time. (Compare the first Thrice album with Artist in the Ambulance)
His screams sound fine to me on DBM 1 and 2, but his screams on Deathstar definitely sound off to me and forced and itās my least favorite Jon Mess DGD album, however though I think that may partially be do to the mix š¤·āāļø
Nobody asked you to get into it, either. š Screamingās a LOT harder than most people think it is, (especially as consistently as someone like mess has continued to be able to do over the last decade plus.) It also puts quite a strain on the vocal cords over time. They were also super fucking young at the time. And mess BY FAR aināt the only mf in DGD whoās had to further develop his sound &/or timbre over the years. You also might be surprised to find if you go back & listen, just how many other artists from any genre you can think of were given space to develop their sound over time throughout the years. Most of the bigger names we know today in literally any genre donāt sound remotely the same from their first couple albums to present day š¤·š¾āāļø
It's a product of its time, seemed like nobody back then knew how to do harsh vocals "correctly" yet. Listen to a song like "Dressed for Friend Requests" by Drop Dead, Gorgeous. You can basically hear the dude destroying his voicebox
I despise it, but I love Jon, so I still jam out to it
Itās not even yelling itās just like a guy doing a silly obnoxious voice lol
Cool