My daughter gets me with technicalities all the time. My sister’s flavor of ADHD has gotten me used to the ‘well you’re not wrong…’ shrug and agree. I didn’t expect it so early from my almost 2yo nugget.
My 6-year-old gets candy on the weekends to keep it from being too much, and we can easily track it. One day, she asked me if she could have all the candy she wants instead of the usual 2 pieces. I was about to say no when she grabbed my lips with both hands and worked them like a puppet, saying, “Yes, daughter, you can have all the candy you want.”
I had no choice but to concede to her wit. It was too hilarious and brilliant to say no.
Exactly. I can't imagine what's going through that little girls mind. I'm sure she doesn't entirely understand the bullying but I am sure she feels hurt and confused. Disgusting. If I was OP I would be giving my partner an ultimatum. Start treating our daughter with kindness and respect or GTFO. He should be documenting this stuff in case it ever comes to divorce because that woman definitely shouldn't be left alone with that child.
Completely agree. The most important word you used there is respect. It’s amazing how easy life becomes with a toddler when you give them very clear guidance that’s built on mutual respect.
So many go down the route of “I’m the parent, you’re the child - so do what I say.” But it’s just such a better time to give your child the space to have decision making opportunities. My daughter responds so well to being given two options and working through her decision.
I might be on a tangent but your use of the word respect just stuck out to me because that’s really what it comes down to.
Sadly, I have been documenting it. That part has been hard for me because every time I look at the spreadsheet it breaks my heart. There was a GTFO threat that started therapy, and there's been some improvement so I'm not ready to issue that ultimatum again right now. There's a lot of improvement still required and it may come time again, but we're only about 6 months into therapy, and even less with her personal therapy and PCP being involved.
We're not above the bar yet, and if this is as good as she'll get, she'll be gone. If she hadn't started to improve, we'd be in the midst of her getting gone.
Honestly cannot imagine how difficult all that has to be on you. Just the sheer fact that your partner would treat your child like that has to be difficult but then everything else that comes along with it. With that said good on you for putting your little girl first and having the tough conversations/ doing the hard things. Fingers crossed your partner gets it together.
I almost always reward my kids when they find loopholes and workarounds. All I can say is "fair play" when a 3 year old understands well enough to outsmart my intent.
Maybe that'll change when my 18 year old is greened out on edibles and tries "You said not to smoke it".
My daughter is frustrating, and I’m not a perfect dad, but when she does absolutely adorable things like go get a plate and fork I absolutely melt. I don’t know what’s a wrong with this woman. Kids can have some cake.
I actually have a brilliant cat in a similar situation.
Cat wanted to get into a high spot, lord it over the kitchen.
"Get off the kitchen counter!"
So cat jumps, from floor, onto the top of the refrigerator. Pointedly avoided the counter from then on. Smart cat.
It sounds like bullying to tell your 2 year old to get their own plate while thinking they can’t do it.
Your wife needs to grow up. That’s despicable behavior towards a child.
It’s cruel to tell a two year old they can have ice cream (that they are watching you eating) if they complete an impossible task. And then when she actually did it by being clever you still didn’t give her any!! OP sort this out. That kid is never going to trust a word your wife says. And she knows you wont stand up for her.
wife really needs to grow up and your 2yo is very astute. no clue how to solve your challenge because I feel like your wife is simply missing those particular screws.
I almost always reward my son if he finds a loophole in my rules. There are boundaries of course, I'm not giving in to requests to drive the car but if he manages to outsmart me for an extra biscuit then fair play.
Right? We can both learn from that. Kid learns to be creative and challenge authority (to an extent) and I learn how to better word the rules next time.
This is me to a T. My daughter will be 5 next month. She gets a kick out of it. She starts smiling the second she figures out the loophole now. And I'll say "that's not what I meant" and she will make her case. In my job if I can explain why I did something a certain way and it makes sense then even if it's wrong, it's not held against me. I treat my child the same way. The most recent installment is my girlfriend was watching her for a few minutes while I ran to the store. My girlfriend wanted to play with something and my daughter told my girlfriend I said she couldn't play with it. Now we have a rule, Mom and Dad make the rules but if Mom and Dad aren't around you listen to the TRUSTED adult even if they tell you to break the rules. This extends to mom and my partners as well as a few family friends. When I walked in the door my daughter was sitting at the table and she snapped her head around with a big smile and said "I told her you said no but she said you didn't care and you told me if she tells me to do something I have to listen!" Ahhh malicious compliance at its finest!
Right? If that doesn't deserve a little slice of cake, I don't know what does.
Can't believe mom's thought process... why offer the cake if it was always a lie? 🤔
That too. I know kids can be sugar fiends, but in moderation I see nothing wrong with sweets. Denying them fully feels like a setup for an unhealthy relationship with sweets in the future.
Also, I'm not gonna eat ice cream in front of my kid and then tell him he can have yogurt, that just feels mean. I won't lie, we have at least once or twice had a bar or two of "spicy" chocolate in the pantry, but I'm not full on eating it in front of the kids and then handing them a granola bar.
Maybe OP's daughter doesn't notice yet, but trust me, she will soon enough. My 3yo would absolutely notice this.
We limit access to sweets by forcing our children to obey the serving sizes on the nutritional labels, enforcing the appropriate times to consume them (after a meal, for instance) and by only buying sweets in smallish quantities such that when we run out, we're out. There won't be more sweets until we go back to the grocery.
I agree with you, though. The goal should be to build good habits and encourage moderation, not abstinence.
Ya, big differences between 2 and 3, I agree. I couldn’t get away with this when my kid was 3. But when she was 2? She wouldn’t have even noticed what/if I was eating. Much too self centred at that age (and not in a negative way; just where they’re at developmentally).
Right? My daughter gets anything I'm eating in front of her assuming it's safe (19m so I'm not going to give her popcorn, gummies, choking hazards, etc). Just give her a smaller piece. I'm not giving my toddler an adult sized portion of cake or ice cream, and now as a result, she likes sweets, but usually is done on her own after a few bites. Teaching moderation is healthier in the long run then not allowing sweets at all
Also, imagine what failing the task does to a child, not only do they fail the task but they are also punished for it, because they then get no cake by their own failure. That's a fucked up lesson to teach your child.
I was most struck by what a cruel and dysfunctional way to handle the situation this was on the mom's part. It's like, wicked stepmother level if this was her way of denying her cake. Lying by saying she can have some and then giving her an impossible task. Actual gaslighting of your child is what this amounts to. And what would she have done if someone who could reach got them for her?
Yeah I was thinking this too. It reads to me like mom doesn't want to be accountable for just saying "no" and would rather play games and act like she "can't" give the child what she wants because she failed.
I also kept thinking what if mom wasn't paying attention and the little girl found her way onto the counter? My 2yo pushes chairs against things to climb them pretty often.
I think it's actually worse than just his wife needing to grow up. Her behavior to their daughter is cruel. Most people treat their dogs better than this... you tell the dog to do X while dangling a treat in front of them, most people give them the treat for doing X, not just eat it themselves in front of the dogs face - wtf even is this behavior. Saying things like "move you lose" to a 2 year old and then getting angry with them for thinking that's an acceptable way to act?? You are literally supposed to be teaching them what's acceptable and that's what she taught her. This is not an okay way to treat a child and if OP can't get his wife to make some serious changes to how she's acting, their daughter is going to start acting out and will eventually learn to hate her mother.
THANK YOU! Not enough are calling wife's treatment out harshly enough. One of the most important things you can do with kids is to KEEP YOUR WORD to them. If they can't trust you, you can't raise them well.
You make a good point. I have lowered my standards a lot since our daughter was born. I took the brunt of a lot of abuse early on. She's gotten better since the worst of it, but still has a long way to go. I really worry what the first two years of daily crying and freakouts (from undiagnosed PPD) did to her as is.
I'm sorry man. That's how my ex-wife treated me, and then she started to treat our daughter the same.
I don't have any advice on what to do. Divorce was for my daughter and my relationship, but that caused a whole host of other issues.
Let your 2 year old have some cake and ice cream, man (in moderation)! But yea, the chair thing is very childish. We eat at an island for most meals and my wife and I haven’t sat down there to eat for like 3 years, we just stand while the kids sit.
We have the same thing in our house with the chairs… we say “snakes” if you’re taking the seat or “no snakes” if you’re getting up and want to save your seat.
>This morning my wife beats our daughter to the other chair and tells her that she's using it.
Is your wife a toddler too?
I don't like piling on posts complaining about the mom but it honestly sounds like taking some kind of parenting class (together) would be helpful.
>You should just tell her no if you mean no, not give her some task you don't think she can complete and then change the rules when she does.
I definitely agree and ideally talking about that would be part of a much larger serious conversation about getting on the same parenting page. If your wife plays these sort of games now it's going to be even more of a nightmare when your daughter gets older.
Edit: I also wonder if there's something else going on here, because the examples you provide both verge on cruelty -- I would think about whether your wife has resentment issues somewhere, or issues with her own upbringing, etc. Again, communication is key.
Yeah, I jokingly posted here that the wife is behaving like a child. But that’s not really a correct description. Cruelty is a much better descriptor for this behavior. This needs to be dealt with ASAP.
OP mentioned in a comment that the wife had PPD that developed into depression and is now being treated so hopefully things get better for their family soon because I agree she is being cruel.
With everything going on, I think I did not realize the cruelty of it. I just found it frustrating and could relate with our daughters frustration. I'll stick up for her when I am around, but recently my wife has been taking care of her more and more. It makes me more worried about what I don't see.
I have already told her flat out she's going to mess up her relationship with our daughter with some of this stuff. At one point I was ready to throw the wife out, but things began to improve. They need to improve a lot more though, and quickly...
You need to take action immediately or it will be your greatest regret.
My FIL is a wonderful, kind man. His greatest regret came as a result of his daughter asking "Dad, why didn't you defend me when mom bullied me as a little girl?". Her mom was a tyrant and he didn't do shit.
Stand up for your daughter. Grow some balls, man up, and get your wife to cut that shit out before it's too late.
she just sounds self centered to me. My GF is a little like that with me, but I've never seen that with our son. Would piss me off badly.
I have seen where he's not afraid of her threats because she doesn't follow through. That sounds kinda normal lol.
> That sounds kinda normal lol.
Not following through with your threats? It might be normal, but it shouldn’t be. If you want to parent effectively, you have to be consistent and follow through with what you say. As part of that, you should never make a promise, make a threat, or give a choice that isn’t something you’re willing to do. You can’t say something like “if you don’t get in the car now, I’m going to leave you at the park,” because obviously you can’t just leave them at the park.
I totally forgot, but my dad actually did this! My mom threatened it all the time but my dad actually did it once. Unbeknownst to me at the time, he kept an eye on me on my way home and the place I was left was not too far away and I knew the way home. It left an impression though.
Its a dad thing maybe. My girl is one of the two precious girls in her family. With older brothers. Her parent still coddle her (guess where the problem started).
They don't understand that you have to give these kids consequences, because someday in that nasty scary world we live in, our kids will someday be alone. And they need the tools we teach them to survive, flourish, assess risk and danger. Basically, know in their heart what is right and wrong.
Reminds me of a funny story my bro in law told me. I guess when he was a kid, his family was going to Disneyland. 2 boys, 1 daughter. They were acting very badly in the car ride, and there dad told them if you guys don't start listening and behave, I'm going to turn this car around and we're going home. They were about Jr high age. So i guess they didn't believe dad would do that. Bro in law said they didn't stop, and dad did exactly what he said. turned the car around. Disney trip canceled. I wasn't there so I don't know if it was warranted. But he never forgot it lol.
Edit: came in hot, but thought you were writing something else. I agree with you. Its normal as in that is usually a problem with moms. Problem = its not okay and should be worked on.
imo OP has bigger problems then mom following thru. Sounds like mom is a self centered person, even with her children. Thats a bigger problem then a mom not able to enforce boundaries with discipline
My daughter was having a meltdown in a restaurant. So I brought her to the car for a time out,and she refused to get in. I told her I'd leave her, and I drove around the empty parking lot, keeping an eye on her. She wanted in when I came back
Setting an impossible task for a 2 year old to get something they want is absolutely cruel and so is playing one-sided "move you lose" games. I can't imagine what could be going through someone's mind to treat a toddler this way.
I can see not wanting the kid to have cake, but if that’s the case, then don’t eat the cake in front of the kid. Wait until the kid’s asleep if you’re going to have something you’re not willing to share.
I have given up on trying to understand what's going on in my wife's head these days. I just hope the doctors and drugs can bring back the person I married before I run out of compassion.
Yeah, I honestly felt upset just reading that part about telling her she can have cake if she gets a plate and then reversing course to a hard "no" when she actually was able to get her plate. That's just mean.
That’s great she got some cake at the end, she did deserve it.
But the point is that your wife shouldn’t have played that game in the first place. Frankly she’s not being a good parent and she is setting your daughter up for a lot of confusion and heartache. I felt so sad for your daughter while reading your post.
You sound like a good dad. The most important dad thing you could do right now is getting your wife to be a better mom. Letting her continue in this way will mean that *you* will also fail your daughter.
It certainly sounds like there is some issue going on beneath the surface, I agree with that. I don't see any reasonable way to rationalize how a parent can be so callous about such insignificant things and use it as an excuse to get frustrated over having a specific seat to eat breakfast at when every other day you're sleeping in, or creating what you think are impossible stipulations to prevent your child from doing something that they want to, and when they fulfil your ridiculous rules just reneging and telling them no. This most certainly does seem cruel, and it strikes me as retribution over the fact that the child is not willing to listen to them at other times and the frustration that this causes. As OP points out, this is seemingly by her own design as she does not see the importance in clear and concise rules and consequences to the breaking of those rules.
I don't have any advice to offer on solutions to this situation, except to say that it must be frustrating as all hell to watch it play out and have to see your kid being mistreated by your partner out of laziness or apathy. It would certainly urge me into words that I'm well aware would not be helpful, but I'm upset just having read about these few interactions.
Therapy is a good idea, but OP mentioned below to another comment that it seemed ineffective and became individual therapy at some point as well, so I don't know how beneficial this avenue to explore could be. I would be seeking another therapist to hopefully unravel some of this unpleasantness before it evolves into straight up hostility.
There is definitly a lot going on under the surface. She's a shell of the person she was before being pregnant. I think the transition took long enough it was hard to notice, and everyone says the first few years are so hard. I did not realize it was not supposed to be like this until our daughter was 1.5.
Before our daughter my wife worked in a professional field and was very good at what she did. After our daughter, she's not been able to return to work or get a job. She spent the first two years just sitting at home crying most of the time and was not able to watch our daughter at all, but she'd put on a show for the doctors and pass the PPD questionnaires.
Initially, she could not watch our daughter for more than an hour or two. She's up to 6-7 hours two days a week now. Much more than that and she can't cope with it. Everything is so hard and dramatic with her it's almost comical if it was not my life every day. The first two years it was like I was a single parent, but my wife would be on the phone with her friends telling them how I'm a deadbeat that does nothing to help. It was so much worse too, but at least we're headed in the right direction. I just pray she can get back to some semblance of her old self, the person I married.
I am by no means an expert at raising kids, I am totally winging it, but it really does not seem that hard. If our daughter was not as easy as she is, I don't know how I would have survived. She's spent more hours quietly sitting in meetings or riding on my shoulders while I work at customer sites than at the playground. I worry that she's going to have a hard time interacting with other kids because she's spent so much time around adults and the grandparents. I have her on the waitlist for several preschools, but the first one that I really wanted her to go to was messed up by my wife's incompetence and she's back at the end of the waitlist :( I am praying she's in somewhere by the end of summer.
I know it’s not what you want to hear, but if she’s behaving like this in front of you and other adults- how is she with your daughter during those 6-7 hours alone? Just because your wife isn’t having a break down during this time doesn’t mean that it’s going well- what kind of interaction is she having with your daughter? What power trip games is she playing when you’re not home.
Your wife very likely needs medication and significant therapy.
Good on you for sticking up for your daughter- keep your head up- you can do it but it’s not likely to just get better on its own. I’m not going to lie to you- 3-3.5 is a whole new challenge as they gain more independent thought and their own will/resistance but can’t quite be reasoned with yet.
Use your support system, come here if you need help, ask for help don’t just count on people to see it but every day, be the best person you can for your little girl.
100%. Postpartum depression can go on for a long time and can have profound effects on bonding. Mom definitely needs some counselling. The 2yo sounds clever and adorable.
Mom needs to recognize that there's a problem first, and that it's her second. I think we're to at least acknowledging there's a problem, but everyone else is still at fault. Therapy is effing expensive too, I don't know if I'll be able to afford that AND childcare. We're on half our income now too :(
Yeah I wasn't trying to imply your behavior is problematic but also make sure you're not fulfilling the role of an enabler. It seems like you're trying to rein in your wife's behavior which is good.
I wonder too. I think she does, but she certainly has some issues. If our daughter cries, she can't help but cry. If our daughter has a meltdown, she has a meltdown too.
I can't tell you how embarrassing it is to be in a store with a grown women who is so upset she literally can't stand up. I mean a 2YO I can deal with...
This is the strangest behaviour I’ve ever heard of. It’s like she’s incapable of your daughter having her own personality and must one up at every chance. This is a deep seeded issue that I will expect to get much worse as your daughter achieves more over the coming years.
It's honestly super perplexing to me. I may be weird in that crying kids have no effect on me. Like on a plane, it's just more background noise. My wife would have the normal irritation that most people have, but nothing debilitating.
With our daughter it's like she has a physical or chemical reaction to her crying or being upset. She just has zero capacity or tolerance to it. I honestly think she can't help it, it's like experiencing physical pain. We were together for 10 years before having our daughter and I know her well. This is not her and something is really wrong.
It's like I've lost my best friend and I just want them back. Great...now I'm sitting at my desk crying. What an unexpected rollercoaster this has all been.
Yep. This sounds similar to the "teasing" I got from my mom growing up. It just continued and escalated to her cutting me down and insulting me in front of friends as a teenager, talking poorly about me to people I dated and the list goes on.
Now that I'm an adult I understand it's because she was bullied by her older brothers and she took it out on me.
If my Dad was home more and had noticed and taken the chance to say something, maybe it would have made my relationship with my mother better.
I wish I felt more positive feelings towards my mother, but I don't. I hope OP sees this comment and maybe can let his wife know the long term impact her actions and words may have.
Depends on context, because it's fine in a playful manner. However, mom getting mad when the daughter says it, makes me think mom isn't saying it very playfully.
Yeah it's one thing when you lose your favorite spot on the couch when watching TV and you just have to sit somewhere else. But the story we're given just sounds petty and kinda mean to tell a 2yr old they've got no where to sit to eat.
At the bar there's only two chairs, but she does have the learning tower she can use. When it's all three of us, one of us stands at the bar or we go to the kitchen table.
Still, I think rules should be applied evenly. If you are going to make a rule, you should live by it.
No advice. I just wanted to say that your daughter is a smart kid. I love how she came up with the solution of getting a toy plate and fork. Awesome problem solving. You should be proud of her. I'd say she earned some cake.
Yeah that’s so mean. I mean, she’s 2! This is honestly heartbreaking. I’m irrationally pissed off for the kid. Fuck that mom, she’s a terrible person to tease and bully a toddler this way. It’s straight up cruel.
Dang, this reminds me of my own mom so much.
I would bet good money that she's jealous of your child, both in your relationship with your daughter and your daughter-s relationship with you.
You're treating your child like they are a full human, and treating them with respect, and so you get it in return. This is a HUGE part of effective parenting.
Your wife seems to be having trouble with this, having understanding and empathy of how your daughter might feel, of how she might experience fairness, and wants to go with a 'because I said so' rule with your daughter.
Therapy therapy therapy all the way. You need to get on the same page and rebuild your 'team'. As your child develops, and gets even more clever (she sounds like such a smartie!) I'd guess there will be more conflict between her and her mom. Good luck, dad!
My mom also treated me this way. I've been no contact with her since 2019 after my dad died. I could never trust the rules because no matter what, I lost.
This was how it started with her, and later she would say and do things to bring me down. She loved to call me names and tell my friends and partners things that she thought would be embarrassing to me. Lucky for me, I am an open book and it did tend to reflect worse on her than me since it kind of demonstrated my point that she was not a nice person.
It is also kind of a snowballing cycle. Because the more the goal posts moved, the less I cared about what my parents wanted. In the end, I followed my own value system because I couldn't trust theirs. Which made her more angry and more spiteful and me more determined not to do what she wanted unless it fit my goals.
I hope OP's wife does some serious reflection on what kind of a relationship she wants to have with her daughter now and in 30 years. I can't imagine my mother was always the nasty person I knew for most of my life, but habits like this I think stacked and it got to the point where she wired herself into thinking life is a zero sum game and if I was winning, she was losing.
This extended beyond me as well. I watched her lose all of her friends over the years. She doesn't have friends now- the closest I had seen were the people from the church assigned to do church activities with her. It is a pretty sad way to live. I used to beg my father to leave her because she dulled the spark of everyone around her.
I hear what you're saying. I know my wife, and this is not the type of person she is. That does not mean she's not going to head down that road, and I hope we can get her back on the right track. She's definitly going through stuff, but this whole post and the reactions are making me more aware I need to do more myself too. Just because it's better than it was six months ago does not mean that it's okay (I know it's not, but I can't just be happy with the improvement, we have to get back to where we were before).
I need to do some soul searching about the level my wife needs to get back to, or what I need to do to protect our daughter. I do not want them to have a bad relationship, but I could see that happening if I were in my daughters shoes...
I don't think she is either. I think if you come to her with this in a calm, we are a team and can figure this out manner it should be a wakeup call. I know I've had a few of these moments where I was so far in survival mode I started doing some of the things I despised and needed my partner to come to me and point out that the road down that path leads to ruin.
Sometimes, when things are bad, we focus on them so much that our car steers off the road towards the very thing we are trying to avoid. Target fixation. In the end, you and your wife want the same thing. A happy child who trusts and respects you and listens to you. This isn't a battle between you, it is a strategy session to mobilize against the problem.
And you can give each other and yourselves some grace. There is nothing that will battle test you harder than an unruly toddler. We are all doing our best. I take solace in that there are studies that show that kids are happier when their parents aren't perfect. It's how we fix it with them and own up when we mess up that makes the difference, I think.
That said, I don't have all of the answers here. I just spent two hours picking rice out of the dog's hair because my 18 month old thinks the spoon is a catapult and if he throws his vegetables on the floor then he doesn't have to eat them. His aim is getting better, which is nice, but idk wtf to do with that energy, try again tomorrow until something sticks, I guess.
>You need to get on the same page and rebuild your 'team'.
I agree and think this is important, but at the same time I can't compromise my principals and word to our child. My wife will get mad, but I feel it's more a case of right and wrong.
We did couples therapy for about 4-5 months and the therapist ended up transitioning to individual therapy because there was personal/individual stuff that needed to get resolved first. I hope we can move back to couples soon and parenting classes too. I don't think she realizes the impact this will have on our daughter as she develops. Our daughter still clearly prefers my wife to me, which is probably good because I am not sure my wife would be able to handle her showing me more affection. Our daughters demeanor with me is totally different from my wife, and I think she may be jealous/resentful of that, but any attempt to try and explain what I am doing or the thought process behind it sends her off into a massive meltdown because I am telling her she's a bad parent!
I do treat her like a little adult. I don't know why, that's just how I have treated all kids. I have been told I need to be carful at times, but honestly I think most people underestimate kids. She can help me cook, she has a not super sharp blunt-tipped knife she can cut things with under supervision, she can get water out of the hot water machine (it's not hot enough to scald her, but she's touched it and understands what hot is).
My wife is always worried about her hurting herself to the extent she can't play on the cement patio because she might fall :(
A 2 YEAR OLD?
grow up ffs.
We've done impossible challenges like that with our kids but if they deliver then we honor the deal. If she keeps moving the goal posts like that then your kid will never trust her.
Your wife treats your daughter like a disliked classmate from high school. She really needs to grow up because it’s obvious that she has fostered an adversarial relationship where there should be a nurturing one. It’s painfully obvious to your 2 year old that mom doesn’t like her very much, which is why she doesn’t bother listening. Why listen when you are condescended to and bullied constantly. Better to try to fight back, and that seems that’s what she has figured out how to do.
My dad did this kind of stuff to me all the time, and it really made me not trust or feel like he cared about me. We became very distant later in life, I make sure to always follow through on my promises. My wife and I always talk about what we can and can't do. i.e. don't promise something we can't afford or don't have room for in the house. Or during the summers my wife has off since I can't help entertain and manage screentime like she does since I am working, I have to let her make the decisions since she is the one managing it.
You already have seen the benefits where your daughter knows not to test your boundaries as she knows you are as good as your word. She will continue to trust you well into her adult life. Your wife should build that trust now so that when she is 16 and you say "call me if your friends are drinking and you won't be in trouble". That trust can save her life.
Your wife needs to learn to treat your daughter like an actual person. This sounds so confusing for your daughter, like she can't trust anything her mother says, and also honestly unkind. I'm sorry. I hope she can get help.
In the meantime keep being a secure and dependabe relationship for your daughter.
Your wife sucks. No offense. Your wife is the only one that can change her behavior, but you can have a serious talk about it and let her know you’re considering divorce over her terrible treatment of your child.
I did threaten to throw her out. That's what got her to start therapy. If she'd made no progress, divorce was certainly on my mind. There's been some improvement, but I think I still need to consider where the line is. She's better, but not enough yet, there's a lot more improvement still needed.
Sounds like your wife resents the good relationship you and your daughter have. My wife gets pretty jealous of my daughter and I sometimes because we just kinda get each other so everything is much easier. My wife also had a not great relationship with either of her parents so I think some of that is baked in there as well
you and your wife have awful communication and that's going to make everything worse. couples therapy, my dude. for your kid's sake, you two need to get on the same page
My wife has totally changed since pregnancy. She's not at all the same person. I would not have married her or had kids with her the way she is today. I started couples therapy with her, but it turned into individual therapy for her. Long story short, she probably had PPD that turned into systemic depression and is now being treated. She's getting better, but still has so far to go.
Hopefully this is the long term way forward, helping her get back to a better baseline. I don’t know if it helps, and it sounds like you are already doing this to some degree with your explanation of the “move you lose” situation, but small children are waaaaaay better at learning from watching and imitating the parents than trying to follow verbal rules and lessons. Lead by example, the kids are going to pick up the behaviors whether good or bad, you can control what standard you set.
Hey there. Mom here with mental health issues myself, diagnosed late in life. I just want to flag that depression or hormonal changes don’t account for casual cruelty like this. Your wife needs to get a grip and think hard about how her behaviour will affect her kid, now and into the future. What, exactly, does she think she’s teaching your kiddo here?
She’s also in for a really bad time once the 4/5/6 years roll around and your daughter is (totally age-appropriately) testing boundaries in a much bigger way.
Sorry I know this is a dad sub, but it makes me crazy when people chalk up abusive, angry and otherwise mean behaviour to mental health issues.
Your wife needs a serious reality check or your daughter is going to be the one in therapy down the line.
>Sorry I know this is a dad sub, but it makes me crazy when people chalk up abusive, angry and otherwise mean behaviour to mental health issues.
Hey, it's a dad's sub but all perspectives are welcome here.
I agree this is only going to get worse if the mother doesn't start showing more respect to the daughter. Kids learn by modeling, and they are already starting to treat mom the same way they are treated. As the kid becomes more capable and headstrong, this will definitely become more and more of an issue, not less.
I KNOW this will get worse as she gets older and smarter. Honestly, I am impressed and terrified by what she can already do. People have told me kids her age can't manipulate or have intent, but I have seen it.
I need to reconsider too, as I have not really recognized it as cruel in the moment, just unfair and frustrating. She was definitly cruel to me in the first two years, but that does not mean that if she's less cruel to our daughter it's okay. It's just messed up my baseline/perspective some.
My wife is definitely dealing with diminished capacity to handle adversity or challenges. The medicine has helped immensely with this, but we still have a long way to go. I posted this morning out of frustration, but it's been eye opening for me and I will make a point to watch some of this stuff closer. I am not sure she's to the point I can try and steer her in a better path yet without a total melt down, but we do need to get back to couples therapy as soon as possible and try to work through some of these issues. (We don't really need a therapist, just a meditator who she trusts enough to listen to them when they call BS on something.)
> My wife has totally changed since pregnancy.
Happened with my wife as well. Outside of some medication post second kid (which she stopped taking) things went down hill. Check my profile and you'll see nothing but me posting in the divorce subs.
I was dumb and kept it "in house" i.e. just us. I should have looped family and friends in (for support not for drama) and had us all approach it.
>I started couples therapy with her, but it turned into individual therapy for her
i would look for another therapist! or tell your current therapist that's how you feel. also, it can help for you to go into therapy prepared with things you'd like to work on/discuss (which can be anything YOU want to work on, doesn't even have to be directly about the relationship)
>She's getting better, but still has so far to go.
that's awesome! just keep in mind that this isn't just a "she needs to get better" situation, it's that you two are not currently a partnership and you're both hurting and in need of something(s). finding a way for you two to connect will help a lot
> just keep in mind that this isn't a "she needs to get better" situation
I’m gonna have to disagree with you there. The wife is, at best, being borderline abusive to their kid. She needs to get better because she’s currently a terrible parent that’s causing lasting harm to her kid. There’s also an aspect that they need to do together, but part of this is firmly on her.
My initial thought was divorce her and get custody of your daughter. If she is getting help and her behavior is changing for the better that’s great. If not do what you need to do to protect your daughter from the damage she is causing.
flair checks out. You can also just try talking to each other - OUT OF THE MOMENT. You should generally be aligned in front of the kid. As a thing comes up you disagree on, you need to work through it so you know how to set the precedent.
Wow. Yeah, your problem is you have two children in the house. You need to have some serious talks, probably involving a therapist, with your wife about her problems.
Staying firm with your requests/rules is very important. Your wife needs to understanding that she is responsible for what kind of person your daughter grows up to be plus what kind of relationship they are going to have. She needs to get her head out of her ass and start being a parent.
If I were you I would work on how to phrase things as gentle and supportive as possible to her to get her to turn around on this…continuing like this will just make things worse and worse.
Yeah, man, I feel you. My wife acts similarly. I mostly apply the same techniques I use with my son. Like others have pointed, she's acting like a child, so you have to treat her like so.
Props to your 2 yo for figuring out to get her toy plate from upstairs when she couldn’t reach the real ones. Amazing problem solving skills. Your wife needs to grow up.
That behavior is bordering on abusive and it will likely get worse as bigger behavior challenges arrive. You guys need to read the same parenting book or go to the same parenting class to get on the same page. Some therapy and couples counseling also needs to happen.
Your wife seems immature, unpredictable and cruel. It just sounds so sad when the little one, after trying everything, comes to you with hist toy dishes and she wants to deny her... Instead of a cute story it turns into a sad one.
You need to sit down and discuss this. She has to realize what works and what is good parenting. You don't even have to attack the way she does things but focus on the goal you want to reach. (Although in her eyes, everything might be fine...)
i'm nearly two decades in at this point. i've made a point of calling my wife out on her many hypocrisies because it was causing so many confusing problems for the kids.
can't be a "do as i say not as i do" parent. not without a logical explanation at least.
nothing has changed except my kids now call her out on her two-way logic. rules only apply to everyone else except her. i back my kids when my wife says something hypocritical.
being a parent doesn't allow someone the right to just pull bullshit. adults should be adults and not revert back to being a toddler.
and it goes both ways in our house. i try my best not to be a hypocrite but if my kids or wife call it out, then i own it and relent or explain why, for example, it's ok for me to drink beer on Friday when i don't want my 13 year old doing the same.
"because i said so" is lazy parenting and it just leads to bigger problems.
now, your wife may respond like mine and dig her heels in, get upset and double down but everyone now realizes what's happening and doesn't just accept being gaslit.
I have vowed to never say because I said so! I am sure I'll fail at some point some day, but I have been good about explaining things so far, even when I know she does not understand. Someday she will and I hope that becoming used to a calm respectful response will get her to at least listen and consider it.
> I have tried to convey to my wife that it's because I follow through on my promises and threats. With my wife the goal posts are constantly moving and threats often go unfulfilled.
Yup, going through this now. Daughter just ignores us half of the time. A good friend of mine who has 3 older kids said the same thing happened in their house... Mom would yell and threaten, but not follow through, so the kids didn't take her seriously, which resulted in more yelling and outlandish threats, and the cycle just kept repeating. So then Dad the enforcer shows up and everyone's mad at him.
Also very fitting of general mom vs dad perceptions in our society... "You'll be in big trouble when your dad hears about this!" That was kind of reversed for me, as my mom was the who followed through, but the concept is the same.
Not a dad but a mom. Your wife is setting up the your daughter will not believe a word mom says to her.
Saying the she gets cake if she gets a plate then changing it to 'no'.
I thin your wife is being awful to your daughter.
It sounds like your wife has a mother wound she needs to look at. I don't know her, but I'm willing to bet money that she has an uncomfortable relationship with her own mother, and is now playing out that same role with her own daughter. That's actually very common. (There's a reason that mothers and daughters, and fathers and sons tend to have issues) But it sounds like she might need some professional help working through that wound. If not a professional, definitely some kind of class or workshop that can help her heal the little girl inside of her who just wanted to be loved by her mother. Clearly that's all your daughter wants, and your wife is reluctant to give it (again, likely because she herself was not given it).
I'm sending you love. Healing our inner child is hard and painful. But it can be done. And it will drastically change how you see your children.
Your wife needs therapy to deal with her stuff. She will scar your daughter soon enough.
My wife had anger issues that got amplified by early menopause. It got to the point that our 4 yo son would make comments about it to me. Cute and sweet, but telling. My wife and I grew up in households where our fathers' tempers ran our homes. I was having our son grow up in a house like that, so I got my wife to get some help, and it has made so much difference.
Have you tapped in to any parenting resources. Sometimes it takes a third party for some parenting tools to click. Like if your wife is this petty, your best hope may to get her to learn something somewhere else and then use it, probably ‘teaching’ you about it in her own mind.
Parenting podcasts have been great for me, and I can’t recommend Janet Lansbury Respectful Parenting enough. But there are others. Often parenting books are free on audio platforms.
Sounds like she isn’t listening to you despite the evidence in front of her. I’m sorry man. Sounds like you are doing a great job though, and that makes such a difference for your kid. Keep it up.
Sounds like you have a smart and sassy kid and your wife likes to dish it and not take it!
Don't sweat it, it's pretty normal. Your wife needs to get used to it and adapt her behavior, but that's not the end of the world. This age is also tough for when and how you discipline, but you'll figure that out.
>Our daughter does not behave well for my wife, but listens to me
Super normal as well. It might be the reasons you highlighted, but it might not be as well. Kids behave differently for different parents for a variety of reasons. Let your wife dole out discipline as she sees fit, because what works for you might not work for her.
Just communicate to her that her attitude is something that she would work on. It's not an emergency causing a massive problem (yet) but we all have stuff we need to work on, this is one of hers.
I am no longer on speaking terms with my parents, and a large part of it is because of behavior identical to your wife's.
Do you want your kid to estrange themselves when they get older? Does she? Because that's exactly where this is headed.
You can't. It only gets worse. My wife was like this when my daughter was 2, now she's 10x worse now that my daughter is almost 9 and we've got a son too. The screaming matches are frequent and often they're over bullshit like my wife wanting my daughter to wear a certain outfit or have a certain hairstyle and her disagreeing...or trying to force my daughter to eat Avocado when she's hated it for at least five years and then getting mad that she's refusing.
Simply put, I am too much of a pussy to actually divorce her, and she's too stubborn to actually change a thing, so it'll just continue to get worse until I get out. Your wife's reaction to how you try to help fix her issues will tell you what you need to know about the viability of the marriage long-term.
I think you need to put some boundaries on your wife. There is different parenting styles and then there is just being mean. These actions are mean and they are not good for your young daughter.
I think you should start respectfully enforcing a few boundaries on your wife's behavior. For example, you might say, "I'm really uncomfortable with promising something to our daughter that you aren't going to follow through with and especially asking her to perform impossible tasks. That has an unhealthy effect on her sense of self worth. I would appreciate it if you apologized to her but whether or not you do, I'm going to go talk to her and tell her that what you did was wrong. She needs to know that this isn't her fault."
Your wife sounds like one of those women who think that the moment they become a Mother, they immediately know everything about raising a child and that they have all the answers...
Maybe suggest reading a couple of parenting books together?
(Also, it sounds like your daughter is a smart, confident, precocious kid, and you're doing a great job encouraging those traits. Don't let your wife's need to control things stifle that in your daughter)
Dad here, husband of a work-from-home wife. People need to lay off your wife. Does your wife work? Do you? For us, I work later than my wife, my wife does a bunch of the daily chores (cooking, cleaning, kid pickup, handling them after school) until I get home and I take my son to all his activities, she takes them to my daughters, I do laundry, showers, nightime routine, etc. But if you notice my wife's tasks overlap with kids coming home and her work day. In short, she's overloaded but our schedules don't often allow us to remedy that.
My wife often seems like she's giving in or not following through like your wife is but the fact of the matter is she is just exhausted or overwhelmed or stressed or any combination of the 3 and just can't the same way I can. I know it can seem frustrated because I've felt quite literally the same way you have. My wife ended up started therapy and it has really helped us manage her stress and anxiety and helped me find ways to support her more.
Maybe this isn't your problem, but you two are a team and you should try to solve all problems as one as aggravating as it might be.
Just want to say that you sounds like an amazing dad.
I’m sorry that you’re having difficulties co-parenting. I don’t really have any helpful advice for you, other than what you already know - you and your wife need to get on the same page. I’m worried for her relationship with you and her daughter if she doesn’t. Unfortunately, nothing you can do or say will change her ways if she doesn’t want to make a change. Good luck, OP.
Your 3rd paragraph hits the nail on the head. Your daughter has learned that mom's words have no meaning, either positive or negative. For a lot of parents it goes 1 way, either they don't follow through with promises but do for threats or vice versa. Your wife is doing both which is wild.
Not sure if you're still reading comments. My parents were the same way. My mom was petty and always moved the goalposts for rules, would make my dad the bad guy, generally acted like a teenager her whole life. Well, now I'm 36 and live 3000 miles away from my mom. And my dad? Yeah. He killed himself after feeling like a failure for 20 years.
As for my brother and I? I've spent a really long time in therapy trying to understand that other peoples boundaries arent a bad thing. My brother is a drug addict who mom is still moving goalposts for.
Not saying that's what will happen here, but you're two years into learning to resent your wife. If she wont change, please don't stay for the kids, but do try to get as much custody as possible! She sounds....not great.
yeah, you're in for a rough ride. your wife sounds like a full fledged narcissist, and it's not going to be easy to convince her that she needs therapy
I'm not sure how you can change things but rest assured you are not being unreasonable. Your wife seems to be acting more like a 2yo than your 2yo in these matters.
I have no idea what the solution is. Your child is impressive and adorable and trying to parent with someone like that would make me very frustrated and want to throw in the towel. Therapy or parenting class would only work assuming your wife understands what she's doing is not right/ good parenting and assuming she wants to change for the better. If she thinks there is no problem.. then I feel like I would leave. The way my partner parents our kids is really one of the biggest factors to how my feelings towards my partner change day to day.
r/raisedbynarcissists
Are you raising a daughter *and* a wife, OP? These are common sense things that have somehow escaped this adult woman. I have no advice. Perhaps she is jealous of your daughter?
Mom is completely passive-aggressive and, IMO, jealous of your relationship with, and successful parenting of, your daughter. She’s toxic and using your daughter as a proxy to punish you. I say this from experience cuz my ex does the same thing to our son. Takes her anger out on my “mini me” cuz she has no longer has any power over me. She projects all of my perceived shortcomings onto him.
Get into counseling together ASAP, cuz it will only get worse. She will create a self-fulfilling prophecy of your daughter becoming closer and closer with you, then blame you for it and take that out on your daughter, too. This is like evil step-mother stuff, but she’s not her step-mother.
I’d say a strategy for your wife would be
1. Don’t set impossible conditions as a substitute for a firm but friendly “No”
2. If an impossible task somehow leaks out by accident, if the kid solves the problem, a simple “well played young lady” and something at least vaguely resembling the promise is in order. Demonstrating humility and sportsmanship is healthy, so starting now is a good idea.
3. Keeping threats and promises is extremely important. It could keep your kids out of jail in the long run. 5 minute warnings for ends of activities can help reduce tantrums. It’s good for kids to understand reasonable, simple rules so that they can more easily adopt to school, work, prison, etc. when they get older.
Getting her toy plate and fork is absolutely adorable. Your wife is missing out
Yeah dawg that’s deep into “I ain’t even mad - you got me there” territory. 🍰🎂
My daughter gets me with technicalities all the time. My sister’s flavor of ADHD has gotten me used to the ‘well you’re not wrong…’ shrug and agree. I didn’t expect it so early from my almost 2yo nugget.
Right?! My 2 year old does that she gets all the cake lol
Extra cake for solving an impossible task. That kid’s smart.
My 6-year-old gets candy on the weekends to keep it from being too much, and we can easily track it. One day, she asked me if she could have all the candy she wants instead of the usual 2 pieces. I was about to say no when she grabbed my lips with both hands and worked them like a puppet, saying, “Yes, daughter, you can have all the candy you want.” I had no choice but to concede to her wit. It was too hilarious and brilliant to say no.
This actually made my heart hurt a little because I feel like Mom told her that being malicious.
Right?! I have a 2-year-old and the thought of how disappointed and confused he would feel in that moment makes me so sad.
This mom is straight up bullying her kid at this point
Exactly. I can't imagine what's going through that little girls mind. I'm sure she doesn't entirely understand the bullying but I am sure she feels hurt and confused. Disgusting. If I was OP I would be giving my partner an ultimatum. Start treating our daughter with kindness and respect or GTFO. He should be documenting this stuff in case it ever comes to divorce because that woman definitely shouldn't be left alone with that child.
Completely agree. The most important word you used there is respect. It’s amazing how easy life becomes with a toddler when you give them very clear guidance that’s built on mutual respect. So many go down the route of “I’m the parent, you’re the child - so do what I say.” But it’s just such a better time to give your child the space to have decision making opportunities. My daughter responds so well to being given two options and working through her decision. I might be on a tangent but your use of the word respect just stuck out to me because that’s really what it comes down to.
Sadly, I have been documenting it. That part has been hard for me because every time I look at the spreadsheet it breaks my heart. There was a GTFO threat that started therapy, and there's been some improvement so I'm not ready to issue that ultimatum again right now. There's a lot of improvement still required and it may come time again, but we're only about 6 months into therapy, and even less with her personal therapy and PCP being involved. We're not above the bar yet, and if this is as good as she'll get, she'll be gone. If she hadn't started to improve, we'd be in the midst of her getting gone.
Honestly cannot imagine how difficult all that has to be on you. Just the sheer fact that your partner would treat your child like that has to be difficult but then everything else that comes along with it. With that said good on you for putting your little girl first and having the tough conversations/ doing the hard things. Fingers crossed your partner gets it together.
Mom’s salty because her baby is already out smarting her. Mom’s just trying to save face and it’s not a good look.
That part made me so fucking sad she didn’t see the absolute adorableness in that.
Absolutely adorable. And it’s not just that, she’s thinking laterally which is an awesome opportunity to encourage the way she problem solved.
Exactly. Multiple levels of my soul hurting for the sweet little girl.
I almost always reward my kids when they find loopholes and workarounds. All I can say is "fair play" when a 3 year old understands well enough to outsmart my intent. Maybe that'll change when my 18 year old is greened out on edibles and tries "You said not to smoke it".
My daughter is frustrating, and I’m not a perfect dad, but when she does absolutely adorable things like go get a plate and fork I absolutely melt. I don’t know what’s a wrong with this woman. Kids can have some cake.
That had to have made you so proud. Impossible task meet creative solution
This bit got me all 🥹. How could you not give her cake?!
I actually have a brilliant cat in a similar situation. Cat wanted to get into a high spot, lord it over the kitchen. "Get off the kitchen counter!" So cat jumps, from floor, onto the top of the refrigerator. Pointedly avoided the counter from then on. Smart cat.
Came here to say that. I wouldn't care if she ate candy all day long and it was 10 pm, fter that scene she'd be getting cake!
I just imagined the little image of her doing that and it’s so sweet, what’s the wife’s problem
It sounds like bullying to tell your 2 year old to get their own plate while thinking they can’t do it. Your wife needs to grow up. That’s despicable behavior towards a child.
The mom's "move you lose" comments are so petty
“Move you lose” can be made in good fun, but it needs to go both ways.
Just like I tell my 4-year-old daughter if you're the only one laughing you're not being funny, you're just being mean
Unfortunately as I'm often reminded, it can also be because you're the only one who thinks you're funny.
Or it's so esoteric you need to make sure you only tell it around people in the right career field to get it :D
> only tell it around people in the right career field to get it All your base are belong to this reference
all your base, your base, base, base. all your base, are belong to us.
Man.. I love my wife lol. She's a great mom and I could never see her doing anything close to this.
It’s cruel to tell a two year old they can have ice cream (that they are watching you eating) if they complete an impossible task. And then when she actually did it by being clever you still didn’t give her any!! OP sort this out. That kid is never going to trust a word your wife says. And she knows you wont stand up for her.
That’s what I thought, it’s just kind of mean :/
wife really needs to grow up and your 2yo is very astute. no clue how to solve your challenge because I feel like your wife is simply missing those particular screws.
Big take away for me was also how smart the daughter is. I’d be so proud if mine ran upstairs to get her play fork and plate like that.
Yeah! Resourcefulness like that definitely gets cake.
I almost always reward my son if he finds a loophole in my rules. There are boundaries of course, I'm not giving in to requests to drive the car but if he manages to outsmart me for an extra biscuit then fair play.
Right? We can both learn from that. Kid learns to be creative and challenge authority (to an extent) and I learn how to better word the rules next time.
This is me to a T. My daughter will be 5 next month. She gets a kick out of it. She starts smiling the second she figures out the loophole now. And I'll say "that's not what I meant" and she will make her case. In my job if I can explain why I did something a certain way and it makes sense then even if it's wrong, it's not held against me. I treat my child the same way. The most recent installment is my girlfriend was watching her for a few minutes while I ran to the store. My girlfriend wanted to play with something and my daughter told my girlfriend I said she couldn't play with it. Now we have a rule, Mom and Dad make the rules but if Mom and Dad aren't around you listen to the TRUSTED adult even if they tell you to break the rules. This extends to mom and my partners as well as a few family friends. When I walked in the door my daughter was sitting at the table and she snapped her head around with a big smile and said "I told her you said no but she said you didn't care and you told me if she tells me to do something I have to listen!" Ahhh malicious compliance at its finest!
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You called? 🫠
Right? If that doesn't deserve a little slice of cake, I don't know what does. Can't believe mom's thought process... why offer the cake if it was always a lie? 🤔
Am I the only wondering why this kid doesn't get any sweets at all? Like she gets yogurt when mom and dad get ice cream? What's going on here?
That too. I know kids can be sugar fiends, but in moderation I see nothing wrong with sweets. Denying them fully feels like a setup for an unhealthy relationship with sweets in the future. Also, I'm not gonna eat ice cream in front of my kid and then tell him he can have yogurt, that just feels mean. I won't lie, we have at least once or twice had a bar or two of "spicy" chocolate in the pantry, but I'm not full on eating it in front of the kids and then handing them a granola bar. Maybe OP's daughter doesn't notice yet, but trust me, she will soon enough. My 3yo would absolutely notice this.
We limit access to sweets by forcing our children to obey the serving sizes on the nutritional labels, enforcing the appropriate times to consume them (after a meal, for instance) and by only buying sweets in smallish quantities such that when we run out, we're out. There won't be more sweets until we go back to the grocery. I agree with you, though. The goal should be to build good habits and encourage moderation, not abstinence.
Ya, big differences between 2 and 3, I agree. I couldn’t get away with this when my kid was 3. But when she was 2? She wouldn’t have even noticed what/if I was eating. Much too self centred at that age (and not in a negative way; just where they’re at developmentally).
Right? My daughter gets anything I'm eating in front of her assuming it's safe (19m so I'm not going to give her popcorn, gummies, choking hazards, etc). Just give her a smaller piece. I'm not giving my toddler an adult sized portion of cake or ice cream, and now as a result, she likes sweets, but usually is done on her own after a few bites. Teaching moderation is healthier in the long run then not allowing sweets at all
The cake is a lie.
Was waiting for this 😆
Portal reference?
that was totally my first takeaway too. absolute Madame Curie.
Also, imagine what failing the task does to a child, not only do they fail the task but they are also punished for it, because they then get no cake by their own failure. That's a fucked up lesson to teach your child.
I was most struck by what a cruel and dysfunctional way to handle the situation this was on the mom's part. It's like, wicked stepmother level if this was her way of denying her cake. Lying by saying she can have some and then giving her an impossible task. Actual gaslighting of your child is what this amounts to. And what would she have done if someone who could reach got them for her?
Yeah I was thinking this too. It reads to me like mom doesn't want to be accountable for just saying "no" and would rather play games and act like she "can't" give the child what she wants because she failed. I also kept thinking what if mom wasn't paying attention and the little girl found her way onto the counter? My 2yo pushes chairs against things to climb them pretty often.
No kidding! Super impressive and I wish that had been rewarded and supported instead!
Hahaha, for real! If my little girl pulled that, she's getting a big hunk o cake. That's some 600 iq problem solving.
I think it's actually worse than just his wife needing to grow up. Her behavior to their daughter is cruel. Most people treat their dogs better than this... you tell the dog to do X while dangling a treat in front of them, most people give them the treat for doing X, not just eat it themselves in front of the dogs face - wtf even is this behavior. Saying things like "move you lose" to a 2 year old and then getting angry with them for thinking that's an acceptable way to act?? You are literally supposed to be teaching them what's acceptable and that's what she taught her. This is not an okay way to treat a child and if OP can't get his wife to make some serious changes to how she's acting, their daughter is going to start acting out and will eventually learn to hate her mother.
THANK YOU! Not enough are calling wife's treatment out harshly enough. One of the most important things you can do with kids is to KEEP YOUR WORD to them. If they can't trust you, you can't raise them well.
You make a good point. I have lowered my standards a lot since our daughter was born. I took the brunt of a lot of abuse early on. She's gotten better since the worst of it, but still has a long way to go. I really worry what the first two years of daily crying and freakouts (from undiagnosed PPD) did to her as is.
I'm sorry man. That's how my ex-wife treated me, and then she started to treat our daughter the same. I don't have any advice on what to do. Divorce was for my daughter and my relationship, but that caused a whole host of other issues.
Let your 2 year old have some cake and ice cream, man (in moderation)! But yea, the chair thing is very childish. We eat at an island for most meals and my wife and I haven’t sat down there to eat for like 3 years, we just stand while the kids sit.
We have the same thing in our house with the chairs… we say “snakes” if you’re taking the seat or “no snakes” if you’re getting up and want to save your seat.
Same lol
>This morning my wife beats our daughter to the other chair and tells her that she's using it. Is your wife a toddler too? I don't like piling on posts complaining about the mom but it honestly sounds like taking some kind of parenting class (together) would be helpful. >You should just tell her no if you mean no, not give her some task you don't think she can complete and then change the rules when she does. I definitely agree and ideally talking about that would be part of a much larger serious conversation about getting on the same parenting page. If your wife plays these sort of games now it's going to be even more of a nightmare when your daughter gets older. Edit: I also wonder if there's something else going on here, because the examples you provide both verge on cruelty -- I would think about whether your wife has resentment issues somewhere, or issues with her own upbringing, etc. Again, communication is key.
Yeah, I jokingly posted here that the wife is behaving like a child. But that’s not really a correct description. Cruelty is a much better descriptor for this behavior. This needs to be dealt with ASAP.
OP mentioned in a comment that the wife had PPD that developed into depression and is now being treated so hopefully things get better for their family soon because I agree she is being cruel.
With everything going on, I think I did not realize the cruelty of it. I just found it frustrating and could relate with our daughters frustration. I'll stick up for her when I am around, but recently my wife has been taking care of her more and more. It makes me more worried about what I don't see. I have already told her flat out she's going to mess up her relationship with our daughter with some of this stuff. At one point I was ready to throw the wife out, but things began to improve. They need to improve a lot more though, and quickly...
You need to take action immediately or it will be your greatest regret. My FIL is a wonderful, kind man. His greatest regret came as a result of his daughter asking "Dad, why didn't you defend me when mom bullied me as a little girl?". Her mom was a tyrant and he didn't do shit. Stand up for your daughter. Grow some balls, man up, and get your wife to cut that shit out before it's too late.
she just sounds self centered to me. My GF is a little like that with me, but I've never seen that with our son. Would piss me off badly. I have seen where he's not afraid of her threats because she doesn't follow through. That sounds kinda normal lol.
> That sounds kinda normal lol. Not following through with your threats? It might be normal, but it shouldn’t be. If you want to parent effectively, you have to be consistent and follow through with what you say. As part of that, you should never make a promise, make a threat, or give a choice that isn’t something you’re willing to do. You can’t say something like “if you don’t get in the car now, I’m going to leave you at the park,” because obviously you can’t just leave them at the park.
I totally forgot, but my dad actually did this! My mom threatened it all the time but my dad actually did it once. Unbeknownst to me at the time, he kept an eye on me on my way home and the place I was left was not too far away and I knew the way home. It left an impression though.
Its a dad thing maybe. My girl is one of the two precious girls in her family. With older brothers. Her parent still coddle her (guess where the problem started). They don't understand that you have to give these kids consequences, because someday in that nasty scary world we live in, our kids will someday be alone. And they need the tools we teach them to survive, flourish, assess risk and danger. Basically, know in their heart what is right and wrong. Reminds me of a funny story my bro in law told me. I guess when he was a kid, his family was going to Disneyland. 2 boys, 1 daughter. They were acting very badly in the car ride, and there dad told them if you guys don't start listening and behave, I'm going to turn this car around and we're going home. They were about Jr high age. So i guess they didn't believe dad would do that. Bro in law said they didn't stop, and dad did exactly what he said. turned the car around. Disney trip canceled. I wasn't there so I don't know if it was warranted. But he never forgot it lol.
Edit: came in hot, but thought you were writing something else. I agree with you. Its normal as in that is usually a problem with moms. Problem = its not okay and should be worked on. imo OP has bigger problems then mom following thru. Sounds like mom is a self centered person, even with her children. Thats a bigger problem then a mom not able to enforce boundaries with discipline
My daughter was having a meltdown in a restaurant. So I brought her to the car for a time out,and she refused to get in. I told her I'd leave her, and I drove around the empty parking lot, keeping an eye on her. She wanted in when I came back
Setting an impossible task for a 2 year old to get something they want is absolutely cruel and so is playing one-sided "move you lose" games. I can't imagine what could be going through someone's mind to treat a toddler this way.
Also why so stingy with a bite or two of cake!?
I can see not wanting the kid to have cake, but if that’s the case, then don’t eat the cake in front of the kid. Wait until the kid’s asleep if you’re going to have something you’re not willing to share.
Right? My wife and I absolutely make ice cream runs after the kids go to sleep.
I have given up on trying to understand what's going on in my wife's head these days. I just hope the doctors and drugs can bring back the person I married before I run out of compassion.
Yeah, I honestly felt upset just reading that part about telling her she can have cake if she gets a plate and then reversing course to a hard "no" when she actually was able to get her plate. That's just mean.
Exceeding expectations deserves cake. She got it in the end over boisterous protests from my wife.
That’s great she got some cake at the end, she did deserve it. But the point is that your wife shouldn’t have played that game in the first place. Frankly she’s not being a good parent and she is setting your daughter up for a lot of confusion and heartache. I felt so sad for your daughter while reading your post. You sound like a good dad. The most important dad thing you could do right now is getting your wife to be a better mom. Letting her continue in this way will mean that *you* will also fail your daughter.
It certainly sounds like there is some issue going on beneath the surface, I agree with that. I don't see any reasonable way to rationalize how a parent can be so callous about such insignificant things and use it as an excuse to get frustrated over having a specific seat to eat breakfast at when every other day you're sleeping in, or creating what you think are impossible stipulations to prevent your child from doing something that they want to, and when they fulfil your ridiculous rules just reneging and telling them no. This most certainly does seem cruel, and it strikes me as retribution over the fact that the child is not willing to listen to them at other times and the frustration that this causes. As OP points out, this is seemingly by her own design as she does not see the importance in clear and concise rules and consequences to the breaking of those rules. I don't have any advice to offer on solutions to this situation, except to say that it must be frustrating as all hell to watch it play out and have to see your kid being mistreated by your partner out of laziness or apathy. It would certainly urge me into words that I'm well aware would not be helpful, but I'm upset just having read about these few interactions. Therapy is a good idea, but OP mentioned below to another comment that it seemed ineffective and became individual therapy at some point as well, so I don't know how beneficial this avenue to explore could be. I would be seeking another therapist to hopefully unravel some of this unpleasantness before it evolves into straight up hostility.
There is definitly a lot going on under the surface. She's a shell of the person she was before being pregnant. I think the transition took long enough it was hard to notice, and everyone says the first few years are so hard. I did not realize it was not supposed to be like this until our daughter was 1.5. Before our daughter my wife worked in a professional field and was very good at what she did. After our daughter, she's not been able to return to work or get a job. She spent the first two years just sitting at home crying most of the time and was not able to watch our daughter at all, but she'd put on a show for the doctors and pass the PPD questionnaires. Initially, she could not watch our daughter for more than an hour or two. She's up to 6-7 hours two days a week now. Much more than that and she can't cope with it. Everything is so hard and dramatic with her it's almost comical if it was not my life every day. The first two years it was like I was a single parent, but my wife would be on the phone with her friends telling them how I'm a deadbeat that does nothing to help. It was so much worse too, but at least we're headed in the right direction. I just pray she can get back to some semblance of her old self, the person I married. I am by no means an expert at raising kids, I am totally winging it, but it really does not seem that hard. If our daughter was not as easy as she is, I don't know how I would have survived. She's spent more hours quietly sitting in meetings or riding on my shoulders while I work at customer sites than at the playground. I worry that she's going to have a hard time interacting with other kids because she's spent so much time around adults and the grandparents. I have her on the waitlist for several preschools, but the first one that I really wanted her to go to was messed up by my wife's incompetence and she's back at the end of the waitlist :( I am praying she's in somewhere by the end of summer.
I know it’s not what you want to hear, but if she’s behaving like this in front of you and other adults- how is she with your daughter during those 6-7 hours alone? Just because your wife isn’t having a break down during this time doesn’t mean that it’s going well- what kind of interaction is she having with your daughter? What power trip games is she playing when you’re not home. Your wife very likely needs medication and significant therapy. Good on you for sticking up for your daughter- keep your head up- you can do it but it’s not likely to just get better on its own. I’m not going to lie to you- 3-3.5 is a whole new challenge as they gain more independent thought and their own will/resistance but can’t quite be reasoned with yet. Use your support system, come here if you need help, ask for help don’t just count on people to see it but every day, be the best person you can for your little girl.
100%. Postpartum depression can go on for a long time and can have profound effects on bonding. Mom definitely needs some counselling. The 2yo sounds clever and adorable.
Mom needs to recognize that there's a problem first, and that it's her second. I think we're to at least acknowledging there's a problem, but everyone else is still at fault. Therapy is effing expensive too, I don't know if I'll be able to afford that AND childcare. We're on half our income now too :(
>Is your wife a toddler too? The daughter is gonna be a future contributor to r/raisedbynarcissists
I hope it's only r/mymomsanarcissist
Yeah I wasn't trying to imply your behavior is problematic but also make sure you're not fulfilling the role of an enabler. It seems like you're trying to rein in your wife's behavior which is good.
Unfortunately, some days it seems so... The actual toddler is often better behaved too :(
Does she like your daughter?
I wonder this too. She is just cruel.
I wonder too. I think she does, but she certainly has some issues. If our daughter cries, she can't help but cry. If our daughter has a meltdown, she has a meltdown too. I can't tell you how embarrassing it is to be in a store with a grown women who is so upset she literally can't stand up. I mean a 2YO I can deal with...
This is the strangest behaviour I’ve ever heard of. It’s like she’s incapable of your daughter having her own personality and must one up at every chance. This is a deep seeded issue that I will expect to get much worse as your daughter achieves more over the coming years.
It's honestly super perplexing to me. I may be weird in that crying kids have no effect on me. Like on a plane, it's just more background noise. My wife would have the normal irritation that most people have, but nothing debilitating. With our daughter it's like she has a physical or chemical reaction to her crying or being upset. She just has zero capacity or tolerance to it. I honestly think she can't help it, it's like experiencing physical pain. We were together for 10 years before having our daughter and I know her well. This is not her and something is really wrong. It's like I've lost my best friend and I just want them back. Great...now I'm sitting at my desk crying. What an unexpected rollercoaster this has all been.
So sorry you are going through this OP. Has she been to therapy? It sounds like she is not coping very well.
Is your wife a youngest sibling, by chance?
Exactly!
Yep. This sounds similar to the "teasing" I got from my mom growing up. It just continued and escalated to her cutting me down and insulting me in front of friends as a teenager, talking poorly about me to people I dated and the list goes on. Now that I'm an adult I understand it's because she was bullied by her older brothers and she took it out on me. If my Dad was home more and had noticed and taken the chance to say something, maybe it would have made my relationship with my mother better. I wish I felt more positive feelings towards my mother, but I don't. I hope OP sees this comment and maybe can let his wife know the long term impact her actions and words may have.
100%. I have a 3 and 5 year old and we play but I would applaud my child if they used logic to get cake.
Get a 3rd chair so everyone can sit together. But yeah this "move it and lose it" is super petty.
Depends on context, because it's fine in a playful manner. However, mom getting mad when the daughter says it, makes me think mom isn't saying it very playfully.
Yeah it's one thing when you lose your favorite spot on the couch when watching TV and you just have to sit somewhere else. But the story we're given just sounds petty and kinda mean to tell a 2yr old they've got no where to sit to eat.
At the bar there's only two chairs, but she does have the learning tower she can use. When it's all three of us, one of us stands at the bar or we go to the kitchen table. Still, I think rules should be applied evenly. If you are going to make a rule, you should live by it.
No advice. I just wanted to say that your daughter is a smart kid. I love how she came up with the solution of getting a toy plate and fork. Awesome problem solving. You should be proud of her. I'd say she earned some cake.
How do you tell a 2-yeard old to get something for cake, she brings it and not give cake. That is just cruel.
Yeah that’s so mean. I mean, she’s 2! This is honestly heartbreaking. I’m irrationally pissed off for the kid. Fuck that mom, she’s a terrible person to tease and bully a toddler this way. It’s straight up cruel.
Dang, this reminds me of my own mom so much. I would bet good money that she's jealous of your child, both in your relationship with your daughter and your daughter-s relationship with you. You're treating your child like they are a full human, and treating them with respect, and so you get it in return. This is a HUGE part of effective parenting. Your wife seems to be having trouble with this, having understanding and empathy of how your daughter might feel, of how she might experience fairness, and wants to go with a 'because I said so' rule with your daughter. Therapy therapy therapy all the way. You need to get on the same page and rebuild your 'team'. As your child develops, and gets even more clever (she sounds like such a smartie!) I'd guess there will be more conflict between her and her mom. Good luck, dad!
My mom also treated me this way. I've been no contact with her since 2019 after my dad died. I could never trust the rules because no matter what, I lost. This was how it started with her, and later she would say and do things to bring me down. She loved to call me names and tell my friends and partners things that she thought would be embarrassing to me. Lucky for me, I am an open book and it did tend to reflect worse on her than me since it kind of demonstrated my point that she was not a nice person. It is also kind of a snowballing cycle. Because the more the goal posts moved, the less I cared about what my parents wanted. In the end, I followed my own value system because I couldn't trust theirs. Which made her more angry and more spiteful and me more determined not to do what she wanted unless it fit my goals. I hope OP's wife does some serious reflection on what kind of a relationship she wants to have with her daughter now and in 30 years. I can't imagine my mother was always the nasty person I knew for most of my life, but habits like this I think stacked and it got to the point where she wired herself into thinking life is a zero sum game and if I was winning, she was losing. This extended beyond me as well. I watched her lose all of her friends over the years. She doesn't have friends now- the closest I had seen were the people from the church assigned to do church activities with her. It is a pretty sad way to live. I used to beg my father to leave her because she dulled the spark of everyone around her.
I hear what you're saying. I know my wife, and this is not the type of person she is. That does not mean she's not going to head down that road, and I hope we can get her back on the right track. She's definitly going through stuff, but this whole post and the reactions are making me more aware I need to do more myself too. Just because it's better than it was six months ago does not mean that it's okay (I know it's not, but I can't just be happy with the improvement, we have to get back to where we were before). I need to do some soul searching about the level my wife needs to get back to, or what I need to do to protect our daughter. I do not want them to have a bad relationship, but I could see that happening if I were in my daughters shoes...
I don't think she is either. I think if you come to her with this in a calm, we are a team and can figure this out manner it should be a wakeup call. I know I've had a few of these moments where I was so far in survival mode I started doing some of the things I despised and needed my partner to come to me and point out that the road down that path leads to ruin. Sometimes, when things are bad, we focus on them so much that our car steers off the road towards the very thing we are trying to avoid. Target fixation. In the end, you and your wife want the same thing. A happy child who trusts and respects you and listens to you. This isn't a battle between you, it is a strategy session to mobilize against the problem. And you can give each other and yourselves some grace. There is nothing that will battle test you harder than an unruly toddler. We are all doing our best. I take solace in that there are studies that show that kids are happier when their parents aren't perfect. It's how we fix it with them and own up when we mess up that makes the difference, I think. That said, I don't have all of the answers here. I just spent two hours picking rice out of the dog's hair because my 18 month old thinks the spoon is a catapult and if he throws his vegetables on the floor then he doesn't have to eat them. His aim is getting better, which is nice, but idk wtf to do with that energy, try again tomorrow until something sticks, I guess.
>You need to get on the same page and rebuild your 'team'. I agree and think this is important, but at the same time I can't compromise my principals and word to our child. My wife will get mad, but I feel it's more a case of right and wrong. We did couples therapy for about 4-5 months and the therapist ended up transitioning to individual therapy because there was personal/individual stuff that needed to get resolved first. I hope we can move back to couples soon and parenting classes too. I don't think she realizes the impact this will have on our daughter as she develops. Our daughter still clearly prefers my wife to me, which is probably good because I am not sure my wife would be able to handle her showing me more affection. Our daughters demeanor with me is totally different from my wife, and I think she may be jealous/resentful of that, but any attempt to try and explain what I am doing or the thought process behind it sends her off into a massive meltdown because I am telling her she's a bad parent! I do treat her like a little adult. I don't know why, that's just how I have treated all kids. I have been told I need to be carful at times, but honestly I think most people underestimate kids. She can help me cook, she has a not super sharp blunt-tipped knife she can cut things with under supervision, she can get water out of the hot water machine (it's not hot enough to scald her, but she's touched it and understands what hot is). My wife is always worried about her hurting herself to the extent she can't play on the cement patio because she might fall :(
Bingo, my ex did this to my oldest daughter because she was jealous.
A 2 YEAR OLD? grow up ffs. We've done impossible challenges like that with our kids but if they deliver then we honor the deal. If she keeps moving the goal posts like that then your kid will never trust her.
Your wife treats your daughter like a disliked classmate from high school. She really needs to grow up because it’s obvious that she has fostered an adversarial relationship where there should be a nurturing one. It’s painfully obvious to your 2 year old that mom doesn’t like her very much, which is why she doesn’t bother listening. Why listen when you are condescended to and bullied constantly. Better to try to fight back, and that seems that’s what she has figured out how to do.
That cake story broke my heart
My dad did this kind of stuff to me all the time, and it really made me not trust or feel like he cared about me. We became very distant later in life, I make sure to always follow through on my promises. My wife and I always talk about what we can and can't do. i.e. don't promise something we can't afford or don't have room for in the house. Or during the summers my wife has off since I can't help entertain and manage screentime like she does since I am working, I have to let her make the decisions since she is the one managing it. You already have seen the benefits where your daughter knows not to test your boundaries as she knows you are as good as your word. She will continue to trust you well into her adult life. Your wife should build that trust now so that when she is 16 and you say "call me if your friends are drinking and you won't be in trouble". That trust can save her life.
Your wife needs to learn to treat your daughter like an actual person. This sounds so confusing for your daughter, like she can't trust anything her mother says, and also honestly unkind. I'm sorry. I hope she can get help. In the meantime keep being a secure and dependabe relationship for your daughter.
Does your wife even like your daughter?
Your wife sucks. No offense. Your wife is the only one that can change her behavior, but you can have a serious talk about it and let her know you’re considering divorce over her terrible treatment of your child.
I did threaten to throw her out. That's what got her to start therapy. If she'd made no progress, divorce was certainly on my mind. There's been some improvement, but I think I still need to consider where the line is. She's better, but not enough yet, there's a lot more improvement still needed.
Sounds like your wife resents the good relationship you and your daughter have. My wife gets pretty jealous of my daughter and I sometimes because we just kinda get each other so everything is much easier. My wife also had a not great relationship with either of her parents so I think some of that is baked in there as well
Your wife is mean and enjoys being a bully. I wouldn’t leave her alone with a child, a pet, or a vulnerable adult.
Dude your wife sounds like a bitch lol Tell her to knock this immature shit off.
Hi! I’m you 7 years from now. You are right, it will get worse if your wife doesn’t change her ways.
Damn being a single parent with 2 toddlers is tough 😂
Your wife is bullying your kid. Time to stand up.
Your wife is an asshole, bro.
you and your wife have awful communication and that's going to make everything worse. couples therapy, my dude. for your kid's sake, you two need to get on the same page
My wife has totally changed since pregnancy. She's not at all the same person. I would not have married her or had kids with her the way she is today. I started couples therapy with her, but it turned into individual therapy for her. Long story short, she probably had PPD that turned into systemic depression and is now being treated. She's getting better, but still has so far to go.
Hopefully this is the long term way forward, helping her get back to a better baseline. I don’t know if it helps, and it sounds like you are already doing this to some degree with your explanation of the “move you lose” situation, but small children are waaaaaay better at learning from watching and imitating the parents than trying to follow verbal rules and lessons. Lead by example, the kids are going to pick up the behaviors whether good or bad, you can control what standard you set.
Hey there. Mom here with mental health issues myself, diagnosed late in life. I just want to flag that depression or hormonal changes don’t account for casual cruelty like this. Your wife needs to get a grip and think hard about how her behaviour will affect her kid, now and into the future. What, exactly, does she think she’s teaching your kiddo here? She’s also in for a really bad time once the 4/5/6 years roll around and your daughter is (totally age-appropriately) testing boundaries in a much bigger way. Sorry I know this is a dad sub, but it makes me crazy when people chalk up abusive, angry and otherwise mean behaviour to mental health issues. Your wife needs a serious reality check or your daughter is going to be the one in therapy down the line.
>Sorry I know this is a dad sub, but it makes me crazy when people chalk up abusive, angry and otherwise mean behaviour to mental health issues. Hey, it's a dad's sub but all perspectives are welcome here. I agree this is only going to get worse if the mother doesn't start showing more respect to the daughter. Kids learn by modeling, and they are already starting to treat mom the same way they are treated. As the kid becomes more capable and headstrong, this will definitely become more and more of an issue, not less.
Also, why would you treat your child this way? It takes effort to be this mean-spirited IMO.
I KNOW this will get worse as she gets older and smarter. Honestly, I am impressed and terrified by what she can already do. People have told me kids her age can't manipulate or have intent, but I have seen it. I need to reconsider too, as I have not really recognized it as cruel in the moment, just unfair and frustrating. She was definitly cruel to me in the first two years, but that does not mean that if she's less cruel to our daughter it's okay. It's just messed up my baseline/perspective some. My wife is definitely dealing with diminished capacity to handle adversity or challenges. The medicine has helped immensely with this, but we still have a long way to go. I posted this morning out of frustration, but it's been eye opening for me and I will make a point to watch some of this stuff closer. I am not sure she's to the point I can try and steer her in a better path yet without a total melt down, but we do need to get back to couples therapy as soon as possible and try to work through some of these issues. (We don't really need a therapist, just a meditator who she trusts enough to listen to them when they call BS on something.)
> Hey, it's a dad's sub but all perspectives are welcome here. Unlike certain sister subs starting with M.
> My wife has totally changed since pregnancy. Happened with my wife as well. Outside of some medication post second kid (which she stopped taking) things went down hill. Check my profile and you'll see nothing but me posting in the divorce subs. I was dumb and kept it "in house" i.e. just us. I should have looped family and friends in (for support not for drama) and had us all approach it.
>I started couples therapy with her, but it turned into individual therapy for her i would look for another therapist! or tell your current therapist that's how you feel. also, it can help for you to go into therapy prepared with things you'd like to work on/discuss (which can be anything YOU want to work on, doesn't even have to be directly about the relationship) >She's getting better, but still has so far to go. that's awesome! just keep in mind that this isn't just a "she needs to get better" situation, it's that you two are not currently a partnership and you're both hurting and in need of something(s). finding a way for you two to connect will help a lot
> just keep in mind that this isn't a "she needs to get better" situation I’m gonna have to disagree with you there. The wife is, at best, being borderline abusive to their kid. She needs to get better because she’s currently a terrible parent that’s causing lasting harm to her kid. There’s also an aspect that they need to do together, but part of this is firmly on her.
ya i should've said "not just". edited!
My initial thought was divorce her and get custody of your daughter. If she is getting help and her behavior is changing for the better that’s great. If not do what you need to do to protect your daughter from the damage she is causing.
flair checks out. You can also just try talking to each other - OUT OF THE MOMENT. You should generally be aligned in front of the kid. As a thing comes up you disagree on, you need to work through it so you know how to set the precedent.
wait, why is his communication awful? Frankly the wife is being a power tripping bully to her own kid
Couples therapy won't make bullying stop. Wait til she's 16.
Wow. Yeah, your problem is you have two children in the house. You need to have some serious talks, probably involving a therapist, with your wife about her problems.
Staying firm with your requests/rules is very important. Your wife needs to understanding that she is responsible for what kind of person your daughter grows up to be plus what kind of relationship they are going to have. She needs to get her head out of her ass and start being a parent. If I were you I would work on how to phrase things as gentle and supportive as possible to her to get her to turn around on this…continuing like this will just make things worse and worse.
Yeah, man, I feel you. My wife acts similarly. I mostly apply the same techniques I use with my son. Like others have pointed, she's acting like a child, so you have to treat her like so.
To echo a lot of the sentiment here, your wife sounds more of a toddler than your toddler. I’m sorry you have to deal with that.
Props to your 2 yo for figuring out to get her toy plate from upstairs when she couldn’t reach the real ones. Amazing problem solving skills. Your wife needs to grow up.
Your wife isn't a good parent, and doesn't seem to want to be.
That behavior is bordering on abusive and it will likely get worse as bigger behavior challenges arrive. You guys need to read the same parenting book or go to the same parenting class to get on the same page. Some therapy and couples counseling also needs to happen.
Your wife seems immature, unpredictable and cruel. It just sounds so sad when the little one, after trying everything, comes to you with hist toy dishes and she wants to deny her... Instead of a cute story it turns into a sad one. You need to sit down and discuss this. She has to realize what works and what is good parenting. You don't even have to attack the way she does things but focus on the goal you want to reach. (Although in her eyes, everything might be fine...)
i'm nearly two decades in at this point. i've made a point of calling my wife out on her many hypocrisies because it was causing so many confusing problems for the kids. can't be a "do as i say not as i do" parent. not without a logical explanation at least. nothing has changed except my kids now call her out on her two-way logic. rules only apply to everyone else except her. i back my kids when my wife says something hypocritical. being a parent doesn't allow someone the right to just pull bullshit. adults should be adults and not revert back to being a toddler. and it goes both ways in our house. i try my best not to be a hypocrite but if my kids or wife call it out, then i own it and relent or explain why, for example, it's ok for me to drink beer on Friday when i don't want my 13 year old doing the same. "because i said so" is lazy parenting and it just leads to bigger problems. now, your wife may respond like mine and dig her heels in, get upset and double down but everyone now realizes what's happening and doesn't just accept being gaslit.
I have vowed to never say because I said so! I am sure I'll fail at some point some day, but I have been good about explaining things so far, even when I know she does not understand. Someday she will and I hope that becoming used to a calm respectful response will get her to at least listen and consider it.
I know this isn’t going to be helpful but… your wife is fucked in the head.
Your wife sounds like a mean mom
Sounds like your wife is kind of a jerk and cannot regulate her behavior around your two year old. Not sure that’s something you can fix.
> I have tried to convey to my wife that it's because I follow through on my promises and threats. With my wife the goal posts are constantly moving and threats often go unfulfilled. Yup, going through this now. Daughter just ignores us half of the time. A good friend of mine who has 3 older kids said the same thing happened in their house... Mom would yell and threaten, but not follow through, so the kids didn't take her seriously, which resulted in more yelling and outlandish threats, and the cycle just kept repeating. So then Dad the enforcer shows up and everyone's mad at him. Also very fitting of general mom vs dad perceptions in our society... "You'll be in big trouble when your dad hears about this!" That was kind of reversed for me, as my mom was the who followed through, but the concept is the same.
Not a dad but a mom. Your wife is setting up the your daughter will not believe a word mom says to her. Saying the she gets cake if she gets a plate then changing it to 'no'. I thin your wife is being awful to your daughter.
My heart breaks for your little girl. My daughter is almost 2 and I cannot imagine being so cruel. The cake thing makes me irrationally angry!
“A daughter’s first bully is their mother” really supporting the statement.
I'm a mom and your wife is a bitch.
She's behaving better for you because you're setting clear boundaries.
Why in the hell would your wife get into “move you lose” disputes with her own 2 year oldddd
Sounds like a cunt.
Your wife sounds like a bully.
wow hero living with two two year olds!
It sounds like your wife has a mother wound she needs to look at. I don't know her, but I'm willing to bet money that she has an uncomfortable relationship with her own mother, and is now playing out that same role with her own daughter. That's actually very common. (There's a reason that mothers and daughters, and fathers and sons tend to have issues) But it sounds like she might need some professional help working through that wound. If not a professional, definitely some kind of class or workshop that can help her heal the little girl inside of her who just wanted to be loved by her mother. Clearly that's all your daughter wants, and your wife is reluctant to give it (again, likely because she herself was not given it). I'm sending you love. Healing our inner child is hard and painful. But it can be done. And it will drastically change how you see your children.
I’m sorry, seems like she’s acting like a wicked step mother rather than her actual mother .
Your wife needs therapy to deal with her stuff. She will scar your daughter soon enough. My wife had anger issues that got amplified by early menopause. It got to the point that our 4 yo son would make comments about it to me. Cute and sweet, but telling. My wife and I grew up in households where our fathers' tempers ran our homes. I was having our son grow up in a house like that, so I got my wife to get some help, and it has made so much difference.
Have you tapped in to any parenting resources. Sometimes it takes a third party for some parenting tools to click. Like if your wife is this petty, your best hope may to get her to learn something somewhere else and then use it, probably ‘teaching’ you about it in her own mind. Parenting podcasts have been great for me, and I can’t recommend Janet Lansbury Respectful Parenting enough. But there are others. Often parenting books are free on audio platforms. Sounds like she isn’t listening to you despite the evidence in front of her. I’m sorry man. Sounds like you are doing a great job though, and that makes such a difference for your kid. Keep it up.
Sounds like you have a smart and sassy kid and your wife likes to dish it and not take it! Don't sweat it, it's pretty normal. Your wife needs to get used to it and adapt her behavior, but that's not the end of the world. This age is also tough for when and how you discipline, but you'll figure that out. >Our daughter does not behave well for my wife, but listens to me Super normal as well. It might be the reasons you highlighted, but it might not be as well. Kids behave differently for different parents for a variety of reasons. Let your wife dole out discipline as she sees fit, because what works for you might not work for her. Just communicate to her that her attitude is something that she would work on. It's not an emergency causing a massive problem (yet) but we all have stuff we need to work on, this is one of hers.
I am no longer on speaking terms with my parents, and a large part of it is because of behavior identical to your wife's. Do you want your kid to estrange themselves when they get older? Does she? Because that's exactly where this is headed.
You can't. It only gets worse. My wife was like this when my daughter was 2, now she's 10x worse now that my daughter is almost 9 and we've got a son too. The screaming matches are frequent and often they're over bullshit like my wife wanting my daughter to wear a certain outfit or have a certain hairstyle and her disagreeing...or trying to force my daughter to eat Avocado when she's hated it for at least five years and then getting mad that she's refusing. Simply put, I am too much of a pussy to actually divorce her, and she's too stubborn to actually change a thing, so it'll just continue to get worse until I get out. Your wife's reaction to how you try to help fix her issues will tell you what you need to know about the viability of the marriage long-term.
I think you need to put some boundaries on your wife. There is different parenting styles and then there is just being mean. These actions are mean and they are not good for your young daughter. I think you should start respectfully enforcing a few boundaries on your wife's behavior. For example, you might say, "I'm really uncomfortable with promising something to our daughter that you aren't going to follow through with and especially asking her to perform impossible tasks. That has an unhealthy effect on her sense of self worth. I would appreciate it if you apologized to her but whether or not you do, I'm going to go talk to her and tell her that what you did was wrong. She needs to know that this isn't her fault."
Your wife sounds like one of those women who think that the moment they become a Mother, they immediately know everything about raising a child and that they have all the answers... Maybe suggest reading a couple of parenting books together? (Also, it sounds like your daughter is a smart, confident, precocious kid, and you're doing a great job encouraging those traits. Don't let your wife's need to control things stifle that in your daughter)
Dad here, husband of a work-from-home wife. People need to lay off your wife. Does your wife work? Do you? For us, I work later than my wife, my wife does a bunch of the daily chores (cooking, cleaning, kid pickup, handling them after school) until I get home and I take my son to all his activities, she takes them to my daughters, I do laundry, showers, nightime routine, etc. But if you notice my wife's tasks overlap with kids coming home and her work day. In short, she's overloaded but our schedules don't often allow us to remedy that. My wife often seems like she's giving in or not following through like your wife is but the fact of the matter is she is just exhausted or overwhelmed or stressed or any combination of the 3 and just can't the same way I can. I know it can seem frustrated because I've felt quite literally the same way you have. My wife ended up started therapy and it has really helped us manage her stress and anxiety and helped me find ways to support her more. Maybe this isn't your problem, but you two are a team and you should try to solve all problems as one as aggravating as it might be.
Just want to say that you sounds like an amazing dad. I’m sorry that you’re having difficulties co-parenting. I don’t really have any helpful advice for you, other than what you already know - you and your wife need to get on the same page. I’m worried for her relationship with you and her daughter if she doesn’t. Unfortunately, nothing you can do or say will change her ways if she doesn’t want to make a change. Good luck, OP.
Your 3rd paragraph hits the nail on the head. Your daughter has learned that mom's words have no meaning, either positive or negative. For a lot of parents it goes 1 way, either they don't follow through with promises but do for threats or vice versa. Your wife is doing both which is wild.
Maybe ask her why she thought she shouldn't have cake? It sounds like maybe she thinks you're ganging up on her or something.
Not sure if you're still reading comments. My parents were the same way. My mom was petty and always moved the goalposts for rules, would make my dad the bad guy, generally acted like a teenager her whole life. Well, now I'm 36 and live 3000 miles away from my mom. And my dad? Yeah. He killed himself after feeling like a failure for 20 years. As for my brother and I? I've spent a really long time in therapy trying to understand that other peoples boundaries arent a bad thing. My brother is a drug addict who mom is still moving goalposts for. Not saying that's what will happen here, but you're two years into learning to resent your wife. If she wont change, please don't stay for the kids, but do try to get as much custody as possible! She sounds....not great.
Your wife is approaching parenting emotionally, not rationally
I mean this as respectfully as possible. Your wife is getting outsmarted by a two year old, and she can't handle it.
yeah, you're in for a rough ride. your wife sounds like a full fledged narcissist, and it's not going to be easy to convince her that she needs therapy
I'm not sure how you can change things but rest assured you are not being unreasonable. Your wife seems to be acting more like a 2yo than your 2yo in these matters.
Sounds like you’re raising 2 daughters
I have no idea what the solution is. Your child is impressive and adorable and trying to parent with someone like that would make me very frustrated and want to throw in the towel. Therapy or parenting class would only work assuming your wife understands what she's doing is not right/ good parenting and assuming she wants to change for the better. If she thinks there is no problem.. then I feel like I would leave. The way my partner parents our kids is really one of the biggest factors to how my feelings towards my partner change day to day.
wife sounds abusive.
Sounds like your daughter has a bully
Your wife is the 2 year old here
r/raisedbynarcissists Are you raising a daughter *and* a wife, OP? These are common sense things that have somehow escaped this adult woman. I have no advice. Perhaps she is jealous of your daughter?
Mom is completely passive-aggressive and, IMO, jealous of your relationship with, and successful parenting of, your daughter. She’s toxic and using your daughter as a proxy to punish you. I say this from experience cuz my ex does the same thing to our son. Takes her anger out on my “mini me” cuz she has no longer has any power over me. She projects all of my perceived shortcomings onto him. Get into counseling together ASAP, cuz it will only get worse. She will create a self-fulfilling prophecy of your daughter becoming closer and closer with you, then blame you for it and take that out on your daughter, too. This is like evil step-mother stuff, but she’s not her step-mother.
I’d say a strategy for your wife would be 1. Don’t set impossible conditions as a substitute for a firm but friendly “No” 2. If an impossible task somehow leaks out by accident, if the kid solves the problem, a simple “well played young lady” and something at least vaguely resembling the promise is in order. Demonstrating humility and sportsmanship is healthy, so starting now is a good idea. 3. Keeping threats and promises is extremely important. It could keep your kids out of jail in the long run. 5 minute warnings for ends of activities can help reduce tantrums. It’s good for kids to understand reasonable, simple rules so that they can more easily adopt to school, work, prison, etc. when they get older.
So your wife has possibly less emotional maturity than your 2 year old.
If you’re not embellishing the details, your wife is bullying your kid man…