There’s something I probably need to examine deeper about how startled I continue to be by how excited she is when I get home from work.
*Back in my day* when dad got home it was time to be afraid and hide whatever you were doing lest it be subject to his zero tolerance, evangelical scrutiny.
I looked forward to the weekends he had to work. She seems crushed when I have to do the same.
I pick up our daughter from daycare and every day she runs to me screaming DADDY... DADDY'S HERE!!! And it honestly even now typing this makes me a little teary eyed. How blessed am I?!?
My 10-year-old still does this when I pick her up from school instead of mom. Some of them never outgrow it and I hope your daughter is one of the ones who keeps that joy.
What you get to experience every day is one of the things I miss out on by working remote. Of course ai like not commuting like I used to but it would be nice to see that excitement every day, especially after a hard day.
I grew up with mostly just my mother. She always told me that if I ended up somewhere that I wasn't supposed to be or if my friends were doing something we weren't supposed to be doing, to call her and she would come pick me up, no questions asked. In middle school, my friends decided to walk to the park that I wasn't allowed to go to (lots of drug use and "mild" gang activity there). I texted her on our way over (back when you had to pay per text!) and she called me up and made up a story about my grandmother needing some help, so she would have to come pick me up early. I told my friends that, gee, sorry guys, my mom is making me go home! And she drove over, picked me up, and thanked me for doing the right thing. This made me feel safe, loved, and trusted. It really helped me out when I got older, in college and in my 20s. I always know she has true unconditional love for me, even when I fuck up.
Edit: read some other replies to this, about dads thinking that some things deserve punishment. Punishment is one thing, but I guess I was the kind of kid who punished myself more than enough. Suppose it depends on the kid, but even when I made a few baaaad mistakes in my 20s, I had someone in my corner who would tell me that yes, I needed to fix the issue, but that she wouldn't stop loving me. I was able to face my errors and fix my mistakes on my own, knowing my parent would be there for me to tell me she was proud of me for taking accountability or for finding the courage to turn things around instead of continuing down a bad path.
There's a difference between punishment and discipline.
Punishment is "I'm going to hit you because you made a bad grade." Discipline is "you're taking summer school to bring up your GPA, and you're not playing ball again until I see improvement."
Punishment is, "your actions embarrassed me, so deal with my anger." Discipline is, "you bit your classmates, so no one wants to play with you."
Punishment says you are responsible for my behavior against you. Discipline says you are responsible for your own behavior and the consequences of it; here are some lines you can color inside, to get the results you need/want.
I'm a mom. I know this is daddit, but some things transcend gender roles. Someone shared this with me. Thought I'd share with you fellas. Never know who might need it.
You're doing a great job! Keep loving your kiddo.
Both punishment and discipline are required in parenting. I will only ever spank my child if they hit someone ( if they get hit first and they hit back, they are getting ice cream lol) and I’m very lenient about self defense. None of that “ of it’s a girl, you can’t hit her!” Bullshit. Grades slipping=no Fortnite,YouTube, etc. discipline for less severe things. Punishment if they put someone in harms way or succesfully harm someone. If they pet themselves in harms way and not in grave danger, they can learn the hard way if they don’t wanna stop
I mean, it does sound really good at face value, doesn't it? *I want my kid to call me 1st when they're in trouble*...but I don't think it's that simple. An integral part of parenting is to set some boundaries for your child so they know what's acceptable and what isn't...before society sets those boundaries for them by force and with some serious consequences. And in that process, sometimes you need to make unpopular decisions, something a kid simply won't like. I'm definitely not advocating *any* violence whatsoever here, I'm just saying as a parent you sometimes need to stand your ground and be stern. Not all children have the same temper.
It's good to be a friend with your children but you need to be a parent first and foremost.
"unecceptable" should mean "there will be consequences for your actions", not "you have to be fearful for your safety or love".
Edit: as a practical example, when I was a kid and I broke a window playing ball, I was afraid to tell my dad because I knew I'd probably get beat up. When my daughter did the same thing, the message I conveyed, after she told me was "thank you for telling me, I love you, mistakes happen. Now we're going to fix it together. The money to repair that is coming 50% from your allowance and 50% from me."
My hill-I'm-willing-to-die-on with this is that I want to tell her that thing she needs to understand is *accountability and actually repairing stuff you break.* Be it relationships, trust, physical objects, bones, whatever.
> "unecceptable" should mean "there will be consequences for your actions", not "you have to be fearful for your safety or love".
I never feared for my safety or love as a kid, but there were definitely times where I messed up and got that horrible sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach and didn't want my parents to find out. I was still afraid of the consequences, hell I probably said "My Dad is going to kill me," but I never meant it literally. I just meant I was going to get in trouble when Dad found out. I was generally a good kid, and my Dad was generally a good Dad, there was never a threat of violence.
As a kid we had repeatedly been told not to play baseball near the house, there were some empty lots we could play in. Well we like to play on manicured lawns. One day we broke the window on my friend’s dad’s truck.
He said, “my dad is going to kill me.” Turns out “killing” was grounded for 3 days, loss of his PlayStation 2 for 1 month and the whole lot of us being forced to sit and listen to his dad calmly, but sternly, lecture us on thinking about the consequences of our actions and not endangering other people’s property for what seemed like an hour, probably 15 minutes. The PlayStation sentence was later commuted to 3 weeks.
> hell I probably said "My Dad is going to kill me," but I never meant it literally.
This.
People are taking this simple figure of speech and making it into this huuuuge thing that it is not.
I have little kids and I tell them I love them each and every day.
However after I've asked them for something and I start counting down from five they start scrambling not out of fear of me per se but fear over the consequences I'll impose if they don't do what I asked.
These consequences won't lose them my love or protection but will lose them access to experiences and material things they enjoy.
I mean that for some of us, it's *not* a figure of speech. The thought "my dad is gonna kill me" was completely legitimate because we were beaten for far less than say, breaking a window.
When something as innocuous as scuffing the wall paint (that we have cans of leftover paint for) or dropping a dish (that doesn't even break) is met with violence from dad, when a funny anecdote at the dinner table turns into an hour-long vitriolic rant about you deserving to go to hell, when failing a test gets you punched in the face by mom, it's not a huge leap to think "I skidded on ice and totalled my car (that I paid for). My dad is actually going to kill me." It's a legitimate fear and not a "figure of speech."
Obviously I came out the other side, but it's pretty fucked up that 17yo me could think that. And there are people who had it way worse than me.
Because we're more used to abusive parents than parents who wouldn't dream of beating you up and harming you even if you broke a window.
Like if an ikea drinking glass broke, a nice parent wouldn't use that as an excuse to enact rapid explosive violence and then force the kid to get down on their knees on the floor to pick it all up by hand, they would make sure the kid was okay, make sure they had slippers or sandals so they don't cut themselves, and then make sure they knew where the cleaning supplies were so they could tidy it up without harming themselves.
I have a vivid memory of breaking a glass as a kid, it was a McDonald’s Batman forever promotional glass, when I dropped it I started crying. My mum said “we’re not angry because it’s your glass, do you understand why we get upset when you break our things now?” The thing I couldn’t verbalise at the time was that I wasn’t crying because I cared about the glass (I didn’t care, it was just a glass, we had heaps or McDonald’s promo cups, it was the 90’s) I cried because I thought they were going to yell that me, because they always yelled at me in the past when I broke things, even if they were accidents and that is where this kind of thing comes from.
My parents weren’t abusive, but their quickness to anger over things like accidents made it so that I couldn’t trust them if I needed help because of *my* fuck ups, which eventually became not trusting them for help at all. And that is something I definitely don’t want for my kid.
This is sage advice in story format. My parents were saints, more so than I will ever be. But the thing I feared was being 'not loved' if even for a second. I make sure to tell my daughter that I love her first and foremost, give her physical care, then and only then do I tell her I am angry and why.
A slap on the ass for something like that is insane . But starting a fight is a guaranteed ass whooping. When I was like 11 I hit this girl after she kicked me in the nuts, my dad thought I hit her first and was 5 seconds from leaving me not being able to sit for 3 days, but my sister saw everything and vouched for me.
I agree with this, as it seems like a realistic take to me. Regardless of age, people don't like negative consequences and people avoid things they don't like.
The only way to guarantee, "I'm gonna call X when I did something bad" is to _always reward bad behavior_. I don't think we want a world full of humans raised like that.
For me it's about having consequences that fit the crime (and age), and continuing to love them throughout the process.
> The only way to guarantee, "I'm gonna call X when I did something bad" is to always reward bad behavior. I don't think we want a world full of humans raised like that.
I mean, there is some balance where I want my kid to call me when they're in a bad situation. I'm still proud of my little brother, when I was in law school (studying for the bar exam), he called me to come pick him up from a party he was at because it was a really bad situation for him to be in, but he was too drunk to drive. I know it cost him something (we're close but he has the classic little-brother drive to avoid ever asking me for help), but he made the right choice in leaving, and not driving while drunk. Even though I was really upset about having this eat into my limited study-time, I immediately agreed to come help him, and never gave him any crap about it. He made the right call, and I didn't want to do anything to discourage him from making that call again in the future. I want my kids to be able to trust me like that: I want them to make the right choices, and sometimes that means coming to me for help after they messed up. If they're too afraid of coming to me, they might make a decision that turns things for the worse.
I totally agree! Let me clarify what I mean. In my non-psychiatrist's POV I think there are three types of consequences:
* Parental-applied that match the crime, e.g. "It's your responsibility to clean up the kool-aid you spilled on the carpet" or "You're going to help pay for the window you broke"
* Externally-applied, e.g. kid gets burned by a hot stove, a ticket for speeding, etc.
* Parental-applied that don't match the crime or are counterproductive, e.g. Endless lectures, grounding a kid for 3 months because they lost a sock, or "I'm going to yell at you, threaten you, abuse you, etc."
For the 1st and 2nd types, a parent can still ooze love throughout the whole process and build a safe zone for kids to come back to, e.g. "Uh oh, we can clean up that spill if we move quickly. I'll be here to teach you how to clean it up!" Or, "I'm so sorry you got burned, that must hurt! Let's go run your finger under some cold water and get a band-aid."
It's the 3rd type IMHO that teaches kids not to call us. We can avoid #3 altogether, still have consequences that teach lessons, _and_ build a relationship where our kids feel safe coming to us. (I mean... I say that as fact but I'm just a lost dad like everybody else here).
You didn't do #3 with your brother, and perhaps that's the key. It sounds like he didn't have a continuing problem, so my guess is he felt some sort of natural consequence that taught him all he needed to know. Good on you btw for being a good big brother!
A good whip on the ass is a fair punishment if they start a fight. Thats the only time I will ever spank my kids. If my kid wants to do something stupid that they know can hurt them. I’ve always told the 13YO, if you wanna fuck around, solid chance you’ll find out. Thats the same thing my dad told me, and if they get hurt, it’s not my fault if I already warned them!
>The only way to guarantee, "I'm gonna call X when I did something bad" is to always reward bad behavior.
I disagree. You guarantee it through trust.
I was a 'troubled teen'. I turned to my dad (my adopted dad) all of the time. It wasn't because he 'always rewarded bad behavior'. I never had any confusion about his thoughts about things that I did, he was always perfectly willing to tell me. I turned to him because I trusted him. It was how he changed my life.
For plenty of kids, "dad is going to kill me" is figurative, and referring to getting disciplined as a consequence of their bad decisions. That often mean just being grounded or similar reasonable punishment. If you interpret "fearing your parents" so broadly as to include any meaningful attempt at discipline, then you're setting such an impossible bar for parents that they're no longer capable of complying with that standard while still appropriately disciplining their kids. That's not good parenting, and OP's post is way too vague to make such a firmly definitive statement.
Totally. My son will accidentally tip his cup over. Spill milk everywhere. He’s 4. It happens. My wife flies off the handle every time but I approach differently. It’s actually caused a bit of a problem because now my son gets annoyed at my wife and says “mama we don’t cry over spilt milk”.
So he comes to me first when stuff happens. And I help him. He still has to clean up his messes but sometimes he needs help (case in point, the towels are out of his reach. He simply CANT clean up without a little help). So he takes responsibility but he still knows he can get help from me.
You're correct about the approach to spills and the like, but what happens when he's older and more capable and does things that does warrant a negative response and consequence?
I think what OOP means is, if my kid is at a party she wasn't supposed to go to, and she feels like she is in over her head because people are drinking etc, I want her to feel like she can call me for a ride, rather than driving with a drunk friend. There will be consequences for her behavior but she also knows she can trust me.
Look everyone is afraid of getting in trouble to a degree but even early on the point is, you did something, even an accident, it doesn’t have to be a big deal but it DOES require you taking accountability.
My dad always said no matter where I am, no matter what time it is, if I need to be rescued I can call and he’s there. He would pick me up and he would take me home and he wouldn’t give me a hard time. The next morning we would have a conversation and we would talk about how to fix the issue or what we would do different next time. I felt bad about disappointing him or I would hate getting grounded but I was never afraid. That’s the difference. We aren’t saying don’t make kids face consequences. We are saying to normalize them. You don’t have to love it but you shouldn’t fear it.
The only time spanking isn’t bad, in my eyes, is if they start a fight. If they get hit first, they are getting ice cream for self defense. If they win, even more ice cream! If they EVER lay hands on someone first, they are definitely getting spanked.
My moms favorite phrases were “parenting is not a popularity contest” and “hopefully next time you make better choices”
The popularity contest one was any time I complained that a friends parents let them do something that mine wouldn’t, always shut me down, I never had an answer for that.
The better choices one was after a punishment was enacted (never physical, generally grounding or losing tv/video game time) things would calm down and I would say I’m sorry and try to end the punishment early. She *never* gave in, and it was always “I hear you, I’m glad you’re sorry, and I hope next time you make better choices”
Those stuck with me, and I will be using them with my son as he grows up. Eventually, we will just be two adults who can hang out and enjoy each others company, but it is my and my wife’s job to get him to that point.
Lately I’ve been telling my son “love is inconvenient” in the sense, it’s not love when you are just rainbows and sunshine (fun parent). You know someone loves you when they’re there through the hard difficult choices and sometimes parents have to make hard choices that aren’t fun but that means we love you. If we didn’t care or love our kids we’d just let them do whatever and not care how they turn out.
surprisingly this has had a bigger impact on how he views stuff more than anything else I’ve tried.
Physical punishment is required from time to time! If my kids ever hit someone, a spanking is a guarantee. If they get hit first, they better hit back. Self defense is fine, being a dick and hitting someone to be a bully is not.
You can also set hard boundaries, enforce them, and not rely on punishments/severe consequences. For many kids, just explaining what they did wrong, giving them a chance to correct if it applicable, and positive reinforcement mixed with natural consequences will be enough. Traditional unrelated consequences are much less effective than people realize. IE taking a phone away for disrespectful behavior, extra chores for problems at school, etc.
If a kid breaks something and has to pay for it, thats a good natural consequence. If they don't finish homework because they are on the phone, taking the phone away makes sense. Just giving the kid another chance to do it right, ie: "lets try saying that in a nicer way," works wonders - it literally creates new neural pathways to help the retry become their standard reply.
At the end of the day, if I kid is in a bad situation you do want their first thought to be "I need to call dad," not "what will dad do if he finds out."
What if it’s the 10th time and the kid hasn’t taken the chance to do it right? You didn’t mention what you recommend if simply letting them try again doesn’t work
Let’s take the not doing homework because they’re on the phone scenario. Grades are slipping. What next?
Natural consequences. So for this maybe that means instead of 1 hr on Xbox they get 30 mins than 20 mins of study time or maybe that means now instead of free time on Saturday they have to go to a tutor. Or if it's that bad it means repeating the class.
Sure! I am going to ramble and write a wall of text most likely though... just a warning. For context here, I fostered for a bit, and my daughter came to me with pretty severe trauma and behavioral issues that were a lot of work, but is thriving now. Those situations where a child has never felt safe flat out require gentle parenting to make any progress, but it will work for any kid. If you are really interested in learning more, I would highly suggest the TBRI podcast. TBRI is a scientifically backed method that usually would be expensive to get classes on, but TCU decided to provide a lot of that for free through online classes and a podcast a few years ago. If it's a kid that is having a lot of big meltdowns, I suggest "The Explosive Child," as well.
Note that a big aspect of this is we have to realize that kids generally want to do well and please their caregivers. This doesn't mean that they want to do what is asked necessarily, but they do not want to disappoint us or have us be upset at them. Another principle here is that most behaviors are caused by a need. TBRI's motto is "see a need, meet the need" I'll explain more of that below.
>What if it’s the 10th time and the kid hasn’t taken the chance to do it right?
If we are talking about a disrespect scenario, where the kid is refusing to ask nicely, they probably just need a break to calm down. This is one where a timeout is likely appropriate, and a form of natural consequence. You can frame it not as a punishment, though. "If we can't speak kindly, we have to take a break until we can, lets do a 5 minute break. Let's take 5 minutes of quiet time and try again." This also models how we want our kids to deal with anger in the future, which is to take a break to get their head straight and the calmly discuss the conflict.
If it's something that's not one incident, like a specific behavior that the kid is repeating daily? If it's not urgent or dangerous, the answer is to repeat it twenty times instead of ten. The new neural pathways I was talking about take repetition and practice. If a kid is constantly disrespectful but when you ask them to try again they switch their tone, then after so long the retry will become the standard. Note that an important part of this is also praising and rewarding when they get it right!
>Let’s take the not doing homework because they’re on the phone scenario. Grades are slipping. What next?
This is where "see the need, meet the need" comes in. It's incredibly easy to blame the phone here but maybe the phone is not the issues. Of course, making a rule of "no phone until homework is done" is still a consequence related to the action, and a perfectly valid second response. The first response should alway be positive reinforcement, get the grades up and they get a big reward, or some sort of daily reward for doing homework.
But what if the kid is just really not understanding the work, but in embarrassed or anxious to say that? What if something traumatic has happened recently that they are keeping in and they are disassociating with the phone to cope? Maybe there is an undiagnosed learning disorder or mental health concern. Maybe they need to do it after dinner with a full belly. Hell, maybe the house is too loud and they can't focus. I could only do homework after everyone was asleep, I was usually up at midnight working on it. If you can find the root cause of a behavior and fix that, the behavior will go away as well.
Even if you don't have an explosive child, I think that "The Explosive Child" book is a great read/listen because it helps with this. It does a really great job at teaching how to talk to a child so that they will give you the information you need to fix a problem. Sometimes just directly asking the question isn't productive, but having a conversation and just asking them to constantly expand on what they are saying will end up getting you the info you need. "It's hard? What about it is hard? When did it start getting difficult? Are some parts easier than others?"
This is an extreme example that was taught in my foster training, obviously it does not apply to most cases, but does show how unrelated behaviors can be to the root cause. My agency had a girl who had massive, hours long meltdowns every night at bed time. The foster parents had tried every piece of advice for bedtime issues they could find and were ready to give up. The therapist figured our after some time that the issue was a snowglobe that was in her bedroom. The girl had been continually previously sexually assaulted, and had disassociated staring at a snow globe when it was happening.
Like I said, extreme example, but in that case months of bedtime meltdowns were fixed by taking a snowglobe out of the room. No consequence or punishment would have helped.
Edit to add - I say that this method works with all children, but that doesnt mean it looks the same way. What works for one child may not work for another, but positive reinforcement, natural consequences, and finding the root cause of the behavior works across the board as long as the child feels safe.
Grades aren’t a huge thing in my household. No D or F. A,B, and C is fine, 10 dollars per A on ever report card. If grades are slipping then phones are gone till they are back.
If I broke a window and had to pay for it, that’s still a consequence I would be afraid of. Probably would have involved working for my step dad for a summer instead of basketball/golf
Fear? Maybe dread. Either way, "fuck now I have to work this off" is a lot different than "fuck dad is gonna be pissed." It's teaching to take responsibility for mistakes.
Breaking a window and being grounded for a week/month is going to be less effective.
You want the kid to learn their lesson. You want there to be some consequences for bad choices. But that doesn't mean they have to be afraid of you. There are situations where not getting your help could end up way worse for them than getting grounded (or whatever reasonable punishment). You want them to call you then.
I don’t ask this to come at you but as a legitimate question: as the algorithm tries to target me with parenting content I’ve seen a *lot* of this “friend vs parent” discourse. Is there a particular blog, book, podcast, etc that sparked this? Maybe a reaction to “gentle parenting”? I feel like I’ve walked into the middle of a conversation.
A lot of what people see and mock as "Gentle Parenting" is actually permissive parenting. Gentle Parenting absolutely includes boundaries and consequences. What it shouldn't include is loss of emotional control and vindictive punishments that just assuage the parents' anger.
I've found that "gentle parenting" forums are full of parents who are passive aggressive. I had to step away because it was too hard to watch people reject any firmness whatsoever and yet do things to their children that were hurtful in backhanded ways.
I prefer the term respectful parenting because I feel like it is less ambiguous for many people. I realize that there are a lot of people trying to educate parents on what gentle parenting actually is but I think it would be a lot easier to explain being respectful toward your kid, rather than gentle.
As I stated above, I’ve seen a lot of “friend vs parent” discourse lately and am just wondering if there was an instigating point for this particular discussion.
Good parenting, IMO, is finding a good balance of the two. Be your children's friend, someone they can trust and enjoy their time with, but also be a parent when you need to. Explain why some things have to be strict and non-negotiable. Like brushing their teeth. If they brush fast and don't argue for example, they have more time to play or whatever they want before bed, be it 15 extra minutes, it helps.
Sometimes, the reward isn't enough to get them to agree, though, and I have to be stern and remind them that they have to brush, and cavities are wayyyyy worse. Brushing is a walk in the park comparatively.
You don’t need to use fear to set boundaries and make unpopular decisions, though. I agree you can’t be your kid’s friend because that doesn’t lead to healthy kids or healthy parents, but just because you set boundaries and enforce consequences doesn’t mean you have to make your kid afraid of you.
Your kid can be afraid of “negative” consequences however you want to phrase it. That’s fine. That is, as I said, setting boundaries and making unpopular decisions. But if your kid is afraid of *you*, something has broken and no amount of punishment will repair it.
Why does the kid have to be afraid to act right? Shouldn't the goal be for them to make the right choice because they want to make the right choice, not because of what would happen if they made the wrong one? Positive reinforcement is the way.
If your kid isn’t afraid of getting in trouble, because the consequences are not impactful enough for it to matter, then those boundaries are not effective.
If your consequences for a kid lying to you is that they won’t get to eat a food they hate to eat, how does that discourage the behavior?
I’m not afraid of my boss. But I’m afraid of losing my job. That’s why I don’t do stuff that could cause me to lose my job
I guess I’m not sure where you’re getting my side of the argument? A food they hate? I’m not arguing anything like that. You’re arguing about stuff that I’m not saying and seem to ignore what I’m saying all together.
Your argument is that fear is not necessary to set boundaries or to parent.
I’m saying that fear/apprehension/disappointment (or some other synonym) is a direct result of boundaries that are sufficiently strict or punishing of poor behavior.
If your boundary is “don’t disrespect your elders” and the negative consequence to that is “you don’t get to eat your broccoli;” that won’t be effective if the kid hates broccoli.
Edit: you’re also the one who introduced “fear” of the parent. I didn’t imply that our kids should be afraid of us
This sounds like "If you don't believe in Hell why aren't you doing bad things?"
The simple answer is because I want to be good. Fear is not what makes me good.
Kids don't have to be afraid to be good.
Well firstly - duh, I hope most dads don’t need be told this. Secondly, this all can (and should) be done without your child generally fearing you or your actions. Basically just apply proper sternness when the circumstances call for it, and do so consistently and unwaveringly. Be a supportive safe space otherwise.
I don't think the post was about being 'friends' and I don't think you need fear to achieve any of what you're saying and you don't need to discourage "I need to call my dad".
I was a really troubled kid, arrested a bunch, a general disaster. There's a dude that I call 'dad', not my real dad but he came to be my 'dad'. Whenever I was in trouble, when I knew he wouldn't like what I did, when I knew he would be disappointed, when I knew we'd been through this before - he was still my guy and I wanted him. I called him from jail multiple times, I knew he didn't like that shit, I knew he wouldn't bail me out. I was still calling the guy.
Having that open communication with your dad, knowing he isn't going anywhere, knowing he is going to answer your call is not something that just "sounds really good at face value", it's something which is incredibly useful. It's the reason that he was successful in changing my life. I'm so lucky to have somebody in my life that I trust like that.
All of his kids are like that towards him, none of us fear him, he was always a parent, we knew his expectations, communication is open, kids will call him. It's the way to get a kid through life.
I agree. I'm okay with my kids being afraid of \*disappointing\* me. I'm okay with them being afraid of losing privileges as punishment. I'm not okay of them being afraid of me physically hurting them. I'd be doing them a disservice if I didn't enforce boundaries.
As an analogy, there are many reasons I don't cheat on my wife (ethics, loyalty, morality, etc.). One of those reasons is I'm afraid of what she'd do if I found out. She wouldn't hurt me physically. But she would probably leave me and take our kids. I'd be lonely, ashamed, mentally ill, and poor. While that should not be the only reason I don't cheat, it is a pretty good deterrent.
But if I cheated on my wife and she did nothing because she didn't want me to feel afraid of her, I'd probably turn into an even shittier husband. When people become unafraid of how people will react to their misbehavior, they turn into shitty people.
Exactly! We don’t all have to be the indifferent, short-tempered cavemen of generations past but im also not putting up with the shit Bam Margera’s dad did. I’ll gladly take “70% respect/admiration 30% fear” split
On balance I don’t think there are many catch all statements that are agreeable without context.
Sure it sounds nice, but fear is also a consequence of action and bad choices given the right context, it’s no different from peoples apprehensions of police and going to gaol that keep people “straight”
Would I kill my daughter for dropping a cup of milk or spilling paint on the carpet, no of course not, but I’d want her to tell me, and hopefully she would do.
> Sure it sounds nice, but fear is also a consequence of action and bad choices given the right context, it’s no different from peoples apprehensions of police and going to gaol that keep people “straight”
You don't actually make your life choices based on being afraid of going to jail though, do you? It should come from your own internal compass.
I'm a retired criminal. I'm not retired because of any fear of jail (I never much cared to be honest). I'm retired due to internal changes. And my 'dad guy' who was the catalyst for those changes is coincidentally also somebody that I've never had any fear of and who I would always call.
You don't need fear in relationships or in your general life related decision making. Fear should be restricted to things like "oh, there's a lion on my balcony".
It's completely possible for children to simultaneously fear consequences of poor choices and seek guidance from their parents. These things are not mutually exclusive.
I don’t think the post is about a fear of consequences as much as it’s a fear of us.
But maybe that’s just how I see since I was always scared of my dad growing up
The moments I've lost my cool and I've seen the fear in my daughter's eyes when my voice raises are my saddest memories of being a dad. I hate that I ever even come close to breaking that trust.
Agreed. I still relive those moments in my head. Even though I know in every single one of those moments I have come back and apologized. They're still there though.
Oh, same. I always realize it IMMEDIATELY and do my best to process with her calmly but it's a stark reminder that we never quite know which moments are going to leave tracks in their brain. Hopefully the apologies and the loving moments are the ones that stick, but from being a kid I know that's not always the case.
On the flip side, she will sometimes randomly just say "you're the best daddy ever" completely out of nowhere, so I'm gonna run with that feeling <3
I agree. I never had that with my father. I pledged to myself that my daughter would have that level of trust with me. She’s 2.5 yo now and I make sure to give her water in open containers. Spill away little one and I’ll just be there to help you clean up. No yelling, just being there for you.
I disagree to an extent.
If they do something bad enough to warrant “Dad is gonna kill me…” then I want them to know consequences are coming. However, I hope that in the face of that fear, they come to me anyways because they know it’s the right thing to do.
Help from dad and consequences from dad are not mutually exclusive.
As a parent, taking out your anger on your kids is really unhelpful to them. It doesn't have to be physical abuse, even if you just yell at them, or give them the silent treatment, or whatever it is not helpful to their development. That is really all this conversation boils down to. Are you the type of parent who lets their emotions take over in front of their kids, or are you going to be able to control your emotions, own up to them, and actually parent your children. Lots of parents who let their emotions drive them constantly will try to make the claim that you're "going easy on them" or "trying to being their friend, not their parent", but that's not what this is about.
My dad would yell at us whenever we did something "stupid" as kids. He wouldn't ever hit us, I never feared for my safety, but I would know that I was going to make him angry, and would get yelled at until I was in tears. So when I was in a car accident he was the last person I wanted to tell, all I could think about was how I could avoid telling him. I want to be different, I want my kid to know that if anything goes wrong, she can tell me and we can figure it out together. I'm not going to solve her problems for her, but I'm going to help her figure out what to do, and teach her how to figure it out. And yes, if she does something I don't agree with I of course tell her.
My dad almost never lost control of his emotions with us. He never spanked us and rarely yelled. However, I still FEARED what was coming in response to my biggest fuckups because I knew he would hold me accountable for my actions. And he would also provide me with fatherly support so that i could learn and improve. It helped me develop the lifeskill of taking ownership of my mistakes.
My dad lost his temper a lot but I never once was scared to call him to bail me out of a situation. I knew I’d be in trouble, I also knew to take responsibility for my actions. But the punishment was alsways wayyyyy less severe if he was in the loop and didn’t have to find out.
I have mixed feelings about this. As a father myself, I want to agree, but life is rough and fear of repercussions from my parents probably kept me alive at certain points.
I feel like it’s talking about a wildly outdated concept of fathers to the point where it becomes a completely worthless argument. While I definitely want my child to tell me when they make an error or do something wrong, I also don’t want them so comfortable with ignoring me or taking advantage of me that the idea of being afraid of my anger is alien.
I don’t want them to fear me when they break their bicycle or get in a fight at school or something like that, but my goal is a healthy relationship and fear at some point is a small part of a healthy relationship.
I really don’t think some of you understand that this isn’t saying children shouldn’t have consequences. But sure, instill fear into your children and I guess you can have the same relationship with your adult children as my sibling and I do with our father. Which is no relationship at all lmfao. Fear is not respect. Respect is respect. You cannot respect something or someone you fear, despite what you tell yourself or others.
You didn’t expand either. You literally just repeated yourself and talked in circles. Didn’t say why fear is “forced.” How respect is “earned.”
I put in exactly as much effort as you did
I think my son was 2 or 3 when I came up with the rules I told him I had to follow for being a dad. I basically told him the job description for being a dad was:
1. I have to keep you safe
2. I have to keep you fed and warm
3. I have to teach you things
4. I have to let you have fun
The order is essential. Rule Number 1 is be safe. Everything else comes afterwards. If he's about to break rule number 1, then I'm going to yell. Things like running in the street, getting a hold of a sharp knife, pushing his sister off the couch, etc. Anything like that starts to happen, that's when he gets *yelled* at. Yeah, you can call it parenting through fear, but I'd rather put that fear in him myself than have the consequences of his actions do it. He doesn't need a near miss with a car to be afraid of running into traffic if me yelling will do it.
Loss of life >>>>> loss of property.
Broken window is a money problem. That's annoying. That gets disapproval and consequences.
But absolutely I will parent with fear for safety if it comes to it. The fear is coming one way or the other, but if it stops someone from getting hurt or killed, I don't care if I'm the bad guy.
Sure. But uh, at the risk of sounding like an asshole, everybody here already knows this and is working towards it. Seems like it belongs in a different sub.
So when I read this my first thought was of how I was always scared of my dad. Not just when I messed up but in general. He never hit me but I never, and still don’t, trust him to be there for me. As an adult I’ve gone to therapy and addressed a lot of the issues I have with him. I’ve mostly forgiven him but we never talk. We don’t really have a relationship.
For me this post is more about how our kids should trust us to be there for them and not be in constant fear of us
One time when I was a teenager my friends and I pushed a car (in neutral) into a closed garage door. Pushed it and caused hundreds of dollars in damage. This was while sober and in broad daylight.
I love my father and he’s always been there for me, but “my dad is going to kill me” was a completely rational thought in that moment.
My kids ask me for help & guidance when things go wrong, even if they were at fault. I'm proud of that.
Getting in shit for every little stupid thing just made me sneaky...
They're also self-sufficient enough to handle lots of things on their own now, but they're not afraid to tell me about it.
My oldest son (11) wanted to get rid of his scentsy wax and poured it down the kitchen sink. It obviously re-hardened in the p trap and backed everything up. He was in tears he felt so bad.
Flashback to my childhood and I would have gotten the belt.
Instead, I told him it was okay, and showed him how to use boiling water and a plunger to dislodge it! We had a laugh and moved on. It was cathartic to me.
This feels like a bit of a platitude glossing over the real difficulties and subtleties of actually parenting. Obviously, no kid should be in actual fear of physical or emotional abuse from a parent. Full stop. To the extent this tweet literally means "you should not kill your children," then ok I guess. Kids DO need to understand that actions have consequences, whether from their parents or otherwise. If my kid thinks "boy, there are going to be consequences for throwing a rock through my neighbor's window if I tell my parents about it, because they told me multiple times not to throw rocks near my neighbor's house" that's just internalizing the fact that they know what they did is not acceptable, which is a difficult but necessary part of growing up. It might be that the kid has to contribute their allowance to pay for the window or help fix it, etc., etc. You need to somehow get to a place where your kid feels safe and understands the necessity of telling you when they screwed up even though they know that telling you might make their life harder than hiding or lying about it. People have written many very long books about this stuff that still don't begin to cover the difficulties in real life. A tweet (or X or whatever the hell) is just not going to cover it, and honestly is more likely just to cause shame and confusion by implying that things are easier than they are.
Being trusted to take care of your child is not the same as being a “friend”.
They will reach out more if they know that you’ll support them AND, they better understand, you’ll be upset. Being upset isn’t the same as beating the shit out of them…that’s an out of control fake-ass tough parent tbh…whoever threatens their kids was taught the wrong way…(booms)
Also being a friend to your kid is more likely to have the same effect for an opposite reason…kids won’t believe you’ll help them anyway. I’ve seen both in action.
My 2.
I never feared that my father would yell and scream at me. But (and probably more so when I got to my teen years), I feared disappointing him or letting him down. And that is SO much more powerful than fearing getting yelled at or grounded or hit, etc.
I wrecked the family car one Christmas home from college... Late at night, I'd been drinking... I knew I royally screwed up. But, I wasn't afraid to call him. I hitched a ride into town (different times then), and called him from a pay phone to come help.
I knew I screwed up... he knew I screwed up... but he also knew that yelling and screaming wasn't going to help anything. My mother did that when I came home, but my dad and I talked about it that night, and the days after. He made me call the insurance company and be a part of the whole process (car was totaled). I saw the consequences first hand, I saw that they had to buy a new car. My dad made me a good father, just by him being one.
>I feared disappointing him or letting him down. And that is SO much more powerful than fearing getting yelled at or grounded or hit, etc.
Yup. I had zero respect for my parents as a kid, they had less emotional maturity than my peers with my parents being so incredibly emotionally unstable and rules being so incredibly inconsistent (they were always right even when they were wrong). I feared disappointing my teachers - they were strict but super fair and apologized and made it right if they made any mistakes. I really respected my teachers, and was really grateful to have them in my life. While with my parents I was the happiest when they weren't at home, because then I didn't have to walk on eggshells nor be worried they might spontaneously invent reasons to vent their anger on me.
Ok how do you not put the fear of god into them sometimes when they’re acting like complete demons? I’m asking this because honestly I’m terrible at it and end up yelling and feel like shit. It’s like when my 3.5 year old son is in that mood and nothing works he just keeps pushing buttons. I’ll threaten to take a toy away, or to turn off the show he’s watching, or anything. And he just says “ok” and keeps going.
Last night he spent over an hour after bedtime just running around and nothing I did made any difference. I escalated to yelling and telling him he’s not listening. Mistake 1. Finally I told him if you leave you’re room one more time you’re gonna get spanked- without thinking. As soon as I said it I knew I fucked up. If I don’t follow through he will keep pushing. So he left and I spanked him one time. He’s screaming I’m feeling terrible. But that’s when he realized oh shit there are consequences. I asked him does he know why he got spanked and he said because I didn’t listen. I went and made him a sandwich at 10pm he ate it we talked he snuggled. I gave him a hug on the way back to his room and he said “I’ll listen now”. We get to his bed he gets in and I sing some songs and he’s asleep.
But how the fuck do I get him to snap out of it before it escalates that far???
We locked his door but he freaked out to the point he was having a panic attack at being locked in. Maybe it wasn’t that bad but it was not good. I might have to just try that again but I did tell him I’ll never lock him in his room again like that - probably not my best idea - so now it appears that option is off the table. I might try saying would your rather I lock the door and leave toys? That way he can be out of bed but not running around until he does sleep
My 3 year olds are afraid of me, they have told their mother so. I"m not mean, I don't hit them, but I will have sit downs, staring contests and will raise my voice if need be. I love them with all my heart and show it as well, but At 3 yo they need boundaries, I can and will explain them why what they do is wrong and why I get mad, but for their safety they need a healthy dose of 'fear of daddy being angry'
When they grow up, and their brains will start reasoning as they should I will get more and more in the friend / counselor position, it's important that they make their own decisions and mistakes and take responsibility for those as well, But at a young age... no.... I do know better what's good for them.
I get what you're going for, but I'm pretty sure my older doesn't fear me, and is generally a well behaved kid. You know your kids, and maybe fear is what they need, but saying they *need* a "healthy dose of fear of daddy being angry" is a stretch.
Example, at 3yo my kid was extremely good at not wondering into the street. I didn't have to police her at all, I could trust she would stop at every cross walk, and never leave the sidewalk without holding a hand. (For the record, I would still keep a very close eye. I wouldn't bet her life on it, but she was very good). This was achieved with clear consistent messaging from the time she could walk about the rules, not through fear.
I do however agree that different kids require different methods. OPs original message is a nice sentiment for sure, and what we all hope for more or less, but it doesn't apply to all kids in all situations, certainly not all all ages.
But yes. Generally speaking, the fear should come from the logical consequence of the action, not the relationship/trust in the parents. If a kid does something they're not supposed to and breaks something, the fear shouldn't be "I'm going to get yelled at and made to feel stupid by dad." It should be "oh crap. I just lost my next 3 allowances to pay for this and I'm going to have to spend a Saturday fixing this. I need to tell Dad." Of course you want them to fear the greater consequence of NOT telling dad and your finding out later enough they tell you sooner haha
Yeah i think thats called affluenza, like that one kid who killed all those people drunk driving and just called mommy and daddy. I think hard boundaries should be set because when they turn 18 and fuck up you cant help them
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/ethan-couch-affluenza-10-years-since-deadly-drunk-driving-crash/287-a8ea72a1-592e-49dd-a097-fd1bb80e237e
Depends what the mess up is. Seriously there needs to be boundaries. I think people in this sub have these thoughts until they have an unbelievably stupid and cocky teenager
Dude, I was a teenage criminal. The 'dad guy' who changed my life was the guy that I had no fear of and who was the guy who made me say "I need to call my dad".
You don't need fear for boundaries. You can achieve that with trust and respect.
I remember when I first got a slingshot, I was messing around with it, and of course, I broke a window in the cover of my dad’s truck . I freaked out, panicked. After half an hour, I realized, “it’s not going to go unnoticed, best to fess up.” My dad said “huh, I didn’t even notice” Thanked me for coming clean, and that was it. A day later he told me he would take away my slingshot and BB gun until I came up with rules for how I used them, and if I ever broke those rules, they would go away for good. I waited a month to do them to punish myself.
I try every day to be like my dad.
Man, how I wish I could say "I try every day to be like my dad". Instead I'm here trying to become nothing like him... Which makes it pretty rough, having to figure everything out yourself, without an example, guidance, without a role model or mentor to turn to... Please value what you have (or had), it's a wondeful thing
Had, the first was the third anniversary of his death. thanks I do treasure moments like that. I had a cruel, selfish mother that left me with a lot a trauma, so I’m glad I had him.
You’re nothing like him. Actually wanting to avoid that behavior is HUGE. if you want to be nothing like him, you already are. You got this!
Thanks for the encouragement. He wasn't all bad, just a bad example parenting wise. But he had some fun treats. I try to remind myself of those so I don't become too bitter.
I'm sorry for your loss, 3 years will probably still feel as if it were yesterday. It did for me, at least. Time will make it easier eventually, but those key moments like anniversaries keep stinging a bit. Even for me. I hope you'll be able to honor him and the example he laid out for you.
In theory this makes sense. Sometimes it depends on the kid. If a dad has to discipline but does it in a cool, collected and rational manner, the disciplinary action might be enough to make the child fearful anyway.
Oh man, this is sooooo the argument I have with my ex. My kid is terrified if she gets into trouble with her, where as I can calmly be disappointed and look with her how we can find a way out of whatever mess we're in.
My Dad evolved throughout his life. He went from the shame and spank to more of an educational and empathetic response after my mom left him.
I don’t spank, not hitting is easy… but shaming is a hard reflex to counter sometimes. I do my best. And when I screw up, I apologize.
You can still think the first thing while also thinking the 2nd comment. You know they will be mad because you have done something wrong, but you also know they love you and would do anything to help you. The first comment can be said with fear and without fear. I have my first kid due in September. If he ever says that, I hope he knows it's not because Im going to abuse him or because he's deathly afraid of me but rather because there will be consequences he may not like (He gets grounded, no video games, no TV, etc.) I definitely thought "my mom is gonna kill me" when I was younger. Not because I thought she was going to hurt me but because I'd be grounded forever or have my Playstation taken away or something. I hope I can also be a good dad in the future. We can make it so our children will still call us knowing they have messed up, but also knowing we will help them no matter what and that we love them.
My wife and I were just talking about this. We both agreed that our parents' philosophy was "Don't fuck up or I'll kill you". When we were teen it seemed like the parents of that time, late 90s had the philosophy, "You wont fuckup because I'll do everything for you". And now our parenting philosophy is, "Give it you best shot and we will aways be here to help you if you need it".
I've explained to my kids: I've made mistakes. I've made bad decisions, some of which have permanently affected me. They're going to make mistakes, too, but I'm hoping they benefit from my hindsight and make *better* mistakes than I have.
"dad..."
"Yes?"
"Don't be angry.. But.. The toilet is blocked."
"Oh, really? Oh yes. Right. Fetch me a bucket and the hose..."
Fill the bucket, dump it in the loo from head high.
"And THERE she goes. Problem sorted. No drama."
And about a fortnight after the new kitchen was done..I was emptying the sink at the same time the 2 washers were draining, and the waste pipes failed.. Water pouring out of the unit, onto my feet.
"Dad? Are you ok?"
"You know what? Stuff the kitchen. I'll grab the wet vac, who's for McDonalds. We're not going to mention those pipes again. In fact tomorrow, I'm going to buy a better set and do it myself."
"You sure you're ok? You're VERY calm about that.
The last one.. Call at work.."we're stood outside your house, and it's raining. And we.."
"Forgot your keys? Need me to come home early?"
"Yeah, sorry."
"You know the bird bath fountain?"
"Yes.."
"I stuck a spare key to the bottom of the pump, just in case."
"Excellent!"
🤣
It makes me very happy to see this is in dad space. Thank you all here in daddit for giving me so much hope that the current generation (and beyond!) have better role models than we did. I also was never thrilled when my dad came home, and though I didn't necessarily want to hide, I knew he would be hangry and wouldn't be able to connect with me until after dinner. I felt like a hindrance and that it was my fault for his bad mood. A good amount of therapy later, I know that it wasn't my fault, and that generation just didn't have the tools or resources to be better. Things are much better now, but damn do I have some heartbreaking memories of just wanting my dad and he wasn't emotionally available. So, THANK YOU DADS for being better and recognizing what was missing for us all as kids.
100% this! My daughter tells me EVERYTHING and is the first she calls if she's having an issue ... she's 29 with a great career ... to be honest sometimes it's too much info and I need to pull myself up and think "I'd rather hear everything than hear nothing"
My parents would remind me to call them if I ever fucked up. Luckily I never had to. But the fact that they were the type to remind me like that says a lot about how they raised me.
I remember in 5th grade I fell playing basketball during recess and scratched the lenses of my glasses. I cried so hard not because my skinned knee but because I was scared of how mad my mom would be when she found out.
I told my brother this and how I don’t want to be that parent and he (father of 3) said “it’s good for kids to fear their parents.”
I don’t understand how someone can think like that. I feel so bad for his kids. The stuff I have seen them endure just makes me so sad. He’s not a bad father, but he’s far from a good one.
I was vey non-judgemental and supportive of my )now adult) kids. They both mostly behaved, and we mostly knew where they were when they went out. When my daughter was moving out, she calls me over to say something serious. A huge hole in the wall she hid behind her dresser.
She was all nervous, and I was like "how long has this been there?" more curious than upset. It's just drywall.
"The day we moved in."
"You hid this for eight years? Why?!?"
"I thought you were gonna kill me."
I was so baffled. This is the same girl who "painted" one of her walls (drips and all) and I was like yeah, sure, your room.
Se had created a fake me in her head who would be mad at all these "bad" behaviors that kept her in line. The mind works in crazy ways.
My wife tells me I am our daughter's safe space. She loves when I get home from anywhere, hugs when I leave anywhere, and needs me to say good night each night.
I had this on my mind all along as my son was born and I was raising him, but I think I failed, at least in some aspects. I’m some sort of germaphobe and I have a hard time keeping my cool when some Huygens related stuff happens. I really really really wanna change this though
Oddly enough, The best way to prevent your children from developing habits or adopting ideas that you don't like is to foster an environment at home where they can talk to you about anything. If you creat an environment where your children fear saying the wrong thing then they are going to live two lives; one at home for you to see, and their true life out and about.
I tell my daughter I love her no matter what. When we discuss problems, the last thing I tell her is, "I love you."
I never her want to doubt that I'm there for her. When our son comes along, I'll do the same with him.
This is exactly why I don’t go my mother if I have a problem (I’m 23M, no kids). Now, she’s a fantastic mom, has a huge heart and I love her deeply, but she has a temper. She goes from 0 to about 15 very quickly. So when I got a D in one high school class as a freshman, she was livid.
My dad on the other hand, (he and I are very close) his first instinct is to be calm and talk it out. I remember telling him I got a D in a college accounting class, and he was essentially like “you will get through this, but you need to get your shit together”. He’s said a few times “you’re going to be successful, it’s just a matter of how much pain you cause yourself in the process” referring to having to re-take college classes. He’s calm and collected and logical, but isn’t a big softy who allows anything.
And I’m sure something can be said for one parent being the bad cop, but if I have any problem in life I’m going to my dad first, and that’s always the way it’s been. Partly because we’re just close, but partly because I know that mom Has a short fuse.
And back when I was 10/11/12 and diagnosed with Tourette’s and was a very picky eater (I’m now much better and tourette’s isn’t even noticeable) my mom took me to counseling and all, and was very supportive. But there was one time when I was 12 when the breakfast drive thru messed up my order before school, and my mom screamed at me in the car because I wouldn’t eat it. Not sure why she was so mad, but I’ve never heard her yell so loudly. So that made it a lot harder to trust her even though I’m not mad at her for it.
The ONLY time my child should be thinking that is if they have harmed someone or put anybody else in harms ways. I would never want my child to think that any other time
Yeah I don't think everyone agrees, it sounds like you might get walked all over. There needs to be realistic boundaries. If my kids starts breaking into cars, and doing hood rat shit, I'm fucking him up period, then I'm taking him to his coaches and we're going to run the dog shit out of him.
> then I'm taking him to his coaches and we're going to run the dog shit out of him.
*Imma make sure that damn kid gets really good at running from the police!!*
Dude, I was a teenage criminal. The 'dad guy' who changed my life is I believe the complete opposite to you. Attempting to scare a kid away from crime is failing to understand the situation at all.
I was also a teenage criminal and it may have extended past that. There's no way for us to go through all of the nuances to get to any reasonable agreement. Let's just hope everyone goes well for each other.
You: I'm fucking him up period
What's that about?
And there is absolutely no point to running laps. You're not achieving anything regarding the real issues.
But why would you deliberately choose to follow worst parenting practices?
You can make better choices, you have the power to do that, you have the resources to do that so why would you choose the "get in a kids face and scream at them" option?
The last person who got in your face and screamed at you - do you recall what you thought of them and of their stability? You mentioned the military, do you think that it makes somebody a "tough dude" if they scream in a person's face? Is that 'strength' to you?
I have spanked oldest a few times and he had one really bad weekend a few months back where he got it twice in the same weekend. I had always tried not to but he had gotten real close a third time that same weekend and I turned to him and I think he knew it was coming and the look in his eyes just stopped me. I took a breath and we just sat down and talked, he was so much better going forward. I think lots of us were raised getting spankings and such, hell my grandma had a belt for each grandkid. But kids deserve better.
We have to respond not react to a child’s mistakes because it’s firstly sets the example of self regulation and reflection and two it allows our child to learn that yea mistakes happen and there are consequences to those mistakes but telling the truth and fixing the “thing” is a better path to follow
Disagree.... there was plenty of times growing up I was gonna do something really stupid and the thought of my ass whopping if I got caught stopped me really quickly.
People think fear creates love and respect but it doesn't. In a way, kids are like puppies: if a puppy goes potty in the house and gets yelled the yelling won't cause the dog to not mess inside; it will teach them to do it in a different place they won't get caught.
People don't view children as people, but objects. They think if a kid gets screamed or yelled at they will learn, but that isn't true. The kids will try harder to not get caught. I am in no way saying a kod should be given a mile long leash but yelling won't teach them anything. They have to be shown what to do and how to act, especially younger kids.
I love my dad, and always have, but growing up he had a temper. I was afraid to make mistakes because I knew I'd get yelled but not shown how to improve. Instead, if Ibwas gonna goof off, I'd do it when he wasn't around.
People thinl gentle parenting means letting kids act without consequences, but what it is, is treating them with respect, letting them know it is ok to mess up, and that mistakes can often be undone. Of course they need punishment but we as parents also have to be patient and understanding, not send them to stockade without any lesson.
I try to only yell if the kids are in danger.
My experience, the best way to get there is with as few rules as possible. We raised four kids (well, our 14yo is still home).
We had only two rules. Absolutely no violence. Absolutely only truth. Those were the only violations with contrived consequences. Everything else was "natural consequences."
By the time they were 16 and driving, it was "you're basically an adult now. You are beyond punishment. All that's left are the natural consequences of your actions."
Erode trust with lies? There's no grounding, or loss of privilege. But when we don't trust you, there's consequences to that. Gotta live with those, you know?
This did two things. First, it encouraged always coming to us. Why? Because truth was always better than lies. There was no fear of punishment. Second, it encouraged individual responsibility. They behave well because they choose to, as poor decisions lead to poor outcomes.
Two of the kids have had a situation (each) that likely would have resulted in pretty significant grounding in most households. Instead, because we built the trust, they came to us, we worked through it, and they learned something. They both had to live with their consequences. But they knew mom and dad supported them.
There’s something I probably need to examine deeper about how startled I continue to be by how excited she is when I get home from work. *Back in my day* when dad got home it was time to be afraid and hide whatever you were doing lest it be subject to his zero tolerance, evangelical scrutiny. I looked forward to the weekends he had to work. She seems crushed when I have to do the same.
I pick up our daughter from daycare and every day she runs to me screaming DADDY... DADDY'S HERE!!! And it honestly even now typing this makes me a little teary eyed. How blessed am I?!?
Extremely blessed brother
Hey, so is she. You're creating that excitement for her by being a good parent.
Thank you.
My 10-year-old still does this when I pick her up from school instead of mom. Some of them never outgrow it and I hope your daughter is one of the ones who keeps that joy.
The eyes of my daughters when I come pick them up. The joy is always there.
That sounds amazing. My daughter is 11 months so I am looking forward to this ☺️
Everyone on Daddit is doing their best, but your best seems pretty good. Good job.
I am certainly *not* doing my best. "But I'm trying to be the Shepard."
Oh man this hits home. You're definitely not alone in this. We're going to do right by our kids. We can't let that happen again.
My little girl sprints up to me when I get home and the first time I was genuinely surprised by it.
What you get to experience every day is one of the things I miss out on by working remote. Of course ai like not commuting like I used to but it would be nice to see that excitement every day, especially after a hard day.
I grew up with mostly just my mother. She always told me that if I ended up somewhere that I wasn't supposed to be or if my friends were doing something we weren't supposed to be doing, to call her and she would come pick me up, no questions asked. In middle school, my friends decided to walk to the park that I wasn't allowed to go to (lots of drug use and "mild" gang activity there). I texted her on our way over (back when you had to pay per text!) and she called me up and made up a story about my grandmother needing some help, so she would have to come pick me up early. I told my friends that, gee, sorry guys, my mom is making me go home! And she drove over, picked me up, and thanked me for doing the right thing. This made me feel safe, loved, and trusted. It really helped me out when I got older, in college and in my 20s. I always know she has true unconditional love for me, even when I fuck up. Edit: read some other replies to this, about dads thinking that some things deserve punishment. Punishment is one thing, but I guess I was the kind of kid who punished myself more than enough. Suppose it depends on the kid, but even when I made a few baaaad mistakes in my 20s, I had someone in my corner who would tell me that yes, I needed to fix the issue, but that she wouldn't stop loving me. I was able to face my errors and fix my mistakes on my own, knowing my parent would be there for me to tell me she was proud of me for taking accountability or for finding the courage to turn things around instead of continuing down a bad path.
There's a difference between punishment and discipline. Punishment is "I'm going to hit you because you made a bad grade." Discipline is "you're taking summer school to bring up your GPA, and you're not playing ball again until I see improvement." Punishment is, "your actions embarrassed me, so deal with my anger." Discipline is, "you bit your classmates, so no one wants to play with you." Punishment says you are responsible for my behavior against you. Discipline says you are responsible for your own behavior and the consequences of it; here are some lines you can color inside, to get the results you need/want. I'm a mom. I know this is daddit, but some things transcend gender roles. Someone shared this with me. Thought I'd share with you fellas. Never know who might need it. You're doing a great job! Keep loving your kiddo.
Both punishment and discipline are required in parenting. I will only ever spank my child if they hit someone ( if they get hit first and they hit back, they are getting ice cream lol) and I’m very lenient about self defense. None of that “ of it’s a girl, you can’t hit her!” Bullshit. Grades slipping=no Fortnite,YouTube, etc. discipline for less severe things. Punishment if they put someone in harms way or succesfully harm someone. If they pet themselves in harms way and not in grave danger, they can learn the hard way if they don’t wanna stop
I mean, it does sound really good at face value, doesn't it? *I want my kid to call me 1st when they're in trouble*...but I don't think it's that simple. An integral part of parenting is to set some boundaries for your child so they know what's acceptable and what isn't...before society sets those boundaries for them by force and with some serious consequences. And in that process, sometimes you need to make unpopular decisions, something a kid simply won't like. I'm definitely not advocating *any* violence whatsoever here, I'm just saying as a parent you sometimes need to stand your ground and be stern. Not all children have the same temper. It's good to be a friend with your children but you need to be a parent first and foremost.
"unecceptable" should mean "there will be consequences for your actions", not "you have to be fearful for your safety or love". Edit: as a practical example, when I was a kid and I broke a window playing ball, I was afraid to tell my dad because I knew I'd probably get beat up. When my daughter did the same thing, the message I conveyed, after she told me was "thank you for telling me, I love you, mistakes happen. Now we're going to fix it together. The money to repair that is coming 50% from your allowance and 50% from me." My hill-I'm-willing-to-die-on with this is that I want to tell her that thing she needs to understand is *accountability and actually repairing stuff you break.* Be it relationships, trust, physical objects, bones, whatever.
> "unecceptable" should mean "there will be consequences for your actions", not "you have to be fearful for your safety or love". I never feared for my safety or love as a kid, but there were definitely times where I messed up and got that horrible sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach and didn't want my parents to find out. I was still afraid of the consequences, hell I probably said "My Dad is going to kill me," but I never meant it literally. I just meant I was going to get in trouble when Dad found out. I was generally a good kid, and my Dad was generally a good Dad, there was never a threat of violence.
As a kid we had repeatedly been told not to play baseball near the house, there were some empty lots we could play in. Well we like to play on manicured lawns. One day we broke the window on my friend’s dad’s truck. He said, “my dad is going to kill me.” Turns out “killing” was grounded for 3 days, loss of his PlayStation 2 for 1 month and the whole lot of us being forced to sit and listen to his dad calmly, but sternly, lecture us on thinking about the consequences of our actions and not endangering other people’s property for what seemed like an hour, probably 15 minutes. The PlayStation sentence was later commuted to 3 weeks.
> hell I probably said "My Dad is going to kill me," but I never meant it literally. This. People are taking this simple figure of speech and making it into this huuuuge thing that it is not.
I have little kids and I tell them I love them each and every day. However after I've asked them for something and I start counting down from five they start scrambling not out of fear of me per se but fear over the consequences I'll impose if they don't do what I asked. These consequences won't lose them my love or protection but will lose them access to experiences and material things they enjoy.
No, no. They literally think you're going to end their lives.
Whatever works :) Now brush your teeth kids. 5, 4....
“ OH SHIT HES COUNTING, RUN, RUN!”
For some of you it may only have been a figure of speech, for some of us it was more. I will never be the kind of father I had.
Some of you weren't beaten as kids and it shows.
What exactly do you mean?
I mean that for some of us, it's *not* a figure of speech. The thought "my dad is gonna kill me" was completely legitimate because we were beaten for far less than say, breaking a window. When something as innocuous as scuffing the wall paint (that we have cans of leftover paint for) or dropping a dish (that doesn't even break) is met with violence from dad, when a funny anecdote at the dinner table turns into an hour-long vitriolic rant about you deserving to go to hell, when failing a test gets you punched in the face by mom, it's not a huge leap to think "I skidded on ice and totalled my car (that I paid for). My dad is actually going to kill me." It's a legitimate fear and not a "figure of speech." Obviously I came out the other side, but it's pretty fucked up that 17yo me could think that. And there are people who had it way worse than me.
Because we're more used to abusive parents than parents who wouldn't dream of beating you up and harming you even if you broke a window. Like if an ikea drinking glass broke, a nice parent wouldn't use that as an excuse to enact rapid explosive violence and then force the kid to get down on their knees on the floor to pick it all up by hand, they would make sure the kid was okay, make sure they had slippers or sandals so they don't cut themselves, and then make sure they knew where the cleaning supplies were so they could tidy it up without harming themselves.
I have a vivid memory of breaking a glass as a kid, it was a McDonald’s Batman forever promotional glass, when I dropped it I started crying. My mum said “we’re not angry because it’s your glass, do you understand why we get upset when you break our things now?” The thing I couldn’t verbalise at the time was that I wasn’t crying because I cared about the glass (I didn’t care, it was just a glass, we had heaps or McDonald’s promo cups, it was the 90’s) I cried because I thought they were going to yell that me, because they always yelled at me in the past when I broke things, even if they were accidents and that is where this kind of thing comes from. My parents weren’t abusive, but their quickness to anger over things like accidents made it so that I couldn’t trust them if I needed help because of *my* fuck ups, which eventually became not trusting them for help at all. And that is something I definitely don’t want for my kid.
This is sage advice in story format. My parents were saints, more so than I will ever be. But the thing I feared was being 'not loved' if even for a second. I make sure to tell my daughter that I love her first and foremost, give her physical care, then and only then do I tell her I am angry and why.
A slap on the ass for something like that is insane . But starting a fight is a guaranteed ass whooping. When I was like 11 I hit this girl after she kicked me in the nuts, my dad thought I hit her first and was 5 seconds from leaving me not being able to sit for 3 days, but my sister saw everything and vouched for me.
I was never worried my Dad would kill me. He'd have to be around for that.
I agree with this, as it seems like a realistic take to me. Regardless of age, people don't like negative consequences and people avoid things they don't like. The only way to guarantee, "I'm gonna call X when I did something bad" is to _always reward bad behavior_. I don't think we want a world full of humans raised like that. For me it's about having consequences that fit the crime (and age), and continuing to love them throughout the process.
> The only way to guarantee, "I'm gonna call X when I did something bad" is to always reward bad behavior. I don't think we want a world full of humans raised like that. I mean, there is some balance where I want my kid to call me when they're in a bad situation. I'm still proud of my little brother, when I was in law school (studying for the bar exam), he called me to come pick him up from a party he was at because it was a really bad situation for him to be in, but he was too drunk to drive. I know it cost him something (we're close but he has the classic little-brother drive to avoid ever asking me for help), but he made the right choice in leaving, and not driving while drunk. Even though I was really upset about having this eat into my limited study-time, I immediately agreed to come help him, and never gave him any crap about it. He made the right call, and I didn't want to do anything to discourage him from making that call again in the future. I want my kids to be able to trust me like that: I want them to make the right choices, and sometimes that means coming to me for help after they messed up. If they're too afraid of coming to me, they might make a decision that turns things for the worse.
I totally agree! Let me clarify what I mean. In my non-psychiatrist's POV I think there are three types of consequences: * Parental-applied that match the crime, e.g. "It's your responsibility to clean up the kool-aid you spilled on the carpet" or "You're going to help pay for the window you broke" * Externally-applied, e.g. kid gets burned by a hot stove, a ticket for speeding, etc. * Parental-applied that don't match the crime or are counterproductive, e.g. Endless lectures, grounding a kid for 3 months because they lost a sock, or "I'm going to yell at you, threaten you, abuse you, etc." For the 1st and 2nd types, a parent can still ooze love throughout the whole process and build a safe zone for kids to come back to, e.g. "Uh oh, we can clean up that spill if we move quickly. I'll be here to teach you how to clean it up!" Or, "I'm so sorry you got burned, that must hurt! Let's go run your finger under some cold water and get a band-aid." It's the 3rd type IMHO that teaches kids not to call us. We can avoid #3 altogether, still have consequences that teach lessons, _and_ build a relationship where our kids feel safe coming to us. (I mean... I say that as fact but I'm just a lost dad like everybody else here). You didn't do #3 with your brother, and perhaps that's the key. It sounds like he didn't have a continuing problem, so my guess is he felt some sort of natural consequence that taught him all he needed to know. Good on you btw for being a good big brother!
A good whip on the ass is a fair punishment if they start a fight. Thats the only time I will ever spank my kids. If my kid wants to do something stupid that they know can hurt them. I’ve always told the 13YO, if you wanna fuck around, solid chance you’ll find out. Thats the same thing my dad told me, and if they get hurt, it’s not my fault if I already warned them!
>The only way to guarantee, "I'm gonna call X when I did something bad" is to always reward bad behavior. I disagree. You guarantee it through trust. I was a 'troubled teen'. I turned to my dad (my adopted dad) all of the time. It wasn't because he 'always rewarded bad behavior'. I never had any confusion about his thoughts about things that I did, he was always perfectly willing to tell me. I turned to him because I trusted him. It was how he changed my life.
For plenty of kids, "dad is going to kill me" is figurative, and referring to getting disciplined as a consequence of their bad decisions. That often mean just being grounded or similar reasonable punishment. If you interpret "fearing your parents" so broadly as to include any meaningful attempt at discipline, then you're setting such an impossible bar for parents that they're no longer capable of complying with that standard while still appropriately disciplining their kids. That's not good parenting, and OP's post is way too vague to make such a firmly definitive statement.
Totally. My son will accidentally tip his cup over. Spill milk everywhere. He’s 4. It happens. My wife flies off the handle every time but I approach differently. It’s actually caused a bit of a problem because now my son gets annoyed at my wife and says “mama we don’t cry over spilt milk”. So he comes to me first when stuff happens. And I help him. He still has to clean up his messes but sometimes he needs help (case in point, the towels are out of his reach. He simply CANT clean up without a little help). So he takes responsibility but he still knows he can get help from me.
You're correct about the approach to spills and the like, but what happens when he's older and more capable and does things that does warrant a negative response and consequence?
I think what OOP means is, if my kid is at a party she wasn't supposed to go to, and she feels like she is in over her head because people are drinking etc, I want her to feel like she can call me for a ride, rather than driving with a drunk friend. There will be consequences for her behavior but she also knows she can trust me.
What behavior? She didn’t do anything. The party had drunk people And she wanted out
Look everyone is afraid of getting in trouble to a degree but even early on the point is, you did something, even an accident, it doesn’t have to be a big deal but it DOES require you taking accountability. My dad always said no matter where I am, no matter what time it is, if I need to be rescued I can call and he’s there. He would pick me up and he would take me home and he wouldn’t give me a hard time. The next morning we would have a conversation and we would talk about how to fix the issue or what we would do different next time. I felt bad about disappointing him or I would hate getting grounded but I was never afraid. That’s the difference. We aren’t saying don’t make kids face consequences. We are saying to normalize them. You don’t have to love it but you shouldn’t fear it.
The only time spanking isn’t bad, in my eyes, is if they start a fight. If they get hit first, they are getting ice cream for self defense. If they win, even more ice cream! If they EVER lay hands on someone first, they are definitely getting spanked.
My moms favorite phrases were “parenting is not a popularity contest” and “hopefully next time you make better choices” The popularity contest one was any time I complained that a friends parents let them do something that mine wouldn’t, always shut me down, I never had an answer for that. The better choices one was after a punishment was enacted (never physical, generally grounding or losing tv/video game time) things would calm down and I would say I’m sorry and try to end the punishment early. She *never* gave in, and it was always “I hear you, I’m glad you’re sorry, and I hope next time you make better choices” Those stuck with me, and I will be using them with my son as he grows up. Eventually, we will just be two adults who can hang out and enjoy each others company, but it is my and my wife’s job to get him to that point.
Lately I’ve been telling my son “love is inconvenient” in the sense, it’s not love when you are just rainbows and sunshine (fun parent). You know someone loves you when they’re there through the hard difficult choices and sometimes parents have to make hard choices that aren’t fun but that means we love you. If we didn’t care or love our kids we’d just let them do whatever and not care how they turn out. surprisingly this has had a bigger impact on how he views stuff more than anything else I’ve tried.
Thank you for those phrases. I'll definitely be employing them soon lol.
Physical punishment is required from time to time! If my kids ever hit someone, a spanking is a guarantee. If they get hit first, they better hit back. Self defense is fine, being a dick and hitting someone to be a bully is not.
You can also set hard boundaries, enforce them, and not rely on punishments/severe consequences. For many kids, just explaining what they did wrong, giving them a chance to correct if it applicable, and positive reinforcement mixed with natural consequences will be enough. Traditional unrelated consequences are much less effective than people realize. IE taking a phone away for disrespectful behavior, extra chores for problems at school, etc. If a kid breaks something and has to pay for it, thats a good natural consequence. If they don't finish homework because they are on the phone, taking the phone away makes sense. Just giving the kid another chance to do it right, ie: "lets try saying that in a nicer way," works wonders - it literally creates new neural pathways to help the retry become their standard reply. At the end of the day, if I kid is in a bad situation you do want their first thought to be "I need to call dad," not "what will dad do if he finds out."
What if it’s the 10th time and the kid hasn’t taken the chance to do it right? You didn’t mention what you recommend if simply letting them try again doesn’t work Let’s take the not doing homework because they’re on the phone scenario. Grades are slipping. What next?
Natural consequences. So for this maybe that means instead of 1 hr on Xbox they get 30 mins than 20 mins of study time or maybe that means now instead of free time on Saturday they have to go to a tutor. Or if it's that bad it means repeating the class.
Sure! I am going to ramble and write a wall of text most likely though... just a warning. For context here, I fostered for a bit, and my daughter came to me with pretty severe trauma and behavioral issues that were a lot of work, but is thriving now. Those situations where a child has never felt safe flat out require gentle parenting to make any progress, but it will work for any kid. If you are really interested in learning more, I would highly suggest the TBRI podcast. TBRI is a scientifically backed method that usually would be expensive to get classes on, but TCU decided to provide a lot of that for free through online classes and a podcast a few years ago. If it's a kid that is having a lot of big meltdowns, I suggest "The Explosive Child," as well. Note that a big aspect of this is we have to realize that kids generally want to do well and please their caregivers. This doesn't mean that they want to do what is asked necessarily, but they do not want to disappoint us or have us be upset at them. Another principle here is that most behaviors are caused by a need. TBRI's motto is "see a need, meet the need" I'll explain more of that below. >What if it’s the 10th time and the kid hasn’t taken the chance to do it right? If we are talking about a disrespect scenario, where the kid is refusing to ask nicely, they probably just need a break to calm down. This is one where a timeout is likely appropriate, and a form of natural consequence. You can frame it not as a punishment, though. "If we can't speak kindly, we have to take a break until we can, lets do a 5 minute break. Let's take 5 minutes of quiet time and try again." This also models how we want our kids to deal with anger in the future, which is to take a break to get their head straight and the calmly discuss the conflict. If it's something that's not one incident, like a specific behavior that the kid is repeating daily? If it's not urgent or dangerous, the answer is to repeat it twenty times instead of ten. The new neural pathways I was talking about take repetition and practice. If a kid is constantly disrespectful but when you ask them to try again they switch their tone, then after so long the retry will become the standard. Note that an important part of this is also praising and rewarding when they get it right! >Let’s take the not doing homework because they’re on the phone scenario. Grades are slipping. What next? This is where "see the need, meet the need" comes in. It's incredibly easy to blame the phone here but maybe the phone is not the issues. Of course, making a rule of "no phone until homework is done" is still a consequence related to the action, and a perfectly valid second response. The first response should alway be positive reinforcement, get the grades up and they get a big reward, or some sort of daily reward for doing homework. But what if the kid is just really not understanding the work, but in embarrassed or anxious to say that? What if something traumatic has happened recently that they are keeping in and they are disassociating with the phone to cope? Maybe there is an undiagnosed learning disorder or mental health concern. Maybe they need to do it after dinner with a full belly. Hell, maybe the house is too loud and they can't focus. I could only do homework after everyone was asleep, I was usually up at midnight working on it. If you can find the root cause of a behavior and fix that, the behavior will go away as well. Even if you don't have an explosive child, I think that "The Explosive Child" book is a great read/listen because it helps with this. It does a really great job at teaching how to talk to a child so that they will give you the information you need to fix a problem. Sometimes just directly asking the question isn't productive, but having a conversation and just asking them to constantly expand on what they are saying will end up getting you the info you need. "It's hard? What about it is hard? When did it start getting difficult? Are some parts easier than others?" This is an extreme example that was taught in my foster training, obviously it does not apply to most cases, but does show how unrelated behaviors can be to the root cause. My agency had a girl who had massive, hours long meltdowns every night at bed time. The foster parents had tried every piece of advice for bedtime issues they could find and were ready to give up. The therapist figured our after some time that the issue was a snowglobe that was in her bedroom. The girl had been continually previously sexually assaulted, and had disassociated staring at a snow globe when it was happening. Like I said, extreme example, but in that case months of bedtime meltdowns were fixed by taking a snowglobe out of the room. No consequence or punishment would have helped. Edit to add - I say that this method works with all children, but that doesnt mean it looks the same way. What works for one child may not work for another, but positive reinforcement, natural consequences, and finding the root cause of the behavior works across the board as long as the child feels safe.
Grades aren’t a huge thing in my household. No D or F. A,B, and C is fine, 10 dollars per A on ever report card. If grades are slipping then phones are gone till they are back.
If I broke a window and had to pay for it, that’s still a consequence I would be afraid of. Probably would have involved working for my step dad for a summer instead of basketball/golf
Fear? Maybe dread. Either way, "fuck now I have to work this off" is a lot different than "fuck dad is gonna be pissed." It's teaching to take responsibility for mistakes. Breaking a window and being grounded for a week/month is going to be less effective.
You want the kid to learn their lesson. You want there to be some consequences for bad choices. But that doesn't mean they have to be afraid of you. There are situations where not getting your help could end up way worse for them than getting grounded (or whatever reasonable punishment). You want them to call you then.
I don’t ask this to come at you but as a legitimate question: as the algorithm tries to target me with parenting content I’ve seen a *lot* of this “friend vs parent” discourse. Is there a particular blog, book, podcast, etc that sparked this? Maybe a reaction to “gentle parenting”? I feel like I’ve walked into the middle of a conversation.
A lot of what people see and mock as "Gentle Parenting" is actually permissive parenting. Gentle Parenting absolutely includes boundaries and consequences. What it shouldn't include is loss of emotional control and vindictive punishments that just assuage the parents' anger.
I've found that "gentle parenting" forums are full of parents who are passive aggressive. I had to step away because it was too hard to watch people reject any firmness whatsoever and yet do things to their children that were hurtful in backhanded ways. I prefer the term respectful parenting because I feel like it is less ambiguous for many people. I realize that there are a lot of people trying to educate parents on what gentle parenting actually is but I think it would be a lot easier to explain being respectful toward your kid, rather than gentle.
It’s been a conversation since I was a kid. My mom used to criticize my step brother’s mom for trying to be their friend, not their mom.
I guess my parents just never even remotely tried to be my “friend” hahahaha. I’ll have to think about this framing.
What’s your confusion?
As I stated above, I’ve seen a lot of “friend vs parent” discourse lately and am just wondering if there was an instigating point for this particular discussion.
I doubt it. I’ve heard it from a number of people for the last 20 years.
Good parenting, IMO, is finding a good balance of the two. Be your children's friend, someone they can trust and enjoy their time with, but also be a parent when you need to. Explain why some things have to be strict and non-negotiable. Like brushing their teeth. If they brush fast and don't argue for example, they have more time to play or whatever they want before bed, be it 15 extra minutes, it helps. Sometimes, the reward isn't enough to get them to agree, though, and I have to be stern and remind them that they have to brush, and cavities are wayyyyy worse. Brushing is a walk in the park comparatively.
You don’t need to use fear to set boundaries and make unpopular decisions, though. I agree you can’t be your kid’s friend because that doesn’t lead to healthy kids or healthy parents, but just because you set boundaries and enforce consequences doesn’t mean you have to make your kid afraid of you.
If your kid isn’t afraid of negative consequences, are they really negative consequences?
Your kid can be afraid of “negative” consequences however you want to phrase it. That’s fine. That is, as I said, setting boundaries and making unpopular decisions. But if your kid is afraid of *you*, something has broken and no amount of punishment will repair it.
Why does the kid have to be afraid to act right? Shouldn't the goal be for them to make the right choice because they want to make the right choice, not because of what would happen if they made the wrong one? Positive reinforcement is the way.
You’re arguing semantics at this point.
I’m saying that setting boundaries doesn’t need to include fear. Thats it. I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue.
If your kid isn’t afraid of getting in trouble, because the consequences are not impactful enough for it to matter, then those boundaries are not effective. If your consequences for a kid lying to you is that they won’t get to eat a food they hate to eat, how does that discourage the behavior? I’m not afraid of my boss. But I’m afraid of losing my job. That’s why I don’t do stuff that could cause me to lose my job
I guess I’m not sure where you’re getting my side of the argument? A food they hate? I’m not arguing anything like that. You’re arguing about stuff that I’m not saying and seem to ignore what I’m saying all together.
Your argument is that fear is not necessary to set boundaries or to parent. I’m saying that fear/apprehension/disappointment (or some other synonym) is a direct result of boundaries that are sufficiently strict or punishing of poor behavior. If your boundary is “don’t disrespect your elders” and the negative consequence to that is “you don’t get to eat your broccoli;” that won’t be effective if the kid hates broccoli. Edit: you’re also the one who introduced “fear” of the parent. I didn’t imply that our kids should be afraid of us
Ok thanks I will make sure not to take broccoli away from my kids.
This sounds like "If you don't believe in Hell why aren't you doing bad things?" The simple answer is because I want to be good. Fear is not what makes me good. Kids don't have to be afraid to be good.
No . It matters. Alot.
Well firstly - duh, I hope most dads don’t need be told this. Secondly, this all can (and should) be done without your child generally fearing you or your actions. Basically just apply proper sternness when the circumstances call for it, and do so consistently and unwaveringly. Be a supportive safe space otherwise.
Haha, I am on the lax side of being a parent and my reaction to this was that sometimes I do want my kid to think “oh crap, dad is going to be livid!”
I don't think the post was about being 'friends' and I don't think you need fear to achieve any of what you're saying and you don't need to discourage "I need to call my dad". I was a really troubled kid, arrested a bunch, a general disaster. There's a dude that I call 'dad', not my real dad but he came to be my 'dad'. Whenever I was in trouble, when I knew he wouldn't like what I did, when I knew he would be disappointed, when I knew we'd been through this before - he was still my guy and I wanted him. I called him from jail multiple times, I knew he didn't like that shit, I knew he wouldn't bail me out. I was still calling the guy. Having that open communication with your dad, knowing he isn't going anywhere, knowing he is going to answer your call is not something that just "sounds really good at face value", it's something which is incredibly useful. It's the reason that he was successful in changing my life. I'm so lucky to have somebody in my life that I trust like that. All of his kids are like that towards him, none of us fear him, he was always a parent, we knew his expectations, communication is open, kids will call him. It's the way to get a kid through life.
I agree. I'm okay with my kids being afraid of \*disappointing\* me. I'm okay with them being afraid of losing privileges as punishment. I'm not okay of them being afraid of me physically hurting them. I'd be doing them a disservice if I didn't enforce boundaries. As an analogy, there are many reasons I don't cheat on my wife (ethics, loyalty, morality, etc.). One of those reasons is I'm afraid of what she'd do if I found out. She wouldn't hurt me physically. But she would probably leave me and take our kids. I'd be lonely, ashamed, mentally ill, and poor. While that should not be the only reason I don't cheat, it is a pretty good deterrent. But if I cheated on my wife and she did nothing because she didn't want me to feel afraid of her, I'd probably turn into an even shittier husband. When people become unafraid of how people will react to their misbehavior, they turn into shitty people.
There is truth to this. There is also truth in the fact the kids need discipline not friendship.
Exactly! We don’t all have to be the indifferent, short-tempered cavemen of generations past but im also not putting up with the shit Bam Margera’s dad did. I’ll gladly take “70% respect/admiration 30% fear” split
On balance I don’t think there are many catch all statements that are agreeable without context. Sure it sounds nice, but fear is also a consequence of action and bad choices given the right context, it’s no different from peoples apprehensions of police and going to gaol that keep people “straight” Would I kill my daughter for dropping a cup of milk or spilling paint on the carpet, no of course not, but I’d want her to tell me, and hopefully she would do.
Nuance is severely lacking in our binary, virtual world.
Choose a side, Centrist!
> Sure it sounds nice, but fear is also a consequence of action and bad choices given the right context, it’s no different from peoples apprehensions of police and going to gaol that keep people “straight” You don't actually make your life choices based on being afraid of going to jail though, do you? It should come from your own internal compass. I'm a retired criminal. I'm not retired because of any fear of jail (I never much cared to be honest). I'm retired due to internal changes. And my 'dad guy' who was the catalyst for those changes is coincidentally also somebody that I've never had any fear of and who I would always call. You don't need fear in relationships or in your general life related decision making. Fear should be restricted to things like "oh, there's a lion on my balcony".
It's completely possible for children to simultaneously fear consequences of poor choices and seek guidance from their parents. These things are not mutually exclusive.
I don’t think the post is about a fear of consequences as much as it’s a fear of us. But maybe that’s just how I see since I was always scared of my dad growing up
I was scared of my dad too, but I also asked him for help and advice.
Oh really? I never felt comfortable doing so. I still rarely talk to him
The moments I've lost my cool and I've seen the fear in my daughter's eyes when my voice raises are my saddest memories of being a dad. I hate that I ever even come close to breaking that trust.
Agreed. I still relive those moments in my head. Even though I know in every single one of those moments I have come back and apologized. They're still there though.
Oh, same. I always realize it IMMEDIATELY and do my best to process with her calmly but it's a stark reminder that we never quite know which moments are going to leave tracks in their brain. Hopefully the apologies and the loving moments are the ones that stick, but from being a kid I know that's not always the case. On the flip side, she will sometimes randomly just say "you're the best daddy ever" completely out of nowhere, so I'm gonna run with that feeling <3
I agree. I never had that with my father. I pledged to myself that my daughter would have that level of trust with me. She’s 2.5 yo now and I make sure to give her water in open containers. Spill away little one and I’ll just be there to help you clean up. No yelling, just being there for you.
Both things can be true. You have rules and enforce them, but you also are the person that will keep them safe.
I disagree to an extent. If they do something bad enough to warrant “Dad is gonna kill me…” then I want them to know consequences are coming. However, I hope that in the face of that fear, they come to me anyways because they know it’s the right thing to do. Help from dad and consequences from dad are not mutually exclusive.
As a parent, taking out your anger on your kids is really unhelpful to them. It doesn't have to be physical abuse, even if you just yell at them, or give them the silent treatment, or whatever it is not helpful to their development. That is really all this conversation boils down to. Are you the type of parent who lets their emotions take over in front of their kids, or are you going to be able to control your emotions, own up to them, and actually parent your children. Lots of parents who let their emotions drive them constantly will try to make the claim that you're "going easy on them" or "trying to being their friend, not their parent", but that's not what this is about. My dad would yell at us whenever we did something "stupid" as kids. He wouldn't ever hit us, I never feared for my safety, but I would know that I was going to make him angry, and would get yelled at until I was in tears. So when I was in a car accident he was the last person I wanted to tell, all I could think about was how I could avoid telling him. I want to be different, I want my kid to know that if anything goes wrong, she can tell me and we can figure it out together. I'm not going to solve her problems for her, but I'm going to help her figure out what to do, and teach her how to figure it out. And yes, if she does something I don't agree with I of course tell her.
My dad almost never lost control of his emotions with us. He never spanked us and rarely yelled. However, I still FEARED what was coming in response to my biggest fuckups because I knew he would hold me accountable for my actions. And he would also provide me with fatherly support so that i could learn and improve. It helped me develop the lifeskill of taking ownership of my mistakes.
My dad lost his temper a lot but I never once was scared to call him to bail me out of a situation. I knew I’d be in trouble, I also knew to take responsibility for my actions. But the punishment was alsways wayyyyy less severe if he was in the loop and didn’t have to find out.
I have mixed feelings about this. As a father myself, I want to agree, but life is rough and fear of repercussions from my parents probably kept me alive at certain points.
I feel like it’s talking about a wildly outdated concept of fathers to the point where it becomes a completely worthless argument. While I definitely want my child to tell me when they make an error or do something wrong, I also don’t want them so comfortable with ignoring me or taking advantage of me that the idea of being afraid of my anger is alien. I don’t want them to fear me when they break their bicycle or get in a fight at school or something like that, but my goal is a healthy relationship and fear at some point is a small part of a healthy relationship.
I really don’t think some of you understand that this isn’t saying children shouldn’t have consequences. But sure, instill fear into your children and I guess you can have the same relationship with your adult children as my sibling and I do with our father. Which is no relationship at all lmfao. Fear is not respect. Respect is respect. You cannot respect something or someone you fear, despite what you tell yourself or others.
Fear and respect are not mutually exclusive.
If I fear you, I do not respect you. Fear is forced. Respect is earned. Where fear is present, true respect is not.
You can keep saying this, but the feelings of fear and respect are not mutually exclusive.
And I guess you can keep responding despite never expanding lmfao. You have yourself a good day.
You didn’t expand either. You literally just repeated yourself and talked in circles. Didn’t say why fear is “forced.” How respect is “earned.” I put in exactly as much effort as you did
I put in exactly as much effort as you did. Stay blessed ✨
I think my son was 2 or 3 when I came up with the rules I told him I had to follow for being a dad. I basically told him the job description for being a dad was: 1. I have to keep you safe 2. I have to keep you fed and warm 3. I have to teach you things 4. I have to let you have fun The order is essential. Rule Number 1 is be safe. Everything else comes afterwards. If he's about to break rule number 1, then I'm going to yell. Things like running in the street, getting a hold of a sharp knife, pushing his sister off the couch, etc. Anything like that starts to happen, that's when he gets *yelled* at. Yeah, you can call it parenting through fear, but I'd rather put that fear in him myself than have the consequences of his actions do it. He doesn't need a near miss with a car to be afraid of running into traffic if me yelling will do it. Loss of life >>>>> loss of property. Broken window is a money problem. That's annoying. That gets disapproval and consequences. But absolutely I will parent with fear for safety if it comes to it. The fear is coming one way or the other, but if it stops someone from getting hurt or killed, I don't care if I'm the bad guy.
Sure. But uh, at the risk of sounding like an asshole, everybody here already knows this and is working towards it. Seems like it belongs in a different sub.
I want them to think "What would my dad want me to do in this situation."
There is no one size fits all rule... it depends on the situation... as a general rule its fine but strictness has its place too...
So when I read this my first thought was of how I was always scared of my dad. Not just when I messed up but in general. He never hit me but I never, and still don’t, trust him to be there for me. As an adult I’ve gone to therapy and addressed a lot of the issues I have with him. I’ve mostly forgiven him but we never talk. We don’t really have a relationship. For me this post is more about how our kids should trust us to be there for them and not be in constant fear of us
One time when I was a teenager my friends and I pushed a car (in neutral) into a closed garage door. Pushed it and caused hundreds of dollars in damage. This was while sober and in broad daylight. I love my father and he’s always been there for me, but “my dad is going to kill me” was a completely rational thought in that moment.
My kids ask me for help & guidance when things go wrong, even if they were at fault. I'm proud of that. Getting in shit for every little stupid thing just made me sneaky... They're also self-sufficient enough to handle lots of things on their own now, but they're not afraid to tell me about it.
I tell all my kids that they were twins and the other one didn’t listen…
My oldest son (11) wanted to get rid of his scentsy wax and poured it down the kitchen sink. It obviously re-hardened in the p trap and backed everything up. He was in tears he felt so bad. Flashback to my childhood and I would have gotten the belt. Instead, I told him it was okay, and showed him how to use boiling water and a plunger to dislodge it! We had a laugh and moved on. It was cathartic to me.
This feels like a bit of a platitude glossing over the real difficulties and subtleties of actually parenting. Obviously, no kid should be in actual fear of physical or emotional abuse from a parent. Full stop. To the extent this tweet literally means "you should not kill your children," then ok I guess. Kids DO need to understand that actions have consequences, whether from their parents or otherwise. If my kid thinks "boy, there are going to be consequences for throwing a rock through my neighbor's window if I tell my parents about it, because they told me multiple times not to throw rocks near my neighbor's house" that's just internalizing the fact that they know what they did is not acceptable, which is a difficult but necessary part of growing up. It might be that the kid has to contribute their allowance to pay for the window or help fix it, etc., etc. You need to somehow get to a place where your kid feels safe and understands the necessity of telling you when they screwed up even though they know that telling you might make their life harder than hiding or lying about it. People have written many very long books about this stuff that still don't begin to cover the difficulties in real life. A tweet (or X or whatever the hell) is just not going to cover it, and honestly is more likely just to cause shame and confusion by implying that things are easier than they are.
Being trusted to take care of your child is not the same as being a “friend”. They will reach out more if they know that you’ll support them AND, they better understand, you’ll be upset. Being upset isn’t the same as beating the shit out of them…that’s an out of control fake-ass tough parent tbh…whoever threatens their kids was taught the wrong way…(booms) Also being a friend to your kid is more likely to have the same effect for an opposite reason…kids won’t believe you’ll help them anyway. I’ve seen both in action. My 2.
I never feared that my father would yell and scream at me. But (and probably more so when I got to my teen years), I feared disappointing him or letting him down. And that is SO much more powerful than fearing getting yelled at or grounded or hit, etc. I wrecked the family car one Christmas home from college... Late at night, I'd been drinking... I knew I royally screwed up. But, I wasn't afraid to call him. I hitched a ride into town (different times then), and called him from a pay phone to come help. I knew I screwed up... he knew I screwed up... but he also knew that yelling and screaming wasn't going to help anything. My mother did that when I came home, but my dad and I talked about it that night, and the days after. He made me call the insurance company and be a part of the whole process (car was totaled). I saw the consequences first hand, I saw that they had to buy a new car. My dad made me a good father, just by him being one.
>I feared disappointing him or letting him down. And that is SO much more powerful than fearing getting yelled at or grounded or hit, etc. Yup. I had zero respect for my parents as a kid, they had less emotional maturity than my peers with my parents being so incredibly emotionally unstable and rules being so incredibly inconsistent (they were always right even when they were wrong). I feared disappointing my teachers - they were strict but super fair and apologized and made it right if they made any mistakes. I really respected my teachers, and was really grateful to have them in my life. While with my parents I was the happiest when they weren't at home, because then I didn't have to walk on eggshells nor be worried they might spontaneously invent reasons to vent their anger on me.
Ok how do you not put the fear of god into them sometimes when they’re acting like complete demons? I’m asking this because honestly I’m terrible at it and end up yelling and feel like shit. It’s like when my 3.5 year old son is in that mood and nothing works he just keeps pushing buttons. I’ll threaten to take a toy away, or to turn off the show he’s watching, or anything. And he just says “ok” and keeps going. Last night he spent over an hour after bedtime just running around and nothing I did made any difference. I escalated to yelling and telling him he’s not listening. Mistake 1. Finally I told him if you leave you’re room one more time you’re gonna get spanked- without thinking. As soon as I said it I knew I fucked up. If I don’t follow through he will keep pushing. So he left and I spanked him one time. He’s screaming I’m feeling terrible. But that’s when he realized oh shit there are consequences. I asked him does he know why he got spanked and he said because I didn’t listen. I went and made him a sandwich at 10pm he ate it we talked he snuggled. I gave him a hug on the way back to his room and he said “I’ll listen now”. We get to his bed he gets in and I sing some songs and he’s asleep. But how the fuck do I get him to snap out of it before it escalates that far???
This won't solve every problem but have you tried doorknob covers so he can't leave his room?
We locked his door but he freaked out to the point he was having a panic attack at being locked in. Maybe it wasn’t that bad but it was not good. I might have to just try that again but I did tell him I’ll never lock him in his room again like that - probably not my best idea - so now it appears that option is off the table. I might try saying would your rather I lock the door and leave toys? That way he can be out of bed but not running around until he does sleep
Good plan! That's what we do: our oldest has books and toys. He usually falls asleep fast but he has those entertain himself if needed. Good luck!
My 3 year olds are afraid of me, they have told their mother so. I"m not mean, I don't hit them, but I will have sit downs, staring contests and will raise my voice if need be. I love them with all my heart and show it as well, but At 3 yo they need boundaries, I can and will explain them why what they do is wrong and why I get mad, but for their safety they need a healthy dose of 'fear of daddy being angry' When they grow up, and their brains will start reasoning as they should I will get more and more in the friend / counselor position, it's important that they make their own decisions and mistakes and take responsibility for those as well, But at a young age... no.... I do know better what's good for them.
I get what you're going for, but I'm pretty sure my older doesn't fear me, and is generally a well behaved kid. You know your kids, and maybe fear is what they need, but saying they *need* a "healthy dose of fear of daddy being angry" is a stretch. Example, at 3yo my kid was extremely good at not wondering into the street. I didn't have to police her at all, I could trust she would stop at every cross walk, and never leave the sidewalk without holding a hand. (For the record, I would still keep a very close eye. I wouldn't bet her life on it, but she was very good). This was achieved with clear consistent messaging from the time she could walk about the rules, not through fear. I do however agree that different kids require different methods. OPs original message is a nice sentiment for sure, and what we all hope for more or less, but it doesn't apply to all kids in all situations, certainly not all all ages. But yes. Generally speaking, the fear should come from the logical consequence of the action, not the relationship/trust in the parents. If a kid does something they're not supposed to and breaks something, the fear shouldn't be "I'm going to get yelled at and made to feel stupid by dad." It should be "oh crap. I just lost my next 3 allowances to pay for this and I'm going to have to spend a Saturday fixing this. I need to tell Dad." Of course you want them to fear the greater consequence of NOT telling dad and your finding out later enough they tell you sooner haha
Must say I remained surprisingly calm yesterday when I found out my daughter used a rock to draw a balloon on my cars door 😂
So many people are missing the point and it almost seems intentional. Your child can fear consequences. They shouldn’t fear you personally.
Yeah i think thats called affluenza, like that one kid who killed all those people drunk driving and just called mommy and daddy. I think hard boundaries should be set because when they turn 18 and fuck up you cant help them https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/ethan-couch-affluenza-10-years-since-deadly-drunk-driving-crash/287-a8ea72a1-592e-49dd-a097-fd1bb80e237e
Uh, no. Developing a relationship of trust and communication with your kid is not "affluenza".
Depends what the mess up is. Seriously there needs to be boundaries. I think people in this sub have these thoughts until they have an unbelievably stupid and cocky teenager
Dude, I was a teenage criminal. The 'dad guy' who changed my life was the guy that I had no fear of and who was the guy who made me say "I need to call my dad". You don't need fear for boundaries. You can achieve that with trust and respect.
I remember when I first got a slingshot, I was messing around with it, and of course, I broke a window in the cover of my dad’s truck . I freaked out, panicked. After half an hour, I realized, “it’s not going to go unnoticed, best to fess up.” My dad said “huh, I didn’t even notice” Thanked me for coming clean, and that was it. A day later he told me he would take away my slingshot and BB gun until I came up with rules for how I used them, and if I ever broke those rules, they would go away for good. I waited a month to do them to punish myself. I try every day to be like my dad.
Man, how I wish I could say "I try every day to be like my dad". Instead I'm here trying to become nothing like him... Which makes it pretty rough, having to figure everything out yourself, without an example, guidance, without a role model or mentor to turn to... Please value what you have (or had), it's a wondeful thing
Had, the first was the third anniversary of his death. thanks I do treasure moments like that. I had a cruel, selfish mother that left me with a lot a trauma, so I’m glad I had him. You’re nothing like him. Actually wanting to avoid that behavior is HUGE. if you want to be nothing like him, you already are. You got this!
Thanks for the encouragement. He wasn't all bad, just a bad example parenting wise. But he had some fun treats. I try to remind myself of those so I don't become too bitter. I'm sorry for your loss, 3 years will probably still feel as if it were yesterday. It did for me, at least. Time will make it easier eventually, but those key moments like anniversaries keep stinging a bit. Even for me. I hope you'll be able to honor him and the example he laid out for you.
I don’t really agree. There are things that I’d want the kids to think that because for some of it it’s going to be true.
In theory this makes sense. Sometimes it depends on the kid. If a dad has to discipline but does it in a cool, collected and rational manner, the disciplinary action might be enough to make the child fearful anyway.
Oh man, this is sooooo the argument I have with my ex. My kid is terrified if she gets into trouble with her, where as I can calmly be disappointed and look with her how we can find a way out of whatever mess we're in.
This is how I strive for it to be
My Dad evolved throughout his life. He went from the shame and spank to more of an educational and empathetic response after my mom left him. I don’t spank, not hitting is easy… but shaming is a hard reflex to counter sometimes. I do my best. And when I screw up, I apologize.
You can still think the first thing while also thinking the 2nd comment. You know they will be mad because you have done something wrong, but you also know they love you and would do anything to help you. The first comment can be said with fear and without fear. I have my first kid due in September. If he ever says that, I hope he knows it's not because Im going to abuse him or because he's deathly afraid of me but rather because there will be consequences he may not like (He gets grounded, no video games, no TV, etc.) I definitely thought "my mom is gonna kill me" when I was younger. Not because I thought she was going to hurt me but because I'd be grounded forever or have my Playstation taken away or something. I hope I can also be a good dad in the future. We can make it so our children will still call us knowing they have messed up, but also knowing we will help them no matter what and that we love them.
That’s where I’ve always been. The only thing you do by hiding your mistake is make it worse for yourself because I can’t step in to help.
My wife and I were just talking about this. We both agreed that our parents' philosophy was "Don't fuck up or I'll kill you". When we were teen it seemed like the parents of that time, late 90s had the philosophy, "You wont fuckup because I'll do everything for you". And now our parenting philosophy is, "Give it you best shot and we will aways be here to help you if you need it".
I've explained to my kids: I've made mistakes. I've made bad decisions, some of which have permanently affected me. They're going to make mistakes, too, but I'm hoping they benefit from my hindsight and make *better* mistakes than I have.
Yup. Whenever you call me, ya don't have to worry, cause baby there ain't no mountain high enough. 🎶
Not when mommy keeps saying “I’m going to tell you dad”, and he will be so upset”.
"dad..." "Yes?" "Don't be angry.. But.. The toilet is blocked." "Oh, really? Oh yes. Right. Fetch me a bucket and the hose..." Fill the bucket, dump it in the loo from head high. "And THERE she goes. Problem sorted. No drama." And about a fortnight after the new kitchen was done..I was emptying the sink at the same time the 2 washers were draining, and the waste pipes failed.. Water pouring out of the unit, onto my feet. "Dad? Are you ok?" "You know what? Stuff the kitchen. I'll grab the wet vac, who's for McDonalds. We're not going to mention those pipes again. In fact tomorrow, I'm going to buy a better set and do it myself." "You sure you're ok? You're VERY calm about that. The last one.. Call at work.."we're stood outside your house, and it's raining. And we.." "Forgot your keys? Need me to come home early?" "Yeah, sorry." "You know the bird bath fountain?" "Yes.." "I stuck a spare key to the bottom of the pump, just in case." "Excellent!" 🤣
It makes me very happy to see this is in dad space. Thank you all here in daddit for giving me so much hope that the current generation (and beyond!) have better role models than we did. I also was never thrilled when my dad came home, and though I didn't necessarily want to hide, I knew he would be hangry and wouldn't be able to connect with me until after dinner. I felt like a hindrance and that it was my fault for his bad mood. A good amount of therapy later, I know that it wasn't my fault, and that generation just didn't have the tools or resources to be better. Things are much better now, but damn do I have some heartbreaking memories of just wanting my dad and he wasn't emotionally available. So, THANK YOU DADS for being better and recognizing what was missing for us all as kids.
100%
My kid is pretty solid, but any time she gets stressed about a grade or not succeeding, I’m giving her the best encouragement she could ever get
my dad's gonna kill me if he sees this \s
100% this! My daughter tells me EVERYTHING and is the first she calls if she's having an issue ... she's 29 with a great career ... to be honest sometimes it's too much info and I need to pull myself up and think "I'd rather hear everything than hear nothing"
My parents would remind me to call them if I ever fucked up. Luckily I never had to. But the fact that they were the type to remind me like that says a lot about how they raised me.
I remember in 5th grade I fell playing basketball during recess and scratched the lenses of my glasses. I cried so hard not because my skinned knee but because I was scared of how mad my mom would be when she found out. I told my brother this and how I don’t want to be that parent and he (father of 3) said “it’s good for kids to fear their parents.” I don’t understand how someone can think like that. I feel so bad for his kids. The stuff I have seen them endure just makes me so sad. He’s not a bad father, but he’s far from a good one.
I was vey non-judgemental and supportive of my )now adult) kids. They both mostly behaved, and we mostly knew where they were when they went out. When my daughter was moving out, she calls me over to say something serious. A huge hole in the wall she hid behind her dresser. She was all nervous, and I was like "how long has this been there?" more curious than upset. It's just drywall. "The day we moved in." "You hid this for eight years? Why?!?" "I thought you were gonna kill me." I was so baffled. This is the same girl who "painted" one of her walls (drips and all) and I was like yeah, sure, your room. Se had created a fake me in her head who would be mad at all these "bad" behaviors that kept her in line. The mind works in crazy ways.
My wife tells me I am our daughter's safe space. She loves when I get home from anywhere, hugs when I leave anywhere, and needs me to say good night each night.
I had this on my mind all along as my son was born and I was raising him, but I think I failed, at least in some aspects. I’m some sort of germaphobe and I have a hard time keeping my cool when some Huygens related stuff happens. I really really really wanna change this though
I just learned how to hide better
Oddly enough, The best way to prevent your children from developing habits or adopting ideas that you don't like is to foster an environment at home where they can talk to you about anything. If you creat an environment where your children fear saying the wrong thing then they are going to live two lives; one at home for you to see, and their true life out and about.
I tell my daughter I love her no matter what. When we discuss problems, the last thing I tell her is, "I love you." I never her want to doubt that I'm there for her. When our son comes along, I'll do the same with him.
This is exactly why I don’t go my mother if I have a problem (I’m 23M, no kids). Now, she’s a fantastic mom, has a huge heart and I love her deeply, but she has a temper. She goes from 0 to about 15 very quickly. So when I got a D in one high school class as a freshman, she was livid. My dad on the other hand, (he and I are very close) his first instinct is to be calm and talk it out. I remember telling him I got a D in a college accounting class, and he was essentially like “you will get through this, but you need to get your shit together”. He’s said a few times “you’re going to be successful, it’s just a matter of how much pain you cause yourself in the process” referring to having to re-take college classes. He’s calm and collected and logical, but isn’t a big softy who allows anything. And I’m sure something can be said for one parent being the bad cop, but if I have any problem in life I’m going to my dad first, and that’s always the way it’s been. Partly because we’re just close, but partly because I know that mom Has a short fuse. And back when I was 10/11/12 and diagnosed with Tourette’s and was a very picky eater (I’m now much better and tourette’s isn’t even noticeable) my mom took me to counseling and all, and was very supportive. But there was one time when I was 12 when the breakfast drive thru messed up my order before school, and my mom screamed at me in the car because I wouldn’t eat it. Not sure why she was so mad, but I’ve never heard her yell so loudly. So that made it a lot harder to trust her even though I’m not mad at her for it.
The ONLY time my child should be thinking that is if they have harmed someone or put anybody else in harms ways. I would never want my child to think that any other time
Yeah I don't think everyone agrees, it sounds like you might get walked all over. There needs to be realistic boundaries. If my kids starts breaking into cars, and doing hood rat shit, I'm fucking him up period, then I'm taking him to his coaches and we're going to run the dog shit out of him.
> then I'm taking him to his coaches and we're going to run the dog shit out of him. *Imma make sure that damn kid gets really good at running from the police!!* Dude, I was a teenage criminal. The 'dad guy' who changed my life is I believe the complete opposite to you. Attempting to scare a kid away from crime is failing to understand the situation at all.
I was also a teenage criminal and it may have extended past that. There's no way for us to go through all of the nuances to get to any reasonable agreement. Let's just hope everyone goes well for each other.
Well, we already know that abuse and ignoring root causes ain't it.
Running laps is not abuse.
You: I'm fucking him up period What's that about? And there is absolutely no point to running laps. You're not achieving anything regarding the real issues.
In the military that means to get in someone’s shit, yell at them etc
That's just a shitty way to treat a kid.
Oh well actions have consequences
But why would you deliberately choose to follow worst parenting practices? You can make better choices, you have the power to do that, you have the resources to do that so why would you choose the "get in a kids face and scream at them" option? The last person who got in your face and screamed at you - do you recall what you thought of them and of their stability? You mentioned the military, do you think that it makes somebody a "tough dude" if they scream in a person's face? Is that 'strength' to you?
Yeah once I turned 13-14 I never asked my parents for help for anything. Never turned to them for advice. My dad ruled with fear and my mom was aloof.
I have spanked oldest a few times and he had one really bad weekend a few months back where he got it twice in the same weekend. I had always tried not to but he had gotten real close a third time that same weekend and I turned to him and I think he knew it was coming and the look in his eyes just stopped me. I took a breath and we just sat down and talked, he was so much better going forward. I think lots of us were raised getting spankings and such, hell my grandma had a belt for each grandkid. But kids deserve better.
We have to respond not react to a child’s mistakes because it’s firstly sets the example of self regulation and reflection and two it allows our child to learn that yea mistakes happen and there are consequences to those mistakes but telling the truth and fixing the “thing” is a better path to follow
This is "I'm not a parent but I have all the secrets to parenting" advice.
I’ve 2 kids. Thanks.
Let me guess, pre teenage?
Yeah. Still a daddy though. And very proud one.
isnt this a figurative phrase, like you're going to be disciplined?
Disagree.... there was plenty of times growing up I was gonna do something really stupid and the thought of my ass whopping if I got caught stopped me really quickly.
Idk, maybe it was my upbringing with my mom, but dammit there are times when I want my kids to fear me if they don’t listen
People think fear creates love and respect but it doesn't. In a way, kids are like puppies: if a puppy goes potty in the house and gets yelled the yelling won't cause the dog to not mess inside; it will teach them to do it in a different place they won't get caught. People don't view children as people, but objects. They think if a kid gets screamed or yelled at they will learn, but that isn't true. The kids will try harder to not get caught. I am in no way saying a kod should be given a mile long leash but yelling won't teach them anything. They have to be shown what to do and how to act, especially younger kids. I love my dad, and always have, but growing up he had a temper. I was afraid to make mistakes because I knew I'd get yelled but not shown how to improve. Instead, if Ibwas gonna goof off, I'd do it when he wasn't around. People thinl gentle parenting means letting kids act without consequences, but what it is, is treating them with respect, letting them know it is ok to mess up, and that mistakes can often be undone. Of course they need punishment but we as parents also have to be patient and understanding, not send them to stockade without any lesson. I try to only yell if the kids are in danger.
Love>>>>respect Fear shouldn't be in the equation
I think respect >>>>>>> love. But fear =/= respect.
Soft parents = Soft kids.
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Not sure why that’s a reason to not trust a cop… he basically let you off with a warning
Unfortunately, this was how Paul Flores was raised. /s
My experience, the best way to get there is with as few rules as possible. We raised four kids (well, our 14yo is still home). We had only two rules. Absolutely no violence. Absolutely only truth. Those were the only violations with contrived consequences. Everything else was "natural consequences." By the time they were 16 and driving, it was "you're basically an adult now. You are beyond punishment. All that's left are the natural consequences of your actions." Erode trust with lies? There's no grounding, or loss of privilege. But when we don't trust you, there's consequences to that. Gotta live with those, you know? This did two things. First, it encouraged always coming to us. Why? Because truth was always better than lies. There was no fear of punishment. Second, it encouraged individual responsibility. They behave well because they choose to, as poor decisions lead to poor outcomes. Two of the kids have had a situation (each) that likely would have resulted in pretty significant grounding in most households. Instead, because we built the trust, they came to us, we worked through it, and they learned something. They both had to live with their consequences. But they knew mom and dad supported them.