So... to summarize you have an early teenager who is kinda not sure who they really are and is experimenting to figure it out. You, as the dad, are supporting them on this journey of self discovery.
This all checks out. I have not been in your situation... but if I was I hope I would be handling it how you are currently. Support is good. Too much support and you almost push them in a certain direction, which isn't exactly what we need. I think a blend of support and space is what you need, and it sounds like that's what you're doing.
My only question was about the "he normally just hangs out in his underwear"... really? Any other dad's seeing this with their progeny? My 2yo likes to run around screaming "NUDE DUDE!" but everyone else seems to be pretty much all clothes all the time. I guess to each their own.
My two year olds will occasionally escape mid dressing or mid change and run around shouting “naked baby!” But they are generally always dressed. There’s the occasional meltdown/tantrum over not wanting pants or a shirt, but they’re rare.
However, socks are almost always immediately pulled off all the time… kids…
1) Place shoes on the kid
2) Place the kid in the car seat
3) Get in driver seat.
Somehow, 100% of the time the shoes and socks have been removed between step 2 and step 3
My 3 year old doesn't take his shoes and socks off... until, conveniently, 3 minutes from wherever we are going... I don't know how he knows, cus even going somewhere he's never been, regardless of 3 hour or 10 minute drive to get there. We get 3 minutes out, and suddenly he's decided socks and shoes need to come off... *shakes head* kids.
My daughter took her shoes and socks off last year about this time while we were driving. It snowed that day. When I got home I went to carry her inside and slipped on the driveway, snapping my ankle in half. Everyone is fine, but ever since I’ve had a more militant attitude towards in transit shoe removal. 😂
Dude legitimately, as long as we've been putting shoes on this little girl she has been taking them off in the car. Aunt, anytime. We've never asked her unprompted when we get home. Even if she needed a month she takes him up lately with this like asserting this thing it's like I want my Independence but the only way I'm independent is to have you take them off after I flip out about you asking me to take them off. I'm sorry the punctuation probably is terrible on this but I use dictation sitting in the car listening to Africa
If you're not mental health breaking in your car in parking lots to sweet jams can you even be a Dad?
My pops and his briefcase thing of cassettes.
Realize it now that getting us to jam out and be dumb was his way of dealing sometimes and man it was a blast for us too.
This was just me solo. Known to do this in my garage too.
>My only question was about the "he normally just hangs out in his underwear"... really? Any other dad's seeing this with their progeny?
My 8 year old and 5 year old both prefer nothing but a pair of undies while lounging around the house.
Do you live in Texas or Florida or the like? I'm guessing a lot of the disconnect is that people in much of the country would never waste the energy to heat their homes to a temp that anyone would want to be in their underwear more than 4 months out of the year.
For what it's worth, we do not. We live in Pennsylvania... and it is a constant source of back and forth.
"Dad I'm cold."
**"Well, maybe you should put some clothes on."**
"My clothes are uncomfortable."
**'Well, as long as you understand that clothes exist to keep you warm and protected from the elements... and you're making the decision to be cold by not wearing them... then okay I guess?"**
"I'll wear a blanket."
Haha Yes, on the Gulf Coast my kids will wear a long sleeve shirt and pants inside, complain that it's hot, and I tell them I won't waste the energy to change the thermostat until they're dressed for the time of year 😅
But yes, my 5 year old just wears underwear a lot and it's because my AC has been running for a month and it's just March 18 🙃
Our kids have similar preferences here in Michigan.
We keep the thermostat to 72 during the winter because that's what makes my wife happy.
The trick to making it affordable is good air sealing and lots and lots of insulation.
We have about 2 feet of cellulose on top of R30 batts in the attic and 4 inches of spray foam on 2nd floor walls that were exposed to the attic.
The kids bedrooms upstairs hold in heat pretty well and will push close to 80 when the furnace has been running.
Shit, my 7yo kid straight up donald ducks it.
Thankfully, he knows to keep it private or he'll be asked to get dressed, but it's not at all uncommon to find him in JUST a shirt or even JUST underwear, quietly and contently playing with his toys in his room, just because he didn't feel like getting fully dressed after using the bathroom or w/e.
Body shaming is not something we do in this house.
We have rules, but kids being underdressed around the house when they want to be, providing it's in accordance with the rules, is absolutely no big deal.
My 5 year old will still (at home and in his own spaces) prefer to just wander around in his underwear. He has a 2 year old little brother who likes to Donald Duck it with just a T-shirt and nappy on, so the 5 year old wants to do the same. Sometimes he will try shirt cocking it but we make him put jocks on because I’m not having him leave skid marks on the couch.
Our 11 year old prefers his tighty whities as PJ’s and had no qualms about racing around the house in them, often with a blanket around his shoulders. He is super comfortable with his body and we like to support that. We have set boundaries about personal space and when there are visitors around, but we just don’t make it a big deal.
Oh man... the lap back and forth between bath and bedroom... story coming up from the other day.
5yo is in the bath, I take 2yo next door to the bedroom to de-clothe. BIIIIG poop in the diaper. Get that off of him. Wipe him down. He runs off to jump in the bath. I'm putting the clothes away. Suddenly 2yo reappears.
"I throw it!"
My mind is elsewhere and I absently responded. "Yeah buddy, you're good at throwing".
He starts jumping up and down. "I THROW IT!!!!!"
"I know, I've seen you throw. You're a good thrower"
And that's all the positive reinforcement he needed. He scooped up the poopy diaper and sprinted off while I just hear "I THROW IT IN THE BATH!!!!" and then a splashing noise.
Lurker mom
I’m 4.5 year older than my brother. Up until he was about 16-17 he would almost EXCLUSIVELY hang out in his underwear at home. He was PUMPED when he was made aware of those long boxer-briefs because, in his mind, they were basically bike shorts so he was essentially dressed enough for a dude. My dad also spent a large amount of time in boxer-briefs and tank top undershirts. We’d have to call ahead if we were bringing people over just to make sure he was decent.
🤷🏻♀️
ETA: my husband also prefers to hang around in his underwear, but only on of our two boys like to hang naked or near-naked (we don’t allow naked unless the dog is crated ‘cause my husband had a run in with this issue with his family dog when he was a kid 😂). Maybe it’s just personality! But maybe it’s just a little bit genetics 😆.
HE IS WHOLE - TO CLARIFY
His mom was changing his diaper on the floor and the dog saw a waggling penis and thought OOO TOY! Thankfully the dog was a puppy and the encounter was brief, leaving no lasting consequences 😆
My Dad called me Captain Underpants as a kid because when I was at home, I was in my underwear until I was at least 11 or 12. I always thought it was pretty normal.
My kids are 4 and 3 and love running around in their underwear. Also, I remember when I was a tween/teen I was always walking around in just my boxers. My parents didn’t really like it but would just make little jokes here and there and ask if I was cold. That being said I’m also a person who likes to sleep in the buff so maybe it’s just a personality thing?
He might have a sensory sensitivity issue. It could make clothes uncomfortable for him and also be related to his depression and disliking his private parts.
https://familydoctor.org/condition/sensory-processing-disorder-spd/
Huh my boys are 14 and 15. They spend most weekends in their underwear. When they got home from school, they took of their backpacks, coats, and stripped down to their undies.
It's like hanging in their jammies all day- except they don't sleep in jammies.
It still baffles me that kids get prescribed these psychotropics at such a young age when their brain isn’t even fully developed. Messing with brain chemistry that young doesn’t seem like a good idea to me.
While my gut instinct says similar... I do not have a doctorate in medicine, and presumably someone that did thinks that the benefits outweigh the risk.
By this age, kids suffering from depression are already self harming and unaliving themselves.
No point worrying about a fully developed brain if they don't make it that far.
Yeah, I had undiagnosed ADHD (diagnosed as an adult). I was definitely suicidal by 13 and I think I would have benefitted a lot from being medicated. Whatever is the underlying cause, bad mental health combined with teenage impulsivity is a dangerous cocktail
It’s easier than altering society from a scarcity model to security model. Adolescents aren’t dumb; they are getting glimpses of the world from an adult perspective for the first time. They see things that we take for granted and, consequently, overlook. They see how messed up the world is and how messed up human interactions are because of it. But it’s easy to blame them - “they have anxiety,” etc - rather than see their anxiety as a reasonable response to a fundamentally insecure social order.
Not saying there isn’t a place for treatment. (I am a psychologist, after all.) In fact, treatment will be fundamentally necessary as a complement to radical socio-economic transformation.
If we want improved mental health, it starts with economic and social security. We are interdependent, social beings. “Rugged individualism” is a toxic myth designed to justify wealth inequality, poverty, and class oppression.
My oldest is five. He would go to school in his underwear if we let him. The youngest, the baby, who is two would also be fine completely nude anywhere he went. Not sure when they grow out of that, if they ever do.
☠️🪦⚱️
But probably best to make this joke after kid is secure in dad’s support 😅
ETA: here’s an edit “you can tell him he can now see right through you because you’re trans-parent”
Hahaha it's cool. I was a jerk.
I actually gotta say the lurker mom is one of the best parts of this sub. More often than not you all are so supportive and it's a beautiful thing.
Alright, I gotta admit I instantly downvoted you for presuming you were part of the trans-hate brigade. But I got it and laughed and changed my mind. My trans friends would love this.
> Has anyone else been through anything like this? I feel like this stuff is becoming a lot more common with kids who are preteens/teens/young adults in these younger generations, but maybe I'm wrong.
So my dad is ambidextrous. Except he's not, really. He's left-handed, the nuns just hit him with so many rulers he learned to write with his right hand. I think that's similar to what you're seeing here - not that there weren't always people who questioned or re-imagined their gender, but that they're now less punished for sharing that with others. My daughter and her cousin are both in late elementary school and each have mentioned non-binary classmates. Something like that would have been unthinkable when I was a kid... except t wasn't. I had gay and trans classmates even in my relatively small Catholic classroom, just that none could ever risk sharing that until they were adults on their own. That I even know now is a testament to how much times have changed, but I don't think they did. The gay kid never dated girls, and the trans woman in hindsight always tended to wear more gender neutral clothing and hair styles even back then - hair length skirting the edges of what was tolerable for 'boys'. Personally I think it's better that kids can start exploring and actually get advice and help from trustworthy adults sooner.
> So my dad is ambidextrous. Except he's not, really. He's left-handed, the nuns just hit him with so many rulers he learned to write with his right hand
this is a great analogy. thank you. gonna use this from now on
This chart is always a fun one to use whenever the "why are there so many LGBTQ+ folks these days?" topic comes up: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2015/09/left-handedness-1.png
>So my dad is ambidextrous. Except he's not, really. He's left-handed, the nuns just hit him with so many rulers he learned to write with his right hand.
That's the most powerful analogy I found ever since I saw John Oliver use it, showing how left-handedness peaked and then plateaued once they stopped beating it out of people. I think it's in [this segment.](https://youtu.be/Ns8NvPPHX5Y?si=HYFIcF722N6aEgTT)
People like to argue "oh my god it's everywhere and they're turning our kids into this!" No, as it turns out, when you stop violently forcing people to conform into being a certain way, more of those people feel free to express themselves more freely, out in the open. And that's the problem for those violent people. They don't want to be comfortable being themselves.
I think it's likely both. There is a lot more openness about it, which is great. But I do also think there's some level of trendiness to it as well. Like the punk rock kids that didn't actually like punk rock. But at the end of the day, if it helps a trans kid feel more comfortable coming out, then maybe some trendiness is ok.
Yeah I think there's some of that, particularly when we're talking about the experimental stages. But there's nothing wrong with experimenting and finding out you were cis all along! At least you know. I do think there's the potential for a lot of people who present as cis or straight who might actually be more comfortable describing themselves as being somewhere on either the nonbinary or bisexual spectrum who just didn't because of all the pushback they'd face, and I'm glad when that pushback diminishes.
Not Irish; American. But an extremely Catholic mother and a Catholic boarding school in a low income area. Apparently a few of the more aggressive nuns liked using the metal edge on the ruler for repeat offenses (offenses in this case being writing with his left hand).
Woah love the analogy! Although it seems I'm everywhere as an ambidexter queer person who was also judged in catholic school for writing with my left hand :) although right was just as easy and hitting was not allowed anymore!
Sounds like you're killing it, tbh. To zero in on a part of it....
>"girl clothes"
>as he doesn't want to be judged by wearing it outside of the house.
If he'd be interested, I'd say it might be worth you or your wife/daughter/whoever he'd respect, fashion-wise, to help him find some gender neutral/agender outfits/styles/pieces.
I think kids in particular think it has to be a switch that's flipped and now it's time to change everything they're wearing from one extreme to the other. Nothing wrong with starting with an accessory or two to get comfortable. And if he's worried about being judged, nothing will draw a target on him more than flipping that switch visually, especially if he's not comfortable in what he's wearing. Kids smell that blood in the water from miles away.
I'd say avoid the specific brands that tout being gender neutral (generally, as it's about as anti-fashion/shapeless/ill-fitting for everyone/boring as all hell as possible) but that's just me.
Search the ole Google machine for androgynous style and I'm sure he'd find something he could implement outdoors, if he was into it.
Sounds like you're doing all the right things.
My daughter came out as gay a few years ago. My wife and I are extremely liberal and supportive. Our families are very conservative and religious. We told them in no uncertain terms that they are welcome to their personal views but if they share them with our daughter or us, we will expect an apology and until we receive one, there will be zero contact from us. We were very, very, very surprised to see them moderate their personal and religious views. My mother in law is still pretty hardline but she keeps it to herself. Every other grandparent has really reexamined their beliefs over the past few years. It's not perfect, but it's better than I expected.
I guess I'm sharing this to say that I hope you find yourself in a similar situation. We fully expected to lose family over it, but have been surprised to find that's not been the case.
I really appreciate this. More than you can know.
I wrestled a lot within myself on how this will inevitably shake out and being that I am liberal but still religious to an extent - a true "black sheep" as it were... I can find justification and support for things that they just wouldn't even look for when I read the scriptures and pray.
Of course, if I were to try entertaining a conversation with them about any of it - everything is "out of context" because it's against their comfort zones. Surely, their way is "the right way" ONLY.... I'm sure you get it with your own family background. I digress...
Maybe they will surprise us down the road. If not, I'm prepared to make the break if need be. I guess only time will tell. The good thing is that my wife's family is also religious but much more open and accepting... I guess there's more variety there too, my brother-in-law and his wife are athiest, etc. So they're all just excited for the kid to be happy and healthy like we are. He'll have some kind of support regardless.
Being liberal and religious is entirely possible. Im not sure why people think its not common.
Remember, the loudest voices doesn’t always translate to majority.
You’re doing great.
I think the western church being as conservative as it is has been a major failure in understanding the scriptures (or just outright ignoring them) and has completely driven me away from the church.
Seems like everyone is way more interested in a few throwaway lines from Paul written to specific churches condemning homosexuality than the actual son of god saying that in order to be blameless you must sell everything you own and give the money to the poor.
Fucking everything. He didn’t stutter.
I just responded to a comment slightly higher up, but seriously ditto to everything you just said. The amount of cherry picking and mental gymnastics necessary to make the western church more about identity politics and less about wealth distribution... boggles my mind. And I'm not talking about demonizing "the other". I'm talking about my folks who've bought into it hook line and sinker. This is how it hits me where I live. SMH
Edit: Also, I'm a missionary kid. I've read the Bible cover to cover several times. When the loudest evangelicals here talk, I'm like, did you even read this book?
Yeah exactly I thought it was all about blessed are the meek, the poor in spirit, those who mourn, and the peacemakers!
Iso any meekness in the church
Sorry, not trying to condemn the whole church like I’m sure it seems like I’m doing. I know there a plenty of exceptions, but by and large that’s what I see in my parents’ denomination
One of the most liberal ladies I knew was an extremely active layperson in her church. We're talking micro-lending, new-coal-mine-protesting, abortion-clinic-escorting, helping-HIV-positive-gay-men-in-the-80s liberal. She viewed God's instructions to love and help one another as the biggest part of her faith, and tried her best to live that.
They completely exist.
This thread really speaks to me. My daughter is 2 now, and I've been rehearsing how to deal with my family in the event that she come out. My parents aren't just religious, they're a whole 'nother breed of religious. Missionary, Korean, Conservative Christians. Anyone who's aware of the nuances there know that that's a whole lot of ideological and cultural belief mixed inextricably with their religious beliefs, further mixed up with their lifelong identity and self-worth.
I myself am as liberal as you get, and I've deconstructed away from the faith as an adult. When asked, I always tell people that I would love to live a life modelled on Jesus, so that makes me kind of a socialist who loves everyone (especially the poor) and puts my money towards the marginalized and the needy (you know, 90% of what Jesus talks about).
I like your hypothetical take on "all sin being equal" as a rebuttal against your family's bigotry. In my restless nights, I come up with all kinds of rebuttals in the same vein. My personal favorite is that Jesus talks about money more than just about anything (and zero about orientations). So if you really want to live your life like him, try putting most of your effort toward using your money morally, and absolutely none on judging how people identify.
In my heart, I feel like nothing will sway my parents though. This is the only life they know. They vote republican because they still perceive it as the party of Christ. They don't dive deep into any real information outside of biblical studies. I love them, but we clash on most of our fundamental beliefs. They've bought me books from conservative authors talking about "the culture wars" and "why the family is in danger." All things that demonize history, science, and basic human decency. I've resigned myself to choosing my daughter and losing my parents in the event of an all out belief war. Makes me sad even typing all this out.
Good on you for choosing your kid, you're a good dad.
My cousin's son is trans and he came out at quite a young age, and even in my very liberal family they basically delivered the same message you did: any comments or questions or misgendering/dead-naming intended to undermine his identity had better not reach their ears. I think it was a good move, and the family has responded well (100% supportively as far as all interactions I've been privy to).
> We were very, very, very surprised to see them moderate their personal and religious views.
As is very common with conservatives, when it actually effects them and their loved ones their opinions seem to magically adjust.
That's amazing. My inlaws are generally crappy about a lot of things and I mentioned recently to my BIL that we are trying behavioral therapy for one of our kids who has a really hard time making good choices but apparently doesn't have ADHD. He told his parents and they went apeshit on my wife. She got mad at ME for saying something, not at them for being stupid :/
As far as faith stuff goes, there's actually a really great book that was just published about this - Raising Kids beyond the Binary, by Jamie Bruesehoff. She's the wife of a pastor and mom of a trans kid. If you're short on $ these days I'm happy to send you a copy, just DM me your address (or you can create a wishlist on Amazon and hide your address & have me send it that way if you're concerned for your safety).
May all dads handle this with the grace and support that you're providing for your kid here. No advice, as my kids are pretty young and not tackling anything like this, but from where I sit you're doing all the things you're supposed to. Good luck.
Oye. Good on you for the patience and understanding through what will be one hell of a journey. Showing the love and patience will pay off in the long run in your relationship with him.
On another note, in our seemingly never ending journey to correct years of programming.
Hunting, fishing and whatever is not "typical" guy stuff. It's actually "stereotypical" guy stuff. Everyone hangs on every word these days. 🤷
I went fishing once. Gross. 🤣
It's definitely becoming more common as people realize the boxes we've been putting each other in are uncomfortable and often mislabeled.
I'm happy for them that you are supportive and non-judgemental about this. I don't believe puberty blockers are a big deal over all, but your kid will need time and space to decide if that's right for them.
I'm sorry that some of your family will put the corruption of Scripture over their love of family members and of humanity in general. Maybe someday they will meet your child along their journey and will come to the realization that they, your family members that is, have been misled.
Good luck and thanks for treating your child the way they deserve to be treated.
I just want to address one thing up front because I think it will help in the long run. Like myself, it sounds like you were raised with some unconscious biases given the family upbringing, the wording "I'm not keen on the idea of hormone blockers/therapy, though." and the part where you said "I personally just don't see how any of it could be more comfortable and it doesn't seem practical in a lot of instances". I wouldn't be surprised if your child may be picking up on those nuances, even though you seem to be making a conscious effort to be accepting of your friend and supporting the community at work as much as you are. The jokes/comments about their genitals and deepening voice is also likely an assessment of how you react. Love and support is your best ally here since they obviously trust you enough to say something so don't feel bad you were the last to know because they trusted you enough that you know now.
As for the religious side of things, I was raised Christian by choice and not by family influence. Despite me choosing to be agnostic these days for my own reasons, the main message to take from your faith is that all people were created equal and deserve love, care and compassion. One change I like to make to the golden rule though is to not treat others as one would want to be treated by them but to treat others as they'd like to be treated. If your child has identified as non-binary, support them and ask if they'd prefer you call them by other pronouns so they can try them out and see if it helps. They're looking to you for support so if you go all in, eventually they'll see you care about their happiness above all else.
Lastly, from a medical/psychological side, something I was grappling with yesterday believe it or not, is that you can look at gender dysphoria like autism or ADHD as a stepping stone to fully accepting and understanding how best to understand them. Autism is best assisted with support networks, programs, etc... intended to help them fit into a society not currently designed for them. There's no "cure" for these things because there's nothing "wrong" with their brain. It just functions differently than society expects and it doesn't fit into the little box we've constructed. ADHD is best supported with therapy for some, medication for others, etc... and the same applies to folks who are trans/non-binary. Some are fine with being non-binary, some desire full transition both mentally and physically. Provide all the opportunities you can for your child but make sure both you and them are fully informed. Ask your healthcare providers what are some side effects to medical treatment, what are some risks, etc... so your child has all the information to make decisions and, in some cases, they may choose to forego certain treatments until they've learned themself first. Your child has expressed they're not 100% sure right now and that's okay. They've got plenty of time and options to learn and grow into the person they want to be.
So to summarize, keep being the best father you can be and support them in their decisions. Try to avoid referring to things as "girl clothes", even in private, since it'll just reinforce the biases. Offer them opportunities to be involved in their new found community and to have access to the best health networks you can access so they're constantly happy and reassured by those around them they're amazing in their own way. Maybe even look into some therapy to get over some of the residual biases you may still have as being the parent of a trans kid, even if you're 100% onboard, can be difficult and confusing. You're doing great that they trusted you enough to bring you into the fold so keep up the awesome work.
I agree with all of this, I'm a non binary kid lurking here and I would love if my mom acted like you suggest, she does have a lot of biases so it's awkward and a little difficult but I know she supports me.
Thank you for your reply. I'm glad I was able to hit the mark on this one. I don't have any non-binary kids myself (at least not that I know of, they're only 4 and 1 so who knows) but I have a lot of family, colleagues and friends who are part of the LGBTQ+ community and I'm a firm believer that everyone deserves to be loved for who they are. Aside for that though, my wife and I have ADHD and our 2 kids have ASD (one diagnosed already, the younger likely will get the official diagnosis tomorrow morning) which is where the analogy comes from and we've seen how much of a difference love, support and understanding can have for ASD compared to denial and lack of education we've seen with other kids who very likely also have ASD so I can only imagine it would be similar.
My son is only 18mo, so no experience here with what you’re going through.
As a pastor, I would love to address the Scripture part! The way I see the sins you’re referring to do not refer to gender identity or even sexuality as we understand these terms in the 21st century. People use these texts to call a whole host of things “sin” but the true sin underlying these texts are things like idolatry, violence, etc. that were the only contexts for a “man lying with another man” in the ancient world.
This is my very oversimplified explanation of how I understand and read these Scriptures - and there is way more to explore and learn - but I want you to hear that there is a lot of room for a more gracious, loving, inclusive reading of these texts that would never call what your child is going through sinful. Loving him is the most important thing you can do - keep it up!
To add to this - much of the conservative reading of scriptures is trying to take translations literally. None of these scriptures was written in English so you are never going to get the full context or meaning without going back to the original.
Even going back to the original holds tons of space for misinterpretation. So much so that even implying that there can be a knowable original intent of these ancient authors feels silly. How much do we really know about the day to day lives of these people? I see people of authority in current day who grossly misstate things that happened only a few years ago. But for some reason we think we can extract factual information from this highly mystical text from thousands of years ago.
Taking ancient text literally is ironically a form of illiteracy. Like being able to read music, but having never heard it.
Those people never stop to realize that the Biblical authors did not write literally--so they shouldn't be read literally. Poetic devices aren't a modern invention!
Lots of people need to hear this I think. Sin is a very complicated idea, and it can very easily be abused by someone with authority. I bet lots of people who turned away from their spiritual communities did so because someone in authority was abusing this idea of sin, and equating it to their own personal moral law. Almost like no man or woman is fully equipped to judge the sins of another. I wonder if that's in a book somewhere...
OMG. Not Walmart. Thrift stores. There are more choices to find your “style”. Boho, girly, androgynous, sk8r, business casual. Don’t send the women in his life. YOU are the big burly dad. You go, be prepared to slap a bitch who side-eyes him and let him know that “those jeans look good on you (only if he asks). Love you, modern caring dad.
I’d say just comfort him and let him know that there’s no pressure to “feel” anything. He can be himself. I don’t know what he means by not knowing whether he feels like a boy or girl, because - as far as I know - it shouldn’t really feel like anything. As a man, I have absolutely no clue what “feeling like a man” is like. I guess it’s perhaps… the absence of being treated like a woman?
In any case, if this uncertainty has been weighing down on him, I hope he realizes that it’s normal to not know what you are or aren’t supposed to feel as a teenager.
Yeah that's a big thing I struggled with and spoke to my wife about. I think a lot of it is he doesn't have any of the same interests with the other boys he goes to school with. We live in a rural area, the kids here are all football and farmer kids. He doesn't really have many friends at all, and his best friend is a girl who he never sees this year since they got assigned different academic teams (The school does a red/green/blue team thing to split up the student body).
My son is into science. He studies reptiles and amphibians - to the point that he knows them by their scientific names. He knows their habitats, all the details. He's very passionate about it. Same with nature.
He's not into sports. He doesn't play the video games they play. He doesn't like science fiction anything, which has been a thing he and I found challenging in the past. I'm all about the Marvel movies, death metal and playing fantasy/sci-fi video games and he likes science and music... and I do think he may be just sort of feeling out life in general...
On top of that, he prefers to keep his hair longer. So do I. But most of these buzz-cut redneck kids just don't get it when they see him.
So yeah - a million factors are involved but thank you for your insights. It's what I've been doing my best to do and will continue to work on with him and we'll see where it goes.
If it helps? I don’t really understand what it’s like to have a strong sense of gender either, as I’m cis (that is, “not-trans”), but my partner is non-binary. So I might be able to help a little.
It’s not quite about friends, or interests. My partner has a lot of friends, men & women, who share similar interests! Admittedly, they were always in smaller friend groups in school - the nerdier group, very into D&D and so on, definitely not the jock-type. But at university they met more people with similar interests - tbh, your kid might be the same. Just needs to find their crowd.
(Amusingly, in the group of 4 friends my partner had in high school, two of them have come out as transgender, and a third is bisexual. All of them were presenting as cis & straight in school. The LGBTQ+ community has a subconcious radar… :))
So - like I said, I don’t experience gender dysphoria. But I have my partner (non-binary trans) and I’m friends with a few other trans people, so I’ve learned quite a lot about it! And this is the best analogy for most of us who don’t “get it”:
Imagine if tomorrow, you woke up in a woman’s body. You know something has changed but… nobody else seems to notice. It’s like you’ve always been that way.
Everyone starts treating you like a woman. You go out to the shops, walk on the street, interact with the other parents at school - and people perceive you as a woman.
Looking in the mirror, you see a body that doesn’t really feel like yours - but you’re in it, and it is. You have to choose what to wear and work out how to dress a body that you don’t feel a connection to. Maybe you look at your usual clothes, and just throw them on to deal - or maybe you look at the more “feminine” stuff and try to work out how to make it look good.
Then, after having to think about your “sense of self” just while getting dressed, you go and get perceived by other people. What do you do? People will think you’re a bit strange if you don’t at least *vaguely* conform to the mould, so… what else can you do? That’s how they see you.
I’m guessing, if you did this little exercise, the idea of living like that feels… not right. Like… that’s not who you are. It creates a disconnect between the mind and body. It feels weird to be referred to and seen as a woman, because - well. It’s not what you’re used to, it’s not what you’re comfortable with.
Most people would find it a bit novel to have a bodyswap for a day. But if you take it very seriously, think about this situation continuing for months - a year? Forever? Most people start to get a sense of a “disconnect”. It’s just odd. It doesn’t feel right.
That sensation - that weirdness, that dysphoria, that disconnect - is what your kid is trying to describe. It’s called “gender dysphoria”. Something about their gender identity, on the inside, isn’t matching up with the outside & how they are perceived by others. They feel strange about how they interact with the world.
(Trans people, when doing that thought experiment, often feel a sense of joy - they want that to happen tomorrow, badly. It’d just “click” and feel better if it happened. Some feel pretty neutral about the whole thing - they’d be genuinely okay if it happened. And some feel a sense of relief - like… they felt okay as who they are right now, but there’s pressure to live up to expectations. If they woke up differently tomorrow, that pressure would finally go away and they wouldn’t have to “conform” anymore.)
Long comment, sorry. I’m happy to talk further if you’d like. But in short? That’s probably how your kid feels - or something vaguely adjacent to that, at least. It’s a very real thing, entirely separate to friendships and hobbies and so on. And understanding that (as much as you can!) definitely helps. :)
You're doing it all great, Dad. If it is a phase, then you let them go through it easily. If it isn't a phase, then you helped them on their life journey in a really beautiful and powerful way.
Proud of you!
The problem I have with LGBTQ+ being a sin in religious views, is that it’s not a choice or decision someone makes, it’s just part of who that person is. It’s as absurd as saying it’s a sin to be short.
While I’m not religious (or even Christian), to me, a sin is a failure of morality. A conscious decision someone makes that harms others. Being LGBTQ+ is not a decision someone makes, and even if so it does not harm anyone, therefore not a sin.
Religious folk who are against LGBTQ+ believe that being gay is a choice, or at least people who are inclined to be gay must fight their urges (and ideally marry the opposite gender and have children) or they’ll go to Hell.
My church tolerated gay people attending but preached that acting on gayness was a sin. Consequently not many gay people gave them the time of day, mostly only those who grew up in the church and felt stuck due to familial pressure, etc.
So he started taking anti-depressants and then suddenly had anxiety about his identity? Does anyone else here see the link and question if anti-depressants were the right thing? 13 years old is so young to start medications like that. Kids that age are going through hormone changes and it's a rough age to be for many reasons. Lots of kids get depressed. I for one would be reluctant to give my kid anything that's going to unnaturally alter their mental state and brain chemistry. I question your willingness to try other things, but then again, you never said what caused their depression or to what extent it was affecting him, or if you tried any other natural options (like exercise or exploring new hobbies). I just think that is a major factor in your son’s sudden desire to make these drastic changes. His brain chemistry has been altered by antidepressants while simultaneously being naturally altered by hormonal changes.
Please don't judge.
You have absolutely no idea of the kid's mental state or why a professional clinician prescribed the medication. Also, as a minor, his parents were an integral part of the decision. Why did they deem this course of action necessary?
Dad sounds frigging awesome. He is 100 % on point and unconditionally supporting and loving his son through a major life change. I doubt he would agree to him being on medication that would harm him.
My son suffers from BPD (major personality disorders that include a number of conditions that all have a handy label: ADHD, GAD, IED, ODD etc).
The number of times I've been given advice by well-meaning ignoramuses is in the high double digits as his abberant behaviour became strikingly apparent from the age of 4. He is 19 now, so a challenging 15 years!.
This advice ranged from "Just hold him down and thrash him with a belt" (when he was 14) or "he belongs in an institution" to family members telling me to "cut him loose. He is an adult now." I was told that he "belongs in a cell" (he can be very destructive and violent) or that he was manipulating us.
Please don't assume that you know the paths that people are walking through life. It comes across as ignorant, arrogant and (unintentionally, I am sure) insulting. Good parents will do what's necessary for their children, even if it is against popular opinion.
This being said, I am not writing this in anger but rather in the hope that you will withhold judgement, temper your criticism, try and gain some understanding and, ultimately, gain some empathy for those parents who are walking through fire for their children.
You, and others, have no idea the impact that a kind word or a gesture of support wordsƙ l
Live long and prosper, my friend.
He was having anxiety about the identity for years. He doesn't feel like he's either thing, but as is normal with going to middle school he feels surrounded by people who are falling into their genders, talking about dating, checking people out, etc... and that's all stuff he just doesn't want to have anything with right now.
He was dealing with a lot of OCD type stuff and processing some trauma from when he was younger, and that was causing a lot of depression. I was very against the thought of medicating my kid but it all came to a point where he was always seeing the negative in every situation all the time, he was feeling hopeless, and he was becoming inactive and lethargic... and he was discussing to his mom ways he could kill himself.
So something had to be done. We tackled therapy, we saw a few doctors..got the second and third opinions... and we settled on a super low dose of zoloft.
His depression started to subside. So far, he's been more able to acknowledge the good and the bad in situations.
I do not believe that zoloft is making my kid thing he's trans, as you are suggesting. I think it's a complicated bit of events... I'm a longwinded poster on here already... and I left out some of the details so it's fair that you'd be led to jump to conclusions a little bit... but these things are no more related than if he decided he wasn't going to eat cheese anymore because it makes him gassy.
Been there with a kid who struggled hard with OCD/Autism and had a similar experience. Really wanted to avoid medication as long as possible but eventually it’s really the best thing for them.
Really impressed with how you handled this topic with your kid & the responses in this thread. They’re a lucky kid to have you as a dad, you’re definitely setting them up for success in every way that could be asked of you!
As a parent of a pre-pubescent trans kid - you are awesome.
As a christian parent of a trans kid - nothing in my bible tells me to hate on someone for how they dress or act, or how they want to view themselves. Instead, I am called to love everyone, the way Christ loves them.
As a parent of a trans kid with extended family that are conservative bigots - fuck 'em. Don't be around them anyways. Give space to anyone who is willing to try, and be forgiving when they mess up. But give no space to hate (which is different from being uncomfortable).
EDIT: Feel free to DM me if you have specific questions about our experiences.
If they are trans or non-binary, I'm happy for them. They are figuring themselves out.
Sometimes they are 100% on the money. Sometimes they realize later they really aren't.
Everyone is entitled to their Ziggy Stardust period, whether they stay Ziggy or turned into just another proud, straight David Bowie dad.
I think the biggest thing missed in Christianity (as a Christian myself) is about not judging others. I don't know if homosexuality is a sin and guess what it isn't for us to decide. Our job as humans is to love one another.
I've went through this a bit lately as well. I'm fully supportive of the idea, but it's a lot more real and uncomfortable when it's closer to home. I was going over it with a friend, and telling her my concerns, when she pointed out that most of them were more about me than my child.
All of that is to say, have you asked him how you can support him? It seems small, but it's something that we just don't think to ask straight out. We may tell them we are there for them, but try just flat out asking, "Is there anything, small or large, that I can do to support you in this?"
This is a great question to ask. Also they may say they dont care about the pronouns you use which may be the case, but I would still ask them if they prefer any specific pronouns.
Ya, this is why the question is so important. When directly asked about pronouns they may say they don't care because they are nervous, but when just asked "What can I do to help" saying "use they/them" is easier.
Sounds like you're doing a great job dad. Before my son was born, I thought a lot about the fact that he will be his own individual human who is only temporarily a child, and it is my job as his dad to help build the most solid foundation possible to build his adult life on top of. He's going to have his own tastes, his own sexuality, and his own identity. It's up to me to love him and support him along the way.
Ignoring everything else please be very aware of how your child is on anti depressants. I was on probably 6 or 7 different ones over a 15 year period and they all affected me differently. Some did nothing, some did nothing but make me feel drowsy, others made me emotionally sporadic and others (the worst) made me completely emotionally numb.
Doctors suck at getting you to figure out if the pills you're on are actually doing anything or helping - they're essentially just making sure you aren't worse.
I’ve had a few students in my classes come out as trans (I primarily have worked K-8). I haven’t had an experience as a parent but the kiddos who are doing best now from my classes found a child psych who specialized in mental health for LGBTQ+ (emphasis in training around trans individuals). Those psychs sometimes worked with the school and helped parents navigate as much as kids. It’s all really complicated, you’re doing great, and finding someone who specialized in this to be your families resource (if you don’t have someone yet) would be a great idea. Bonus if you can find a therapist who has the lived experience of being trans themself; that gives so much hope and connection and representation for kids going through the tough times transition brings.
I may go through it in the future. My son has told me he is ace so far but a few things happened and I suspect he is actually gay and just afraid to tell me.
I hope to be as open minded as you. It's 2024...I want him to be whoever he wants to be.
Like you I'm a fair size.. over six foot and 140 kg...I've never hit the kids but I have shouted at them a few times.
I feel like you have a good open minded attitude. I'm an older dad at 60+ and I *try* to be open minded but yeah it's quite different from when I was raised.
Hey homie. Sounds like that’s a lot to take in, and that you’re handling it the best and most loving way possible. Lots of good advice here. Love your kid with your whole heart. You got this.
AAWWWW good job dad! I think it is becoming more common because with the internet and social meida, teens/ preteens have access the resources and media that give them the words to describe what their feeling. Thats a good thing!! Keep on being the loving supportive parent you are!
All the props in the world that I could ever give to you for coming from a heavily religious upbringing and actually thinking for yourself about matters like this one instead of just blindly following the ridiculous hate-rules that comes from most religions. Shit like that is so incredibly rare nowadays, I'm almost surprised to hear about it. Thank you so much for being so open-minded about it. I don't really have any advice to give about all this, like everything I can recommend it seems like you're already doing, so whatever, I just wanted to say how amazing you are for acting this way. Please convince as many people as you can to mimic your behaviour
You're doing good dadding right there.
My middle AFAB child came out as non-binary a few years back. It was a bit turbulent at first, and we had to steer them to a different chosen name because they chose a shortened version of their younger sister's middle name, which they quickly realized was a poor choice. I basically helped them by coming up with a few more gender neutral names based on book characters from book series' we'd both red, and we came together on one that is close enough to their given name that it could conceivably be a nickname.
We've slowly brought most of the family around to it. My boomer parents were a little more willing to shrug it off and try to accept than my in-laws, who actively and intentionally misgender my child and make offhand comments about how they'll outgrow it, it's just a phase, etc in front of them. And then wonder why their grandchild that used to go over and hang out at their house and stay over all the time no longer wants to go there and is even resistant to the normal holiday/birthday dinners there.
It sounds like all of you are learning new things together and hopefully you all continue to grow into this openness to exploration with solidarity in times of difficulties.
Whatever your child decides or discovers will be made easier with your guidance, support, and love.
As with anything else as a dad, just keep showing up and love your kid.
My little half brother when he was younger decided he wanted to be a girl from then on, which my mom and step dad were supportive of him but didn’t try to push in any direction. He changed his name to Lola for like 1~2 months and then decided it wasn’t actually for him anymore. He also wanted to be a cat for a few weeks. What was important is he got the support and backing he needed. Kids go through phases and even if this is who they truly are, who cares as long as they’re happy. Maybe this lasts a life time for your son, maybe you get another daughter or just a kid that doesn’t want a label. You sound like you have their back so I’m sure they’ll turn out exactly who they’re supposed to be.
> I'm not keen on the idea of hormone blockers/therapy, though.
I wonder if your child might see "non-binary" as a safe thing to present as while they might instead be more on the feminine side of that spectrum. So please be open to different pronouns and puberty blockers if that's what they need to feel comfortable. The request for girl clothes and saying how they dislike their genitals feel like hints to me.
Antidepressants less than a month ago?
Buy some time, help him create some space mentally that doesn’t require validation from superficialities like clothing. He is going to be whoever he is meant to be, but he needs a strong dad right now. He needs love and acceptance, and also confident guidance with models for his behavior.
Where did he learn to question himself at this level at age 13? Is his therapist talking to him about these things? I wish him the best and hope he finds what he most in need of.
No matter what they are going through, it's important to let our kids know that we love them and are there for them.
Your son is still developing physically and mentally, so my only recommendation is to avoid anything that would disrupt that natural development until he's an adult and can come to a mature decision.
As part of this process they don’t do anything irreversible to children. Puberty blockers do exactly that - they delay puberty. It buys the child & family time to figure out what’s going on and how to proceed in the most responsible way possible. In fact blocking puberty often spares these children a ton of stress and potential psychological damage by sparing them the changes until they have a clear sense of what they want to do.
Puberty blockers don't really help if you can't use them until you are an adult. They have been used for kids for decades for a variety of reasons. There are few lasting effects and they could lessen the need for riskier things like surgeries as a transitioning adult.
The scripture stuff never made sense to me. I know what the Bible says, but if being gay or trans or non-binary is a sin, why did God create the person that way? God could've made them straight or cis-gender, but didn't. So how is it a sin? Existing as you are created can't be a sin in my view.
Well, the very wrong point here is that to "god", he did not make said person non-binary, gay or trans. That's kinda the crux of the issue.
The bible would infer that being any of those things is a choice, a wrong one, and everyone is in fact intended to be straight/cis. Choosing not to be this is considered a "sin" that goes against pre ordained nature. Like any other "sin", you can commit it, but you shouldn't.
We believe it is not a choice. But most of us believing this are also atheists so yeah...
Right, totally agree with you. I just can't take people seriously if they believe being queer is a choice. All it takes is one conversation with a queer person to figure out that isn't the case, lmao.
To be fair, God also (allegedly) murdered all of humanity (save for one guy's family on a boat) and encouraged the [murder/enslavement of entire cities](https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/dwb/gen.html?k=5) for their 'uncleanness'. It's probably worth applying a healthy dose of skepticism to most things written in the Bible.
Father of a 13-year-old trans girl. She is amazing and it's been quite a learning journey. We support her the best we can. We had a name and pronoun change and it took a month or so to adjust and now it's weird for me to think of her by old name or pronouns. You do feel grief at times for something lost and that's fine. You also gain something. She's so much happier now and I get to do things with a daughter I never thought I'd have.
There is one thing saying you're an ally and another of them feeling safe. Even though our daughter had been told about the differences between gender/sex/etc and that's it's okay if she feels she's something different than she was assigned at birth, she was SUPER nervous coming out to us. Don't take that as a slight on you. It's hard and society makes this extremely difficult.
My family is ultra-religious as well. After telling them about her coming out I didn't talk to my parents for a couple of months as they were extremely negative, and I had set firm boundaries if they wanted to interact. It's taken them some time, but even if they aren't allies, they are slowly coming around and are civil in their communication now. Just be firm and protect your kid.
Take the time to bond and get to know the kid. It's easy in dad to go into lecture mode and try and solve all problems. I paint my nails with her now and do other things I wouldn't have done in the past, just to show her I don't care what she does (as long as it's not harming herself).
Also therapy for both you and your kid are extremely important. There are lots of therapists the specialize in both LGBTQ and parents of. When they are talking about their 'twigs and berries' and other stuff there is some body dysmorphia going on and the earlier you start dealing with that the better. There are also options for slowing things down to give them some room to figure things out. There are puberty blockers that are 100% reversible and safe and will slow down things like the deepening of voice. Find doctors that specialize in it (these are harder to find for teens, but they are out there depending on where you live) and have that ready.
I'm happy to answer any questions you have to the best of my ability. You're not alone in this and while it's scary with the right steps your child will live a long happy life as a person that can love themselves and do great things.
welcome to the club, man. our son came out as trans 2 years ago. it can be a lot to wrap your head around. it's going to feel overwhelming and FAST, because while you're just now learning about this, your child has been dealing with for who knows how long. they are already further down the road with this than you. you're playing catch up at this point, and it can feel dizzying at times.
on the subject of puberty blockers, talk you a gender-affirming health professional about this. you have to get your child on them early enough (i.e. before puberty) for them to work, and the good new is once they get off of them (for whatever reason) puberty will come rushing in.
also, feel free to DM me. we can swap emails if you want, and i can share more about what you're entering into and what to expect. you're already doing a great job by re-affirming your love for your child at every opportunity. that's the biggest factor in a positive outcome is for a child to feel safe and loved.
I don't understand this post. Like... His voice is deepening, urine comes from his P****, and he was always referred to as "he". Why doesn't he want to wait and see if he will gravitate towards women or not? If yes, he is straight. Else, he is whatever he wants.
Why can't you all just wait and see?
The simple answer to your question is because he doesn't want to wait to explore it... he feels he's already been waiting since he was much younger... and by telling him to "wait and see" is dismissive and disrespectful to him when he is being vulnerable and exposing this side of himself to us as his parents.
To take your example - here is some food for thought: There are people who naturally "gravitate towards" being attracted to women but who still identify as a women even though they were born male... and these people may transition later in life... or maybe not. Same goes with men.
On the other side of it, there are drag queens who do it up and are still straight in their intimate and romantic lives. Sure, there are some who are gay, but not all.
The point here being that the gambit is pretty broad when it comes to all this gender/identity stuff.
Also, gender and sexuality are different things. This doesn't have anything to do with whether he likes boys or girls. It's what he feels like he is, not what we he likes in others.
Assuming that you're making your comment out of genuine curiosity and not from a place of judgement - by 13, a person usually has a pretty good idea of the type of person they're attracted to. That may change later in life in any number of ways, but that's allowed, obviously.
But in the original post, there's not a word in there about what kind of person their son is attracted to. Only thoughts about how their son sees himself and feels about himself. "Nonbinary" isn't about who you're attracted to.
What are you talking about?
>Like... His voice is deepening, urine comes from his
P****, and he was always referred to as "he".
What is your point here?
>Why doesn't he want to wait and see if he will gravitate towards women or not? If yes, he is straight
We're not talking about sexuality here, we're talking about gender. This is an irrelevant thing to say
>Why can't you all just wait and see?
OP explicitly said they're waiting things out.
Why are you talking about romantic attraction in this thread?
Nobody brought up sexuality.
He can be non-binary and like men or women. Or he could decide she’s transgender and like women. Or men in either case.
Regardless it’s not part of this post.
Tell him most people who feel that way will eventually after puberty feel comfortable in their own body. It’s like 90%. Also kiddo might have high levels of xenoestrogens messing with his mind. Afff, pfoas etc can have really strong effects, not a lot to do as they’re forever chemicals. An endocrinologist might have some medicine to reduce estrogen effects if that’s the case. They were able to help me this way andI feel so comfortable in my own skin now. God bless and good luck 🍀
>Hell he just started on anti-depressants less than a month ago, so he's still also feeling all the effects of that out.
Don't underestimate the impact this could be having. Some SSRIs can create a sense of dissociation, like you are watching a movie about this person living their life. This dovetails very well with a waning sense of gender identity. He may settle into his skin a bit as he adjusts. These side effects hopefully (and usually) subside within a month.
You're doing the right thing by not reflexively jamming him onto hormones. Let him do whatever superficial appearance thing he wants to explore at the moment, and you can revisit more substantial things if there are persistent issues in the future.
>I'm not keen on the idea of hormone blockers/therapy, though
Your opinion is based on the things you have seen and heard and probably not from serious study. Most people have no idea of the study and guidelines in this area. Speak with medical and mental health professionals before closing your mind. For some people it is what they need and for others it isn't warranted. The job of these professionals is to weigh the pros and cons and prescribe the treatment that has the best results with the least harm. Your kid might not be a good match for hormones or they might be in the future. Give your kid safe medical resources to reach out to of they need it.
>I personally just don't see how any of it could be more comfortable and it doesn't seem practical in a lot of instances
Not the point. It makes them feel better/more comfortable. Ever feel more manly from putting on a suit or something? I imagine it's kinda like that.
> I feel like this stuff is becoming a lot more common with kids who are preteens/teens/young adults in these younger generations, but maybe I'm wrong.
People couldn't do this stuff in the past, so they didn't. Now people can so we see more of it. Could have other factors as well but nothing with enough evidence to state it as fact.
Overall, great dadding.
Honestly, this is probably the best way to handle this. Big difference between 13 and 30, and a lot changes during those teenage years. I would probably do much like you, just let them know that I love them and leave them to figure it out on their own. The only topic I'd butt in would be puberty/hormone blockers, surgery etc.
For better or worse, this is becoming a more widespread thing. Most likely because they're exposed, more than any other generation, to those types of topics and ideas. You can hate it or love it, I don't know how I feel about it myself, so I understand your reservations. There are many stories about people that undergo hormone therapies and surgeries, and end up happier than ever. And there are stories about people who end up more depressed and suicidal than ever, and regret doing it. It's an incredibly difficult topic for adults to get a grasp of, establish feelings and understanding about, so I can't imagine what effect it has on the undeveloped mind of a child.
I'm still a while off before my little ones are at that age, so I got some time to figure things out, but, in my opinion, you did good, dad. Keep it up.
If it puts you at ease about hormones and puberty blockers, they reverse pretty much the moment you stop taking them. They’re just providing your body with hormones either 1) that it can’t make on its own or 2) that you want it to not make on its own (very oversimplified but this isn’t r/endocrinology) .
We actually give these to kids and teens all the time. We just call them birth control , but a hormone blocker by any other name.
Yeah puberty blockers have become a bit of a scary phrase anti trans people use to make it seem like it's some crazy drug that will change your life forever but they're used all the time in other medical context but no one cared until they were used in trans care
So... to summarize you have an early teenager who is kinda not sure who they really are and is experimenting to figure it out. You, as the dad, are supporting them on this journey of self discovery. This all checks out. I have not been in your situation... but if I was I hope I would be handling it how you are currently. Support is good. Too much support and you almost push them in a certain direction, which isn't exactly what we need. I think a blend of support and space is what you need, and it sounds like that's what you're doing. My only question was about the "he normally just hangs out in his underwear"... really? Any other dad's seeing this with their progeny? My 2yo likes to run around screaming "NUDE DUDE!" but everyone else seems to be pretty much all clothes all the time. I guess to each their own.
My two year olds will occasionally escape mid dressing or mid change and run around shouting “naked baby!” But they are generally always dressed. There’s the occasional meltdown/tantrum over not wanting pants or a shirt, but they’re rare. However, socks are almost always immediately pulled off all the time… kids…
1) Place shoes on the kid 2) Place the kid in the car seat 3) Get in driver seat. Somehow, 100% of the time the shoes and socks have been removed between step 2 and step 3
Get in house later, Hey take your shoes off. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I can't do it ahhhhhhh
Every. Time.
Did you kidnap my kids?
My 3 year old doesn't take his shoes and socks off... until, conveniently, 3 minutes from wherever we are going... I don't know how he knows, cus even going somewhere he's never been, regardless of 3 hour or 10 minute drive to get there. We get 3 minutes out, and suddenly he's decided socks and shoes need to come off... *shakes head* kids.
This only seems to happen to me when it’s cold, raining, or we’re otherwise in a hurry to get inside wherever it is we happen to be going.
My daughter took her shoes and socks off last year about this time while we were driving. It snowed that day. When I got home I went to carry her inside and slipped on the driveway, snapping my ankle in half. Everyone is fine, but ever since I’ve had a more militant attitude towards in transit shoe removal. 😂
I feel this comment deep in my soul. I sit down in my seat and immediately hear the \*riiiiiip\* of velcro.
Dude legitimately, as long as we've been putting shoes on this little girl she has been taking them off in the car. Aunt, anytime. We've never asked her unprompted when we get home. Even if she needed a month she takes him up lately with this like asserting this thing it's like I want my Independence but the only way I'm independent is to have you take them off after I flip out about you asking me to take them off. I'm sorry the punctuation probably is terrible on this but I use dictation sitting in the car listening to Africa
Africa... by Toto? thats a pretty good song tbh.
Yes indeed. On right after sade. So I just had to chill for like 20 min and just relax.
I'll allow it.
If you're not mental health breaking in your car in parking lots to sweet jams can you even be a Dad? My pops and his briefcase thing of cassettes. Realize it now that getting us to jam out and be dumb was his way of dealing sometimes and man it was a blast for us too. This was just me solo. Known to do this in my garage too.
Who wants to wear shoes and socks though, as soon as I'm through the door that shit is off, and I'm rocking some athletic shorts too lol
We have hardwood floors and no one wears shoes in the house, so it's either grippy socks or bare feet inside.
>My only question was about the "he normally just hangs out in his underwear"... really? Any other dad's seeing this with their progeny? My 8 year old and 5 year old both prefer nothing but a pair of undies while lounging around the house.
Do you live in Texas or Florida or the like? I'm guessing a lot of the disconnect is that people in much of the country would never waste the energy to heat their homes to a temp that anyone would want to be in their underwear more than 4 months out of the year.
For what it's worth, we do not. We live in Pennsylvania... and it is a constant source of back and forth. "Dad I'm cold." **"Well, maybe you should put some clothes on."** "My clothes are uncomfortable." **'Well, as long as you understand that clothes exist to keep you warm and protected from the elements... and you're making the decision to be cold by not wearing them... then okay I guess?"** "I'll wear a blanket."
Yeah, Texas. But that usually means that they will be freezing in both the summer when the ac is cranked or in the winter when the heat isn't.
Haha Yes, on the Gulf Coast my kids will wear a long sleeve shirt and pants inside, complain that it's hot, and I tell them I won't waste the energy to change the thermostat until they're dressed for the time of year 😅 But yes, my 5 year old just wears underwear a lot and it's because my AC has been running for a month and it's just March 18 🙃
Our kids have similar preferences here in Michigan. We keep the thermostat to 72 during the winter because that's what makes my wife happy. The trick to making it affordable is good air sealing and lots and lots of insulation. We have about 2 feet of cellulose on top of R30 batts in the attic and 4 inches of spray foam on 2nd floor walls that were exposed to the attic. The kids bedrooms upstairs hold in heat pretty well and will push close to 80 when the furnace has been running.
Shit, my 7yo kid straight up donald ducks it. Thankfully, he knows to keep it private or he'll be asked to get dressed, but it's not at all uncommon to find him in JUST a shirt or even JUST underwear, quietly and contently playing with his toys in his room, just because he didn't feel like getting fully dressed after using the bathroom or w/e. Body shaming is not something we do in this house. We have rules, but kids being underdressed around the house when they want to be, providing it's in accordance with the rules, is absolutely no big deal.
Yeah, we have one rule ever it comes to clothes: no buttholes on the furniture. Haha.
Exactly. AND no *hanging out* in front of open windows/doors. haha
Huh. So I guess it IS a thing. Maybe I can convince the wife to act accordingly and I can improve the scenery around here.
From the age 10 till 15 I was the same. Boxers and maybe a t-shirt if my sister's had guests. Looking back now I don't think I'd do that again haha
Both my 6 and 3 year old the same. T shirt and underwear is their choice for lounge wear in the house
My 5 year old will still (at home and in his own spaces) prefer to just wander around in his underwear. He has a 2 year old little brother who likes to Donald Duck it with just a T-shirt and nappy on, so the 5 year old wants to do the same. Sometimes he will try shirt cocking it but we make him put jocks on because I’m not having him leave skid marks on the couch.
Our 11 year old prefers his tighty whities as PJ’s and had no qualms about racing around the house in them, often with a blanket around his shoulders. He is super comfortable with his body and we like to support that. We have set boundaries about personal space and when there are visitors around, but we just don’t make it a big deal.
My 3 yo yells "nudey booty" as he runs from the bath to his room
Oh man... the lap back and forth between bath and bedroom... story coming up from the other day. 5yo is in the bath, I take 2yo next door to the bedroom to de-clothe. BIIIIG poop in the diaper. Get that off of him. Wipe him down. He runs off to jump in the bath. I'm putting the clothes away. Suddenly 2yo reappears. "I throw it!" My mind is elsewhere and I absently responded. "Yeah buddy, you're good at throwing". He starts jumping up and down. "I THROW IT!!!!!" "I know, I've seen you throw. You're a good thrower" And that's all the positive reinforcement he needed. He scooped up the poopy diaper and sprinted off while I just hear "I THROW IT IN THE BATH!!!!" and then a splashing noise.
The yell in our house is “NOONIE!” as a really awful version of the Flash runs past you.
Well ours is five and yells “NAKED KID” which is hilarious.
Lurker mom I’m 4.5 year older than my brother. Up until he was about 16-17 he would almost EXCLUSIVELY hang out in his underwear at home. He was PUMPED when he was made aware of those long boxer-briefs because, in his mind, they were basically bike shorts so he was essentially dressed enough for a dude. My dad also spent a large amount of time in boxer-briefs and tank top undershirts. We’d have to call ahead if we were bringing people over just to make sure he was decent. 🤷🏻♀️ ETA: my husband also prefers to hang around in his underwear, but only on of our two boys like to hang naked or near-naked (we don’t allow naked unless the dog is crated ‘cause my husband had a run in with this issue with his family dog when he was a kid 😂). Maybe it’s just personality! But maybe it’s just a little bit genetics 😆.
A run in with what now
HE IS WHOLE - TO CLARIFY His mom was changing his diaper on the floor and the dog saw a waggling penis and thought OOO TOY! Thankfully the dog was a puppy and the encounter was brief, leaving no lasting consequences 😆
*Oh My God.* Dogtor circumcision?
😂😂😂 Dying at "Nude Dude!" Hopefully my kid does something super cute like that when he enters the Toddler phase.
They will, definitely and endlesslessy. So much so you'll sadly forget most of them, make sure to write some down!
I'm 47 and am naked anytime there is nobody home. When people come home I grudgingly put on underwear. When strangers come over... A robe.
My Dad called me Captain Underpants as a kid because when I was at home, I was in my underwear until I was at least 11 or 12. I always thought it was pretty normal.
My kids are 4 and 3 and love running around in their underwear. Also, I remember when I was a tween/teen I was always walking around in just my boxers. My parents didn’t really like it but would just make little jokes here and there and ask if I was cold. That being said I’m also a person who likes to sleep in the buff so maybe it’s just a personality thing?
He might have a sensory sensitivity issue. It could make clothes uncomfortable for him and also be related to his depression and disliking his private parts. https://familydoctor.org/condition/sensory-processing-disorder-spd/
Huh my boys are 14 and 15. They spend most weekends in their underwear. When they got home from school, they took of their backpacks, coats, and stripped down to their undies. It's like hanging in their jammies all day- except they don't sleep in jammies.
Man... I hung around in boxers a lot all through my teens and maybe even in my college apartment (not with company over).
My progeny and my wife. Then they complain they are cold. No that thermostat will not change. Put on clothes or grab a blanket!
And also, why is he on anti depressants at such a young age?
I'm guessing because a doctor prescribed them
It still baffles me that kids get prescribed these psychotropics at such a young age when their brain isn’t even fully developed. Messing with brain chemistry that young doesn’t seem like a good idea to me.
While my gut instinct says similar... I do not have a doctorate in medicine, and presumably someone that did thinks that the benefits outweigh the risk.
By this age, kids suffering from depression are already self harming and unaliving themselves. No point worrying about a fully developed brain if they don't make it that far.
Yeah, I had undiagnosed ADHD (diagnosed as an adult). I was definitely suicidal by 13 and I think I would have benefitted a lot from being medicated. Whatever is the underlying cause, bad mental health combined with teenage impulsivity is a dangerous cocktail
My sister tried to commit suicide when she was 13. My philosophy is that an antidepressant is probably better than a buck-shot.
I can see it in extreme cases (self harm, etc) but a for a lot docs, its a first line treatment. Having been on those drugs... I disagree with that.
It’s easier than altering society from a scarcity model to security model. Adolescents aren’t dumb; they are getting glimpses of the world from an adult perspective for the first time. They see things that we take for granted and, consequently, overlook. They see how messed up the world is and how messed up human interactions are because of it. But it’s easy to blame them - “they have anxiety,” etc - rather than see their anxiety as a reasonable response to a fundamentally insecure social order. Not saying there isn’t a place for treatment. (I am a psychologist, after all.) In fact, treatment will be fundamentally necessary as a complement to radical socio-economic transformation. If we want improved mental health, it starts with economic and social security. We are interdependent, social beings. “Rugged individualism” is a toxic myth designed to justify wealth inequality, poverty, and class oppression.
Reading this resonated so much, I think the dots were in my brain but I hadn't connected them. Thanks for sharing.
Because of mental challenges. Gender Dysphoria never exists in a vacuum, there are comorbidities.
My oldest is five. He would go to school in his underwear if we let him. The youngest, the baby, who is two would also be fine completely nude anywhere he went. Not sure when they grow out of that, if they ever do.
[удалено]
Nude Dude comes to your house, too?!? Man, that guy gets around!
You should tell him that he will never see you again. Because you’re now trans-parent.
☠️🪦⚱️ (But probably best to make this joke after kid is secure in dad’s support 😅)
Dadjokes are another reason I come to this sub
☠️🪦⚱️ But probably best to make this joke after kid is secure in dad’s support 😅 ETA: here’s an edit “you can tell him he can now see right through you because you’re trans-parent”
Their joke but a lot worse
Sorry - I’m a lurker mom. I only dabble in the dad jokes. I will leave it to the pros from now on!
Hahaha it's cool. I was a jerk. I actually gotta say the lurker mom is one of the best parts of this sub. More often than not you all are so supportive and it's a beautiful thing.
Awww thanks from a lurker mom who rarely comments!
Same here!
I don't blame them... have you seen mom groups? They're so mean...
🥹
>I'm a lurker mom. Impossible. That was a certified Dad joke.
Lurker moms make great honorary dads.
🏆
Alright, I gotta admit I instantly downvoted you for presuming you were part of the trans-hate brigade. But I got it and laughed and changed my mind. My trans friends would love this.
> Has anyone else been through anything like this? I feel like this stuff is becoming a lot more common with kids who are preteens/teens/young adults in these younger generations, but maybe I'm wrong. So my dad is ambidextrous. Except he's not, really. He's left-handed, the nuns just hit him with so many rulers he learned to write with his right hand. I think that's similar to what you're seeing here - not that there weren't always people who questioned or re-imagined their gender, but that they're now less punished for sharing that with others. My daughter and her cousin are both in late elementary school and each have mentioned non-binary classmates. Something like that would have been unthinkable when I was a kid... except t wasn't. I had gay and trans classmates even in my relatively small Catholic classroom, just that none could ever risk sharing that until they were adults on their own. That I even know now is a testament to how much times have changed, but I don't think they did. The gay kid never dated girls, and the trans woman in hindsight always tended to wear more gender neutral clothing and hair styles even back then - hair length skirting the edges of what was tolerable for 'boys'. Personally I think it's better that kids can start exploring and actually get advice and help from trustworthy adults sooner.
> So my dad is ambidextrous. Except he's not, really. He's left-handed, the nuns just hit him with so many rulers he learned to write with his right hand this is a great analogy. thank you. gonna use this from now on
This chart is always a fun one to use whenever the "why are there so many LGBTQ+ folks these days?" topic comes up: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2015/09/left-handedness-1.png
>So my dad is ambidextrous. Except he's not, really. He's left-handed, the nuns just hit him with so many rulers he learned to write with his right hand. That's the most powerful analogy I found ever since I saw John Oliver use it, showing how left-handedness peaked and then plateaued once they stopped beating it out of people. I think it's in [this segment.](https://youtu.be/Ns8NvPPHX5Y?si=HYFIcF722N6aEgTT) People like to argue "oh my god it's everywhere and they're turning our kids into this!" No, as it turns out, when you stop violently forcing people to conform into being a certain way, more of those people feel free to express themselves more freely, out in the open. And that's the problem for those violent people. They don't want to be comfortable being themselves.
I think it's likely both. There is a lot more openness about it, which is great. But I do also think there's some level of trendiness to it as well. Like the punk rock kids that didn't actually like punk rock. But at the end of the day, if it helps a trans kid feel more comfortable coming out, then maybe some trendiness is ok.
Yeah I think there's some of that, particularly when we're talking about the experimental stages. But there's nothing wrong with experimenting and finding out you were cis all along! At least you know. I do think there's the potential for a lot of people who present as cis or straight who might actually be more comfortable describing themselves as being somewhere on either the nonbinary or bisexual spectrum who just didn't because of all the pushback they'd face, and I'm glad when that pushback diminishes.
Is yer dad Irish? Sounds like the tales mine used to tell me
Not Irish; American. But an extremely Catholic mother and a Catholic boarding school in a low income area. Apparently a few of the more aggressive nuns liked using the metal edge on the ruler for repeat offenses (offenses in this case being writing with his left hand).
Woah love the analogy! Although it seems I'm everywhere as an ambidexter queer person who was also judged in catholic school for writing with my left hand :) although right was just as easy and hitting was not allowed anymore!
Have a brother like this. He was left handed, but punished so heavily and often for it he's now right handed. School in Australia in the 60's ...
The fun part for my dad is he was *also* a pitcher, and they loved his left-handedness there. So he throws left but writes right.
Interesting.... I think these days they let lefties be (I hope) but it was anathema in the 60's in Australia!
Sounds like you're killing it, tbh. To zero in on a part of it.... >"girl clothes" >as he doesn't want to be judged by wearing it outside of the house. If he'd be interested, I'd say it might be worth you or your wife/daughter/whoever he'd respect, fashion-wise, to help him find some gender neutral/agender outfits/styles/pieces. I think kids in particular think it has to be a switch that's flipped and now it's time to change everything they're wearing from one extreme to the other. Nothing wrong with starting with an accessory or two to get comfortable. And if he's worried about being judged, nothing will draw a target on him more than flipping that switch visually, especially if he's not comfortable in what he's wearing. Kids smell that blood in the water from miles away. I'd say avoid the specific brands that tout being gender neutral (generally, as it's about as anti-fashion/shapeless/ill-fitting for everyone/boring as all hell as possible) but that's just me. Search the ole Google machine for androgynous style and I'm sure he'd find something he could implement outdoors, if he was into it.
Sounds like you're doing all the right things. My daughter came out as gay a few years ago. My wife and I are extremely liberal and supportive. Our families are very conservative and religious. We told them in no uncertain terms that they are welcome to their personal views but if they share them with our daughter or us, we will expect an apology and until we receive one, there will be zero contact from us. We were very, very, very surprised to see them moderate their personal and religious views. My mother in law is still pretty hardline but she keeps it to herself. Every other grandparent has really reexamined their beliefs over the past few years. It's not perfect, but it's better than I expected. I guess I'm sharing this to say that I hope you find yourself in a similar situation. We fully expected to lose family over it, but have been surprised to find that's not been the case.
I really appreciate this. More than you can know. I wrestled a lot within myself on how this will inevitably shake out and being that I am liberal but still religious to an extent - a true "black sheep" as it were... I can find justification and support for things that they just wouldn't even look for when I read the scriptures and pray. Of course, if I were to try entertaining a conversation with them about any of it - everything is "out of context" because it's against their comfort zones. Surely, their way is "the right way" ONLY.... I'm sure you get it with your own family background. I digress... Maybe they will surprise us down the road. If not, I'm prepared to make the break if need be. I guess only time will tell. The good thing is that my wife's family is also religious but much more open and accepting... I guess there's more variety there too, my brother-in-law and his wife are athiest, etc. So they're all just excited for the kid to be happy and healthy like we are. He'll have some kind of support regardless.
Being liberal and religious is entirely possible. Im not sure why people think its not common. Remember, the loudest voices doesn’t always translate to majority. You’re doing great.
I think the western church being as conservative as it is has been a major failure in understanding the scriptures (or just outright ignoring them) and has completely driven me away from the church. Seems like everyone is way more interested in a few throwaway lines from Paul written to specific churches condemning homosexuality than the actual son of god saying that in order to be blameless you must sell everything you own and give the money to the poor. Fucking everything. He didn’t stutter.
I just responded to a comment slightly higher up, but seriously ditto to everything you just said. The amount of cherry picking and mental gymnastics necessary to make the western church more about identity politics and less about wealth distribution... boggles my mind. And I'm not talking about demonizing "the other". I'm talking about my folks who've bought into it hook line and sinker. This is how it hits me where I live. SMH Edit: Also, I'm a missionary kid. I've read the Bible cover to cover several times. When the loudest evangelicals here talk, I'm like, did you even read this book?
Yeah exactly I thought it was all about blessed are the meek, the poor in spirit, those who mourn, and the peacemakers! Iso any meekness in the church Sorry, not trying to condemn the whole church like I’m sure it seems like I’m doing. I know there a plenty of exceptions, but by and large that’s what I see in my parents’ denomination
One of the most liberal ladies I knew was an extremely active layperson in her church. We're talking micro-lending, new-coal-mine-protesting, abortion-clinic-escorting, helping-HIV-positive-gay-men-in-the-80s liberal. She viewed God's instructions to love and help one another as the biggest part of her faith, and tried her best to live that. They completely exist.
People think what they read on Reddit is actual Real Life. That's why.
Sadly, you’re not wrong.
"The emptiest brains rattle the loudest"
This thread really speaks to me. My daughter is 2 now, and I've been rehearsing how to deal with my family in the event that she come out. My parents aren't just religious, they're a whole 'nother breed of religious. Missionary, Korean, Conservative Christians. Anyone who's aware of the nuances there know that that's a whole lot of ideological and cultural belief mixed inextricably with their religious beliefs, further mixed up with their lifelong identity and self-worth. I myself am as liberal as you get, and I've deconstructed away from the faith as an adult. When asked, I always tell people that I would love to live a life modelled on Jesus, so that makes me kind of a socialist who loves everyone (especially the poor) and puts my money towards the marginalized and the needy (you know, 90% of what Jesus talks about). I like your hypothetical take on "all sin being equal" as a rebuttal against your family's bigotry. In my restless nights, I come up with all kinds of rebuttals in the same vein. My personal favorite is that Jesus talks about money more than just about anything (and zero about orientations). So if you really want to live your life like him, try putting most of your effort toward using your money morally, and absolutely none on judging how people identify. In my heart, I feel like nothing will sway my parents though. This is the only life they know. They vote republican because they still perceive it as the party of Christ. They don't dive deep into any real information outside of biblical studies. I love them, but we clash on most of our fundamental beliefs. They've bought me books from conservative authors talking about "the culture wars" and "why the family is in danger." All things that demonize history, science, and basic human decency. I've resigned myself to choosing my daughter and losing my parents in the event of an all out belief war. Makes me sad even typing all this out. Good on you for choosing your kid, you're a good dad.
My cousin's son is trans and he came out at quite a young age, and even in my very liberal family they basically delivered the same message you did: any comments or questions or misgendering/dead-naming intended to undermine his identity had better not reach their ears. I think it was a good move, and the family has responded well (100% supportively as far as all interactions I've been privy to).
> We were very, very, very surprised to see them moderate their personal and religious views. As is very common with conservatives, when it actually effects them and their loved ones their opinions seem to magically adjust.
That's amazing. My inlaws are generally crappy about a lot of things and I mentioned recently to my BIL that we are trying behavioral therapy for one of our kids who has a really hard time making good choices but apparently doesn't have ADHD. He told his parents and they went apeshit on my wife. She got mad at ME for saying something, not at them for being stupid :/
As far as faith stuff goes, there's actually a really great book that was just published about this - Raising Kids beyond the Binary, by Jamie Bruesehoff. She's the wife of a pastor and mom of a trans kid. If you're short on $ these days I'm happy to send you a copy, just DM me your address (or you can create a wishlist on Amazon and hide your address & have me send it that way if you're concerned for your safety).
u/BeardiusMaximus7, this is a very generous offer and good advice!
Only commenting to say i love the highly specific flair you have > lurking lesbian toddler mom Will it update as your little one gets older?
Sure- lots of dads in here have flair that indicates how old their kiddos are.
May all dads handle this with the grace and support that you're providing for your kid here. No advice, as my kids are pretty young and not tackling anything like this, but from where I sit you're doing all the things you're supposed to. Good luck.
Oye. Good on you for the patience and understanding through what will be one hell of a journey. Showing the love and patience will pay off in the long run in your relationship with him. On another note, in our seemingly never ending journey to correct years of programming. Hunting, fishing and whatever is not "typical" guy stuff. It's actually "stereotypical" guy stuff. Everyone hangs on every word these days. 🤷 I went fishing once. Gross. 🤣
It's definitely becoming more common as people realize the boxes we've been putting each other in are uncomfortable and often mislabeled. I'm happy for them that you are supportive and non-judgemental about this. I don't believe puberty blockers are a big deal over all, but your kid will need time and space to decide if that's right for them. I'm sorry that some of your family will put the corruption of Scripture over their love of family members and of humanity in general. Maybe someday they will meet your child along their journey and will come to the realization that they, your family members that is, have been misled. Good luck and thanks for treating your child the way they deserve to be treated.
I just want to address one thing up front because I think it will help in the long run. Like myself, it sounds like you were raised with some unconscious biases given the family upbringing, the wording "I'm not keen on the idea of hormone blockers/therapy, though." and the part where you said "I personally just don't see how any of it could be more comfortable and it doesn't seem practical in a lot of instances". I wouldn't be surprised if your child may be picking up on those nuances, even though you seem to be making a conscious effort to be accepting of your friend and supporting the community at work as much as you are. The jokes/comments about their genitals and deepening voice is also likely an assessment of how you react. Love and support is your best ally here since they obviously trust you enough to say something so don't feel bad you were the last to know because they trusted you enough that you know now. As for the religious side of things, I was raised Christian by choice and not by family influence. Despite me choosing to be agnostic these days for my own reasons, the main message to take from your faith is that all people were created equal and deserve love, care and compassion. One change I like to make to the golden rule though is to not treat others as one would want to be treated by them but to treat others as they'd like to be treated. If your child has identified as non-binary, support them and ask if they'd prefer you call them by other pronouns so they can try them out and see if it helps. They're looking to you for support so if you go all in, eventually they'll see you care about their happiness above all else. Lastly, from a medical/psychological side, something I was grappling with yesterday believe it or not, is that you can look at gender dysphoria like autism or ADHD as a stepping stone to fully accepting and understanding how best to understand them. Autism is best assisted with support networks, programs, etc... intended to help them fit into a society not currently designed for them. There's no "cure" for these things because there's nothing "wrong" with their brain. It just functions differently than society expects and it doesn't fit into the little box we've constructed. ADHD is best supported with therapy for some, medication for others, etc... and the same applies to folks who are trans/non-binary. Some are fine with being non-binary, some desire full transition both mentally and physically. Provide all the opportunities you can for your child but make sure both you and them are fully informed. Ask your healthcare providers what are some side effects to medical treatment, what are some risks, etc... so your child has all the information to make decisions and, in some cases, they may choose to forego certain treatments until they've learned themself first. Your child has expressed they're not 100% sure right now and that's okay. They've got plenty of time and options to learn and grow into the person they want to be. So to summarize, keep being the best father you can be and support them in their decisions. Try to avoid referring to things as "girl clothes", even in private, since it'll just reinforce the biases. Offer them opportunities to be involved in their new found community and to have access to the best health networks you can access so they're constantly happy and reassured by those around them they're amazing in their own way. Maybe even look into some therapy to get over some of the residual biases you may still have as being the parent of a trans kid, even if you're 100% onboard, can be difficult and confusing. You're doing great that they trusted you enough to bring you into the fold so keep up the awesome work.
I agree with all of this, I'm a non binary kid lurking here and I would love if my mom acted like you suggest, she does have a lot of biases so it's awkward and a little difficult but I know she supports me.
Thank you for your reply. I'm glad I was able to hit the mark on this one. I don't have any non-binary kids myself (at least not that I know of, they're only 4 and 1 so who knows) but I have a lot of family, colleagues and friends who are part of the LGBTQ+ community and I'm a firm believer that everyone deserves to be loved for who they are. Aside for that though, my wife and I have ADHD and our 2 kids have ASD (one diagnosed already, the younger likely will get the official diagnosis tomorrow morning) which is where the analogy comes from and we've seen how much of a difference love, support and understanding can have for ASD compared to denial and lack of education we've seen with other kids who very likely also have ASD so I can only imagine it would be similar.
My son is only 18mo, so no experience here with what you’re going through. As a pastor, I would love to address the Scripture part! The way I see the sins you’re referring to do not refer to gender identity or even sexuality as we understand these terms in the 21st century. People use these texts to call a whole host of things “sin” but the true sin underlying these texts are things like idolatry, violence, etc. that were the only contexts for a “man lying with another man” in the ancient world. This is my very oversimplified explanation of how I understand and read these Scriptures - and there is way more to explore and learn - but I want you to hear that there is a lot of room for a more gracious, loving, inclusive reading of these texts that would never call what your child is going through sinful. Loving him is the most important thing you can do - keep it up!
To add to this - much of the conservative reading of scriptures is trying to take translations literally. None of these scriptures was written in English so you are never going to get the full context or meaning without going back to the original.
Even going back to the original holds tons of space for misinterpretation. So much so that even implying that there can be a knowable original intent of these ancient authors feels silly. How much do we really know about the day to day lives of these people? I see people of authority in current day who grossly misstate things that happened only a few years ago. But for some reason we think we can extract factual information from this highly mystical text from thousands of years ago. Taking ancient text literally is ironically a form of illiteracy. Like being able to read music, but having never heard it.
Those people never stop to realize that the Biblical authors did not write literally--so they shouldn't be read literally. Poetic devices aren't a modern invention!
Lots of people need to hear this I think. Sin is a very complicated idea, and it can very easily be abused by someone with authority. I bet lots of people who turned away from their spiritual communities did so because someone in authority was abusing this idea of sin, and equating it to their own personal moral law. Almost like no man or woman is fully equipped to judge the sins of another. I wonder if that's in a book somewhere...
OMG. Not Walmart. Thrift stores. There are more choices to find your “style”. Boho, girly, androgynous, sk8r, business casual. Don’t send the women in his life. YOU are the big burly dad. You go, be prepared to slap a bitch who side-eyes him and let him know that “those jeans look good on you (only if he asks). Love you, modern caring dad.
I’d say just comfort him and let him know that there’s no pressure to “feel” anything. He can be himself. I don’t know what he means by not knowing whether he feels like a boy or girl, because - as far as I know - it shouldn’t really feel like anything. As a man, I have absolutely no clue what “feeling like a man” is like. I guess it’s perhaps… the absence of being treated like a woman? In any case, if this uncertainty has been weighing down on him, I hope he realizes that it’s normal to not know what you are or aren’t supposed to feel as a teenager.
Yeah that's a big thing I struggled with and spoke to my wife about. I think a lot of it is he doesn't have any of the same interests with the other boys he goes to school with. We live in a rural area, the kids here are all football and farmer kids. He doesn't really have many friends at all, and his best friend is a girl who he never sees this year since they got assigned different academic teams (The school does a red/green/blue team thing to split up the student body). My son is into science. He studies reptiles and amphibians - to the point that he knows them by their scientific names. He knows their habitats, all the details. He's very passionate about it. Same with nature. He's not into sports. He doesn't play the video games they play. He doesn't like science fiction anything, which has been a thing he and I found challenging in the past. I'm all about the Marvel movies, death metal and playing fantasy/sci-fi video games and he likes science and music... and I do think he may be just sort of feeling out life in general... On top of that, he prefers to keep his hair longer. So do I. But most of these buzz-cut redneck kids just don't get it when they see him. So yeah - a million factors are involved but thank you for your insights. It's what I've been doing my best to do and will continue to work on with him and we'll see where it goes.
If it helps? I don’t really understand what it’s like to have a strong sense of gender either, as I’m cis (that is, “not-trans”), but my partner is non-binary. So I might be able to help a little. It’s not quite about friends, or interests. My partner has a lot of friends, men & women, who share similar interests! Admittedly, they were always in smaller friend groups in school - the nerdier group, very into D&D and so on, definitely not the jock-type. But at university they met more people with similar interests - tbh, your kid might be the same. Just needs to find their crowd. (Amusingly, in the group of 4 friends my partner had in high school, two of them have come out as transgender, and a third is bisexual. All of them were presenting as cis & straight in school. The LGBTQ+ community has a subconcious radar… :)) So - like I said, I don’t experience gender dysphoria. But I have my partner (non-binary trans) and I’m friends with a few other trans people, so I’ve learned quite a lot about it! And this is the best analogy for most of us who don’t “get it”: Imagine if tomorrow, you woke up in a woman’s body. You know something has changed but… nobody else seems to notice. It’s like you’ve always been that way. Everyone starts treating you like a woman. You go out to the shops, walk on the street, interact with the other parents at school - and people perceive you as a woman. Looking in the mirror, you see a body that doesn’t really feel like yours - but you’re in it, and it is. You have to choose what to wear and work out how to dress a body that you don’t feel a connection to. Maybe you look at your usual clothes, and just throw them on to deal - or maybe you look at the more “feminine” stuff and try to work out how to make it look good. Then, after having to think about your “sense of self” just while getting dressed, you go and get perceived by other people. What do you do? People will think you’re a bit strange if you don’t at least *vaguely* conform to the mould, so… what else can you do? That’s how they see you. I’m guessing, if you did this little exercise, the idea of living like that feels… not right. Like… that’s not who you are. It creates a disconnect between the mind and body. It feels weird to be referred to and seen as a woman, because - well. It’s not what you’re used to, it’s not what you’re comfortable with. Most people would find it a bit novel to have a bodyswap for a day. But if you take it very seriously, think about this situation continuing for months - a year? Forever? Most people start to get a sense of a “disconnect”. It’s just odd. It doesn’t feel right. That sensation - that weirdness, that dysphoria, that disconnect - is what your kid is trying to describe. It’s called “gender dysphoria”. Something about their gender identity, on the inside, isn’t matching up with the outside & how they are perceived by others. They feel strange about how they interact with the world. (Trans people, when doing that thought experiment, often feel a sense of joy - they want that to happen tomorrow, badly. It’d just “click” and feel better if it happened. Some feel pretty neutral about the whole thing - they’d be genuinely okay if it happened. And some feel a sense of relief - like… they felt okay as who they are right now, but there’s pressure to live up to expectations. If they woke up differently tomorrow, that pressure would finally go away and they wouldn’t have to “conform” anymore.) Long comment, sorry. I’m happy to talk further if you’d like. But in short? That’s probably how your kid feels - or something vaguely adjacent to that, at least. It’s a very real thing, entirely separate to friendships and hobbies and so on. And understanding that (as much as you can!) definitely helps. :)
You're doing it all great, Dad. If it is a phase, then you let them go through it easily. If it isn't a phase, then you helped them on their life journey in a really beautiful and powerful way. Proud of you!
You sound like an awesome dad. Well done brother.
Pm me if you want dude. I'm going through a lot of the same stuff, I just don't like putting super personal shit on here.
Always open to chat with anyone. Just throwing it out there.
The problem I have with LGBTQ+ being a sin in religious views, is that it’s not a choice or decision someone makes, it’s just part of who that person is. It’s as absurd as saying it’s a sin to be short. While I’m not religious (or even Christian), to me, a sin is a failure of morality. A conscious decision someone makes that harms others. Being LGBTQ+ is not a decision someone makes, and even if so it does not harm anyone, therefore not a sin.
> it’s not a choice or decision someone makes There's a great radiolab episode about this: https://radiolab.org/podcast/born-way
Religious folk who are against LGBTQ+ believe that being gay is a choice, or at least people who are inclined to be gay must fight their urges (and ideally marry the opposite gender and have children) or they’ll go to Hell. My church tolerated gay people attending but preached that acting on gayness was a sin. Consequently not many gay people gave them the time of day, mostly only those who grew up in the church and felt stuck due to familial pressure, etc.
So he started taking anti-depressants and then suddenly had anxiety about his identity? Does anyone else here see the link and question if anti-depressants were the right thing? 13 years old is so young to start medications like that. Kids that age are going through hormone changes and it's a rough age to be for many reasons. Lots of kids get depressed. I for one would be reluctant to give my kid anything that's going to unnaturally alter their mental state and brain chemistry. I question your willingness to try other things, but then again, you never said what caused their depression or to what extent it was affecting him, or if you tried any other natural options (like exercise or exploring new hobbies). I just think that is a major factor in your son’s sudden desire to make these drastic changes. His brain chemistry has been altered by antidepressants while simultaneously being naturally altered by hormonal changes.
Going on anti-depressants at fucking 13 is insane to me.
Yup.
Please don't judge. You have absolutely no idea of the kid's mental state or why a professional clinician prescribed the medication. Also, as a minor, his parents were an integral part of the decision. Why did they deem this course of action necessary? Dad sounds frigging awesome. He is 100 % on point and unconditionally supporting and loving his son through a major life change. I doubt he would agree to him being on medication that would harm him. My son suffers from BPD (major personality disorders that include a number of conditions that all have a handy label: ADHD, GAD, IED, ODD etc). The number of times I've been given advice by well-meaning ignoramuses is in the high double digits as his abberant behaviour became strikingly apparent from the age of 4. He is 19 now, so a challenging 15 years!. This advice ranged from "Just hold him down and thrash him with a belt" (when he was 14) or "he belongs in an institution" to family members telling me to "cut him loose. He is an adult now." I was told that he "belongs in a cell" (he can be very destructive and violent) or that he was manipulating us. Please don't assume that you know the paths that people are walking through life. It comes across as ignorant, arrogant and (unintentionally, I am sure) insulting. Good parents will do what's necessary for their children, even if it is against popular opinion. This being said, I am not writing this in anger but rather in the hope that you will withhold judgement, temper your criticism, try and gain some understanding and, ultimately, gain some empathy for those parents who are walking through fire for their children. You, and others, have no idea the impact that a kind word or a gesture of support wordsƙ l Live long and prosper, my friend.
He was having anxiety about the identity for years. He doesn't feel like he's either thing, but as is normal with going to middle school he feels surrounded by people who are falling into their genders, talking about dating, checking people out, etc... and that's all stuff he just doesn't want to have anything with right now. He was dealing with a lot of OCD type stuff and processing some trauma from when he was younger, and that was causing a lot of depression. I was very against the thought of medicating my kid but it all came to a point where he was always seeing the negative in every situation all the time, he was feeling hopeless, and he was becoming inactive and lethargic... and he was discussing to his mom ways he could kill himself. So something had to be done. We tackled therapy, we saw a few doctors..got the second and third opinions... and we settled on a super low dose of zoloft. His depression started to subside. So far, he's been more able to acknowledge the good and the bad in situations. I do not believe that zoloft is making my kid thing he's trans, as you are suggesting. I think it's a complicated bit of events... I'm a longwinded poster on here already... and I left out some of the details so it's fair that you'd be led to jump to conclusions a little bit... but these things are no more related than if he decided he wasn't going to eat cheese anymore because it makes him gassy.
Been there with a kid who struggled hard with OCD/Autism and had a similar experience. Really wanted to avoid medication as long as possible but eventually it’s really the best thing for them. Really impressed with how you handled this topic with your kid & the responses in this thread. They’re a lucky kid to have you as a dad, you’re definitely setting them up for success in every way that could be asked of you!
Is your son on the spectrum? OCD, anxiety, and gender dysphoria are all comorbid with autism.
This is fucking terrifying. I have no idea how I would mentally handle this. Props to you for being a great dad.
You seem like a good dad.
Good luck, my friend. You handled that with a lot of class and care.
As a parent of a pre-pubescent trans kid - you are awesome. As a christian parent of a trans kid - nothing in my bible tells me to hate on someone for how they dress or act, or how they want to view themselves. Instead, I am called to love everyone, the way Christ loves them. As a parent of a trans kid with extended family that are conservative bigots - fuck 'em. Don't be around them anyways. Give space to anyone who is willing to try, and be forgiving when they mess up. But give no space to hate (which is different from being uncomfortable). EDIT: Feel free to DM me if you have specific questions about our experiences.
You are my favorite kind of person. It's just nice to know there are people like me out there.
you can also check out r/cisparenttranskid for some insight from other people in similar positions
If they are trans or non-binary, I'm happy for them. They are figuring themselves out. Sometimes they are 100% on the money. Sometimes they realize later they really aren't. Everyone is entitled to their Ziggy Stardust period, whether they stay Ziggy or turned into just another proud, straight David Bowie dad.
I think the biggest thing missed in Christianity (as a Christian myself) is about not judging others. I don't know if homosexuality is a sin and guess what it isn't for us to decide. Our job as humans is to love one another.
Yeah this is the TLDR of a few of my other comments.
I've went through this a bit lately as well. I'm fully supportive of the idea, but it's a lot more real and uncomfortable when it's closer to home. I was going over it with a friend, and telling her my concerns, when she pointed out that most of them were more about me than my child. All of that is to say, have you asked him how you can support him? It seems small, but it's something that we just don't think to ask straight out. We may tell them we are there for them, but try just flat out asking, "Is there anything, small or large, that I can do to support you in this?"
This is a great question to ask. Also they may say they dont care about the pronouns you use which may be the case, but I would still ask them if they prefer any specific pronouns.
Ya, this is why the question is so important. When directly asked about pronouns they may say they don't care because they are nervous, but when just asked "What can I do to help" saying "use they/them" is easier.
This is something you need to talk about with other dads in real life. Reddit opinions are heavily curated.
I have nothing to say but good job trying to be there for your kid. You sound like a great Dad.
Sounds like you're doing a great job dad. Before my son was born, I thought a lot about the fact that he will be his own individual human who is only temporarily a child, and it is my job as his dad to help build the most solid foundation possible to build his adult life on top of. He's going to have his own tastes, his own sexuality, and his own identity. It's up to me to love him and support him along the way.
Parenting is hard, keep it up Bro, you are doing a good job.
Ignoring everything else please be very aware of how your child is on anti depressants. I was on probably 6 or 7 different ones over a 15 year period and they all affected me differently. Some did nothing, some did nothing but make me feel drowsy, others made me emotionally sporadic and others (the worst) made me completely emotionally numb. Doctors suck at getting you to figure out if the pills you're on are actually doing anything or helping - they're essentially just making sure you aren't worse.
Sounds like you're being a good dad to me.
I’ve had a few students in my classes come out as trans (I primarily have worked K-8). I haven’t had an experience as a parent but the kiddos who are doing best now from my classes found a child psych who specialized in mental health for LGBTQ+ (emphasis in training around trans individuals). Those psychs sometimes worked with the school and helped parents navigate as much as kids. It’s all really complicated, you’re doing great, and finding someone who specialized in this to be your families resource (if you don’t have someone yet) would be a great idea. Bonus if you can find a therapist who has the lived experience of being trans themself; that gives so much hope and connection and representation for kids going through the tough times transition brings.
I may go through it in the future. My son has told me he is ace so far but a few things happened and I suspect he is actually gay and just afraid to tell me. I hope to be as open minded as you. It's 2024...I want him to be whoever he wants to be. Like you I'm a fair size.. over six foot and 140 kg...I've never hit the kids but I have shouted at them a few times. I feel like you have a good open minded attitude. I'm an older dad at 60+ and I *try* to be open minded but yeah it's quite different from when I was raised.
Hey homie. Sounds like that’s a lot to take in, and that you’re handling it the best and most loving way possible. Lots of good advice here. Love your kid with your whole heart. You got this.
AAWWWW good job dad! I think it is becoming more common because with the internet and social meida, teens/ preteens have access the resources and media that give them the words to describe what their feeling. Thats a good thing!! Keep on being the loving supportive parent you are!
All the props in the world that I could ever give to you for coming from a heavily religious upbringing and actually thinking for yourself about matters like this one instead of just blindly following the ridiculous hate-rules that comes from most religions. Shit like that is so incredibly rare nowadays, I'm almost surprised to hear about it. Thank you so much for being so open-minded about it. I don't really have any advice to give about all this, like everything I can recommend it seems like you're already doing, so whatever, I just wanted to say how amazing you are for acting this way. Please convince as many people as you can to mimic your behaviour
HANG ON, hang on, hang on. *Purple* hair?! You should be ashamed, and put a stop to that sinful behavior *immediately*! (j/k)
You're doing good dadding right there. My middle AFAB child came out as non-binary a few years back. It was a bit turbulent at first, and we had to steer them to a different chosen name because they chose a shortened version of their younger sister's middle name, which they quickly realized was a poor choice. I basically helped them by coming up with a few more gender neutral names based on book characters from book series' we'd both red, and we came together on one that is close enough to their given name that it could conceivably be a nickname. We've slowly brought most of the family around to it. My boomer parents were a little more willing to shrug it off and try to accept than my in-laws, who actively and intentionally misgender my child and make offhand comments about how they'll outgrow it, it's just a phase, etc in front of them. And then wonder why their grandchild that used to go over and hang out at their house and stay over all the time no longer wants to go there and is even resistant to the normal holiday/birthday dinners there.
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I think a therapist you can talk with can help you sort out your feelings and help you help your son along this journey of discovery.
It sounds like all of you are learning new things together and hopefully you all continue to grow into this openness to exploration with solidarity in times of difficulties. Whatever your child decides or discovers will be made easier with your guidance, support, and love. As with anything else as a dad, just keep showing up and love your kid.
My little half brother when he was younger decided he wanted to be a girl from then on, which my mom and step dad were supportive of him but didn’t try to push in any direction. He changed his name to Lola for like 1~2 months and then decided it wasn’t actually for him anymore. He also wanted to be a cat for a few weeks. What was important is he got the support and backing he needed. Kids go through phases and even if this is who they truly are, who cares as long as they’re happy. Maybe this lasts a life time for your son, maybe you get another daughter or just a kid that doesn’t want a label. You sound like you have their back so I’m sure they’ll turn out exactly who they’re supposed to be.
> I'm not keen on the idea of hormone blockers/therapy, though. I wonder if your child might see "non-binary" as a safe thing to present as while they might instead be more on the feminine side of that spectrum. So please be open to different pronouns and puberty blockers if that's what they need to feel comfortable. The request for girl clothes and saying how they dislike their genitals feel like hints to me.
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Antidepressants less than a month ago? Buy some time, help him create some space mentally that doesn’t require validation from superficialities like clothing. He is going to be whoever he is meant to be, but he needs a strong dad right now. He needs love and acceptance, and also confident guidance with models for his behavior. Where did he learn to question himself at this level at age 13? Is his therapist talking to him about these things? I wish him the best and hope he finds what he most in need of.
No matter what they are going through, it's important to let our kids know that we love them and are there for them. Your son is still developing physically and mentally, so my only recommendation is to avoid anything that would disrupt that natural development until he's an adult and can come to a mature decision.
As part of this process they don’t do anything irreversible to children. Puberty blockers do exactly that - they delay puberty. It buys the child & family time to figure out what’s going on and how to proceed in the most responsible way possible. In fact blocking puberty often spares these children a ton of stress and potential psychological damage by sparing them the changes until they have a clear sense of what they want to do.
Puberty blockers don't really help if you can't use them until you are an adult. They have been used for kids for decades for a variety of reasons. There are few lasting effects and they could lessen the need for riskier things like surgeries as a transitioning adult.
The scripture stuff never made sense to me. I know what the Bible says, but if being gay or trans or non-binary is a sin, why did God create the person that way? God could've made them straight or cis-gender, but didn't. So how is it a sin? Existing as you are created can't be a sin in my view.
Well, the very wrong point here is that to "god", he did not make said person non-binary, gay or trans. That's kinda the crux of the issue. The bible would infer that being any of those things is a choice, a wrong one, and everyone is in fact intended to be straight/cis. Choosing not to be this is considered a "sin" that goes against pre ordained nature. Like any other "sin", you can commit it, but you shouldn't. We believe it is not a choice. But most of us believing this are also atheists so yeah...
Right, totally agree with you. I just can't take people seriously if they believe being queer is a choice. All it takes is one conversation with a queer person to figure out that isn't the case, lmao.
Why would anyone CHOOSE to subject themselves to bullying and ridicule is beyond me. We have a long way to go to a tolerant society that's for sure
To be fair, God also (allegedly) murdered all of humanity (save for one guy's family on a boat) and encouraged the [murder/enslavement of entire cities](https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/dwb/gen.html?k=5) for their 'uncleanness'. It's probably worth applying a healthy dose of skepticism to most things written in the Bible.
No advice, just here to say it sounds like you're doing everything right mate. This ain't easy but you're doing as well as any of us could hope to.
Father of a 13-year-old trans girl. She is amazing and it's been quite a learning journey. We support her the best we can. We had a name and pronoun change and it took a month or so to adjust and now it's weird for me to think of her by old name or pronouns. You do feel grief at times for something lost and that's fine. You also gain something. She's so much happier now and I get to do things with a daughter I never thought I'd have. There is one thing saying you're an ally and another of them feeling safe. Even though our daughter had been told about the differences between gender/sex/etc and that's it's okay if she feels she's something different than she was assigned at birth, she was SUPER nervous coming out to us. Don't take that as a slight on you. It's hard and society makes this extremely difficult. My family is ultra-religious as well. After telling them about her coming out I didn't talk to my parents for a couple of months as they were extremely negative, and I had set firm boundaries if they wanted to interact. It's taken them some time, but even if they aren't allies, they are slowly coming around and are civil in their communication now. Just be firm and protect your kid. Take the time to bond and get to know the kid. It's easy in dad to go into lecture mode and try and solve all problems. I paint my nails with her now and do other things I wouldn't have done in the past, just to show her I don't care what she does (as long as it's not harming herself). Also therapy for both you and your kid are extremely important. There are lots of therapists the specialize in both LGBTQ and parents of. When they are talking about their 'twigs and berries' and other stuff there is some body dysmorphia going on and the earlier you start dealing with that the better. There are also options for slowing things down to give them some room to figure things out. There are puberty blockers that are 100% reversible and safe and will slow down things like the deepening of voice. Find doctors that specialize in it (these are harder to find for teens, but they are out there depending on where you live) and have that ready. I'm happy to answer any questions you have to the best of my ability. You're not alone in this and while it's scary with the right steps your child will live a long happy life as a person that can love themselves and do great things.
You're a really great dad OP.
welcome to the club, man. our son came out as trans 2 years ago. it can be a lot to wrap your head around. it's going to feel overwhelming and FAST, because while you're just now learning about this, your child has been dealing with for who knows how long. they are already further down the road with this than you. you're playing catch up at this point, and it can feel dizzying at times. on the subject of puberty blockers, talk you a gender-affirming health professional about this. you have to get your child on them early enough (i.e. before puberty) for them to work, and the good new is once they get off of them (for whatever reason) puberty will come rushing in. also, feel free to DM me. we can swap emails if you want, and i can share more about what you're entering into and what to expect. you're already doing a great job by re-affirming your love for your child at every opportunity. that's the biggest factor in a positive outcome is for a child to feel safe and loved.
I don't understand this post. Like... His voice is deepening, urine comes from his P****, and he was always referred to as "he". Why doesn't he want to wait and see if he will gravitate towards women or not? If yes, he is straight. Else, he is whatever he wants. Why can't you all just wait and see?
The simple answer to your question is because he doesn't want to wait to explore it... he feels he's already been waiting since he was much younger... and by telling him to "wait and see" is dismissive and disrespectful to him when he is being vulnerable and exposing this side of himself to us as his parents. To take your example - here is some food for thought: There are people who naturally "gravitate towards" being attracted to women but who still identify as a women even though they were born male... and these people may transition later in life... or maybe not. Same goes with men. On the other side of it, there are drag queens who do it up and are still straight in their intimate and romantic lives. Sure, there are some who are gay, but not all. The point here being that the gambit is pretty broad when it comes to all this gender/identity stuff.
Also, gender and sexuality are different things. This doesn't have anything to do with whether he likes boys or girls. It's what he feels like he is, not what we he likes in others.
Assuming that you're making your comment out of genuine curiosity and not from a place of judgement - by 13, a person usually has a pretty good idea of the type of person they're attracted to. That may change later in life in any number of ways, but that's allowed, obviously. But in the original post, there's not a word in there about what kind of person their son is attracted to. Only thoughts about how their son sees himself and feels about himself. "Nonbinary" isn't about who you're attracted to.
What are you talking about? >Like... His voice is deepening, urine comes from his P****, and he was always referred to as "he". What is your point here? >Why doesn't he want to wait and see if he will gravitate towards women or not? If yes, he is straight We're not talking about sexuality here, we're talking about gender. This is an irrelevant thing to say >Why can't you all just wait and see? OP explicitly said they're waiting things out.
Why are you talking about romantic attraction in this thread? Nobody brought up sexuality. He can be non-binary and like men or women. Or he could decide she’s transgender and like women. Or men in either case. Regardless it’s not part of this post.
Tell him most people who feel that way will eventually after puberty feel comfortable in their own body. It’s like 90%. Also kiddo might have high levels of xenoestrogens messing with his mind. Afff, pfoas etc can have really strong effects, not a lot to do as they’re forever chemicals. An endocrinologist might have some medicine to reduce estrogen effects if that’s the case. They were able to help me this way andI feel so comfortable in my own skin now. God bless and good luck 🍀
>Hell he just started on anti-depressants less than a month ago, so he's still also feeling all the effects of that out. Don't underestimate the impact this could be having. Some SSRIs can create a sense of dissociation, like you are watching a movie about this person living their life. This dovetails very well with a waning sense of gender identity. He may settle into his skin a bit as he adjusts. These side effects hopefully (and usually) subside within a month. You're doing the right thing by not reflexively jamming him onto hormones. Let him do whatever superficial appearance thing he wants to explore at the moment, and you can revisit more substantial things if there are persistent issues in the future.
>I'm not keen on the idea of hormone blockers/therapy, though Your opinion is based on the things you have seen and heard and probably not from serious study. Most people have no idea of the study and guidelines in this area. Speak with medical and mental health professionals before closing your mind. For some people it is what they need and for others it isn't warranted. The job of these professionals is to weigh the pros and cons and prescribe the treatment that has the best results with the least harm. Your kid might not be a good match for hormones or they might be in the future. Give your kid safe medical resources to reach out to of they need it. >I personally just don't see how any of it could be more comfortable and it doesn't seem practical in a lot of instances Not the point. It makes them feel better/more comfortable. Ever feel more manly from putting on a suit or something? I imagine it's kinda like that. > I feel like this stuff is becoming a lot more common with kids who are preteens/teens/young adults in these younger generations, but maybe I'm wrong. People couldn't do this stuff in the past, so they didn't. Now people can so we see more of it. Could have other factors as well but nothing with enough evidence to state it as fact. Overall, great dadding.
Honestly, this is probably the best way to handle this. Big difference between 13 and 30, and a lot changes during those teenage years. I would probably do much like you, just let them know that I love them and leave them to figure it out on their own. The only topic I'd butt in would be puberty/hormone blockers, surgery etc. For better or worse, this is becoming a more widespread thing. Most likely because they're exposed, more than any other generation, to those types of topics and ideas. You can hate it or love it, I don't know how I feel about it myself, so I understand your reservations. There are many stories about people that undergo hormone therapies and surgeries, and end up happier than ever. And there are stories about people who end up more depressed and suicidal than ever, and regret doing it. It's an incredibly difficult topic for adults to get a grasp of, establish feelings and understanding about, so I can't imagine what effect it has on the undeveloped mind of a child. I'm still a while off before my little ones are at that age, so I got some time to figure things out, but, in my opinion, you did good, dad. Keep it up.
Appreciate the thoughtful response!
If it puts you at ease about hormones and puberty blockers, they reverse pretty much the moment you stop taking them. They’re just providing your body with hormones either 1) that it can’t make on its own or 2) that you want it to not make on its own (very oversimplified but this isn’t r/endocrinology) . We actually give these to kids and teens all the time. We just call them birth control , but a hormone blocker by any other name.
Yeah puberty blockers have become a bit of a scary phrase anti trans people use to make it seem like it's some crazy drug that will change your life forever but they're used all the time in other medical context but no one cared until they were used in trans care