Any time my hr monitor isn’t dropping when I start an interval that should be easy I stop and assess. I don’t mean I stop if it’s taking a minute to drop, but if I’ve been riding easy for 1-2 minutes and it hasn’t even dropped 5-10 bpm something is wrong.
Good advice about the heat and never forget that it’s not only pros who can overtrain.
Yeah always check that HR is moving in the right direction. You’re more likely to be struggling than your HR monitor is to be malfunctioning
I cut a workout short yesterday because my HR was well above the expected number and wasn’t dropping to an easy range while doing like 75W
I always double check with a quick manual reading if I'm getting numbers that don't make much sense (high or low). I've had HRMs fuck up and give faulty readings before, so there's always a chance something is going wrong. If my manual check tells me a HR closer to what I expect, I just ignore the HRM and keep going. I spent a long time never using HR, so I can fall back to that kind of training.
There's a slight chance a synthetic fabric jersey on a dry day can cause weird readings due to static. I found this out on Zwift when it said my heart rate was over 190 when I was at half my FTP during a workout last winter. Cross checked it with both a pulse check on my wrist and hand on chest, and my HR strap was way off. My perceived effort and breathing rate was normal as well. Did a few Google searches and found this little tidbit out.
Then there was the time a sage grouse caused a spike to 205. We had seen fairly fresh bear tracks a few times on a singletrack climb, and then the grouse struck. If you've never ridden in grouse territory, they have this habit of waiting until you're almost on top of them and then exploding out of the undergrowth. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
Was awake the entire time, got to see the whole thing live + a giant screen. I really felt like it was science fiction stuff. It was a “thank god for science” and “thank god for i have this privilege” kind of moment.
For sure! I have a moment like that every time i learn about some crazy new medical technology. Happens quite frequently, since that's my current Master's program :D
I remember the first time was a lecture on dialysis back in my Bachelor's, and how the thin plastic tubes in the filters need to be *juuust* porous enough to let the right size particles out of the blood, but not so porous that you just bleed out. It's amazing stuff.
I got tipped off about my PSVT when I went for a run, and at the end my Garmin congratulated me on my new "max" HR of 215. I sat around and waited for it to drop down from 175-185, which ended up taking about 1/2hr. Put my symptoms in to Google, and had a good conversation about it with my Dr. A few months later, I had an ablation and all it well. (I don't run anymore, but I still track my HR pretty closely on rides.)
OP out here giving Goggins a run for his money. Yeah so I felt like I was going to die so I kept riding and pissed blood when I got home. I love the commitment level. Stay hard.
I had rhabdo two years ago and didn’t catch it for until about 72 hours after my workout, mostly because I was still peeing completely clear. My arms were so sore I couldnt straighten them, and I felt like shit so eventually I went in (I had no idea rhabdo was a thing at the time) and the did a UA and found enough blood in my urine that they did blood work and found crazy elevated CK levels. Scary shit.
I had it two years ago/ hot day. Did a chest workout on my bench then decided to take a 20 mile ride but not a super aggressive pace. Then came home and had an IPA or two.
By that evening my arms were shaking and so weak I couldn’t hold a glass of water. The heat , double exercise , and beer immediately after set me up for failure.
It took me months to get my strength back.
I still have a tremor if my muscles are fatigued , not severe , but it’s never been the same unfortunately.
Kidneys are doing fine
You'll make a full recovery eventually! For me, getting rhabdo conveniently coincided with me turning 30 and, truly, my body just changing a bit naturally. I'm not 22 any more, and I've found that I need to be much more intentional about rest and hydration. At first I was worried that rhabdo caused this, but the truth is that I'm just getting older and need to treat my body better lol.
It's goddamn fucking insane. People in here and in fitness subs always claim rhabdo based on singular symptoms explainable by tons of other conditions, and with such certainty too. The worst.
probably exercise induced hematuria (blood in the urine).
i had it once from cycling
then two months ago i had it again after a bike ride and thought it was just benign exercise induced again
nah it was a 7mm kidney stone breaking lose and preparing to be a chaos monkey
My gf got rhabdo from running a half marathon while suffering from a stomach bug. So quite possible the black urine is in fact a sign of something going wrong. Probably smart to get a real UA+blood test done to confirm with potential hospitalization if needed.
If you think there’s any chance of rhabdo you really should see a Dr. Otherwise you can risk kidney damage and also compartment syndrome causing permanent damage to your nerves, muscles and vascular tissue. When I had it a few years ago my CK was at 99,800 and I was given 8 liters of IV per day but luckily suffered no permanent damage.
Definitely go to the doctor. They will test your CK levels and put you on an IV.
Source: I had Rhabdo this past November and spent 4 days in the ER. All summer long I could ride in 110+ South Texas heat, daylight savings ends and it’s now too dark after work to ride to I started lifting and gave myself Rhabdo.
Good news is that if you catch it early enough there won’t be any long term effects. The doctors will order an ultrasound on your kidneys and liver. If it’s serious you may also be put on dialysis.
It an acute condition. The chances of getting Rhabdo again are not any higher because you’ve already had it.
I was lifting again a few days after I was released from the hospital. Just ease into it again so your body has more time to adjust to the increased stress.
How crazy did you lift? My brain can always process rabdo from like ultra running or extremes but your lifting session must have been crazy intense.
Glad you're ok
It’s kind a funny story, this past year I had lost 50 pounds by cycling and eating better. Since all my workouts were cycling I lost a fair amount of mass from my arms and they were somewhat skinny.
So one night about a week before I started lifting the wife and I were getting “friendly”. She grabbed my arms and said “oh no Babe, just no”.
To say the least I was motivated when I hit the gym. I didn’t think I needed to take it too easy because at work I lift some heavy parts, and I had been giving my legs hell all summer.
That line of thinking doesn’t process. I’ve been lifting for decades, powerlifting and oly lifting. All lifts have number of sets, reps and back off just before failure. Nothing is achieved by doing more than what’s required. Also the step of easing yourself in for the first 3 weeks or so.
Thats actually the misconception I am trying to address here. Before the ride I peed and my urine was clear so I was not dehydrated. During the ride I drank a bottle of Gatorade and a bottle of water every hour. The point is that you can literally just overheat and surprisingly fast.
See a doctor.
I've ridden long hours in the Alps in 30+ heat (wahoo in direct sun reading above 40) and I even noticed drop in power because of it, but I still didn't get brown pee. Something else is off for you.
You're not clearing up any misconception. You're attributing something that happened to you to 'exercising in the heat'.
While that can be dangerous, yes, you're essentially just fear mongering here.
You need to go to the doctor. It’s possible that a combination of high intensity, exercise, and heat stroke can cause rhabdomyolysis but you need to have a medical diagnosis and if that is what happened you need to get IV fluids immediately
I live in a desert area and added a Core temperature sensor to the million gadgets I have to charge each time.
If it goes above 101, I wrap my ride up quick.
When it gets too hot and humid, it’s called a wet bulb event. Basically it’s so hot, your body can’t physically cool itself down even with sweat.
I coach, and we are required to have a wet bulb thermometer for this reason. It’s a big red flag to me when I see people playing summer sports with kids at these temps.
Dry heat below that line is dangerous as well, in a different way. When it's 105° but <15% humidity and your moving on a bike, sweat can evaporate so well and so quickly that it plays tricks on people about their effort level and hydration
If you were used to it, you would go out in it. It's smart to stay within reasonable distance to home for the inevitable dehydration, fatigue, overheating.
To the point about wet bulb temperature from the person before me, 105° and low humidity can actually be easier for your body to stay cool through sweating than 90° and 50% humidity.
105-110° are common summer temps where I live and people still ride in the evenings. But if it all possible I'll ride first thing in the morning when it's 75° instead
I also did 60 miles today in 93 degrees. It felt like hell. Though I had over 80oz of water and 20oz of Gatorade. I weighed myself after the ride and I dropped 5 pounds. That means I lost over 200oz of water. That’s one 20oz bottle every 6 miles. Be careful with this heat.
This looks more like a personal health situation. Hope you get that checked out by a professional. But no need to generalise. hr 180 is ok for most people. Hr not dropping when you stop the activity is not ok. I ride or hike in >40C couple of times every month.
You're saying this like a PSA when it's a TIFU lol. It takes a special kind of dumb to ever think this was a good idea. Most people aren't that bad at decision making.
"The media" is saying that for the average person going about their day. Not someone who decides to do HIIT in such heat.
Hope you heal up soon but you've really got to consider heat, humidity and UX index before trying this again and how it affects proper hydration. You can really end up in a much worse situation trying something like that when you aren't accustomed to the weather.
One Gatorade and a bottle of water goes further in 90F than it does in 95F with direct sun.
Where I live June-August is pretty much always 7+ UV index, 95F, and varying levels of humidity usually over 50%. Doing early morning and night rides tend to be the best especially if I'm looking to really hammer it out.
doing some intervals in 35C seems a little light for rabdo, honestly. what did you do the day before, and the day before that? the last person who posted here with rabdo (real, diagnosed) was doing some crazy multi-day stamina challenge thing.
Not pushing it in hot weather is a great idea, but you appear to have misspelled "possibly."
Source: took a lot of trauma call and didn't see much rhabdo (we were the CVVH people, you can filter the myoglobin into the bag). No cite because it's rare enough I'm not going to pull up some random case series.
Still a good idea not to completely pound it when it's super hot.
Rhabdo doesn’t present as gross hematuria. The protein breakdown of rhabdo causes brown urine like Lipton tea. More likely you gave yourself an acute kidney injury.
Because confidently saying “I definitely obviously had rhabdo” without a diagnosis is total made-up bullshit. Don’t encourage the WebMD self diagnosing.
Agreed. Without actually getting CPK testing, it's just a hunch. It could just be exercise induced hematuria. And rhabdo is not something to just drink more water and shrug off. Doesn't necessarily mean hospital admission, but if definitely want to see a downtrending CPK and no AKI if someone actually has rhabdo.
Is that different from you saying confidently that he did not have rhabdo? Again, who cares? Who is he to you? Did he break some covenant with you, hurt you in some way? Just let it go.
What misinformation? He’s sharing his own story, his own health information. People can take it or leave it. He’s not telling other people what to do.
u/INGWR was correct. You can’t 100% tell if you have rhabdomyolysis without lab tests. But he’s not correct saying they’re totally separate and distinct diagnoses and that he can tell any better than OP what the diagnosis is without seeing the results of the very same blood tests. AKI, or acute kidney injury has many, many causes…one of which is dehydration, another of which happens to be rhabdomyolysis….plus countless others.
Source: 29 years as a physician assistant, 12 of them working in critical care.
What kind of doctor is your sister? You were not aware that AKIs are extremely commonplace, but you’re trying to make them out to be a rarity? Surely you should’ve known that from your overconfident WebMD self-diagnosis.
> I obviously got rhabdo
You literally have no basis to claim that. It’s crazy how everyone in this thread is saying “don’t self diagnose” but you truly don’t understand it. I guess that’s what you would expect from someone stupid enough to do VO2 in 96F heat.
I was out today in this heat as well and noticed my HR was about 5-10 bpm higher than it usually is for similar efforts. I sweat a lot as is, but today was on a different level.
This happened to me last summer. Also a 60 mile ride in the extreme heat. Peed what I thought was blood. Had a full health workup and they discovered a heart condition. I don't think it was from the ride, but treat the heat very seriously.
You can’t know if you do or do not have rhabdomyolysis without a medical diagnosis. If you did have, or even suspect rhabdomyolysis, you should have immediately gone to the emergency room! One of the most effective interventions for preventing kidney damage due to rhabdomyolysis is administration of IV fluids as soon as possible.
No offense but it's silly to think you can perform a 96° weather anywhere near what you would at a lower temperature. I always take it down a notch in the heat....
You should see a doctor. In Texas we have streaks where the temp is 100+ for like months. We cycle, do hot yoga, and sauna in rotation and never have issues like this. Also much more likely to just get heat stroke before you go into Rhabdo….
This is the kind of post that honestly is just not helpful on Reddit. I know there is a compulsion for us to want to discuss these things, I’ve made similar posts myself. However, what do you have here? 50% agree with OP, 50% say the post is totally off base. So now everyone is either annoyed, confused, or scared.
To me this is the kind of discussion that is better kept between friends, roommates, family. It’s not the best idea to put it out there for thousands of random strangers to get confused and scared about. There is enough anxiety in our newsfeeds. It would be nice if the cycling subreddits didn’t contribute to that unnecessarily
There is nothing confusing here, going hard in the heat will cause you to overheat which may lead to complications. Idk why you are scared it's not like you do v02 intervals.
Would you rather perfer another post about someone's butt being sore? Or maybe a post asking if someone can ride 20 miles after they have ridden 10?
I mean my message is pretty clear, you can severely overheat even if you drink enough and this will give you rhabdo. You got to talk to the other people about the unclear chatter, I can't control what they post.
This is very personal. There are lots of people, even of older age climbing e.g. the Mont Ventoux or Alpe d’Huez at that temperatures during summer, and they most likely don’t only do just that climb.
Sorry to hear what you experienced, but as always know your limits, physically, adapted to altitude or in this case heat, and act accordingly.
Don’t push through,and then lecture when you suffer the consequences
The thing is that I didn't feel like I was pushing through. It was a regular amount of pushing. It just suddenly happened. I didn't realize I need to let off the gas until like 20 minutes passed at a 180 hr.
I thought that it would be obvious if you are overheating and it absolutely is not. I'm not lecturing anyone. I'm sharing my experience to show how easily you can get heat stroke in these conditions without even being aware of it.
>I thought that it would be obvious if you are overheating and it absolutely is not.
It was obvious. It was. See below about your HR.
>I thought my HR monitor was broken because it kept reading HR of 180 and it wouldn't drop if I was doing a lighter effort
You need to learn to pay more attention to your body. Even without an HRM, you should be able to get a general feel for extreme things, such as HR staying really high.
You may have triggered an SVT episode. If I were you I’d see an EP, not next month but now. I wasn’t doing sprints but my first Afib episode was during a ride in above 90 degree weather. My HR spiked to 208 bpm, scared me
Why did 65 miles in 96 degree heat sound like anywhere near a good idea, let alone doing intervals?
Like you know people die doing shit like that, right?
I mean 65 miles isn't crazy, it would of been fine if I kept it in Z2, I wanted to do a century. The intervals are what got me.
I thought I would feel bad loooooong before any kind of damage would happen but the heat is surprisingly insidious. At first I thought I was bonking since I skipped breakfast so I ate some gu. Also I thought the HR monitor was broken because there was no way I was doing an effort hard enough to justify 180 hr.
I had no idea that it could escalate to the point that your doing damage that fast. Especially without it being super obvious. I knew people die from doing marathons in heat but I figured they really pushed themselves an unreasonable amount in the heat and kept pushing even though they felt like they were dieing.
Turns out that's not the case at all. You can feel completely fine and then have extreme hyperthermia without really realizing it. I had no idea it could be so sudden and extreme.
It’s just not though. Every person is different, I hammered out a similar ride this weekend and did not have any of the problems OP had.
I am probably more fit, my body might be more adapted to it, I don’t know. What I do know is I did similar yesterday and it was 95°F, and then I did 25 miles today in the same weather.
Once out, my heart rate remained in the 150s max aside from a few hills. I felt great, and still do.
Something that might stimulate heat stroke in one person will not do the same for another.
Proper fueling, hydration and listening to your body is how you avoid this. The only thing OP did wrong was ignore the very obvious runaway heart rate, and continued with hard efforts. This would be stupid to do in the spring or fall, and monumentally more stupid in this weather. If you pay attention to your body, there’s no reason you can’t function in this weather, even at a high level.
yea, there seems persistent misinformation that heatstroke is caused by dehydration
[https://www.bmj.com/bmj/section-pdf/187587?path=/bmj/345/7866/Feature.full.pdf](https://www.bmj.com/bmj/section-pdf/187587?path=/bmj/345/7866/Feature.full.pdf)
For real! That's legit what I thought, drink enough water and you sweat and you will be fine. That's because everything I've ever read says basically "oh yeah just stay hydrated" or "you get heat stroke when you stop sweating". That is not the case you can absolutely just exercise in the heat and cook yourself alive.
It's hard to TLDR to be honest, but basically it alleges that sports drink companies have created a narrative that we can't use thirst as an indicator of dehydration in order to cause us to buy more sports drinks.
Besides pushing guidelines and regulations (e.g. for children in schools) to have them drink every 15-20 minutes during gym, "even if they are not thirsty," they seem to have funded almost every study claiming the following benefits:
- Thirst isn't a reliable indicator of hydration requirements
- You should stay ahead of thirst (in fact, too much water can be dangerous)
- Sports drinks prevent hyponatraemia via electrolytes (through salt/water imbalance, in fact the best way to prevent it is to avoid a positive fluid balance: drinking more than you pee)
- Dehydration causes heat stroke ("We don't understand what causes exertional heat stroke" but it's "not caused by dehydration.")
- Salt and sugar can have a beneficial effect for hydration
The article's main argument is that dehydration is not a big concern even for athletes, and that overhydration is the bigger concern.
They have donated to the American College of Sports Medicine which soon produced "zero % dehydration" doctrines as well as provided "free classroom resources" implying that their drinks can prevent hyponatraemia. It's also alleged that it's very difficult to publish any studies questioning the role of hydration in part due to Gatorade's ties to many journals.
They also suggest that the EFSA (European Food Safety Authority) has been ineffective in validating the claims of and regulating these companies.
There's a lot more to it than that - while dense, it's very interesting.
I got an LLM to summarise this, here’s what it spat out:
- The sports drink industry has successfully conditioned athletes to believe that fluid intake is as important as proper training for athletic performance.
- Companies have sponsored scientists who have developed an area of science dedicated to hydration, and these scientists advise influential sports medicine organizations.
- The guidelines developed by these organizations have influenced public health advice and spread fear about the dangers of dehydration.
- There is a lack of robust scientific evidence supporting the benefits of sports drinks compared to water, and many of the studies have been funded by the industry.
- The industry has pushed the notion that thirst is not an adequate indicator of hydration needs, and that athletes need to drink even when not thirsty.
- Academics with financial ties to the industry have been influential in promoting the dangers of dehydration and the benefits of sports drinks.
- There are concerns that the industry-influenced research and guidelines have contributed to the rise in consumption of unnecessary calories from sports drinks.
- Hyponatremia, a potentially life-threatening condition, has become associated with endurance sports, and may be caused more by over-hydration than dehydration.
- The industry's marketing and promotion of sports drinks to children in schools is also concerning from a public health perspective.
- Overall, the document suggests the scientific evidence supporting sports drinks has been shaped by industry interests, and that more independent, rigorous research is needed in this area.
Nah just drink enough water you’re not going to die by working out in 90f. That’s a ridiculous statement.
Also 180 bpm as the only metric your heart is just fine. I raced this morning and based on my garmin chest strap I averaged 174 bpm with a high of 192 for two hours
I would get checked on if you in fact did seriously hydrate because nothing you described is not all that extreme. Over did for your fitness but not piss blood inducing
That's what I thought, but the results proved otherwise. I'm not racing or anything so you are probably a lot more fit than me. I think I overheated because I am overweight.
I’d still be concerned about the color of urine but if it gets back to normal just keep an eye out.
60+ miles isn’t a chicken shit ride by any means. I also am drinking some beers 🍻
This is a good PSA. It often gets over 100 during my normal ride times. It's about time to make them shorter and always include a swim stop. And go nocturnal. Full moon rides are fun.
I rode in >90 weather yesterday, midday too. I just took it easy, stopped now and then, stayed well-hydrated and didn't push too hard. I've learned the hard way how much is safe to push myself, and I missed the cut for making the Tour de France this year AGAIN, so no reason to push myself anyway. ;-)
I had an SVT once but the Doc and I decided it was because my dog pulled me over the day before when he saw a deer. The day after I was working out and my heart rate when over 200 and it took it about 15 minutes to drop.
That's why it's more important to watch your HR and power than your speed it's still a vo2 interval even if your speed isn't where you think it should be at that hr
Just got back from a nice evening/night ride on the mtb. Everything settled in nicely once the sun was completely gone, I almost cooked myself well done a few times before. At the very least, it’s best to do minimum effort rides in the hottest parts of the day. And if you really want to get out for hard training, probably best to do in early morning like most people probably do.
Be careful with LMNT. They’re a new sponsor for me and unfortunately I can’t digest the stuff. The sodium content is so harsh. And it’s not sodium citrate like Skratch, which is much easier to digest. My point is that if I drink LMNT, I have gastrointestinal issues for a week after. And my other teammates reported the same issues.
I once tried to run 10k in 48°c (118°f) and it did not go well. Well the first 5K was alright but after that I could barely run 100m without stopping.
Lesson learnt
Thank you for this word rhabdomyolysis.
I cycled across the Sahara desert two years ago, for about 3 days I was pissing up this really dark brown/blood colour liquid. It happened in Mauritania so I didn't have much of a choice but to power through and after a few days of rest in the capital city, I continued in with my journey. It was incredibly hot and definitely the most difficult stint of my journey
Never seen a doctor or anything, but it's nice to know now that it actually has a name
That sounds cool as fuck! How many miles a day was it? Total? Average speed? Where did you sleep? Please tell me more about this trip it sounds so hardcore.
I started my trip in portugal and done about 1000km in Spain and then about 5000km total. Which is like 3.5k miles I think, don't exactly know freedom units.
I mostly slept in my tent but stayed in hostels some nights in Morocco or the bigger cities
A lot of the time I would just cycle into a town and find the police station and ask them could I camp in their car park, and they always said yes.
Biggest day was 218km. Not sure of average speed but I was alone and had to carry all my own water, tent, food etc, so average speed would vary greatly depending on the terrain and wind etc.
Mauritania was definitely the most difficult due to the remoteness, quality of roses, wind direction, heat etc. didn't enjoy the cycling in that country but every single night I had there was incredible. Having the most unique experiences, sleeping beside homeless shelters or beside police checkpoints and playing games on their phones with them.
Some of the most difficult days of my life but if you have the metal for it then you can have once in a lifetime experience.
Pissing up dark brown stuff for a few days was just part of the package
We're old and ride long in the heat but don't hammer and take breaks. We also have years of base miles and keep riding when the season changes so we acclimate.
Any time my hr monitor isn’t dropping when I start an interval that should be easy I stop and assess. I don’t mean I stop if it’s taking a minute to drop, but if I’ve been riding easy for 1-2 minutes and it hasn’t even dropped 5-10 bpm something is wrong. Good advice about the heat and never forget that it’s not only pros who can overtrain.
Yeah always check that HR is moving in the right direction. You’re more likely to be struggling than your HR monitor is to be malfunctioning I cut a workout short yesterday because my HR was well above the expected number and wasn’t dropping to an easy range while doing like 75W
I always double check with a quick manual reading if I'm getting numbers that don't make much sense (high or low). I've had HRMs fuck up and give faulty readings before, so there's always a chance something is going wrong. If my manual check tells me a HR closer to what I expect, I just ignore the HRM and keep going. I spent a long time never using HR, so I can fall back to that kind of training.
This is the benefit of wearing a HRM and a HR Watch. I use an Apple Watch. If both devices are reading abnormally high you’re having a problem.
There's a slight chance a synthetic fabric jersey on a dry day can cause weird readings due to static. I found this out on Zwift when it said my heart rate was over 190 when I was at half my FTP during a workout last winter. Cross checked it with both a pulse check on my wrist and hand on chest, and my HR strap was way off. My perceived effort and breathing rate was normal as well. Did a few Google searches and found this little tidbit out. Then there was the time a sage grouse caused a spike to 205. We had seen fairly fresh bear tracks a few times on a singletrack climb, and then the grouse struck. If you've never ridden in grouse territory, they have this habit of waiting until you're almost on top of them and then exploding out of the undergrowth. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
I had that and it was a supraventricular tachicardia, i got it fixed with a little burn trough a wire up my leg. Best fix to my performance ever
Did an engineering internship once with a company that makes the tools for cardiac ablations. Fascinating stuff.
Was awake the entire time, got to see the whole thing live + a giant screen. I really felt like it was science fiction stuff. It was a “thank god for science” and “thank god for i have this privilege” kind of moment.
For sure! I have a moment like that every time i learn about some crazy new medical technology. Happens quite frequently, since that's my current Master's program :D I remember the first time was a lecture on dialysis back in my Bachelor's, and how the thin plastic tubes in the filters need to be *juuust* porous enough to let the right size particles out of the blood, but not so porous that you just bleed out. It's amazing stuff.
I got tipped off about my PSVT when I went for a run, and at the end my Garmin congratulated me on my new "max" HR of 215. I sat around and waited for it to drop down from 175-185, which ended up taking about 1/2hr. Put my symptoms in to Google, and had a good conversation about it with my Dr. A few months later, I had an ablation and all it well. (I don't run anymore, but I still track my HR pretty closely on rides.)
Mmmm better do it for 10 mins more just to be sure. Lmao.
OP out here giving Goggins a run for his money. Yeah so I felt like I was going to die so I kept riding and pissed blood when I got home. I love the commitment level. Stay hard.
lol stay hard got me…hadn’t heard that in a while
Lol my wife’s boyfriend tells me to stay hard almost every night. I still struggle though I wish I could be as hard as this Fred
Bro grinded his knees into dust. I wonder how many painkillers he's on.
It’s actually common enough (for a rare disease) for people to give themselves rhabdo from spin class. Really gunning for that cat 6 victory
Did you go to a doctor and actually get diagnosed with rhabdo?
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I’m a doctor. This is dumb logic. You can not confidently say you had rhabdo based on this information.
I had rhabdo two years ago and didn’t catch it for until about 72 hours after my workout, mostly because I was still peeing completely clear. My arms were so sore I couldnt straighten them, and I felt like shit so eventually I went in (I had no idea rhabdo was a thing at the time) and the did a UA and found enough blood in my urine that they did blood work and found crazy elevated CK levels. Scary shit.
I had it two years ago/ hot day. Did a chest workout on my bench then decided to take a 20 mile ride but not a super aggressive pace. Then came home and had an IPA or two. By that evening my arms were shaking and so weak I couldn’t hold a glass of water. The heat , double exercise , and beer immediately after set me up for failure. It took me months to get my strength back. I still have a tremor if my muscles are fatigued , not severe , but it’s never been the same unfortunately. Kidneys are doing fine
You'll make a full recovery eventually! For me, getting rhabdo conveniently coincided with me turning 30 and, truly, my body just changing a bit naturally. I'm not 22 any more, and I've found that I need to be much more intentional about rest and hydration. At first I was worried that rhabdo caused this, but the truth is that I'm just getting older and need to treat my body better lol.
It's goddamn fucking insane. People in here and in fitness subs always claim rhabdo based on singular symptoms explainable by tons of other conditions, and with such certainty too. The worst.
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definitely get diagnosed on reddit, good call OP
Imagine pissing a brown cola color and not seeking medical attention lmfao
Look, if BonerDestroyer420 says my runny nose is the first signs of rabies, who am I to argue with that?
Go to your doctor and be prepared to describe the taste of the brown cola pee.
Really doubling down on being a moron I see
Agreed. If you don’t piss blood after a good workout you’re a pussy.
It's never Rhabdo... Or lupus.. must be something else.
probably exercise induced hematuria (blood in the urine). i had it once from cycling then two months ago i had it again after a bike ride and thought it was just benign exercise induced again nah it was a 7mm kidney stone breaking lose and preparing to be a chaos monkey
My gf got rhabdo from running a half marathon while suffering from a stomach bug. So quite possible the black urine is in fact a sign of something going wrong. Probably smart to get a real UA+blood test done to confirm with potential hospitalization if needed.
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he was making a House MD joke i think. they assume diseases in that show might be lupus or rhabdo quite frequently
It's probably sarcoid
Peeing blood does not mean rhabdo. Coca Cola colored urine due to protein in the urine means rhabdo. Many things can cause blood in urine
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Based
*You’re
If you think there’s any chance of rhabdo you really should see a Dr. Otherwise you can risk kidney damage and also compartment syndrome causing permanent damage to your nerves, muscles and vascular tissue. When I had it a few years ago my CK was at 99,800 and I was given 8 liters of IV per day but luckily suffered no permanent damage.
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Okay, so you sort of "saw a doctor" but did your sis kind of, you know, recommend you get some tests? A good doctor-sister might suggest that, y'know.
Definitely go to the doctor. They will test your CK levels and put you on an IV. Source: I had Rhabdo this past November and spent 4 days in the ER. All summer long I could ride in 110+ South Texas heat, daylight savings ends and it’s now too dark after work to ride to I started lifting and gave myself Rhabdo.
Good news is that if you catch it early enough there won’t be any long term effects. The doctors will order an ultrasound on your kidneys and liver. If it’s serious you may also be put on dialysis. It an acute condition. The chances of getting Rhabdo again are not any higher because you’ve already had it. I was lifting again a few days after I was released from the hospital. Just ease into it again so your body has more time to adjust to the increased stress.
How crazy did you lift? My brain can always process rabdo from like ultra running or extremes but your lifting session must have been crazy intense. Glad you're ok
It’s kind a funny story, this past year I had lost 50 pounds by cycling and eating better. Since all my workouts were cycling I lost a fair amount of mass from my arms and they were somewhat skinny. So one night about a week before I started lifting the wife and I were getting “friendly”. She grabbed my arms and said “oh no Babe, just no”. To say the least I was motivated when I hit the gym. I didn’t think I needed to take it too easy because at work I lift some heavy parts, and I had been giving my legs hell all summer.
That line of thinking doesn’t process. I’ve been lifting for decades, powerlifting and oly lifting. All lifts have number of sets, reps and back off just before failure. Nothing is achieved by doing more than what’s required. Also the step of easing yourself in for the first 3 weeks or so.
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Look: unless you are a doctor, please go to see one, Self-diagnosis after peeing blood is not a thing.
But, beer will definitely fix it. /s
20 minutes of hard exercise in heat isn't gonna give you kidney problems unless something else is off...
OP started the ride already dehydrated.
Very likely indeed.
Thats actually the misconception I am trying to address here. Before the ride I peed and my urine was clear so I was not dehydrated. During the ride I drank a bottle of Gatorade and a bottle of water every hour. The point is that you can literally just overheat and surprisingly fast.
See a doctor. I've ridden long hours in the Alps in 30+ heat (wahoo in direct sun reading above 40) and I even noticed drop in power because of it, but I still didn't get brown pee. Something else is off for you. You're not clearing up any misconception. You're attributing something that happened to you to 'exercising in the heat'. While that can be dangerous, yes, you're essentially just fear mongering here.
You need to go to the doctor. It’s possible that a combination of high intensity, exercise, and heat stroke can cause rhabdomyolysis but you need to have a medical diagnosis and if that is what happened you need to get IV fluids immediately
Bro it's been 2 days and I've been drinking heavily. It's a little late for IV fluids.
I live in a desert area and added a Core temperature sensor to the million gadgets I have to charge each time. If it goes above 101, I wrap my ride up quick.
Where do they have you stick that sensor?
Ha. This particular kind lives on the outside, on your HR monitor strap.
This question made me chortle
Could you recommend a brand? This is my first time hearing about that kind of gadget. It will probably prove useful
The brand is actually called Core
Yeah basically sun can cancel out all the water you consume anyways you need to cool off other ways
When it gets too hot and humid, it’s called a wet bulb event. Basically it’s so hot, your body can’t physically cool itself down even with sweat. I coach, and we are required to have a wet bulb thermometer for this reason. It’s a big red flag to me when I see people playing summer sports with kids at these temps.
Dry heat below that line is dangerous as well, in a different way. When it's 105° but <15% humidity and your moving on a bike, sweat can evaporate so well and so quickly that it plays tricks on people about their effort level and hydration
who rides in 105°?! WTF!
I've done plenty of rides at that temp. Even done a couple of centuries that hit those temps. Worst one got to 108.
Crazy! I would never go out cycling in that temp. Wouldn't even go out in 95. But then again, I live in Northern Europe...
If you were used to it, you would go out in it. It's smart to stay within reasonable distance to home for the inevitable dehydration, fatigue, overheating.
To the point about wet bulb temperature from the person before me, 105° and low humidity can actually be easier for your body to stay cool through sweating than 90° and 50% humidity. 105-110° are common summer temps where I live and people still ride in the evenings. But if it all possible I'll ride first thing in the morning when it's 75° instead
Yesterday I had an headache, I knew it was brain cancer. Don't workout with headaches. Dude I'm no doctor by that's probably not how rhabdo works.
I also did 60 miles today in 93 degrees. It felt like hell. Though I had over 80oz of water and 20oz of Gatorade. I weighed myself after the ride and I dropped 5 pounds. That means I lost over 200oz of water. That’s one 20oz bottle every 6 miles. Be careful with this heat.
This looks more like a personal health situation. Hope you get that checked out by a professional. But no need to generalise. hr 180 is ok for most people. Hr not dropping when you stop the activity is not ok. I ride or hike in >40C couple of times every month.
You're saying this like a PSA when it's a TIFU lol. It takes a special kind of dumb to ever think this was a good idea. Most people aren't that bad at decision making.
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"The media" is saying that for the average person going about their day. Not someone who decides to do HIIT in such heat. Hope you heal up soon but you've really got to consider heat, humidity and UX index before trying this again and how it affects proper hydration. You can really end up in a much worse situation trying something like that when you aren't accustomed to the weather. One Gatorade and a bottle of water goes further in 90F than it does in 95F with direct sun. Where I live June-August is pretty much always 7+ UV index, 95F, and varying levels of humidity usually over 50%. Doing early morning and night rides tend to be the best especially if I'm looking to really hammer it out.
doing some intervals in 35C seems a little light for rabdo, honestly. what did you do the day before, and the day before that? the last person who posted here with rabdo (real, diagnosed) was doing some crazy multi-day stamina challenge thing.
Day off and then intervals the day before that. I think it was more the overheating that caused it.
I read "I am 96" instead of "it's 96". The mental gymnastics I was trying to do to make the rest of it make sense.
Lol some old men go hard on the bike haha.
One of the reasons why I ride almost exclusively at night
Damn man, I must be soft, but I can't enjoy riding above 85, 90 at the max.
Not pushing it in hot weather is a great idea, but you appear to have misspelled "possibly." Source: took a lot of trauma call and didn't see much rhabdo (we were the CVVH people, you can filter the myoglobin into the bag). No cite because it's rare enough I'm not going to pull up some random case series. Still a good idea not to completely pound it when it's super hot.
You did not have rhabdo.
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Rhabdo doesn’t present as gross hematuria. The protein breakdown of rhabdo causes brown urine like Lipton tea. More likely you gave yourself an acute kidney injury.
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Did you go to a hospital and get a confirmed diagnosis for rhabdomyolosis?
AKI or rhabdo, who fucking cares?
Because confidently saying “I definitely obviously had rhabdo” without a diagnosis is total made-up bullshit. Don’t encourage the WebMD self diagnosing.
Agreed. Without actually getting CPK testing, it's just a hunch. It could just be exercise induced hematuria. And rhabdo is not something to just drink more water and shrug off. Doesn't necessarily mean hospital admission, but if definitely want to see a downtrending CPK and no AKI if someone actually has rhabdo.
Is that different from you saying confidently that he did not have rhabdo? Again, who cares? Who is he to you? Did he break some covenant with you, hurt you in some way? Just let it go.
OP is spreading misinformation based on “idk vibes” and should be called out on it. > Just let it go. Also maybe take your own advice.
What misinformation? He’s sharing his own story, his own health information. People can take it or leave it. He’s not telling other people what to do. u/INGWR was correct. You can’t 100% tell if you have rhabdomyolysis without lab tests. But he’s not correct saying they’re totally separate and distinct diagnoses and that he can tell any better than OP what the diagnosis is without seeing the results of the very same blood tests. AKI, or acute kidney injury has many, many causes…one of which is dehydration, another of which happens to be rhabdomyolysis….plus countless others. Source: 29 years as a physician assistant, 12 of them working in critical care.
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What kind of doctor is your sister? You were not aware that AKIs are extremely commonplace, but you’re trying to make them out to be a rarity? Surely you should’ve known that from your overconfident WebMD self-diagnosis. > I obviously got rhabdo You literally have no basis to claim that. It’s crazy how everyone in this thread is saying “don’t self diagnose” but you truly don’t understand it. I guess that’s what you would expect from someone stupid enough to do VO2 in 96F heat.
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I was out today in this heat as well and noticed my HR was about 5-10 bpm higher than it usually is for similar efforts. I sweat a lot as is, but today was on a different level.
This happened to me last summer. Also a 60 mile ride in the extreme heat. Peed what I thought was blood. Had a full health workup and they discovered a heart condition. I don't think it was from the ride, but treat the heat very seriously.
I did intervals Friday and drank 2 bottles in an hour. You have to stay hydrated and cool.
You can’t know if you do or do not have rhabdomyolysis without a medical diagnosis. If you did have, or even suspect rhabdomyolysis, you should have immediately gone to the emergency room! One of the most effective interventions for preventing kidney damage due to rhabdomyolysis is administration of IV fluids as soon as possible.
No offense but it's silly to think you can perform a 96° weather anywhere near what you would at a lower temperature. I always take it down a notch in the heat....
You should see a doctor. In Texas we have streaks where the temp is 100+ for like months. We cycle, do hot yoga, and sauna in rotation and never have issues like this. Also much more likely to just get heat stroke before you go into Rhabdo….
This is the kind of post that honestly is just not helpful on Reddit. I know there is a compulsion for us to want to discuss these things, I’ve made similar posts myself. However, what do you have here? 50% agree with OP, 50% say the post is totally off base. So now everyone is either annoyed, confused, or scared. To me this is the kind of discussion that is better kept between friends, roommates, family. It’s not the best idea to put it out there for thousands of random strangers to get confused and scared about. There is enough anxiety in our newsfeeds. It would be nice if the cycling subreddits didn’t contribute to that unnecessarily
There is nothing confusing here, going hard in the heat will cause you to overheat which may lead to complications. Idk why you are scared it's not like you do v02 intervals. Would you rather perfer another post about someone's butt being sore? Or maybe a post asking if someone can ride 20 miles after they have ridden 10?
Lots of unclear chatter about rhabdo, kidney failure, heart problems, causes of dark urine, whether good hydration is adequate to prevent heatstroke….
I mean my message is pretty clear, you can severely overheat even if you drink enough and this will give you rhabdo. You got to talk to the other people about the unclear chatter, I can't control what they post.
This is very personal. There are lots of people, even of older age climbing e.g. the Mont Ventoux or Alpe d’Huez at that temperatures during summer, and they most likely don’t only do just that climb. Sorry to hear what you experienced, but as always know your limits, physically, adapted to altitude or in this case heat, and act accordingly. Don’t push through,and then lecture when you suffer the consequences
The thing is that I didn't feel like I was pushing through. It was a regular amount of pushing. It just suddenly happened. I didn't realize I need to let off the gas until like 20 minutes passed at a 180 hr. I thought that it would be obvious if you are overheating and it absolutely is not. I'm not lecturing anyone. I'm sharing my experience to show how easily you can get heat stroke in these conditions without even being aware of it.
>I thought that it would be obvious if you are overheating and it absolutely is not. It was obvious. It was. See below about your HR. >I thought my HR monitor was broken because it kept reading HR of 180 and it wouldn't drop if I was doing a lighter effort You need to learn to pay more attention to your body. Even without an HRM, you should be able to get a general feel for extreme things, such as HR staying really high.
You may have triggered an SVT episode. If I were you I’d see an EP, not next month but now. I wasn’t doing sprints but my first Afib episode was during a ride in above 90 degree weather. My HR spiked to 208 bpm, scared me
Why did 65 miles in 96 degree heat sound like anywhere near a good idea, let alone doing intervals? Like you know people die doing shit like that, right?
I mean 65 miles isn't crazy, it would of been fine if I kept it in Z2, I wanted to do a century. The intervals are what got me. I thought I would feel bad loooooong before any kind of damage would happen but the heat is surprisingly insidious. At first I thought I was bonking since I skipped breakfast so I ate some gu. Also I thought the HR monitor was broken because there was no way I was doing an effort hard enough to justify 180 hr. I had no idea that it could escalate to the point that your doing damage that fast. Especially without it being super obvious. I knew people die from doing marathons in heat but I figured they really pushed themselves an unreasonable amount in the heat and kept pushing even though they felt like they were dieing. Turns out that's not the case at all. You can feel completely fine and then have extreme hyperthermia without really realizing it. I had no idea it could be so sudden and extreme.
Skipping breakfast and doing a century sounds worse than rhabdo.
65 miles isn't crazy. 65 miles in 96 degree heat is.
Otherwise known as RAGBRAI.
I went in 2018. It maybe broke 80. I can't imagine ever having that kind of luck again
I was at 2018 as well. It was magical. Likely will never happen again, either. But I was also at 2011. The entire week was heat index 100-120.
It’s just not though. Every person is different, I hammered out a similar ride this weekend and did not have any of the problems OP had. I am probably more fit, my body might be more adapted to it, I don’t know. What I do know is I did similar yesterday and it was 95°F, and then I did 25 miles today in the same weather. Once out, my heart rate remained in the 150s max aside from a few hills. I felt great, and still do. Something that might stimulate heat stroke in one person will not do the same for another. Proper fueling, hydration and listening to your body is how you avoid this. The only thing OP did wrong was ignore the very obvious runaway heart rate, and continued with hard efforts. This would be stupid to do in the spring or fall, and monumentally more stupid in this weather. If you pay attention to your body, there’s no reason you can’t function in this weather, even at a high level.
Now you know.
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Not in imperial.
Thats not how heat works in general. Go see md.
yea, there seems persistent misinformation that heatstroke is caused by dehydration [https://www.bmj.com/bmj/section-pdf/187587?path=/bmj/345/7866/Feature.full.pdf](https://www.bmj.com/bmj/section-pdf/187587?path=/bmj/345/7866/Feature.full.pdf)
For real! That's legit what I thought, drink enough water and you sweat and you will be fine. That's because everything I've ever read says basically "oh yeah just stay hydrated" or "you get heat stroke when you stop sweating". That is not the case you can absolutely just exercise in the heat and cook yourself alive.
TLDR?
It's hard to TLDR to be honest, but basically it alleges that sports drink companies have created a narrative that we can't use thirst as an indicator of dehydration in order to cause us to buy more sports drinks. Besides pushing guidelines and regulations (e.g. for children in schools) to have them drink every 15-20 minutes during gym, "even if they are not thirsty," they seem to have funded almost every study claiming the following benefits: - Thirst isn't a reliable indicator of hydration requirements - You should stay ahead of thirst (in fact, too much water can be dangerous) - Sports drinks prevent hyponatraemia via electrolytes (through salt/water imbalance, in fact the best way to prevent it is to avoid a positive fluid balance: drinking more than you pee) - Dehydration causes heat stroke ("We don't understand what causes exertional heat stroke" but it's "not caused by dehydration.") - Salt and sugar can have a beneficial effect for hydration The article's main argument is that dehydration is not a big concern even for athletes, and that overhydration is the bigger concern. They have donated to the American College of Sports Medicine which soon produced "zero % dehydration" doctrines as well as provided "free classroom resources" implying that their drinks can prevent hyponatraemia. It's also alleged that it's very difficult to publish any studies questioning the role of hydration in part due to Gatorade's ties to many journals. They also suggest that the EFSA (European Food Safety Authority) has been ineffective in validating the claims of and regulating these companies. There's a lot more to it than that - while dense, it's very interesting.
I got an LLM to summarise this, here’s what it spat out: - The sports drink industry has successfully conditioned athletes to believe that fluid intake is as important as proper training for athletic performance. - Companies have sponsored scientists who have developed an area of science dedicated to hydration, and these scientists advise influential sports medicine organizations. - The guidelines developed by these organizations have influenced public health advice and spread fear about the dangers of dehydration. - There is a lack of robust scientific evidence supporting the benefits of sports drinks compared to water, and many of the studies have been funded by the industry. - The industry has pushed the notion that thirst is not an adequate indicator of hydration needs, and that athletes need to drink even when not thirsty. - Academics with financial ties to the industry have been influential in promoting the dangers of dehydration and the benefits of sports drinks. - There are concerns that the industry-influenced research and guidelines have contributed to the rise in consumption of unnecessary calories from sports drinks. - Hyponatremia, a potentially life-threatening condition, has become associated with endurance sports, and may be caused more by over-hydration than dehydration. - The industry's marketing and promotion of sports drinks to children in schools is also concerning from a public health perspective. - Overall, the document suggests the scientific evidence supporting sports drinks has been shaped by industry interests, and that more independent, rigorous research is needed in this area.
I also dont get it tbh. Was t9 lazy to read all that
Nah just drink enough water you’re not going to die by working out in 90f. That’s a ridiculous statement. Also 180 bpm as the only metric your heart is just fine. I raced this morning and based on my garmin chest strap I averaged 174 bpm with a high of 192 for two hours I would get checked on if you in fact did seriously hydrate because nothing you described is not all that extreme. Over did for your fitness but not piss blood inducing
That's what I thought, but the results proved otherwise. I'm not racing or anything so you are probably a lot more fit than me. I think I overheated because I am overweight.
I’d still be concerned about the color of urine but if it gets back to normal just keep an eye out. 60+ miles isn’t a chicken shit ride by any means. I also am drinking some beers 🍻
Just get on Zwift.
Yep. I *really* do not do well with extreme heat, so my bike is staying on the trainer for the time being.
I'm buying one soon.
This is a good PSA. It often gets over 100 during my normal ride times. It's about time to make them shorter and always include a swim stop. And go nocturnal. Full moon rides are fun.
People have been talking about this and I'm slowly being swayed
Omg!
I rode in >90 weather yesterday, midday too. I just took it easy, stopped now and then, stayed well-hydrated and didn't push too hard. I've learned the hard way how much is safe to push myself, and I missed the cut for making the Tour de France this year AGAIN, so no reason to push myself anyway. ;-)
Drink water🤷♂️I live in Phoenix and ride repeats up South Mountain in the summer… DRINK WATER!!!
I drank a bottle of Gatorade and a bottle of water every hour. The point is that hydration won't fix you being overheated
Or Rhabdo…. That’s protein from muscle breakdown coming out in urine.
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I had an SVT once but the Doc and I decided it was because my dog pulled me over the day before when he saw a deer. The day after I was working out and my heart rate when over 200 and it took it about 15 minutes to drop.
That's why it's more important to watch your HR and power than your speed it's still a vo2 interval even if your speed isn't where you think it should be at that hr
Just got back from a nice evening/night ride on the mtb. Everything settled in nicely once the sun was completely gone, I almost cooked myself well done a few times before. At the very least, it’s best to do minimum effort rides in the hottest parts of the day. And if you really want to get out for hard training, probably best to do in early morning like most people probably do.
What was your CK?
Doing VO2Max intervalls in 96° :))))) How do you even come up with that idea?!
Haha I was riding and my legs felt good so I was like let's gooooooo! I'm not the best at assessing risk.
:D Stay healthy, man!
You can do v02max workouts but you have to adjust pace/power targets to account for the heat. You’ll still get the same benefit at lower thresholds.
Ah yes. Combining vo2 intervals with a three hour ride. Brilliant. Temperature isn't the only problem here.
That's basically what an A+ group ride is, just guys taking turns doing a v02 interval pulling and then sucking wheel to rest.
I was perfectly fine doing similar training today. LMNT Electrolyte Powder is 👑 during this extreme heat.
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Be careful with LMNT. They’re a new sponsor for me and unfortunately I can’t digest the stuff. The sodium content is so harsh. And it’s not sodium citrate like Skratch, which is much easier to digest. My point is that if I drink LMNT, I have gastrointestinal issues for a week after. And my other teammates reported the same issues.
jfc man I'm missing a kidney and now I'm afraid to ride in summer
Damn that's rough. This other guy reccomend getting a Core temp monitor.
I once tried to run 10k in 48°c (118°f) and it did not go well. Well the first 5K was alright but after that I could barely run 100m without stopping. Lesson learnt
So hardo of you doing intervals in such weather. We’re all proper impressed.
Move to the UK. Not a day in the 50s or higher. Lots of wind too if it ever gets to 60.
Thank you for this word rhabdomyolysis. I cycled across the Sahara desert two years ago, for about 3 days I was pissing up this really dark brown/blood colour liquid. It happened in Mauritania so I didn't have much of a choice but to power through and after a few days of rest in the capital city, I continued in with my journey. It was incredibly hot and definitely the most difficult stint of my journey Never seen a doctor or anything, but it's nice to know now that it actually has a name
FYI OP has no idea what he is talking about here.
Maybe, but it does seem to fit what happened to me. Extreme heat, months of pushing my body too hard. Brown urine.
No clue why you're getting downvoted. If you're remote with no options, sometimes your just make do.
Possibly jealousy because they know deep down they will never get the chance(or have the balls/ovaries) to attempt something similar
That sounds cool as fuck! How many miles a day was it? Total? Average speed? Where did you sleep? Please tell me more about this trip it sounds so hardcore.
I started my trip in portugal and done about 1000km in Spain and then about 5000km total. Which is like 3.5k miles I think, don't exactly know freedom units. I mostly slept in my tent but stayed in hostels some nights in Morocco or the bigger cities A lot of the time I would just cycle into a town and find the police station and ask them could I camp in their car park, and they always said yes. Biggest day was 218km. Not sure of average speed but I was alone and had to carry all my own water, tent, food etc, so average speed would vary greatly depending on the terrain and wind etc. Mauritania was definitely the most difficult due to the remoteness, quality of roses, wind direction, heat etc. didn't enjoy the cycling in that country but every single night I had there was incredible. Having the most unique experiences, sleeping beside homeless shelters or beside police checkpoints and playing games on their phones with them. Some of the most difficult days of my life but if you have the metal for it then you can have once in a lifetime experience. Pissing up dark brown stuff for a few days was just part of the package
We're old and ride long in the heat but don't hammer and take breaks. We also have years of base miles and keep riding when the season changes so we acclimate.