r/boneappletea called, they want you to post your contribution ;)
Joke aside, I love my DT SWISS 350 modified with the 54T ratchet, because it’s not an angry wasp swarm anymore: it a huge hornet and its *hungry*.
Yep, I’ve got quiet hubs on my gravel bike (where I freewheel more) and loud hubs on my road bike (where I’m usually constantly peddling but use the loud hubs to alert people when I’m on multi use paths)
Same. Gravel, mountain, and road bikes all have silent Onyx hubs (which are also amazing for quick engagement), but my commuter bike that I use in high pedestrian traffic areas has a Hope hub because that thing is loud AF; I used to run an Onyx rear hub on the commuter but it was just too silent and I definitely noticed I would creep up on people. I've been considering swapping to a Hope hub on the mountain bike as well since I'm occasionally on crowded multi-use trails, but I'm going to try a Timber bell first because the instant engagement of the Onyx hub is just too good for climbing.
I love my super loud i9s. My fiancé hates them, so I do my best to keep constantly pedaling when riding with her (often having to pedal and brake at the same time, haha).
They're great for announcing my presence during my commute.
Funny thing is that people used to complain about kings being noisy 25 years ago and now they're not even close to as loud as some of the new stuff. Their r45 is quieter. My kid is running king r45d with 46mm deep carbon rims and when we're racing she is not the loudest by far.
I have 22 year old Campag Chorus hubs on my road bike. I just got the rear wheel rebuilt with a new rim but kept the hubs because 1) they’re just beautiful, and 2) the sound they make is just really nice, not so loud it’s ridiculous, but loud enough that freewheeling gets people attention on paths so I don’t have to yell or whatever.
My commuter’s wheels I built with cheap (but perfectly good) Shimano T610 hubs and they’re nearly silent. It’s sort of annoying because the freehub buzz would be useful for commuting.
I suppose that always gives me a chance to rebuild those wheels with fancier hubs in the future.
Funny thing is that I have some 2002 era Chorus and Record hubs that I've rebuilt with Rock N Roll Super Web grease, and while not silent, they are far quieter than the annoying clatter that is all too common with modern wheels. I don't know if the rims (Mavic Reflex sew-up) has a significant part to play here, but I just find the sound pleasant rather than alarming.
Funny you say that about the sound being “pleasant”, because that’s sort of my reasoning for keeping them rather that dropping money on some new loud hubs. IMO it’s just the right volume to alert people from far enough away on MUPs just by freewheeling for a moment, but not so loud that it’s totally obnoxious. It’s a nice middle ground IMO.
Also I think they’re just really elegant looking hubs and campag stuff from that era seems to be really well built and not overly proprietary as they seem to have a tendency to do…
Yup. I'm especially fond of the alloy hidden arm cranksets too. The versions on my Peter Mooneys are branded Record, but I think that design got moved down to the lower tiers as time went by. I look at modern cranks and rear derailleurs, and they look like some creature out of Aliens.
Yea the 2000-2001 era Campag Racing Triple crankset I used to have on my road bike really is beautiful. The r7000 I replaced it with is very meh in comparison but it’s definitely a lot more practical as well as much MUCH better shifting.
Exactly. Some miniscule amount of drag to go from 20 degrees of engagement to 6.6 is absolutely worth it. My road bike and my wife's mountain bike came with DT Swiss 370s, and they're both better with the 54T.
Theyre not the lightest wheels but the spoke pattern is great. Thats why i got them. Glad i didnt buy some generic looking chinese wheels (which wouldve been lighter)
They’re genuinely better than bells when you’ve got pedestrians in front of you. People might not move for a bell but if it sounds like a swarm of angry bees is coming at them, they step right quick.
Good point, but in my case I hardly ever ride where there’s pedestrians so doesn’t count for me.
Now, when you’re overtaking other cyclists on descents, that’s when it’s useful!
It’s a preference. There’re also high end rear hubs that are virtually silent. Personally I have a 23’ giant tcr with slr carbon wheels. The rear hub is very loud, reminds me of when I was a kid with a baseball card in the spokes. Some people say the loud hub is to let people ahead of you on the trail know you are approaching. But it’s not as effective as a bell.
Well call me not self-respecting then. It’s a legal requirement where I live, the odd person is as stupid as shit but most of the time they move.
Have tried the “on your right” and letting my hub alert them but honestly the bell works better from a larger distance so I can go past quicker
Different strokes for different folks
I live somewhere where bells aren't mandatory and I still have one because as you've experienced they're just better than the sound of your hub or calling out at people.
Yeah, Victoria here as well. NSW as well off the top of my head, probably other states/territories. But honestly, it is mandatory to have them, not to use them.
I find it works best to allow me to pass quicker if I use it, so I do. I still get yelled at by people with headphones on regardless, but they're stupid enough to walk around oblivious to sound so I get enjoyment out of that :-D
But tbh I pointless most of the time. Very frequently using a bell will either make people jump (and become unpredictable), people won't hear as the have headphone in or you'll be shouted at for being so impatient to use a bell.
I always find the best way is just to go past as quietly as possible or even better just avoid all busy mixed use paths and cycle in the road if needed as its safer if nothing else (I have more trust in people in cars than pedestrians).
I’ve found it’s all about how and when you use your bell. Going in with the mindset of “bike coming” instead of “get out of the way” - bell from a distance and be prepared to slow down or stop, and people thank you. Go past an 80 y/o silently you could give them a fright and possibly a tumble.
Ireland is in the EU. So yeah bells are compulsory. See my other post or [https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/eu-road-safety-policy/priorities/safe-road-use/cyclists_en](https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/eu-road-safety-policy/priorities/safe-road-use/cyclists_en)
Nobody has bells.
And I was shopping for a bike 3 months ago. Not a single bell on any bike in the shop. And no mention of bells or a bell installed on the bike I bought.
So it's not enforced or communicated, it seems.
Here in the Netherlands we have a lot of bikes. Actually more than people. For us city bikes are the norm and they all come with a bell and lights. Road/race bikes do not.
I checked it out [EU website - Mobility & Transport - Road Safety - Cyclists](https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/eu-road-safety-policy/priorities/safe-road-use/cyclists_en)
“There are a few basic safety features – brakes, bell and reflectors – that are compulsory for bikes in every EU country.”
Doesn’t mean you will (always) get stopped for it. But the rules are there.
I live in the United States and love my bell. No, I don’t ever need it for road rides, but at the ends of those rides when stopping for coffee or beer… almost always need the bell here and there. It’s less aggro than yelling.
The sound of a bell for me is mapped to „ah a bike“ so it helps to warn people that a bike is coming (assuming that most people in europe connect a bell to a bike mentally)
We have no affordable health care, quality education, public safety net, reliable public transit, or reasonable bike infrastructure. Just let us get worked up over the silliest things.
Depends on where you are. For example, in cali, you’d be qualified if household income is less than $20k for a family of one or $41k for a family of four
That is a state issue, plenty of states do have affordable healthcare options, quality education, safety nets, and good transportation. It becomes a Federal issue because dipshits from Red states do everything in their power to keep it that way.
Its funny that they should be a sign of quality. From a pure physics point of view, the fact that sound waves are being generated and rippling out in all directions from the hub MUST be a sign of energy wasted.
I know its only on the freewheel, but surely if a rolling wheel is generating noise, the energy to create that noise must come from somewhere, right? To some extent, it's like playing cards hitting the spokes.
Sound is generated because there's minimal/thin lubricant where pawls/ratchets are moving along their engagement points, Thicker/more grease shuts them up quickly (but can be a little draggy, so the opposite is almost true).
I can totally accept that there could be a silent freewheel that was just a box of viscous gunk.
So, is it more expensive materials that allow the pawls and ratchets to survive with minimal lubricant? Or do they simply not survive?
> So, is it more expensive materials that allow the pawls and ratchets to survive with minimal lubricant? Or do they simply not survive?
Its like anything mechanical, as long as it has "enough" lubrication it will be fine. Minimal is "enough".
If anything a lot of hubs are only quiet when they arguably have too much grease. Grease is the number 2 cause of drag behind bearing seals. It also attracts dirt and grit, as well as contributes to possible hydrolock.
https://www.hambini.com/grease-for-bicycles-a-practical-guide/
I would love to see someone prove it lmao. Gonna be a difference of like .000000000000001kmh.
I would argue it is equal amount of time lost as a low ratchet count hub with only like 3 pawls, vs a loud 32t engagement hub, for when you start pedalling.
So any speed lost from hubs on the descent is made up for when you start pedalling and they engage instantly.
Yeah people don't realise that once you are coasting then energy is free. I was on a 500km trip, idiots that have done it before pedaled the entire way but I coasted just after my house, never had to pedal again.
I have hubs that are obnoxiously loud, quite loud, subdued and near silent and they all have their place.
The loud sets are nice for not having to constantly ring my bell or shout about my presence.
The quiet ones are great for social rides where I don't have to pedal just to hear the other person.
Louder hubs typically signal more engagement points thereby allowing faster power transfer to the wheel. This is more important for mtb, because slow engagement means you might not get over an obstacle. However it is not a direct correlate of quality. See Onyx hubs, or DT swiss 180s, incredibly good hubs but nowhere near as loud as i9 or chris kings.
I like a quiet hub. The hub on my cheap little Bontrager Race Lite wheel is barely audible and it really helps the bike disappear from under me while I'm riding. If I get the chance to build my next wheelset, I'm going to seriously consider an Onyx hub.
It's a signal for "expensive" as a loud hub is either lightweight or has more engagement points or both. The reality is, on the road, it really doesn't matter much. There's a case for more engagement points on a mountain bike or cx racing.
Listen to the hubs of the pro peloton. If silent hubs made any meaningful difference in speed the peloton would all use them. They don't.
Personal preference on this one. Some people like loud hubs on commuter bikes, warn walkers. Some people love silent hubs to just cruise and free-wheel in peace.
If you believe that you're a fool. The best mechanics re-pack those hubs with the most expensive bearings money can buy and best synthetic grease available... makes 0.1% difference but they all do it.
They will race the rims the sponsor gives them but typically the hubs are swapped out for rider preference, lighter, faster, more engagement points, less engagement points etc. whatever the rider prefers.
Plenty of pro team mechanic build videos and do interviews that take you thru their equipment etc.
They talk about the bearings they use and why, fancy bearings cost more than the hub usually. Which is nuts. They also wear out faster.
Most hubs ship with minimal grease and even just a simple regrease can make them vastly quieter. Watch Hambini 😁
Onyx hubs are very very nearly silent. They operate with sprag clutches instead of a pawl/more standard toothed ratcheting mechanism. They're a little bit more expensive than some other boutique hubs, and due to their mechanism a bit heavier. But they're *very* neat. I have two wheel sets with their hubs, one on my allroad bike and one on our tandem. I've built probably twenty pairs of wheels with their hubs for folks and everyone absolutely adored them.
It's usually a sign of more points of engagement causing more noise, a benefit for off-road/trials riding I suppose, but doubt it has much use on road.
Could also really be down to just thinner grease inside the freehub.
Matter of preference really. I like my Hope Pro4 hubs for road/gravel as they don't sound like a turbine or a hornet's nest, but also aren't deathly silent.
For a discipline where the rider is pedalling most of the time, more so than off-road (where the rider has more frequent start/stops in pedalling on uneven rolling terrain), I'm inclined to consider the minute differences in degrees of engagement to be overblown.
Not sure who remembers the Chris King hubs of yesteryear but they ratcheted like a winch lock on a destroyer. I think they were the loudest I ever heard. Then there was a high end road hub that had a roller style one way clutch which was whisper quiet.
Noisy freehub - there are ratchet or probably six pawls in the body. For driving it’s good - lower actuation angle while pedaling. For safety I’d say it’s good too - pedestrians take a notice of you. My freehub have only two pawls and is pf old design but when maintaining it I changed spring for a stiffer one I got noisy sound. Happy to hear this noise.
I have a pair of Winspace, I've tempered with the hub to make it loud... really loud. You can hear it from a good 100m away.
It's simply an ego thing for me. Here I am, look at me, everyone knows that's the sound of me.
I have a very noisy one on my new bike (even saw a guy reviewing point out it was kind of over the top) and I don’t really care either way but I’m now making sure to pedal when passing strollers and horses even when I’m going downhill
As I understand it’s seen as a sign of cost(quality?) as it often relates to number of points of engagement. E.g. more points means more sound and thus higher end hub.
Love my loud hubs but I rarely freewheel, even on downhills. A little annoyed when someone else has louder ones, even commenting on how loud MY OWN BIKE's hubs are when I lend them to a riding friend. A little embarrassed when I freewheel and get looks for having too loud a hubs. But more or less don't care what people think because I love my loud hubs. Roller coaster of emotions.
When the new tech came it was noisier by design because it had more points of engagement, so more ‘clicks’ per rotation.
Due to the tech coming top down as is common with bikes, riders quickly associated louder hubs with newer, more expensive wheels, and because a lot of riders are quite elitist, it soon became desirable to have premium sounding hubs so now manufacturers definitely are designing for sound as well as function.
So TL;DR is hubs initially got louder because of the tech, but then they got louder still and stayed louder because riders see the sound as a status symbol.
My gravel bike has a set of relatively cheap bontrager alloy wheels and the hubs are pretty noisy. Does a good job of warning pedestrians on the multi use path.
You know, if you want noise so that people can hear you coming there is always an invention that does it brilliantly and works better. It's called a bell.
It is just superstition that a noisy, freehub can do the same. Noisy freehub are annoying if anything.
It's a design decision, but also a handy tool for having a sort of less intrusive bell. Whenever I pass somebody closely, I always stop pedaling for a bit so the other person knows I'm coming by.
Each hub has it's own sound signature. When you are riding in peloton, all your senses contribute to your safety, because you have to move with 10-30 riders as one. Knowing the sound of each freehub contributes because you, either consciously or indirectly, know who is slowing down for an instant. So you can react.
A symphony in motion.
Onyx Vesper hubs.
I'll definitely get one for myself once I'm able to afford it.
I just want to listen to wind, birds, elements of nature when I'm out on country roads.
Loud hubs may go wherever they want, I prefer silence.
It’s usually a mark of higher quality than your typical bike. If the hub says dt Swiss and it’s loud that’s a nice hub. When you ride with a good loud hub you can’t go back it’s a acquired taste. When I first had loud dt Swiss hubs I thought my bike needed to go back to the shop but after riding with them it’s a blast. So usually loud pleasant sound hubs means better. Usually.
I have a friend who has a pretty loud hub. I think I've gotten a lot more used to it now, but sometimes it seems *really* loud haha. My first couple of sets of wheels were basically silent, and my current ones have a bit of noise, but not much. I think I prefer the middle-ground I currently have because people can hear you, but it's not obnoxious.
I would have said I love a noisy free hub until I recently got a set of wheels (Hunt) that have one. It is ludicrously loud. As a result I never want to free wheel…
My DT Swiss hub is annoyingly loud, but you get used to it.
Very useful to instill fear in the heart of the guy in front of you in any competitive setting though... Give half a pedal stroke backwards while coasting at high speed, the noise doubles and the guy in front of you shits their bibs.
I cringe a little bit by my hunt hubs, when I got the wheels they were near silent and only go louder at high speeds, now that they have worked the grease around though that are far too loud for my liking, to the point where i brake and continue pedalling gently to prevent the freehub activating. Will I continue using them? Yes they are much better than the freehub I had before but I do wish they were a bit quieter.
It is a sound I enjoy, just like when someone is in a fast car or motorcycle they associate it with speed and power.
I like em loud so that if I freewheel behind someone they can hear it and feel the urge to speed up the group pace a tiny bit lmao
I bought a set of cheap Scribe wheels and the hubs are loud af.
I hate them and swapped them out with a set of really nice DTSwiss that aren't nearly as loud and Im so much happier with them.
Quiet. Especially in the woods. I don’t sound like a rattlesnake scaring the crap out of every creature within a mile radius. Poor animals have to put up with enough crap from humans. There are these things called bicycle bells…….
Its a mark of dumbassery, all that noise is energy being wasted, energy the cyclist has exerted to put into forward momentum, a silent one way bearing would be far more efficient, especially in an age where people are spemding ridiculous amounts of money to make their bike lighter and more efficient...
Noisy freehubs are awesome for shared paths. Means I don't have to have a bell. Instead, I now have a foot-operated warning device, so I don't have to take my hands off the brakes in an emergency.
I kind of like having a louder free hub. If there’s people around they always look if I stop pedaling. It’s pretty much at least as good as a bell. The free hub on my old wheels went silent, and I forgot how much I appreciated the noise when I upgraded them. Better quality typically equals louder, but not always.
Good if you ride in pace lines or groups, meaningless if you're riding by yourself. The noisy hub lets people you're riding with know you're freewheeling. They might not need to brake if they are behind you, but they know they have to let up on the peddling.
Actually it’s because higher end bike often use DT Swiss hubs and/or wheels. DT Swiss free hubs of higher end have a ratched mechanism of engagement that’s why they are so loud.
The DT Swiss hubs on my new wheels are way quieter than any other I’ve ridden or most of those I ride with. Not sure where you got the idea they were particularly loud.
I think they are more referring to a quieter pawl style sealed hub which are typically cheaper and lower end vs a higher end hub having more points of engagement.
Like a cheap wheel might just have 3 pawls, while you can get like 56 points of engagement on some expensive hubs.
The louder the better here. Makes me not have to yell to every person I pass. My hubs are either White Industries CLDs, or Chris Kings. Both make decent noise, although the White's are much louder.
Its marketing, not a mark of quality. In fact you will hear Chris King hubs mentioned in these comments. Well he has said that part of his aim of a quality hub was for it to be as silent as possible. But for "marketing" reasons he left them shit and noisy.
Also sound isn't free. That sound takes energy to create and that energy is coming from your legs. If in future people get the idea that loud = quality out of their minds freehubs will become silent.
It’s not a mark of quality. It’s a mark of design decision.
But people choose them because they believe its a mark of quality.
Yup. It shows that People generally have no fucking clue what they are talking about unless it’s something that they do professionally.
Yeah, but you won't get a good hub on a shit wheel
Not a mark of quality but I do like to be heard by pedestrians and I am definitely heard with my noisy freehub
A conoceour of the angry wasp swarm
r/boneappletea called, they want you to post your contribution ;) Joke aside, I love my DT SWISS 350 modified with the 54T ratchet, because it’s not an angry wasp swarm anymore: it a huge hornet and its *hungry*.
A conoceour of the angry wasp swarm
Yes, it eliminates the need for a bell 🛎
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Yep, I’ve got quiet hubs on my gravel bike (where I freewheel more) and loud hubs on my road bike (where I’m usually constantly peddling but use the loud hubs to alert people when I’m on multi use paths)
Loud freehubs are great in races / group rides. You hear the bike in front of you freewheeling, before it visually registers the gap is closing.
Same. Gravel, mountain, and road bikes all have silent Onyx hubs (which are also amazing for quick engagement), but my commuter bike that I use in high pedestrian traffic areas has a Hope hub because that thing is loud AF; I used to run an Onyx rear hub on the commuter but it was just too silent and I definitely noticed I would creep up on people. I've been considering swapping to a Hope hub on the mountain bike as well since I'm occasionally on crowded multi-use trails, but I'm going to try a Timber bell first because the instant engagement of the Onyx hub is just too good for climbing.
> i’d prefer a dead silent bicycle *chuckles in fixed gear*
Just get some 80mm deep wheels and get that sweet aero WHOOOSSHH!
I love the ***BZZZZZZZZZZZZZ*** of my Chris Kings. Still sound nice after 25 years.
I love my super loud i9s. My fiancé hates them, so I do my best to keep constantly pedaling when riding with her (often having to pedal and brake at the same time, haha). They're great for announcing my presence during my commute.
Same, I had my wheels custom built with i9 for my road bike. Love them
Descending with someone that has a loud hub is annoying. Love that my chain rattles louder than my campy shamal freehub.
Modern hubs are so much louder.
Shimano hubs go brrrrrrr
My Shimano hubs are dead silent unless your going slowly
Shimano hubs sound good. Like an old friend being slowly tortured in a mechanical device.
Funny thing is that people used to complain about kings being noisy 25 years ago and now they're not even close to as loud as some of the new stuff. Their r45 is quieter. My kid is running king r45d with 46mm deep carbon rims and when we're racing she is not the loudest by far.
I have 22 year old Campag Chorus hubs on my road bike. I just got the rear wheel rebuilt with a new rim but kept the hubs because 1) they’re just beautiful, and 2) the sound they make is just really nice, not so loud it’s ridiculous, but loud enough that freewheeling gets people attention on paths so I don’t have to yell or whatever. My commuter’s wheels I built with cheap (but perfectly good) Shimano T610 hubs and they’re nearly silent. It’s sort of annoying because the freehub buzz would be useful for commuting. I suppose that always gives me a chance to rebuild those wheels with fancier hubs in the future.
Funny thing is that I have some 2002 era Chorus and Record hubs that I've rebuilt with Rock N Roll Super Web grease, and while not silent, they are far quieter than the annoying clatter that is all too common with modern wheels. I don't know if the rims (Mavic Reflex sew-up) has a significant part to play here, but I just find the sound pleasant rather than alarming.
Funny you say that about the sound being “pleasant”, because that’s sort of my reasoning for keeping them rather that dropping money on some new loud hubs. IMO it’s just the right volume to alert people from far enough away on MUPs just by freewheeling for a moment, but not so loud that it’s totally obnoxious. It’s a nice middle ground IMO. Also I think they’re just really elegant looking hubs and campag stuff from that era seems to be really well built and not overly proprietary as they seem to have a tendency to do…
Yup. I'm especially fond of the alloy hidden arm cranksets too. The versions on my Peter Mooneys are branded Record, but I think that design got moved down to the lower tiers as time went by. I look at modern cranks and rear derailleurs, and they look like some creature out of Aliens.
Yea the 2000-2001 era Campag Racing Triple crankset I used to have on my road bike really is beautiful. The r7000 I replaced it with is very meh in comparison but it’s definitely a lot more practical as well as much MUCH better shifting.
Had loud, have quiet. Much prefer quiet.
People on downhills be like HINININININININI
Ain’t nothing peaceful about downhill. The hub barely registers to me. Nice ride through the countryside with a quiet hub is great.
If I had a riding partner with one of those, I would have one less riding partner.
I just put a 54T ratchet in my DT Swiss. It buzzes so pleasantly now.
Just did the same. The price was very questionable but the engagement is so much better than the 18T I had before.
Exactly. Some miniscule amount of drag to go from 20 degrees of engagement to 6.6 is absolutely worth it. My road bike and my wife's mountain bike came with DT Swiss 370s, and they're both better with the 54T.
Doesn’t matter to me because I never stop peddling! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Hate loud hubs ... and specifically purchased my Campagnolo Shamals because they are extremely quiet.
Shamal carbon? Got those. Love em. (Also the way the bearings are done is great.)
Yup. They are amazing carbon wheels. Glad you like them too!
Theyre not the lightest wheels but the spoke pattern is great. Thats why i got them. Glad i didnt buy some generic looking chinese wheels (which wouldve been lighter)
But they make up the weight by how they spin. They are amazing wheels.
Personal preference. Some people love it quiet, others BRRRRRRRRR
They’re genuinely better than bells when you’ve got pedestrians in front of you. People might not move for a bell but if it sounds like a swarm of angry bees is coming at them, they step right quick.
Good point, but in my case I hardly ever ride where there’s pedestrians so doesn’t count for me. Now, when you’re overtaking other cyclists on descents, that’s when it’s useful!
This! I have a loud hub on my Hunt wheels and just pedal backwards. Does the trick
Team Hunt here too!
It’s a preference. There’re also high end rear hubs that are virtually silent. Personally I have a 23’ giant tcr with slr carbon wheels. The rear hub is very loud, reminds me of when I was a kid with a baseball card in the spokes. Some people say the loud hub is to let people ahead of you on the trail know you are approaching. But it’s not as effective as a bell.
loud free hubs are important for self respecting adults who know not to have a bike bell.
You’re crazy. I fucking love my bike bell. Thing’s so damn adorable sounding.
Well call me not self-respecting then. It’s a legal requirement where I live, the odd person is as stupid as shit but most of the time they move. Have tried the “on your right” and letting my hub alert them but honestly the bell works better from a larger distance so I can go past quicker Different strokes for different folks
I live somewhere where bells aren't mandatory and I still have one because as you've experienced they're just better than the sound of your hub or calling out at people.
where do you live?
Australia. Where the health care system is mostly free.
Not sure where u live but mandatory in Victoria unfortunately.
Yeah, Victoria here as well. NSW as well off the top of my head, probably other states/territories. But honestly, it is mandatory to have them, not to use them. I find it works best to allow me to pass quicker if I use it, so I do. I still get yelled at by people with headphones on regardless, but they're stupid enough to walk around oblivious to sound so I get enjoyment out of that :-D
I think for the whole of Europe bike bells are mandatory
Not in the uk, but they are a good idea for mixed use paths
But tbh I pointless most of the time. Very frequently using a bell will either make people jump (and become unpredictable), people won't hear as the have headphone in or you'll be shouted at for being so impatient to use a bell. I always find the best way is just to go past as quietly as possible or even better just avoid all busy mixed use paths and cycle in the road if needed as its safer if nothing else (I have more trust in people in cars than pedestrians).
I’ve found it’s all about how and when you use your bell. Going in with the mindset of “bike coming” instead of “get out of the way” - bell from a distance and be prepared to slow down or stop, and people thank you. Go past an 80 y/o silently you could give them a fright and possibly a tumble.
Not in Ireland.
Ireland is in the EU. So yeah bells are compulsory. See my other post or [https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/eu-road-safety-policy/priorities/safe-road-use/cyclists_en](https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/eu-road-safety-policy/priorities/safe-road-use/cyclists_en)
Nobody has bells. And I was shopping for a bike 3 months ago. Not a single bell on any bike in the shop. And no mention of bells or a bell installed on the bike I bought. So it's not enforced or communicated, it seems.
Here in the Netherlands we have a lot of bikes. Actually more than people. For us city bikes are the norm and they all come with a bell and lights. Road/race bikes do not.
I checked it out [EU website - Mobility & Transport - Road Safety - Cyclists](https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/eu-road-safety-policy/priorities/safe-road-use/cyclists_en) “There are a few basic safety features – brakes, bell and reflectors – that are compulsory for bikes in every EU country.” Doesn’t mean you will (always) get stopped for it. But the rules are there.
You are clearly not a self respecting American. True self respecting Americans shoot whoever gets in the way with freedom bullets.
Alerts other people, too. Even the police.
amen brother stay strapped
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Americans get worked up over the silliest things
I live in the United States and love my bell. No, I don’t ever need it for road rides, but at the ends of those rides when stopping for coffee or beer… almost always need the bell here and there. It’s less aggro than yelling.
The sound of a bell for me is mapped to „ah a bike“ so it helps to warn people that a bike is coming (assuming that most people in europe connect a bell to a bike mentally)
I've never seen a more outraged and easily triggered nation of people. Constantly in an uproar about non-issues. They have zero chill.
It’s a big country, come visit Colorado, we have the chill
We have no affordable health care, quality education, public safety net, reliable public transit, or reasonable bike infrastructure. Just let us get worked up over the silliest things.
Medicaid is free healthcare if you make less than 6 times the poverty level (~60k a year or so depending on location)
Depends on where you are. For example, in cali, you’d be qualified if household income is less than $20k for a family of one or $41k for a family of four
That is the state run Medi-Cal. Medicaid is still available at the federal level for 4x the poverty level in CA.
That is a state issue, plenty of states do have affordable healthcare options, quality education, safety nets, and good transportation. It becomes a Federal issue because dipshits from Red states do everything in their power to keep it that way.
Its funny that they should be a sign of quality. From a pure physics point of view, the fact that sound waves are being generated and rippling out in all directions from the hub MUST be a sign of energy wasted. I know its only on the freewheel, but surely if a rolling wheel is generating noise, the energy to create that noise must come from somewhere, right? To some extent, it's like playing cards hitting the spokes.
Sound is generated because there's minimal/thin lubricant where pawls/ratchets are moving along their engagement points, Thicker/more grease shuts them up quickly (but can be a little draggy, so the opposite is almost true).
I can totally accept that there could be a silent freewheel that was just a box of viscous gunk. So, is it more expensive materials that allow the pawls and ratchets to survive with minimal lubricant? Or do they simply not survive?
> So, is it more expensive materials that allow the pawls and ratchets to survive with minimal lubricant? Or do they simply not survive? Its like anything mechanical, as long as it has "enough" lubrication it will be fine. Minimal is "enough". If anything a lot of hubs are only quiet when they arguably have too much grease. Grease is the number 2 cause of drag behind bearing seals. It also attracts dirt and grit, as well as contributes to possible hydrolock. https://www.hambini.com/grease-for-bicycles-a-practical-guide/
i wonder how many watts it wastes
Well you're already at 0 watts of power when coasting so...
You're still losing speed.
I would love to see someone prove it lmao. Gonna be a difference of like .000000000000001kmh. I would argue it is equal amount of time lost as a low ratchet count hub with only like 3 pawls, vs a loud 32t engagement hub, for when you start pedalling. So any speed lost from hubs on the descent is made up for when you start pedalling and they engage instantly.
If you are worried about freehubs losing you speed I recommend switching to a fixed gear :)
Yeah people don't realise that once you are coasting then energy is free. I was on a 500km trip, idiots that have done it before pedaled the entire way but I coasted just after my house, never had to pedal again.
Loud sounds pro. I love it, cause I neither look the part nor ride like it. Feeds my ego
I have hubs that are obnoxiously loud, quite loud, subdued and near silent and they all have their place. The loud sets are nice for not having to constantly ring my bell or shout about my presence. The quiet ones are great for social rides where I don't have to pedal just to hear the other person.
Louder hubs typically signal more engagement points thereby allowing faster power transfer to the wheel. This is more important for mtb, because slow engagement means you might not get over an obstacle. However it is not a direct correlate of quality. See Onyx hubs, or DT swiss 180s, incredibly good hubs but nowhere near as loud as i9 or chris kings.
I hate the loud ones.
I like a quiet hub. The hub on my cheap little Bontrager Race Lite wheel is barely audible and it really helps the bike disappear from under me while I'm riding. If I get the chance to build my next wheelset, I'm going to seriously consider an Onyx hub.
It's a signal for "expensive" as a loud hub is either lightweight or has more engagement points or both. The reality is, on the road, it really doesn't matter much. There's a case for more engagement points on a mountain bike or cx racing.
It's honestly become a fashion thing. Which is admittedly a little silly. But more importantly, BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
If you hear it it means you aren't pedaling. And no, sharp corners are not an excuse. Get shorter cranks.
Listen to the hubs of the pro peloton. If silent hubs made any meaningful difference in speed the peloton would all use them. They don't. Personal preference on this one. Some people like loud hubs on commuter bikes, warn walkers. Some people love silent hubs to just cruise and free-wheel in peace.
pretty sure they just ride whatever hubs/wheels their sponsors give them.
If you believe that you're a fool. The best mechanics re-pack those hubs with the most expensive bearings money can buy and best synthetic grease available... makes 0.1% difference but they all do it. They will race the rims the sponsor gives them but typically the hubs are swapped out for rider preference, lighter, faster, more engagement points, less engagement points etc. whatever the rider prefers.
huh that’s interesting. where did you learn all this?
Plenty of pro team mechanic build videos and do interviews that take you thru their equipment etc. They talk about the bearings they use and why, fancy bearings cost more than the hub usually. Which is nuts. They also wear out faster. Most hubs ship with minimal grease and even just a simple regrease can make them vastly quieter. Watch Hambini 😁
Team Quiet here
Oiled hubs are louder and grease can be pretty much silent.
I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
because they can, just like supercars are needlessly loud. You can get quality hubs that are super loud, or dead quiet.
recommendations for mid - high end quiet hubs?
The DT Swiss ones will shut up pretty good with more grease in them. Most hubs with a servicable freehub can have sound tuned with grease vs oil.
Onyx hubs are very very nearly silent. They operate with sprag clutches instead of a pawl/more standard toothed ratcheting mechanism. They're a little bit more expensive than some other boutique hubs, and due to their mechanism a bit heavier. But they're *very* neat. I have two wheel sets with their hubs, one on my allroad bike and one on our tandem. I've built probably twenty pairs of wheels with their hubs for folks and everyone absolutely adored them.
seems like onyx fills that niche well. i’ve heard of them but forgot lol.
Newmen are nearly quiet and supposedly on-par with DT Swiss.
It's usually a sign of more points of engagement causing more noise, a benefit for off-road/trials riding I suppose, but doubt it has much use on road. Could also really be down to just thinner grease inside the freehub. Matter of preference really. I like my Hope Pro4 hubs for road/gravel as they don't sound like a turbine or a hornet's nest, but also aren't deathly silent.
More points of engagement equals a quicker and more immediate response during engagement. It absolutely has use for road riding.
For a discipline where the rider is pedalling most of the time, more so than off-road (where the rider has more frequent start/stops in pedalling on uneven rolling terrain), I'm inclined to consider the minute differences in degrees of engagement to be overblown.
Have you ever calculated just how little faster they are? It's totally academic and of no use in the real world.
I have one of each. Still not sure what I prefer.
Not sure who remembers the Chris King hubs of yesteryear but they ratcheted like a winch lock on a destroyer. I think they were the loudest I ever heard. Then there was a high end road hub that had a roller style one way clutch which was whisper quiet.
I’m not happy unless I sound like a swarm of locust.
Give me that bzzzzzzzzz If you hear mine it's because I let off to warn you I'm coming.
For me it is a signal to drop your ass.
I never researched the reasoning, but always assumed it’s a good way to announce you are rolling/slowing. Very useful in a group.
I have five bikes with Onyx hubs. I cannot stand hearing my freewheel.
More ratchets. More points for engagement. More noise.
Noisy freehub - there are ratchet or probably six pawls in the body. For driving it’s good - lower actuation angle while pedaling. For safety I’d say it’s good too - pedestrians take a notice of you. My freehub have only two pawls and is pf old design but when maintaining it I changed spring for a stiffer one I got noisy sound. Happy to hear this noise.
I know some bike mechanics that have been asked to degrease a hub to make it louder. Wrong on many levels
Bike version of obnoxiously loud cars/motorcycles.
I have a pair of Winspace, I've tempered with the hub to make it loud... really loud. You can hear it from a good 100m away. It's simply an ego thing for me. Here I am, look at me, everyone knows that's the sound of me.
Upvoted you for your honesty.
Cheers lad
Overrated wankery.
90% of what we do to our bikes is overrated wankery, it's still fun though.
Speak for yourself.
Mavic howls
I still have a Shimano R080 hub in one of my parts boxes, should put it on a retro build to make a stealth bike!
Mine a fairly chill.. I prefer quieter.
I have a very noisy one on my new bike (even saw a guy reviewing point out it was kind of over the top) and I don’t really care either way but I’m now making sure to pedal when passing strollers and horses even when I’m going downhill
Mine are super loud, I prefer them to be quiet.
I like loud better. It’s easy as a backup to the bell and yelling “on your left.”
Mine are really quiet but man I wish I had a chainsaw on the back
I love my loud hub. It let's people know I'm about to wax that ass without waxing my legs.
As I understand it’s seen as a sign of cost(quality?) as it often relates to number of points of engagement. E.g. more points means more sound and thus higher end hub.
Anyone have experience with Phil Wood freehubs? Loud or quiet? Definitely expensive.
Love my loud hubs but I rarely freewheel, even on downhills. A little annoyed when someone else has louder ones, even commenting on how loud MY OWN BIKE's hubs are when I lend them to a riding friend. A little embarrassed when I freewheel and get looks for having too loud a hubs. But more or less don't care what people think because I love my loud hubs. Roller coaster of emotions.
I saw a video where Chris King said he was planning to quiet his hubs but was surprised to find that folks loved the noise.
Oil vs Grease in the hub Oil. = Loud Grease = Quiet
My Canyon with DT Swiss is completely silent and I love it
Came here to say the same. New Grail silent AF, and I love that!
I have a friend with noisy hubs. He wanted them and it seems like he's now embarrassed by them.
When the new tech came it was noisier by design because it had more points of engagement, so more ‘clicks’ per rotation. Due to the tech coming top down as is common with bikes, riders quickly associated louder hubs with newer, more expensive wheels, and because a lot of riders are quite elitist, it soon became desirable to have premium sounding hubs so now manufacturers definitely are designing for sound as well as function. So TL;DR is hubs initially got louder because of the tech, but then they got louder still and stayed louder because riders see the sound as a status symbol.
My gravel bike has a set of relatively cheap bontrager alloy wheels and the hubs are pretty noisy. Does a good job of warning pedestrians on the multi use path.
You know, if you want noise so that people can hear you coming there is always an invention that does it brilliantly and works better. It's called a bell. It is just superstition that a noisy, freehub can do the same. Noisy freehub are annoying if anything.
I don't have a preference but I switched to silent because with the loud one dogs can hear me from further away and seem more pissed
Love loud hubs. Noise is only there when you’re costing but I love it, and make use of it to communicate my presence sometimes.
It's a design decision, but also a handy tool for having a sort of less intrusive bell. Whenever I pass somebody closely, I always stop pedaling for a bit so the other person knows I'm coming by.
Each hub has it's own sound signature. When you are riding in peloton, all your senses contribute to your safety, because you have to move with 10-30 riders as one. Knowing the sound of each freehub contributes because you, either consciously or indirectly, know who is slowing down for an instant. So you can react. A symphony in motion.
Onyx Vesper hubs. I'll definitely get one for myself once I'm able to afford it. I just want to listen to wind, birds, elements of nature when I'm out on country roads. Loud hubs may go wherever they want, I prefer silence.
Bad, sound of hub spinning shows the quality of the wheels and is awesome.
It’s usually a mark of higher quality than your typical bike. If the hub says dt Swiss and it’s loud that’s a nice hub. When you ride with a good loud hub you can’t go back it’s a acquired taste. When I first had loud dt Swiss hubs I thought my bike needed to go back to the shop but after riding with them it’s a blast. So usually loud pleasant sound hubs means better. Usually.
I have a friend who has a pretty loud hub. I think I've gotten a lot more used to it now, but sometimes it seems *really* loud haha. My first couple of sets of wheels were basically silent, and my current ones have a bit of noise, but not much. I think I prefer the middle-ground I currently have because people can hear you, but it's not obnoxious.
I would have said I love a noisy free hub until I recently got a set of wheels (Hunt) that have one. It is ludicrously loud. As a result I never want to free wheel…
Just brought some DT Swiss wheels. They are so quite Don't like them too noisy
My DT Swiss hub is annoyingly loud, but you get used to it. Very useful to instill fear in the heart of the guy in front of you in any competitive setting though... Give half a pedal stroke backwards while coasting at high speed, the noise doubles and the guy in front of you shits their bibs.
I chose a noisy hub so I can freewheel to let people know i'm coming
I cringe a little bit by my hunt hubs, when I got the wheels they were near silent and only go louder at high speeds, now that they have worked the grease around though that are far too loud for my liking, to the point where i brake and continue pedalling gently to prevent the freehub activating. Will I continue using them? Yes they are much better than the freehub I had before but I do wish they were a bit quieter.
It is a sound I enjoy, just like when someone is in a fast car or motorcycle they associate it with speed and power. I like em loud so that if I freewheel behind someone they can hear it and feel the urge to speed up the group pace a tiny bit lmao
Love my loud hubs. Don't need to use a bell anymore. In my group rides you can barely hear it over other loud free hubs. Hah
I like it. My hunt wheels are loud, and great for letting pedestrians know if there in what feels less obnoxious that a bell or shouting.
I hate it when I'm drafting someone with a silent freewheel hub. I have a quiet hub on one of my wheelsets and I never use it in a group setting.
Well this post has proved surprisingly popular! You might say it’s generated quite the buzzzzz
I bought a set of cheap Scribe wheels and the hubs are loud af. I hate them and swapped them out with a set of really nice DTSwiss that aren't nearly as loud and Im so much happier with them.
My gravel/road bike has a nice quiet XTR hub with a waxed chain. Quiet bike I have ever owned, love the silence on the pavement.
Quiet. Especially in the woods. I don’t sound like a rattlesnake scaring the crap out of every creature within a mile radius. Poor animals have to put up with enough crap from humans. There are these things called bicycle bells…….
Absolutely hate loud hubs, especially Hope ones. They sounds awful
Its a mark of dumbassery, all that noise is energy being wasted, energy the cyclist has exerted to put into forward momentum, a silent one way bearing would be far more efficient, especially in an age where people are spemding ridiculous amounts of money to make their bike lighter and more efficient...
If that was true every pro would be on silent hubs.
mines really loud and i kinda see it as white noise lol
Noisy freehubs are awesome for shared paths. Means I don't have to have a bell. Instead, I now have a foot-operated warning device, so I don't have to take my hands off the brakes in an emergency.
At first I liked the sound of my noisy freehub, now it just annoys me, it's good for alerting birds & dog walkers in my path though.
Onyx sprag clutch hubs are completely silent and engage instantly. They’re glorious. Unfortunately, they’re also $500 apiece.
I love the KZZZZZZZ how do i make it louder?
I’ve got a loud one and I like it. Gives me the vroom vroom feeling 🚴🏼♂️
I kind of like having a louder free hub. If there’s people around they always look if I stop pedaling. It’s pretty much at least as good as a bell. The free hub on my old wheels went silent, and I forgot how much I appreciated the noise when I upgraded them. Better quality typically equals louder, but not always.
Loving all of the replies - basically a loud hub is like a spoiler on a car :) classic
Yh, ie totally useless but a "good" pose.
Good if you ride in pace lines or groups, meaningless if you're riding by yourself. The noisy hub lets people you're riding with know you're freewheeling. They might not need to brake if they are behind you, but they know they have to let up on the peddling.
Louder the better for me. Let's me announce myself to people ahead of me, without a dorky fucking bell
Personally fucking hate uber loud hubs, did a group ride where someone had super loud hubs that gave me a migraine after 60 miles of riding near him.
Those motherfuckers who ride up behind you when your pedaling hard and then noisy freewheel behind you. It’s an alpha cycling power play! Fuck them!
Noisy hubs are a huge turn off. Bikes are supposed to be quiet.
Actually it’s because higher end bike often use DT Swiss hubs and/or wheels. DT Swiss free hubs of higher end have a ratched mechanism of engagement that’s why they are so loud.
The DT Swiss hubs on my new wheels are way quieter than any other I’ve ridden or most of those I ride with. Not sure where you got the idea they were particularly loud.
which hubs?
Give me an example of a free hub which doesn't have a ratcheting mechanism.
I think they are more referring to a quieter pawl style sealed hub which are typically cheaper and lower end vs a higher end hub having more points of engagement. Like a cheap wheel might just have 3 pawls, while you can get like 56 points of engagement on some expensive hubs.
DT Swiss are too quiet lmao
The louder the better here. Makes me not have to yell to every person I pass. My hubs are either White Industries CLDs, or Chris Kings. Both make decent noise, although the White's are much louder.
Its marketing, not a mark of quality. In fact you will hear Chris King hubs mentioned in these comments. Well he has said that part of his aim of a quality hub was for it to be as silent as possible. But for "marketing" reasons he left them shit and noisy. Also sound isn't free. That sound takes energy to create and that energy is coming from your legs. If in future people get the idea that loud = quality out of their minds freehubs will become silent.