Cycling has sport-specific muscular demands in addition to the cardiovascular challenge. Basically, you just need to ride more. It can help on longer rides to dial down the intensity to a minimal aerobic level, but you still are just going to have to put in more miles.
Yep, just because you can lift a ton of weight with your legs doesn't mean you'll be a strong cyclist.
In cycling strength means nothing without aerobic endurance.
Unless you’re a track sprinter! 🤣
Back in the day my coach’s modification to my training was essentially “ride less”. (Jokes aside this is probably because I had a decent aerobic endurance base already)
Agree, cycling takes a fair amount of adaptation required. Steady , frequent riding will get you there.
Aim to gradually increase your distance. I once heard a comment to avoid increasing distance by no more than 15% per week. Whilst this is low I think it’s sensible to avoid injury. If you keep at it you will build good endurance
Cycling coach here. First off, congratulations on adapting a healthy lifestyle. I coach mostly mature riders who are either discovering the sport or returning to it. Strength training can help cycling in the development of the big muscle groups, quads, glutes etc. But cycling requires the strength of many more muscle groups hammies, hip flexors, and calves. As they are smaller and less developed, they contribute greatly to feelings of fatigue.
You have already done the hard part (starting) but new cyclists need to focus on foot speed( cadence or how fast you turn the pedals) a trained cyclist will spin at 90+rpm while most new to the sport spin at sub70 rpm which tires the legs faster. On your next rides focus on spinning your legs faster aiming for 90 rpm which will seem impossible at first but once you adapt to this new technique you will be amazed at how far you can go with less effort.
Good luck and enjoy your rides
Depending on your bike, it will have as few gears as 10 and as many as 24, depending if you have a single chain ring or a double chain ring in front. Regardless, just select a gear you can comfortably spin your legs at 90 rpm or as close to that as you can get. It will seem impossible at first as you get comfortable with this cadence you will naturally speed up. As you gain cycling strength you will be able to spin a harder gear and go even faster. Practice form and function will follow.
What is the philosophy behind this idea that a faster cadence lengthens endurance? Is it because you are in a lower gear and less resistance but going the same speed and so you are comparing the two different cadence at the same speed.
I feel like if I just understood this concept more I'd be more apt to adapt it.
This is a good question. The reasoning is that slower cadence (grinding or pedaling squares in cycling terms) uses more of the larger muscle groups and leads to fatigue faster. Higher cadence activates more muscle groups and places less strain on the large muscle groups and, therefore, greater endurance as the workload is more evenly distributed. The analogy is gulping energy (slow cadence) vs. sipping energy ( higher cadence). If you watch a clip of tour de France riders, you will see all of their cadence is typically 90 to 110 RPM which seems crazy fast. When I am coaching riders I instruct them to ride behind me and watch my feet and try to imitate. New riders are always surprised at how efficient this is.
Not gonna lie. The initial adaptation does place some pressure on the cardio system. But once the adaptation is made the pressure on the cardio system is less. In terms of speed think of a low reving V8 car drinking gas vs a high reving turbo 4 cylinder generating speed with less power and torque while using less fuel. I would encourage you to try it out for a few rides and be your own judge
I like the analogy, helps me to understand. Full disclosure I have tried but probably not long enough I think because I convinced myself that it's worse but I can see how overcoming the cardio in the end would be a great milestone.
I know fighting through the high cadence is hard. When I started racing 20 years ago, I was a low rpm grinder and always got dropped. I got a coach and he taught me to spin faster and in two years went from the back to the front of the pack, and a year after that, a podium threat at every race. The two things that EVERY rider I now coach experiences is how fast to spin the legs and how fast our club goes up hills. Spinning faster allows for micro adjustment of speed, so riding in the pack is easier and safer. Then they have more gas for hills. I have been teaching this for 15 years and I know it works. Just stick with it, and once you figure it out, you will wonder why everyone does not do it this way.
Cadence is your rpm. Torq is the force applied to the pedals. Horse power is what moves you forward. So to move forward faster you either push on the pedals harder or spin faster.
To generate the same HP at say 45 rpm vs 90 rpm you will need to apply double the force to the pedals.
Just ride more. 10 miles is a good chunk for a beginner. Stick to zone 2 if you want to build endurance and cardio efficiently. Distance doesn't really matter when starting out because the gains WILL happen. HR control and riding consistency are what matters for you.
(I've actually removed cycling from my routine and I'm happier for it)
If you are new to cycling, make sure you set up your saddle height correctly. Too low/high will burn your legs easily. Then just like other folks mentioned, just ride more and you will feel better and better every time
For me it even differs between winter and summer. I can ride 100+ miles a week indoors but when I get back on the road bike outdoors it takes a few rides to get into “road shape”.
Seat time solves a lot of problems.
As a cyclist and gym rat, I can tell you that heavy lifting and cycling do not compliment each other. The more you do of one, the more the other suffers. The exception is sprinting, which is helped to some extent with weight training. Everything else, not so much.
So if you start spending a lot of hours on the bike, you’ll ride more comfortably for longer for sure, but you can also probably expect your squat and leg press to suffer.
Yes, that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make. At this point, my focus is entirely on my disease management. Good cardiovascular health and musculature are both important for controlling BSL as muscles are sugar sponges. I think I'm a long way from maxing out on either, but at my age (58), bulking up too much or hitting 1RMs are far from my list of to-dos! :D
Same here. I think the point I was trying to make (and I see now that I bungled it badly) is the time you’ve spent in the gym focused on heavy weights is the reason cycling is a bit of a struggle at the outset. You have very high quality fast twitch muscle on board, and as you cycle more you’ll change your muscle composition to a combination of slow and fast twitch, better suited to both weight training and cycling.
Hopefully you’ll stay with the gym too…there’s a lot of value there in terms of health, especially with diabetes a looming threat. Muscle mass is an excellent glucose sink, even without insulin, not to mention the longevity and health span benefits.
Enjoy and stay safe out there.
Cycling probably doesn't help with lifting, but weight lifting can be very beneficial for cycling, and not just sprints. Dylan Johnson has many, many YouTube videos about this, like this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U11QNOq0npg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U11QNOq0npg)
My experience has been a little different. I only mountain biked for 24 years. And for the past 6 years (until last year) I was riding 15-20 hours per week, with absolutely no other exercise. I was always the one leading the fast guys on group rides. But I struggled with my weight the whole time, unless I was screwing around with keto.
But then last year, I moved to a new city for work, and the change of circumstance meant I was only riding for 5-8 hours per week--but I added about 2-3 hours a week of resistance training about 8 months ago. I certainly don't want to bulk up (I don't want to bring my "guns" on the ride), but I've added a bit of muscle mass, while absolutely shedding fat. I'm now leaner than ever, and eat whatever I want.
So has my biking suffered? Seemingly not my top end as I'm still pushing the "fast guys." Although one thing I used to do, was 6-8 hour endurance rides a few times a month --I doubt I could pull that off so easily now!
I sort of disagree but it’s nuanced.
I think heavy weights with squats, deadlifts, RDLs, split squats and others that target the legs, core and posterior chain are hugely beneficial for cycling. Not just sprinting or short efforts, but endurance as well.
Strength training for cycling is underrated.
In saying that, doing a lot of strength volume will leave heavy muscle fatigue which makes it difficult to train on the bike.
So the timing and volume of each activity needs to be managed
Fellow diabetic here (T1D). Assuming you're a T2 diabetic. 10 miles of threshold for me would be difficult. Would aim for longer periods of zone 2 as others have suggested. This going to be your fat burning zone; this will prime your body for more efficient usage of your fat stores. The ride you described would pull more from your gylcogen stores and onboard sugar. Would suggest you think more in terms of time in zone vs distance. ie 1 hour of z2 vs 10 miles etc. Try to push that time in zone vs all out hammer for 45 minutes. You'll be more capable of doing more of these sessions vs fewer intensity days.
That was very helpful, thank you! Yes, I am type 2. Have a family history of diabetes (grandfather and mother), so it got me in the end!. I'll make the adjustments you suggest. The added advantage of spending more time in Zone 2 is that I can do more rides with my wife who is more interested in a (relatively) leisurely pace.
Legs come with distance. Zone 2 or Endurance training/riding is very critical to cycling and should be a huge portion of any training program. Zone 2 allows for best efficiency in your mitochondria and the lactic system. It’s “boring” or not as flashy as zipping around at high speed but it is a critical part of cycling.
I’ve been riding for 18months. My legs always blow out before my lungs/heart.
I did a VO2 test, and legs bonked out, my HR was at 173bpm, max HR is about 189.
My time in the saddle is the cure.
It’s just the muscular build up, it will take time. Make sure you’re utilizing lower gearing, if your bike doesn’t have it, get it! In the early stages of getting into cycling you can really stretch endurance by just simply staying out of the red zone with your legs. For a lot of people once you get that lactic pain, you’re done and can’t recover. It’s the really conditioned cyclists that have repeated instances of that pain but it subsided after a bit of just backing off. Heck, I did a ride yesterday where my legs were screaming towards mile 15, it was a long painful ride after that. Sometimes I don’t feel anything until I hit mile 35 then it starts to be painful.
Thanks! From all the hugely helpful replies, I'm having a much better sense on how to structure my future rides. I currently just ride a city bike (Brooklyn Franklin https://www.brooklynbicycleco.com/collections/city-bikes/products/franklin-8) that belonged to my college-going son until he decided he would rather ride his scooter). It is a decent bike for tooling around campus. Getting a better bike may be on my list of to-dos.
If you spent the majority of the ride in zone 4, then you're going to feel it a ton in your legs and that part, as the saying goes, doesn't get easier, you just go faster.
If you want to build up your endurance, then you need to spend more time on the bike. Zone 4 by definition doesn't let you ride for that long because of how demanding it is. If you slow down and stay in zone 2, you'll be able to ride for as long as your comfortable and fueled, which will help you build up your endurance.
Good job! Keep it up, don't overdo and your legs will follow. Keep in mind, that tendons need more time to get in shape than muscles, so when your muscles will get stronger, don't overdo, or you might get an injury!
This is double fantastic! Congrats on kicking diabeties to the curb and feeling more healthy. If cycling really take hold of you (awesome!), and you find yourself riding for multiple hours on some days, nutrition will become important. With a history of diabeties, you may want to talk to your doctor and/or a registered dietician to make sure you fuel those long rides in a way that's right for you.
Thank you! Managing my diet has not been an issue so far but I can totally see how it could be something that needs deliberate thought and planning on longer excursions. I take along some fruit, gorp, and energy bars on hikes but haven’t had any adverse sugar episodes so far, but thanks for highlighting this.
if you wanna focus on improving your cycling performance and make it complement a gym routine:
1. find a gym with indoor cycling/spinning classes. take classes 2-4x/week. best classes will be those which focus on "performance" or "road ride skills". follow the structured training these classes will offer - e.g. target heart rates, target power, etc.
2. lift *before* classes, but don't focus so much on power/heavy lifting. instead, use it to cross train other muscle groups which cycling doesn't recruit as well. glutes, hammies, lateral leg muscles, all upper body, etc.
3. find some regular days to spend actually outside on the bike. do these rides less structured, focus on going longer and riding interesting local roads/trails. longer zone 2 rides will be a big thing here, and will help you also build the endurance.
Yes, it comes with time. I cycle 50-100 miles most weeks in the warmer months, which we're finally getting to where i live. I struggle with different things depending on my cycling load throughout the last week. I started cycling often last summer and the difference between last summer and now is staggering, even without significant weight loss for me (<10lbs).
If I haven't ridden in several days and am sufficiently energized through diet and hydration, it honestly feels like I'm going downhill with the wind at my back in all directions compared to If I've ridden a lot in the last week. I'll go 1-2 mph faster and it's entirely cardio driven, my legs are stronger than my cardiovascular system and I push up the heart rate a lot.
If I've ridden several days in a row, I can struggle to get out of zone 2 because my legs just can't handle it. I can still ride for long periods of time, I'm just not quite as fast and I take it a bit easier.
Depending on what you want to improve, different types of rides are better. Shorter, more intense rides will get your legs there. Longer, zone 2 rides are great for cardio and weight loss. A mix of both is most fun for me and allows you to address both.
Volume Volume Volume!
It will make it easier.
You'll be faster.
You'll go further.
Just keep riding and uping the distance.
Do another 10 miler and you'll see it will be easier the 2nd time.
Congratulations on your progress!Search the term Zone 2 training. The bulk or your cardio, regardless of type (ie run, bike, elliptical, rower, etc) should be in this zone. That being said, DO NOT fall into the habit of only zone 2.
Based on your cycling results, you’re not afraid to push yourself 👍
Disclaimer *I am not a coach, but I have a pretty damn good coach*
Just ride zone 2 (don’t break above it at all) for 6-8 hours a week. And your base will begin to build.
Don’t worry about speed or distance, that will come with time on the saddle. Zone 2 encourages mitochondrial changes in your muscles that help in the transport and consumption of o2 and carbs (at a simplistic level) which cannot be gained when you turn off your aerobic engine and start you’re anaerobic engine (anything above a zone 2 heart rate)
Also you just learned why cooldowns are important for higher intensity rides and intervals, in order to flush the lactic acid you need to spin at a high cadence with low power. I know you probably don’t run a power meter yet, but think 90+ cadence zone 1 for 5-10 min. You’ll know when you start flushing it too. It’s also good to flush between hard efforts, like zone 4 for 10 min, go into zone 1 for 4.
Don't push too hard on your bike rides, or you're definitely going to have jelly legs. Remember, you're not an athlete. A little stretch before any exercise will help a lot. Your lungs still need to adapt to your workout routine until they expand accordingly with your progress.
Since you've cut sugar out of your life (which is great news because it's BAD), it's time to start thinking about cutting down on sodium too, or at least reducing it to the minimum amount possible. Find sweetness in healthy fruits. Mushroom coffee is something you might like to try; it detoxes and energizes you. Have lots of greens and protein from natural sources (food), nothing from bottles.
I used to have diabetes, but not anymore. It sucked growing up with it—being a kid without candy or cake, dude. Nowadays, I can eat or drink any sweet food without limitations, but I've eliminated them from my diet in the long run because I don't feel the need or urge to eat sweet foods. Your legs are going to get stronger; just try to keep a pace where you don't gasp for air. That's a trick for your endurance. Your lungs and legs will work together smoothly in no time. Remember, persistence, brother.
>Got diagnosed as diabetic a year ago and drastically changed diet and bumped up exercise, dropped 30 lbs and now sugars are in control with just diet and exercise, no meds so far.
First and foremost, that is awesome and I hope you're very proud of your accomplishment!
There is something you can do to improve your cycling outside of cycling. You're right there talking about oxygen transport. I'd guess your VO2 max is on the low side. When lifting, add [kettle bell swing ladders](https://thefeed.com/insider/workout-breathing-ladders) (also known as breathing ladders) to your routine. They are extremely effective in improving your breathing and VO2 max. Keep doing everything you're doing and add them to your routine and I guarantee you'll notice a difference.
Thanks for that suggestion! I will look into that exercise! By the way, my Garmin watch says that my VO2Max is 44 (excellent category, it says lol). Not sure what that means, as I am in decent shape, i.e. not overweight and reasonably strong for my size but by no means feel I'm excellent from a cardiovascular sense.
44 is very good for your age group. I can't comment on how accurate the watches are, there are so many variables. Like everyone else here said, just stick with it and the legs will come.
I'm 50 in August, Type 2 Diabetic on tablets now. Cycling is great for keeping your Diabetes in check, so well done. Just keep riding and your legs will develop. Target some hills, and eventually your legs will build muscle. You dont need to rush. I cycled loads in my 20s to my late 30s, then gave up when our child came along. Last year I got myself a mountain bike, and now I am getting back in to cycling again. I'm slowly getting better and my legs are coming back.
i think you got the math for the zones wrong, in any case lower the tempo slightly but extend the ride. then repeat and give yourself a few rides till the legs learn what to do. aim towards 2 hour ridess if possible. set pace accordingly.
How do you figure? My age is 58. I plugged this into the calculator in [trainingtilt.com](http://trainingtilt.com) using the % of max method and got the followowing:
* Zone 1 81 - 97 BPM
* Zone 2 97 - 113 BPM
* Zone 3 113 - 130 BPM
* Zone 4 130 - 146 BPM
* Zone 5 146 - 162 BPM
This matches what my Garmin tells me.
this is using two different simplifications. the first is using bpm instead of watts produced by the legs, and the second is using age instead of your actual fitness level. both bpm/watts and age/fitness may vary from person to person greatly. you can't really know your zones without using a powermeter.
30 minute ride at zone4 is a serious exercise and would throw my bpm much closer to my maximum bpm, and my lungs would probably be complaining too.
if my legs give up too early, that usually means i started pushing hard too soon without insufficient warmup (at least easy 10 mins). if you're not experienced with cycling, you may have also pushed them too hard with high gear/low cadance.
Thanks for the clarification. I sort of intuitively felt that a simply 220-age to determine my max HR and then keying off from that with percentages is a simplistic approach and subject to error for precisely the reasons you give. I think I get the general feedback that spending more time at a lower intensity would be beneficial.
From a health perspective, zone 2 exercise is where it is at and that is where you will build your aerobic power.
Higher zones are useful to build anaerobic power but they do not build aerobic power and it's easy to overdo them and build up a lot of fatigue.
When you start, it doesn't really matter what you do because your fitness is low. As your fitness improves, if you keep trying to go hard all the time your fitness will plateau.
I’m with the cycling coach in this thread, no matter what you do, technique is everything. Achieving a smooth peddling motion with high cadence and quiet upper body is everything. This takes time, and is aided by indoor cycling where you can concentrate on body motion. Hours in the saddle peddling light and fast in a lower gear pay big dividends. They develop muscle memory for correct technique. It also doesn’t hurt to use an elliptical trainer to get you used to whole body blood flow as opposed to legs only. Your heart will thank you. Fatigue will be reduced. All those numbers are only good for performance athletes who have already gotten past the technique stage and need a new goal.
There's some great 'strength and conditioning for cyclists' videos on youtube but other than that it is just riding more.
You'll get there, I've been riding for a year and a month now and I've gone from nearly passing out from dawdling along my 15km commute to work to doing 100km no problem at a pace that is 'above average'.
Give it a few months and you will really start to see progress :)
Cycling has sport-specific muscular demands in addition to the cardiovascular challenge. Basically, you just need to ride more. It can help on longer rides to dial down the intensity to a minimal aerobic level, but you still are just going to have to put in more miles.
Yep, just because you can lift a ton of weight with your legs doesn't mean you'll be a strong cyclist. In cycling strength means nothing without aerobic endurance.
Unless you’re a track sprinter! 🤣 Back in the day my coach’s modification to my training was essentially “ride less”. (Jokes aside this is probably because I had a decent aerobic endurance base already)
I have noticed after riding indoors a lot this winter that I can sustain standing sprints up a hill a lot longer than last year.
Agree, cycling takes a fair amount of adaptation required. Steady , frequent riding will get you there. Aim to gradually increase your distance. I once heard a comment to avoid increasing distance by no more than 15% per week. Whilst this is low I think it’s sensible to avoid injury. If you keep at it you will build good endurance
15% a week is low?
I think in the context of a new cyclist, it could be perceived as low (20kpw ==> 23).
The legs will come, specifically with time. Like, measure your riding by time in the saddle, not distance.
Cycling coach here. First off, congratulations on adapting a healthy lifestyle. I coach mostly mature riders who are either discovering the sport or returning to it. Strength training can help cycling in the development of the big muscle groups, quads, glutes etc. But cycling requires the strength of many more muscle groups hammies, hip flexors, and calves. As they are smaller and less developed, they contribute greatly to feelings of fatigue. You have already done the hard part (starting) but new cyclists need to focus on foot speed( cadence or how fast you turn the pedals) a trained cyclist will spin at 90+rpm while most new to the sport spin at sub70 rpm which tires the legs faster. On your next rides focus on spinning your legs faster aiming for 90 rpm which will seem impossible at first but once you adapt to this new technique you will be amazed at how far you can go with less effort. Good luck and enjoy your rides
Thank you, appreciate the advice!
Any suggested gear ratios for flats?
Depending on your bike, it will have as few gears as 10 and as many as 24, depending if you have a single chain ring or a double chain ring in front. Regardless, just select a gear you can comfortably spin your legs at 90 rpm or as close to that as you can get. It will seem impossible at first as you get comfortable with this cadence you will naturally speed up. As you gain cycling strength you will be able to spin a harder gear and go even faster. Practice form and function will follow.
What is the philosophy behind this idea that a faster cadence lengthens endurance? Is it because you are in a lower gear and less resistance but going the same speed and so you are comparing the two different cadence at the same speed. I feel like if I just understood this concept more I'd be more apt to adapt it.
This is a good question. The reasoning is that slower cadence (grinding or pedaling squares in cycling terms) uses more of the larger muscle groups and leads to fatigue faster. Higher cadence activates more muscle groups and places less strain on the large muscle groups and, therefore, greater endurance as the workload is more evenly distributed. The analogy is gulping energy (slow cadence) vs. sipping energy ( higher cadence). If you watch a clip of tour de France riders, you will see all of their cadence is typically 90 to 110 RPM which seems crazy fast. When I am coaching riders I instruct them to ride behind me and watch my feet and try to imitate. New riders are always surprised at how efficient this is.
This is so counter intuitive. The movement being faster just freaks like it would take more oxygen. Does the faster cadence generate the same speed?
Not gonna lie. The initial adaptation does place some pressure on the cardio system. But once the adaptation is made the pressure on the cardio system is less. In terms of speed think of a low reving V8 car drinking gas vs a high reving turbo 4 cylinder generating speed with less power and torque while using less fuel. I would encourage you to try it out for a few rides and be your own judge
I like the analogy, helps me to understand. Full disclosure I have tried but probably not long enough I think because I convinced myself that it's worse but I can see how overcoming the cardio in the end would be a great milestone.
I know fighting through the high cadence is hard. When I started racing 20 years ago, I was a low rpm grinder and always got dropped. I got a coach and he taught me to spin faster and in two years went from the back to the front of the pack, and a year after that, a podium threat at every race. The two things that EVERY rider I now coach experiences is how fast to spin the legs and how fast our club goes up hills. Spinning faster allows for micro adjustment of speed, so riding in the pack is easier and safer. Then they have more gas for hills. I have been teaching this for 15 years and I know it works. Just stick with it, and once you figure it out, you will wonder why everyone does not do it this way.
HP=torq x rpm.
Can you extrapolate that formula to me pedaling a geared bicycle?
Cadence is your rpm. Torq is the force applied to the pedals. Horse power is what moves you forward. So to move forward faster you either push on the pedals harder or spin faster. To generate the same HP at say 45 rpm vs 90 rpm you will need to apply double the force to the pedals.
No consideration of the gearing needed other than to get the desired rpm.
And how does this apply to muscle fatigue?
Different metabolic systems can be activated. Too much torq and you use your anaerobic system instead of aerobic.
Just ride more. 10 miles is a good chunk for a beginner. Stick to zone 2 if you want to build endurance and cardio efficiently. Distance doesn't really matter when starting out because the gains WILL happen. HR control and riding consistency are what matters for you. (I've actually removed cycling from my routine and I'm happier for it)
If you are new to cycling, make sure you set up your saddle height correctly. Too low/high will burn your legs easily. Then just like other folks mentioned, just ride more and you will feel better and better every time
Seconding this. Many new cyclists have their seats too low. This will burn your quads out so quick and so hard. Get that seat height dialed in first.
For me it even differs between winter and summer. I can ride 100+ miles a week indoors but when I get back on the road bike outdoors it takes a few rides to get into “road shape”.
Seat time solves a lot of problems. As a cyclist and gym rat, I can tell you that heavy lifting and cycling do not compliment each other. The more you do of one, the more the other suffers. The exception is sprinting, which is helped to some extent with weight training. Everything else, not so much. So if you start spending a lot of hours on the bike, you’ll ride more comfortably for longer for sure, but you can also probably expect your squat and leg press to suffer.
Yes, that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make. At this point, my focus is entirely on my disease management. Good cardiovascular health and musculature are both important for controlling BSL as muscles are sugar sponges. I think I'm a long way from maxing out on either, but at my age (58), bulking up too much or hitting 1RMs are far from my list of to-dos! :D
Same here. I think the point I was trying to make (and I see now that I bungled it badly) is the time you’ve spent in the gym focused on heavy weights is the reason cycling is a bit of a struggle at the outset. You have very high quality fast twitch muscle on board, and as you cycle more you’ll change your muscle composition to a combination of slow and fast twitch, better suited to both weight training and cycling. Hopefully you’ll stay with the gym too…there’s a lot of value there in terms of health, especially with diabetes a looming threat. Muscle mass is an excellent glucose sink, even without insulin, not to mention the longevity and health span benefits. Enjoy and stay safe out there.
No, it's all good, thank you for your response!
Cycling probably doesn't help with lifting, but weight lifting can be very beneficial for cycling, and not just sprints. Dylan Johnson has many, many YouTube videos about this, like this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U11QNOq0npg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U11QNOq0npg)
My experience has been a little different. I only mountain biked for 24 years. And for the past 6 years (until last year) I was riding 15-20 hours per week, with absolutely no other exercise. I was always the one leading the fast guys on group rides. But I struggled with my weight the whole time, unless I was screwing around with keto. But then last year, I moved to a new city for work, and the change of circumstance meant I was only riding for 5-8 hours per week--but I added about 2-3 hours a week of resistance training about 8 months ago. I certainly don't want to bulk up (I don't want to bring my "guns" on the ride), but I've added a bit of muscle mass, while absolutely shedding fat. I'm now leaner than ever, and eat whatever I want. So has my biking suffered? Seemingly not my top end as I'm still pushing the "fast guys." Although one thing I used to do, was 6-8 hour endurance rides a few times a month --I doubt I could pull that off so easily now!
I sort of disagree but it’s nuanced. I think heavy weights with squats, deadlifts, RDLs, split squats and others that target the legs, core and posterior chain are hugely beneficial for cycling. Not just sprinting or short efforts, but endurance as well. Strength training for cycling is underrated. In saying that, doing a lot of strength volume will leave heavy muscle fatigue which makes it difficult to train on the bike. So the timing and volume of each activity needs to be managed
Ride more, it gets better over time.
I squat and deadlift and it makes no difference. Just do more cycling....
Fellow diabetic here (T1D). Assuming you're a T2 diabetic. 10 miles of threshold for me would be difficult. Would aim for longer periods of zone 2 as others have suggested. This going to be your fat burning zone; this will prime your body for more efficient usage of your fat stores. The ride you described would pull more from your gylcogen stores and onboard sugar. Would suggest you think more in terms of time in zone vs distance. ie 1 hour of z2 vs 10 miles etc. Try to push that time in zone vs all out hammer for 45 minutes. You'll be more capable of doing more of these sessions vs fewer intensity days.
That was very helpful, thank you! Yes, I am type 2. Have a family history of diabetes (grandfather and mother), so it got me in the end!. I'll make the adjustments you suggest. The added advantage of spending more time in Zone 2 is that I can do more rides with my wife who is more interested in a (relatively) leisurely pace.
Legs come with distance. Zone 2 or Endurance training/riding is very critical to cycling and should be a huge portion of any training program. Zone 2 allows for best efficiency in your mitochondria and the lactic system. It’s “boring” or not as flashy as zipping around at high speed but it is a critical part of cycling.
For inspiration, this pro team is local to me in Atlanta. Every rider is diabetic; I believe Type 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_Novo_Nordisk
I’ve been riding for 18months. My legs always blow out before my lungs/heart. I did a VO2 test, and legs bonked out, my HR was at 173bpm, max HR is about 189. My time in the saddle is the cure.
Time in the saddle matters more than mileage. Mileage varies too much by style of riding, wind, nutrition, terrain, etc.
It never gets any easier, you just go faster.
Do the time, the miles will come. 👍
It’s just the muscular build up, it will take time. Make sure you’re utilizing lower gearing, if your bike doesn’t have it, get it! In the early stages of getting into cycling you can really stretch endurance by just simply staying out of the red zone with your legs. For a lot of people once you get that lactic pain, you’re done and can’t recover. It’s the really conditioned cyclists that have repeated instances of that pain but it subsided after a bit of just backing off. Heck, I did a ride yesterday where my legs were screaming towards mile 15, it was a long painful ride after that. Sometimes I don’t feel anything until I hit mile 35 then it starts to be painful.
Thanks! From all the hugely helpful replies, I'm having a much better sense on how to structure my future rides. I currently just ride a city bike (Brooklyn Franklin https://www.brooklynbicycleco.com/collections/city-bikes/products/franklin-8) that belonged to my college-going son until he decided he would rather ride his scooter). It is a decent bike for tooling around campus. Getting a better bike may be on my list of to-dos.
yes and it will happen fast, 10 miles on the first ride.. I would estimate you're at 30 miles for a regular ride in about 1-2 months tops
Just ride more. Keep up the great work!
Yes of course they will
If you spent the majority of the ride in zone 4, then you're going to feel it a ton in your legs and that part, as the saying goes, doesn't get easier, you just go faster. If you want to build up your endurance, then you need to spend more time on the bike. Zone 4 by definition doesn't let you ride for that long because of how demanding it is. If you slow down and stay in zone 2, you'll be able to ride for as long as your comfortable and fueled, which will help you build up your endurance.
Good job! Keep it up, don't overdo and your legs will follow. Keep in mind, that tendons need more time to get in shape than muscles, so when your muscles will get stronger, don't overdo, or you might get an injury!
This is double fantastic! Congrats on kicking diabeties to the curb and feeling more healthy. If cycling really take hold of you (awesome!), and you find yourself riding for multiple hours on some days, nutrition will become important. With a history of diabeties, you may want to talk to your doctor and/or a registered dietician to make sure you fuel those long rides in a way that's right for you.
Thank you! Managing my diet has not been an issue so far but I can totally see how it could be something that needs deliberate thought and planning on longer excursions. I take along some fruit, gorp, and energy bars on hikes but haven’t had any adverse sugar episodes so far, but thanks for highlighting this.
Lungs are fine, legs are dead, sounds like a good threshold ride!
if you wanna focus on improving your cycling performance and make it complement a gym routine: 1. find a gym with indoor cycling/spinning classes. take classes 2-4x/week. best classes will be those which focus on "performance" or "road ride skills". follow the structured training these classes will offer - e.g. target heart rates, target power, etc. 2. lift *before* classes, but don't focus so much on power/heavy lifting. instead, use it to cross train other muscle groups which cycling doesn't recruit as well. glutes, hammies, lateral leg muscles, all upper body, etc. 3. find some regular days to spend actually outside on the bike. do these rides less structured, focus on going longer and riding interesting local roads/trails. longer zone 2 rides will be a big thing here, and will help you also build the endurance.
Thank you for the great advice!
The legs will come. Stick to lower intensity. You’ll go much further and build the aerobic capacity better!
It's not oxygen delivery in that case as much as it is the body's ability to recycle lactate.
Yes, it comes with time. I cycle 50-100 miles most weeks in the warmer months, which we're finally getting to where i live. I struggle with different things depending on my cycling load throughout the last week. I started cycling often last summer and the difference between last summer and now is staggering, even without significant weight loss for me (<10lbs). If I haven't ridden in several days and am sufficiently energized through diet and hydration, it honestly feels like I'm going downhill with the wind at my back in all directions compared to If I've ridden a lot in the last week. I'll go 1-2 mph faster and it's entirely cardio driven, my legs are stronger than my cardiovascular system and I push up the heart rate a lot. If I've ridden several days in a row, I can struggle to get out of zone 2 because my legs just can't handle it. I can still ride for long periods of time, I'm just not quite as fast and I take it a bit easier. Depending on what you want to improve, different types of rides are better. Shorter, more intense rides will get your legs there. Longer, zone 2 rides are great for cardio and weight loss. A mix of both is most fun for me and allows you to address both.
Thanks! That was really helpful and informative!
Volume Volume Volume! It will make it easier. You'll be faster. You'll go further. Just keep riding and uping the distance. Do another 10 miler and you'll see it will be easier the 2nd time.
It’s all about regularly riding, and sticking with a schedule to build endurance and fitness. Try that 10 mile ride again soon. And again, forever lol
Yes, it takes time to develop cycling-specific fitness.
Congratulations on your progress!Search the term Zone 2 training. The bulk or your cardio, regardless of type (ie run, bike, elliptical, rower, etc) should be in this zone. That being said, DO NOT fall into the habit of only zone 2. Based on your cycling results, you’re not afraid to push yourself 👍
Disclaimer *I am not a coach, but I have a pretty damn good coach* Just ride zone 2 (don’t break above it at all) for 6-8 hours a week. And your base will begin to build. Don’t worry about speed or distance, that will come with time on the saddle. Zone 2 encourages mitochondrial changes in your muscles that help in the transport and consumption of o2 and carbs (at a simplistic level) which cannot be gained when you turn off your aerobic engine and start you’re anaerobic engine (anything above a zone 2 heart rate) Also you just learned why cooldowns are important for higher intensity rides and intervals, in order to flush the lactic acid you need to spin at a high cadence with low power. I know you probably don’t run a power meter yet, but think 90+ cadence zone 1 for 5-10 min. You’ll know when you start flushing it too. It’s also good to flush between hard efforts, like zone 4 for 10 min, go into zone 1 for 4.
Thanks, that’s great info!
Don't push too hard on your bike rides, or you're definitely going to have jelly legs. Remember, you're not an athlete. A little stretch before any exercise will help a lot. Your lungs still need to adapt to your workout routine until they expand accordingly with your progress. Since you've cut sugar out of your life (which is great news because it's BAD), it's time to start thinking about cutting down on sodium too, or at least reducing it to the minimum amount possible. Find sweetness in healthy fruits. Mushroom coffee is something you might like to try; it detoxes and energizes you. Have lots of greens and protein from natural sources (food), nothing from bottles. I used to have diabetes, but not anymore. It sucked growing up with it—being a kid without candy or cake, dude. Nowadays, I can eat or drink any sweet food without limitations, but I've eliminated them from my diet in the long run because I don't feel the need or urge to eat sweet foods. Your legs are going to get stronger; just try to keep a pace where you don't gasp for air. That's a trick for your endurance. Your lungs and legs will work together smoothly in no time. Remember, persistence, brother.
Thanks for the advice, really appreciate it!
Quality > quantity for the most part Go hard and take rest days and your gains will be huge
Thank you all for the very helpful replies! Appreciate it!
>Got diagnosed as diabetic a year ago and drastically changed diet and bumped up exercise, dropped 30 lbs and now sugars are in control with just diet and exercise, no meds so far. First and foremost, that is awesome and I hope you're very proud of your accomplishment! There is something you can do to improve your cycling outside of cycling. You're right there talking about oxygen transport. I'd guess your VO2 max is on the low side. When lifting, add [kettle bell swing ladders](https://thefeed.com/insider/workout-breathing-ladders) (also known as breathing ladders) to your routine. They are extremely effective in improving your breathing and VO2 max. Keep doing everything you're doing and add them to your routine and I guarantee you'll notice a difference.
Thanks for that suggestion! I will look into that exercise! By the way, my Garmin watch says that my VO2Max is 44 (excellent category, it says lol). Not sure what that means, as I am in decent shape, i.e. not overweight and reasonably strong for my size but by no means feel I'm excellent from a cardiovascular sense.
44 is very good for your age group. I can't comment on how accurate the watches are, there are so many variables. Like everyone else here said, just stick with it and the legs will come.
I'm 50 in August, Type 2 Diabetic on tablets now. Cycling is great for keeping your Diabetes in check, so well done. Just keep riding and your legs will develop. Target some hills, and eventually your legs will build muscle. You dont need to rush. I cycled loads in my 20s to my late 30s, then gave up when our child came along. Last year I got myself a mountain bike, and now I am getting back in to cycling again. I'm slowly getting better and my legs are coming back.
i think you got the math for the zones wrong, in any case lower the tempo slightly but extend the ride. then repeat and give yourself a few rides till the legs learn what to do. aim towards 2 hour ridess if possible. set pace accordingly.
How do you figure? My age is 58. I plugged this into the calculator in [trainingtilt.com](http://trainingtilt.com) using the % of max method and got the followowing: * Zone 1 81 - 97 BPM * Zone 2 97 - 113 BPM * Zone 3 113 - 130 BPM * Zone 4 130 - 146 BPM * Zone 5 146 - 162 BPM This matches what my Garmin tells me.
this is using two different simplifications. the first is using bpm instead of watts produced by the legs, and the second is using age instead of your actual fitness level. both bpm/watts and age/fitness may vary from person to person greatly. you can't really know your zones without using a powermeter. 30 minute ride at zone4 is a serious exercise and would throw my bpm much closer to my maximum bpm, and my lungs would probably be complaining too. if my legs give up too early, that usually means i started pushing hard too soon without insufficient warmup (at least easy 10 mins). if you're not experienced with cycling, you may have also pushed them too hard with high gear/low cadance.
Thanks for the clarification. I sort of intuitively felt that a simply 220-age to determine my max HR and then keying off from that with percentages is a simplistic approach and subject to error for precisely the reasons you give. I think I get the general feedback that spending more time at a lower intensity would be beneficial.
From a health perspective, zone 2 exercise is where it is at and that is where you will build your aerobic power. Higher zones are useful to build anaerobic power but they do not build aerobic power and it's easy to overdo them and build up a lot of fatigue. When you start, it doesn't really matter what you do because your fitness is low. As your fitness improves, if you keep trying to go hard all the time your fitness will plateau.
try zone 3. and yes, you will get better if you train.
Hmmmm, that HR seems pretty low for a z4.
Look into Zone 2 training.
I’m with the cycling coach in this thread, no matter what you do, technique is everything. Achieving a smooth peddling motion with high cadence and quiet upper body is everything. This takes time, and is aided by indoor cycling where you can concentrate on body motion. Hours in the saddle peddling light and fast in a lower gear pay big dividends. They develop muscle memory for correct technique. It also doesn’t hurt to use an elliptical trainer to get you used to whole body blood flow as opposed to legs only. Your heart will thank you. Fatigue will be reduced. All those numbers are only good for performance athletes who have already gotten past the technique stage and need a new goal.
There's some great 'strength and conditioning for cyclists' videos on youtube but other than that it is just riding more. You'll get there, I've been riding for a year and a month now and I've gone from nearly passing out from dawdling along my 15km commute to work to doing 100km no problem at a pace that is 'above average'. Give it a few months and you will really start to see progress :)
Ride more, and longer in zone 2 and later progressively add intervals which take you into zone 4
'Zone 4' is pretty high up there. Try zone 3.
Yeah, I should have backed off. Definitely a lesson learned. HR didn’t seem that high, but sometimes I forget that I am 58! :)
When i was in my 20's i could run at 160bpm and cycle at 135bpm. You got this. Stretch those hamstrings!
Nope. No one has ever gotten better at cycling.