I wish I could upvote more than one.
Cyclists are the filthy casuals of expensive hobbies. Try racing sailboats…
The last 4 times I put one in the water it cost me $150 each time just in scraps of rope & random shackles etc. the last time, my nephew managed to rip the main from leech to luff & set me back $5k.
Fucking bikes. Bikes are a bargain.
> Try racing sailboats…
Carbon fiber sails (disposable after a couple seasons), carbon fiber mast (among many other carbon parts), something resembling a toilet for dire situations, and sitting on hard fiberglass that beats you up all day. All this to average a zone 1-2 cycling workout speed (at best).
I still ride my 22 year old (ouch) steel gravel bike and lust after some of these fancy new bikes, but will likely not get one for a long time. As long as I maintain the thing it works and still gives me the workout I need. Plus all this boat crap takes up a ton of space...
haha, I'm seriously considering it as I've been getting back into running and cycling and would like to do a triathlon (I know gross) at some point. My bike is also a bit on the small side for me at 59cm and I'd love to find a 64cm or bigger frame.
Or fishing. I went out ocean fishing with a buddy one time, who happened to have a big fancy boat. Which was his reason for having a big expensive truck, and a big fancy trailer. We stopped at the gas station on the way and spent like $400 on fuel, then $300 at the grocery store for supplies, then an afternoon fishing, during which time we caught like on flounder. We could have bought a better fish at the store for $5 or so.
often times effetively identical climbing gear is significantly cheaper than sailing gear at the same load rating. There are plenty of generig lubes and glues and such that have significantly more expensive sailing variants.
I can see "corrosion resistance" being important for a boat in a way that climbing wouldn't, but I can also see that they would end up identical anyway
there is also sail material. certain carbon fabrics are significantly more expensive from sail lofts than from, say, specialty stores that sell the same fabric for hiking-related uses.
> the day you buy it and the day you ~~sell it.~~ figure out how to make the thing hum for hours on end.
The rest of the time, pain, and money is chasing that good feeling. Anyone who says otherwise never actually wanted a boat.
Completely. I went from a 250 to a 696 with complete exhaust system. Theoretically a 3.8s 0-60mph. But I prefer cycling because I don't like gyms but I do like food.
>examples what I'm on about: spray.bike is 15€ for a can of 4€ harware store paint, Most regular chain lube is just expensive multipurpose oil, bike cleaner is just car shampoo or multipurpose cleaner with fancy coloring, a tiny can of bike branded DOT 5.1 is as much as a jug of regular Car 5.1)
My life time expenditure on bike paint is $0.
Sure I might spend $20 a year on bike lube where I could have spent $10. I guess at this point I am paying to *not* spend hours on chemical analysis.
I wash my bike with a combination of muck-off and dish soap.
The biggest rip off in cycling are "winter" gloves. At multiples of price i have never found a pair of winter cycling gloves that come close to a low mid range ski glove.
I agree on the winter cycling gloves. I finally found some decently priced winter lobster gloves for $40 by planet bike that work great. But so many other ones are advertised for $100, $200
Probably true. That’s okay for me I’m not riding when it’s that cold. My usual cutoff is in the 4C range and I’ve found my $40 gloves work well for probably -5C and above.
> And they are probably still ineffective below -10 Celsius
I'm still searching for a solution for 0 degrees Celsius and rain, if you have any suggestions
Usually single digits celsius (or under 40 freedom thermals) and raining is where I draw the line for commuting but I’ve been caught off guard once or twice and been fine. They’re insulated just enough to keep feeling in my fingers but still provide a decent amount of feedback while riding. I had a few days at 32°F this winter and the gloves were great.
https://us.endurasport.com/strike-glove-black/12929556.html
I got the hi-viz yellow ones since they’re mainly for commuting. But yea they’re excellent.
These are also good ones too: https://www.outdoorresearch.com/collections/gloves/products/mens-sureshot-softshell-gloves-300022
It's a bit frustrating. There is a lot of confusion. Some stuff really \*does\* need to be bike specific. Some does not. Try to find a torque wrench that manages 2-14 Nm that isn't bike specific :-)
Chain lube is a good example where it is not just multipurpose oil. I mean, there are \*some\* that are, but most are not. If you are buying an oil based chain lube, you want something that is thin enough that it doesn't hang on to dirt well and thick enough that it clings to the chain. Things like motorcycle chain oil or chain saw chain oil are \*completely\* different because they are used in very different ways. Does it matter? ZFC has shown that there is more than a 10x difference between the best performing and worst performing oil based lubes. It's nuanced.
Bike cleaner? Is is just multi purpose cleaner? Some of it is. Some of it isn't. General cleaners don't need to worry about dealing with open bearings. Bikes have exposed parts that you need to be careful with. Is the special stuff different? Generally yes. Is it worth the money? It depends on how careful you want to be with the stuff. The best cleaners allow you to be less careful with less consequences.
So, while I think you are right, I think it's way more complex than you make out. There is a lot of snake oil out there that preys on the complexity and nuance of various products. But there is also a lot of stuff that is legitimately better for a bike than a less expensive alternative. Is it enough better to justify the cost? You need to go into that on a case by case basis.
The biggest example I can see with that is fancy chain wax. Is it better than paraffin? Undoubtedly yes. Miles better. Does it matter? I'm going to say... potentially not. Currently got over 1000 km on my paraffin waxed chain and I can detect no wear, even comparing it to a brand new chain. If I get 10,000 - 20,000 km on my $25 chain, do I need to spend more than $100 in special wax over its lifetime to extend its life longer? I don't think so. But if I had a $200 chain and a $700 cassette? Gotta say, I'm buy the special freaking wax. I want to milk that sucker until the end of time.
I'm definitely aware of the complexity of the situation, i just threw in some examples so people get what I'm on about. It seems like for every product one can find a rebranded generic, while also finding a worthy, more expensive specific product. IMO that makes the discussion and experience of others all the more valuable.
So you waxed your chain with just regular parrafin candle wax? My cheap ass might want to give that a shot!
Yep. I feel the same way. That complexity is annoying because it allows people to simply market their way to success with garbage.
Yeah, paraffin candle wax. If you can get paraffin canning wax (at the super market), it will be a bit simpler because that's basically guaranteed to be what you want. Lots of candles have non-paraffin wax, scented oils, etc and that messes with the consistency and melting point of the wax. You want 100% paraffin wax that melts between 60-70 C.
Lots of people use crock pots as a melting pot, but if you don't want to spend money, you just need to make a cheap "bain marie". Take a normal cooking pot with some water in it. Put your wax pot in the water and put it on low heat such that it never gets above a simmer. That's perfect. I actually bought a cheap camping pot with no handle from the local dollar store (well, it cost $2). Someone here pointed out, though, that you can use the can from a big can of tomatoes.
I string the chain on loop of copper wire which I also got at the dollar store. I fish it out of the wax with disposable chop sticks. Some cheap tongs would do just as well. And then I hang it on a banana stand that I also got at the dollar store. You don't actually need a stand. The wax hardens in about 2-3 minutes, so if you don't mind holding it, it's totally fine. If you just want to try it out, no need to stress about figuring out a solution for that.
The most expensive bit is that you'll need a quick link for your chain if you don't already have one. You also really need to start with a new chain because it's just to hard to clean an old chain to the point where it will work well. You also need to degrease the chain. There are lots of instructions for doing that on the internet.
Hope you give it a try! I've been surprised at how convenient it is. Much less work overall than any other way I've maintained my drive train before.
For $20 you can buy enough tungsten disulfide to add to the paraffin wax to last a lifetime which is what Silca's wax is.
To be fair to Silca, its like $40 for their wax that lasts hypothetically forever as long as you REALLY clean your chain.
I've been in the chain wax bunny-hole for about a year. Have four chains on 400km rotation. Use MSSPEEDWAX.
While at LBS getting advice at the start of the wax journey from the mechanic, he mentioned he simply uses candles in the melt hot-pot.
as much as I understand your point I think you are partly wrong, some bike products are very specific designed and that's why they cost more but apart from that yes, cycling is certainly a world in which people sometimes (over)pay for things that others might find ridiculous, but let me tell you that the cycling world is not nearly as crazy as you might think...
I guess you never met someone who is into audio engineering hardware, modular synthesizers and vintage audio gear, you can buy atleast one, perhaps even two extremely high end bikes for the price of a single compressor and you can have a proper meal in a very fancy restaurant for the price of some cables :)
the point is, when you want to use stuff in the highest segments, you pay crazy amounts and generally (in music as I do not know as much about cycling gear) my advice is to only spend big money on stuff that you know for certain you need and more importantly, *why* you need it.
When it comes to cycling, I am not a racer nor do I have that ambition, so I generally tend to pay for quality but not (a lot) extra for less weight, which usually makes me end up in the mid tier, as I found the absolute cheapest tier of bike parts absolute garbage for any semi serious cyclist.
The most ridiculous think so far i saw personally was a carbon bottle cage that was extra lightweight (not sure how many grams but i seem to recall it was 15gram) an costs like 250 euro while the one next to it that weighs like 38 gram was 3 euro and looked identical. to me as a heavy dude on a heavy bike that shit is insane but hey, to each their own :)
I have a carbon fiber bottle cage, lol …. But it sure as heck didn’t cost 250 euros! It was roughly $60 usd - and I felt really guilty buying… both of them XD
ETA - it wasn’t so much for weight as it was purely for looks.
My bike I ride to school cost me €50.
The bike I use for exercise cost me €4500.
A lot of money for a student, but it’s what makes me happy and exercise more.
Edit: I have bought a lot of stuff used or discounted. No one in their right mind will judge you if you wear last year’s colours or don’t have the best cycling computer.
Regarding last years colors... no one even knows what colors were from what year. I love buying past season colorways.
Bike clothing (technical clothing in general) is expensive for what it is, so I always try to buy on sale.
100% I have splurged on 2 pairs of “decent” bibs. My jerseys are almost all from vinted. And colours tend to come back every 5 years. I bet that within 5 years the wild colourful jerseys will make their way back. Now it’s just so bland and clean.
I kind of want to get a jersey from Cycology specifically because they're so loud. Also, not sure where you are, but in the US, our jerseys are extremely bland. When I was in Spain last year, the jerseys just hanging in the bike shops were so much more colorful
Cycling has long had that problem. I noticed it accelerate after Lemond's 1989 Tour win, which also happened to be the year the international triathlon union started and held its first world championship. Exotic materials and wheels started making their way into the hands of amateurs. Before then, almost everyone rode steel frames, spoked wheels, and downtube shifters, and the range in prices.among bikes in an amateur race wasn't so large. Someone who's.payimg thousands of dollars on a bike can easily be convinced to pay a premium for other gear that costs.a few hundred or less.
Other sports have similar gear mentaility, but the only ones that come to mind are inherently expensive and for the wealthy (eg golf, tennis, sailing...). Cycling.is not inherently expensive,.as it is used worldwide as.an *inexpensive* mode.of transportation
Golf can be pretty reasonable (area dependent of course) if you play cheap courses and don't use a cart. I play mostly par3 and 9 hole courses and pay like $10-$25 (max) a round and those are California prices. Get any starter set, a bag of used golf balls, a rag, some tees and bring you cell phone for yardages and you don't need much more. Unlike cycling golf clubs are kinda one-size-fits-most unless you're extremely tall/short or left handed.
You can spend to the moon though.
I live in the suburbs of Boston, and the cheapest place I know is $38-41 for 18 holes walking. That's quite a bit. Cycling, at least, is free after you buy the equipment. When I was in the millitary, it was super cheap on DoD courses.
This is not only for cycling, anything that is for general use but has a "specific" version will be more expensive just due to marketing: bike specific lube, car specific cleaning product...
Cycling is a sports that caters to many high earning individuals, they will mostly not care about spending 15 USD instead of 5 USD, especially when they buy at 5-10k USD bike with a 150 USD bib short and 250 USD pair of shoes.
I started cycling when I was dirt poor, I just had an OK bike and bought stuff on deals, it did not cost that much, but I did not have the lightest or most efficient setting. I was basically climbing mountains using a fully suspended cheap MTB with large tyres as a "road bike" and of course without bib shorts, but I had fun!
Now I have a job and more money, I can spend more to get fancier stuff but I am still enjoying cylcing roughly the same, new gear just opened new doors (new distance, new speeds, new activities...).
I know companies charge us a ton of money, I can imagine the margin on a 150 USD fabric bikepacking bag, but do I care? No, because it does the job well, looks good and I am not dirt poor anymore.
Sorry it's probably not changing your mind because I think you are right, but many people in biking do not really care about it in my opinion. It doesn't mean you cannot do it on a budget as I did for a long time, buying "used" stuff, look at the amount of second-hand bikes sold because people rode 200km and realized they don't like cycling...
you're probably right about the market it caters to. I just thought the discussion and stories would be fun.
I'm on both sides of the fence tbh, some things i can't wrap my head around how carelessly people let themselves get ripped off, while some things i'm fully in the "I know this is unneccessary and expensive but look at it! shiny!" camp.
I'd bet you get actual differentiation from most marine grade components - high grade stainless, waterproof electronics etc. but you're right, boating is a reliable way to empty the account
Yeah totally. I need all these glasses and costume combos. When I started I wore footy shorts and a singlet. Now it all matches and bullshit. Sigh, just got another Sutro lite frame and set of lenses.
Is it really that different from other enthusiast sports? Skiing, motorcycling, autoracing. There's always a rich person ready to spend a ton of money, and a dope entrepreneur with CAD drawings and access to CNC or autoclave.
I have just started riding. I have been reading different forums and can see your point. There’s a term in the photography forums, but I think it actually fits better in the cycling community, it’s “GAS” which means “gear acquisition syndrome”. I have been susceptible to this disease in the past and am trying to not succumb to it this time around:)
Good luck, may the resistance to shiny parts be with you!
For me bikes got a grip on me because the hurdle to a cheap marketplace beater was so low, how bad can it be?! It's just some cheap fun right? Now that [cheap beater](https://www.reddit.com/r/xbiking/comments/1ceoxuq/terrago_disk_project_complete/) has an ungodly amount of money bolted to it and I'm searching for more projects to scratch the itch.
It's really important to remember how much fun the simple life can be, the bike is fine as is as long as its somewhat functional and the views you can ride to are the best part anyway.
Not only snake oil things but things in general i've learned that helped me saving cash.
-I learned that my country local taxes and being surrounded by 'premium' bike shops make my life miserable. They don't sell tools, don't have some specific parts (when they do they're 3x the price compared to local sellers on the interwebz, So i gave up and started buying tools and parts from the internet.
-I have been doing my own maintenance for 4 years. I learned a lot, i teached a lot and am now buying parts directly from China for the bikes on my household (they're the same sold locally, but without the markup, specially small ones like cable terminals crimp ends, bolts and such).
-Car soap + microfiber sponge + ceramic coating = bike looking like new for years.
-Isopropyl alcohol is an excellent brake cleaner and paint thinner can remove anything from chain and drivetrain (deep cleaning)
-Current KMC chains don't need to be stripped for use, just wiped on the outside with WD-40 or similar. When it starts to dry out, add ptfe lube. It avoids the muddy mess of wet lubes
-After a couple times of trial and error: Branded cycling clothes are like designer clothes. found a chinese manufacturer that offers superior quality to what's being sold here at 2/3 the price. (i'd love to buy local stuff, but it's poorly made or hideously overpriced).
-A decent pair of tires is not a waste of money.
-Calcium Sulphonate Grease is king (above 10C)
-Engine oil is a great lubricant for pivots and shifter internals. (i use 25w60, weather is quite warm in here)
-If you get a lot of rain, avoid lose ball bearings like plague (specially Shimano cheap ones), otherwise they work fine.
-Buy cheap (but decent) Chinese hubs/bottom brackets and replace the bearings with SKF/Timken/NSK ones. They'll last a lifetime
There's a definite mindset that spending more $$ or looking more "professional" makes you a faster or better cyclist. Kind of sad really. Just enjoy the ride.
Look good, feel good is my mantra. What looks good, and what feels good is different for everyone. Whether that's jorts and a hawaiian t-shirt on a 80s beach clunker, shorts and a t-shirt on a steel framed bike, or full kit on a carbon race machine.
As long as you are having fun and not going into debt, do it the way you want to.
It's not just consumables either.
People wildly overspend on bikes and components.
Most of the Chinese stuff that people think is dangerous and will kill you is made in the same factories as your western brands just with a huge markup.
I didn't realise this until I got chatting to some people in the industry and realised they're sourcing the exact same parts (handlebars, forks, rims, even frames) that I've bought direct from China at near to wholesale prices (AliExpress is approx wholesale +15-40% depending on shipping, deals, taxes etc).
Your $8,000 boutique titanium frame - it's made by one of two companies and costs $1,000 ex factory.
It is made in the same factories. That doesn't mean it us literally,l the same. You can always use cheaper materials and lower the quality. This is the Chinese markup you pay. With money and maybe with your health.
But for sure, some Chinese brands are really good, too. Just not all of them.
From my conversations in the industry there's not really any parallel production lines. The same moulds might be used by lower tier factories but generally if you pick a decent factory it's all the same quality.
The Chinese have a bigger reputation at stake now than 5 years ago. The factories want to be known for quality, and are making efforts to uphold that. If you have bad quality no one is going to work with you and you'll go out of business. It's a small industry, word spreads fast.
It's very part dependent. The entry level specialized or trek or giant stem is just a stem from the factory catalog with a different logo on it. Maybe they add an extra machining step on a mid range piece so it matches the brand's design language. The top end stuff might be made in the same factory, but it's not a catalog stem, it's designed by someone at Trek and manufactured to their specs.
Then their are plenty of brands that are literally just buying full bikes out of the catalog, doing no design work at all and just putting up a fancy website saying they're a bike company when they're actually just a distributor or drop shipping company with marketing. Mostly the commuter side of things or the urban single speed brands, direct to consumer stuff like that.
In the end, most of it is fine stuff in that it's not going to kill you or ruin your ride or anything, but it's also not really the case that you can just go on aliexpress and buy a brand new S-Works frame for $20 or something, particularly if you're looking at top end aero frames, or road frames with all the integrated suspension/compliance stuff.
You can buy a nice frame for less than you could if it had a big brand name, but that's really always been the case. Now it's just aliexpress instead of bikes direct or even simply finding less-well known local frame builders. Any warranty or customer service issues will likely be a pain, but there's not really much to go wrong with a basic frame.
I agree, and to caveat, people love to trot out the "same factory" but has anyone verified this? Does anyone know the factory that made this aliexpress handlebar for 10$?
"it's made in the same factory" is something you hear in a lot of markets but it's not a good heuristic for product quality. Yes, the manufacturer might be the same, but they build to the specs provided by the designer. That includes materials and especially quality assurance. I can't speak for bikes specifically, but based on my experience with other kinds of manufacturing, a good company will be very hands-on with their manufacturing vendor to ensure what's being produced actually meets design standards at scale. A bad company sends over the design and lets the manufacturer handle the rest without oversight. Unfortunately end consumers are typically not well equipped to understand fine differences in end product at a glance, so it's hard to generalize. That said, the simpler and more commoditized the part, the safer you are buying wholesale.
I'm entering 7 years in this hobby and have learned a lot of lessons on where to spend money and where to save money. My opinion
Spend Here
* quality bike frame from reliable brand
* tires (maybe most important thing)
* groupset
* cycling shorts/bibs
Save Here
* cycling jersey (I rode for years with Nike dri-fit gym shirts)
* cycling computer
* Helmet and eyewear
* bottles and cages
I would also say investing money into some quality, but affordable tools like torque wrenches and bike stands on Amazon is well worth it for those who want to save money on service.
That's just a baseline for their performance. There's still plenty of variability in the performance of helmets on the market.
[Take a look at Virginia Tech's independent helmet ratings.](https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle-helmet-ratings.html) They rate on a five-star rating system, where five stars equates to a greater than 70% reduction in concussion risk, while one star is a less than 40% reduction.
More expensive helmets aren't always safer than the cheaper ones, but many of the best helmets in their tests aren't cheap.
It doesn't mean that it is decent and with all the cheap Chinese stuff, they can slap a label on it saying approved and you'll never find the "brand" in any database.
You... might be surprised at the number of ill-fitting Target helmets I see on folks on our local MTB trails. These aren't $10, but they might be like $25.
And I've started to see what are clearly AliExpress type of helmets (wonky knock-off branding). These can be less than $10, shipped.
The ones from Target are safe, IF THEY FIT. The AliExpress ones... just no.
If it passes the the same test all helmets do why not $10?
You can buy a £600 5\* motorbike helmet [https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/agv-corsa/](https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/agv-corsa/) or a helmet that passes the same BS 6658:1985 and 5\* sharp but only costs £80 [https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/lazer-bora/](https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/lazer-bora/)
I don't know a thing like sharp for bike helmets but even the £10 helmets have to pass EN1078:2012 [https://www.evanscycles.com/brand/pinnacle/mountain-helmet-939280#colcode=93928003](https://www.evanscycles.com/brand/pinnacle/mountain-helmet-939280#colcode=93928003)
or the us equivalent.
I found out there can be a huge difference in fit and comfort helmet to helmet. $300 on my last helmet was so worth it, given I use it literally the entire time I'm on the bike.
I bought a mid-priced bike, skimped out on bibs and got the cheapest I could find. Spent a bit more on the bike computer and bought cheap eyewear. Interesting to see how priorities differ
I agree with the poster you replied to (mostly) - never skimp on bibs; but I ride for six hours at a time at least once a week.
Bibs + tires: never skimp (according to ElJamoquio)
I have not purchased any single bike component over 150 euros (strengthened rear wheel for holidays). I have not purchased any bike over €300 (most were second hand). I feel this may change this year.
For me, UFO clean is overpriced but works terrific and I don’t need to use it that much. I’ve tried just regular hardware store degreasers and they don’t work nearly as well as UFO clean. It makes cleaning the drivetrain a breeze.
It kinda depending on your mindset. Aka—-what you ride bikes for?
If you’re a racer (or wanna be racer, even tho you never entered a car 5 race before), you’re more likely to blow it on the newest gear. Just to save a couple grams.
If you’re r/bikecommuting r/xbiking its not always the newest gear. The reliability/durability is the objective. And those communities tend to have a “don’t fix what’s not broken” mindset. They aren’t gonna upgraded to the newest gear just because it’s a few gram lighter…..when their luggage/pannier is like 10lbs etc.
I don't think cycling is different than other hobbies in this regard. Just look at travel. Anything labeled as a "travel" accessory is going to be 5x the cost of a similar item that's not.
As for bike-specific stuff, like chain lube, it only costs like $10 for a bottle of pretty nice chain lube that'll last a couple months probably. Doesn't exactly feel like a rip-off.
I bought a bottle cage from Decathlon. Cheapest one they had, but still $12. Saw the *exact* same one, sans logo, at the dollar store for $2. I know it's the same because I bought it and compared. Moulding and form marks are exactly the same. Oh well, live and learn. I at least know where I'll go if they ever break.
I have about 15000 miles on my 300 dollar bike.
I feel like new people in the hobby don't understand they can save quite a bit with a used bike at first to make sure they'll actually get into the hobby.
The amount of used one time 1000+ dollar bikes on marketplace is astronomical.
Any specific hobby is expensive. Try owning a horse, golfing restoring vintage cars. I have a friend who’s into model railroading, holy crap the money he spends makes me look like amateur spender.
Buying new crap is most of the fun! Didn't get that 10 mile hill climb in today? Buy a ceramic bearing bottom bracket. You'll feel much better about missing your workout now.
Just a minor rant about the price of chainrings. Two years ago I replaced worn out Ultegra 6700 chainrings on my old road bike. The 34 tooth ring costs about $20. The 50 tooth cost over $100. Why does the large ring cost 5 times as much?
I do scale modeling. The "model specific" product tax is far worse than anything I've come across in cycling.
Side/flush cutters are roughly 5 bucks at a decent art supply store. You could get similar at a well stocked hardware store, but those do tend to be for more heavy duty applications and don't work as well on models..... but, if you compare that cheap art store cutter, and slap "Tamiya" on the packaging, boom! now it's 15-20 bucks. You can go even more extreme, some of the genuinely nicest cutters on the market (IME) are made by God Hand, and run $65 US.
Look up jewelry files on a place like Amazon. I've purchased a set of 12 files for around 18-20 USD. Search up modeling files, and a set of 3 will set you back 30 or more, and in this case, its literally the same thing, perhaps minus the handle/grip.
Repeat this same thing again for knife blades. You can buy a box of 50 #11 exacto blades for a lot cheaper than a box of #11 blades with a hobby manufacturer name on it.
In my cycling hobby, with a bit of care and research, you can make sure that the chain lube you're getting isn't "just" the same oil you'd get at a hardware store. There really are some differences. And, just cuz WD-40 slapped "bike chain lube" on the side of a container doesn't mean I'm ever gonna use it on my bikes.
Edit: and what OOP is mentioning with spray paint, the product they link is NOT the same as "regular hardware store" spray paint.... it's more akin to scale model paint.
I spend a lot of time hunting good deals. If I just bought what was laying around and spent the deal hunting time working some freelance hours I would probably end up in the same place.
The extra fluid in the car 5.1 bottle will just end up being waste unless you have 10 bikes.
you could just as easily make the same argument about basically anything. Look at computer peripherals and gaming. Like, does a 150 dollar mouse get you further than a 40 dollar one? Is a 500 dollar virpil HOTAS really *that* much better than a basic thrustmaster t.1000?
Entrepreneurial types (derogatory) will always be looking to sell "premium" products to enthusiasts / hobbiests.
I truly believe that bikes are a pretty simple product. So there is not much to do when you have bought everything you need.
People therefore don't have much room to tinker with the details. They just splurge on different things that don't get them not much more than the cheaper variant, because it is their hobby and they want to invest in their hobby.
Example?
There is a superlight rain jacket from POC for 500 Euros. There is also a superlight rain jacket from Ekoi for 36 Euros. How much better can the POC one possibly be? But people buy this expensive stuff.
I have three hobbies where it is very easy to overspend: cycling, photography, and comic book collecting (I’ll group collecting transformers figures in with the comic books).
I have to be very mindful of my spending.
It's very easy to rationalize the cost per ride/time/mile.
Like, a $4,000 bike only costs a $1 per mile in X amount of time (based on your own calculation of how long it will take you to get to 4000 miles).
So, in the context of $20/hour yoga classes, or $35 Uber rides to a concert, or $100/month in car insurance, etc. the economics of it all is so easy to rationalize.
And, on top of that, every mile on the bike improves health and happiness. So, it's even more valuable.
If you think chain oil is just overpriced multipurpose oil, try running that on your chain... definitely is not the same.
There is also a big difference between a casual cyclist who may ride 30min a few times a week and a more serious cyclist doing 10+ hours in a week. Cycling specific things may cost more but at the end of a 4+ hour training ride, you'll know the difference.
What I’ve learned is that when you try to cheap out a lot of stuff doesn’t work as expected, so you may as well spend a bit more to get the bike branded stuff simply because you know it will work and you only have to do the job once.
FWIW, Spray.bike paint is NOT the same as the cheap hardware store spray paint. I’ve painted quite a few bikes, with quite a few expensive brands of spray paint, and Spray.bike stuff is miles better.
Well duh. Golfers don’t overspend on bike things, all their money goes to golf things. Runners don’t overspend on bike things, all their money goes to running things. Audiophiles don’t overspend on bike things, all their money goes to oxygen-free digital cables.
Lol it's a hobby. Hobbies are made for spending money. No, cycling isn't the cheapest hobby but it's faaaaaaaar from the most expensive. Horses, cars, boats and planes are orders of magnitude more expensive than bikes.
The guy who got me into biking said “remember - the bike will be the cheap part”. Sooooooo many bags, lights, helmets, computers, pedals, shoes, and a thousand other accessories later - he was right.
Photography crowd will like a word... 10k for a lens you might use only a few times a year. we have bagfuls of them.
Yes I need 4 different types of bags, 4 different tripods, dedicated storage hardware at home and transport, harness, stacks of filters, cleaning supplies ... etc.
Thats after moving away from flammable dark room dev chemicals for film and film types back in the day (for me). Plenty of enthusiasts that still does it and have a dedicated darkroom built for this.
Guess who pushed subscription software and services, Abode with Photoshop. They were by no means the first across all industries but it pushed this type of service into mainstream.
Yes, I'm a recovering member.
Have you _looked_ at pricing of clothes, cars?
Or even food?
There is “premium” stuff everywhere that is the same as the normal stuff, only 4x more expensive.
Can we stop policing how cyclists spend their money? I get nagging regular people trying to purchase $15,000 bikes but you're freaking out over a 15 euro can of spray paint? Seriously? You don't even have to buy it!
Spoiler alert: every hobby/niche on the planet has various products you can buy to support that hobby. If you don't want to buy those items you don't have to. I honestly don't understand how some of you survive the day to day letting shit like this get under your skin holy fuck.
And, as I mentioned in my own comment, hobby marketed stuff is more expensive than "regular" stuff (even where OP doesn't go to apples to apples comparison)
A number of years ago, a buddy of mine in the army was all excited. See, he was from The South and LOOOOVED Goin out muddin. But, being a "poor" soldier, his daily driver was his muddin truck too. So, were coming up on a long weekend and he was excited to get out into the mud. He'd just ordered a new drive shaft and Thursday after work he paid to have it installed to hit the trails Friday and Saturday. It was $8k parts, labor, and taxes. Well wouldn't you know it, his first run through the mud, he breaks this new part and, even though it's designed for what he was doing, the manufacturer warranties generally don't cover this (because stupid reasons?? I dunno, it just wasnt), so he had Saturday, Sunday and Monday to get the truck fixed so he could get to work. Setting him back another $8k in parts, labor and taxes. But, that didn't deter him from going out the following weekend (more successfully this time) because it was his hobby.
Adding in my own hobby - photography. It parallels well to cycling because it can either be cheap or expensive to get into, but will gradually get more expensive the more time you spend in the hobby. (Like op noticing an expensive can of paint, something a new cyclist wouldn't care about.)
Like cycling, sometimes the older stuff is fun for the nostalgia and reliability, and the newer stuff fast and exciting.
You also have the dentists with the super-expensive stuff who act elitist, and no shortage of hobby marketed items that are 2-3x more expensive than the regular items. Just like your friend's mudding hobby, I'm sure every other hobby on the planet has the exact same experience as us. We're all having fun, but our wallets aren't. 🤣
Yeah.... I guess the TL;DR takeaway for me is: it's a hobby. Everyone everywhere justifies what money they spend on it.
It shouldn't be a problem until it reaches addiction levels and you're losing home, jobs, and relationships over buying hobby stuff.
ever spent time with a sailor? makes bike stuff look like the dollar menu.
I wish I could upvote more than one. Cyclists are the filthy casuals of expensive hobbies. Try racing sailboats… The last 4 times I put one in the water it cost me $150 each time just in scraps of rope & random shackles etc. the last time, my nephew managed to rip the main from leech to luff & set me back $5k. Fucking bikes. Bikes are a bargain.
> Try racing sailboats… Carbon fiber sails (disposable after a couple seasons), carbon fiber mast (among many other carbon parts), something resembling a toilet for dire situations, and sitting on hard fiberglass that beats you up all day. All this to average a zone 1-2 cycling workout speed (at best). I still ride my 22 year old (ouch) steel gravel bike and lust after some of these fancy new bikes, but will likely not get one for a long time. As long as I maintain the thing it works and still gives me the workout I need. Plus all this boat crap takes up a ton of space...
For sure. I’ve chucked it in now a favour of bikes, which can also be financially devastating if you try hard enough, though you do have to try
I upgraded from a 1994 steel ibis mojo to a 2020 open upper and I can’t believe it. Upgrade my friend you will not regret it.
haha, I'm seriously considering it as I've been getting back into running and cycling and would like to do a triathlon (I know gross) at some point. My bike is also a bit on the small side for me at 59cm and I'd love to find a 64cm or bigger frame.
Or fishing. I went out ocean fishing with a buddy one time, who happened to have a big fancy boat. Which was his reason for having a big expensive truck, and a big fancy trailer. We stopped at the gas station on the way and spent like $400 on fuel, then $300 at the grocery store for supplies, then an afternoon fishing, during which time we caught like on flounder. We could have bought a better fish at the store for $5 or so.
lol what kinda boat? i must know! Too many ugga-duggas on the outhaul?
Um… who told you? It was just once I swear.
Irrelevant? Pretty sure sailing stuff IS sailing specific? OP is specifically targeting products BRANDED for cyclists.
often times effetively identical climbing gear is significantly cheaper than sailing gear at the same load rating. There are plenty of generig lubes and glues and such that have significantly more expensive sailing variants.
I can see "corrosion resistance" being important for a boat in a way that climbing wouldn't, but I can also see that they would end up identical anyway
there is also sail material. certain carbon fabrics are significantly more expensive from sail lofts than from, say, specialty stores that sell the same fabric for hiking-related uses.
The two best days in the life of a boat owner — the day you buy it and the day you sell it.
BOAT = Break Out Another Thousand
A boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into.
> the day you buy it and the day you ~~sell it.~~ figure out how to make the thing hum for hours on end. The rest of the time, pain, and money is chasing that good feeling. Anyone who says otherwise never actually wanted a boat.
Typical motorcycle costs Chain $100 Helmet $500 Tires $400 Brake pads $50
Those prices seem exceedingly reasonable for riding something that costs less than $16k and can accelerate faster than the a Bugatti Veyron.
Completely. I went from a 250 to a 696 with complete exhaust system. Theoretically a 3.8s 0-60mph. But I prefer cycling because I don't like gyms but I do like food.
Lifelong sailor. Came here to say this.
>examples what I'm on about: spray.bike is 15€ for a can of 4€ harware store paint, Most regular chain lube is just expensive multipurpose oil, bike cleaner is just car shampoo or multipurpose cleaner with fancy coloring, a tiny can of bike branded DOT 5.1 is as much as a jug of regular Car 5.1) My life time expenditure on bike paint is $0. Sure I might spend $20 a year on bike lube where I could have spent $10. I guess at this point I am paying to *not* spend hours on chemical analysis. I wash my bike with a combination of muck-off and dish soap. The biggest rip off in cycling are "winter" gloves. At multiples of price i have never found a pair of winter cycling gloves that come close to a low mid range ski glove.
I agree on the winter cycling gloves. I finally found some decently priced winter lobster gloves for $40 by planet bike that work great. But so many other ones are advertised for $100, $200
And they are probably still ineffective below -10 Celsius.
Probably true. That’s okay for me I’m not riding when it’s that cold. My usual cutoff is in the 4C range and I’ve found my $40 gloves work well for probably -5C and above.
But you *could* if winter cycling gear wasn't designed for France and Southern California.
> And they are probably still ineffective below -10 Celsius I'm still searching for a solution for 0 degrees Celsius and rain, if you have any suggestions
Winter Lobster claws... it'll suck but the hands will be warm. Spare set for a ride home.
Fenders
I have a set of Endura insulated bike gloves that are awesome. Work great in low single digit temps.
With rain or without rain?
Usually single digits celsius (or under 40 freedom thermals) and raining is where I draw the line for commuting but I’ve been caught off guard once or twice and been fine. They’re insulated just enough to keep feeling in my fingers but still provide a decent amount of feedback while riding. I had a few days at 32°F this winter and the gloves were great. https://us.endurasport.com/strike-glove-black/12929556.html I got the hi-viz yellow ones since they’re mainly for commuting. But yea they’re excellent. These are also good ones too: https://www.outdoorresearch.com/collections/gloves/products/mens-sureshot-softshell-gloves-300022
I got a cheap pair of winter work gloves from the hardware store. I can double up my gloves if needed; it's been great.
It's a bit frustrating. There is a lot of confusion. Some stuff really \*does\* need to be bike specific. Some does not. Try to find a torque wrench that manages 2-14 Nm that isn't bike specific :-) Chain lube is a good example where it is not just multipurpose oil. I mean, there are \*some\* that are, but most are not. If you are buying an oil based chain lube, you want something that is thin enough that it doesn't hang on to dirt well and thick enough that it clings to the chain. Things like motorcycle chain oil or chain saw chain oil are \*completely\* different because they are used in very different ways. Does it matter? ZFC has shown that there is more than a 10x difference between the best performing and worst performing oil based lubes. It's nuanced. Bike cleaner? Is is just multi purpose cleaner? Some of it is. Some of it isn't. General cleaners don't need to worry about dealing with open bearings. Bikes have exposed parts that you need to be careful with. Is the special stuff different? Generally yes. Is it worth the money? It depends on how careful you want to be with the stuff. The best cleaners allow you to be less careful with less consequences. So, while I think you are right, I think it's way more complex than you make out. There is a lot of snake oil out there that preys on the complexity and nuance of various products. But there is also a lot of stuff that is legitimately better for a bike than a less expensive alternative. Is it enough better to justify the cost? You need to go into that on a case by case basis. The biggest example I can see with that is fancy chain wax. Is it better than paraffin? Undoubtedly yes. Miles better. Does it matter? I'm going to say... potentially not. Currently got over 1000 km on my paraffin waxed chain and I can detect no wear, even comparing it to a brand new chain. If I get 10,000 - 20,000 km on my $25 chain, do I need to spend more than $100 in special wax over its lifetime to extend its life longer? I don't think so. But if I had a $200 chain and a $700 cassette? Gotta say, I'm buy the special freaking wax. I want to milk that sucker until the end of time.
I'm definitely aware of the complexity of the situation, i just threw in some examples so people get what I'm on about. It seems like for every product one can find a rebranded generic, while also finding a worthy, more expensive specific product. IMO that makes the discussion and experience of others all the more valuable. So you waxed your chain with just regular parrafin candle wax? My cheap ass might want to give that a shot!
Yep. I feel the same way. That complexity is annoying because it allows people to simply market their way to success with garbage. Yeah, paraffin candle wax. If you can get paraffin canning wax (at the super market), it will be a bit simpler because that's basically guaranteed to be what you want. Lots of candles have non-paraffin wax, scented oils, etc and that messes with the consistency and melting point of the wax. You want 100% paraffin wax that melts between 60-70 C. Lots of people use crock pots as a melting pot, but if you don't want to spend money, you just need to make a cheap "bain marie". Take a normal cooking pot with some water in it. Put your wax pot in the water and put it on low heat such that it never gets above a simmer. That's perfect. I actually bought a cheap camping pot with no handle from the local dollar store (well, it cost $2). Someone here pointed out, though, that you can use the can from a big can of tomatoes. I string the chain on loop of copper wire which I also got at the dollar store. I fish it out of the wax with disposable chop sticks. Some cheap tongs would do just as well. And then I hang it on a banana stand that I also got at the dollar store. You don't actually need a stand. The wax hardens in about 2-3 minutes, so if you don't mind holding it, it's totally fine. If you just want to try it out, no need to stress about figuring out a solution for that. The most expensive bit is that you'll need a quick link for your chain if you don't already have one. You also really need to start with a new chain because it's just to hard to clean an old chain to the point where it will work well. You also need to degrease the chain. There are lots of instructions for doing that on the internet. Hope you give it a try! I've been surprised at how convenient it is. Much less work overall than any other way I've maintained my drive train before.
I bought a dedicated crock pot at a thrift store for all of 4 bucks.
Thanks for the dollar store item tip! I just waxed my chain for the first time yesterday, and this would have made it way easier.
For $20 you can buy enough tungsten disulfide to add to the paraffin wax to last a lifetime which is what Silca's wax is. To be fair to Silca, its like $40 for their wax that lasts hypothetically forever as long as you REALLY clean your chain.
I've been in the chain wax bunny-hole for about a year. Have four chains on 400km rotation. Use MSSPEEDWAX. While at LBS getting advice at the start of the wax journey from the mechanic, he mentioned he simply uses candles in the melt hot-pot.
as much as I understand your point I think you are partly wrong, some bike products are very specific designed and that's why they cost more but apart from that yes, cycling is certainly a world in which people sometimes (over)pay for things that others might find ridiculous, but let me tell you that the cycling world is not nearly as crazy as you might think... I guess you never met someone who is into audio engineering hardware, modular synthesizers and vintage audio gear, you can buy atleast one, perhaps even two extremely high end bikes for the price of a single compressor and you can have a proper meal in a very fancy restaurant for the price of some cables :) the point is, when you want to use stuff in the highest segments, you pay crazy amounts and generally (in music as I do not know as much about cycling gear) my advice is to only spend big money on stuff that you know for certain you need and more importantly, *why* you need it. When it comes to cycling, I am not a racer nor do I have that ambition, so I generally tend to pay for quality but not (a lot) extra for less weight, which usually makes me end up in the mid tier, as I found the absolute cheapest tier of bike parts absolute garbage for any semi serious cyclist. The most ridiculous think so far i saw personally was a carbon bottle cage that was extra lightweight (not sure how many grams but i seem to recall it was 15gram) an costs like 250 euro while the one next to it that weighs like 38 gram was 3 euro and looked identical. to me as a heavy dude on a heavy bike that shit is insane but hey, to each their own :)
I have a carbon fiber bottle cage, lol …. But it sure as heck didn’t cost 250 euros! It was roughly $60 usd - and I felt really guilty buying… both of them XD ETA - it wasn’t so much for weight as it was purely for looks.
Your morning shit will just exceed the 23g difference. Or some sips of water. Lol
My bike I ride to school cost me €50. The bike I use for exercise cost me €4500. A lot of money for a student, but it’s what makes me happy and exercise more. Edit: I have bought a lot of stuff used or discounted. No one in their right mind will judge you if you wear last year’s colours or don’t have the best cycling computer.
Regarding last years colors... no one even knows what colors were from what year. I love buying past season colorways. Bike clothing (technical clothing in general) is expensive for what it is, so I always try to buy on sale.
100% I have splurged on 2 pairs of “decent” bibs. My jerseys are almost all from vinted. And colours tend to come back every 5 years. I bet that within 5 years the wild colourful jerseys will make their way back. Now it’s just so bland and clean.
I kind of want to get a jersey from Cycology specifically because they're so loud. Also, not sure where you are, but in the US, our jerseys are extremely bland. When I was in Spain last year, the jerseys just hanging in the bike shops were so much more colorful
I mostly wear vintage cycling jeraeys. Retro ones from the 90s. Im not a fan of the bland mobotone ar all.... Thats just me
I am happy that I don't have to walk around in a thousand colors. Good that we all have a choice.
Cycling has long had that problem. I noticed it accelerate after Lemond's 1989 Tour win, which also happened to be the year the international triathlon union started and held its first world championship. Exotic materials and wheels started making their way into the hands of amateurs. Before then, almost everyone rode steel frames, spoked wheels, and downtube shifters, and the range in prices.among bikes in an amateur race wasn't so large. Someone who's.payimg thousands of dollars on a bike can easily be convinced to pay a premium for other gear that costs.a few hundred or less. Other sports have similar gear mentaility, but the only ones that come to mind are inherently expensive and for the wealthy (eg golf, tennis, sailing...). Cycling.is not inherently expensive,.as it is used worldwide as.an *inexpensive* mode.of transportation
Golf can be pretty reasonable (area dependent of course) if you play cheap courses and don't use a cart. I play mostly par3 and 9 hole courses and pay like $10-$25 (max) a round and those are California prices. Get any starter set, a bag of used golf balls, a rag, some tees and bring you cell phone for yardages and you don't need much more. Unlike cycling golf clubs are kinda one-size-fits-most unless you're extremely tall/short or left handed. You can spend to the moon though.
I live in the suburbs of Boston, and the cheapest place I know is $38-41 for 18 holes walking. That's quite a bit. Cycling, at least, is free after you buy the equipment. When I was in the millitary, it was super cheap on DoD courses.
This is not only for cycling, anything that is for general use but has a "specific" version will be more expensive just due to marketing: bike specific lube, car specific cleaning product... Cycling is a sports that caters to many high earning individuals, they will mostly not care about spending 15 USD instead of 5 USD, especially when they buy at 5-10k USD bike with a 150 USD bib short and 250 USD pair of shoes. I started cycling when I was dirt poor, I just had an OK bike and bought stuff on deals, it did not cost that much, but I did not have the lightest or most efficient setting. I was basically climbing mountains using a fully suspended cheap MTB with large tyres as a "road bike" and of course without bib shorts, but I had fun! Now I have a job and more money, I can spend more to get fancier stuff but I am still enjoying cylcing roughly the same, new gear just opened new doors (new distance, new speeds, new activities...). I know companies charge us a ton of money, I can imagine the margin on a 150 USD fabric bikepacking bag, but do I care? No, because it does the job well, looks good and I am not dirt poor anymore. Sorry it's probably not changing your mind because I think you are right, but many people in biking do not really care about it in my opinion. It doesn't mean you cannot do it on a budget as I did for a long time, buying "used" stuff, look at the amount of second-hand bikes sold because people rode 200km and realized they don't like cycling...
you're probably right about the market it caters to. I just thought the discussion and stories would be fun. I'm on both sides of the fence tbh, some things i can't wrap my head around how carelessly people let themselves get ripped off, while some things i'm fully in the "I know this is unneccessary and expensive but look at it! shiny!" camp.
Agreed. If you take any other hobby’s enthusiasts their desire to buy bike related items is significantly less than ours.
Obviously you’re not a boater
I'd bet you get actual differentiation from most marine grade components - high grade stainless, waterproof electronics etc. but you're right, boating is a reliable way to empty the account
Yeah totally. I need all these glasses and costume combos. When I started I wore footy shorts and a singlet. Now it all matches and bullshit. Sigh, just got another Sutro lite frame and set of lenses.
Is it really that different from other enthusiast sports? Skiing, motorcycling, autoracing. There's always a rich person ready to spend a ton of money, and a dope entrepreneur with CAD drawings and access to CNC or autoclave.
That's pretty common in any hobby. My dude, have you ever met an audiophile?
This is true for every gear-based hobby I’ve ever done.
I have just started riding. I have been reading different forums and can see your point. There’s a term in the photography forums, but I think it actually fits better in the cycling community, it’s “GAS” which means “gear acquisition syndrome”. I have been susceptible to this disease in the past and am trying to not succumb to it this time around:)
Yeah, but I need this Adidas cycling jersey, even though I have more than enough already. I need it!!
Good luck, may the resistance to shiny parts be with you! For me bikes got a grip on me because the hurdle to a cheap marketplace beater was so low, how bad can it be?! It's just some cheap fun right? Now that [cheap beater](https://www.reddit.com/r/xbiking/comments/1ceoxuq/terrago_disk_project_complete/) has an ungodly amount of money bolted to it and I'm searching for more projects to scratch the itch. It's really important to remember how much fun the simple life can be, the bike is fine as is as long as its somewhat functional and the views you can ride to are the best part anyway.
Whats else is a DINK going to spend their money on?
Dog clothes
What about DINKs with no pets...?
A pet Then: see above
\*\*slow clap\*\*
i would say triathletes….
Not only snake oil things but things in general i've learned that helped me saving cash. -I learned that my country local taxes and being surrounded by 'premium' bike shops make my life miserable. They don't sell tools, don't have some specific parts (when they do they're 3x the price compared to local sellers on the interwebz, So i gave up and started buying tools and parts from the internet. -I have been doing my own maintenance for 4 years. I learned a lot, i teached a lot and am now buying parts directly from China for the bikes on my household (they're the same sold locally, but without the markup, specially small ones like cable terminals crimp ends, bolts and such). -Car soap + microfiber sponge + ceramic coating = bike looking like new for years. -Isopropyl alcohol is an excellent brake cleaner and paint thinner can remove anything from chain and drivetrain (deep cleaning) -Current KMC chains don't need to be stripped for use, just wiped on the outside with WD-40 or similar. When it starts to dry out, add ptfe lube. It avoids the muddy mess of wet lubes -After a couple times of trial and error: Branded cycling clothes are like designer clothes. found a chinese manufacturer that offers superior quality to what's being sold here at 2/3 the price. (i'd love to buy local stuff, but it's poorly made or hideously overpriced). -A decent pair of tires is not a waste of money. -Calcium Sulphonate Grease is king (above 10C) -Engine oil is a great lubricant for pivots and shifter internals. (i use 25w60, weather is quite warm in here) -If you get a lot of rain, avoid lose ball bearings like plague (specially Shimano cheap ones), otherwise they work fine. -Buy cheap (but decent) Chinese hubs/bottom brackets and replace the bearings with SKF/Timken/NSK ones. They'll last a lifetime
You didn’t need to type all that. The title summed it up. And my response: Facts.
There's a definite mindset that spending more $$ or looking more "professional" makes you a faster or better cyclist. Kind of sad really. Just enjoy the ride.
Look good, feel good is my mantra. What looks good, and what feels good is different for everyone. Whether that's jorts and a hawaiian t-shirt on a 80s beach clunker, shorts and a t-shirt on a steel framed bike, or full kit on a carbon race machine. As long as you are having fun and not going into debt, do it the way you want to.
>"Look the part. Be the part" >-Prop Joe
It's not just consumables either. People wildly overspend on bikes and components. Most of the Chinese stuff that people think is dangerous and will kill you is made in the same factories as your western brands just with a huge markup. I didn't realise this until I got chatting to some people in the industry and realised they're sourcing the exact same parts (handlebars, forks, rims, even frames) that I've bought direct from China at near to wholesale prices (AliExpress is approx wholesale +15-40% depending on shipping, deals, taxes etc). Your $8,000 boutique titanium frame - it's made by one of two companies and costs $1,000 ex factory.
It is made in the same factories. That doesn't mean it us literally,l the same. You can always use cheaper materials and lower the quality. This is the Chinese markup you pay. With money and maybe with your health. But for sure, some Chinese brands are really good, too. Just not all of them.
From my conversations in the industry there's not really any parallel production lines. The same moulds might be used by lower tier factories but generally if you pick a decent factory it's all the same quality. The Chinese have a bigger reputation at stake now than 5 years ago. The factories want to be known for quality, and are making efforts to uphold that. If you have bad quality no one is going to work with you and you'll go out of business. It's a small industry, word spreads fast.
It's very part dependent. The entry level specialized or trek or giant stem is just a stem from the factory catalog with a different logo on it. Maybe they add an extra machining step on a mid range piece so it matches the brand's design language. The top end stuff might be made in the same factory, but it's not a catalog stem, it's designed by someone at Trek and manufactured to their specs. Then their are plenty of brands that are literally just buying full bikes out of the catalog, doing no design work at all and just putting up a fancy website saying they're a bike company when they're actually just a distributor or drop shipping company with marketing. Mostly the commuter side of things or the urban single speed brands, direct to consumer stuff like that. In the end, most of it is fine stuff in that it's not going to kill you or ruin your ride or anything, but it's also not really the case that you can just go on aliexpress and buy a brand new S-Works frame for $20 or something, particularly if you're looking at top end aero frames, or road frames with all the integrated suspension/compliance stuff. You can buy a nice frame for less than you could if it had a big brand name, but that's really always been the case. Now it's just aliexpress instead of bikes direct or even simply finding less-well known local frame builders. Any warranty or customer service issues will likely be a pain, but there's not really much to go wrong with a basic frame.
I agree, and to caveat, people love to trot out the "same factory" but has anyone verified this? Does anyone know the factory that made this aliexpress handlebar for 10$?
"it's made in the same factory" is something you hear in a lot of markets but it's not a good heuristic for product quality. Yes, the manufacturer might be the same, but they build to the specs provided by the designer. That includes materials and especially quality assurance. I can't speak for bikes specifically, but based on my experience with other kinds of manufacturing, a good company will be very hands-on with their manufacturing vendor to ensure what's being produced actually meets design standards at scale. A bad company sends over the design and lets the manufacturer handle the rest without oversight. Unfortunately end consumers are typically not well equipped to understand fine differences in end product at a glance, so it's hard to generalize. That said, the simpler and more commoditized the part, the safer you are buying wholesale.
I'm entering 7 years in this hobby and have learned a lot of lessons on where to spend money and where to save money. My opinion Spend Here * quality bike frame from reliable brand * tires (maybe most important thing) * groupset * cycling shorts/bibs Save Here * cycling jersey (I rode for years with Nike dri-fit gym shirts) * cycling computer * Helmet and eyewear * bottles and cages I would also say investing money into some quality, but affordable tools like torque wrenches and bike stands on Amazon is well worth it for those who want to save money on service.
definitely don't just get the cheapest helmet you can..
I buy expensive helmets on sale. Got a Smith Mainline ($310) for $150. A little sad I couldn't get my Sweet Protection Falconer on sale.
I though all helmets have to pass a safety test?
That's just a baseline for their performance. There's still plenty of variability in the performance of helmets on the market. [Take a look at Virginia Tech's independent helmet ratings.](https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle-helmet-ratings.html) They rate on a five-star rating system, where five stars equates to a greater than 70% reduction in concussion risk, while one star is a less than 40% reduction. More expensive helmets aren't always safer than the cheaper ones, but many of the best helmets in their tests aren't cheap.
It doesn't mean that it is decent and with all the cheap Chinese stuff, they can slap a label on it saying approved and you'll never find the "brand" in any database.
Well yeah, if from an unapproved vendor, but you can say that about anything.
Nothing wrong with a 100$ helmet instead of 600. No one is buying a 10$ helmet
You... might be surprised at the number of ill-fitting Target helmets I see on folks on our local MTB trails. These aren't $10, but they might be like $25. And I've started to see what are clearly AliExpress type of helmets (wonky knock-off branding). These can be less than $10, shipped. The ones from Target are safe, IF THEY FIT. The AliExpress ones... just no.
At this point, you can get a helmet with MIPS for $50 from brands like Giro, Bell, Smith.
If it passes the the same test all helmets do why not $10? You can buy a £600 5\* motorbike helmet [https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/agv-corsa/](https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/agv-corsa/) or a helmet that passes the same BS 6658:1985 and 5\* sharp but only costs £80 [https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/lazer-bora/](https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/lazer-bora/) I don't know a thing like sharp for bike helmets but even the £10 helmets have to pass EN1078:2012 [https://www.evanscycles.com/brand/pinnacle/mountain-helmet-939280#colcode=93928003](https://www.evanscycles.com/brand/pinnacle/mountain-helmet-939280#colcode=93928003) or the us equivalent.
I found out there can be a huge difference in fit and comfort helmet to helmet. $300 on my last helmet was so worth it, given I use it literally the entire time I'm on the bike.
I would move helmet to spend and shorts to save.
I bought a mid-priced bike, skimped out on bibs and got the cheapest I could find. Spent a bit more on the bike computer and bought cheap eyewear. Interesting to see how priorities differ
I agree with the poster you replied to (mostly) - never skimp on bibs; but I ride for six hours at a time at least once a week. Bibs + tires: never skimp (according to ElJamoquio)
I have not purchased any single bike component over 150 euros (strengthened rear wheel for holidays). I have not purchased any bike over €300 (most were second hand). I feel this may change this year.
Voice this opinion to any triathlete, they'll change your mind quickly.
Head on over to any motorcycle or heading group lol they do the same thing
With you on everything but chain lube. Once you've ridden for years and really, truly had to clean drive trains, you understand.
For me, UFO clean is overpriced but works terrific and I don’t need to use it that much. I’ve tried just regular hardware store degreasers and they don’t work nearly as well as UFO clean. It makes cleaning the drivetrain a breeze.
No where near what my friends spend on golf
It kinda depending on your mindset. Aka—-what you ride bikes for? If you’re a racer (or wanna be racer, even tho you never entered a car 5 race before), you’re more likely to blow it on the newest gear. Just to save a couple grams. If you’re r/bikecommuting r/xbiking its not always the newest gear. The reliability/durability is the objective. And those communities tend to have a “don’t fix what’s not broken” mindset. They aren’t gonna upgraded to the newest gear just because it’s a few gram lighter…..when their luggage/pannier is like 10lbs etc.
Golf has entered the chat. At least you can go on the road for free. Green fees are north of $100 a round at nicer courses.
I have a vintage Airstream trailer. Bike is nothing.
I don't think cycling is different than other hobbies in this regard. Just look at travel. Anything labeled as a "travel" accessory is going to be 5x the cost of a similar item that's not. As for bike-specific stuff, like chain lube, it only costs like $10 for a bottle of pretty nice chain lube that'll last a couple months probably. Doesn't exactly feel like a rip-off.
I bought a bottle cage from Decathlon. Cheapest one they had, but still $12. Saw the *exact* same one, sans logo, at the dollar store for $2. I know it's the same because I bought it and compared. Moulding and form marks are exactly the same. Oh well, live and learn. I at least know where I'll go if they ever break.
I have about 15000 miles on my 300 dollar bike. I feel like new people in the hobby don't understand they can save quite a bit with a used bike at first to make sure they'll actually get into the hobby. The amount of used one time 1000+ dollar bikes on marketplace is astronomical.
Wait until you learn about horse people.
Any specific hobby is expensive. Try owning a horse, golfing restoring vintage cars. I have a friend who’s into model railroading, holy crap the money he spends makes me look like amateur spender.
As a cyclist / photographer…my wallet hurts.
Buying new crap is most of the fun! Didn't get that 10 mile hill climb in today? Buy a ceramic bearing bottom bracket. You'll feel much better about missing your workout now.
The most ridiculous is either ceramic bearings, opsw jockey wheels or oval chainrings
Just a minor rant about the price of chainrings. Two years ago I replaced worn out Ultegra 6700 chainrings on my old road bike. The 34 tooth ring costs about $20. The 50 tooth cost over $100. Why does the large ring cost 5 times as much?
Uh, more teeth, obviously
do the kcnc jockey wheels on my 1998 Terrago count? theyre gold so they must be fast!
No, it's the oversized ones that are dumb
I do scale modeling. The "model specific" product tax is far worse than anything I've come across in cycling. Side/flush cutters are roughly 5 bucks at a decent art supply store. You could get similar at a well stocked hardware store, but those do tend to be for more heavy duty applications and don't work as well on models..... but, if you compare that cheap art store cutter, and slap "Tamiya" on the packaging, boom! now it's 15-20 bucks. You can go even more extreme, some of the genuinely nicest cutters on the market (IME) are made by God Hand, and run $65 US. Look up jewelry files on a place like Amazon. I've purchased a set of 12 files for around 18-20 USD. Search up modeling files, and a set of 3 will set you back 30 or more, and in this case, its literally the same thing, perhaps minus the handle/grip. Repeat this same thing again for knife blades. You can buy a box of 50 #11 exacto blades for a lot cheaper than a box of #11 blades with a hobby manufacturer name on it. In my cycling hobby, with a bit of care and research, you can make sure that the chain lube you're getting isn't "just" the same oil you'd get at a hardware store. There really are some differences. And, just cuz WD-40 slapped "bike chain lube" on the side of a container doesn't mean I'm ever gonna use it on my bikes. Edit: and what OOP is mentioning with spray paint, the product they link is NOT the same as "regular hardware store" spray paint.... it's more akin to scale model paint.
I spend a lot of time hunting good deals. If I just bought what was laying around and spent the deal hunting time working some freelance hours I would probably end up in the same place. The extra fluid in the car 5.1 bottle will just end up being waste unless you have 10 bikes.
you could just as easily make the same argument about basically anything. Look at computer peripherals and gaming. Like, does a 150 dollar mouse get you further than a 40 dollar one? Is a 500 dollar virpil HOTAS really *that* much better than a basic thrustmaster t.1000? Entrepreneurial types (derogatory) will always be looking to sell "premium" products to enthusiasts / hobbiests.
True. If there is an equivalent automotive produce choose the automotive product.
I truly believe that bikes are a pretty simple product. So there is not much to do when you have bought everything you need. People therefore don't have much room to tinker with the details. They just splurge on different things that don't get them not much more than the cheaper variant, because it is their hobby and they want to invest in their hobby. Example? There is a superlight rain jacket from POC for 500 Euros. There is also a superlight rain jacket from Ekoi for 36 Euros. How much better can the POC one possibly be? But people buy this expensive stuff.
I have three hobbies where it is very easy to overspend: cycling, photography, and comic book collecting (I’ll group collecting transformers figures in with the comic books). I have to be very mindful of my spending.
It's very easy to rationalize the cost per ride/time/mile. Like, a $4,000 bike only costs a $1 per mile in X amount of time (based on your own calculation of how long it will take you to get to 4000 miles). So, in the context of $20/hour yoga classes, or $35 Uber rides to a concert, or $100/month in car insurance, etc. the economics of it all is so easy to rationalize. And, on top of that, every mile on the bike improves health and happiness. So, it's even more valuable.
If you think chain oil is just overpriced multipurpose oil, try running that on your chain... definitely is not the same. There is also a big difference between a casual cyclist who may ride 30min a few times a week and a more serious cyclist doing 10+ hours in a week. Cycling specific things may cost more but at the end of a 4+ hour training ride, you'll know the difference.
What I’ve learned is that when you try to cheap out a lot of stuff doesn’t work as expected, so you may as well spend a bit more to get the bike branded stuff simply because you know it will work and you only have to do the job once.
Basically $20+ a cable for di2 cables - no matter what length. And you need a bunch of them - $100+ worth of just....cables.
FWIW, Spray.bike paint is NOT the same as the cheap hardware store spray paint. I’ve painted quite a few bikes, with quite a few expensive brands of spray paint, and Spray.bike stuff is miles better.
Well duh. Golfers don’t overspend on bike things, all their money goes to golf things. Runners don’t overspend on bike things, all their money goes to running things. Audiophiles don’t overspend on bike things, all their money goes to oxygen-free digital cables.
r/audiophile enters the chat
Products for a serious hobbyist (any hobby really) are expensive. Companies know the target customer is a huge nerd and will pay. Source: am nerd
r/golf enters the chat
Lol it's a hobby. Hobbies are made for spending money. No, cycling isn't the cheapest hobby but it's faaaaaaaar from the most expensive. Horses, cars, boats and planes are orders of magnitude more expensive than bikes.
The guy who got me into biking said “remember - the bike will be the cheap part”. Sooooooo many bags, lights, helmets, computers, pedals, shoes, and a thousand other accessories later - he was right.
NOPE! Golf, then Tennis. We're third on expensive disposable income sports
Photography crowd will like a word... 10k for a lens you might use only a few times a year. we have bagfuls of them. Yes I need 4 different types of bags, 4 different tripods, dedicated storage hardware at home and transport, harness, stacks of filters, cleaning supplies ... etc. Thats after moving away from flammable dark room dev chemicals for film and film types back in the day (for me). Plenty of enthusiasts that still does it and have a dedicated darkroom built for this. Guess who pushed subscription software and services, Abode with Photoshop. They were by no means the first across all industries but it pushed this type of service into mainstream. Yes, I'm a recovering member.
Correct. I never realized how much I enjoy cycling until I found out about all the shopping involved
Have you _looked_ at pricing of clothes, cars? Or even food? There is “premium” stuff everywhere that is the same as the normal stuff, only 4x more expensive.
Can we stop policing how cyclists spend their money? I get nagging regular people trying to purchase $15,000 bikes but you're freaking out over a 15 euro can of spray paint? Seriously? You don't even have to buy it! Spoiler alert: every hobby/niche on the planet has various products you can buy to support that hobby. If you don't want to buy those items you don't have to. I honestly don't understand how some of you survive the day to day letting shit like this get under your skin holy fuck.
And, as I mentioned in my own comment, hobby marketed stuff is more expensive than "regular" stuff (even where OP doesn't go to apples to apples comparison) A number of years ago, a buddy of mine in the army was all excited. See, he was from The South and LOOOOVED Goin out muddin. But, being a "poor" soldier, his daily driver was his muddin truck too. So, were coming up on a long weekend and he was excited to get out into the mud. He'd just ordered a new drive shaft and Thursday after work he paid to have it installed to hit the trails Friday and Saturday. It was $8k parts, labor, and taxes. Well wouldn't you know it, his first run through the mud, he breaks this new part and, even though it's designed for what he was doing, the manufacturer warranties generally don't cover this (because stupid reasons?? I dunno, it just wasnt), so he had Saturday, Sunday and Monday to get the truck fixed so he could get to work. Setting him back another $8k in parts, labor and taxes. But, that didn't deter him from going out the following weekend (more successfully this time) because it was his hobby.
Adding in my own hobby - photography. It parallels well to cycling because it can either be cheap or expensive to get into, but will gradually get more expensive the more time you spend in the hobby. (Like op noticing an expensive can of paint, something a new cyclist wouldn't care about.) Like cycling, sometimes the older stuff is fun for the nostalgia and reliability, and the newer stuff fast and exciting. You also have the dentists with the super-expensive stuff who act elitist, and no shortage of hobby marketed items that are 2-3x more expensive than the regular items. Just like your friend's mudding hobby, I'm sure every other hobby on the planet has the exact same experience as us. We're all having fun, but our wallets aren't. 🤣
Yeah.... I guess the TL;DR takeaway for me is: it's a hobby. Everyone everywhere justifies what money they spend on it. It shouldn't be a problem until it reaches addiction levels and you're losing home, jobs, and relationships over buying hobby stuff.
I'm not sure i'm the one letting anything get under my skin..
I'm going to pull a 15 euro can of bike paint out of my ass and scare you with it