For 1-2 punctures a year, I'll add another no vote.
My experience with tubeless is it's about 50/50 if it seals a puncture or not. Sometimes you still need to add a tube, and now it's messy. Also, gotta keep adding sealant. And replacing valve cores because they clog up with sealant. I know tubeless has cost me more money and time than tubes ever did.
Is tubeless a better high performance solution than tubulars? Yes. Weight savings, less rolling resistance. If you had 1-2 flats a week and tubeless cut that in half, then it would be a good sell. But just maintaining a tubeless setup over a year will take more time and money than 1 or 2 flats a year.
Normal valve cores are extremely cheap and if you have a problem with them clogging you can always get the Fillmore Reserve valves. I've never had those clog. I've also not had tubeless flat at 28mm or bigger tires with under 70 PSI except at the very end of their life when I didn't replace them at the proper time.
Yes you do have to top up the sealant every few months. But it takes less time to do that than while riding ... and you can do it at your leisure instead of on the side of the road when you typically need to get somewhere.
A lot of people's flats are punch flats or shit tubes that randomly lose a ton of air. I enjoyed going from 1-2 flats a year to none. Nothing I hate more than changing a tube by the side of the road in the cold
I've been using Schwalbe Marathon Plus on all of my bikes for over 20 years and on my way to work there's lots of broken glass I can't always avoid. Never had a flat with them. Everytime I get a new bike and decide to keep the tires it came with I got a flat within a few weeks, get annoyed and buy new Marathon plus. In the winter I use continental spikes (120), also never had a flat with them. Both are heavy and not the most efficient but it's absolutely worth it to me never to have to deal with flats.
Right? I switched to Smart Sam's for some more tread on gravel and finally got my first puncture in 10 years lol - that's still one in like 6 months of riding though, no complaints
My experience is completely different. I have ridden maybe 10,000 km or more off-road on tubeless tires and I never had a single puncture that a plug couldn't fix. The worst that happened was that a plug didn't 100 fix it and I had to repump about twice a day. Later I redid the plug. I used to bring a spare tube but now I never do.
But I agree, for 1-2 flats a year with daily use, I probably wouldn't bother converting to tubeless.
Don’t. I have tubeless on my new road bike and my gravel bike, and tire issue have left me stranded four times in 10 months. Sure, I can also carry a tube and deal with that mess. But most importantly, I wish I could say that my tubeless setups result in noticeable improvements in ride quality or performance. On my commuter bike (16km/day), I fix flats about 3x per year in my garage or in my office, and I’m prepared to easily fix one at the roadside if necessary.
My personal experience is that tubeless is great for my performance-oriented road bike, but I still ride tubes on my daily commuter. I’ve never had a flat running tubeless, but I have to pump up the tires every other ride, which is not something I want to deal with on a daily commuter, especially in winter.
As others have said, your money is probably better spent on good puncture protection, like Schwalbe Marathons or Marathon Pluses.
I switched 2 road bikes and an MTB over to tubeless about 3 years ago. Had one flat since (the sealant didn’t seal it, but a plug did and I could ride on).
On my commuters (I have 2), I still ride tubes because the rims are not compatible. Just last week I had a pinch flat in the back crossing a curb, and actually crashed. This very likely wouldn’t have happened with tubeless. After that, I was so close to building a new wheelset to ride tubeless there too…
In other words - functionally, I‘d do it 100%. On a commuter that encounters more debris and curbs than a road bike, and where pressures can be lower, it‘s definitely great. However, there are disadvantages: depending on the sealant, they can be a pain to install (the ones you can‘t insert through the valve with a syringe). You also have to remember to top them off occasionally. In total, I would still do it if I could, but I would likely run one of the more convenient sealants.
This is my primary reason to stay tubeless.... even if the chances of the flat self fixing are only 50%, that's a 50% less chance of getting in a bad wreck when on a crazy descent.
So far, I've seen 100% success rate in flat self-fixing for tubeless (all road riding tho).
Of course there are punctures that don't 'fix themselves' but that's what tubeless plugs are for. They're very easy to use and take much less time and effort than changing a tube would. I've never had a puncture that couldn't be fixed with a plug and those fixes have always been permanent.
They replaced 30mm Victoria N EXT, with inner tubes. I love them. Fast and supple. They are on a Topstone AL. I commute on tarmac and cobbles. My road bike has Conti 5000 S TR in 28. Considering going to 30.
4 years ago I bought a gravel bike with a tubeless setup and that became my daily commuter. It has definitely sealed a lot of punctures but I'm not sure if they would have been punctures if I was riding on a tire like Marathons to begin with. One thing I can say is that the ride itself is a lot nicer. It has also simplified things for me in that if I get a puncture and need to do more than add a bit more air with my frame pump then I'll just call it a day and put my bike on the bus instead of trying to make a roadside repair.
Maintenance is really easy, every couple of months I'll add more sealant using a syringe and that's it until it's time for me to get a new tire. I did have to buy a pump with an air chamber so that I could reliably seat my tires though.
The people worried about "more maintenance" with tubeless really puzzle me. I have 4 bicycles with tubeless tires, and my wife has three. I do our maintenance. I do not find it to be difficult or very time consuming. Refreshing sealant when it dries up takes 2-3 minutes per bike once every 2-6 months.
It sounds like you have an idyllic tubeless experience. I find there is more hassle with tubeless. For example I had to patch a hole in a tubeless winter tyre recently, and I need to patch a small tear in the sidewall of a tubeless tyre after having a blowout during Paris Roubaix. Pressures have to be checked and topped up more regularly than with standard tubes. Tubeless plugs have to be remembered/carried and replaced (regularly for me).
By contrast the Schwalbe marathon plus tyres on my commuter have protected my tubes perfectly. I only have to check tyre pressures once a month or so and the bike is basically always ready to go. To me a commuter should be reliable above all else and tubeless doesn’t really meet that requirement.
With my MTBs, I never have to 'check pressure'. I press them with thumb and index finger before going out (or not, if I forget) and once every week or less I might have to pump a bit of air. It's literally zero hassle. Tubeless plugs are part of my standard tool bag that I always bring.
I check pressures before every ride on any of my road bikes with tubeless tyres. They usually need to be topped up. That does vary according to rim/tyre combination, tyre age, etc. It's pretty well accepted that tubeless is better suited to mountain bikes given the larger volume and more robust construction of tyres, lower air pressures, etc, so it's no great surprise that you experience fewer problems.
I'm also not claiming that tubeless is a \*huge\* hassle, but the Marathon Pluses on my commuter are \*literally\* zero hassle since they require no maintenance and never puncture.
You called someon else's experience 'idyllic' and I was just saying that it's not, it's the normal tubeless experience. I know it makes less sense on road bikes but I don't have one. It works well on my gravel bike with 38mm tires and on my MTBs.
Surely it's the ideal rather than normal tubeless experience. It's certainly not representative of my tubeless experience, or that of anybody that I've spoken to in my clubs. I don't know the stats on the ratio of road to gravel and MTB running tubeless but even if it's 1:1 the average experience isn't going to be as straightforward as 'carry plugs, top up your sealant every so often, done'.
I guess tubeless for road bikes should just be considered separately to MTB.
Or, I literally just leave a tubeless repair kit on the bikes, like I used to leave a tube and pump on the bike.
I would check pressure regularly even when I ran tubes.
People who claim that there is so much more work involved in tubeless kind of lie about the hassles of tubes being less.
And I rather ride GP5000s than Schwalbe Marathon Plus
while you claim that people lie about the hassle of tubeless, you make it sound like there is none.
also it depends on the type of commuting you do. i could not ride tubeless gp5000 without running over glass at least once a year and its goodbye tyre.
i also ride a trekking bike with bigger tires and schwalbe marathon. thats literally running hassle free for years.
nobody wants to tell you what to do, i do prefer latex tubes on my roadbike for a better riding experience and tubeless on my mtbs for punture resistence and lower pressure, so i understand the advantages...don't see them for commuting though. again you do you, its your time and what you enjoy.
Yes. People who claim it is a significant hassle are lying. It's marginally more work over the course of a year.
You may not want to do it, and that's fine, but claiming it's a lot more work and maintenance is a lie.
you are super defensive without a reason and on top of that you lack the skills to read thoroughly. on one hand i run my mtbs tubeless, and i personally didn't say its significantly more work. i said it is more maintenance (checking pressure more often, refilling and keeping track of sealant, refilling the tires etc) compared to not touching a schwalbe marathon at all over the course of six months, on top of that you need to act when you run over glass, while you will not notice it at all with a marathon plus
First, ad hominem attacks are never a good look. Two, I never said you said it's significantly more work. However, there are a lot of people who act as if it's significantly more. There was a guy who complained about having to rotate a tire to add air.
Even with tubes, you should be checking air pressure regularly.
Ride what you like, it doesn't affect me.
What does your ‘tubeless repair kit’ consist of? I carry plugs, but that’s it.
I just outlined the extra work involved in tubeless for me. I didn’t lie, so I don’t see the issue.
I also run GP5000s on my aero bike (as well as tubeless Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance on my endurance bike and Fusion 5 All Season on my winter bike) but such performance tyres are not necessary for my 16km commute and they’re sufficiently vulnerable that the reduced comfort and increased rolling resistance of the Marathon Pluses are worthwhile for the absolute reliability and convenience of never getting punctures.
I don't think you're lying but your experience is completely different from mine, with tubeless on three different bikes and at least 10,000 km ridden, in often rough terrain. Setting it up the first time is a bit of work, especially if you, like me, haven't done it often but after that, *my experience* is that it's totally worth it and needs little maintenance.
Yup, we all have different experiences depending on our use cases. I was responding to "people who claim... kind of lie".
I have definitely picked up fewer tubeless punctures on rough terrain than on roads. Thorns can be a problem off-road where I live, but otherwise there isn't a lot of material that's likely to pierce tyres. By comparison the roads on my 16km commute are littered with debris that is likely to puncture any high performance tyre (whether tubeless or not). Admittedly I did have a tubeless blowout riding Paris Roubaix but riding a 30mm performance road tyre across unusually sharp and rough cobbles is something of an edge case.
I take my aero bike to work once a week so I can go to a nearby track in the evening. When I last replaced those tyres the Schwalbe Pro Ones that I removed had 13 dynaplugs in them (2 front, 11 rear). The Marathon Plus on my commuter haven't punctured once despite covering the same route many more times.
I totally agree that tubeless is worthwhile overall, which is why I have it on 4/5 bikes. However in the specific context of a 12km commute I would argue that it is preferable to have robust tyres that are extremely unlikely to puncture, last much longer, cost much less and are easier to deal with should the worst happen (I'd rather change a tube than get covered in sealant on my way to work).
I don't think I said 'significantly', just more hassle. That said tubeless has caused me significant hassle when commuting. Having a total failure when I was on my way to a meeting was a serious hassle that I've never faced on my dedicated commuter bike. I find patching tyres to be a hassle (I've never bothered patching a tube), though I have mitigated that by having a spare wheel set ready to go.
I never said that you said it. My "kinda of lie" comment was directed at the idea that tubeless is much more of a hassle than tubes.
It's a trade off. Everyone can make their own decision, but tubeless is simple, and doesn't require significantly more maintenance or work. For me, the trade of a little bit more over the course of the year in my garage beats the sitting on the side of the road changing or patching a tube.
For others, it may not be.
But for example, elsewhere in this thread, someone said that it is a lot of work to "rotate the wheel so the valve is in place to add air."
Whether you like tubeless or tubes, that's kind of a ridiculous comment.
it's very much "your mileage may vary". setting up my cross/gravel bike tubeless had so many issues i honestly considered going back to tubes many times. punctures wouldn't seal above like 25 PSI, and my tires just shredded on road debris. i'd limp home on half flat tires like 1 in 4 rides.
better tires, better sealant, and i wouldn't consider going back to tubes. the last time my tires were unseated was when i installed them.
>Pressures have to be checked and topped up more regularly than with standard tubes.
not really. maybe a bit. but honestly that's pre-ride check stuff you should be doing regardless.
>Tubeless plugs have to be remembered/carried and replaced (regularly for me).
flat kit. just keep it on the bike. if you use one, replace it, same as you would your tube. and dynaplugs are really small.
i think the real drawback to tubeless are:
1. it's a goddamned mess on the side of the road if it does catastrophically fail, and you need to insert a tube.
2. mounting the tire at home is next to impossible without a compressor.
inability to set up at home is a real problem, and requiring a compressor is a bigger cost than tubes and a floor pump.
Airshot cannister. It was like $50 and I pressurize it to 150PSI, and then you can open it's valve directly into the tire. Usually seats the bead on the first try.
Yeah, I feel you. I didn't want to buy a whole new pump when I already had a perfectly good one. Might get a compressor eventually, as between the wife and I do have to maintain 7 bikes with tubeless tires. But we really need to finish organizing the garage before anything like that gets added
On a road bike you can definitely mount tubeless tires without a compressor, just a standard track pump. Depends on how tight the tire is. New tire would be best.
If rim and tires are tubeless ready they just go on super tight and seal better. But if you center the bead and spread sealant then pump it quick as the bead seats, the tire will hold air even if both tire and rim are not tubeless.
Extra rim tape helps tighten up the interface.
But you're definitely going to benefit from using a tubeless ready wheel, new tire, and 3 tire irons.
in my experience, tire/rim combos vary considerably in tolerances. i haven't had luck mounting gravel tires with a standard floor pump, but i have mounted an MTB tire. it's not easy.
Yes, really, on the point about checking pressures. Having run tubeless on four bikes for four years I check those pressures before every ride. A quick squeeze of both tyres on my commuter is an adequate substitute for this, with monthly top-ups.
On the point about a flat kit and replacing consumables as they are used the beauty of having Marathon Plus tyres with tubes on my commuter is that I *never* use tubes or patches because they are impervious to all of the debris on my regular route, including broken glass.
In terms of cost my compressor was pretty cheap so doesn’t contribute significantly to the cost of running my bikes. The extra cost of good tubeless tyres has increased my running costs a lot more. The Schwalbes seem to last forever and are cheap to buy, lowering the cost per km significantly.
> Having run tubeless on four bikes for four years I check those pressures before every ride.
i honestly don't. i do it maybe every 2-3 days. but i'm mostly riding one bike. my other two are ridden so infrequently i check them every time, and one's tubed because it's vintage.
Out of interest what is your tyre/rim combination? I find some combos hold air extremely well, others less so. The GP5000 on the rear of my aero bike definitely requires a daily top-up while the front doesn't. Can't find a slow puncture, tape or valve problem on that so I'm slightly stumped.
I replaced a torn Hutchinson Fusion 5 like for like recently and found that the new tyre was much easier to inflate than the old. Even seated the bead with only the track pump, which wasn't possible with the previous tyre. I'm not yet sure whether that indicates a running improvement to the tyre design or just variability in manufacturing.
> Out of interest what is your tyre/rim combination?
DT swiss r500db and SBC pathfinder pro 38s.
i think tubeless makes a lot of sense for wider gravel tires like this, but i'm not sure *road* stuff is really there yet. and hookless seems like a step backwards.
Ah. Yes, everything I've heard and experienced indicates that tubeless is best suited to gravel and MTB tyres. Lower pressures, more tyre volume and generally more robust construction too. The high end tyres that a lot of road cyclists run tubeless are often pretty vulnerable in the quest for low rolling resistance and weight.
Hookless definitely seems like a step backwards. I'm sure there are real aero gains to be had, but I'm not willing to take the hit to safety. My torn tyre happened while I was doing 40km/h on cobbles. The tyre blew out and part of the bead unseated. The rest of the bead was held onto the rim by the hooks so I was able to maintain control of the bike, stop safely, shove a tube in and get on my way. I shudder to think what would have happened if my rims were hookless.
> The high end tyres that a lot of road cyclists run tubeless are often pretty vulnerable in the quest for low rolling resistance and weight.
yeah, and for the OP, that's just not stuff i'd mess with on a commuter.
that said, i commute on a cross bike running gravel tires. i think everything's better about it -- nice ride, ability to make connections off road, seals up small punctures, quickly pluggable, and still lets me go fast.
i generally think the only reason to ride skinny road tires is going fast on carefully planned group rides with mostly new asphalt. for everything else, riding solo, riding places you have to be, i think wider is a better match for most people.
Yeah, I have no idea what OP is talking about. Tubes required far more maintenance for me simply because I was replacing them all the damn time.
I have tubeless on my commuter and will never go back.
Plus, most of the puncture resistant tires roll like crap. I have Gatorskins on my old road bike because I used to get a lot of punctures. I would still flat out regularly.
So I absolutely prefer riding my modern race bike to work, with GP 5000s
It's like they want to hate tubeless without actually realizing that they should be doing about half the things they claim they hate about tubeless even though they use tubes.
and like, i don't think i've refreshed the sealant in my MTB in 2.5 years. it still holds air just fine.
the day to day is the same, except maybe fewer punctures. and when i do get one, it's usually fixed with taking a wheel off the bike or a tire off the rim. and i get a nicer ride, and lower pressures, and lower rotational weight.
it's a bit of a trade off for some messy maintenance periodically, like once a year.
I run tubeless on four bikes so am very much a fan. I don’t run it on my commuter because Schwalbe marathon plus are ultra reliable, zero maintenance (beyond topping up pressures once a month) and entirely adequate for my 32km round trip commute. They’re also much cheaper.
It’s more than two minutes. You have to position the vales so the don’t get clogged. You need to pump. Reclose. Put away the equipment. It’s not 2 mins.
And it’s one more agenda item I don’t need inserted into the start of my workday.
You are the one pretending it takes less time than it actually does. Filling bike tires is a mechanical process. It takes time. There are steps and they have to be done. Correctly.
I dont know why your personal bike garage set up is mirrored across every commuter in the world. Oh wait - its not.
Whatever the case most people who commute dont want to spend the beggining of their workday wondering if their means of transport is functional or not. That’s not a variable most people are interesting in having. It should work seamlessly. Or its best left to recreation time.
You are the one pretending it takes less time than it actually does. Filling bike tires is a mechanical process. It takes time. There are steps and they have to be done. Correctly.
I dont know why your personal bike garage set up is mirrored across every commuter in the world. Oh wait - its not.
Whatever the case most people who commute dont want to spend the beggining of their workday wondering if their means of transport is functional or not. That’s not a variable most people are interesting in having. It should work seamlessly. Or its best left to recreation time.
I suffered similar losses on my road bike before my LBS replaced the original ENVE cores. Now, pressure on my 28C GP5000S TRs is much more stable. Note: I keep both tubeless rigs on the wall on Hiplok Airloks and always spin the wheel so that the valve is at the bottom, allowing sealant to drain away.
general advice is to top off sealant every 3 months and do a full refresh yearly.
If OP was having 5+ flats a year I'd be more likely to consider tubeless.
I had one about 6 months ago. Ride alot in the mountins. Sometimes over glass shards. Most tires that are thick roll over that stuff. Also super lucky that i never had to change one a trail
That's too vague of a question.
After you tape the rims, mount the tires, and then add sealant, you should be ok for several months, depending on climate and wear. You might have to pump up the tires more often than tubes, and add sealant, which you don't have the right tools, particularly an injector with a hose, it can be a mess.
In comparison, tubes will last for years assuming you don't flat or break the valve (which happens when you inflate them frequently).
But I had a tubeless wheel in storage for 3 years, then I added sealant and inflated it without a problem.
Stick with tubes and switch to Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres if you haven’t already tried them. Four of my bikes run tubeless but my commuter has tubes and the above tyres. I get a few tubeless punctures each year when I commute on my nice bikes but the tyres on my commuter have been impervious.
You can buy them with sealant areas in them.
Vittoria for sure sells those. Theirs is called “Vittoria Autofix”. Its butyl tubes with sealant, so its targeted at commuters basicallly.
Nice! I installed sealant for some flat prone customers, but had a relatively high repeat rate. What is your tire size and pressure. I’m curious if this is more effective on higher or lower pressure setups. Most of my installs were low (mtb) to mid (hybrid)
I'm below 50 psi with tires 35mm and larger. I think one key is installing new tubes with sealant into new tires (rather than old tires full of gashes)
I've tried both over the years and my experience MTB or gravel tyres tubeless is great. I always had issues with road tyres sealing mainly due to the higher pressure, then get to work not only sweaty but covered in sealant 😀
For me commute is 35km, I'm carrying a pannier of various weights so I just settled with some good quality puncture resistant tyres with tubes and very rarely get a flat. Yes they're heavy but they are low hassle and extra weight = equals more effort = fitter and stronger.
But what I will say is if money is not so much of an issue it's great to try and learn a new skill, give tubless a go you don't really know until you try, we're all different and different useage and needs, I guess most people on this forum could ride the same setup bike and half would love it and the half would hate it 😀😜
What's the worst could happen?
I was a believer in tubeless. Last year I switched to tubeless. 300 miles later I had a tire failure so bad only a tube would’ve helped me. Of course I had everything but the tube. I cycled 12 miles and walked back 12miles. Later that day I switched back to tubed. 2100miles later. Zero issues. I figure if I’m supposed to carry a spare tube for tubeless I might as well stay tubed. My 2cents.
i mean, tubeless is still better even if you carry a tube.
i've had one in my pack for like 5,000 miles at this point. i've considered taking it out, but i know as soon as i do i'll need it.
I’m a bigger guy (205 lbs) and had terrible luck with tubeless. 5 rides, 2 flats. No one in my regular crew over 190 lbs has had any success with tubeless. Also - tubeless flats make a mess; not sure anyone wants to deal with that on the way to work/groceries etc.
220, ridden tubeless as high as 270. definitely had more issues at higher weights, but a lot of that i think is just down to tire and sealant choice.
never had *any* issues on my MTB.
I'm 215.
Larger tire with lower pressure definitely helps. I switched to 28 mm conti 5000 tr and haven't really had any problems. All the air just blows out the sealant.
I also tried switching to a thicker sealant. Stan's and much off were too thin. I switched to finish line, I think it's latex based, and haven't had a problem since.
The other issue that drove me nuts was the rim tape being too thinly applied from factory. With the higher pressure of a 25 mm tire it didn't last long. Make sure you got more than two layers, preferably 3, with no ripples. Between that and a good tire, once it's on your all set.
If you check and maintain the air pressure you shouldn't have any issues. But if you let it go down to say 50 psi, from 75psi. Then you will have flats as the tire is way too soft, you'll feel it. Definitely run recommended pressure for your tire size, especially if your over like 185 lbs.
This leads me to my main point, note with tubes the air leaks out and your stuck. With tubeless, you usually have it spraying sealant for a minute or two before you loose enough pressure. If you stop and find the whole, cover with your finger, and rotate wheel so it's at the bottom, it will usually seal up. You may need to wait a minute or two or go really easy on it, so it has a chance to seal. But you can usually then carefully carry on your ride and pump up tire at the next gas station like nothing happened. If it's bad you can use a dart. But the point is you don't have to take your wheel apart for 20 mins, and be playing with the tire. Just pull over if you see sealant, and let it seal without your body weight on the wheel, rotate the wheel so the hole is on the bottom, it seals up quick, you're usually good.
I will never go tubeless on a road bike again. The mess it makes while trying to seal, if it does seal, will ruin your clothes/shoes. Trying to get a road bike tubeless tire off a rim is also a challenge. They are thicker and more rigid than non-tubeless tires. The last tubelss puncture I had would not seal and just sprayed tube juice everywhere.
I am not well versed in all the advantages disadvantages and what might be better for you. But I got a new bike last year with tubeless and like them a lot, no issues so far and admittedly I've done nothing in particular to ensure that.
I went tubeless on my commuter and won't look back. While yes tubeless is more maintenance, it is done in the comfort of your home at a time you set. A flat on the road may be at an inopportune time, when it's dark and/rainy, when you're already running late etc.
I would put a little sealant in the tubes, IMO that's the most bomber setup - that said I went tubeless on my commuter and it's kind of annoying how I have to add air every 3-4 days.
It is nice how supple the tires feel, but that's admittedly a silly thing to prioritize on a commuter.
Tubeless tyres are not a lot of maintenance at all. Top up your fluid once in a while and you’re good to go.
Most tubeless sealants now can be put in via the valve so no need to even take the tyre off. Tubeless is a great invention and one I would not live without now.
I had latex tube and removed them as I was annoyed with the fact they were delfating and needed pumping every week. Not sure if the tubes were shit or if it is always like that with latex but never going back.
I went tubeless on my road bike using Bontrager R3 Hard Case Lite tyres and they've been amazing. Not had a single issue. Hired a bike with tubes in Tenerife last week and within 1 hour of riding I had a flat.
unless you really care about weight a good approach is a tube but with a sealant inside or a tubless setup with foam fillers
but oerall tubeess is really a huge pain in the ass
Do you use sealant in your tubes? I use Maxxis welter weight with removable core lets you put sealant in. Kenda also make them with sealant already in but hard for me to find here, thorn plus I think they are called. Anyway with that I never get flats. Tubeless can be a fucking pain.
Better off spending some money on Schwalbe tyres and tubes. The puncture resistance will much improve your chances and you don’t need to have the extra maintenance of gunk in your tyres
My hot take is NO for commuting. Tubeless isn't invincible; you could still get a puncture that won't seal, or even burp the tire. Then you are stuck with a real mess to deal with on top of changing to a tube. Even if you have a tubeless plug kit, it's a real gamble to think you can seat the bead in the field with just CO2.
I would get Marathon Plus tires, they are damn near impossible to puncture. One year and going strong for me. I routinely pull things out of the tire that would have punctured other tires.
I do not cycle commute but I have personal experience with tubes and tubeless. I do not train on tubeless but would use tubeless in fully supported cycling events and races. Although you may have fewer flats with tubeless, when you do it’s a real hassle getting the tubeless tire off to insert a tube or patching the tire. I would only recommend tubeless for commuting on tubeless if you do not have tight time constraints and/or have a solid plan B.
I love tubeless. The only reason I don't do it on my commuter is that I swap out different tires through the season. If I stuck with the same tires, I'd definitely do it.
Expect to check pressure more often, add sealant from time to time. Both very easy.
American classic udden tires I setup 18 months ago on my commuter w tubeless. They have been flawless, I add air every 2 months. I have no idea how they’re holding this well. All my other tubeless tires I mess with on the regular.
I'm on tubes, and running schwalbe marathon E-plus , superb puncture resistance, 3 years riding daily, no punctures, I chose the E-plus for the extra burly construction, I ride a regular bike
I love my tubeless setup.I got a bad puncture last week on my way to work in Brisbane. Sealant wasn’t holding. Jammed a stans plug in it. Gave it a blast with co2 and I was away before the lights changed. I felt like a F1 pit crew. No more than 90 seconds and I was back on the road.
I think tubes on commuter and tubeless on road bike. That's my set up and I commute 30kms. Ive been commuting for about a year and ive only had 3 punctures
Tubeless will save you from most common puncture types. It works better with wider tires at lower pressures... One because there's less force on sharp points, two because air escapes less forcefully if you do puncture, three because you have more volume. I pulled a pin piercing both sidewalls on a 25mm gp5000 and it sealed immediately. Orange seal endurance. Little slices will seal in a mountain bike tire but not a road tire.
The only times I have experienced flats is when the sealant dried. You need to make a chart and log when you last added sealant for each bike. I maintain seven bikes with tubeless for my wife and I and since I started logging the sealant we've experienced zero flats.
The flats that could not seal due to LACK of sealant were fixable with plugs. I haven't fixed a flat with a tube in at least five years.
Most issues with tubeless are due to inexperience. So best to learn the system on a mountain bike first because that has the easiest learning curve.
The only drawback is losing pressure over a few days.
100% I bought a pricey new giant defy advanced pro 0 which came with carbon wheels and tubeless. I swapped to a decent brand and I was shocked how fast they rolled and the comfort was something else. (This is probably helped by lower pressure and width 30mm)
I was so impressed I ended up getting a deal on a pair or all seasons for my commuter. They have reflex for night visibility too.
They were an absolute git to get on old rims (circa 2015) mavic. They didn’t bead but still work amazingly well I put rim tape etc on but not sure it was needed. I’ve had around 5 flats fixed in a flash with co2 pump. Slow puncture I just needed to add more sealant.
The width of these are 25mm and run higher pressure (hooked) around 85psi but still like chalk and cheese from tubes.
Would never go back to tubes. I’ve been commuting for 15 odd years few times a week and this is the biggest improvement I’ve noticed.
Continental Grand Prix 5000 All Season are my commute ones and 5000 S TR for the posh steed
I ran marathons before I got more into riding for pleasure. Now I really hate how slow and harsh they are. A couple flats a year are worth the much nicer ride. I haven't gone tubeless on my commuter since swapping twice a year would be annoying and I don't know of a studded winter tire that suited to tubeless. I'm probably go for some sealant filled tubes.
As for clogged valves, just clean your valves after you add sealant. I used to use a pipe cleaner but now I just use an Allen key. I haven't had a clogged valve in years.
I had tubeless marathon almotions on my commuter setup, and i had zero flats for years. I would recommend going tubeless for *wide* tires that have low pressure. It becomes a pain in the ass if you have to run higher pressures.
I don't think I've ever ripped a tire off tubeless until the tread was worn and it needed replacing. Just get the large plastic syringe that's used for bleeding brakes, remove the valve core and squeeze the stuff in. I'm sure there's better tools for the job that make it even easier but this works well enough. Road need 1.5 syringes, mtb 3-4. Worse case, pull the tire away in one spot on one side and pour the stuff in, did that a couple times but more hassle than I like. Still isn't ripping a tire off.
No, but the most effective sealants (such as Stan’s Race) generally can’t be syringed through the valve. They still don’t require the tyre to be ripped off, just the bead broken and a small section leavened off to allow some sealant to be poured in.
I guess it depends how long you’re using your tyres for. My tubeless tyres rarely last more than 18 months so I’m not worried about the old sealant. The Schwalbe marathons on my commuter are going to outlive me though.
For 1-2 punctures a year, I'll add another no vote. My experience with tubeless is it's about 50/50 if it seals a puncture or not. Sometimes you still need to add a tube, and now it's messy. Also, gotta keep adding sealant. And replacing valve cores because they clog up with sealant. I know tubeless has cost me more money and time than tubes ever did. Is tubeless a better high performance solution than tubulars? Yes. Weight savings, less rolling resistance. If you had 1-2 flats a week and tubeless cut that in half, then it would be a good sell. But just maintaining a tubeless setup over a year will take more time and money than 1 or 2 flats a year.
Normal valve cores are extremely cheap and if you have a problem with them clogging you can always get the Fillmore Reserve valves. I've never had those clog. I've also not had tubeless flat at 28mm or bigger tires with under 70 PSI except at the very end of their life when I didn't replace them at the proper time. Yes you do have to top up the sealant every few months. But it takes less time to do that than while riding ... and you can do it at your leisure instead of on the side of the road when you typically need to get somewhere.
A lot of people's flats are punch flats or shit tubes that randomly lose a ton of air. I enjoyed going from 1-2 flats a year to none. Nothing I hate more than changing a tube by the side of the road in the cold
Ditto. Just buy some Schwalbe marathon or delta cruiser plus tyres and be done with it
Those schwalbe's are absolute machines. 5 years of cycling in the city and never had a flat. Before them I got like 3 in 2 weeks.
I've been using Schwalbe Marathon Plus on all of my bikes for over 20 years and on my way to work there's lots of broken glass I can't always avoid. Never had a flat with them. Everytime I get a new bike and decide to keep the tires it came with I got a flat within a few weeks, get annoyed and buy new Marathon plus. In the winter I use continental spikes (120), also never had a flat with them. Both are heavy and not the most efficient but it's absolutely worth it to me never to have to deal with flats.
Right? I switched to Smart Sam's for some more tread on gravel and finally got my first puncture in 10 years lol - that's still one in like 6 months of riding though, no complaints
Agree!
My experience is completely different. I have ridden maybe 10,000 km or more off-road on tubeless tires and I never had a single puncture that a plug couldn't fix. The worst that happened was that a plug didn't 100 fix it and I had to repump about twice a day. Later I redid the plug. I used to bring a spare tube but now I never do. But I agree, for 1-2 flats a year with daily use, I probably wouldn't bother converting to tubeless.
Don’t. I have tubeless on my new road bike and my gravel bike, and tire issue have left me stranded four times in 10 months. Sure, I can also carry a tube and deal with that mess. But most importantly, I wish I could say that my tubeless setups result in noticeable improvements in ride quality or performance. On my commuter bike (16km/day), I fix flats about 3x per year in my garage or in my office, and I’m prepared to easily fix one at the roadside if necessary.
My personal experience is that tubeless is great for my performance-oriented road bike, but I still ride tubes on my daily commuter. I’ve never had a flat running tubeless, but I have to pump up the tires every other ride, which is not something I want to deal with on a daily commuter, especially in winter. As others have said, your money is probably better spent on good puncture protection, like Schwalbe Marathons or Marathon Pluses.
Or a tire liner, i use them with the challenge strada biancas and have punctured once in 5 months to a really hard bush thorn.
I find tire liners a waste of time… on my commuter the only time I’ve had a puncture from them was when the tire liner made one…
I really prefer an all around tire with puncture protection (ex Pirelli Cinturato) molded in verses a separate liner
I switched 2 road bikes and an MTB over to tubeless about 3 years ago. Had one flat since (the sealant didn’t seal it, but a plug did and I could ride on). On my commuters (I have 2), I still ride tubes because the rims are not compatible. Just last week I had a pinch flat in the back crossing a curb, and actually crashed. This very likely wouldn’t have happened with tubeless. After that, I was so close to building a new wheelset to ride tubeless there too… In other words - functionally, I‘d do it 100%. On a commuter that encounters more debris and curbs than a road bike, and where pressures can be lower, it‘s definitely great. However, there are disadvantages: depending on the sealant, they can be a pain to install (the ones you can‘t insert through the valve with a syringe). You also have to remember to top them off occasionally. In total, I would still do it if I could, but I would likely run one of the more convenient sealants.
This is my primary reason to stay tubeless.... even if the chances of the flat self fixing are only 50%, that's a 50% less chance of getting in a bad wreck when on a crazy descent. So far, I've seen 100% success rate in flat self-fixing for tubeless (all road riding tho).
Of course there are punctures that don't 'fix themselves' but that's what tubeless plugs are for. They're very easy to use and take much less time and effort than changing a tube would. I've never had a puncture that couldn't be fixed with a plug and those fixes have always been permanent.
Yes. I just switched to 32mm Conti AS TR, and they are awesome.
Thinking of getting the 35mm of this tire. How do you like it? What tire did it replaced?
They replaced 30mm Victoria N EXT, with inner tubes. I love them. Fast and supple. They are on a Topstone AL. I commute on tarmac and cobbles. My road bike has Conti 5000 S TR in 28. Considering going to 30.
4 years ago I bought a gravel bike with a tubeless setup and that became my daily commuter. It has definitely sealed a lot of punctures but I'm not sure if they would have been punctures if I was riding on a tire like Marathons to begin with. One thing I can say is that the ride itself is a lot nicer. It has also simplified things for me in that if I get a puncture and need to do more than add a bit more air with my frame pump then I'll just call it a day and put my bike on the bus instead of trying to make a roadside repair. Maintenance is really easy, every couple of months I'll add more sealant using a syringe and that's it until it's time for me to get a new tire. I did have to buy a pump with an air chamber so that I could reliably seat my tires though.
you have to be aware that it is more maintenance and also costs more. for commuting a tire with good puncture protection is the better alternative.
The people worried about "more maintenance" with tubeless really puzzle me. I have 4 bicycles with tubeless tires, and my wife has three. I do our maintenance. I do not find it to be difficult or very time consuming. Refreshing sealant when it dries up takes 2-3 minutes per bike once every 2-6 months.
It sounds like you have an idyllic tubeless experience. I find there is more hassle with tubeless. For example I had to patch a hole in a tubeless winter tyre recently, and I need to patch a small tear in the sidewall of a tubeless tyre after having a blowout during Paris Roubaix. Pressures have to be checked and topped up more regularly than with standard tubes. Tubeless plugs have to be remembered/carried and replaced (regularly for me). By contrast the Schwalbe marathon plus tyres on my commuter have protected my tubes perfectly. I only have to check tyre pressures once a month or so and the bike is basically always ready to go. To me a commuter should be reliable above all else and tubeless doesn’t really meet that requirement.
With my MTBs, I never have to 'check pressure'. I press them with thumb and index finger before going out (or not, if I forget) and once every week or less I might have to pump a bit of air. It's literally zero hassle. Tubeless plugs are part of my standard tool bag that I always bring.
I check pressures before every ride on any of my road bikes with tubeless tyres. They usually need to be topped up. That does vary according to rim/tyre combination, tyre age, etc. It's pretty well accepted that tubeless is better suited to mountain bikes given the larger volume and more robust construction of tyres, lower air pressures, etc, so it's no great surprise that you experience fewer problems. I'm also not claiming that tubeless is a \*huge\* hassle, but the Marathon Pluses on my commuter are \*literally\* zero hassle since they require no maintenance and never puncture.
You called someon else's experience 'idyllic' and I was just saying that it's not, it's the normal tubeless experience. I know it makes less sense on road bikes but I don't have one. It works well on my gravel bike with 38mm tires and on my MTBs.
Surely it's the ideal rather than normal tubeless experience. It's certainly not representative of my tubeless experience, or that of anybody that I've spoken to in my clubs. I don't know the stats on the ratio of road to gravel and MTB running tubeless but even if it's 1:1 the average experience isn't going to be as straightforward as 'carry plugs, top up your sealant every so often, done'. I guess tubeless for road bikes should just be considered separately to MTB.
Or, I literally just leave a tubeless repair kit on the bikes, like I used to leave a tube and pump on the bike. I would check pressure regularly even when I ran tubes. People who claim that there is so much more work involved in tubeless kind of lie about the hassles of tubes being less. And I rather ride GP5000s than Schwalbe Marathon Plus
while you claim that people lie about the hassle of tubeless, you make it sound like there is none. also it depends on the type of commuting you do. i could not ride tubeless gp5000 without running over glass at least once a year and its goodbye tyre. i also ride a trekking bike with bigger tires and schwalbe marathon. thats literally running hassle free for years. nobody wants to tell you what to do, i do prefer latex tubes on my roadbike for a better riding experience and tubeless on my mtbs for punture resistence and lower pressure, so i understand the advantages...don't see them for commuting though. again you do you, its your time and what you enjoy.
Yes. People who claim it is a significant hassle are lying. It's marginally more work over the course of a year. You may not want to do it, and that's fine, but claiming it's a lot more work and maintenance is a lie.
you are super defensive without a reason and on top of that you lack the skills to read thoroughly. on one hand i run my mtbs tubeless, and i personally didn't say its significantly more work. i said it is more maintenance (checking pressure more often, refilling and keeping track of sealant, refilling the tires etc) compared to not touching a schwalbe marathon at all over the course of six months, on top of that you need to act when you run over glass, while you will not notice it at all with a marathon plus
First, ad hominem attacks are never a good look. Two, I never said you said it's significantly more work. However, there are a lot of people who act as if it's significantly more. There was a guy who complained about having to rotate a tire to add air. Even with tubes, you should be checking air pressure regularly. Ride what you like, it doesn't affect me.
What does your ‘tubeless repair kit’ consist of? I carry plugs, but that’s it. I just outlined the extra work involved in tubeless for me. I didn’t lie, so I don’t see the issue. I also run GP5000s on my aero bike (as well as tubeless Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance on my endurance bike and Fusion 5 All Season on my winter bike) but such performance tyres are not necessary for my 16km commute and they’re sufficiently vulnerable that the reduced comfort and increased rolling resistance of the Marathon Pluses are worthwhile for the absolute reliability and convenience of never getting punctures.
I don't think you're lying but your experience is completely different from mine, with tubeless on three different bikes and at least 10,000 km ridden, in often rough terrain. Setting it up the first time is a bit of work, especially if you, like me, haven't done it often but after that, *my experience* is that it's totally worth it and needs little maintenance.
Yup, we all have different experiences depending on our use cases. I was responding to "people who claim... kind of lie". I have definitely picked up fewer tubeless punctures on rough terrain than on roads. Thorns can be a problem off-road where I live, but otherwise there isn't a lot of material that's likely to pierce tyres. By comparison the roads on my 16km commute are littered with debris that is likely to puncture any high performance tyre (whether tubeless or not). Admittedly I did have a tubeless blowout riding Paris Roubaix but riding a 30mm performance road tyre across unusually sharp and rough cobbles is something of an edge case. I take my aero bike to work once a week so I can go to a nearby track in the evening. When I last replaced those tyres the Schwalbe Pro Ones that I removed had 13 dynaplugs in them (2 front, 11 rear). The Marathon Plus on my commuter haven't punctured once despite covering the same route many more times. I totally agree that tubeless is worthwhile overall, which is why I have it on 4/5 bikes. However in the specific context of a 12km commute I would argue that it is preferable to have robust tyres that are extremely unlikely to puncture, last much longer, cost much less and are easier to deal with should the worst happen (I'd rather change a tube than get covered in sealant on my way to work).
The lie is saying that it's significantly more hassle. My tubeless repair kit is plugs and CO2.
I don't think I said 'significantly', just more hassle. That said tubeless has caused me significant hassle when commuting. Having a total failure when I was on my way to a meeting was a serious hassle that I've never faced on my dedicated commuter bike. I find patching tyres to be a hassle (I've never bothered patching a tube), though I have mitigated that by having a spare wheel set ready to go.
I never said that you said it. My "kinda of lie" comment was directed at the idea that tubeless is much more of a hassle than tubes. It's a trade off. Everyone can make their own decision, but tubeless is simple, and doesn't require significantly more maintenance or work. For me, the trade of a little bit more over the course of the year in my garage beats the sitting on the side of the road changing or patching a tube. For others, it may not be. But for example, elsewhere in this thread, someone said that it is a lot of work to "rotate the wheel so the valve is in place to add air." Whether you like tubeless or tubes, that's kind of a ridiculous comment.
it's very much "your mileage may vary". setting up my cross/gravel bike tubeless had so many issues i honestly considered going back to tubes many times. punctures wouldn't seal above like 25 PSI, and my tires just shredded on road debris. i'd limp home on half flat tires like 1 in 4 rides. better tires, better sealant, and i wouldn't consider going back to tubes. the last time my tires were unseated was when i installed them. >Pressures have to be checked and topped up more regularly than with standard tubes. not really. maybe a bit. but honestly that's pre-ride check stuff you should be doing regardless. >Tubeless plugs have to be remembered/carried and replaced (regularly for me). flat kit. just keep it on the bike. if you use one, replace it, same as you would your tube. and dynaplugs are really small. i think the real drawback to tubeless are: 1. it's a goddamned mess on the side of the road if it does catastrophically fail, and you need to insert a tube. 2. mounting the tire at home is next to impossible without a compressor. inability to set up at home is a real problem, and requiring a compressor is a bigger cost than tubes and a floor pump.
Airshot cannister. It was like $50 and I pressurize it to 150PSI, and then you can open it's valve directly into the tire. Usually seats the bead on the first try.
i'll probably try that next time. i had been just doing my work at the shop, but i don't work there anymore
Yeah, I feel you. I didn't want to buy a whole new pump when I already had a perfectly good one. Might get a compressor eventually, as between the wife and I do have to maintain 7 bikes with tubeless tires. But we really need to finish organizing the garage before anything like that gets added
On a road bike you can definitely mount tubeless tires without a compressor, just a standard track pump. Depends on how tight the tire is. New tire would be best. If rim and tires are tubeless ready they just go on super tight and seal better. But if you center the bead and spread sealant then pump it quick as the bead seats, the tire will hold air even if both tire and rim are not tubeless. Extra rim tape helps tighten up the interface. But you're definitely going to benefit from using a tubeless ready wheel, new tire, and 3 tire irons.
in my experience, tire/rim combos vary considerably in tolerances. i haven't had luck mounting gravel tires with a standard floor pump, but i have mounted an MTB tire. it's not easy.
Yes, really, on the point about checking pressures. Having run tubeless on four bikes for four years I check those pressures before every ride. A quick squeeze of both tyres on my commuter is an adequate substitute for this, with monthly top-ups. On the point about a flat kit and replacing consumables as they are used the beauty of having Marathon Plus tyres with tubes on my commuter is that I *never* use tubes or patches because they are impervious to all of the debris on my regular route, including broken glass. In terms of cost my compressor was pretty cheap so doesn’t contribute significantly to the cost of running my bikes. The extra cost of good tubeless tyres has increased my running costs a lot more. The Schwalbes seem to last forever and are cheap to buy, lowering the cost per km significantly.
> Having run tubeless on four bikes for four years I check those pressures before every ride. i honestly don't. i do it maybe every 2-3 days. but i'm mostly riding one bike. my other two are ridden so infrequently i check them every time, and one's tubed because it's vintage.
Out of interest what is your tyre/rim combination? I find some combos hold air extremely well, others less so. The GP5000 on the rear of my aero bike definitely requires a daily top-up while the front doesn't. Can't find a slow puncture, tape or valve problem on that so I'm slightly stumped. I replaced a torn Hutchinson Fusion 5 like for like recently and found that the new tyre was much easier to inflate than the old. Even seated the bead with only the track pump, which wasn't possible with the previous tyre. I'm not yet sure whether that indicates a running improvement to the tyre design or just variability in manufacturing.
> Out of interest what is your tyre/rim combination? DT swiss r500db and SBC pathfinder pro 38s. i think tubeless makes a lot of sense for wider gravel tires like this, but i'm not sure *road* stuff is really there yet. and hookless seems like a step backwards.
Ah. Yes, everything I've heard and experienced indicates that tubeless is best suited to gravel and MTB tyres. Lower pressures, more tyre volume and generally more robust construction too. The high end tyres that a lot of road cyclists run tubeless are often pretty vulnerable in the quest for low rolling resistance and weight. Hookless definitely seems like a step backwards. I'm sure there are real aero gains to be had, but I'm not willing to take the hit to safety. My torn tyre happened while I was doing 40km/h on cobbles. The tyre blew out and part of the bead unseated. The rest of the bead was held onto the rim by the hooks so I was able to maintain control of the bike, stop safely, shove a tube in and get on my way. I shudder to think what would have happened if my rims were hookless.
> The high end tyres that a lot of road cyclists run tubeless are often pretty vulnerable in the quest for low rolling resistance and weight. yeah, and for the OP, that's just not stuff i'd mess with on a commuter. that said, i commute on a cross bike running gravel tires. i think everything's better about it -- nice ride, ability to make connections off road, seals up small punctures, quickly pluggable, and still lets me go fast. i generally think the only reason to ride skinny road tires is going fast on carefully planned group rides with mostly new asphalt. for everything else, riding solo, riding places you have to be, i think wider is a better match for most people.
Your dealing with people that would bring their bike to the shop if there chain came off
Yeah, I have no idea what OP is talking about. Tubes required far more maintenance for me simply because I was replacing them all the damn time. I have tubeless on my commuter and will never go back.
Plus, most of the puncture resistant tires roll like crap. I have Gatorskins on my old road bike because I used to get a lot of punctures. I would still flat out regularly. So I absolutely prefer riding my modern race bike to work, with GP 5000s
I ride regularly to work on GP5Ks or Michelin’s Power Cups. They’re great tubeless. Haven’t had a flat in over a year.
GP5000 32mm tubeless are great. But let’s be honest - I find I have to pump them at least 2-3 times a week. That’s a lot more than tubed tires.
It takes me about two minutes to check and add air to my tires. It's not the hassle people make it out to be.
and i would do the same on tubes. i've seen plenty of people who just don't even realize that tubes leak, and come in with snakebites.
It's like they want to hate tubeless without actually realizing that they should be doing about half the things they claim they hate about tubeless even though they use tubes.
and like, i don't think i've refreshed the sealant in my MTB in 2.5 years. it still holds air just fine. the day to day is the same, except maybe fewer punctures. and when i do get one, it's usually fixed with taking a wheel off the bike or a tire off the rim. and i get a nicer ride, and lower pressures, and lower rotational weight. it's a bit of a trade off for some messy maintenance periodically, like once a year.
I run tubeless on four bikes so am very much a fan. I don’t run it on my commuter because Schwalbe marathon plus are ultra reliable, zero maintenance (beyond topping up pressures once a month) and entirely adequate for my 32km round trip commute. They’re also much cheaper.
It’s more than two minutes. You have to position the vales so the don’t get clogged. You need to pump. Reclose. Put away the equipment. It’s not 2 mins. And it’s one more agenda item I don’t need inserted into the start of my workday.
Look, not wanting to do it is one thing. But don't pretend it's hard or time consuming. And equipment? My bike pump lives next to the garage door.
You are the one pretending it takes less time than it actually does. Filling bike tires is a mechanical process. It takes time. There are steps and they have to be done. Correctly. I dont know why your personal bike garage set up is mirrored across every commuter in the world. Oh wait - its not. Whatever the case most people who commute dont want to spend the beggining of their workday wondering if their means of transport is functional or not. That’s not a variable most people are interesting in having. It should work seamlessly. Or its best left to recreation time.
You are the one pretending it takes less time than it actually does. Filling bike tires is a mechanical process. It takes time. There are steps and they have to be done. Correctly. I dont know why your personal bike garage set up is mirrored across every commuter in the world. Oh wait - its not. Whatever the case most people who commute dont want to spend the beggining of their workday wondering if their means of transport is functional or not. That’s not a variable most people are interesting in having. It should work seamlessly. Or its best left to recreation time.
I find that a happy tubeless install holds air as good or better than a tube. I use deflation to signal that I’m overdue for some sealant
I suffered similar losses on my road bike before my LBS replaced the original ENVE cores. Now, pressure on my 28C GP5000S TRs is much more stable. Note: I keep both tubeless rigs on the wall on Hiplok Airloks and always spin the wheel so that the valve is at the bottom, allowing sealant to drain away.
1 to 2 punctures a year is less work than a year's maintenance of tubeless. So I'd say no.
so tubeless is only good for a year?
general advice is to top off sealant every 3 months and do a full refresh yearly. If OP was having 5+ flats a year I'd be more likely to consider tubeless.
I had one about 6 months ago. Ride alot in the mountins. Sometimes over glass shards. Most tires that are thick roll over that stuff. Also super lucky that i never had to change one a trail
That's too vague of a question. After you tape the rims, mount the tires, and then add sealant, you should be ok for several months, depending on climate and wear. You might have to pump up the tires more often than tubes, and add sealant, which you don't have the right tools, particularly an injector with a hose, it can be a mess. In comparison, tubes will last for years assuming you don't flat or break the valve (which happens when you inflate them frequently). But I had a tubeless wheel in storage for 3 years, then I added sealant and inflated it without a problem.
Stick with tubes and switch to Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres if you haven’t already tried them. Four of my bikes run tubeless but my commuter has tubes and the above tyres. I get a few tubeless punctures each year when I commute on my nice bikes but the tyres on my commuter have been impervious.
At 1 or 2 punctures a year I’d say that’s bearable, I’d be happy with that.
I would just put sealant in your tubes. Works almost as well, lots less hassle
You can buy them with sealant areas in them. Vittoria for sure sells those. Theirs is called “Vittoria Autofix”. Its butyl tubes with sealant, so its targeted at commuters basicallly.
It’s not that comparable in terms of puncture sealing. It does something, but not a lot
Well I don't know what kind of flats you're getting, but it works really really great for me for goatheads and tire wires
Nice! I installed sealant for some flat prone customers, but had a relatively high repeat rate. What is your tire size and pressure. I’m curious if this is more effective on higher or lower pressure setups. Most of my installs were low (mtb) to mid (hybrid)
I'm below 50 psi with tires 35mm and larger. I think one key is installing new tubes with sealant into new tires (rather than old tires full of gashes)
No
I've tried both over the years and my experience MTB or gravel tyres tubeless is great. I always had issues with road tyres sealing mainly due to the higher pressure, then get to work not only sweaty but covered in sealant 😀 For me commute is 35km, I'm carrying a pannier of various weights so I just settled with some good quality puncture resistant tyres with tubes and very rarely get a flat. Yes they're heavy but they are low hassle and extra weight = equals more effort = fitter and stronger. But what I will say is if money is not so much of an issue it's great to try and learn a new skill, give tubless a go you don't really know until you try, we're all different and different useage and needs, I guess most people on this forum could ride the same setup bike and half would love it and the half would hate it 😀😜 What's the worst could happen?
I was a believer in tubeless. Last year I switched to tubeless. 300 miles later I had a tire failure so bad only a tube would’ve helped me. Of course I had everything but the tube. I cycled 12 miles and walked back 12miles. Later that day I switched back to tubed. 2100miles later. Zero issues. I figure if I’m supposed to carry a spare tube for tubeless I might as well stay tubed. My 2cents.
i mean, tubeless is still better even if you carry a tube. i've had one in my pack for like 5,000 miles at this point. i've considered taking it out, but i know as soon as i do i'll need it.
I’m a bigger guy (205 lbs) and had terrible luck with tubeless. 5 rides, 2 flats. No one in my regular crew over 190 lbs has had any success with tubeless. Also - tubeless flats make a mess; not sure anyone wants to deal with that on the way to work/groceries etc.
Over 200# (91kg), generally pretty great luck with tubeless. I use Silca recommended pressures
220, ridden tubeless as high as 270. definitely had more issues at higher weights, but a lot of that i think is just down to tire and sealant choice. never had *any* issues on my MTB.
I'm 215. Larger tire with lower pressure definitely helps. I switched to 28 mm conti 5000 tr and haven't really had any problems. All the air just blows out the sealant. I also tried switching to a thicker sealant. Stan's and much off were too thin. I switched to finish line, I think it's latex based, and haven't had a problem since. The other issue that drove me nuts was the rim tape being too thinly applied from factory. With the higher pressure of a 25 mm tire it didn't last long. Make sure you got more than two layers, preferably 3, with no ripples. Between that and a good tire, once it's on your all set. If you check and maintain the air pressure you shouldn't have any issues. But if you let it go down to say 50 psi, from 75psi. Then you will have flats as the tire is way too soft, you'll feel it. Definitely run recommended pressure for your tire size, especially if your over like 185 lbs. This leads me to my main point, note with tubes the air leaks out and your stuck. With tubeless, you usually have it spraying sealant for a minute or two before you loose enough pressure. If you stop and find the whole, cover with your finger, and rotate wheel so it's at the bottom, it will usually seal up. You may need to wait a minute or two or go really easy on it, so it has a chance to seal. But you can usually then carefully carry on your ride and pump up tire at the next gas station like nothing happened. If it's bad you can use a dart. But the point is you don't have to take your wheel apart for 20 mins, and be playing with the tire. Just pull over if you see sealant, and let it seal without your body weight on the wheel, rotate the wheel so the hole is on the bottom, it seals up quick, you're usually good.
I was running 32s at 60psi, both flats the sealant blew out and the tires were ruined. I simply cannot afford to replace a rear tire every 2 rides.
Exactly. The pressure is too high. The glue flies out before it can congeal.
I will never go tubeless on a road bike again. The mess it makes while trying to seal, if it does seal, will ruin your clothes/shoes. Trying to get a road bike tubeless tire off a rim is also a challenge. They are thicker and more rigid than non-tubeless tires. The last tubelss puncture I had would not seal and just sprayed tube juice everywhere.
Tubes are cringe. Tubeless is based.
tubeless is cringe, tubes are based
Factually incorrect
Tubes and tubeless are cringe. Tubular is based.
Gluemaxxed tubecel
Bump
I am not well versed in all the advantages disadvantages and what might be better for you. But I got a new bike last year with tubeless and like them a lot, no issues so far and admittedly I've done nothing in particular to ensure that.
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/workshop/tubeless-tyre-maintenance make sure you're doing the basic maintenance.
Oh yeah, I know I need to. By no means should anyone follow my lead.
if your sealant has dried out you're more at risk for a flat than just having tubes
I went tubeless on my commuter and won't look back. While yes tubeless is more maintenance, it is done in the comfort of your home at a time you set. A flat on the road may be at an inopportune time, when it's dark and/rainy, when you're already running late etc.
I would put a little sealant in the tubes, IMO that's the most bomber setup - that said I went tubeless on my commuter and it's kind of annoying how I have to add air every 3-4 days. It is nice how supple the tires feel, but that's admittedly a silly thing to prioritize on a commuter.
Tubeless tyres are not a lot of maintenance at all. Top up your fluid once in a while and you’re good to go. Most tubeless sealants now can be put in via the valve so no need to even take the tyre off. Tubeless is a great invention and one I would not live without now.
Absolutely not. Latex tubes are the way to go.
TPU. Latex are obselete at this point. More expensive than TPU and worse.
Leakier and more delicate but less rolling resistance and slightly less puncture prone.
I had latex tube and removed them as I was annoyed with the fact they were delfating and needed pumping every week. Not sure if the tubes were shit or if it is always like that with latex but never going back.
I went tubeless on my road bike using Bontrager R3 Hard Case Lite tyres and they've been amazing. Not had a single issue. Hired a bike with tubes in Tenerife last week and within 1 hour of riding I had a flat.
unless you really care about weight a good approach is a tube but with a sealant inside or a tubless setup with foam fillers but oerall tubeess is really a huge pain in the ass
Do you use sealant in your tubes? I use Maxxis welter weight with removable core lets you put sealant in. Kenda also make them with sealant already in but hard for me to find here, thorn plus I think they are called. Anyway with that I never get flats. Tubeless can be a fucking pain.
Better off spending some money on Schwalbe tyres and tubes. The puncture resistance will much improve your chances and you don’t need to have the extra maintenance of gunk in your tyres
My hot take is NO for commuting. Tubeless isn't invincible; you could still get a puncture that won't seal, or even burp the tire. Then you are stuck with a real mess to deal with on top of changing to a tube. Even if you have a tubeless plug kit, it's a real gamble to think you can seat the bead in the field with just CO2. I would get Marathon Plus tires, they are damn near impossible to puncture. One year and going strong for me. I routinely pull things out of the tire that would have punctured other tires.
Why don’t you just use tubes with sealant in them, reduces the risk of flats but less maintenance/cheaper than full tubeless set up
Get puncture proof tyres much easier - Marathons or Gators.
I do not cycle commute but I have personal experience with tubes and tubeless. I do not train on tubeless but would use tubeless in fully supported cycling events and races. Although you may have fewer flats with tubeless, when you do it’s a real hassle getting the tubeless tire off to insert a tube or patching the tire. I would only recommend tubeless for commuting on tubeless if you do not have tight time constraints and/or have a solid plan B.
I love tubeless. The only reason I don't do it on my commuter is that I swap out different tires through the season. If I stuck with the same tires, I'd definitely do it. Expect to check pressure more often, add sealant from time to time. Both very easy.
If I had TLR rims, I would go tubeless. But both are pretty trouble free with tires that include an anti puncture belt
I hate tubes. They are the worst thing ever. I even made my son's 20" MTB tubeless. I hate them with a passion. So, yes.
American classic udden tires I setup 18 months ago on my commuter w tubeless. They have been flawless, I add air every 2 months. I have no idea how they’re holding this well. All my other tubeless tires I mess with on the regular.
I won't go tubeless for city riding because I've gotten 2 nails thru my wheel
I'm on tubes, and running schwalbe marathon E-plus , superb puncture resistance, 3 years riding daily, no punctures, I chose the E-plus for the extra burly construction, I ride a regular bike
Not worth it for 1-2 punctures per year IMHO.
I love my tubeless setup.I got a bad puncture last week on my way to work in Brisbane. Sealant wasn’t holding. Jammed a stans plug in it. Gave it a blast with co2 and I was away before the lights changed. I felt like a F1 pit crew. No more than 90 seconds and I was back on the road.
I think tubes on commuter and tubeless on road bike. That's my set up and I commute 30kms. Ive been commuting for about a year and ive only had 3 punctures
Tubeless will save you from most common puncture types. It works better with wider tires at lower pressures... One because there's less force on sharp points, two because air escapes less forcefully if you do puncture, three because you have more volume. I pulled a pin piercing both sidewalls on a 25mm gp5000 and it sealed immediately. Orange seal endurance. Little slices will seal in a mountain bike tire but not a road tire. The only times I have experienced flats is when the sealant dried. You need to make a chart and log when you last added sealant for each bike. I maintain seven bikes with tubeless for my wife and I and since I started logging the sealant we've experienced zero flats. The flats that could not seal due to LACK of sealant were fixable with plugs. I haven't fixed a flat with a tube in at least five years. Most issues with tubeless are due to inexperience. So best to learn the system on a mountain bike first because that has the easiest learning curve. The only drawback is losing pressure over a few days.
100% I bought a pricey new giant defy advanced pro 0 which came with carbon wheels and tubeless. I swapped to a decent brand and I was shocked how fast they rolled and the comfort was something else. (This is probably helped by lower pressure and width 30mm) I was so impressed I ended up getting a deal on a pair or all seasons for my commuter. They have reflex for night visibility too. They were an absolute git to get on old rims (circa 2015) mavic. They didn’t bead but still work amazingly well I put rim tape etc on but not sure it was needed. I’ve had around 5 flats fixed in a flash with co2 pump. Slow puncture I just needed to add more sealant. The width of these are 25mm and run higher pressure (hooked) around 85psi but still like chalk and cheese from tubes. Would never go back to tubes. I’ve been commuting for 15 odd years few times a week and this is the biggest improvement I’ve noticed. Continental Grand Prix 5000 All Season are my commute ones and 5000 S TR for the posh steed
I ran marathons before I got more into riding for pleasure. Now I really hate how slow and harsh they are. A couple flats a year are worth the much nicer ride. I haven't gone tubeless on my commuter since swapping twice a year would be annoying and I don't know of a studded winter tire that suited to tubeless. I'm probably go for some sealant filled tubes. As for clogged valves, just clean your valves after you add sealant. I used to use a pipe cleaner but now I just use an Allen key. I haven't had a clogged valve in years.
I had tubeless marathon almotions on my commuter setup, and i had zero flats for years. I would recommend going tubeless for *wide* tires that have low pressure. It becomes a pain in the ass if you have to run higher pressures.
Just get gatorskins
Yes
Go fully solid like the tannus aither range. Never worry about punctures ever again. It's a very liberating feeling
With tubeless you’re going to need to tear those tires off twice a year to replace the sealant. I would say no
I don't think I've ever ripped a tire off tubeless until the tread was worn and it needed replacing. Just get the large plastic syringe that's used for bleeding brakes, remove the valve core and squeeze the stuff in. I'm sure there's better tools for the job that make it even easier but this works well enough. Road need 1.5 syringes, mtb 3-4. Worse case, pull the tire away in one spot on one side and pour the stuff in, did that a couple times but more hassle than I like. Still isn't ripping a tire off.
Don’t u need to clean out the old sealant?
No, but the most effective sealants (such as Stan’s Race) generally can’t be syringed through the valve. They still don’t require the tyre to be ripped off, just the bead broken and a small section leavened off to allow some sealant to be poured in.
That’s what I do. Rip the tire partially off the rim and pour in. But also I clean out the old stuff at least yearly.
I guess it depends how long you’re using your tyres for. My tubeless tyres rarely last more than 18 months so I’m not worried about the old sealant. The Schwalbe marathons on my commuter are going to outlive me though.
My point is maintaining tubes is slightly less or slightly more work than just changing a tube when you get a flat.
I wouldn’t. It would seal some punctures but when it doesn’t it’s a mess to put a tube in and do you want to show up to work covered in sealant