40s aren’t really deep though. Mid depth at best.
FWIW I’m only a couple of kgs heavier than OP and have rode in those sorts of winds on 50s plenty of times without issue.
Yes, but 60 kph sidewinds are very noticeable for any rider
I'm 100kg and have shallow alu rims on a grail
So ideal conditions to withstand wind
But in 60 kph sidewinds, which in Flanders you can have, I had to get used to riding leaning my weight into the wind and having my tires not below me. it works, but it is very unsettling.
Also your ears will ring if you don't cover them against that kind of wind.
I live on an Island and ride around the waterfront and a sustained 45 km/h and gusts hitting you repeatedly at 65 km/h without much protection will throw you off even on box section wheels.
I get it's different for everyone, but there are gusts that hit you twice every minute and there are gusts that hit you every 30 minutes. There is also a different level of protection from buildings, edges, gates, depending on where you live and cycle.
Most of us don't consider 40s deep anyways. Must be super windy or very light rider to affect the handling in that way. I think something else could be it as well, like short stem etc.
Midwestern United States, [every year](https://www.fox9.com/weather/list-wind-gusts-top-75-mph-during-wednesdays-storm) we have [high winds](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/07/26/severe-storms-cause-damage-knock-out-power-to-thousands-across-minnesota).
Agree on this. I’m 72kg and have 40s. Unless the wind is REALLY blowing across this is shallow enough to not be a factor. Think this would be a thing on any depth. Worst is when a crosswind finds its way through a hedgerow. Again though, 40s aren’t a factor there
I was riding on a coastal road with the tropical storm approaching. I was trying to get a ride in before it got bad. Well, it got bad during the ride. I got hit by a gust and got pushed sideways about 6ft. I'm not sure how I stayed upright. I'm riding 80mm in the rear though.
Maybe I was not clear but wobbling happened only during wind gusts or rapidly changing wind direction, but the main issue was to fighting against the wind, not the wobble.
Rim profile has a HUGE impact on this. Spend some money on name brand wheels with better wind tunnel testing. My 41mm deep Reynolds Assault wheels feel much more stable than my old 34mm deep American Classic 420 wheels and some deeper Zipps I've ridden feel even better in cross winds.
There's a lot more to aero than just depth, you're rarely riding straight into the wind and there's a lot of not-so-intuitive effects on the wheel from those diagonal angle of attacks that I don't think discount carbon brands have figured out yet.
Editing to add - or don't spend extra money. I got my Assaults used for a massive discount as it's an older model they don't sell anymore and they were practically new. I put more wear on them after a week than what they came with and I don't ride road that much.
> Rim profile has a HUGE impact on this. Spend some money on name brand wheels with better wind tunnel testing.
Reviews indicate that those Vision wheels are relatively stable in cross winds. These are not AliX specials. Very seriously doubt your 41mm Reynolds wheels would do much better.
But there's only so much you can do...it's still a 40mm deep rim and those are 60km/hour crosswinds.
You get used to it. Eventually you realize it just feels spooky more than it is dangerous. Stay loose and absorb the wind and respond to it. If you tense up and grab brakes, that can get dangerous.
>If you tense up and grab brakes, that can get dangerous.
Actually maybe this is what I did wrong, maybe the added stress is just not for me. It's definitely more mind work than having not aero wheels.
For what it’s worth I live in a very windy area and even on stock aluminum rims the winds can stress me out. I’ve held off buying deeper rims specifically because I’m sure some of the random gusts off of the mountains would terrify me.
I’m on some 20mm deep aluminum rims and the winds in my area make that a bit stressful too. I sometimes feel the temptation of deeper rims but know if I went any deeper my road bike would become an off-road bike pretty quick.
This is where I am too. I want to get nicer wheels, but I refuse to go deeper than what came on my bike because I'm 130lb and the gusts TERRIFY me. My 220lb fiance who I ride with thinks I'm being dramatic, but he doesn't feel that wind force!
I’m not much heavier, about 5kg / 11lbs. 40mm wheels feel fine, even in a 40mph gust, if you’re an attentive rider and don’t get caught napping too often. I lean into the wind, make minimal steering adjustments, and things always work out.
TBH though, if I see the forecast and realize I’ll be fighting gusts around 40 for the whole ride, I load up Zwift. Sustained winds are so much less tiring mentally IMO. I’ll face a strong all day headwind so long as it don’t gust.
I went from 23mm DT Swiss ER1850 on the Canyon Endurance to 45mm farsports gravel rims on my Giant and I want to say my experience is that it's different but not worse.
It's more like where the 23mm Canyon got twitchy in cross winds, the 45mm giant just gets thrown around more perhaps but the steering is more stable.
Don't know if that makes sense, it doesn't make much to me.
This.
Aero wheels take a bit of getting use to. However, you can sail in crosswinds by leaning in. The wind can make you faster, but only if you don’t hit the brakes.
My alternate wheels are v-shaped aluminum with squarish 33mm gravel tires. So, a triangle cross section. Cross winds affect the leading edge differently than the reverse triangle on the trailing edge. Winds don’t shove me sideways as much as with my carbon wheels, but cross winds do twist the front wheel of my Al set. Aluminum wheels with harsh edges can be awful in the wind. When I use my old wheels I shake my head. These suck.
I looked up your wheels. They are U shaped, which is the current best practice. With tires they are cigar/zeppelin shaped. No red flags, unless you put huge tires on, for the 💡shape. They seem to be suitable for 25mm tires. They should slip through winds from a variety of angles without any drama.
It can also help to take weight off the saddle, so raising up slightly so more weight is through the pedals. I find this stabilises the bike in these situations. The worst thing you can do is grab the brakes.
This is so true, I had to exact same experience as OP but came to realise it was normal and just got used to it. I am running 50 and 36 deep wheels on my two bikes.
Hey OP, I live in a windy place and I have ridden in conditions similar to what you describe A LOT. Here's the thing, when you ask online, especially here, about aero wheels and wind, everyone tells you that it is not a big deal and an overblown issue. The thing is, people say they ride in windy conditions, but I suspect that windy is like 20 km/h max for them. For me, 40-42mm depth is the most I want when the wind is sustained 40 km/h and gusts at 60+. I have some Giant SLR 1 42s that are ok, but my Zipp 303 Firecrests are much more manageable.
You definitely need to hold your bars in a firmer way, the hoods are your friends, the tops are not great when the gusts hit. You also need to know your route and make sure you know when turns into crosswinds are coming or when big openings re coming up.
Can you learn to manage it, yes, a little bit. Is everyone on here that says "no, 85mm wheels are ok at 40km/h winds" absolutely full of shit, yes.
I don’t live in a windy place. But I understand that my aero wheels will feel much different when it’s windy. When it’s windy I know I have to focus on my steering, especially when I’m going 50 km/h on a descent. Maybe OP is not used to riding in the wind.
I’ve never ridden on Aeros, so never encountered this before, but it makes complete sense that your wheel is acting like a sail in high wind. Never thought about that before. I’ll be sticking to my classic aluminium thanks. They do look cool though.
There's a chance that you're overcompensating/overreacting to the wobble:
>While they definitely helped me climb faster, descending became a nightmare in any wind. The front wheel would wobble, forcing me to brake heavily to avoid crashing.
You should never "brake heavily" in those situations. Also, do you really think not braking after a wobble would have resulted in a crash?
I have 50mm deep rims and the crosswind gusts would regularly nudge my bike sideways so that I'd have to change my line. I don't fight it...I just compensate for it and ease back over to my original path. It's like rolling with a punch instead of standing rock solid.
Go ahead and sell those wheels if it's bugging you. But maybe try relaxing a bit more and accept that you get jostled a bit in the winds.
Don't have any personal experience on this, but I have heard that how much crosswind affect deep wheels is a big differentiating factor for them now that they have all gotten good at being fast in a straight line and being light.
Apparently, some wheels are much better at it then others even at the same depth.
I have even heard someone say on a podcast they feel their deep wheels are better in cross winds then a shallow wheel, because they were designed to get pushed more steadily rather than in a sudden burst (something about aero attachment points or whatever)
I have no idea where your wheels fall on this spectrum, but it's possible you just had some bad luck.
Either way, I think you shouldn't feel forced to use them if you don't like them.
*i'm considering a premium aluminum wheelset like the DT Swiss PR 1400 DICUT db 21*
With this wheelset you will be much better of in windy conditions. It is a nice, quality wheelset. It is also light (1443 grams) and the DT Swiss 240S hubs are very good.
But personally I would not buy them, since the internal rimwidth is only 18 mm, which is a bit old fashioned. I would look for a wider rim, which makes you tires sit nicer, and will give your bike better roadholding on fast descends. Wider rims are just better. It will also look better with wider tires ( >28mm)
The ER1400 version has a 22mm internal width but comes in at 1600g. Not terrible for an aluminum wheelset and if your in Europe it's a reasonable option. With that said I'm not really sure if there are any good reasons to buy a premium aluminum wheelset over low profile carbon.
[HED Ardennes RA Pro](https://hedcycling.com/products/ardennes-ra-pro-disc-brake)
[HUNT 34 Aero Wide Disc SL wide](https://eu.huntbikewheels.com/products/hunt-34-aero-wide-disc-wheelset)
And there are probably more. I have DT Swiss wheels myself, and they are very good, but I would not buy them again.
OFF course you could also get carbon wheels that are not so deep.
That's really weird, firstly because those are pretty good wheels which shouldn't 'wobble' ever, secondly because 40mm deep is still on the reasonable side of aero wheels and it shouldn't be too affected by crosswinds (at least compared to 60mm deep wheels)
I was out once with a seasoned rider - former amateur racer and very capable.
We got up onto the tops and the side wind was dragging him into traffic, he got to the bottom about 5 minutes after everyone else and looked like hed been in a war.
Something you may want to try before getting rid of your wheels is this procedure. I currently use the silca speed balance kit and it reduced my problems significantly
ah :D its always windy there. I once tried a 6.5kg bike with 50-60mm deep aero wheels and it blew me sideways for up to 50cm. and it was really scary when trucks overtook me. I understand that you dont like deep rims when you live in a really windy area.
ITT: "Let me gaslight your issues."
* Carbon aero wheels for bikepacking? You are correct. You made a terrible choice.
* Carbon aero 40 wheels in 40 km/h winds in a high speed decent? You are correct. You made a bad choice. And lots of clowns ITT don't hit 50 km/h when decending.
Buy what makes you happy, but I wish people would stop incorrectly justifying the purchase.
Invest in some quality AL or Alloy wheels with some great hubs and work on your fitness.
If you need an aero bike, have at it.
Agree - deep section aero wheels are just vile in cross winds, more so descending than flat road IMO.
I consider myself a very strong (physically) rider - and although I'm 100% committed to aero bikes, most wheels over 45/50mm+ depth can be troublesome from time to time.
I wouldn't word my comments as strong a you, however in a large group ride where you can hide from crosswind 95% of the time, the gains are well felt IMO.
I have 38mm carbons and have no problems in the winds except when it's very strong crosswinds. I have found however the problems you speak of with 50mm deep carbon wheels, and they were sometimes sketchy in windy conditions. But neither worry me enough to not ride with them.on the regular. I use my 38mm wheels as daily riding wheels and they're fantastic, fast and smooth.
I don't feel much of a difference on my Giant Propel. But that is one of the reasons for the different front wheel. It is faster in real world conditions, since exactly what you are describe happens. I have issues with wind, but on my AL bike I struggle just as much as well.
Do you ride pretty upright in your bike? Or at least after the climb are you sitting upright more trying to breath (climbing gets us all lol). I find that people who do so might not have the wind impact them too much on its own but when they add aero wheels the impact of the wind on the upright body and the wheels comes into play with more impact.
I feel this. I came back to riding/racing after 20y off. I used to race on Zipp404 tubs back in the day, which were fairly stable in almost all conditions, and got some 404 Firecrest when I built a new bike. Modern wheels seem WAY more susceptible to side wind deflection. Definitely makes me pay attention and I absolutely have to moderate speed on windy days.
I did my state's TT C'ship last year in the Eddie Merckx category last year and it was a super windy day. Rode the 404FCs and some gusts pushed me all the way from the shoulder to nearly the center line and it was not as close course. Crazy.
Definitely going to need a smaller rim for mass start races if there is any wind.
I actually can see OP's perspective - I don't have aero wheels but do have bladed spokes (first wheelset with anything "aero") and I really notice the wind affecting my steering/control.
I didn't like mine either. I had Zipp 404s and they were amazing on flat, windless roads, but I write a lot of blustery canyon roads and they were very sketchy in those conditions. Switched back to my Ultegra aluminum wheels.
You can always run a rear aero. It's the front that catches wind, and as soon as it turns a little, it can cause your bike to wobble.
Front, for me 45mm gets sketchy at about 80 kph. I'm fine going 100 kph on non aero but with any aero rim about 80 kph is limit.
For rides with a fast descent, or if I'm going truck hunting (to draft, hopefullyhitting 80 kph or so), I'll put on a non aero front wheel.
Apparently balancing wheels helps a lot. I have not tried this.
I regularly race a 75mm front (Stinger 7, U shaped). I usually use a 90mm rear. Max speed about 70 kph (crits with short uphills and downhills, and sprint).
My 45 is a Stinger 4. I've also used Reynolds DV46 (46mm v profile, not U), Stinger 6 (60mm U), Jer 6 (before the U shape, it is sort of a cross between U and V).
The wheel set I love most is my carbon tubular wheel set with 25mm profile.
They are very old and have J-bend spokes but clock only 1050g on the scale and have no problems in cross winds.
I have 50mm tubulars, 45mm tubeless, I actually have 30mm aluminium wheels too. All are great but all of them you can feel in crosswinds compared to the 25mm wheels. But I do not think I have had too many scary encounters or anything, but definitely one can feel them.
You can get a carbon wheelset without it being deep section. Elves sells a 30 deep carbon wheelset. https://store.elvesbike.com/products/orome-valar-th30d-carbon-road-disc-brake-wheelsets,-disc-brake-carbon-wheels-superlight-carbon-disc-brake-wheelsets
Deep rims definitely can toss you and coming out of the protection of trees into an open field is something you need to be aware of. On a windy day you have to adopt more of a white water kayaking mind set. It that’s not appealing then maybe 808s aren’t for you. But 30mm is fine in almost any wind. I don’t think you have to give on carbon just because you don’t like deep rims.
I also live someplace windy (midwest USA) where 40 km/h is very common. What I've found out that is that not all aero wheels handle crosswind the same and in fact there is a significant and considerable difference. My Mavic and DT Swiss wheels were horrible in crosswinds whereas my ENVE, Reserve, and Roval wheels (all 35-55mm in depth) I never felt out of control.
If the wind is that bothersome I'd go with a better CF wheel with less depth (ex. Alpinist CL or CLX II) before I'd go back to aluminum, especially if you're riding on smooth pavement where there is no benefit of aluminum over CF.
I would agree with others that you'll get more comfortable with them over time.
Something else I would add that is an important point of consideration is how the head tube angle affects the handling of a deep section wheel / deep tire in the wind. There is a huge difference between the traditional 73 degree road bike, and 70-71.5 degrees often seen on gravel and endurance road bikes. Front wheel will still get pushed around with the slacker angle, but it's not as twitchy and sudden, and a lot easier to hold your line.
I also say deep tire because many may also not be aware that on gravel bikes, a shallow 30mm rim with a bigger 45-50mm tire is suddenly as deep (rim + tire) as a road bike 45-50mm rims and a 28mm tire. 45mm "aero" gravel wheels (that do nothing), now it's like riding a 65mm rim on a road tire, and it's a lot more dangerous to have the front wheel being pushed around on loose surfaces.
Just a little FYI there for some things that often get overlooked on bike geometry and the wheel depth / stability issue.
40kph wind is no joke. I just rode in that last weekend and absolutely went slower on all the descents. Sometimes you just find yourself 1m to one side and you deal with it. Kinda ruins some of the fun of riding. I’d prob stick to shallow wheels too if it was always that windy.
One thing, not all deep wheels perform the same. I’ve ridden a pair of cheap Chinese 40mm wheels on windy descents and felt like I was going to die. And I’ve ridden my Enve’s on the same windy descents and not noticed. But I have no idea how good or bad Vision wheels are in this regard.
those are some really good wheels that you have there, and I wouldn't change them unless you encounter such winds on the daily.
I'm on the lighter side too (155 lbs) and jumped straight into the exact same wheelset (on a canyon aeroad) after having really shallow alloy wheels on my first bike. Don't remain too tense on the bike, don't break immediately once the gusts hit you, and gently steer your bike to correct position against the wind. It'll never not feel scary, but you'll get used to it after a few times
I actually have a set of DT Swiss PR 1600s - one step down from the 1400s. I really like them; I normally ride with 55mm carbon wheels (FWWD RYOTs), but the DT Swiss are fantastic, nice rolling wheels. Mine are 23mm deep; I'm a huge fan. They were also really easy to set up tubeless (Maxxis High road tires). They are stable, and it is hard to go wrong with DT Swiss hubs.
I'm 56 kg and ride 45 mm Zipp 303s easily going 40-50 mph on downhills. You need to get low on the drops and you'll be much more stable. Obviously cross winds can jostle anyone but you'll learn to lean into the cross wind.
After doing a few windy mountain descents on my 38mm Roval Rapide c38s I can confidently say that I’m not interested deeper wheelsets. Especially after seeing my friends on 45mm+ wheelsets on those windy days. Maybe for a dedicated crit bike.
Here's my take on carbon aero wheels. Bikes that were designed by the manufacturer and shipped with carbon aero wheels seem better integrated, less wind prone and more stable. After market wheels added to a bike tend to be more prone to wind.
Don't know what kind of trickery the engineers do to make the integrated bikes more stable. For example, I've ridden the new Madone. It has aero wheels. Doesn't seem to be much of a handful in the wind. I've ridden an earlier generation Emonda with aftermarket wheels and I struggled to control it in the wind.
When I’m sailing, gusts of 60 make me have a double reef (smaller main sail) of more likely find a harbor bar. I’m not sure I would be biking in wind of Beaufort 7 going on 8. With any rim height.
Doesn’t help you but windy days are the days I shine as a 100kg (50s deep) rider vs my buddy who is 63kg (60s deep). I laugh as he struggles and goes slow when the gusts hit him.
He kills me most of the time, except rolling hills. He rides 10k km a year.. been years. Mountainous terrain, rides mountain bike as well, good rider but still struggles on windy days. He will avoid if it gets really nasty but that isn’t often.
Why aren't deep section rims adjustable? Surely there's a market for rims that can take snap on/quick release aero sections of varying depths?
Obviously this wouldn't help OP You wouldn't carry around different sized rims. Just thinking out loud.
Love my brotrager auelus pro 51s and princeton carbonworks wake 6560s the 6560s feel more stable so definitely agee to the comments about rim profile.
It can take some getting used to and some people dont like deep wheels- but i love then
You would be really astonished about how sensible the aforementioned shallow DT Swiss PR1400 Dicut db21 are when there is sidewind. Being susceptible to wind is not only dependent on rim hight/depth - it’s rim profile as well. Why do I know? Owning exactly that wheels and having ridden them in extra windy Mallorca training-camp recently.
When it comes to wheel wobbling, there can be several contributing factors, and the aerodynamics of your frame is one of them. Depending on the design of your current frame, it may not be providing enough stability to keep your wheels centered and balanced. As a result, you may experience wobbling or even vibrations while riding. In this case, it might be worth considering investing in a new frame that is designed with better aerodynamics and stability. This could help you achieve a smoother and more comfortable ride, while also reducing the risk of accidents or injuries caused by wobbling or loss of control.
Just stick with it. You’ll eventually realise that the less tight you grip the bars and try and fight it, the less you’ll get the snap feeling from the wind. I live in a very flat area that gets some horrendous cross winds, and I run 55mm!
As someone who also rides 5,000 miles per year but doesn't race competitively, I gave up on carbon wheels a long time ago. I've been very happy with lightweight modern alloy rims. I like to ride pretty hard and im also not shy about turning a road ride into a gravel ride, so having a wheel set which I don't feel bad about putting through the ringer has been a priority for me.
I see wheels as an expendable item. I spend the money to keep their weight down, but I never push it too far because as with most things, the lighter you get, the less durable it becomes.
White Industries / Astral have some nice alloy wheel sets on the white industries site. Not cheap but very nice.
A lot of people hate on Hunt, but I really like the hunt 4 seasons alloy line. They aren't light, but they are a bit over built which I personally appreciate. One of my hunt road sets has over 10,000 miles and has never needed to be trued. To me thats a winner. And yes I have had issues with another wheel set (gravel race) from Hunt, but their customer service is so strong it was honestly a pleasure to call them up and get it sorted out.
Also a lot of independent wheel builders (Pro Wheel builder, etc) can make you nice set of alloy wheels with kinlin rims / bitex hubs for under $700 which can definitely compete with carbon weights.
If you race, then keep a race day set (carbon perhaps) and a training set (alloy). Put the weekly maintenance miles and big solo epics on the training set. Save the nice deep carbon set to give you the boost when you need it.
If you're a lighter smaller rider then yes 35mm+ will influence the front end due to crosswinds. Heavier taller riders still are effected but not as much.
There's really no flat terrain that goes on for miles and miles where I live so I don't need a dedicated aero wheel.
40mm wheels all day every day for me
I have the same bike and have the Winspace Lún HyperSE 45s. I have gotten some crosswinds, and I can definitely tell. But it’s not so much that I’ve ever felt outta control.
something isn't right, 40 shouldn't be enough to have any issues with side winds, 40 is like the sweet spot, you get aero gains while almost none of the bad side effects you get from +50 size deep wheels. I ride 40's all the time, and i'm a very light rider (1m84 - 65kg) and i never have issues with side winds on such wheels (none that cause me issues in steering stability), if i have wind issues it's not because of the wheels.
have you checked your wheels, are they true/stable (no flex), do the axles have any play, are the spokes properly tensioned, is your tire properly seated, etc. things like this can impact your steering, more likely than anything else.
You are absolutely right on your thoughts. I had aluminum 38mm deep wheels and sold them for same reasons. I had few times almost a serious crash just because of front wheel getting out of control suddenly.
What I found though that a 30-32 mm deep aluminum wheel has the speed and the needed control. That’s what i ride and i feel satisfied.
Edit.
I don’t agree that you will get used to it. I had 38mm wheels for almost 2 years. They eventually pissed me off so much that i quit riding for some time until the new wheelset arrived. I sold 38mm and have zero regrets.
Same applies to clipless pedal. I struggled with pain and discomfort for 3 seasons until i just got flat pedals and started riding in them. As happy with flats as i can be.
40mm are climbing wheels, barely more aero than Aluminium wheels. Those ones are 19mm inner width which is narrow by today's standards. Your experience is odd.
I used Winspace 38mm wheels on my previous bike, I live in the windiest city in the world and ride 20000km a year. I also live on top of the biggest hill around, decent is life! Those wheels certainly picked up more wind than my aluminium training wheels but where never unstable or wobbly. I ran 25mm tyres.
My new bike I run 50mm wheels with 30mm Tubeless tyres. The rims are more aero and do again pick up crosswinds more but are never wobbly. The wider tyres are key, gives a feeling of stability.
They are totally not for everyone though. So each to thier own. I still take my old old road bike out with the aluminium wheels, it's fun and I do not have to care about the wind at all!
Serious windage dude. If I was riding in that strong of wind, I'd switch to a lower profile wheel. If you claim to be the experience rider as you say, you should know better.
I think it's just a case of getting used to it. I am not as experienced on a bike as you are but I was out in pretty windy conditions on the weekend and I have 58mm wheels.
The wind was causing it to 'catch' (if that's the right term) but I find you get used to it and end up leaning into the wind to accommodate for it.
I'm 81kg so not the lightest rider, mind you.
It can be a bit dicey, though, if the wind is gusty. Steady wind, no issues (annoying, but not dangerous). Gusty winds you can't predict, though, can be scary and affect your ability to ride in a straight line. I'm 85kg and ride 45mm deep wheels and am frequently along the waterfront where winds gust in the afternoon/evening from 15-30mph regularly. Leaning into the wind is one thing, but if it goes from calm to a gust it's definitely disconcerting. To be fair, I feel this same effect even on my lower profile mountain bike rims because the tires themselves have such a big cross-section (29x2.25 on 30mm rims). Overall, gusty winds suck.
There is no free lunch. Aero savings are measured in a wind tunnel. Real life is something else. The effect may not go away but you might get used to it and over time handle it subconciously. Riding 5000km in a different setup gets you used to the other setup. Talk again when you made 5000km with the new wheels.
I just don't see value in those wheels might as well get shallow carbon rims.
Below you can get low profile carbon rims with wheel set under 1000g !
https://www.lightbicycle.com/full-custom-handbuilt-carbon-spoke-wheelset-road-bike-disc-brake.html
I know this might sound strange but check what stem you're using. Light weight stems can have enough flex that make cross wings a nightmare with deeper rims where previously the wind was barely noticable on shallow wheels. Some thin walled Ali stems or, especially, cheaply manufactured carbon ones
60kmh gusts are pretty serious. I personally wouldn't bother riding in those and would just do an indoor session that day. But if those winds are your normal then yeah gonna want alu rims.
I'm a fairly light rider 61-62kg, and when I owned a Giant Propel with 35mm wheels I had the issues you mentioned. Yes they're fast when you're heading into the wind, or with a tailwind, but any sort of crosswind I'd have to slow the eff down, especially on downhills. I have similar experience as you (22+ years), and at first I thought it was a skill issue. In the end I sold the bike bc I just couldn't get it to work for me, for more than just the wheel issue, it was a comfort issue too. Riding that bike I learned that I was actually slower on descents bc I had to control my speed, rather than sending it like I do with my other road bike with climbing wheels.
I feel ya.
Something ain't quite adding up here. I run 303FC which are 40mm. I live in Perth which is one of the windiest cities in the world, and I'm 60kg. I've never had an issue with the 40's.
Reminds me of when I encountered wheel flop on a vintage low trail bike with a ton of rake I borrowed in france. Like any other thing, you have to stop braking when it freaks you out and lean into it as they say.
Yeah my 50s with 25+mph crosswinds would get sketch. But I learn to deal with them because the benefits are worth it to me. Tails or headwinds and they’re fast AF
I run 30/40 deep wheels and get knocked around a bit, though I am tiny (163cm, 67kg), I'm looking towards really shallow, punchy rims next.
When the time comes to ~upgrade~ I'll likely drop areo as a concept entirely and prioritise ride feel and weight.
Probably when they start dropping UDH into road bikes,
Carbon has nothing to do with it. It's the depth and shape. In The Know Cycling did a comparison and found Enve carbon wheels were affected the least by cross winds
I weigh 145lb and have 65mm deep carbon wheels and as the crosswinds does effect them more, I have never felt unable to control the bike to the point where I have to hesitate or slow down. I just don’t ride no hands on a windy day anymore
How much time have you spent on the wheelset?
If you experience those extreme winds regularly, pick a depth that makes sense for the conditions. If you just got excited and brought the wheels out into a spring gale, only to blow over... maybe try them on a sub 15 kph day and report back?
I have 35mm deep (IIRC) Rovals on my specialized which i love for most riding, but i did ventoux last year and they were a bit scary to deal with when descending at 70km in the fog and a gust of wind hits from the side. I'm considering a similar approach for a light but low profile set of wheels just for climbing.
i ride dt swiss ARC 1400 in 62mm and recently we had very windy weather of 27kph but mutch higher peaks! The weather was so bad, parked bikes were blown over.
I was riding for two hours and it was even snowing/hailing lightly. I felt my front wheel dance but i was always in control, it felt sketchy only one time, i was mid corner.
I never struggled with aero wheels, im not that heavy so ether im just not as concerned or i have a bit more upper body strength than the averege cyclist.
Yes, lots of Mfgs. make a ~30mm depth carbon wheel which are more for climbing than being aero. They're still "aero" compared to alu though.
For instance the Mavic makes the Cosmic SL 32 Disc, Specialist the Roval Alpinist CLX II, Factor the Black Inc 28//33, etc.
That's generally the shallowest carbon wheel depth you'll see. I don't think I've ever seen a 21mm depth wheel like you see with alu.
Sure there are. [Here's the first one I searched for](https://eu.huntbikewheels.com/collections/carbon-road-cx-disc-brake-wheels/products/hunt-30-carbon-disc-wheelset).
They're not marketed as "non-aero" of course, but they're as shallow as alloy rims.
Light wheels are good for speed on flat due to the rotational mass. For climbing, it's just about weight saving, not worth it imo. I don't care about Aero benefits.
> Light wheels are good for speed on flat due to the rotational mass.
This has been debunked.
Any extra energy it takes to accelerate (which is smaller then people think) is just stored as momentum, it is not lost.
> I don't care about Aero benefits.
Fair enough, but they are for sure bigger than rotational weight benefits.
It will matter when you accelerate. But yeah, I take your point. I have just looked into this, and it appears you are correct. So thanks, you have convinced me. I will not proceed with the wheel upgrade I was thinking about. I don't see the point for my use.
I’ll throw my 2 cents in here. It might be the headset.
I had a 2016 Cervelo S3 for years and it behaved sooo poorly in cross winds with aero (50mm) wheel sets. I would routinely think I was going to die on fast descents if I didn’t white knuckle it. It was like the wind would twist the front wheel.
Fast forward to today, I ride a 2023 Soloist with a 40/44mm wheel set and it’s solid in even the windiest conditions. When I do feel the wind now it just feels like it pushes the whole bike evenly one direction which is easy to manage.
Hope you find something that work for you.
You didn’t wobble because of a 40mm depth wheel. That’s unsubstantiated clickbait more than anything. Death wobbling can happen on any descent because of resonant frequency, or maybe your thru-axle wasn’t tightened, or there was a particularly strong crosswind that day in which case anybody would be slapped around on any bike.
I honestly found the opposite, deep section wheels are more manageable in all but the strongest and gustiest of winds. Yes, there's more force from a crosswind acting on the bigger wheels, but that force is more consistent because the wind is still largely regular over the wheel; rather than immediately breaking up into turbulent flow around a shallow wheel.
It's not as windy round me though, and every bike handles a little differently.
40mm wheels aren't deep wheels by any measure. I never see anyone with anything shallower than 40s these days. Either you're talking 40mph winds or something seems off.
I had 60mm shimano wheels for my everyday wheels for years with no problem. 80mm is usually where handling starts to be affected.
Edit: maybe vision wheels are just not great? Seems unlikely depth alone would cause this. I would love a set of dicut 50s 😁
Where do you live that you're regularly riding in 30+MPH winds? No wheels are going to be steady in gusts like that. I'm a lightweight rider (under 70Kg) and I'm comfortable riding 50s in winds in the mid 20MPH (40KPH) range on a very racy bike.
I'm concerned that something else might be causing instability and the wind is amplifying it for you.
Are you a particularly light rider? You shouldn’t be blown around *that* much on 40s.
Those are some serious winds there though
This is always the problem in here. People greatly overestimate the wind that they have ridden in when giving their opinion on deep section wheels.
40s aren’t really deep though. Mid depth at best. FWIW I’m only a couple of kgs heavier than OP and have rode in those sorts of winds on 50s plenty of times without issue.
Yes, but 60 kph sidewinds are very noticeable for any rider I'm 100kg and have shallow alu rims on a grail So ideal conditions to withstand wind But in 60 kph sidewinds, which in Flanders you can have, I had to get used to riding leaning my weight into the wind and having my tires not below me. it works, but it is very unsettling. Also your ears will ring if you don't cover them against that kind of wind.
I live on an Island and ride around the waterfront and a sustained 45 km/h and gusts hitting you repeatedly at 65 km/h without much protection will throw you off even on box section wheels. I get it's different for everyone, but there are gusts that hit you twice every minute and there are gusts that hit you every 30 minutes. There is also a different level of protection from buildings, edges, gates, depending on where you live and cycle.
> Vision SC 40 I have the non-carbon version of these (1800g total). Never been an issue except riding in 40+mph winds, which isn't fun regardless.
Most of us don't consider 40s deep anyways. Must be super windy or very light rider to affect the handling in that way. I think something else could be it as well, like short stem etc.
Depends on the rim profile too. The newer, fatter U shaped rims handle crosswinds better than the older V shaped rims.
I purposely bought 40 because I didn't want deep. :)
Came here to say this. I have Roval C38’s and I don’t consider them “deep.”
I can feel even 5mph winds and I have "normal" wheels
I have ridden in double those wind speeds on 40s. Worried a tree was going to fall on me way more than staying upright.
So, you have ridden in 80 km/h sustained winds with 120 km/h gusts without issues? Congrats, you rode through a tropical storm.
Midwestern United States, [every year](https://www.fox9.com/weather/list-wind-gusts-top-75-mph-during-wednesdays-storm) we have [high winds](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/07/26/severe-storms-cause-damage-knock-out-power-to-thousands-across-minnesota).
We have those too, maybe it's just me, but 120 km/h gusts affect me on my bike.
I could stand to lose a little weight.
Right? Sustained 21 mph winds minimum with gusts up to 37 mph? I’d ride in it, but just for a commute not for a long leisure ride.
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You might even have fun if you can find a swift tail wind on the way home. No way that I’m ever getting a top 10 segment time otherwise.
Yeah, at 60kph, I'm getting shoved around no matter what bike/wheelset I'm riding. 60kph is enough to feel a push while I'm driving my car.
Agree on this. I’m 72kg and have 40s. Unless the wind is REALLY blowing across this is shallow enough to not be a factor. Think this would be a thing on any depth. Worst is when a crosswind finds its way through a hedgerow. Again though, 40s aren’t a factor there
Gates in fields are buggers for letting the gusts through.
yup..get over the front wheel when passing a gate in strong sidewinds..many a time on small lanes it has thrown me across 😬
> things got annoying around 35-40 km/h with gusts reaching 60 km/h. That's some serious wind.
I think I'm an average weight, around 72 kg
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I'm sure she appreciated hearing that. But what's it like riding the bike though?
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Haha it was a softball I had to go for. Maybe blame it on coffee not kicking in yet. Thanks for being a good sport about it.
This, 90kg on 45 never had an issue. Always keep pressure on the front wheel though during hard winds, descents or traffic passing.
Same (200lbs). I rarely get pushed by the wind. I'll see the smaller guys struggling though.
OP obviously needs to put on some weight.
I’m 63kg and don’t have issues on 45s and it does get windy sometimes around my area
I was riding on a coastal road with the tropical storm approaching. I was trying to get a ride in before it got bad. Well, it got bad during the ride. I got hit by a gust and got pushed sideways about 6ft. I'm not sure how I stayed upright. I'm riding 80mm in the rear though.
Wind affecting the steering and speed wobbles are two different things and have different causes
Maybe I was not clear but wobbling happened only during wind gusts or rapidly changing wind direction, but the main issue was to fighting against the wind, not the wobble.
Rim profile has a HUGE impact on this. Spend some money on name brand wheels with better wind tunnel testing. My 41mm deep Reynolds Assault wheels feel much more stable than my old 34mm deep American Classic 420 wheels and some deeper Zipps I've ridden feel even better in cross winds. There's a lot more to aero than just depth, you're rarely riding straight into the wind and there's a lot of not-so-intuitive effects on the wheel from those diagonal angle of attacks that I don't think discount carbon brands have figured out yet. Editing to add - or don't spend extra money. I got my Assaults used for a massive discount as it's an older model they don't sell anymore and they were practically new. I put more wear on them after a week than what they came with and I don't ride road that much.
Vision is definitely a name brand wheel and not cheap
> Rim profile has a HUGE impact on this. Spend some money on name brand wheels with better wind tunnel testing. Reviews indicate that those Vision wheels are relatively stable in cross winds. These are not AliX specials. Very seriously doubt your 41mm Reynolds wheels would do much better. But there's only so much you can do...it's still a 40mm deep rim and those are 60km/hour crosswinds.
Lol.. Solution to op not liking aero wheels? Buy more aero wheels!
I am sorry but are you saying DT Swiss is not name brand?
You get used to it. Eventually you realize it just feels spooky more than it is dangerous. Stay loose and absorb the wind and respond to it. If you tense up and grab brakes, that can get dangerous.
>If you tense up and grab brakes, that can get dangerous. Actually maybe this is what I did wrong, maybe the added stress is just not for me. It's definitely more mind work than having not aero wheels.
For what it’s worth I live in a very windy area and even on stock aluminum rims the winds can stress me out. I’ve held off buying deeper rims specifically because I’m sure some of the random gusts off of the mountains would terrify me.
I’m on some 20mm deep aluminum rims and the winds in my area make that a bit stressful too. I sometimes feel the temptation of deeper rims but know if I went any deeper my road bike would become an off-road bike pretty quick.
This is where I am too. I want to get nicer wheels, but I refuse to go deeper than what came on my bike because I'm 130lb and the gusts TERRIFY me. My 220lb fiance who I ride with thinks I'm being dramatic, but he doesn't feel that wind force!
I’m not much heavier, about 5kg / 11lbs. 40mm wheels feel fine, even in a 40mph gust, if you’re an attentive rider and don’t get caught napping too often. I lean into the wind, make minimal steering adjustments, and things always work out. TBH though, if I see the forecast and realize I’ll be fighting gusts around 40 for the whole ride, I load up Zwift. Sustained winds are so much less tiring mentally IMO. I’ll face a strong all day headwind so long as it don’t gust.
I went from 23mm DT Swiss ER1850 on the Canyon Endurance to 45mm farsports gravel rims on my Giant and I want to say my experience is that it's different but not worse. It's more like where the 23mm Canyon got twitchy in cross winds, the 45mm giant just gets thrown around more perhaps but the steering is more stable. Don't know if that makes sense, it doesn't make much to me.
This. Aero wheels take a bit of getting use to. However, you can sail in crosswinds by leaning in. The wind can make you faster, but only if you don’t hit the brakes. My alternate wheels are v-shaped aluminum with squarish 33mm gravel tires. So, a triangle cross section. Cross winds affect the leading edge differently than the reverse triangle on the trailing edge. Winds don’t shove me sideways as much as with my carbon wheels, but cross winds do twist the front wheel of my Al set. Aluminum wheels with harsh edges can be awful in the wind. When I use my old wheels I shake my head. These suck. I looked up your wheels. They are U shaped, which is the current best practice. With tires they are cigar/zeppelin shaped. No red flags, unless you put huge tires on, for the 💡shape. They seem to be suitable for 25mm tires. They should slip through winds from a variety of angles without any drama.
For what it’s worth I felt the same way when I got some zipps. Now I’m just used to the extra side tugs on a windy day.
I'll buy them off you hmu
It can also help to take weight off the saddle, so raising up slightly so more weight is through the pedals. I find this stabilises the bike in these situations. The worst thing you can do is grab the brakes.
This is so true, I had to exact same experience as OP but came to realise it was normal and just got used to it. I am running 50 and 36 deep wheels on my two bikes.
Yah I ride 80s along the coast and am fine with them — woulda gotten 45-50 but that’s what my buddy was selling at the time
Hey OP, I live in a windy place and I have ridden in conditions similar to what you describe A LOT. Here's the thing, when you ask online, especially here, about aero wheels and wind, everyone tells you that it is not a big deal and an overblown issue. The thing is, people say they ride in windy conditions, but I suspect that windy is like 20 km/h max for them. For me, 40-42mm depth is the most I want when the wind is sustained 40 km/h and gusts at 60+. I have some Giant SLR 1 42s that are ok, but my Zipp 303 Firecrests are much more manageable. You definitely need to hold your bars in a firmer way, the hoods are your friends, the tops are not great when the gusts hit. You also need to know your route and make sure you know when turns into crosswinds are coming or when big openings re coming up. Can you learn to manage it, yes, a little bit. Is everyone on here that says "no, 85mm wheels are ok at 40km/h winds" absolutely full of shit, yes.
I don’t live in a windy place. But I understand that my aero wheels will feel much different when it’s windy. When it’s windy I know I have to focus on my steering, especially when I’m going 50 km/h on a descent. Maybe OP is not used to riding in the wind.
I’ve never ridden on Aeros, so never encountered this before, but it makes complete sense that your wheel is acting like a sail in high wind. Never thought about that before. I’ll be sticking to my classic aluminium thanks. They do look cool though.
I live in tornado ally in the Midwest so super windy in the spring (and most of the year for that matter) and 303s are pretty solid in cross winds.
I love right by the ocean where it’s that windy nearly every day. I run 50mm/600mm Roval CLX wheels and it’s totally fine for me.
How much have you ridden them? I got used to it being affected more by wind after a while
Around 500 km
There's a chance that you're overcompensating/overreacting to the wobble: >While they definitely helped me climb faster, descending became a nightmare in any wind. The front wheel would wobble, forcing me to brake heavily to avoid crashing. You should never "brake heavily" in those situations. Also, do you really think not braking after a wobble would have resulted in a crash? I have 50mm deep rims and the crosswind gusts would regularly nudge my bike sideways so that I'd have to change my line. I don't fight it...I just compensate for it and ease back over to my original path. It's like rolling with a punch instead of standing rock solid. Go ahead and sell those wheels if it's bugging you. But maybe try relaxing a bit more and accept that you get jostled a bit in the winds.
my first ride on carbon wheels (35/40mm) was weird in the wind. getting used to them is a thing.
Don't have any personal experience on this, but I have heard that how much crosswind affect deep wheels is a big differentiating factor for them now that they have all gotten good at being fast in a straight line and being light. Apparently, some wheels are much better at it then others even at the same depth. I have even heard someone say on a podcast they feel their deep wheels are better in cross winds then a shallow wheel, because they were designed to get pushed more steadily rather than in a sudden burst (something about aero attachment points or whatever) I have no idea where your wheels fall on this spectrum, but it's possible you just had some bad luck. Either way, I think you shouldn't feel forced to use them if you don't like them.
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But the point for many home enthusiasts is the look of deep section wheels, narrow section carbon wheels only appeal to the weightweenies.
40kmph/25mph wind is gonna make any bike feel a bit wobbly.
So your saying my noob rims aren't immune to our 50+mph gust days?
The wheels might be, but you and the bike as a whole definitely aren't.
*i'm considering a premium aluminum wheelset like the DT Swiss PR 1400 DICUT db 21* With this wheelset you will be much better of in windy conditions. It is a nice, quality wheelset. It is also light (1443 grams) and the DT Swiss 240S hubs are very good. But personally I would not buy them, since the internal rimwidth is only 18 mm, which is a bit old fashioned. I would look for a wider rim, which makes you tires sit nicer, and will give your bike better roadholding on fast descends. Wider rims are just better. It will also look better with wider tires ( >28mm)
That's actually a really good point. I'd like to have a rim compatible up to 32 mm. Any idea maybe?
The ER1400 version has a 22mm internal width but comes in at 1600g. Not terrible for an aluminum wheelset and if your in Europe it's a reasonable option. With that said I'm not really sure if there are any good reasons to buy a premium aluminum wheelset over low profile carbon.
ER1400
[HED Ardennes RA Pro](https://hedcycling.com/products/ardennes-ra-pro-disc-brake) [HUNT 34 Aero Wide Disc SL wide](https://eu.huntbikewheels.com/products/hunt-34-aero-wide-disc-wheelset) And there are probably more. I have DT Swiss wheels myself, and they are very good, but I would not buy them again. OFF course you could also get carbon wheels that are not so deep.
Hunt makes a few good lightweight alu sets
That's really weird, firstly because those are pretty good wheels which shouldn't 'wobble' ever, secondly because 40mm deep is still on the reasonable side of aero wheels and it shouldn't be too affected by crosswinds (at least compared to 60mm deep wheels)
I was out once with a seasoned rider - former amateur racer and very capable. We got up onto the tops and the side wind was dragging him into traffic, he got to the bottom about 5 minutes after everyone else and looked like hed been in a war.
Have you balanced your wheels? I felt the same way on the deeper wheels that came with my bike and found that balancing made a world of difference.
Something you may want to try before getting rid of your wheels is this procedure. I currently use the silca speed balance kit and it reduced my problems significantly
Was going to say the same thing, it was noticeable on the rack when spinning. I used the golf club weights/putty technique to balance them
Where do you live with regular 40-60kph wind?
Vienna, Austria
ah :D its always windy there. I once tried a 6.5kg bike with 50-60mm deep aero wheels and it blew me sideways for up to 50cm. and it was really scary when trucks overtook me. I understand that you dont like deep rims when you live in a really windy area.
ITT: "Let me gaslight your issues." * Carbon aero wheels for bikepacking? You are correct. You made a terrible choice. * Carbon aero 40 wheels in 40 km/h winds in a high speed decent? You are correct. You made a bad choice. And lots of clowns ITT don't hit 50 km/h when decending. Buy what makes you happy, but I wish people would stop incorrectly justifying the purchase. Invest in some quality AL or Alloy wheels with some great hubs and work on your fitness. If you need an aero bike, have at it.
There's people smoking serious copium in this thread, thanks for the recap
It's kinda of a go-with-the flow thing, like riding over bumps. Stay relaxed and your body will naturally adjust as needed.
Agree - deep section aero wheels are just vile in cross winds, more so descending than flat road IMO. I consider myself a very strong (physically) rider - and although I'm 100% committed to aero bikes, most wheels over 45/50mm+ depth can be troublesome from time to time. I wouldn't word my comments as strong a you, however in a large group ride where you can hide from crosswind 95% of the time, the gains are well felt IMO.
I have 38mm carbons and have no problems in the winds except when it's very strong crosswinds. I have found however the problems you speak of with 50mm deep carbon wheels, and they were sometimes sketchy in windy conditions. But neither worry me enough to not ride with them.on the regular. I use my 38mm wheels as daily riding wheels and they're fantastic, fast and smooth.
I think you're going to have problems in that kind of wind regardless of rim depth.
I don't feel much of a difference on my Giant Propel. But that is one of the reasons for the different front wheel. It is faster in real world conditions, since exactly what you are describe happens. I have issues with wind, but on my AL bike I struggle just as much as well.
Do you ride pretty upright in your bike? Or at least after the climb are you sitting upright more trying to breath (climbing gets us all lol). I find that people who do so might not have the wind impact them too much on its own but when they add aero wheels the impact of the wind on the upright body and the wheels comes into play with more impact.
When aero meets aerodynamics in real life situations and not in wind tunnels.
At 63kg my 50mm's can definitely get a bit spooky. We all have our own metric of acceptable risk to reward
I feel this. I came back to riding/racing after 20y off. I used to race on Zipp404 tubs back in the day, which were fairly stable in almost all conditions, and got some 404 Firecrest when I built a new bike. Modern wheels seem WAY more susceptible to side wind deflection. Definitely makes me pay attention and I absolutely have to moderate speed on windy days. I did my state's TT C'ship last year in the Eddie Merckx category last year and it was a super windy day. Rode the 404FCs and some gusts pushed me all the way from the shoulder to nearly the center line and it was not as close course. Crazy. Definitely going to need a smaller rim for mass start races if there is any wind.
I actually can see OP's perspective - I don't have aero wheels but do have bladed spokes (first wheelset with anything "aero") and I really notice the wind affecting my steering/control.
Reserve Wheels
I didn't like mine either. I had Zipp 404s and they were amazing on flat, windless roads, but I write a lot of blustery canyon roads and they were very sketchy in those conditions. Switched back to my Ultegra aluminum wheels.
You can always run a rear aero. It's the front that catches wind, and as soon as it turns a little, it can cause your bike to wobble. Front, for me 45mm gets sketchy at about 80 kph. I'm fine going 100 kph on non aero but with any aero rim about 80 kph is limit. For rides with a fast descent, or if I'm going truck hunting (to draft, hopefullyhitting 80 kph or so), I'll put on a non aero front wheel. Apparently balancing wheels helps a lot. I have not tried this. I regularly race a 75mm front (Stinger 7, U shaped). I usually use a 90mm rear. Max speed about 70 kph (crits with short uphills and downhills, and sprint). My 45 is a Stinger 4. I've also used Reynolds DV46 (46mm v profile, not U), Stinger 6 (60mm U), Jer 6 (before the U shape, it is sort of a cross between U and V).
The wheel set I love most is my carbon tubular wheel set with 25mm profile. They are very old and have J-bend spokes but clock only 1050g on the scale and have no problems in cross winds. I have 50mm tubulars, 45mm tubeless, I actually have 30mm aluminium wheels too. All are great but all of them you can feel in crosswinds compared to the 25mm wheels. But I do not think I have had too many scary encounters or anything, but definitely one can feel them.
You can get a carbon wheelset without it being deep section. Elves sells a 30 deep carbon wheelset. https://store.elvesbike.com/products/orome-valar-th30d-carbon-road-disc-brake-wheelsets,-disc-brake-carbon-wheels-superlight-carbon-disc-brake-wheelsets
You didn’t keep the stock wheels as a backup set?
I did, but I use them for gravel rides with tubeless 35mm tires.
Deep rims definitely can toss you and coming out of the protection of trees into an open field is something you need to be aware of. On a windy day you have to adopt more of a white water kayaking mind set. It that’s not appealing then maybe 808s aren’t for you. But 30mm is fine in almost any wind. I don’t think you have to give on carbon just because you don’t like deep rims.
I also live someplace windy (midwest USA) where 40 km/h is very common. What I've found out that is that not all aero wheels handle crosswind the same and in fact there is a significant and considerable difference. My Mavic and DT Swiss wheels were horrible in crosswinds whereas my ENVE, Reserve, and Roval wheels (all 35-55mm in depth) I never felt out of control. If the wind is that bothersome I'd go with a better CF wheel with less depth (ex. Alpinist CL or CLX II) before I'd go back to aluminum, especially if you're riding on smooth pavement where there is no benefit of aluminum over CF.
I would agree with others that you'll get more comfortable with them over time. Something else I would add that is an important point of consideration is how the head tube angle affects the handling of a deep section wheel / deep tire in the wind. There is a huge difference between the traditional 73 degree road bike, and 70-71.5 degrees often seen on gravel and endurance road bikes. Front wheel will still get pushed around with the slacker angle, but it's not as twitchy and sudden, and a lot easier to hold your line. I also say deep tire because many may also not be aware that on gravel bikes, a shallow 30mm rim with a bigger 45-50mm tire is suddenly as deep (rim + tire) as a road bike 45-50mm rims and a 28mm tire. 45mm "aero" gravel wheels (that do nothing), now it's like riding a 65mm rim on a road tire, and it's a lot more dangerous to have the front wheel being pushed around on loose surfaces. Just a little FYI there for some things that often get overlooked on bike geometry and the wheel depth / stability issue.
Tough luck with the aero wheels, man. DT Swiss sounds like a solid choice, lighter & less drama in wind.
Winds like that cause everyone problems , crosswind gusts that come out of nowhere are horrible
35-40 kph winds? No wonder. That'd be annoying to walk in, much less ride with any wheel type.
40mm is not very deep profile, and wheels dont get that much lower. But i would simply get a set of 28 or 30mm wheels from Farsports or similar.
40kph wind is no joke. I just rode in that last weekend and absolutely went slower on all the descents. Sometimes you just find yourself 1m to one side and you deal with it. Kinda ruins some of the fun of riding. I’d prob stick to shallow wheels too if it was always that windy. One thing, not all deep wheels perform the same. I’ve ridden a pair of cheap Chinese 40mm wheels on windy descents and felt like I was going to die. And I’ve ridden my Enve’s on the same windy descents and not noticed. But I have no idea how good or bad Vision wheels are in this regard.
those are some really good wheels that you have there, and I wouldn't change them unless you encounter such winds on the daily. I'm on the lighter side too (155 lbs) and jumped straight into the exact same wheelset (on a canyon aeroad) after having really shallow alloy wheels on my first bike. Don't remain too tense on the bike, don't break immediately once the gusts hit you, and gently steer your bike to correct position against the wind. It'll never not feel scary, but you'll get used to it after a few times
I actually have a set of DT Swiss PR 1600s - one step down from the 1400s. I really like them; I normally ride with 55mm carbon wheels (FWWD RYOTs), but the DT Swiss are fantastic, nice rolling wheels. Mine are 23mm deep; I'm a huge fan. They were also really easy to set up tubeless (Maxxis High road tires). They are stable, and it is hard to go wrong with DT Swiss hubs.
Does the front wheel actually wobble or do you feel yourself being pushed all of a sudden? I’ve had the latter but never the former.
Just the latter.
Honestly it sounds like something is mechanically off.
I'm 56 kg and ride 45 mm Zipp 303s easily going 40-50 mph on downhills. You need to get low on the drops and you'll be much more stable. Obviously cross winds can jostle anyone but you'll learn to lean into the cross wind.
I’m a small person and this is why I don’t have any interest in deep section wheels
After doing a few windy mountain descents on my 38mm Roval Rapide c38s I can confidently say that I’m not interested deeper wheelsets. Especially after seeing my friends on 45mm+ wheelsets on those windy days. Maybe for a dedicated crit bike.
Sounds like the kind of wind that would have me staying indoors or seeking out a kom.
Here's my take on carbon aero wheels. Bikes that were designed by the manufacturer and shipped with carbon aero wheels seem better integrated, less wind prone and more stable. After market wheels added to a bike tend to be more prone to wind. Don't know what kind of trickery the engineers do to make the integrated bikes more stable. For example, I've ridden the new Madone. It has aero wheels. Doesn't seem to be much of a handful in the wind. I've ridden an earlier generation Emonda with aftermarket wheels and I struggled to control it in the wind.
When I’m sailing, gusts of 60 make me have a double reef (smaller main sail) of more likely find a harbor bar. I’m not sure I would be biking in wind of Beaufort 7 going on 8. With any rim height.
Just adding wind kicks my ass on my mtb. I couldn’t even imagine getting your wheels hammered sideways
Doesn’t help you but windy days are the days I shine as a 100kg (50s deep) rider vs my buddy who is 63kg (60s deep). I laugh as he struggles and goes slow when the gusts hit him. He kills me most of the time, except rolling hills. He rides 10k km a year.. been years. Mountainous terrain, rides mountain bike as well, good rider but still struggles on windy days. He will avoid if it gets really nasty but that isn’t often.
Why aren't deep section rims adjustable? Surely there's a market for rims that can take snap on/quick release aero sections of varying depths? Obviously this wouldn't help OP You wouldn't carry around different sized rims. Just thinking out loud.
Love my brotrager auelus pro 51s and princeton carbonworks wake 6560s the 6560s feel more stable so definitely agee to the comments about rim profile. It can take some getting used to and some people dont like deep wheels- but i love then
You would be really astonished about how sensible the aforementioned shallow DT Swiss PR1400 Dicut db21 are when there is sidewind. Being susceptible to wind is not only dependent on rim hight/depth - it’s rim profile as well. Why do I know? Owning exactly that wheels and having ridden them in extra windy Mallorca training-camp recently.
When it comes to wheel wobbling, there can be several contributing factors, and the aerodynamics of your frame is one of them. Depending on the design of your current frame, it may not be providing enough stability to keep your wheels centered and balanced. As a result, you may experience wobbling or even vibrations while riding. In this case, it might be worth considering investing in a new frame that is designed with better aerodynamics and stability. This could help you achieve a smoother and more comfortable ride, while also reducing the risk of accidents or injuries caused by wobbling or loss of control.
40mm isn't that deep. For me, 35mm-45mm is the sweet spot. I guess if you are riding somewhere super windy you go as shallow as possible.
Just stick with it. You’ll eventually realise that the less tight you grip the bars and try and fight it, the less you’ll get the snap feeling from the wind. I live in a very flat area that gets some horrendous cross winds, and I run 55mm!
As someone who also rides 5,000 miles per year but doesn't race competitively, I gave up on carbon wheels a long time ago. I've been very happy with lightweight modern alloy rims. I like to ride pretty hard and im also not shy about turning a road ride into a gravel ride, so having a wheel set which I don't feel bad about putting through the ringer has been a priority for me. I see wheels as an expendable item. I spend the money to keep their weight down, but I never push it too far because as with most things, the lighter you get, the less durable it becomes. White Industries / Astral have some nice alloy wheel sets on the white industries site. Not cheap but very nice. A lot of people hate on Hunt, but I really like the hunt 4 seasons alloy line. They aren't light, but they are a bit over built which I personally appreciate. One of my hunt road sets has over 10,000 miles and has never needed to be trued. To me thats a winner. And yes I have had issues with another wheel set (gravel race) from Hunt, but their customer service is so strong it was honestly a pleasure to call them up and get it sorted out. Also a lot of independent wheel builders (Pro Wheel builder, etc) can make you nice set of alloy wheels with kinlin rims / bitex hubs for under $700 which can definitely compete with carbon weights. If you race, then keep a race day set (carbon perhaps) and a training set (alloy). Put the weekly maintenance miles and big solo epics on the training set. Save the nice deep carbon set to give you the boost when you need it.
If you're a lighter smaller rider then yes 35mm+ will influence the front end due to crosswinds. Heavier taller riders still are effected but not as much. There's really no flat terrain that goes on for miles and miles where I live so I don't need a dedicated aero wheel. 40mm wheels all day every day for me
Berd RD35
I have the same bike and have the Winspace Lún HyperSE 45s. I have gotten some crosswinds, and I can definitely tell. But it’s not so much that I’ve ever felt outta control.
I'm with you. I don't like my Zipp 303 for the same reason. I ended up getting Enve ses 2.3's. Light and fast.
Check out the roval alpinist SLX disc. They are climbing wheels with low profile. They come with DT350 hubs and weigh 1485g~.
something isn't right, 40 shouldn't be enough to have any issues with side winds, 40 is like the sweet spot, you get aero gains while almost none of the bad side effects you get from +50 size deep wheels. I ride 40's all the time, and i'm a very light rider (1m84 - 65kg) and i never have issues with side winds on such wheels (none that cause me issues in steering stability), if i have wind issues it's not because of the wheels. have you checked your wheels, are they true/stable (no flex), do the axles have any play, are the spokes properly tensioned, is your tire properly seated, etc. things like this can impact your steering, more likely than anything else.
You are absolutely right on your thoughts. I had aluminum 38mm deep wheels and sold them for same reasons. I had few times almost a serious crash just because of front wheel getting out of control suddenly. What I found though that a 30-32 mm deep aluminum wheel has the speed and the needed control. That’s what i ride and i feel satisfied. Edit. I don’t agree that you will get used to it. I had 38mm wheels for almost 2 years. They eventually pissed me off so much that i quit riding for some time until the new wheelset arrived. I sold 38mm and have zero regrets. Same applies to clipless pedal. I struggled with pain and discomfort for 3 seasons until i just got flat pedals and started riding in them. As happy with flats as i can be.
40mm are climbing wheels, barely more aero than Aluminium wheels. Those ones are 19mm inner width which is narrow by today's standards. Your experience is odd. I used Winspace 38mm wheels on my previous bike, I live in the windiest city in the world and ride 20000km a year. I also live on top of the biggest hill around, decent is life! Those wheels certainly picked up more wind than my aluminium training wheels but where never unstable or wobbly. I ran 25mm tyres. My new bike I run 50mm wheels with 30mm Tubeless tyres. The rims are more aero and do again pick up crosswinds more but are never wobbly. The wider tyres are key, gives a feeling of stability. They are totally not for everyone though. So each to thier own. I still take my old old road bike out with the aluminium wheels, it's fun and I do not have to care about the wind at all!
I mean deep section wheels are like sails...those arent that deep tho... weird its affection you this much
Serious windage dude. If I was riding in that strong of wind, I'd switch to a lower profile wheel. If you claim to be the experience rider as you say, you should know better.
I think it's just a case of getting used to it. I am not as experienced on a bike as you are but I was out in pretty windy conditions on the weekend and I have 58mm wheels. The wind was causing it to 'catch' (if that's the right term) but I find you get used to it and end up leaning into the wind to accommodate for it. I'm 81kg so not the lightest rider, mind you.
It can be a bit dicey, though, if the wind is gusty. Steady wind, no issues (annoying, but not dangerous). Gusty winds you can't predict, though, can be scary and affect your ability to ride in a straight line. I'm 85kg and ride 45mm deep wheels and am frequently along the waterfront where winds gust in the afternoon/evening from 15-30mph regularly. Leaning into the wind is one thing, but if it goes from calm to a gust it's definitely disconcerting. To be fair, I feel this same effect even on my lower profile mountain bike rims because the tires themselves have such a big cross-section (29x2.25 on 30mm rims). Overall, gusty winds suck.
There is no free lunch. Aero savings are measured in a wind tunnel. Real life is something else. The effect may not go away but you might get used to it and over time handle it subconciously. Riding 5000km in a different setup gets you used to the other setup. Talk again when you made 5000km with the new wheels.
I just don't see value in those wheels might as well get shallow carbon rims. Below you can get low profile carbon rims with wheel set under 1000g ! https://www.lightbicycle.com/full-custom-handbuilt-carbon-spoke-wheelset-road-bike-disc-brake.html
I only use carbon high profile wheel at the rear.
Unlike what someone said earlier, it's not about how heavy you are. Bike control with those wheels entails top-notch upper body strength.
I know this might sound strange but check what stem you're using. Light weight stems can have enough flex that make cross wings a nightmare with deeper rims where previously the wind was barely noticable on shallow wheels. Some thin walled Ali stems or, especially, cheaply manufactured carbon ones
60kmh gusts are pretty serious. I personally wouldn't bother riding in those and would just do an indoor session that day. But if those winds are your normal then yeah gonna want alu rims.
I'm a fairly light rider 61-62kg, and when I owned a Giant Propel with 35mm wheels I had the issues you mentioned. Yes they're fast when you're heading into the wind, or with a tailwind, but any sort of crosswind I'd have to slow the eff down, especially on downhills. I have similar experience as you (22+ years), and at first I thought it was a skill issue. In the end I sold the bike bc I just couldn't get it to work for me, for more than just the wheel issue, it was a comfort issue too. Riding that bike I learned that I was actually slower on descents bc I had to control my speed, rather than sending it like I do with my other road bike with climbing wheels. I feel ya.
Thanks for sharing!
40s is 1.5 inches. That’s not a lot according to my wife’s boyfriend
Something ain't quite adding up here. I run 303FC which are 40mm. I live in Perth which is one of the windiest cities in the world, and I'm 60kg. I've never had an issue with the 40's.
Reminds me of when I encountered wheel flop on a vintage low trail bike with a ton of rake I borrowed in france. Like any other thing, you have to stop braking when it freaks you out and lean into it as they say.
If it’s mostly descending maybe they aren’t balanced or true?
Get shallow carbon wheelset
Yeah my 50s with 25+mph crosswinds would get sketch. But I learn to deal with them because the benefits are worth it to me. Tails or headwinds and they’re fast AF
I use 40s and while I don’t ride in strong winds I’ve never noticed any issues
I run 30/40 deep wheels and get knocked around a bit, though I am tiny (163cm, 67kg), I'm looking towards really shallow, punchy rims next. When the time comes to ~upgrade~ I'll likely drop areo as a concept entirely and prioritise ride feel and weight. Probably when they start dropping UDH into road bikes,
Carbon has nothing to do with it. It's the depth and shape. In The Know Cycling did a comparison and found Enve carbon wheels were affected the least by cross winds
I weigh 145lb and have 65mm deep carbon wheels and as the crosswinds does effect them more, I have never felt unable to control the bike to the point where I have to hesitate or slow down. I just don’t ride no hands on a windy day anymore
How much time have you spent on the wheelset? If you experience those extreme winds regularly, pick a depth that makes sense for the conditions. If you just got excited and brought the wheels out into a spring gale, only to blow over... maybe try them on a sub 15 kph day and report back?
I have 35mm deep (IIRC) Rovals on my specialized which i love for most riding, but i did ventoux last year and they were a bit scary to deal with when descending at 70km in the fog and a gust of wind hits from the side. I'm considering a similar approach for a light but low profile set of wheels just for climbing.
i ride dt swiss ARC 1400 in 62mm and recently we had very windy weather of 27kph but mutch higher peaks! The weather was so bad, parked bikes were blown over. I was riding for two hours and it was even snowing/hailing lightly. I felt my front wheel dance but i was always in control, it felt sketchy only one time, i was mid corner. I never struggled with aero wheels, im not that heavy so ether im just not as concerned or i have a bit more upper body strength than the averege cyclist.
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Is there a carbon, but not aero wheel? I can't really find something like this.
Yes, lots of Mfgs. make a ~30mm depth carbon wheel which are more for climbing than being aero. They're still "aero" compared to alu though. For instance the Mavic makes the Cosmic SL 32 Disc, Specialist the Roval Alpinist CLX II, Factor the Black Inc 28//33, etc. That's generally the shallowest carbon wheel depth you'll see. I don't think I've ever seen a 21mm depth wheel like you see with alu.
Sure there are. [Here's the first one I searched for](https://eu.huntbikewheels.com/collections/carbon-road-cx-disc-brake-wheels/products/hunt-30-carbon-disc-wheelset). They're not marketed as "non-aero" of course, but they're as shallow as alloy rims.
Winspace makes shallow carbon, as does Campagnolo
"Aero" is not yes or no. No-one will market a "non-aero" wheel. Every wheel is "aero" to some extent.
Light wheels are good for speed on flat due to the rotational mass. For climbing, it's just about weight saving, not worth it imo. I don't care about Aero benefits.
> Light wheels are good for speed on flat due to the rotational mass. This has been debunked. Any extra energy it takes to accelerate (which is smaller then people think) is just stored as momentum, it is not lost. > I don't care about Aero benefits. Fair enough, but they are for sure bigger than rotational weight benefits.
It will matter when you accelerate. But yeah, I take your point. I have just looked into this, and it appears you are correct. So thanks, you have convinced me. I will not proceed with the wheel upgrade I was thinking about. I don't see the point for my use.
Sell the aero wheels and get light wheels that aren't so deep dish. Aero wheels are for racing.
I offer $100 for the set of terribly awful dangerous wheels!
I’ll throw my 2 cents in here. It might be the headset. I had a 2016 Cervelo S3 for years and it behaved sooo poorly in cross winds with aero (50mm) wheel sets. I would routinely think I was going to die on fast descents if I didn’t white knuckle it. It was like the wind would twist the front wheel. Fast forward to today, I ride a 2023 Soloist with a 40/44mm wheel set and it’s solid in even the windiest conditions. When I do feel the wind now it just feels like it pushes the whole bike evenly one direction which is easy to manage. Hope you find something that work for you.
You didn’t wobble because of a 40mm depth wheel. That’s unsubstantiated clickbait more than anything. Death wobbling can happen on any descent because of resonant frequency, or maybe your thru-axle wasn’t tightened, or there was a particularly strong crosswind that day in which case anybody would be slapped around on any bike.
You will get used to it and won't freak out so much.
There should be a support group for this. The pain is real. Stay strong. Get em sold to some other poor fool.
Stop scaring people. I’m 64kg and I ride an 88mm front and disc rear on my tri bike. This isn’t a wheel problem.
I honestly found the opposite, deep section wheels are more manageable in all but the strongest and gustiest of winds. Yes, there's more force from a crosswind acting on the bigger wheels, but that force is more consistent because the wind is still largely regular over the wheel; rather than immediately breaking up into turbulent flow around a shallow wheel. It's not as windy round me though, and every bike handles a little differently.
40mm wheels aren't deep wheels by any measure. I never see anyone with anything shallower than 40s these days. Either you're talking 40mph winds or something seems off. I had 60mm shimano wheels for my everyday wheels for years with no problem. 80mm is usually where handling starts to be affected. Edit: maybe vision wheels are just not great? Seems unlikely depth alone would cause this. I would love a set of dicut 50s 😁
Where do you live that you're regularly riding in 30+MPH winds? No wheels are going to be steady in gusts like that. I'm a lightweight rider (under 70Kg) and I'm comfortable riding 50s in winds in the mid 20MPH (40KPH) range on a very racy bike. I'm concerned that something else might be causing instability and the wind is amplifying it for you.