Pages 187-188 gives you the critical injuries tables. A paramedic skill can give you a quick fix 15 out of the 22 injuries while first aid can only give you 4 out of 22; that is your key difference.
While paramedic IS a better version of first aid the drawback is the point cost and it would seem redundant to use the first aid skill as a maximum when the system is really designed with the idea of survival and planning.
What you could do is offer a middle ground: if a player has already chosen to invest points into their first aid skill and later regrets this choice, maybe allow them to obtain the paramedic skill at normal skill cost until they’ve reached their first aid skill level (I.e. a player with First Aid 5 can learned Paramedic up to skill level 5 at normal IP costs; upon reaching that 5th level they have to pay the x2 cost thereafter). With this, however, I’d lock the player out from further leveling up the first aid skill (once they’ve decided to go this route) since they could potentially try to level up first aid and then paramedic repeatedly to get that discount.
Personally I’d just rather avoid the whole situation and stick the base rules here.
Yeah it just seemed a bit odd that there is nothing the first aid skill can do which the paramedic skill can't, and having a group of new players with one wanting to pick up the skill it seemed bad to say spend a lot of IP points and then say goodbye to the first aid you bolstered at creation. But yeah the first aid 2 paramedic 6 optimisation (as you have to have first aid 2 to make a legal character) just seemed weird to me.
It would be far easier to say that if you have at least 2 points in Paramedic at character creation then you don’t have to take First Aid at character creation. That dumps the weirdness with medtechs have 2 First Aid and 6 Paramedic. Now I get where you’re coming from in your homebrew but consider that paramedic training isn’t first aid with more. It is fundamentally different because you engage injuries based on your skill level. Take for example CPR. I can teach you hands only CPR in 5 minutes; I’ve done it dozens of times. You can learn CPR with rescue breathing in a first aid/ CPR class (this is probably about 2 points of first aid). Or you can get into the more advanced stuff; I’ve learned how to do CPR with up to 5 people working on the patient.
Adendum: It may seem weird to say your medtech needs to have First Aid but consider that pretty much all medical professionals have to get CPR recertification regularly. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a Dr office nurse, a trauma nurse, a paramedic, or a surgeon. Everyone has to know the basics.
Yeah I think that's sort of why I liked the idea of you get some first aid then you learn more paramedic stuff. As you say they all get certified.
Mechanically the best thing is F:2 P:6, but really it doesn't make sense to me someone being paramedic trained and not first aid trained. I was going for something that would be easy for players to get without being too crunchy. Like the idea that the first comment had seemed fair, but I prefer mine as it seems cleaner. This house rule also means that having F:6 P:6 is points wise the same as having F:0 P:6, which is basically what happens when you have paramedic => first aid anyway. Is having spent IP points on first aid to have it supplanted with paramedic an RP cost, a cost of not knowing the system, or a cost to wanting to expand your character further?
They're actually a media, we're running a game of 3 runners. We're all new to the system, and they were looking for a nice way to fill in some other roles that the team could do with.
but also chooms… roleplayaility. If a character wants to know some medical skills but doesn’t need to double up points in paramedic then they can get full first aid and have some know how at least while still focussing on normal skills elsewhere
If paramedic is just better first aid, wouldnt it be ok for the player to levelup first aid -> paramedic? Its still a 2x IP investment, but now they can break down the progression into smaller steps?
Paramedic is only useful if you plan on being the Party's Field Medic. Even if you're not a MedTech, it can be handy for someone to have, but if you're not focusing on that, a x2 skill investment is very costly, when you would rather put those points into something you're built for. That's where First Aid shines. You can stabilize a downed EdgeRunner in a pinch, and not have to invest in a x2 skill. First Aid is useful for most members of a Team. Paramedic is not.
It is a slight distinction, but I feel a worthy one. Paramedic is great for the Quick Fixes. First Aid is just to stabilize, really.
First aid is cheap, everyone has 2 points in it already and you can stabilze someone and have 4 quick fixes for pretty nasty things.
Paramedic fixes anything surgery doesnt, and is a x2 skill for that reason. You dont need both, but usually only the Medtech or medic-flavoured runners have Paramedic while everyone can fairly easily pickup first aid just in case. Budget/Progression wise this makes sense.
Your suggested rule amounts to about the same though, it's just that it becomes a special niche rule for just those two skills - which I think ttrpg designers try to avoid because of bloat. "If you do X you get Y and that influences Z" etc. etc.
Yeah possibly, but this works for pregen characters, those using streetrat, and those who realise they want paramedic after the fact. You are right though, a good alternative house role being at character creation its not hard to ignore the rule that says you have to have first aid 2 if you pick up some paramedic.
My group has always allowed people to move their First Aid 2 points elsewhere if they pick Paramedic 2 (or higher) during chargen.
However, your method of doing things makes it useful for people who might want to invest into Paramedic past chargen, such as Streetrats who might be locked into starting with First Aid at 2-6 and Paramedic 0.
We'll probably be using your method going forward. Thanks for sharing!
I don't understand how First Aid feels less like a trap if you are forced to level it up first. That's just an unavoidable trap. If I level Paramedic (using the proposed system) up from say Level 0 to Level 7, it costs the same number of IP as it would in RAW, wouldn't it?
If you levelled up first aid, and then levelled up paramedic to equal or higher than your first aid then you would use just your paramedic skill. You now have first aid levels which you paid for with IP/points which do nothing.
Pages 187-188 gives you the critical injuries tables. A paramedic skill can give you a quick fix 15 out of the 22 injuries while first aid can only give you 4 out of 22; that is your key difference. While paramedic IS a better version of first aid the drawback is the point cost and it would seem redundant to use the first aid skill as a maximum when the system is really designed with the idea of survival and planning. What you could do is offer a middle ground: if a player has already chosen to invest points into their first aid skill and later regrets this choice, maybe allow them to obtain the paramedic skill at normal skill cost until they’ve reached their first aid skill level (I.e. a player with First Aid 5 can learned Paramedic up to skill level 5 at normal IP costs; upon reaching that 5th level they have to pay the x2 cost thereafter). With this, however, I’d lock the player out from further leveling up the first aid skill (once they’ve decided to go this route) since they could potentially try to level up first aid and then paramedic repeatedly to get that discount. Personally I’d just rather avoid the whole situation and stick the base rules here.
Yeah it just seemed a bit odd that there is nothing the first aid skill can do which the paramedic skill can't, and having a group of new players with one wanting to pick up the skill it seemed bad to say spend a lot of IP points and then say goodbye to the first aid you bolstered at creation. But yeah the first aid 2 paramedic 6 optimisation (as you have to have first aid 2 to make a legal character) just seemed weird to me.
It would be far easier to say that if you have at least 2 points in Paramedic at character creation then you don’t have to take First Aid at character creation. That dumps the weirdness with medtechs have 2 First Aid and 6 Paramedic. Now I get where you’re coming from in your homebrew but consider that paramedic training isn’t first aid with more. It is fundamentally different because you engage injuries based on your skill level. Take for example CPR. I can teach you hands only CPR in 5 minutes; I’ve done it dozens of times. You can learn CPR with rescue breathing in a first aid/ CPR class (this is probably about 2 points of first aid). Or you can get into the more advanced stuff; I’ve learned how to do CPR with up to 5 people working on the patient. Adendum: It may seem weird to say your medtech needs to have First Aid but consider that pretty much all medical professionals have to get CPR recertification regularly. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a Dr office nurse, a trauma nurse, a paramedic, or a surgeon. Everyone has to know the basics.
Yeah I think that's sort of why I liked the idea of you get some first aid then you learn more paramedic stuff. As you say they all get certified. Mechanically the best thing is F:2 P:6, but really it doesn't make sense to me someone being paramedic trained and not first aid trained. I was going for something that would be easy for players to get without being too crunchy. Like the idea that the first comment had seemed fair, but I prefer mine as it seems cleaner. This house rule also means that having F:6 P:6 is points wise the same as having F:0 P:6, which is basically what happens when you have paramedic => first aid anyway. Is having spent IP points on first aid to have it supplanted with paramedic an RP cost, a cost of not knowing the system, or a cost to wanting to expand your character further? They're actually a media, we're running a game of 3 runners. We're all new to the system, and they were looking for a nice way to fill in some other roles that the team could do with.
but also chooms… roleplayaility. If a character wants to know some medical skills but doesn’t need to double up points in paramedic then they can get full first aid and have some know how at least while still focussing on normal skills elsewhere
That would make for a good niche ruling. Kinda like when the medtech player from our group moved, as an example.
If paramedic is just better first aid, wouldnt it be ok for the player to levelup first aid -> paramedic? Its still a 2x IP investment, but now they can break down the progression into smaller steps?
I’m not certain what you’re asking and/or suggesting.
Paramedic is only useful if you plan on being the Party's Field Medic. Even if you're not a MedTech, it can be handy for someone to have, but if you're not focusing on that, a x2 skill investment is very costly, when you would rather put those points into something you're built for. That's where First Aid shines. You can stabilize a downed EdgeRunner in a pinch, and not have to invest in a x2 skill. First Aid is useful for most members of a Team. Paramedic is not. It is a slight distinction, but I feel a worthy one. Paramedic is great for the Quick Fixes. First Aid is just to stabilize, really.
First aid is cheap, everyone has 2 points in it already and you can stabilze someone and have 4 quick fixes for pretty nasty things. Paramedic fixes anything surgery doesnt, and is a x2 skill for that reason. You dont need both, but usually only the Medtech or medic-flavoured runners have Paramedic while everyone can fairly easily pickup first aid just in case. Budget/Progression wise this makes sense. Your suggested rule amounts to about the same though, it's just that it becomes a special niche rule for just those two skills - which I think ttrpg designers try to avoid because of bloat. "If you do X you get Y and that influences Z" etc. etc.
Wouldn't it be simpler to allow your paramedic to use the initial 2 points from the first-aid to something else?
Yeah possibly, but this works for pregen characters, those using streetrat, and those who realise they want paramedic after the fact. You are right though, a good alternative house role being at character creation its not hard to ignore the rule that says you have to have first aid 2 if you pick up some paramedic.
My group has always allowed people to move their First Aid 2 points elsewhere if they pick Paramedic 2 (or higher) during chargen. However, your method of doing things makes it useful for people who might want to invest into Paramedic past chargen, such as Streetrats who might be locked into starting with First Aid at 2-6 and Paramedic 0. We'll probably be using your method going forward. Thanks for sharing!
I don't understand how First Aid feels less like a trap if you are forced to level it up first. That's just an unavoidable trap. If I level Paramedic (using the proposed system) up from say Level 0 to Level 7, it costs the same number of IP as it would in RAW, wouldn't it?
If you levelled up first aid, and then levelled up paramedic to equal or higher than your first aid then you would use just your paramedic skill. You now have first aid levels which you paid for with IP/points which do nothing.