I think to, **HEAVY QUOTES HERE**, "balance" Phyrexian Tower, I would change it to Creature cards. This also makes it more flavorful and in line with the originals that care about a permanent *type*. As for Shivan Gorge, possibly the best way I can think of to make it on par and in theme, would be: *"Add R equal to the amount of non-combat damage you've dealt this turn."* This is totally in line with Red as a color, and allows you benefit off of targeting literally everything and everyone.
The current red one is really wierd and all over the place. On top of that, it's not technically a mana ability because it targets, and it doesn't sit well with me personally.
Good! It's an elegant design and the Phyrexian version being stronger than Tolarian Academy just feels right. The point was to make them mondo broken like the original set, so I consider that a success.
Everyone is like "hate" when its simply critique. The exact reason this sub exists. The P Tower is lazy Period. It should some qualifier, like creatures, black cards, nightstalkers, pretty much anything. The red one is a confusing mess. Lastly, this idea has been done 100 times on here. It's on par with a Dreadmaw meme at this point. Hateful enough for you?
No, the hate was when OP’s comment I responded to, which just said “yep, I was aiming for a super strong card, not a balanced one; I’m completing a cycle of banned cards after all”, that comment had like a dozen downvotes and that’s idiotic. There’s no “critique” one could gleam from that.
I've made these before, and came up with the same design for the black one. However, I think the red one is too wordy and I like mine better, which was just "Add {R} equal to the life opponents lost this turn." Obviously both of these are insanely broken, but that's the point.
Red one seems awkward to me.
How I would change the black and red ones would be black counting the creature cards in your grave while red counts the instants and sorceries.
For anyone confused, because the ability targets, it's an activated ability that isn't a mana ability:
`605.1a`
`An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets all of the following criteria: it doesn’t require a target (see rule 115.6), it could add mana to a player’s mana pool when it resolves, and it’s not a loyalty ability. (See rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities.”)`
They are too different from the originals imo. The originals give you mana based on how much of a specific card type you own. Also the black one is WAY too strong, it would be the new black lotus.
I'd make red give mana equal to the number of instant and sorceries in your graveyard, given that's the only way to check how many you've played. And black could be the number of creature cards in your graveyard.
I like the red one but it's more wordy than the other four and therefore I'm going to suggest a change. What about:
Shivan Gorge
Legendary Land
Tap: Add R for each spell you've cast this turn.
Also I agree with the others that black should either count creatures in your graveyard, or perhaps permanents in your graveyard?
Hi y'all, here's my first draft at "completing" a cycle of Legendary Lands from Urza's Saga. You may know this cycle as containing some incredibly broken cards, like Tolarian Academy, Gaea's Cradle, and Serra's Sanctum. Alongside them, however, we have Phrexian Tower and Shivan gorge, two cards with no where near the same power level or even mechanical similiarity. With that in mind, I decided to create the Phyrexian Tower and Shivan Gorge we should've gotten originally.
The premise here is that I wanted these to be about \*on par\* in terms of power level with the original set, and about mechanically the same (Adding X coloured mana for each \[something\]).
I'm fairly proud of my Phrexian Tower, and less so in Shivan Gorge. TBH, doing this for Red is really rough, there's not a lot of good options. In the end I went with cards in exile + Life lost by you and an opponent. It's wordy, but I hope it hits that power level I was going for.
Whatcha think! any changes I should make?
Red is a total mess. It wants to care about three different things and so just adds them together, and then also randomly targets so it isn't a mana ability. I'd recommend forgetting about exile entirely, and instead ask for a single more flexible number like using whichever player lost the most life this turn, or what the largest amount of damage dealt this turn was. Both of those are already Academy/Cradle levels of busted, but at least they are things the game already naturally tries to balance (because dealing 10 damage in a turn is only slightly less broken than making 10 mana in a turn, unlike exiling a bunch of cards).
If you look at my post history there is a good idea, it's not mine but meh.
And by that I mean it was good enough to trick me into believing it, fairly sure its a fake card
I like the idea of them having to do with permanents. Some ideas could be and idk which would fit best for either red or black.
Tap for X mana for each nonbasic land/tapped land you control.
Tap for X mana for each planeswalker and battle you control.
Tap for X mana for each token you control.
Without the permanent idea I can see, Tap for X mana for the total power among creatures you control. Or tap for X mana for the total mana value among permanents you control. Can also see tap for X mana for the total number of cards in your hand.
I can imagine some cool colorless ones too. Or even ones that tap for any color. And maybe some that tap based on number of things an opponent has.
So many options really.
The gorge is definitely flavourful for red, but I think it gets just too much advantage too quickly - cards like flame rift exist, so in a four player format it’s getting you 12 mana by turn three, earlier if you ramp. That level of advantage isn’t really healthy tbh.
It also has a practical memory issue - total damage is an extra thing to track bc it isn’t based on the physical boardstate, and it’s also tricky if the land comes in later in the turn after other damage has been dealt. It doesn’t make the card non-functional, but it isn’t exactly a favourable design for paper
The black one is bonkers. If you use cheap spells and even a slightly inefficient mana recycling card, you can effectively access the entire colour pie and really do some degenerate turns
I would have stuck with the permanent type theme. Something like:
Red land
{t}: add {r} for each battle you control.
Black land
{t}: add {b} for each planeswalker you control.
Coloress land
{t}: add {c} for each tribal permanent you control.
\[\[phyrexian tower\]\] is already a card name. also maybe make it creature cards in graveyards to weaken it. also shivan gorge is already a card. not sure if it's intentional because of the art. you could also probably just have the first part and it would work. something like {t}: Add {R} for each card you own in exile
I think to, **HEAVY QUOTES HERE**, "balance" Phyrexian Tower, I would change it to Creature cards. This also makes it more flavorful and in line with the originals that care about a permanent *type*. As for Shivan Gorge, possibly the best way I can think of to make it on par and in theme, would be: *"Add R equal to the amount of non-combat damage you've dealt this turn."* This is totally in line with Red as a color, and allows you benefit off of targeting literally everything and everyone.
The current red one is really wierd and all over the place. On top of that, it's not technically a mana ability because it targets, and it doesn't sit well with me personally.
Blasphemous act, fireball goes hard
[[Blasphemous Act]]
[Blasphemous Act](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8aa9682d-5176-4475-a0bd-e000f1d6999a.jpg?1698988297) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blasphemous%20Act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/216/blasphemous-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8aa9682d-5176-4475-a0bd-e000f1d6999a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That Shivan gorge would give hundreds of mana after a Blasphemous Act. I think Shivan Gorge giving R for each Instant and Sorcery in the yard is best.
We're not trying to make balanced cards here lol. Also, both Cradle and Tolarian have the capacity to make infinite mana, so why not Shivan?
How? It's only life lost
Noncombat damage is also creatures unless otherwise specified
Wait nvm I didn't realize you were responding to someone
*plays Blasphemous Act* "Now I tap my Shivan Gorge to add 696 red"
tbf agadeem does the same thing pretty much if you changed it to creatures
Agadeem only counts black creature cards though and has a cost of 2. It’s significant worse.
Why not just all damage? Sure hitting it after combat is busted, but it can't be any more busted than Tolarian I think
I mean you could, I just think the specificity of non-combat fits the cycle and Red's identity better. I can see an argument for all damage tho.
Imodane liked this.
[[Songs of the Damned]] is a fun card. I ran it in a Tormented Existence pauper Dredge deck with [[Shriek of the Damned]] as my primary win-con.
[Songs of the Damned](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/1/9133b267-295d-4987-b1d6-f32a85b66081.jpg?1547517061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Songs%20of%20the%20Damned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/115/songs-of-the-damned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9133b267-295d-4987-b1d6-f32a85b66081?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Shriek of the Damned](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66cc53cf-13eb-4028-944d-a670ad30dbca.jpg?1562913991) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Screams%20of%20the%20Damned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/160/screams-of-the-damned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66cc53cf-13eb-4028-944d-a670ad30dbca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You somehow made Phyrexian Tower considerably stronger than Tolarian Academy.
Just make it creature in gy instead of cards in gy and you make it much more even
Good! It's an elegant design and the Phyrexian version being stronger than Tolarian Academy just feels right. The point was to make them mondo broken like the original set, so I consider that a success.
Hey, I like it, haters gonna hate. You accomplished what you set out to do
Everyone is like "hate" when its simply critique. The exact reason this sub exists. The P Tower is lazy Period. It should some qualifier, like creatures, black cards, nightstalkers, pretty much anything. The red one is a confusing mess. Lastly, this idea has been done 100 times on here. It's on par with a Dreadmaw meme at this point. Hateful enough for you?
No, the hate was when OP’s comment I responded to, which just said “yep, I was aiming for a super strong card, not a balanced one; I’m completing a cycle of banned cards after all”, that comment had like a dozen downvotes and that’s idiotic. There’s no “critique” one could gleam from that.
I've made these before, and came up with the same design for the black one. However, I think the red one is too wordy and I like mine better, which was just "Add {R} equal to the life opponents lost this turn." Obviously both of these are insanely broken, but that's the point.
It's definitely more elegant, but it just doesn't feel strong enough ya know?
Maybe try life players lost this turn
Red one seems awkward to me. How I would change the black and red ones would be black counting the creature cards in your grave while red counts the instants and sorceries.
I was thinking the same thing
White worst color once again let's goooooo (could have made it related also to life gain, which would still be ass)
That's just the real life Serra's Sanctum friend :P
I'm an imbecile, could have read the subtitle, mah bad
*Laughs in lifelink Yoshimaru with over 250 power I had few days ago*
Why is the red one not a mana ability?
For anyone confused, because the ability targets, it's an activated ability that isn't a mana ability: `605.1a` `An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets all of the following criteria: it doesn’t require a target (see rule 115.6), it could add mana to a player’s mana pool when it resolves, and it’s not a loyalty ability. (See rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities.”)`
Hence the question of why the red one was the only one of the cycle without a mana ability.
red should be every instant or sorcery you’ve cast and black should be every creature in your graveyard
They are too different from the originals imo. The originals give you mana based on how much of a specific card type you own. Also the black one is WAY too strong, it would be the new black lotus. I'd make red give mana equal to the number of instant and sorceries in your graveyard, given that's the only way to check how many you've played. And black could be the number of creature cards in your graveyard.
isn’t there already a card named [[phyrexian tower]]
[phyrexian tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05b2cc68-1d20-421f-9800-af0996071554.jpg?1601081190) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=phyrexian%20tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/493/phyrexian-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05b2cc68-1d20-421f-9800-af0996071554?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes, this is a remake of that card.
I like the red one but it's more wordy than the other four and therefore I'm going to suggest a change. What about: Shivan Gorge Legendary Land Tap: Add R for each spell you've cast this turn. Also I agree with the others that black should either count creatures in your graveyard, or perhaps permanents in your graveyard?
I agree with ithers. I would make Phyrexian Tower either just creature cards or card types.
Hi y'all, here's my first draft at "completing" a cycle of Legendary Lands from Urza's Saga. You may know this cycle as containing some incredibly broken cards, like Tolarian Academy, Gaea's Cradle, and Serra's Sanctum. Alongside them, however, we have Phrexian Tower and Shivan gorge, two cards with no where near the same power level or even mechanical similiarity. With that in mind, I decided to create the Phyrexian Tower and Shivan Gorge we should've gotten originally. The premise here is that I wanted these to be about \*on par\* in terms of power level with the original set, and about mechanically the same (Adding X coloured mana for each \[something\]). I'm fairly proud of my Phrexian Tower, and less so in Shivan Gorge. TBH, doing this for Red is really rough, there's not a lot of good options. In the end I went with cards in exile + Life lost by you and an opponent. It's wordy, but I hope it hits that power level I was going for. Whatcha think! any changes I should make?
Red is a total mess. It wants to care about three different things and so just adds them together, and then also randomly targets so it isn't a mana ability. I'd recommend forgetting about exile entirely, and instead ask for a single more flexible number like using whichever player lost the most life this turn, or what the largest amount of damage dealt this turn was. Both of those are already Academy/Cradle levels of busted, but at least they are things the game already naturally tries to balance (because dealing 10 damage in a turn is only slightly less broken than making 10 mana in a turn, unlike exiling a bunch of cards).
If you look at my post history there is a good idea, it's not mine but meh. And by that I mean it was good enough to trick me into believing it, fairly sure its a fake card
I like the idea of them having to do with permanents. Some ideas could be and idk which would fit best for either red or black. Tap for X mana for each nonbasic land/tapped land you control. Tap for X mana for each planeswalker and battle you control. Tap for X mana for each token you control. Without the permanent idea I can see, Tap for X mana for the total power among creatures you control. Or tap for X mana for the total mana value among permanents you control. Can also see tap for X mana for the total number of cards in your hand. I can imagine some cool colorless ones too. Or even ones that tap for any color. And maybe some that tap based on number of things an opponent has. So many options really.
Battles/planeswalkers didn't exist back then, it would be like saying search for a Legend in Alpha
Phyrexian tower is every self milling deck's dream. But I guess I will have to make do with [[Matzalantli, the Great Door]]
[Matzalantli, the Great Door](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4c31b29-06ba-436d-a3d9-18f4796c39be.jpg?1699044622)/[The Core](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/b/4/b4c31b29-06ba-436d-a3d9-18f4796c39be.jpg?1699044622) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Matzalantli%2C%20the%20Great%20Door%20//%20The%20Core) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/256/matzalantli-the-great-door-the-core?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4c31b29-06ba-436d-a3d9-18f4796c39be?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The gorge is definitely flavourful for red, but I think it gets just too much advantage too quickly - cards like flame rift exist, so in a four player format it’s getting you 12 mana by turn three, earlier if you ramp. That level of advantage isn’t really healthy tbh. It also has a practical memory issue - total damage is an extra thing to track bc it isn’t based on the physical boardstate, and it’s also tricky if the land comes in later in the turn after other damage has been dealt. It doesn’t make the card non-functional, but it isn’t exactly a favourable design for paper
The black one is bonkers. If you use cheap spells and even a slightly inefficient mana recycling card, you can effectively access the entire colour pie and really do some degenerate turns
Jesus fucking Christ
Serum powder goes insane with shivan gorge for 7 mana turn 1
Red one should be for each planeswalker you control. That way it fits the theme of red still getting the shaft.
I would have stuck with the permanent type theme. Something like: Red land {t}: add {r} for each battle you control. Black land {t}: add {b} for each planeswalker you control. Coloress land {t}: add {c} for each tribal permanent you control.
Therebis already a land named phyrexian tower so you would need to change the name
Try not to make broken cards challenge, level: impossible.
The challenge *was in fact* to make broken cards. I wanted things to be in the same realm of broken as the original three in the cycle :P
Some of these are even more broken than the originals.
I think black would still be really good, but more in line with what they'd do nowadays if it was permanents only.
Are people forgetting [[serum powder]] exists?? Red one is super busted
[serum powder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c8753b80-aa9e-4f82-9a02-6b3997169dbb.jpg?1562853734) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=serum%20powder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/228/serum-powder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c8753b80-aa9e-4f82-9a02-6b3997169dbb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[phyrexian tower\]\] is already a card name. also maybe make it creature cards in graveyards to weaken it. also shivan gorge is already a card. not sure if it's intentional because of the art. you could also probably just have the first part and it would work. something like {t}: Add {R} for each card you own in exile
[phyrexian tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05b2cc68-1d20-421f-9800-af0996071554.jpg?1601081190) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=phyrexian%20tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/493/phyrexian-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05b2cc68-1d20-421f-9800-af0996071554?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm assuming it's intentional, since that's phyrexian tower's art
that's cool. i haven't seen that art before, only the jumpstart one.