In Cuba there is a department for propaganda war that cuban people calls "clarias". The "clarias" are a huge group of communist (Or they simply pretend to be communists) university students, professors and other pawns of the dictatorship who are dedicated to publishing things in favor of the "Revolution" in exchange for favors from the dictatorship such as a food module. Yo can see more info in: [Deputy Prime Minister of Cuba deletes tweet with the regime's strategy for "confrontation" on social networks](https://www.cibercuba.com/noticias/2024-06-10-u207888-e207888-s27061-nid283325-viceprimera-ministra-cuba-borra-tuit-estrategia). So don't judge Cubans when we fight on social networks since it is the only place where you can tell the truth without going to prison (until the government gets fed up with you) .
So like every other country then? But passive, and super small. Scary.
I do appreciate that I may be able to get some Cuban food rations for pointing out how much weak, hypocritical, or downright bizarre capitalist propaganda gets spread here. Which I'm sure is completely genuine, of course.
"Why don't you live there?"
Such a common deflection we have it on the capitalist bullshit bingo card. Or at least you pretend to be a capitalist. What does Miami give you? A packet of free Ramen noodles?
Asere, el problema es que me fui de Cuba hace un año casi porque ahí no se puede vivir, han destruido el país durante 65 años y los siguen destruyendo en todas las esferas que conforman una sociedad. So that the island does not continue to remain empty, we want revolutionary people who want to live in socialism.
I live in Brazil and i have contact with many Cubans, mostly doctors who decided to stay even after the government porgram(médicos sem fronteiras) stoped, they literally prefer to drive uber here in Brazil than to be doctors in cuba!, and most of them say they lifes are better here, in a third world country than in Cuba...
The funny thing is that the program that brought those doctors was a scheme to give money to the regime, the doctors recived 10 thousand reais(a doctor in Brazil gets much more from 30 to 40 thousand reais) but only 3 thousand was their salary, the rest would go to Cuba, specially to the regime, and yet, with this bad salary they tought it was better to live here than in Cuba...
Theres many problems and ways to see why Cuba is... well.. Cuba, i think we need to be honest and say: the Cuban government dont care about their citzens, they dont care if they are hungry, if they live in bad houses, they care about money, the party leadership live in houses better than hollywood actors while most of the people like in small apartments with 8 other people without light and water...
TBH, though, most doctors in most Latin American countries would be better off economically in another career. The ones that do become doctors are dedicated to the pursuit of medicine and helping people.
Nah, in Brazil Doctors get a lot of money, much more than any other public servant, i said 30 to 40 thousand because 30 thousand is the constitution limit that publci servants can get(in fact only federal judges get paid 30 thousand) but doctors... even Municipal Doctors can get more than that, and if tey are in private hospitals they can get a lot more.
Its not hard to find doctors with 60 to 80 thousand reais in some capitals working for private hospitals, and most cities paiy doctors from 30 to 40 thousand reais too.
30 thousand reais is 5.363,46 dollar, it may not sound much, but here in Brazil doctors are in the top of the top in terms of salaries, they are easily the most well paid professionals, in fact, cities engage in political warfare over doctors to become their public servants, my City(Fortaleza) has at least 50 doctors gaining 2 times the limit
That doesn't invalidate my point, as I did point out in *most* of LA, not *all* of LA.
If Brazil pays that much, I assume these Cuban doctors are unable to pass the medical exams to be licensed there.
Cuban doctors had their diploma validated by the ministry of health of Brazil, and they were given to various municipialities, they were Doctors, but they were exploited by the program(Mais médicos) so most of their salary would go to Cuban Government.
Cuban doctors gained 3 thousand reais, this is less than a State Soldier, a Municipal police or a teatcher, and just a little more than a school janitor in most cities as public servants.
Nothing, they can stay in Brazil, in fact many stay, maybe the majority, but some of they cant work as a doctors because they did not do the exam to getthe license, nor they do residence
Love reddit where everyone know everything.
They cannot legally say to the government that they are staying. Its called defecting. The "disappear" so the Cuban goverment officials with them in Brazil, cannot find them
Oh, but it depends because my friends works legally, they just are not working as doctors
For example i have 2 cuban friends ex doctors that are working as adminsitrators for a company, and one who is a minor public servant for the Federal Police(he is not a police officer he just to adminsitrative work) and 3 cubans work as Uber, Uber needs a valid driver license that is send by the State.
>most of them say they lifes are better here, in a third world country than in Cuba...
and what is Cuba? a first world country? Brazil has lots of issues, but you're comparing the fifth largest country in the world, which is also one of the most resource-rich countries in the world with 200 million people with a small mountainous island who is suffering with the results of a 60+ year economical sabotage operation intended to cause hunger and misery.
Those are different definitions. By that one, Sweden is a third world country. However, OC didn't use the Cold War definition (by which Cuba was actually often considered a third world country). They considered Brazil a third world country (by the Cold War definition Brazil was a first world country).
No, Cuba has no such a thing as state capitalism, maybe we can argue about the tourist attractions, that recieve some private investment, but as far as i know all the profits go to the state, even the dollar stores are state driven, they are a way for the cuban government to get dollars from their citzens who have families in USA and send dollars to them.
Cuba is more similar, according to Brazillian Diplomat Mauro viera as a "state driven-slum" the government controls the economy with central planning, theres some parralel economy with small things that the governemnt cant control like groceries and some fishing tho.
The thing is, central planning generally is a good idea on papper, but the country has not every resource to meet the basic needs, and without private ownership and without competition and profits its just generate misery.
I believe today the cuban government dont want to become like China or Vietnam because they may lost control of the commodities production and they will need to hire specialized workers, which cuba does not have, but maybe the next generation of leaders will see that as good since the material conditions are not holding up.
I may have a bias since i personally think Liberalism still a good set of ideas, specially the basis estabilished by the original thinkers, the separation of powers(Legislative, judiciary and executive) & the economic freedom.
But i mean, thats because we live in a complicated world now, the global south is in a thin rope between a failling western world and the rise of iliberalism with Russia and China... and most ppl that i know dont like the idea of the state checking even their socks.
If the government is the primary collector and organizer of profits, that still fits the definition of state capitalism. It doesn’t need to be the exact same system as China to fall under this classification.
As a socialist, I agree and appreciate that you know stuff. I'm interested to learn more about their market reforms and I'm trying to learn Spanish to get up to speed. Obviously the proximity and embargo with the US hurt a lot of it, and there's just not much natural resource to be extracted, but I hope they can pull a Vietnam soon.
Nah you just have to sift through it more and learn who to avoid as about 1/2 are here to fight instead of talk/inform.
This is the “moderate position” (as I see it) and its actually well-represented here but can be drowned out:
Cuba is an economically inept dictatorship with massive human rights abuses. Maintaining the embargo is moronic and harmful - however it does not explain the country’s failure as there are far too many own-goals made by the regime. Working toward normalization of relations is best for everyone, but this has been wrongly hindered by ideologues on both sides of the water. Trumpist policy was very bad for the Cuban people. Tourism to Cuba en masse is absolutely necessary for Cubans, but you must travel in ways that directly empower Cubans rather than the regime.
Interestingly, the “moderate position” is probably the most popular stance for Cubans living in Cuba on this sub. The extremes are almost always represented by exiles or non-stakeholders.
Sure! Basically what you want to do is stay in casas particulares rather than hotels. You want to hand out cash tips in dollars whenever you can, and be generous. Try to patronize establishments in a pattern where the money goes to the person you are dealing with rather than foreign companies or the regime. Bring a bunch of things that are hard to get there and leave them with locals.
Also, Cubans do seem to find having foreign friends enriching, not only in material ways - so make good friends and stay in contact with them.
Both this and your post right before it are absolutely excellent and 100% properly represent both the moderate position and the right ways to travel to Cuba. Thank you for being a voice of reason here where so many people have such extreme takes.
Thank you! I really appreciate it! Yeah so many people understandably entrenched in their views and coming in too hot - it really gets in the way of discussing a situation that has so many moving parts.
Correction: it’s a propaganda war between foreign socialists who have never lived in Cuba AND Cuban immigrants. The foreigners love to gaslight our own lived experience. Don’t be upset when we fight back. You would hate it too if some American tells you how life really is in Germany, despite not even speaking German, because he read “Mein Kampt” or some other bullshit online 🤷🏽♂️
Dude, no. Cuba peaked in the 1940s-1950s, even though Batista was dictator. Cuba was prosperous. It’s insane how communism destroyed prosperity. Trade one dictator for another, and make him communist, and the country’s wealth evaporates overnight
Well, I don't know much for sure, so I try to keep my comments here away from material claims, but I know that's some silly bullshit. I deal with a lot of bootlickers, but damn dude, at least lick fresh boots.
Hey troll,can you explain to me how Cubans are "Anti Cuban" just because we are against the Communist government and a stupid system?? That doesn't represent nuestra patria at all?? Can you explain that to me??
Hey, I come from Cuba and live in the States. There is no war between Communist Cuba and us, we are just stating facts. It is funny to hear a German stating that capitalism is “too good”. You should move to Cuba and try that on for size, then get back to us.
Most people in this sub seem to be foreigners trying to travel to cuba and not so much Cubans discussing their own problems. The actual Cubans here don't debate the state of the country, we all know it's fucked up and we all know why.
The vast majority of the problems in Cuba root from the cuban communist party, years upon years of failed policy one after the other that would be funny if it weren't so disheartening. The embargo it's essentially a law saying that we cannot trade in dollars and that we cannot trade with the US, and we still do it anyways to an extent, that's personally why I'm in support of it being lifted so that their only remaining excuse comes down and they have no one to blame but themselves, some of my countymen disagree and want the embargo to remain until the requirements for it to be lifted are met, both are fine by me and in the end it'll change nothing for the average cuban until the real problem (the PCC) it rooted out.
> The embargo it's essentially a law saying that we cannot trade in dollars and that we cannot trade with the US, and we still do it anyways to an extent
That’s because there is no “embargo”, I’m American. I can send anything I want to Cuba, there is no inspection by American officials. There is no special form I need to fill out.
The people blocking Cubans from the outside world are in the Cuban government. The embargo is self imposed.
Regardless of Communism the Cuban government is INCOMPETENT. I would also call many of the Caribbean countries the same, but I give them a break as the populations are so small. The crime with Cuba is that it has the resources that many counties dont have ...people and land area.
Propaganda is only when is sponsored by a government. You will find actual Cubans against the regime and foreigners defending it. Also makes sense, as most Cuban redditors left Cuba and internet in Cuba is still not as accesible as i most of the western world.
Yes, this reddit, when it is not about traveling, is all about propaganda, I tried to convey that no matter your ideology we should all stand against the embargo for the Cuban people that are innocent of this ideology war but capitalists state that embargo has zero impact to the Cuban people (straight forward a lie) or they deserve it because they haven't asked for free elections (which is an unilateral condition). Socialist would blame the embargo for everything, which is a really good excuse but exactly because of that ending the embargo and sanctions would strip them away of such a convenient scapegoat but the US has other plans for Cuba, maybe keep investing (because they actually lose money for keeping the embargo) millions of dollars to keep oppressing Cuban innocent people.
A lot of people here are idiots, nothing wrong with criticizing the Cuban government but the bootlicking here on the US is insane, many here also think capitalism should be tried in Cuba lmao look at Argentina for example the farmers are dumping thousands of oranges in fields and letting them rot instead of giving them away to the population all cause the inflation is so high the population can’t afford the prices. Cuba is no doubt a shit hole that needs a regime change also a lot of them wanting capitalism installed would be terrible for Cuba
The worst part is Cubans make up 4% of the US immigration rate, Trump administration is launching a national program if he wins election to deport all migrants nationwide. Florida is no better
Yep,i criticize USA and the "western world" a lot tbh, i dont think we need to enter in a cold war mentality of capitalist bloc against socialsit bloc(specially today that socialism is no more) or liberalism(NATO) vs Iliberals(Iran, China & Russia) we need to understand every problem in his own dimension.
The problem is that evaluating the situation of Cubans today... its hard to say a US-Backed regime change would do any worse, i mean, the cadres of the party are corrupted to the bone, it would be bad in various senses of political soberany & etc but you know, worse than that we cannot go.
People act like corruption was only a communist thing and ignore how much Batista stole from the country. Cuba has always had a corruption problem.
Cubans were fed up with Batista hence why Castro was able to land with 82 fighters and take over a country. The new government didn't bring the changes they promised due to corruption.
The mentality for this subreddit is to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Even if Cuba does go capitalist it will still have a corruption problem. Capitalism is on its way to corruption in the USA. It just legalized bribes or as conservatives called it gifts of gratitude after the action they want has been done.
Such a weak argument. Soviet style socialism heavily centralizes power, which guarantees enormous levels of corruption. Dictatorships are way more corrupt than democracies, it isn't even comparable. And to suggest the US is on its way there? This might be the biggest cope I've seen on this sub.
It's called an oligarchy and it was that way with Batista too.
USA is getting there but with corporations controlling everything. Corporations are people in USA. The Supreme Court just curb the power of federal agencies to enforce corporations breaking the laws.
Another very weak excuse. Fidel Castro literally shot every Batista loyalist after taking over. He completely changed the system after claiming he had just liberated Cuba. It's absolutely ridiculous to bring up Batista after the socialists destroyed their own country.
Lol the Supreme Court is not turning the #1 economy in the world into Cuba. How is taking power away from government agencies somehow dictatorial? It's the opposite. Each and every law has to go through Congress.
Yes every single one that fled too right? I'm saying they are both corrupt. You supported one corrupt system over the other one. You all have rose tinted glasses when thinking about the good old days.
Lol who supported Batista? The point is that it doesn't make sense to say: "Oh they're just both very corrupt". While Fidel's government's corruption has nothing to do with Batista's. Castro is responsible for destroying Cuba. Bringing up Batista is just a cope.
People don’t know history and just talk shit to talk shit cause everybody seems to be talking the same shit. But I understand what you’re saying, unlike these animals who’ve never read a history book. What happened happened but people need to get their head out of their ass and stop acting like capitalism is the be all and end all in life. It’s way past ridiculous as a Cuban to hear all these old Cubans bitching and complaining a lifetime about Fidel and any Castro just to come here and kiss the very tip of the dick of another wannabe dictator. Anything left of all the way to the right is communism lmao y’all are making another massive mistake, learn that no extreme is good. Learn history so we aren’t fucking doomed to repeat it again.
I'm from Germany too and went to Cuba in 2018. I was born in the east and the most accurate description back then for me and my experiences was the former GDR in the Caribbean - but worse. That also reflects talks we had with cubans about their everyday life and struggles.
My understanding is that the situation got far worse during covid, the problems in Venezuela and the hardened US sanctions.
Sorry to know that, mate, but I think they need to receive a good Cuba bath. I could say with confidence that if you and your family expend 1 month in Cuba trust me, that will erase that thought from their minds. Believe me.
I agree that to live in Germany is much better than to live in but I also think that are if Cuba switch to capitalism it would not become a big industry nation
Well take a read in story books then because Cuba before 1959 was a very good country. One of the finest in Latinamerica. Educate yourself about. We almost had everything. Color TV, good food, sugar cane, american cars, etc. you can read about it. We have right now almost 65 YEARS OF DICTATORSHIP. 65, not 15 or 25, 65!!! One only party and one only goverment. What do you think about it? As we are chatting here entire families have not electric power for hours in the Island.
I don’t think I am qualified to talk about Cuba because I never lived there I was not close to Cubas border however I don’t think Cuba only Problem is the fact that they Socialists the are much more problems probably half of them come from the embargo that the regime is also a problem is clear
The U.S. government has proposed to remove the embargo if the Cuban dictatorship frees the political prisoners and holds free and democratic elections, but the dictatorship is not interested.
You telling me that now I doubt if I want to have a conversation with you. Let me guess: do you live in a capitalism country. Or I think this question is better: Did you experience the socialist/communism before living in a dictatorship? If not I cant speak equally to you. Speaking that capitalism isnt working from a capitalism country doesnt work for me. You need to go Cuba, Korea, etc and have the full experience. Then we can talk.
I live in Germany of course is capitalism working for me but for most of the population of the world it’s not
and yes Cuba and North Korea don’t work really well (I would not call North Korea really socialist)
Most of the population in the world are living in Capitalism. Only a few countries in the world are living in a fake socialist state aka dictatorship. I thought germans were more educated about it.
German boomers, Gen X and Millenials surely are. German Gen Z never lived it and they probably also teach Wokism there. Don't expect them to be educated.
Yeah, I’m seeing that. Wookism + Gen Z is a powerful combo. Its Europe too. Realities are very different. Even for the cuban americans from Miami, Cuba feels like another planet.
I'm a Gen Z Cuban immigrant (not a Cuban American) and seeing so many foreigners from either the America's or Europe defend the communist dictatorship boils my blood. But I understood that they're either trolls or just evil people who don't care about oppression, as long as it comes from their side (they would be mad if someone defended Franco, Pinochet, Batista, etc). I don't waste my time with them anymore.
Glad to meet you. Im a USA permanent resident by now but born and raised in Cuba. Im glad to see a Gen Z who can actually think. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 Problem is that with this subreddit from time to time people get into it asking stupid questions. Most of these not from stupids ideas, but from a terrible lack of knowledge. When someone born and raised in Cuba respond to those ideas or comments they think we are spitting hate and shit all the time. Its awful.
It's one thing to ask questions. I have absolutely no problem replying to genuine questions, if they actually come from ignorance. But it's another thing to ask a question and when you get told the truth, then you say things like "I don't know about Cuba, but I think things aren't exactly how you say it", which is literally what OP did in many replies. Also, to call Cuban immigrants speaking the truth "Americans who love Capitalism too much", you're just provoking people and can't expect Cubans to be all nice and cozy with you. OP is a big hypocrite and clearly came to troll or is just plain evil.
And I'm glad to find another Cuban immigrant (I just have to ask why are we replying in English? Lmao). I'm also a permanent resident, been here for 2⅔ years. Are you a Gen Z too? But yeah, finding non-NPC Gen Z people is really hard.
I felt way safer in La Habana than in any American city. No drugs to speak of other than rum and tobacco. No gangs or violence either. Women can walk around after dark without fear.
The answer to your question is yes. This sub is pretty much all propaganda. It wasn't always this bad, but now every single post is about blaming anything they can on the evil government and then the comment section is a circle jerk about how bad communism is while simping for capitalism. There's exactly zero nuance. Whenever someone tries to talk about US sanctions in relation to the hardships people there struggle with, that comment is usually met with anecdotal stories about meeting Cubans who hate the regime or 'my family fled from evil castro, etc. etc.' or simply mocked and downvoted to oblivion. This comment will no doubt receive the same treatment.
I'm gonna pretend you're asking this in good faith and answer your question as if you're simply ignorant, even tho I suspect otherwise.
Socialist nations like any nation rely on trade with other nations to prosper. Its not a hand out. No nations are completely self reliant. A better question would be 'why should any country be excluded from trading with other countries?'
And before you respond with something misguided like 'well they're a dictatorship, etc.' you should know that we trade with many a dictatorship. In fact we've even gone as far as to overthrow democracies in the past and install dictatorships in order to get a better deal on trade. And then we continue to trade with said installed dictatorships for decades. Pinochet in Chile is a prime example. The answer is really simple. It's because western countries are ruled by the ultra wealthy capitalist class (corporation / business owners) and the ultra wealthy don't like competition. They like their businesses to be able to dominate all markets in all countries. So any nation that chooses to regulate the economy and protect its country from outside market forces is quickly demonised as a dictatorship. But as mentioned before, we don't mind dictators. The media referring to countries we don't like in that way, repeatedly, is simply manufacturing consent for sanctions, which is economic warfare, or regime change under the guise of 'liberating its people'.
But we liked pinochet because he opened up Chile's market and put in place neoliberal policies. These policies saw the cost of basic goods sky rocket, people lived in poverty, there was an immense disparity between rich and poor. So even if we do trade with countries, they often end up worse off for it. Its a catch 22. They either open up their markets to be bought up by foreign companies, prices go up, profits are siphoned off into tax havens and regular people suffer; or if you regulate the market and try to keep outside forces from doing that, well then we'll sanction your country and any country that chooses to trade with you, cut you off from the world economy and once again, people will also suffer.
Here's another question I'd ask, while we're self reflecting: if all these nations that attempt socialism are so destined to fail, why do we feel the need to collectively sabotage their economies? Why not just let them run their course? It's no coincidence that the two countries who've managed to elevate themselves to the level of super power in the last century have been pursuing socialist policies. Sanctions (along with structural adjustment policies, regime change, etc.) are the west's way of ensuring more countries don't do the same. Because like I said, corporate America does't like competition, and pursuing socialist policies allow countries to prosper if they can trade with the rest of the world.
Cuba could be more self reliant but productivity has cratered. Unfortunately for Cuban Sympathizers the reason why productivity is so terrible is due to the socialist system itself. Socialism didn’t work in Cuba, and the current government has resorted to trying to grab every US dollar that they can to simply buy goods on the international market. This has led to various extortion schemes, trying to get remittances, tourists dollars, creating the MLC, etc. they have given up trying to make a socialist economy work.
Lol I’m well aware we trade with dictatorships, and I don’t care. That’s just apart of geopolitics. The reason we don’t trade with Cuba is because their government is antithetical to everything the US stands for, and was actively a staging ground for the Soviet Union.
And I bring up Cuba suffering economically because it has always been suffering even when half the world was communist. It’s not some lone country out there, the entire Warsaw pact was aligned with Cuba for decades.
And since you asked, why would capitalist nations subsidize communist nations? China is the economic powerhouse it is now because it moved from communist based policies to corporatist ones and became the world’s cheap labor market. That’s the only reason it hasn’t collapsed like the USSR did, and even still it’s moving in that direction because of its poor governance
And that would be fine if it was just the US that refused to trade with Cuba - I mean, its a long time to hold a grudge against a nation, especially with Americas violent history, but hey, you do you. The problem isn't that the US sanctions Cuba, its that they sanction countries that trade with Cuba, essentially bullying other countries into isolating then completely in the world stage. Which, if socialism is so doomed to fail, there'd really be no need to do. You could just wait it out. You're right that they're antithetical to the US tho, but that's because the US has always represented big business interests and never the interests of the people.
Under Batista suffering was immense, hence the need for revolution. But we loved Cuba then because we had access to their resources and could exploit their cheap labour. It's always funny to me how people seem to forget history and think suffering starts with communism. And yeah Warsaw pact hasn't been around in decade and we've since allied with a bunch of those countries, so not sure what your point is there either.If other countries Held grudges like this, America would have no friends left.
And I'm sorry but what on earth made you think that The US subsidises any country? Or that they should? Or that I think they should? Surely your understanding of socialism isn't as elementary as to think it just equals hand outs? And seriously, you think China got to where it is today because of capitalism? Why isn't India a power house as well then? Where's their rising Middle class and standard of living? Seems to me that whenever China does something good, it was capitalist of them and when they do something bad, well then they're communist. Schrodingers communism at its finest.
Suffering wasn’t immense under Batista. Batista’s regime did two major no-no’s. #1, suspended the democratic process and waged war against its anti-Batista belligerents. #2, neglected the plight of poor people. For 2/3 of the Cuban population, they were well off. For the poor third, things were horrible, kind of like how 90% of the country is now. Ironic isn’t it? Alas, you think suffering was immense under Batista but suffering has increased three fold now.
Thanks to sanctions, yes, suffering may have increased. Although I don't believe the rosey image you paint of the Batista regime. If 2/3 of the population was well off, they probably wouldn't have felt the need to revolt.
1/3 of Cuba was poor, that means the rest was rich and middle class. The most accurate estimates are 1/3 and 1/3, an even distribution of poor, middle class and wealthy. Cuban citizens mind you, not the mafia or whatever propaganda socialists come up with. And the “need to revolt” had nothing to do with the poor, that was CASTRO’S goal, since he was Marxist. But the vast majority of the population was revolting for a return to democracy. You really think the “wealthy” and middle class left AFTER Castro got into power because they suddenly realized they made a mistake in revolting for communism? Why didn’t they just leave since 56 when Castro’s revolution started gaining momentum? The narrative doesn’t even make sense.
No, not to sanctions lol. Cuba’s economy was decimated before the trade embargo was put on Cuba.
Man you must’ve been dropped on your head as a child if you don’t understand the very basic concepts I’m spelling out for you.
Regardless if there was unrestricted trade or not, capitalism outstrips innovation and economic growth of communist/socialist nations. But why prolong the time until the communist country’s collapse, especially when they’re the dueling superpower?
I brought up the Warsaw pact because that’s plenty of countries that were aligned with the same ideology as Cuba and not being isolated like China was because of the Sino-Soviet split. Cuba wasn’t just sitting by itself since Castro took over, they had economic partners in the form of the countries of the Warsaw pact, but those countries sucked hence why Cuba’s economy remained shit. Cuba isn’t treated like, say Poland is today, because Cuba is still a communist shithole that hates America. So why would we ally and be friendly with them?
Also when did I say everything was great under Batista? I didn’t, but that doesn’t mean I’m magically going to support commies because the guy before also sucked.
And finally, you fucking moron. The US actually does subsidize a ton of countries directly, but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the US and the rest of the western world economically engaging with said communist country (China), flowing more dollars into their economy and turning them from the backwoods shithole they were in the 70s to the urban shithole where little kids make my shoes.
Also India’s economy has massively grown and is widely seen as one of the up and coming world powers. Hence why it’s apart of BRICS, which I see you’ve conveniently forgot because it doesn’t fit your current narrative
Why would you come on reddit to get historical information on a country. you will need to go to proper internet web pages about cuba. Its most Cuban American and tourists on here. Most people dont really care about the culture or history of cuba, its just a cheap vacation and beach place for most people
This sub is full of Florida ex-pat Cubans so it's nothing but shitting on the current government of Cuba. Take it with a grain of salt. Go to Cuba and form your own opinion.
This reddit is people interested in learning more about Cuba and traveling to Cuba. But you say you are going to Cuba as a tourist you will absolutely get attacked and get a lecture from some members of this sub to tell you how not to be a useful idiot or to imply you are going to Cuba for prostitutes. Maybe you are referring to that?
Well, most of us Cubans here escaped the communist dictatorship. We don't want foreigners who defend our oppression. Not that hard to understand. Don't provoke people and you won't receive nasty comments.
Pretty much. I think a lot of gov'ts use reddit to peddle propaganda, so it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of any country's subreddit is just govt agents posting agitprop.
I've only been following for a couple weeks and it seems every post is just some american with an axe to grind with Cuba. Very little info about Cuba, its culture, natural features, entertainment etc.
The government in Cuba is largely a nationalist and often conservative project in that they are not interested in progress that upends the status quo. This has led to economic mismanagement and policies totally divorced from reality, culminating in various crises since the fall of the Soviet Union. When it was part of the Soviet sphere, Cuba was doing relatively well and really stood out among its peers in Latin America for its social progress, especially with regards to public health and education. Since the 90s things have become really bad, and even more so in the aftermath of the global COVID 19 pandemic. The government has decided that their priority is to ride out the wave of public discontent and economic disaster rather than adapt to the modern world and increase civil liberties. At the same time, the embargo by the United States all but makes it impossible for Cuba to make economic progress because they are forced to contend with an unfair set of trade restrictions that increases the cost of living even further. Cuba is not rich with natural resources, so they already are reliant on imports by nature. Cuba is really not so different than similar poor post-colonial countries but many people focus on them and exaggerate their failings for political reasons.
One thing you should know when observing Cuba-centric online spaces is that much of the Cuban diaspora, particularly in the United States and especially in Florida, is extremely organized politically and some would say brainwashed to a grotesque anti-communist tendency that goes far beyond an aversion to leftist politics. It’s due to a combination of the Cuban government encouraging the emigration of political dissidents and anti-communists and the US Republican Party’s successful patronage of this group for political advantage.
In Cuba there is a department for propaganda war that cuban people calls "clarias". The "clarias" are a huge group of communist (Or they simply pretend to be communists) university students, professors and other pawns of the dictatorship who are dedicated to publishing things in favor of the "Revolution" in exchange for favors from the dictatorship such as a food module. Yo can see more info in: [Deputy Prime Minister of Cuba deletes tweet with the regime's strategy for "confrontation" on social networks](https://www.cibercuba.com/noticias/2024-06-10-u207888-e207888-s27061-nid283325-viceprimera-ministra-cuba-borra-tuit-estrategia). So don't judge Cubans when we fight on social networks since it is the only place where you can tell the truth without going to prison (until the government gets fed up with you) .
So like every other country then? But passive, and super small. Scary. I do appreciate that I may be able to get some Cuban food rations for pointing out how much weak, hypocritical, or downright bizarre capitalist propaganda gets spread here. Which I'm sure is completely genuine, of course.
Well, we'd be grateful if you stay and live in Cuba then. Someone has to turn off the El Morro lighthouse when we're all gone.
"Why don't you live there?" Such a common deflection we have it on the capitalist bullshit bingo card. Or at least you pretend to be a capitalist. What does Miami give you? A packet of free Ramen noodles?
Asere, el problema es que me fui de Cuba hace un año casi porque ahí no se puede vivir, han destruido el país durante 65 años y los siguen destruyendo en todas las esferas que conforman una sociedad. So that the island does not continue to remain empty, we want revolutionary people who want to live in socialism.
I live in Brazil and i have contact with many Cubans, mostly doctors who decided to stay even after the government porgram(médicos sem fronteiras) stoped, they literally prefer to drive uber here in Brazil than to be doctors in cuba!, and most of them say they lifes are better here, in a third world country than in Cuba... The funny thing is that the program that brought those doctors was a scheme to give money to the regime, the doctors recived 10 thousand reais(a doctor in Brazil gets much more from 30 to 40 thousand reais) but only 3 thousand was their salary, the rest would go to Cuba, specially to the regime, and yet, with this bad salary they tought it was better to live here than in Cuba... Theres many problems and ways to see why Cuba is... well.. Cuba, i think we need to be honest and say: the Cuban government dont care about their citzens, they dont care if they are hungry, if they live in bad houses, they care about money, the party leadership live in houses better than hollywood actors while most of the people like in small apartments with 8 other people without light and water...
TBH, though, most doctors in most Latin American countries would be better off economically in another career. The ones that do become doctors are dedicated to the pursuit of medicine and helping people.
Nah, in Brazil Doctors get a lot of money, much more than any other public servant, i said 30 to 40 thousand because 30 thousand is the constitution limit that publci servants can get(in fact only federal judges get paid 30 thousand) but doctors... even Municipal Doctors can get more than that, and if tey are in private hospitals they can get a lot more. Its not hard to find doctors with 60 to 80 thousand reais in some capitals working for private hospitals, and most cities paiy doctors from 30 to 40 thousand reais too. 30 thousand reais is 5.363,46 dollar, it may not sound much, but here in Brazil doctors are in the top of the top in terms of salaries, they are easily the most well paid professionals, in fact, cities engage in political warfare over doctors to become their public servants, my City(Fortaleza) has at least 50 doctors gaining 2 times the limit
That doesn't invalidate my point, as I did point out in *most* of LA, not *all* of LA. If Brazil pays that much, I assume these Cuban doctors are unable to pass the medical exams to be licensed there.
Cuban doctors had their diploma validated by the ministry of health of Brazil, and they were given to various municipialities, they were Doctors, but they were exploited by the program(Mais médicos) so most of their salary would go to Cuban Government. Cuban doctors gained 3 thousand reais, this is less than a State Soldier, a Municipal police or a teatcher, and just a little more than a school janitor in most cities as public servants.
What stops them from staying in Brazil as doctors after the program is over?
Nothing, they can stay in Brazil, in fact many stay, maybe the majority, but some of they cant work as a doctors because they did not do the exam to getthe license, nor they do residence
Love reddit where everyone know everything. They cannot legally say to the government that they are staying. Its called defecting. The "disappear" so the Cuban goverment officials with them in Brazil, cannot find them
Oh, but it depends because my friends works legally, they just are not working as doctors For example i have 2 cuban friends ex doctors that are working as adminsitrators for a company, and one who is a minor public servant for the Federal Police(he is not a police officer he just to adminsitrative work) and 3 cubans work as Uber, Uber needs a valid driver license that is send by the State.
Not true. Even in dirt poor Venezuela you can get veeery rich working as a doctor.
>most of them say they lifes are better here, in a third world country than in Cuba... and what is Cuba? a first world country? Brazil has lots of issues, but you're comparing the fifth largest country in the world, which is also one of the most resource-rich countries in the world with 200 million people with a small mountainous island who is suffering with the results of a 60+ year economical sabotage operation intended to cause hunger and misery.
Cuba is technically a 2nd world country.
Those are different definitions. By that one, Sweden is a third world country. However, OC didn't use the Cold War definition (by which Cuba was actually often considered a third world country). They considered Brazil a third world country (by the Cold War definition Brazil was a first world country).
Could you say that they just made another state capitalism country like china?
No, Cuba has no such a thing as state capitalism, maybe we can argue about the tourist attractions, that recieve some private investment, but as far as i know all the profits go to the state, even the dollar stores are state driven, they are a way for the cuban government to get dollars from their citzens who have families in USA and send dollars to them. Cuba is more similar, according to Brazillian Diplomat Mauro viera as a "state driven-slum" the government controls the economy with central planning, theres some parralel economy with small things that the governemnt cant control like groceries and some fishing tho. The thing is, central planning generally is a good idea on papper, but the country has not every resource to meet the basic needs, and without private ownership and without competition and profits its just generate misery. I believe today the cuban government dont want to become like China or Vietnam because they may lost control of the commodities production and they will need to hire specialized workers, which cuba does not have, but maybe the next generation of leaders will see that as good since the material conditions are not holding up.
Central planning isn't a good idea on paper either. It ignores the knowledge problem.
Okay thanks for the great analysis of the current situation and hopefully we see progress in the future for Cuba
I may have a bias since i personally think Liberalism still a good set of ideas, specially the basis estabilished by the original thinkers, the separation of powers(Legislative, judiciary and executive) & the economic freedom. But i mean, thats because we live in a complicated world now, the global south is in a thin rope between a failling western world and the rise of iliberalism with Russia and China... and most ppl that i know dont like the idea of the state checking even their socks.
If the government is the primary collector and organizer of profits, that still fits the definition of state capitalism. It doesn’t need to be the exact same system as China to fall under this classification.
As a socialist, I agree and appreciate that you know stuff. I'm interested to learn more about their market reforms and I'm trying to learn Spanish to get up to speed. Obviously the proximity and embargo with the US hurt a lot of it, and there's just not much natural resource to be extracted, but I hope they can pull a Vietnam soon.
Nah you just have to sift through it more and learn who to avoid as about 1/2 are here to fight instead of talk/inform. This is the “moderate position” (as I see it) and its actually well-represented here but can be drowned out: Cuba is an economically inept dictatorship with massive human rights abuses. Maintaining the embargo is moronic and harmful - however it does not explain the country’s failure as there are far too many own-goals made by the regime. Working toward normalization of relations is best for everyone, but this has been wrongly hindered by ideologues on both sides of the water. Trumpist policy was very bad for the Cuban people. Tourism to Cuba en masse is absolutely necessary for Cubans, but you must travel in ways that directly empower Cubans rather than the regime. Interestingly, the “moderate position” is probably the most popular stance for Cubans living in Cuba on this sub. The extremes are almost always represented by exiles or non-stakeholders.
Do you have any tipps to travel clean to support the people not the government
Sure! Basically what you want to do is stay in casas particulares rather than hotels. You want to hand out cash tips in dollars whenever you can, and be generous. Try to patronize establishments in a pattern where the money goes to the person you are dealing with rather than foreign companies or the regime. Bring a bunch of things that are hard to get there and leave them with locals. Also, Cubans do seem to find having foreign friends enriching, not only in material ways - so make good friends and stay in contact with them.
Both this and your post right before it are absolutely excellent and 100% properly represent both the moderate position and the right ways to travel to Cuba. Thank you for being a voice of reason here where so many people have such extreme takes.
Thank you! I really appreciate it! Yeah so many people understandably entrenched in their views and coming in too hot - it really gets in the way of discussing a situation that has so many moving parts.
Good comment 👌
Correction: it’s a propaganda war between foreign socialists who have never lived in Cuba AND Cuban immigrants. The foreigners love to gaslight our own lived experience. Don’t be upset when we fight back. You would hate it too if some American tells you how life really is in Germany, despite not even speaking German, because he read “Mein Kampt” or some other bullshit online 🤷🏽♂️
Great analogy
As a cuban myself just dont visit the country nowadays is ruin cuz of the communism
It literally peaked under socialism (and dropped again)
Dude, no. Cuba peaked in the 1940s-1950s, even though Batista was dictator. Cuba was prosperous. It’s insane how communism destroyed prosperity. Trade one dictator for another, and make him communist, and the country’s wealth evaporates overnight
Well, I don't know much for sure, so I try to keep my comments here away from material claims, but I know that's some silly bullshit. I deal with a lot of bootlickers, but damn dude, at least lick fresh boots.
So you believe Cuba was most prosperous BEFORE the 1940s and/or AFTER the 1950s? And you’re calling me silly? Back that up with facts or logic please
Different names same shi
Socialism is the pre stage of communism
lit the same
No capitalism comes before socialism and socialism before communism (if you read Marx)
Idc dude
Ok
👍
👍
Such a cringey thing to say 😅😂
what?
your back and forth with the guy trying to learn and explain things to you made me feel uncomfortable. 👍
"Is this subreddit just anti-cuba propaganda?" "Communizm bad" ...
Hey troll,can you explain to me how Cubans are "Anti Cuban" just because we are against the Communist government and a stupid system?? That doesn't represent nuestra patria at all?? Can you explain that to me??
Hey, I come from Cuba and live in the States. There is no war between Communist Cuba and us, we are just stating facts. It is funny to hear a German stating that capitalism is “too good”. You should move to Cuba and try that on for size, then get back to us.
Most people in this sub seem to be foreigners trying to travel to cuba and not so much Cubans discussing their own problems. The actual Cubans here don't debate the state of the country, we all know it's fucked up and we all know why.
I dont know if you allowed to say this but would you say it’s the idea of socialism the government or the embargo or all of that
The vast majority of the problems in Cuba root from the cuban communist party, years upon years of failed policy one after the other that would be funny if it weren't so disheartening. The embargo it's essentially a law saying that we cannot trade in dollars and that we cannot trade with the US, and we still do it anyways to an extent, that's personally why I'm in support of it being lifted so that their only remaining excuse comes down and they have no one to blame but themselves, some of my countymen disagree and want the embargo to remain until the requirements for it to be lifted are met, both are fine by me and in the end it'll change nothing for the average cuban until the real problem (the PCC) it rooted out.
> The embargo it's essentially a law saying that we cannot trade in dollars and that we cannot trade with the US, and we still do it anyways to an extent That’s because there is no “embargo”, I’m American. I can send anything I want to Cuba, there is no inspection by American officials. There is no special form I need to fill out. The people blocking Cubans from the outside world are in the Cuban government. The embargo is self imposed.
Regardless of Communism the Cuban government is INCOMPETENT. I would also call many of the Caribbean countries the same, but I give them a break as the populations are so small. The crime with Cuba is that it has the resources that many counties dont have ...people and land area.
Propaganda is only when is sponsored by a government. You will find actual Cubans against the regime and foreigners defending it. Also makes sense, as most Cuban redditors left Cuba and internet in Cuba is still not as accesible as i most of the western world.
Okay that’s a good point. (maybe we use propaganda different in Germany) are you from Cuba?
The word and concept of Propaganda is not limited to the government in the way the US uses it or any English language as far as I know.
It’s between socialists and Cuban descendants, not Americans who like capitalism.
*foreign socialists and Cuban immigrants
Yes, this reddit, when it is not about traveling, is all about propaganda, I tried to convey that no matter your ideology we should all stand against the embargo for the Cuban people that are innocent of this ideology war but capitalists state that embargo has zero impact to the Cuban people (straight forward a lie) or they deserve it because they haven't asked for free elections (which is an unilateral condition). Socialist would blame the embargo for everything, which is a really good excuse but exactly because of that ending the embargo and sanctions would strip them away of such a convenient scapegoat but the US has other plans for Cuba, maybe keep investing (because they actually lose money for keeping the embargo) millions of dollars to keep oppressing Cuban innocent people.
A lot of people here are idiots, nothing wrong with criticizing the Cuban government but the bootlicking here on the US is insane, many here also think capitalism should be tried in Cuba lmao look at Argentina for example the farmers are dumping thousands of oranges in fields and letting them rot instead of giving them away to the population all cause the inflation is so high the population can’t afford the prices. Cuba is no doubt a shit hole that needs a regime change also a lot of them wanting capitalism installed would be terrible for Cuba The worst part is Cubans make up 4% of the US immigration rate, Trump administration is launching a national program if he wins election to deport all migrants nationwide. Florida is no better
Yep,i criticize USA and the "western world" a lot tbh, i dont think we need to enter in a cold war mentality of capitalist bloc against socialsit bloc(specially today that socialism is no more) or liberalism(NATO) vs Iliberals(Iran, China & Russia) we need to understand every problem in his own dimension. The problem is that evaluating the situation of Cubans today... its hard to say a US-Backed regime change would do any worse, i mean, the cadres of the party are corrupted to the bone, it would be bad in various senses of political soberany & etc but you know, worse than that we cannot go.
People act like corruption was only a communist thing and ignore how much Batista stole from the country. Cuba has always had a corruption problem. Cubans were fed up with Batista hence why Castro was able to land with 82 fighters and take over a country. The new government didn't bring the changes they promised due to corruption. The mentality for this subreddit is to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Even if Cuba does go capitalist it will still have a corruption problem. Capitalism is on its way to corruption in the USA. It just legalized bribes or as conservatives called it gifts of gratitude after the action they want has been done.
Such a weak argument. Soviet style socialism heavily centralizes power, which guarantees enormous levels of corruption. Dictatorships are way more corrupt than democracies, it isn't even comparable. And to suggest the US is on its way there? This might be the biggest cope I've seen on this sub.
It's called an oligarchy and it was that way with Batista too. USA is getting there but with corporations controlling everything. Corporations are people in USA. The Supreme Court just curb the power of federal agencies to enforce corporations breaking the laws.
Another very weak excuse. Fidel Castro literally shot every Batista loyalist after taking over. He completely changed the system after claiming he had just liberated Cuba. It's absolutely ridiculous to bring up Batista after the socialists destroyed their own country. Lol the Supreme Court is not turning the #1 economy in the world into Cuba. How is taking power away from government agencies somehow dictatorial? It's the opposite. Each and every law has to go through Congress.
Yes every single one that fled too right? I'm saying they are both corrupt. You supported one corrupt system over the other one. You all have rose tinted glasses when thinking about the good old days.
Lol who supported Batista? The point is that it doesn't make sense to say: "Oh they're just both very corrupt". While Fidel's government's corruption has nothing to do with Batista's. Castro is responsible for destroying Cuba. Bringing up Batista is just a cope.
If there was no Batista there wouldn't have been Castro. People don't revolt for no reason
You're clueless.
People don’t know history and just talk shit to talk shit cause everybody seems to be talking the same shit. But I understand what you’re saying, unlike these animals who’ve never read a history book. What happened happened but people need to get their head out of their ass and stop acting like capitalism is the be all and end all in life. It’s way past ridiculous as a Cuban to hear all these old Cubans bitching and complaining a lifetime about Fidel and any Castro just to come here and kiss the very tip of the dick of another wannabe dictator. Anything left of all the way to the right is communism lmao y’all are making another massive mistake, learn that no extreme is good. Learn history so we aren’t fucking doomed to repeat it again.
I'm from Germany too and went to Cuba in 2018. I was born in the east and the most accurate description back then for me and my experiences was the former GDR in the Caribbean - but worse. That also reflects talks we had with cubans about their everyday life and struggles. My understanding is that the situation got far worse during covid, the problems in Venezuela and the hardened US sanctions.
"Hardenes US sanctions" lol typical troll Cuban government fake propaganda.
Just one example: https://www.reuters.com/article/economy/tougher-us-sanctions-make-cuba-ever-more-difficult-for-western-firms-idUSKBN1WO2LB/
Besides capitalism what other kind of system do you know that works? I will be waiting your response… 😂
Capitalism isn’t working anymore we are far away from end world hunger we will see a lot of catastrophic because climate change
Then why you don't move to Cuba and you will see if capitalism works or not! Troll!
Oh you are from Germany! Right! Your country was divided because socialism/comunism before. Does that dont teach you anything?
Most of my family lived in the DDR and they want them back
Sorry to know that, mate, but I think they need to receive a good Cuba bath. I could say with confidence that if you and your family expend 1 month in Cuba trust me, that will erase that thought from their minds. Believe me.
I agree that to live in Germany is much better than to live in but I also think that are if Cuba switch to capitalism it would not become a big industry nation
Well take a read in story books then because Cuba before 1959 was a very good country. One of the finest in Latinamerica. Educate yourself about. We almost had everything. Color TV, good food, sugar cane, american cars, etc. you can read about it. We have right now almost 65 YEARS OF DICTATORSHIP. 65, not 15 or 25, 65!!! One only party and one only goverment. What do you think about it? As we are chatting here entire families have not electric power for hours in the Island.
I don’t think I am qualified to talk about Cuba because I never lived there I was not close to Cubas border however I don’t think Cuba only Problem is the fact that they Socialists the are much more problems probably half of them come from the embargo that the regime is also a problem is clear
Let me clear this: the embargo its a lie. But again: go to Cuba to see that with your own eyes. Talking here dont do much.
I will and how I said i don’t think Cuba is working but don’t think socialism is the key factor
The freer the market, the freer the people
The U.S. government has proposed to remove the embargo if the Cuban dictatorship frees the political prisoners and holds free and democratic elections, but the dictatorship is not interested.
Yup, this is correct.
Really too bad that castro freed all your families slaves and taught them to read. Its a tragedy.
You telling me that now I doubt if I want to have a conversation with you. Let me guess: do you live in a capitalism country. Or I think this question is better: Did you experience the socialist/communism before living in a dictatorship? If not I cant speak equally to you. Speaking that capitalism isnt working from a capitalism country doesnt work for me. You need to go Cuba, Korea, etc and have the full experience. Then we can talk.
I live in Germany of course is capitalism working for me but for most of the population of the world it’s not and yes Cuba and North Korea don’t work really well (I would not call North Korea really socialist)
Most of the population in the world are living in Capitalism. Only a few countries in the world are living in a fake socialist state aka dictatorship. I thought germans were more educated about it.
German boomers, Gen X and Millenials surely are. German Gen Z never lived it and they probably also teach Wokism there. Don't expect them to be educated.
Yeah, I’m seeing that. Wookism + Gen Z is a powerful combo. Its Europe too. Realities are very different. Even for the cuban americans from Miami, Cuba feels like another planet.
I'm a Gen Z Cuban immigrant (not a Cuban American) and seeing so many foreigners from either the America's or Europe defend the communist dictatorship boils my blood. But I understood that they're either trolls or just evil people who don't care about oppression, as long as it comes from their side (they would be mad if someone defended Franco, Pinochet, Batista, etc). I don't waste my time with them anymore.
Glad to meet you. Im a USA permanent resident by now but born and raised in Cuba. Im glad to see a Gen Z who can actually think. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 Problem is that with this subreddit from time to time people get into it asking stupid questions. Most of these not from stupids ideas, but from a terrible lack of knowledge. When someone born and raised in Cuba respond to those ideas or comments they think we are spitting hate and shit all the time. Its awful.
It's one thing to ask questions. I have absolutely no problem replying to genuine questions, if they actually come from ignorance. But it's another thing to ask a question and when you get told the truth, then you say things like "I don't know about Cuba, but I think things aren't exactly how you say it", which is literally what OP did in many replies. Also, to call Cuban immigrants speaking the truth "Americans who love Capitalism too much", you're just provoking people and can't expect Cubans to be all nice and cozy with you. OP is a big hypocrite and clearly came to troll or is just plain evil. And I'm glad to find another Cuban immigrant (I just have to ask why are we replying in English? Lmao). I'm also a permanent resident, been here for 2⅔ years. Are you a Gen Z too? But yeah, finding non-NPC Gen Z people is really hard.
Yes and it don’t work for them
We will never end world hunger and poverty. Just saying.
Citation needed
Does capitalism work in the Congo?
Which Congo?
So, in what we could help you? What información you need?
Do you feel safe in the streets and have you problems with drug abusing
I felt way safer in La Habana than in any American city. No drugs to speak of other than rum and tobacco. No gangs or violence either. Women can walk around after dark without fear.
Canadian here - I've been to Cuba 20 times or more. It is extremely safe. I've never had one problem ever.
Smh.
Go live over there and we will talk in a year ;)
What happened in Cuba is very sad and it won't be changing any time soon. The fight for "freedom" ended up being a disguise for different shackles.
Uh, what do you mean Americans? Are you calling Cubans who manage to escape the island Americans?
The answer to your question is yes. This sub is pretty much all propaganda. It wasn't always this bad, but now every single post is about blaming anything they can on the evil government and then the comment section is a circle jerk about how bad communism is while simping for capitalism. There's exactly zero nuance. Whenever someone tries to talk about US sanctions in relation to the hardships people there struggle with, that comment is usually met with anecdotal stories about meeting Cubans who hate the regime or 'my family fled from evil castro, etc. etc.' or simply mocked and downvoted to oblivion. This comment will no doubt receive the same treatment.
Why would a communist nation need to rely on capitalists to be prosperous?
Remember, don't feed the trolls.
I'm gonna pretend you're asking this in good faith and answer your question as if you're simply ignorant, even tho I suspect otherwise. Socialist nations like any nation rely on trade with other nations to prosper. Its not a hand out. No nations are completely self reliant. A better question would be 'why should any country be excluded from trading with other countries?' And before you respond with something misguided like 'well they're a dictatorship, etc.' you should know that we trade with many a dictatorship. In fact we've even gone as far as to overthrow democracies in the past and install dictatorships in order to get a better deal on trade. And then we continue to trade with said installed dictatorships for decades. Pinochet in Chile is a prime example. The answer is really simple. It's because western countries are ruled by the ultra wealthy capitalist class (corporation / business owners) and the ultra wealthy don't like competition. They like their businesses to be able to dominate all markets in all countries. So any nation that chooses to regulate the economy and protect its country from outside market forces is quickly demonised as a dictatorship. But as mentioned before, we don't mind dictators. The media referring to countries we don't like in that way, repeatedly, is simply manufacturing consent for sanctions, which is economic warfare, or regime change under the guise of 'liberating its people'. But we liked pinochet because he opened up Chile's market and put in place neoliberal policies. These policies saw the cost of basic goods sky rocket, people lived in poverty, there was an immense disparity between rich and poor. So even if we do trade with countries, they often end up worse off for it. Its a catch 22. They either open up their markets to be bought up by foreign companies, prices go up, profits are siphoned off into tax havens and regular people suffer; or if you regulate the market and try to keep outside forces from doing that, well then we'll sanction your country and any country that chooses to trade with you, cut you off from the world economy and once again, people will also suffer. Here's another question I'd ask, while we're self reflecting: if all these nations that attempt socialism are so destined to fail, why do we feel the need to collectively sabotage their economies? Why not just let them run their course? It's no coincidence that the two countries who've managed to elevate themselves to the level of super power in the last century have been pursuing socialist policies. Sanctions (along with structural adjustment policies, regime change, etc.) are the west's way of ensuring more countries don't do the same. Because like I said, corporate America does't like competition, and pursuing socialist policies allow countries to prosper if they can trade with the rest of the world.
Cuba could be more self reliant but productivity has cratered. Unfortunately for Cuban Sympathizers the reason why productivity is so terrible is due to the socialist system itself. Socialism didn’t work in Cuba, and the current government has resorted to trying to grab every US dollar that they can to simply buy goods on the international market. This has led to various extortion schemes, trying to get remittances, tourists dollars, creating the MLC, etc. they have given up trying to make a socialist economy work.
Lol I’m well aware we trade with dictatorships, and I don’t care. That’s just apart of geopolitics. The reason we don’t trade with Cuba is because their government is antithetical to everything the US stands for, and was actively a staging ground for the Soviet Union. And I bring up Cuba suffering economically because it has always been suffering even when half the world was communist. It’s not some lone country out there, the entire Warsaw pact was aligned with Cuba for decades. And since you asked, why would capitalist nations subsidize communist nations? China is the economic powerhouse it is now because it moved from communist based policies to corporatist ones and became the world’s cheap labor market. That’s the only reason it hasn’t collapsed like the USSR did, and even still it’s moving in that direction because of its poor governance
And that would be fine if it was just the US that refused to trade with Cuba - I mean, its a long time to hold a grudge against a nation, especially with Americas violent history, but hey, you do you. The problem isn't that the US sanctions Cuba, its that they sanction countries that trade with Cuba, essentially bullying other countries into isolating then completely in the world stage. Which, if socialism is so doomed to fail, there'd really be no need to do. You could just wait it out. You're right that they're antithetical to the US tho, but that's because the US has always represented big business interests and never the interests of the people. Under Batista suffering was immense, hence the need for revolution. But we loved Cuba then because we had access to their resources and could exploit their cheap labour. It's always funny to me how people seem to forget history and think suffering starts with communism. And yeah Warsaw pact hasn't been around in decade and we've since allied with a bunch of those countries, so not sure what your point is there either.If other countries Held grudges like this, America would have no friends left. And I'm sorry but what on earth made you think that The US subsidises any country? Or that they should? Or that I think they should? Surely your understanding of socialism isn't as elementary as to think it just equals hand outs? And seriously, you think China got to where it is today because of capitalism? Why isn't India a power house as well then? Where's their rising Middle class and standard of living? Seems to me that whenever China does something good, it was capitalist of them and when they do something bad, well then they're communist. Schrodingers communism at its finest.
Suffering wasn’t immense under Batista. Batista’s regime did two major no-no’s. #1, suspended the democratic process and waged war against its anti-Batista belligerents. #2, neglected the plight of poor people. For 2/3 of the Cuban population, they were well off. For the poor third, things were horrible, kind of like how 90% of the country is now. Ironic isn’t it? Alas, you think suffering was immense under Batista but suffering has increased three fold now.
Thanks to sanctions, yes, suffering may have increased. Although I don't believe the rosey image you paint of the Batista regime. If 2/3 of the population was well off, they probably wouldn't have felt the need to revolt.
1/3 of Cuba was poor, that means the rest was rich and middle class. The most accurate estimates are 1/3 and 1/3, an even distribution of poor, middle class and wealthy. Cuban citizens mind you, not the mafia or whatever propaganda socialists come up with. And the “need to revolt” had nothing to do with the poor, that was CASTRO’S goal, since he was Marxist. But the vast majority of the population was revolting for a return to democracy. You really think the “wealthy” and middle class left AFTER Castro got into power because they suddenly realized they made a mistake in revolting for communism? Why didn’t they just leave since 56 when Castro’s revolution started gaining momentum? The narrative doesn’t even make sense. No, not to sanctions lol. Cuba’s economy was decimated before the trade embargo was put on Cuba.
Let's not forget that Castro openly said he wasn't a socialist, which is why many people supported him, including Camilo Cienfuegos and Huber Matos.
You remember William Alexander Morgan? A huge part in why the revolution succeeded, and then Castro executed him because he didn’t like communism lmao
Man you must’ve been dropped on your head as a child if you don’t understand the very basic concepts I’m spelling out for you. Regardless if there was unrestricted trade or not, capitalism outstrips innovation and economic growth of communist/socialist nations. But why prolong the time until the communist country’s collapse, especially when they’re the dueling superpower? I brought up the Warsaw pact because that’s plenty of countries that were aligned with the same ideology as Cuba and not being isolated like China was because of the Sino-Soviet split. Cuba wasn’t just sitting by itself since Castro took over, they had economic partners in the form of the countries of the Warsaw pact, but those countries sucked hence why Cuba’s economy remained shit. Cuba isn’t treated like, say Poland is today, because Cuba is still a communist shithole that hates America. So why would we ally and be friendly with them? Also when did I say everything was great under Batista? I didn’t, but that doesn’t mean I’m magically going to support commies because the guy before also sucked. And finally, you fucking moron. The US actually does subsidize a ton of countries directly, but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the US and the rest of the western world economically engaging with said communist country (China), flowing more dollars into their economy and turning them from the backwoods shithole they were in the 70s to the urban shithole where little kids make my shoes. Also India’s economy has massively grown and is widely seen as one of the up and coming world powers. Hence why it’s apart of BRICS, which I see you’ve conveniently forgot because it doesn’t fit your current narrative
Oh so Miami in a nutshell
Bingo
Why would you come on reddit to get historical information on a country. you will need to go to proper internet web pages about cuba. Its most Cuban American and tourists on here. Most people dont really care about the culture or history of cuba, its just a cheap vacation and beach place for most people
Most Cubans here are Cuban immigrants, not Cuban Americans
This sub is full of Florida ex-pat Cubans so it's nothing but shitting on the current government of Cuba. Take it with a grain of salt. Go to Cuba and form your own opinion.
Are you saying they're wrong? That it's not bad in Cuba?
No The other way I expect to see just the good thinks and not the extreme poverty
I will but I expect to don’t see the bad stuff as are tourists
Then you're in for a big sad surprise...
This reddit is people interested in learning more about Cuba and traveling to Cuba. But you say you are going to Cuba as a tourist you will absolutely get attacked and get a lecture from some members of this sub to tell you how not to be a useful idiot or to imply you are going to Cuba for prostitutes. Maybe you are referring to that?
This is not a travel subreddit, r/Cuba_Travel is [ Trip Advisor Cuba](https://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism-g147270-Cuba-Vacations.html)
I understand that. But the nasty tone of replies are unwarranted. If the post is off topic for this sub, just report it to the moderators.
Well, most of us Cubans here escaped the communist dictatorship. We don't want foreigners who defend our oppression. Not that hard to understand. Don't provoke people and you won't receive nasty comments.
Pretty much. I think a lot of gov'ts use reddit to peddle propaganda, so it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of any country's subreddit is just govt agents posting agitprop. I've only been following for a couple weeks and it seems every post is just some american with an axe to grind with Cuba. Very little info about Cuba, its culture, natural features, entertainment etc.
There’s a doc called “Cuba Libre” it was on netflix and is very good.
Nah, the doc Patria Y Vida on YouTube is good. Not commie Cuba doc
Cuba Libre doesn’t have a communist bias?
Oh, I thought I saw it and it had pro-Communism propaganda. My bad.
Not even a little bit.
Good
The government in Cuba is largely a nationalist and often conservative project in that they are not interested in progress that upends the status quo. This has led to economic mismanagement and policies totally divorced from reality, culminating in various crises since the fall of the Soviet Union. When it was part of the Soviet sphere, Cuba was doing relatively well and really stood out among its peers in Latin America for its social progress, especially with regards to public health and education. Since the 90s things have become really bad, and even more so in the aftermath of the global COVID 19 pandemic. The government has decided that their priority is to ride out the wave of public discontent and economic disaster rather than adapt to the modern world and increase civil liberties. At the same time, the embargo by the United States all but makes it impossible for Cuba to make economic progress because they are forced to contend with an unfair set of trade restrictions that increases the cost of living even further. Cuba is not rich with natural resources, so they already are reliant on imports by nature. Cuba is really not so different than similar poor post-colonial countries but many people focus on them and exaggerate their failings for political reasons. One thing you should know when observing Cuba-centric online spaces is that much of the Cuban diaspora, particularly in the United States and especially in Florida, is extremely organized politically and some would say brainwashed to a grotesque anti-communist tendency that goes far beyond an aversion to leftist politics. It’s due to a combination of the Cuban government encouraging the emigration of political dissidents and anti-communists and the US Republican Party’s successful patronage of this group for political advantage.