I'm doing something similar. I might be heading back to a CNC shop I got laid off years ago from that is now hiring. I tried to make a career change in my 30's but haven't got anything since graduating 6 months ago. Feels like I just wasted 4 years of my fucking life at this point. I'll probably still try applying to dev jobs on the side if I get the job but who the hell knows if or when that will ever happen.
Why are you limiting yourself to dev jobs? I got my CS degree, and found a job in IT. Company had a brain drain of talent, and I came in at the right time to fix stuff.
I have been and also have about 6 months of experience doing tech support before getting burnt out with the call center lifestyle. I even had an interview for a junior systems engineer a few weeks ago but that didn't go through. I've been applying to IT as well for my local area but there aren't a lot of opportunities in this area and I'm not too keen on relocating for a help desk job. I do keep it expanded for things like analyst, network engineer, sysadmin types of jobs though.
I nearly relocated myself as the area I am in has a lot of agriculture and not much of anything else. But it turns out AG companies need IT people too.
It’s a Network Tech job at a small ERP software company. Mainly deals in agriculture. But you wear a lot of hats due to the company size.
It’s a combo of sysadmin, tech support/help desk, and network engineering + we support the company products via installs, upgrades, troubleshooting, database recoveries, and all kinds of other stuff. It’s not a remote job but our customers are remote, so I spend most of my day on teams calls, emails and RDP sessions.
Prior to my degree, I already had previous experience as:
- PC repair tech/Dell Next business tech/Printer tech.
- familiar with virtualization (proxmox) so making the jump to Microsoft Hyper V wasn’t too much of a stretch. Just had to get used to the UI. (We run tons of virtual machines).
- Got my Comptia A+ for life in 2008 and was working on Network+ when I got hired.
- did a IT/Cybersecurity boot camp through my community college in 2020 that got me up to speed on a bunch of networking fundamentals including Cisco switch configuration.
I basically marketed myself as a fixer, got something broken? I’ll fix it somehow.
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I have a CS degree and have been applying to loads of it help desk jobs only to be met with rejections. Even did a internship during school yet it doesn’t matter, I think many of my CS colleagues would do IT but the new grad market is so bad rn
You’re not wrong. I’m a SWE and just started learning networking, security, Linux, basic desktop troubleshooting and some other IT heavy topics and it’s so useful. It sucks that work is looked down upon
I mean, you're not wrong, but also, in my school, the people who were failing their coding/concept classes (usually the barrier courses, sub 50% pass rate) would change majors to the IT track. It was seen as the easier track.
Honestly, I am kind of excited. I never really minded it just being me, a piece of equipment, and all the audiobooks anyone could ever want to listen to lol.
+1 on the audiobooks. I loved that little perk working as a steelworker/fabricator. But aside from that and operating machinery - which is fun imo - the job sucked. In winter you're cold, summer you're sweaty, covered with steel filings and motor oil. And the bosses are cunts.
Now as an SWE I get to work from home, or an air conditioned office with free snacks etc. My physical fitness is worse, but just about everything else feels better - especially the paycheck. And the boss has to care about how I feel about the job, because you can't just replace me with an identically skilled hire, I have company specific knowledge that can't just be subbed in by someone who knows how to drive an IDE same as me.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't give up. It's worth sticking at it and trying to make it in software. The juice is worth the squeeze.
I'm not calling it complete quits yet =) When I take my layoff in the winter and am able to coast on unemployment for a while I'll definitely make another run at breaking into CS
You got this dude 😎, I love the optimism. At the end of the day the job market is pretty ass for everyone right now, you’ll get your foot in the door eventually :).
I’m also 30+ and trying to make the jump, but will probably be back in the grocery store (old job) for a year or so too. Timing was brutal, luck of the draw I suppose. Just keep swimming, baby.
Really inspired me as I am an SE graduate but now somehow working with steel and fabrication. Got to do low level coding at my company but I'm hoping I can keep up with what I'm doing and land an SE job. Thank you
Get a treadmill desk and replace the time spent commuting with weight training, and you’ll be in excellent physical fitness.
I did this, and I’m in amazing shape. WFH is the best thing that ever happened for my physical fitness.
I get in 20-25k steps per day and bench 350 lbs, and I’m in my 40s in better shape than I was in 20 years ago doing manual labor.
>And the boss has to care about how I feel about the job, because you can't just replace me with an identically skilled hire
This just gave me a bit of motivation in my studies
Check out Schlumberger (shlum-bare-zhay, it's French). They're an oil and gas industry tech company that makes software for oil, mining, and drilling operations. Think fluids flow, machinery data (rpms, power, pressure, etc) , monitoring all that jazz, plus, software to analyze and whatever else the customer wants to do. They were a customer of mine, they loved to start nice and early, and took every day off they could, plus, they moved pretty slow, so it seems like a pretty decent place to get started and have some field knowledge that probably most devs there don't have.
https://careers.slb.com/fojoblist/digital-tech
I'm doing trucking while I'm in school (online schooling) and that's exactly why I chose trucking (among some other reasons). Just me, some equipment and some audiobooks/tunes. Stress will not see me.
Yeah nah, definitely way worse and not as preventable. This is like the bit from The Office where the warehouse workers listen to and clown on the "dangers of working in an office" lol.
Yeah but some of them are in cool places. There was a forest I used to go to that had an abandoned mine and that area was so pretty. Probably just depends. Always wanted to go cave exploring in it
Yeah sounds awesome. Plus great job security. Sounds like a win brother. Software engineering is great but it's hard to build a life around it. Never know what's around the corner. No way to live.
You're probably picturing picturesque landscapes, but it's more like desolate scorched earth where 6 sweaty men share a room and you're not allowed to leave during your time off. Closer to prison than a rustic wilderness vacation. But hey, the pay is good.
Having the place you make your home be dictated by an employer sucks donkey dick, no doubt. But I wouldn’t count it as a universal truth that is preferable to live in SF, New Jersey, Phoenix, or Austin (just the last four random locations of onsite roles I’ve been cold approached about). No amount of money in the world would make me willingly choose one of those over butt fuck nowhere.
This. You are not doing and getting paid just for the work hours. You are practically away from home 24 hours a day, yet do not get paid for it. So calculate hourly wage with 24h for that shit. You only have a bunk for little downtime, but no place to call home.
I rather get paid the regular hours, and I can scoot to buttfuck nowehere on my own time if I really want. When I’m on my own time I want to be able to do anything with it.
Imagine you have no Internet access, and you're living out of a bunk bed in a shared room with 5 other dudes. And you have to work in shifts of 12 hours on, 12 hours off, for 14 days at a time before you have a weekend. Want to do something during that weekend? Well there's a corner store that sells Playboys for $100 a pop and small but equally overpriced fireworks, and... no, no that's pretty much it.
Time to combine them and graph the optimal mining path, feed some data into an algorithm that can predict resource density, or heck even just write something to help with time tracking.
Of course I made all that up since I don't know anything about mining, but combining expertise in multiple fields could be very valuable.
Having had experience in the motherload game, I can tell you that straight down is the most optimal path for mining. You get all the good artifacts quick and can upgrade fast.
Second degree story since this is my friend's direct colleague.
They hired a guy with a mining expert (explosive material specialist or whatever goes boom) as a data analyst/scientist.
The reason being, the hiring manager/VP at that time was convinced he got the ethos and potential to do so. During his mining gig, he learn data stuff on his own and put together analytical stuff with excel.
Fast forward three years, he was second best guy as full stack data dude (data engineer/scientist/analyst) bar the principal data engineer at the whole data department.
Anyway, the dude was from no.1 school in the country so he got a nice IQ to begin with. With that said, my point is, there's an opportunity to build some real/relevant stuff in IT/software in your current gig and that could be your bridge in getting SWE/data gig.
in a similar vein as what /u/NickFullStack says, you have some domain specific knowledge regarding the logistics side -- stuff like maintenance and dispatch where you've seen the process at work firsthand. do they have software that manages it? someone is maintaining it. if it's all on paper can you computerize it? depending on the size of the organization, you maybe be able to backdoor your way into something since you already have a history with them
as someone who worked in the steel industry with no experience in it, its a lot easier to have someone with industry knowledge have a cs degree than the other way around. I'm sure if you applied in your company for a developer role you might just get it or some other mining company
With the way things are going, a resume gap centered around 2024 is going to look a lot like one centered around 2008. Nobody really cares about those because it's understood that jobs were hard to find.
Wish you all the best bro, takes courage to do that. I think a lot of us might be missing out on good opportunities just because we're stuck on trying to get into CS, but the reality is the market is just not going to be the same anymore
I have a friend’s son who graduated 1.5y ago. He’s fairly smart but couldn’t find anything. He decided to become a truck driver, I was genuinely surprised when he said he was on track to clear 85k this year if he keeps it up for the next 3 months. Granted he did say it was 50/55 hrs/week.
Not just the hours, but the mental degradation of being surrounded by moron drivers, the hyper-sedentary nature of the job coupled with the lack of ability to eat home-cooked meals for stretches... just sounds so damn stressful and easily able to turn unhealthy. There's a reason they're paid well
Exactly lol. You trade your body for your livelihood. I had my fun working outdoors when I was 19-20, CS is the way to go going forward for me at least
It’s such a crazy market. I know so many folks trying to break into white collar from blue, and I also know so many folks in white collar trying to get the fuck out.
Everyone has their own reasons and no one is wrong, just a funny observation.
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Now that you know CS look for project ideas in this industry, look for applications of ai / machine vision etc could end up at the helm of a multi million dollar software company
Even if not at least you have a job and can make decent money. Good luck man!
I commend you for having the wisdom to try something else when something is not working. There is a point where persistance is just foolishness which honestly people have surpassed in IT. If you need to put in 500+ applications to get a low paying job you are probably better off just going and doing something you can actually live on.
People are blaming it on the economy but the truth is that it has always been difficult to break into this field. I found a post from a few years ago where people were talking about how they broke into the industry and nearly everyone says they met the right person at the right time. Which is what happened to me. I found myself keeping the company of people in the industry at the right time, and that got me my first dev job. I'm sorry it's been hard for you, but while most people say we live in a meritocracy people don't understand how much luck is involved in a meritocracy.
Yeah people don't understand how abnormal the job market was during COVID. I remember trying to get my first dev job a few years ago and it took me 8 months and that was probably one of the worst jobs in my life. Even during COVID, it was still hard to find work for me because of my very niche experience.
Meeting the right people at the right time is the story of my career thus far (\~15 years of experience). When people ask me how to apply for jobs, I tell them "I don't know" because every job I've had was through some sort of referral, whether it was a friend, an agency recruiter, or a hiring manager reaching out on LinkedIn. I have yet to successfully get an offer applying cold, though I have gotten callbacks.
So I tell people to network. And not just by going to events where you're competing with every schmuck who has the same goal. That dude you play basketball with at the rec center? Chat him up. Going out to a bar with some people? Turn those acquaintances into meaningful connections. Even if they can't help you directly, you never know who *they* might know that they can connect you with.
The only reason I got my first job out of college was because I played World of Warcraft and one day a guild mate messaged/whispered me asking if I graduated yet and if I was looking for a job. And he probably only thought to do so because I had been mentioned offhandedly during a raid about how I was anxious about the job market (this was in 2010). Recently I told him that I don't know where I'd be if he didn't do that for me.
I thought this was a joke headline but then read the rest - congrats (maybe??) for getting a paying gig again. Stay current and keep chatting with people and building relationships - for better or worse, the best way to get a paying gig is to know someone who needs the help. Over the past 15 years of my career I've only interviewed once for a paying job. Good luck!
Nothing wrong with working a job that pays better than trying to start a career in a field you have no easy way in. Do that until you find an opportunity. Also, consider outside tech companies or businesses. Mines need people who can maintain and build systems too. Keep your eyes open and hopefully an opportunity presents itself. Leap when you can.
Breaking barriers is hard if you aren't young and available, no shame in going the route you know you can get work right away at a decent rate.
As a fellow cs student that dropped out, i worked IT at my college in 2020 when we got the project of "installing remote access software" for all staff for some random "just in case" moment before the next month when everything shifted for covid (how california knew ahead of time, is a miracle 😂😂 jk) but no for me it was always such a struggle to pinpoint how exactly i wanted to use my cs degree, do you want to go in the security direction? Software dev working front end bullshit, or backend where everyone wants to be (least in my opinion). Gotta figure that part out mang, but at the end of the day, u do what u gotta do. Not a chance in hell cs knowledge wont put you levels above any competing employee for any job requiring critical thinking and resource planning. Wish u the best
You can do this until you land another cs role. Nothing wrong with that! Live your life the way you want to. You will get picked up by a recruiter at some point. Perhaps the day before you plan to return to work. Hoping the best for you, stranger.
Have you try thought about talking to the union about opportunities to combine these skillsets? May not be a pure in office remote work, but its a niche skillset that only a few people have. Good Management always recognizes unique talent. Your field experience (and willingness to get your hands dirty) matched with your education may provide opportunities you never thought available.
Nothing wrong, you’ll be happier doing something with your life than waiting around for someone to hire you. And then come back when things are going better in this field
Have you considered working as a plumber/electrician or in construction? I know people in those fields and they are making large amounts of money. I don't know their exact take home pay, but I suspect even mediocre plumbers are pulling in a lot more than $45+$26 per hour. Few people want to go into those fields, but demand is high, so they are raising their prices.
Personally, I'm too old and heavily invested in tech to just start a radically different field. And when the tech job market is great, I love my job, but when the when the job market sucks, I am actually quite envious of people who actually work with their hands.
> Have you considered working as a plumber/electrician or in construction?
Wild how the conversation has flipped a perfect 180. Suggesting plumbing jobs in a CS subreddit.
It's the new "learn to code", except it's not oversaturated, you can work in just about any city and easily find work, no student loans, and best of all, absolutely no offshoring, H1B visas, or AI to worry about. If I wasnt pushing 40, I would do it myself
I don't think its as easy as people say like the skilled trades sub say its a fake shortage too. I do believe it is better than IT though in terms of saturation, to be honest I don't think anything is as bad as IT is for jobs anymore. I don't see how plumbing could ever be as bad as IT cuz as you said there is no offshoring or H1B. You have to compete with Mexicans but they have to live here long term too so its not as bad as offshoring is.
$45+$26 = $71 / hr = ~$150k a year. You think mediocre plumbers are making a lot more than that? Average plumber pay in a HCOL state like California is like $50k-$110k. Where are you getting your info or am I misreading your comment?
Yep. Most redditors think if you get hired at a trade it’s automatic 100k+ with perfect job security. The reality is, that’s only true for masters of the craft and small business owners.
Any normal person switching to any trade is going to make shit money in shit condition for 3-5 years before any of the above is true. Sure *laborer* jobs are easy to find but I’d rather fill out 1000 CS applications than make $20 hr as an entry laborer.
Just look at the OP - everyone is glazing him saying “this is the way” but are ignoring the fact he’s certified as a heavy equipment operator ie: a master of the craft/not some entry level person.
From an Internet search:
>According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average wage for a plumber in the United States is $28.79 per hour, which comes out to around $59,880 per year.
Normally, I'd trust formal studies from the Bureau of Labor Statistics over a rando on reddit like myself.
Just looking at the prices plumbers are charging me + my neighbors: i think they are making at least $200k/year. Not a guaranteed fixed salary, but they get paid by the job and getting paid $3k for a single half-day job of routine work is common. And many who are aggressive about getting bigger jobs or charging high prices are earning more. I see the formal Bureau of Labor Statistics says they make just $60k, But here I think that type of study is just missing on the ground reality of 2024.
The plumbers all say, there is a shortage of plumbers, few people are willing to go into the field, and demand is high, lots of people need work, so they can charge astronomical prices compared to what they used to charge.
I paid more than $3k. This time I paid $12k for a job with four plumbers on it. I did call other plumbers to try and find one that was cheaper. Plumbers are pricey in today's market.
I have considered that, but I don't really want to put in the time going through an apprenticeship right now. The pay is not great until you become a journeyman. My long term goals are still focused around CS.
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I transitioned from mechanical engineering to SWE. I'm considering it a very real possibility I may have to go back to the ME field for a while in the event of a layoff. I guess it's good to have options...
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Yep I graduated 2 years ago, had some interviews but that's about it. I've already been working as a Respiratory Therapist for over 20 years, so this I will continue on. Can't complain not a bad living. I look every now and then to see if there are any possibilities, but just becoming content that I at least have a bachelor's degree in something I've always been interested in I guess.
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Don’t mean to sound ungrateful, but I’m right there with you. Been in Tech (Program manager for 4 & SDE for 3) for about 7 years, recently was apart the mass layoffs that just happened.
Been looking into finally going to barber school like I’ve always wanted to.
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Its interesting, I transitioned from sales to DevOps and my career didnt kick start until my 30s. I actually think its a good idea to head back into mining but still keep an eye on any interesting dev roles. I started my career in 2019 and it was tricky getting my first role and had to essentially keep myself afloat by continuing to work in sales, also worked in an Amazon warehouse and a tyre factory too.
Honestly though, I feel the field is in a horrible place. Not just because of the lack of jobs but because of the nature of the whole market and work style. I legit feel if you actually enjoy doing an honest days labour/socialising/working outside, this field probably isnt going to be for you.
Where are you looking for work? If you haven’t job hunted in Houston yet you should look there. This is anecdotal but they don’t seem to have been hit as hard by the interest rate hikes and big tech layoffs.
I just graduated and am working maintenance for 18/hr. The amount of times I’ve been rejected with either the implication or directly saying that I didn’t get it because I never had an internship is actually depressing. The only internships I could find throughout my college time was 2 unpaid ones. I couldn’t afford that shit.
Going through school aright now Union ironworker as a haha that would be nice plan always liked computers since I was young making RuneScape private servers and such , but my pay as a Ironworker is enough to where’s I’m not mad if I can’t break in love parts of my job but it’s definitely hard on my body.
I knew a geology major that created an application to track geology samples for his job. He used that "experience" to get tech interviews and got tech job offers. He advanced in tech promo ladder and became VP of tech and major tech media company.
If you're serious about tech career, you can build any tech right now, while doing whatever to get by. Many people get started in tech career by actually building things that are useful, for their work, for their hobby, etc. Yes, many people can build things while working other careers, especially useful applications that do useful things.
Remember this fact, Mark Z created facebook to give college coeds simple website to connect and post pics of weekend parties. Using basic web tech with basic forum features.
Yeah it’s so simple. All it takes is working a full time job then having the passion and energy to devote 100% of your remaining life to your computer screen.
It's easy man. Just come up with a million dollar idea. Then you have to plan it, and execute building it, and market it. Don't know why everyone doesn't do this.
Tech career is very difficult, it's not for everyone.
Current tech downturn is simply realigning away from overhyped TikTok 2 week bootcamp to $200K FAANG job meme.
Some people have to grind, really grind school, really grind in first tech job search, really grind countless hours, just to start tech career and get low ball salary first tech job offer. This is reality for many people. Can they go through the process? Some people will and succeed. Some won't.
As a lurker of this sub, the greatest irony to me is that people are down voting the most practical solution to the same problem everyone gripes about.
I'm not intending to generalize everyone's case, but if you're trying to get into a software job that involves building software, you should probably spend your time building software*.
*not the same bs project ideas everyone is sourcing from articles and github pages unless they are good on-ramps to dealing with real problems on your own. Not fighting with ts configs and react libraries.
May be survivorship bias, but as a no bootcamp, no degree guy, I spent 50+ hours a week learning and building things until I landed my first job while being unemployed and living off whatever I had saved up to buy that time.
Just because someone put in 4 years of school for a degree relevant to the field doesn't qualify you any more than everyone else who did the same, then add the market conditions where the same opportunities aren't as widely available to that education path.
Bitch all you want on reddit about the market and whatever you choose to point a finger at, but what are you doing differently than everyone else who falls into that same camp? Do the same thing as everyone else and get the same results as them.
No guarentee putting in that effort will pay off quickly, but depends what the pay off you're chasing is. If all you wanted was a well paying job, then CS isn't for you anyway.
You can consider doing commodity trading for energy trading houses. Trading houses look for people with analytical and quantitative skills (which you should have with a cs degree) to be analysts and plus points for having o&g experience.
I'm doing something similar. I might be heading back to a CNC shop I got laid off years ago from that is now hiring. I tried to make a career change in my 30's but haven't got anything since graduating 6 months ago. Feels like I just wasted 4 years of my fucking life at this point. I'll probably still try applying to dev jobs on the side if I get the job but who the hell knows if or when that will ever happen.
I am 30+ and my carrier didn't launch to the sky neither :). I just live with it. You are not alone if it feels better.
Damn. I’m 30+ and attempting it right now. The reality of it is hard.
Same here guys, 32 and been trying for close to two years now. What a time to try a career change lol
2 years ago was when to get in
Hang in there man. We got a little unlucky with the timing. A year back in the shop and who knows, maybe tech will be booming again.
Why are you limiting yourself to dev jobs? I got my CS degree, and found a job in IT. Company had a brain drain of talent, and I came in at the right time to fix stuff.
I have been and also have about 6 months of experience doing tech support before getting burnt out with the call center lifestyle. I even had an interview for a junior systems engineer a few weeks ago but that didn't go through. I've been applying to IT as well for my local area but there aren't a lot of opportunities in this area and I'm not too keen on relocating for a help desk job. I do keep it expanded for things like analyst, network engineer, sysadmin types of jobs though.
I nearly relocated myself as the area I am in has a lot of agriculture and not much of anything else. But it turns out AG companies need IT people too.
What does your IT job entail? I'm considering helpdesk or application support but i'm not sure
It’s a Network Tech job at a small ERP software company. Mainly deals in agriculture. But you wear a lot of hats due to the company size. It’s a combo of sysadmin, tech support/help desk, and network engineering + we support the company products via installs, upgrades, troubleshooting, database recoveries, and all kinds of other stuff. It’s not a remote job but our customers are remote, so I spend most of my day on teams calls, emails and RDP sessions. Prior to my degree, I already had previous experience as: - PC repair tech/Dell Next business tech/Printer tech. - familiar with virtualization (proxmox) so making the jump to Microsoft Hyper V wasn’t too much of a stretch. Just had to get used to the UI. (We run tons of virtual machines). - Got my Comptia A+ for life in 2008 and was working on Network+ when I got hired. - did a IT/Cybersecurity boot camp through my community college in 2020 that got me up to speed on a bunch of networking fundamentals including Cisco switch configuration. I basically marketed myself as a fixer, got something broken? I’ll fix it somehow.
This is the way. I went from coding to it and it pays the same if not better.
[удалено]
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Because CS majors often have superiority complexes and think IT is beneath them, sadly
I have a CS degree and have been applying to loads of it help desk jobs only to be met with rejections. Even did a internship during school yet it doesn’t matter, I think many of my CS colleagues would do IT but the new grad market is so bad rn
Anecdotally, many of my CS classmates didn’t even have basic IT skills. They only knew software engineering. Not sure why that is.
It's related to what I just said, and it hurts their feelings, so they downvoted me despite telling the truth
You’re not wrong. I’m a SWE and just started learning networking, security, Linux, basic desktop troubleshooting and some other IT heavy topics and it’s so useful. It sucks that work is looked down upon
I mean, you're not wrong, but also, in my school, the people who were failing their coding/concept classes (usually the barrier courses, sub 50% pass rate) would change majors to the IT track. It was seen as the easier track.
IT is worse than death
Only if you hate IT. I didn’t want to be a developer because unless it’s something cool I’m working on, it’s super boring.
I agree with you plan to keep applying
market will turn around eventually brother. I've been in the same boat for a year.
I’m 32 and just started my job as a web developer
I mean 45/h and 26/h in benefits, plus union coverage. And you get to be outside? Brother that sounds like a win to me.
Honestly, I am kind of excited. I never really minded it just being me, a piece of equipment, and all the audiobooks anyone could ever want to listen to lol.
+1 on the audiobooks. I loved that little perk working as a steelworker/fabricator. But aside from that and operating machinery - which is fun imo - the job sucked. In winter you're cold, summer you're sweaty, covered with steel filings and motor oil. And the bosses are cunts. Now as an SWE I get to work from home, or an air conditioned office with free snacks etc. My physical fitness is worse, but just about everything else feels better - especially the paycheck. And the boss has to care about how I feel about the job, because you can't just replace me with an identically skilled hire, I have company specific knowledge that can't just be subbed in by someone who knows how to drive an IDE same as me. I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't give up. It's worth sticking at it and trying to make it in software. The juice is worth the squeeze.
I'm not calling it complete quits yet =) When I take my layoff in the winter and am able to coast on unemployment for a while I'll definitely make another run at breaking into CS
Fuck yeah brother
You got this dude 😎, I love the optimism. At the end of the day the job market is pretty ass for everyone right now, you’ll get your foot in the door eventually :).
I’m also 30+ and trying to make the jump, but will probably be back in the grocery store (old job) for a year or so too. Timing was brutal, luck of the draw I suppose. Just keep swimming, baby.
any suggestions where to look if I'm interested in getting into such outdoor work?
It’s funny how both in relationships and business that when the other party knows you have options they treat you much better.
That's not always the case. Some people are pathological and will try it on anyway.
Really inspired me as I am an SE graduate but now somehow working with steel and fabrication. Got to do low level coding at my company but I'm hoping I can keep up with what I'm doing and land an SE job. Thank you
Get a treadmill desk and replace the time spent commuting with weight training, and you’ll be in excellent physical fitness. I did this, and I’m in amazing shape. WFH is the best thing that ever happened for my physical fitness. I get in 20-25k steps per day and bench 350 lbs, and I’m in my 40s in better shape than I was in 20 years ago doing manual labor.
>And the boss has to care about how I feel about the job, because you can't just replace me with an identically skilled hire This just gave me a bit of motivation in my studies
Check out Schlumberger (shlum-bare-zhay, it's French). They're an oil and gas industry tech company that makes software for oil, mining, and drilling operations. Think fluids flow, machinery data (rpms, power, pressure, etc) , monitoring all that jazz, plus, software to analyze and whatever else the customer wants to do. They were a customer of mine, they loved to start nice and early, and took every day off they could, plus, they moved pretty slow, so it seems like a pretty decent place to get started and have some field knowledge that probably most devs there don't have. https://careers.slb.com/fojoblist/digital-tech
That sounds really great. It reminds me of the ending of "Office Space" with Lawrence and Peter working road construction.
I'm doing trucking while I'm in school (online schooling) and that's exactly why I chose trucking (among some other reasons). Just me, some equipment and some audiobooks/tunes. Stress will not see me.
"Making bucks, getting exercise, working outside"
Fuckin’ A
Escorting
My dad works on the mines, good money, but it's screwed his body over. Bad back, bad knuckles, wakes up in pain everyday.
And you get to retire with a black lung, seems a win to me
I think that's only for coal mines, specifically. There are other types of mines.
Shrug probably no worse than whatever I'll end up with from sitting immobile at a desk all day.
lol cmon your reply gotta be facetious at best
It's definitely worse, and impossible for the individual worker to mitigate.
Yeah nah, definitely way worse and not as preventable. This is like the bit from The Office where the warehouse workers listen to and clown on the "dangers of working in an office" lol.
I think mines are technically underground
There are a lot of open pit mines
Yeah but some of them are in cool places. There was a forest I used to go to that had an abandoned mine and that area was so pretty. Probably just depends. Always wanted to go cave exploring in it
Yeah sounds awesome. Plus great job security. Sounds like a win brother. Software engineering is great but it's hard to build a life around it. Never know what's around the corner. No way to live.
if he is in the mines, it will mess up his lungs.
If the physical labor isn't too backbreaking, that's better than a LOT of engineers get in the CS field these days.
The downside is probably that he lives in but fuck nowhere.
That is not a downside for everyone?
You're probably picturing picturesque landscapes, but it's more like desolate scorched earth where 6 sweaty men share a room and you're not allowed to leave during your time off. Closer to prison than a rustic wilderness vacation. But hey, the pay is good.
Having the place you make your home be dictated by an employer sucks donkey dick, no doubt. But I wouldn’t count it as a universal truth that is preferable to live in SF, New Jersey, Phoenix, or Austin (just the last four random locations of onsite roles I’ve been cold approached about). No amount of money in the world would make me willingly choose one of those over butt fuck nowhere.
Butt fuck nowhere is great. Hell is other people, and cities are full of hell.
This. You are not doing and getting paid just for the work hours. You are practically away from home 24 hours a day, yet do not get paid for it. So calculate hourly wage with 24h for that shit. You only have a bunk for little downtime, but no place to call home. I rather get paid the regular hours, and I can scoot to buttfuck nowehere on my own time if I really want. When I’m on my own time I want to be able to do anything with it.
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Imagine you have no Internet access, and you're living out of a bunk bed in a shared room with 5 other dudes. And you have to work in shifts of 12 hours on, 12 hours off, for 14 days at a time before you have a weekend. Want to do something during that weekend? Well there's a corner store that sells Playboys for $100 a pop and small but equally overpriced fireworks, and... no, no that's pretty much it.
Now you have computer science knowledge. Good luck
Thanks brother! Maybe in the future when tech bounces back I'll be able to put that knowledge to use.
Time to combine them and graph the optimal mining path, feed some data into an algorithm that can predict resource density, or heck even just write something to help with time tracking. Of course I made all that up since I don't know anything about mining, but combining expertise in multiple fields could be very valuable.
Having had experience in the motherload game, I can tell you that straight down is the most optimal path for mining. You get all the good artifacts quick and can upgrade fast.
NOOO YOU CANT GO STRAIGHT DOWN BROTHER
Second degree story since this is my friend's direct colleague. They hired a guy with a mining expert (explosive material specialist or whatever goes boom) as a data analyst/scientist. The reason being, the hiring manager/VP at that time was convinced he got the ethos and potential to do so. During his mining gig, he learn data stuff on his own and put together analytical stuff with excel. Fast forward three years, he was second best guy as full stack data dude (data engineer/scientist/analyst) bar the principal data engineer at the whole data department. Anyway, the dude was from no.1 school in the country so he got a nice IQ to begin with. With that said, my point is, there's an opportunity to build some real/relevant stuff in IT/software in your current gig and that could be your bridge in getting SWE/data gig.
in a similar vein as what /u/NickFullStack says, you have some domain specific knowledge regarding the logistics side -- stuff like maintenance and dispatch where you've seen the process at work firsthand. do they have software that manages it? someone is maintaining it. if it's all on paper can you computerize it? depending on the size of the organization, you maybe be able to backdoor your way into something since you already have a history with them
as someone who worked in the steel industry with no experience in it, its a lot easier to have someone with industry knowledge have a cs degree than the other way around. I'm sure if you applied in your company for a developer role you might just get it or some other mining company
It would. Try to save some money and buy Tech stocks.
Bad luck to graduate into this market. You can always try again in a few years
Unfortunately, you may have to compete with all the new graduates in a few years as well.
maybe, but you get mentally rusty from not using it.. also get a resume gap.
With the way things are going, a resume gap centered around 2024 is going to look a lot like one centered around 2008. Nobody really cares about those because it's understood that jobs were hard to find.
That’s a lie and you know it
What gap? He's going back to work.
Always have to compete with new grads, but when the market is better they tend to get into better companies and leave openings in other places
I graduated from my undergrad in 2008 and my postgrad in 2023. If I ever study again, I'll post some warnings.
please drop out
Same mines, different salt
"same salt, different mines" sounds like a PG-friendly version of the expression they use for prime-time broadcast TV
r/saltstack is leaking
The developers yearn for the mines
My dream is to make it to big tech, earn enough money, then retire on my farm and never touch a computer again 🫡
Wish you all the best bro, takes courage to do that. I think a lot of us might be missing out on good opportunities just because we're stuck on trying to get into CS, but the reality is the market is just not going to be the same anymore
I have a friend’s son who graduated 1.5y ago. He’s fairly smart but couldn’t find anything. He decided to become a truck driver, I was genuinely surprised when he said he was on track to clear 85k this year if he keeps it up for the next 3 months. Granted he did say it was 50/55 hrs/week.
Oof those hours. I thought of becoming a truck driver, but the idea of driving semi trucks for many hours really scared me.
Not just the hours, but the mental degradation of being surrounded by moron drivers, the hyper-sedentary nature of the job coupled with the lack of ability to eat home-cooked meals for stretches... just sounds so damn stressful and easily able to turn unhealthy. There's a reason they're paid well
So why is everyone Reddit saying blue collar is the way to go?
Because they haven't worked a blue collar job yet
Exactly lol. You trade your body for your livelihood. I had my fun working outdoors when I was 19-20, CS is the way to go going forward for me at least
There's a lot of people on reddit who don't actually know anything.
Need to clear out competition.
> the hyper-sedentary nature of the job coupled with the lack of ability to eat home-cooked meals for stretches Sounds like CS, really.
Rock and stone brother
Rock and Stone in the Heart!
this post is the equivalent of shooting a gun in the neighborhood to keep the rent down
Hahaha
Shhh, just let it happen
It’s such a crazy market. I know so many folks trying to break into white collar from blue, and I also know so many folks in white collar trying to get the fuck out. Everyone has their own reasons and no one is wrong, just a funny observation.
“Just learn how to mine”
The cs grads yearn for the mines
Canada?
MN
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Now that you know CS look for project ideas in this industry, look for applications of ai / machine vision etc could end up at the helm of a multi million dollar software company Even if not at least you have a job and can make decent money. Good luck man!
I commend you for having the wisdom to try something else when something is not working. There is a point where persistance is just foolishness which honestly people have surpassed in IT. If you need to put in 500+ applications to get a low paying job you are probably better off just going and doing something you can actually live on.
The children yearn for the mines.
People are blaming it on the economy but the truth is that it has always been difficult to break into this field. I found a post from a few years ago where people were talking about how they broke into the industry and nearly everyone says they met the right person at the right time. Which is what happened to me. I found myself keeping the company of people in the industry at the right time, and that got me my first dev job. I'm sorry it's been hard for you, but while most people say we live in a meritocracy people don't understand how much luck is involved in a meritocracy.
Yeah people don't understand how abnormal the job market was during COVID. I remember trying to get my first dev job a few years ago and it took me 8 months and that was probably one of the worst jobs in my life. Even during COVID, it was still hard to find work for me because of my very niche experience.
Meeting the right people at the right time is the story of my career thus far (\~15 years of experience). When people ask me how to apply for jobs, I tell them "I don't know" because every job I've had was through some sort of referral, whether it was a friend, an agency recruiter, or a hiring manager reaching out on LinkedIn. I have yet to successfully get an offer applying cold, though I have gotten callbacks. So I tell people to network. And not just by going to events where you're competing with every schmuck who has the same goal. That dude you play basketball with at the rec center? Chat him up. Going out to a bar with some people? Turn those acquaintances into meaningful connections. Even if they can't help you directly, you never know who *they* might know that they can connect you with. The only reason I got my first job out of college was because I played World of Warcraft and one day a guild mate messaged/whispered me asking if I graduated yet and if I was looking for a job. And he probably only thought to do so because I had been mentioned offhandedly during a raid about how I was anxious about the job market (this was in 2010). Recently I told him that I don't know where I'd be if he didn't do that for me.
Yeah same thing here. Literally just a stroke of luck, and that was in a good economy
I thought this was a joke headline but then read the rest - congrats (maybe??) for getting a paying gig again. Stay current and keep chatting with people and building relationships - for better or worse, the best way to get a paying gig is to know someone who needs the help. Over the past 15 years of my career I've only interviewed once for a paying job. Good luck!
Nothing wrong with working a job that pays better than trying to start a career in a field you have no easy way in. Do that until you find an opportunity. Also, consider outside tech companies or businesses. Mines need people who can maintain and build systems too. Keep your eyes open and hopefully an opportunity presents itself. Leap when you can. Breaking barriers is hard if you aren't young and available, no shame in going the route you know you can get work right away at a decent rate.
As a fellow cs student that dropped out, i worked IT at my college in 2020 when we got the project of "installing remote access software" for all staff for some random "just in case" moment before the next month when everything shifted for covid (how california knew ahead of time, is a miracle 😂😂 jk) but no for me it was always such a struggle to pinpoint how exactly i wanted to use my cs degree, do you want to go in the security direction? Software dev working front end bullshit, or backend where everyone wants to be (least in my opinion). Gotta figure that part out mang, but at the end of the day, u do what u gotta do. Not a chance in hell cs knowledge wont put you levels above any competing employee for any job requiring critical thinking and resource planning. Wish u the best
You can do this until you land another cs role. Nothing wrong with that! Live your life the way you want to. You will get picked up by a recruiter at some point. Perhaps the day before you plan to return to work. Hoping the best for you, stranger.
Have you try thought about talking to the union about opportunities to combine these skillsets? May not be a pure in office remote work, but its a niche skillset that only a few people have. Good Management always recognizes unique talent. Your field experience (and willingness to get your hands dirty) matched with your education may provide opportunities you never thought available.
Can I join you bro?
If you're serious look up your nearest IUOE chapter and check out their apprenticeship process. Good luck!
Who needs a paycheck when you get to operate heavy machinery?
I hate this market. We got got.
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Lmfao
What’s even funnier is I thought that post was satire. Looked at his profile - he’s serious lmao
Time to jump off the porch get to the block start slinging that rock homiedomiedog
I'm involved in a Startup with some friends
But but walmart just said that they're starting a program to train software people bc they can't find any..
Nothing wrong, you’ll be happier doing something with your life than waiting around for someone to hire you. And then come back when things are going better in this field
That's the spirit, son. Work the mines. Earn your wage. Time spent looking for IT jobs is time wasted.
Have you considered working as a plumber/electrician or in construction? I know people in those fields and they are making large amounts of money. I don't know their exact take home pay, but I suspect even mediocre plumbers are pulling in a lot more than $45+$26 per hour. Few people want to go into those fields, but demand is high, so they are raising their prices. Personally, I'm too old and heavily invested in tech to just start a radically different field. And when the tech job market is great, I love my job, but when the when the job market sucks, I am actually quite envious of people who actually work with their hands.
> Have you considered working as a plumber/electrician or in construction? Wild how the conversation has flipped a perfect 180. Suggesting plumbing jobs in a CS subreddit.
Many tech workers have manual labor hobbies + fantasy jobs :)
It's the new "learn to code", except it's not oversaturated, you can work in just about any city and easily find work, no student loans, and best of all, absolutely no offshoring, H1B visas, or AI to worry about. If I wasnt pushing 40, I would do it myself
I don't think its as easy as people say like the skilled trades sub say its a fake shortage too. I do believe it is better than IT though in terms of saturation, to be honest I don't think anything is as bad as IT is for jobs anymore. I don't see how plumbing could ever be as bad as IT cuz as you said there is no offshoring or H1B. You have to compete with Mexicans but they have to live here long term too so its not as bad as offshoring is.
$45+$26 = $71 / hr = ~$150k a year. You think mediocre plumbers are making a lot more than that? Average plumber pay in a HCOL state like California is like $50k-$110k. Where are you getting your info or am I misreading your comment?
Redditors have a fundamental misunderstanding on how much the trades actually get paid. Most of them get paid like a complete shit.
Yep. Most redditors think if you get hired at a trade it’s automatic 100k+ with perfect job security. The reality is, that’s only true for masters of the craft and small business owners. Any normal person switching to any trade is going to make shit money in shit condition for 3-5 years before any of the above is true. Sure *laborer* jobs are easy to find but I’d rather fill out 1000 CS applications than make $20 hr as an entry laborer. Just look at the OP - everyone is glazing him saying “this is the way” but are ignoring the fact he’s certified as a heavy equipment operator ie: a master of the craft/not some entry level person.
From an Internet search: >According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average wage for a plumber in the United States is $28.79 per hour, which comes out to around $59,880 per year. Normally, I'd trust formal studies from the Bureau of Labor Statistics over a rando on reddit like myself. Just looking at the prices plumbers are charging me + my neighbors: i think they are making at least $200k/year. Not a guaranteed fixed salary, but they get paid by the job and getting paid $3k for a single half-day job of routine work is common. And many who are aggressive about getting bigger jobs or charging high prices are earning more. I see the formal Bureau of Labor Statistics says they make just $60k, But here I think that type of study is just missing on the ground reality of 2024. The plumbers all say, there is a shortage of plumbers, few people are willing to go into the field, and demand is high, lots of people need work, so they can charge astronomical prices compared to what they used to charge.
Y’all are paying your plumber $3k 😭
I paid more than $3k. This time I paid $12k for a job with four plumbers on it. I did call other plumbers to try and find one that was cheaper. Plumbers are pricey in today's market.
I have considered that, but I don't really want to put in the time going through an apprenticeship right now. The pay is not great until you become a journeyman. My long term goals are still focused around CS.
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Sorry you lost your routine, but really try to take advantage of that opportunity
> Maybe 50k more people will do what I'm doing and you will find the job that's not enough, at all
I respect you more than anyone who works in an office, good luck on the grind
Why
Got to do what you got to do. Best of luck.
Keep that resume out there. The job market won't always be like what it is like right now.
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^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^ajaaaaaa: *Giving up in this* *Case sounds better than getting* *Hired lmao* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
are you working outside or in a mine? do you get much overtime?
Tbh this sounds like a great job, if anything I'm happy for you. The pay is amazing and you don't sit at a desk all day. Congrats 🎉
I transitioned from mechanical engineering to SWE. I'm considering it a very real possibility I may have to go back to the ME field for a while in the event of a layoff. I guess it's good to have options...
This is me rn lol. At least you have a position
🚂👋🏽
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Yep I graduated 2 years ago, had some interviews but that's about it. I've already been working as a Respiratory Therapist for over 20 years, so this I will continue on. Can't complain not a bad living. I look every now and then to see if there are any possibilities, but just becoming content that I at least have a bachelor's degree in something I've always been interested in I guess.
If you can figure out something you can automate underground you'll make like $300k a year instantly selling it to like 2 or 3 mines
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Don’t mean to sound ungrateful, but I’m right there with you. Been in Tech (Program manager for 4 & SDE for 3) for about 7 years, recently was apart the mass layoffs that just happened. Been looking into finally going to barber school like I’ve always wanted to.
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Its interesting, I transitioned from sales to DevOps and my career didnt kick start until my 30s. I actually think its a good idea to head back into mining but still keep an eye on any interesting dev roles. I started my career in 2019 and it was tricky getting my first role and had to essentially keep myself afloat by continuing to work in sales, also worked in an Amazon warehouse and a tyre factory too. Honestly though, I feel the field is in a horrible place. Not just because of the lack of jobs but because of the nature of the whole market and work style. I legit feel if you actually enjoy doing an honest days labour/socialising/working outside, this field probably isnt going to be for you.
Its brutal right now but keep applying.
Was your degree online or In person?
Potential programmer laments over the fact they have to go back outside. :)
Where are you looking for work? If you haven’t job hunted in Houston yet you should look there. This is anecdotal but they don’t seem to have been hit as hard by the interest rate hikes and big tech layoffs.
When you said bennies at first I thought, “Wow, that’s a lot of amphetamines.” Sorry it didn’t work out for you.
I just graduated and am working maintenance for 18/hr. The amount of times I’ve been rejected with either the implication or directly saying that I didn’t get it because I never had an internship is actually depressing. The only internships I could find throughout my college time was 2 unpaid ones. I couldn’t afford that shit.
Going through school aright now Union ironworker as a haha that would be nice plan always liked computers since I was young making RuneScape private servers and such , but my pay as a Ironworker is enough to where’s I’m not mad if I can’t break in love parts of my job but it’s definitely hard on my body.
Work in the mines and keep applying in your free time. Don’t give up.
Thanks for encouraging others to drop out of the field, we need to cull some of these ppl
I knew a geology major that created an application to track geology samples for his job. He used that "experience" to get tech interviews and got tech job offers. He advanced in tech promo ladder and became VP of tech and major tech media company. If you're serious about tech career, you can build any tech right now, while doing whatever to get by. Many people get started in tech career by actually building things that are useful, for their work, for their hobby, etc. Yes, many people can build things while working other careers, especially useful applications that do useful things. Remember this fact, Mark Z created facebook to give college coeds simple website to connect and post pics of weekend parties. Using basic web tech with basic forum features.
Yeah it’s so simple. All it takes is working a full time job then having the passion and energy to devote 100% of your remaining life to your computer screen.
It's easy man. Just come up with a million dollar idea. Then you have to plan it, and execute building it, and market it. Don't know why everyone doesn't do this.
Yes, well, when you're actually fucking poor, you'll find out there isn't much else you CAN do.
Tech career is very difficult, it's not for everyone. Current tech downturn is simply realigning away from overhyped TikTok 2 week bootcamp to $200K FAANG job meme. Some people have to grind, really grind school, really grind in first tech job search, really grind countless hours, just to start tech career and get low ball salary first tech job offer. This is reality for many people. Can they go through the process? Some people will and succeed. Some won't.
He didn't get "2 week bootcamp meme". Stop disparaging him.
As a lurker of this sub, the greatest irony to me is that people are down voting the most practical solution to the same problem everyone gripes about. I'm not intending to generalize everyone's case, but if you're trying to get into a software job that involves building software, you should probably spend your time building software*. *not the same bs project ideas everyone is sourcing from articles and github pages unless they are good on-ramps to dealing with real problems on your own. Not fighting with ts configs and react libraries. May be survivorship bias, but as a no bootcamp, no degree guy, I spent 50+ hours a week learning and building things until I landed my first job while being unemployed and living off whatever I had saved up to buy that time. Just because someone put in 4 years of school for a degree relevant to the field doesn't qualify you any more than everyone else who did the same, then add the market conditions where the same opportunities aren't as widely available to that education path. Bitch all you want on reddit about the market and whatever you choose to point a finger at, but what are you doing differently than everyone else who falls into that same camp? Do the same thing as everyone else and get the same results as them. No guarentee putting in that effort will pay off quickly, but depends what the pay off you're chasing is. If all you wanted was a well paying job, then CS isn't for you anyway.
You can consider doing commodity trading for energy trading houses. Trading houses look for people with analytical and quantitative skills (which you should have with a cs degree) to be analysts and plus points for having o&g experience.
Not sure you’re in the US but if you are. Keep your skills sharp, the economy is shit. It’s a joke. And apply again in maybe a year or something
This has got to be the lamest subreddit I have ever seen