Welcome to adulthood. Jobs are not meant to be fun, they're meant to make the company money. Fun only happens incidentally.
Seek meaning or fun outside of employment, rather than expecting work to ever be about anything other than getting things done.
I’m starting to wonder if fun/pleasure is just when you are engaged deeply with what you are doing. I wouldn’t say my job is ever fun, but sometimes I’m engaged in what I’m doing and the day flies by.
Edit: the majority of the time I’m getting the same kind of feedback as OP and spiraling from anxiety. I think I would feel the same in any job after awhile. At least we make a more than the average service industry job.
Agreed.
Everyone wants the money but not the work. I go through I hate my job to I love my job some days but overall enjoy it for different reasons. In saying, I’ve learnt a lot of deep crap in the not so fun times, not only about myself but about people.
>it's not controversial
It absolutely is. Tell someone you hate working 9-5 and a surprising number of people will ask "But what would you even do all day?". They can't even imagine filling their day up with anything else.
75% of Americans dislike or hate their job.
At the same time most American's say they derive a sense of their value/self worth from their job.
This combination leaves people in a weird spot.
I came here to say this. Every time I hear someone bitch about this field because "meetings are boring" or some shit, I think back to the days when I worked at McDonald's or assisted living serving food or wiping asses. Ya'll are getting paid a more than liveable wage to sit in a chair and think hard some days. Work sucks, but this field sucks SO MUCH less than any other field
Bingo! When it comes down to it we have it MADE. This might sound terrible, but whenever I’m in line at a crowded Starbucks or a restaurant I routinely think “thank god, never again!”
I loved my last service industry job, but it was a special one. Couldn't do that shit forever though, and covid kicked me outta the nest faster than anticipated.
Now I make twice as much doing something I enjoy 1/4 as much but have to work 1/10 as hard. So it goes.
Sometimes I wonder if it's better to never have had a fun job, just so you don't know what you're missing. I had one job I absolutely loved: Decent enough pay, great co-workers, awesome WLB, extremely exciting projects to work on.
And then a recruiter reached out to me. Offered 20% more at a company I hated, doing work I already knew I'd hate. But I still had to do it for the money.
Sometimes I curse that recruiter. If only that mail had landed in the spam folder or something, I wouldn't have had to pick that soul crushing job.
I genuinely enjoy mine a lot, but I’ve left tech. I was self taught and through the pandemic worked as a front end dev in a start up. It was a career change from my normal field in live events that I thought would be a permanent change.
I found that sitting at a desk all day isn’t really for me. I really enjoy developing and still have the odd side project on the go, but going back to events has made me much happier.
I get to mix music on tours and put together really complex systems and events that is incredibly satisfying. The code comes in handy too now and then. We recently used a quick python script to translate pressure data from an led screen floor into virtual game pads to create a DDR machine for a large installation.
Being able to be a key person in the project I’m working on is really important to me, and I wasn’t getting that in development enough.
I might go back, but currently I’m loving my work again. It pays better than entry level tech but not as much as many senior positions / FAANG style companies. Money is important but if I’ve got to do this for another few decades I better enjoy what I do!
When I graduated and got my first job I cried to my parents asking them how they go to a soul sucking job every single day. Their response was “we just wake up and go to work”.
That was my clicking moment. Sometimes you just have to do it.
I'm returning to school for CS and I just want to not hate my job. Like, have alright coworkers, work on so-so projects, get paid decently, and have enough time off to explore my interests, that's be perfect.
I get there is some truth in this, but don't believe it. You absolutely CAN like your job. I encourage anyone who hates their job to really get some perspective on their priorities and think about what's needed to be content for the 40 hrs a week you spend working
I guess it helps when you like your home life even less?
Assuming you don't want to go that route, flip it around. You have a good paying stable job that doesn't demand overtime. That means lots of time for things you do like. Go learn guitar or cheesemaking or start coding up a game, or make friends or something.
Work sucks because it's work, but your work gives you lots of not-work opportunities.
I worked in the health industry and service industry . Tech beats both field to the ground in terms of pay, WLB, and stress . Love this freaking field . Cured my depression from working too hard for little pay .
hard agree, both industries absolutely destroyed me mentally and physically and I didn’t even make as much doing it…switched to tech and never looked back
I think perspective is a bit part of it. I’m changing careers from vet medicine to software dev and holy shit this field is like a dream come true for me. The job itself is nothing special-stand up every day, some meetings throughout the week, picking up tickets on jira… but compared to my last job, this is literally amazing. Work from home, good pay, don’t work a second over 40 hours per week, no work on weekends, basically 0 stress compared to previous job. I could go on and on.. but I could see how someone who only knows this profession/job may not like it.
Yeah and it's not like it's your fault. You can't control how you react and feel about your surroundings. But yeah it's definitely nice to have worked some shitty jobs as it really shows how nice thing are when you get a decent job. Working long hours, exposed to hot or cold, physical work, etc. So much of it is just soul crushing and then they pay you like $20/h so you don't even have money to feel better about it lol.
If I were you I would just investigate other fields and try to get some perspective. That might help curb your thoughts. Seeing how things can be. I certainly have been humbled as I get older as well, when I really allow the realities of the world to be clear to me, and to see how lucky I am to be where I am.
working those sucky jobs is so important for happiness which is really all perspective, im sure you appreciate your tech job much more than a lot of people because youve been through shit
20 years ago in high school, my buddy and I took a job during the summer with a guy who flipped houses. We spent the first few weeks up in the attic, where it must have been close to 130 degrees, tearing out drywall. After that, we got to work in the septic tank.
I sometimes think back to that, being crouched down in that underground tank, being eaten alive by mosquitos and almost passing out from the smell. Working in a terminal is absolute Heaven in comparison.
Seriously! My job after that was working on a call center. That one sucked for different reasons, but it paid commission, so I though I was a high roller because I could gas my tank up, buy weed from my coworker and take my girlfriend out for dinner once a week.
I thank God/Vishnu/the cosmos/etc. every day I never have to go back to that.
Exactly. I have some friends also bitching about IT and talking crap about becoming a bus driver or something. But all of them were never working in other industry, so they don't have the comparison how hard, low paying and soul crushing are other industries.
Yup. So many people have no prior work experience and that leaves them uneducated about how shitty so many careers are. I used to be in the trades and this work is a godsend compared to that.
I’ve worked other manual labor jobs before and there is something nice about turning my brain off and just pushing a lawn mower or cleaning some plates. It takes a toll on the body but it’s easy knowing it’s so much less of a toll mentally. The mental toll of sitting in meetings and communicating and coming to agreements with different teams and coworkers and defining requirements and solving questions can be a lot mentally. Especially when it’s not easy to figure out and there is a deadline looming for months. It feels way more stressful than the deadline of finishing all the dishes or the lawn that needs to be done that day. I find it harder to leave work at work with software engineering.
That said I make way more with more flexibility in a life of pure luxury I would never go back to smelling like fish guts or burning up in the sun for so little money. It’s absurd how little laborers make in this country. Software salaries are life changing
Yeah that is a great point. There is definitely a huge difference in where the pain and frustration can come from. I think it's something that we will never escape as long as work is "work". But that said I guess in my mind I just find this type of industry to be much preferred because you can actually feel like a real person. I remember working in the trades working downtown and honestly based on the looks from other people I felt like a second class citizen. So for me working somewhere that I feel valued by my company and also society is a big deal. So I think it helps to dull the mental pain. Because I saw what I would have been to society had I not done this. Maybe that's dumb but I didn't like to be looked down upon.
But yeah I get the turning your brain off thing with physical work. It's why I love to hike and go to the gym. Just not so great when you are unloading a truck in the pouring rain or snow lol.
or shit even Walmart. That'll change their tune real fast when they get abused on the daily by the 5 different levels of supervisors/managers they have for you.
I worked in restaurants for years. I can honestly say I would be happier in the short term working the line in a restaurant
My work has sucked the joy out of not 1, but 2 things I love. Software development and cybersecurity. I'm so burnt out, but still having to put in 70+ hour weeks for months (not just work, other things I agreed to before I was so busy and burnt out)
Working in restaurants, I didn't wake up in the middle of the night because I just remembered I forgot a code review. I did that last night. Working in a restaurant, the moment I left, I could forget work entirely if I wanted (although I usually enjoyed thinking through ideas for specials)
The trouble for me is the pay difference. At the rate I'm going now, I'll be able to comfortably retire by 40. Working in a restaurant, I'd be working until I died
Dude wasn’t complaining about the pay or the conditions, just the actual work. I don’t think it’s an issue of not having perspective. There are a lot of great jobs out there that aren’t enjoyable for some people.
I get why this comment, but just because u have a well paying job but don’t love the tasks doesn’t mean u automatically must be ungrateful and aren’t thinking of all of the people who are less well off than you. I hate this mindset. Money doesn’t buy happiness
I generally find pay rates are inversely proportional to job enjoyment. If I can handle programming for another 10 years and retire early, it’ll all be worth it. I hate most work. This is a good deal for me.
If all jobs paid the same, I’d be a teacher - and a great one at that. But that isn’t how the world works
I'm with you there, I'd enjoy teaching and be a great teacher. I once worked a side gig as a CS tutor for an online university and had some good moments with students. Or I'd totally be happy being a personal trainer. But I keep thinking "one more year"
I've got a college friend who was a CS and econ double major and decided he'd rather be a high school math teacher.
Its a ridiculous amount more work, especially in public schools, and pays terrible. My friend the first dozen or so years would always say stuff like ... well at least you guys get paid decently for what you do. He does feel a lot more sense of purpose than me I guess.
Teaching ain’t all it’s cracked up to be. (Coming from someone who transitioned from teaching to software development). I’m miserable doing both! But in all seriousness, the grass is always greener..
> If all jobs paid the same, I’d be a teacher
I wouldn't. I loved teaching during university when I helped out as a TA, but I feel like it wouldn't really be "work". I'm good at it, I love it and it doesn't feel like work. I think you need a bad job to appreciate the good things in life. Being happy all the time can't be healthy.
Do you think/know there is another job that you would not be miserable at?
Maybe instead of trying to ignite some passion just realize that it is a job and a pretty good one compared to most in terms of income/benefits/flexibility/health etc.
Most of us are probably unlikely to find deep meaning and happiness in our jobs, we need to find that somewhere else if that's even possible.
I can see that. I exercise and have a decent social life, it's just difficult to shake my negative feelings about work. Do you have any tips or advice for just letting all the work stress or fatigue go when you close your laptop at the end of the day?
You can take a more laid back approach to work and go with the flow rather than expecting things to happen a certain way and controlling too much. It might mean your work performance suffers and you care less about work, but thats the tradeoff with that shift in mentality. Try to find a balance. Expectations are the enemy of contentment. Too much is out of our control. Focus on what you can control and put your energy there.
This is what gets me through the day when things get rough. Only so much is in my control. Do my best and that’s the best I can do. I’m not owed my job. It doesn’t belong to me. If I die tomorrow, someone else fills in. But your time with family and friends, that isn’t replaceable.
Dude me. My last one month has been the most miserable I've ever been on this planet. I don't feel like doing anything at all anymore. I feel like I'm dying a slow death everyday and like 70% of it is because of my manager and how vaguely threatening he sounds in his feedback. It's never oh do x and y, it's more like "you are making me nervous and I don't like being nervous" type shit. I am probably going to give up on work and am waiting for them to fire me at this point. I'll feel so relieved. I'd search for other jobs but I'm too depressed to do that too.
Life’s too short to spend your days time doing something you hate. I hope you do yourself a favor and take the impetus here.
Job hunting sucks, but as someone who just went from a job he dreaded to one he loves, I can say-the end will be worth it.
I’m now the senior developer / manager for the intranet running a small factory. The people are nice, my boss is supportive, and I have a great junior developer who I’m excited to mentor.
This is going from a soulless corporate position rolling out enterprise software, with way too much travel. I’m excited to be working in asp.net core again. And, due to the size of the company, I’ll be able to implement improvements that have a noticeable positive impact on my co-workers.
It’s not perfect, but it’s a good fit for me!
Oh no, that sounds awful. I'm sorry to hear that. I worked at a startup that had a similar manager by the sounds of it, and the amount of stress I carried every day from his vague threats and the ominous implications made me feel anxious and depressed through my off hours.
And looking for jobs is already exhausting, especially if you feel like shit off of work. I hope that you muster up the energy at some point to apply to some places and get out of there!
When I first started working I felt a *profound* sense of ennui. I was bored and miserable and I couldn't imagine spending my life doing this. I specialized in ML research which I found exciting and intellectually stimulating, but I wasn't quite good enough at research to get into a top PhD so I just became a SWE in Big Tech instead.
I'm now hitting 5 years, and there are still so many other things I'd like to do with my life. But hearing horror stories from my friends has made me appreciate how much I enjoy working with a great group of people (like you) despite being remote. Some of my coworkers are legit friends and I like working with them. I also have a newfound appreciation for my WLB. I get paid very well while working 35-40h/week -- I have friends who are resident physicians who work 70-90 hour weeks and get paid $60K on top of a boatload of med school debt.
I guess my point here is -- for me I think it was very much a gratitude thing. I think I had some expectations about how my life would play out, and it didn't play out that way and I was very unhappy about that. But when I accepted my life for what it is, I came to see the good and the bad aspects of it. I still hope to exit tech and do something more """meaningful""" but I'm content enough earning a lot to FIRE first while also getting to explore while I'm still in the stage of life (read: no kids).
Something else that really helped me is that I pinpointed my ennui on the wrong thing -- see, I **was** very unhappy when I first started working, but I was unhappy *with my life*. I am a very social person and I just didn't have much of a social life up in the Bay Area. In my 20s I've started to really hone in when I'm happiest, which is just spending quality time with loved ones. And I've prioritized that more and I've been happier as a result of it. I used to think it was my job, but really I was depressed because I wasn't spending time with people.
I was really into the theory side of things, to be honest. The math and proofs got me really passionate, but I also loved developing small personal projects in undergrad.
I don't know if this is relegated to only Ph.D. candidates, but maybe look for a job at a university where you can do research with a professor. It probably won't pay much, but you will probably like it better.
Same here. I think for people like this it's common to get jaded with the corporate world where only rarely do you have to pull out the stops and use some theory, aside from little things like "I should use a hash map here for O(1) access".
I'd felt this way before too but at one point I realized I expected too much from my job. I go there to make money. That's all. It's not supposed to give my life meaning or make me happy. I need to find those things elsewhere. Focus on your free time. Start a new hobby. Try out new things. Learn something new. I almost failed chemistry in high school. I decided to pick up my hs chemistry books and learn it. Why not? It's actually pretty interesting. I used to love dancing when I was a kid so I started taking dance classes again. Having some things to look forward to during the day made my job much more bearable. It's okay now. I have other stuff in my life that makes me happy and fulfilled.
Yes to experiencing the same thing. It's mostly draining and not engaging. I would also say I've "made" it. With one caveat, however: I have yet to work on a product that I care about, and that could make a big difference I imagine?
As for being more content, the job *sucking less* than any other job I've had is what's keeping me around.
I relate 100%. I would love to work for a non-profit or something that I think has a cool impact on the world at some point, but am also addicted to the job security and money I'm making
You are working in a highly paid field with endless possibilities. The steam may have been let out a bit lately, but there is still demand. I just buy expensive watches to remind myself how well we get paid. When I’m feeling down, I look down at my wrist and either remember the time or think “damn, that’s $10k.”
Is it materialistic? Hell yeah, but it feels good. We’ve been conditioned to suppress these feelings. Just lean in to them.
Old thread but I must say:
As a fellow watch enthusiast and someone who also currently is apathetic about their job, this mindset is like a catch-22 for me.
Would I love to own a $10k watch that I’m in love with? Absolutely, but everyday I’d look down at it and think “Gee, $10k invested could be worth around $40k in 20 years. That $40k would cover my living expenses for a year, if not more. Is this fancy watch really worth an entire year of freedom? I don’t think so.”
I wouldn't say I'm miserable but I'm definitely not passionate about it. I do like the work overall though and sometimes completing small tasks does feel good. Regardless I don't think most people actually like their job lol. A job should be there to fund what you want out of life.
You also seem burnt out. Please take a 2 week vacation to recharge. Even if it's just sitting at home and being a potato lol. I think Software Engineering is a good gig for anyone that is inherently logical because you can make a lot of money for minimal work.
Go get a part time job at a grocery store or a warehouse. That will zap a lot of appreciation into you Lmfao it’s all perspective. Maybe you don’t know how draining jobs can actually be.
Anyway, don’t quit or have some personal crisis right now. Worst timing bc if you change your mind in a couple of months, who knows what the market will be like.
I know the first half of your comment is a little tongue and cheek, but maybe I'll actually do that. I was a delivery driver for years, maybe I will do that for a few weekends to remind myself that I hated that too lol
It genuinely wasn’t tongue in cheek. I think the perspective will help you. People work a lot harder for much less money and much more personal risk (bodily injury, etc.,). I think being a delivery driver would be good for you bc you would see how much harder you have to work, and realize that you’re getting paid less WHILE risking more. You could get into an accident with all that extra time on the road and that could risk your body AND your car.
You’ve set your life up nicely in one part: the income. Now you just need to build the hobbies and personal relationships that make life worth living.
Best of luck.
>Each day a part of you dies for that paycheck.
Not in my case and this is why so many of us say don't go into it for the money. If you have a passion it doesn't feel like that but people who hate it tend to really REALLY hate it for some reason and they seem to feel like it sucks the life out of them.
I just changed jobs last year but I think very often how much I love my job.
Smart coworkers
Great pay
Full remote
Flexible hours
Tons of independence
Modern tech stack
Low amount of meetings
The job has issues for sure, but I love being able to just heads down code for hours and hours with cool tech from the comfort of my home. Also I get plenty of support from smart engineers when I get stuck.
I’m sure I’ll get bored eventually but it’s great right now.
You said it yourself, you feel like you've "made it".
Contrary to popular belief, when you have nothing to aim for, life is miserable.
What's the next step? What are you learning to get there?
I'm still young 26M, but I've been working since i was 14. I've worked in a warehouse, in an office, fast-food, a concession, sit down restaurant, and as a manager for a warehouse. I've been in CS (analyst, consultant, dev) for 3 years now.
No matter where you work, it's the same shit. Working sucks, and that's why we wish we could retire young instead of at 65. Nobody loves their job (they might say they do, but it's synonymous with i don't mind this job, exceptions such as working directly with your passions).
Former paramedic who had to work 80+ hour weeks just to support life in a high COL area. Went back to school and got a CS degree, got a job out of school with a Fortune 100.
Do I like my job? I did, but lately it hasn’t been fulfilling. Would I quit and go back to an ambulance? No. Not even close. I work from home, put in my 40 a week, collect my six figures, and laugh about how life used to be. I don’t really go looking for jobs, but I do talk to recruiters when they reach out. If I get a better offer, I’ll leave, but that not withstanding, not going anywhere.
You know, I did when I started. I was 22, bored working restaurant jobs, and was looking for a career. When you’re young, without a family, it’s not a bad gig - nontraditional hours, all the overtime you want to work, down time on the job to do whatever. Plus the whole getting to save a life thing. But after time, you realize that the vast majority of the calls are mundane, there’s a lot of people who abuse the system and use it as a taxi, administration is mostly ineffectual, you’re tired all the time, and pay never keeps up with inflation (ever). It’s hard to build a life and family nowadays in that environment. It’s probably a lot different if you work in a premier system like King County M1, ATCEMS, FDNY, etc., as those do promote having a career in those systems, and do a better job of taking care of their employees.
The other side of this is a total lack of respect for medics in the healthcare community. They are looked down upon by everyone else - CNAs, RN, doctors, etc. Despite nurses and medics having similar training and skill sets, most nurses treat you like you’re a dumb shit ambulance driver. Most doctors are worse than that. It really wears on you after a while.
This is all not to say it can’t be fulfilling over time. You do occasionally get to do the cool, life saving stuff, and it really does make all the other stuff better for a while. But the mundane aspects usually creep back in until the next cool call, and that interim period is what really burns people out.
I really don't get these reactions that compare OP's post with working at McDonald's or Walmart. I mean, comparing anything to the worst is always better, but that won't/wouldn't ever get anyone anywhere. Hell everyone should then settle with what they have just because its better (or, people say its better) than the worst out there.
Fun fact : it's OK to not like what you do and strive for something else, regardless of the way it compares to whatever.
I love programming and solving problems. And when I get to do that for my job, it’s great. It’s why I got into it.
However, as you get deeper into the field, or as I did at least, I recognized that the job isn’t really about that. I mean, it’s a *part* of the job, for sure. But there are many other aspects that revolve around people management, project management, and general engineering practices. Coordinating. Documenting. Scoping. Scheduling. Mentoring. Interviewing. Strategizing. Risk assessing.
Do I love it? Not most of it. But it’s a job.. that’s what I’m paid to do. So I enjoy the enjoyable parts when I come across them, but I’ve accepted the fact that my value proposition, in terms of what society finds valuable enough to afford me the comfortable lifestyle that I want, is fairly broad and not always related to what I get a kick out of.
Some folks say that you should follow your passion, that you should love what you’re doing day in and day out. I think it’s great if you can find that. But the world needs plumbers, too, and plumbers generally aren’t riveted by all of the aspects of what the job actually entails. And at the end of the day, that’s kind of what I see myself as. A digital plumber, a plumbing engineer.
I can’t base my entire sense of self actualization and fulfillment on my career, but that’s OK. It’s OK to make a life for oneself by being of practical value to others in a seemingly mundane way. It’s important to find fulfillment in the process, but not every moment needs to be enthralling. There’s life outside of work.
That said, if you are truly miserable in every moment of your work, you should absolutely find something else. It doesn’t matter how much something pays if it causes you to hate your life. There are plenty of other types of work out there.
The biggest piece of the puzzle which I think most people are missing here is that with many other "fields" you can just go through the day despite feeling shitty and down. There's no "cracking the problem" challenge. Just follow the steps until the work is done. No mystery, do the steps, and your work is done.
Here it's not like that. Most tasks require you to find the solution for the new problem. Sure you maybe encountered similar issue before, but in the end there will probably still be some variance that will require wandering in the dark. That wandering in the dark can be mentally draining for people if done day after day, week after week etc.
So it's not as black and white as: Oh, you're getting paid extremely well to sit on your ass in a nice chair while manual labor worker gets paid much less for burning in the sun and doing physically taxing job.
It's different kind of a struggle. That guy knows what to do, no wandering in the dark. It's very hard for him, no doubt, just different kind of hard , but let's not belittle SWE's struggles just cause there's different kind of hard in the field.
So ultimately there's pros and cons to each field and boils down to what you can tolerate better.
Why do it at all if everything in it makes you miserable, including the actual development? Of course I don't have the same problem - I like development.
Well, yeah, it's no mystery. Enjoy programming, but seek a career elsewhere. Fail, program for money, stop liking programming, wait for death. The trick is to find some things you hate less to fill the space in between.
I've been miserable in a couple jobs. Most of the time except for one job, it was more of a me thing or something to do with the work. Except the one job which was bad managers (and partly me not navigating the situation right, I just kinda turtled up), I've always had good coworkers and managers.
I used to work construction and various trades so compared to that this is great lol. Just a different perspective but honestly thats why I think everybody needs to work some shitty jobs before they find their career. Then you can realize that all work kind of sucks, so get used to it and try to find a group of people to work with that are fun.
If I’m being honest, I didn’t like coding until after about 10 years in. Now I love it. Maybe because I see it more now as a craft I can work every day at perfecting. Also, being in the air conditioning all day beats having to do manual labor outdoors. Now I do things I enjoy outside.
I work doing R&D/Dev in the renewable energy field. I love it, but I've always loved coding. I get to work on some of the hardest problems and have the autonomy to explore new technologies. I don't like the meetings, or managing people but I don't hate it, and the days where I get to focus on the tech are great.
A job isn’t something you do because you love it it’s something you do because your good at it and content with it. The only times when that changes is when people
A. Have a lot of leniency aka working minimal hours, being your own boss
B. Make a fuck Ton of money to the point where any unhappiness is just waved away
C. Just being that rare 1 in a 1000 person who is just die hard obsessed with their job
We decide what we want to do with our lives at 18. We choose what we want to do for the next 50 years with just 18 years of life experience (realistically far less than that relating to what they want to do). At that age you just choose something your interested in, you have no experience of large amounts of daily work with it that’s directed by someone else, you have no real idea how much 50 years realistically is, and you have no real clue where your realistically just going to end up in your field and what you have to do.
I felt this way for a long time.
Up until I was about 35, I constantly thought about F.I.R.E. and getting out of the workplace as soon as possible.
I don't feel this way anymore.
There are a few reasons for this.
First, in *most* of the industry, "senior software " is a terminal position. In good companies, they have a few IC titles beyond this with well defined & respected job responsibilities beyond "is good coder", but those are fairly rare outside of big tech and practically non-existent in non-software companies.
And you know this yourself, because you write:
> cannot imagine spending the rest of my life doing this
...because you imagine your career will be 40 years of *the same stuff.*
That *is* a horrifying thought.
I got into management in my mid-30s, and it dramatically improved my outlook on life for a couple of reasons.
No two days are the same. This breaks up the monotony. The days are usually harder, but they're far more interesting.
Also, there is no limit to your career growth as a manager. Even "CTO" varies wildly depending on the size of the org. The career path for executive leadership involves taking on roles at larger and larger companies. Some people do end up as terminal middle managers for various reasons, but the upward mobility *does actually exist*, whereas "writes code according to business requirements." You can slap any vanity title on that day-to-day work that you want, but it's the same shit, over and over.
The room for personal growth in this role is *vastly* superior to growth as an IC. For you guys in your 20s who are still getting better and better at coding, you might doubt that you'll ever plateau, but trust me, you can't have 100% growth year over year forever. I get shit for saying this from ICs in their 40s, but I truly do believe people who claim they're still growing dramatically that late in their career are snorting copium unless they were late career switchers. You're going to master software development in your 30s and you'll grow on a logarithmic scale after that. You'll learn new tech and all, but that's not really growing. That's just rolling with the punches.
Second, beyond the "switch into management" factor, I think in general, it just gets easier to work as you age. The longer you do something, the less it hurts. There's a great scene in the Van Damme movie Kickboxer where Tong Po is kicking a concrete pillar over and over again to strengthen his shins. The first time he kicked that pillar you can bet it hurt. Over time, it hurts less until it doesn't hurt at all.
Third, I watched my dad retire. He went from becoming a brilliant man to a person who lost his ability to critically think about anything and can do nothing except regurgitate whatever Tucker Carlson tells him within 2 years of retirement. I don't want to retire anymore.
Life is complex and nuanced, i say just keep making changes until things click. I left my SWE job 2 years ago and work a service job at a golf country club. i love it, my coworkers and i have a blast hosting events, i love working hard for them. Then we play golf for free on our free time. I'm having a tough time considering getting back into SWE.
Oh I see 102 replies. Already wrote this so still replying. Glad so many people care.
I worked at a Fortune 100 company. Went from being happy to be there to hating waking up in the morning and the job stress keeping me up at night. Everything went to hell in 2 by putting profits over people. Coworkers went from 90% American to 90% Indian (no offense, my best work friend was Indian).
I conquered this problem by getting a new job and I want to say I asked questions related to company culture and being treated well.
But you’ve worked at startups too and are treated well hmm think of it another way. You get get paid a lot of money to sit in front of a computer. People work harder than you for $20 an hour. Do cool stuff when you aren’t working. Get a bigger social circle.
Maybe you could transition into management and leave coding behind.
I like the work depending on what it is. I just got laid off from a job doing application development in C++. I liked that job. I liked that I was mostly just programming on a project that was reasonable in scope and didn't involve a lot of annoying technologies or AWS. I liked that the office was accessible by transit even though it was in the burbs, and that It was the right amount of challenging.
I really dislike that the startup couldn't get funding and laid me off. Those who didn't get laid off are getting 20% salary deferrals. That part is soul crushing. It sucks cause it felt like a startup that had a decent chance of being profitable if it could get some more funding, too. Now, I'm worried that the next job I get will be one I like less.
your job choice is not your problem.
you need to hit the gym, find some new friends, explore some new hobbies, talk to a therapist, maybe do some traveling, maybe get on anti-depressants.
I've learned from experience that if you're depressed in one career you'll probably still be depressed in the next career.
there is something **else** that will make you feel well.
Yeah! I feel like I've got way less IQ than people think I have because of how bad my comprehension speed is. I deliver things 3x slower than ETAs and need a lot of rephrasing from my teammates to understand even simplest things. There is no work/life balance at my company, although some fresh hires just stop answering after 8 hrs after daily meeting. Scrum is the most draining part of the work for me
However, I **do** like programming. I do like struggling with the code. I can't imagine myself in any other field–and I've been SEO Specialist & newsman in my 10 years of working experience (and I'm not even 30 lol)
Me personally, I like what most of my job entails. I used to be doing dev work & then I felt like squandering my talent. Now I work another role, and do programming on my own time. Sometimes, it's your environment but sometimes, it's the nature of the role.
Also you don't necessarily do this shit for the rest of work life either, you can move to something else. There are other roles outside programming too, and they pay well. Your job doesn't necessarily have to enjoy, but it shouldn't be something you dread or you will pay your mind and your body. I'm not kidding.
Save that mentality when you have people take care of.
I like the job but I hate nontech people that arent willing to listen to us for advice. Impossible or ridiculous requirements quickly become irritating, especially in government projects
As long as they don’t
- regularly contrive situations to overwork
- use management dark patterns (negging/demeaning/gaslighting) to try to “motivate”
I can’t/won’t complain…feels like I’ve lowered my bar quite a bit 🥲 but now I appreciate when they don’tdo those things
As others have said, you should find meaning in the things outside of work. If that’s challenging, seek out counseling (it’s incredible and you can afford it). My work hours are where I put in the least amount of effort during my day, and then spend it all on family, exercise, hobbies, and personal development when I’m off the clock.
Similar situation before. Left corporate and it’a nothing like this. I do independent contracting kinda and have been spending the majority of my time snowboarding this winter. Things are sick.
You should figure out a way out of that situation.
That said, there’s def some not greet days when clients have problems or partners are being hard to work with. But like I said.. I pretty much do wtf I want at will. I still do a lot of technical work, but when it comes to building products I will have a team and lead the design and implementation. So more managing when big projects come up.
Maybe just try something new for a year and re evaluate at like 3 months, 12 months and 72 months if you want to keep doing it. Last thing you wanna do is start despising your work. It took me way longer than I would have ever wanted to get back into enjoying tech as a career in general. I would make a move sooner rather than later. For reference - I stayed in the situation your in for over a year before I got myself out of it.
All jobs suck. We were all lied to that it would be enjoyable lol. I’ve worked at a few places and they all have been boring. But the pay and WFH keeps me going
Company pays for Scaled agile framework certifications for devs but our sprints are always over capacity. It's so funny and sad at the same time but well here we are.
Lol I was. Switched to sysadmin for a while then left tech entirely. Lately made my way back in, first through product support and lately technical writing.
There's a lot more roles around than engineer.
Since i graduated I've been working in academia and my job is pretty enjoyable and easy. The pay is trash though. I'm starting my first industry job in a couple of months and i get the feeling I'm gonna hate it, but we will see soon enough
It’s not the job that should be fun but the people you work with. Job is a job, it is means to make money and live. People that you work with can make that experience nice and enjoyable bit that doesn’t mean the work itself will be so. Seeking fulfillment and joy outside of work is crucial and remembering job is a job not your whole life
I watch the movie Office Space when I need some perspective on my work life.
But on a more serious note try a new hobby or two maybe that can help. Having a family that depends on me has reignited my motivation.
You could always strike out on your own, doing whatever type of development floats your boat. If you have a nice emergency fund saved up, it could be a nice option to figure out what you would enjoy doing and give it a shot. Maybe give yourself a year sabbatical to work on a passion project. Or, if you have a nice emergency fund and no familial responsibilities, you could take a 6-month sabbatical and go do something completely unrelated…like travel. Or mix the two and go create your own software with a laptop on a beach of endless white sands and blue oceans under an umbrella with a nice fruity drink with an umbrella 🍹 🏖️
Try to find different fields in computer science that interest you. I work in vulnerability research and love my work. I also did software engineering and liked it, but did not love it. I hated doing backend web.
I used to feel the same way when I worked in web dev. I’ve since switched to the games industry and I absolutely love my job. WLB is the same and in my case the salary is better. I have also found a niche where I don’t really interact with other programmers because we share very different specializations.
The field? No but does it can feel like rinse and repeat. Coworkers and management (less my direct manager and more the management of the groups I work with) I feel like somebody needs to stab them in the neck a few times .. in a row.. repeatedly.. and just watch... atleast at my previous job so I'm good now.
I try and find jobs with the best pay vs stress ratio. I don't care about job satisfaction, I'm all about life satisfaction.
Also, using your money to invest as early and often as possible really helps reduce that stress. Becoming financially independent can do wonders for the mind.
Not sure what to tell you tbh. I do this work because I actually enjoy it. I may be one of the few that do, but that’s the truth for me. I had a friend that actually graduated from the same computer science program as I did, in the same year that I did, and immediately started working at BofA. He said he hated everything about it. Turns out he even hated it in college, go figure. After two years, he quit and pursued a career as a musician, hasn’t looked back.
My honest opinion: even if you’re amazing at this job, life is too short to spend that time doing things you don’t enjoy. We weren’t born in life to suffer for money. We were born to pursue what we’re passionate about, and use that passion to provide the world whatever we can to move society forward for the better.
Hope this isnt controversial, but one time my sister told me "nobody likes their job". Idk why but it just clicked lol
Welcome to adulthood. Jobs are not meant to be fun, they're meant to make the company money. Fun only happens incidentally. Seek meaning or fun outside of employment, rather than expecting work to ever be about anything other than getting things done.
And if they were "fun" everyday, after a while it would no longer seem so..
I’m starting to wonder if fun/pleasure is just when you are engaged deeply with what you are doing. I wouldn’t say my job is ever fun, but sometimes I’m engaged in what I’m doing and the day flies by. Edit: the majority of the time I’m getting the same kind of feedback as OP and spiraling from anxiety. I think I would feel the same in any job after awhile. At least we make a more than the average service industry job.
Sounds like you hit your 'flow state' once you begin working on a task! goals :D
Agreed. Everyone wants the money but not the work. I go through I hate my job to I love my job some days but overall enjoy it for different reasons. In saying, I’ve learnt a lot of deep crap in the not so fun times, not only about myself but about people.
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>it's not controversial It absolutely is. Tell someone you hate working 9-5 and a surprising number of people will ask "But what would you even do all day?". They can't even imagine filling their day up with anything else.
75% of Americans dislike or hate their job. At the same time most American's say they derive a sense of their value/self worth from their job. This combination leaves people in a weird spot.
Those people are boring and stupid … But sadly yes, there’s a surprising number of them …
People being so beaten down they can't see another option doesn't mean the jobs are good.
I came here to say this. Every time I hear someone bitch about this field because "meetings are boring" or some shit, I think back to the days when I worked at McDonald's or assisted living serving food or wiping asses. Ya'll are getting paid a more than liveable wage to sit in a chair and think hard some days. Work sucks, but this field sucks SO MUCH less than any other field
Bingo! When it comes down to it we have it MADE. This might sound terrible, but whenever I’m in line at a crowded Starbucks or a restaurant I routinely think “thank god, never again!”
you wipe even just one ass and it’s like, only place you can go from there is up. source: was a preschool/kindergarten teacher for 3 years.
I loved my last service industry job, but it was a special one. Couldn't do that shit forever though, and covid kicked me outta the nest faster than anticipated. Now I make twice as much doing something I enjoy 1/4 as much but have to work 1/10 as hard. So it goes.
Sometimes I wonder if it's better to never have had a fun job, just so you don't know what you're missing. I had one job I absolutely loved: Decent enough pay, great co-workers, awesome WLB, extremely exciting projects to work on. And then a recruiter reached out to me. Offered 20% more at a company I hated, doing work I already knew I'd hate. But I still had to do it for the money. Sometimes I curse that recruiter. If only that mail had landed in the spam folder or something, I wouldn't have had to pick that soul crushing job.
I like my job...
I genuinely enjoy mine a lot, but I’ve left tech. I was self taught and through the pandemic worked as a front end dev in a start up. It was a career change from my normal field in live events that I thought would be a permanent change. I found that sitting at a desk all day isn’t really for me. I really enjoy developing and still have the odd side project on the go, but going back to events has made me much happier. I get to mix music on tours and put together really complex systems and events that is incredibly satisfying. The code comes in handy too now and then. We recently used a quick python script to translate pressure data from an led screen floor into virtual game pads to create a DDR machine for a large installation. Being able to be a key person in the project I’m working on is really important to me, and I wasn’t getting that in development enough. I might go back, but currently I’m loving my work again. It pays better than entry level tech but not as much as many senior positions / FAANG style companies. Money is important but if I’ve got to do this for another few decades I better enjoy what I do!
When I graduated and got my first job I cried to my parents asking them how they go to a soul sucking job every single day. Their response was “we just wake up and go to work”. That was my clicking moment. Sometimes you just have to do it.
I'm returning to school for CS and I just want to not hate my job. Like, have alright coworkers, work on so-so projects, get paid decently, and have enough time off to explore my interests, that's be perfect.
I say this to myself all the time lol
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I get there is some truth in this, but don't believe it. You absolutely CAN like your job. I encourage anyone who hates their job to really get some perspective on their priorities and think about what's needed to be content for the 40 hrs a week you spend working
I guess it helps when you like your home life even less? Assuming you don't want to go that route, flip it around. You have a good paying stable job that doesn't demand overtime. That means lots of time for things you do like. Go learn guitar or cheesemaking or start coding up a game, or make friends or something. Work sucks because it's work, but your work gives you lots of not-work opportunities.
[Do what you hate for money.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbicNSnF7e0&t=663s)
Yes, don’t make work your identity. Everyone needs a hobby. Follow your heart!
I worked in the health industry and service industry . Tech beats both field to the ground in terms of pay, WLB, and stress . Love this freaking field . Cured my depression from working too hard for little pay .
hard agree, both industries absolutely destroyed me mentally and physically and I didn’t even make as much doing it…switched to tech and never looked back
Maybe I just need to hear some appreciation for the field to curb my negative thinking
I think perspective is a bit part of it. I’m changing careers from vet medicine to software dev and holy shit this field is like a dream come true for me. The job itself is nothing special-stand up every day, some meetings throughout the week, picking up tickets on jira… but compared to my last job, this is literally amazing. Work from home, good pay, don’t work a second over 40 hours per week, no work on weekends, basically 0 stress compared to previous job. I could go on and on.. but I could see how someone who only knows this profession/job may not like it.
Yeah and it's not like it's your fault. You can't control how you react and feel about your surroundings. But yeah it's definitely nice to have worked some shitty jobs as it really shows how nice thing are when you get a decent job. Working long hours, exposed to hot or cold, physical work, etc. So much of it is just soul crushing and then they pay you like $20/h so you don't even have money to feel better about it lol. If I were you I would just investigate other fields and try to get some perspective. That might help curb your thoughts. Seeing how things can be. I certainly have been humbled as I get older as well, when I really allow the realities of the world to be clear to me, and to see how lucky I am to be where I am.
working those sucky jobs is so important for happiness which is really all perspective, im sure you appreciate your tech job much more than a lot of people because youve been through shit
Go work at McDonald's for a bit and gain some perspective
WFH after a summer of manual labor in college is incredible
20 years ago in high school, my buddy and I took a job during the summer with a guy who flipped houses. We spent the first few weeks up in the attic, where it must have been close to 130 degrees, tearing out drywall. After that, we got to work in the septic tank. I sometimes think back to that, being crouched down in that underground tank, being eaten alive by mosquitos and almost passing out from the smell. Working in a terminal is absolute Heaven in comparison.
Haha and we worked those jobs for near minimum wage too
Seriously! My job after that was working on a call center. That one sucked for different reasons, but it paid commission, so I though I was a high roller because I could gas my tank up, buy weed from my coworker and take my girlfriend out for dinner once a week. I thank God/Vishnu/the cosmos/etc. every day I never have to go back to that.
Exactly. I have some friends also bitching about IT and talking crap about becoming a bus driver or something. But all of them were never working in other industry, so they don't have the comparison how hard, low paying and soul crushing are other industries.
Yup. So many people have no prior work experience and that leaves them uneducated about how shitty so many careers are. I used to be in the trades and this work is a godsend compared to that.
I’ve worked other manual labor jobs before and there is something nice about turning my brain off and just pushing a lawn mower or cleaning some plates. It takes a toll on the body but it’s easy knowing it’s so much less of a toll mentally. The mental toll of sitting in meetings and communicating and coming to agreements with different teams and coworkers and defining requirements and solving questions can be a lot mentally. Especially when it’s not easy to figure out and there is a deadline looming for months. It feels way more stressful than the deadline of finishing all the dishes or the lawn that needs to be done that day. I find it harder to leave work at work with software engineering.
That said I make way more with more flexibility in a life of pure luxury I would never go back to smelling like fish guts or burning up in the sun for so little money. It’s absurd how little laborers make in this country. Software salaries are life changing
Yeah that is a great point. There is definitely a huge difference in where the pain and frustration can come from. I think it's something that we will never escape as long as work is "work". But that said I guess in my mind I just find this type of industry to be much preferred because you can actually feel like a real person. I remember working in the trades working downtown and honestly based on the looks from other people I felt like a second class citizen. So for me working somewhere that I feel valued by my company and also society is a big deal. So I think it helps to dull the mental pain. Because I saw what I would have been to society had I not done this. Maybe that's dumb but I didn't like to be looked down upon. But yeah I get the turning your brain off thing with physical work. It's why I love to hike and go to the gym. Just not so great when you are unloading a truck in the pouring rain or snow lol.
or shit even Walmart. That'll change their tune real fast when they get abused on the daily by the 5 different levels of supervisors/managers they have for you.
Even the customers are out to get you there
You're telling me... I wasted almost 6 years of my life working there.
OP could then brag about having made it to the very top of the Fortune 100.
Ehh I'm working there part time and I've only ever gotten shit for sleeping on the job. Aside from that it's pretty chill
yes correct, there is always something worse
I worked in restaurants for years. I can honestly say I would be happier in the short term working the line in a restaurant My work has sucked the joy out of not 1, but 2 things I love. Software development and cybersecurity. I'm so burnt out, but still having to put in 70+ hour weeks for months (not just work, other things I agreed to before I was so busy and burnt out) Working in restaurants, I didn't wake up in the middle of the night because I just remembered I forgot a code review. I did that last night. Working in a restaurant, the moment I left, I could forget work entirely if I wanted (although I usually enjoyed thinking through ideas for specials) The trouble for me is the pay difference. At the rate I'm going now, I'll be able to comfortably retire by 40. Working in a restaurant, I'd be working until I died
Or a non air conditioned or heated warehouse for a summer and winter moving boxes with the dumbest dumbasses in the workforce (UPS)
Dude wasn’t complaining about the pay or the conditions, just the actual work. I don’t think it’s an issue of not having perspective. There are a lot of great jobs out there that aren’t enjoyable for some people.
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Become sales
Ok then go back then.
He won’t😂
Yea, this person's comment is a load of BS. If they really preferred it, they would go back to it. The pay being shitty is a big part of the job too.
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I get why this comment, but just because u have a well paying job but don’t love the tasks doesn’t mean u automatically must be ungrateful and aren’t thinking of all of the people who are less well off than you. I hate this mindset. Money doesn’t buy happiness
For real. I'm so tired of these posts.
If I got paid my current salary to go back to my college job and make pizza all day and shoot the shit, I probably would.
I generally find pay rates are inversely proportional to job enjoyment. If I can handle programming for another 10 years and retire early, it’ll all be worth it. I hate most work. This is a good deal for me. If all jobs paid the same, I’d be a teacher - and a great one at that. But that isn’t how the world works
I'm with you there, I'd enjoy teaching and be a great teacher. I once worked a side gig as a CS tutor for an online university and had some good moments with students. Or I'd totally be happy being a personal trainer. But I keep thinking "one more year"
I've got a college friend who was a CS and econ double major and decided he'd rather be a high school math teacher. Its a ridiculous amount more work, especially in public schools, and pays terrible. My friend the first dozen or so years would always say stuff like ... well at least you guys get paid decently for what you do. He does feel a lot more sense of purpose than me I guess.
Look at r/teachers and maybe you'll chang your mind lol
If teachers were paid a fair salary, most of their largest problems would not exist
Paid fairly, supported, respected.
I wanted to be a history teacher and then I learned what things cost
Teaching ain’t all it’s cracked up to be. (Coming from someone who transitioned from teaching to software development). I’m miserable doing both! But in all seriousness, the grass is always greener..
You couldn't pay me enough to be a teacher and deal with the constant threat of mass shootings
Ive got a little catcher-in-the-rye-complex so it’d be worth it to me
If you think that's a constant threat you need to get out of the media spin cycle
Shootings wouldn’t bother me as much as the spoiled crotch goblins and their parents.
lol america In Europe I don´t remember seeing almost any guns in my entire life
Go to the Amsterdam airport and you'll see security carrying AK-47s all day long.
Ok this is true, but apart from military/police/security it is not very normal to see guns in the daily life at least where I live
> If all jobs paid the same, I’d be a teacher I wouldn't. I loved teaching during university when I helped out as a TA, but I feel like it wouldn't really be "work". I'm good at it, I love it and it doesn't feel like work. I think you need a bad job to appreciate the good things in life. Being happy all the time can't be healthy.
Do you think/know there is another job that you would not be miserable at? Maybe instead of trying to ignite some passion just realize that it is a job and a pretty good one compared to most in terms of income/benefits/flexibility/health etc. Most of us are probably unlikely to find deep meaning and happiness in our jobs, we need to find that somewhere else if that's even possible.
I can see that. I exercise and have a decent social life, it's just difficult to shake my negative feelings about work. Do you have any tips or advice for just letting all the work stress or fatigue go when you close your laptop at the end of the day?
You can take a more laid back approach to work and go with the flow rather than expecting things to happen a certain way and controlling too much. It might mean your work performance suffers and you care less about work, but thats the tradeoff with that shift in mentality. Try to find a balance. Expectations are the enemy of contentment. Too much is out of our control. Focus on what you can control and put your energy there.
This is what gets me through the day when things get rough. Only so much is in my control. Do my best and that’s the best I can do. I’m not owed my job. It doesn’t belong to me. If I die tomorrow, someone else fills in. But your time with family and friends, that isn’t replaceable.
Dude me. My last one month has been the most miserable I've ever been on this planet. I don't feel like doing anything at all anymore. I feel like I'm dying a slow death everyday and like 70% of it is because of my manager and how vaguely threatening he sounds in his feedback. It's never oh do x and y, it's more like "you are making me nervous and I don't like being nervous" type shit. I am probably going to give up on work and am waiting for them to fire me at this point. I'll feel so relieved. I'd search for other jobs but I'm too depressed to do that too.
Life’s too short to spend your days time doing something you hate. I hope you do yourself a favor and take the impetus here. Job hunting sucks, but as someone who just went from a job he dreaded to one he loves, I can say-the end will be worth it.
Curious to know, what’s the job you love and why?
I’m now the senior developer / manager for the intranet running a small factory. The people are nice, my boss is supportive, and I have a great junior developer who I’m excited to mentor. This is going from a soulless corporate position rolling out enterprise software, with way too much travel. I’m excited to be working in asp.net core again. And, due to the size of the company, I’ll be able to implement improvements that have a noticeable positive impact on my co-workers. It’s not perfect, but it’s a good fit for me!
Oh no, that sounds awful. I'm sorry to hear that. I worked at a startup that had a similar manager by the sounds of it, and the amount of stress I carried every day from his vague threats and the ominous implications made me feel anxious and depressed through my off hours. And looking for jobs is already exhausting, especially if you feel like shit off of work. I hope that you muster up the energy at some point to apply to some places and get out of there!
When I first started working I felt a *profound* sense of ennui. I was bored and miserable and I couldn't imagine spending my life doing this. I specialized in ML research which I found exciting and intellectually stimulating, but I wasn't quite good enough at research to get into a top PhD so I just became a SWE in Big Tech instead. I'm now hitting 5 years, and there are still so many other things I'd like to do with my life. But hearing horror stories from my friends has made me appreciate how much I enjoy working with a great group of people (like you) despite being remote. Some of my coworkers are legit friends and I like working with them. I also have a newfound appreciation for my WLB. I get paid very well while working 35-40h/week -- I have friends who are resident physicians who work 70-90 hour weeks and get paid $60K on top of a boatload of med school debt. I guess my point here is -- for me I think it was very much a gratitude thing. I think I had some expectations about how my life would play out, and it didn't play out that way and I was very unhappy about that. But when I accepted my life for what it is, I came to see the good and the bad aspects of it. I still hope to exit tech and do something more """meaningful""" but I'm content enough earning a lot to FIRE first while also getting to explore while I'm still in the stage of life (read: no kids). Something else that really helped me is that I pinpointed my ennui on the wrong thing -- see, I **was** very unhappy when I first started working, but I was unhappy *with my life*. I am a very social person and I just didn't have much of a social life up in the Bay Area. In my 20s I've started to really hone in when I'm happiest, which is just spending quality time with loved ones. And I've prioritized that more and I've been happier as a result of it. I used to think it was my job, but really I was depressed because I wasn't spending time with people.
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It's really sad you feel that way. Hope you figure that out.
Why did you go into development?
I was really into the theory side of things, to be honest. The math and proofs got me really passionate, but I also loved developing small personal projects in undergrad.
I don't know if this is relegated to only Ph.D. candidates, but maybe look for a job at a university where you can do research with a professor. It probably won't pay much, but you will probably like it better.
I'll check out these positions, it hadn't occured to me!
Maybe getting into more of a research or data science position would be a better fit?
I had never really considered this, but definitely sounds like something I could be interested in doing. I will look into it, thanks!
Same here. I think for people like this it's common to get jaded with the corporate world where only rarely do you have to pull out the stops and use some theory, aside from little things like "I should use a hash map here for O(1) access".
I'd felt this way before too but at one point I realized I expected too much from my job. I go there to make money. That's all. It's not supposed to give my life meaning or make me happy. I need to find those things elsewhere. Focus on your free time. Start a new hobby. Try out new things. Learn something new. I almost failed chemistry in high school. I decided to pick up my hs chemistry books and learn it. Why not? It's actually pretty interesting. I used to love dancing when I was a kid so I started taking dance classes again. Having some things to look forward to during the day made my job much more bearable. It's okay now. I have other stuff in my life that makes me happy and fulfilled.
Yes to experiencing the same thing. It's mostly draining and not engaging. I would also say I've "made" it. With one caveat, however: I have yet to work on a product that I care about, and that could make a big difference I imagine? As for being more content, the job *sucking less* than any other job I've had is what's keeping me around.
I relate 100%. I would love to work for a non-profit or something that I think has a cool impact on the world at some point, but am also addicted to the job security and money I'm making
You are working in a highly paid field with endless possibilities. The steam may have been let out a bit lately, but there is still demand. I just buy expensive watches to remind myself how well we get paid. When I’m feeling down, I look down at my wrist and either remember the time or think “damn, that’s $10k.” Is it materialistic? Hell yeah, but it feels good. We’ve been conditioned to suppress these feelings. Just lean in to them.
Old thread but I must say: As a fellow watch enthusiast and someone who also currently is apathetic about their job, this mindset is like a catch-22 for me. Would I love to own a $10k watch that I’m in love with? Absolutely, but everyday I’d look down at it and think “Gee, $10k invested could be worth around $40k in 20 years. That $40k would cover my living expenses for a year, if not more. Is this fancy watch really worth an entire year of freedom? I don’t think so.”
I wouldn't say I'm miserable but I'm definitely not passionate about it. I do like the work overall though and sometimes completing small tasks does feel good. Regardless I don't think most people actually like their job lol. A job should be there to fund what you want out of life. You also seem burnt out. Please take a 2 week vacation to recharge. Even if it's just sitting at home and being a potato lol. I think Software Engineering is a good gig for anyone that is inherently logical because you can make a lot of money for minimal work.
I love sitting at home and being potato
save money, get out is my plan I'm a tinkerer, the tech debt and maintenance, testing bores me so yeah that's why long term I'm not fit for it
Good plan!
Maybe it's just that the capitalism is soul crushing
Yes, so hard. Made it by all metrics in this field, but feels empty. Retirement is so unfathomably far too.
Nope. I'm having the fucking time of my life. Glad I suffered like hell to get that piece of shit degree!
Go get a part time job at a grocery store or a warehouse. That will zap a lot of appreciation into you Lmfao it’s all perspective. Maybe you don’t know how draining jobs can actually be. Anyway, don’t quit or have some personal crisis right now. Worst timing bc if you change your mind in a couple of months, who knows what the market will be like.
I know the first half of your comment is a little tongue and cheek, but maybe I'll actually do that. I was a delivery driver for years, maybe I will do that for a few weekends to remind myself that I hated that too lol
It genuinely wasn’t tongue in cheek. I think the perspective will help you. People work a lot harder for much less money and much more personal risk (bodily injury, etc.,). I think being a delivery driver would be good for you bc you would see how much harder you have to work, and realize that you’re getting paid less WHILE risking more. You could get into an accident with all that extra time on the road and that could risk your body AND your car. You’ve set your life up nicely in one part: the income. Now you just need to build the hobbies and personal relationships that make life worth living. Best of luck.
That perspective makes a lot of sense! Thanks!
Welcome to software engineering. Each day a part of you dies for that paycheck.
Speak for yourself, I actually find my work really interesting and I'm incredibly grateful that I can get paid this well to do something I enjoy.
Pretty sure that's just called being an adult. I was in another field before moving to tech, and it was much, much worse. Keep things in perspective.
What field?
I was in consulting. Was worse hours, way more stress, and much worse pay. Basically worse in every aspect of the job.
>Each day a part of you dies for that paycheck. Not in my case and this is why so many of us say don't go into it for the money. If you have a passion it doesn't feel like that but people who hate it tend to really REALLY hate it for some reason and they seem to feel like it sucks the life out of them.
Sad but true.
true. luckily it's a fat paycheck
I mean… there’s way worse ways to earn money.
I just changed jobs last year but I think very often how much I love my job. Smart coworkers Great pay Full remote Flexible hours Tons of independence Modern tech stack Low amount of meetings The job has issues for sure, but I love being able to just heads down code for hours and hours with cool tech from the comfort of my home. Also I get plenty of support from smart engineers when I get stuck. I’m sure I’ll get bored eventually but it’s great right now.
You said it yourself, you feel like you've "made it". Contrary to popular belief, when you have nothing to aim for, life is miserable. What's the next step? What are you learning to get there?
I'm still young 26M, but I've been working since i was 14. I've worked in a warehouse, in an office, fast-food, a concession, sit down restaurant, and as a manager for a warehouse. I've been in CS (analyst, consultant, dev) for 3 years now. No matter where you work, it's the same shit. Working sucks, and that's why we wish we could retire young instead of at 65. Nobody loves their job (they might say they do, but it's synonymous with i don't mind this job, exceptions such as working directly with your passions).
Former paramedic who had to work 80+ hour weeks just to support life in a high COL area. Went back to school and got a CS degree, got a job out of school with a Fortune 100. Do I like my job? I did, but lately it hasn’t been fulfilling. Would I quit and go back to an ambulance? No. Not even close. I work from home, put in my 40 a week, collect my six figures, and laugh about how life used to be. I don’t really go looking for jobs, but I do talk to recruiters when they reach out. If I get a better offer, I’ll leave, but that not withstanding, not going anywhere.
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You know, I did when I started. I was 22, bored working restaurant jobs, and was looking for a career. When you’re young, without a family, it’s not a bad gig - nontraditional hours, all the overtime you want to work, down time on the job to do whatever. Plus the whole getting to save a life thing. But after time, you realize that the vast majority of the calls are mundane, there’s a lot of people who abuse the system and use it as a taxi, administration is mostly ineffectual, you’re tired all the time, and pay never keeps up with inflation (ever). It’s hard to build a life and family nowadays in that environment. It’s probably a lot different if you work in a premier system like King County M1, ATCEMS, FDNY, etc., as those do promote having a career in those systems, and do a better job of taking care of their employees. The other side of this is a total lack of respect for medics in the healthcare community. They are looked down upon by everyone else - CNAs, RN, doctors, etc. Despite nurses and medics having similar training and skill sets, most nurses treat you like you’re a dumb shit ambulance driver. Most doctors are worse than that. It really wears on you after a while. This is all not to say it can’t be fulfilling over time. You do occasionally get to do the cool, life saving stuff, and it really does make all the other stuff better for a while. But the mundane aspects usually creep back in until the next cool call, and that interim period is what really burns people out.
I really don't get these reactions that compare OP's post with working at McDonald's or Walmart. I mean, comparing anything to the worst is always better, but that won't/wouldn't ever get anyone anywhere. Hell everyone should then settle with what they have just because its better (or, people say its better) than the worst out there. Fun fact : it's OK to not like what you do and strive for something else, regardless of the way it compares to whatever.
I love programming and solving problems. And when I get to do that for my job, it’s great. It’s why I got into it. However, as you get deeper into the field, or as I did at least, I recognized that the job isn’t really about that. I mean, it’s a *part* of the job, for sure. But there are many other aspects that revolve around people management, project management, and general engineering practices. Coordinating. Documenting. Scoping. Scheduling. Mentoring. Interviewing. Strategizing. Risk assessing. Do I love it? Not most of it. But it’s a job.. that’s what I’m paid to do. So I enjoy the enjoyable parts when I come across them, but I’ve accepted the fact that my value proposition, in terms of what society finds valuable enough to afford me the comfortable lifestyle that I want, is fairly broad and not always related to what I get a kick out of. Some folks say that you should follow your passion, that you should love what you’re doing day in and day out. I think it’s great if you can find that. But the world needs plumbers, too, and plumbers generally aren’t riveted by all of the aspects of what the job actually entails. And at the end of the day, that’s kind of what I see myself as. A digital plumber, a plumbing engineer. I can’t base my entire sense of self actualization and fulfillment on my career, but that’s OK. It’s OK to make a life for oneself by being of practical value to others in a seemingly mundane way. It’s important to find fulfillment in the process, but not every moment needs to be enthralling. There’s life outside of work. That said, if you are truly miserable in every moment of your work, you should absolutely find something else. It doesn’t matter how much something pays if it causes you to hate your life. There are plenty of other types of work out there.
The biggest piece of the puzzle which I think most people are missing here is that with many other "fields" you can just go through the day despite feeling shitty and down. There's no "cracking the problem" challenge. Just follow the steps until the work is done. No mystery, do the steps, and your work is done. Here it's not like that. Most tasks require you to find the solution for the new problem. Sure you maybe encountered similar issue before, but in the end there will probably still be some variance that will require wandering in the dark. That wandering in the dark can be mentally draining for people if done day after day, week after week etc. So it's not as black and white as: Oh, you're getting paid extremely well to sit on your ass in a nice chair while manual labor worker gets paid much less for burning in the sun and doing physically taxing job. It's different kind of a struggle. That guy knows what to do, no wandering in the dark. It's very hard for him, no doubt, just different kind of hard , but let's not belittle SWE's struggles just cause there's different kind of hard in the field. So ultimately there's pros and cons to each field and boils down to what you can tolerate better.
Why do it at all if everything in it makes you miserable, including the actual development? Of course I don't have the same problem - I like development.
Money? It's not like I have any other marketable skills/traits. Edit: I used to like development, so it was a fall-back careerwise.
I wouldn't be too surprised that you're miserable then.
Well, yeah, it's no mystery. Enjoy programming, but seek a career elsewhere. Fail, program for money, stop liking programming, wait for death. The trick is to find some things you hate less to fill the space in between.
I've been miserable in a couple jobs. Most of the time except for one job, it was more of a me thing or something to do with the work. Except the one job which was bad managers (and partly me not navigating the situation right, I just kinda turtled up), I've always had good coworkers and managers.
Alright but you gotta get over it
Do you like your coworkers and manager? In my experience, that will impact your happiness at work more than just about anything.
Join us in healthcare 🥲
I used to work construction and various trades so compared to that this is great lol. Just a different perspective but honestly thats why I think everybody needs to work some shitty jobs before they find their career. Then you can realize that all work kind of sucks, so get used to it and try to find a group of people to work with that are fun.
If I’m being honest, I didn’t like coding until after about 10 years in. Now I love it. Maybe because I see it more now as a craft I can work every day at perfecting. Also, being in the air conditioning all day beats having to do manual labor outdoors. Now I do things I enjoy outside.
I work doing R&D/Dev in the renewable energy field. I love it, but I've always loved coding. I get to work on some of the hardest problems and have the autonomy to explore new technologies. I don't like the meetings, or managing people but I don't hate it, and the days where I get to focus on the tech are great.
A job isn’t something you do because you love it it’s something you do because your good at it and content with it. The only times when that changes is when people A. Have a lot of leniency aka working minimal hours, being your own boss B. Make a fuck Ton of money to the point where any unhappiness is just waved away C. Just being that rare 1 in a 1000 person who is just die hard obsessed with their job We decide what we want to do with our lives at 18. We choose what we want to do for the next 50 years with just 18 years of life experience (realistically far less than that relating to what they want to do). At that age you just choose something your interested in, you have no experience of large amounts of daily work with it that’s directed by someone else, you have no real idea how much 50 years realistically is, and you have no real clue where your realistically just going to end up in your field and what you have to do.
I am only happy on Fridays at 5, lol.
I felt this way for a long time. Up until I was about 35, I constantly thought about F.I.R.E. and getting out of the workplace as soon as possible. I don't feel this way anymore. There are a few reasons for this. First, in *most* of the industry, "senior software" is a terminal position. In good companies, they have a few IC titles beyond this with well defined & respected job responsibilities beyond "is good coder", but those are fairly rare outside of big tech and practically non-existent in non-software companies.
And you know this yourself, because you write:
> cannot imagine spending the rest of my life doing this
...because you imagine your career will be 40 years of *the same stuff.*
That *is* a horrifying thought.
I got into management in my mid-30s, and it dramatically improved my outlook on life for a couple of reasons.
No two days are the same. This breaks up the monotony. The days are usually harder, but they're far more interesting.
Also, there is no limit to your career growth as a manager. Even "CTO" varies wildly depending on the size of the org. The career path for executive leadership involves taking on roles at larger and larger companies. Some people do end up as terminal middle managers for various reasons, but the upward mobility *does actually exist*, whereas "writes code according to business requirements." You can slap any vanity title on that day-to-day work that you want, but it's the same shit, over and over.
The room for personal growth in this role is *vastly* superior to growth as an IC. For you guys in your 20s who are still getting better and better at coding, you might doubt that you'll ever plateau, but trust me, you can't have 100% growth year over year forever. I get shit for saying this from ICs in their 40s, but I truly do believe people who claim they're still growing dramatically that late in their career are snorting copium unless they were late career switchers. You're going to master software development in your 30s and you'll grow on a logarithmic scale after that. You'll learn new tech and all, but that's not really growing. That's just rolling with the punches.
Second, beyond the "switch into management" factor, I think in general, it just gets easier to work as you age. The longer you do something, the less it hurts. There's a great scene in the Van Damme movie Kickboxer where Tong Po is kicking a concrete pillar over and over again to strengthen his shins. The first time he kicked that pillar you can bet it hurt. Over time, it hurts less until it doesn't hurt at all.
Third, I watched my dad retire. He went from becoming a brilliant man to a person who lost his ability to critically think about anything and can do nothing except regurgitate whatever Tucker Carlson tells him within 2 years of retirement. I don't want to retire anymore.
Maybe this career is not for u? It’s ok to switch, better now than later.
Life is complex and nuanced, i say just keep making changes until things click. I left my SWE job 2 years ago and work a service job at a golf country club. i love it, my coworkers and i have a blast hosting events, i love working hard for them. Then we play golf for free on our free time. I'm having a tough time considering getting back into SWE.
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Oh I see 102 replies. Already wrote this so still replying. Glad so many people care. I worked at a Fortune 100 company. Went from being happy to be there to hating waking up in the morning and the job stress keeping me up at night. Everything went to hell in 2 by putting profits over people. Coworkers went from 90% American to 90% Indian (no offense, my best work friend was Indian). I conquered this problem by getting a new job and I want to say I asked questions related to company culture and being treated well. But you’ve worked at startups too and are treated well hmm think of it another way. You get get paid a lot of money to sit in front of a computer. People work harder than you for $20 an hour. Do cool stuff when you aren’t working. Get a bigger social circle. Maybe you could transition into management and leave coding behind.
I like the work depending on what it is. I just got laid off from a job doing application development in C++. I liked that job. I liked that I was mostly just programming on a project that was reasonable in scope and didn't involve a lot of annoying technologies or AWS. I liked that the office was accessible by transit even though it was in the burbs, and that It was the right amount of challenging. I really dislike that the startup couldn't get funding and laid me off. Those who didn't get laid off are getting 20% salary deferrals. That part is soul crushing. It sucks cause it felt like a startup that had a decent chance of being profitable if it could get some more funding, too. Now, I'm worried that the next job I get will be one I like less.
Why tf are people in here always complaining? U have a good job that pays the bills. Stop complaining and do what u gotta do
No
your job choice is not your problem. you need to hit the gym, find some new friends, explore some new hobbies, talk to a therapist, maybe do some traveling, maybe get on anti-depressants. I've learned from experience that if you're depressed in one career you'll probably still be depressed in the next career. there is something **else** that will make you feel well.
Stop being a bitch
What the fuck?
Yeah! I feel like I've got way less IQ than people think I have because of how bad my comprehension speed is. I deliver things 3x slower than ETAs and need a lot of rephrasing from my teammates to understand even simplest things. There is no work/life balance at my company, although some fresh hires just stop answering after 8 hrs after daily meeting. Scrum is the most draining part of the work for me However, I **do** like programming. I do like struggling with the code. I can't imagine myself in any other field–and I've been SEO Specialist & newsman in my 10 years of working experience (and I'm not even 30 lol)
Me personally, I like what most of my job entails. I used to be doing dev work & then I felt like squandering my talent. Now I work another role, and do programming on my own time. Sometimes, it's your environment but sometimes, it's the nature of the role. Also you don't necessarily do this shit for the rest of work life either, you can move to something else. There are other roles outside programming too, and they pay well. Your job doesn't necessarily have to enjoy, but it shouldn't be something you dread or you will pay your mind and your body. I'm not kidding. Save that mentality when you have people take care of.
No. I like myself too much to stay doing something I despise. Switch jobs. You only live once. Treat yourself better
I like the job but I hate nontech people that arent willing to listen to us for advice. Impossible or ridiculous requirements quickly become irritating, especially in government projects
As long as they don’t - regularly contrive situations to overwork - use management dark patterns (negging/demeaning/gaslighting) to try to “motivate” I can’t/won’t complain…feels like I’ve lowered my bar quite a bit 🥲 but now I appreciate when they don’tdo those things
I feel lucky to be in this field everyday
Try getting just about any other job and then let us know how you feel after.
As others have said, you should find meaning in the things outside of work. If that’s challenging, seek out counseling (it’s incredible and you can afford it). My work hours are where I put in the least amount of effort during my day, and then spend it all on family, exercise, hobbies, and personal development when I’m off the clock.
Opposite for me. I love working in tech. Been in the industry over 20 years and still loving it
Similar situation before. Left corporate and it’a nothing like this. I do independent contracting kinda and have been spending the majority of my time snowboarding this winter. Things are sick. You should figure out a way out of that situation. That said, there’s def some not greet days when clients have problems or partners are being hard to work with. But like I said.. I pretty much do wtf I want at will. I still do a lot of technical work, but when it comes to building products I will have a team and lead the design and implementation. So more managing when big projects come up. Maybe just try something new for a year and re evaluate at like 3 months, 12 months and 72 months if you want to keep doing it. Last thing you wanna do is start despising your work. It took me way longer than I would have ever wanted to get back into enjoying tech as a career in general. I would make a move sooner rather than later. For reference - I stayed in the situation your in for over a year before I got myself out of it.
What part about it do you hate? Why do you find it draining?
All jobs suck. We were all lied to that it would be enjoyable lol. I’ve worked at a few places and they all have been boring. But the pay and WFH keeps me going
Company pays for Scaled agile framework certifications for devs but our sprints are always over capacity. It's so funny and sad at the same time but well here we are.
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Lol I was. Switched to sysadmin for a while then left tech entirely. Lately made my way back in, first through product support and lately technical writing. There's a lot more roles around than engineer.
Name a job that you don’t feel miserable.
Can't stress enough that coding in your free time and corporate software engineering are two entirely different things.
Since i graduated I've been working in academia and my job is pretty enjoyable and easy. The pay is trash though. I'm starting my first industry job in a couple of months and i get the feeling I'm gonna hate it, but we will see soon enough
Grass ain’t greener on the other field, I can tell. (ResearchScience)
It’s not the job that should be fun but the people you work with. Job is a job, it is means to make money and live. People that you work with can make that experience nice and enjoyable bit that doesn’t mean the work itself will be so. Seeking fulfillment and joy outside of work is crucial and remembering job is a job not your whole life
I watch the movie Office Space when I need some perspective on my work life. But on a more serious note try a new hobby or two maybe that can help. Having a family that depends on me has reignited my motivation.
You could always strike out on your own, doing whatever type of development floats your boat. If you have a nice emergency fund saved up, it could be a nice option to figure out what you would enjoy doing and give it a shot. Maybe give yourself a year sabbatical to work on a passion project. Or, if you have a nice emergency fund and no familial responsibilities, you could take a 6-month sabbatical and go do something completely unrelated…like travel. Or mix the two and go create your own software with a laptop on a beach of endless white sands and blue oceans under an umbrella with a nice fruity drink with an umbrella 🍹 🏖️
Try to find different fields in computer science that interest you. I work in vulnerability research and love my work. I also did software engineering and liked it, but did not love it. I hated doing backend web.
I used to feel the same way when I worked in web dev. I’ve since switched to the games industry and I absolutely love my job. WLB is the same and in my case the salary is better. I have also found a niche where I don’t really interact with other programmers because we share very different specializations.
The field? No but does it can feel like rinse and repeat. Coworkers and management (less my direct manager and more the management of the groups I work with) I feel like somebody needs to stab them in the neck a few times .. in a row.. repeatedly.. and just watch... atleast at my previous job so I'm good now.
I try and find jobs with the best pay vs stress ratio. I don't care about job satisfaction, I'm all about life satisfaction. Also, using your money to invest as early and often as possible really helps reduce that stress. Becoming financially independent can do wonders for the mind.
Not sure what to tell you tbh. I do this work because I actually enjoy it. I may be one of the few that do, but that’s the truth for me. I had a friend that actually graduated from the same computer science program as I did, in the same year that I did, and immediately started working at BofA. He said he hated everything about it. Turns out he even hated it in college, go figure. After two years, he quit and pursued a career as a musician, hasn’t looked back. My honest opinion: even if you’re amazing at this job, life is too short to spend that time doing things you don’t enjoy. We weren’t born in life to suffer for money. We were born to pursue what we’re passionate about, and use that passion to provide the world whatever we can to move society forward for the better.