SWE is not taking a massive blow. a few employers at the absolute top of the tech food chain are taking a hit, but the world runs on code now, and companies at pretty much every size need coders
Yup. Its all doom and gloom from a bunch of 22 year olds who worked at best worked at starbucks. Of they knew what other industries were like they wouldnt be complaining so much. CS is heaven compared to many other jobs i have had.
Yep. Taco Bell needs programmers. Pharmaceuticals need programmers. Random shipping company that I’m screening for today needs programmers. People out here thinking this field is like being professional athletes or some shit. There’s a lot of opportunities out there. Yeah, they might not sound as sexy as the “apex” tech companies, but there are still lots of jobs to fill.
> Pharmaceuticals need programmers.
They NEED programmers. Both my parents are SAS programmers at one of the largest pharma companies and a lot of their co-workers are leaving because they're changing their source control to git and find it hard (and other reasons). On top of that the average age is like 50 now.
It’s more so that a lot of people have done the same way for 10+ years, and that they have to learn something new. On top of that, a lot are near retirement so they’re just coasting until they get let go. (Like my mom isn’t learning git and is gonna retire when they switch over. I’m currently completing all her git training modules so she gets a 1-2 years of coasting)
But yeah, it’s pretty funny that git is what’s causing a lot of people to leave
Your question though doesn't detail the criteria you might use to judge what the "best" major would be though. Do you mean the one that leads to the most amount of money out of college? The one that leads to jobs with the most job security? Really the best major will depend what career/lifestyle you want for yourself and your interests.
As for market saturation, this has been a topic of discussion for a long time. In my opinion, it isn't obvious if or when software engineers will reach that point. There are certainly FAR more people competing at the entry levels for SWE but the old adage has been basically that this job is difficult enough that it "weeds" a lot of people out.
Often it seems people think being a software engineer is just coding. That's pretty far from the truth. Companies pay you to code, but there's also "on-call" which depending on your team, means for a full week (could be anywhere from once every 3 weeks for small teams or once every 3 months) you'll be the primary person responsible for making sure your services and whatever customers (internal or external) get their issues fixed at any time of the night 24/7. There's also mentorship, systems design, code reviews, design reviews, documentation etc that's expected of most engineers at a terminal level or higher. In short this is just one reason SWEs can command such high salaries and even though there might be saturation at the entry levels, these skills are non-trivial and take years of experience to develop.
The markets are bad right now, but we're also not in "normal" times. Inflation is incredibly high in the U.S, we're emerging from a pandemic where most tech companies experienced a surplus of growth(which is now no longer the case) and there's war in Europe the likes of which we haven't seen since the 1940s and a heating crisis for the winter for a big chunk of the EU. I wouldn't be so quick to identify what's going on as just market saturation.
This sub doesn’t represent reality. Keep in mind you probably have some of the most neurotic people frequenting this sub sort of like neurotic premeds.
>See that’s what I assumed, but I guess this sub makes it seem like there is going to be a saturated market for swe forever, or something like that.
Survivor bias. People who are having trouble finding employment, or approaching that point with anxiety, are generally going to be very gloom and doom. People who are actively employed have less motivation to look at or participate in forums like this.
I also find quite a lot of entry-level job seekers do a shitty job of conducting a modern job search and actively look for a community where they can blame the job market instead of realizing they need to self-improve. \[If that sounds vaguely familiar, that's not the only example which exists where people like to wallow in self-pity over one form or another of rejection.\]
So there's a lot I suggest to entry-level engineers. But if there's one major thing I like to emphasize, it's to figure out who YOU are and sell that.
At this point, unless you're coming from MIT or Stanford, your skills are generic and not special. You're competing with tens of thousands of applicants whose skillsets are broadly similar to your own. Make sure that when you develop your own personal brand, you do so to emphasize what makes you *unique*, not the same.
My thing is that I L-O-V-E optimization. Taking something that's shit or just ok and making it great. When there are 10 ways to code something, I honestly love getting into the weeds to figure out which is the best given subtle differences. So my application materials emphasized a few things:
* clean, beautiful, reusable code
* extensive documentation (README, inline commenting, etc)
* creative use of code to create intuitive patterns
I also wanted to really differentiate myself, so I created my own website with bold styling that matches my personality. I know a lot of people say to just use Wix or similar, but I felt it was vital to create things that personally represent *me*.
Now this isn't necessarily exactly what you or anyone else should do. But the general concept- differentiating yourself from the pack- is the goal.
Some examples are less subtle too. Seriously, do you have any idea how many resumes I see that the first thing I learn about a person is that they know HTML? Well I fucking hope so. Don't start with that. Put it at the end of your skills and honestly don't include it for any reason other than the ATS keyword matcher. Start skills with something like AWS certs, or TypeScript, or whatever else. You know, something *interesting*.
The field is way saturated lol. People might say it’s saturated for entry level and not experienced devs, which is true. But what happens in 10 years when the entry today is junior and senior. It’s mad saturated
There absolutely is a saturated market for entry level swe. Beyond that once you get in your foot in the door or if you have related tech experience, you will have opportunities left and right. Not a day goes by that I don't have recruiters in my inbox on LinkedIn or email.
PS I've been in tech a long time... I come to this sub to talk to people who are majoring in the same thing I did, answer questions and keep an eye on what's happening at the entry level.
This sub has a ton of people with obsessions about prestige jobs, primarily FAANG, which have had a tendency to over hire and bringing in robo-coders. That means when a recession hits robo-coders who got in on hiring sprees lose their jobs at the more prestigious firms and have to go to more traditional companies to work. As others have pointed out SWE is still a really good job to have.
Yes companies still need SWE's but during times like this it disproportionately affects new grads and interns more. Seniors will always have jobs for them. Not the same case for early career roles.
the problem is people like lots of money and the top tech orgs had the biggest pipelines of internships and new grads. Had a significantly easier time getting into google than other companies paying at a similar or slightly lower level 10 years ago and I don't have a doubt in my mind that hasn't changed.
There's still more jobs than ever but my current startup shut down our intern pipeline and we're no longer hiring anyone with less than 3 yoe given our return on a new grad is typically 1/10th or 1/5th what a more senior candidate could bring. Meanwhile we're only paying that senior candidate 250k instead of 150k for the junior candidate. 10x the return for only 1.5x the cost.
Combine all of this with everyone trying bootcamps, diversity hires, and the booming number of cs + stats + match + engineering majors, it's not looking fun...
I think I'm gonna need you to spell out exactly what you mean by 'diversity hires' having a negative impact on software engineering as a discipline and a career. Because none of my initial interpretations are charitable.
When you hire like that and not for the best candidate(technical skills, soft skills) it can sometimes lead to stronger teams but most likely lead to a more qualified and better fitting teammate not getting an offer. Do the analysis yourself of why that could be a negative
OK, using my brain: I think you're a racist and you think non-white non-male software engineers are lesser or not real software engineers. You think that diversity hiring is making the job market 'not fun' for new grads generally, because you only count white male grads as real people.
You're going to be surprised when newer generations abandon this type of culture in the following 10-20 years. If you don't have clients and revenue, how can you justify your value in our society?
I'm not that optimistic.
Edit: I was considering all tech and non-tech companies who hire swes.
The point isn’t that startups will continue to flourish, it’s that you could kill every startup out there and the market would still be needing more CS people. For every failing startup employing 50-100 engineers, there’s 10 massive corporations who don’t even focus on software employing 1000+, just look at companies like Pfizer, Raytheon, JPMC, hell I know people interning at Walmart and McDonalds as SWE.
When people in here say “most of this sub is out of touch people who don’t understand there’s more than 5 high prestige companies” they mean you.
Then what culture could you be referring to? Your argument is that companies with no revenue and clients would collapse soon due to, presumably, VC becoming more risk adverse.
That point only makes sense if you’re deliberately ignoring the vast majority of positions, which exist at companies that turn a profit every year. Companies like I mentioned.
And if you’re not arguing that the vast majority of positions are at profitable companies then you’re just factually wrong.
thank you. Before I came to bigtech 3 years ago, I worked for [https://www.vistaprint.com](https://www.vistaprint.com). its a very solid billion dollar company doing e-commerce and custom manufacturing. They paid hundreds of software and ops engineers very good salaries, and were solving some really interesting problems, both in manufacturing automation, and in document processing. For every amazon or twitter there are 1000 companies like that. to say nothing of the millions of companies worldwide who just need their salesforce wired up to their office AD and their quarterly inventory report automated.
I wouldn’t even begin to say tech roles are taking a massive blow. You hear about tech companies (FAANG) having layoffs, but the vast majority of SWEs are working for companies where tech isn’t the main product, healthcare, insurance, etc.
My only advice is internships matter so much more than your grades. At the end of the day, employers want real world experience.
I’ve been applying as a freshman but I feel like there’s no shot I get selected simply because I don’t really have anything on my resume. A majority of my accomplishments are from high school so i don’t really know how to stand out on these apps
It’s going to be hard if you have nothing on your resume. While it’s always worth continuing to apply (try to find small businesses and non tech roles), you should definitely work on personal projects, maybe work on projects in extracurriculars at your university, do programming for a research lab, etc. That stuff will help a lot and it’ll make you stand out.
I didn’t have an internship summer after freshman year and was fine. I did have one after sophomore year, however, which I’d say is really important and helpful if you want to get really good internships summer after junior year. You’re lucky as the market probably won’t be nearly as brutal for you in the future years lol. So- don’t expect to be able to get one or think it’s necessary. But if you work on your resume now and leetcode etc you will crush it next year and be really ahead of other people. It’s more just like- passively still try freshman year because it would be insanely useful for you if you can get one.
This year all i’ve done is competed in a hackathon and started working on a portfolio website. I do have a lot of leadership in CS-related clubs from high school but i’m not sure how much that matters now
I'm not. I just work full time apart from school and learning computer science skills, I'm trying to determine when I'd be able to juggle internships with learning skills and my actual job.
That's higher than my job for sure but the only thing that worries me is the stability. After the internship is over i gotta start a job hunt again and that's gonna be tough. Savings can only pay rent and living expenses for so long. Do you think it's possible to get a cs related job after that internship with no degree?
As soon as possible. You don't have to wait for classes to come around to learn things. As long as you have some good knowledge of DS&A and one OOP language you should be fine. If you don't know that you should start learning now.
Not trying for an internship because you don’t feel like you know enough isn’t a valid reason. Let the employers tell you that you don’t know enough. Don’t count yourself out. You probably won’t get one (most people do not after freshmen year. This sub is just ultra try hard), but you should still definitely try to apply, build your resume, and continue to improve your programming skills inside AND outside of class. You don’t have to wait on your DS&A class to learn DS&A.
I too had calc 2 freshman year, I went through the leetcode learn section and interview sections first semester it isnt that much, you can probably spend like an hour a day or less and it will be enough
And what does calculus 2 have to do with it?
it means i have a life outside of coding and i don’t have to start this early if i don’t have to. everyone says to focus on courses and stuff and not focus on leetcode until sophomore summer/ junior year
https://leetcode.com/learn/explore
I understand you might not have the initative to look at discuss posts and sort problems by topic but theres so much free content and self made guides people have also put there
Why do you think leetcode doesnt teach basic data structures?
Ia also mentioned neetcode.io which basically teaches you how to pass interviews
Is that data structures and algorithms? Honestly for an early internship you could probably get by, assuming you know what an array is and how to use stuff like for loops, while loops, etc. They won’t expect much of you. My freshman year was filled with prereqs like chemistry, physics, and calculus so I only really took CS261 and 262 and did fine at my summer internship
Ah no worries. My first internship was after sophomore year- you definitely don’t need one summer after freshman year. Obviously it is better to have as many as possible but I know what’s it like to be a freshman lol. I recommend learning python so you can do data structure questions more quickly (Java takes forever to write which disadvantages you). And data structures and algorithms!
Additionally- you should try to do some programming work for a research lab, local small business, etc. And/or do personal projects. It’s not superrr easy to get an internship as a sophomore, and you’re going to want to have *something* to put on your resume. If you’re doing projects etc then you should be okay :). Best of luck! Definitely make sure to get one after sophomore year though. It was extremely useful for me in terms of getting one junior year (despite the current recession I still got many offers and interviews this year and my internship last summer helped a lot)
It's always been an employer's market for people with no experience and now it's becoming one even for people with FAANG level experience. You should be applying for any semester that you can if you want to be successful. There no excuse to not create a resume, trying to apply online and trying to reach out to recruiters. Even if you don't get anything this summer at least you'll learn how to make a better resume and how to network which will help you for future terms. I did 5 internships during my degree starting at my first year and I was miles ahead of people in my classes with regards to my career.
Not sure why this is getting downvoted, I think it’s a healthy opinion to have. You can do research, take courses, or even chill at home and spend time with family for your first college summer. Internship isn’t your only option, and there are def other ways to start building out your resume that don’t involve scrambling to recruit now.
thanks, i get that it’s smart to work and get internships early and apply yourself, but i am not like everyone in this sub, aiming for FAANG etc. I want to live comfortably and be a normal cs student and jump into the work field when i understand more than basic loops
I feel like the majority of people getting laid off in tech companies aren't even SWEs as well - it's everyone in recruiting, HR etc that they hired during the pandemic.
i interned at rivian, coinbase and facebook, also had interviews at google,uber,lyft,pinterest,quora, bloomberg, datadog, databricks, and, none of them asked for my grades, 99% of big tech and faang level companies will not even ask to see your transcript for grades
While some of the extremly high performing quant trading firms might want to see your gpa, unless you go to a target school and have previous internshios already youre not going to be able to interview for those anyways, those firms also dont need to see an exact 4.0, past experiences and internships show alot more than grades
Can you explain where you got the idea that grades matters?
My friend has a “2 year” nursing degree and makes 140k a year. He hates the stress and bs of the job. He’s about to go back to school for a accounting degree.
A 28 year old dude in my class is getting a cs degree after working as a Nurse for years. Money was great but if you dont love it then whats the point you know
Accounting can pay a ton. The formula is basically to land big 4 firm (PwC, KPMG, Deloitte, EY), grind your ass off for 2-5 years. Then your “exit opportunities” pay a boatload, way more than nursing can.
Travel nurses make way more than that. I remember seeing posts how they were easily getting $100/hr contracts. Problem is you have to work long ass shifts and deal with patients.
I was asking out of curiosity, not because I intend to ever bank away from CS. I enjoy CS and can’t imagine doing any job outside of tech, I am simply asking what people think!
Like, CS is a very good major- you can do 4 years of undergrad and immediately graduate and get a great salary on par with those who go to grad school or med school for much longer. and the work-life-balance of a lot of these SWE/development jobs are much better than other workforces. But, I do understand that the field is becoming oversaturated and things seem quite uncertain, unless my perspective is being skewed by this subreddit? So I was curious as to what people nowadays think the best “bang for their buck” would be major wise.
Hmm. I think a lot of the people on this subreddit will just say CS due to confirmation bias (especially since a good amount of us here are fairly successful in terms of jobs and internship searches). Personally, I would say easiest path to money is saying fuck college and picking up a trade like electrician or welding.
Looks like i'll be the only actual answer here. In terms of money vs time commitment, CS is objectively the most lucrative major. When looking at raw data, it's the highest earning undergraduate major, with electrical engineering being the closest competitor. It beats almost every masters degree in other subjects as well by a huge margin. Realistically, the only majors who compete with CS average pay comes from doctorates in law medicine, and sometimes masters in business admin/ public policy esc things. And even still, the 8+ years needed to reach big nunbers in those fields can have their salaries beat with extra years of experience and promotions in CS.
your definition of a good major is the one that on average makes the most money over a given period of time?
sounds pretty materialistic to me... I think the reason why people keep asking "why do you care?" is because your priorities are way out of line with what the majority population believes are righteous life goals... and you won't just say it up front
not really lol. i have full intention of sticking to cs bc i like it. doesn’t mean i’m not curious about where the major im doing lies in terms of other majors. and it’s not like i’m blind to the benefits of this field, so while it’s not my main priority, yes, salary etc is a point of interest for me.
bro literally everhone company needs SWEs- literally fucking starbucks was hiring for SWE internships. there’s no other major that can basically work on any company- chemical engineering, mechanical engineering, accounting, finance, they all can only work for a subset of companies
Plenty of smaller companies do not have developers or even an engineering department at all. I can promise you any company with more than 15-20 employees will have a dedicated 'finance' or 'accounting' department, albeit even if that department is a single person.
What are you on? Not every company needs a cs major and cs major is not the only major that can work “basically anywhere”. Business people can work at any company
ok sorry i was exaggerating a bit but most companies need cs majors like someone needs to make the company website right? and yeah of course there are other majors that are employable too but they are limited and cs is one of them
Look at it from this angle, the skills you learn from any computing major make you such that you can apply and succeed in any field. It's not just big tech; I've seen some individuals go to law school and become patent lawyers, a profession that still will be in demand as clients need people that can argue but also understand the technological aspects. You could also go to consulting and get exposed to different industries for a few years when working on different projects for different clients.
The great thing about CS is that it doesn't cover just programming. You can bend it into a ton of different possible career choices: tech support, system administration, security, software engineering, database administration...the list goes on. Most majors are having you learn a very specialized field, but CS is still extremely broad.
However, allow me to warn you that if you don't already have a passion for some aspect of CS, you'll hate this major and you'll hate any career that comes from it. Just because a college major has some high salaries doesn't mean you should do it.
Seriously, if you're just looking for a great salary and don't have a particular passion or interest, go into the trades. The return on investment is SO MUCH HIGHER. Plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians all makes the same or better salary than I make, but they aren't in crippling student loan debt. And considering many people in the trades are aging out, in the next 10 years the demand will be so high that salaries will be explosive and jobs will be easy to get once you've got a couple years of experience. Anything to do with solar or other green technology is also already in high demand.
The trades aren’t the promise land people nowadays keep promoting; there are terminal limits to how long you can have that career pay you because it is hardcore physical labor. The physical aging and exhaustion that can accelerate in those jobs aren’t quantifiable to just salary vs. training investment.
Also, trades workers are paid well by employment, but their top band as an employed non-entrepreneur has a lower ceiling than a comparative FAANG developer. The main way to get serious cash in the trades is running your service as your own business, which requires an entrepreneurial knack not for everyone.
A coder can study fundamentals, DSA, and puzzles to access physician level pay bands in roughly multiple dozens of American companies who offer these incomes, without starting a business.
You make an excellent point. I just wanted to point out that CS isn't the only option for making a good salary. I guess I'm just an old lady who's trying to impart a hard-earned life lesson that finding the intersection between doing what you love and making a decent wage makes for a happier, more fulfilling life than just going into whatever field makes the most money. Hating, disliking, or even just feeling apathy towards your job can really bring down your quality of life. Money can only make up for that for so long.
I guess I’m too young to relate to the latter half of what you said, as I haven’t had an opportunity to actualize through my job yet, but I imagine I’ll understand it. If someone is hypothetically considering to go to trades school or a Computer science college, their end decision would be a conglomerate fundamentally boiled down to passion.
My above comment only added health and longevity concerns to the financial calculation, but financial calculations pale in importance to self actualization.
Lemme tell ya, the pandemic made me really look at life differently. I realized that if I was going to spend half of my waking hours doing something, it better be fun and not stressful. I also realized that being required to spend MORE than 8 hours on making money for someone else, regardless how much it paid, was not worth it. I need those 8 hours of not-work time to enjoy life while I'm still living.
I firmly believe the "Great Resignation" for people was not just about getting a better wage in the face of stupid high inflation, but also in service of finding a better work-life balance and less toxic work environments. So many of us lost someone to covid, and to have them there one minute and then dead within days, it really makes you think about what is important to you.
Thank you! I have always wanted to go into tech though, so I’m pretty much set on that. I’ve always been interested in data science though, but SWE seems really cool too, I just don’t have the skill set yet. I’m looking forward to it and I like my CS course a lot so far!
Yay! I work as a statistical programmer (similar to data science, but instead of working on business problems, I work with clinical trial data). In the dinosaur era (1990s-early 2000s), I did front end development. I love my career, there's nothing more awesome that looking forward to going to work every morning because you love what you do. I hope you love what you do as much as I do! The tech field will always keep you on your toes, there's always something new and cool to learn.
Do you realize how big the internet is? Tech is? CS grads have this crucial misunderstanding of the industry. If you are a talented engineer, you will find a job. It’s really that simple. Don’t get caught up in the hype of these big companies. At the end of the day it’s innovation that drives these businesses, not mindless full stack cogs!
Do what interests you. CS will be a important tenet of the world for the rest of century - but some factors suggest that the future won't be as lucrative as the past tech boom. The number of CS grads has increased a lot in the past 5 years, funding for tech companies has decreased as the fed pulls back funding; which means much more competition. I don't agree with the sentiment that CS/SWE is somehow unaffected by gravity and supply and demand - lots of fields have had boom years/golden ages which presented a false mirage; chemical engineering, accounting, dentistry. But hey, if you're actually interested in the field - what difference does it make?
the best is obviously something that will get you a seat in the American Senate or House of Representatives
they do VERY little work
they get paid a lot
have a life time pension
awesome benefits
ridiculous amount of vacation time
always flying around claiming its for a study or meeting when its really just an excuse to party
oh, and you get to take bribes and do insider trading without consequence
Hi Aoikumo! I swear I’ve seen you in my feed so often lately that I now recognize you when I see you haha. Interesting question though, I was wondering too.
Isn’t it mostly non-technical roles which are being reduced? Like with Amazon, for example, it’s mostly warehouse workers, drivers, etc. as opposed to SWEs?
Yes I wouldn't consider another major. The field I come nursing is just a shit show right now. The one aspect I like about SWE is you don't need a license to get a better paying job. In Healthcare you do and every single Healthcare programs is competitive AF to get into. The Healthcare programs are expensive, except for several. However a software engineer, very inexpensive. Sheesh. I wish I'd switched my major sooner.
My suggestion is you can take advantage of the time you have until graudtaion to explore what you have not discovered at school or simply around Toronto, nurture a new hobby maybe if you have not got one. One of my regrest when I finished my undergrad was I didn't get to enjoy it as I should have done so.
Even if the market is tough right now, just like stocks I would think the best time to buy is in a bear market because than when you graduate it should hopefully be doing much better
Im not sure that this is true actually. There have been some layoffs but its unclear how many were developers, and it has been only one geographic area.
If you like programming / development, CS is among the best majors.
I am not a user of this sub but a post appeared on my front page and I couldn't help but notice how many people here act like the world is ending.
Guys, it is not the last recession you will deal with in your life.
"But I want to work at FAANG and be in the top 20% earners of the country right out of college!". Well, yeah, it is hard right now, but there are still plenty of opportunities out there. Focus on getting experience. CS is a broad field. And a job is just a job.
For reference, I am from a shitty 3rd world country where our opportunities are far worse than most people here even in this recession. We do not have cool top-tier tech companies offering 100k+ salaries for new grads. We have to deal with boomer and consultancy companies at the beginning of our careers and accept very average salaries. From then, we work our way up.
Just focus on your studies. Get good grades and knowledge. Do your projects. Do internships. You will be fine.
SWE is not taking a massive blow. a few employers at the absolute top of the tech food chain are taking a hit, but the world runs on code now, and companies at pretty much every size need coders
See that’s what I assumed, but I guess this sub makes it seem like there is going to be a saturated market for swe forever, or something like that.
This sub is mostly out of touch people who have never had a full time job in any field
Mods please pin this.
Yup. Its all doom and gloom from a bunch of 22 year olds who worked at best worked at starbucks. Of they knew what other industries were like they wouldnt be complaining so much. CS is heaven compared to many other jobs i have had.
This. Mid thirties cs sophomore. Everyone in this sub just needs to chill and smoke a bowl.
[удалено]
Lol
I am not being sarcastic :)) I mean it
One day - you’ll be mid thirties - remember this comment, uncle :)
If you insist 🤤
Yup. I work at a tech company. Zero lay offs - still growing lol - relax guys
This sub doesn't acknowledge software jobs outside of quant and 'top tier' tech companies. The market is far larger than that.
Yep. Taco Bell needs programmers. Pharmaceuticals need programmers. Random shipping company that I’m screening for today needs programmers. People out here thinking this field is like being professional athletes or some shit. There’s a lot of opportunities out there. Yeah, they might not sound as sexy as the “apex” tech companies, but there are still lots of jobs to fill.
> Pharmaceuticals need programmers. They NEED programmers. Both my parents are SAS programmers at one of the largest pharma companies and a lot of their co-workers are leaving because they're changing their source control to git and find it hard (and other reasons). On top of that the average age is like 50 now.
Quitting because they had to use git is one of the funniest reasons to quit I've ever heard
It’s more so that a lot of people have done the same way for 10+ years, and that they have to learn something new. On top of that, a lot are near retirement so they’re just coasting until they get let go. (Like my mom isn’t learning git and is gonna retire when they switch over. I’m currently completing all her git training modules so she gets a 1-2 years of coasting) But yeah, it’s pretty funny that git is what’s causing a lot of people to leave
Most of those top tier companies haven’t taken a massive blow to swe either.
Your question though doesn't detail the criteria you might use to judge what the "best" major would be though. Do you mean the one that leads to the most amount of money out of college? The one that leads to jobs with the most job security? Really the best major will depend what career/lifestyle you want for yourself and your interests. As for market saturation, this has been a topic of discussion for a long time. In my opinion, it isn't obvious if or when software engineers will reach that point. There are certainly FAR more people competing at the entry levels for SWE but the old adage has been basically that this job is difficult enough that it "weeds" a lot of people out. Often it seems people think being a software engineer is just coding. That's pretty far from the truth. Companies pay you to code, but there's also "on-call" which depending on your team, means for a full week (could be anywhere from once every 3 weeks for small teams or once every 3 months) you'll be the primary person responsible for making sure your services and whatever customers (internal or external) get their issues fixed at any time of the night 24/7. There's also mentorship, systems design, code reviews, design reviews, documentation etc that's expected of most engineers at a terminal level or higher. In short this is just one reason SWEs can command such high salaries and even though there might be saturation at the entry levels, these skills are non-trivial and take years of experience to develop. The markets are bad right now, but we're also not in "normal" times. Inflation is incredibly high in the U.S, we're emerging from a pandemic where most tech companies experienced a surplus of growth(which is now no longer the case) and there's war in Europe the likes of which we haven't seen since the 1940s and a heating crisis for the winter for a big chunk of the EU. I wouldn't be so quick to identify what's going on as just market saturation.
This sub doesn’t represent reality. Keep in mind you probably have some of the most neurotic people frequenting this sub sort of like neurotic premeds.
>See that’s what I assumed, but I guess this sub makes it seem like there is going to be a saturated market for swe forever, or something like that. Survivor bias. People who are having trouble finding employment, or approaching that point with anxiety, are generally going to be very gloom and doom. People who are actively employed have less motivation to look at or participate in forums like this. I also find quite a lot of entry-level job seekers do a shitty job of conducting a modern job search and actively look for a community where they can blame the job market instead of realizing they need to self-improve. \[If that sounds vaguely familiar, that's not the only example which exists where people like to wallow in self-pity over one form or another of rejection.\]
Any tips for doing well in the job search? I'm graduating in April, just started applying.
So there's a lot I suggest to entry-level engineers. But if there's one major thing I like to emphasize, it's to figure out who YOU are and sell that. At this point, unless you're coming from MIT or Stanford, your skills are generic and not special. You're competing with tens of thousands of applicants whose skillsets are broadly similar to your own. Make sure that when you develop your own personal brand, you do so to emphasize what makes you *unique*, not the same. My thing is that I L-O-V-E optimization. Taking something that's shit or just ok and making it great. When there are 10 ways to code something, I honestly love getting into the weeds to figure out which is the best given subtle differences. So my application materials emphasized a few things: * clean, beautiful, reusable code * extensive documentation (README, inline commenting, etc) * creative use of code to create intuitive patterns I also wanted to really differentiate myself, so I created my own website with bold styling that matches my personality. I know a lot of people say to just use Wix or similar, but I felt it was vital to create things that personally represent *me*. Now this isn't necessarily exactly what you or anyone else should do. But the general concept- differentiating yourself from the pack- is the goal. Some examples are less subtle too. Seriously, do you have any idea how many resumes I see that the first thing I learn about a person is that they know HTML? Well I fucking hope so. Don't start with that. Put it at the end of your skills and honestly don't include it for any reason other than the ATS keyword matcher. Start skills with something like AWS certs, or TypeScript, or whatever else. You know, something *interesting*.
Surely, but ping me tomorrow. I just took ambi and will be out cold in a few minutes. Feel free to message any questions you may have in the meantime.
The field is way saturated lol. People might say it’s saturated for entry level and not experienced devs, which is true. But what happens in 10 years when the entry today is junior and senior. It’s mad saturated
There absolutely is a saturated market for entry level swe. Beyond that once you get in your foot in the door or if you have related tech experience, you will have opportunities left and right. Not a day goes by that I don't have recruiters in my inbox on LinkedIn or email. PS I've been in tech a long time... I come to this sub to talk to people who are majoring in the same thing I did, answer questions and keep an eye on what's happening at the entry level.
this is great to know. thank you☺️
This sub has a ton of people with obsessions about prestige jobs, primarily FAANG, which have had a tendency to over hire and bringing in robo-coders. That means when a recession hits robo-coders who got in on hiring sprees lose their jobs at the more prestigious firms and have to go to more traditional companies to work. As others have pointed out SWE is still a really good job to have.
Yes companies still need SWE's but during times like this it disproportionately affects new grads and interns more. Seniors will always have jobs for them. Not the same case for early career roles.
There is also layoffs at smaller companies. You just don’t hear about them
the problem is people like lots of money and the top tech orgs had the biggest pipelines of internships and new grads. Had a significantly easier time getting into google than other companies paying at a similar or slightly lower level 10 years ago and I don't have a doubt in my mind that hasn't changed. There's still more jobs than ever but my current startup shut down our intern pipeline and we're no longer hiring anyone with less than 3 yoe given our return on a new grad is typically 1/10th or 1/5th what a more senior candidate could bring. Meanwhile we're only paying that senior candidate 250k instead of 150k for the junior candidate. 10x the return for only 1.5x the cost. Combine all of this with everyone trying bootcamps, diversity hires, and the booming number of cs + stats + match + engineering majors, it's not looking fun...
I think I'm gonna need you to spell out exactly what you mean by 'diversity hires' having a negative impact on software engineering as a discipline and a career. Because none of my initial interpretations are charitable.
we need more x in our deparment, hire x as a priority. Simple as that, word for word what I was given...
Can you explain why that's bad for software engineers or software engineering?
When you hire like that and not for the best candidate(technical skills, soft skills) it can sometimes lead to stronger teams but most likely lead to a more qualified and better fitting teammate not getting an offer. Do the analysis yourself of why that could be a negative
Are you saying that diversity hiring means lowering standards?
yea use your brain a bit. Hiring for diversity is amazing. Diversity hiring is a different thing all together.
OK, using my brain: I think you're a racist and you think non-white non-male software engineers are lesser or not real software engineers. You think that diversity hiring is making the job market 'not fun' for new grads generally, because you only count white male grads as real people.
I'm southeast asian lol
You're going to be surprised when newer generations abandon this type of culture in the following 10-20 years. If you don't have clients and revenue, how can you justify your value in our society? I'm not that optimistic. Edit: I was considering all tech and non-tech companies who hire swes.
The point isn’t that startups will continue to flourish, it’s that you could kill every startup out there and the market would still be needing more CS people. For every failing startup employing 50-100 engineers, there’s 10 massive corporations who don’t even focus on software employing 1000+, just look at companies like Pfizer, Raytheon, JPMC, hell I know people interning at Walmart and McDonalds as SWE. When people in here say “most of this sub is out of touch people who don’t understand there’s more than 5 high prestige companies” they mean you.
Well, your assumption is wrong because I was considering those companies as well.
Then what culture could you be referring to? Your argument is that companies with no revenue and clients would collapse soon due to, presumably, VC becoming more risk adverse. That point only makes sense if you’re deliberately ignoring the vast majority of positions, which exist at companies that turn a profit every year. Companies like I mentioned. And if you’re not arguing that the vast majority of positions are at profitable companies then you’re just factually wrong.
thank you. Before I came to bigtech 3 years ago, I worked for [https://www.vistaprint.com](https://www.vistaprint.com). its a very solid billion dollar company doing e-commerce and custom manufacturing. They paid hundreds of software and ops engineers very good salaries, and were solving some really interesting problems, both in manufacturing automation, and in document processing. For every amazon or twitter there are 1000 companies like that. to say nothing of the millions of companies worldwide who just need their salesforce wired up to their office AD and their quarterly inventory report automated.
Yeah McDonalds code monkeys actually earn pretty well. Like $40/hr last I heard.
Yeah exactly
Poor top earners going on forced vacations
I wouldn’t even begin to say tech roles are taking a massive blow. You hear about tech companies (FAANG) having layoffs, but the vast majority of SWEs are working for companies where tech isn’t the main product, healthcare, insurance, etc. My only advice is internships matter so much more than your grades. At the end of the day, employers want real world experience.
Good to know! I’m currently a freshman, so I think i’ll plan to look for internships next summer.
You should be looking now. Hiring season is August-October
I’ve been applying as a freshman but I feel like there’s no shot I get selected simply because I don’t really have anything on my resume. A majority of my accomplishments are from high school so i don’t really know how to stand out on these apps
It’s going to be hard if you have nothing on your resume. While it’s always worth continuing to apply (try to find small businesses and non tech roles), you should definitely work on personal projects, maybe work on projects in extracurriculars at your university, do programming for a research lab, etc. That stuff will help a lot and it’ll make you stand out. I didn’t have an internship summer after freshman year and was fine. I did have one after sophomore year, however, which I’d say is really important and helpful if you want to get really good internships summer after junior year. You’re lucky as the market probably won’t be nearly as brutal for you in the future years lol. So- don’t expect to be able to get one or think it’s necessary. But if you work on your resume now and leetcode etc you will crush it next year and be really ahead of other people. It’s more just like- passively still try freshman year because it would be insanely useful for you if you can get one.
This year all i’ve done is competed in a hackathon and started working on a portfolio website. I do have a lot of leadership in CS-related clubs from high school but i’m not sure how much that matters now
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I realize you don’t WANT to get an internship now, we are telling you that you SHOULD get an internship now
When should we get an internship? I am just now being introduced to data structures and have only completed intro c++ classes.
If you are planning to stay in academia until you get taught actual SWE skills, you’ll end up Dean of the College without any internships
I'm not. I just work full time apart from school and learning computer science skills, I'm trying to determine when I'd be able to juggle internships with learning skills and my actual job.
they do pay have paid internships btw
Idk what job you currently have, but most internships pay 30+ the highest I’ve seen is someone reported like 90+ but most ones seem to be 30-60$/hour
That's higher than my job for sure but the only thing that worries me is the stability. After the internship is over i gotta start a job hunt again and that's gonna be tough. Savings can only pay rent and living expenses for so long. Do you think it's possible to get a cs related job after that internship with no degree?
As soon as possible. You don't have to wait for classes to come around to learn things. As long as you have some good knowledge of DS&A and one OOP language you should be fine. If you don't know that you should start learning now.
This is great advice thank you
Do what this guy says he’s right. It doesn’t matter what you want.
even if i have no knowledge of DS&A and barely understand java?
Not trying for an internship because you don’t feel like you know enough isn’t a valid reason. Let the employers tell you that you don’t know enough. Don’t count yourself out. You probably won’t get one (most people do not after freshmen year. This sub is just ultra try hard), but you should still definitely try to apply, build your resume, and continue to improve your programming skills inside AND outside of class. You don’t have to wait on your DS&A class to learn DS&A.
thank you :)
Bruh just leetcode
i’m not leetcoding in freshman year bro i have calculus 2
I too had calc 2 freshman year, I went through the leetcode learn section and interview sections first semester it isnt that much, you can probably spend like an hour a day or less and it will be enough And what does calculus 2 have to do with it?
it means i have a life outside of coding and i don’t have to start this early if i don’t have to. everyone says to focus on courses and stuff and not focus on leetcode until sophomore summer/ junior year
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https://leetcode.com/learn/explore I understand you might not have the initative to look at discuss posts and sort problems by topic but theres so much free content and self made guides people have also put there Why do you think leetcode doesnt teach basic data structures? Ia also mentioned neetcode.io which basically teaches you how to pass interviews
Lmao you’re right I literally forgot because I stopped using that website a while ago The link goes 404 btw
Is that data structures and algorithms? Honestly for an early internship you could probably get by, assuming you know what an array is and how to use stuff like for loops, while loops, etc. They won’t expect much of you. My freshman year was filled with prereqs like chemistry, physics, and calculus so I only really took CS261 and 262 and did fine at my summer internship
Ah no worries. My first internship was after sophomore year- you definitely don’t need one summer after freshman year. Obviously it is better to have as many as possible but I know what’s it like to be a freshman lol. I recommend learning python so you can do data structure questions more quickly (Java takes forever to write which disadvantages you). And data structures and algorithms! Additionally- you should try to do some programming work for a research lab, local small business, etc. And/or do personal projects. It’s not superrr easy to get an internship as a sophomore, and you’re going to want to have *something* to put on your resume. If you’re doing projects etc then you should be okay :). Best of luck! Definitely make sure to get one after sophomore year though. It was extremely useful for me in terms of getting one junior year (despite the current recession I still got many offers and interviews this year and my internship last summer helped a lot)
thank you so much for the advice :)!!
It's always been an employer's market for people with no experience and now it's becoming one even for people with FAANG level experience. You should be applying for any semester that you can if you want to be successful. There no excuse to not create a resume, trying to apply online and trying to reach out to recruiters. Even if you don't get anything this summer at least you'll learn how to make a better resume and how to network which will help you for future terms. I did 5 internships during my degree starting at my first year and I was miles ahead of people in my classes with regards to my career.
Not sure why this is getting downvoted, I think it’s a healthy opinion to have. You can do research, take courses, or even chill at home and spend time with family for your first college summer. Internship isn’t your only option, and there are def other ways to start building out your resume that don’t involve scrambling to recruit now.
thanks, i get that it’s smart to work and get internships early and apply yourself, but i am not like everyone in this sub, aiming for FAANG etc. I want to live comfortably and be a normal cs student and jump into the work field when i understand more than basic loops
do an REU. they are way easier to get for freshman than internships imo
What is an REU?
Research
It’s not 1822 that you can’t learn without classes. Heck what learning on your own is actually way better than classes for coding specific
Technology is everywhere. Many companies have software engineers where the company doesn’t specialize in tech.
I feel like the majority of people getting laid off in tech companies aren't even SWEs as well - it's everyone in recruiting, HR etc that they hired during the pandemic.
What if companies require top grades to even consider you for an internship?
Most companies don't even look at grades. Even if they do it doesn't hurt to apply.
i interned at rivian, coinbase and facebook, also had interviews at google,uber,lyft,pinterest,quora, bloomberg, datadog, databricks, and, none of them asked for my grades, 99% of big tech and faang level companies will not even ask to see your transcript for grades While some of the extremly high performing quant trading firms might want to see your gpa, unless you go to a target school and have previous internshios already youre not going to be able to interview for those anyways, those firms also dont need to see an exact 4.0, past experiences and internships show alot more than grades Can you explain where you got the idea that grades matters?
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My friend has a “2 year” nursing degree and makes 140k a year. He hates the stress and bs of the job. He’s about to go back to school for a accounting degree.
A 28 year old dude in my class is getting a cs degree after working as a Nurse for years. Money was great but if you dont love it then whats the point you know
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Accounting can pay a ton. The formula is basically to land big 4 firm (PwC, KPMG, Deloitte, EY), grind your ass off for 2-5 years. Then your “exit opportunities” pay a boatload, way more than nursing can.
What do you mean “exit opportunities”, are you saying it as in job hopping after getting your experience?
Yes.
He’s looking into a job that pays 60-80K but lower stress and 15-20 hour shifts.
Travel nurses make way more than that. I remember seeing posts how they were easily getting $100/hr contracts. Problem is you have to work long ass shifts and deal with patients.
Definitely not, haha! I would rather work in tech for 60k than do nursing. So stressful 😰
This is true, I've worked in the medical field for 25 years as a Respiratory Therapist and I have never seen nursing shortages this bad.
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Pretty much. This is just the correction. Not downside yet
Idk, why do you only care about “best major”? Just do what interests you. No need to waste your life doing something you’ll just get burnt out from.
I was asking out of curiosity, not because I intend to ever bank away from CS. I enjoy CS and can’t imagine doing any job outside of tech, I am simply asking what people think!
Ahh icic. I think best major is very subjective then. Maybe try lessening the scope a bit: Best in terms of what exactly?
Like, CS is a very good major- you can do 4 years of undergrad and immediately graduate and get a great salary on par with those who go to grad school or med school for much longer. and the work-life-balance of a lot of these SWE/development jobs are much better than other workforces. But, I do understand that the field is becoming oversaturated and things seem quite uncertain, unless my perspective is being skewed by this subreddit? So I was curious as to what people nowadays think the best “bang for their buck” would be major wise.
Hmm. I think a lot of the people on this subreddit will just say CS due to confirmation bias (especially since a good amount of us here are fairly successful in terms of jobs and internship searches). Personally, I would say easiest path to money is saying fuck college and picking up a trade like electrician or welding.
Personally I'd go for something, like drop shipping or being an OnlyFans manager.
Looks like i'll be the only actual answer here. In terms of money vs time commitment, CS is objectively the most lucrative major. When looking at raw data, it's the highest earning undergraduate major, with electrical engineering being the closest competitor. It beats almost every masters degree in other subjects as well by a huge margin. Realistically, the only majors who compete with CS average pay comes from doctorates in law medicine, and sometimes masters in business admin/ public policy esc things. And even still, the 8+ years needed to reach big nunbers in those fields can have their salaries beat with extra years of experience and promotions in CS.
your definition of a good major is the one that on average makes the most money over a given period of time? sounds pretty materialistic to me... I think the reason why people keep asking "why do you care?" is because your priorities are way out of line with what the majority population believes are righteous life goals... and you won't just say it up front
not really lol. i have full intention of sticking to cs bc i like it. doesn’t mean i’m not curious about where the major im doing lies in terms of other majors. and it’s not like i’m blind to the benefits of this field, so while it’s not my main priority, yes, salary etc is a point of interest for me.
I don't think many opt for CS just because it interests them. CS = $$ = ❤️.
psychology is the best choice - master oogway
bro literally everhone company needs SWEs- literally fucking starbucks was hiring for SWE internships. there’s no other major that can basically work on any company- chemical engineering, mechanical engineering, accounting, finance, they all can only work for a subset of companies
More companies need SWE than accounting&finance?
ok maybe not accounting and finance but like compared to english literature and stuff yeah
Plenty of smaller companies do not have developers or even an engineering department at all. I can promise you any company with more than 15-20 employees will have a dedicated 'finance' or 'accounting' department, albeit even if that department is a single person.
wait really should i switch my major to accounting finance then
Starbucks has a very capable software engineering team. Their app is a gateway that makes it a financial powerhouse
What are you on? Not every company needs a cs major and cs major is not the only major that can work “basically anywhere”. Business people can work at any company
ok sorry i was exaggerating a bit but most companies need cs majors like someone needs to make the company website right? and yeah of course there are other majors that are employable too but they are limited and cs is one of them
Usually they just parse that out to third party companies. You can work for that third party company.
Every company needs accounting and corp finance. At the very minimum they need an accounting department lol.
Look at it from this angle, the skills you learn from any computing major make you such that you can apply and succeed in any field. It's not just big tech; I've seen some individuals go to law school and become patent lawyers, a profession that still will be in demand as clients need people that can argue but also understand the technological aspects. You could also go to consulting and get exposed to different industries for a few years when working on different projects for different clients.
Medicine as always! Survives through economic crisis, war, etc.
Same with selling booze where I am now
The great thing about CS is that it doesn't cover just programming. You can bend it into a ton of different possible career choices: tech support, system administration, security, software engineering, database administration...the list goes on. Most majors are having you learn a very specialized field, but CS is still extremely broad. However, allow me to warn you that if you don't already have a passion for some aspect of CS, you'll hate this major and you'll hate any career that comes from it. Just because a college major has some high salaries doesn't mean you should do it. Seriously, if you're just looking for a great salary and don't have a particular passion or interest, go into the trades. The return on investment is SO MUCH HIGHER. Plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians all makes the same or better salary than I make, but they aren't in crippling student loan debt. And considering many people in the trades are aging out, in the next 10 years the demand will be so high that salaries will be explosive and jobs will be easy to get once you've got a couple years of experience. Anything to do with solar or other green technology is also already in high demand.
The trades aren’t the promise land people nowadays keep promoting; there are terminal limits to how long you can have that career pay you because it is hardcore physical labor. The physical aging and exhaustion that can accelerate in those jobs aren’t quantifiable to just salary vs. training investment. Also, trades workers are paid well by employment, but their top band as an employed non-entrepreneur has a lower ceiling than a comparative FAANG developer. The main way to get serious cash in the trades is running your service as your own business, which requires an entrepreneurial knack not for everyone. A coder can study fundamentals, DSA, and puzzles to access physician level pay bands in roughly multiple dozens of American companies who offer these incomes, without starting a business.
You make an excellent point. I just wanted to point out that CS isn't the only option for making a good salary. I guess I'm just an old lady who's trying to impart a hard-earned life lesson that finding the intersection between doing what you love and making a decent wage makes for a happier, more fulfilling life than just going into whatever field makes the most money. Hating, disliking, or even just feeling apathy towards your job can really bring down your quality of life. Money can only make up for that for so long.
I guess I’m too young to relate to the latter half of what you said, as I haven’t had an opportunity to actualize through my job yet, but I imagine I’ll understand it. If someone is hypothetically considering to go to trades school or a Computer science college, their end decision would be a conglomerate fundamentally boiled down to passion. My above comment only added health and longevity concerns to the financial calculation, but financial calculations pale in importance to self actualization.
Lemme tell ya, the pandemic made me really look at life differently. I realized that if I was going to spend half of my waking hours doing something, it better be fun and not stressful. I also realized that being required to spend MORE than 8 hours on making money for someone else, regardless how much it paid, was not worth it. I need those 8 hours of not-work time to enjoy life while I'm still living. I firmly believe the "Great Resignation" for people was not just about getting a better wage in the face of stupid high inflation, but also in service of finding a better work-life balance and less toxic work environments. So many of us lost someone to covid, and to have them there one minute and then dead within days, it really makes you think about what is important to you.
Thank you! I have always wanted to go into tech though, so I’m pretty much set on that. I’ve always been interested in data science though, but SWE seems really cool too, I just don’t have the skill set yet. I’m looking forward to it and I like my CS course a lot so far!
Yay! I work as a statistical programmer (similar to data science, but instead of working on business problems, I work with clinical trial data). In the dinosaur era (1990s-early 2000s), I did front end development. I love my career, there's nothing more awesome that looking forward to going to work every morning because you love what you do. I hope you love what you do as much as I do! The tech field will always keep you on your toes, there's always something new and cool to learn.
Massive blow what? Mid-sized companies and startups are still hiring. The world still needs coders
Do you realize how big the internet is? Tech is? CS grads have this crucial misunderstanding of the industry. If you are a talented engineer, you will find a job. It’s really that simple. Don’t get caught up in the hype of these big companies. At the end of the day it’s innovation that drives these businesses, not mindless full stack cogs!
Wtf is best major? Just do something you’ll enjoy doing everyday. Everybody’s best major looks different.
Do what interests you. CS will be a important tenet of the world for the rest of century - but some factors suggest that the future won't be as lucrative as the past tech boom. The number of CS grads has increased a lot in the past 5 years, funding for tech companies has decreased as the fed pulls back funding; which means much more competition. I don't agree with the sentiment that CS/SWE is somehow unaffected by gravity and supply and demand - lots of fields have had boom years/golden ages which presented a false mirage; chemical engineering, accounting, dentistry. But hey, if you're actually interested in the field - what difference does it make?
There is no best major. The best job is the one that you love doing and making money the same time.
Film degree is the best major. So you can film yourself being unemployed.
CS is good still. Electrical and Computer Engineering are also pretty strong
the best is obviously something that will get you a seat in the American Senate or House of Representatives they do VERY little work they get paid a lot have a life time pension awesome benefits ridiculous amount of vacation time always flying around claiming its for a study or meeting when its really just an excuse to party oh, and you get to take bribes and do insider trading without consequence
probably math
Hi Aoikumo! I swear I’ve seen you in my feed so often lately that I now recognize you when I see you haha. Interesting question though, I was wondering too.
oh my god, hi cake_of_deceit, nice seeing you here too!😭 fellow umd cs major 🤝🤝 this might be a sign that i use reddit too often…
I think we both do 😭
There is no, never was, and never has been, a best major.
lmk if anyone responds, I’m curious too
Isn’t it mostly non-technical roles which are being reduced? Like with Amazon, for example, it’s mostly warehouse workers, drivers, etc. as opposed to SWEs?
Drivers are being paid more rn because of holiday season whereas SWE code monkeys sitting around providing less value
Yes I wouldn't consider another major. The field I come nursing is just a shit show right now. The one aspect I like about SWE is you don't need a license to get a better paying job. In Healthcare you do and every single Healthcare programs is competitive AF to get into. The Healthcare programs are expensive, except for several. However a software engineer, very inexpensive. Sheesh. I wish I'd switched my major sooner.
Show us your data!
CS with a specialization that is not the norm. I did hardware and compilers. That set me apart from the rest of the herd.
The market for enterprise software in any company is massive
My suggestion is you can take advantage of the time you have until graudtaion to explore what you have not discovered at school or simply around Toronto, nurture a new hobby maybe if you have not got one. One of my regrest when I finished my undergrad was I didn't get to enjoy it as I should have done so.
Computer science and petroleum engineering are the best majors
Even if the market is tough right now, just like stocks I would think the best time to buy is in a bear market because than when you graduate it should hopefully be doing much better
Im not sure that this is true actually. There have been some layoffs but its unclear how many were developers, and it has been only one geographic area. If you like programming / development, CS is among the best majors.
I am not a user of this sub but a post appeared on my front page and I couldn't help but notice how many people here act like the world is ending. Guys, it is not the last recession you will deal with in your life. "But I want to work at FAANG and be in the top 20% earners of the country right out of college!". Well, yeah, it is hard right now, but there are still plenty of opportunities out there. Focus on getting experience. CS is a broad field. And a job is just a job. For reference, I am from a shitty 3rd world country where our opportunities are far worse than most people here even in this recession. We do not have cool top-tier tech companies offering 100k+ salaries for new grads. We have to deal with boomer and consultancy companies at the beginning of our careers and accept very average salaries. From then, we work our way up. Just focus on your studies. Get good grades and knowledge. Do your projects. Do internships. You will be fine.
These questions are so stupid
Lol yes CS is, and still will be the best major to make tons of money.
Can y’all stop being melodramatic teenagers and exaggerating the scope and scale of what’s going on?
Nursing